Building electric roll down screen, here's some parts

[Bulldogger]

I am about to build an electric roll down screen. I found a motor from Torque Masters for 175.00. A tubular motor. It is a 65NM motor with crown and drive to fit roughly a 3.5 inch inside diameter aluminum tube. http://www.torquemastertubularmotors.com/id30.html I am using this company for an aluminum tube, http://www.globaltecheng.com/alutubing.htm You do not have to use as big of a tube or motor. I am using a large tube with a motor large enough in an attempt to eliminate waves. I will post back when I get the motor set up as to how noisy it is. The torquemaster motors are much more power full than what is need to raise the weight of screen material. I am hoping this makes for a quite motor. A comparable Somfy moter was around 600.00 with adapters at about 1/10 the power.

[Steve Scherrer]

I use a 10 foot metal closet rod and electric screwdriver for my DIY electric screen. Seems to work just fine...

[Bulldogger]

I use a 10 foot metal closet rod and electric screwdriver for my DIY electric screen. Seems to work just fine...
The closet rod would not work for me. I do not want any waves. Deflection appears too great on the rod. I think that is one source of the waves in you pics. I think you did somethng to reduce the waves? Waves are just completely unacceptable to me. I want absolutely no waves. Also my current screen has a Somfy motor that performs the job. The goal though is something much quieter. I have a screen that functions but my goal this time is much better performance. My current screen has a 2 inch 11 guage aluminum tube. That is still not giving me a completely wave free screen. From all I can gather, roller size, deflection and the attachment of the materail to the roller play the biggest role in the creation or reduction of waves. Steve, what material are using fo your screen? Would you please refresh me on what you did to reduce the waves? I remember your post but am a little foggy.

[Steve Scherrer]

I actually have gone through several iterations. I think I have found a material that works really well. It is a vinyl fabric (vinyl on one side, fabric backing). I recently painted the material, and have a simple fiberglass rod through the bottom. I really don't suffer from waves at all. What I am concerned about is horizontal banding of the screen caused by screen memory after the screen has been rolled up for an extended period of time. Anyway, here are fresh pictures taken tonight:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020496.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020497.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020500.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020503.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020506.jpg

[Bulldogger]

I. I really don't suffer from waves at all. What I am concerned about is horizontal banding of the screen caused by screen memory after the screen has been rolled up for an extended period of time. ]
You have done a great job and have made a successful screen. I think the bigger roller will cure the screen memory issue. Maybe the smaller roller is causing the material to be wound tighter on the roller and then increasing those memory effects? The material that I want to use needs the bigger roller to stay flat. I have spoken with the guy who sold me the screen that I have and has made several of these screens. He says that the bigger the roller, the flatter my material will be. I am using woven acoustically transparent materials. My motor is on the way. It is a two pole motor so I beieve that I can wire it to one of the Da-lite radio control set-ups and be able to retract the screen from a distance. I know the basic 12volt trigger module will work with this motor. I have wired a few Da-lite electric screens and they have the exact wiring as this motor. The problem with using a bigger roller is that you need a more powerful motor to rotate the roller.

[budwich]

You are probably right about the bigger roller being less susceptible to causing "memory" problems but the problem can also be associated with how you attach the material to the roller... the transistion has to be very "clean" with little or detectable different as the material rolls over top. In addition, it helps if you have a large section of border / margin that can wrap around the roller a "few times" before you get to your screen / viewing area. Also the type of material is important... vinyl based material tends "imprint" easier that fabric based materials. As for waves, I think that you can readily fashion your own tab tensioned system if you have seen a commercial one "up close". They are actually pretty straight forward. Since the material you are planning on using is woven it might be a bit stiffer that vinyl and as such you might get lucky and not need much help in avoiding waves with your "large roller" plan. If you can, I would leave a large amount of space / room at each end of your roller, just in case, you need some form of tensioning which could be added if there is room on the end of your roller.

[Steve Scherrer]

I left the screen up overnight, and when I retracted, there was slight memory toward the bottom of the screen--right about the place where the screen, if not full retracted, hangs slight down from the roller. Where the transition point between the rolled part of the screen, and the little bit that hangs down--this is where the memory was. However, within two minutes, the screen was perfectly flat again. The vinyl may be soft, but any memory quickly falls out.

[Bulldogger]

You are probably right about the bigger roller being less susceptible to causing "memory" problems but the problem can also be associated with how you attach the material to the roller... the transistion has to be very "clean" with little or detectable different as the material rolls over top. In addition, it helps if you have a large section of border / margin that can wrap around the roller a "few times" before you get to your screen / viewing area. Also the type of material is important... vinyl based material tends "imprint" easier that fabric based materials. As for waves, I think that you can readily fashion your own tab tensioned system if you have seen a commercial one "up close". They are actually pretty straight forward. Since the material you are planning on using is woven it might be a bit stiffer that vinyl and as such you might get lucky and not need much help in avoiding waves with your "large roller" plan. If you can, I would leave a large amount of space / room at each end of your roller, just in case, you need some form of tensioning which could be added if there is room on the end of your roller.
I am planning on a large roller that will leave me room to expand to a larger screen at some future point when I get a brighter projector. My current material is 100 inches wide. At some point I plan to go 120 inches so I am thinking maybe a 130 inch roller? As "stiff" and as large as the roller I plan to use is going to be, I do not think I will have any sag or memory issues. My samples and motor should be in on Monday. The current screen material was mounted onto the roller by a blind company. I am not sure they did a good enough job. I am trying to decide it I want to let them do it again or try it myself.

[Bulldogger]

Budwich what do you think is the best method of attaching the screen material to the roller? Also Steve, how did you attach yours?

[budwich]

I just used masking tape (2 plus inches wide). It gave me the opportunity to reposition it if I needed to without worrying about trying to get the glue material off. I used vinyl and was taped to cardboard based material (fabric tubes). On commercial screens, they appear to use some form of glue (vinyl on metal roller).... maybe a contact cement. I think the key is to get the material mounted as flush as possible, surface wise and then have a large amount of border / leader that can stay wound around the roller even when you have fully deployed your screen to its viewing position. This will give your tape some help in holding the material (like a "clamp") and also help with imprint reduction across any "seam surface" when there is a discontinuity between the metal and tape/ material. The edge that you are mounting to the roller has to be perfectly straight... a tough thing to achieve with vinyl as it easily stretches. Make sure it has been totally relaxed prior to mounting. I used two rolls during mounting. One taking up the entire screen in a loose but clean rollup fashion. The other was the final working roll. I ran a pencil line straight down the middle of the roller as a mount guide. The top border of material was then aligned with the mark and left to sit there for a while (relax). Then I ran a full length of 2 in masking tape along the whole "joint" trying not to pull or stretch either the tape or the material. It worked very well and on final rollup I did not get any "creep" where the material starts to move toward one end or the other. In general, I don't think there will be a problem as "gravity" and other forces will probably work in your favor (ie. it will tend to roll up fine). I think the biggest issue that you will come across is sag. Hopefully your use of a large diameter metal tube will help significant. Before you start your final mounting, put your tube across to pieces of wood (ie. one on each end) and check out the deflection (sag) when you put 5-10 lbs in the middle (this is probably the equivalent of a swath of screen material plus lower rail). If it sags too much (all relative as I don't know what the limits are), it is likely that you won't be readily successful in achieving a waveless screen without some help (ie. tensioning). But if the tube stays straight, then you may achieve your goals with woven / backed screen material which tends to be a bit stiffer than plain vinyl.

[Steve Scherrer]

I wish I could say I was as careful with mine as Bud, but I pretty much eyeballed it across the top of my metal rod. I had been using tape, but as I am using a 54inch wide material, I don't have a lot to play with. In order to get enough material showing for my screen, I pretty much have to extend it fully, which adds a lot of stress to where the screen is attached to the rod. I have gone from tape, which worked for a while, to permanent adhesive (am now working on my second permanent set adhesive. I then reinforced the attachment by adding screws every foot across the top of the metal rod. So far so good, and it is perfectly straight with no waves or other issues.

[Bulldogger]

But if the tube stays straight, then you may achieve your goals with woven / backed screen material which tends to be a bit stiffer than plain vinyl.
With the tube I plan to use, sag is not going to be an issue. The weight of the material is not going to be nearly enough to deflect 1/4 wall pipe. The tube I plan to use is designed for conveyor belts. I know it's over-kill but that's me, MR. Overkill. Tube should weight about 36 pounds. I plan to attach the material as you described. I know the blind companies use a double sided tape to attach the material.

[Bulldogger]

Going this route was easier for me. The motor has built in adjustments that will limit how high it will raise the screen and how low. I do not have to engineer any solutions this way. Just put the motor in the tube, mount the fabric on the tube, set the limits and wire the switch. I plan to wire a second motor for masking. I am going to have a second roller that will lower black masking to make the screen go from 16:9 to 2:35. Got my motor in a few mins. ago. This motor is over-kill. I would have saved 50.00 by going with a much lower powered motor but this motor is designed to go in the size tube that I want. Tiddler, I think we are at two opposite ends of the DIY electric screen thing. I am thinking masking and radio control. Da-lite pull downs are just too cheap for me to build a manual screen. I gave the last one I had away to a friend.

[Steve Scherrer]

Going this route was easier for me. The motor has built in adjustments that will limit how high it will raise the screen and how low. I do not have to engineer any solutions this way. Just put the motor in the tube, mount the fabric on the tube, set the limits and wire the switch. I plan to wire a second motor for masking. I am going to have a second roller that will lower black masking to make the screen go from 16:9 to 2:35. Got my motor in a few mins. ago. This motor is over-kill. I would have saved 50.00 by going with a much lower powered motor but this motor is designed to go in the size tube that I want. Tiddler, I think we are at two opposite ends of the DIY electric screen thing. I am thinking masking and radio control. Da-lite pull downs are just too cheap for me to build a manual screen. I gave the last one I had away to a friend.

Good idea--about the limits. THis is something I struggle with. Right now, with my valence, I have just enough screen to come down and fit the image perfectly in the black border. Any further down will roll the screen too far and damage where I have the screen attached to the rod. I think what I really need to do is bring the border down a few inches or so so that I don't have to walk this fine line every time the screen comes down.

