Sorry if this has already been posted, but I couldn't find it anywhere in here via search.

This seems to me to be quite an exciting development from Denon and for me personally, I'm reconsidering emotiva as the choice for my next separate sound processor if I do have to buy in the next few months. I feel it's major drawback is only acting as a switcher for hdmi instead of utilizing sound through hdmi pcm.

The a7100 appears to utilize hdmi 1.1 for video switching and have Dolby Pro Logic IIx in addition to 8 XLR outputs. I could only find it listed at one online retailer. I know it's listed somewhere on Denon's professional site, but I didn't spend the time looking it up again. I sent an email to someone listed on Denon's professional site but no reply yet (and that was a good 2 weeks ago). I have no idea if this would be a UK release only, but that doesn't seem to make sense.

Anyways, wondering what other people thought of the DN-A7100.


http://www.lsionline.co.uk/news/story.asp?ID=-1IPG3N

http://store.aiconsol.com/dn-a7100-dm-pro.html

edit: here's the Denon Professional (UK?) site:
http://www.d-mpro.eu.com/index2.php?CID=2&lang=eng&action=detail&brand=2&Nid=85

Are you sure that the DN-A7100's HDMI inputs are video pass-thru only? I have spoken to an online retailer who spoke with Denon Professional's tech support, and she says that the DN-A7100 does accept 7.1 channel PCM audio over the two HDMI 1.1 inputs.

I have a call into Denon Professional's tech support right now to verify this and will post the answer as soon as I hear back from them. If it does accept multi-channel PCM over the HDMI inputs, this could be just the preamp I've been waiting for--a sub-$1000 preamp with HDMI audio and 7.1 channel balanced XLR outputs.

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&CatID=17&SubCatID=165

I had no idea that denon had a processor out already? I think this might be the upgrade from my mcintosh MX135 that I have been looking for.

According to the person with whom I spoke, it's coming out this month.

Honestly, I'm going to be surprised if the DN-A7100 only does video pass-thru. Why would Denon Professional release a preamp in 2007 that can't accept PCM over HDMI, especially when all their other AVRs that are already out can do it? It. Does. Not. Compute.

According to the person with whom I spoke, it's coming out this month.

Honestly, I'm going to be surprised if the DN-A7100 only does video pass-thru. Why would Denon Professional release a preamp in 2007 that can't accept PCM over HDMI, especially when all their other AVRs that are already out can do it? It. Does. Not. Compute.

They said to me: "The HDMI inputs are at lest version 1.1, so the audio signal will be
processed." Not completely explicative but FWIW.

Hm, what I was told is that just because the HDMI inputs are version 1.1 doesn't necessarily mean that they have to DO anything with them other than switch them. I agree that it would seem illogical to tout version 1.1 compatibility and do nothing but switch the video, but OTOH the specs shown online do not show that PCM over HDMI is supported as a selectable audio input method.

Still waiting on a final word from Denon Professional.

Finally got to speak to a technical support representative at Denon Professional.

The DN-A7100 does accept multi-channel PCM audio through its two HDMI inputs. The technician proved this by connecting his DVD player to the DN-A7100 using only the HDMI input.

He also said the first batch of A7100's came off the boat yesterday (which is why it took them so long to get back to me--they wanted to double-check this functionality with an actual preamp in hand). So if you're looking for a pre-amp under $1,000 with balanced XLR outputs and HDMI multichannel audio switching, the DN-A7100 may be just what you've been waiting for!

can someone explain the benefit of having the XLR outputs?

Any owners out there yet? :)

XLR >http://www.prillaman.net/ht_info_7-cables.html

A few questions, if anyone knows:

1. Does the A7100 also have unbalanced ouputs, or are adapters needed?
2. What is the warranty?

A few questions, if anyone knows:

1. Does the A7100 also have unbalanced ouputs, or are adapters needed?
2. What is the warranty?


It only has balanced outputs.
Warranty is 2 years.

And it does do 7.1 PCM over HDMI! (just confirmed it myself with a HD-XA2 and Batman Begins in DD TrueHD)

It only has balanced outputs.
Warranty is 2 years.

And it does do 7.1 PCM over HDMI! (just confirmed it myself with a HD-XA2 and Batman Begins in DD TrueHD)
COOL! I was waiting to see if you had a delivery today!

And it does do 7.1 PCM over HDMI! (just confirmed it myself with a HD-XA2 and Batman Begins in DD TrueHD)

Outstanding. Does it appear to get bass management of PCM over HDMI right?

i had the same question; does the preamp properly boost the LFE channel by 10Db over hdmi/pcm vs. bitstream over s/pdif?

I didn't notice any lack of bass over HDMI. I listened to a DVD Audio track, a DTS track and a couple scenes from the HD DVD of Batman and then my 1 year old had to go night night which ended my listening session. ;)
I'll be back from vacation next Monday and took Tuesday off as well so I'll have some more time then to take some measurements with the spl meter and compare pcm over HDMI and bitstream over coax.

This is all good stuff! Appreciate your input.

Oh yes, what amplifier(s) and speakers are you using in your set-up? What is your general impression of audio sound-quality? Is it a [noticeable] step above using one of the upper-model Denon recievers (by itself)?

I need more time with it to gauge the sound. I've been using a Marantz SR8001 as a pre/pro running off an ATI 3007 amp, Monitor Audio GS-60 fronts, gold center and surrounds, an infinitie baffle sub with 4 Ascendant Audio Arsenal 15's (those running off a Crown K2) and a Velodyne SMS-1.

And it does do 7.1 PCM over HDMI! (just confirmed it myself with a HD-XA2 and Batman Begins in DD TrueHD)Are you sure that 'Batman Begins' is 7.1?

Sanjay

Sorry, I posted more detail about it in the other thread. Batman is 5.1 TrueHD but the denon will apply 7.1 to the TrueHD pcm feed.
Being there isn't squat out there right now that is 7.1 pcm, it's kind of hard to test for.

If this is good, my Outlaw 990 may soon go up for sale.

The question remains: is it truly balanced, or did they just slap XLR outs on there?

According to the link at the top:

"At the top of the DN-A7100 feature list is its 8 true balanced line-level outputs."

Batman is 5.1 TrueHD but the denon will apply 7.1 to the TrueHD pcm feed.OK, that's different from transmitting 7.1 channels over HDMI. Being there isn't squat out there right now that is 7.1 pcm, it's kind of hard to test for.I don't know if you have a Blu-ray player, but there are a couple of BD titles ('Crank' and 'The Descent') with 6.1 soundtracks encoded as 7.1 discrete channels (the two surround-back channels contain the same info). Some Denon receivers have had no problem accepting those 7.1-channel soundtracks, so hopefully their pre-pro shouldn't have problems either.

Sanjay

According to the link at the top:

"At the top of the DN-A7100 feature list is its 8 true balanced line-level outputs."Uninformative. Putting a SE-to-BAL ic in each channel satisfies this definition as does having a fully balanced circuitry.

Uninformative. Putting a SE-to-BAL ic in each channel satisfies this definition as does having a fully balanced circuitry.


Fair enough, I guess I'm hoping more than anything else, but I guess realistically, Denon could have cheesed out.

This unit sounds promising.

Uninformative. Putting a SE-to-BAL ic in each channel satisfies this definition as does having a fully balanced circuitry.

Agree with your assessment... however Denon Pro's target market would be sorely dismayed by their persistent claim of "true" balanced outputs and their placing this this at the top of feature the list if it proved itself out to be a cheap marketing ploy with IC's at the root of the deception. Wouldn't go over well with mainly consultant/installer buyers in the markets for boardroom, church or other commercial systems.

Most A/V manufacturers prefer to reserve that sort of trick for their relatively "uninformed" consumer markets.

Agree with your assessment... however Denon Pro's target market would be sorely dismayed by their persistent claim of "true" balanced outputs and their placing this this at the top of feature the list if it proved itself out to be a cheap marketing ploy with IC's at the root of the deception. Wouldn't go over well with mainly consultant/installer buyers in the markets for boardroom, church or other commercial systems.

Most A/V manufacturers prefer to reserve that sort of trick for their relatively "uninformed" consumer markets.It is not a trick and, frankly, I think the 'relatively "uninformed" consumer markets' are more likely to be upset that the pre/pro is not fully balanced from input to output. FWIW, simply adding a balanced output to a SE device takes care of the long cable concerns and many studio devices are SE with bal in/outs for that reason. At this price, it might even be advantageous to have a well-executed SE circuit than a balanced one made cheaply.

Kal,

Do the presence of level switches (-10dBV/+4dBu) for the balanced connections on the backplane provide any clue to their "trueness"? These are not commonly found on consumer pieces. What purpose do they serve and what is their impact on the sound?

Studio-standard XLR levels are different from those used in most consumer devices and this lets you set the appropriate output level. This does not prevent you from using whatever setting works best. And, no, afaik, this does not preclude having a bal output driver on a SE circuit.

Balanced outputs on consumer pieces typically enjoy ~6dB additional gain out to the amplifier to which they are connected. I'm struggling to interpret the impact of the -10dB/+4dB spec on a typical consumer amplier with balanced inputs. Do you think that this switch functions as stated or should it be translated to -6dB/+10dB allowing for the conventional spec with consumer gear?

The -10dBV and +4dBu refer to specific output voltages. Whereas, the +6dB, -6dB, +10dB that you refer to merely express change ratio relative to some other value.

+4dBu refers to "studio" level or 1.228V; -10dBV refers to "consumer" level or 0.3162V (equivalent to -7.78dBu) according to the references I found.

Since you mention balanced outputs giving +6dB over SE, that's a good example. +6dB is not a specific level, it merely indicates that much increase with respect to the SE output level - regardless of what level that SE output is. If the SE output is 1 volt, then the balanced output would be 2 volts, hence +6dB more output/gain. If the SE output is 5 volts, then the balanced output would be 10 volts, still the same +6dB ratio.

As Kal mentioned previously, the level you set the switch at is not particularly important. What is important is which setting works better for your amps, or perhaps more precisely, the gain structure of your system.

adding a balanced output to a SE device takes care of the long cable concerns and many studio devices are SE with bal in/outs for that reason.are you referring to overly-long interconnects or speakers cables, or both?

are you referring to overly-long interconnects or speakers cables, or both?Interconnects, of course. A pre/pro has no speaker outputs.

Interconnects, of course.
I see, thanks.


A pre/pro has no speaker outputs.yeah, I know. Just thought you were implying that a balanced configuration improves signal propagation for speaker cables as well.

So what is the best way to connect this pre-pro to amps with unbalanced inputs?

