Hi Mark,

am interested a lot in your sub machine, did send many PM's mails and so on but no replies unfortunately. Can imagine you have lots on your mind with your subs.....
Live in Europe, if you do not wish to ship to Europe then let me know, please ;)

apparently I missed the link for Mark's site.... :confused:

apparently I missed the link for Mark's site.... :confused:

It will be http://seatonsound.com/, but it still not online. He's been a very busy man. :)

you'll definitely have a smile on your face once that thing is installed...my own experiences with a 2x15 system are very satisfying...for the moment that is...i'm not aware of all the specifics with Marks' sub but in 1000ft3 you should definitely look for at least reference level performance...i'm in 1800ft3 and DVD's have become a listening "event"...good luck to you.
The estimates that mark has given me are just plain sick. He is estimating that I could get 105-110 in the 10Hz range. 115-120 in the 20Hz range, and just silly numbers above 30Hz. It should be quite an experience. Especially when I consider what I am going from. A ported sub with a single 13in driver and 400 watts. This thing is a sealed box with 1000 watts and 2X15 inch drivers :D. I looked at your design. Very nice. I noticed that yours is 200Lbs. That is pretty heavy. Marks is 110Lbs. The good and amazing thing is that it is not much bigger then my sub. My sub know looks like yours. More long then wide. Marks is the same shape. The main difference is that his is taller and mine weighs 97lbs.

Any details? :)
2 18's and 2x the output.

SubMersive2?????????

SubMersive2?????????
Come on. You really did not think that Mark was just going sit back on cruise control now did you :)

SubMersive2?????????

I don't have a lot of time at this moment, so I will make this very quick.

It should be made clear that I don't expect this to come to be for 4-6 months, but it is in motion. The price will be more than 2x the $1995 asking price of the SubMersive.

Thank you for all the interest and enthusiasm from everyone!

Mark,

I know you're busy, but wondered if you might consider starting a list of those interested in the Submersive when they become readily available.

If not, are you at the point where you are you have a good idea of when you will reach production? (not on the Sub2, the Submersive).

I think I'd be less anxious if I had an approximate date, or knew I could get on a waiting list. :)

Thanx

thanks Mark, the price on the sub2 puts me on the sidelines but I badly badly want the
SubMersive with one of the premium cabinets you mentioned were being manufactured in China, any timeline on that?

2 18's and 2x the output.

I should add more to this very quick explanation of what the intent is. Below ~25Hz, I expect the headroom of 2-3 SubMersives, and 3-6dB more above 25Hz. The other factor is that for probably 98% of their use, the driver being developed will never have to move to its conventionally rated, "linear" limits. In other words, the linearity will be exceptionally good at all operating levels.

The other purpose here is to fill the largest rooms to the performance levels we're starting to reach in moderate sized rooms without having to use 4-8 SubMersives. The SubMersive 2 is to be a performance leader and trend setter, not just the most bang for buck. It will be quite impressive for the package size.

I hope to have more solid information as to more regular availability of the SubMersive this week or next. There are a small number of SubMersives soon to be built up that do not yet have homes, but there are many more who have expressed interest. I'm pulling together some info and content for the website, where I will also have a small discussion forum specific to my products, designs, and related technical discussion.

shouldn't you be finishing up on the bmf ;)

shouldn't you be finishing up on the bmf ;)

That and 4-8 other designs. :p

The BMF did get a lot of attention this past week in getting it working for Saturday's meet that PAD, aka BigRedMachine on AV123, held in Canton, MI.

BMF...............

http://stereodude.cjb.net/BMF_02.jpg

http://stereodude.cjb.net/BMF_01.jpg

http://alhull.com/hemi2007sanctum/HEMI_Jan_2007_010.jpg

By the way Pete, ( it was his meet on Saturday) on the left, is like 6' 7" tall.

Art

all i can say is wow! good thing i have 2 already paid for!

did the tests measure up to what you were expecting?

Wow indeed. That looks like one dangerous sub. The finish looks very nice as well.

Thanks for posting those pics. It is one fine looking subwoofer.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/CarlosMeat/DSC02032.jpg



Hey....wait a minute.....Mark, this ain't fair man! :eek:

you take a $.025 coke from a rich dude like Jeff "TheBland", and you take me to the cleaners for Sushi at the WYnn in Vegas???? how does THAT work?!

hehehehhee....LOL :D :p :)

ps- THe BMF wood job is looking outstanding Mark...great job. Typical AV123 wood craftmanship. Now post some FR's would ya?!

Why does the BMF amp say "Rocket UFW-12"? :p
Is this just a prototype?
This is the wrong thread to ask, but could someone give me some quick specs on the BMF?
Thanks!

although i believe it uses a similar amp to the ufw... that was just there to seal the enclosure. i think they powered it externally as it is not the finished product

Why does the BMF amp say "Rocket UFW-12"? :p
Is this just a prototype?That was an "alpha" unit. It is going to use the same basic amp as the UFW-12, but it will be obviously modified for the BMF-1 (different filters, eq, limiter, etc).

While the core amplifier might be the same, it is all in how you use it. ;)

The UFW-12 is a much less sensitive, smaller, 12" sealed subwoofer. At 20Hz the BMF is about 10dB more sensitive than even the new Mk2 version of the UFW-12! :eek: 1000W will do nicely when appropriately unleashed. :cool:

The UFW-12 is a much less sensitive, smaller, 12" sealed subwoofer. At 20Hz the BMF is about 10dB more sensitive than even the new Mk2 version of the UFW-12! :eek: 1000W will do nicely when appropriately unleashed. :cool:
Good thing I will have 2 Mk2 UFW-12s and a BMF in my future HT :D Plus maybe something else. :eek:

Update: Most of my movie watching as of late has been with friends who complain about how loud the movie volume is so (much to my dismay) i've been forced into watching movies at a paltry level.

I made some time to watch Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy (one of my favorite recent movies) and listened to it at reference. Man do i love these subs..... Even at a lower volume the subs were impressive but i forgot just how much MORE impressive they are at reference. (the stuff with the improbability drives is so much fun to listen to) I just wanted to thank you again for making such a great product....

Ditto!!! :D

In just a few weeks I will be able to join in the fun. Mark and I are trying to schedule a time to do this. I am hoping 2-3 weeks. Man I can't wait to get this into my room.

I should add more to this very quick explanation of what the intent is. Below ~25Hz, I expect the headroom of 2-3 SubMersives, and 3-6dB more above 25Hz. The other factor is that for probably 98% of their use, the driver being developed will never have to move to its conventionally rated, "linear" limits. In other words, the linearity will be exceptionally good at all operating levels.

The other purpose here is to fill the largest rooms to the performance levels we're starting to reach in moderate sized rooms without having to use 4-8 SubMersives. The SubMersive 2 is to be a performance leader and trend setter, not just the most bang for buck. It will be quite impressive for the package size.

Will the SubMersive 2 have the same slope down low? (=-12dB / octave)

You said that small to medium sized rooms tend to gain advantage from this curve, so my guess is maybe you'll be using a different one for the SM 2. You could add a switch to compensate for room size.. :)

Would make a mighty good upgrade/addition for my upcoming SubMersives. :cool:

I reviewed the entire thread before asking this.

I have a serious interest in this sub, but I'm curious about one thing: what does the DRIVER look like?

If it can't be shown (OEM), I understand. If nobody wants to disassemble (Warranty?), I understand. But I like big, beefy, Huge, motors, top assemblies, etc.

Curious why it hasn't been discussed/shown.

Hi John,

I believe I showed a simple side shot of the driver a long while back in a thread where we got into details about "sealed subs." That said, I haven't shown the driver much, as the driver is the means, not the end. The same motor on a 12" frame looks much cooler, but doesn't help the resulting performance any. By some of the often raved about drivers, they are somewhat pedestrian looking, but well optimized for the task. That effort in optimizing the driver is why I can get 2 15" woofers to perform in such a small enlcosure, thereby not requiring 4" p-p travel and the hurdles and pitfalls of such a driver. While I'm certainly a fan of excess, there needs to be a purpose and benefit to significant cost additions. As I have long stated, it is usually more important to use the right tool for the job than to use the the one with coolest new features and buzzwords.

Hi John,

I believe I showed a simple side shot of the driver a long while back in a thread where we got into details about "sealed subs." That said, I haven't shown the driver much, as the driver is the means, not the end. The same motor on a 12" frame looks much cooler, but doesn't help the resulting performance any. By some of the often raved about drivers, they are somewhat pedestrian looking, but well optimized for the task. That effort in optimizing the driver is why I can get 2 15" woofers to perform in such a small enlcosure, thereby not requiring 4" p-p travel and the hurdles and pitfalls of such a driver. While I'm certainly a fan of excess, there needs to be a purpose and benefit to significant cost additions. As I have long stated, it is usually more important to use the right tool for the job than to use the the one with coolest new features and buzzwords.

In the meantime, I have room for 2 SUBmersives here ... and have been waiting since early December for their arrival. The Fathoms thing the SUBmersives are nervous or something ... :eek:

Ok ... seriously ... any idea on when you will be shipping again ?

In the meantime, I have room for 2 SUBmersives here ... and have been waiting since early December for their arrival. The Fathoms thing the SUBmersives are nervous or something ... :eek:

Ok ... seriously ... any idea on when you will be shipping again ?

Craig....

I will be having a GTG either late Feb or early march if you need a fix your more than welcome to come up to detroit, your only a few hrs away :p

As I have long stated, it is usually more important to use the right tool for the job than to use the the one with coolest new features and buzzwords.

come on mark, we all know its not only fun but real cool to hunt squirels with a M1a1 tank :eek:

Hi John,

I believe I showed a simple side shot of the driver a long while back in a thread where we got into details about "sealed subs." That said, I haven't shown the driver much, as the driver is the means, not the end. The same motor on a 12" frame looks much cooler, but doesn't help the resulting performance any. By some of the often raved about drivers, they are somewhat pedestrian looking, but well optimized for the task. That effort in optimizing the driver is why I can get 2 15" woofers to perform in such a small enlcosure, thereby not requiring 4" p-p travel and the hurdles and pitfalls of such a driver. While I'm certainly a fan of excess, there needs to be a purpose and benefit to significant cost additions. As I have long stated, it is usually more important to use the right tool for the job than to use the the one with coolest new features and buzzwords.
Thanks for the response.

Based on the numbers and FR graphs, you've accomplished the goals. Mostly I'm curious. Any numbers you care to share? (magnet, travel, power handling, Q, etc?).

