Tosh HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports!

[billymerritt]

Yes, got A2 From BB today! Had my A1 in to their repair facility for over a month and they said not repairable, so gave me exchange for A2. I tried to get A2 before lunch today but had not come in yet!

Behold, got phone call from BB at 1PM and UPS just delivered the first A2 shipment so dashed over and picked it up.

I know there are many questions, and I only had chance to do quick test but so far it's much better than A1 for performance. I checked out the first problem title for most folks with E.O.Days and played TrueHD track flawless not lag, pause or hiccups at all. Then checked out some of KK just to be sure it works and just fine with it.

First thing I noticed on my setup is even better blacks, at least to my eyes. Also much faster, how fast? just like Toshiba says about twice as quick as A1. Another plus is when movie does start don't get all the flashing and video noise like the A1, just starts smooth like it should.

Not a lot of time spent with it yet, so hope this helps take the edge of all you folks still waiting for it to get in your hands. I think it is well worth the wait, but of course my A1 was great for about 6 months before it got sick, hope our new A2's will have better results.

[Andrew P]

Very nice. Can't wait to hear more about it!

[newvue1256]

Nice!

[Hunter67]

I was at my local BB today and asked them about the A2, they had 3 in stock, said they would sell one to me but without the 6 channel analog out I'm not interested since I don't have HDMI on my AVM-30 yet.

BTW, it was priced @ 499.99

[Lodef]

Good to see someome has one in hand. Keep us posted with the reviews. I can't wait to get mine.

[Cooper0103]

How did it sound as compared to the A1?

[hmurchison]

Right on! It's time to start a A2 Sticky thread!

[JOHNnDENVER]

WooHooo, the players are out and 5 days early from the last release date? Nice...

What is the phrase? Wait for it?


"This is good for HD-DVD" :)

[Hunter67]

Right on! It's time to start a A2 Sticky thread!
I agree,

"Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports!" Sticky thread!

Post some pics too :)

[bfdtv]

Grats Bill. The HD-A2 is improved in too many ways to list.

If you don't require 5.1 analog output -- either because you have a HDMI receiver now or plan to upgrade to one next year --- you are going to be very happy with the A2. I could not say the same thing about the previous-generation A1 -- which was fine for enthusiasts, but perhaps not the best player for the masses. The A2 is far better suited for the average person who wants to get into high-definition media. As I have said before, the A2 is a second-generation player and it shows.

[thebland]

Any BB coupons floating around the internet??

[Cooper0103]

I just got a 12% off in the mail the other day....it runs until the 11th

I just called my local BB and they didn't have them in stock but he went to check the sku# to find out when they would get them..and guess what. I got disconnected!

[PeterS]

Sure are. 10% this weekend 12% for Reward Zone.

However, Robert's is the MUCH better deal for the same price, plus 2 HD-DVDs and no sales tax or shipping!

[Cooper0103]

However, Robert's is the MUCH better deal for the same price, plus 2 HD-DVDs and no sales tax or shipping!


Where is he doing no shipping on his offer? I must have missed that.

[PeterS]

Says Free Shipping right in the ad. I am pretty sure.

[billymac]

questions for A2 owners:

1. colorspace issue over dvi fixed?
2. how about btb and black crush?

thanks

[1loudsuv]

great news for blur ray

[dlhoppe]

Bill is probably watching movies right now! Lucky dog!!!!

[Suzook]

Just landed one myself. Got the three free movie print out as well and the 12% off even though it doesnt start tomorrow. And to think I was moving over officially to the Blu-Ray camp not too long ago :)

[skriefal]

Does the A2 still transcode to DTS for those without an HDMI-capable receiver?

[hmurchison]

Just landed one myself. Got the three free movie print out as well and the 12% off even though it doesnt start tomorrow. And to think I was moving over officially to the Blu-Ray camp not too long ago :)

Great things come to those who wait. Looking forward to your commentary on the A2

[Suzook]

Incidentally, the display model was thrown in with a bunch of tivo stuff and dvd recorders. No display nothing. Not even a price or info card was there. Sony Blu-Ray has a nice end cap. Funny because you pay for space on the sales floor and even with no placement HD dvd is outselling Blu-Ray

[Dave Mack]

VE does charge for shipping if you get the discount.

