KX250F,

If you were able to boost sub 20hz performance on the F113 assumably with a manual equalizer, how do you think the two would compare?


Jim,

I've tried that with my F113, but the sub's built in limiters minimized the impact. Haven't compared them side by side, but I don't think there is anything to be done that would allow the F113 to have as much output down low as the SubMersive.

Here you go.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3305.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3299.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3301.jpg

Frack!!!! :eek: What size is your room? That is a great setup for sure!:)

I've only had the Submersives up and running for only a week. I have literally only watched 2 movies (Transformers 2 & Valkire), and some clips from Kung Fu Panda, Blade II, and the Hulk (New one). I have used KFP, and Blade II as demos for friends for a long time so I know these two very well on my system. Using the three movies mentioned I noticed more similarities between the Submersive's and JL's than differences. I think both excel in this part of the audio spectrum, however the Submersive seems to have more of it and does not need to be cranked up so much.

I did a brief stint with a pair of Epik Dynasty's before getting the Submersive's. It took me about two weeks to get them in a spot where I was starting to get happy with them, but there was always something still missing compared to the JL's. In the end I think it was the design of the Dynasty being ported and maybe the bigger driver. I think I had become so used to the JL's and there (Signature sound) over the 2 years of owning them that nothing else would do.

Now I had a decision to make. The JL's where sold and gone, do I get two more F113's, two F212's or try two or three Submersives. You see my decision.

Now where it took me two weeks with the Dynasty's to get them in a spot where I was happy it took me about two minutes with the Submersives. I pretty much unpacked two of them and put them in the same spots I had the JL's. The third was not used at first since I had planned on using it in the back of the room where Mark had suggested and probably will end up. I used Aydussey to get my distance settings and thats it we where off and running. The first movie I put in was Kung Fu Panda, I went through the couple of scenes that I usually watch. Now I don't have a mirror in my theater but I'm sure if did I could see myself smiling:) or maybe it was more like this:eek: I don't know.

I know I didn't really answer your question directly. All I know is that the JL F113 is a awesome sub, and I feel it's major flaw is that it doesn't do the low stuff below 20hz. This was my main reason for wanting to get rid of the JL's, I used to use them on two channel but since I got my Aerials in March the JL's where no longer needed to two channel and where for movie duty only. At that point I told myself I want to try something different and the search for a replacement began. The Submersive is everything the JL is above 20hz but with more headroom, and it does do the stuff below 20hz. For me and my setup this makes it the perfect match and now my sub search is over.

Hi There i have seen you mentioned epiks, how come you did not check out the paradigm sub 25 or the sub 2? I am down to 2 subs either the submersive or the sub 25 and maybe even the sub 2.

I see you got 3 submersive and you had 2 fathoms, why did you go with 3 in stead of 2? i will be getting a house next year and i think i will be coying your set up lol for my theater room.

Looking for some more final answers for my decision.

Here you go.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3305.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3299.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/PYLESBUCKET/IMG_3301.jpg

:eek:Wow, nice set up:D

KX250F,

If you were able to boost sub 20hz performance on the F113 assumably with a manual equalizer, how do you think the two would compare?

Jim,

I've tried that with my F113, but the sub's built in limiters minimized the impact. Haven't compared them side by side, but I don't think there is anything to be done that would allow the F113 to have as much output down low as the SubMersive.

I actually asked JL's head of tech support about boosting the infrasonics with EQ before I decided to move from my F112's to the Submersives. He said exactly what bfreedma said: won't work. It's basically what made my decision for me.

Otherwise, I feel exactly the same about my departed F112's as KX250F feels about his departed F113's. They were great subs with excellent sound quality. For music, I had never heard anything better. I said all this a little over a month ago:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877&highlight=craig+john&page=78

Craig

Frack!!!! :eek: What size is your room? That is a great setup for sure!:)

The dimensions are 14.5W x 22.5L x 8.0H.

Hi There i have seen you mentioned epiks, how come you did not check out the paradigm sub 25 or the sub 2? I am down to 2 subs either the submersive or the sub 25 and maybe even the sub 2.

I see you got 3 submersive and you had 2 fathoms, why did you go with 3 in stead of 2? i will be getting a house next year and i think i will be coying your set up lol for my theater room.

Looking for some more final answers for my decision.

Kenshin I considered the Paradigm before really decideding on the Submersives and I tried talking to a couple of dealers, but they acted like they had the next best thing since slice bread and weren't cutting me much of a deal.

As far as 3 Submersives over 2. My Denon processor has three independent subwoofer outputs so I fiqure might as well use all of them. It also helped that when I talked to Mark Seaton that he felt that a third sub in the back of the room would help smooth things out. I don't currently have it setup that way because I need to remove my projector and get up in the rafters to run a cable back there. Hopefully I can get this done over the Thanksgiving Holidays when I have time off.

I cannot give you any direct comparisons between the Paradigm and the Submersive. I have never seen or heard the Paradigm but I'm sure it is in the league of the Submersive and JL Fathom's, but at a much higher premium $$$$. Only you can decide which is best for your application and wallet.

... Please don't be afraid to crank your SubMersive's gain knobs up on the high side...

So, how high up do you have the gain on your SubM set? Mine is at -10.

So, how high up do you have the gain on your SubM set? Mine is at -10.

Ok, well first off as you know , my settings are not good in any room but mine. I don't wanna read no posts like... "My SubMersive blew up , its James' fault!" :p

Anyhow my SubMersive's gain is at 8 , and Audyssey in my Onkyo TX-SR805 is at -4db. I also have a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 which has been put thru the automatic calibration a few times to be sure everything was done right. In the speaker levels I run the SubMersive hot around 6-8db .

The results are superb, I am very happy with my SubMersive. One of my favorite things is when I have something on TV, I am not necessarily watching it and may be in another room. But here and there a bass note hits that you can feel. I try and listen for more and nothing, there might have been a tiny bass note in a commercial or something but its cool because you listen further and you'd swear the SubMersive is off .. I go on doing whatever it is I am doing and a half hour later I feel another nice bass note.
If you have ever felt the tiny tremors that come before an earthquake that is kinda what it is like. :-)

As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db , I wanted to add something.... it absolutely does not sound that hot..............that is the high sound quality of the SubMersive talking. ;):cool:

You run lesser subwoofers hot and they get to rumbling , rumbling, rumbling , on and on and on....they get on your nerves and you turn the gain down to 20% cause you've heard all you want to hear from it.:p

I just had my new JM Labs center installed last night. Since this is not a JM Labs forum I will only say I love it and finally having a matching center is great. I have known this dealer for a number of years. He was at this one store I used to go to a long time ago. Any way,

I wanted to give him a just a quick demo of the dynamics of my system. I first played the open scene of The Dark Knight. I put it up to -16db. It sounded great. I looked over at him and I could telll that he was digging it. The bass just filled the room. I gave him the particulars about the sub also. Then I said, "do you really want to see what this thing can do?" So I broke out WOTW. I played the Lightning scene. He was impressed. Then I jumped to the big scene that starts with the rumble in the streets. When it started he said, "man, that is low". That is the first person who actually said that they knew that it was going very low. Then the fun parts started and his face was a Holy Crap sort of a face. I told him how low I was getting in my room. I think he was impressed.