In my case I have an Adcom GFA-5500 and a GFA-7500 driving my mains and surrounds. My sub amps (pair of Crown CE-2000s) already have balanced inputs, so I'm good there.

The thing is that I have ground loop issues and I'm currently running a cheater plug on the 5500 (the 7500 has a non-grounded power cord from the factory.) I'd love to run balanced to the 5500 somehow to eliminate my ground loop.

So has anyone with a PS3 been able to confirm if this pre-pro will do 7.1 PCM? Playing Resistance would be the best test as that is a true 7.1 game, Crank or Descent as has been mentioned would be a good test as well.

If only it had 4 HDMI inputs instead of 2, my order would have already been in. I had a 2307 for a while, but I was unable to get my 4 HDMI sources to work with it when putting a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch in front of it. I doubt that would change with this latest unit from Denon.

Do you know the source of the ground loop?

With the Denon 2307, the ground loop is caused by the shield/ground of the HDMI cable going to my Pearl projector (which has a grounded power cord), and the unbalanced line level out going from the 2307 to my GFA-5500 (which also has a grounded power cord.) As soon as I unplug the HDMI cable going to the projector, the hum goes away. At any rate, I didn't mean to stray off topic.

My understanding is that an RCA (unbalanced) to XLR (balanced) cable basically ties the ground on the XLR side to the shield of the RCA plug, thus creating a ground between the devices.

I guess my point is that you should solve the ground loop. Have you tried connecting everything to the same outlet? Is the sat/cable line tied in somewhere? And don't worry about straying, this is something you should correct and it's pertinent to the A7100, because buying this processor isn't going necessarily fix your hum problem.

Going from RCA to XLR isn't going to buy you any more than going RCA to RCA, because you'll still have an unbalanced system as a whole.

If you have the cable or sat system tied in, the first thing I would disconnect it from the wall and leave all other connections in place. If the hum is gone, then your cable/sat is not grounded to your house ground (very common problem). If the hum does not stop, then try plugging everything into the same outlet.

How are "balanced" XLR outputs connected to an unbalanced amp input, and does it matter if the XLR are SE in origin or from a true balanced circuit? Is there a simple adapter, or is a transformer type adapter needed?

Them 10-20% restocking fees are rather steep!

puts instead of 2, my order would have already been in. I had a 2307 for a while, but I was unable to get my 4 HDMI sources to work with it when putting a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch in front of it. I doubt that would change with this latest unit from Denon.
Try swapping out the Monoprice for the HDMI switcher from BB and see if that makes a difference.

How are "balanced" XLR outputs connected to an unbalanced amp input, and does it matter if the XLR are SE in origin or from a true balanced circuit? Is there a simple adapter, or is a transformer type adapter needed?
At the balanced XLR source output connect pin 2 (positive or non-inverted signal) to the center unbalanced wire and connect pin 1 (ground) to the unbalanced cables outer shield. Leave the XLR source pin 3 alone - never ground it.

Them 10-20% restocking fees are rather steep!

But also not unusual for a online dealer, when something that is not defective is being returned.

My analysis is that this Denon 7100 offers new stuff such as:
FEATURES
The DN-A7100 incorporates the latest (NOT TRUE) generation of digital surround sound decoding technology such as
Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital, DTS-ES (Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1), DTS Neo:6 (Cinema, Music), Dolby Pro-Logic IIx (Movie, Music and Game), Circle Surround II (Cinema and Music). In addition, DENON has focused on the future. By utilizing pre-out jacks, 7.1 direct inputs and a RS-232C communication port, the DN-A7100 is tomorrow’s technology, today (AGAIN NOT TRUE AS NO HD decoders)!
The DN-A7100 incorporates the most advanced Digital Signal Processing circuitry, along with a Crystal® 192 kHz/24 bit D/A converter in each of the 7 channels (but it can only decode up to 128KHz). Independent power supply circuits are incorporated for the FL display, audio and video sections for maximum separation, clarity and dynamic range. Together with hand-selected customized components, all elements work in harmony to recreate the emotion (Denon playing to my heart and soul), exactly as the artist had intended. (Copy lady: are you single?)

Circle Surround II (CS-II) is a powerful and versatile multichannel technology. CS-II is designed to enable up to 6.1 multichannel surround sound playback from mono, stereo, CS encoded sources and other matrix encoded sources. In all cases the decoder extends it into 6 channels of surround audio and a LFE/subwoofer signal. The CS-II decoder creates a listening environment that places the listener “inside” music performances and dramatically improves both hi-fi audio conventional surround-encoded video material. CS-II provides composite stereo rear channels to greatly improve separation and image positioning – adding a heightened sense of realism to both audio and A/V productions. CS-II is packed with other useful feature like dialog clarity (SRS Dialog) for movies and cinema-like bass enrichment (TruBass). CS-II can enable the dialog to become clearer and more discernable in movies and it enables the bass frequencies contained in the original programming to more closely achieve low frequencies – overcoming the low frequency limitations of the speakers by full octave.

and most importantly of all (and only mentioned in passing on pg. 23!) :
HDMI AUDIO:
This setting determines whether to playback audio input to the HDMI jacks through the DN-A7100 or output it through the receiver to a TV or projector.
ENABLE: The audio input to the HDMI jacks can be played back by this receiver. (I thought it was a pre-amp: not a receiver)
In such case, audio signals are not output to the TV or projector.

With its pure and direct modes, unbalanced and balanced inputs and outputs and the 6 (plus TBD) HDMI channels of decoding this is worth a try at $900.

The new HD lossless DTS and Dolby encoding schemes are simply compressed data (like a computer zip file).
So let the player decode/unzip (take that one Dolby!) whatever format is on the disk and send it over as the original PCM (just as it was mastered with). Better to delay the D/A conversion for as long as possible as every analog stage adds noise and distortion.

Somebody finally released a quality pro grade decoder after all these years. If the 7100 was marketed toward the consumer, the price would easily be doubled.

The product is so good it should be outlawed as quick as 123.

At the balanced XLR source output connect pin 2 (positive or non-inverted signal) to the center unbalanced wire and connect pin 1 (ground) to the unbalanced cables outer shield. Leave the XLR source pin 3 alone - never ground it.

It would be a lot easier for most of us to just use an off-the-shelf adapter, which is why I still would like my question answered.

Google XLR to RCA, you'll find plenty of options, simple adapters and cables with XLR on one end and RCA on the other.

How are "balanced" XLR outputs connected to an unbalanced amp input, and does it matter if the XLR are SE in origin or from a true balanced circuit? Is there a simple adapter, or is a transformer type adapter needed?


answer to your question: simple adapter

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_live_wire_xlrmrca_audio_cable?full_sku=100222775&src=4WFRWXX

Does the A7100 have discrete power on and off commands for 3rd-party remote macros?

It would be a lot easier for most of us to just use an off-the-shelf adapter, which is why I still would like my question answered.

I was studying the use of the Denon A7100 preamp/processor for use with the balanced inputs of JBL Pro active monitors. It seems to be one of the few with HDMI inputs and switching.

I concluded I could also use an up to date HDMI switching AVR with RCA preouts using a 8 channel Tascam LA-80. The LA-81 seems to do what you want, balanced to RCA for 8 channels.

http://www.tascamcontractor.com/ftp_resources/files/brochure/LA-80_TECHDOC.pdf (Tascam LA-80 & LA-81)

When using those RCA to XLR adaptors, is there signal degredation?

re-posting link for Tascam LA-80 Line-level Convertor/Disributor spec-sheet:
http://tascamcontractor.com/ftp_resources/files/brochure/LA-80_TECHDOC.pdf

Interesting piece of hardware. Although, would'nt one only need to use XLR-to-RCA cables?

re-posting link for Tascam LA-80 Line-level Convertor/Disributor spec-sheet:
http://tascamcontractor.com/ftp_resources/files/brochure/LA-80_TECHDOC.pdf

Interesting piece of hardware. Although, would'nt one only need to use XLR-to-RCA cables?

That's what I would like to know. A while back I had a discussion with a Coda Technology employee about connecting the unbalanced outputs on my Citation 7.0 to the balanced inputs on their amp in bridged mode with a simple adapter and he said it would not work. The amp also has unbalanced inputs but for 2 channel mode only - to bridge the amp and get the benefit of the higher output with lower distortion (something not typical with most bridged amps) only a true balanced output would work. But if the A-7100 does not have true discrete balanced circuits it may not matter, and especially if you are not bridging an amp with the unique balanced circuitry of the Coda amp.

My reading on XLR to RCA using cables is that its okay but minimal. My understanding is that the transformer (LA-81 for example) is a better way to do it.

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

I guess a Denon AVR with preouts would do the job without the conversion though.

What I found attractive about the Denon A7100 are the XLR outputs, HDMI, and the price. I still haven't made up my mind about powered or normal speakers yet.

Only thing it seems to be lacking is conversion of component to HDMI. :(

Anyone know where I can buy one (not online)? The consumer dealers obviously won't carry it.

Only thing it seems to be lacking is conversion of component to HDMI. :(

Anyone know where I can buy one (not online)? The consumer dealers obviously won't carry it.

PM me for where i bought it. It was dropped shipped and showed up about a week later. They claimed it was in stock but it was drop shipped from California.

Just a correction from an earlier post, this unit has both XLR and RCA outputs. In order to use RCA outputs, take a look at the manual http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214&Tab=Images . Therefore, when using an outboard amp that doesn't have XLR inputs, no problem, no XLR to RCA needed.


Those are 7.1 inputs, not pre-outs. You have to use XLR's or adapters if you want to use RCA's.

You have to use XLR's or adapters if you want to use RCA's.exactly what I thought, there are no RCA pre-outs (only XLR).

I own this piece. It only has xlr's. As it being truly balanced all I know it is super quiet. That is all that matters and why xlr's are needed. It really is a great piece. The uncompressed audio is better than any dts or dd I have heard before. I have owned some of the big boys as well. For the person that asked this is much better than the outlaw. I used to own that and the emotiva dmc-1. Let's put it this way comparing to the Meridian 861 or the ADA cinema reference(krell, lexicon, mcintosh, etc..) I used to own. I have gone thru many. With the uncompressed pcm with prologic 2x applied with my PS3 this sounds better than any of them. If I don't use the uncompressed audio and just the dts and DD then I like the Meridian 861, ADA, Meridian 568, mcintosh mx132 better. This piece is great for the new pcm, period.

I don't own any 7.1 blue rays so I can't know for sure. Do they even make any? I think the only true 7.1 discreet pcm source is a video game and only one. I have not tried that. I think it is resistance.

