My room is 3800 cuft. His space sounds large, but for 80% music, he will likely be very happy. The room shape and layout will have a big influnce on the deep bass performance, as will desired listening levels and expectations. I think most people would find the performance of a single SM in a large room simply shocking. A few of us nuts might yearn for more, but we are definitely on the fringe.

Great summary m-fine, and pretty much on the mark. With large rooms, construction of the nearby walls and efficiency of the location of the subwoofer will greatly influence how impressive the results are. If the hardwood floor happens to have a crawl space or basement under it, that tends to make for an even great impression of loudness.

Well as you know, there is always a starting point... and this is his, and when he starts to get to the point he would like it a bit more visceral for movies or smoothing out the reponse in such a large room.... all I'm saying is I can see it coming.... :)

I'm a dead man if my wife sees this post! :eek::D:eek:

I'm a dead man if my wife sees this post! :eek::D:eek:

No, your a dead man when your wife hears EXPERIENCES the SubMersive for the first time!

My wife took one look at the large black box I had just unpacked, announced "that thing is obnoxious" and then went upstairs. At the time I think it was the best review she had given a piece of audio equipment, but the title was short lived.

After I got it hooked up and a brief calibration, I cranked the volume up and put in the Legion of Doom DVD-A (I know its you). The result shook the door to my theater so much it ripped the door knob to pieces. It also shook the house enough that my my wife returned from the second floor, back to the basement and upgraded her earlier review to "That thing is F!@#ing obnoxious". That is the highest praise she has ever placed on a piece of audio equipment, and I expect it will remain so for a long long time. :D

If the hardwood floor happens to have a crawl space or basement under it, that tends to make for an even great impression of loudness.

So that is my problem? Because my floor is on a concrete slab, I need to get at least 3 more SubMersives right? Going to give the wife the good news, I'll give her your number Mark, just in case she want to "discuss" the details with you. ;)

No, your a dead man when your wife hears EXPERIENCES the SubMersive for the first time!

My wife took one look at the large black box I had just unpacked, announced "that thing is obnoxious" and then went upstairs. At the time I think it was the best review she had given a piece of audio equipment, but the title was short lived.

After I got it hooked up and a brief calibration, I cranked the volume up and put in the Legion of Doom DVD-A (I know its you). The result shook the door to my theater so much it ripped the door knob to pieces. It also shook the house enough that my my wife returned from the second floor, back to the basement and upgraded her earlier review to "That thing is F!@#ing obnoxious". That is the highest praise she has ever placed on a piece of audio equipment, and I expect it will remain so for a long long time. :D


That's hilarious! The comments I received were "Oh my God" and "Is that a refrigerator?" lol.

No, your a dead man when your wife hears EXPERIENCES the SubMersive for the first time!

My wife took one look at the large black box I had just unpacked, announced "that thing is obnoxious" and then went upstairs. At the time I think it was the best review she had given a piece of audio equipment, but the title was short lived.

After I got it hooked up and a brief calibration, I cranked the volume up and put in the Legion of Doom DVD-A (I know its you). The result shook the door to my theater so much it ripped the door knob to pieces. It also shook the house enough that my my wife returned from the second floor, back to the basement and upgraded her earlier review to "That thing is F!@#ing obnoxious". That is the highest praise she has ever placed on a piece of audio equipment, and I expect it will remain so for a long long time. :D

That's hilarious! The comments I received were "Oh my God" and "Is that a refrigerator?" lol.

Its rare when I actually laugh out loud reading things online, but that was hilarious! "that is the highest praise she has ever placed on a piece of audio equipment" LOL

With large rooms, construction of the nearby walls and efficiency of the location of the subwoofer will greatly influence how impressive the results are. If the hardwood floor happens to have a crawl space or basement under it, that tends to make for an even great impression of loudness.

I might have a reprieve since my hardwood floors DO have a crawl space underneath.... at least unless m-fine's fringe could include "lunatic fringe" which I've been known to be an honorary member when I've had too much "wild turkey 101". I'll have to warn the Mrs. to hide the bottle before the first night's audition. :D:D:D It sure is nice living in the country with no close neighbors.

Mark, funds sent! :)

In fact, while you're at it, help an owner-in-waiting out by sharing about something cool you listened to recently on the SubMersive, with any kind of details you can muster. Much obliged!

A few other good SubMersive tests.

First demo, as I mentioned was I know its you from Legion of Doom DVD-A. My theater door is in a corner where the base energy is extra heavy, and it simply could not take what the single SM could deliver. This is a great tactile bass track, the couch vibrates, pant legs dance on your skin, and even bare skin can crawl. How loud can my gen one SubMersive play this track before the limiter trips? Loud enough to peg the needle on my RS meter.

Demo 2, after picking up the door knob debris, and jamming the door in place with towels, Finding Nemo, Darla scene was up next. My theater is on a hot water heat system, and the thermostat is on the wall behind the sub. You know how the starfish clings to the glass saying "find a happy place, find a happy place"? Well, the thermostat did not cling so well, but the wires kept it from finding an unhappy place on the floor. Other parts of Nemo are great too. with a 10 foot screen and the SubMersive, you feel the full scale of the whale scenes. Darla is great fun, but the whale scenes while more subtle, IMHO, really demonstrate how the sub can add to the realism and immersion of the movie watching experience.

These are tests of output capability, some good quality tests;

Pink Floyd:

The Dark Side of the Moon leads off with a lovely little diddy about insanity that starts with a fade in of Edger Alan Poe's Tell Tale Heart. I have the SACD which is one of the few where I think surround really adds to the music, but the quality of the bass is also excellent. The heart beat is tight and hits hard as it builds. I often use this track as a first intro to sub virgins. As they start to not only hear the beats but feel them they get that wow look on their face. Then it keeps building

The Wall, Another brick in the wall part 400033 or something like that, has a greak kick drum in the track before the helicopter and somewhat after it. The best part is from the end of the pre copter track, and the drum beats hit hard and tight, without getting muddy or interfering with the more delicate notes.


Chesky:

Chesky records has some great recordings, many are pure performances mic to ADC, with no mixing board and overdubbing, and certainly no compression. You get all the details and all the dynamics they can capture.

On the 20th anniversary album, second disk, there is a track of "Oh Well" by Billy Burnette, where there is an acoustic bass upfront and center and an electric band behind. The track alternates between the solo acoustic bass and the electric band kicking in full force. The SubMersive handles all the detail of the acoustic instrument with a precision and grace that belies the power of the beast that is hiding in waiting. If you heard this track first you would never guess it could also do what it can with Legion of Boom or Darla.

Chesky has a lot of tracks with good acoustic bass, but if you pick up the Chesky "Ultimate Demonstration Disk" (HIGHLY recommended for any audiophile) there is a bass resonance test (accoustic bass) and also solo drummer slowly building up to a crescendo called the dynamic test. Both are excellent on the SubMersive which can play both gentle and hit hard like no other sub I have experienced. The warning the narrator gives before the dynamic test is especially comical, the SubMersive laughs off that track and says BRING IT ON. You will need to try a lot harder to break a SubMersive ;) Sweet Georgia brown and I Love Paris are two other great tracks on that disk. Also, Rebecca Pidgeon's Spanish Harlem is a great test of fidelity and realism for any system, one of the best recordings to just close your eyes and fall into, and it starts with just her voice and a solo acoustic bass gently plucking out the groove. I can't imagine anyone who likes music not feeling that magic of that piece on a good system.

I might have a reprieve since my hardwood floors DO have a crawl space underneath.... at least unless m-fine's fringe could include "lunatic fringe" which I've been known to be an honorary member when I've had too much "wild turkey 101".

If you are the type of person who buys a black powder cannon for fun, you might be a lunatic. If the 30-40 grains of powder the manual recommends fails to impress you, so you work your way up to 800+ grains and set off the neighbors car alarms with the shock wave, you just MIGHT be a lunatic. If you ever listened to a bass heavy recording that caused minor damage to your home, and you said "but the drywall didn't crack, maybe I need to order another one of these" you are DEFINITELY a lunatic. Not that I know anyone like that :eek:

Its rare when I actually laugh out loud reading things online, but that was hilarious! "that is the highest praise she has ever placed on a piece of audio equipment" LOL

Mark's sig line mentions the ability to stir a man's blood, but don't let it fool you into thinking he only thinks about men. His designs will not only stir a mans blood, they can also cause a woman's to boil!

A few other good SubMersive tests.

First demo, as I mentioned was I know its you from Legion of Doom DVD-A. ...
Demo 2, after picking up the door knob debris, and jamming the door in place with towels, Finding Nemo, Darla scene was up next.... Other parts of Nemo are great too. with a 10 foot screen and the SubMersive, you feel the full scale of the whale scenes. Darla is great fun, but the whale scenes while more subtle, IMHO, really demonstrate how the sub can add to the realism and immersion of the movie watching experience.

These are tests of output capability, some good quality tests;

Pink Floyd:

The Dark Side of the Moon leads off with a lovely little diddy about insanity that starts with a fade in of Edger Alan Poe's Tell Tale Heart....

The Wall, Another brick in the wall part 400033 or something like that...

Chesky:

On the 20th anniversary album, second disk, there is a track of "Oh Well" by Billy Burnette....

Chesky has a lot of tracks with good acoustic bass, but if you pick up the Chesky "Ultimate Demonstration Disk" (HIGHLY recommended for any audiophile)....
Excellent demo info!!!

Thanks to your fantastic posts I can pass another day in waiting. :D

BTW, do you have a personal HT page? I'd love to see your setup and other equipment

Excellent demo info!!! I'm off to order the Chesky discs...

Thanks to your fantastic posts I can pass another day in waiting. :D

The waiting sucks, but it adds to the joy when the fun arrives. It is sorta like when your wife teases you with...um...nevermind! :D

The waiting sucks, but it adds to the joy when the fun arrives. It is sorta like when your wife teases you with...um...nevermind! :D

aaahhhhhh.....donuts...

Homer Simpson ;)

The waiting sucks, but it adds to the joy when the fun arrives. It is sorta like when your wife teases you with...um...nevermind! :D

No doubt!!! ;)

I have been considering a single Submersive for my 7000 cu ft space but am wondering what kind of response I would get between 15 and 30 Hz. I am 90% HT, 10% music. My family room is 17' x 18' but has a 13' x 8' opening to a dinette open to a kitchen for a total of 7000 cubic feet. The entire space is on a concrete slab and half of the walls are six inch outside walls with lots of windows.

From descriptions I read on this forum it seems that the Submersive can perform very well in a large space, especially the midbass which is important ot me. However, I'm unclear as to how a single Submersive would perform at these lower frequencies. I'm not sure I have sufficient room gain although as mfine pointed out on Seaton's Sound forum (m-fine416 is that you?) I really have a 3000 cubic foot room with a large opening to the adjoining space.

Would a Terraform be a better solution? My budget is limited to about $3000. Because of this room size I am also considering dual Epik Dynasties which would allow me to balance out my room's frequency response while staying in budget. Any other suggestions?

(Mark, if you're reading this are you still planning on having a Submersive at the N California meet? Any other subs?)

Larry

My two SubMersives are to arrive tomorrow. Wonder what I'll be doing this weekend?

Given that I've had a few other subs in this specific room (dual Velodyne DD-18's; Dual SVS PC-13 Ultra's; Dual SVS PB12/Plus 2's), I'm anxious to find out what kind of decision I've made!!

So looking forward to your comparisons.

(m-fine416 is that you?)

Yes, when I signed up here years ago, m-fine and mfine were both taken by people who never posted. I just looked to see if they were still taken but unused and I was able to grab "m-fine" so thanks for the prod!

OH NO! Now there are two of me, you are all SCREWED!!!!

OH NO! Now there are two of me, you are all SCREWED!!!!

LOL. Seemed logical but I didn't want to presume. I put my foot in my mouth enough as it is. Thanks for your responses. You've been very helpful.

Larry

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer.

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer.

so many people ask how can the submersive sound that good, or XXXX is so good or ....... but until you hear/feel one in person, it just cant be trully put into words

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer.

it should be a whole new experience. the 15TL from 1998 was a transmission line ported sub probably tuned around the mid to upper 20s

stepping from that into the submersive should be like stepping into a top fuel dragster for the first time :)

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer.

Sweet! That's great for you firebrick!!!

Must... have... more... details.. ;)

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer. Good stuff. Where have you placed the SubMersive in your room? Nearfield or farfield?

I have largely just loomed in the sub thread for the past 8 months or so keeping to the shadows and trying to learn as I really feel overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge and experience on this board. Based on my research and reading I had sort of come to the conclusion that I was going to get myself a pair of a certain sub. I won't even name it because this isn't about XY sub versus the submersive and it doesn't matter what the sub was. Well as always in life stuff comes up and things get pushed back. I already had a major upgrade in my tv and receiver so unfortunately I am waiting patiently for my subwoofer upgrade to come.

Anyhow I had always kept the submersive in my mind as well and everything I read about it almost makes me want to lean that way. I know for most audiophiles aesthetics usually isn't too high on the list compared to everything else but for me it really is. There is no WAF here it is just me but I have a log cabin house and my home theatre area is just my normal living room and not a dedicated room. For me I absolutely love wood and aesthetics is important to me and I LOVE rosenut speakers and subs. With that being said has Mark ever mentioned if he will have wood veneer in his submersives anytime in the near future? I know he is swamped and a busy guy and gradually growing more and more everyday. I'm sure at some point this is an area he will move into and grow as well but was just curious if it was even remotely close on the horizon. I would love to hear if anyone knows or even if Mark himself could comment on it that would be great

Wood veneer is here! No rosenut, but there are a few choices of stain colors on a cherry veneer. Go to Mark's Seaton Sound Forum to see the pics of the samples.

Wood veneer is here! No rosenut, but there are a few choices of stain colors on a cherry veneer. Go to Mark's Seaton Sound Forum to see the pics of the samples.

Oooh, thank you. I like the look of that blackberry stain. I will be keeping an eye on some of the other future stains that he mentioned as well. This option may very well sway me over to the submersive. This is exciting to me and opens up my options again for more consideration.

I did not spend an inordinate amount of time dialing in my two new SubMersives which arrived yesterday, but I can tell you this: They absolutely kill the dual SVS PC13 Ultras I had and everything else I have owned for sheer impact and bass extension. Watched a bunch of clips (U571, et al) and then watched all of Kung Fu Panda. I can't imagine one of them not bottoming out on some of the Panda scenes but two just was scary. Clean; tight; articulate!! My fiancee (who by her own admission knows zero about audio), was even very, very impressed.

I've still got work to do since there was a bit of "thumpiness" when I played some music videos, but I can say this without reservation: RUN and do not walk to your phone or PC and buy one (or more) of these subs. Forget Velodynes or SVS or MFW or JL Audio or ......

Everyone kept talking about the physical size of this sub. It is considerably smaller than the SVS PB12/Plus 2 that I had. How he gets that much performance out of a box that small is a mystery.

Go order one.

Mark: Great product!!

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!)

I did not spend an inordinate amount of time dialing in my two new SubMersives which arrived yesterday, but I can tell you this: They absolutely kill the dual SVS PC13 Ultras I had and everything else I have owned for sheer impact and bass extension. Watched a bunch of clips (U571, et al) and then watched all of Kung Fu Panda. I can't imagine one of them not bottoming out on some of the Panda scenes but two just was scary. Clean; tight; articulate!! My fiancee (who by her own admission knows zero about audio), was even very, very impressed.