Anyhow my SubMersive's gain is at 8 , and Audyssey in my Onkyo TX-SR805 is at -4db. I also have a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 which has been put thru the automatic calibration a few times to be sure everything was done right. In the speaker levels I run the SubMersive hot around 6-8db .

Thanks, James. Your values are actually no so diff from mine: my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)

[QUOTE=James W. Johnson;17425791]As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db /QUOTE]

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?

[QUOTE=James W. Johnson;17425791]As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db /QUOTE]

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?

The gain #'s on the SubM are the # of dB below the max gain. Therefore 6 is actually -6 below the max gain. As said, I have mine set at -10.

KX250F: How is the difference between the submersives and the two Dynasty's you had?

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?



Yes , I cannot say I know the exact correction . I think its 3db or so no?
So in reality the sub is hot 9-11db .

Do you happen to know what frequency the test tones on the Onkyo 805 ore ?

KX250F: How is the difference between the submersives and the two Dynasty's you had?


Good to see Hksvr4.

Well the Dynasty's had all the down low a man could ask for, but I was having two issues. First was placement so they didn't sound so boomy. Secondly I just couldn't get them to sound the way my JL's did in the mid-bass area. On movies with fight scenes the punches just didn't hit me in the chest like the JL's and now the Submersives do. Another example would be gun fire scenes in the new Hulk.

As I noted in a post yesterday, I feel that over the 2 years owning the JL's I had become accustomed to the sound of a sealed sub in my room. I think the Dynasty is a good sub by all means, but it didn't quite give me what I wanted in my particular setup.

Just so I don't sound bias I do have a Epik Valor sealed sub that I use in a second theater in my house. I have owned it since November 2007 and my 15 year old son and I have pounded the $hit out of that thing while playing video games and it has taken the abuse. Great little sub and what do you know it's a sealed design.

... my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)

With these settings, my sub is just marginally above the other speakers, maybe 1 to 2 dB (measured with the usual SPL meter and the 805's test tones). This is personal preference, of course.

I note that I also run Audyssey MultEQ XT (from the Onk 805) and then use the SMS-1 to make modest modifications from there.

Good to see Hksvr4.

Well the Dynasty's had all the down low a man could ask for, but I was having two issues. First was placement so they didn't sound so boomy. Secondly I just couldn't get them to sound the way my JL's did in the mid-bass area. On movies with fight scenes the punches just didn't hit me in the chest like the JL's and now the Submersives do. Another example would be gun fire scenes in the new Hulk.

As I noted in a post yesterday, I feel that over the 2 years owning the JL's I had become accustomed to the sound of a sealed sub in my room. I think the Dynasty is a good sub by all means, but it didn't quite give me what I wanted in my particular setup.

Just so I don't sound bias I do have a Epik Valor sealed sub that I use in a second theater in my house. I have owned it since November 2007 and my 15 year old son and I have pounded the $hit out of that thing while playing video games and it has taken the abuse. Great little sub and what do you know it's a sealed design.

That's what another user said about the Dynasty. He's comming off the Ultra13. The Ultra had the punch the Dynasty was missing. The Submersive has the best of both worlds. This makes me want the Submersive. I perfer the punch bass any day.

Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.

Hi Jeratt,

I apologize for the delayed response. Things have been quite crazy here, particularly as I'm prepping our new office/warehouse (http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3740510#1) to receive many parts for SubMersives next week (http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3364736#1). Lead times for most all SubMersive finishes will be much shorter by the end of next week. :cool:

You will see a response tonight or tomorrow.

Hi Mark, any word on this yet? Hope I'm not being pushy but my pockets are burning I don't know how much longer I can be strong for lol ;)

Originally Posted by millerwill
.. my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)



With these settings, my sub is just marginally above the other speakers, maybe 1 to 2 dB (measured with the usual SPL meter and the 805's test tones). This is personal preference, of course.

I note that I also run Audyssey MultEQ XT (from the Onk 805) and then use the SMS-1 to make modest modifications from there.




Your talking to yourself bro , id recommend that you go see a psychiatrist.:p

Hi Mark, any word on this yet? Hope I'm not being pushy but my pockets are burning I don't know how much longer I can be strong for lol ;)

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come. ;)

Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.

I sense a little SubMersive envy in your post. :p Sell that Dragon and put that money towards a real subwoofer such as a SubMersive. :p ;)

Your talking to yourself bro , id recommend that you go see a psychiatrist.:p

Thought it might be useful info for some; obviously not for you, who seems to know everything already.

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come. ;)

Ok thx James, encouraging words do help, I'll hang in there man. Took me a while to save up the dough so now that I have enough I wanna pull the trigger before some unforeseen badluck strikes and I end up needing it for something not nearly as cool as a new Sub lol *knocking on wood*

I sense a little SubMersive envy in your post. :p Sell that Dragon and put that money towards a real subwoofer such as a SubMersive. :p ;)

Who says that a SubMersive is better than the Dragon in his room? Are you a Submersive expert?

Bill

Gee I didn't think I sounded envious . I am very happy with my Dragon. I am sure the Submersive is nice and all but I really like my Dragon, if I wanted more output I could always get another Dragon.

Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.

Since I've had the Valor I've never put it in my theater and listened to it to be honest with you. I know in the second theater it sounds very good and punchy as well as loud. This game room as I call it is just a medium sized bedroom converted into a theater, it is less than half the size of my theater. My theater is in the basement so pretty much all the wall are concrete except the long wall to the right. Obviously the floor is concrete as well. The gaming theater is on the fourth floor of the house (Think Loft) so all wood floors, and walls. The Valor really connects with the room up there, but I think in the basement the Valor would struggle.

I don't feel I could really give you a honest comparison. The one thing I will say though is that the Valor was good but it always sounded boxy. I never got this impression with the JL's or now with the Submersives, but it also cost 1/4 the price of a Submersive and 1/7 the price of a F113.

The Dragon as well as the other Epiks look like very formidable subs, but I gotta tell you these Submersive's are growing on me each day.

If your happy with the Dragon then that's all that matters, and if it's getting the job done for you now I really see no sense in moving up to a Dynasty. I personally would stick with a sealed design no matter who the manufacturer is.

I have a question I'd like to pose to my fellow Submersive enthusiast.

Which manufacturer do you think will be the first to imitate the Seaton Sound Submersive. Personally I think it's going to come from someone eventually.

As a example. Take the Toyota Prius, the best selling Hybrid since hybrids came out. Now look at the new Honda Insight. From a distance you can barely tell them apart.

We all know the saying "Imitation is the highest form of flatter".

So who do you guys think will "flatter" the Submersive first.

I think it will be one of the name brand speaker companies like Polk or Klipsch.


I'm just doing this out of good fun so don't nobody go getting there panties up in a bunch.

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come. ;)

Whooo Hoooo, my order is offically in. Can't wait:D:D:D

Who says that a SubMersive is better than the Dragon in his room? Are you a Submersive expert?

Bill

I am not just a SubMersive expert but a bass expert, thanks for asking.

Thought it might be useful info for some; obviously not for you, who seems to know everything already.