[Bulldogger]

Wired the motor to the switch to make sure it worked and to see how noisy it was. Sounds about like the motor in the Da-lite Tensioned Electrol that I owned, not silent but not too objectionable. This motor is rather large compared to the small Somfy motor that my current screen uses. It is about 2.5 inches in diameter and 2 feet long. Weight is about 12 pounds. Rotation is also rather slow at about 15 revolutions per min. Should take about 1 min to raise 60 inches on 4 inch diameter tube? My tube samples have not gotten in yet. The motor did not come with a cap for the other end of the tube. I am purchasing a crown to put on that end from a Somfy dealer.

[Bulldogger]

Ok, I got my tube samples in. One tube is schedule 40 pipe and the other 16 gauge tubing. The difference between pipe and tubing is the way in which they are measured. Pipe is measured by the ID, inside diameter, where tube is measured by the OD, outside diameter. I stacked 4 pennies by the schedule 40 pipe to give an idea of wall thickness. The 16 gauge tube is about 1 penny thick. I believe the 16 gauge is too thin and would flex under the weight of screen material and the lower rod. The Schedule 40 pipe is heavy and over-kill but I am sure you would never have to worry about deflection causing waves. The Schedule 40 pipe though is much more expensive. I think that 11 gauge tube would likely be sufficient for a DIY electric screen and be a lot lighter in weight and cheaper as well. I am going forward with the heavy schedule 40 stuff because I believe there is likely very little chance that the pipe could be bent in transport. I am attaching two pictures of my tube samples. The large one is 4 inches outside diameter and 3.5 inches inside. The smaller tube is 16 gauge and about 3.35 inches inside diameter. In the second picture I have placed the motor between the tubes for reference. Also I have spoken with Somfy about some drives to go inside the pipe into which the end of the motor will make contact with to spin the tube. The parts are back ordered so this my delay my building of the screen. I may see what I can make myself to act as a drive. Really I was looking to use or modify manufactured parts to reduce labor time for this. You have to drill a small hole in the tube and then screw in a flat head screen into the drive and the crown to hold them in place. It is prety simple.

[Bulldogger]

I have been asked about the housing size of the screen I plan to make. Basically what I am planning is to have two rollers behind a valance mounted to the ceiling. One roller is going to have the material come over the the top. This roller will have the screen material. I plan to mount a second roller close to the first with the material rolling down at the back. This will allow the masking to extend very close to the screen. Krylon makes a paint called Ultra-Flat Camouflage that is sold at Ace hardwares and Walmart that features Fusion tech for painting plastics. Right now I am thinking of using the SMX material painted black for masking. I figure if my lower boarder is also painted black with the same paint, that the masking will when extended seem more like part of the screen. Attached is a pic of how I have my existing screen mounted behind a valance.

[budwich]

Hey Bulldogger.... it looks like your project is well on the way. Just a small comment about the "parts" that you are looking for to "connect" your motor to your roller. Perhaps you can "manufacturer" three pieces of hardwood that act as spacer to wedge between the rim of you motor and the walls of the roller... if I understand your picture correctly. With the three, you are likely to be successful in assuring that the motor will be centered. Just an idea. If you want to get really technical in terms of tolerance then you can make the spacers out of acrylic and gently heat them up to bend them to conform to the curve of your roller.

[Bulldogger]

The drive is only 6.95 from Somfy. So if it can work it will save me some trouble. I am ready to fabricate my own stuff. I am hoping, long shot, that I will be able to use pre-made parts to make this work. Likely I will have to modify at least some. I do not want to use wood because it can warp or the center can be worn out of round if I place a drive shaft in it. The larger pipe is heavy. I am having second thoughts about using it but likely will still go forward. I like the fact that there is no way that thick ass pipe is going to have deflection. The pipe weights about 3.15 pounds per foot. so that is going to give me a weight between say 32 pound and 38 pounds depending on how large I go. With the motor that is 50 pounds. Guess I'll have to call my two youngest brothers over to help me mount it :). Youngest is 6 foot 10 inches and 325 pound, next one is 6 foot, one and 305 pounds , basketball player and foot ball player. Guess you can tell which is which :). I think the baby boy can hold it on the ceiling without a ladder :D.

[Bulldogger]

Decided to go BIG. That for me means a 120 inch wide screen. I ordered a 12 foot pipe at a cost of 118.20 for the 3.5 ID or 4.0 OD pipe.Shipping is going to cost MORE than the pipe! I was given a ballpark shipping quote of about 150.00 which could be as low as 125.00 or as high as 175.00. For a 120 inch screen with 2 inches of black border on each side I need 124 inches of material. I figure that I will leave 6 inches on each side of the pipe in case I ever need to try and add some type of tensioning to the screen. When I get the pipe I will cut it to 136 inches. Budwich, what do you think? Not about the price :D ? I know ouch?! Might as well put that big motor to use. Shipping would have been a lot less had I not exceeded the UPS limit. Once you go over that you have to ship freight. Shipping on an 8 foot pipe would have been 34.00.

[Bulldogger]

I called back and ordered 12 feet of 2.25 guage tubing, 11 gauge. Price is 3.55 a foot. A motor for this should only be about 125.00. Because of how freigth works, it will not cost any more for shipping. If you wanted to build a screen with an 8 foot roller and this pipe, the cost would be around 200.00 for both pipe and motor. The pipe company only sells in whole feet.

[bruce can]

Hey Bulldogger there are some cheap alternatives to getting a good electric screen with out all that hassel .

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?scrnmotr&1169317908&class&3&4&
http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?scrnmotr&1163813343&class&3&4&

The bay has a lot of sub 200 hundred dollar options as well, some with infrared remotes included.

Bruce

[TeamSpeed]

Monoprice has some $125 electric screens, then if you paint them using the paint schemes from Tiddler in the other thread, you would have a sub-200 screen.

[budwich]

On my commercial tab tension draper (the replacement for my diy electric), the tabbing on each side takes up about 4-6 inch..... but you also have to allow for some black side border ... say 3 inches.... so you need about 7 in on each end .... so 120 inch viewing area plus 2*7 leaves you at about 134 in... I suspect you are about right in accommodating any future attempts at tab tensioning if you need "help". good luck... definitely a fun project.

[Bulldogger]

Team speed and bruce can. I am aware of the cheap screen options. That is not my goal here. I am building an acoustically transparent screen. A Screen Research one with masking cost over 9k in this size. That is what I am trying to duplicate. This is going in a theater with over 70K in just electronics. So in relative terms, this is a very cheap screen. This is really an attempt for me to have some fun with DIY. If it does not work, I'll trash the whole thing and buy a professional screen. I really enjoy making things though. Saving money is cool too but I will not let that interfere with my performance goals.

[Bulldogger]

150.00 shipping is really a lot. For me, it works because I am in the New Orleans area and many businesses are out of business. The company that I would normally have checked for pioe is certainly out of business. If I were trying to find a pipe or tube to use, I think I would check local pipe supply companies first. Sure would save a lot on shipping.

[Nilk29]

Bulldogger,

Why not just buy these cheap electric screens; replace the screen material with acoustically transparent screen material? I think everyone would love the idea of buying cheap screen and then supercharging it with different material just like tiddler has proved that you can paint those. :)

TY

[budwich]

I think as bulldogger mentioned, the cheap screens are not just a screen material issue (in his a case non acoustic transparent) but also the size of the roller. In essence, all he would be getting would be a motor and one that wouldn't necessarily fit properly in a large diameter roller. So I don't think a cheap screen "retrofit" is what he is looking for.

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger,

Why not just buy these cheap electric screens; replace the screen material with acoustically transparent screen material? I think everyone would love the idea of buying cheap screen and then supercharging it with different material just like tiddler has proved that you can paint those. :)

TY
What Budwich said. Also, with the cheaper screen I am going to get a smaller roller that means WAVES. That's the main issue with those screens. I am planning a 120 wide screen with masking. If I put a weaved non-tension material on that small roller, it will 100% sag in the middle. So the solution is a larger roller. With the larger roller, the motor in the cheap screen will not be able to turn the roller long term. I need about 65 foot pounds. I doubt the cheaper screen motor is doing over 12 foot pounds. I would just burn up the motor even if it worked. One thing that the cheap screen have in common are WAVEs and I am avoiding that like the plague. If the roller does not deflect, then the SMX720 material will not need to be tensioned. That is going to solve a lot of problems. Tiddler has what you are talking about covered, throughly. I am doing something else. If my plan goes correctly, I'll spend double the money but spend 0% in time trying to solve the wave issues . I know DIY is usually to save money. My main reason for doing this is because the screen that I want to buy does not exist. A 1.2 gain acoustically transparent electric screen. Sandman is working on one and will produce a solution. I just decided I wanted one like yesterday :) I am trying to make the point which I do not seem to be making well :D that cheap is not what this is about. Steve already did that one. Electric screw driver and a closet rod with no waves for less than 100 bucks!

[Nilk29]

Budwich/Bulldogger,

Thanks for clarification! I didn’t realize that the tensioning/wave is major issue for you folks.

Nilk29

[Bulldogger]

Nilk29 , the screen that I am currently using was cheap to make. Three hundred bucks plus the screen material. A blind company mounted it to a 2 inch roller for me and I have remote control. So, I have tried to go the cheaper route and it did not work :( . I am upgrading my projector to the JVC RS1 and what was acceptable for me before will not be with the increased picture quality. This is an attempt to make a screen with no compromises. I posted here to bounce some ideas off the guys who have done this before. One AVSer even knows how to make an optical sensor for the screen that I am making. Lots of guys with great ideas around here :) ! My goal here is to make a screen with parts readily available that need little modification so that anyone can copy this screen without a lot of fabrication. If the drives from Somfy work out, then this is just going to be a matter of buying the parts and putting the whole thing together. I have been bouncing ideas off one of the guys at the pipe supply company for a couple of weeks. The tubular motor company owner has also helped as best as he can. He really does not know anything about home theater but does not how to implement his motors.

[Bulldogger]

I found an Aluminum pipe supply here in New Orleans. FREE Delivery and same price as internet. Only draw back is they only sell in min. 20 foot sticks. Still cheaper than freight shipping for total cost.

[Bulldogger]

Local pipe supply cut aluminum pipe to 138 inches for me. I took it with me after they cut it. Because of the thickness of this pipe, deflection is not going to be an issue. Here are a couple of picks. Trying to see if it is going to be about the right size. Moved level across pipe. Completely level. I think it would require some MAJOR force to bend this pipe.