I've still got work to do since there was a bit of "thumpiness" when I played some music videos, but I can say this without reservation: RUN and do not walk to your phone or PC and buy one (or more) of these subs. Forget Velodynes or SVS or MFW or JL Audio or ......

Everyone kept talking about the physical size of this sub. It is considerably smaller than the SVS PB12/Plus 2 that I had. How he gets that much performance out of a box that small is a mystery.

Go order one.

Mark: Great product!!

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!)

Let me give yall a tip i used to move it around. when you take it out of the box, only take off the sides and top, leave the bottow of the cardboard. You can slide that thing around all day long on cardboard.

I think Mark has a private stash of "magic BASS dust". I hear he sprinkles a little in every sub. Glad to hear you like your new subs.

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!)[/QUOTE]

I used a set of the furniture moving disk glides you can get at places like Ace Hardware, Wal-Mart, etc.--multiple sizes available. It made it quite easy to move around till I was in position I wanted and then removed the glides.

Will

I did not spend an inordinate amount of time dialing in my two new SubMersives which arrived yesterday, but I can tell you this: They absolutely kill the dual SVS PC13 Ultras I had and everything else I have owned for sheer impact and bass extension. Watched a bunch of clips (U571, et al) and then watched all of Kung Fu Panda. I can't imagine one of them not bottoming out on some of the Panda scenes but two just was scary. Clean; tight; articulate!! My fiancee (who by her own admission knows zero about audio), was even very, very impressed.

I've still got work to do since there was a bit of "thumpiness" when I played some music videos, but I can say this without reservation: RUN and do not walk to your phone or PC and buy one (or more) of these subs. Forget Velodynes or SVS or MFW or JL Audio or ......

Everyone kept talking about the physical size of this sub. It is considerably smaller than the SVS PB12/Plus 2 that I had. How he gets that much performance out of a box that small is a mystery.

Go order one.

Mark: Great product!!

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!)


I used a set of the furniture moving disk glides you can get at places like Ace Hardware, Wal-Mart, etc.--multiple sizes available. It made it quite easy to move around till I was in position I wanted and then removed the glides.

Will

Thank you very much for posting your impressions audioguy. With a little work I'm sure things will get even more seamless.

On the topic of moving the SubMersives, having moved many similarly heavy and much heavier subwoofers, the feet are sized to allow for easy "walking" of the box. If you have to move well across a room, the feet provide secure locations for sliders/move-alls to stay in place. The feet are tall enough and placed appropriately that you can walk the SubMersive into place without worrying about hitting the corners, while also having enough room to get fingers underneath even on thick carpet when you have 2 people around to lift it. Walking it on the 17.5" dimension is useful for smaller adjustments.

Note I did get a chuckle in hearing about difficulty in moving a subwoofer from someone with those svelt little Dunlavy SC-V's as mains. :p

Enjoy!

PS - 6 more SubMersives were assembled yesterday and will be tested this morning/afternoon.

I did not spend an inordinate amount of time dialing in my two new SubMersives which arrived yesterday, but I can tell you this: They absolutely kill the dual SVS PC13 Ultras I had and everything else I have owned for sheer impact and bass extension. Watched a bunch of clips (U571, et al) and then watched all of Kung Fu Panda. I can't imagine one of them not bottoming out on some of the Panda scenes but two just was scary. Clean; tight; articulate!! My fiancee (who by her own admission knows zero about audio), was even very, very impressed.

I've still got work to do since there was a bit of "thumpiness" when I played some music videos, but I can say this without reservation: RUN and do not walk to your phone or PC and buy one (or more) of these subs. Forget Velodynes or SVS or MFW or JL Audio or ......

Everyone kept talking about the physical size of this sub. It is considerably smaller than the SVS PB12/Plus 2 that I had. How he gets that much performance out of a box that small is a mystery.

Go order one.

Mark: Great product!!

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!) Now I really can't wait till mine ships. :D

By the way, where did you place your SubMersives in the room? Are they placed near or far from your listening position? How far are the SubMersives located from your listening position?

i placed mine directly in the middle of the back wall of my room after doing the "sub crawl" seems to work really well. just watched u-571. all i can say is this is the most dramatic feature of my movie room now, even topping the 120" 2:35 screen since i listen to music as much as watch movies. listened to fleetwood mac rumors dvd audio last night, amazing....

At first pass, they are on the back wall near (but not in) in the back corners. That is where I had my SVS PC13's so wanted to use the same spot for comparison. Next week, I will move them up to the front of the room next to my mains and see what they sound like there. They are about 9 feet from the center listening position where they are now.

Note I did get a chuckle in hearing about difficulty in moving a subwoofer from someone with those svelt little Dunlavy SC-V's as mains. :p

Not a fair comparison;). My mains are on Teflon sliders sitting on hardwood flooring. I did end up walking the subs to move them but am going to add felt sliders to the feet to put them next to my mains for my next try.

Mark, I have sent you a PM

As someone who classifies himself as a "future Submersive owner," I had the opportunity to purchase a used QSC DSP-30 at a pretty good price a couple weeks ago and did so. However, after consulting with everyone on this forum and factoring in my lack of a laptop and "EQ knowledge," I think I may be better off with something like the Anti Mode or another automated EQ. If anyone is interested in a QSC DSP-30, send me a PM.

As someone who classifies himself as a "future Submersive owner," I had the opportunity to purchase a used QSC DSP-30 at a pretty good price a couple weeks ago and did so. However, after consulting with everyone on this forum and factoring in my lack of a laptop and "EQ knowledge," I think I may be better off with something like the Anti Mode or another automated EQ. If anyone is interested in a QSC DSP-30, send me a PM.

Hey Skillet--PM sent... :)

Ok folks, watched my first movie with the submersive. Taken, on bluray. Honestly it is insane. I thought I knew what a sub sounded like with my 15" def tech, but this is a whole new experience. Another satisfied customer.

I know what you mean. I had an old pf15 myself. Really no comparison between the two:D. Glad that you are enjoying it.

powered loudspeakers/subs (catalyst/submersive) - dream ht system done right :cool:

but Mark.. how bout a step further ?

build submersive into the loudspeaker for a more full range (15hz-21khz)

so instead of tri-amplified.. a quad-amplified (1,000W-1,000W-700W-300W) loudspeaker (dual 15" subwoofer/dual 12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter) or (15" subwoofer/12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter)

terraform subs to complete the system

5x quad-amplified loudpeakers/2x-4x terraform subs - at least thats how id build my dream ht system if id have the place for it

powered loudspeakers/subs (catalyst/submersive) - dream ht system done right :cool:

but Mark.. how bout a step further ?

build submersive into the loudspeaker for a more full range (15hz-21khz)

so instead of tri-amplified.. a quad-amplified (1,000W-1,000W-700W-300W) loudspeaker (dual 15" subwoofer/dual 12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter) or (15" subwoofer/12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter)

terraform subs to complete the system

at least thats how id build my dream ht system if id have the place for it

I am sure that he could design/build it no problem....

BUT WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY SHIPPING ON IT:eek:

I am sure that he could design/build it no problem....

BUT WOULD YOU WANT TO PAY SHIPPING ON IT:eek:

I would if I could hear it in a two channel system first!!

In fact, he almost has the product now but it comes in two pieces (Catalyst + SubMersive). If he were to sell/make/create an appropriate crossover (with DSP room correction for the subs) and physically place the Catalyst on top of the SubMersive (lay the submerisive on its side?), you would end up with what may be the very best most reasonably priced full rannge pair of speakers of it's kind.

SubMersive = $2000
Catalyst = $3500
X-Over (?) = $1000 (?)
Extra Cost to veneer both pieces = $500

So $14,000 (all amplification included) for a killer two channel system that would knock the socks off of anything in it's price range!!

Mark: If you decide to do this, I will be your guinea pig!!:)

shipping? doesnt matter as long as it arrives in one piece undamaged

6000$ should cover each loudspeaker but then again im not mark :)

5.1: 5x = 30000$ + 2x-4x terraform subs

powered loudspeakers/subs (catalyst/submersive) - dream ht system done right :cool:

but Mark.. how bout a step further ?

build submersive into the loudspeaker for a more full range (15hz-21khz)

so instead of tri-amplified.. a quad-amplified (1,000W-1,000W-700W-300W) loudspeaker (dual 15" subwoofer/dual 12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter) or (15" subwoofer/12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter)

terraform subs to complete the system

5x quad-amplified loudpeakers/2x-4x terraform subs - at least thats how id build my dream ht system if id have the place for it

You mean like this;):eek:
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=2925522&highlight=studio
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12000666#post12000666

yeh similar/close to the monitors ^

one tower.. sub to tweeter.. fully amplified.. all 5 channels getting the same treatment

I did not spend an inordinate amount of time dialing in my two new SubMersives which arrived yesterday, but I can tell you this: They absolutely kill the dual SVS PC13 Ultras I had and everything else I have owned for sheer impact and bass extension. Watched a bunch of clips (U571, et al) and then watched all of Kung Fu Panda. I can't imagine one of them not bottoming out on some of the Panda scenes but two just was scary. Clean; tight; articulate!! My fiancee (who by her own admission knows zero about audio), was even very, very impressed.

I've still got work to do since there was a bit of "thumpiness" when I played some music videos, but I can say this without reservation: RUN and do not walk to your phone or PC and buy one (or more) of these subs. Forget Velodynes or SVS or MFW or JL Audio or ......

Everyone kept talking about the physical size of this sub. It is considerably smaller than the SVS PB12/Plus 2 that I had. How he gets that much performance out of a box that small is a mystery.

Go order one.

Mark: Great product!!

Only one negative: Those rubber feet make it really difficult for one person to slide these things on carpet!! (but I persevered!!!)

Say audioguy, what size room are you filling, and what speakers are you running with the Submersives ?

Just a quick message that I received my Submersive, installed it in my theater, and am very happy. It is an exceptional sub and a bargain at it's price.

Hey Randy, if you are still in the Kansas City area, would you mind if I come over sometime so I can experience the Submersive? Please PM me.

powered loudspeakers/subs (catalyst/submersive) - dream ht system done right :cool:

but Mark.. how bout a step further ?

build submersive into the loudspeaker for a more full range (15hz-21khz)

so instead of tri-amplified.. a quad-amplified (1,000W-1,000W-700W-300W) loudspeaker (dual 15" subwoofer/dual 12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter) or (15" subwoofer/12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter)

terraform subs to complete the system

5x quad-amplified loudpeakers/2x-4x terraform subs - at least thats how id build my dream ht system if id have the place for it

I wouldn't want that. The best position in the room for the mains and for the subs is rarely in the same place. Powered subwoofers built into the speakers is something that looks good in spec sheets, but is sub optimal in most real rooms.

powered loudspeakers/subs (catalyst/submersive) - dream ht system done right :cool:

but Mark.. how bout a step further ?

build submersive into the loudspeaker for a more full range (15hz-21khz)

so instead of tri-amplified.. a quad-amplified (1,000W-1,000W-700W-300W) loudspeaker (dual 15" subwoofer/dual 12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter) or (15" subwoofer/12"woofer/8" midrange/1" tweeter)

terraform subs to complete the system

5x quad-amplified loudpeakers/2x-4x terraform subs - at least thats how id build my dream ht system if id have the place for it

Hi NapalmV5,

I've certainly considered such a monster, although I had intended an $8-9k amplifier per speaker (10kW total, Lake processing internal). Honestly though, along the lines of what m-fine said, and with a bit more realistic look at the modal realities of a room, I don't see much need or desire to go below 30-35Hz in a main channel speaker other than for the purpose of 2ch playback. The idea and desire for going deeper tends to be more one of "because that would be cool" than for real world benefits. ;)

If you don't plan on dedicating more money than the speakers will cost to room treatments and 8-12" deep on all walls, that sort of effort will more than likely be a bit excessive with limited benefit over Catalysts + more effort in the subwoofer execution (think something like SubMersives + Terraforms).

I would if I could hear it in a two channel system first!!

In fact, he almost has the product now but it comes in two pieces (Catalyst + SubMersive). If he were to sell/make/create an appropriate crossover (with DSP room correction for the subs) and physically place the Catalyst on top of the SubMersive (lay the submerisive on its side?), you would end up with what may be the very best most reasonably priced full rannge pair of speakers of it's kind.

SubMersive = $2000
Catalyst = $3500
X-Over (?) = $1000 (?)
Extra Cost to veneer both pieces = $500

So $14,000 (all amplification included) for a killer two channel system that would knock the socks off of anything in it's price range!!

Mark: If you decide to do this, I will be your guinea pig!!:)

The 2ch option is where a full range speaker makes sense. I would probably still prefer to do it with the subwoofer being a separate enclosure, but after hearing and helping dial in a few Rockport systems ranging from Mira Grands to Arrakis lately, I'm not entirely opposed to a monolithic speaker assembly. I still think back fondly to the couple sets of Statement E2s and even the old Audio Artistry systems I set up when I slaved for a boutique store way back when...

Of course there are many higher priority projects on the plate right now, but the recession has afforded me some help from old (out of work) friends who I couldn't usually afford to pay enough. With opportune timing, we'll see how quickly things progress in the coming months. :)

Of course there are many higher priority projects on the plate right now, but the recession has afforded me some help from old (out of work) friends who I couldn't usually afford to pay enough. With opportune timing, we'll see how quickly things progress in the coming months. :)

Good to hear. I always wondered how you managed to do everything by yourself. Mark, are you going to put together a demo room to showcase all of your products? Not right now, but in the not to distant future?

IMO the SQ advantages of having a full-range speaker outweighs the placement issues

having the bass seamlessly blended to the mid-range by the manufacturer where they can pick the drivers and custom tailor the crossovers. no phase or timing issues to deal with. that whole seamless blend is incredible. you can still let the end user adjust the amp level in the sub to compensate for room loading because every room is different

get the room acoustics right and a little EQ and you shouldn't run into any major placement issues. just the fact that you're using dual subs right off the bat helps in the smoothing of frequencies

even just moving that crossover point down from 80hz to 40hz and using a speaker flat to 30hz offers better SQ IMO

i think the weak link in sub/sat systems is the crossover. most people use a receiver with a "one size fits all" crossover slope and that's supposed to match up every speaker ever made with every subwoofer ever made

I actually like to two box/modular approach. There are lots of large speakers (Wilson x2,Wilson Maxx, et al) that come in two pieces. It gives the flexibility to have the sub in a different spot if desired or include some kind of framed attachment that would go on the SubMersive into which the other piece (Catlayt?) would fit and have the crossover built into one or the other piece. If I'm willing to spend the $, I can have (almost) that speaker today buy utilizing something like the Bryston crossover.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

I actually like to two box/modular approach. There are lots of large speakers (Wilson x2,Wilson Maxx, et al) that come in two pieces. It gives the flexibility to have the sub in a different spot if desired

nothing wrong with box/modular. but they are still considered "full range systems" designed to be seamless from head to toe

i've never seen wilson's "broken up" like that but i guess it's possible to do it if you wanted to

i think the wilson's come in 2 pieces for ease of shipping and handling more than anything :)

i think the wilson's come in 2 pieces for ease of shipping and handling more than anything :)

Correct

i think the wilson's come in 2 pieces for ease of shipping and handling more than anything :)

I think most people who buy Wilsons pay someone else to do the handling and don't care about how easy it is ;)

ok, this kind of a silly question, but I'm going to be upgrading my Paradigm PW-2100 sub to a submersive within the next year or so. How many PW-2100s' would it take to equal the submersive. I know you probably want to say like a hundred, but seriously, what do you think? six, seven?

ok, this kind of a silly question, but I'm going to be upgrading my Paradigm PW-2100 sub to a submersive within the next year or so. How many PW-2100s' would it take to equal the submersive. I know you probably want to say like a hundred, but seriously, what do you think? six, seven?

