Right now I just have def tech 7002s set to small with the LFE going to my old pf1500tl, I am planning for and hoping for a significant difference...

My first def tech setup was pro400's and a powerfield 15TL. I think that is fairly close to the 1500tl. I predict that you will be a happy camper with the SubMersive.

If I buy this sub is there anything else I have to get or will the pio elite sc05 be fine to drive it and EQ it?

I own the Pio SC05 and it will not EQ your sub channel at all. All MCACC will do is set the distance for the sub and adjust the level so that it matches your other speakers. You will need to buy some kind of unit in order to EQ the sub, be it an SMS-1 or other option. It's not required for your sub to be EQ'ed...but if you are wanting a relatively flat line and calibrate your system then you want to.

My first def tech setup was pro400's and a powerfield 15TL. I think that is fairly close to the 1500tl. I predict that you will be a happy camper with the SubMersive.

the only difference is the 1500TL had the piano black end caps and black wrap-around sock look but they are the same sub as the 15TL

i used to sell the TL subs and hated them. i had a 18TL in my house for one day and ran back to the store with it the next day

the 15TL & 1500TL both had a 15" driver in a transmission line loaded rear slot port tuned around 25hz and not very musical but it was just a measly $699 brick & mortar sub from 1998 (couple bills more for the 1500TL)

i'm sure firebrick will be blown away by the difference :)

the only difference is the 1500TL had the piano black end caps and black wrap-around sock look but they are the same sub as the 15TL

i used to sell the TL subs and hated them. i had a 18TL in my house for one day and ran back to the store with it the next day

the 15TL & 1500TL both had a 15" driver in a transmission line loaded rear slot port tuned around 25hz and not very musical but it was just a measly $699 brick & mortar sub from 1998 (couple bills more for the 1500TL)

i'm sure firebrick will be blown away by the difference :)
It was my very first sub that I got back in 1998.

Firebrick, the SubMersive is a completely different animal then the Deftech. Don't let the fact that the 1500 has a 15 inch driver fool you. The SubMersive will have a lot more output and go much lower. Plus it will just sound better. That is of course MY own opinion :D. You have to make sure you calibrate it properly. Don't just go by what you had your old sub set too.

This will give you an idea of the size of the A7-900 vs. other subs. That's an SVS PB-10 next to the A7-900.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1798.jpg

^^^ WOW! That is rediculous!!!! :D



Back in my DIY days before my motorcycle accident I had built a quite a few different subwoofers. The biggest was a dual 15" driver, box was 2" thick Baltic Birch plywood, the box stood 6' high 2 8" ports in front and it was over 600 lbs. :D

This will give you an idea of the size of the A7-900 vs. other subs. That's an SVS PB-10 next to the A7-900.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1798.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised if the Terraform XL is nearly the size of the A7-900, but I'm not in the market, so please feel free to provide dimentions.

It was my very first sub that I got back in 1998.

Firebrick, the SubMersive is a completely different animal then the Deftech. Don't let the fact that the 1500 has a 15 inch driver fool you. The SubMersive will have a lot more output and go much lower. Plus it will just sound better. That is of course MY own opinion :D. You have to make sure you calibrate it properly. Don't just go by what you had your old sub set too.

yup, very limited excursion 15" driver vs. 2 modern day 15" beasts and a much better amp

when the TL line came out, i actually tried to call Sandy Gross to complain but i only got his "assistant" lol

I am definately looking forward to it, I always thought the 15tl did a decent job making noise but not very tight. Now it sounds like I am going to need an EQ and some help with that unfortunately. I do have 2 floor to ceiling superchuck bass traps in the room right now and plan on building as many bass traps as possible for the room.

I am definately looking forward to it, I always thought the 15tl did a decent job making noise but not very tight. Now it sounds like I am going to need an EQ and some help with that unfortunately. I do have 2 floor to ceiling superchuck bass traps in the room right now and plan on building as many bass traps as possible for the room.

First thing I would do is simply place it in the best spot you can find in the room. Then I would plot a response of the sub. That way you can really see if you have any real pressing issues. That is the fun part I. Then if need be make any adjustments. Then fun part II can start.
That is where you watch all your movies over again.

Hi Mark,

Any updates regarding the shipping date for my SubMersive? We are at the end of the stated delivery week. I know you said that we might extend the shipping date to the first week of June but I hope that won't be the case. ;)

However, I don't want to rush you. I rather wait a little longer to ensure I receive a well-tested SubMersive (the cost of shipping the SubMersive back to you for warranty work would kill me). :)

Same date as mine, Kain. Any day now, great. I want boom,boom.

My neighbors have like 5 kids who play outside all day. I am going to have fun. I will have noise power in my hands.:D
Ha HA Ha HA
Yes I am talking about noise war here people!!!
I will be lobbing subwoofer grenades over the fenceline!!!
Ha HA HA HA

Well actually I just want those low frequency's for my Blues music. See I am down because I had to have back surgery and bought a wussy home theatre/music system instead of my Harley Davidson. So I drown my sorrows in tequila and blues;)

Well actually I just want those low frequency's for my Blues music. See I am down because I had to have back surgery and bought a wussy home theatre/music system instead of my Harley Davidson. So I drown my sorrows in the blues;)

In that case, you will want a heavy dose of John Mayall, SRV, Jimmy d Lane, Buddy Guy, Guitar Shorty, James and Lucky Peterson, Kenny Wayne Shepard,
Old Fleetwood Mac Albert King etc...
That should get you going:).

Resended

If y'all like heavy bass with your blues, there's a recent 2008 Taj Mahal CD called "Maestro". Heavy bass throughout. In particular there's a song called "Strong Man Holler". Give that a spin if you can.

If y'all like heavy bass with your blues, there's a recent 2008 Taj Mahal CD called "Maestro". Heavy bass throughout. In particular there's a song called "Strong Man Holler". Give that a spin if you can.

Does the CD come packaged with a jug of moonshine?

The moonshine is extra.

The moonshine is extra.

Well forget it then. CD's are a dead media and with this economy they need to offer a better value proposition to the consumer than just the disc of music. What goes better with economic downturns than Blues and Booze? Well not including loose women and guns which are both hard to include in a bundle deal.

I do know of a John Lee Hooker CD that includes one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer.

I do know of a John Lee Hooker CD that includes one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer.

But that can be a lot for someone if they drink alone like Lonesome George.

It's just another one of his b-b-b-b-bad habits.

If y'all like heavy bass with your blues, there's a recent 2008 Taj Mahal CD called "Maestro". Heavy bass throughout. In particular there's a song called "Strong Man Holler". Give that a spin if you can.
Thanks for this heads up Mike, it is always nice to be aware of relevant recorded material that have good acoustic signatures.

The attached image from track 11 - "Strong Man Holler" as in the reference, was captured from my present listening position 7ft away with Spectrum Lab uncalibrated and shows the presence of very strong LFs down to 23Hz at. The blip at the lower half is real and occurs at about 4 mins into the track.

My dual SVS PB-12 Ultra/2s are almost equidistant from my listening position - each about 6ft on either side. As can be seen, I have a suckout region centered around 93Hz, probably due to me having done - at least currently - a poor job of integrating my subs with my SBS-01s, but I'll work on that when I have the time.

In the mean time, my SubMersives have shipped (many thanks to you Mark! :D:D:D:D) My Catalysts ought to have shipped too, but hopefully they too soon will; and all will soon be on their long transit to me in Lagos.

Thank much for the graph. That is one hell of as bass line. It's one of the most powerful I've heard that's not electronica.

Mike,
When everything is done with the music system I will get that album and give it a spin.

Wow, if that is not electronic, it could be a bass tuned down a step to D, or maybe the mix is slowed a step.

Jug of corn or no, I just might have to check this album out!

There may very well be some electronic enhancement of the bass in that song, but the the music is definitely not in the category of electronica music.

anyone compared this unit with a Danley TH50? Given the fact that they're both killer monsters, what would be the pros/cons of one over the other?

Looks like the Danley is two times more expensive as the Seaton

anyone compared this unit with a Danley TH50? Given the fact that they're both killer monsters, what would be the pros/cons of one over the other?

Looks like the Danley is two times more expensive as the Seaton

They are also vastly different designs in size and application. The SubMersive is also powered, where internal power adds a good deal more to the TH-50. For a size reference, the TH-50 is within an inch in each dimension of the size of FOUR stacked SubMersives. There are plenty of other significant differences in the targeted low frequency extension and response shape, as well as upper octave smoothness important in allowing a wider range of crossover frequencies which room acoustics often require.

My next subwoofer offering, the Terraform XL is a more interesting comparison where both are rather larger and have offer a ying/yang choice of output/efficiency vs. VLF extension/response smoothness.

So long to wait, cant watch any good movies... :)

Hi Mark, understood that the subs are different

I'm throwing the comparo out there simply because they both seem to have the "best in class" thing in common

plus sq can always be directly compared imo, realizing that sq in and of itself is a highly subjective and debatable topic

They are also vastly different designs in size and application. The SubMersive is also powered, where internal power adds a good deal more to the TH-50. For a size reference, the TH-50 is within an inch in each dimension of the size of FOUR stacked SubMersives. There are plenty of other significant differences in the targeted low frequency extension and response shape, as well as upper octave smoothness important in allowing a wider range of crossover frequencies which room acoustics often require.

.
And another difference is the max output capability of each cabinet.

Wow, if that is not electronic, it could be a bass tuned down a step to D, or maybe the mix is slowed a step.

Jug of corn or no, I just might have to check this album out!

Yes, looking at the graph it appears to be a drop D tune, which open string would be 36.71Hz.

Bosso

And another difference is the max output capability of each cabinet.

Yes, but price and performance wise two submersives should be doing pretty well compared to a th50.

Before ordering my submersives last november and analyzing what is publically known i came to the following conclusion:

Being almost twice their combined size, but consideribly more efficient (size, tapped horn), the th50 pulls away between about 17Hz - 35/40Hz but gets beat anywhere else.

The th50 is -extremely- powerful from 20Hz upwards, as are the 4x 15" drivers of the 2 submersives a bit higher up the frequency scale.

From its specs it would appear that below the intended range of the th50 (say: 5Hz - 15Hz) it would take several th50's to match a single (!) submersive. On the other hand: at 21Hz it would take 3-4 submersives to match one th50!

Of course a lot of guess work was involved on my part so please take above analysis with a grain of salt. ;-)

Weight per unit, total size, price (incl. amp+dsp!) and fuller range made me go for Seaton's offerings.

I am looking to augment (or replace) my 11 year old Velodyne FSR-18. While it goes plenty low for me, it is pretty easy for it to go into limiting when trying to keep up with the mains (Klipschorns). I am looking at eD and Epik offerings, and of course, the Submersive. The system is almost 100% HT, but performance on Blu Ray music concerts is important.

I suppose I am correct in assuming that the Submersive would have significant more output than the FSR-18, correct? And I assume that extension below 20 Hz would be similar, correct? Would transient response be similar to the Velo? That is one thing that concerns me about ported designs.

By the way, the room is 12x20x8 with LOTS of bass trapping (7 GIK Monsters plus suspended ceiling with R30 above).

Thanks for your opinions.

so 40-80hz, a single submerssive is in the ballpark?

I am looking to augment (or replace) my 11 year old Velodyne FSR-18. While it goes plenty low for me, it is pretty easy for it to go into limiting when trying to keep up with the mains (Klipschorns). I am looking at eD and Epik offerings, and of course, the Submersive. The system is almost 100% HT, but performance on Blu Ray music concerts is important.