It really is a great piece. The uncompressed audio is better than any dts or dd I have heard before. this is much better than the outlaw. comparing to the Meridian 861 or the ADA cinema reference(krell, lexicon, mcintosh, etc..) I used to own. I have gone thru many. With the uncompressed pcm with prologic 2x applied with my PS3 this sounds better than any of them. If I don't use the uncompressed audio and just the dts and DD then I like the Meridian 861, ADA, Meridian 568, mcintosh mx132 better. This piece is great for the new pcm, period.wow, that's impressive! (especially for like $1000.00).

What type of amp are you using with this Denon pre-pro?

It is so tempting to pull the trigger on one of these units. I wish it had a conventional face-plate (without rack-mountable ears), my rack is dimensioned for a standard 17in wide component (maybe I can trim the face-plate down?).

Did anyone ever find discrete power on/off codes for the A7100? That's the only reason I passed it by.

I paired it with a Gemstone amp and 7 M&K S-5000THX speakers.

Let's keep the reviews coming please.. thanks

:
FEATURES
The DN-A7100 incorporates the latest (NOT TRUE) generation of digital surround sound decoding technology such as
Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital, DTS-ES (Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1), DTS Neo:6 (Cinema, Music), Dolby Pro-Logic IIx (Movie, Music and Game), Circle Surround II (Cinema and Music). In addition, DENON has focused on the future. By utilizing pre-out jacks, 7.1 direct inputs and a RS-232C communication port, the DN-A7100 is tomorrow’s technology, today (AGAIN NOT TRUE AS NO HD decoders)!

...HDMI AUDIO:
This setting determines whether to playback audio input to the HDMI jacks through the DN-A7100 or output it through the receiver to a TV or projector.

This piece is great for the new pcm, period.


I'm confused by this. What's going to happen if MKtheater runs into a disc that doesn't sport raw PCM?

listen to bitstream :D

Or be sure to buy a player that converts all the sound formats to PCM.

When you guys find a hd or blue ray without pcm let me know. Where do you think true hd comes from.

Or be sure to buy a player that converts all the sound formats to PCM.


So the player decodes the audio and sends the signal out hdmi?

Yes, the players do the decoding. That is why people can get hd audio without 1.3. The player will decode it and then send the pcm.

Ah! So who cares if the pre can't do True-HD or DTS-HD?

Ah! So who cares if the pre can't do True-HD or DTS-HD?

People who's players can't.

People who's players can't.

Some discs require that the player do the decoding, so on-the-fly mixing can occur. I don't believe we'll ever see a player that can't decode to PCM, because of this. I'm pretty sure it's required by the HD-DVD standard. Not sure where Blue-Ray stands on this, though. This pre-amp is great for someone who doesn't need HDMI transcoding. I'm holding out for Integra's new pre-amp, though.

Yes, the players do the decoding. That is why people can get hd audio without 1.3. The player will decode it and then send the pcm.
what about the bass management aspect? Do you usually have the player or the pre-pro handle bass managment?

Some discs require that the player do the decoding, so on-the-fly mixing can occur. I don't believe we'll ever see a player that can't decode to PCM, because of this. I'm pretty sure it's required by the HD-DVD standard. Not sure where Blue-Ray stands on this, though.

There's not a single player, HD-DVD or Blu Ray, that decodes DTS Master audio and outputs it as PCM, despite the many discs encoded with DTS MA tracks.

One of the reasons I favor Blu Ray is it has sufficient capacity to carry uncompressed multichannel PCM tracks, making decoder capabilities irrelevant.

There's not a single player, HD-DVD or Blu Ray, that decodes DTS Master audio and outputs it as PCM, despite the many discs encoded with DTS MA tracks.

And not a single player outputs DTS-MA over bitstream, either. Only the PS3 and Samsung BD1200 are capable (HDMI 1.3), but neither will pass the DTS-MA bitstream with current firmware, according to first-hand reports. I think it's quite likely that we'll see DTS-MA decoding around the same time we see capability of passing bitstream.

Any other owners of this unit out there who can give their thoughts/opinions on it?

Sounds almost to good to be true!

Scott

The DN-A7100 is an excellent buy for someone who needs balanced outputs. No unbalanced except for subwooofer. Transparent and clean with wide dynamics. I have no issues at all.
Sometimes the PCM decode frequency does not display.
CS surround is a step forward over the others. Sensitive FM tuner with 50 presets. Works only to 96KHz with PS3 (not 192KHz).

Considering the $1600 Integra 9.8 for a my second reference system just for variety. But the Onkyo is riskier.

MKTheater might be able to clarify, but from his comments when fed PCM, this unit is as good if not better as an Meridian 861 which says allot.

I'm ready to upgrade myself, and due to budget constraints intially I was going to buy a B&K ref 50 S1, but this unit seems to be a better buy. I'm aware that it does not do OSD via HDMI, and only up-converts video to component, but I can live with that. My concern is good HT performance, and this unit seems to fit the bill.

I own this piece. It only has xlr's. As it being truly balanced all I know it is super quiet. That is all that matters and why xlr's are needed. It really is a great piece. The uncompressed audio is better than any dts or dd I have heard before. I have owned some of the big boys as well. For the person that asked this is much better than the outlaw. I used to own that and the emotiva dmc-1. Let's put it this way comparing to the Meridian 861 or the ADA cinema reference(krell, lexicon, mcintosh, etc..) I used to own. I have gone thru many. With the uncompressed pcm with prologic 2x applied with my PS3 this sounds better than any of them. If I don't use the uncompressed audio and just the dts and DD then I like the Meridian 861, ADA, Meridian 568, mcintosh mx132 better. This piece is great for the new pcm, period.

This is a peripheral question ... I have power amps (ATI) that do not accept balanced inputs. Does this mean that I cannot use this pre-amp? Or does it mean that I can use it with adapters but I will not see the benefits of super-quiet xlr?

You can go to any pro audio shop and have rca to xlr cables made cheaply, this is super quiet. I am sure if and when Meridian releases a HDMI card for the 861 it will be better, but it should be for that much more money. I am already considering upgrading to the krell unit with hdmi but I love the high end(waste alot of money as well). The integra 9.8 will be a very nice piece but will not sound any better most likely. More features absolutely but it will cost alot more. I am selling mine for cheap with the xlr cables I have. PM me if interested. I will not buy the integra but go to high end for an improvement in sound.

You can go to any pro audio shop and have rca to xlr cables made cheaply, this is super quiet.

Thx! But once I use an xlr to rca cable won't I lose all the benefits of balanced connections? I thought that the main advantage of balanced connections was that the noise floor was reduced provided both sides had them ... or am I mistaken and is it sufficient for just one side to have them? :confused:

I have had good results doing this. Unless they are super long cables you won't have a problem. Using adapters should work as well but not as good. I have adapters as well. I have tried all sorts of combinations. I also have rca to xlr cables but these are male xlr's. You need xlr to rca cables which mean the xlr's are female.

So what is the best way to connect this pre-pro to amps with unbalanced inputs?

I'd love to run balanced to the 5500 somehow to eliminate my ground loop.




This may be your answer, though you will need more than one. It will convert balanced to unbalanced and eliminate the hum. I use it and it works great.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DTI/

Sweetwater is a super vendor, btw.

Nice dsmith901, do they have multichannel ones or just buy a few of them?

oops, you already answered that

the Onkyo is riskierI have the same feeling as well.

The Integra 9.8 and I believe the Meridian does as well, has room EQ. I would find it hard to believe that in a real world setup, the Denon without that, could sound as good as those two pre/pros.

I did not need room EQ, I have treated my room and it sounds damn good. It is a nice feature though. I am not saying the Integra 9.8 won't be better all around, but it also cost more as well. I personally think it is or will be nice. The denon is a basic unit that gives 2 hdmi switches and hd audio with xlr outputs.

I did not need room EQso how did you set-up your levels, with a dB meter and manual measuring?

So this Denon DN-A7100 unit yields "world-class" sound-quality for music sources (CD, SACD, DVD-A, etc.,...)?

I got the following responses back from Denon tech support in case any one is interested. I think I am going to pull the trigger. I found an authorized dealer who has great prices on them. For this price how can you go wrong. I'm just not owrried about hdmi 1.3 right now.

do the hdmi inputs handle 5.1 & 7.1 audio or just 5.1?
The HDMI inputs will handle 5.1 and 7.1

if the unit is setup in a 7.1 config and it receives 5.1 over hdmi, will it still process the signal into a 7.1 output? What surround modes can it utilize during this process.
The unit will process a 5.1 signal to 7.1 in Dolby Pro Logic and DTS Neo modes

IS the VCR OUT s-video connector discrete from the monitor out? So I can record one thing on the vcr out while watching something else?
The VCR out is not discrete from the monitor out. It will output whatever input is selected by the receiver.

How flexible is the bass management on this unit?

With my current pre-pro (an Outlaw) I am able to pick different crossovers for my fronts, center and surrounds. This has been very useful given that my front, center and surround/rear speakers have different bass handling abilities.

Thx!

Reading the manual... looks like the sub crossover can be set at 80, 100, 120 and 150, 180. However, the rest of the 7 speakers only has a seeting of small or large, which is a fixed 100hz crossover :rolleyes: . Speaker distance and level, is available for all speakers.

Reading the manual... looks like the sub crossover can be set at 80, 100, 120 and 150, 180. However, the rest of the 7 speakers only has a seeting of small or large, which is a fixed 100hz crossover :rolleyes: . Speaker distance and level, is available for all speakers.

I think that I'll wait then ... the ability to set the crossovers for each group of speakers makes a big difference in my setup.

In my setup, I sent tones at various frequencies to each speaker to see how low the crossover could be set before distortions set in. After a lot of experimenting I set my front crossover at 60Hz (speakers are pretty good to under 30Hz ... could've set as low as 40Hz, but there was no improvement in going below 60Hz), the center at 100Hz (distortions a little below 80Hz) and the surrounds at 120Hz (small speakers that struggle with even 90Hz and my sub is at the rear of the room so localization is not a problem).

How flexible is the bass management on this unit?

With my current pre-pro (an Outlaw) I am able to pick different crossovers for my fronts, center and surrounds. This has been very useful given that my front, center and surround/rear speakers have different bass handling abilities.