I have a calculator on my desk.......the answer is 13 and 1/3

ok, this kind of a silly question, but I'm going to be upgrading my Paradigm PW-2100 sub to a submersive within the next year or so. How many PW-2100s' would it take to equal the submersive. I know you probably want to say like a hundred, but seriously, what do you think? six, seven?

Well, just a guess would be, a few:p. Seriously though that paradigm sub is probabably not too bad. But the SubMersive would be in a whole other catagory. That paradigm has a 10in driver. The SubMersive has two 15in
drivers. That Paradigm says that it has a 500rms and 1500 peak watts class D amp. The SubMersive has a 1000 watt ICE amp. That paradigm says that it's low frequency of 23Hz. The SubMersive will go much much lower then that in just about any room. Not to mention the overall output should be quite a bit more. There is just no way, no matter how well designed, that a sub with a 10in driver can keep up with a sub that has dual 15's. No matter how many you add, you would not get the low end exstention that the SubMersive has. If you had maybe 2 or three of the paradigm it might try and get close to the upper range level. I don't know the output on that sub. I can tell you that when compared to my previous sub, which was had a 13.13in driver, was ported and had about 400 watts, it was no contest. The SubMersive sounded better, IMHO. But what is not my opinion, but is a measurable fact is that it plays much louder and goes much lower. In fact, again IMHO, the only sub that I have heard that can come close to the SubMersive is the JM Labs Sub Utopia Be. That had 1000 watts and a 16in driver and was ported and cost $6000. Again, IMHO. I guess this is a long winded way of saying that I don't think you would be disapointed with the SubMersive and it would take a few 2100's to try and match it.

Submersive owners with only one Submersive, how big is the room the subwoofer is filling and how satisfied are you with just one?

My Room is about 2700 square feet and I am using a single MFW-15 from av123, the MFW-15 is enough but I cannot run it hot +7db or so. Though I have not tried it, I am pretty certain it would be pointless to try.

What is drawing me to the Submersive is the small sealed enclosure. Obviously the amplifier on the Submersive is VERY, VERY STOUT given the small sealed box and the high SPL capabilities.

2 questions:
What is the unboxed weight of the Submersive?
What is the warranty? ( Mark told me this awhile back but I forgot.)

I am wanting the type of bass that knocks pictures off the wall and neighbors 2 houses down can feel in a certain spot in their house.

The best subwoofer I ever had was a DIY, I used 2 15" drivers in a 6' tall cabinet I made that was 2 ply Baltic Birch and very heavily braced, it had 2 8" PCV ports. Not that this means a whole lot because there are alot of factors that can change the numbers but I measured it at 20Hz in my living room at over 130db.
That was a fun subwoofer.

BTW I would build my own but I was in a bad motorcycle accident in 2006 , brain injuries suck. I will never be able to return to my profession as an auto mechanic , however I won a lot of money in a lawsuit so my life is not as bad as it could have been if I did not win.

BTW I have always loved bass but I had a love for speed as well , on my wreck day I was on an 06' Suzuki GSX-R1000 , before that bike I had a Suzuki Hayabusa.
Both of those bikes were dynoed at ~155 RWHP. :D

I'm wondering about something. The above post comparing the Submersive to the Paradigm made a lot of sense, spec-wise. In that vein, however, why wouldn't a pair of eD A7S-450s be comparable to the Submersive? They are sealed, would cost less, have two 18" drivers instead of two 15" drivers, have two 1300 watt ICE amps instead of one 1000watt amp, and have the option of being co-located or separated for room issues. Not trying to bash the Submersive, as I'm sure it's a great sub, but the twin 18" subs seem like a better deal at first glance.

My guess is that output wise, they are probably very close, maybe the ED's have the advantage if stacked together by a couple db's but were I think the Submersive would have the advantage is in the SQ department.

I also happened to see the submersive frequency response graph and is only down by 7 db's or so by 20hz. Most sealed subs would be down by 12 db's or so by 20hz, why is that? Is there some eq. involved?

Also, I happen to be in DIY. I will get in the next few days a Acoustic Elagance 15X sub with great SQ (currently one of the best DIY subs out there) with two PR18-2100, in a 7cf (internal) box with a ED LT1300 plate amp. Running the models, it's tuned to 16hz, gives me 114.6 db's at 20hz and 121 db's at 100hz (one meter outdoors), down similar to the submersive (7 db's by 20hz). I wonder how this sub would compare to the submersive in output and SQ. Anyways, if I wasn't in DIY, the submersive would be my choice for the money.

Submersive owners with only one Submersive, how big is the room the subwoofer is filling and how satisfied are you with just one?

My Room is about 2700 square feet and I am using a single MFW-15 from av123, the MFW-15 is enough but I cannot run it hot +7db or so. Though I have not tried it, I am pretty certain it would be pointless to try.

2 questions:
What is the unboxed weight of the Submersive?
What is the warranty? ( Mark told me this awhile back but I forgot.)

I am wanting the type of bass that knocks pictures off the wall and neighbors 2 houses down can feel in a certain spot in their house.

My room is off the top of my head 2300ft^3 and I am running a single submersive the 2nd prototype to be exact. I am very satisfied, it will out power the mains any time I want it( PSB 5T's) so no slouch on spl out of them. long before I would get a 2nd submersive, I would be getting new mains( working on getting a trio of sparks). Anyone who has been over canot believe the bass that I get out of my room.

As far as weight I was just looking over at marks forum and cant find it. About 100# is my guess and I have moved about 7 or 8 of them at least( both into and out of rooms for GTG's) They are actually pretty easy to move due to the size and feet on the bottom.

I'm wondering about something. The above post comparing the Submersive to the Paradigm made a lot of sense, spec-wise. In that vein, however, why wouldn't a pair of eD A7S-450s be comparable to the Submersive? They are sealed, would cost less, have two 18" drivers instead of two 15" drivers, have two 1300 watt ICE amps instead of one 1000watt amp, and have the option of being co-located or separated for room issues. Not trying to bash the Submersive, as I'm sure it's a great sub, but the twin 18" subs seem like a better deal at first glance.

Can the A7S-450 dig as deep as the Submersive ?

Can the A7S-450 dig as deep as the Submersive ?


Tough to say, sealed subs with high power amps can often be eq'd for deep response. I haven't seen any graphs on the subs, but that certainly could be a difference.

Tough to say, sealed subs with high power amps can often be eq'd for deep response. I haven't seen any graphs on the subs, but that certainly could be a difference.

Yeah , I see ED offers an EQ for a little extra with those subwoofers. From what I gather , the amp in the Submersive is very expensive .
Any subwoofer can benefit from an EQ but some subwoofers need an EQ.
I am pretty sure the Submersive absolutely does not need an EQ.

Any subwoofer can benefit from an EQ but some subwoofers need an EQ. I am pretty sure the Submersive absolutely does not need an EQ.

I'm pretty confident that Mark has some EQ going on IN these subs. But 99.999% of all users will need some EQ in their room to make the subs sound the best.

Yeah , I see ED offers an EQ for a little extra with those subwoofers. From what I gather , the amp in the Submersive is very expensive .
Any subwoofer can benefit from an EQ but some subwoofers need an EQ.
I am pretty sure the Submersive absolutely does not need an EQ.

That would depend on the room. The Submersive has a typical sealed sub 12db/octave rolloff. If it's in an open room that doesn't exhibit a lot of room gain down deep, then the deep bass response is going to be rolled off if there is no eq boost to flatten it.

Submersive owners with only one Submersive, how big is the room the subwoofer is filling and how satisfied are you with just one?

My Room is about 2700 square feet and I am using a single MFW-15 from av123, the MFW-15 is enough but I cannot run it hot +7db or so. Though I have not tried it, I am pretty certain it would be pointless to try.

What is drawing me to the Submersive is the small sealed enclosure. Obviously the amplifier on the Submersive is VERY, VERY STOUT given the small sealed box and the high SPL capabilities.

2 questions:
What is the unboxed weight of the Submersive?
What is the warranty? ( Mark told me this awhile back but I forgot.)

I am wanting the type of bass that knocks pictures off the wall and neighbors 2 houses down can feel in a certain spot in their house.

The best subwoofer I ever had was a DIY, I used 2 15" drivers in a 6' tall cabinet I made that was 2 ply Baltic Birch and very heavily braced, it had 2 8" PCV ports. Not that this means a whole lot because there are alot of factors that can change the numbers but I measured it at 20Hz in my living room at over 130db.
That was a fun subwoofer.

I have a single SubMersive in a 1000cf. It is quite fun I can tell you:). I am pretty sure that the sub is somewhere between 110-120lbs unboxed. But that did not stop Mark from pushing the box up my stairs. And I am extremely satisfied with one. You said 2700sq feet. I hope you meant 2700cf. Because other wise with an 8ft ceiling you are talking about 21,600cf:eek:. There are people that have singles in rooms that are larger then 2700cf and I think, and they have reported being happy as well. In a 2700cf room you should have a pretty big grin on your face.
This is what Mark has posted about the warranty
"Warranty is 3 years from time of receipt of the subwoofer. The Warranty covers any defects in materials and workmanship, excluding obvious misuse or accidental damage."

Don't know if you guys already knew this, but I was talking to Mark a few days ago and the new finishes are out for the Submersive. I live in Canada, so if the new finishes are available to us, they would definitely be available to those in the the U.S. I quoted some prices on the finishes, and they are as follows, Black Oak $100.00, and what mark calls "clear cherry", and "clear Oak" which probably means that they have a glossy finish, are both an additional $300.00. Keep in mind these were the Canadian prices, so they may vary. Cant wait to see some pics of these finishes. Hint, hint Mark.:D

My guess is that output wise, they are probably very close, maybe the ED's have the advantage if stacked together by a couple db's but were I think the Submersive would have the advantage is in the SQ department.

I also happened to see the submersive frequency response graph and is only down by 7 db's or so by 20hz. Most sealed subs would be down by 12 db's or so by 20hz, why is that? Is there some eq. involved?

Also, I happen to be in DIY. I will get in the next few days a Acoustic Elagance 15X sub with great SQ (currently one of the best DIY subs out there) with two PR18-2100, in a 7cf (internal) box with a ED LT1300 plate amp. Running the models, it's tuned to 16hz, gives me 114.6 db's at 20hz and 121 db's at 100hz (one meter outdoors), down similar to the submersive (7 db's by 20hz). I wonder how this sub would compare to the submersive in output and SQ. Anyways, if I wasn't in DIY, the submersive would be my choice for the money.

I've noticed the same difference in frequency response. Other sealed subs seem to roll off much faster. This is one reason I feel a single Submersive may do well even in larger rooms. It has less roll to begin with and because of how well it behaves towards its upper limits you may be able to add more EQ than you could on another sub. Even if the Submersive is overdriven it doesn't seem like it will get damaged and at lower listening levels the benefit of the extra EQ could increase usable output at the lower frequencies.

People may need to dig on Marks site, but if I not mistaken, there are people with singles in rooms that are something like 4500cf and over.

Don't know if you guys already knew this, but I was talking to Mark a few days ago and the new finishes are out for the Submersive. I live in Canada, so if the new finishes are available to us, they would definitely be available to those in the the U.S. I quoted some prices on the finishes, and they are as follows, Black Oak $100.00, and what mark calls "clear cherry", and "clear Oak" which probably means that they have a glossy finish, are both an additional $300.00. Keep in mind these were the Canadian prices, so they may vary. Cant wait to see some pics of these finishes. Hint, hint Mark.:D

Hi Devin',

Actually the clear finishes are just the natural wood color as they have a clear coating which is available on Cherry or Maple. They are not glossy, as was seen in the pictures from Itai's meet (that was a clear cherry). The higher pricing you mentioned was for the Cherry wood veneer in different stain options. Currently available options are red cherry and espresso. We've been working on some more options as I'd like to have a more medium brown to offer as well. These options are posted on my forum.

I'll try to post a crude pic or two of a Black Oak SubMersive on my forum today, but we'll have pretty pictures of more options next week.

It's Mark's birthday today. Happy birthday! :)

Happy Birthday Mark!!

Thanks for clearing that up mark I knew I had described something wrong there:confused:, my apologies, can't wait to see those pics!, Oh, BTW is there a possibility of a gloss black finish some time in the future?

Happy B-Day :)

Can the A7S-450 dig as deep as the Submersive ?

Tough to say, sealed subs with high power amps can often be eq'd for deep response. I haven't seen any graphs on the subs, but that certainly could be a difference.

ED has posted that they use their standard amplifiers in all their subwoofers, which have no high pass and no EQ. The good news is that leaves the 12dB/oct roll off in tact. The bad news is that the response is whatever the drivers do in the box. It's no surprise they will sound quite punchy as they roll off quite prematurely. Output capability and gain in the room will make them plenty useful down low, but getting the response to what you are after is left to you. There is also lot of attention in the SubMersive to what happens when you tease the limits and to giving you a smooth power delivery into the room through both frequency extremes. The SubMersive also has two 3" voice coils vs. a single 2.5" to utilize the power without compression.

Long story short... If you set the two next to each other expect them to sound rather different, and it would take a good deal of careful measuring and EQ to bring them closer in behavior, but they'll still be different.

Hi everyone,

What subwoofer cables is everyone using for their submersive?

I was interested in the chord chrimson but i now want QED Reference Subwoofer Cable

http://www.qed.co.uk/115/gb/product/.../subwoofer.htm

Any advice? This one is also to you mark


I can get Ultra Links Advanced Performance Series SUBSONIX® POWERED SUBWOOFER CABLE at cost this is another option i have.

http://www.ultralinkcables.com/#/products/advanced__performance/

Happy birthday mark ;)

I have to say sorry to brought this up in advance..
I shall urge Mark to seriously consider establish a client department or something for Seaton sound,
for I have noticed you apparently have increasing demand but not having fast enough customer communication system.
It's been at least a week's waiting for me to get another reply.. hope I'm not the only one :(

Hi everyone,

What subwoofer cables is everyone using for their submersive?

I was interested in the chord chrimson but i now want QED Reference Subwoofer

http://www.qed.co.uk/115/gb/product/.../subwoofer.htm

Any advice? This one is also to you mark


I can get Ultra Links Advanced Performance Series SUBSONIX® POWERED SUBWOOFER CABLE at cost this is another option i have.
That is probably fine. I use an older Transparent Audio sub cable.

Don't know if you guys already knew this, but I was talking to Mark a few days ago and the new finishes are out for the Submersive. I live in Canada, so if the new finishes are available to us, they would definitely be available to those in the the U.S. I quoted some prices on the finishes, and they are as follows, Black Oak $100.00, and what mark calls "clear cherry", and "clear Oak" which probably means that they have a glossy finish, are both an additional $300.00. Keep in mind these were the Canadian prices, so they may vary. Cant wait to see some pics of these finishes. Hint, hint Mark.:D

Hey Devin1886

There is a guy who lives in hamilton who has a submersive. I am going nextweekend to listen to it. If you live in ontario its a great chance to experience it first hand.