[Nilk29]

:) I am sure you are very close to the "dream"

[Bulldogger]

I am just waiting for the drives from Somfy now to go inside the pipe. I can take the smaller pipe sample that I purchased and use it to make the inside diameter of the larger pipe match my motor. This would be simple to do but more expensive for anyone else but not for me since I already have the pipe. Challenge would be then finding an end cap for the other end. I am considering trying to use the pipe sample to make a mold that could produce an end cap. Most likely I will just wait for the Somfy parts. They are supposed to fit the pipe size I have.

[mdwags]

Local pipe supply cut aluminum pipe to 138 inches for me. I took it with me after they cut it. Because of the thickness of this pipe, deflection is not going to be an issue. Here are a couple of picks. Trying to see if it is going to be about the right size. Moved level across pipe. Completely level. I think it would require some MAJOR force to bend this pipe.

Bulldogger, do you have specifications for your pipe? What is the outside diameter? Wall thickness (or guage)?

I'd like to do something similar but was thinking of a 2.5" pipe (maybe 3"). I'm trying to determine the wall thickness that is required to be stiff enough at 130" width. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

[Bulldogger]

My pipe is schedule 40, 3.5 inch pipe. It has an outside diameter or 4 inches and 3.5 for the inside. This is over-kill. After going to an Aluminum supply company and seeing schedule 40 2.5 pipe, I believe that is all you will need. The supply company here in New Orleans charges about 130.00 for a 20 foot 2.5 schedule 40 pipe. I am very sure that would work for a 130 inch width. Stick with Schedule 40 pipe and you will not have to worry about stiffness. Schedule 40 is about .25 inches thick. I looked at 11 guage tubing. It looks thick enough but I could see it bending. Difference between pipe and tube is the way they are measured. Pipe is measured by inside diameter and tube by outside.

[Bulldogger]

mdwags, if you go with the 2.5 pipe and are looking at the Torque master motors on the link I posted. You can go with the 35nm or 40nm and save money and weight. At 128.00 that's not bad.

[Bulldogger]

I have parts ordered from Somfy that should fit my pipe. They are back ordered so I decided to experiment with some other methods of creating a way for the pipe to be able to rotate on the end opposite the motor. The motor end will spin the pipe and has a method to attach it to whatever housing I build. Seems like a simple solution would be to use a hard rubber wheel or a bearing designed exactly for such a purpose. This company was very cheap. Wheels less than 2.00. I ordered three different wheels to try in my pipe. Two have an ID, inside diameter of 3/8 of an inch and two have an ID of 1/2. I was looking at metal rods to stick through them to serve as an axle at Home Depot. It should be simple to slide these wheels into the pipe, drill a hole into the pipe to the wheels, screw into the wheels with a metal screw to secure them to the pipe and then be able to slide the axel into the hole in the wheels. I think I should connect the wheels to the metal rod first. Somfy makes parts designed just for this purpose but I'll give this a try as well. http://www.casters-online.com/ckshop.php?item=598&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.casters-online.com%2Fckshop.php%3Fpage%3D1%26category%3D12 http://www.casters-online.com/ckshop.php?item=270&ret=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.casters-online.com%2Fckshop.php%3Fpage%3D1%26category%3D12 these wheels have bearing in the middle. One is rated fro 700 pound so should be easily able to work. Here's all of the wheels this company sells http://www.casters-online.com/ckshop.php?category=12

[mdwags]

Thanks Bulldogger.

Regarding axles and such, i was thinking of using rollerblade wheels that come close to matching the I.D. of the pipe. They have great bearings and should take the load. You may have found something even better.

I have another question for you regarding the screen material itself. I picked up some awning material on eBay that is 5% transparent. I'm looking to make an acoustically-transparent (well, i know it won't be absolutely transparent) screen with it. However, i don't know how i'm gonna do the border. I was thinking of sewing about 6" of black fabric of some sort around the entire perimeter. What do you think? Will i get wrinkles if sewing two dis-similar fabrics?

Thanks.

[Bulldogger]

If the thickness is different, it could cause problems. Is that the same material being discussed on audible's thread? Why not just paint the border on as the professional companies do? Krylon makes a paint for plastics. They make this paint in Camouflage which has the fusion technology as they call it for plastics. I have tried it. It works well and is extremely black. I have seen some guys comment about, "sealing" the edges of the masking tape before you paint. That is taking a brush and a small amount of paint and lightly brushing the edge of the tape and allowing it to dry. This acts as a barrier to keep the paint from seeping under the tape.

[Bulldogger]

mdwags, if you do not want to engineer an axle on the end of your tube opposite the motor, you can buy a Somfy axle. They have axles designed to fit a 50mm tube. That's about 2 inches inside diameter which would be what a 2.5 inch schedule 40 pipe would have. Besides the wheels I am trying a Heavy Duty end cap, part number 609256 with two drives that will connect to that axel, part 6061320. There is also a bracket to connect to this end cap, idler bracket 6080257. If you download the catalog and look at the last couple of pages, there is an index that will tell you where to find each part. The catalog is old but the part numbers are good. www.somfy.com/nam/download.cfm?file_id=16017 Look at page 48 and you will see some end caps to fit the size tubes you are considering. I doubt any of these parts are over 10.00. May take some time to get some of them though. I have the wheels on the way. I am going to check those out too and see which works best. At least a couple more weeks before I get my Somfy parts.

[Bulldogger]

Update. All of my parts but one shipped via UPS today. I should have them by Monday, Jan. 22. I'll post detailed pics of them and what they are. In addition, I'll post pics of the screen as each stage of construction. I am planning on attaching the screen material with double sided tape. Anyone have suggestion on an alternative method?

[Steve Kinkead]

I wonder if double-sided tape will adhere to the screen material. You could use the tape initially to verify the screen is aligned properly on the roller, then come back and add a fine bead of glue from a hot glue gun.

I'm also building a roll-down screen based on your experiences, so I'm looking forward to your posts.

[Bulldogger]

I know that double sided tape is what the blind companies use. This company has not gotten back with me http://www.tapes2.com/industrial.htm. I believe they may have something I can use. Hot glue should work. I'll try to contact this company tommorrow and see if they can give any insight.

[Steve Kinkead]

Bulldogger,
Which Somfy motor did you decided to go with? Any reason why you picked Somfy instead of the Torque Master?

Can you verify the link to the Torque Master web site you mentioned in your 1st post? I can not reach their site and Google shows a different url that does not work either. How strange.

I've tried these urls:
http://torquemastertubularmotors.com
http://www.torquemastertubularmotors.com

Thanks.

[Steve Kinkead]

I'm wondering about masking for 1.66:1 and 2.35:1 movies. Do the Somfy motors have only 1 programmable stop which you would set to fully extend the screen for a 1.66:1 film? Then, if the film is 2.35:1 you would manually retract the screen a little until it is properly masked at the bottom? The top mask position would be programmed into the 2nd motor that controls the black overlay.

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger,
Which Somfy motor did you decided to go with? Any reason why you picked Somfy instead of the Torque Master?

Can you verify the link to the Torque Master web site you mentioned in your 1st post? I can not reach their site and Google shows a different url that does not work either. How strange.

I've tried these urls:
http://torquemastertubularmotors.com
http://www.torquemastertubularmotors.com

Thanks.
Those urls are correct. Strange, I do not know what happened to the guy. I am using one of his motors. The Somfy parts are going to have to be modified a bit to work with my motor. No big deal, just have to drill mounting holes in the bracket to match up with the ones on the motor. Somfy makes many motors. One strong enough for my application with built in remote control was about 550.00.

[Bulldogger]

I'm wondering about masking for 1.66:1 and 2.35:1 movies. Do the Somfy motors have only 1 programmable stop which you would set to fully extend the screen for a 1.66:1 film? Then, if the film is 2.35:1 you would manually retract the screen a little until it is properly masked at the bottom? The top mask position would be programmed into the 2nd motor that controls the black overlay.
Yes the Somfy motors have programmable stops. You can also stop the screen at any point or raise it to any point. The motor control I am using will just lower and drop the screen to preset limits.

[Bulldogger]

Here are most of the parts that I need. I recieved brackets that will attach to the motor and the valance that I plan to build as well as to the opposited end from the motor. I have an axle that will allow the roller to spin. The next thing I have to do is drill holes in the pipe and then use self-drilling screws to secure the axle inside the tube and to secure the end of the motor and the drive end of the motor to the pipe. I have attached some photos.

[Bulldogger]

Here's a pic of the axle before both drives were attached. The last part I need which should arrive in a day or so is a part with a pin in it that attaches to the axle and allows it to attach to the bracket.

[Bulldogger]

Here's some more pics of the axle. I plan to mount this axle inside my tube today. Looks like I will have to make some slight modifications, drilling holes, into the bracket to get the motor end to attach and be at the same distance from the bracket as the end opposite from the motor.

[Bulldogger]

I wonder if double-sided tape will adhere to the screen material. You could use the tape initially to verify the screen is aligned properly on the roller, then come back and add a fine bead of glue from a hot glue gun.

I'm also building a roll-down screen based on your experiences, so I'm looking forward to your posts.
The tape company is sending me some samples. Finally spoke with a person Iwho assures me that that have a thin tape quite capable of holding my screen material and aluminum bar. The round aluminum bar weights .9 pounds per foot. My bar is cut to just a little under 12 feet. The screen material should weight less than 20 pounds for sure likey more like 10 pounds max. I am sure that there are much cheaper solutions than using an aluminum bar. Really I think a galvanized pipe would be stiffer and heavier. The bar should work but it does have a fair amount of flex. Price for 1 inch diameter, 12 foot aluminum bar was 50.00! I think that I should have just purchased some galvanized pipe. Here in the New Orleans area, Home Depot and most of the hardware stores are very busy. Just could not get myself to go back through a line or wait in a line to have pipe cut.

[camarillo_cinema]

I used two pieces of wood for my load bar, measuring 1.5 inches x 0.5 inches x 138 inches. You can drill clearance holes thru the back piece, and with the screen material in the middle, screw the "sandwich" together with wood screws.

For best results, cover the front piece with black velvet or some other light-absorbing material.

Don

[camarillo_cinema]

I may add that my load bar cost me a whopping $5.00.

Don

[Steve Kinkead]

How will you attach the 1" aluminum bar to the bottom of the screen? One solution is to fold over 1 or 2 inches of screen fabric and tape it together to form a sling that the aluminum rod can slide into. An advantage to using a sling is: (1) you can easily increase the size of the bar if you need more weight and (2) there is less chance of the fabric being stretched which might happen if taped directly to the aluminum rod.

I'm also wondering about the seams on left and right sides of the screen. Since the SmX fabric is woven, will it become frayed over time? Or, are the edges factory sealed so individual strands will not come loose?