Reviewing the entire thread just made me impatient all over again! :)

AAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Mark, are we going backwards? Just noticed your posts don't have the web address anymore. (yes, I know it was never active, but at least it was in sig before)

Seriously, I hope things are going well, and finalized dates are closer. :D

(Impatient little $h!t, ain't I)

Hi John,

Sorry, the website was never linked or listed in my signature, as that is also against forum policy. All of the subs I'm building at the moment are committed or I have multiple people who have expressed interest. Unfortunately I expect availability will be limited until the end of March. Thanks for whatever patience all of you have left. :rolleyes:

Must be gettin senile - maybe somebody else listed it at some point.

Must be gettin senile - maybe somebody else listed it at some point.


It will be http://seatonsound.com/, but it still not online. He's been a very busy man. :)

It had been posted a few post back.
Allen

I hope SeatonSound has a real page online one day,as I would be very interested in his products,as I am sure many others would be too. :)

Mark, how would one think about the "trade offs" between a pair of Submersives vs a pair of BMFs?

My room is 18L x 12H x 13W. System is used for both music and for home theater purposes.

Mains will be custom made sealed line arrays rolling off naturally around 80hz (most likely a line of 5" Accutons and a line of ribbons, although might end up with a line of 7" Accutons for a lower roll off point). Surrounds are small GR upward firing units.

Have Meridian PEQ, which I occasionally supplement with Behringer PEQ. Also have pretty extensive bass trapping in ceiling and wall juncture soffits. Only four chairs, and I'm happy optimizing for only mine as long as two of the other three don't have horrible sound.

Currently have two James EMB15s up front, and a Def Tech Supercube at the rear to even out the response curve. I could keep, or sell, all three of those units.

Thinking two of your units up front, and then the James on the sides and the Def Tech in the rear, with those latter three being used to "fill in" rather than energize the room. (Do you think / suspect the additiona units would help much, or would two of your units plus generous PEQ be plenty?)

Your thoughts about how to think about procuring my next batch of subs?

Mark,

Can you connect the Submersive to an unbalanced connection without converting the signal to +4 balanced?

Mark,

Can you connect the Submersive to an unbalanced connection without converting the signal to +4 balanced?
Mark would be the best person to answer it, but here is what I did.
I think the submersive has a similar (same?) amp as the powered version of the Danley DTS-20. I ran into the same issue. I followed Ivan's instructions in post #55 in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760784&page=5&pp=10) and it worked like a charm. It involved a very minor soldering job or you can buy one of those adapters.
-Jai

Mark,

Can you connect the Submersive to an unbalanced connection without converting the signal to +4 balanced?

Hi David,

Yes, there is no problem in doing this. Ideally you use a cable that is RCA on the processor or EQ end and XLR on the sub end. The since many do have cables run in walls that are already RCA terminated, I am including with the subwoofers a simple connector that allows for easy RCA connection so there are no delays in getting connected. Some good value interconnects I have been using are from Markertek. Their house brand using the star-quad wiring is of good quality and good price in comparision to audiophile options. The only thing to watch out for is that their "premium" RCA connectors have a wide body that can get tight on the back of receivers and pre-processors.

To those I owe e-mails and messages, I had a simultaneous setback and good news. The good news is that the SubMersive will be readily available in mid-late March. The setback has me swamped in work right now. Go figure.

I'll be contacting people in the next few weeks who have expressed interest, and of course I fully understand those who are unable to wait.

put me on your list Mark.......
wanna have your "wimpy" :rolleyes: sub desperately :D

Patience is the key. I have it :). I am looking forward to this. It should be quite an improvement over what I have now. I can't wait to feel the difference :eek: . It shouldn't be long now.

Mark:
I have Contrabass mated and Crown K2. ( I also have a Velo DD-18 )
For LFE purposes only ( not 2-channel integration ), is there any merit to me parting with the Contrabass, and acquiring a SubMersive1 ?
The reason I ask is that the Contrabass is hard to hide, and I wouldn't mind a smaller solution.

- Andy

Mark:
I have Contrabass mated and Crown K2. ( I also have a Velo DD-18 )
For LFE purposes only ( not 2-channel integration ), is there any merit to me parting with the Contrabass, and acquiring a SubMersive1 ?
The reason I ask is that the Contrabass is hard to hide, and I wouldn't mind a smaller solution.

- Andy

Andy,
You are welcome at my place some weekend. I'm still amazed at the amount of structural/ visceral effects from these beauties. As with many things an experience might be worth a lot in making a decision.

Art

Mark:
I have Contrabass mated and Crown K2. ( I also have a Velo DD-18 )
For LFE purposes only ( not 2-channel integration ), is there any merit to me parting with the Contrabass, and acquiring a SubMersive1 ?
The reason I ask is that the Contrabass is hard to hide, and I wouldn't mind a smaller solution.

- Andy

Any excuse for a trip to Art's is worth taking. ;)

A single SubMersive will not match the sub 25-30Hz output of the ContraBass which is much larger. Two SubMersives will equal the 18-20Hz output of a ContraBass, and pull ahead everywhere else. The significantly larger BMF I'm designing for AV123 is still a few months off but will be very much in line with the performance of the ContraBass. Subjectively they are much closer than just looking at 20Hz output would suggest. A better comparison might be that one SubMersive should have the un-compressed dynamics of ~2 of your DD-18s.

Exactly the kind of info I was looking for Mark, thanks.
It's still good to hear the Contrabass is still one of the low-LFE kings.
The comaparison to the DD-18 alse gets my brain scheming.

Geez, sold my original DD-18, then picked up an SMS-1, sold the SMS-1, re-acquired my same DD-18.
Now methinks -> keep Contrabass, sell DD-18, get SMS-1 and SubMersive1 ! ( I do have a spare K1 lying around too )
Such run-around we go through sometimes :)

And yes, I will have to take Art up on his offer to check-out his SOTA theatre !

- Andy

What connecivity is on the SubMersive1 ?
Is it passive or does it have a plate amp ?
If it is a plate amp, does it have a balanced input ?

- Andy

Hi Andy,

I think at the beginning of this thread and in the pictures taken at Art's there are a few shots of the amplifier. The input is only via XLR. The input is isolated from any ground loop problems itself unless they are injected upstream. As noted in my post above, there is no problem connecting to an RCA output of a pre-amp or EQ. There is also a looping/passthrough XLR connection which makes it easy to link multiple subwoofers without splitting and excess cabling. The SubMersive is internally powered by a 1000W amplifier, plug'n go.

Hey Mark dont forget I know the "secret handshake" ( Wayne) :) , I know you have been busy so I have deliberately staying out of your way, we do have business to do in the future however ie.. BMF :)

To those I owe e-mails and messages, I had a simultaneous setback and good news. The good news is that the SubMersive will be readily available in mid-late March. The setback has me swamped in work right now. Go figure.

I'll be contacting people in the next few weeks who have expressed interest, and of course I fully understand those who are unable to wait.

I'm still waiting on my twin SubMersives. :)

Mark, any idea when the other finishes for the SubMersive will be ready?

Next weekend is the time :D. I can not wait. I am sure it will exceed what I expect.

Guess what is waiting for me at home in my garage ;). Is this really a pain to move around. Did anybody have stairs to negotiate?

Lucky you....

I know. Can't wait. The Master himself setting up a SubMersive in my room. This will be fun.

I know. Can't wait. The Master himself setting up a SubMersive in my room. This will be fun.
When does it happen? Today?

When does it happen? Today?
Tonight and Tomorrow. Mark is flying in today and will start the install. Then finish it up tomorrow. My situation is "unique" so I wanted to make sure there was enough time to do everything

Remember to take photos.

I will try and take some. But I will not be able to upload them for a bit.

Guess what is waiting for me at home in my garage ;). Is this really a pain to move around. Did anybody have stairs to negotiate?

Yea I did, 5 Times :eek: Mine is in a basement theater and I also moved the 4 of Arts UP( yes UP)stairs to the 2nd floor theater. I then also moved 4 of the SVS's down stairs to the garage. They are a 2 person carry but not as bad to move as the svs's due to size/weight.

Dont forget to take pics and let us know what you think :D :rolleyes:

I will try and take some. But I will not be able to upload them for a bit.
you BETTER find time, or you are banned from my thread! :p :D :)

Mark is one of the best...you are in very good hands. I'm jelous!

I am on vacation starting Sun. Wont be back until the following Mon. Getting the pictures on to my computer that has internet access is not an easy task. BTW I am going to be in Clearwater FL. You guys are just going to have to wait. But I am sure I can convince mark to post some thoughts and numbers from my room.

Congratulations Mike.

Will you be using the sub for 2ch as well as HT?

Thanks.
We shall see. My mains are pretty strong in this room. I will see what Mark recommends.

Thanks.
We shall see. My mains are pretty strong in this room. I will see what Mark recommends.

Good luck I’m sure Mark won’t put you wrong.

BTW I’ve converted several ‘Audiophiles’ downunder to the benefits of using goods subs to enhance their 2ch experience.

If done right, it could be a very good thing. I am not against it at all.

OK Phase one is complete. Mark got to my house about 8:30pm and stayed for about 2 hours. In that time he was able to get the sub upstairs. That was easier then I thought. We got my old sub out and unpacked the SubMersive. Mark cleaned it off. Then he fixed a problem that I was having. It turns out that I mistakenly switched my amp to mono. Duh :o . Any way, know we are good to go. So tomorrow the connection and calibration will take place. This is going to be one bad ass MoFo in my room. Stay tuned for more tomorrow.

Good luck I’m sure Mark won’t put you wrong.

BTW I’ve converted several ‘Audiophiles’ downunder to the benefits of using goods subs to enhance their 2ch experience.

Spearmint - good to "see" you ! Thanks again for the disc - my kids even love it. :)

good stuff Mike....keep us up to date!!

This is going to be one bad ass MoFo in my room. Stay tuned for more tomorrow.

So the submersive makes you talk funny even before you hook it up? Imagine afterwards. :D

Yea, who knows what will happen :p. He will stop by this morning to finish up the job. We just need to decide on placement. Right now it is in the back of the room next to my main listening position. But he is strongly thinking about putting it in the front left corner of the room. We shall see. Then we just need to connect the EQ and calibrate. I will update again when it is complete. That is, if I am able to type a sentence that makes sense :eek: :D.

I've been trying to see a picture of this sub and some technical data. All that a Google search comes up with is forum threads. Not even a one page Web site?

Oh, yes. There's also this that comes up on Google:

Submersive Trauma

A term commonly used among EMT's, Paramedics, and Firefighters to describe someone who has just been laid.

A term used to describe the act of having sex.

A term used to describe the a type of trauma commonly suffered by those who have just been penetrated in a sexual manner (i.e. BLUNT=penis; PENETRATING=the act of sex; SUBMERSIVE=entering someone with a blunt tipped penis or other phalic-like object; and TRAUMA=the resulting condition).

The other night, I left my girlfriend lying there on the bed, dripping wet, and suffering from blunt penetrating submersive trauma after doing her for over an hour!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Blunt+Penetrating+Submersive+Trauma

Pretty funny. Huh? :D

Thats hilarious. I just so happened to be reading your post while on the phone with the mrs. and she also found it hilarious.