I suppose I am correct in assuming that the Submersive would have significant more output than the FSR-18, correct? And I assume that extension below 20 Hz would be similar, correct? Would transient response be similar to the Velo? That is one thing that concerns me about ported designs.

By the way, the room is 12x20x8 with LOTS of bass trapping (7 GIK Monsters plus suspended ceiling with R30 above).

Thanks for your opinions.

I second this question...I have an FSR-15 and on my NIN BR at -20dB from reference it sounds great. However, when I crank it close to reference the bass disappears unless I'm right on top of the sub. If anyone who has a Submersive and NIN: Beside you in time on BR, please play "Burn" at or very close to reference and let me know what it sounds like. :) Nearfield placement is not an option for me. My room has similar dimentions as to what is stated above. I've been lurking in this thread for a while trying to figure out if the Submersive would do the trick. I was leaning toward the PB-13 Ultra or the Conquest but the Conquest is friggin huge and I've read multiple reports of the Ultra "farting" when pushed too hard. I want to be able to play this concert at very high levels with no loss of low frequency. Thanks for your help.

Hello Mark Seaton,
I have tried to email you and leave calls. The last email I sent you had your notes from my Payapl payment I sent you. In it it said "Your SubMersive is expected to ship between May 15th and May 22nd barring unforeseen delays. You will be notified via e-mail if any delays arise. An e-mail notice from FedEx with tracking information will be sent the day of shipment. Please provide a contact phone number (required by FedEx) here or separately via e-mail or when payment is made."
I sent my phone number to you and you have my email address. Since you posted that message "pre-sale" I expect the same"post-sell". I have tried not to post here on this issue, but since you have time to post here for "Pre-Sale Technical Questions", I figure you will find the time to answer here. So what is my new shipping time? Sounds strict, but I went through an ordeal with a company called "Singlepower" on headfi.org. Look it up if you would like. Makes me nervous when I dont get emails or phone calls responded to. Rodney

rodney,

If it helps, Mark is extremely busy. He may not always respond in time but he will get you your sub as soon as possible!

Trust me, the wait is worth it for a quality product.

if anyone is tired of waiting i will take their place :)

Ya I went through the same type of reassurances on headfi.org. The guy should answer his emails. No sympathy here. He is getting paid plenty for that.

Mark can go to ways with this. Well see the responce.

Mark can go to ways with this. Well see the responce.
everyone is backordered SVS, paradigm, Anthem and even Onkyo.

Ah the enablers are coming on. Been through all this.
I just want what he says he does.

There are legal issues of letting this go over 60 days from purchase. Thats why I want a date.

Hello Mark Seaton,
I have tried to email you and leave calls. The last email I sent you had your notes from my Payapl payment I sent you. In it it said "Your SubMersive is expected to ship between May 15th and May 22nd barring unforeseen delays. You will be notified via e-mail if any delays arise. An e-mail notice from FedEx with tracking information will be sent the day of shipment. Please provide a contact phone number (required by FedEx) here or separately via e-mail or when payment is made."
I sent my phone number to you and you have my email address. Since you posted that message "pre-sale" I expect the same"post-sell". I have tried not to post here on this issue, but since you have time to post here for "Pre-Sale Technical Questions", I figure you will find the time to answer here. So what is my new shipping time? Sounds strict, but I went through an ordeal with a company called "Singlepower" on headfi.org. Look it up if you would like. Makes me nervous when I dont get emails or phone calls responded to. Rodney

There are legal issues of letting this go over 60 days from purchase. Thats why I want a date.

Hi Roddey,

I apologize for the lapse in communication. Given your past experience, I can understand your apprehension. You have an e-mail answering your questions and should have another e-mail from FedEx by tomorrow. :o

Hi Roddey,

I apologize for the lapse in communication. Given your past experience, I can understand your apprehension. You have an e-mail answering your questions and should have another e-mail from FedEx by tomorrow. :o
OK thanks Mark. Singlepower ordeal took 6 months of my life up worrying about a huge loss. Rodney

Next time you should try posting on his forum instead of splashing your problems here. Calling owners of Submersives that have dealt with Mark and have had wonderful experiences with his products "enablers" is a bit much. Everyone knows that Mark can be a bit slow responding to his emails; but there is no one that has not received product from him and been floored by the performance. Should he respond more promptly sometimes? Absolutely, but that is the trade off when you are dealing with a (essentially) one man operation making boutique level products.

next time you should try posting on his forum instead of splashing your problems here. Calling owners of submersives that have dealt with mark and have had wonderful experiences with his products "enablers" is a bit much. Everyone knows that mark can be a bit slow responding to his emails; but there is no one that has not received product from him and been floored by the performance. Should he respond more promptly sometimes? Absolutely, but that is the trade off when you are dealing with a (essentially) one man operation making boutique level products.

+1

Wow.

Rodney - just a word of advice. Calling other forum members names/putting down others will insure that you have a VERY short and unhappy membership here.

Private contact would have been the proper methods rather than in a public forum.

Next time you should try posting on his forum instead of splashing your problems here. Calling owners of Submersives that have dealt with Mark and have had wonderful experiences with his products "enablers" is a bit much. Everyone knows that Mark can be a bit slow responding to his emails; but there is no one that has not received product from him and been floored by the performance. Should he respond more promptly sometimes? Absolutely, but that is the trade off when you are dealing with a (essentially) one man operation making boutique level products.

+2

Maybe taking a less combative attitude would get you farther and keep you from getting on many more ignore lists.

Hows the next shipment looking Mark? Ganna be out early or still a couple weeks?

Wow.

Rodney - just a word of advice. Calling other forum members names/putting down others will insure that you have a VERY short and unhappy membership here.

Private contact would have been the proper methods rather than in a public forum.

Well Said. Rodney, To bad you haven't had the opportunity to meet Mark in person because if you did....You wouldn't be concerned at all. He is a one man operation...Production, Tech. Support, R&D, CS, Sales, Outside Contractor....I honestly don't know when the man sleeps!! For an individual like Mark to load up his equipment and demo products, or ship them to someones house for a HT meet....IMO...shows he's repuitible and a stand up guy! A great guy to be exact....and I've only meet him once! You won't be dissappointed when you receive your product. You'll probably regret going public with your concern once your ears hear the SubMersive in action.

I tried private contact several times. If I get banned so be it. This is exactly what happened at headfi.org. When people started complaining about Singlepower issues they were banned, attacked by other members, or post deleted and harrassed by moderators. I found him here, so if I have to get communication here I will. I do not know Mark so this is business. Mark is handling this as he sees fit. My message was to him, not you.

I tried private contact several times. If I get banned so be it. This is exactly what happened at headfi.org. When people started complaining about Singlepower issues they were banned, attacked by other members, or post deleted and harrassed by moderators. I found him here, so if I have to get communication here I will. I do not know Mark so this is business. Mark is handling this as he sees fit. My message was to him, not you.then use the PM. Also out of respect you should have already deleted your posts. this is not a customer service forum.

Also I have no regrets and ignore away. This would of been over and settled without the comments by those who are not involved. Your making it worse.

Nobody is attacking you Roddey, just asking that you use discretion when you've got a discrepency with someone. People here were just trying to offer explanations, and you called them "enablers". I understand your frustrations, and it's human nature to expect the worst after one bad experience. If you've been reading the thread, late replies are very common from Mark, but so is customer satisfaction. Anyways, I'm sure you'll be happy with your submersive when it arrives.

Question for Mark, have you ever looked into doing a horned version of your Submersive or one of your other subwoofer designs? With the efficiency, SPLs and quality you've achieved, I can only imagine what you could get out of a horned design.

Hey guys

I think the problem has been fixed, and lets leave it at that.

Now back to the discussion of this kick but subwoofer:D

some people are more patient than others

some people are more forgiving than others

some subwoofers put more cracks in your drywall than others :D

some subwoofers put more cracks in your drywall than others :D

rebar and fiber reinforced concrete works well.

Where do these ship out off? Chicago? If so can I pick one up instead of shipping?

Where do these ship out off? Chicago? If so can I pick one up instead of shipping?

I would contact Mark directly with that question. Either a PM here or on his forum or shoot him an email indicating that you could do a local pickup from Chicago.

Where do these ship out off? Chicago? If so can I pick one up instead of shipping?

Chicago is where he ships them so I would bet that a local pickup or him delivering it would not be out of the question

Where do these ship out off? Chicago? If so can I pick one up instead of shipping?

Correct on shipping out of Chicago. The bigger issue comes down to tax. For the time being, I'm in Cook County. Where sales tax is more than shipping...

Hey guys

I think the problem has been fixed, and lets leave it at that.

Now back to the discussion of this kick but subwoofer:D

Indeed. Rodney's and a couple others shipped out this past week, and with the stockpile of drivers arriving yesterday, we will have more headed out this week, with even the most recent orders being shipped within the next 3 weeks.

Back to work on those SubMersives, Sparks & Catalysts...

back to work on those submersives, sparks & catalysts...

and...........................

Correct on shipping out of Chicago. The bigger issue comes down to tax. For the time being, I'm in Cook County. Where sales tax is more than shipping...

what if he showed up as a shipping company that only charged $1 for shipping ?

:D

and...........................

Don't say you're into a Terraform or a Terraform XL?!?! :eek:

What would the opnions be with useing a SubMersive with Def Techs BP7000 towers? I'm looking for good mid bass for kick drums and something to go deeper then the subs in the BP7000s. Right now I have a Klipsch Sub-12, but I don't use the subwoofer to much for I find it rather boomy with it's large port.

Thanks!

man I can hardly stand the wait...btw truwarrior22 im going to use it with my 7002's Ill let you know what i think.

this is cool lots of people on avs ordering submersives and duals going to get some decent new reviews here directly

What would the opnions be with useing a SubMersive with Def Techs BP7000 towers? I'm looking for good mid bass for kick drums and something to go deeper then the subs in the BP7000s. Right now I have a Klipsch Sub-12, but I don't use the subwoofer to much for I find it rather boomy with it's large port.

Thanks!

Im using my submersive with 7001's and it blends perfectly. Was using the SC Reference before and the submersive trumps it by and large. It hits so tight and precise its amazing. Like others, Ive been using the gun fight scene in "Open Range" as my current demo for this sub. Man, the best part of the sub is the silence. Like, when the gun fires and the sub hits, it doesn't give you anything but the shot. Just dead silence after it.

Those who know what Im talking about know what Im talking about. Hard to explain until youve experienced it.

this is cool lots of people on avs ordering submersives and duals going to get some decent new reviews here directly

Yeah, baby!!! I'm in the que, too. :D

Should have a SubMersive landing around the end of the month.

I'd expect some others who got their orders in before me to be reporting very soon. Help me pass the days with reviews and pics guys! ;)

The more the better. There is plenty of room on this train.

Like others, Ive been using the gun fight scene in "Open Range" as my current demo for this sub. Man, the best part of the sub is the silence. Like, when the gun fires and the sub hits, it doesn't give you anything but the shot. Just dead silence after it.

Those who know what Im talking about know what Im talking about. Hard to explain until youve experienced it.

Like the Dragon, it stops on a dime. Fast and tight with no over hang. The recovery is extremely fast.