Seems ? Its not your imagination, because yes indeed I do know everything. ;)

Whooo Hoooo, my order is offically in. Can't wait:D:D:D

Congrats, I look forward to hearing your impressions when you get it. :cool:

Next.;):cool::D

Next.;):cool::D

that's when this smiley comes in handy http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee42/sub-woofer/bruce.gif

Seems ? Its not your imagination, because yes indeed I do know everything. ;)

An old proverb says: "A wise man never knows all. Only fools know everything." ;)

Congrats, I look forward to hearing your impressions when you get it. :cool:


Thx man, I can't wait. I too look forward to droping my impressions when I get it.

An old proverb says: "A wise man never knows all. Only fools know everything." ;)
:p


While on the subject on what a wise man says............


"Hard work never killed anybody" But why take the risk ! :p

Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak. :p

Whooo Hoooo, my order is offically in. Can't wait:D:D:D

Congrats. It will be worth the wait. I know mine was :).

The more time I have to think about this, the worse! putting $2k in a Roth right about now turns into a truckload of cash when I'm old enough to retire... =D

I know you're busy Mark - and all of us here are glad you've got crazy good business. Hope the new place is working out great for you.

The more time I have to think about this, the worse! putting $2k in a Roth right about now turns into a truckload of cash when I'm old enough to retire... =D

I know you're busy Mark - and all of us here are glad you've got crazy good business. Hope the new place is working out great for you.

the wife put her foot down didn't she :p

the wife put her foot down didn't she :p

lol!:p

No - she hasn't =D But fair enough to ask.

We've actually got one on the way (not talking about a speaker here) so...

for those still contemplating about getting the submersive, just imagine a product that u'll love more & more over time... these babes really do grow on u. I have only 1 but can imagine that having at least 2 would be purrrrfect!! :D

Anyone in the Edmonton, AB area have one of these beasts? After reading all this extremely positive feedback, I'd love to experience one first hand.:)

I have only 1 but can imagine that having at least 2 would be purrrrfect!! :D

or 3 ...... or 4 ......or ???? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

or 3 ...... or 4 ......or ???? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

y not? :p

I would love to add another pair to my HT. I just might.

John

or 3 ...... or 4 ......or ???? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Audioguy, don't be bashful ,we all know you really are Dr Evil and plan to shake the world to its destruction and ransom the world for 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

http://www.canpages.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dr-evil.jpg

I just want to know what you are going to call your evil plan?:D

Whooo Hoooo, my order is offically in. Can't wait:D:D:D

got my dual SubMersive order in today also
now do I sell my velo HGS-18 THX or add it to the mix - there are 3 outputs on my sm-1 :D

just have to pick out new pre/pro and new FP and settle in for Canadian
winter

got my dual SubMersive order in today also
now do I sell my velo HGS-18 THX or add it to the mix - there are 3 outputs on my sm-1 :D

just have to pick out new pre/pro and new FP and settle in for Canadian
winter

sell the HGS-18, save a bit more and get a third submersive. That way your third output wont get lonely and it wont have subwoofer envy:p

Hey guys, I have been playing around for a while with my placement and not finding alot of variance in the frequency response. Given that the total area I am moving around in is only about a 3X4 rectangular area, I am not surprised. It does sound great in the corner loaded position.....However, I am still confused as to where I should run the "attenuation" knob on the back. I am at full clockwise now. I also have no idea what the buttons that say PGM SEL and CH1 actually do. In or out?

chuck,

It doesn't sound like you have a SPL meter. You need one to know where to set the gain level on your sub and receiver.

Hey guys, I have been playing around for a while with my placement and not finding alot of variance in the frequency response. Given that the total area I am moving around in is only about a 3X4 rectangular area, I am not surprised. It does sound great in the corner loaded position.....However, I am still confused as to where I should run the "attenuation" knob on the back. I am at full clockwise now. I also have no idea what the buttons that say PGM SEL and CH1 actually do. In or out?

The PROT light means protection circuitry engaged (red LED) in most instances it automatically re-sets (LED goes off) in a few seconds if it does engage.

CLIP light is a nominal indicator that starts to flash a little prior to clipping. It is not uncommon during higher playback to have this light flash, especially in scenes with very deep bass content at high levels. Most consumer electronics don't have clip indicators as ignorance tends to be bliss in this regard. Sub amps without the light clip just the same or even more. :rolleyes:

Too much is defined by when you start hearing foul noises or "grumbling" complaints from the SubMersive. Other than possibly minutes of continuous VLF sine wave input, you shouldn't be able to hurt anything. If you keep pushing far enough past any audible cues, you might find the point where it calls a time out and the red PROT LED comes on. While that's a rather rare occurrence with SubMersives having serial numbers starting with an 8 or higher, you will at some point get there if you keep turning things up. No, I don't recommend trying to find it.

If you look directly above "CH1" it says mute, and that is all the button does. It is primarily for troubleshooting and during OEM programming (same with the PS-2 connector which looks like an S-Video connection).

PGM SEL determines which of 2 DSP programs are loaded at power up. Pressing this button while the SubMersive is on has no effect. The DSP program will not change until the power is turned off (all LEDs go off), and powered back on. Please leave this in the depressed position. The raised position has a slightly different limiter setting I left myself as an option (frequency response and gain is identical), but at this point I don't recommend this setting. Again, all buttons should be left in their depressed positions.

John

Hey guys, I have been playing around for a while with my placement and not finding alot of variance in the frequency response. Given that the total area I am moving around in is only about a 3X4 rectangular area, I am not surprised. It does sound great in the corner loaded position.....However, I am still confused as to where I should run the "attenuation" knob on the back. I am at full clockwise now. I also have no idea what the buttons that say PGM SEL and CH1 actually do. In or out?

both buttons should be IN .

How did you guys get information on the Seaton Submersive let alone place an order. I sent a few e-mails but got no reply. Is there a website where you can get the specs and place an order?

Thanks.

How did you guys get information on the Seaton Submersive let alone place an order. I sent a few e-mails but got no reply. Is there a website where you can get the specs and place an order?

Thanks.

Seaton Sound Central (http://seatonsound.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3364736)

John

i cant believe you guys are getting multiple submersives, i have a decent sized room and one is plenty, i mean wall shaking plenty

i cant believe you guys are getting multiple submersives, i have a decent sized room and one is plenty, i mean wall shaking plenty

it's probably more to smooth response than getting more volume

plus with more headroom you can go a bit lower with EQ

Seaton Sound Central (http://seatonsound.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3364736)

John

Thanks John!

got my dual SubMersive order in today also
now do I sell my velo HGS-18 THX or add it to the mix - there are 3 outputs on my sm-1 :D

just have to pick out new pre/pro and new FP and settle in for Canadian
winter

Hmmm...let me know if you willing to sell the HGS-18 for cheap. I just picked up one but having a spare one never hurts :)

I almost went with the Submersive but the HGS matches my other speakers better and was cheaper too since it was used.

How low does the Submersive go? Does it have drives on both sides of the box? Just curious.

Just wondering what levels do you guys keep your gains at on your Submersives? Man I can't wait till mine shows up. The more I read here the more pumped I'm getting. Hope mine makes the Nov.3rd shipment. Who knows maybe if I'm lucky I'll have mine here by next Fri.

i cant believe you guys are getting multiple submersives, i have a decent sized room and one is plenty, i mean wall shaking plenty

I've been wanting matching dual sealed subs for long time - since moving to much larger area- close to 5000 cubic feet including spill space.
Velodyne makes fantastic high end subs just incredible expensive and tough to get in Canada. My dual Submersives shipped cheaper than one dd-18
This is my first major purchase without audition but i've yet to see anything negative posted in 3 years with these subs

For Halloween last night I watched a blu-ray I recently picked up... 'Shaun of the Dead', the reason I am posting this is the SubMersive thread is because this BD has tons of fun bass on it :cool: , I highly recommend this blu-ray disc to all of my fellow SubMersive owners!!!