[trgraphics]

I thought Robert was getting a special shipment in before anyone else? Oh well, just have to wait for him to ship now.

[mrkrispy]

congratulations!

[sknight1]

Could any A2 owner confirm the version of firmware?

Thanks!

[ryoohki]

PHotoooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ss

LOL

Somebody must do a official opening in photos... really, it's a new for every new products LOL

[GmanAVS]

BB on Rte 17 North (Fashion Mall) in Paramus just received 4 A1s from FedEx 15 min. ago.
Ask for Roy (or is it Ray) in the TV/DVD area.... the 4 boxes are in the back and not on the floor.... he did say 1 is on pre-order so 3 are available.

Although I'd personally get it from Robert at VE, if you just can't wait until next week and "need" it now gget there fast and post pics and review even faster :D

[ottscay]

This IS good news for HD DVD. Now we'll have to see how many ship, and how well they sell.

[cliftonrouse]

I would love to see some photos.

[Mark0]

This is NOT good news for HD DVD, this is EXCELLENT NEWS!
If the early reports are true (quicker load times, less quirky, better remote), there will really be no reason other than studio support to go with a >$999 blu-ray player.

Hmmm, I'm thinking of unloading my HD-A1 on e-bay.

[PeterS]

Better hurry!

[Savageone79]

So can some one tell me how the upconverting compares and if it converts audio to dts? Those are the two things I am holding off to find out to upgrade my gen 1 player or not.

[Blasst]

Yes, got A2 From BB today! Had my A1 in to their repair facility for over a month and they said not repairable, so gave me exchange for A2. I tried to get A2 before lunch today but had not come in yet!

Behold, got phone call from BB at 1PM and UPS just delivered the first A2 shipment so dashed over and picked it up.

I know there are many questions, and I only had chance to do quick test but so far it's much better than A1 for performance. I checked out the first problem title for most folks with E.O.Days and played TrueHD track flawless not lag, pause or hiccups at all. Then checked out some of KK just to be sure it works and just fine with it.

First thing I noticed on my setup is even better blacks, at least to my eyes. Also much faster, how fast? just like Toshiba says about twice as quick as A1. Another plus is when movie does start don't get all the flashing and video noise like the A1, just starts smooth like it should.

Not a lot of time spent with it yet, so hope this helps take the edge of all you folks still waiting for it to get in your hands. I think it is well worth the wait, but of course my A1 was great for about 6 months before it got sick, hope our new A2's will have better results.
Congrats billymerritt! You are the first to post on AVS about getting the A2. Hard to believe its been 8 months since RonP first posted here, 4/14/06, about getting the A1, which by the way, you both got from Best Buy:)

[Cooper0103]

Just went to my only BB here in town. Walked in past the 3 yes 3 Blue Ray end cap displays and went to the HD-DVD's to check to see if any A2's were there....nada. Just an empty spot where a tag still sits with the A1 advertised on clearance.

So I walked up and aske a guy when they would be getting some in. He said "I don't know"....I said some BB locations got them today so I just wondered...he "replied...yeah I'm not sure when we will"....I replied..."Is there anyway to check on that?"....he says "No, not really".

Man what is the freaking deal with the people that work at that place? Where are all those helpful looking happy customer serviced people we see on all those damn commercials? I have yet to run into someone like that at BB.

[thebland]

WHere do you download those BB 10% coupons?

[mweppner]

I love shopping at BB, but basically just never really count on getting any help out of them. It's a cool place to play with toys and buy stuff - but that's all I use it for. The other day I was browsing around and saw the Blu Ray and HD-DVD displays side by side. One guy was looking closely at them. I walked up to him and said not to pay much attention - it wasn't an HD-DVD player being used in the display so not a fair comparison! How can they put a regular DVD player there in the HD-DVD demo area? Crazy.