[camarillo_cinema]

Steve-
The SmX material is a PVC - not fabric. I'm using it on my 138 inch retractable, and it is just awesome.

Don

[RonX]

Hello
Is there any other place where I can buy those motors?
Thanks

[Steve Kinkead]

Steve-
The SmX material is a PVC - not fabric. I'm using it on my 138 inch retractable, and it is just awesome.

Don

The magnified photos on the SmX web site mention it being "weaved" so I assumed it could unweave. :)
http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

Don, have you had any problems with moire patterns? The Smx web site recommends you rotate the SmX material to reduce the chance of moire, but this would involve a lot of intricate cutting and I just can't see doing this on a roll down screen.

Also, any problems with "curling" on the edges of your screen?

Steve

[Steve Kinkead]

Hello
Is there any other place where I can buy those motors?
Thanks

I bought my Somfy motor (LT50 550R2 RTS CMO) on Ebay for $90 from a liquidation store. Now I need to find a Somfy radio transmitter to control it.

There is a guy selling a similar motor on Ebay but it is not wireless.
Search for "SOMFY BED MOTOR 540R2"

[Steve Kinkead]

I stumbled on a Chinese tubular motor company called Safy while searching for info Somfy motors.

http://www.safymotor.com/products2-e.htm

Their American distributor is:
http://safyusa.com/

Don't know anything else about them.

Steve

[camarillo_cinema]

Steve-
The "weave" is because of the 10% transparency in the material - hence it is AT.

Interesting link on the motor. I'm using my own design with a DC gearmotor pulley and belt system. Presets allow it to stop at 1.77 or 2.35 positions.

I don't notice the moire, but I couldn't fit the material to the roller any other way. I use a 2 inch aluminum schedule 40 pipe.

I have a small amount of curling, but I intend to mask that off.

Don

[Bulldogger]

How will you attach the 1" aluminum bar to the bottom of the screen? One solution is to fold over 1 or 2 inches of screen fabric and tape it together to form a sling that the aluminum rod can slide into. An advantage to using a sling is: (1) you can easily increase the size of the bar if you need more weight and (2) there is less chance of the fabric being stretched which might happen if taped directly to the aluminum rod.

I'm also wondering about the seams on left and right sides of the screen. Since the SmX fabric is woven, will it become frayed over time? Or, are the edges factory sealed so individual strands will not come loose?
Yes, I plan to use the tape to form a sling into which I can slide the bar. The bar is 11 pounds or so and that should be plenty heavy.

[Bulldogger]

I bought my Somfy motor (LT50 550R2 RTS CMO) on Ebay for $90 from a liquidation store. Now I need to find a Somfy radio transmitter to control it.

There is a guy selling a similar motor on Ebay but it is not wireless.
Search for "SOMFY BED MOTOR 540R2"
The parts I am using should be a direct fit with a Somfy motor. Using a Somfy motor would be even better.

[Bulldogger]

Steve-
The "weave" is because of the 10% transparency in the material - hence it is AT.

Interesting link on the motor. I'm using my own design with a DC gearmotor pulley and belt system. Presets allow it to stop at 1.77 or 2.35 positions.

I don't notice the moire, but I couldn't fit the material to the roller any other way. I use a 2 inch aluminum schedule 40 pipe.

I have a small amount of curling, but I intend to mask that off.

Don
I believe you are the site I referenced for masking solutions. Do you have any plans to sell your electric screen? Also do you have any pictures?

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-

Yes, I may plan to offer a kit for an electric screen. Rollers tend to be long and heavy, so that would probably be best procurred locally from your favorite metal supply shop. I like the way mine turned out, and has an integrated masking roller.

It is IR controlled, and has presets. I did build a box that interfaces with the trigger out on my PJ, so that when the PJ powers up, it automatically send an IR command to drop the screen. When the PJ powers down (after the fan stops), a IR command is sent to retract the screen.

At this point, I do not know what pricepoint the market will bear. Keep in mind this is a partial DIY, which is what this section is all about.

I need to update the website first!

Best-
Don

[Bulldogger]

Cool. I would like to see how you did the masking. The intention of my starting this thread was to solicite help and to help ohters with my experiences. There are quite a few guys watching this thread. My screen should be completed soon. I am trying to decide on the screen material. What about waves? Do you have any waves?

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-

Yes, I do have waves, but I think that is because of the load bar not being heavy enough. Also, as I explained in a previous post, the load bar is a "sandwhich" made up of two MDF pieces, one on each side of the material. I thought this would be the easiest way to add a load bar.

If you for some reason do not make sure this is screwed together correctly (ie material being skewed), then you will have waves in the material.

I will be taking a picture shortly of my setup. The masking roller sits just below the screen roller. Since we're not talking about alot of material to roll up here, this roller is 1.25 inches in diameter.

I'm setting up a curtain system so that when the screen drops, it automatically closes the curtains (I have windows behind the screen).

BTW, I thought at first the screen size was gonna be waaay too big. The SmX material made my Panny come alive! Seating distance is about 15 feet. No problems with SDE. The experience is awesome. Best of all, it rolls up out of the way when done watching.

I have since canceled my Match.com membership and signed up for Blockbuster. ;)

Don

[Bulldogger]

Ahh, see and you wanted to make fun of my 50.00 metal bar:). 50.00 is too much but I wanted to stick with metal to insure that it was heavy enough . Sandman's stuff is a great screen material. My objective here was to find readily available parts so that anyone could be able to assemble a screen, namely me:D, and not have to wait for any specific solutions to be developed. I should be finished very soon. Waiting for the double sided tape samples and then I have to decided on which material to use. I would like to have my screen finished before the JVC RS1 ships. OH, match.com :D. I met this beautiful girl from China, a Radio Disk Jockey, who came over from China and spent 2 weeks with me. 4 foot 10, 99 pounds with 34DD, WOW. Now I am married but not from the internet.

[Steve Kinkead]

Bulldogger,
When you get a chance can you list the p/n's for your axil and L-shaped mounting brackets?
Did you purchase them direct from Somfy?

My Somfy motor arrived today and I'm trying to figure out the mounting hardware I'll need. The catalog has so many options I'm having a hard time figuring out how to proceed. May be time to give Somfy tech support a call.

Steve

[Steve Kinkead]

I am just waiting for the drives from Somfy now to go inside the pipe. I can take the smaller pipe sample that I purchased and use it to make the inside diameter of the larger pipe match my motor. This would be simple to do but more expensive for anyone else but not for me since I already have the pipe.

Schedule 40 PVC is a cheaper solution to matching the motor to the large diameter pipe. All Schedule 40 pipe has the same dimensions regardless of material... aluminum, PVC, etc. I'm going to Home Depot today to see what diameter PVC pipe they have available.

Sch 40 PVC Dimensions: http://www.harvel.com/tech-specs-pvc-pipe-40.asp

A 36" length of 2" diameter sch40 aluminum pipe would cost me $30 at the local metal supply company. Ouch!

Steve

[Steve Kinkead]

Challenge would be then finding an end cap for the other end. I am considering trying to use the pipe sample to make a mold that could produce an end cap. Most likely I will just wait for the Somfy parts. They are supposed to fit the pipe size I have.

Bulldogger,
Do you still need an end cap? Or, are you now using the axial assembly shown in your photos?

[Steve Kinkead]

I compared various size aluminum tubes at the local metal supply store. I layed each pipe across 2 saw horses and the applied about 5 pounds of pressure to the center of the pipe to see how much it would deflect. Since the weight of the screen fabric will be distributed across the length of the pipe, the deflection will probably me much less than what I caused by pressing with my hand.

The store had tubes of all sizes and with your choice of wall thickness... 1/4" or 1/8".
I saw a lot of defection when with all the tubes having 1/8" wall thickness. I tried 2", 2.5", and 3".

Next, I compared the same diameter tubes having 1/4" walls. This is thicker than schedule 40 pipe for all diameters less than 5". So this is pretty strong stuff. I still saw some deflection in the 2.5" tube, but the 3" tube was pretty stiff. Again, I was probably pushing a little too hard, so probably the 2.5 would work just fine.

I also found a 4" diameter tube with 1/8" thick walls. Man, this stuff was really stiff. I could cause no deflection when applying pressure with my hand.
This tube cost the same as the 3" pipe with a 1/4" wall. And I would guess they both weigh about the same. I'd really like to use this 4" tube for my screen, but I may have problems matching an axial and a motor to this jumbo tube.

Cost for a 12 ft length of 4" diameter tube was $110.

Steve

[Steve Kinkead]

Speaking of on-line dating... I've been exchanging letters with 3 lovely ladies from China for a few weeks now and will be traveling to China to see each of them at the end of the month. I'm 50 and they are between 38 and 41. I've turned down many offers from very pretty 30 year olds. The Chinese ladies are mostly college educated and smart, but still very family oriented.

http://www.chnlove.com
http://www.chineselovelinks.com
http://www.blossoms.com

Now back to our regularly scheduled screen thread. :)

[Bulldogger]

Schedule 40 PVC is a cheaper solution to matching the motor to the large diameter pipe. All Schedule 40 pipe has the same dimensions regardless of material... aluminum, PVC, etc. I'm going to Home Depot today to see what diameter PVC pipe they have available.

Sch 40 PVC Dimensions: http://www.harvel.com/tech-specs-pvc-pipe-40.asp

A 36" length of 2" diameter sch40 aluminum pipe would cost me $30 at the local metal supply company. Ouch!

Steve
Plastic is going to flex, Do not use plastic. Your screen may have terrible waves.

[Bulldogger]

Speaking of on-line dating... I've been exchanging letters with 3 lovely ladies from China for a few weeks now and will be traveling to China to see each of them at the end of the month. I'm 50 and they are between 38 and 41. I've turned down many offers from very pretty 30 year olds. The Chinese ladies are mostly college educated and smart, but still very family oriented.

http://www.chnlove.com
http://www.chineselovelinks.com
http://www.blossoms.com

Now back to our regularly scheduled screen thread. :)
Good man! Good luck!

[Steve Kinkead]

Plastic is going to flex, Do not use plastic. Your screen may have terrible waves.
The PVC would only be used as a spacer between the 1.5"diameter motor and the 3" or 3.5" diameter aluminum pipe.

I talked to Somfy tech support today and they have crown and drive wheels for my motor that will fit a 2.5" diameter pipe. But, I'll probably use a 3" sch40 aluminum pipe for my screen. So, a 3' length of 2.5" PVC pipe should work as spacer between the motor and aluminum pipe.