Hi everyone,
What subwoofer cables is everyone using for their submersive?


15' Monster Cable (hiss boo, yes i know but it's what I had lying around) to Mark's packaged unbalanced->balanced converter. I would probably go to a Monoprice or Markertek SW cable if I replaced it, though if I had to go higher distances then I would likley seek out a better built cable (Blue Jeans for instance).

Yeah I just ordered a sub cable from monoprice...really good price. Blue Jeans Cable has a nicer just more expensive of course, that I would like to try later possibly. Anyone else using one from monoprice?

Yeah I just ordered a sub cable from monoprice...really good price. Blue Jeans Cable has a nicer just more expensive of course, that I would like to try later possibly. Anyone else using one from monoprice?

I ordered a 10' and a 25' balanced cords last week. The submersive isn't scheduled to ship until the 17th. I ordered both lengths in case it ends up in the opposing corner from where my MK350X is now. I think cables are way over rated. Monoprice is a Monster Killer. ;)

I have to say sorry to brought this up in advance..
I shall urge Mark to seriously consider establish a client department or something for Seaton sound,
for I have noticed you apparently have increasing demand but not having fast enough customer communication system.
It's been at least a week's waiting for me to get another reply.. hope I'm not the only one :(

Hi ken,

I've brought on some help this week and have 8 SubMersives and 10 Sparks which have already or will ship this week. I have had to spend a lot of time bringing others up to speed on things, so haven't kept up with e-mail as well as I would like this week. Having to get the specific shipping quotes overseas currently requires getting through on the phone to get the most competitive quotes and has been a bit slow lately.

I am behind on some inquiries, but more parts are on their way as we ship out to those patiently waiting. There is also a bit of work to go through in ramping up the veneer production as we get the new build house comfortable with what we need.

I'll finally have a couple seek peeks at the black oak posted on my forum this afternoon, and nicer photos next week and from the GTG this weekend.

Sorry again for the tardy response. I'll have answers for you and a few others similarly waiting this week.

I want to check out a submersive. Any one in the Cleveland Ohio area willing to demo?

I want to check out a submersive. Any one in the Cleveland Ohio area willing to demo?

uh oh :D

Mark, glad to hear from you!

As I mentioned in email there were other friends here expressed interest due to the impressive reviews here in avs.
Afterall the complications of ordering this beast overseas are the main concern,
and I/we appreciate the effort and hope for the best.
I do wish the waiting process could be shorter but I guess it's the side effect of business growth.
Thank you for all the trouble.

Look what I found:p
This would be the black oak finish
http://home.comcast.net/~mark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-14-blk.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~mark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-15-blk.jpg

Guys Fedex just showed up with my mini fridge!!:D Who can drive over to help me unpack this thing? I'm taking pictures as I unpack. Everything arrived in perfect shape. Cant wait to get this thing hooked up. Thanks again Mark!

that black oak is beautiful.

I want to check out a submersive. Any one in the Cleveland Ohio area willing to demo?

while not next door, I am located in the metro detroit area its under 3hrs

That looks fantastic! ^^^^

Just found out I passed my nursing boards today! Interviews to follow, then paychecks... then black oak =D

People may need to dig on Marks site, but if I not mistaken, there are people with singles in rooms that are something like 4500cf and over.

I've done the digging but my space is 7000 cu ft and I haven't found anyone else with a room this large and only a single Submersive.

Happy Birthday Señor Seaton!! Wishing you many more years of providing audio heaven for people around the world;)

uh oh :D

Busted!

while not next door, I am located in the metro detroit area its under 3hrs

Thanks Kevin. I know George (geocab) said the submersive flat out rocks. I may take you up if I can find the time. If so, I'll pm you Thanks, Greg

I've done the digging but my space is 7000 cu ft and I haven't found anyone else with a room this large and only a single Submersive.

You would be the largest. But there is someone who has a single in a 6000cf. He seems very happy with it. I don't want to cross link marks forum here.
If you go to his forum and search for the user n737nc you will find some threads by him.
The one that has some of the best info is called "Well, now I am Sub-Less"
Read through that one. Now granted your room is bigger but I never got the idea that it was straining in his room. 7000cf is big no doubt. You may be the first person to put this sub to the test.

Im speechless wow!!!!! the black oak finish matches my Monitor Audio RS8's perfect. I am drooling

Mark if i order by the end of the month when would i get it by?

I like the blackberry stain the best

I like the blackberry stain the best

I like the watermelon stain the best, so I ordered 2 of them this morning.

Im speechless wow!!!!! the black oak finish matches my Monitor Audio RS8's perfect. I am drooling

Mark if i order by the end of the month when would i get it by?

It's very nice to hear that you and many others are as happy with the black oak finish as I am. :) Lead times will vary with the number of incoming orders, but for the near future I don't see lead times being more than 3 weeks on veneered SubMersives, especially with some additional help getting up to speed now.

Mark , what do you think of that new SVS AS-EQ1 ?

wow!:eek:nice finish. I need a divorce. lol

I don't think Mark would mind too much:p
That would be natural cherry
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-01-Nchry.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-03-Nchry.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-04-Nchry.jpg

Just found out I passed my nursing boards today! Interviews to follow, then paychecks... then black oak =D

Congrats. Nothing like the satisfaction of passing the NCLEX. I still shiver when I think of mine. That black oak sure looks awesome.

I don't think Mark would mind too much:p
That would be natural cherry
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-01-Nchry.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-03-Nchry.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emark_seaton/public-pictures/SubMersive/SM215-veneer-04-Nchry.jpgi know this question probally has been asked a 1000 times can this sub be laied on its side with the amp facing down?

i know this question probally has been asked a 1000 times can this sub be laied on its side with the amp facing down?

I will bet you that you are the first to ask that question.

i don't think mark would mind too much:p
that would be natural cherry



sweet!

I'd imagine it could be placed with the amp facing down if fairly high feet are used to raise the sub up to allow for clearance for cooling as well as for the controls and cables.

I'd imagine it could be placed with the amp facing down if fairly high feet are used to raise the sub up to allow for clearance for cooling as well as for the controls and cables.i was thinking of puting it on a vibration stand

If you put it on the vibration stand, what's from keeping the controls and cables from getting crushed? You would need to put your own feet on the vibration stand then the sub on top of that. I guess putting it amp side up is out of the question becasue of the look of the cables being exposed?

i was thinking of puting it on a vibration stand

The SubMersive does not vibrate. Seriously, like not at all.

can you run the submersive using a single sub cable?

ARE XLR cables better for than regular subwoofer cables? i need to know so i can order a good onefo rmy submersive when i order it in 2weeks

can you run the submersive using a single sub cable?

As opposed to :confused:

ARE XLR cables better for than regular subwoofer cables? i need to know so i can order a good onefo rmy submersive when i order it in 2weeks

I posted a response already on my forum, but to confirm for those reading here, if you have an XLR connection available, it is preferred. XLR connections are in fact the only connector on the SubMersive. The SubMersive ships with an adapter to allow quick connection or for connection where RCA cables are already installed and are the easier or only option. There is nothing wrong with using an RCA connection to the adapter, it is just preferred to use an XLR cable if available.

I use the Premium Canare cables sold under the TecNec house brand of Markertek.com. If you threaded the cable through some woven-jacket tech-flex, many audio companies would charge 4-10 times what Markertek does ($27.50 for a 25' cable).

can you run the submersive using a single sub cable?

There is only one input on the SubMersive. There is both a female (input) and male (looping) connector which are in parallel (you can actually connect to either if needed) to allow throughput to another subwoofer.

Mark...... looking good with the premium finishes.... its nice to see how far they have come.... that should really bring some new sales to the plate here....

great work buddy..... congrats....

can you run the submersive using a single sub cable?whats a sub cable? to my knowledge there is no such thing. quad shelided coax is the next best thing to XLR cable. but i think the submersive only takes XLR.

i know this question probally has been asked a 1000 times can this sub be laied on its side with the amp facing down?

Theoretically you could, but what would you do with the cables?

Mark...... looking good with the premium finishes.... its nice to see how far they have come.... that should really bring some new sales to the plate here....

great work buddy..... congrats....

No doubt. For me, it really wasn't an issue. I knew that I had a very early model and that the finish was a bit spartan:p. But that did not bother me. My room is small and dedicated. These new finishes will allow people who require something that looks nice to get a submersive and keep it visible.

whats a sub cable? to my knowledge there is no such thing. quad shelided coax is the next best thing to XLR cable. but i think the submersive only takes XLR.

yah I'm kind of a newbie. Iv'e just been calling it a "sub cable" what I meant was an RCA type cable that runs from your receiver to the sub. Not sure if there is a specific name for it, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

yah I'm kind of a newbie. Iv'e just been calling it a "sub cable" what I meant was an RCA type cable that runs from your receiver to the sub. Not sure if there is a specific name for it, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

You are fine. That is what I figured you meant. I believe that you will get an adapter that you can use to connect the sub to a receiver if need be.

so that adapter shouldn't take anything away from the sub itself, (SQ or output)?

so that adapter shouldn't take anything away from the sub itself, (SQ or output)?

XLR's are said to have a 6db boost in output. If you calibrate your sub with your receiver or preamp all that means is the gain on the sub or in the processor would have to be turned up a bit more if you use single ended connections. That's all. Some people think that there is a slight improvement in SQ. This is more true if the XLR is "truly" balanced. Balanced are good for really long runs of cables. Now, on a personal note, all of my connections from my amps and cd player are balanced. I have never used a rca to XLR adapter so I don't know
if it would make that much of a difference. My guess would be the SQ would still be very high and the output would be very high as well. Mark does not seem like the kind of guy who would have his sub perform less then optimal because someone has to use an adapter.

Thanks for the info mike, much appreciated.

cool now i know

No prob :)

Wishing I was in San Francisco... ;) Hearing Mark's 4 SubMersives at Fugueness's GTG will be something that might set off fault-lines! :eek: I'd be willing to risk it if I weren't so far away.

Any recent SubMersive owners out there with pics/reviews to share?

Man, on the very day Mark was set to ship my textured black Submersive out last week I did the hard thing of letting someone else have it and got in the que for that new gorgeous black oak box!

Good timing for getting the premium finish, but bad timing for getting the sub... :D My wife tells me that this kind of experience will build my character and also make me appreciate it more... Hummnnn... where have I heard that line before...

So, let's hear from some SubMersive newbies, eh?! You all remember how it was to be waiting--throw us a bone or two. ;)

Ok people, I have sort of a small group of questions here for people to help me out on. I spend as much time on this sub forum as I can and I consider myself a decent learner but some of this audio stuff I am just having trouble grasping. The knowledge here on this forum is incredible so if someone would shed some light on a few things I would really be grateful. First off does anyone have a good picture of the back of a submersive? I have seen a few posts where people say it only has the XLR connections on it. Is this the 3 pin type? To be truthful I know nothing of XLR and read about it on wikipedia. I realize people said there was an adapter but if I wanted to use the XLR I am sort of confused. I have a brand new AVR. Not a flagship AVR but still decent. I have a Yamaha RX-V3900. The only way I knew of doing the sub was with an RCA cable through the sub pre-out. I don't have any of these XLR connections. Is this something that is only on an independent EQ or something? As far as I knew even like the AS-EQ1 didn't have XLR connections (to many peoples dismay) so how would one go about hooking this up? How do you get the signal from your AVR to your sub?

To add a little more on this confusion of mine if the R part of XLR is a return line what would that be for? Why would a signal need to return from the sub? or am I completely looking at this wrong. Every time I feel I take one step forward I seem to get hit with something that makes me feel as if I am 3 steps behind.

Also when I inquired about wood veener (good job Mark!) someone told me to check out his site and I did. I saw the picture of the blackberry stain (drool) and there was a clickable link in red under the submersive section. That clickable link is no longer there and it says it was last updated march of this year. Did it get taken down or moved or something? because I can't seem to access the new information about the wood veneer and the upcoming stains.

Lastly, this isn't so much a direct question but my speakers are mostly older, like 15 year old Paradigms and while I would love a new setup the reality is I can't afford to do it all, and in fact I need to save up just to get the submersives. Would having 2 outstanding top of the line subs be ok for now considering my speakers are older and were pretty basic speakers even when I bought them. Would it makes more sense to have decent speakers before getting great subs? Now lastly, for real this time. The whole process of level matching and setting subs and getting them EQ'd intimidates me. I am trying so hard to learn but just feel like I am getting no where. Would a common guy like me actually be able to get his subs to perform somewhat how they should with pretty much zero tweaking exeprience and being somewhat lost on this stuff.

I want the great performance I just feel I am in over my head knowledge wise. With so many things having such a dramatic impact on sub performance all based on room size, layout. furniture arrangement, nulls, peaks, and everything else I just am basically looking for someone to tell me it will be ok lol, that they can help me get through it no matter how stupid my questions are. In the future when I get close to actually being a submersive owner I will probably just convert my posts over to Marks forum and hopefully some of you fellow home theatre enthusiasts will have the patience to help me out. I'm willing to learn, try things, and even buy some testing equipment and do it to the best of my ability as long as I have some guidance. Thank you anyone who replies and thanks for your time.

Uni_panther,

Mark sends you an XLR to RCA adapter to allow people with only RCA connections to use their submersive with their current receivers/prepros. So you don't have to worry about that.

I would suggest going through the Audio Theory forums. There are excellent tutorials there to help anyone who finds setup intimidating get through it easily. I would suggest getting an SPL meter. Not a really expensive one though. Most AVSers use a Radio Shack SPL meter and I think they are around $40-$50(I'm Canadian and I'm not sure about what they cost in the US). The process is not very difficult and once you start tweaking your system, you may not be able to stop;)

uni_panther -- If you get a SPL meter from Radio Shack, be sure to get the Analog one (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668 -- SKU #33-4050). Not only is it $5 cheaper than the digital version, it's also easier to use (your eyeball is better at averaging the needle swings than the electronic averaging used in the digital model -- SKU #33-2055). I have a friend that has the digital version, and I found that my analog model was a whole lot easier to use in trying to set up his system.

The audio correction tables for that meter are discussed here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=505236. These tables correct for the low frequency roll-off in its measurements. A lot of measurement software has these corrections built in.

The "Setup Your Home Theater 101" thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554) has lots of good links and discussion on how to set up your speakers (one of the threads that Dbuudo07 referred to). Note that for measuring audio levels at your listening position, the meter should be aimed at the ceiling (tripod mounting is preferred -- the RS SPL meter has a tripod threaded insert just for that purpose).

There is nothing wrong with "old" speakers, if they are well designed ones. My L/R mains (semi-pro models) are over 30 years old and can't be matched by any of the newer models for performance vs size. I had to have their woofers re-coned, professionally, for about $250 for both (the woofer surrounds had deteriorated while they were being stored). There are some excellent speakers that were designed in the 1950's and 1960's, which are still in professional (and home) use today.