That said - I will be browsing local BB's tomorrow in hopes to find my wife's (ok, it's for me) Christmas present! Can't wait to get the A2.

[suthrn]

I called my local BB and of course I get the regional operator that isn't even in the store and she says they don't have any and if they did they couldn't sell them until the 14th, which she calims is the release date. Guess I have to go there myself and check in the morning to make sure. I live in Delaware, so I figure if their in NJ and FL they should be here too. Right?

[jwv651]

Just went to my only BB here in town. Walked in past the 3 yes 3 Blue Ray end cap displays and went to the HD-DVD's to check to see if any A2's were there....nada. Just an empty spot where a tag still sits with the A1 advertised on clearance.

So I walked up and aske a guy when they would be getting some in. He said "I don't know"....I said some BB locations got them today so I just wondered...he "replied...yeah I'm not sure when we will"....I replied..."Is there anyway to check on that?"....he says "No, not really".

Man what is the freaking deal with the people that work at that place? Where are all those helpful looking happy customer serviced people we see on all those damn commercials? I have yet to run into someone like that at BB.Ask for a manager...he or she should know.

[jayselle]

I spoke to someone at a store today who said four just came in and were in the back. I was there 30 minutes later and the salesman looked all over and including the back; he then checked their stock and said they have 4 on order. So I walked away empty handed. I am willing to bet they are there and he just couldn't find them as they hadn't been checked in yet. I should of asked the name of the person I spoke to on the phone.

[darinp2]

Has anybody checked the Continental Airlines onepass site to see if they are selling these? I don't have the login information right now to check it, or I would.

Thanks,
Darin

[mimason]

Billy,

Where are you in TPA? I'll be right over ;). Better yet can you swing by my place with the A2? I got good import beer(or cheap wine) a 92" screen, theater seats and a place for the A2 in my rack. Next week for my delivery seems too long now. :)

[aaronwt]

I hope a BB near me has the A2. With the 10% off and 12% off coupon(received in the mail today) I can get the A2 and a TiVo Series 3 and also have no interest until 2010!(Of course I would pay it off 1 month before 2010)

[suthrn]

Hopefully anyone who has gotten one today will start posting their opinions soon. I am curious about the upconversion.

[John Ballentine]

How about "time remaining' on-screen-display?
Resume play w/o need to bookmark?
Chapter skip "on screen" chapter indication?
(guess I'll never get these questions answered until I get my hands on one)

[metalsaber]

:p Awaiting some feedback.

[eightninesuited]

Let's see some pics.

Also, tell us how the upscaling is compared to the A1?

Also, is the remote the same?

[StuDBaker]

I spoke to someone at a store today who said four just came in and were in the back. I was there 30 minutes later and the salesman looked all over and including the back; he then checked their stock and said they have 4 on order. So I walked away empty handed. I am willing to bet they are there and he just couldn't find them as they hadn't been checked in yet. I should of asked the name of the person I spoke to on the phone.

You should file a lawsuit against that store. They raised your expectations and made you expend wear and tear on your car and use gas that isn't cheap. They should at least reimburse you for the gas and emotional distress.

[StuDBaker]

:p Awaiting some feedback.

Me too. Mine doesn't come until tomorrow, but I want to know all about it right now. I want to know what to expect. It's space, right above my BD Panasonic is all ready to go, wired, and just waiting for the unit to be connected.

[metalsaber]

Me too. Mine doesn't come until tomorrow, but I want to know all about it right now. I want to know what to expect. It's space, right above my BD Panasonic is all ready to go, wired, and just waiting for the unit to be connected.


Hehe I sold my Sammy upconverting DVD player to a co-worker and have a nice spot all ready for it.

[Mark0]

Seeing the A2 is in some folks homes, I'm going to start a new owner/user thread

[Mark0]

Hearing it has made it's way into a few lucky homes, it's time for it's own thread.
So please post your first hand opinions. :)

[lynx]

Yessssssssssssss!
Just went over to my local BB. Got one
They had three in stock and one on display. Applied my 12% coupon , came to $ 439.99 total. No tax in DE.