I've been trying to see a picture of this sub and some technical data. All that a Google search comes up with is forum threads. Not even a one page Web site?

Oh, yes. There's also this that comes up on Google:

[SIZE=3][B]Submersive Trauma




Here ya go and as for performance? in a word "FANTASTIC" :D

Here ya go and as for performance? in a word "FANTASTIC" :D

Thanks. Any technical data?

Thanks. Any technical data?

I dont want to give any incorrect data so I will only state what I know, 2 15" drivers mounted on opposing sides of the cabinet thats why you can only see one but trust me there are 2 active 15" monsters in there and powered by 1000w digital amp, ive actually held one of these amps in my hand and its hard to believe that 1000w amp can be so light and it was actually powering one of his speakers and felt literally no heat, the unit is extremely well engineered, the input uses a balanced connection, because of the design using drivers on opposite sides of the cabinet you can literally put this on a tile floor and it wont walk away on you while playing at high spl levels, be warned this is a scary subwoofer, not for the faint of heart he has put so much engineering into this thing its amazing, tune it to your room with a good eq (recommend QSC) and you wont have to worry about replacing a sub, does music beautifully as well, if anyone else including Mark wants to jump in with any more technical data feel free, also this is a sealed unit not ported and will go down to single HZ range in properly tuned rooms, this is a sub that you "FEEL" not just listen to, it can beat up your torso area pretty bad with the right material such as "open range" :D

Thanks. And how does one go about buying these subs? Could not find them on the Internet, could not find a company Web site.

If you want to by one, you can contact Mark Directly. Either PM or his email. I will send you his email address. Check your PM

Any way, My install is complete. OMG. This is just a crazy good sub. But it is not just the sub. Mark did a complete system overhaul for me. The results were quite dramatic. The sub has +-4db reading down to 8hz in my room :eek: . Dynamics are just insane. We played clips of Master and Commander, U-571, and Open Range :eek: :eek: . I will put it to you this way. Instead of just watching a gun fight, the dynamics are so good that it sounds what guns would really sound like. The thunder sounds like real thunder. Not just movie thunder playing loud. It is quite impressive. I have no regrets about this at all. Just as a reference point, my previous sub was ported, had a 13.18in driver and had a 400watt amp. It started to drop off hard in the mid 20's at least. This is a completely different animal.


Not to mention that Mark is a great guy to meet and he is wicked smart. When he was testing and using his lap top, I was in awe. He would change the crossover a bit. Or the speaker distance in the processor or the delay times just a bit. But the results were dramatic. My theater has never sounded like this. It was a total system upgrade.


Mark has got fairly uniform results in all installs. It will have a roll off down to 10Hz in most rooms. Output is major in all respects. Although Mark will tell you there is always room for more. I am very happy. Anybody looking for a new sub HAS to consider this. You will not be sorry. I am not. Look for more views when I am able to watch some movies when I get back from vacation. Mark said that he would post some charts from my room next week.

If you want to by one, you can contact Mark Directly. Either PM or his email. I will send you his email address. Check your PM ...

Thanks, Mike. I gather he builds them in his garage?

May i ask what this whole setup, including sub, cost you?

Here ya go and as for performance? in a word "FANTASTIC" :D

Can you shoot us a jpg of where the submersive is located?

Also, what is that on top of your right main speaker.

What size is your room.

May i ask what this whole setup, including sub, cost you?

I'm back in Chicago for a short time, and I'm pretty happy with the experience we achieved in Mike's small, untreated room. I know Mike is headed out of town tomorrow, so I'll answer the question to him breifly. Mike has been hunting me down for a while now, and he caught me early on and got a little bit of a break over what I would normally charge, but he was very patient and knew these are early production units. The SubMersive itself is $1995, the QSC DSP-30 is ~$500, about $50 in quality ballanced cables, plus my services. My optimization of a system runs anywhere from $500-$1000 plus approximate travel expenses.

Can you shoot us a jpg of where the submersive is located?

Also, what is that on top of your right main speaker.

What size is your room.

Hi JimP,

The pictures funlvr posted were from when I came by my place to pick up his SubMersive which was one of my first production samples. Those pictures are not of his room, but rather one room/lab in my place. :rolleyes: I believe he has some pictures of his room with the SubMersive installed somewhere. In his gallery are pictures of his rom with his previous M&K subs.

Edit:

Here is a shot that funlvr posted earlier in this same thread of his SubMersive in his room:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=70572

Mark,

Thanks for the reply.

Very impressive looking sub.

Again, I just wanted to thank Mark for traveling to PA for the install. It was a great experience for me. I am off this morning but when I get back, I predict lots of listening. Thanks again Mark.

Congratulations Mike ! :)

Art

I bet it's pretty awesome to have a sound expert install a semi-custom setup in your room.

But then you wouldn't have to tweak your system all the time, and where's the fun in that? :-)

Mark, I'll be contacting you in 10 years or so. :-)

I'm back in Chicago for a short time, and I'm pretty happy with the experience we achieved in Mike's small, untreated room. I know Mike is headed out of town tomorrow, so I'll answer the question to him breifly. Mike has been hunting me down for a while now, and he caught me early on and got a little bit of a break over what I would normally charge, but he was very patient and knew these are early production units. The SubMersive itself is $1995, the QSC DSP-30 is ~$500, about $50 in quality ballanced cables, plus my services. My optimization of a system runs anywhere from $500-$1000 plus approximate travel expenses.

Wow, that's close to $4000 when it's all said and done. You should be a millionaire in a few years. ;)

To become a millionaire that quickly he will have to forget pre-sales, after-sales, stop eating, sleep on the plane and sell tons of his subwoofers. ;)


I'm still waiting on my twin SubMersives. :)

Mark, any idea when the other finishes for the SubMersive will be ready?
Still waiting for a reply..

Welcome to the club Mike..... =-)

So we now have 4 AVS'ers with submerssives? Looks like a slow start...

So we now have 4 AVS'ers with submerssives? Looks like a slow start...

But those 4 AVS'ers own a combined 8 submersives :D

What are the approx physical dimensions of these beasts?

What are the approx physical dimensions of these beasts?
W17.5" x 24"(with grills) x 24.75" (plus 3/4" tall feet)
The weight is between 110-120lbs. It accutally does not look that big in my room. Just a bit taller then what I had before.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/CarlosMeat/Seatonsallin01a.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/CarlosMeat/Seatonsallin01a.jpg
You know Art, there is no need to rub it in :D. I am on vacation but I am looking forward to getting back and really giving my "upgraded" system a good run through. I still can't believe how much the overall SQ changed after Mark did his magic on the cross over and delay times. I will say it again, anyone looking for a powerfull excelent sounding sub, HAS to do their best to get one of these.

I was just responding to the fact that a few of us have all of the Submersives right now.

Art

What's in that picture, exactly?

What's in that picture, exactly?
The L/C/R's are prototype Seaton XL's. MS described them a few pages back. They are active, internally bi-amp'd speakers, with dual 12" woofers and a coaxial mid-tweeter.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877&page=4&pp=30

The sub's are obviously 4 Submersives. I soooooo want to vist Art's theater.

Craig

This is "insane". I thought I will stop looking after dual f113's but TheEar's infections is becoming very contagious with terminal upgraditis/bassitis infection. I will check back later. Don't do this to us Mark :).

I was just responding to the fact that a few of us have all of the Submersives right now.

Art
Art, you know I was joking right? :) I can't begin to imagine what that must sound like. How are Mark's main speakers. They do look pretty serious. I never thought I would be on vacation and look forward to getting back home.

The L/C/R's are prototype Seaton XL's. MS described them a few pages back. They are active, internally bi-amp'd speakers, with dual 12" woofers and a coaxial mid-tweeter.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877&page=4&pp=30

The sub's are obviously 4 Submersives. I soooooo want to vist Art's theater.

Craig

Correct ! I'm going to be updating my website with Mark's new stuff as well as a few things that have happened in my theater in the last few months.

I hope to have another get together for the forum in the fall so I hope to see you there. :)

Art

Correct ! I'm going to be updating my website with Mark's new stuff as well as a few things that have happened in my theater in the last few months.

I hope to have another get together for the forum in the fall so I hope to see you there. :)

Art
I would make that drive for sure! Keep me in mind, if you would please.

Craig

OK.
I was able to watch a movie last night. I put in WOTW. OH MY :eek:. I am speechless. It was just incredible. The lightning was much better then my older sub. But from the emergence through the attack it was an entirely new level. I had a big grin from ear to ear. I was getting a bit scared because of the power of this thing. But the SQ is just off the chart. I have heard a good number of subs. At my old store I would sit and watch movies all day in their theaters so I have had experiences with some high end subs. They include Martin Logan Decent($2700), The original Dynaudio Contour sub($3000), The original Wilson Audio Watch Dog ($9950), B&W ASW3000($3000?). Not to mention my own Def Tech power field 15($699) and JM Labs SW900($1750). But the best out of everything I have ever heard has been the JM Labs Utopia Be Sub($6000). That is the first sub that actually scared me when I was listening to it. It is a fantastic sounding sub with a ton of output. I can tell you that just this one movie has convinced me that the SubMersive is equal to the task.

What I need to do now is watch some of the movies that I have seen in that store. I can not stress this enough. Just after watching one movie I am convinced of the quality of this sub. The overall performance is not out done by any of the subs I just mentioned. I felt as though my entire room was moving. When the Tripod came out of the ground it felt like it was in the room. And that death ray was insane. On my SW900 I thought it sounded good. With this, I really thought that I should duck. I don't know what else I can say. I will watch a few more movies this week and post some more thoughts. I can say that I am very satisfied and I have no "I should have...." thoughts in my head.

Mike,

Obviously the submersive is a killer sub, but I'd like to ask how much of your performace improvement is due to the tweaks Mark made to your system and that maybe you were coming from a not so great sub?

Valid point. I would first say that my previous sub was a fine performer. It only lacked in real deep bass. It could belt out 110db cleanly on many movies. But it stopped dead right above 20Hz. Yes, Mark tweaked my system. He adjusted a few things like delay times and cross over frequency. And I can tell you that made a difference. In WOTW I already heard things I did not hear before. But that was in the other speakers. But I have no doubt that the sub is playing a big part in the overall sound quality increase I am experiencing. No matter how Mark would have tweaked my theater, there is no way I would have this sound with my old sub. Now, do you need Mark to install this sub for you? Obviously not. I am sure that you could get fantastic sound from it on your own. The only reason I had Mark do the install was because I was physically unable to do it myself. It is just so much more powerful. I do see your point. But trust me, the sub has allot to do with what I am hearing.