While on this subject, would all SubMersive owners please list a blu-ray or 2 that is alot of fun with a SubMersive. :cool:

James,

Shaun of the dead is a fun surprise for audio, as the movie is a lot of fun if you like the writing team's style of dry humor. If you haven't watched the team's second entry in a planned "trilogy" Hot Fuzz yet, do pick it up, as it's another comedy that isn't shy with the LFE. I'm plenty curious to see what we get from the 3rd entry The World's End when it comes out next year. I do find that Hot Fuzz is much more enjoyable after having been recently primed from watching Shaun of the Dead.

Enjoy

Looking for a little advice ....

My system is productive down to about 30 hz. below which things go south quickly. My room is of decent size (24' x 24' x almost 8') although the system is in one half of the room. If sub 30 hz. is my problem, would I be better served by a submersive or a terraform? I assume the latter, but is it available and although I checked 'Seaton Sound Central' I see no pricing inormation. Thx!

James,

Shaun of the dead is a fun surprise for audio, as the movie is a lot of fun if you like the writing team's style of dry humor. If you haven't watched the team's second entry in a planned "trilogy" Hot Fuzz yet, do pick it up, as it's another comedy that isn't shy with the LFE. I'm plenty curious to see what we get from the 3rd entry The World's End when it comes out next year. I do find that Hot Fuzz is much more enjoyable after having been recently primed from watching Shaun of the Dead.

Enjoy

Hot Fuzz has insane low end - was so unexpected when first viewed film

James,

Shaun of the dead is a fun surprise for audio, as the movie is a lot of fun if you like the writing team's style of dry humor. If you haven't watched the team's second entry in a planned "trilogy" Hot Fuzz yet, do pick it up, as it's another comedy that isn't shy with the LFE. I'm plenty curious to see what we get from the 3rd entry The World's End when it comes out next year. I do find that Hot Fuzz is much more enjoyable after having been recently primed from watching Shaun of the Dead.

Enjoy

I just bought 'Hot Fuzz' and pre-ordered 'The Hangover' from Amazon yesterday, thanks for the tip and letting me know about the trilogy. Have you seen anything else from Simon Pegg (Shaun) and Edgar Wright?

Don't give me any spoilers but how do these 3 film relate to where they become a Trilogy? Or perhaps most of their works are mainly British stuff?

Ive got my SubMersive set to -8 and -4dB in Audyssey , twice during Shaun of the Dead I went in and lowered it a dB and it sounded like -2dB did nothing. :D

I had seen 'Shaun of the Dead' on DVD before but I have never seen 'Hot Fuzz' , I look forward to it. :cool:

Hot Fuzz has insane low end - was so unexpected when first viewed film

:D:D:D I am excited now!! :D:D:p

While I can't comment on the audio part if you are a Simon Pegg fan of comedy there is a movie called Run Fatboy Run that he co wrote with Micheal Ian Black (The State) and is pretty funny if you like that sort of humor. I'm not familiar with how the audio compares to those other films though as I viewed it on cable and my system is lacking compared to you guys.

why is it so hard to grasp that a sub can out perform another? ive listened to a friends subMersive and yea it sounds great but why is everyone throwing such a fit that something might of come along that can match it or dare i say beat it for less $$

why is it so hard to grasp that a sub can out perform another? ive listened to a friends subMersive and yea it sounds great but why is everyone throwing such a fit that something might of come along that can match it or dare i say beat it for less $$

In generally I'll agree with you here. Everyone has different rooms and expectations in subwoofers vary dramatically. DreamCatcher also had many complimentary things to say about the SubMersive, and if you dig back he was able to get more of what he was after with some further adjustments to the setup over time, and I had posted what I suspected was causing what he was hearing, and I suspect the differences observed are related as much to different frequency responses of the subs and how they are interacting differently with the room.

Please guys, keep it civil.

I've owned dual Velodyne DD18's; Dual SVS PC13's and dual SVS PB12/Plus2 2's at the same time (all 4 were running simultaneously); Dual SVS B4's which are no longer in production (now THOSE were awesome beasts); Dual Dunlavy Tower Subs (each tower had 4 12 inch drivers in them in a cabinet of about 15 cf!) two other 18 inch Velodyne subs; and BagEnd Infra Sub 18's (and probably some more I have forgotten). And I now have 4 SubMersives.

Each of these had strengths and weaknesses IN MY ROOM. For example, the BagEnds, were a nice addition for music and had ZERO slam for HT (the dealer came to the same conclusion and quit carrying them). The Dunlavy Towers had limited placement options due to their size (74 inches tall, 33 inches deep and 15 inches wide) so uncorrected room response sucked. But when they were right, they were the best I had ever heard. But did not go anywhere near as low as the SubMersives; for me, the DD18's were the most underwhelming given the price point althought I did like the SMS feature. (As an aside, I had one of the DD18's in my family room before my theater and ABSOLUTELY LOVED it -- same sub, different room and different conclusion.). The SVS B4's were easily the most powerful and literally created room structural problems (each had 4 12 inch drivers in a somewhat off-the-wall design ported enclosure). The dual SVS PC13's were excellent. Great product and they did have slam. But due to the ported design and room placement I used, they could give up their location on occasion (port noise I assume).

The SubMersives are not perfect either. But IN MY ROOM, they are close. Unlike the poster who commented that IN HIS ROOM they did not move much air, IN MY ROOM, they move HUGE amounts of air. So for him, the SubMersive may not be the best choice. In my room, they are close to flat at 5hz (4 db down). I watched the newest Hulk movie last night and had difficulty not smiling due to the fun factor the subs added to the experience. (not a great movie but lots of great bass). But I'll bet that subs by other manufacturers in other rooms will provide another owner with the same smile factor.

So were are talking about (1) personal preference of delivered sound, (2)room, (3)value proposition (money spent versus objectives achieved) are the key factors in determining overall satisfaction with your purchase.

And there is no one answer. For me (as of November 3, 2009) it is the Seaton SubMersive.

Audioguy, wow. Four different companies with multiple subs from many of them. That is quite a list you have compiled. The SubMersive is only my third sub and I have never had more than one sub in my room at a time. And now you have four SubMersives. That is pretty impressive. I have to also agree with you on the fact that every person has a different room with different placement options. IN MY ROOM I have been scared plenty of times by what this sub can do. Does that mean that I question when someone is not satisfied? Not really. I can just guess that it is not a good fit for their room. That's part of what we do. Figure out what works and what does not. For me the submersive works.

Got the order in for mine today! Black Oak... Can't wait =D

This will be my first subwoofer. I guess I had one with my klipsch promedia 5.1s (computer speakers), but I don't think these can even be compared... I'm pairing it up with Klipsch RF-83's - I can't wait to see what it adds.