Uni_Panther,

The whole idea with XLR cables is to avoid ground loops and hum, interference essentially. Don't worry about it. Mark provides the correct adapter in order to use your RCA sub pre-out. I suppose the only way this might be a problem is if you were running a very, very long cheap RCA cable to the adapter which might pick up noise. In this case you could just buy a long XLR cable from Markertek with a short RCA to XLR adapter. This is what I have done per Mark's suggestion for the Catalysts and Sparks.

If you are on a budget perhaps you don't need 2 SubMersives? It all depends on your room size. There are people with 5000 cf rooms running 1 SubMersive who are perfectly happy. If 1 would do for your room you could always use the extra 2K towards a set of Sparks to replace your Paradigms. The Sparks are on sale right now too. ;)

Thanks CT_Wiebe. Forgot to mention the analog part. I don't like the digital ones either.

I got a few quick questions.....
Does the Submersive drivers have cast or stamped baskets ?
Does anyone know what the linear excursion peak (x-max) is on
the drivers ?
In fact id not mind seeing the full driver specs if anyone has em.

thanks

If you are on a budget perhaps you don't need 2 SubMersives? It all depends on your room size. There are people with 5000 cf rooms running 1 SubMersive who are perfectly happy. If 1 would do for your room you could always use the extra 2K towards a set of Sparks to replace your Paradigms. The Sparks are on sale right now too. ;)

Hey Hudda--any cool movies/music that the SubMersive has you grinning about that you wouldn't mind sharing? I'm hungry for details to keep my wait from killing me... :D

BTW, Uni_Panther, be encouraged that through the forums you'll get great help. Mark Seaton is a legend even at his tender age ;) and if you get Seaton Sound products you are going to be in incredibly capable hands for tech help!

I'm sorry if this has been answered but is there a Submersive in a cherry finish? If so, a pic would be great. Thanks.

DOH! Nevermind. Just saw the pic. Is there a version with a darker cherry finish that is similar to the cherry finish on the MFW-15's?

Uni_Panther,

The whole idea with XLR cables is to avoid ground loops and hum, interference essentially. Don't worry about it. Mark provides the correct adapter in order to use your RCA sub pre-out. I suppose the only way this might be a problem is if you were running a very, very long cheap RCA cable to the adapter which might pick up noise. In this case you could just buy a long XLR cable from Markertek with a short RCA to XLR adapter. This is what I have done per Mark's suggestion for the Catalysts and Sparks.

If you are on a budget perhaps you don't need 2 SubMersives? It all depends on your room size. There are people with 5000 cf rooms running 1 SubMersive who are perfectly happy. If 1 would do for your room you could always use the extra 2K towards a set of Sparks to replace your Paradigms. The Sparks are on sale right now too. ;)

I might not truly need 2 submersives but I am right on that size of 5000cf. It comes out to like real close to 4900cf however this room is just my living room. It is not sealed and it completely open to the kitchen and there is 2 different hallways and another large opening at the back of the living room. It is a very open room with a large vaulted ceiling. I may not have the actual working sub knowledge of the people on the forum but I know enough to realize I made a major mistake the first time and I am way under subbed. So while I could probably get by with one submersive, I know with 2 without a doubt I shouldn't have to worry about an upgrade in that area for quite some time. I like the idea of having the duals. I won't find myself under subbed again. Sure under subbed compared to many of the setups I have seen here in the picture thread, but not under subbed for my room and my setup.

As for the sparks, this is not to start a debate or any slight what so ever on the sparks, but when it comes to speakers I am just a Paradigm guy. Yes they are pricey but this is the one area where I will pay the money. I just love the sound of Paradigm speakers and have for a long time. The new aesthetics on the studio series v5 are just mouth watering to me. Back to the XLR connections I'm not worried about being able to hook them up and I have decent cables I have gotten from bluejeans but I guess my primary question was for the people that are using nothing but XLR connections is this something that they have running straight off of their AVR? Not that I look at tons and tons of them but I don't ever remember seeing them on an AVR, at least in the Yamahas I have looked at over the years.

I got a few quick questions.....
Does the Submersive drivers have cast or stamped baskets ?
Does anyone know what the linear excursion peak (x-max) is on
the drivers ?
In fact id not mind seeing the full driver specs if anyone has em.

thanksDoes the answer to any of these questions lessen or improve the performance of the Submersive? :confused:

Since the answer to my question is No, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for answers to your questions.

XLR's are said to have a 6db boost in output. If you calibrate your sub with your receiver or preamp all that means is the gain on the sub or in the processor would have to be turned up a bit more if you use single ended connections. That's all. Some people think that there is a slight improvement in SQ. This is more true if the XLR is "truly" balanced.

The gain has nothing to do with the XLR connector and EVERYTHING to do with a balanced connection-and that assumes a true driven balanced connection and not an impedance balanced connection. That could be a XLR-TRS-Pheonix connector etc

Of course that only applies if both ends are balanced.

The reason that a true balance connection is 6dB louder than the same thing in an unbalanced connection is that the voltage swing is twice that of an unbalanced connection.

Twice the voltage is 6dB higher.

The reason a balanced connection is desirable is that no signal travels on the shield. The signal is on the 2 inner conductors. Any noise that gets on the shield simply goes to ground and does not "mix" with the signal.

Does the answer to any of these questions lessen or improve the performance of the Submersive? :confused:

Since the answer to my question is No, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for answers to your questions.

Is your question to verify that you are an arsehat , since the answer to my question is No it does not matter because I already knew that you were one. :p:p

I got a few quick questions.....
Does the Submersive drivers have cast or stamped baskets ?
Does anyone know what the linear excursion peak (x-max) is on
the drivers ?
In fact id not mind seeing the full driver specs if anyone has em.

thanks

bump. Anyone?

Look, I know the Submersive is a great performer. I asked these questions just because I was curious. I have know Mark Seaton longer then most of you guys here, I know he is a straight shooter.

They are just basic questions. Its not like we voted for women to pose for an AVS calender and I asked to see one of the girls pee pees.

bump. Anyone?

Look, I know the Submersive is a great performer. I asked these questions just because I was curious. I have know Mark Seaton longer then most of you guys here, I know he is a straight shooter.

They are just basic questions. Its not like we voted for women to pose for an AVS calender and I asked to see one of the girls pee pees.

James - There are some pretty valid reasons one rarely sees the driver specs in regards to subwoofer drivers - people will make all sorts of perfomance assumptions based on modeling software and using nothing more.

Thanks to several seasoned designers - including Mark Seaton - we have come a long way in the various forums (fora?) in the past 2 or 3 years in regards to subwoofer performance.

In 2005, all anyone looked at was "how loud at 20 Hz", in terms of test results.

In 2005, many people championed the idea that all one needed to do was look at a graph of output at individual frequencies in order to ascertain overall performance.

I don't blame you for wanting to know the "specs" on Mark's brain child - but I do hope you understand Mark totally understands how to take the design and make the sum better than we might assume the sum would be from looking at just a few specs.

For example - driver efficiency is rarely discussed in any of these older style subwoofer tests. Driver efficiency is a HUGE issue in a subwoofer's performance in delivering high SPL's at several frequencies simultaneously.

This is, for example, one reason that Mark and Danley get so much "WOW" performance when people are listening to subwoofers built using drivers that, on paper, don't seem that far superior to a lot of what one could spend a few hundred dollars on and build a dual 15 inch, pro amp DIY project.

I hope this made a small amount of sense. My kids just got home from suffering through the new movie "Bruno". They said it sucked beyond belief, and are in an adjacent room to me, opining that a refund of time and money is warranted for their loss tonight. I am typing with an ear towards their whining.

I did try to tell them to go see Transformers for a second time, to no avail. :D

I might not truly need 2 submersives but I am right on that size of 5000cf. It comes out to like real close to 4900cf however this room is just my living room. It is not sealed and it completely open to the kitchen and there is 2 different hallways and another large opening at the back of the living room. It is a very open room with a large vaulted ceiling. I may not have the actual working sub knowledge of the people on the forum but I know enough to realize I made a major mistake the first time and I am way under subbed. So while I could probably get by with one submersive, I know with 2 without a doubt I shouldn't have to worry about an upgrade in that area for quite some time. I like the idea of having the duals. I won't find myself under subbed again. Sure under subbed compared to many of the setups I have seen here in the picture thread, but not under subbed for my room and my setup.

As for the sparks, this is not to start a debate or any slight what so ever on the sparks, but when it comes to speakers I am just a Paradigm guy. Yes they are pricey but this is the one area where I will pay the money. I just love the sound of Paradigm speakers and have for a long time. The new aesthetics on the studio series v5 are just mouth watering to me. Back to the XLR connections I'm not worried about being able to hook them up and I have decent cables I have gotten from bluejeans but I guess my primary question was for the people that are using nothing but XLR connections is this something that they have running straight off of their AVR? Not that I look at tons and tons of them but I don't ever remember seeing them on an AVR, at least in the Yamahas I have looked at over the years.


Yes, it sounds like you will probably want dual subs with that size room with vaulted ceilings and lots of openings to other rooms.

As far as I know there are no AVR's with XLR connections. Dedicated preamplifiers are designed to work with XLR connections. I guess I misunderstood when you asked "How do I get the signal from my AVR to the Sub." :confused: The only reason I'm going to use my AVR with Mark's products are because I just bought it and didn't want to bother selling it and getting a dedicated pre/pro.

The gain has nothing to do with the XLR connector and EVERYTHING to do with a balanced connection-and that assumes a true driven balanced connection and not an impedance balanced connection. That could be a XLR-TRS-Pheonix connector etc

Of course that only applies if both ends are balanced.

The reason that a true balance connection is 6dB louder than the same thing in an unbalanced connection is that the voltage swing is twice that of an unbalanced connection.

Twice the voltage is 6dB higher.

The reason a balanced connection is desirable is that no signal travels on the shield. The signal is on the 2 inner conductors. Any noise that gets on the shield simply goes to ground and does not "mix" with the signal.

Thanks for the clarification Ivan. I knew that if I was off that someone here would correct me. I just tried my best but I guess I over reached this time:o.

Hey Hudda--any cool movies/music that the SubMersive has you grinning about that you wouldn't mind sharing? I'm hungry for details to keep my wait from killing me... :D

BTW, Uni_Panther, be encouraged that through the forums you'll get great help. Mark Seaton is a legend even at his tender age ;) and if you get Seaton Sound products you are going to be in incredibly capable hands for tech help!


Hey allredp,

Sorry to hear your wait is going to be longer now but that black oak finish is going to be sweet! :)

As a matter of fact, I just watched an old Peter Fonda flick last night "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry." Great muscle car film!! I saw it when it came out new in the early 70's and have wanted a '69 Lime Green Charger ever since. For now, I've had to settle for just the movie on DVD. Believe it or not, this was probably the best test for the SubMersive in my system so far. There are plenty of scenes with a '67 Impala and the '69 Charger where you hear a variety of low growling sounds from the monster engines. These sounds are actually complex as any muscle car fan knows. GLUG, GLUG, GLUG. BANG, BANG, BANG. WHOOSH, WHOOSH, WHOOSH. WOW, the SubMersive revealed its ability to render multiple LF sounds with great gusto and impeccable detail. I can tell you that it was very convincing sound reproduction. That 440 Magnum was IN THE ROOM WITH ME! The accuracy of Mark's sub is otherworldly.

I am also continually in awe of this sub's ability to disappear in the room. I cannot localize it except to say sound always seems to be coming from the center of the display.

I hope that helps to tide you over. :D

Just for fun run your systems at reference level with the BD Valkyrie. Last night there were a few times I thought my seat lifted off the floor.:D

Art

James - There are some pretty valid reasons one rarely sees the driver specs in regards to subwoofer drivers - people will make all sorts of perfomance assumptions based on modeling software and using nothing more.

Thanks to several seasoned designers - including Mark Seaton - we have come a long way in the various forums (fora?) in the past 2 or 3 years in regards to subwoofer performance.

In 2005, all anyone looked at was "how loud at 20 Hz", in terms of test results.

In 2005, many people championed the idea that all one needed to do was look at a graph of output at individual frequencies in order to ascertain overall performance.

I don't blame you for wanting to know the "specs" on Mark's brain child - but I do hope you understand Mark totally understands how to take the design and make the sum better than we might assume the sum would be from looking at just a few specs.

For example - driver efficiency is rarely discussed in any of these older style subwoofer tests. Driver efficiency is a HUGE issue in a subwoofer's performance in delivering high SPL's at several frequencies simultaneously.

This is, for example, one reason that Mark and Danley get so much "WOW" performance when people are listening to subwoofers built using drivers that, on paper, don't seem that far superior to a lot of what one could spend a few hundred dollars on and build a dual 15 inch, pro amp DIY project.

I hope this made a small amount of sense. My kids just got home from suffering through the new movie "Bruno". They said it sucked beyond belief, and are in an adjacent room to me, opining that a refund of time and money is warranted for their loss tonight. I am typing with an ear towards their whining.

I did try to tell them to go see Transformers for a second time, to no avail. :D

Thanks Craig, that makes perfect sense . Asking for the driver specs on a "commercial" subwoofer is a bit much given the way things are today. I could see how things could get ugly pretty fast. Hell I don't want to know, I just need to buy one and I can run a few tests which will give me a ballpark idea of what the specs are.

Say Craig, are you gonna do 1 or 2 of em ? Oh and this is kinda OT but the only other Subwoofer(s) that I am thinking about are a HSU ULS-15 DualDrive , how come you never tested one of those sets Craig ? I am basically wanting the MOST HIGH SOUND QUALITY BASS $2000 will buy me.
Its gotta be great for movies and music.

Thanks Craig, that makes perfect sense . Asking for the driver specs on a "commercial" subwoofer is a bit much given the way things are today. I could see how things could get ugly pretty fast. Hell I don't want to know, I just need to buy one and I can run a few tests which will give me a ballpark idea of what the specs are.

Say Craig, are you gonna do 1 or 2 of em ? Oh and this is kinda OT but the only other Subwoofer(s) that I am thinking about are a HSU ULS-15 DualDrive , how come you never tested one of those sets Craig ? I am basically wanting the MOST HIGH SOUND QUALITY BASS $2000 will buy me.
Its gotta be great for movies and music.

James - Hsu and Rythmik know I would be happy to test their subs at anytime. I know longer have the old crew here from the 2005-early 2008 time frame, but it would be fun to personally try out their 15 inch sealed designs.

From their point of view, and also understanding how the world of audio works, I "get" why they would hesitate.

In the auto world, we dealers tend to love each other's products. One of my best clients is a Chevrolet, Ford, Volvo, Toyota and Hyundai dealer. Last night, my wife asked him what he would like seeing me in a sedan for my "everyday" car. He responded that the Jaguar XJ-8 is his favorite sedan.

Unfortunately, we just don't seem to see this kinds of comraderie in the audio world.

For now, let's just say Hsu and Rythmik are always welcome here. :)

Now we're talking Hudda! :)

Just the kind of help I need--who'da thought a 70's flick would show off the SubMersive?! But, that's just the kind of review that gets me drooling; when you can experience muscle cars sounding like the real thing, not just one-note explosions getting louder and louder.