Jim,
Let me just add one more item. Last night, when I was watching WOTW something happened that never happened before. My HT room is in a house on the second floor. The kitchen is on the first floor on the other side of the house. During the beginning when the pods emerge and the fun begins the room was shaking. For the first time, I was told that there were glasses in the kitchen that were shaking. I have played that movie plenty of times and while it has gotten loud, I was never told that before. This was with the door the the room shut, plus another door that sort of separates off part of the upstairs shut. To say I was impressed was an understatement.

Where are the pics?

-Eli

Sounds like we're going to need some new construction methods to keep from destroying one's home. Detached, on slab, concrete block walls, 90 amp service to go along with the popcorn machine.

Where are the pics?

-Eli
I am lazy :p. I still need to get them of my digital camera.

Sounds like we're going to need some new construction methods to keep from destroying one's home. Detached, on slab, concrete block walls, 90 amp service to go along with the popcorn machine.
If you know anything about me and how I post, I try not to shovel it too deep. I like to keep a level head and not fall into the trap of just slinging hyperbola for the heck of it. But the fact remains that this is the best sub I have heard or owned.

Jim,
Let me just add one more item. Last night, when I was watching WOTW something happened that never happened before. My HT room is in a house on the second floor. The kitchen is on the first floor on the other side of the house. During the beginning when the pods emerge and the fun begins the room was shaking. For the first time, I was told that there were glasses in the kitchen that were shaking. I have played that movie plenty of times and while it has gotten loud, I was never told that before. This was with the door the the room shut, plus another door that sort of separates off part of the upstairs shut. To say I was impressed was an understatement.

Yes ,second floor theaters add some unique pluses and minuses. The second floor theater allows some incredible visceral effects from the whole room moving but my daughters lights blow out during movies from the vibration of her bedroom ceiling. :eek: :D

Art

I hope she is not in the room or you have a canopy to catch the falling glass :D. I guess there is allot of vacuuming in that room.

Subs that break stuff.....cool. :D

The lights blow out they don't explode. I guess that's an old expression from an old guy. :o
Art

If you know anything about me and how I post, I try not to shovel it too deep. I like to keep a level head and not fall into the trap of just slinging hyperbola for the heck of it. But the fact remains that this is the best sub I have heard or owned.

Hi mike,

I'm glad you're enjoying your sub. How close are your neighbors?
Do they feel your sub? I'm afraid to ask mine. Because, that will open the
door, for reducing the sub's output. Is there anyway of telling how the neighbor
is feeling it. You just can't go outside and see how loud it is, because you
may not hear it - but you feel it. I also, don't want to do the opposite. I lower
it, thinking I'm bothering my neighbors, but I'm not. Are side yards here are
very narrow. Probably- 25' between houses. Would a SPL meter help?
Maybe, I should make this topic a thread? I think I will?

Gadget - If it bothers them, they'll let you know. :D

Hi mike,

I'm glad you're enjoying your sub. How close are your neighbors?
Do they feel your sub? I'm afraid to ask mine. Because, that will open the
door, for reducing the sub's output. Is there anyway of telling how the neighbor
is feeling it. You just can't go outside and see how loud it is, because you
may not hear it - but you feel it. I also, don't want to do the opposite. I lower
it, thinking I'm bothering my neighbors, but I'm not. Are side yards here are
very narrow. Probably- 25' between houses. Would a SPL meter help?
Maybe, I should make this topic a thread? I think I will?
I am in a single house. I don't think there is any way I could affect the house next to me. That is not the problem. The problem is the people in the house with me :D. When I start to affect houses other then the one I am in, that is the point where I will probably be taken away :p.

Gadget - If it bothers them, they'll let you know. :D

Luckily, the people next door moved. They were complainers. They use to
complain when I had a Bose Lifestyle system. "Your subwoofer is knocking my
wife out of bed".

Mark wrote this "What should also be noted is that for $999 for a pair this then translates to the equivalent of 6dB more at 2m, or 103-104dB @ 20Hz, and >115dB above 35Hz."


So how will these subs compare to this SubMersive.....what can we expect performance and $$$$ wise?

Mark wrote this "What should also be noted is that for $999 for a pair this then translates to the equivalent of 6dB more at 2m, or 103-104dB @ 20Hz, and >115dB above 35Hz."


So how will these subs compare to this SubMersive.....what can we expect performance and $$$$ wise?

I will PM you some quotes from Mark.

I don't want to hijack their Submersive thread.

Mark wrote this "What should also be noted is that for $999 for a pair this then translates to the equivalent of 6dB more at 2m, or 103-104dB @ 20Hz, and >115dB above 35Hz."

So how will these subs compare to this SubMersive.....what can we expect performance and $$$$ wise?

The quote above is in reference to the MFW-15 I designed for AV123 to produce and sell. This was designed as a high value subwoofer that will be built in much larger quantities. Physically it is not much smaller than my SubMersive. It takes two MFW-15s to match the output of a single SubMersive above ~17-18Hz, and the SubMersive still has lower compression and has useful output to a much lower frequency. The amplifier of the SubMersive alone contributes more cost than a pair of MFW-15s for many reasons.

They are very different animals, at completely different price and performance/size ratios. The SubMersive has much more extended and an overall flatter response with 2x the output per its size. The MFW-15 will be a great value, where those who might want a single SubMersive but can't justify $1995 for a subwoofer can spend $999 for a pair of very nice looking and quite impressive sounding subwoofers that are right on the heels of what the SubMersive does.

Mark sounds like 2 really good values.

So really $2000 buys you a single Submersive......or 4 MFw-15s.... :)

So Dollar for Dollar how would that match up fair?

Mark sounds like 2 really good values.

So really $2000 buys you a single Submersive......or 4 MFw-15s.... :)

So Dollar for Dollar how would that match up fair?
Didn't he just said it? :confused:

"The MFW-15 will be a great value, where those who might want a single SubMersive but can't justify $1995 for a subwoofer can spend $999 for a pair of very nice looking and quite impressive sounding subwoofers that are right on the heels of what the SubMersive does."

Didn't he just said it? :confused:

"The MFW-15 will be a great value, where those who might want a single SubMersive but can't justify $1995 for a subwoofer can spend $999 for a pair of very nice looking and quite impressive sounding subwoofers that are right on the heels of what the SubMersive does."


So if Duals are right on the heals.........Dual DUALS would have the submersive trying to catch up...

So if Duals are right on the heals.........Dual DUALS would have the submersive trying to catch up...
Yes, four would provide 6 dB more output than two (assuming co-located).

Dual DUALS would have the submersive trying to catch up...

The term "Dual Duals" is a first for me. LMAO...

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu
So if Duals are right on the heals.........Dual DUALS would have the submersive trying to catch up...
I don't think that's what Mark inferred or I would read this in a much different way.. Four may give you more SPL but...
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton
...The amplifier of the SubMersive alone contributes more cost than a pair of MFW-15s for many reasons....

...The SubMersive has much more extended and an overall flatter response with 2x the output per its size....
From this statement and IMO the overall edge still goes to the SubMersvie for frequency response (band width), sound quality and real estate (the SM requires less room space by a factor of 2).

While two MFW-15s may make some economic sense if your after SPL, the use of four is and exercise in diminishing returns. I would take the added frequency response and sound quality of the SubMersive any day over increased SPL.

OK.
I finally have some pics to post. I hope you like them :). I was able to watch T3 this weekend. WOW. It was simply incredible. I noticed a difference from my last sub right away. There were times with my old sub where I could notice compression and distortion. Not with this sub. Just loud, clean, room pounding bass. I am glad I went this route.

Here is another one. It does look real nice all in black. And what is really cool is that with the cover off, you can really see that driver move :D.

nice Mike! congrats. Looks terrific and i'm sure it sounds like one too!

Thanks. Yea, it sounds killer. I am very satisfied with this purchase.

Looks great Mike. Does it still sound as good as when Mark set things up? Have you made any changes? Also, have you listened to any multi-channel music on it yet? I've found the bass on many MC recordings to be significantly better than their stereo counterparts. Steely Dan's Gaucho has become my personal music reference disc.

Craig

Thanks Craig. I am not making any more changes. No need to mess with perfection.
So yea, it still sounds killer. . I have a few MC disks I could try, but I have not yet. But I am still in the "learning" phase of what this can do and what my room can
take :D.

Looks great Mike. Does it still sound as good as when Mark set things up? Have you made any changes? Also, have you listened to any multi-channel music on it yet? I've found the bass on many MC recordings to be significantly better than their stereo counterparts. Steely Dan's Gaucho has become my personal music reference disc.

Craig

*** cut and moved to OT discussion***
:D

Thanks Craig. I am not making any more changes. No need to mess with perfection.
So yea, it still sounds killer. . I have a few MC disks I could try, but I have not yet. But I am still in the "learning" phase of what this can do and what my room can
take :D.
Don't break your room! :D :D :D

Craig

Hi Craig, Interesting regarding the bass on cd vs multichannel. I recently noticed the improvement in bass quality after picking up my SACD player. Not only does the SACD "side" have more dynamics, it seems to not "ring" or sound bloated. Now I'm still fairly new to all this but does this have something to do with the fact DSD is fairly close at reproducing a "square" wave? I recently took a vist to a local hi fi shop and spoke to one of the veterans of the store who used to work for a sub company. He went on to make some pretty wierd claims regarding a/b auditioning and that the human brain is really good at remember sound quality :rolleyes: , having a speaker or other cone(in this case the example was just having a subwoofer unpowered sitting in the room) in the room of a 2 channel system can alter the sound quite a bit and thus why they don't recommend A/Bing (kind of goes against everything I've observed myself and on these forums). Another one was that he mentioned quite a few audiophiles will spend $20k on a turntable, maybe a couple $1000 on an amplificatino and only a couple $1000 on the speakers (instead of the bulk of the money on the speakers).Another thing he really went on about was timeing and how it was "everything" for a system to sound "realistic". I'm fairly good at telling when someone is feeding me bs and lieing, this guy wasn't lieing...if it was mumbo jumbo I was getting fed he was passionate and sincere about it, not trying to sell or push me towards any product.

In regards to the Sinewave vs Squarewave, is this what plays the largest role in percieved quality of the bass signal? I used to think my CD's were the bread and butter of music now I find a lot sound like lousy radio or crummy mp3s in comparison to some of my SACDs. I'm in Vancouver so most of the record stores we have here in vancouver are the HMV chain, they all recently stopped carrying SACDs :(

From a buisness perspective I can understand why they dont sell, but it is a shame that it's becoming increasingly hard to find them.

swerveddy,

Since none of the *interesting* questions or comments you pose are related to the Seaton Sound Submersive, let's take the OT discussion to PM's or another thread.

Thanks.