Well I recieved the sub and hooked it up to the SMS-1. Took me most of the day to set and figure the sms-1 out. But after that I turned it on and watched a movie. What an awesome sub. I for the first time got to know what it is to "feel" sound waves in the body and chest.
The build quality is excellent. I would suggest this sub to anyone who ask me. Rodney

Next time you should try posting on his forum instead of splashing your problems here. Calling owners of Submersives that have dealt with Mark and have had wonderful experiences with his products "enablers" is a bit much. Everyone knows that Mark can be a bit slow responding to his emails; but there is no one that has not received product from him and been floored by the performance. Should he respond more promptly sometimes? Absolutely, but that is the trade off when you are dealing with a (essentially) one man operation making boutique level products.
But I still say some people should mind there own business and let the parties involved solve the issues. It went well between I and Mark Seaton after the post. Bet you would not of got involved if it was face to face.

Wow.

Rodney - just a word of advice. Calling other forum members names/putting down others will insure that you have a VERY short and unhappy membership here.

Private contact would have been the proper methods rather than in a public forum.
Like this. Like I care what you think. Last Post

Well I recieved the sub and hooked it up to the SMS-1. Took me most of the day to set and figure the sms-1 out. But after that I turned it on and watched a movie. What an awesome sub. I for the first time got to know what it is to "feel" sound waves in the body and chest.
The build quality is excellent. I would suggest this sub to anyone who ask me. Rodney

Great news Rodney!

So, any more information would be helpful to a guy on the waiting list--you know, I need to pass the time by vicariously living through other's experiences... :D

Let's get some details, like what movie, what scene did you play back several times?

How about some background, like what subwoofers have you experienced before and any information on your room size, layout, sub placement, etc.

Oh yeah, the ultimate time-passing assistance would also be greatly appreciated: PICS, please. ;)

I'm really happy for you and appreciate your playing along by helping out a fellow a/v addict!

Roddey,

I am glad you are happy with your new sub. But after receiving it, you bring up an old post and write something inflamatory that is sure to get some heated responses. That exchange was done and over with, why bring it up? Anyway, enjoy! You have one of the best subs there is.

Like this. Like I care what you think. Last Post

Hopefully, that was your last post here, ever. :rolleyes:

But I still say some people should mind there own business and let the parties involved solve the issues. It went well between I and Mark Seaton after the post. Bet you would not of got involved if it was face to face.
Once you post on any forum you are fair game!Period! Glad you love the Sub:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16651325#post16651325

What's that oddly-coated Submersive-like box pictured with those Sparks???

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16651325#post16651325

What's that oddly-coated Submersive-like box pictured with those Sparks???

That would be a SubMersive with one of the new finisishes Mark has been working on.
"I brought the first sample of a wood veneer SubMersive"
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3520612
BTW, I think it looks very nice. Now there really is no excuse:p.

That would be a SubMersive with one of the new finisishes Mark has been working on.
"I brought the first sample of a wood veneer SubMersive"
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3520612
BTW, I think it looks very nice. Now there really is no excuse:p.

The new sample finishes that Mark brought to the HEMI meet were very appealing!

The SubMersive definitely thumps! However....Itai's dual Terraforms....Paired up with LCR Catalysts...WOW!!!!!!! AMAZING!!!!! If anyone is within a 4-6 hour drive to hear the Seaton Sound Catalysts at HT meet....GO! Make the time and go!! Meet Mark in person and listen to his products.....Word of mouth doesn't do his products justice.

I want my Sparks!

I want my TerraForm XLs.

...even though I'm nowhere close to being ready yet. :(

I want my Sparks!

I want my TerraForm XLs.

...even though I'm nowhere close to being ready yet. :(

Your Sparks will be ready this week :), with SubMersives heading out Thursday & Friday to those who were given ship windows of this week. We had a few unexpected delays with some international SubMersive shipments which will be sorted out this week. All in all things are starting to catch up and flow more smoothly and more predictably. :)

I want my Sparks!

I want my TerraForm XLs.

...even though I'm nowhere close to being ready yet. :(

Envious of you!!

Be lucky I didn't take Itai up on his offer..... Itai made an offer to me and my buddy... Wanted us to dispose of Mark....so Mark's Catalysts' and what not could remain at his house. It was all in good fun.... I said no way....nobody would get those wonderful Seaton Sound products if we did that...including me!!

Envious of you!!

Be lucky I didn't take Itai up on his offer..... Itai made an offer to me and my buddy... Wanted us to dispose of Mark....so Mark's Catalysts' and what not could remain at his house. It was all in good fun.... I said no way....nobody would get those wonderful Seaton Sound products if we did that...including me!!

Sacrafice for the greater good. You are truly and extraordinary individual:p.

The SubMersive definitely thumps! However....Itai's dual Terraforms....Paired up with LCR Catalysts...WOW!!!!!!! AMAZING!!!!! If anyone is within a 4-6 hour drive to hear the Seaton Sound Catalysts at HT meet....GO! Make the time and go!! Meet Mark in person and listen to his products.....Word of mouth doesn't do his products justice.

I am local in the Chicago South suburbs.....
Is anybody have the Submersive sub I could check out or the newer bigger subs....
right now I am using a single Epik Dragon but I am always looking for something new:)

I want my Sparks!

I want my TerraForm XLs.

...even though I'm nowhere close to being ready yet. :(

I want your TerraForm XLS too!

The SubMersive definitely thumps! However....Itai's dual Terraforms....Paired up with LCR Catalysts...WOW!!!!!!! AMAZING!!!!! If anyone is within a 4-6 hour drive to hear the Seaton Sound Catalysts at HT meet....GO! Make the time and go!! Meet Mark in person and listen to his products.....Word of mouth doesn't do his products justice.

I am local in the Chicago South suburbs.....
Is anybody have the Submersive sub I could check out or the newer bigger subs....
right now I am using a single Epik Dragon but I am always looking for something new:)

Send Mark an email or PM and ask him. He's located on the north side of Chicago.

Envious of you!!

Be lucky I didn't take Itai up on his offer..... Itai made an offer to me and my buddy... Wanted us to dispose of Mark....so Mark's Catalysts' and what not could remain at his house. It was all in good fun.... I said no way....nobody would get those wonderful Seaton Sound products if we did that...including me!!

I don't think I wanted him "disposed of" just keep him from coming back to pick up the Catalysts (until I need to recalibrate) :D.

Even though I love my Terraforms beyond words, the Submersive always impresses me. The new finishes are great for those that need wife approval to get this into the home.

The Sparks with Submersive is a wicked combo that most speaker companies just can't touch regardless of price.

If anyone was unable to make it last weekend, you can contact me personally to hear the Terraform + Catalyst combo in a Seaton calibrated theater. Simply amazing.

I don't think I wanted him "disposed of" just keep him from coming back to pick up the Catalysts (until I need to recalibrate) :D.

Even though I love my Terraforms beyond words, the Submersive always impresses me. The new finishes are great for those that need wife approval to get this into the home.

The Sparks with Submersive is a wicked combo that most speaker companies just can't touch regardless of price.

If anyone was unable to make it last weekend, you can contact me personally to hear the Terraform + Catalyst combo in a Seaton calibrated theater. Simply amazing.

+1 The Sparks/Submersive combo is untouchable at Mark's prices. I have a feeling those Catalysts are going to remain in your theater....and some Rockets are going in the equipment storage room or a "for sale" ad is being constructed as I write this. :D

If anyone was unable to make it last weekend, you can contact me personally to hear the Terraform + Catalyst combo in a Seaton calibrated theater. Simply amazing.

There is submersive about 20min away also:eek:

There is submersive about 20min away also:eek:

Yeah but I heard that one is missing the grills ;)

Yeah but I heard that one is missing the grills ;)

Yea, it is mater of fact.....:p

Yeah but I heard that one is missing the grills ;)

I have to maintain some leverage to keep Kevin coming back to help lift heavy speakers for me. :p

I have to maintain some leverage to keep Kevin coming back to help lift heavy speakers for me. :p

Hey Mark, Have you seen the size of me and my buddy? ;) I'll be happy to assist and give Kevin a much deserved break.

They are also vastly different designs in size and application. The SubMersive is also powered, where internal power adds a good deal more to the TH-50. For a size reference, the TH-50 is within an inch in each dimension of the size of FOUR stacked SubMersives. There are plenty of other significant differences in the targeted low frequency extension and response shape, as well as upper octave smoothness important in allowing a wider range of crossover frequencies which room acoustics often require.

My next subwoofer offering, the Terraform XL is a more interesting comparison where both are rather larger and have offer a ying/yang choice of output/efficiency vs. VLF extension/response smoothness.

Mark could you elaborate on the differences between the TH-50 and the Submersive. Doesn't seem to be much of a difference in output, I guess the TH-50 might be slightly louder (5 db?) from 25-70 Hz but the Submersive would dig deeper and have more output above 70 Hz?

Would that be the gist of it?

Mark could you elaborate on the differences between the TH-50 and the Submersive. Doesn't seem to be much of a difference in output, I guess the TH-50 might be slightly louder (5 db?) from 25-70 Hz but the Submersive would dig deeper and have more output above 70 Hz?

Would that be the gist of it?

Hi DS',

You might have misinterpreted my post. As should be expected with the large size, if powered sufficiently, the TH-50 can produce much more level. Two SubMersives (still 1/2 the bulk) start to better compare with a TH-50 if powered with a full 1kW into 8 Ohms, where it will have will have deeper in-room response, much smoother above 50Hz with less output in the ~20-35Hz range. At 4 units the comparison turns toward the SubMersive and while the TH-50 is the size of 4 SubMersives, it is less expensive, even with good amplification included.

If you don't have reservations about very large subwoofers, you might want to sit tight and wait for further information on my Terraform XL design. :cool:

How large is your room? What are your main speakers?

Hi DS',

You might have misinterpreted my post. As should be expected with the large size, if powered sufficiently, the TH-50 can produce much more level. Two SubMersives (still 1/2 the bulk) start to better compare with a TH-50 if powered with a full 1kW into 8 Ohms, where it will have will have deeper in-room response, much smoother above 50Hz with less output in the ~20-35Hz range. At 4 units the comparison turns toward the SubMersive and while the TH-50 is the size of 4 SubMersives, it is less expensive, even with good amplification included.
My comparison earlier here in this topic wasn't too far of the mark then.. ;)

i like the design of the opposing drivers in a sealed box like the submersive has

besides the Krell master reference and the Mirage BPS-400 (circa 1997) and a few other older Mirage subs, are there any other subwoofers that have used this type of design ?

Even though I love my Terraforms beyond words, the Submersive always impresses me. The new finishes are great for those that need wife approval to get this into the home.

The Sparks with Submersive is a wicked combo that most speaker companies just can't touch regardless of price.


Very, very cool! I'm awaiting my ship date next week and so insights like this help me pass the time.

Thanks for the SubMersive "fix" ... :D

If you don't have reservations about very large subwoofers, you might want to sit tight and wait for further information on my Terraform XL design. :cool:


My Terraform XL radar alerted me to this mention. :D

While this thread is about subs, is anyone using Seaton speakers (Catalyst Powered Loudspeaker or Spark Powered Loudspeaker) in a two channel system along with one or more of his subs.

If I were only into HT, I would immediately order his non-sub speakers to replace what I currently use (have two Submersives on order). But two channel is a different animal where placement to create soundstage depth, etc are critical.

Any input would be appreciated and if so, what else have you owned that you would compare to the Seaton speakers.