These tubular motors are new to me, so if I'm way off base please let me know.

Steve

[Steve Kinkead]

Bulldogger,
What retailer did you buy your Somfy brackets and axial from?

Steve

[Bulldogger]

oQUOTE=Steve Kinkead]Bulldogger,
When you get a chance can you list the p/n's for your axil and L-shaped mounting brackets?
Did you purchase them direct from Somfy?

My Somfy motor arrived today and I'm trying to figure out the mounting hardware I'll need. The catalog has so many options I'm having a hard time figuring out how to proceed. May be time to give Somfy tech support a call.

Steve[/QUOTE]
Ok the brackets are part numbers 6070504 and 6070506. One bracket comes with a universal motor mount, the other is just the plan bracket. The axle is called an idler end cap and the part number for that is 6090256. You have to pick the size drive based upon your pipe size inside diameter. The size pipe I used was 3.5 shecdule 40 which is about 3.5 inside diameter. I used two 89 mm drives to go on the Idler end cap or what I am calling the axle. The part numbers for those are 6061320. Now to attach the idler end cap, or axle as I am calling it to the bracket, you will need a part called the idler end cap holder. That part is 6080257. There is a bracket that comes with the holder already built it. It is not adjustable so I chose to buy the parts separately. If you call Somfy and tell them what you are trying to do, they can tell you exactly what parts to use. I bought my parts from a Somfy dealer. For the moter end, the Somfy parts would not work. I have to use the parts that came with the motor. Also I have to drill the holes in the motor mount that came with my motor to match up to the holes on the Somfy bracket. Send me a pm, if you are still confused and we can talk by phone.

[Bulldogger]

If you go to the link for the Somfy catalog that I posted earlier in the thread, look at the catalog. Go to the back page pages and there is an index of where to find the parts in the catalog so you can see what they look like.

[Steve Kinkead]

Thanks, this really helps. You should be on Monster Garage. :)

The Somfy tech gave me the parts for my LT50 RTS CMO motor mount (6070504 and 6250702). Then, all I need are the 3.5" drive and crown for the LT50 motor (6061359).

So, is there any need for your 2.5" and 3" sch40 pipe samples? Are you using those because your motor drive and crown are too small for your 3.5" pipe?

Steve

[Bulldogger]

So, is there any need for your 2.5" and 3" sch40 pipe samples? Are you using those because your motor drive and crown are too small for your 3.5" pipe?

Steve
The 89mm drives translate to about 3.5 inches which is the ABOUT the inside diameter or a 3.5 sch40 pipe. Still a little bit of play. I am using the 3.5 ,16 gauge, aluminum TUBING as a spacer. The difference between pipe and tubing is that tubing is measured by the outside diameter and pipe is measured from the inside diameter. A 3.5 sch40 pipe is actually 4 inches outside diameter but he 3.5 inside matches the 3.5 aluminum tubing perfectly. Using the tubing makes the drives fit almost perfectly. I wanted as tight a fit as possible so that the pipe does not wobble when it spins. I am attaching some pics. The first pic is of the drives on the "idler end cap" or axle as I am calling it inside the 16 gauge 3.5 aluminum tubing. The second is all that placed inside my 3.5 Sch40 pipe. The fit is pretty precise.

[Bulldogger]

Here's another pic of the end opposite the motor, with the idler installed inside my pipe. I had to use a 3/16 drill bit to make pilot holes. Only drill through the pipe and piece of tubing used as spacer. The screws I chose are #10, one inch self drilling screws. I chose to buy stainless steel screws because I knew that they would be harder than the zinc screws and I did not want the screws to have trouble penetrating the hard material that the drives are made of. Picked up the screws from Lowes. Also you will need a nut driver 5/16 to screw the screws through the pipe and tubing and into the drive. I only screwed the outside drive according to the instructions included with the idler end cap or axle. The inside drive had a little play and is not screw in. I have some extra pipe that I am going to experiment with. Attaching the motor is slightly more complicated. Whereas the idler end can be screwed with the machine screws, the end of the motor where the drive will attach to the pipe is going to be under the screen material when the fabric is rolled onto the pipe. This means that I am going to have to drill a larger hole at the part of the pipe where the motor drive attaches and use a screw with a tapered head so that the screw can mount with the head below the plane of the pipe surface. I attached a pic of the idler end, opposite motor end parts attached to the pipe.

[Nilk29]

Bulldogger,

Could you please post parts list with prices and sources?

Thanks

[Bulldogger]

Give me another day or so Nilk29 and I'll summarize. All the parts I used are in the thread though, you have to dig it out. I will though provide a summary. You can get the parts from any Somfy dealer. They can recommend one in your area. I am hesitant to bombard my source with guys looking to mount parts to all different size pipes. I need to clear that with him first. He's just a small dealer and selling 12.00 parts to a ton of confused guys may be to much for him to deal with and not worth his time. If I were in business, it would not be worth my time.Let Somfy handle that by recommending dealers. Better to use a lot of different Somfy dealers I believe. The last thing I have to do is mount the motor. I am going to do that and post the drill bit size I used and size screws. That should really be a wrap as far as parts go. The only thing left to do will be to build a valance to attach the whole thing to and attach the motor control. Oh and I am waiting for those double sided tape samples. I might as well wrap this up and will try to by the end of the week. Then I have to decide on a screen material. It is almost certainly going to be Sandman's stuff.

[Nilk29]

Bulldogger,

I appreciate your time and efforts taken for this project. By no means, I wanted you to share/post the “dealerships” and personal contacts. I just wanted to get a general idea about part manufacturer like Somfy, and etc. and pricing of them.

Thanks

[Bulldogger]

I e-mailed my guy and will see what he says. He may be glad to sell the parts. I just wanted to ask him first. The parts are inexpensive but a bit confusing which is why I sent him an e-mail to see what he says. Also do not want to break any rules. 6080257 - Qty: 1 Cost: $11
6090256 - Qty: 1 Cost: $54
6061320 - Qty: 2 Cost: $17.92 ea. = $35.84
6070504 - Qty: 1 Cost: $9.92
6070506 - Qty: 1 Cost: $9.65

Here are the parts and prices I used. the most expensive part the $54 one was the idler end cap or axle that the two drives, 6061320, go on. The 6070504 and 6070506 are those brackets that you see in my picture. One comes with a universal motor mount that turns out will work with my motor. That means I do not have to do any drilling to try to make something work. The crown I used is the one that came with the motor. You would also need a crown in addition to these parts. I know you are not rushing me:) It is me, rushing me. I am ready to try to wrap this up. I bought wood to make a valence to attach to the ceiling which I then am going to mount the brackets to and then the roller to the brackets. That's my bit of work for today. Hey feel free to ask any questions. Many guys have sent me suggestions and are helping out with this. I think that a lot of us would like a DIY electric screen to put an acoustically transparent material on. Make any suggestions if you think I could do something a better way. This is of course my first attempt and I am taking it one step at time.

[Steve Kinkead]

Unlike Bulldogger, I'm using a Somfy motor. It is the LT50, 550R2 RTS CMO (it has a RF controller). I'm using the same idler and brackets as Bulldogger, but my motor drive wheel and crown are different. Here is my Somfy parts list for a LT50 motor with a 3.5" sch40 pipe:

Idler components:
6070506 Angle plate
6090256 Idler end cap (axil)
6061320 89mm drives for idler end cap (x2)
6080257 Idler end cap holder

Motor components:
6070504 Angle plate w/ universal motor bracket
6250702 CMO motor bracket
6061359 3.5” round LT50 crown and drive set

Somfy gave me a retailer in San Diego who will order the parts for me. He estimates 2 to 3 weeks delivery. PM me if you are interested in the retailer's name.

[Bulldogger]

I can sell the parts but it is with the understanding that they are all
customs orders and the customer is responsible for specifying the parts. We
do not work with these Somfy items so we have limited knowledge of them. We
can get any Somfy part specified.


Thanks,
Ken Thibault
www.AV-Outlet.com
Home Theater Audio and Video
Disputanta, VA 23842
1-877-271-5398

Sales@av-outlet.com

Here's what my source said.

[Nilk29]

Steve, Bulldogger

Many thanks for your part list and address. It seems that this dealer (av-outlet) is close to me. :)

I am currently using “EastPorters” electric screen (106') from first wave. For my next upgrade, I am debating between 3 options,
1. DIY with SMX
2. Supercharge EastPorters screen with SMX
3. fnEasy (Tiddler paint) method. This is last option as I am not good with paint.

Once I see your implementations, I will jump in with my plan.

You might want to give a shot at these LED lights from Ikea. I mounted 2 sets in series on front portion of my EP screen. These can be linked in a series making it a cool light strip like neon.

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15579&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=11158&langId=-1&chosenPartNumber=90098177

[Steve Kinkead]

Steve, Bulldogger

You might want to give a shot at these LED lights from Ikea. I mounted 2 sets in series on front portion of my EP screen. These can be linked in a series making it a cool light strip like neon.



Do you have any photos? I can't visualize how you mount these lights on a roll down screen.

[Bulldogger]

Steve, looks like I am going to use this to control my motor http://store.cousinsvideo.com/82436.html It is a dual motor control. I want to get my screen up and see if it is going to work OK without the need to be tensioned first. Then I need to set-up a separate roller for the masking. The remote on this unit controls the screen motor if you push it once. Push it twice on either the up or down button and it lowers or raises the masking. I still have not decided if I want to mask the top to go from a 16:9 screen to a 2:35 screen. My second option is to just build a second screen that would lower behind the first for the different aspect ratios. I could then use the limit switch to have each screen lower to the correct position. Still trying to work this out. Think I need to actually get the first screen up and working before I figure out the masking.

[Bulldogger]

Looks like guy I bought my motor from has a new website, http://home.earthlink.net/~shuttermotor/id13.html Spoke with him and he says he can supply low cost motors. Ebay seems to offer some control options. Single motor remote controls for about 75.00. Do a seach for Dalite and the motor controls will come up.

[coastalb55]

Hi Bulldogger,

I saw that you also posted over at the SMX forum on the electric screen thread. Now that it seems that Sandman has put that on the back burner for now, I'm very interested in seeing how your set up works out for you. So far, it looks quite promising.

Looking forward to updates.

Andy

[RonX]

How about item 3028 in monoprice website?

It's cheap but I don't know if it could be compatible with somfy or torquemaster motors.