Thx!
After many years of buying tiny surround sounds speakers for the back I now purchase the same full range speaker for all channels. For example I use four Monitor Audio Audio RS6 for front and surrounds and then their normal center channel. All are set full range. If possible just set the rears on the floor below where the (tiny no bass surrounds) would normally go.
This avoids the hidden bass redirection and mixing which seriously degrades the surround sound atmosphere. In other words KISS. :)

After many years of buying tiny surround sounds speakers for the back I now purchase the same full range speaker for all channels. For example I use four Monitor Audio Audio RS6 for front and surrounds and then their normal center channel. All are set full range. If possible just set the rears on the floor below where the (tiny no bass surrounds) would normally go.
This avoids the hidden bass redirection and mixing which seriously degrades the surround sound atmosphere. In other words KISS. :)

I suppose that you are right in that ... unfortunately given my current setup, this is not an option. The wiring etc. have been done inside the walls so as to mount the surrounds (side and rear) a few feet above ear level and everything is neat and hidden. Would be a political nightmare to try and change this (including the fact that I'd use up valuable floor space)! ;)

Sankar- I know the new Integra can do this, but I'm still not sure about the NAD though. I agree: not having individual crossover adjustment by at least speaker pair is a deal breaker for me. I've had it now in 3 pre/pros going back to 1999, and I won't go backwards. :)

"After many years of buying tiny surround sounds speakers for the back I now purchase the same full range speaker for all channels. For example I use four Monitor Audio Audio RS6 for front and surrounds and then their normal center channel. All are set full range. If possible just set the rears on the floor below where the (tiny no bass surrounds) would normally go.
This avoids the hidden bass redirection and mixing which seriously degrades the surround sound atmosphere. In other words KISS. "

I've heard a setup like that... hearing bass from surrounds is defintely an experience.

I've heard a setup like that... hearing bass from surrounds is defintely an experience.In a good room with fortunate arrangements. There is the issue that the best, most appropriate places to put the speakers for imaging may not be the best places for bass linearity, which is dependant on room dimensions.

Finally pulled the trigger on one of these. Can't want to hear the uncompressed audio. Found it for a great price from an authorized dealer. PM me if you want the source.

Scott

sacarmic, did you receive it? Any inital impressions?

Yes, I have it, but I need to make new cables since I will be going balanced cabling. Hopefully I will have it installed by the ned of the week.

Scott

youre a patient man... I wouldn't be able to go to sleep knowing I have a new pre-amp waiting to be hooked up :D

I now purchase the same full range speaker for all channels. All are set full rangewhat do you use for power in this case (multi-channel amp, or multiple amps)?

what do you use for power in this case (multi-channel amp, or multiple amps)?
I have three different systems. I my other I use the Monitor Audio GS20 (better dynamic range and extended bass) than the RS6. The RS6 is used for all of my surround channels. Amplifiers?
Well it isn't that simple if you are looking for a recommendation. The MA speakers like an amplifier with high damping factor to control the ported bass. I also use power factor correction/local reserve at the wall outlet. All 12 amplifiers have balanced inputs though.
Also we are in a cycle where new electronic products have been quietly cost reduced at the insistence of their customers (read manufactures who want to maximize profitability). So it is a lousy situation and the Chinese are publicly upset. Well so too am I, as a consumer. :)

Here is what I'd do for the best engineered cables:
http://www.markertek.com
Search #SC6XXJ

A worthwhile upgrade for those who can silver solder their own is (as no one makes them):
http://www.markertek.com/
L-4E6S BK
NC3FXX-EMC
NC3MXX-EMC
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=370-038

Amplifiers?
Well it isn't that simple if you are looking for a recommendation. The MA speakers like an amplifier with high damping factor to control the ported bass. I also use power factor correction/local reserve at the wall outlet. All 12 amplifiers have balanced inputs thoughthanks for your input. I'm just essentially trying to get an idea of what people are using (speakers/amplification), especially since I really prefer multi-channel audio (SACD, DVD-A).

Moreover I have [really] been intrigued with the Monitor Audio GS-Series speakers (in particular the GS-20's). I wish Montior Audio had a matching full 3-way GS-Series center. What kind of dampening factor would be adequate for the GS-20's you think, like 160 or 170?

I would hope to have a future system composed of four full-range floor-standers coupled with a matching center, all combined within a (5.1 or 7.1) home-theater configuration.

Another specially engineered cable which has a very clean open sound. Not for bright systems though:

Double Shield Balanced cables http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=PW-M-03/421.0.16813.16090.16825.16815.0

Reading the manual... looks like the sub crossover can be set at 80, 100, 120 and 150, 180. However, the rest of the 7 speakers only has a seeting of small or large, which is a fixed 100hz crossover :rolleyes: . Speaker distance and level, is available for all speakers.

I am a bit confused on this. Does this mean if I set the sub at an 80hz cross, and my mains to small that the mains will cross over at 100, but the sub at 80 so there is a gap in the 80-100hz region? I know it is all gradual, but dont the sub and mains cross at the same freq usually? :confused:

Also, I know there is only balanced connections for the 7 main speakers, but is there an unbalanced sub output atleast, or is that ONLY balanced as well? I have an amp with balanced inputs, so no problem there, but my SVS only has RCA and I would rather not use adapters.

One last question. I have read that apparently this pre/pro will only pass 5.1 PCM, not 7.1. My question is if you have a 7.1 PCM soundtrack are you SOL and have to listen to the DD track, or can you still get a 5.1 PCM out of the 7.1 and simply apply some PLIIx for the 7.1?

Also, I know there is only balanced connections for the 7 main speakers, but is there an unbalanced sub output atleast, or is that ONLY balanced as well? I have an amp with balanced inputs, so no problem there, but my SVS only has RCA and I would rather not use adapters.


Why not? There's no functional difference between the output being converted from balanced to unbalanced in the preamp or in the cables. Just get a cable with XLR on one end and RCA on the other.

Why not? There's no functional difference between the output being converted from balanced to unbalanced in the preamp or in the cables. Just get a cable with XLR on one end and RCA on the other.

Thanks for the info, I was not aware it worked that way. I still will probably use the unbalanced (for the sub which I checked the A7100 has) since I dont need to get an extra adapter.

Why not? There's no functional difference between the output being converted from balanced to unbalanced in the preamp or in the cables. Just get a cable with XLR on one end and RCA on the other.

If he's talking about the sub, then he doesn't need an XLR cable at all. He just needs an RCA as the DN-A7100 has an unbalanced out for the sub.

Hi! I just found this forum a few weeks ago while I was researching this preamp. Thanks to everyone who helped answer my PM questions.

I finally decided to order it, and it just arrived yesterday.

I have a couple (relatively minor) complaints:
- The XLR inputs distort (clip) at the +4db setting. -10dB works fine, and the outputs work fine in either setting. Has anyone else tried using these yet?
- I've already broken two of the little doors on the optical input ports. It doesn't seem possible to unplug a cable without bringing the little door with it.

Overall I'm still very happy with my purchase. SQ is excellent, and as mentioned before it is very quiet. I am mainly using it for music, and I probably won't use it for video for a while. I need to fix a ground loop coming from my cable TV first.

A couple other things:

You can buy an XLR to 1/4" TS adaptor from Radio Shack or Guitar Center that uses a transformer to convert the signal from balanced to unbalanced. This way you can still get the benefit of a balanced cable. Most XLR to RCA cables are not balanced at all.


Reading the manual... looks like the sub crossover can be set at 80, 100, 120 and 150, 180. However, the rest of the 7 speakers only has a seeting of small or large, which is a fixed 100hz crossover . Speaker distance and level, is available for all speakers.

There is a single setting for crossover frequency, but it looks to me like it controls both the LPF for the sub and the HPF for the small speakers. I don't think small speakers are fixed at a 100Hz HPF.

Been using one of these about 3 1/2 weeks and it's pretty much unbeatable for the price.

I am loving mine!!! It is pretty amazing that it cost what it did.

After having this unit for a few weeks, wondering if you have any owners out there have any further thoughts... or opinions on this unit.

Mendes9,

It is a good unit. My gripes are minor. I wished it was more future proof as in being able to accept 7ch via HDMI (here's hoping for a firmware upgrade but I doubt it). I would like it to have better muting circuitry as switching channels or modes makes a minor but annoying click or popping sound from the speakers. I also wish they would include a regular face plate. Also hoped they would have incorporated some of the bells and whistles as found in the 3806, such as Audyssey. But for the price, it can't be beat.

Other than that satisfied with the unit for now. Anyone want to chime in on sound signature? Denon usually uses Burr-Brown DAC but went with Crystal for this unit. I don't know enough to comment on their choice of DACs. I agree with another poster who observed a slight forwardness to the sound. I've noticed when I've cranked the volume way UP, it is really bright especially in female vocals.

What are your thoughts based on your few weeks of ownership.

Well, I can say I am really loving it! It is not as full feature as some others, but it is only $750, so I'm not expecting as much. I will say it is VERY clean sounding! Still deciding on which surround settings I like. I am so used to Logic 7 on my Lexicon, I keep referencing that.

iove, according to tech support, it can accept 7.1 via hdmi. I also agree that Audyssey would be nice. As for the face, you can order one as a part and then take it to a machine shop and have the ears milled off.

Anway, I am definitely not regretting it and plan to own this piece for a long time.

sacarmic, which Lex model did you have before, and how does it compare sound quality wise?

I had the MC-1. I will say L7 is tough to beat for 2>7 channel surround. So I am still trying to find the best surround mode for my taste. But, I really think the Denon sounds cleaner. Probably the much more modern D/A's. So the sound of the units is better, but processing needs more tweaking to sound great than L7 .

Don't most of you have 19" racks for your A/V stuff? I thought that was the norm. I do, so the rackmount ears on the 7100 suit me perfectly.

I also plan for my theatre room to double as a jam room for my musician buddies and I so I plan to have a small mixer in my A/V rack. The balanced inputs on the 7100 really got me excited when I saw that because that enables a really nice connection between the mixer and the prepro.

Denon tech support told me that the 7100 does not do true HD audio over HDMI. What do they mean by that? They also said it will not process 1080p video. You guys with 1080p displays and the 7100, what are you doing? I have a 720p proj now and I plan to stick with that for at least a year or so but I'd like to upgrade to a 1080p proj sooner or later.

The unit cannot decode TrueHD, DD+ or any of the hi res DTS signals over HDMI. THe decoding must be done in the player. It can only accept 5.1 or 7.1 uncompressed PCM (up to 24/96) via HDMI.

I also wish they would include a regular face plate.yeah, this was one of the issues that prevented me from pulling the trigger. I even thought about having the wider face-plate machined, but too much of a hassle (I guess). Otherwise I would have easily went for it.