Got the order in for mine today! Black Oak... Can't wait =D

This will be my first subwoofer. I guess I had one with my klipsch promedia 5.1s (computer speakers), but I don't think these can even be compared... I'm pairing it up with Klipsch RF-83's - I can't wait to see what it adds.
Congrats! I suspect with those big towers, you'll be tempted to run the mains are "Large" or "Full Range". Resist that temptation, my friend! The Submersive will be a much better bass transducer than the woofers in your towers. Set your speakers to "Small", even though they are physically "large". This will invoke the crossovers and engage Bass Management. Send all that good bass to the "speaker" best able to reproduce it... the Submersive! :)

Best of luck with your new sub, and welcome to the fraternity.

Craig

Congrats! I suspect with those big towers, you'll be tempted to run the mains are "Large" or "Full Range". Resist that temptation, my friend! The Submersive will be a much better bass transducer than the woofers in your towers. Set your speakers to "Small", even though they are physically "large". This will invoke the crossovers and engage Bass Management. Send all that good bass to the "speaker" best able to reproduce it... the Submersive! :)

Best of luck with your new sub, and welcome to the fraternity.

Craig

Thank you - I need to remember to do that when the sub arrives!

Got the order in for mine today! Black Oak... Can't wait =D

This will be my first subwoofer. I guess I had one with my klipsch promedia 5.1s (computer speakers), but I don't think these can even be compared... I'm pairing it up with Klipsch RF-83's - I can't wait to see what it adds.

That is really good. The Black Oak looks like a great finish. Coming from no subwoofer to this one should be quite the experience. Just don't go too nuts with it. If you are not careful you could cause your ears to ring for several days:eek:. Not that I would know about that :p. Enjoy and we will be looking forward to your thoughts

Thank you - I need to remember to do that when the sub arrives!

I also use RF-83's for mains and run them small with a 60 hz crossover.

John

Just received my fed-ex tracking info and my Submersive will be here on the 16th...Oh Yeaaaaah!:D

what color did you get?

what color did you get?


I got the basic black. I'm a single dude rockin the "batcave":) so anything else would really be unnecessary(no WAF).

I got the basic black. I'm a single dude rockin the "batcave":) so anything else would really be unnecessary(no WAF).

I got the basic black as well. It looks nice. I said this before. Even before I started to pile stuff on it:p someone said "Hey, that is a nice end table."

Hey guys:

I'm looking for a gut check on my expectations for a Submersive from some current owners...maybe even from Mark himself.

I have a pretty small room ~13'x15' (~1,500 sq. ft.) that is at least fairly well treated acoustically (average RT60 ~235ms, if I recall correctly). I currently have an aging HSU VTF3 Mk2 for a sub. It's the only thing left in my setup that hasn't been upgraded over the years, and I'm starting to think it's time for a change. To it's credit, it does go pretty low, probably -3db around 15-16Hz and has a fair amount of punch. But it's just good, not great (IMO). The HSU has a hint of that visceral impact at low frequencies, but nothing really awe inspiring. I'm looking for something that will dig deeper and be able to get there with a LOT more authority than the HSU. I guess I'm looking for a day and night difference between my current sub and a new one. So, after all that, my question is....are these fair expectations for the Submersive considering my setup/room?

I'm not dead set on the Submersive, but it's definitely at the top of my list. It appears to represent a really nice intersection between price, performance and, ironically, size. I really like the fact that Mark seems to have been able to get quite a bit of performance without making the box the size of a refrigerator....

Thanks for any words of wisdom.


Scott

Hey guys:

I'm looking for a gut check on my expectations for a Submersive from some current owners...maybe even from Mark himself.

I have a pretty small room ~13'x15' (~1,500 sq. ft.) that is at least fairly well treated acoustically (average RT60 ~235ms, if I recall correctly). I currently have an aging HSU VTF3 Mk2 for a sub. It's the only thing left in my setup that hasn't been upgraded over the years, and I'm starting to think it's time for a change. To it's credit, it does go pretty low, probably -3db around 15-16Hz and has a fair amount of punch. But it's just good, not great (IMO). The HSU has a hint of that visceral impact at low frequencies, but nothing really awe inspiring. I'm looking for something that will dig deeper and be able to get there with a LOT more authority than the HSU. I guess I'm looking for a day and night difference between my current sub and a new one. So, after all that, my question is....are these fair expectations for the Submersive considering my setup/room?

I'm not dead set on the Submersive, but it's definitely at the top of my list. It appears to represent a really nice intersection between price, performance and, ironically, size. I really like the fact that Mark seems to have been able to get quite a bit of performance without making the box the size of a refrigerator....

Thanks for any words of wisdom.


Scott
Scott, my room is 12.5x9.5f with an 8f ceiling. I have a single. I know I should go slow with my wording but I don't think you will have any problems at all scaring yourself silly with this sub in a room that size. IN MY ROOM it digs lower then 15Hz. Most people have experienced the same thing. This sub has plenty of clean room shaking bass. I don't think putting this sub in your room will give you a "hint" of visceral impact at low frequencies, it will be out there for all to see. But the SQ is up there with the best subs I have ever heard. That includes subs from JM Labs(SW900 and Utopia Be) Martin Logan(The Decent), Wilson Audio(The Watch Dog) and the old Dynaudio Sub(Contour). Plus B&W and Velodyne.

Again, I don't know what else you are looking at but I don't think you would be going wrong with this sub.
P.S I just check your system. Pretty sweet setup you have there. The SubMersive will have no problem finding a home in a system like that. You have a very nice response to your system. How ever you treated it, you did it right. The SubMersive will help you extend that frequency resonse line even lower. Man, I hate to keep adding on here but I can't help myself. I see that you are using GIK treatments? That is the way I am going to go. But I am not going to get the TriTraps. No space for them. I will get the 242's for the front of the room(2) the Monster Traps for the Back wall(2) and the 244's over my head(2). How do you like them? The seemed to have worked great in your room. Plus, I had a subdude with my old sub. You won't need it with this sub.

Based upon the quality of what you already have, I would suggest that you run and not walk to your PC and order a SubMersive.

I have not owned them all (but way more than my fair share) but the SubMersive at it's price point, it easily the best out there of all of the subs that I have owned and/or heard. (e.g JL, Velodyne, large SVS, Wilson, DIY)

I PROMISE you will not be dissappointed --- particularly in a room the size of yours.

ssteel01: My room is only a bit larger than yours (15x17x8.5 ceiling, ~ 2000 cu ft) and 1 SubM does a fantastic job. Of course I was coming from a SVS PB10, so for me it was INDEED night and day!

Hey guys:
I'm looking for a gut check on my expectations for a Submersive from some current owners...maybe even from Mark himself.

I have a pretty small room ~13'x15' (~1,500 sq. ft.) that is at least fairly well treated acoustically (average RT60 ~235ms, if I recall correctly). I currently have an aging HSU VTF3 Mk2 for a sub. It's the only thing left in my setup that hasn't been upgraded over the years, and I'm starting to think it's time for a change.
Scott

Hi Scott, first off nice set-up you got there!, Secondly , what are you waiting for, get a SubMersive ordered. You are making a HUGE upgrade coming from a HSU VTF3 Mk2.
I look forward to hearing your reaction after you get a SubMersive set up in your room. :cool:

I currently have an aging HSU VTF3 Mk2 for a sub.