Craig

Don't break your room! :D :D :D

Craig
I'll be good. I promise ;).

swerveddy,

Since none of the *interesting* questions or comments you pose are related to the Seaton Sound Submersive, let's take the OT discussion to PM's or another thread.

Thanks.

Craig


sounds good

How goes the production process Mark? I'm dying from upgraditis. :D

OK, this might sound a bit ridiculous, but how would one of these things compare to the Velo DD1812? I know it is WAY lopsided in terms of price, but a buddy of mine is in love with the 1812, and I am wondering if this thing might be a way to save him a bunch of money without giving up SQ.

So my specific questions are...
1) Has anyone heard both this and the Velo 1812?
1a) Were they in the same room to compare? If not, how far apart time-wise were the listening sessions?
2) If so, what are your impressions in terms of SQ and output? Actually more interested in hearing about SQ...

Mark, if you have input that you don't want to post, PM it to me, and I'll keep it between us.

This is not a troll at all... I am serious.

And my expectation is that a $2k sub shouldn't be able to compete heads up with one costing several times that, but part of me would love to be wrong.

Thanks

OK, this might sound a bit ridiculous, but how would one of these things compare to the Velo DD1812? I know it is WAY lopsided in terms of price, but a buddy of mine is in love with the 1812, and I am wondering if this thing might be a way to save him a bunch of money without giving up SQ.

So my specific questions are...
1) Has anyone heard both this and the Velo 1812?
1a) Were they in the same room to compare? If not, how far apart time-wise were the listening sessions?
2) If so, what are your impressions in terms of SQ and output? Actually more interested in hearing about SQ...

Mark, if you have input that you don't want to post, PM it to me, and I'll keep it between us.

This is not a troll at all... I am serious.

And my expectation is that a $2k sub shouldn't be able to compete heads up with one costing several times that, but part of me would love to be wrong.

Thanks

The Submersive should be able to come extremely close to the 1812, if not beat it.
If your friend is so in love with it, tell him that he should just get 2 DD18s instead. Cheaper and has much more output. 2 18s > 18" and 12"
In my opinion, 2 JL audio F113s, 2 DD18s, or 2 Submersives should be at the top of your friend's list. the 1812 is just an overpriced item from Velodyne.

Also.. My experience from Velodyne has mixed emotions. My DLS-5000R's amp died after only 2 years of use. The amp died for no reason at all. Worked one night, in the mroning it didn't. Tough when it did work it worked well, and the amp was replaced fairly quickly and it works now.

Now I know you're thinking.. "Hey, it's the DLS-5000R, it's a crappy subwoofer, nowhere near the DDs or HGS series!" I've tried to acquire a DD18 from dealer's in my area, but every dealer I've been to says they do not stock them anymore because of customers coming back every year or 2 to have their amps replaced.

I just thought I would mention this to you, as I am no longer going to buy Velodyne products to use in my home theaters.

DO NOT take this as a way of bashing Velodyne. I am just trying to give some advice, as there is no reason a DLS-5000R should die in my 1375 cu ft room.

double post.

OK, I'll expand the scope a little bit.... anyone compared the Submersive to an F112 or F113? Still hoping for a direct compare with 1812, but am primarily concerned with SQ.

Thanks

As far as SQ goes for the SubMersive, I can say that it is first rate. I have not heard the JL subs but I have heard quite a few high end subs. This one can compete with all that I have heard. Only a few people have them right now. I can say with some confidence that the SubMersive will not be out played SPL wise when compared to the F113. From what Mark has shared with me, the two are at least equal. The few people who have the sub all say the same thing. SQ is top shelf.

Just hooked up two new Submersives in place of my prior pair of James EMB15s

Even without dialing in new PEQ, these are amazing subs. Tight, terrific tone, fast, and lots of headroom.

Two of them. Nice :). I feel so left out because I have only one :(. Looking forward to hearing some more of your thoughts on them. I think people are tired of just hearing me :p. How big is your room?

As far as SQ goes for the SubMersive, I can say that it is first rate. I have not heard the JL subs but I have heard quite a few high end subs. This one can compete with all that I have heard. Only a few people have them right now. I can say with some confidence that the SubMersive will not be out played SPL wise when compared to the F113. From what Mark has shared with me, the two are at least equal. The few people who have the sub all say the same thing. SQ is top shelf.

Now Mark needs to offer them for sale to those outside the USA ...and offer the ADD TO CART option. ;) Unless I am blind amd missed the site.

With shipping and duty the Submersive should cost around the same price I got my Fathom f113 here in Canada.I would get at least one for the fact I would have a Mark Seaton designed high quality sealed sub.

I am sure he is trying his hardest to get all that worked out. I know that he wants to try and get this thing really moving. Hopefully he can find some time to get that site up.

Mark, any updates? I am subless and my 2 SubMersives are almost 6 months overdue.. :)

so all you owners have pre production models?

is this thing basically vaporware?

It is not vaporware. I do have a preproduction model but that is only because I was really in from the beginning. I know Mark is also dealing with other people. I would assume that they would get a "production" model. But really, who cares. The matt black finish looks good enough for me.

Mark had a truck load of illegal aliens for to work his plant but they were rounded up, thus some delays in production.


Art

It appears that he has an on-line forum now:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound

It appears that he has an on-line forum now:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound
He sent me that as well just this morning. Should be a nice place. Just wait until the site itself comes online. That should be real nice.

It appears that he has an on-line forum now:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound

Well that sure didn't take all of you long to find! Only yesterday did I add that to exactly ONE location, being my profile on AV123's forum. :rolleyes:

I was intending to let people know about it tomorrow or Friday as I still want to add a few more general messages and information, but it's open and functional, so all are welcome.

The forum will be where I will keep the most up to date information and where I will discuss some of the custom and projects I have worked on, as well as some less HT, but still audio related fun. Having the dedicated forum will allow an outlet for discussion and announcements that do not belong here on the support forums of AVS. Just as has been done with other products, this thread can continue to be a place for discussion of the SubMersive here on AVS.

Mark, any updates? I am subless and my 2 SubMersives are almost 6 months overdue.. :)

Hi Ettepet,

While the SubMersive is fully certified and capable of use over the pond, shipping to the Netherlands caused me some pause as I have worked with the first few production runs as I wanted to first get additional real world testing of packing and the product in use. There have been subtle refinements I have made in the manufacturing end that will make me more confident in servicing overseas users. SubMersives available to ship overseas I will be about 3-4 weeks out.

Thanks for your patience.

While the SubMersive is fully certified and capable of use over the pond, shipping to the Netherlands caused me some pause as I have worked with the first few production runs as I wanted to first get additional real world testing of packing and the product in use. There have been subtle refinements I have made in the manufacturing end that will make me more confident in servicing overseas users. SubMersives available to ship overseas I will be about 3-4 weeks out.

Thanks for your patience.
No problem, this gives me just enough time to announce my departure from our local SA (=Subwoofer Anonymous) self help group. :D

Just received our new SubMersive. Thanks Mark. I am way early on the subwoofer learning curve. The first effort was to hook it up and watch Hunt for Red October. Even without any calibration, it sure added another dimension to the movie.

Best
Ray

Mark, performance wise, between the BMF and the Submersive, what should have the upper hand. And when is the BMF finally going to be released.

Just received our new SubMersive. Thanks Mark. I am way early on the subwoofer learning curve. The first effort was to hook it up and watch Hunt for Red October. Even without any calibration, it sure added another dimension to the movie.

Best
Ray
A big congrats. Once you get it all setup properly, it will be killer. Post back when everything is in oder.

Mark, performance wise, between the BMF and the Submersive, what should have the upper hand. And when is the BMF finally going to be released.

I believe the Submersive is supposed to have the upper hand.
But with 4 BMF's I believe the Submersive will be beat.

I believe the Submersive is supposed to have the upper hand.
But with 4 BMF's I believe the Submersive will be beat.

Who said anything about 4 BMF's. I'm talking about a comparison between the two.

Who said anything about 4 BMF's. I'm talking about a comparison between the two.

Pricewise, the BMF is $1000 a pair. I assumed you would have known that which is why I compared 4 vs. the Submersive.

one on one, Submersive.
2x BMFs vs. Submersive, Submersive would win, by a few decibles.

Pricewise, the BMF is $1000 a pair. I assumed you would have known that which is why I compared 4 vs. the Submersive.

one on one, Submersive.
2x BMFs vs. Submersive, Submersive would win, by a few decibles.

Your are confusing the BMF with the MFW15. The BMF is a sub with a 15inch woofer and 2 18inch passive radaitors. The MFW15 is a single ported 15.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=15788

Your are confusing the BMF with the MFW15. The BMF is a sub with a 15inch woofer and 2 18inch passive radaitors. The MFW15 is a single ported 15.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=15788

Oh. I apologize.. I haven't been hearing much talk about the BMF so I assumed the MFW-15 would be what you were talking about since that was the only other project I thought Mark was working on.


I would think the BMF would beat the Submersive. Has radiators which should give it an edge.

Your are confusing the BMF with the MFW15. The BMF is a sub with a 15inch woofer and 2 18inch passive radaitors. The MFW15 is a single ported 15.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=15788

Correct me but the BMF uses(will/may use?) two side PR's and a higher tuned frontal PR.The active sitting inside teh cabinet.


And I do not follow the BMF like some do...

Correct me but the BMF uses(will/may use?) two side PR's and a higher tuned frontal PR.The active sitting inside teh cabinet.


And I do not follow the BMF like some do...

If someone had subs like yours, who would anyways?

Correct me but the BMF uses(will/may use?) two side PR's and a higher tuned frontal PR.The active sitting inside teh cabinet.

TheEAR is correct. Spezzy had confused the MFW-15 for the BMF.

So back to my question, when is the BMF going to be ready. For the last week, I have been fighting myself to make the call to SVS and order a new Ultra, but since all these new subs are coming out I continue to wait. I want to see what Craigsub says about the Def Tech Trinity, or find a F113 on the used market, but the BMF really interests me. There have been several AV123 products that have interested me, but have passed on them, because of the amount of time it finally takes, before they are released.

There have been several AV123 products that have interested me, but have passed on them, because of the amount of time it finally takes, before they are released.I wouldn't expect the BMF to buck the trend. I'd guess its at least 6 months or more away from release.

Mark, performance wise, between the BMF and the Submersive, what should have the upper hand. And when is the BMF finally going to be released.

Hi dback',

The SubMersive is notably smaller than the BMF, and is designed to fit much more easily into dedicated theaters and the occasionaly living space. The BMF, while far from the largest sub on the market, has larger dimensions and is not as easily concealed. It goes the way of nice veneers and gives you a little more output in the 18-25Hz region.

I honestly would be guessing if I stated a production date. I can say is that it won't be available before September, but things are in motion to make it happen soon after the MFW-15 is in production. The BMF is being built in AV123's new Cali, Colombia factory. They have had some backlogs with the production of the x-series and have been making changes necessary to accomodate all the products intended for production there.