Haven't opened the box just yet. I will post impressions when I do. All I can say it's very light
Life is good !

[rob316]

Here we go again another thread with 4,000 posts can't wait to read each and every one.

Rob

[cliftonrouse]

Please post pictures.

[hdgeek]

Has anybody checked the Continental Airlines onepass site to see if they are selling these? I don't have the login information right now to check it, or I would.

Thanks,
Darin
Just checked and still only showing the A1. I see BB.com still shows coming soon also. Wonder if that status will change before the weekend?

[suthrn]

Yessssssssssssss!
Just went over to my local BB. Got one
They had three in stock and one on display. Applied my 12% coupon , came to $ 439.99 total. No tax in DE.

Haven't opened the box just yet. I will post impressions when I do. All I can say it's very light
Life is good !

Lynx, which BB? I live in De too and am going first thing in the morning.

[dad1153]

Reminds me when HD-DVD launched in April and every posting/picture on AVS Forum was greeted like CNN reports from Baghdad during the first Gulf War back in 1990. :rolleyes:

[Charles R]

I picked one up tonight. I have already sold my old RCA special so I won't be able to do any direct comparisons.

http://corporate-hosting.net/screeningroom/A23.jpg

[1loudsuv]

More Pictures Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sam S]

I picked one up tonight. I have already sold my old RCA special so I won't be able to do any direct comparisons.



Nice!

Can you check for us and report if both component 1080i and HDMI are active at the same time? Much thanks!

Sam

[lynx]

Here are some pics

[Kris Deering]

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

[metalsaber]

Very nice!!!

[dad1153]

Here are some pics

Been too distracted by glorious HD movie viewing to bother watering the plants lynx? ;)

[balanceofpower]

Mirroring a few others, I'd really love to hear how this one upconverts standard DVDs versus the Gen 1.

[Kris Deering]

I posted my impressions in the first user reports thread.

[billymac]

some of that was over my head, can you explain not clipping head and toe room?

does that have anything to do with btb and wtw?

i'm very curious if they fixed the colorspace issue with dvi in the chain. i realize not everybody has the problem, but many do. i have black crush along with the player not passing blacker than black with my inxx projectors.

[suthrn]

Sorry for being dumb but I don't know what CUE is.

[nataraj]

Where are the photos !?

[SpHeRe31459]

Sorry for being dumb but I don't know what CUE is.
Chroma Upsampling Error (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html), something I woulnd't think a modern device would have.

[dtsfanoh]

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Thanks Kris....do you feel if you have a 720p display, it would be best to set the player to 720p..vs 1080i ? I guess I can do my own comparison....On my XA1, I found little difference between 720p and 1080i, thus stayed with 1080i as many have stated as well.

[Mark0]

Where are the photos !?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=764683&page=2
go to bottom of thread

[Forceflow]

Funny that one resolution would have CUE but not others.

The Panny had CUE after 1.2, right Kris? Can we assume this could go away with a f/w fix?

Everything else sounds great.

[Schlotkins]

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

Did the A1 was the CUE issue or is that a "downgrade"?

Thanks,
Chris

[joffer]

black dot

[trgraphics]

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Thats all fine and good but how does the picture look??????

SD = equal or better than the A1
HD = equal or better than the A1

Please sticky this thread!

[rover2002]

Does enyone know or have a link to how many A2's Tosh has for release?
Ta.

[Ace of Space]

How's the upconversion with SD DVD's? As good or better than the HD-A1?

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

rover, very very few today, but a strong and steady flow is expected over the next few weeks.

-Robert

[Forceflow]

Did the A1 was the CUE issue or is that a "downgrade"?

Thanks,
Chris

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8991978&&#post8991978

Stacey is amazing. Here are his last objective measurements. I await his and Kris's assesments of the A2/XA2.

"11-25-06, 10:42 PM #1 (Print)
sspears
Dreamer

Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Sammamish, WA, USA
Posts: 4,356

PS3 Objective Measurements
I ran some objective tests on the PS3 today, my results are below. I have included Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba results as well. I only looked at the HDMI to HDMI scenario.