Denon usually uses Burr-Brown DAC but went with Crystal for this unit. I don't know enough to comment on their choice of DACs. I agree with another poster who observed a slight forwardness to the sound. I've noticed when I've cranked the volume way UP, it is really bright especially in female vocals.yeah, I figured the particular Crystal model DAC's Denon chose must be pretty good.

What type of amplifier are you using?

iove, according to tech support, it can accept 7.1 via hdmi.


Hmmmm...I asked about it once on the forum and these guys didn't think so. www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682966&highlight=dn-a7100&page=11 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682966&highlight=dn-a7100&page=11) See post #325.

If you're right I may be keeping this guy a bit longer than I thought! :)

What type of amplifier are you using?


B&K 200.7 S2

So, what do the other owners of this unit think? There can't just be only 3 or 4 of us on AVSforum?

iove, check out my post 91 on this thread. The lines in italics are the responses I got back from Denon tech support when I asked that specific question.

iove, check out my post 91 on this thread. The lines in italics are the responses I got back from Denon tech support when I asked that specific question.

Is this verified? I'm not being argumentative but would like this issue put to rest. I think Van Wilder is 7.1 PCM but it is such a bad movie not worth an upgrade otherwise I would verify it myself.

Can anyone say whether or not this thing has discrete power on/off remote codes? I've asked D&M Pro tech support and from their nonsensical answer ("It uses standard IR freqencies and codes"), they clearly don't understand what discrete codes are.

OK, so I purchased the unit and set it up. I used to own a rotel RTC-965 pre-amp. Immediately, I heard more rear surround effects that I didn't hear before. The remote sucks, others noted that.. although I only had one night with the unit, my first impression is that I"m not terribly impressed with the sound. I thought my old Rotel, sounded fuller than this unit, even though the surround effects were not as good. I have the crossover setup at 100hz, I tried setting my center to both large and small (even though it should be set to small). I used XLR to RCA adapters, and it's hooked up to my rotel RMB-985 amp. I'm feeding it an optical digital connection from my DSS receiver, and an coaxil digitial connection from my oppo dvd player. I do have a slight cold, so I dont' know if my ears are up to par, but it just doesn't sound as full as my old Rotel, it sounds thinner. Anyone else feel the same way?

Is this verified? I'm not being argumentative but would like this issue put to rest. I think Van Wilder is 7.1 PCM but it is such a bad movie not worth an upgrade otherwise I would verify it myself.

I hope I'm not going crazy by replying to myself but based upon my testing it appears that this unit does not accept 6.1/7.1 PCM over HDMI.

I used my Sony 300 to output the LPCM tracks from Crank and Descent (both from Lionsgate) to the DN-A7100 and the rear surround LED ("S") does not light up. When I set it to Dolby 5.1 EX, then the rear surround LED lights up on both movies. Another interesting observation, when I'm in the Auto mode, it selects "Stereo" and only outputs the L and R channel sound through the L and R speaker. The center and surround channels are lost. I have to manually select "multi-channel stereo" to get it to output all channels to the appropriate speaker.

All other studios (e.g. Disney, Sony), the Denon correctly chooses multi-channel stereo for all LPCM tracks in auto mode. Wierd, Am I doing something wrong? Unfortunately, the only 6.1/7.1 LPCM titles I have are from Lionsgate? Anyone run into something similar?

I do have a slight cold, so I dont' know if my ears are up to par, but it just doesn't sound as full as my old Rotel, it sounds thinner. Anyone else feel the same way?

I don't. What exactly do you mean thin? As in inadequate bass? And is this in movie or while listening to music? Make sure you adjust all the menus and settings. Treble and Bass controls are on the remote. Also, don't forget to look at the external switches and settings, like the 4db boost in the back of the unit.

This unit has very little tone control or processing. You may want to compare listening to music in direct or pure mode to compare the two.
Then again wait a few days after you get over your cold to do some critical listening.

I hope I'm not going crazy by replying to myself but based upon my testing it appears that this unit does not accept 6.1/7.1 PCM over HDMI.

I used my Sony 300 to output the LPCM tracks from Crank and Descent (both from Lionsgate) to the DN-A7100 and the rear surround LED ("S") does not light up. When I set it to Dolby 5.1 EX, then the rear surround LED lights up on both movies. Another interesting observation, when I'm in the Auto mode, it selects "Stereo" and only outputs the L and R channel sound through the L and R speaker. The center and surround channels are lost. I have to manually select "multi-channel stereo" to get it to output all channels to the appropriate speaker.

All other studios (e.g. Disney, Sony), the Denon correctly chooses multi-channel stereo for all LPCM tracks in auto mode. Wierd, Am I doing something wrong? Unfortunately, the only 6.1/7.1 LPCM titles I have are from Lionsgate? Anyone run into something similar?

I had similar issues. See this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10406308&postcount=265

How does the Xover work on this unit. I have mine set to 100hz. Does this mean that the speakers set to small, that anything under 100hz will be cut off, and that the sub receives everything 100hz and below? The DC trigger is it 12vdc?

How does the Xover work on this unit. I have mine set to 100hz. Does this mean that the speakers set to small, that anything under 100hz will be cut off, and that the sub receives everything 100hz and below? The DC trigger is it 12vdc?

It will be gradually cut off. It's not like a brickwall where you have everything under a specified frequency drops off. Also note that when you are in source direct or pure direct mode, the cross over and tone controls do not work. So if something sounds good in direct and crappy in other modes such as "auto" then that means you have a settings that is incorrect.

For example, I was having imaging issues in "auto" but sounds fine in direct. Turns out I had set the distance 1 foot off on my left speaker which affected the sound. Even though the +1 foot is technically correct, I moved the speaker so I could set the same distance for the speaker and now life is good!

The DC trigger is 12 volts DC.

Where the unit sounds better is by using the HDMI uncompressed audio. I would not use the optical or the coax, it was made for the hd format, although it does the compressed format just fine. I like my high end processor better thru the optical as well but uncompressed audio is very nice.

Someone tell me I'm not losing it! Just got this unit and no matter what I do I can't get the center channel to output any signal via hdmi unless I select the Virtual surround mode. I have set up my Toshiba XA2 and told it I have no center channel. I told the 7100 I have no center channel too!

I can't believe I MUST have a center channel when using HDMI. I thought all processors mix the center into the front left and right when no center channel is specified??

Someone tell me I'm not losing it! Just got this unit and no matter what I do I can't get the center channel to output any signal via hdmi unless I select the Virtual surround mode. I have set up my Toshiba XA2 and told it I have no center channel. I told the 7100 I have no center channel too!

I can't believe I MUST have a center channel when using HDMI. I thought all processors mix the center into the front left and right when no center channel is specified??Set the player to all speakers on, same distanceand no bass management (all LARGE). Use the settings in the Denon only; do not duplicate settings.

Kal
Thanks for the reply. I just tried that, setting the Toshiba XA2 to all speakers on, same distance, all large, but I still get no center channel (voices) coming out the front L and R speakers, when I set the 7100 to "auto decode".

I thought that the speakers settings in the Toshiba XA2 (or any player for that matter), only affected the 7.1 analog outputs of the player, and any audio sent out the HDMI link was always all channels and the processor/decoder settings took it from there to decide how to route the channels to the appropriate speakers, no?? I believe that the SPDIF works that way and I thought HDMI did too?

Could anyone with this 7100 unit try setting the center channel to "none" in the setup and tell me if the voices are then routed to the front L and R speakers. Please make sure you are receiving the soundtrack via HDMI.

Thanks

PS I just tried listening to the digital SPDIF by selecting this input on the 7100. The SPDIF does have voices routed to the L and R speakers! I just tried running the HDMI cable directly into the 7100 from the XA2 without going thru my HDMI switcher (monoprice) , but there's no difference.

Kal
Thanks for the reply. I just tried that, setting the Toshiba XA2 to all speakers on, same distance, all large, but I still get no center channel (voices) coming out the front L and R speakers, when I set the 7100 to "auto decode".

I thought that the speakers settings in the Toshiba XA2 (or any player for that matter), only affected the 7.1 analog outputs of the player, and any audio sent out the HDMI link was always all channels and the processor/decoder settings took it from there to decide how to route the channels to the appropriate speakers, no?? I believe that the SPDIF works that way and I thought HDMI did too?YOu are probably right but I figured it was worth a try since I have not actually used either of these specific devices.

PS I just tried listening to the digital SPDIF by selecting this input on the 7100. The SPDIF does have voices routed to the L and R speakers! I just tried running the HDMI cable directly into the 7100 from the XA2 without going thru my HDMI switcher (monoprice) , but there's no difference.
That suggests there's something in the setup for the HDMI output involved.

Hi Kal
Yes, my choices in the XA2 HDMI audio setup are auto, pcm , downmixed pcm. I tried them all, the "auto" I suspect means the source talks to the receiver (7100) and finds out what the receiver can receive, either bitstream or pcm, then sends it what it wants.

The "pcm" setting just sends the decoded soundtrack to receiver with pcm only, and the "downmixed pcm" setting sends two channel pcm to the receiver, which I can see on the 7100 display as two channels. In this mode I do get the voices in the L and R speakers but there is no surround channels obviously.

So I'm still at a loss what to do other than someone who has one to try what I suggested above. I may have to call Denon too.

Maybe it's an incompatibility between the Toshiba XA2 and the Denon.

Well, I just talked to Denon Pro tech support, and they say the pcm sent to the A7100 is discrete (obviously) and that the unit can't mix the center channel into the front L and R speakers. I guess I will have to stick with that "virtual" surround mode until I get a center channel, if I ever do. Bummer.

Does anyone know if this is how all pcm sent over hdmi decoders work???

No, I think that is a design choice. In fact, I cannot think of another decoder/pre-amp/receiver that takes LPCM discrete input and disables processing that input in the usual ways (phantom center, bass management, delay/distance setting, individual speaker volume).

"Where the unit sounds better is by using the HDMI uncompressed audio. I would not use the optical or the coax, it was made for the hd format, although it does the compressed format just fine. I like my high end processor better thru the optical as well but uncompressed audio is very nice."

I will have to get my hands on a HD-DVD player, as with optical being feed from my Oppo, I doesn't sound much better than my 7yr old rotel pre-amp I was using. In fact I dare to say it may sound worse... the bass isn't quite right.. and overall I don't beleive it sounds as full as my old rotel. Surround effects are noticebly better with the Denon. I have to keep playing with it..

I tried using the digital out last night to feed my Behringer DCX2496 crossover and it works fine, but the volume control on the A7100 has no effect on the level of the output going out the SPDIF digital output. Does anyone know if there is a setting inside the Denon that can change that or is that just the way it is?