So far as comparisons, let's keep in perspective that even the SubMersive should meet or exceed most capabilities of the F113 spare the auto-EQ. The SubMersive is extremely well behaved in its dynamic range, which I would say is one of its identifying qualities along with the ability to be used down to and below 10Hz in enclosed rooms. From all that I have seen, the SubMersive is still unique in that this regard. Subjectively my own biased oppinion is that the attack, perceived depth/extension, and responsiveness of the SubMersive make for a unique experience that I have not found in other products.

The majority of rooms are best driven from at least 2 subwoofer locations. I had this squarely in mind when designing the SubMersive. The size makes it rather easy to fit behind screen walls and in other spaces. It can also be set on the closed side so the height is 18" + amp connection, and they can be special ordered in the low height configuration. There is also no concern with any coupled vibration from the enclosure as when at full tilt, the SubMersive's cabinet will be the most stable item in the room. ;)

The BMF is meant to compete with the larger vented boxes on the market while offering a subjectively very clean sound with the unique alignment with the 3 18" PRs. It is large and will serve well to fill larger or open rooms and offers amazing bang/buck in smaller rooms with it's somewhat higher output below 25-30Hz. In larger rooms you can often get away with more placement options with fewer acoustic problems, where in smaller and more confined rooms subwoofer placement can be much more critical. The BMF will have limited placement options in some rooms, just as the other large subwoofers on the market do.

On a cost basis, the BMF will likely appear to be the better value to many here. I do think that when maximum performance is the goal in a dedicated room, a sufficient quantity of SubMersives will offer ultimately more impressive performance, albeit at a higher cost, and I'm just fine with that. :cool:

Additionally: The best place for additional information on the SubMersive is my own Seaton Sound Forum, or AV123's forum for info on the BMF.

I wouldn't expect the BMF to buck the trend. I'd guess its at least 6 months or more away from release.

The only thing that could have any chance of holdly the BMF up that long are the electronics, and I highly doubt that. It will certainly come out this year, hopefully before most northern states see snow.

Thanks for the reply Mark, I am enclosing a picture of my current sub location, since I have been told that this is not usually a good location placement for a sub. Since the room is open to the kitchen and a hallway and on the side where the sub is, my corner has a sliding glass door, so I am limited to placement. It does sound good in this location for my sweet spot, but move from there and goodbye sound. I do have a corner in the back of the room that I think would be good, but would need to cut more holes in the wall to run cables. But if I do decide to go with a bigger sub such as the BMF of Submersive, I can hide in the back corner fairly well.

The only thing that could have any chance of holdly the BMF up that long are the electronics, and I highly doubt that. It will certainly come out this year, hopefully before most northern states see snow.Well, that's good... :D

btw: Happy Birthday! :cool:

I am sorry but the more I read on the Submersive1, the more I drool.

The Submersive is a fine product. I have had mine for a few weeks now. I have a 2200 sq' home with the majority of the home open through half walls and open halls and doorways. The HT area is approximately 2500 cubic feet, but has numerous openings to other areas of the home. I am using the Submersive and a Paradigm Servo 15a V1 diagonally across the room. I am using a SMS for equalization. I do not have everything finalized for sub positions. I do not currently have any acoustic treatments in place. I have not calibrated the subs hot and I have not been listening at "reference" but more at 5-10db below reference at highest volumes.

Though far from having my system setup optimally, the Submersive has worked very, very well for both music and HT. As an aside, I accidentally ran volume up higher than intended on a DISH source last night when I changed channels. I could see the protective screen flexing on my 64" Elite RPTV. I fumbled with the remote to quickly drop the volume, so I can't speak to what the settings were, but I will be more careful in the future for volume levels on changing sources.

Will

Glad to see another happy user. I made a similar duh moment as a well. I had the system cranked way to loud during the intro to the core. Needless to say, I will be more careful now. I have to agree again that it is a great sounding and great performing sub.

I am sorry but the more I read on the Submersive1, the more I drool.
That is a common side affect. The ONLY know remedy is to get one. But there are several side affects. More Drool. Possible structural damage and a constant smile :D.
Well worth all of those if you ask me.

just jumpin' in on this thread...

It's a good place to jump:) Here is a frequency response of the sub in my room
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2106887&trail=20#17
That is eq'ed by Mark with a DSP30. As you can see, no loss of low bass output.
http://home.comcast.net/~mark_seaton/public-pictures/MikeDuke_wEQ.jpg

The above graph is just the sub after eq and no other speakers.

The Subermsives (I have two) are amazing. Very fast and tight. Zero compression at anything remotely close to pain level listening levels.

I had to greatly lower test volumes when running REQ measurment signals because at the high volumes those beasts produce the rafters, light sockets, DVD cases, screen, and projector were all rattling like a Disney ride.

I have to agree again. These are really fantastic subs. I am impressed with the SQ. Every movie I listen to sounds fantastic. I can listen to it at high levels without any pain at all. Just crisp clean bass.

I really wish they were available with a nicer finish. Oh well, maybe next year.

I really wish they were available with a nicer finish. Oh well, maybe next year.

I had been of the same opinion. Mark has indicated that custom finishes can be done but at a longer lead time and upcharge depending on finish. I decided to go ahead with the standard. I actually was pleasantly surprised with the appearance. It is a subdued flat finish, but to me is better looking than I anticipated from the pictures. The sub is not small, but the impression it makes is not a big box look. Before getting it, I had thoughts of adding a veneer or placing an oriental, Mideastern, or Native American rug on the top and face. While these are still doable possibilities, I have not felt this is particularly needed. This sub is really stable, so you can have some standing artwork or lamp on top without worrying about them creeping or tipping over.

We all are quite fortunate for the quality of sub performance and dollar value available to us from a number of manufacturers. There were a number of different subs I considered, but I am very pleased with the sound and performance of the Submersive.

Regards,
Will

I agree with the finish. I got an early production model and it is a flat mat black. I happen to think that it looks nice. In the above post I edited it so everyone can see what Mark's measurement was in my room instead of my just cobbled together chart. If I had not said it before, I really like this sub:D. My room is small and I am not alone in the house so I am unable to really crank my system. Typically I do not go louder then -17db. I was at -18db the other night and I watched disk two of The Fellowship of The Ring. I got a visit to my room, which is on the second floor and was told that it sounded like an earthquake downstairs:eek:.

So what's the latest on these?
Any other users care to post up?

I don't know why not too many people have posted. I think Mark has about 40-50 subs out there. Many people have more then one. Not because you need to, simply because they want to. On Marks forum there are people that post more. I can say again, that I am a happy camper. I watched Live Free or Die Hard. It was outrageously good. All of the big scenes sounded loud and clean. Every movie I watch that is bass friendly, sounds great.
I really hate to be the only guy posting this stuff. From the other forum, I know that everyone who has one is very happy. At this point it has not been "independently" tested. But I think in a few months avtalk will be testing one.
I know there are allot of subs out there now getting press. With the Ed and the Epik, it is easy to forget about this one. That would be a mistake in my opinion. I don't think anybody would be disappointed in this sub. Mark really hit a home run IMO.

So what's the latest on these?
Any other users care to post up?

Well, this is the first sub I have owned so I don't have a lot to compare it to. I do know that it has far exceeded any expectations that I might have had. Base is clear and deep. Movies come really alive. I never realized that you felt base as well as hearing it before. That surprised me. I have not read anything negative about these subs. I am very happy.

Ray

Let me just add one thing. This is one of the only subs that has ever scared me. When I watch WOTW, I can get scared. When I watch Master and Comander I can get scared. When I watch I-Robot I can get scared. I think I am making my point. Unlike Ray, this is my third sub so I have some comparison. Plus I have heard many, what some would call top flight subs. I have heard B&W asw3000($2999), Dynaudio contour($2999), Velodyne HGS-18(?), Wilson Audio Watchdog($9999), Martain Logan Decent($2790). Plus I have heard the $6000 JM Labs Sub Utopia Be. Up until the the time I got this sub, that was the best I have ever heard. The SubMersive is THE ONLY sub I have ever heard that has scared me like the Utopia. The SubMersive is the best I have heard.

I would love to see a Submersive tested by anyone who tests subs, whether it be Craig, Ilkka, or the gang at AV talks.

I agree that a test by avtalk or Ilkka would be great. Let me just add a few more things. I promise. Although I am very very pleased with the SubMersive, it is not meant to be all things to all people. This sub was designed to work its best in any enclosed room. That does not mean it can not work in an open floor plan, it just means that this sub really shines in an room with boundries all arround.
Also, most of these other subs that are hot now are ported. So, naturaly at and near the port tune, they will have more output. But on either side of the tune, Mark's sub will not be out played that much, if at all. OK That's all for tonight :).

I've got two Submersives and couldn't be happier. Incredible with music -- over the weekend I had the USC Marching Band's Drum Corp in the room with me via Tusk. Great power on theater. Pretty reasonable form factor given their power. And terrific customer service.

I'm considering two more: dual mono stereo subs!

I've got two Submersives and couldn't be happier. Incredible with music -- over the weekend I had the USC Marching Band's Drum Corp in the room with me via Tusk. Great power on theater. Pretty reasonable form factor given their power. And terrific customer service.

I'm considering two more: dual mono stereo subs!
I just want to say to all of you with room for more then one of these, I really hate you:p.

I just want to say to all of you with room for more then one of these, I really hate you:p.

Ha you don't NEED room! I just moved to NYC and put my 2 submersives in a 1000sq foot apartment!

http://www.killigrew.net/images/newsetup.jpg

You're crazy. :)

1000 sq feet? Did you mean cu ft?

crazy nope.....

In fact I think mr seaton would approve:eek:

...but as we know, Mr. Seaton is a sick, sick individual.

Sweet. The problem is I do I have the room but it would place it to close too my Sony tube TV. It affects the picture to much. If I ever get a flat screen.... well who knows. My room is about 1000cf as well. One SubMersive is pretty fine in this room. On WOTW I can really have a good time without even making the sub work hard :). In that size room, 107-109dB is pretty impressive with this sub. But that is not even close to the max output of this sub in my room. That is why I don't post numbers. I can. I have a few from WOTW but they would much lower then people are used to seeing. Then people would assume(we all know what happens then) that it is the limit of the sub. When in fact, I am pushing the limit of the room.

MARK et al

A quick basic question.

Acknowledging that varying rooms have varying gain . . .

IN GENERAL
What effect do multiple subs have on OUTPUT and EXTENSION
Is there a Rule O' Thumb?

RE: PLACEMENT vis ART S's ROW O' SUBMERSIVES

How does the effect of that Line O' Subs differ from the concept
of One At Each Wall Midpoint or the concept of Stacking / Co-Locating

Are they all in same phase? or is it push pull?