I fed the output of the PS3 (and other players) into a DVDO VP50 and then into the Marantz VP11S1. I looked at both the 1080p and 1080i outputs.


HDMI Output Format
PS3
R'G'B'

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Toshiba HD-A1
Y’CbCr 4:2:2

Samsung BD-P1000
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Pixel Cropping:
PS3
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Toshiba HD-A1
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Samsung BD-P1000
Left: 8
Top: 2
Right: 1
Bottom: 0
Comments: As you can tell, the Samsung is not able to provide a true 1920x1080 active image. You are only getting 1911x1078 of real picture.

Dynamic Range – HDMI to HDMI
PS3
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips
Comments: The player has built-in picture controls. If you lower contrast down to -4 through -7, it will no longer clip. However, you are compressing the dynamic range. Steps are introduced, which show up as contouring. If you adjust brightness, you can make below black appear. If you do this, you are actually raising the black level of the player. I suspect this clipping may be caused by the bug in the Silicon Image 9030 HDMI transmitter. If they were to output Y’CbCr 4:2:2, it may fix the problem. I recommend you do not change the picture controls.

Toshiba HD-A1
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Samsung BD-P1000
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Luma Resolution
I looked at both horizontal and vertical resolution out to Nyquist. All four players were fine in this regard. There was no apparent roll-off.

Chroma Resolution
PS3
The horizontal Nyquist burst was rolled-off. It was not gone like the BD-10, but not as good as the Samsung and Toshiba.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
The horizontal Nyquist burst was pretty much gray. Something in the player must be filtering out this high resolution information. Vertical was fine.

Toshiba HD-A1
Both horizontal and vertical produced the full resolution out to Nyquist.

Samsung BD-P1000
There was a loss of vertical resolution at Nyquist. I suspect this is caused by the filtering in the Cortez (Genesis/Faroudja) chip.

Chroma Bug
PS3
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

Comments: The upsampling it not high quality, though it is correct. You can see some steps in the chroma. The BD-10 looked better, when it did not have CUE.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

*1.02 FW update - I am not sure what happened, but it now has CUE. I am going to try and locate a 1.0 player just to double check my original results.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from 2-3 chroma bug.

Toshiba HD-A1
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.

Samsung BD-P1000
ICP: This player does include a filter to reduce the ICP artifact. Sadly it is present on both 1080i and 1080p. If a filter is included, it should only exist for the 1080p output.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.

Deinterlacing
The PS3 does not appear to be able to output 1080p when the source is encoded as 1080i. It changes the output resolution back to 1080i while 1080i content is playing. The Panasonic is using the AVC2510 while the Samsung is using the Cortez. Neither player can deinterlace 2-2, but both support 2-3 deinterlacing.

If you have the DVDO VP50, Anthem D2 or the Marantz VP11S1, I highly recommend you use the 1080i output of these players. It will do a better job creating the 1080p image than the players will. "

I have bolded where units failed. As you can see the A1 fails the ICP test and exhibits CUE (unbeknowest to me). Otherwise it beats or meets his rigorous tests.

[mrkrispy]

funny, bestbuy.com lists the A1 and the A2 for $499....hmmmm which to get haha. I am surprised the A1 is even listed, they haven't had them for quite a while...

[kevinca1]

Thread made a sticky

[homerx]

Wow, the A2 is much smaller then the tank that is the A1.


Hopfully HT magazine will take apart a A2 showing the inarrds. I guess less PC like. More like the inside of a DVD player......

[Customgamer1]

Well thats to bad for me because the BB by me around Milwaukee, WI. I asked them and they looked it up and it said the 14th is when the ETA was for them... I really just want to see the demo or have something up so BD does not get all the attention!

[eapleitez]

Can someone explain the CUE issue in layman terms? Is it a big deal? Seems like the A1 had it and no one cared, so I guess it's not something we will notice if we don't look for it?

[rover2002]

rover, very very few today, but a strong and steady flow is expected over the next few weeks.