Take the night off, you've done your good deed for the day... ;)
Hey allredp,

Sorry to hear your wait is going to be longer now but that black oak finish is going to be sweet! :)

As a matter of fact, I just watched an old Peter Fonda flick last night "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry." Great muscle car film!! I saw it when it came out new in the early 70's and have wanted a '69 Lime Green Charger ever since. For now, I've had to settle for just the movie on DVD. Believe it or not, this was probably the best test for the SubMersive in my system so far. There are plenty of scenes with a '67 Impala and the '69 Charger where you hear a variety of low growling sounds from the monster engines. These sounds are actually complex as any muscle car fan knows. GLUG, GLUG, GLUG. BANG, BANG, BANG. WHOOSH, WHOOSH, WHOOSH. WOW, the SubMersive revealed its ability to render multiple LF sounds with great gusto and impeccable detail. I can tell you that it was very convincing sound reproduction. That 440 Magnum was IN THE ROOM WITH ME! The accuracy of Mark's sub is otherworldly.

I am also continually in awe of this sub's ability to disappear in the room. I cannot localize it except to say sound always seems to be coming from the center of the display.

I hope that helps to tide you over. :D

Just for fun run your systems at reference level with the BD Valkyrie. Last night there were a few times I thought my seat lifted off the floor.:D

Art

I can vouch for Valkyrie soundtrack even with a lowly MK350X. I can't wait to hear with the Black Oak Submersive in Mark's que.

"Waaaiiting is the haaardest part." Tom Petty :(

Now we're talking Hudda! :)

Just the kind of help I need--who'da thought a 70's flick would show off the SubMersive?! But, that's just the kind of review that gets me drooling; when you can experience muscle cars sounding like the real thing, not just one-note explosions getting louder and louder.

Take the night off, you've done your good deed for the day... ;)


Glad I could be of help. Waiting is hard but the anticipation is fun too. I'm waiting for 3 Catalysts from Mark which should be here in 2-3 weeks BUT I did receive my 2 Sparks today. Woo-hoo! Did some light listening tonight and I'm blown away. As authoritative as the SubMersive is, the Sparks are absolutely exquisite. They will be my surrounds when everything is set up but for now are being used for stereo/2.1. It's a cliche but I heard things I never heard before in certain pieces. Amazing! The crystal clarity is beyond belief. Mark's loudspeakers are EXACTLY what I've been seeking. Accuracy.:cool:

Hudda,

Can you please put some pictures up of the Sparks ? Thanks !

Regards,

Is your question to verify that you are an arsehat , since the answer to my question is No it does not matter because I already knew that you were one. :p:pYou totally missed the point of my post, but that's not really surprising.

The answer to your questions are totally irrelevant to the performance of the Submersive. Why does it matter if it uses a driver with a stamped basket instead of a cast basket? What connection does that have to their performance? Does knowing the Thiele-Small parameters of the drivers change the net performance of the Submersive?

Mark has nothing to gain and plenty to lose by educating the competition by answering your questions so I don't expect you'll see them answered.

Mark has nothing to gain and plenty to lose by educating the competition by answering your questions so I don't expect you'll see them answered.

Stereodude, I agree 100% , I should have put more thought into it before asking that question. I am sorry for the name calling, I was out of line. Lets get back to Submersive talk.

My new SubMersives are still not dialed in very well (some lower bass bumps -- will eventually get around to using Audyssey Pro) but watched WOTW last night (yet again) and was amazed, blown away, startled at the impact these things demonstrate. I thought my old Dunlavy subs were the best (each sealed cabinet of about 16 cubic feet and contained four (4) 12 inch drivers ---and I had two of these monsters). But after last night, the new winner is clearly the SubMersives. What an incredibly fun product to own :D:D:D.

My new SubMersives are still not dialed in very well (some lower bass bumps -- will eventually get around to using Audyssey Pro) but watched WOTW last night (yet again) and was amazed, blown away, startled at the impact these things demonstrate. I thought my old Dunlavy subs were the best (each sealed cabinet of about 16 cubic feet and contained four (4) 12 inch drivers ---and I had two of these monsters). But after last night, the new winner is clearly the SubMersives. What an incredibly fun product to own :D:D:D.

Just wait until you run The Increible Hulk and Cloverfield :D.

Just for fun run your systems at reference level with the BD Valkyrie. Last night there were a few times I thought my seat lifted off the floor.:D

Art

Valkyrie had some of the best audio (especially bass) I've heard for a long time, the initial strafing and AAA fire scene were frightening. The bombing scene while the family was in the bunker really showed-off the visceral and dynamic impact this sub(s) has at a level of realism I've never encountered before.

Glad I could be of help. Waiting is hard but the anticipation is fun too. I'm waiting for 3 Catalysts from Mark which should be here in 2-3 weeks BUT I did receive my 2 Sparks today. Woo-hoo! Did some light listening tonight and I'm blown away. As authoritative as the SubMersive is, the Sparks are absolutely exquisite. They will be my surrounds when everything is set up but for now are being used for stereo/2.1. It's a cliche but I heard things I never heard before in certain pieces. Amazing! The crystal clarity is beyond belief. Mark's loudspeakers are EXACTLY what I've been seeking. Accuracy.:cool:

Great to hear you received the Sparks and are enjoying them until your Catalysts are ready later this month. :)

Those little guys have some serious clarity and dynamics to them, which often get forgotten when Catalysts are displayed at the same event. :rolleyes:

Please do enjoy them in the 2.1 setup for now and let others know what you think of them. :)

Mark, do you ship to South Africa ? :)

Regards,

My new SubMersives are still not dialed in very well (some lower bass bumps -- will eventually get around to using Audyssey Pro) but watched WOTW last night (yet again) and was amazed, blown away, startled at the impact these things demonstrate. I thought my old Dunlavy subs were the best (each sealed cabinet of about 16 cubic feet and contained four (4) 12 inch drivers ---and I had two of these monsters). But after last night, the new winner is clearly the SubMersives. What an incredibly fun product to own :D:D:D.
What a great review audioguy! This kind of talk is just what I need... Can't wait for Wednesday's tracking #!!!

Great to hear you received the Sparks and are enjoying them until your Catalysts are ready later this month. :)

Those little guys have some serious clarity and dynamics to them, which often get forgotten when Catalysts are displayed at the same event. :rolleyes:

Please do enjoy them in the 2.1 setup for now and let others know what you think of them. :)

Mark I had sent you a couple PMs a while ago, if you could please take the time to answer them (I know your a bit busy and all). Looking forward to your response.

Hudda,

Can you please put some pictures up of the Sparks ? Thanks !

Regards,



Sure. Here you go.

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab126/Hudda_bucket/P7120009.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab126/Hudda_bucket/P7120011.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab126/Hudda_bucket/P7120006.jpg

Thanks Hudda. Those Sparks look amazing! I'm sure they sound even better than they look;)

The Sparks look great. I am sure they sound fantastic as well.
They look beefy:p:D.

Nice pics of the sparks! Here is a few for you guys still waiting on your SubMersives. :) Dont make fun of my outdated carpet and ugly brown doors! Lots of work needs to go into this basement. :D

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0934.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0936.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0937.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0938.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0941.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0944.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu35/smellyjawa/IMG_0946.jpg

That plain black is just beautiful as well. I think my next sub will be a Submersive in black oak. If a darker cherry or rosewood will be offered, I'll jump on that. I don't know when next I'll get approx. $2.5K to spend on a subwoofer or AV equipment in general :P . Might as well make it a Submersive.
oooo....look the cute doggie in pic 5.

I just wanted to comment on a few things...

1. I love my 3 Catalysts. I haven't tested them at all close to their abilities but their clarity and soundstage are absolutely amazing. They are built like a tank and totally exude a sense of quality design/construction/components. They aren't a pretty veneer, of course....but I have not owned or heard a loudspeaker that comes close to their level of performance...within a reasonable price range, of course.

2. I just got my 4 Sparks. I'll be playing with them some today. Everything so far mirrors the Catalysts. These things are heavy.

3. I'm waiting on my Terraform XLs.

I'll also get some pics up later today.

I just wanted to comment on a few things...

1. I love my 3 Catalysts. I haven't tested them at all close to their abilities but their clarity and soundstage are absolutely amazing. They are built like a tank and totally exude a sense of quality design/construction/components. They aren't a pretty veneer, of course....but I have not owned or heard a loudspeaker that comes close to their level of performance...within a reasonable price range, of course.

2. I just got my 4 Sparks. I'll be playing with them some today. Everything so far mirrors the Catalysts. These things are heavy.

3. I'm waiting on my Terraform XLs.

I'll also get some pics up later today.
That's great news. Can't wait for you to get the whole system up and running. Should be quite an experience.

i just wanted to comment on a few things...

1. I love my 3 catalysts. I haven't tested them at all close to their abilities but their clarity and soundstage are absolutely amazing. They are built like a tank and totally exude a sense of quality design/construction/components. They aren't a pretty veneer, of course....but i have not owned or heard a loudspeaker that comes close to their level of performance...within a reasonable price range, of course.

2. I just got my 4 sparks. I'll be playing with them some today. Everything so far mirrors the catalysts. These things are heavy.

3. I'm waiting on my terraform xls.

I'll also get some pics up later today.

one word--envy!!

Sure. Here you go.

Thanks for the pics. Very nice !

Regards,

Great to hear you received the Sparks and are enjoying them until your Catalysts are ready later this month. :)

Those little guys have some serious clarity and dynamics to them, which often get forgotten when Catalysts are displayed at the same event. :rolleyes:

Please do enjoy them in the 2.1 setup for now and let others know what you think of them. :)


Thanks Mark. I must say I am surprised at the output of the Sparks. Huge soundstage from a compact speaker and perfectly clean all the way. I now see what you meant when you referred to intelligibility being a priority for you. The Sparks have it in spades.

Should someone start a general thread in the "Speakers" section for Seaton products? Maybe someone like Peter or John who already have both the Catalysts and Sparks?

I was one of the lucky ones to be at Peter ('fugueness')'s house this past Saturday to hear the 4 SubMersives et al (and to see Duc's Lumis!) all in action. Like any semi-sane person, I came away realizing that I needed to think about a sub upgrade. I have had a SVS PB10 in my ~ 2000 cu ft room for ~ 4 yrs; it was my first sub and an eye-opener as to what HT should be. But you can well imagine that I saw a new level to this on Saturday!

But a question for those who have SubMersives, re placement: just how much space do the 'business ends' of these subs need? Is it really OK to have one of the speakers pointing right at a wall (presumably at least a few inches from it) and the other out into the room? Or would it be better to have the solid side of the box close to the wall, and the two speakers having more open space (but close to the wall)? Any thoughts would be most appreciated as I try to think how I might fit one of these into my room.

But a question for those who have SubMersives, re placement: just how much space do the 'business ends' of these subs need? Is it really OK to have one of the speakers pointing right at a wall (presumably at least a few inches from it) and the other out into the room? Or would it be better to have the solid side of the box close to the wall, and the two speakers having more open space (but close to the wall)? Any thoughts would be most appreciated as I try to think how I might fit one of these into my room.

That is exactly how I have mine
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=1940876
Right now, my sub is actually closer to that back wall. It works fine this way.
No problems whatsoever set up this way.

But a question for those who have SubMersives, re placement: just how much space do the 'business ends' of these subs need? Is it really OK to have one of the speakers pointing right at a wall (presumably at least a few inches from it) and the other out into the room? Or would it be better to have the solid side of the box close to the wall, and the two speakers having more open space (but close to the wall)? Any thoughts would be most appreciated as I try to think how I might fit one of these into my room.

Hi Bill, two of the Submersives here have one of their drivers pointed right into the wall. Mark said turning them 90 degrees would have a nominal effect on the response. The location is the main thing.

Hi Bill, two of the Submersives here have one of their drivers pointed right into the wall. Mark said turning them 90 degrees would have a nominal effect on the response. The location is the main thing.

Is one of the drivers pointed to the side wall or rear wall - or doesn't it matter?

In otherwords, if one were to put the sub in a corner, would it be better to have one of the drivers pointed into the room (with the other pointed to the back wall), or have the driver pointed to the "right" (if placed in the front left corner of the room) and the other driver pointed to the "left" into that wall?

I can not seem to locate a price on the sparks.
I know it is a unique driver also. What type of sound might one expect from the "tweeter"? Silk, Aluminum? I ask because I am using some in ceiling Definitive UIW RSS III rears and surrounds I am fond of and I am concered with timber match.

Finally I know they are self powered. Does that mean you feed them with a preamp out or standard speaker output?

Well I've had the SubMersive in my system for a couple of weeks now, replacing the SVS PC-13 Ultra.
It's an interesting contrast of doing bass.
At first I felt the SubMersive was calibrated wrong. I wasn't getting quite the room shaking explosions and such that I was use to with the SVS.
So one of the first things I did was to put the SMS-1 to it.
Solid response all the way down to 15hz. No roll off from 20 to 15hz!
Still compared to what I was use to, room, furniture, wall, picture, shaking and vibrating, I felt like the Submersive was possibly lacking a bit compared to the SVS.
For music I immediately fell in love with the Submersive!
So deep, so tight, so musical........ just PERFECT!

So I'm wondering what it all means?
Is the Submersive just not interacting with the room to the same degree as the SVS or does the SVS actually have more LFE energy than the SubMersive or is it something else, some characteristic of the bass reproduction, tighter, faster, less overhang......
Don't get me wrong I love the Submersive! I think it's the best sounding sub I've ever heard, particularly for music.
I'm just wondering why the SVS seems to shake stuff more:)

dc

When I switched my ultra from 15hz tune to sealed I had very simillar impressions. My spl meter was telling me that I was hitting the same levels (while setting up/not max output) but the sub felt/seemed less impactful when sealed. Maybe due to less moving air of a sealed alignment?

Hi dc,

The first question is to confirm you were in the same location with both subwoofers?

Assuming that is the case, the difference could easily be from the relative shape of the response and additional output in the upper octave, which will dominate the SPL measurements you likely are using to calibrate levels. I would recommend playing with a filter or a low pass in the SMS- to create a little more of a taper downward in the 35-80Hz range and then raise the level of the sub some.

You hadn't mentioned output as an issue, so I suspect most of the differences are in the response shape. The PC-13U will definitely have a different shape to the low end than the SubMersive, and a little tweaking of the response tilt very well could find a nice balance in that regard.

My experience as just the opposite. I had dual Ultras and now have dual Submersives --- not even close or in the same ballpark. The sheer brute impact of the Submersives and air moving capabilities are unlike any sub I have had (and I have had a LOT of them).

My first suggestion would be to find another spot for the sub (if you are able). Since there is no phase dial on the Submersives, you may have an arrival time issue. I would also look closely at the SMS. I used to have two SMS's and while they can be very beneficial, the do not tell the whole story --- they do NOT address time domain issues, only frequency.

Keep working at it. Trust me: when you find the right spot, you will be truly amazed!!

Mark,

how bout a car version of this sub? ever thought about it? what do you think it would sound like if you just ran a power cord out and stuffed it in your trunk?

Mark,

how bout a car version of this sub? ever thought about it? what do you think it would sound like if you just ran a power cord out and stuffed it in your trunk?

Sounds like something you would expect to see on the Red Green show.

Mark,

how bout a car version of this sub? ever thought about it? what do you think it would sound like if you just ran a power cord out and stuffed it in your trunk?