I replaced an HSU VTF3 Mk2 with a SubMersive (one at first, then another :)) and can tell you there is no comparison. No doubt the SubMersive goes lower than the HSU but beyond that it has slam and impact that are hard to describe unless you've heard it in person. It has the ability to hit you in the chest with authority and has a tightness when playing music the the HSU could only dream about.

I've upgraded every component in my HT system over the last year and nothing comes close to having the overall impact that going from the VTF3 Mk2 to the SubMersive(s) has had.

Hi Mike, audioguy, millerwill, James W:

Thanks for the info. It's especially helpful to hear from people that have one in a similar sized room. And it's always nice to hear more nice reviews of the Submersive (though I suppose I'd be worried if I heard anything less in an owner's thread). Just as an FYI, the other subs on the top of my list are the Ultra13 (because I'm too impatient to wait for their new 16" sealed sub to come out) and the JL F113 (used). Some of the stuff from other ID companies look interesting, but tend to have a bigger footprint than I'm willing/able to accommodate.


OT side note to MikeDuke:
I love the GIK traps and highly recommend them. Very affordable, very effective. Just FYI, the tri traps actually have a smaller footprint in the corner than the 242's. I originally had the 242's angled to cover the corners, but they stuck out pretty far. That said, the 242's do just fine as corner traps. I use 4 tri's in the corners and 242's behind the main speakers and on the back wall. Plus I still have to use the notch filter in my pro to tame a really nasty ~40Hz peak that the acoustic treatments really have a hard time knocking down.


Scott

I replaced an HSU VTF3 Mk2 with a SubMersive (one at first, then another :)) and can tell you there is no comparison. No doubt the SubMersive goes lower than the HSU but beyond that it has slam and impact that are hard to describe unless you've heard it in person. It has the ability to hit you in the chest with authority and has a tightness when playing music the the HSU could only dream about.

I've upgraded every component in my HT system over the last year and nothing comes close to having the overall impact that going from the VTF3 Mk2 to the SubMersive(s) has had.

Hi Picasso:

Well, I suppose that's about as relevant of a comparison as I could have possibly hoped for. When I think about that visceral quality, I think of the lightning strike in War of the Worlds or the sonic blast scene in Hulk or the helicopter takeoff scene in Blackhawk Down. The HSU does give a bit of a whump in those scenes in WotW and Hulk (it doesn't really deliver much of anything in Blackhawk Down), but I'm looking for a bit more than that.

I guess I should have asked everyone about thoughts on using the Submersive for music too (I got all caught up in asking about the HT aspect). Truthfully, I don't usually use the sub for music, since the mains do a pretty respectable job in my room, but I'm certainly not opposed to integrating the sub for 2ch.


Scott

There are other threads where where previous owners have compared the JL13 to the SubMersive and I personally had the SVS 13 Ultras. Price not withstanding, the SubMersive is the better of these three choices. I can not comment on the other options.

OT side note to MikeDuke:
I love the GIK traps and highly recommend them. Very affordable, very effective. Just FYI, the tri traps actually have a smaller footprint in the corner than the 242's. I originally had the 242's angled to cover the corners, but they stuck out pretty far. That said, the 242's do just fine as corner traps. I use 4 tri's in the corners and 242's behind the main speakers and on the back wall. Plus I still have to use the notch filter in my pro to tame a really nasty ~40Hz peak that the acoustic treatments really have a hard time knocking down.
Scott

Here is the thing, at this point I really don't want to put anything that big in the corners themselves. I just have a feeling they will dominate the room too much. But I have been talking with Bryan P and he feels that the plan that I put together is a good one and that it will help out the room overall. I will be experimenting with some other ideas for the corners at some point. Thanks for the feedback.

Submersive is on the truck for delivery next business day! Hope I get home from work before they show up...

Submersive is on the truck for delivery next business day! Hope I get home from work before they show up...

Mine showed up today. I'm crazy pumped but I don't get off work untill 11pm. Still just the fact that it's in my hands now makes me pretty happy, can't wait to hear it.

Happy to say that I am now "offically" part of the Submersive club:D

Submersive is on the truck for delivery next business day! Hope I get home from work before they show up...

Mine showed up today. I'm crazy pumped but I don't get off work untill 11pm. Still just the fact that it's in my hands now makes me pretty happy, can't wait to hear it.

Happy to say that I am now "offically" part of the Submersive club:D

I remember well the crummy wait! ;)

Looking forward to your impressions...

Just over 3 months into mine and I'm loving my HT, but actually even more unbelievably impressed with the music capacities of the SubMersive. I've re-discovered my music collection and had a so much fun via netflix with blu-ray concerts. David Glilmour is up next...

Just remember to eat your Wheaties before you start pushing it around!

Just remember to eat your Wheaties before you start pushing it around!


Hahaha, I actually have a buddy coming over to help me out as my Submersive is actually still in my car hatch here at work and I have to haul er' downstairs to the batcave. I consider myself to be fairly fit as I workout regularly but in no way what so ever am I gonna try to tackle this beast by myself. This thing was actually loaded into my car with a fork lift lol.

Hahaha, I actually have a buddy coming over to help me out as my Submersive is actually still in my car hatch here at work and I have to haul er' downstairs to the batcave. I consider myself to be fairly fit as I workout regularly but in no way what so ever am I gonna try to tackle this beast by myself. This thing was actually loaded into my car with a fork lift lol.

C'mon, man! Mine were delivered to my driveway. I put 'em on a handtruck and wheeled 'em around back, down a hill and into the basement. I unpacked 'em, and placed 'em, all by myself. They're heavy, yeah, ya just need to learn how to use leverage!

Man up!

:D:D:D

j/k of course. These suckers are heavy and big/awkward. The more help you can get to lug them around the better.

I'm sure you'll enjoy yours as much as I do mine!

Craig

C'mon, man! Mine were delivered to my driveway. I put 'em on a handtruck and wheeled 'em around back, down a hill and into the basement. I unpacked 'em, and placed 'em, all by myself. They're heavy, yeah, ya just need to learn how to use leverage!

Man up!

:D:D:D

j/k of course. These suckers are heavy and big/awkward. The more help you can get to lug them around the better.

I'm sure you'll enjoy yours as much as I do mine!

Craig

You forgot to mention that you also strapped em on your back and had to walk 5miles.... in the snow...with no shoes;).

C'mon, man! Mine were delivered to my driveway. I put 'em on a handtruck and wheeled 'em around back, down a hill and into the basement. I unpacked 'em, and placed 'em, all by myself. They're heavy, yeah, ya just need to learn how to use leverage!

Man up!

Well, Craig, I did talk the UPS guy into helping me carry it up the entry stairs to our front door. Then I manhandled it down a hall (which fortunately has a rug runner) into the back BR/now HT. Again have some oriental rugs, so not hard to shove it around. All by myself (tipped the boxed on its side to open and slide it out); not bad for a 68 yr old.

You forgot to mention that you also strapped em on your back and had to walk 5miles.... in the snow...with no shoes;).
Up hill... BOTH WAYS!!! :D:D:D

Up hill... BOTH WAYS!!! :D:D:D

lol, knew I forgot something:p.