-Robert
Thanks Rob.I was actully after the number they have on whole, i'm sure they will release it eventully.

[Mark0]

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for the door to open if you press the Eject button when power is off?

[Sam S]

Is the A2 still made in Japan like the A1?

[Forceflow]

Can someone explain the CUE issue in layman terms? Is it a big deal? Seems like the A1 had it and no one cared, so I guess it's not something we will notice if we don't look for it?

CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) is an error created when the MPEG decoder only provides color for every other line in a display. This is really noticable in color saturated presentations like digital animation and other dense, solid color blocks.

That's CUE in a nutshell. Check out this link for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html

[eapleitez]

CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) is an error created when the MPEG decoder only provides color for every other line in a display. This is really noticable in color saturated presentations like digital animation and other dense, solid color blocks.

That's CUE in a nutshell. Check out this link for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html


Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?

[Robert D]

Is the A2 still made in Japan like the A1?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9109168&&#post9109168

"
These first A2s are made by Toshiba in Japan.

They were built in December 2006 as Toshiba produced a new run to replace the first production rather than fixing them. I applaud Toshiba USA and Japan for working so hard and doing things so very well.

-Robert "

[Forceflow]

Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?

Just SD DVD AFAIK.

CUE isn't really a big deal. I mean, its annoying and I wish that 5 years after it was discovered we wouldn't have to discuss it, but there are bigger issues.

The Chroma filtering on all BD units is bad (especially vertical filtering on the sammy). The BTB and WTW issues would annoy me more than CUE as they affect HD and SD. I have CRT so losing BTB and WTW really, really sucks. I think the Tosh runs hot, but I can't imagine having a unit fail BTB, it would be returned for negating one huge benefit of CRT. The sammy clipping some pixels would annoy fixed pixel display owners, it wouldn't bother me (overscan).

All in all, the Tosh only failed CUE. That's better than all other units on the market. The A2 seems even better, failing on 1 resolution (1080i, the best resolution!). Oh well, hopefully they can fix it without resorting to filtering.

[Charles R]

Playing around I can report a few things...

1. It's much quieter than the A1 (very quiet).
2. HDMI and Component are active at the same time (along with S-Video).
3. From memory the HD image/sound appear very close (the same?) to the A1's. I don't play DVDs.
4. So far no hiccups, etc.
5. Turned off it opens the door in about 39 seconds.
6. Overall it responses much faster.
7. The A1's remote works with the A2.
8. The player's firmware is currrent.

[jonnyozero3]

This makes me want an A2. Yum. Can't wait to hear more.

[trgraphics]

Playing around I can report a few things...

1. It's much quieter than the A1 (very quiet).
2. HDMI and Component are active at the same time (along with S-Video).
3. From memory the HD image/sound appear very close (the same?) to the A1's. I don't play DVDs.
4. So far no hiccups, etc.
5. Turned off it opens the door in about 39 seconds.
6. Overall it responses much faster.

Sounds great! Thanks Charles.

[eapleitez]

Just SD DVD AFAIK.


Maybe that was a typo by Kris? He says no CUE with SD DVD, maybe he meant HD DVD? Can you confirm, Kris?

[Clark Burk]

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Kris, Can you explain to me in laymen terms what you mean by "720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P."?

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

CUE doesn't really bother me that much. Actually, I wouldn't be using this player for SD DVDs anyway.

For those with HD-A1 audio lag issues, please be sure to tell us if the A2 has the same behaviour on the same discs.

[bfdtv]

Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?The Toshiba HD-A1, Toshiba HD-A2, Samsung BD-P1000, Panasonic DMP-BD10, and Sony BDP-S1 all suffer from CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) with their current firmware version.

It's not specific to the A2 by any means, although it would be nice if Toshiba could get that fixed.

[dlhoppe]

CUE doesn't really bother me that much. Actually, I wouldn't be using this player for SD DVDs anyway.

For those with HD-A1 audio lag issues, please be sure to tell us if the A2 has the same behaviour on the same discs.