I was hoping to feed the digital output from the Denon to my crossover so that the main left and right channels would be all digital all the way to the crossover. I was able to sample this for a short time last night but at full volume. I shut it down pretty quickly because the midrange amplifier was clipping.

I just wanted to clear up that I solved my problem with redirecting the center channel to the front mains. It was/is a firmware bug in my Toshiba XA2. The SPDIF output must be set to PCM to get proper bass and speaker redirection to work! This of course makes no sense whatsoever because I'm using HDMI or the analog outputs, but that's what must be done at this point in time to make it work. There's a whole thread about bass management problems and this solution along with setting all speakers to either large or small but not a combination. Anyway there you go.

Graydon...that's just the way it is with such outputs on all processors.

I am really liking this unit. For me it's a no brainer keeper. Of course unless some rediculous deal comes along on something I can't resist. Come to think of it, that's what this was.

I can't explain it.. must be placebo.. but the unit is sounding much better.. I re-adjusted the sub.. it's sounds better than ever. The big difference is the low frequences that I wasn't getting before I know feel. Once again, surround effects are a major upgrade from previous processor. Only thing I still dont like at times is that it seems to exaggerate some hi frequences especially in the vocal range in my setup (B&W 800' series 3). Anyway, I'm starting to like the unit.

If you haven't tried it hit the HT-EQ button on the remote and it might ease the high frequencies a bit.

Don't most of you have 19" racks for your A/V stuff? I thought that was the norm. I do, so the rackmount ears on the 7100 suit me perfectly.

Yeah, I've been debating on getting a rackmount face for my current processor when I upgrade it, but, this Denon has slightly better features.

I also plan for my theatre room to double as a jam room for my musician buddies and I so I plan to have a small mixer in my A/V rack. The balanced inputs on the 7100 really got me excited when I saw that because that enables a really nice connection between the mixer and the prepro.

Exactly, this is perfect for my Vestax 07 Pro mixer for my 1200s, and other DJs stuff. Certainly for the long cable runs; or to a phono pre that has balanced outs.

Denon tech support told me that the 7100 does not do true HD audio over HDMI. What do they mean by that? They also said it will not process 1080p video. You guys with 1080p displays and the 7100, what are you doing? I have a 720p proj now and I plan to stick with that for at least a year or so but I'd like to upgrade to a 1080p proj sooner or later.

But, they do pass-thru? The addition of HDMI audio, along with balanced I/O and at that price is definitely making it very attractive, but, if it doesn't pass through 1080p...

But, they do pass-thru? The addition of HDMI audio, along with balanced I/O and at that price is definitely making it very attractive, but, if it doesn't pass through 1080p...

The unit does pass 1080p. I wouldn't use it to upconvert/transcode though.

And to address Graydon's concern, I think Denon tech meant it won't decode TrueHD or DTS MA. You will need to buy a player that will decode it, output via PCM over HDMI to the Denon. AFAIK, the player doesn't exist...yet.

Thanks guys for your input. I appreciate it greatly.

I thought I'd post a couple photos of my rack as it sits currently. I am feeding the A7100 with an Oppo 981 and a Sony ES 5-CD changer. I have a Toshiba HD-A2 coming next week, so that will be interesting for sure. Above the Denon, there's a Roland 16ch line mixer which is connected to the Denon but none of the snakes frolm the studio are connected to the Roland yet.

http://www.gdsamps.com/Photo/House/AV%20Rack%20fr.jpg

http://www.gdsamps.com/Photo/House/AV%20Rack%20rear.jpg

The Denon feeds through a big snake to the amp rack which is in a closet behind the screen. You can check out photos of that part of the installation in my blog (link in my sig below)

Is their a secret to getting the dc-trigger to work on this unit, I've tried all settings in the OSD, even the wrong ones like setting it to "disable" and I've connected an 1/8 stereo plug, with bare wires on the other end to m volt meter, and it never sends out 12vdc. I'm trying to connect it to my panamax to trigger it. Anyone have this working?

Mendes9,
Did you try the uncompressed audio yet?

not yet...

mendes9....I've got the trigger working on mine. I just turned all the options on.

I got an HD-DVD player.. OH MY.. you were not kidding... I was more impressed with the sound than the picture.

Was it the a2 for $98, I just bought one myself. yes this unit is much better with uncompressed than dd and dts

yes,, A2 $98

Sending DOLBY TRUE HD , through PCM over HDMI to my the 7100 wow... I have B&W 8 series.. really impressed me. Picture I was not as impressed. I have a Sanyo 720p, on a 92inch screen.

I bought a slightly used HD-A2 a couple months ago and thought I got a deal at $180. Oh well! It _was_ a good deal and it still works great so I can't really complain.

I run that through my DN-A7100 to my home theatre through the HDMI cable exclusively and it sounds great. I haven't even tried the digital connections between the DVD player and the A7100.

The Oppo 981 also sounds great through HDMI BTW.

I try used a Denon 7100 with my Integra RDA 7.0....ideas

Hi

I am thinking about using the DN-A7100 as a PCM to analog decoder for my Lexicon MC12B, would it be possible for the DN-A7100 to convert the PCM from the HDMI input to the analogs out which I then would connect to analogs in on the Lexicon, and then run the video at 1080P24 from the HDMI out without any processing to my DVDO VP50.

If this is possible it would be a cheap way to get HD Audio from may Toshiba XE-1 and PS3, the only thing missing would be DTS-HD MA.

Don't anyone have an opinion, I have been thinking after my last post, would it be possible to use a onkyo 705 instead of the dn-a7100, because then I would be able to decode all HD sound farmats.

Come on don't be shy:)

I don't believe the Denon has analog outs unless you're talking about the XLR. You would need a conversion adapter. Aside from that anything is possible. But you're just better off hooking up the amp directly to the Denon.

Hi

I am thinking about using the DN-A7100 as a PCM to analog decoder for my Lexicon MC12B, would it be possible for the DN-A7100 to convert the PCM from the HDMI input to the analogs out which I then would connect to analogs in on the Lexicon, and then run the video at 1080P24 from the HDMI out without any processing to my DVDO VP50.

If this is possible it would be a cheap way to get HD Audio from may Toshiba XE-1 and PS3, the only thing missing would be DTS-HD MA.

As noted you only have XLR analog outs on the A7100. Probably cheaper to go with a receiver and use the RCA outs to your MC12B. The next set up, that can also decode DTS-MA, is the Onkyo/Integra Research pre-pro that's about twice the price. Or the Rotel RSP-1069 priced between the two. All these have RCA/phono pre-amp outs.
Unfortunately currently there are no HD disc players capable of decoding DTS-MA to their analog outs, you'll just have to wait.
I would surmise that you're trying to get something to tide you over until you can get the 'HD' upgrade for the Lexicon?

Hi Gaderson

Yes, I'm waiting for Lexicon to come with a new model instead of the MC12HD which I see as a temporary solution from Lexicon before they come out with something new. I don't think we wil see anythinh for a least a year, but who knows, and I do know that I would be need adaptors from XLR to RCA if I was going for the DN-a 7100, but that should not be a problem should it.

I was leaning towards the Denon because it is "cheap" cost more or less the same as onkyo 705 where I am from, and I would think it would be more transparent because it dosn't have any amps, last but not least the Denon have video passtrough on 1080P24 and I don't think the Onkyo have that.

XLR adapters are cheap enough and not a problem.
I was using an A-7100 with an MC4 and feeding the MC4 thru the 7100 'cause Logic7 doesn't work thru the MC4's 5.1 input. I've recently bought an HDMI switcher and a Moome external HDMI unit and have just taken the MC4 out of the loop.

I'd suggest you go ahead and get the Denon.

How do you feel the sonics of the MC-4 compare with the this Denon.. ?

The Denon has better resolution IMO. I'm a big fan of Logic7 but, to me, with the added resolution of the Denon I won't miss it. I's not harsh sounding which is something I won't live with...the MC4 seems a bit veiled I guess when doing direct comparisons

Previously, I used 3 Quad ESL63's fed with Conrad Johnson tubes for my front three speakers...just to let you know what my tastes are. [they became too big when I went with a 10' wide screen for HD Sports] I use Infinity MTS Preludes now.

For the price this Denon is surprisingly good. I'm feeding it 2 HD Tivos and a PS3 with HDMI [w/HDMI switcher] and one HD Tivo with component and optical [HDMI's broken on this Tivo]

Thanks guys for your input. I appreciate it greatly.

I thought I'd post a couple photos of my rack as it sits currently. I am feeding the A7100 with an Oppo 981 and a Sony ES 5-CD changer. I have a Toshiba HD-A2 coming next week, so that will be interesting for sure. Above the Denon, there's a Roland 16ch line mixer which is connected to the Denon but none of the snakes frolm the studio are connected to the Roland yet.

The Denon feeds through a big snake to the amp rack which is in a closet behind the screen. You can check out photos of that part of the installation in my blog (link in my sig below)

I note that you only have one HDMI hooked up (LPCM from your Oppo?) and no HDMI out. With your HD-DVD player hooked up does it let you import the audio streams even without a HDMI(HDCP) display hooked up?

I note that you only have one HDMI hooked up (LPCM from your Oppo?) and no HDMI out. With your HD-DVD player hooked up does it let you import the audio streams even without a HDMI(HDCP) display hooked up?

Good eye! That was merely due to the fact that I was rewiring while I took that photo. I have an HDMI cable going to my projector and I now have two HDMIs going in to the Denon. One from the HD-A2 and one from the Oppo 981. Actually, I just bought a Samsung 260F digital tuner which uses an HDMI output. I borrowed the Oppo's HDMI cable and input to hook up the tuner so I may remove the Oppo permanently since I never use it.

mendes9....I've got the trigger working on mine. I just turned all the options on.

So it just comes on when you turn it on? No momentary 'offs' when switching sources? I need the trigger for my multichannel amp. Would be nicer to have two.

Also as I alluded to earlier, can you get LPCM through the HDMI without hooking up a display? I think when not doing HDMI 'through' it should work, as my Pioneer blu-ray player does output over HDMI (LPCM only) and component simultaneously. (I'll be using a component switch as I need 4 inputs, so the DN's component switch will be bypassed.)

The convert from S-video to component, does that deinterlace to 480p? Or is it just a transcoder to YCbCr, so I need to use the SD input to my HDTV?