I ask in the service of learning if ONE BIG SUB is better than TWO
LESS BIG SUBS.

thanks in advance

-30-

Now for the dumb question O the day. Does Mark Seaton have a webpage where I can CLICK on PURCHASE and buy the elusive SubMersive ?


Now why no SubMersive in Craig's list O subs ? The SubMersive will rank more than well,and we know Craig's tests are very popular(just look at the views).
It is FREE publicity. Unless I missed the SubMersive test.

Now for the dumb question O the day. Does Mark Seaton have a webpage where I can CLICK on PURCHASE and buy the elusive SubMersive ?


Now why no SubMersive in Craig's list O subs ? The SubMersive will rank more than well,and we know Craig's tests are very popular(just look at the views).
It is FREE publicity. Unless I missed the SubMersive test.

Mark has a forum.... you can ask about purchases there http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound

Craig hasnt gotten a submersive YET, he is in the process of reviewing one of marks other creations the MFW-15 from a v 1 2 3 So far it sounds like it is fairing pretty damm good considering the cost.:)

sandbagger,

Thanks for the link.

Craig hasnt gotten a submersive YET

hmmm...I wonder why ;)

hmmm...I wonder why ;)

I hope that ;) was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

Well I was in for the Submersive too in 2007 but no reactions on email and so on so I changed my mind in 2008 and went to ED.
The submersive looks wonderful but if I can't get one it does not make a sense to wait :confused:

hmmm...I wonder why ;)

In simplest terms, I've been extremely busy with way too many projects. Many of those projects are products for AV123 which many are waiting for. With many waiting those get top priority. There was no reason to draw more attention to the SubMersive as I was wrestling with some supplier issues in getting parts done right. As the first subwoofers from AV123 are starting to ship, I will start working through the shelved projects of my own, including streamlining production & delivery of the SubMersive and my powered main speaker designs. Many here have heard Art Sonneborn's system with 4 SubMersives, and there have been reports here and on my forum from plenty of other owners, most of whom have dedicated theaters.

Well I was in for the Submersive too in 2007 but no reactions on email and so on so I changed my mind in 2008 and went to ED.
The submersive looks wonderful but if I can't get one it does not make a sense to wait :confused:

I do appologize for the lack of response. Your comment is a great example of one of the reasons why I haven't gotten a pair of SubMersives to Craig. SubMersives have been shipping through the year. A good percentage have gone to installers who do not frequent the forums. 2008 should see some welcome changes in resources and availability.

SubMersives have been shipping through the year.

I was lucky enough to get one last year, although I don't know whether it was luck or Mark's capitulation just to get me to quit harpping at him every couple of days:) In any event, even tho this is my first sub, I am truly amazed every time I watch a movie. This sub really puts you in the middle of the action. We watched 3:10 to Yuma last night and I jumped when the train roared into the station. I heard it and felt it. Unfortunately, I am old enough to remember real steam engines and I can tell you the rumble was very real. And, I only have one SubMersive. Thanks Mark.

I thought I felt a rumble .....

I hope that ;) was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

From what Craig says it does not have anything to do with waiting on a loaner. Craig buys the subwoofers just like we do. He might get a better price since he is a volume buyer. Craig just has not bought one yet. He might be waiting for Mark to catch up before ordering one.

I just ordered two of these badboys to replace my twin martin logan decents. Im ready to rumble!!:)

Sweet. Glad to hear this. I heard the Decent before. IMHO, the SubMersive is in another league. Not that the ML is bad because it is not. The SubMersive is on another plane. Please post your thoughts on them when you get them. I will celebrate my one year install this weekend. I sarted to get interested in this sub arround Aug 2006. In Jan 2007 went to CES and met Mark. There we finalized the deal. In Mar 2008 I had the sub in my room. That time line is not meant to be a complaint. For most of that time I was busy saving up for this. I just wanted to indicate that I am glad I waited and took my time and got one of the best subs out there. I have been in heaven ever since. I have no regrets at all.

I hope that ;) was there for a reason

Mark has had a hard time just getting the ones sold produced/installed let alone a loaner. Craig will get one at some point, and then the there will be numbers to go with all the customers that are VERY happy with the sub.

Kevin ... I just saw this, so apologies for the 7 week delay. Mark knows I would purchase the sub, and that I did not ask for a loaner. Heck, remember the GTG last September ? I would not allow MLS to pay for that ... independence means just that ... the dinner for 50, the open bar, and the cigar lounge were all my treat.

Mark Seaton has a different approach with the SUBmersive - many, as he stated, go to private installers. Others go to custom installs for which Mark handles the installation, including a full system calibration.

One thing is for certain ... forget all the "sick individual" stuff about Mark Seaton - what I have learned from a couple months with a pair of MFW-15's is the man knows how to make a subwoofer sound great.

He is designing a couple subs for my new Venture, "Tweak City Audio", and I am anxious to hear what he can do in the 2 price points - neither of which he has done yet.

Think $159 and $1299 subs from Mark, and you will get the idea. :)

I just ordered two of these badboys to replace my twin martin logan decents. Im ready to rumble!!:)

In a 2300 cu.ft. room you most certainly will be shakin' things up! :cool:

The Descent is/was a very nice sounding subwoofer, albeit lower on the output scale by modern or more recent standards/expectations. I look forward to your impressions, and doubly so if you have BobL out to re-optimize the system.

I will celebrate my one year install this weekend. ... I have no regrets at all.

Thanks Mike,

When I saw your similar post over on my forum I thought it was ironic that this was pretty close to the date I left SD' and established Seaton Sound. This month brings about the 3rd birthday of Seaton Sound. At long last, many things such as better availability of products and the introduction of some full range speakers will finally come to be this year. As Craig's post hints at further, I have tons on my plate at the moment, but many more of those tasks are very close or approaching deliverable products, which is a good thing for everyone. :)

http://www.htguide.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_beerchug.gif

Can't wait to see what is coming up in the future. Getting your main speakers in more HT would certainly be a good thing:D. Busy busy busy:eek:. Good for us, tough on you. But I think that what ever you bring out, it will be top flight. Just wish I could squeeze a bit more in my room:p.

Can't wait to see what is coming up in the future. Getting your main speakers in more HT would certainly be a good thing:D. Busy busy busy:eek:. Good for us, tough on you. But I think that what ever you bring out, it will be top flight. Just wish I could squeeze a bit more in my room:p.

Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking.

Where are you in PA. I'm in East Norriton (KOP-Norristown area).

Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking.

Where are you in PA. I'm in East Norriton (KOP-Norristown area).

I am just NE of Philly(churchville). The Terraform sub just look scary good.
I think you want to really try and make space for them.
For those that are lazy(me included:p) and don't want to look for the info on this sub, here are a few links
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2438650
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2376606
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2381183

[QUOTE=LonnyE;13341156]Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking. QUOTE]

HEY, Wait your turn, "Cataylysts" take time to build :D umm,,, sorry it slipped out :o

[QUOTE=LonnyE;13341156]Hey MikeDuke,

Maybe you will get to hear some Terraforms. I may be one of Mark's next guinea pigs. Not sure if I have space for 'em though yet; we've just started talking. QUOTE]

HEY, Wait your turn, "Cataylysts" take time to build :D umm,,, sorry it slipped out :o

I think Mark is talented enough to multitask:D

Hi guys,

I'm considering if I could use the Submersive for music.
I'll be using it with some DIY prosound speakers (basically top Beyma drivers).

Would like to enquire if the submersive design is push-pull or just plain 2 drivers in a box in normal operation?

Can i confirm that the articulation of the 40-120Hz area is very good? Noticeably better than stuff like MFW-15 since the MFW-15 got quite a good review too? (i have heard stuff like PB13U which shd be around that ballpark). Not just plain SPL response but fidelity.

The submersive looks very well engineered. The amp is actually the same DSP-1000 model found in Danley's lineup. I'll be using for music solely so the only thingy lacking is variable low-pass. I'm considering i could EQ out the midbass and mids, since the DEQ2496 has a 30dB EQ range (+/-15dB), hopefully this is enough to cut out the lower mids and all together with the natural roll off of the sub.

The other sub which i'm looking at is the Danley TH-112, which has response down to 30Hz. The fidelity shd be absolutely excellent for music esp after EQ (i'll need EQ for the room anyway, house curve and preference curves etc).
It costs usd 1880 and shipping should be around the same compared to the Submersive. This I would be buying a Yamaha P2500S or P7000S locally which costs around usd399 or usd699 too (so no shipping costs here), and it has built in variable low pass (25-120Hz). Somewhat more expensive overall.

Both should be devastating good for the money? If integrated correct I think there is little doubt that the bass would sound much better than quite a lot of high-end audiophile speakers with small little woofers. :) (I tend to listen quite loudly sometimes, 95-100dB)

Any comments and pointers here before I put the $$ down for either?

Mucho appreciated! :)

On some of the multichannel and straight 2ch I listen to, the Submersive has performed great with music.
You can scan this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877&page=2
There may be some answers in there for you. It is really a great sounding sub. I think Mark would tell you that 40Hz and up, it will be hard to outdistance this sub in quantity and quality. Hopefully Mark will see this and Chime in.

On some of the multichannel and straight 2ch I listen to, the Submersive has performed great with music.
You can scan this thread

There may be some answers in there for you. It is really a great sounding sub. I think Mark would tell you that 40Hz and up, it will be hard to outdistance this sub in quantity and quality. Hopefully Mark will see this and Chime in.
Hello there Mike.

That freq graph looks great, stretches till 200Hz.

Unfortunately I need the sub here in Singapore. Shipping is of no problem (probably about usd500 max). Not getting a response from Mark though, I posted in his forum, PMed him and sent him all the emails for quite a while. Hopefully he will respons soon.

I have done the same 2100. He is probably pretty swamped with things going on right now. He has responded in the past, it just takes some time.

I have a feeling he's working on something REALLY BIG! Ill let you know how it turns out in a couple of weeks :D

Hi guys,

The last 2 weeks (and most of the year thus far) has had me a bit stretched. Many things are happening that will greatly improve this situation. You can also blame funlvr1965 for part of it as I work on his Catalysts, which will be the first production level units. ;)

The SubMersive's amplifier is fully UL & CE certified, and just requires the flip of a switch, fuse change, and different power cord to work at 230V. Shipping safely is a bigger hurdle than finding shippers. I have been working to provide me with higher confidence in that regard.

Hi guys,

I'm considering if I could use the Submersive for music.
I'll be using it with some DIY prosound speakers (basically top Beyma drivers).

Would like to enquire if the submersive design is push-pull or just plain 2 drivers in a box in normal operation?

Can i confirm that the articulation of the 40-120Hz area is very good? Noticeably better than stuff like MFW-15 since the MFW-15 got quite a good review too? (i have heard stuff like PB13U which shd be around that ballpark). Not just plain SPL response but fidelity.