Hi DS',

You might have misinterpreted my post. As should be expected with the large size, if powered sufficiently, the TH-50 can produce much more level. Two SubMersives (still 1/2 the bulk) start to better compare with a TH-50 if powered with a full 1kW into 8 Ohms, where it will have will have deeper in-room response, much smoother above 50Hz with less output in the ~20-35Hz range. At 4 units the comparison turns toward the SubMersive and while the TH-50 is the size of 4 SubMersives, it is less expensive, even with good amplification included.

If you don't have reservations about very large subwoofers, you might want to sit tight and wait for further information on my Terraform XL design. :cool:

How large is your room? What are your main speakers?

I am definitely looking forward to your Terra XLs and what is posted about them.

I will send you a PM in a bit about my room etc rather than hijack the thread.

Thanks again for your reply.

While this thread is about subs, is anyone using Seaton speakers (Catalyst Powered Loudspeaker or Spark Powered Loudspeaker) in a two channel system along with one or more of his subs.

If I were only into HT, I would immediately order his non-sub speakers to replace what I currently use (have two Submersives on order). But two channel is a different animal where placement to create soundstage depth, etc are critical.

Any input would be appreciated and if so, what else have you owned that you would compare to the Seaton speakers.

I am currently using dual Terraforms and the Catalysts in my setup. We had a listening session that included some good quality CDs using just stereo, the Divertimenti BD in DTS-MA 5.1, and other SACD & DVD-A. I am very impressed with the sound from the setup regardless of volume. No matter how loud the system got, it never got harsh and we never heard any distortion. Also, trying out different seats and even standing against a wall produced a very coherent and consistent sound.

I would not hesitate to consider these speakers for two channel listening.

I am currently using dual Terraforms and the Catalysts in my setup. We had a listening session that included some good quality CDs using just stereo, the Divertimenti BD in DTS-MA 5.1, and other SACD & DVD-A. I am very impressed with the sound from the setup regardless of volume. No matter how loud the system got, it never got harsh and we never heard any distortion. Also, trying out different seats and even standing against a wall produced a very coherent and consistent sound.

I would not hesitate to consider these speakers for two channel listening.

+1. Agree with Cubesys. What other speakers have I owned that compare to Seaton Sound speakers?.........Nothing I have owned comes close to Mark's creations. I currently have Klipsch Reference 7s and dual Klipsch RSW 15s...these don't even come close to Mark's speakers....I have Klipsch Heritage speakers and have had Def Tech speakers and subs.....Seaton speakers and subs are in a totally different league than I'm accustom to.

I am currently saving my pennies for a Submersive and plan to get an EQ with it as well. I know Mark recommends the QSC DSP-30, but I have never used an EQ or the REW software before. Being a novice in this area, would I be better off going with something like the SMS-1 with automated setup, or is the DSP-30's learning curve such that I could figure things out fairly quickly and not screw everything up too bad? Also, if I went the DSP-30 route, I am assuming that I would also have to buy a microphone. ?? Is there one in particular that is recommended by Mark for sub setup? Thanks in advance.

+1. Agree with Cubesys. What other speakers have I owned that compare to Seaton Sound speakers?.........Nothing I have owned comes close to Mark's creations. I currently have Klipsch Reference 7s and dual Klipsch RSW 15s...these don't even come close to Mark's speakers....I have Klipsch Heritage speakers and have had Def Tech speakers and subs.....Seaton speakers and subs are in a totally different league than I'm accustom to.

Wow... this really isn't what I want to be hearing =D I'm trying to finish up my rf-83 HT in the next year or so except with a submersive instead of the klipsch subwoofer.

I own 83s and a pair of Heresy I's and II's, and you're saying the catalysts are in a completely different league? I think I need to stop reading these threads, or I may find myself a bachelor again =D

I am currently saving my pennies for a Submersive and plan to get an EQ with it as well. I know Mark recommends the QSC DSP-30, but I have never used an EQ or the REW software before. Being a novice in this area, would I be better off going with something like the SMS-1 with automated setup, or is the DSP-30's learning curve such that I could figure things out fairly quickly and not screw everything up too bad? Also, if I went the DSP-30 route, I am assuming that I would also have to buy a microphone. ?? Is there one in particular that is recommended by Mark for sub setup? Thanks in advance.

+1 - this would be great info for many here...

I lke the SMS-1 very much, but for pure automatic use the SMS-1 is not the greatest. In auto use, it doesn't operate like a true parametric. For that you need to use it manually. The Anti-mode 8033 might be better for automatic eq.

For manual eq, the SMS-1 is probably the most user-friendly since it comes with a calbrated mic and operates on the TV screen requiring no other computer.

+1 - this would be great info for many here...

I think you can download the software for the DSP-30 and I know you can for the DCX2496, so you can play with the interface and get an idea for what they do and how they work. If you can figure that out, no problem, if you can't then you have some learning to do. How easy it will be for you to learn is going to vary greatly from person to person.

Also, IMHO the hardest part is learning to get a good measurement. Heck, if you can measure a sweep with REW and post it on Seatons forum, a few of us could look at it and suggest filters to enter etc, you take another sweep and we suggest more tweaks until you are golden.

You can measure with a laptop with an external sound card (few built in cards are any good) and a mic. a RS meter can work for the mike, a $50 behringer is a step up and like anything you can spend more and more and get better and better mics. Look into the REW pages for advice on that.

mfine, what section are the REW pages located?

On marks forum he has a basic dsp-30 file posted.

He likes the dsp-30 but a bit cheaper and the same thing only not a rack mount is the DSP-4. I use the 4 since I am all about function not the look:eek:

like m-fine said, the hard part is getting the measurements, once you get those I am sure over on seatons forum or over here there are a few that can help out with what to do as far as filters and things go. Heck mark might even help out once he digs himself out from under all the orders:p

did not see a shipping notice tonight :( hopefully tomorrow!

I think you can download the software for the DSP-30 and I know you can for the DCX2496, so you can play with the interface and get an idea for what they do and how they work. If you can figure that out, no problem, if you can't then you have some learning to do. How easy it will be for you to learn is going to vary greatly from person to person.

Also, IMHO the hardest part is learning to get a good measurement. Heck, if you can measure a sweep with REW and post it on Seatons forum, a few of us could look at it and suggest filters to enter etc, you take another sweep and we suggest more tweaks until you are golden.

You can measure with a laptop with an external sound card (few built in cards are any good) and a mic. a RS meter can work for the mike, a $50 behringer is a step up and like anything you can spend more and more and get better and better mics. Look into the REW pages for advice on that.

On marks forum he has a basic dsp-30 file posted.

He likes the dsp-30 but a bit cheaper and the same thing only not a rack mount is the DSP-4. I use the 4 since I am all about function not the look:eek:

like m-fine said, the hard part is getting the measurements, once you get those I am sure over on seatons forum or over here there are a few that can help out with what to do as far as filters and things go. Heck mark might even help out once he digs himself out from under all the orders:p

Thanks for the info guys--that's very helpful. :)

Great insight on the DSP-4 vs. the DSP-30! The equipment is out-of-sight, so that's a great option to save some $$... That always goes over well with my wife! :D

I am currently using dual Terraforms and the Catalysts in my setup.

Apparently you don't like bass!:D:D:D

WOW.

mfine, what section are the REW pages located?

Home Theater Shack forum. They use the add supported forum as an income source, and give away REW for free.

Wow... this really isn't what I want to be hearing =D I'm trying to finish up my rf-83 HT in the next year or so except with a submersive instead of the klipsch subwoofer.

I own 83s and a pair of Heresy I's and II's, and you're saying the catalysts are in a completely different league? I think I need to stop reading these threads, or I may find myself a bachelor again =D

Klipsch are great speakers! But.....IMHO....they can't come close to reproducing the sound from Seaton Catalysts or Sparks. I plan to upgrade my subs to Seaton Subs....I've heard the SubMersive and Terraform they destroy the RSW 15 down low. I'm waiting to see and hear what the Seaton Terraform XL does. Decisions, Decisions....

I don't know.....Being a bachelor with Seaton Sound speakers and subs vs. Married....I'll take the Seaton Sound HT any day!! IMO....Marriage is overrated. :D

I wanted to add a +1 to the Anti-Mode 8033 for Submersive owners. I have personally used it and am quite happy with the noticeable results (vs. no eq) in my room. Not to speak for others, but there is another Submersive owner in my area who was using Feedback Destroyer (don't recall if it was the Behringer DSP1124P or the FBQ2496) for eq. He borrowed my Anti-Mode and was very impressed with the results vs. his own tweaking attempts. If you are a not an audio engineer (or so inclined) then save yourself some time (and depending on your alternatives, some $$$) and go for something like the Anti-Mode.

Oh, and if you do buy the Anti-Mode... TURN DOWN THE VOLUME when you initiate it's sweeps. I have mine down way low, about 3-4 ticks from the bottom (sorry upside down, backwards and in a dark corner so I can't see what it is specifically set at) and even at that level it is shaking the ceiling tiles and making me freak out that I am going to damage the Submersive. It made me jump the first time I started it.

Klipsch are great speakers! But.....IMHO....they can't come close to reproducing the sound from Seaton Catalysts or Sparks. I plan to upgrade my subs to Seaton Subs....I've heard the SubMersive and Terraform they destroy the RSW 15 down low. I'm waiting to see and hear what the Seaton Terraform XL does. Decisions, Decisions....

I don't know.....Being a bachelor with Seaton Sound speakers and subs vs. Married....I'll take the Seaton Sound HT any day!! IMO....Marriage is overrated. :D

Ugh... Your logic processing is getting to me, and that's a bad thing... must resist ... desire ... to purchase Sparks... :D :cool: ;)

Ugh... Your logic processing is getting to me, and that's a bad thing... must resist ... desire ... to purchase Sparks... :D :cool: ;)

The is no point in trying to resist. Really. You will just end up giving yourself a migraine.

Hey Mark,

I have a question. If one has both the space and funds for multiple Terraform XL's or Submersives and is using your Catalysts for LCR with each ones appropriate crossover engaged, is the there any advantage with the Submersives or are the Terraform XL's going to be a different beast altogether?

Hey Mark,

I have a question. If one has both the space and funds for multiple Terraform XL's or Submersives and is using your Catalysts for LCR with each ones appropriate crossover engaged, is the there any advantage with the Submersives or are the Terraform XL's going to be a different beast altogether?

I'm interested in Mark's response here too. What size room are you talking about?

No specific room size for me, as I am not yet in a house to support this kind of system. I am just asking in general with a large enough room to support a system of this magnitude. My assumption would be if one is using his Catalysts and crossing them over at 50-60Hz as recommended by Mark, AND space NOT being a factor(those Terraform XL's look huge!) that multiple Terraform XL's would beat up on multiple submersives in an appropriate room.

I wanted to add a +1 to the Anti-Mode 8033 for Submersive owners. I have personally used it and am quite happy with the noticeable results (vs. no eq) in my room. Not to speak for others, but there is another Submersive owner in my area who was using Feedback Destroyer (don't recall if it was the Behringer DSP1124P or the FBQ2496) for eq. He borrowed my Anti-Mode and was very impressed with the results vs. his own tweaking attempts. If you are a not an audio engineer (or so inclined) then save yourself some time (and depending on your alternatives, some $$$) and go for something like the Anti-Mode.