It's pretty amusing to do, especially after you shelf 8-12dB out of the low end of the response to match a car's cabin. ;)

Car audio bass is very easy, and more a question of where you can fit things and tricking those who won't listen into doing things that are more likely to sound good or limit their options to screw things up. The car audio vocabulary also tends to not include the words powered subwoofer or high pass filter. While entertaining in brief doses, it's not a market I'm currently interested in supporting. There's no reason that couldn't change down the road, but only if I had all the parts & tools readily available to wrap things up in a way to protect the self-proclaimed geniuses from themselves. :rolleyes:

Well I've had the SubMersive in my system for a couple of weeks now, replacing the SVS PC-13 Ultra.
It's an interesting contrast of doing bass.
At first I felt the SubMersive was calibrated wrong. I wasn't getting quite the room shaking explosions and such that I was use to with the SVS.
So one of the first things I did was to put the SMS-1 to it.
Solid response all the way down to 15hz. No roll off from 20 to 15hz!
Still compared to what I was use to, room, furniture, wall, picture, shaking and vibrating, I felt like the Submersive was possibly lacking a bit compared to the SVS.
For music I immediately fell in love with the Submersive!
So deep, so tight, so musical........ just PERFECT!

So I'm wondering what it all means?
Is the Submersive just not interacting with the room to the same degree as the SVS or does the SVS actually have more LFE energy than the SubMersive or is it something else, some characteristic of the bass reproduction, tighter, faster, less overhang......
Don't get me wrong I love the Submersive! I think it's the best sounding sub I've ever heard, particularly for music.
I'm just wondering why the SVS seems to shake stuff more:)

dc

To add to Mark's response... When I first placed the submersive in my current theater, I was definitely missing out on the lowest frequencies. I wasn't getting the same low end rumbling that I got out of my old SVS 30-39+; even though the SPL meter was telling me that the levels were the same. I tried the sub crawl technique and picked a new location for the Submersive where the low end rumble sounded the best (not necessarily the same spot where the bass is the loudest). This caused me to raise the level of the sub compared to the other speakers. Now, the low end the submersive produces is fear inducing! I think, as Mark said, the large dynamic capability of the sub in the upper bass range may be skewing your measurements and those of the SMS-1. You need to either find a location for the Submersive where the room tames some of the upper bass response and boosts the lower bass response (like I did); or emply some EQ to lower the upper bass and then boost the overall level of the sub (as Mark suggested). Good luck!

Hi dc,

The first question is to confirm you were in the same location with both subwoofers?

Assuming that is the case, the difference could easily be from the relative shape of the response and additional output in the upper octave, which will dominate the SPL measurements you likely are using to calibrate levels. I would recommend playing with a filter or a low pass in the SMS- to create a little more of a taper downward in the 35-80Hz range and then raise the level of the sub some.

You hadn't mentioned output as an issue, so I suspect most of the differences are in the response shape. The PC-13U will definitely have a different shape to the low end than the SubMersive, and a little tweaking of the response tilt very well could find a nice balance in that regard.

Hi Mark,
Yes both subs are in the same position.... just not at the same time obviously:)
As soon as I get a chance I'll run some SPL measurements with a few LFE heavy movie scenes, Darla glass tapping, WOTW lighting, Star Wars exploding ball, etc....
And I'll play around with the SMS tweaking as you suggested.

dc

so Mark, you actally tried one in the car? any idea what kind of spl you achieved?

I seriously think the car audio market could use some proper powered sub solutions, if you ever did one, I'd be first in line

Thanks to Peter for hosting the GTG over the weekend. It was a nice time and there were a lot of folks crammed in a small space... Both projectors on display were awesome....

This was my first time to hear the catalysts and the sparks... The system clearly presented best in class dynamics and clarity during the HT demos. Never heard anything like it. Even IMAX has nothing on this.... Later on I did get to briefly listen to the catalysts on 2 ch music. Although the setup was less than optimal (we found the best listening position was about 6 feet back from the couch, dictated by the width of the front L&R because of the very large screen) it was clear the catalysts were more than a 1 trick pony. A bit more forward in the treble than most of the speakers I listen to but not fatiguing. A lot of detail and dynamics. Seemed like there was a little thickness in the lower midrange. Overall very impressive for the brief period of time I had to audition them. Also a bit large for my current room in the new house in California. A room that would seem to be far more suited for sparks.... So I talked Seaton into letting me borrow a pair. They are currently setup in my new HT but all the info on those will come in later more comprehensive review. So far, they are very impressive. detailed, effortless, and dynamic. They were easily able to overload my room when were demoing yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On to the bass...... Seaton brought 4 submersives with him. 3 of the new veneered finishes.... They look very nice.... In the dark light of peters room it was hard to discern the color of the 3. They all appeared black or almost black. The black stain on cherry had less wood grain than the black oak. (looks more like satin black on MDF versus the black oak where you can see the pronounced grain in the oak). I preferred the black oak. I beleive Peter who is a pro fotographer did shoot pics under proper light so I imagine we will be seeing some better shots posted of the new veneers. Overall the finishes were all very nice and a big step up from the more industrial stock finish. The prices mark is quoting on these makes them a real bargain over the stock finish!!

Now as many of you know I already own a submersive so I was not surprised at how tight, clean and powerful the submersives were in peters room. Nor was I surprised at the nearly flat response to 10hz they acheived during setup. I honestly was a a bit disappointed that mark did not turn em up a bit more... they had plenty left to give... :)

One interesting facet was we did a brief A/B comparison of Peters old sub the the Danley DTS-20. NOTE: the Danley is very large, probably the size of 3 submersives.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/old/Danley%20DTS-20%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

We used WOTW for this comparo and it was a bit lopsided. The Danley was up first and it delivered a decent performance but even before we played the same scene on the submersives I know it was in for a spanking. It was clean but compressing a lot. It was not able to reproduce the subsonic impact that both my epic tower and submersive deliver in their x1 configurations nevermind x4. Then we demoed the same track on the submersives, as soon as the bass started it was clear you could feel everything that was missing on the Danley. It was not in the same league as the submersive. There was so much impact that this scene keep freaking out the video in either the pre-amp and/or the projector so we never even got to finish to the finish the scene since the bass was causing the equipment to malfunction. I know some of you are going but its was x4 versus x1. The difference was so large that even a x2 config of submersives would have trounced the DTS-20 and that would also be a fair comparo price wise. I know its comparing apples to oranges but in my room 1 submersive has more impact than the one DTS-20 in Peter's room. Please take me comments for what they are, comments!

Peter having spent more time with the system and DTS-20 could provide a lot more valuable insight here but submersives clearly were the star of the show...

That said it was nice to meet Keith Yates, Remi, Mike, Hugh and a host of others and put some names with the faces... Peter has a killer system and is obviously a huge movie fan....

I'll be posting some pics and detailed comments and A/B comparisons of the Sparks as main speakers in my HT in the coming weeks....

Thanks again to Peter and to the King o Bass for his generous offer and invaluable setup assistance!!!!!!!!!!

Sean

no idea but your HT looks great... awesome work!

Sean

We used WOTW for this comparo and it was a bit lopsided. The Danley was up first and it delivered a decent performance but even before we played the same scene on the submersives I know it was in for a spanking. It was clean but compressing a lot. It was not able to reproduce the subsonic impact that both my epic tower and submersive deliver in their x1 configurations nevermind x4.


:') i'm so proud. lol. the single 15 incher that did.

Saw pics of thebeautiful black oak and cherry veneer submersives. hopefully the final 3rd veneer option pics would be posted soon.

The Danley was up first and it delivered a decent performance but even before we played the same scene on the submersives I know it was in for a spanking. It was clean but compressing a lot. It was not able to reproduce the subsonic impact that both my epic tower and submersive deliver in their x1 configurations nevermind x4.

Sean,
How does the Submersive compare to the Epik Tower? I realize the Tower was recently replaced by the Dynasty, but I don't think I've seen any direct comparison involving the Submersive and either one of those Epik subs.
Thanks

just listened to eric clapton slowhand sacd and the bass guitar is amazing with the submersive. just wish i had some catalyst for the vocals

Sean,
How does the Submersive compare to the Epik Tower? I realize the Tower was recently replaced by the Dynasty, but I don't think I've seen any direct comparison involving the Submersive and either one of those Epik subs.
Thanks

you can read my comments over on SeatonSound forum here....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877

Sean

:') i'm so proud. lol. the single 15 incher that did.

Saw pics of thebeautiful black oak and cherry veneer submersives. hopefully the final 3rd veneer option pics would be posted soon.

Just for accuracy sake, it was four 15's" vs. one little 12". In this case the little 12" that couldn't.:)

Saw pics of thebeautiful black oak and cherry veneer submersives. hopefully the final 3rd veneer option pics would be posted soon.

Hi TnT',

Which particular veneer option were you interested in? Natural Maple is next to be put to production, but I've been doing a lot of work with the build house on various options, although for both my sanity and shorter lead times we're trying to not get too out of hand with the finishes.

although for both my sanity and shorter lead times we're trying to not get too out of hand with the finishes.That's crazy talk! You need at least 10 finishes besides black. :D

Just for accuracy sake, it was four 15's" vs. one little 12". In this case the little 12" that couldn't.:)

I think he was referring to the tower as the single 15

but as for Peter's that would be 8x15's..... :)

BTW: Nice XKR

Sean

I need some help deciding which color/veneer to get on a Submersive. My speakers are AV123 ELT525s in Rosewood veneer which is reddish my floor is a light to medium brown color, my current subwoofer is an MFW-15 in satin black and it looks ok but I can try and match the speakers or the floor , what would be the nicest color to go with in my room guys?
Give me your opinions. Thanks.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q186/bentvalve/IMG_0131-1.jpg?t=1247794217
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q186/bentvalve/IMG_0130.jpg?t=1247794270

Hi TnT',

Which particular veneer option were you interested in? Natural Maple is next to be put to production, but I've been doing a lot of work with the build house on various options, although for both my sanity and shorter lead times we're trying to not get too out of hand with the finishes.

Hello Mr. Seaton sir,

I'd would be most interested in a Rosewood veneer option if possible.

Hello Mr. Seaton sir,

I'd would be most interested in a Rosewood veneer option if possible.
:eek::D:eek::D:eek::D

Sorry about that but..... I cant wait to hear marks answer on this one;)

I would like to know if anyone (including Mark) has done a 2 meter GP max output test at given frequencies. I have seen several posts talking about how awesome this sub is and I have seen graphs on Mark's site but they say "arbitrary- does not denote max output". Before wondering what my motives are please understand that the Submersive is the ONLY audio product I have ever decided to purchase come hell or high water:D

I am simply wetting my appetite here. I have seen statements that it can easily exceed 120db in room but I would still like to see the numbers for comparison sake. Interested to see how it compares with the output of an A7-900 or Conquest. Until I can bite the bullet (around November) I will continue to fight off the drool reflex!

you can read my comments over on SeatonSound forum here....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877

Sean

Sean,
Could you check that link again? I clicked on it but it just took me right back to the beginning of this thread. Thanks.

[QUOTE=James W. Johnson;16838311]I need some help deciding which color/veneer to get on a Submersive. My speakers are AV123 ELT525s in Rosewood veneer which is reddish my floor is a light to medium brown color, my current subwoofer is an MFW-15 in satin black and it looks ok but I can try and match the speakers or the floor , what would be the nicest color to go with in my room guys?
Give me your opinions. Thanks.


Personally, I would try to match the color of your mains/surrounds. Cherry with some red stain? A light maple would never "match" the floor and then you would have 3 different colors happening. The cherry color will be close enough to your mains that it won't look out of place IMO.

Just my .02

Chris

:eek::D:eek::D:eek::D

Sorry about that but..... I cant wait to hear marks answer on this one;)


Yeah, and if it's not too much trouble Mark would you mind throwing some birdseye maple veneer on my Catalysts? Perhaps they could inlay your logo on the sides in ebony. That would be great, thanks. ;)

Chris

Sean,
Could you check that link again? I clicked on it but it just took me right back to the beginning of this thread. Thanks.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=3184081

For a decent sub the multiple veneer options for versatile deco requests is important.

Afterall the placement of a sub for a better sonic performance oftentimes became an opposing factor to aesthetics, a decent finish could at least please the boss at home.

However I think the priority of providing multiple veneer options currently comes behind
shortening of the lead time.
It's been almost a month since I started the correspondence till now I still am unable to set the deal :(

However I think the priority of providing multiple veneer options currently comes behind shortening of the lead time.
It's been almost a month since I started the correspondence till now I still am unable to set the deal :(

Sorry to hear that ken wu! It is so hard to wait on something this cool, eh?!

These new finishes have surely brought in a bunch of orders (including me!), so I know he's busting to get us all happy.

As Mark hits this next stage of his amazing career, he has mentioned that he is bringing on some help, which should bring down the lead times. I'm guessing the new guys need to get up to speed and may actually take more time from Mark at first until they learn the ropes.

This new cabinet shop sounds like they'll be a great addition to Seaton Sound. Reports from those who've seen the new finishes are extremely encouraging and the pics are gorgeous!

So work those new guys Mark, and thanks for enabling all of our audio obsessions! :p:D

Sorry to hear that ken wu! It is so hard to wait on something this cool, eh?!

These new finishes have surely brought in a bunch of orders (including me!), so I know he's busting to get us all happy.

As Mark hits this next stage of his amazing career, he has mentioned that he is bringing on some help, which should bring down the lead times. I'm guessing the new guys need to get up to speed and may actually take more time from Mark at first until they learn the ropes.

This new cabinet shop sounds like they'll be a great addition to Seaton Sound. Reports from those who've seen the new finishes are extremely encouraging!

So work those new guys Mark and thanks enabling all of our audio obessions!

Thanks for the reply.

I totally understand the booming of orders could cause temporary prolonging of lead time and I guess the sub must be hell of a brilliant performer.
Luckily the sub I am using is in good shape and is doing all the wonders for me just thought I need some extra headroom in my 4500 cubic feet room.
I can almost say that I'm feeling sympathy for all the others on the waiting list.
On the other hand we would choose to wait on for these new babies knowing what they might bring us. Just hoping we'll get constant reminder of current status from time to time without worrying of being left behind (customer service). Weeks of pending order is beginning to bring some adverse effects to my web browsing habits:D

Thanks for posting that. I posted the wrong link.....

Sean

Hey Guys,

I have a Klipsch Sub-12 which is plenty loud enough. How will the Submersive compair to the Sub-12? I like the fact that it's sealed so it should be quicker and tigher, but how about impact? I want someone that will be felt accurate more then loud if you know what I mean...? Room size is 13'x20' with one 13' open to the kitchen area.

Thanks you!

Jack

just listened to eric clapton slowhand sacd and the bass guitar is amazing with the submersive. just wish i had some catalyst for the vocals

For the right price you could have Catalysts for the vocals. :)

I need some help deciding which color/veneer to get on a Submersive. My speakers are AV123 ELT525s in Rosewood veneer which is reddish my floor is a light to medium brown color, my current subwoofer is an MFW-15 in satin black and it looks ok but I can try and match the speakers or the floor , what would be the nicest color to go with in my room guys?
Give me your opinions. Thanks.


Personally, I would try to match the color of your mains/surrounds. Cherry with some red stain? A light maple would never "match" the floor and then you would have 3 different colors happening. The cherry color will be close enough to your mains that it won't look out of place IMO.

Just my .02

Chris

You mean get a clear cherry then stain it myself? Cherry has more of an orange tint. I think id rather get a clear maple , see how that looks , I can always stain the maple. Ah heck, since it does not look like Mark is doing a Rosewood veneer I think the easiest thing to do would be to go with the black oak veneer. Thanks for your input.