I have no choice but to tackle these beasts on my own. I am going to have to man handle 3 catalysts, 4 sparks and 2 SubMersives. I am thinking doing it in stages, so hopefully I will be finnished moving them a month after they arrive!!!!!!:p

Well I didn't have much time last night but I still managed to squeeze in hooking up my Submersive and watched one movie(Jumper). I haven't started pushing it around yet, just placed it where my old sub was but wow do these things PUMP! My HT is even set up in a solid concrete, well insulated basement and I can clearly see I'm still gonna have to be careful not to bump out my neighbours and have the police show up at my door.

This weekend I'll be making some quality Submersive time lol.

I have no choice but to tackle these beasts on my own. I am going to have to man handle 3 catalysts, 4 sparks and 2 SubMersives. I am thinking doing it in stages, so hopefully I will be finnished moving them a month after they arrive!!!!!!:p

I hope you don't have to many steps. Stages is a good idea. As long as you have everything just do it a bit a time. Maybe set the two Catalysts up. Then setup the 2 sparks and one sub and run a phantom center. That leaves the center cat, 2 sparks and one sub. The rest should be able to go in without much of a problem. Just a thought :). Can't wait to hear what you think of them.

I hope you don't have to many steps. Stages is a good idea. As long as you have everything just do it a bit a time. Maybe set the two Catalysts up. Then setup the 2 sparks and one sub and run a phantom center. That leaves the center cat, 2 sparks and one sub. The rest should be able to go in without much of a problem. Just a thought :). Can't wait to hear what you think of them.
No need to worry about running a phantom center and such, b/c I still have yet to build the room. Once I get the speakers I am going to finish off the layout and get started on the build. I am looking at about a month to get every thing sorted and installed and a further two months to complete the build.:) That will include getting the room treated.

No need to worry about running a phantom center and such, b/c I still have yet to build the room. Once I get the speakers I am going to finish off the layout and get started on the build. I am looking at about a month to get every thing sorted and installed and a further two months to complete the build.:) That will include getting the room treated.

Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this setup. You will have 9200 watts of clean power to play with:eek:. Just be careful:p.

Managed to squeeze in another movie last night(Inglourious Basterds). Not a whole lot of bass but the couple gunfights that come up sure had some punch to them. I'm seriously considering maybe talking to my neighbours asking them to call me if things are too loud. This thing seriously shakes my whole house and would prefer to get a phone call from them rather then police showing up at my front door... looks like I might have to move to a farm soon lol j/k.

A two acre suburban house in a nearby town will be sufficient. :)

Managed to squeeze in another movie last night(Inglourious Basterds). Not a whole lot of bass but the couple gunfights that come up sure had some punch to them. I'm seriously considering maybe talking to my neighbours asking them to call me if things are too loud. This thing seriously shakes my whole house and would prefer to get a phone call from them rather then police showing up at my front door... looks like I might have to move to a farm soon lol j/k.

You aren't too far off. I've watched a few segments of movies (Iron Man, Watchmen) and a few TV shows and a few cds, and I don't think I can run this beast at even a 1/4 of its ability (probably much less than that even). My closest neighbor's house is 150 ft away, but he heard it easily monday night... After him the next closest house is about 500ft away.

To say the least - I'm very impressed. Bass has never had such a full sound, or the depth that I'm hearing and feeling. A more detailed review will follow after some more listening, but for now - this thing is just awesome.

If your closest neighbor is 150 feet away and can hear your theater, I am in deep ka-ka. While my theater is in the basement, I am only about 30 feet from his home and I have 4 SubMersives. Fortunately, he is a renter so what can he do. :p

I may have to crank it up and go outside and find out what my neighbors are hearing. Or maybe I won't since I've heard that ignorance is bliss.

If your closest neighbor is 150 feet away and can hear your theater, I am in deep ka-ka. While my theater is in the basement, I am only about 30 feet from his home and I have 4 SubMersives. Fortunately, he is a renter so what can he do. :p

I may have to crank it up and go outside and find out what my neighbors are hearing. Or maybe I won't since I've heard that ignorance is bliss.

LOL, poor guy! Or he could consider himself lucky and synchronize any movie you watch and he could get all his bass for free... :p

would a dual drive HSU ULS-15 be as good as a single submersive?

I installed an Hsu Dual Drive system recently for a friend. I have dual Submersives in my own HT. I can't compare a single Submersive to Dual Drive Hsu's, but my "gut" is this:

The Dual Drive system will have similar output, extension and sound quality to a single Submersive. It will have the advantage of being able to place two subs within the room for better FR. It will have the disadvantage of having to place two subs within the room. Pick your poison. I doubt you could go wrong with either choice.

It's *nice* to have choices. :)

Craig

thanks a lot, i appreciate the response.

would a dual drive HSU ULS-15 be as good as a single submersive?

I use Dual SubMersives and an HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive System in my HT. I use an SVS-EQ1 for correction.

The dual SubMersives are up front and a co-located pair of ULS-15's are placed along each rear side wall.

I haven't done a direct comparison but agree with craig john.

John

I use Dual SubMersives and an HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive System in my HT. I use an SVS-EQ1 for correction.

The dual SubMersives are up front and a co-located pair of ULS-15's are placed along each rear side wall.

I haven't done a direct comparison but agree with craig john.

John

How do you find the different subs? Does this cause any problems?

I use Dual SubMersives and an HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive System in my HT.

You use SIX (6) subs in your room which is eight (8) 15 inch drivers! I thought I was one of the few loonies who did that (4 SubMersives). How large is your room?

You use SIX (6) subs in your room which is eight (8) 15 inch drivers! I thought I was one of the few loonies who did that (4 SubMersives). How large is your room?

If you click on the link "Theater for one" it says the room size is
13' 10" W x 21' 7" L x 8' 6" H
It looks like it is just under 2200cf. That is a lot of woof:eek: for a space that size.

Originally Posted by John H
I use Dual SubMersives and an HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive System in my HT.

It looks like it is just under 2200cf. That is a lot of woof:eek: for a space that size.

Holy smokes! That must be insane! My room is ~2700cf with some openings and I only have one SubMersive. Last night I was watching the new Star Trek on blu-ray and the bass was so nuts that I came close to going into my Onkyo and lowering it a few db. I cannot even imagine how insane it could get for John in 2200cf if he had all those subs dialed in properly. :p:D

Though it would be alot of fun to have so much bass to play with once in awhile! :p

How do you find the different subs? Does this cause any problems?

It works out well using the AS-EQ1

You use SIX (6) subs in your room which is eight (8) 15 inch drivers! I thought I was one of the few loonies who did that (4 SubMersives). How large is your room?

2537 cf (sealed)

John

It works out well using the AS-EQ1



2537 cf (sealed)

John

That is a lot of woof per square foot. I watched TF2 last night and the bass in my room was pretty intense. Given that you have the same number of drivers (not exactly apples to apples but close) in 65% of the space I do, I can not even imagine what your bass must sound like. Maybe I need to order 4 more SubMerisves --- NOT!

Does anyone here with 2+ SubMersives have them stacked on top of each other? I am entertaining the thought of adding an additional SubMersive, thanks to John H ^^. Though I kinda doubt that stacking them would be the best thing to do. Mark, id kinda like to hear your thoughts on the best way to make use of dual subwoofers. The addition of one more SubMersive in my room would definitely bring some insanity to the table. :p

That is a lot of woof per square foot. I watched TF2 last night and the bass in my room was pretty intense. Given that you have the same number of drivers (not exactly apples to apples but close) in 65% of the space I do, I can not even imagine what your bass must sound like. Maybe I need to order 4 more SubMerisves --- NOT!