Oh, and if you do buy the Anti-Mode... TURN DOWN THE VOLUME when you initiate it's sweeps. I have mine down way low, about 3-4 ticks from the bottom (sorry upside down, backwards and in a dark corner so I can't see what it is specifically set at) and even at that level it is shaking the ceiling tiles and making me freak out that I am going to damage the Submersive. It made me jump the first time I started it.

Does anyone just use Audyssey MultEQ XT?

Thanks.

Mark

I wanted to add a +1 to the Anti-Mode 8033 for Submersive owners. I have personally used it and am quite happy with the noticeable results (vs. no eq) in my room. Not to speak for others, but there is another Submersive owner in my area who was using Feedback Destroyer (don't recall if it was the Behringer DSP1124P or the FBQ2496) for eq. He borrowed my Anti-Mode and was very impressed with the results vs. his own tweaking attempts. If you are a not an audio engineer (or so inclined) then save yourself some time (and depending on your alternatives, some $$$) and go for something like the Anti-Mode.

Oh, and if you do buy the Anti-Mode... TURN DOWN THE VOLUME when you initiate it's sweeps. I have mine down way low, about 3-4 ticks from the bottom (sorry upside down, backwards and in a dark corner so I can't see what it is specifically set at) and even at that level it is shaking the ceiling tiles and making me freak out that I am going to damage the Submersive. It made me jump the first time I started it.

I run dual HSU MBM's and dual Ed A7S-450's with the Anti Mode and it is worth the cost.

Bill

Does anyone just use Audyssey MultEQ XT?

Thanks.

Mark

I don't, but I know people who do and it can give good results, but it can also do very stupid things, like try to put in large boost in the lowest frequencies thereby wiping out all of your head room. I hear it is a bug that not all versions have, so I would check out the audessey threads to verify if your version on your receiver will have this bug or not.

I wanted to add a +1 to the Anti-Mode 8033 for Submersive owners. I have personally used it and am quite happy with the noticeable results (vs. no eq) in my room. Not to speak for others, but there is another Submersive owner in my area who was using Feedback Destroyer (don't recall if it was the Behringer DSP1124P or the FBQ2496) for eq. He borrowed my Anti-Mode and was very impressed with the results vs. his own tweaking attempts. If you are a not an audio engineer (or so inclined) then save yourself some time (and depending on your alternatives, some $$$) and go for something like the Anti-Mode.

Oh, and if you do buy the Anti-Mode... TURN DOWN THE VOLUME when you initiate it's sweeps. I have mine down way low, about 3-4 ticks from the bottom (sorry upside down, backwards and in a dark corner so I can't see what it is specifically set at) and even at that level it is shaking the ceiling tiles and making me freak out that I am going to damage the Submersive. It made me jump the first time I started it.

Fantastic information--thanks!

Also, do you have a review of your SubMersive that you have posted earlier in this thread or elsewhere? If so, please direct me to it.

If you haven't posted a review (doesn't need to be full-blown), may I ask you to do so?!

I'd love to hear another SubMersive owner's experience while I wait for my shipping notice! Thanks again...

Oh, and if you do buy the Anti-Mode... TURN DOWN THE VOLUME when you initiate it's sweeps. I have mine down way low, about 3-4 ticks from the bottom (sorry upside down, backwards and in a dark corner so I can't see what it is specifically set at) and even at that level it is shaking the ceiling tiles and making me freak out that I am going to damage the Submersive. It made me jump the first time I started it.

I honestly dont think you can, It just doesnt do anything bad, and I have actually had mine hit the limiter and shut down for a 1-2 seconds, but that's all it ever has done, gone silent for a second and then back on, never makes any crazy noises that I have heard a lot of other subs make when pushed really hard(some not so hard):eek:

...(Audyssey) can also do very stupid things, like try to put in large boost in the lowest frequencies thereby wiping out all of your head room....

So true for me--my SVS Ultra had no headroom after I ran (and re-ran) Audyssey. It sounded great up until a scene like "skidoosh" on KFP or certain parts of Transformers, etc. I didn't want to have to employ the measures that Counsil went to in order to have his dual Ultra's not freak out.

I honestly dont think you can, It just doesnt do anything bad, and I have actually had mine hit the limiter and shut down for a 1-2 seconds, but that's all it ever has done, gone silent for a second and then back on, never makes any crazy noises that I have heard a lot of other subs make when pushed really hard(some not so hard):eek:

I like the sound of that! After hearing some pretty "crazy noises" out of my Ultra, I'm up for a clean, powerful experience free from those distracting and distressing "noises." :)

Oh man oh man oh man, Im like a kid waiting for Christmas morning, checking my email all the time to see if I have a shipping notice yet.

I honestly dont think you can, It just doesnt do anything bad, and I have actually had mine hit the limiter and shut down for a 1-2 seconds, but that's all it ever has done, gone silent for a second and then back on, never makes any crazy noises that I have heard a lot of other subs make when pushed really hard(some not so hard):eek:And yours only does that because you have the old software loaded in it. With the new software you can't even do that. (or so I've been told)

And yours only does that because you have the old software loaded in it. With the new software you can't even do that. (or so I've been told)

Yes, that is what I have been told, since I was one of the 2 very first beta units. Also, I have only ever done that twice and on the same demo material both times, NEVER during normal use.

Yes, that is what I have been told, since I was one of the 2 very first beta units. Also, I have only ever done that twice and on the same demo material both times, NEVER during normal use.

Wimp. :p

Stereodude is correct, on any SubMersive with a serial number starting with an 8 or 9 it should not be possible to reach the point of shut down on any program material.

Wimp. :p

Stereodude is correct, on any SubMersive with a serial number starting with an 8 or 9 it should not be possible to reach the point of shut down on any program material.

Wimp, not me, just my mains:rolleyes:

shouldnt you be working on something and not posting on the forum:mad::rolleyes:

Wimp, not me, just my mains:rolleyes:

shouldnt you be working on something and not posting on the forum:mad::rolleyes:

Mark - Sometimes Kevin is sheer genius. And forget all this 300 pound subwoofer stuff for rich guys. The proletariat on TCA needs an SS-10 project finished. They are ready to come to Chicago to "help" you ... :D

Mark - Sometimes Kevin is sheer genius. And forget all this 300 pound subwoofer stuff for rich guys. The proletariat on TCA needs an SS-10 project finished. They are ready to come to Chicago to "help" you ... :D

I felt dumb but I just had to look up "proletariat" and now I feel smart. Thx craigsub. You don't see that word every day.:rolleyes:

I felt dumb but I just had to look up "proletariat" and now I feel smart. Thx craigsub. You don't see that word every day.:rolleyes:

You are welcome. When one only has one product in stock, and that product is a 25 watt amp, one needs to do SOMETHING of value.

Maybe that can be the Tweak City Audio "obnoxious word of the day".

:D

Mark - Sometimes Kevin is sheer genius. And forget all this 300 pound subwoofer stuff for rich guys. The proletariat on TCA needs an SS-10 project finished. They are ready to come to Chicago to "help" you ... :DKevin does go to Chicago to "help". Does that mean he gets priority? ;)

Kevin does go to Chicago to "help". Does that mean he gets priority? ;)

If Kevin can get Mark to get SS-10 done, I will take him to a terrific establishment in Niagara Falls that just happens to be filled with lovely future college students. They are only dancing to help out with tuition, and they are some of Kev's favorite people. :D

I honestly dont think you can,

Don't challenge me! I am sure I could figure out how to break one if given enough time (and someone elses SubMersive).

It is pretty darn bullet proof though. I have used it to peg a RS meter and other abusive tricks with no ill effects to the sub. The room and the listeners don't always fare so well. Yes, you CAN make yourself feel sick with VLF sine waves, and you can rattle a door handle to pieces and even knock a thermostat off the wall.

If Kevin can get Mark to get SS-10 done, I will take him to a terrific establishment in Niagara Falls that just happens to be filled with lovely future college students. They are only dancing to help out with tuition, and they are some of Kev's favorite people. :DJust a guess, but I think Kevin's got Mark working on a different project. ;)

Wimp. :p

Stereodude is correct, on any SubMersive with a serial number starting with an 8 or 9 it should not be possible to reach the point of shut down on any program material.

I probably have an early serial number as well. But in my room there is no way that I would be close to shutting this thing down. Well, Probaby not:p.

Just a guess, but I think Kevin's got Mark working on a different project. ;)

This is true, which us why I am playing to Kevin's favorite past time. He is, afterall, only a guy. :D

There are many things getting worked on including the speakers and SubMersives getting build & boxed even this hot Saturday afternoon. This week we should cut the order backlog in 1/3rd to possibly half. :)

There are many things getting worked on including the speakers and SubMersives getting build & boxed even this hot Saturday afternoon. This week we should cut the order backlog in 1/3rd to possibly half. :)

And that order backlog will be cut quicker with help:)

and yes craig I will see what I can do for you, but only after mine is done, only needs about 30min of his time, but its been an on going request for 3 weeks now, I would take up a lot less of his time in phone calls if he would just finish things up:D

Does anyone just use Audyssey MultEQ XT?

Thanks.

Mark

I don't, but I know people who do and it can give good results, but it can also do very stupid things, like try to put in large boost in the lowest frequencies thereby wiping out all of your head room. I hear it is a bug that not all versions have, so I would check out the audessey threads to verify if your version on your receiver will have this bug or not.

Thanks for the input. I just wanted to clarify I was asking specifically is anyone is using Audyssey with a Submersive.

Regarding Audyssey, as long as you employ all the little tricks in the Audyssey Setup Guide (linked in my signature), it works great. Unfortunately, the product manuals don't tell the end users much about implementing Audyssey, and it is not exactly plug-and-play calibration.

Mark

Thanks for the input. I just wanted to clarify I was asking specifically is anyone is using Audyssey with a Submersive.

Regarding Audyssey, as long as you employ all the little tricks in the Audyssey Setup Guide (linked in my signature), it works great. Unfortunately, the product manuals don't tell the end users much about implementing Audyssey, and it is not exactly plug-and-play calibration.

Mark

Audyssey's operation is not sub specific other than the buggy implementations may do better with a sub like the SubMersive than naturally extends well. Other than that, the SubMersive will act like any other sub with an auto EQ.

Oh man oh man oh man, Im like a kid waiting for Christmas morning, checking my email all the time to see if I have a shipping notice yet.

Hey Firebrick & other SubMersive owners-in-waiting,

It's all quiet out there! What's the news?

Let's hear about your new arrivals, eh?! Pics, reviews, impressions, anything would be great. :)

Hey Firebrick & other SubMersive owners-in-waiting,

It's all quiet out there! What's the news?

Let's hear about your new arrivals, eh?! Pics, reviews, impressions, anything would be great. :)

Another (dual) SubMersive owner in waiting here. I've sold my other subs so am theater-less until they show up:(

Mine should be here today. Ill be out of town till next week so will post impressions when i get a chance to set it up.

Can't wait to hear both of your impressions.

Can't wait to hear both of your impressions.


Hey Mike-

I'm not sure if it's still of interest to you but I'm in line for 3 Catalysts for LCR and two Sparks for rears. I'm about an hour North of Philly and when everything is set up I'm going to have a small meet. You would be welcome. Right now I'm running a SubMersive which I'm very happy with. I thought the house was going to come down last night watching The Godfather!!

Chris

Hey Mike-

I'm not sure if it's still of interest to you but I'm in line for 3 Catalysts for LCR and two Sparks for rears. I'm about an hour North of Philly and when everything is set up I'm going to have a small meet. You would be welcome. Right now I'm running a SubMersive which I'm very happy with. I thought the house was going to come down last night watching The Godfather!!