Anyone?

[Bulldogger]

Hi Bulldogger,

I saw that you also posted over at the SMX forum on the electric screen thread. Now that it seems that Sandman has put that on the back burner for now, I'm very interested in seeing how your set up works out for you. So far, it looks quite promising.

Looking forward to updates.

Andy
Having the Somfy parts to work with really simplifies things. It is a matter of picking the right parts and installing them with the right pipe. Somfy of course is accustomed to recommending their parts and can do so over the phone. Hopefully, by the time I am finished anyone can make an electric roll down screen. If you check, you may find that electric roll down screens are a small percentage of the market which might not lead a company to be highly motivated to develope one right away ;). My screen is likely going to be 120 wide or 116 at the min. Shipping a screen this large has to go freight. That's expensive. Screens with masking are even more expensive. When I began to look at shipping cost, and parts cost alone, it became clear that an electric screen as good as Sandman is developing might not be exactly in high demand by the DIY crowd that he attracts.Parts alone are going to approach 1000.00 to 1500 depending on motor with screen material. Currently marketed commericial screen are mulitples of this still. For Sandman to market a screen is going to cost even more to make it profitable. "Doing the math," I can figure why he might not be in a rush considering most of the guys he sells to are looking for under 1k screen solutions. This is just,"me talking." I do not know Sandman's exact plans. Hence, my thread and mainly because I want a new screen for my JVC RS1 sooner rather than latter. Sandman's a cool guy and I do not intend to take any sales from him as I wish him well. My sentiments are that anyone willing to build a screen would not be willing to pay what Sandman will have to charge to make it worth his while. Others may be able to find ways to make an effective screen and save some money over the route I am taking. My intentions are to have a good working screen and I am not so concerned with saving as much money as possible. I am certainly open to any suggestions.

[Bulldogger]

How about item 3028 in monoprice website?

It's cheap but I don't know if it could be compatible with somfy or torquemaster motors.

Anyone?
I think that's just the remote control. The actual control hardware is likely built into the monoprice screens so it would not work with my motor. I am sure their are cheaper solutions for remote control than Dalite's. HTIQ can do a dual motor control for a 12volt dc motor for only 110.00. He is the guy with the already engineered masking systems as well. My motor is 110 volt AC so his control would not work with my motor. I do not know what the Somfy motors are?

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-

Just curious, but what kinda $$ will you have wrapped up with your retractable when everything is said and done?

Don

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger-

Just curious, but what kinda $$ will you have wrapped up with your retractable when everything is said and done?

Don
510.00 spent so far. Need motor control and screen material. That could be 250.00 or 750.00 additional depending on which way I go. Not sure yet.

[Nilk29]

Bulldogger,

I am curious know about how you are going to attach SMX to the pipe so that you always have a linear retract ability.

Steve,

Still working on getting photos.

Thanks

[Bulldogger]

I am going to attach the screen material to the pipe with double sided tape. Waiting for samples now from http://www.tapes2.com/industrial.htm Spoke with person there who says they have a thin tape that will have no problem holding my screen material and 11 pound lower bar. I have a screen now and that is how the material is attached to the roller.

[camarillo_cinema]

510.00 spent so far. Need motor control and screen material. That could be 250.00 or 750.00 additional depending on which way I go. Not sure yet.

Mmm- seems like alot. BTW, I attached my SmX using clear duct tape. Works like a charm.

Don

[Bulldogger]

Mmm- seems like alot. BTW, I attached my SmX using clear duct tape. Works like a charm.

Don
If you can tell me a cheaper way to build a screen without waves, I'm all for it. I already have a DIy screen with waves that cost couple of hundred for remote controlled motorized roller. I think your screen has waves too? Different target here. Waves are not something I am willing to accept. If I can not build a screen without waves, I'll just trash the whole thing. Waves are out. I absolutely hate the effect they cause when the scene pans. Sure you can build a screen cheaper, with wood and duct tape or a cordless screw driver and closet rod even but can you do it without waves? Your duct tape may not hold if you had a heavier weight at the end of your screen which might get rid of the waves? So that's why I could not use duct tape. I do not believe the adhesive strong enough to hold roughly 25 pounds with material and my aluminum rod. One reason for sure that 99% of the DIy electric screens have waves are because of lower cost methods used. The pipes are not stiff enough and deflecting and casusing V-waves. The material and method used to weight the screen is not heavy enought to keep the material tight. The weight can not be any heavier because the pipe would flex even more and the motor used is not strong enough to pull a heavy weight up. Commerial screens avoid these problems with stiffer rollers and stronger motors. Those screens have no compromiese. That's what I want. NO compromiese. Sorry for the rant. I just am not seeing what I consider many successful, meaning no waves, electric DIY screens. So pardon my rant but what is a lot is the amount of time I will waste to build a screen with waves which is totally unacceptable. There, got it off my chest:).

[Bulldogger]

Attached motor today. In order to keep the screws attaching the motor drive to the pipe from sticking up and creating an impression in your screen material, you have to use a countersink drill bit. This allows the head of the screws to be below the plane of the roller. I'll attach some pics. My screws that I planned to use to attach the motor end to the bracket were a bit too short. I will buy some longer ones tommorrow and test the roller to see that it rolls evenly. Then all I have to do is build the valence, mount the screen material,and wire a temporary switch. Note, when using a coutnersink bit, it is easier if you drill a pilot hole about the same size of the screw that you plan to use. It goes much faster this way.

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-
Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers! I agree, waves are not acceptable.

As a DIYer myself, I try to find ways to make things that work, and are affordable. I am by NO means an expert on retractable screens. But, I like to experiment, and thus far, I'm still experimenting with this.

But, being a DIY-er, one has to remind oneself:

a) how much time am I willing to put into this.
b) how much money am I willing to spend.
c) what will be the end result?

If you make $50/hr doing what you do, then I would say forget the DIY thang, and go down to the local Stewart dealer and buy something "off the shelf".
You will be many $$ and hairs ahead ( or is that hairs a head?). ;)

Besides the screen material, I have maybe $200 invested in my retractable. I have a 2-inch roller with a 1/4 inch wall thickness. So, IMO, so long as the material is attached properly, the roller is NOT the issue here. I think the load bar is suspect, and I will be addressing that soon. Meanwhile, I am living with the waves.

Don

[Bulldogger]

Sorry man, these waves have me going crazy:D. Doing everything to make sure I get a screen without them.

[ScottJ0007]

If you make $50/hr doing what you do, then I would say forget the DIY thang, and go down to the local Stewart dealer and buy something "off the shelf".
You will be many $$ and hairs ahead ( or is that hairs a head?).
For some of us, this isn't only about dollars and cents. Home theaters can be a hobby and a passion. If it were only about the cost of our time, probably none of use would build a home theater, we would just go to the local theater and spend $20 a couple of times each week. In most cases, that would be a whole lot cheaper than the time, effort, and money we put into our home theaters. One of my other hobbies is wine, and I love a quote I saw on the Wine Spectator web site...
Life can be lived in a casual way, or plumbed to the depths. We all choose how and where to spend our energy and attention. You may play music, cook seriously, or tend a lovely garden. Maybe the things you love aren’t vital, but they make life richer. Passion is never wasted effort.
So if someone wants to spend their time and money on a hobby / passion to get their drop-down screen just like they want it, then I say POWER TO THEM! "Passion is never a wasted effort".

[camarillo_cinema]

Hey Scott-

You're talking to a guy that has a serious passion for home theater.
I got laid off of a 6-figure income 27 months ago. I decided that I wanted this for a vocation. Had I'd decided to remain a "paycheck junkie", I'd be major bucks ahead.

Don

[Bulldogger]

The best price I got on a Screen Research in the size I want with masking from 16:9 to 2:35 was 9K. If I can build this one for 1.5K and get it to do the same things, I think it is a bargain:)! Sure DIY is about saving money. I am saving money. You just have to know the context. To a guy who wants a electric screen for 200.00, 1500.00 may seem like a lot even though my inspiration is a 9000.00 screen. For me I get to have the fun of building it. I am definitely enjoying building it!! I was not sure how it would turn out. It is turning out very very well. I have the whole thing working right now. I need to do some fine tuning. I want to make sure that the roller is perfectly level before I mount it to my valence. My wife is even happy. She says it's starting to look 'professional.":). There are a lot of little things that you have to figure out. Like what bit to buy in order to be able to counter sink the screws to hold the motor. Tensioning the material is something that I may need to consider if it turns out that inspite of my best efforts, I still have waves. My screen will be no more that 120 wide but I have a 138 inch roller. The plans is to leave room to add some type of tensioning system if I need it. I think this screen is going to last for many many years. As new screen materials are developed, I hope to be able to just re-screen as they do.

[camarillo_cinema]

My wife is even happy.

Aahh-
Got the WAF going. That's good.

I can tell you that I'm loving every bit of my retractable. I find myself watching more movies in the living room than in the theater, which is set up for cinemascope. Just need to get that anamorphic lens!

BTW, I will be putting up a retractable on the balcony next month for outdoor viewing. I need to find a suitable weather-proof box for the PJ.

Don

[Bulldogger]

Here's a pic of the idler end connected to the bracket. The motor end looks the same except of course it has the motor. Since this picture I am experimenting with mounting the bracket to the board that will be part of the valence.At this point I believe I am going to mount the brakets to the front of the valence and not to the board attached directly to the ceiling. My intention is to mount the roller in such a way as to allow room in front of it for a second smaller roller mounted higher for roll down masking.

[Bulldogger]

Aahh-
I can tell you that I'm loving every bit of my retractable. I find myself watching more movies in the living room than in the theater, which is set up for cinemascope. Just need to get that anamorphic lens!


What kind of projector for the outdoors? Going to have to be bright.

[Steve Kinkead]

I'd like to setup an outdoor screen also. My Sanyo Z5 is not very bright but by 8pm it's pretty dark in S.California.

[Steve Kinkead]

I am going to mount the brakets to the front of the valence and not to the board attached directly to the ceiling.

Are you planning on mounting the the roller to the valance while it is on the ground? Then attach the screen material to roller on the ground? And finally, attach the entire assembly (valance, roller, and screen) onto the header attached to the ceiling?

Steve

[camarillo_cinema]

What kind of projector for the outdoors? Going to have to be bright.

Bulldogger-

May not be so bright, 'cause it will be under a patio cover. My first effort for the balcony is to install a 20-ft motorized roller shade with 20% transparent PVC material. This will keep the morning sun out and offer a fair amount of privacy. Movie watching will be night time only. Not really concerned about the ambient light here after dusk, unless it's a full moon.