I played with the DC-trigger again today, I can't get it to work. I basically hooked up a 1/8 mini plug wire, I have 2 bare wires on the other end, and connected them to a volt meter. In the menu option, I then tried all settings, mainroom, disable, and remote. In the main room option I set everything to on. I tried turning on and off various things like my dss receiver, hddvd player etc, and I'm watching my volt meter.. I never see any reading of 18volts at all, nothing. So, any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

hi
so pcm sound is accepted on its HDMI inputs. good
anyone knows if independent crossovers is an upgrade possible ?

as for xlr to rca one can use the Genelec DIA8 converter.

but i agree ideally connect the DENON too an XLR inputs amp like the SUNFIRE TGA for instance.

high end custom installers in France are starting to use this preamp in installations.

Did anyone ever find discrete power on/off codes for the A7100? That's the only reason I passed it by.

A bit late, but, when I set up my Harmony One remote, it just put a bunch of (generic?) Denon codes on, and there is a discrete on/off among them--tried it out a couple of times and it works. Still need to cull through the codes, and add a few to get things working well (have to remember to turn 7.1CH input off after using it because it won't change to any other input).

Been using mine for over a week, and really like it. Haven't tried much LPCM from my Pioneer Blu-ray, but, will do much more when my plasma comes. And, I haven't been able to get sound from my TiVoHD through HDMI, but, I'll need to play more.
Have been playing lots of records on my decks (Technics 1200MkIIs hooked through a Vestax PMC-07Pro TRS-->XLRM cable) just got the new Portishead limited box set. Certianly better than the XLR-RCA adapters hanging off my previous processor. And, now with 5.1 analogs I've been playing through some SACDs and DVD-As, which sound great.

Need to setup the trigger, and my other turntable (Rega P3 & phono preamp), and I'll still have a few inputs free (just wish there were more Toslink inputs).

(Hooked up with Monster Pro 0.5m XLRs to my Bryston 9B-ST-THX, to my PMC front channels (GB1s as R/L, and DB1Ci C), Blueroom Minipods as surrounds, and Rocket UFW-10 subwoofer.)

Been enjoying my A1700, so an update:
Finally hooked up the DC trigger. Just got a 2-pack of 1/8" miniplugs from Radio Shack, and took the previous two wire (old speaker cable) trigger cable from my amp and just threaded/twisted each lead on to the tip and sleeve of the plug, got my amp set right, and now all works. I just have main room and all components set to 'On'.
Just wish you could do some attenuation up, as my TiVo, and turntables come in low, but, the digital from my AirPort Express come in hot, so I don't have to keep a finger on the volume when switching between watching TV and listening to music (really detest the various Olympic announcers).
TiVo does work through HDMI--had a bad cable, but, am using Toslink so I can switch between audio sources without tripping HDMI-HDCP--even when using component (with external Zektor switch).
Also need to further troubleshoot my DLNA/UPnP on my Pioneer blu-ray player. Some of my recordings don't stream Dolby Digital correctly, or maybe the right audio sub-channel.
Otherwise for the money it's a great intro to LPCM--though I'm starting to think/look at 2-channel preamps to have more components connected and more functionality.

Another one bites the dust.

I got an Onkyo TX-NR906 and after all said and done, I prefer this little Denon. To me it just sounds more natural and unprocessed.

I couldn't get the Audyssey room correction to run, which would probably have improved the sound but would not have eliminated the slightly "processed" sound I heard.

I can certainly understand why folks really like the Onkyos but my ears still prefer the sound of this little Denon to anything else I've used. I am using a Velodyne SMS processor with it which tidies up the subs quite nicely and am using an HDMI switcher.

I'll be trying Emotiva's and Outlaw's new pre-pros when they come out but won't be surprised if the A7100 remains in the rack.

I can't compare to any other pre-pros, but I have been really happy with the performanace of my Denon A-7100. I've had it for about 1.5 years now and it has been flawless.

About the only thing I'd like is an on-screen display of volume when I change the volume. I can't easily see the display on the unit when I change the volume so an on-screen display would fix that. I find that I usually watch movies at about -20 although a recent improvement to the room acoustics has allowed me to increase that to -15 on most movies without being too loud. I find though that sicne I know that is a comfortable level, I like to make sure it is always at that level to begin with and then I adjust it up or down as necessary for the particular movie or audience.

What level do most of you run for volume?

Mine is connected through a snake to the amp closet where the main left and right and LFE channels go into a behringer DCX-2496 digital crossover. The crossover has two modes. In 2-channel mode, it feeds three amps for the main left and right channels for a triamped speaker system. In theatre mode, it feeds to two amps for the main L&R mids and tweeters and the LFE channel from the Denon is routed to the woofer amp.

The other 5 surround channels are sent through the snake to a Carver 125 watt x 5 THX amp for a grand total of just over 3000 watts. 1600 of that is going to the four 18" woofers, so the bottom end is pretty good.

About the only thing I'd like is an on-screen display of volume when I change the volume. I can't easily see the display on the unit when I change the volume so an on-screen display would fix that. I find that I usually watch movies at about -20 although a recent improvement to the room acoustics has allowed me to increase that to -15 on most movies without being too loud. I find though that sicne I know that is a comfortable level, I like to make sure it is always at that level to begin with and then I adjust it up or down as necessary for the particular movie or audience.

What level do most of you run for volume?


I've been finding that for shows with good sound design, I usually listen from -15 dB to -20 dB. Movies, blu-ray mostly, I'll go up close to 0 dB, depending on time of day and how forgiving I hope my neighbors are. I was up to -5 dB watching the 'Lobby Scene' in The Matrix which was great--but, I found I need to recalibrate my sub, and probably redo my Center as I now have it setting on my AV rack below my Plasma not on top of my CRT earlier--I couldn't feel the Gatling gun as before.

I just wish you could set levels/offsets for individual inputs. As I tend to flip on a game, or just flip through, but, want to listen to iTunes streaming to my Airport Express, or playing some vinyl on my Rega P3 (American announcers for Soccer can be excruciating;)). But, each one is +/- 10 dB from Airport to TV to Phono, and can get a bit jarring when switching back and forth. Switching to 7.1 direct inputs also need some attenuating too., or maybe try and program a -10 dB button?

Was planning to pull the trigger on one of these on Friday, but am concerned with the back and forth of "Yes it supports 7.1 PCM!" and "No it doesn't, it only supports 5.1 PCM!" on the boards.

As, technically speaking, 8-channel 192/24 LPCM should be supported by any HDMI 1.0 or above connection, there doesn't seem to be any reason why it wouldn't work, but as we all know, should do it and does do it are two incredibly different things, especially when it comes to HDMI-related audio.

This would be an upgrade from an old Rotel 5.1 Pre/Pro and, while I will always have that thing running for music-listening somewhere in my apartment, I really would like to have HDMI and 7.1 channel support in my media room.

With SA BR Players, HTPCs, and the PS3 all decoding TrueHD and DTS-MA and streaming PCM now, this processor looks like exactly what I'm looking for, but the inability to take a direct 7.1 PCM feed and send it to the appropriate speakers would definitely be a problem.

Anyone know for sure one way or the other?

Denon tech support (two different people) have told me on two occastions that it does support 7.1 PCM over HDMI.

Thanks! That's all I needed to know!

I have a DN-A7100 too, and is very happy. But regarding PCM 7.1 (I have only PS3 with a 5.1 speaker set now), I´m pretty sure from memory that it says 5.1 PCM in the manual...Where it also says 7.1 from analog inputs etc.

So I guess that makes me wonder too about 7.1 PCM. Maybe someone actually tried a movie or music Blu-ray with proper 7.1 TrueHD sound if it actually really plays 7.1 PCM?!

I can't compare to any other pre-pros, but I have been really happy with the performanace of my Denon A-7100. I've had it for about 1.5 years now and it has been flawless.

I find that I usually watch movies at about -20 although a recent improvement to the room acoustics has allowed me to increase that to -15 on most movies without being too loud. I find though that sicne I know that is a comfortable level, I like to make sure it is always at that level to begin with and then I adjust it up or down as necessary for the particular movie or audience.

What level do most of you run for volume?



i have had my unit for about a 1.5 years as well and like you am very pleased with it.

i am currently using a level for -13 for movies and -19 for "tv" based content. i try to run my system at optimal/accurate gain levels, but their are a lot of variables in my signal chain. i output my front 3 channels to a behringer dcx 2496 for crossover and eq'ing and then into a qsc hpr 122i's which are powered speakers with adjustable levels as well.

i have had my unit for about a 1.5 years as well and like you am very pleased with it.

i am currently using a level for -13 for movies and -19 for "tv" based content. i try to run my system at optimal/accurate gain levels, but their are a lot of variables in my signal chain. i output my front 3 channels to a behringer dcx 2496 for crossover and eq'ing and then into a qsc hpr 122i's which are powered speakers with adjustable levels as well.

That is interesting. I run my main left and right out to inputs A and B of a DCX2496 digital crossover as well. I also run the .1 LFE channel to input C of the DCX. I have two 18" subwoofers in a gigantic horn-loaded concrete box on each side. The mids are handled by a line array of 5.5" Vifa drivers and I have a Vifa ring radiator tweeter on each side. If I am listening to two channel music, I run the woofers, mids and tweeters as three way systems. If I am listening to a movie, then I run the mids and tweeters as two way systems, and the 18" woofers are driven off the .1 LFE channel. The DCX changes the routing very nicely.

There is a Crown K2 on the woofers (800 wpc), an AB systems power amp on the mids (~375 wpc) and a 60wpc chip amp that I built on the tweeters.

Absolutely love this thing. Thanks for the advice and info!

I think I'm going to need your help again though, as the manual doesn't address a problem I'm having.

Is there a way to use a different input for sound while using the HDMI for video? I'm getting some goofiness in how my HTPC is outputting sound (can only get 2-channel via HDMI) and would rather use the optical digital output from my old soundcard for music listening anyway, but if I switch off the HDMI input to the Digital Coax in, I lose the video feed on the HDMI. There are other workarounds for this, but it'd be nice if I could use the HDMI for video, the optical out from for general audio, and allow an exclusive application to use the HDMI for audio when it needs it.

Essentially, what I'm asking, is can an HDMI input be used for video while using an optical digital input for audio?

Yes there is.. when I first got this pre-amp I was using my Oppo DVD player with the DVI output for video (before I purchased my Sony PS3)... using a DVI to HDMI adapter, and then configured that HDMI port to use audio from an optical port. I'm not home, but it was in the menu where you assign HDMI inputs etc... bottom line it did it so it can be done.

That reminds me...

If you are using HDMI to feed the video to your projector, you will find that the on-screen-display doesn't work over HDMI so I found it extremely helpful to temporarily hook up a small TV via the S-video outs just to get the on-screen-display for setup. The menu structure became much more clear after I did that.