Chris

yea, I would definitely try and make that meet. Please keep me informed.
Thanks

what level should I have this thing set to?

what level should I have this thing set to?

Just calibrate it normally. Relative to your other speakers, depending on how much you like bass and how crazy you are:eek:, you could set it 4-5db above the rest of your system.

what number on the volume knob do you have it set at?

anyone see this post ?

he's running his submersive +10db hot and master volume at 0db and wondering why it was cutting out on this one scene

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16699952#post16699952

anyone see this post ?

he's running his submersive +10db hot and master volume at 0db and wondering why it was cutting out on this one scene

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16699952#post16699952

Some (like Mikeduke :p ) get scared at -10dB. Others will immediately keep pushing and searching material until they explore the ultimate limits. It sounds like kirbybreezy is impressed. Every device has some ultimate limit, no matter how high that is, and if you keep upping the volume 3-10dB you will undoubtedly find that limit at some point. I suspect with enough sub 15Hz content and pushing it hard enough, long enough, you could get the amp to say "one moment please..." ;) That's the indication you should start saving for another SubMersive for 2x the fun. :cool:

hey during lfe scenes the orange "clipping" light is coming on, is this normal? not watching at extremely high levels, around -10, there is sound coming out, just wondered if that light was supposed to come on or not.
I shouldnt even be playing with this thing have so much to do before tomorrow, but everything stopped when the fed ex truck arrived

what number on the volume knob do you have it set at?

Hi firebrick,

Settings can range from -36dB to 0dB (full clockwise), depending on the electronics, speakers, and your room. Generally I would start at -10dB to 0dB and use an SPL meter to adjust the noise test signals for 1-5dB more from the subwoofer channel than the main channels using C weighting. It is preferred to not have your receiver/pre-pro subwoofer channel set higher than say +6dB, but it will typically still function fine at most any level setting. You can adjust the level dial to more negative (quieter) or closer to zero (louder) to allow the receiver channel output to be set in the -6dB to + 6dB range, preferably closer to 0dB or less.

Enjoy! :)

hey during lfe scenes the orange "clipping" light is coming on, is this normal? not watching at extremely high levels, around -10, there is sound coming out, just wondered if that light was supposed to come on or not.
I shouldnt even be playing with this thing have so much to do before tomorrow, but everything stopped when the fed ex truck arrived

It is not uncommon for the yellow light to flicker during some explosions and the like. On some movies -10dB can be very loud, on others not at all. If you just plugged in and played, you could easily have the subwoofer 5-15dB louder than the main speakers. Another location may also provide much greater output, and finally equalization and integration with the main speakers can make dramatic differences. An SPL meter combined with the included Audio Toolkit DVD can help greatly in improving the sound of the entire system.

The issue for me of having a sub 10db hotter than everything else is that it can make center channel vocals very chesty and unnatural sounding ... but whatever floats your boat!!

The issue for me of having a sub 10db hotter than everything else is that it can make center channel vocals very chesty and unnatural sounding ... but whatever floats your boat!!

that's why you need to put a small sub on your center and run it large so you can run the LFE channel as hot as you want :)

This may be OT and if so I apologize.

I have two SubMersives arriving soon (Mark, are you reading this?) and have an Onkyo 885 processor with Audyssey. Virtually ALL of the reading I have done on Audyssey says for the best performance, set the crossover to all your speakers to 80Hz (regardless of their capabilities). My mains are solid to the 20's and my center is solid (which is basically the same as my main but configured horizontally) to the 30's. Has anyone played around with full range L, C, R and set a lower than 80Hz x-over into their SubMersives and compared that to the what it sounds like at 80Hz? That would certainly solve the center channel vocal problem with an increased LFE channel over other channels!

Thanks!!

Right now I'm running a SubMersive which I'm very happy with. I thought the house was going to come down last night watching The Godfather!!
Chris

Now we're talking! This is what I want to hear (literally)! :D

All too brief, though, Hudda...

Spare any more impressions/reviews/Holy Cow scenes, etc.?

Generally I would start at -10dB to 0dB and use an SPL meter to adjust the noise test signals for 1-5dB more from the subwoofer channel than the main channels using C weighting. It is preferred to not have your receiver/pre-pro subwoofer channel set higher than say +6dB, but it will typically still function fine at most any level setting. You can adjust the level dial to more negative (quieter) or closer to zero (louder) to allow the receiver channel output to be set in the -6dB to + 6dB range, preferably closer to 0dB or less.

Another location may also provide much greater output, and finally equalization and integration with the main speakers can make dramatic differences. An SPL meter combined with the included Audio Toolkit DVD can help greatly in improving the sound of the entire system.

:D:D:D

It is embarassing how much I'm enjoying Mark's pointers on tweeking...

This is my shipping-window week and I'm truly giddy like a school-girl. I, too, sold my sub and am "theater-less." I feel your pain Audioguy. :(

I can see how Firebrick dropped all his pre-trip packing, etc. once the big truck with the big box arrived. ;)

I know how you feel allredp! I just read Mark's tweaking tips. If you can find the time take some nice pics when yours arrives. I'm going to be upgrading from a Def Tech Pro Sub 60, so I'm thinking this is going to be sweet! :eek: My shipping window doesnt open until next Thurs, so i have some time to wait still. Any news is better than no news during the wait!:D

Some (like Mikeduke :p ) get scared at -10dB. Others will immediately keep pushing and searching material until they explore the ultimate limits. It sounds like kirbybreezy is impressed. Every device has some ultimate limit, no matter how high that is, and if you keep upping the volume 3-10dB you will undoubtedly find that limit at some point. I suspect with enough sub 15Hz content and pushing it hard enough, long enough, you could get the amp to say "one moment please..." ;) That's the indication you should start saving for another SubMersive for 2x the fun. :cool:

Hey now, play fair:D. You know what my room is like. I was having a heart attack when you ran Master and Commander. My ears would be ringing for days if did that on a regular basis. I am fairly certain that it is still calibrated correctly. -16 is quite fine thank you very much. But the little devil in me wishes he could go louder. The thing about my system is that I find the limits of the room much quicker then I find the limits of the acctual system.

what number on the volume knob do you have it set at?11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY
.

This may be OT and if so I apologize.

I have two SubMersives arriving soon (Mark, are you reading this?) and have an Onkyo 885 processor with Audyssey. Virtually ALL of the reading I have done on Audyssey says for the best performance, set the crossover to all your speakers to 80Hz (regardless of their capabilities). My mains are solid to the 20's and my center is solid (which is basically the same as my main but configured horizontally) to the 30's.
Thanks!!

Just out of curiosity, have you read the Audyssey Setup Guide, linked in my signature?

Mark

Just out of curiosity, have you read the Audyssey Setup Guide, linked in my signature?

Mark

Actually, I have --- several times.

What I was asking is (and I quote) "Has anyone played around with full range L, C, R and set a lower than 80Hz x-over into their SubMersives and compared that to the what it sounds like at 80Hz?. And I was specifically asking about the SubMersive sub.

Audioguy - Just out of curiosity if you don't mind saying, what brand and model are your main and center speakers?
I have Axiom M80s and I like them quite well. But I feel like they could use the help of a pair of Submersives (one of these days)

I had a friend come over the other day and I had turned him on to Crystal Method - Tweekend and he demoed it in his car which has a hefty amp and 2 12s, it made the hair stand up on your head heheh. It was quite bass heavy but not real musical, we took the RS SPL meter out and it was measuring 125 db. I didn't realize there was all that bass in that particular cd until then. So it sounds musical in my house but I definitely want the benefits of a Submersive or two. Keep it musical but fat.

Audioguy - Just out of curiosity if you don't mind saying, what brand and model are your main and center speakers?
I have Axiom M80s and I like them quite well. But I feel like they could use the help of a pair of Submersives (one of these days)

Dunlavy Audio Lab SC-IV-A are the left and right and they do not need a sub for two channel. They have plenty of strong, clean, articulate bass and can reproduce in the 20's very easily. The center channel is a Dunlavy HRCC (High Resolution Center Channel) which is the identical driver complement as the SC-IV-A but configured differently. My "eventually soon to be delivered one of these days hopefully" dual SubMersives are for movies (and concert videos) only.

I am evaluating getting some of Mark's other speakers to replace my Dunlavys (Catalyst and Sparks) but need to hear them in a two channel system first. Then I will need the subs even for two channel!!

Actually, I have --- several times.

What I was asking is (and I quote) "Has anyone played around with full range L, C, R and set a lower than 80Hz x-over into their SubMersives and compared that to the what it sounds like at 80Hz?. And I was specifically asking about the SubMersive sub.

I'm anxious to test this myself as I've been running my Dali Mentor 8's (dual 8" bass drivers) with a 50hz x-over with my old SVS Ultra in HT. For music it was a no-contest to run "pure audio" through my Onkyo 875--if I added the Ultra music got muddy and heavy. The Dali's rock into the upper 20's just fine, but I'm in the quest for even more. ;)

The SubMersive is reportedly much stronger on the mid-bass than the Ultra, and so I'm similarly curious about the SQ of the Submersive runing the <80hz music (and HT) vs. just my Dali's.

Can't wait...

So it sounds musical in my house but I definitely want the benefits of a Submersive or two. Keep it musical but fat.
We're on the same page, Larry. :)

When I get my SubMersive you're welcome to a demo--I'm not unreachably far from Sheridan I wouldn't think.

We're on the same page, Larry. :)

When I get my SubMersive you're welcome to a demo--I'm not unreachably far from Sheridan I wouldn't think.

cool I will take you up on that.

Just spent half of my sub on a root canal :)

♠

so those Dunlavy SC-IV/As have a pair of 10" drivers in each speaker? I see what you mean about going solid down in the 20s

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/dunlavy_sciva.htm♠♠

Actually, I have --- several times.

What I was asking is (and I quote) "Has anyone played around with full range L, C, R and set a lower than 80Hz x-over into their SubMersives and compared that to the what it sounds like at 80Hz?. And I was specifically asking about the SubMersive sub.

Sure... I did this expirement with my Mirage M3si's which are flat to 27hz and still found my selfback at 80Hz.... 40 Hz had some interesting effects for music but for HT it was lacking and making the mains work too hard and see to diminish the overall dynamics of the system. I finally ended up back at 80hz.

Sean

that's why you need to put a small sub on your center and run it large so you can run the LFE channel as hot as you want :)

Or just use a house curve with your EQ that boosts more below 40 hz.

The issue for me of having a sub 10db hotter than everything else is that it can make center channel vocals very chesty and unnatural sounding ... but whatever floats your boat!!

that's why you need to put a small sub on your center and run it large so you can run the LFE channel as hot as you want :)

Or just use a house curve with your EQ that boosts more below 40 hz.
Which is something the 8033 does automatically (by max 7dB) selectable for below 35Hz or 25Hz. :cool:

I know how you feel allredp! I just read Mark's tweaking tips. If you can find the time take some nice pics when yours arrives. I'm going to be upgrading from a Def Tech Pro Sub 60, so I'm thinking this is going to be sweet! :eek: My shipping window doesnt open until next Thurs, so i have some time to wait still. Any news is better than no news during the wait!:D

Will do--full pics, review, etc. will be forthcoming--once my sub shows up! My shipping window is nearly past, but Mark is a man of his word so no worries. :) Should have a great report up next week. I've been really missing my HT in the meantime... :(

cool I will take you up on that.