So wind won't be an issue, I will install eyelets on the ends of the load bar. A cable running vertically at each end passes through the eyelets and keeps the shade from flopping around or possibly becoming a UFO.

I'll probably do an RF control on this one, with limit switches on each end of the travel.

Next thing is a nice weather-proof enclosure for the PJ. I'm thinking of a plexiglass design, with a front door that lifts up when it's show time. You can have the door operated by a RC servo motor thru a linkage.

Best thing to do is try the enclosure with a "garage sale" receiver. Rather sacrifice it than a Pearl. ;)

Don

[Bulldogger]

Are you planning on mounting the the roller to the valance while it is on the ground? Then attach the screen material to roller on the ground? And finally, attach the entire assembly (valance, roller, and screen) onto the header attached to the ceiling?

Steve
Basically. Remember my motor is not a Somfy motor. As a result the way I have it connected with the universal motor mount, is completely different from the way it was intended to be used. As a result, my motor end is about 1/2 lower than the idler cap end. I am going to place a another piece of wood under the motor side bracket to even them out. I want to make sure that all sides are even so that when the screen rolls up it will do so evenly. When I have the brackets located in the right spot, then I am going to remove the roller and attached the fabric on the ground. I'll mount the valence first to the ceiling and then mount the roller to the valence. That's the way I have done it in the past. I have one of those laser line devices. I'll find the beam in the ceiling with a stud finder and then mark it with a nail. Then I'll shoot a straight line down where that beam should be. To confirm that I am on target, I'll hammer a second nail on the laser line at the opposite end of the room from the first nail. If all goes well, it will hit the beam in the ceiling as well and confirm that I have properly located it. Right at the top of my valance where it meets the ceiling, I'll cut a hole on both ends so the laser can shine through the hole. The area where I connect the valence will be directly above where the roller will be in order to balance the thing and create less pressure for it to lean forward or backwards. To keep everything lined up, I'll take a piece of tape and put that on the ceiling to mark where each end of the valance needs to be to keep the whole thing straight. To do this is a three person job. You need two guys one on each end and one to secure the valance. That's where the wife comes in:). She's becoming pretty good at this after helping mount four electric screens to the ceiing. While I and one of my brother, other ones back in college, line it up, my wife will take my nail gun and go down that laser line. When the valance it secure enough, I'll come behind her and use long screws to further secure the valance, about 1 every foot.

[camarillo_cinema]

I HIGHLY recommend help with putting a system like this up. Even if you have to bribe someone. I had my house cleaner's husband help me with mine. Looks like I'll be making another batch of tamales this weekend! ;)

Don

[Bulldogger]

I found a cheaper remote control solution for a single motor. About 70.00 on ebay. This company http://www.saaria.com/remoteU2/default.htm Just a single motor control though.

[Steve Kinkead]

I'm leaving for China tomorrow. I hope to see some photos of your assembled unit when I return!

[Bulldogger]

Working to wrap it up. Good luck with China. I'm sure you will take some pics. Waiting for double sided tape sample. Had to call again and company is rushing samples out. Looks like Sandman's SMX720 is going to be the fabric. I should have the roller mounted to the valance and every thing aligned by Monday for sure. Then only thing left to do will be to get screen material, cut it, mask it and mount it to roller. I expect my tape samples no latter than Wed. as Tues is Mardi Gras. Since it is Mardi Gras season I"m busy partying :) which has brought home theater projects to a slow pace. Hard to build when you are hung over :D. Once ran into a plastic surgeon in a bar who told me that the couple of month before Mardi Gras, his business goes up by 33% and all those girls like to show off his work.

[camarillo_cinema]

I found a cheaper remote control solution for a single motor. About 70.00 on ebay. This company http://www.saaria.com/remoteU2/default.htm Just a single motor control though.

Not a bad price, Bulldogger. That's about the only way to control your 110VAC motor is with relays.

BTW, if you want a Clapper interface to go with it, let me know. "Clap Up - Clap Down. " :D

Don

[mlbrand]

I hit paydirt at the metal shop today! I have been looking for a light and stiff pipe for my DIY A.T. screen, and had been striking out. Everything I tried either had too much flex, or was too heavy. After I took back the 3 1/2' schedule 40 STEEL pipe (waay too heavy!) I told the shop owner what I was looking for. He started digging around and pulled out a 12 foot piece of thin wall aluminum pipe that is very rigid and light as a feather, and only charged me $36 for it! It was old, so I had to sand off a little oxidation, but it came off easily with fine sandpaper. I look forward to working with this stuff this weekend, and my screen just lost 20lbs! :D

[coastalb55]

Bulldogger, it has been a little over a week snce your last post here. How's progress on the roller screen assembly?

[Bulldogger]

Fine, I measured it at both ends to make sure both ends were at the same height. I had to add a 1/4 piece of wood to get both sides even. Drilled holes in wood and mounted roller. Every thing seems to be working fine. I'll try to post some pics on Wed., too busy tomorrow. Got double sided tape sample. I'll post a pic of that too. The only substantial thing to do is get the screen material and mount it to the roller. I used an old piece of screen material that I had to test the how strong the tape is by mounting it to a wooden poll that i have and adding a weight. It appears to be strong enough. Mounting the material to the roller is something that is going to be a difficult part. The reason being is that the material needs to be evenly attached or it will not roll up properly. It is not going to be that difficult just a slow and careful job.

[Bulldogger]

I hit paydirt at the metal shop today! I have been looking for a light and stiff pipe for my DIY A.T. screen, and had been striking out. Everything I tried either had too much flex, or was too heavy. After I took back the 3 1/2' schedule 40 STEEL pipe (waay too heavy!) I told the shop owner what I was looking for. He started digging around and pulled out a 12 foot piece of thin wall aluminum pipe that is very rigid and light as a feather, and only charged me $36 for it! It was old, so I had to sand off a little oxidation, but it came off easily with fine sandpaper. I look forward to working with this stuff this weekend, and my screen just lost 20lbs! :D
Sounds great. Make sure your pipe will not flex. I found that a lot of the alum. pipes will.

[coastalb55]

Fine, I measured it at both ends to make sure both ends were at the same height. I had to add a 1/4 piece of wood to get both sides even. Drilled holes in wood and mounted roller. Every thing seems to be working fine. I'll try to post some pics on Wed., too busy tomorrow. Got double sided tape sample. I'll post a pic of that too. The only substantial thing to do is get the screen material and mount it to the roller. I used an old piece of screen material that I had to test the how strong the tape is by mounting it to a wooden poll that i have and adding a weight. It appears to be strong enough. Mounting the material to the roller is something that is going to be a difficult part. The reason being is that the material needs to be evenly attached or it will not roll up properly. It is not going to be that difficult just a slow and careful job.

I was thinking about that. Just a little bit skewed and the screen will walk off to one side.

[mlbrand]

Sounds great. Make sure your pipe will not flex. I found that a lot of the alum. pipes will.

Bulldogger,

I can't detect any flex in this pipe, which is a little surprising to me as thin as the walls are. I have read your earlier posts and followed your advice to find a non-flexing pipe. You were right about schedule 40 PVC, it flexes despite the thickness of the pipe, at least a 10'-12' piece does. It also takes surprisingly thick steel pipe to not flex, maybe the weight of the pipe itself makes it flex? :confused:

I've got my screen material (Phifer 4500) installed on the pipe/roller, and it looks great, no waves and no sagging. The video quality and audio transparency seems to be very good as well, so I am extremely pleased with it overall. :D

BTW I attached the screen to my pipe with double sided carpet tape, and then put a layer of duct tape on the top side for good measure. I am leaving at least one to one and a half wraps on the pipe roller for insurance that it won't come off. I plan on manually rolling up my screen for now, so no motors, etc. in my plans yet.

Mike

[camarillo_cinema]

Mike-
The 4500 material, is it 5% transparent? I assume you got white.

Don

[mlbrand]

Don,

Yes, it is white and I'm pretty sure it's 5% transparent.

Mike

[gottahavapj]

I've got my screen material (Phifer 4500) installed on the pipe/roller, and it looks great, no waves and no sagging. The video quality and audio transparency seems to be very good as well, so I am extremely pleased with it overall. :D

Mike
Are you using anything to weight the bottom of the screen? PICTURES!!! Pretty, pretty PLEASE!!! :)

You guys are really wetting my appetite here.

[camarillo_cinema]

Don,

Yes, it is white and I'm pretty sure it's 5% transparent.

Mike

Mike -
My distributor carries Phifer 4000 and 4400 in chalk, 5% and 3% respectively. I just may get some of each to see how it compares to SmX.

Don

[mlbrand]

Mike -
My distributor carries Phifer 4000 and 4400 in chalk, 5% and 3% respectively. I just may get some of each to see how it compares to SmX.

Don

That would be interesting. I have not done any comparisons with other screen materials, as this is my first projector screen I have ever used or built, along with my first projector ever (Panasonic 900).

I have had my Pioneer 64" HD RPTV for five years, it is professionally calibrated, and I have been feeding it with a Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player since last spring, (and DirecTV HD from the start) so I know good (and bad) PQ when I see it. My audio system is decent as well. I'm no expert, but so far I really like what I see and hear using the Phifer 4500, and I like the price, as I only have about $300 total in a manual 120" diagonal 2.35 A.T. screen! :D

[camarillo_cinema]

I'm no expert, but so far I really like what I see and hear using the Phifer 4500, and I like the price, as I only have about $300 total in a manual 120" diagonal 2.35 A.T. screen! :D

Not bad, Comrade. My system costs about the same, using SmX. I'm building a retractable for a friend using the Phifer. I've got my own retractable "engine", which keeps the cost pretty low.

Don

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger,

I can't detect any flex in this pipe, which is a little surprising to me as thin as the walls are. I have read your earlier posts and followed your advice to find a non-flexing pipe. You were right about schedule 40 PVC, it flexes despite the thickness of the pipe, at least a 10'-12' piece does. It also takes surprisingly thick steel pipe to not flex, maybe the weight of the pipe itself makes it flex? :confused:

I've got my screen material (Phifer 4500) installed on the pipe/roller, and it looks great, no waves and no sagging. The video quality and audio transparency seems to be very good as well, so I am extremely pleased with it overall. :D

BTW I attached the screen to my pipe with double sided carpet tape, and then put a layer of duct tape on the top side for good measure. I am leaving at least one to one and a half wraps on the pipe roller for insurance that it won't come off. I plan on manually rolling up my screen for now, so no motors, etc. in my plans yet.