I have one of these but haven't been using it lately. I got an Onkyo after I couldn't find out how to route the center channel of the A7100 to the front left and right speakers. Has anyone been able to do this? I'm thinking of going back to the A7100 but if I can't route the center to the mains I can't because I have no center channel speaker, and I don't want one right now.

I have one of these but haven't been using it lately. I got an Onkyo after I couldn't find out how to route the center channel of the A7100 to the front left and right speakers. Has anyone been able to do this? I'm thinking of going back to the A7100 but if I can't route the center to the mains I can't because I have no center channel speaker, and I don't want one right now.

Have you tried turning off the center channel in the menu. Usually that will redirect the Center to the L/R.

Yes, that was the first thing I tried but it didn't work, strangely enough! What's the point of having an option to turn it off and not redirect to the mains?? Can you try it for me? Turn it off and see if the voices come out the L and R fronts!!

Everyone seems to be talking about having had it confirmed by tech support that this receiver will do 5.1 and 7.1 over HDMI.

I can tell you that I have just tested the A7100 and can catagorically confirm that this amp DOES NOT receive anything higher than 5.1 over HDMI. The only way that you can get 7.1 audio passed to your surround backs over HDMI is by feeding a 5.1 pcm stream through HDMI to the receiver and enabling dolby EX on the unit. This is essentially an upmix and is not a discreet mix at all.

So, to answer the people asking if it will or willnot, and to confirm to the people who have been told that it will but have no 7.1 material to test it with -

This machine will NOT take 7.1 over HDMI. If Tech Support have told you otherwise, you have been misled.

Thanks for the definitive answer. I have another issue...when outputting PCM via HDMI, I can't seem to adjust the individual speaker adjustments (like +/- 1 dB). It will adjust when it bitstream, but not when it is converted to PCM by the player. Anyone have similar issues?

Everyone seems to be talking about having had it confirmed by tech support that this receiver will do 5.1 and 7.1 over HDMI.

I can tell you that I have just tested the A7100 and can catagorically confirm that this amp DOES NOT receive anything higher than 5.1 over HDMI. The only way that you can get 7.1 audio passed to your surround backs over HDMI is by feeding a 5.1 pcm stream through HDMI to the receiver and enabling dolby EX on the unit. This is essentially an upmix and is not a discreet mix at all.

So, to answer the people asking if it will or willnot, and to confirm to the people who have been told that it will but have no 7.1 material to test it with -

This machine will NOT take 7.1 over HDMI. If Tech Support have told you otherwise, you have been misled.

Well, using DVE Essentials the "Pink Noise Frequency Sweep" with my Blu-Ray player, Pioneer Elite BDP-94HD set for LPCM conversion it does use the rear surrounds (as a set not individual, i.e. 6.1 [mono] not 7.1 [stereo]) and sound does come out of them. I'll need to check with the few 7.1 Blu-Ray discs I have, Dark City, Hellboy II and Nightmare Before Christmas. I had all speakers turned on in the menu, and was in "Auto Surround" mode. I didn't check to see if the appropriate icon was lit, the PCM icon was lit.
I just set things up for 7.1, got 5 channels of PMC (http://www.pmc-speakers.com/product.php?mode=view&pid=199), and using my old surrounds as rear surrounds.

Well, I tried with Hellboy II, but, I also didn't get anything from the rears until I used the 'EX/ES' surround setup. But, when streaming MPEG-2 transport streams off my Blu-ray Player (a TS file recorded off my Cable box) I would have to manually enable Dolby Digital so it's unclear if I'm enabling full surround or just adding it--the manual isn't quite clear, and since I got 6.1 from the DVE disk in 'Auto Surround' I'm still confused. My other problem is I'm not sure my Blu-Ray player, a Pioneer BDP-94HD, can output 7.1 LPCM so...

Thanks for the definitive answer. I have another issue...when outputting PCM via HDMI, I can't seem to adjust the individual speaker adjustments (like +/- 1 dB). It will adjust when it bitstream, but not when it is converted to PCM by the player. Anyone have similar issues?

DVD/SACD or Blu-Ray? I usually do setup without anything running through--just using the test tones--and adjust with my Digital Radio Shack SPL meter. I did check running through the various audio tests on my DVE Blu-Ray disk output as LPCM and they were fairly close, the rears came out a bit high.

I am ready to purchase an Arcam AVP700 (cheap pre-owned nowadays) when I stumbled upon this model. Anybody can confirm if this Denon excel in 2-channel stereo listening? against the Arcam AVP700? I will use the pre-pro 80% music, 20% movie viewing.

Just want to get my feet wet with the HT multi-channel capability of these prepros with balanced XLR outputs. I already have the powered speakers, just need a processor in this price range.

Can someone tell me if this optical output or pass through is absolutely unaffected by the unit itself?
I want to use this unit separately from our cinema system , BUT at the same time.
I need the optical in/out to be a clean pass through unaffected by the unit , but allowing me to harvest center channel information that is coming into it optically via the balanced XLR outputs at the same time.
Thanks.

There is a pure direct mode that bypasses any processing (tone control, bass management).

Do you know if the default setting is the pure direct mode?

Thanks...

Do you know if the default setting is the pure direct mode?

Thanks...

the answer is no. you will need to select pure direct which isn't hard as there is a dedicated button on the unit and on the remote.

Thanks -one LAST question....
In pure direct mode, will I still have access [via the bal. XLR outputs] of the individual LCR incoming program material..
Thanks

Thanks -one LAST question....
In pure direct mode, will I still have access [via the bal. XLR outputs] of the individual LCR incoming program material..
Thanks

Yes.

Having used the A7100 for the last 6 months I can say it does not disappoint in stereo or 5.1. I'm using Swan F2.2HT speakers and Hypex UcD monoblock amps and it is not out of place with this gear. :)

Can someone tell me if the Denon upsamples all incoming pcm to 24/192? If this is not by default, is there some setting to enable it?

It would seem a pity if it cannot upsample since it has no less than eight 24/192 DACs, one per channel.

First off, I still absolutely adore my A7100. It seems like the sound just gets better and better over time.

I recently decided that the time had come to stop physically turning my power amps off and on and figured I would use the 12V Trigger to power them off and on, so I picked up a Panamax M8-HT-PRO (http://www.panamax.com/Products/Floor-Models/M8-HT-PRO.aspx) power strip to use with the Denon to power it off and on and a 3.5 Mono Cable to connect the two. Now plugs 5-8 turn off when the cable is connected, but do not turn back on when the Denon is on. I went into the Menu and switched it to enable and set "ON" for all of the different inputs, but still no dice.

What am I doing wrong here?

First off, I still absolutely adore my A7100. It seems like the sound just gets better and better over time.

I recently decided that the time had come to stop physically turning my power amps off and on and figured I would use the 12V Trigger to power them off and on, so I picked up a Panamax M8-HT-PRO (http://www.panamax.com/Products/Floor-Models/M8-HT-PRO.aspx) power strip to use with the Denon to power it off and on and a 3.5 Mono Cable to connect the two. Now plugs 5-8 turn off when the cable is connected, but do not turn back on when the Denon is on. I went into the Menu and switched it to enable and set "ON" for all of the different inputs, but still no dice.

What am I doing wrong here?

Works just fine turning on my Bryston 9B-ST-THX 5-channel amp, but, I only have it connected to it's one trigger. You might check to see what kind of trigger the Panamax expects. If it just needs a pulse, or a constant charge, and what voltage/current it needs?
I've also got all my inputs set to "on", and it's always worked. My problem is I'm thinking of adding monoblocks, or a second amp (for my 6th and 7th channels) and need to figure out how to add a second trigger.

Is anyone still using this unit? I'm retiring mine after three years of dutiful service. I'm moving on to Onkyo processor.

I'm still using mine. Let me if you want to get rid of it cheap.

I still use mine just about every day. It works great and sounds great.

I absolutely love this thing and don't see myself ever retiring it. I may move it off the main system and into another room (like I did with my older Rotel), but now that I've got the HTPC properly decoding internally, this unit is perfect for my setup.

This baby is still it for me. I've tried some very good receivers this year and a couple of times I thought I would keep them but it always comes down to the center channel dialog. There's always something about it that bugs me on other units after a while. Always pleased when I hook this little Denon back up.

I have one of these units and am very pleased with it.

A few questions though:

1. I cannot find any download links for updated firmware even though I've read that such firmware exists. Is there updated firmware?

2. I cannot figure out how to switch between a simple stereo setup and a 4.0 setup. I currently only have 4 speakers and do not wish to use the full 7.1 setup.

3. Is there a programming interface for PC via the RS232 port? Is there supported software? I cannot find documentation for anything like this.

Any and all information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Howdy....not aware of any update.

In the menu go to speaker setup,
If you don't have a sub, set sub for no.
Set FRONT L/R to small or large depending on sub
Set CENTER to NONE
Set SURROUND L/R to small or large
Set SURR. BACK to NONE

Then choose whichever modes you like on the remote.

I can't believe I've just found out about this. Glad to see so many owners on this thread. Hopefully someone can answer this. I have a somewhat unusual setup in that my Panasonic plasma is nearly a decade old, works great, but does not have HDMI input. On my Harmon Kardon, I input blu-ray via HDMI, and output to component. It's a bit tricky, and I'm told many models can't do that. So, can this one?

Also, does it have a room correction feature?

I can't believe I've just found out about this. Glad to see so many owners on this thread. Hopefully someone can answer this. I have a somewhat unusual setup in that my Panasonic plasma is nearly a decade old, works great, but does not have HDMI input. On my Harmon Kardon, I input blu-ray via HDMI, and output to component. It's a bit tricky, and I'm told many models can't do that. So, can this one?

Also, does it have a room correction feature?

Wow, I was not aware of any Receiver/Processor that would ignore the HDMI security and can actually output 'analog' from an HDMI input. I do know that the Denon does not output from HDMI to component -- it's in the manual that you can only go from component/composite/S-Video to HDMI, not the other way around.
I just used HDMI for blu-ray audio and then sent component to my HDTV which worked fine.
And, no room correction, just standard levels, cross-overs and speaker distances for each channel.

[QUOTE=Davide-NYC;20560782]I have one of these units and am very pleased with it.

Is there a programming interface for PC via the RS232 port? Is there supported software? I cannot find documentation for anything like this.

QUOTE]

PC control is also something I'm very interested in. Ethernet would be ideal.

Has anyone tried using the RS232 control? Is there a newer/better pre/pro product with good PC control?