Just spent half of my sub on a root canal :)

♠

Dang! I just had an implant put in myself and that's a major chunk of change...

Make sure whatever the dentist puts in there is secure--the SubMersive is supposed to be "dangerous" to structural integrity. :D

Sweet! Mark has confirmed my SubMersive will ship Wednesday--just 2 days outside my original shipping window due to a parts snafu. With serious luck I'll be tweeking and grinning during the holiday weekend. :D

In the meantime, let's get some more pics of the SubMersive in people's rooms, eh?! I still have a solid week or more to wait and I need to pass the time! ;)

Apologies, creating second post so I can make a 3rd with a hyperlink...

Man, you ought to download Danley's fireworks sound file
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/technical%20downloads.html

and see how it compares to the real fireworks. =D

Has anyone tried this out on their submersive?

Man, you ought to download Danley's fireworks sound file
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/technical%20downloads.html

and see how it compares to the real fireworks. =D

Has anyone tried this out on their submersive?

DAMN YOU! Looking for a blank CD now.

hahaha =D I can't wait to hear back from you on this! I've read quite a few of your posts on seaton-sound-forum. hopefully I'll be getting mine end of the summer or early fall.

I've emailed him, pm'd him and left voice mail starting last Sunday. Still no response. I've got money buring in a hole in my pocket for a Submersive! :confused:

hahaha =D I can't wait to hear back from you on this! I've read quite a few of your posts on seaton-sound-forum. hopefully I'll be getting mine end of the summer or early fall.

I received a Cease and Desist order from my wife when the MV hit +6 db. The EQ was using a setting with a +6 db house curve mostly below 40 hz, so the deep parts were about +12 db from "reference". The SubMersive was hardly waking up, and far from breaking a sweat.

The bass content seems pretty good, but the levels are low so it is more a test of quality than a max output test.

The harley sounds great, the fireworks sound like they are a half mile away (as he says they were in the notes). I'll have to see if they can be burned at a higher level without clipping the source to see if we can get the SubMersive's clip light to come on, but that aint happenin tonight with kids in bed and wife already agitated. ;)

I need to get a quality mic and record my black powder cannon for all of you bass fans. That and a .300 WSM with a BOSS unit. That sucker is LOUD with 30 db ear muffs!

Just be patient. Sometimes he takes a while, but mark will get back to you. The wait is worth it!

I've emailed him, pm'd him and left voice mail starting last Sunday. Still no response. I've got money buring in a hole in my pocket for a Submersive! :confused:

He tends to get behind on communication, he will catch up. Think of it as part of the hazing/initiation into the club. It can suck, but only for a brief time, and then the rewards kick in.

He tends to get behind on communication, he will catch up. Think of it as part of the hazing/initiation into the club. It can suck, but only for a brief time, and then the rewards kick in.

Now I know how Pinto felt in Animal House. :(

Man, you ought to download Danley's fireworks sound file
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/technical%20downloads.html

and see how it compares to the real fireworks. =D

Has anyone tried this out on their submersive?

I ran the files through spectrum lab. The peaks on the fireworks are mostly -30db or lower with the highest I saw at -24.75 db or so. You will have to REALLY crank it up to test a submersives limits.

The loaded coal train has some nice peaks that are close to -11db, but not super deep, actually more toward 90 hz. with some in the low 40's and low 20's. Train start has more even bass content below 5 hz to 80+ with a few brief peaks.

I ran the files through spectrum lab. The peaks on the fireworks are mostly -30db or lower with the highest I saw at -24.75 db or so. You will have to REALLY crank it up to test a submersives limits.

The loaded coal train has some nice peaks that are close to -11db, but not super deep, actually more toward 90 hz. with some in the low 40's and low 20's. Train start has more even bass content below 5 hz to 80+ with a few brief peaks.

where was the bass on the fireworks? what frequency are the -24db and -30db peaks?

nvm i just figured it out myself. i'm not the best with this program but here is what i got: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/cavalier94sq/fireworkswavefilespectrumanalysis.jpg

looks like the best stuff is between 3:38 and 3:54 and it peaks between 45 and about 18hz, with some lighter stuff dropping down pretty much all the way down to 0

it's late but i played it at -8 on my Epik Sentinel and there is definitely some punch there. sounds pretty neat, i'll have to crank it up tomorrow.

Here is the end of the track (end on top), sorry I did not have any time markers on. The cursor is missing in the grab, but the info box shows you the peak and frequency info. Not bad, and quite enjoyable, but not anything that will clip a SubMersive.


edit: image removed because it was fubared.

I received a Cease and Desist order from my wife when the MV hit +6 db.

did she use the infamous TTFSD!!!!! command ?

I've emailed him, pm'd him and left voice mail starting last Sunday. Still no response. I've got money buring in a hole in my pocket for a Submersive! :confused:

Hi tbailey,

You have an e-mail. :)

I was out of town for a marathon install & calibration this weekend in Iowa where we have a system with a Dolby Lake and 2 SubMersives and Sparks pulling surround duty around a new set of insanely priced, but very nice sounding, Rockport Mira Grands and matching center. I rolled back into Chicago after 2am on Monday night (Tues, morn?) and am working on shipping SubMersives destined to go out this week.

Lead times posted on my forum are still accurate.

I look forward to chatting. :cool:

Mark, how are the veneered Submersives coming along ?

I ran the files through spectrum lab. The peaks on the fireworks are mostly -30db or lower with the highest I saw at -24.75 db or so. You will have to REALLY crank it up to test a submersives limits.

The loaded coal train has some nice peaks that are close to -11db, but not super deep, actually more toward 90 hz. with some in the low 40's and low 20's. Train start has more even bass content below 5 hz to 80+ with a few brief peaks.

I got to hear that recording when Tom first made it and it really is something. You simply don't find uncompressed recordings of things like that. As the dynamic range and crest factor is so huge, the average level is low, so you do need to turn it up a good 10-30dB more than most music CDs. That track can clip ANY system if turned up loud enough, and is especially fun to hear through Catalysts & dual SubMersives. :D

Mark, how are the veneered Submersives coming along ?

I just picked up the sample of the black oak which looks VERY nice for the small premium over the standard black, and I have stain samples now for espresso and red on cherry wood veneer. All 3 of these are available and I have updated the thread on my forum detailing pricing and availability. Note all of the real wood veneer options include magnetic grills so you won't see grill peg holes in the veneer if you prefer to leave them off.

These enclosures come from another local builder, making lead times very manageable and giving me lots of flexibility. Later I intend to offer a flat fee for a color matching of a provided sample which can then be applied to as many speakers as you like. All finishes are water based, and relatively eco-friendly as compared to what typically comes from China, and we also are CARB-2 compliant which is required now for sale into California. Later this summer I'll have to post a video of the workshop these come from, as the operation is very impressive.

I just picked up the sample of the black oak which looks VERY nice for the small premium over the standard black, and I have stain samples now for espresso and red on cherry wood veneer. All 3 of these are available and I have updated the thread on my forum detailing pricing and availability. Note all of the real wood veneer options include magnetic grills so you won't see grill peg holes in the veneer if you prefer to leave them off.

These enclosures come from another local builder, making lead times very manageable and giving me lots of flexibility. Later I intend to offer a flat fee for a color matching of a provided sample which can then be applied to as many speakers as you like. All finishes are water based, and relatively eco-friendly as compared to what typically comes from China, and we also are CARB-2 compliant which is required now for sale into California. Later this summer I'll have to post a video of the workshop these come from, as the operation is very impressive.

I'm excited to see the black oaks!

All I've heard Tom's recording on is my mains, I can not wait to get a subwoofer =D

while you were in iowa mark you could have stopped by and calibrated my system :) im a dunce when it comes to that I still have to go get an spl meter from radio shack. btw the submersive is doing unfriendly things to my walls and light fixtures.

That track can clip ANY system if turned up loud enough, and is especially fun to hear through Catalysts & dual SubMersives. :D

I am going to run out of room on the pre-amp stage before I hit clipping levels. Instead of buying a new pre-amp, any software suggestions for raising the levels about 20 db without compressing or otherwise degrading the signal quality?

did she use the infamous TTFSD!!!!! command ?

Worse! Turning it down was not an option I was offered.

Hi tbailey,

You have an e-mail. :)

Lead times posted on my forum are still accurate.

I look forward to chatting. :cool:

Email replied to. Credit card at the gunslinger position. :D:D:D

I am going to run out of room on the pre-amp stage before I hit clipping levels. Instead of buying a new pre-amp, any software suggestions for raising the levels about 20 db without compressing or otherwise degrading the signal quality?Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) maybe?

I am going to run out of room on the pre-amp stage before I hit clipping levels. Instead of buying a new pre-amp, any software suggestions for raising the levels about 20 db without compressing or otherwise degrading the signal quality?

Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) maybe?

Turning it up much will clip the peaks. I recall Tom shifted it up close to 0dB.

Better off to just turn up the channel levels temporarily and the input to the SubMersive. Most pre-amps or receivers should let you go to +10 to +20dB.

Turning it up much will clip the peaks. I recall Tom shifted it up close to 0dB.

Better off to just turn up the channel levels temporarily and the input to the SubMersive. Most pre-amps or receivers should let you go to +10 to +20dB.

that's what i thought. when i ran it through Cool Edit Pro it said one channel's peak was -.06 and the other was -.03. so the highest peak is right at 0db.

the overall level does sound low. even the peaks took a lot of volume on my AVR to get loud. so i'm a little confused. i played it at 0 on my AVR with the sub about 5 or 6 hot.

Turning it up much will clip the peaks. I recall Tom shifted it up close to 0dB.He could always take it down to the local FM station and have them work their magic on it. I hear they're experts at this sort of thing. ;)

Turning it up much will clip the peaks. I recall Tom shifted it up close to 0dB.

That does not seem to be the case with the file I have. I am not sure how reliable Spectrum lab is at reading a .wav file, but the other tracks show peaks about 15db higher with the same settings, so I am pretty sure there is room to raise the level without compression. Maybe there are some peaks well above the sub frequencies I did not see.

Also, I was already playing it at +12 db and the meters on my EQ box did not show any peaks approaching the levels I see from a reference level movie demo, or bass heavy music tracks played 12-15 db lower. My ears and body agreed.

Never mind, definitely something screwy on my end. Audacity is agreeing with what Mark said and with mcjasonb's cool edit pro.

edit: Cut a clean CD with the file right out of my download directory and it definitely had WAY more bass, like 24 db more. No clue what I did to it, but now the meters are jumpin' and the woofers are trying to escape the box. Expecting divorce papers any minute now :D

Never mind, definitely something screwy on my end. Audacity is agreeing with what Mark said and with mcjasonb's cool edit pro.

edit: Cut a clean CD with the file right out of my download directory and it definitely had WAY more bass, like 24 db more. No clue what I did to it, but now the meters are jumpin' and the woofers are trying to escape the box. Expecting divorce papers any minute now :D

this is the waveform analysis:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/cavalier94sq/fireworkswaveform.jpg

any more and you'll start clipping and compressing stuff.

yep, exactly what audacity shows.

yep, exactly what audacity shows.

cool, we got to the bottom of it! :D

Here is the frequency content of that last burst from about 3:35-3:55. I think I need subs that can go deeper than the SubMersive for this one!

http://www.m-fine.com/fireworks3.JPG

Here is the frequency content of that last burst from about 3:35-3:55. I think I need subs that can go deeper than the SubMersive for this one!

http://www.m-fine.com/fireworks3.JPG

:eek::eek::eek:

That's incredible...