Hey Guys,

I have a Klipsch Sub-12 which is plenty loud enough. How will the Submersive compair to the Sub-12? I like the fact that it's sealed so it should be quicker and tigher, but how about impact? I want someone that will be felt accurate more then loud if you know what I mean...? Room size is 13'x20' with one 13' open to the kitchen area.

Thanks you!

Jack

I would think that the SubMersive would play louder and extend deeper than that sub. Remember, the sub you have has a single 12in driver. The SubMersive has 2 15in drivers. I would think that in your room a single SubMersive would be very nice. It should play much deeper than your current sub. This sub is very accurate. If it is in the soundtrack, you will hear it. If it is not in the soundtrack, you wont hear it. It's not just about being loud. I am sure your sub can play loud. My old sub played very loud as well. But to me, the SubMersive is just better on all things that matter. I say go for it:).

Thanks for the reply.

I totally understand the booming of orders could cause temporary prolonging of lead time and I guess the sub must be hell of a brilliant performer.
Luckily the sub I am using is in good shape and is doing all the wonders for me just thought I need some extra headroom in my 4500 cubic feet room.
I can almost say that I'm feeling sympathy for all the others on the waiting list.
On the other hand we would choose to wait on for these new babies knowing what they might bring us. Just hoping we'll get constant reminder of current status from time to time without worrying of being left behind (customer service). Weeks of pending order is beginning to bring some adverse effects to my web browsing habits:D

Well at least you still have a sub! ;) I sold my PB 13 Ultra and have been sub-less for more than a month now. :(:eek:

My wife tells me this is good for my character...

Character must be like broccoli--sure tastes bad, but people keep insisting that I should like it and eat more of it! :D ;)

In the meantime SubMersive owners, keep the reports of great demos/music/movies you're enjoying. Plus any pics would be really sweet as well.

Hello,

I am currently using a pair of Velodyne DD-18's and a pair of HGS-18's with recently upgraded amplifiers.

My room is sealed 13' 10" W x 21' 7" L x 8' 6" H (2538 cf)

There are GIK Tri-Traps in all 4 corners from floor to ceiling.

I listen to most movie material at -7 dB below reference.

How would duel SubMersives compare besides adding lower extension?

John

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/Larry7995/HT/SM-stain-samples.jpg?t=1247875992

The blackberry is on the left and the cherry on the right

The cherry looks like it will satisfy the rosewood(red/maroon) colour people are looking for.

Personally, I like the original black, pro look:D , but these should definitely satisfy those looking for a nice piece of furniture that will pound you body into nirvana;)

Is it true that the more powerful a subwoofer, less important the placement in the room is mainly due to the fact that the subwoofer will overpower the whole room anyway?

no.

Kain,
Nulls can't be fixed with more power.

no.


...And what are YOU doing here?! :p I knew you couldn't stay away. Next thing you know, you'll be in the general Seaton speakers thread pricing out the Catalysts. ;) Hahahahahaha!

Chris

You mean get a clear cherry then stain it myself? Cherry has more of an orange tint. I think id rather get a clear maple , see how that looks , I can always stain the maple. Ah heck, since it does not look like Mark is doing a Rosewood veneer I think the easiest thing to do would be to go with the black oak veneer. Thanks for your input.



Check Larry's thread below. Post 1720. The stained cherry on the right is what I had in mind. The black oak veneer is really nice too but I like the cherry better for your setup.

Chris

...And what are YOU doing here?! :p I knew you couldn't stay away. Next thing you know, you'll be in the general Seaton speakers thread pricing out the Catalysts. ;) Hahahahahaha!

Chris

lol... dang it, you caught me chris... :)

you know how when you were a kid, you couldn't resist touching the flame, even though you knew it was gonna hurt??? :p

edit: fwiw, i agree with you. i think the stained cherry would go best.

lol... dang it, you caught me chris... :)

you know how when you were a kid, you couldn't resist touching the flame, even though you knew it was gonna hurt??? :p

edit: fwiw, i agree with you. i think the stained cherry would go best.


Haha. I know just what you mean. For me it was "don't touch that iron Chris, it's very hot." As soon as her back was turned I touched it and screamed bloody murder.

What sub are you running now?

Chris

Haha. I know just what you mean. For me it was "don't touch that iron Chris, it's very hot." As soon as her back was turned I touched it and screamed bloody murder.

What sub are you running now?

Chris

lol... yup... sounds like we were the same type of kid...

paradigm servo15 v2... no slouch, itself... :)

lol... yup... sounds like we were the same type of kid...

paradigm servo15 v2... no slouch, itself... :)


Niiiiice.

yea, sometimes i think i'm crazy for wanting to try something else... it's served me well, and even though it's "old" technology, it's still not far behind...

the lure of either a submersive or a custom build is strong though...

you'd think one of these days that i'd learn to leave well enough alone... :o

I totally understand the booming of orders could cause temporary prolonging of lead time and I guess the sub must be hell of a brilliant performer.
Just hoping we'll get constant reminder of current status from time to time without worrying of being left behind (customer service). Weeks of pending order is beginning to bring some adverse effects to my web browsing habits:D

Yep, I know just how you feel. :(

Well at least you still have a sub! ;) I sold my PB 13 Ultra and have been sub-less for more than a month now. :(:eek:


Can't be content with PB-13?! Heard it in a friend's HT, in that size of a room it's really powerful and "submersive":D

SVS was getting introduced here in taiwan very recently (last year?), Ron and his crew demoed in taipei 2 weeks ago , then they had a sensational demo in HK and later in mainland China.
I can see the uprising trend in need for HT worldwide and the resources for equipment and knowledge through internet have been huge compared to more than 10 years ago.
Although people here are recognizing the importance of .1 , it's a pity that we don't have many brands to choose as in the States. i guess it takes time for sub makers to reach out from US, simply look at the expending business in China.

Well I've had the SubMersive in my system for a couple of weeks now, replacing the SVS PC-13 Ultra.
It's an interesting contrast of doing bass.
At first I felt the SubMersive was calibrated wrong. I wasn't getting quite the room shaking explosions and such that I was use to with the SVS.
So one of the first things I did was to put the SMS-1 to it.
Solid response all the way down to 15hz. No roll off from 20 to 15hz!
Still compared to what I was use to, room, furniture, wall, picture, shaking and vibrating, I felt like the Submersive was possibly lacking a bit compared to the SVS.
For music I immediately fell in love with the Submersive!
So deep, so tight, so musical........ just PERFECT!

Thanks for your honest opinion.

Can't be content with PB-13?! Heard it in a friend's HT, in that size of a room it's really powerful and "submersive":D

SVS was getting introduced here in taiwan very recently (last year?), Ron and his crew demoed in taipei 2 weeks ago , then they had a sensational demo in HK and later in mainland China.
.
Yeah, I know I had an amazing sub, and I really did love it. Two things worked against me keeping it--the ported design made "noises" at times under duress (admittedly high stress moments like "skidosh" from KFP and the sound cannons from Hulk); also, it was not as visceral in the mid-bass as I'd like it to have been, particularly on music. Other than that, the Ultra was a killer sub and I loved how it integrated in the guy's house who I sold it to. He's grinning ear-to-ear... I will be too, when my SubMersive lands!!! :)

I am now a proud owner of a submersive. Thanks Mark, for the great setup. I am amazed at the clean quality of the bass, and actually the whole sound of the system.
Little by little going thru some dvd's. Hope "Open Range" comes out on blu ray, wow what bass.
Quantum of Solace is not bad either.

I really want to get this sub but there is one thing holding me back.I hear all the time about everyone using a sms-1(what is that?:confused:).I want to upgrade my sub 10 to a submersive in the worst way but the only thing I know about setting the eq in a sub is to turn the crossover all the way up and run audessey.Can that be done with this sub or do I need to do some research on sub eq and how to set it up right?

I really want to get this sub but there is one thing holding me back.I hear all the time about everyone using a sms-1(what is that?:confused:).I want to upgrade my sub 10 to a submersive in the worst way but the only thing I know about setting the eq in a sub is to turn the crossover all the way up and run audessey.Can that be done with this sub or do I need to do some research on sub eq and how to set it up right?

Setup is no different than other subs and you can just run audessy and behappy....

Think of a EQ like ISF calibration. people with cheap displays often dont calibrate them. Those who buy more expensive subs often do. The same applies to EQ. The folks here spending several $K on a sub are more likely to invest in an EQ to optimize its application in the room.

Sean

Just a small suggestion to Mark since I know he reads these forums. I know you are a very busy guy but one small thing I want to point out is that for newcomers like me that have found our way to your forum I stumbled upon something I noticed. The only thing that ever kept me from having the Submersive at the top of my list was aesthetics. your subs looked good but I live in a log cabin and I am a big fan of wood. With that being said I was HAPPY to have someone direct me to your website and told me that you now have wood veneer. Your product is now #1 on my list once I get the money. now that I said that it brings me to my point and what I wanted to point out.

When you get to your site as a newcomer and get to the forums page I figured naturally the spot to go was to the "News and Announcements" section as it was described as where to get information on your products. You click that and then select the Product listing, Availability, Status and Pricing. Ok everything looks good but no mention of wood veneer.

However when you are on the main page and go to "Seaton Sound Central" which is where the majority of the board exists and then click on that same Product Listing, Availability, Status and Pricing list you get that same page of products only with the nice bold red lettered clickable link to the wood veneer.

What had me pulling my hair out to find this was that "Seaton Sound Central" sounded to me more like just a discussion forum which is great and I am sure I will use in the future. Please please don't take this as a criticism because I understand you are busy and you have all the business you can handle but when you do get a chance maybe you could have that "News and Announcements" section changed so when you click on the Product listings it also shows that red clickable link to the wood veneer products. I think this would help out a lot of people going there like myself to find out more information about your new aestheticaly pleasing Submersives.

In closing I LOVE that blackberry stain. I can't wait to be a customer someday when I can order up two of those beauties.

Just a small suggestion to Mark since I know he reads these forums. I know you are a very busy guy but one small thing I want to point out is that for newcomers like me that have found our way to your forum I stumbled upon something I noticed. The only thing that ever kept me from having the Submersive at the top of my list was aesthetics. your subs looked good but I live in a log cabin and I am a big fan of wood. With that being said I was HAPPY to have someone direct me to your website and told me that you now have wood veneer. Your product is now #1 on my list once I get the money. now that I said that it brings me to my point and what I wanted to point out.

When you get to your site as a newcomer and get to the forums page I figured naturally the spot to go was to the "News and Announcements" section as it was described as where to get information on your products. You click that and then select the Product listing, Availability, Status and Pricing. Ok everything looks good but no mention of wood veneer.
...
In closing I LOVE that blackberry stain. I can't wait to be a customer someday when I can order up two of those beauties.

Hi u_p',

Thank you for the heads up, as I seen now I had missed updating the New & Announcement threads where I have the same thread copied. The same information is in both places now with current details.

The stain finishes will change a little from those to wood samples as the cabinet builder has been in the process of switching all stains to water based (the black finish and clear already are). They have been refining the process a bit and I'll have the first more representative cabinets early next week. The ones I brought with to the Bay Area meet came out a bit darker than intended showing less grain as they were rushed a bit to get those 3 done for the meet.

Thank you for keeping an eye on our progress while we work up to speed with the new finishes!

How does the Submersive compare with this guy? >>>>>>
http://www.edesignaudio.com/gallery/773_large.png

^^ that is a new subwooofer from Elemental Designs A7s-650 , I am either getting a Submersive or an A7s-650 , I cannot make up my mind. :)

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?t=1&products_id=891

You can not judge much about a subwoofer based on a single FR chart.

^^ that is a new subwooofer from Elemental Designs A7s-650 , I am either getting a Submersive or an A7s-650 , I cannot make up my mind. :)

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?t=1&products_id=891

You can not judge much about a subwoofer based on a single FR chart.

Correct. More importantly, the set of graphs I believe those came from don't tell a whole lot given they all included different EQ using the EQ.2 to get the result you see. Unless they supply you the exact settings of the dials on the EQ.2, you aren't going to see that response, and I doubt that leaves any EQ left to use for room interaction.

The posted response of the SubMersive is what it does outdoors when simply plugged in. I or any user could certainly EQ it to have a hyper-flat response curve to 10Hz, but I wouldn't recommend that for most applications. I do believe the ground plane response is important to the sound of a subwoofer in a room, even when you are applying EQ to tame peaks in the room. The sealed ED subs look plenty capable, but it would be a big reach to make any sort of useful comparisons using the measurements you are referencing.

How does the Submersive compare with this guy? >>>>>>
http://www.edesignaudio.com/gallery/773_large.png

This frequency response looks beautifully flat down to the high teens with a gentle 12db/octave rolloff below that. This would indicate that some internal eq is at work flattening that response and pushing the F3 a bit lower than it would be naturally. Which would sound better between this and the Submersive without any external eq is likely to be very dependent on the particular room acoustics. The eD without external eq in a smaller sealed room could come off sounding a bit heavy with room gain factored in. On the other hand, in a larger open room, the eD response may hold up better than Submersive without external eq.

This frequency response looks beautifully flat down to the high teens with a gentle 12db/octave rolloff below that. This would indicate that some internal eq is at work flattening that response and pushing the F3 a bit lower than it would be naturally. Which would sound better between this and the Submersive without any external eq is likely to be very dependent on the particular room acoustics. The eD without external eq in a smaller sealed room could come off sounding a bit heavy with room gain factored in. On the other hand, in a larger open room, the eD response may hold up better than Submersive without external eq.

Hi mike,

Actually if you extend and fit a line looking at the slope between 10-20Hz you would find a shape steeper than 12dB/oct, maybe 16-18dB/oct. The part many might not notice is that if you look up the description of the original measurements, these (they have a set of them for various sealed subs) are not the straight response of the subwoofer, but rather it would appear these are the best looking ground plane curves they came up with through the use of the 2 PEQ filters in an EQ.2. That's quite different than if this was what anyone else would measure when they straight plug in these subs. I'm not saying they won't be capable, but the graphs aren't showing what some seem to think they are.

You are correct. That certainly is different that what it seems if external eq is applied and not really noted. Maybe an eq boost in the high teens is what might account for that streeper slope that you noted.

I'm not saying they won't be capable, but the graphs aren't showing what some seem to think they are.

hmmm...
So what do you think the graphs are showing and what is it some seem to think they are seeing?

This frequency response looks beautifully flat down to the high teens with a gentle 12db/octave rolloff below that. This would indicate that some internal eq is at work flattening that response and pushing the F3 a bit lower than it would be naturally. Which would sound better between this and the Submersive without any external eq is likely to be very dependent on the particular room acoustics. The eD without external eq in a smaller sealed room could come off sounding a bit heavy with room gain factored in. On the other hand, in a larger open room, the eD response may hold up better than Submersive without external eq.

nowadays with room correction like Audyssey, Trinnov - room/sub interaction will be taken care of whether a sub is internally EQed or not?

This frequency response looks beautifully flat down to the high teens with a gentle 12db/octave rolloff below that. This would indicate that some internal eq is at work flattening that response and pushing the F3 a bit lower than it would be naturally.


I am 99% sure there is no such EQ in this ED sub.

Though I don't see that 16-18dB/oct rolloff Mark mentioned.