The submersive looks very well engineered. The amp is actually the same DSP-1000 model found in Danley's lineup. I'll be using for music solely so the only thingy lacking is variable low-pass. I'm considering i could EQ out the midbass and mids, since the DEQ2496 has a 30dB EQ range (+/-15dB), hopefully this is enough to cut out the lower mids and all together with the natural roll off of the sub.

The other sub which i'm looking at is the Danley TH-112, which has response down to 30Hz. The fidelity shd be absolutely excellent for music esp after EQ (i'll need EQ for the room anyway, house curve and preference curves etc).
It costs usd 1880 and shipping should be around the same compared to the Submersive. This I would be buying a Yamaha P2500S or P7000S locally which costs around usd399 or usd699 too (so no shipping costs here), and it has built in variable low pass (25-120Hz). Somewhat more expensive overall.

Both should be devastating good for the money? If integrated correct I think there is little doubt that the bass would sound much better than quite a lot of high-end audiophile speakers with small little woofers. :) (I tend to listen quite loudly sometimes, 95-100dB)

Any comments and pointers here before I put the $$ down for either?

Mucho appreciated! :)


Hi 2100,

I just sent you an e-mail response answering most of these questions. Sorry again for the delayed response.

For those interested in my answer to the above questions, below is a partial clip from my e-mail to 2100. He did note that his room is about 4.5 x 3.5m in the email when you read "his room" below.

So far as the music performance, that was a primary goal in my design of the SubMersive. The same qualities that provide impressive dynamics, responsiveness and agility make movie soundtracks more dramatic and impactful. Just yesterday I pulled out my old copy of the Manger demo disk which has some highly impressive bass dynamics. By the time the CD ended I was similing broadly for reminding myself of the work I put in to make the SubMersive not just a wall-shaker, but a subwoofer capable of huge dynamics and detail right to it's limits, which are admittedly very high in music use. I know most rooms in Singapore will be smaller in scale relative to the huge dedicated theaters here in the US, making the SubMersive even more attractive. Your room is a great example, where you can expect in-room extension to 10Hz in most room locations, while having huge headroom in the upper bass frequencies.

The SubMersive is significantly smoother in response than the TH112, especially at higher frequencies, with much more very low frequency capability, in a smaller package. Your main hurdle will be finding a location for the subwoofer (this applies to any subwoofer you use, not just the SubMersive) which doesn't produce big dips in the response above 40Hz. This is the most common problem I find in small rooms, and of course the range above 40Hz is very important to subjective bass quality.

Adding to the above, the DEQ is limited in not having a low pass filter function. The SubMersive is low passed at around 200Hz to prevent un-intended signals from getting through, but you will want a low pass filter capability to use in a 2ch system. The Behringer DCX2496 has most of the functions of the DEQ, with a smaller front panel interface, but nice PC interface (serial). It will easily handle both low pass and phase adjustment which will be handy in a 2ch system.

Hello there Mike.

That freq graph looks great, stretches till 200Hz.

Unfortunately I need the sub here in Singapore. Shipping is of no problem (probably about usd500 max). Not getting a response from Mark though, I posted in his forum, PMed him and sent him all the emails for quite a while. Hopefully he will respons soon.

I just came back from Singapore:). I must say it is a very very nice place to visit. It was called the Royal Plaza on Scotts. I think I was near Orchard road? The city is great. Very nice people. If you get this sub, I think you will be very happy.

[QUOTE=Mark Seaton;13512861]Hi guys,

The last 2 weeks (and most of the year thus far) has had me a bit stretched. Many things are happening that will greatly improve this situation. You can also blame funlvr1965 for part of it as I work on his Catalysts, which will be the first production level units. ;)QUOTE]


Who MEEE? what did I do? ;)

It's all good Wayne. Can't wait until you get them in your setup.

Hi Mark,

Its good to know that you are still busily doing up new products and the biz is still hot! :) I love your pro approach to gear since you were/are from the pro arena. I don't know of any who are using Baltic birch for sub cabs.
If BB cannot withstand transportation issues, MDF can't neither. In fact I am surprised that the Home Theatre arena only recently started to embrace pro-stuff equipment like drivers, where the high-end enthusiasts strive for this reference level thingy (115dB program or peak?). As you know i don't really follow HT.

I'd probably use the DEQ2496 and EQ first, as that thing provides EQ +/- 15dB so that's 30dB window, and there are so many memory settings that i could do up a 2Hz resolution list. :) Something like a EQ virtual low-pass slope. Since the DSP amp is programmable, i'd probably request you to drop the 200Hz filter down to 120Hz, hope that's ok. With your filter and my EQ there would be more than enough attentuation flexibility added together to cut out the lower mids.

Mike, Singapore is getting expensive isn't it? Inflation is bad here (but no where as bad as Zimbabwe of course :D). Actually I just realised my room size is similar to yours! Just curious, what SPL levels are you getting in-room for the various freqs? (am sure that's pretty high).

Mark, its also great to know that you are listening to music too, and taking care in the midbass (40-80) and even upper bass (80-160) octave perhaps. A lot of HT based subs/drivers don't have that detail and texture from about 60Hz up, as they are designed to perform best and even aiming for infrasonics. Deep and infra are fun, but i believe there is lots of midbass in music too (eg movies), so I guess for a top-flight HT setup its important not to lose sight of that too.

I've seen some setups with single 6.25" ~ 5mm Xmax driver and multiple big big subs tuned low? Heh....
Check out the THD @ 95dB in some music speakers (admittedly levels are much lower so it rarely presents an issue).

http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.html
Check out the Paradigm reference studio 100, that's a biggie with 3 bass drivers per side. I believe -15dB below H1 is about THD 15%? And that's at only 95dB levels. :D

Actually I just realised my room size is similar to yours! Just curious, what SPL levels are you getting in-room for the various freqs? (am sure that's pretty high).
Well,
I really have not measured max frequencies for a few reasons. One, is that it is hard to do in a way that I wont get yelled at:D. Second, if I post what I got, people may choose to think that it is the max of the sub. When I am barely scratching the surface. But, I did do a few tests of War of the Worlds. Depending on what level I listen to, I can get between 90-100db on the lightning scene. And I can hit 107-109 when the truck goes flying off the bridge. But again, that is not meant to show a max SPL number for this sub. That is just the max my room can handle. Now, in my small room, that is a pretty fun level to be at. Check your Private Message.

Guys, the submersive is not operating in isobaric right?

Guys, the submersive is not operating in isobaric right?

Nope, both drivers move out (or in) from the box at the same time. The pair of 15" drivers are in a common sealed box. Acoustically it would be no different if they were on the same face of the box, just as most full range speakers are. By mounting the drivers on opposing faces I am able to keep the size down, and more importantly, the mechanical forces of the opposite facing drivers moving fore and aft cancel eachother out, making for a box that does not rock, walk or shake at all. This is also why there is no need for spikes on the subwoofer, as there is really nothing to transmit to the floor, nor to hold in place.

Nope, both drivers move out (or in) from the box at the same time. The pair of 15" drivers are in a common sealed box. Acoustically it would be no different if they were on the same face of the box, just as most full range speakers are. By mounting the drivers on opposing faces I am able to keep the size down, and more importantly, the mechanical forces of the opposite facing drivers moving fore and aft cancel eachother out, making for a box that does not rock, walk or shake at all. This is also why there is no need for spikes on the subwoofer, as there is really nothing to transmit to the floor, nor to hold in place. Very cool Mark, we use this same design in our air-ride trailer suspensions were dock-walk and dock-drop are issues...opposing the axles cancel any potential movement of the trailer. :)

Cool, so its push-push, pull-pull topology. :)

Glad I hunted the Sub down, instead of F113. There is no doubt that investing in a Sub than the F113 nets you more returns in both firepower and having more agility while paying less for it. (sounds military eh? :D).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoCOXHKCli4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoCOXHKCli4

I saw that video. Pretty cool. But we need one that maybe is a bit lighter so the driver can really be seen. And maybe a few other movies as well. WOTW
Star Wars E1 etc.

I saw that video. Pretty cool. But we need one that maybe is a bit lighter so the driver can really be seen. And maybe a few other movies as well. WOTW
Star Wars E1 etc.

yup, i wish there were a way to turn up the brightness on youtube

a lot of videos are really dark

Hey 2100, check your PM on Mark's forum.

By mounting the drivers on opposing faces I am able to keep the size down, and more importantly, the mechanical forces of the opposite facing drivers moving fore and aft cancel eachother out, making for a box that does not rock, walk or shake at all. This is also why there is no need for spikes on the subwoofer, as there is really nothing to transmit to the floor, nor to hold in place.

Would you say that a setup like this is the best option for limiting noise leakage into other rooms/houses ?

I am asking because I am in the market for a new subwoofer (currently B&W ASW4000) but don't want to upset the neighbours in my appartmentblock too much. I have heard what a Velodyne DD15 can do, situated on the floor of a house attached HT room, to the rest of the house.

ummm.... youre kidding right? you do realize we are talking about the submersive 1 " get me evicted sub" dont believe me? with a second submersive on the way look at what I had to do to an unfinished basement rear wall and common wall in a condominum we live in.

Would you say that a setup like this is the best option for limiting noise leakage into other rooms/houses ?

I am asking because I am in the market for a new subwoofer (currently B&W ASW4000) but don't want to upset the neighbours in my appartmentblock too much. I have heard what a Velodyne DD15 can do, situated on the floor of a house attached HT room, to the rest of the house.

I have to agree with funlvr on this one. You will get leakage into the surrounding areas. It's all in the setup though. And you control the volume so just be aware of that fact when you are watching movies.

Ofcourse I understand that noise is noise, and the louder the more noise leaks into other rooms.

But noise leakage is also created by mechanical vibration of an enclosure (contact noise). I am assuming that it will make a big difference between a normal single driver subwoofer and a mechanical balanced subwoofer like the Submersive. With this design I shouldn't have the equal of an jackhammer pounding on my floor.

Ofcourse I understand that noise is noise, and the louder the more noise leaks into other rooms.

But noise leakage is also created by mechanical vibration of an enclosure (contact noise). I am assuming that it will make a big difference between a normal single driver subwoofer and a mechanical balanced subwoofer like the Submersive. With this design I shouldn't have the equal of an jackhammer pounding on my floor.

The cabinet is very inert. It does not move at all. But you will still know it's on when it is playing:cool:. It is not like a jackhammer on the floor. But lets be realistic here. This sub is capable of tremendous output. Even very low frequencies are reproduced powerfully. People are going to notice. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get one. It just means you need to keep your finger on the volume control.

mark you out there? how bout a call back or an email. I really want to know when my sub will be shipped!!!!



thanks, bob