BTW, m-fine416, how does the SubMersive sound on this even though it has strong content to 3 hz (and below?!)?

In fact, while you're at it, help an owner-in-waiting out by sharing about something cool you listened to recently on the SubMersive, with any kind of details you can muster. Much obliged!

hahaha, this is what I wanted to hear mfine =D

Yeah, how does it sound performing this? =)

TRW-Thigpen Rotary Woofer. That's the only thing I know of that can handle that stuff.....

TRW-Thigpen Rotary Woofer. That's the only thing I know of that can handle that stuff.....


i would think 2 or more submersives could be EQ'd flat to 3hz

depending on room size

Here is the frequency content of that last burst from about 3:35-3:55. I think I need subs that can go deeper than the SubMersive for this one!

http://www.m-fine.com/fireworks3.JPG

I think I know of some subs that can help a submersive in that department... ;)

i would think 2 or more submersives could be EQ'd flat to 3hz

depending on room size

Make that: "EQ'd flat to 8hz, with still useable output at 5hz". ;)

I think I know of some subs that can help a submersive in that department... ;)

Also, which happened to be made by Mark Seaton, (I assume :D)

hahaha, this is what I wanted to hear mfine =D

Yeah, how does it sound performing this? =)

It is hard for me to evaluate because my room was not constructed for this kind of abuse. With that kind of frequency content, at high levels, anything and everything with a resonant frequency between 6 and 80 hz is vibrating. There is too much extra noise from the room to hear if the sub is starting to get audible distortion. The fireworks sound great, and the dynamics and "pop" are really cool, and you feel the impact of each blast. The room shakes which adds to the fun, but prevents an audiophile type critical evaluation.

My two SubMersives are to arrive tomorrow. Wonder what I'll be doing this weekend?

Given that I've had a few other subs in this specific room (dual Velodyne DD-18's; Dual SVS PC-13 Ultra's; Dual SVS PB12/Plus 2's), I'm anxious to find out what kind of decision I've made!!

i would think 2 or more submersives could be EQ'd flat to 3hz

depending on room size

Not likely. I am seeing a steep drop off below 8 hz. To get much deeper you would need electronics that pass and amplify a signal flat to 3 hz, including and EQ box that had filters that deep. I still don't think any reasonable number of SubMersives could do it. I am getting about 10db in drop off from 8 hz to 6 hz, by 3 hz I am down about 55db.

By 8 hz you are into a range where you can feel it in some cases, but not really hear anything. Below that you need insane levels to perceive much if anything.

I think I know of some subs that can help a submersive in that department... ;)

Not the terraforms. They will roll off well before 3hz as well. Perhaps Mark could build an XXXL version the size of a tractor trailer that is tuned to 3 hz, but I am not sure it would be practical! :D

In fact, while you're at it, help an owner-in-waiting out by sharing about something cool you listened to recently on the SubMersive, with any kind of details you can muster. Much obliged!

Well, sticking to the fireworks, what the SubMersive does on this track is give you the impact of the pops. Both the launch explosion and the shells bursting, including the "pretty ones" where the explosive is there for the spread. It is tight and sharp but also includes all the depth and fullness. Adding the supper deep does not make the upper bass flabby at all.

Then there are the boomers, not enough for my taste in that display, but a few of the flash and bang types that really shake you and the house. These are a little harder to evaluate because I have never set off professional fireworks inside my house, but my single sub is shaking everything in a way that seems realistic.

FWIW, pre 9/11 I used to get a ready supply of professional fireworks launched out of mortor tubes that were 3, 4, 6 and 8" in diameter. I know exactly what it sounds like to be within a meter of the launch tube when they blast off and pop over head. Beside the distance factor the recording and SubMersive performance is great. I can tell which pops are from launch charges and which are burst charges, all the detail is there. We need to get Tom an invitation to locate his mics real close so I can give a better evaluation from my preferred vantage point. :D Anyway, the "Tai Salutes" we got were 4" diameter spheres plus the launching charge that were nothing but bang, and you could really FEEL those things. I always did them outdoors, so there was never any house shaking noises to contend with though. I would love to hear the recording in a well built theater on 2-4 SubMersives to see how clean then can reproduce it.

My two SubMersives are to arrive tomorrow. Wonder what I'll be doing this weekend?


Visiting a chiropractor? :D

My two SubMersives are to arrive tomorrow. Wonder what I'll be doing this weekend?

Given that I've had a few other subs in this specific room (dual Velodyne DD-18's; Dual SVS PC-13 Ultra's; Dual SVS PB12/Plus 2's), I'm anxious to find out what kind of decision I've made!!

I've been lurking for quite a while and was wondering how the SubMersive would compare to the velodyne and PB-13. I was strongly considering the PB-13, Conquest and DD-18 but then stumbled upon this thread. My FSR-15 can't keep up at volumes as "low" as -20db from reference. Have a nice holiday all!!

The DD-18 is the top of Velodyne's current line. The SVS PC13 or PB13 will crush the DD-18 and the SubMersive will outdo the SVS subs.

Velodyne makes great products but you can do MUCH better elsewhere.

Well, sticking to the fireworks, what the SubMersive does on this track is give you the impact of the pops. Both the launch explosion and the shells bursting, including the "pretty ones" where the explosive is there for the spread. It is tight and sharp but also includes all the depth and fullness. Adding the supper deep does not make the upper bass flabby at all.

Then there are the boomers, not enough for my taste in that display, but a few of the flash and bang types that really shake you and the house. These are a little harder to evaluate because I have never set off professional fireworks inside my house, but my single sub is shaking everything in a way that seems realistic...


Fair enough. I doubt we'll be able to persuade you to pursue that course anyway =D

I've been lurking for quite a while and was wondering how the SubMersive would compare to the velodyne and PB-13. I was strongly considering the PB-13, Conquest and DD-18 but then stumbled upon this thread. My FSR-15 can't keep up at volumes as "low" as -20db from reference. Have a nice holiday all!!

I was looking at getting the conquest too, and I almost jumped on it when I could get a used one for $1300, but I'm holding off for the submersive =D

Make that: "EQ'd flat to 8hz, with still useable output at 5hz". ;)

which EQ are you using ?

The DD-18 is the top of Velodyne's current line. The SVS PC13 or PB13 will crush the DD-18 and the SubMersive will outdo the SVS subs.

Velodyne makes great products but you can do MUCH better elsewhere.

Actually the DD-1812 is the current top of the line from Velodyne. I don't imagine they sell many of them with a list price of $15,000 but there are still a lot of rich people out there.

Well, sticking to the fireworks, what the SubMersive does on this track is give you the impact of the pops. Both the launch explosion and the shells bursting, including the "pretty ones" where the explosive is there for the spread. It is tight and sharp but also includes all the depth and fullness. Adding the supper deep does not make the upper bass flabby at all.

Then there are the boomers, not enough for my taste in that display, but a few of the flash and bang types that really shake you and the house. These are a little harder to evaluate because I have never set off professional fireworks inside my house, but my single sub is shaking everything in a way that seems realistic.

mfine,

I'm placing my order today for 1 submersive. My room is an untreated 6300 cf. den room with hardwood floors with the rear of the room opening up to a 2000 cf. kitchen. I'm curious what size your listening room is? I'm hoping for the sake of marital bliss and checkbook balance this one submersive does it. :) I'll be using the sub 80/20 music/ht.

which EQ are you using ?

I was just quoting Mark's design specifications, mentioned by him elsewhere. But these were also my own findings with previous subs.

In a small to medium sized room where air pressure cannot (easily) escape you automatically gain 12db / octave below say 25Hz with any sub. Mark has built the Submersive to drop the same amount (12db / octave below 25Hz). So in all likelyhood you will find an almost flat curve there without any EQ. A really smart design feature!

Haven't bothered measuring that low yet as my SM's sound just fine as they are.

Actually the DD-1812 is the current top of the line from Velodyne. I don't imagine they sell many of them with a list price of $15,000 but there are still a lot of rich people out there.

This $$$ sub has a history of receiving bad reviews. Most recently in last months 'hi-fi news' (still in the shops), where they were seriously disappointed with all the loss in SQ (phase shift, etc.) because of extremely steep high pass filters used in this flagship sub.

Turning it up much will clip the peaks. I recall Tom shifted it up close to 0dB.

Better off to just turn up the channel levels temporarily and the input to the SubMersive. Most pre-amps or receivers should let you go to +10 to +20dB.Hey Mark have you ever used Bass Mechanik - Quad Maximus
it has test tones 20-20k, sine sweep 20-20k and pink noise

mfine,

I'm placing my order today for 1 submersive. My room is an untreated 6300 cf. den room with hardwood floors with the rear of the room opening up to a 2000 cf. kitchen.

That arena is screaming for dual submersives.... Alot of space to fill there, I'll be keeping an eye on how long until you add a second... :D

That arena is screaming for dual submersives.... Alot of space to fill there, I'll be keeping an eye on how long until you add a second... :D

My room is 3800 cuft. His space sounds large, but for 80% music, he will likely be very happy. The room shape and layout will have a big influnce on the deep bass performance, as will desired listening levels and expectations. I think most people would find the performance of a single SM in a large room simply shocking. A few of us nuts might yearn for more, but we are definitely on the fringe.

Fair enough. I doubt we'll be able to persuade you to pursue that course anyway =D


for a sum moderately higher than my rebuild costs, I would be glad to blow up my house for you! :D

My room is 3800 cuft. His space sounds large, but for 80% music, he will likely be very happy. The room shape and layout will have a big influnce on the deep bass performance, as will desired listening levels and expectations. I think most people would find the performance of a single SM in a large room simply shocking. A few of us nuts might yearn for more, but we are definitely on the fringe.


Well as you know, there is always a starting point... and this is his, and when he starts to get to the point he would like it a bit more visceral for movies or smoothing out the reponse in such a large room.... all I'm saying is I can see it coming.... :)

Mark saw the nightmarish dimensions of my room which is even much larger, and I have 3x18, 1x15 sealed in there, and its finally giving me the impact I have been after.... YMMV

Well, sticking to the fireworks, what the SubMersive does on this track is give you the impact of the pops. Both the launch explosion and the shells bursting, including the "pretty ones" where the explosive is there for the spread. It is tight and sharp but also includes all the depth and fullness. Adding the supper deep does not make the upper bass flabby at all.

Then there are the boomers, not enough for my taste in that display, but a few of the flash and bang types that really shake you and the house. These are a little harder to evaluate because I have never set off professional fireworks inside my house, but my single sub is shaking everything in a way that seems realistic.

...Beside the distance factor the recording and SubMersive performance is great. I can tell which pops are from launch charges and which are burst charges, all the detail is there... I would love to hear the recording in a well built theater on 2-4 SubMersives to see how clean then can reproduce it.
Great description! You are kind to us "waiters" out there...

I know there are only so many subjective "oh's" and "ah's" you can give or receive via an online forum, but your details are much appreciated!

My room is only 3,100 sq ft (sealed), so I'm very excited to hear about your impressions on the SubMersive's impact, detail, and power in your slightly larger room.

I'm coming from a single PB 13 Ultra and before that I had a JL F113 for a night of a/b demo between it and the PB12+/2. My first sub was an old M&K V2-b (sealed 12" with 125w).

I'm very interested in audioguy's impressions considering what subs he's had in the past!