That sounds like a new subwoofer metric!:D

Mike

Does anyone here with 2+ SubMersives have them stacked on top of each other? I am entertaining the thought of adding an additional SubMersive, thanks to John H ^^. Though I kinda doubt that stacking them would be the best thing to do. Mark, id kinda like to hear your thoughts on the best way to make use of dual subwoofers. The addition of one more SubMersive in my room would definitely bring some insanity to the table. :p

Depends on your objectives. If you are looking to maximize output, them stacking is the way to go. If you are looking to optimize frequency response, then not stacking is the way to go. If you want to really bring insanity to the table, then buy enough subs so that you can stack AND place for optimized FR.

Assuming John H has *calibrated* his system correctly, (and I'm sure he has), his bass should not be anymore "insane" than anyone else's with a calibrated system. He will just have lots more headroom, and his subs, (individually), will each be reproducing at a much lower level than if he had fewer subs, (which means they'll have much lower distortion.) So, unless he sets his subs really "hot", (which would mean he's no longer calibrated correctly), he won't have any more "insane" levels of bass than our 1 or 2 subs systems, (assuming we've all calibrated correctly.)

His speakers will be the limiting factor as to how loud the *system* plays. He has Klipsch RF-83's which are no slouch in terms of output. However, I'm sure they don't have anywhere close to the maximum output capability of his combined 6-subwoofer system. However, he'll never see/hear the maximum output capability of his subs, (unless he throws out his calibration and sets the subs *very* hot.)

Craig

See my above post. ^

Does anyone here with 2+ SubMersives have them stacked on top of each other? I am entertaining the thought of adding an additional SubMersive, thanks to John H ^^. Though I kinda doubt that stacking them would be the best thing to do. Mark, id kinda like to hear your thoughts on the best way to make use of dual subwoofers. The addition of one more SubMersive in my room would definitely bring some insanity to the table. :p

What speakers do you have? If you've already exceeded the SPL capability of your speakers with your single Submersives, then more output won't be a huge benefit. Therefore, placing them separately, for improved frequency response would be your best bet.

Craig

See my above post. ^



What speakers do you have? If you've already exceeded the SPL capability of your speakers with your single Submersives, then more output won't be a huge benefit. Therefore, placing them separately, for improved frequency response would be your best bet.

Craig

You bring up a good point, my speakers are av123 ELT525s and they are at about their ends with a single SubMersive. I got kinda lucky as far as placement goes. I am pretty confident my SubMersive is set up pretty much perfectly. Of course I do have some help, an Anti-Mode 8033.

I have a feeling that another SubMersive would not do a whole lot for me. I am really quite happy with everything right now, I need to stop reading this thread because it does not take a whole lot to spark up a gear purchase being the home theater junkie that I have become. :D

Assuming John H has *calibrated* his system correctly, (and I'm sure he has), his bass should not be anymore "insane" than anyone else's with a calibrated system. He will just have lots more headroom, and his subs, (individually), will each be reproducing at a much lower level than if he had fewer subs, (which means they'll have much lower distortion.) So, unless he sets his subs really "hot", (which would mean he's no longer calibrated correctly), he won't have any more "insane" levels of bass than our 1 or 2 subs systems, (assuming we've all calibrated correctly.)

His speakers will be the limiting factor as to how loud the *system* plays. He has Klipsch RF-83's which are no slouch in terms of output. However, I'm sure they don't have anywhere close to the maximum output capability of his combined 6-subwoofer system. However, he'll never see/hear the maximum output capability of his subs, (unless he throws out his calibration and sets the subs *very* hot.)

Craig

See my above post. ^



What speakers do you have? If you've already exceeded the SPL capability of your speakers with your single Submersives, then more output won't be a huge benefit. Therefore, placing them separately, for improved frequency response would be your best bet.

Craig
Craig -

Good points.

I was wondering.
If I have a sub with "flat" output characteristics (see PDF with Audyssey MultEQxt Pro kit before and after), then will adding more subs or different subs provide much benefit?
And how?

I suspect there might be less THD or other features, but I'm curious to hear any comments.

My gear is in signature link, but sub is SVS PB12-Ultra/2.

Mike

PS - the "trim -12" indicates I still have a lot of headroom to go (amp gain ~half way)

Craig -

Good points.

I was wondering.
If I have a sub with "flat" output characteristics (see PDF with Audyssey MultEQxt Pro kit before and after), then will adding more subs or different subs provide much benefit?
And how?

I suspect there might be less THD or other features, but I'm curious to hear any comments.

My gear is in signature link, but sub is SVS PB12-Ultra/2.

Mike

PS - the "trim -12" indicates I still have a lot of headroom to go (amp gain ~half way)

Hi Mike,

This is a very interesting question, and it deserves it's own thread. Why don't you start one, and we'll discuss it there. :)

Craig

PS. I grew up in SE WI... in a suburb of Milwaukee. :)

Assuming John H has *calibrated* his system correctly, (and I'm sure he has), his bass should not be anymore "insane" than anyone else's with a calibrated system. He will just have lots more headroom, and his subs, (individually), will each be reproducing at a much lower level than if he had fewer subs, (which means they'll have much lower distortion.) So, unless he sets his subs really "hot", (which would mean he's no longer calibrated correctly), he won't have any more "insane" levels of bass than our 1 or 2 subs systems, (assuming we've all calibrated correctly.)

His speakers will be the limiting factor as to how loud the *system* plays. He has Klipsch RF-83's which are no slouch in terms of output. However, I'm sure they don't have anywhere close to the maximum output capability of his combined 6-subwoofer system. However, he'll never see/hear the maximum output capability of his subs, (unless he throws out his calibration and sets the subs *very* hot.)

Craig


Craig,

Along with the increased headroom would one be able to produce more low end output? Obviously not more extension but what about low end output?

Thanks,
John

Craig,

Along with the increased headroom would one be able to produce more low end output? Obviously not more extension but what about low end output?

Thanks,
John
You could do that with EQ. Don't raise the average level of the subs. Just bump the bottom end. I don't think your AS-EQ1 will allow that. Nor does my Audyssey MultEQ XT. I use an SMS-1 for that. I bump the 15 Hz output by 3 dB. :)

With your system, you have so much headroom that you could use a parametric EQ to adjust the deep bass to your liking. All your subs are certainly capable of deep extension. Have you ever measured the response in your room? I don't remember ever seeing you post it. Here is mine, (with the 3 dB boost at 15 Hz):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=158781&stc=1&d=1258762853

Craig

Edit: I don't have any idea how you would integrate a parametric EQ into a system with an AS-EQ1. Probably the best bet would be an Audyssey Pro calibration. You can adjust the target curve with Audyssey Pro.

Hi Mike,

This is a very interesting question, and it deserves it's own thread. Why don't you start one, and we'll discuss it there. :)

Craig

PS. I grew up in SE WI... in a suburb of Milwaukee. :)
Craig -

Good idea.
Here is the new thread -LINK (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17576367#post17576367).


Mike