Mike
Good work. The Phifer 4500 would bring the price down considerably.

[Bulldogger]

Did a rough contruction of the valance.

[Bulldogger]

More pics of valance

[Bulldogger]

Here's some pics of the roller/motor assembly attached to valance. Everything is working fine. Next step is to take it apart, sand and paint the valance, add crown molding and mount screen material to roller. I decided to go with the Dalite single motor control with IR. The problem with the Saaria remote is that it has a 30 sec. time-out to project their motors. Since my pipe is 4 inches outside diameter, it will roll 8 inches of fabric with each revolution. My motor has a speed of 15 revolutions per minute. So in 30 seconds it would roll about 60 inches of material. If you used a smaller pipe you need a faster motor. For example with a 2 inch pipe you would need the motor to turn 30 revolutions to raise the same amount of material. I think I have settle on a screen size of 65 by 116 but am waiting for my new projector, the JVC RS1 due next week to see how bright I want the image to be. With the bottom of the screen about 28 inches off the floor, I will need to roll about 75 inches of material. The Saaria remote would not allow this. AVS sells Dalite parts and should be able to help. I think the most cost effective control would be the Dalite video projector interface which is a 12v trigger. You really only need the screen to lower when the projector is on. Which give you remote control via the projector. The video projector interface is only about 100.00 or so. I plan to buy one of those to lower masking when I add that.

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-

I'd like to correct you on a couple of points. Not to get technical on ya, but what you built is a cornice.

It looks very, very nice.

Secondly, the speed at which your fabric will roll down is actually faster than you think.

If your motor turns at 15 RPM, this is .25 (15/60) rotations per second. The speed at which the material will roll up/down is determined also by the circumference of the roller, which is 12.5 inches (pi * 4 inches diameter).

So, in order to lower 60 inches of material, it will take:

60 inches/12.5 inches per rev/ .25 revs per second = 19.2 seconds

Actually, it will take a little less than that, since the fabric changes the diameter of the roller dynamically, but I don't feel like doing the math for that! :eek:

Don

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger-

I'd like to correct you on a couple of points. Not to get technical on ya, but what you built is a cornice.

It looks very, very nice.

Secondly, the speed at which your fabric will roll down is actually faster than you think.

If your motor turns at 15 RPM, this is .25 (15/60) rotations per second. The speed at which the material will roll up/down is determined also by the circumference of the roller, which is 12.5 inches (pi * 4 inches diameter).

So, in order to lower 60 inches of material, it will take:

60 inches/12.5 inches per rev/ .25 revs per second = 19.2 seconds

Actually, it will take a little less than that, since the fabric changes the diameter of the roller dynamically, but I don't feel like doing the math for that! :eek:

Don
Thanks. I can see that you are experienced at this. You didn't add the drop to the math though. Add about 15 inches to that.

[Bulldogger]

My guy, who sold me the parts for my screen is checking into some thing for me. I am considering having him have a pocket sewed into the fabric for my metal bar that will add weight to the screen. Also, I am having him look into have the material seemed to add extra height as by the time I seam it for the pocket the fabric will be under 95 inches. I would like to be able to wrap the roller a few times as well. If I wrapped it twice my fabric would be down to 70 inches tall. Further he can have the material seamed and then cut at an angle to "tilt" the material to prevent any possible moire issues. This may be the way to go and in this case worth the extra cost. I will not have to worry about cutting the material and trying to sew a pocket in.

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger-

I'd like to correct you on a couple of points. Not to get technical on ya, but what you built is a cornice.
Don
Valance is a synonym for cornice. Dalite refers to these as valances. I was pretty certain I was using the correct term, http://www.answers.com/topic/cornice. My guy who sells blinds too is double checking the measurement and advising.

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-

I think of a valence as a short curtain that covers the track in a drapery system. Don't forget, there is also a fascia.

I think more importantly is the fact that you may reconsider your other controller which sells for $$ less. The 30-second timeout will not be an issue.

Don

[Bulldogger]

I do not want to be limited to 30 seconds. My motor has is a 770 foot pound motor so would use it for other applications in the future. My experience with the Dalite stuff is that it is of high quality. Also if I add masking which I intend, I will need two motor controls operating with different IR codes so I can retract them independently. I have asked Dalite repeatedly via telephone if I could do this with their remotes but could not get a definite answer. I will use the Saaria control for my masking. Perhaps you can call Dalite and debate whether valance is a synonym for cornice. Part of the instructions for mount their screen include the use of #6 brackets for mounting behind what they are calling a valance.

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger-

I think of a valence as a short curtain that covers the track in a drapery system. Don't forget, there is also a fascia.

I think more importantly is the fact that you may reconsider your other controller which sells for $$ less. The 30-second timeout will not be an issue.

Don
Stikes me as odd that with all of your experience your screen has waves. What gives? Surely you know how to eliminate them? That is just what keeps crossing my mind.

[camarillo_cinema]

Bulldogger-
My main focus are masking systems, not retractable screens! I don't have any waves in the masks, BTW. Yes, when I have some spare time (laugh), I will solve the wave issue on my retractable. Not sure how this relates to my post, but fair enough. When I do solve the problem, I will post it.

Didn't mean for this to be a pissing contest, I was just trying to help. Besides, didn't I just save you some coin?? :)

Don

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger-
I was just trying to help. Besides, didn't I just save you some coin?? :)

Don
No. My objective is not to save money. That's what I've been saying all alone but you are not "hearing" me. The cheaper electronics have those tiny little wires and are fragile. I just got my Da-lite control in. The wires are sturdy. The connection to the IR sensor is a thick as a telephone cord. In fact that's what it looks like. Again ;) , I already have a "cheap" DIY screen with flimsy connections that I broke when I just bumped into it, weak motor and waves. That is not what I am trying to do here. This screen is for my personal use. Few guys asked me via PM to post my screen as I go along. I do not intend to have the as the "official" electric screen thread:D. All this is to show and tell how I did it. I'm sure there will be ways for others to do it cheaper. Tiddler had done a fine job with making a cheaper screen. The tips on measuring how much fabric I need for the roller is really the only thing you have done to help. The rest has not helped as I am just keep spending time telling you that I am not trying make a cheap screen.

[Bulldogger]

Here's the motor control. Wiring is very simple. I bought a power cord from Home Depot. The cord is a standard three wire cord, with green, black and white wires. These match up exactly with the wires coming out of the control. The wires that go to the screen also match it exactly. That's another reason that I chose to buy the Dalite stuff as it usually matches U.S. wiring schemes and you do not have to try to figure out what color wire should go wire. You just match color to color. Took about 10 min to wire power cord to control and control to motor. Batteries already in the controller. I now have remote control of the screen in less than 10 min set-up.

[Bulldogger]

These are the wires out of the control for the motor. They match wires to motor exactly. The last picture is of the wires from the control connected to the power cord.

[Bulldogger]

Maybe I should just not include this picture as it of poor quality. At any rate, it's the IR sensory. It just has a cable that looks like a standard telephone extentsion line that plugs into it and into the center of the control. Wiring all this is very simple. Da-lite even has a 1-800 number on the control for assistance. The cable dangling from the table is the cable use to connect it.

[Bulldogger]

I have decided to go with SMX720 because Sandman is just more flexible with his material. 98 inch tall which is the max height for SW4500 does not really work for me because I would really like to wrap the roller with more material. By the time I have the pocket sewn in for the metal rod to weight the screen, I'll have 94.5 inches of height left. To wrap the roller twice will then eat up another 25 inches of material and only leave me with 69.5 inches of material and I need about 80 to extend down to 28 inches off the floor in my room with 9 foot ceilings. If your room has 8 foot ceilings the 98 inch material should work. Fortunately, Sandman has come to the rescue with material that is 126 inches tall. The means that I can do a screen that is 124 wide and have plenty of material to put a lot of wraps on my roller to make the material stay on the roller. My other source is reluctant to seam the SW4500 because of the thinness of the material. Sandman is set-up to seam the material, his is just as thin too, and has the material that does not need to be seamed in 126 widths. The SW4500 does not come in widths greater than 98 so that alone tell you that the materials are not the same. The MAJOR reason that I am building my own screen is because I can update the material that I am using for the screen material easily if I built it myself. Sandman is continually working on this stuff. Perhaps at some future point, he will have even newer materials for me to try. That's why I am happy to support him.

[Bulldogger]

Testing my motor mounted to the valance is noisy. The motor did not seem that loud before. Now it sounds pretty loud. The wood seems to be amplifying the sound. Not happy about this. Roller is working very well. Seems to be rolling smoothly and evenly with no up or down jogging. Loud though. I think if i did this again, I would go with the Somfy motor.

[Bulldogger]

Tightening the brackets greatly reduced the noise. Appears I was getting some vibrations from that. Also, I am going to stuff the pipe with some fiberglass, including around the motor to reduce the sound. I think motor noise is being amplified by the empty pipe and then echoed by the valance. I should be able to make things much quieter. I may consider adding some kind of dampening beneath the brakets as well to prevent sound from transfering at that point. I think it is going to work fine in the end. I need to work on the fine tuning though to get it just right.

[SandmanX]

The Box and Core is amplifying the motor. You need to go to an auto parts store and purchase the rubber insulated spray they use to deaden door panels, trucks etc. and coat the inside cavity of the box. That should greatly reduce noise.

Also spray the box before you mount the hardware and find some thick rubber sheets to put in between the mounting hardware and the box. You want to minimizes the transfer of vibration from the motor to the box to make it quieter.

Also buy some Great Stuff from home depot or get some dense cotton and insulate your core.

Ruben

[Bulldogger]

I added some rubber beneath the mounting brackets and tightened everything up well. Noise is WAY down. I am excited! It's working really well. I have not even stuffed the roller with any type of dampening material but feel the the noise level is acceptable now. Once I damp the inside of my valance and roller, it should be really cool. This is great! I am really pleased with the results:).

[Bulldogger]

I'm headed to the auto parts store today to get the material Sandman has recommended. Also going to pull the roller off and first try stuffing it with fiberglass and remounting the whole thing. If that does not work, I may try the Great Stuff. Once I use the Great Stuff, there is no going back though. I still have to pull off mounting the material and not getting any waves. When that's done, I'll consider this a complete success.

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger,

I can't detect any flex in this pipe, which is a