Sounds like the CUE bug is in the VC1 interlaced code only. I wonder just how noticable it is during normal viewing.

[Forceflow]

Maybe that was a typo by Kris? He says no CUE with SD DVD, maybe he meant HD DVD? Can you confirm, Kris?

I think the CUE may be in the HD, not the SD if Kris says HD DVD. I knew there was some confusion earlier and I didn't stick around to care about whether it was in the HD or SD. I was too hopeful that it was the SD (I could live with that).

I would wait for confirmation from him before concluding it.

[1loudsuv]

Sounds like the CUE bug is in the VC1 interlaced code only. I wonder just how noticable it is during normal viewing.
it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9109134&&#post9109134

[Robert D]

it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9109134&&#post9109134

Would the players have a better picture quality if they didn't have CUE?

[dlhoppe]

it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9109134&&#post9109134

CUE is the result of a decoder logic flaw, right? The MPEG decoder used on the Tosh for DVD does not seem to have the logic flaw. Blu-ray is based on MPEG, right? The CUE problems with them is their MPEG decoder logic. The VC1 decoder in the Tosh is where the problem seems to be since it only shows in the 1080i output from HD disks. Maybe it's a "conversion" error (1080p to 1080i) after the decoding takes place, since conversion to 720p does not show the CUE symptoms. It'll be interesting to hear if there are issues in the XA2 with 1080p output.

[TWISTED BULLET]

Wow thats great news because I should be getting the 1080p version when it comes out.

Quick question - How is the detail? Sharper, smoother? And how are the colors, do they appear the same? And are you having any lip sync issues?

[Rota]

I was able to pick one up at BBY. This is my first HD DVD player. I'm watching Riddick right now and am very happy.

Regarding the loudness/quietness of the A2. I happen to have the player only about 4 or 5 feet from me while watching. I have never noticed the sound of my standard DVD player during quite portions of a movie. I do, however, notice the sound coming from the A2. It's not terribly loud or anything, but I do notice it. Is it possible my A2 is louder than it should be? Or is it reasonable to expect this HD DVD player to be somewhat louder than my old standard Toshiba DVD player?

[Kris Deering]

SD DVD didn't show signs of CUE. 1080i did with an HD DVD test disc, 720P did not.

[uzun]

Kris, were you able to test the A2 with an HDMI->DVI cable, using a DVI display or video processor? Does the A2 clip head / toe room when connected to a DVI device? Are the white/black levels correct when the A2 is connected to a DVI device?

[vdmai]

When switching input on the display, does the A2 drops the video connection like A1?

[swifty7]

so far the A2 seems to be doing swell. :D

[bfdtv]

Kris,

IIRC, your Toshiba HD-A1 DVD tests showed CUE. Does that mean the A2 is an improvement, as far as DVD playback goes?

[uzun]

Kris, How would the A2 fare in your opinion as a 480i device for playing SD-DVDs through a video processor (compared to say the Oppo 970HD)? Do you have to manually set the output resolution down to 480i for sd-dvd's and back to 1080i for HD-DVD's or does the player remember the SD and HD-DVD output resolutions separately?

[slider33]

You should file a lawsuit against that store. They raised your expectations and made you expend wear and tear on your car and use gas that isn't cheap. They should at least reimburse you for the gas and emotional distress.

:rolleyes:

[williamtassone]

charles

can i stay at your house this xmas?

[azmodien]

39 seconds sounds damn slow. Doesn't seem like it is worth the upgrade speed wise.

[hmurchison]

39 seconds sounds damn slow. Doesn't seem like it is worth the upgrade speed wise.

It sounds like the player boots up and then opens the drawer. They likely could have had the drawer open it immediately and then after the player boots up the disc begins to play. If you leave your player on you don't have to worry about this. These should run cooler than the HD-A1s.

[DigitalOBX]

That's sure is a nice looking unit... :) might have to put my HDA1 up for sale - Scratch that, I need 5.1 analogs - Rats :(

[Bill Mac]

WHere do you download those BB 10% coupons?

I also would like to know where you can get these.

Bill

[hdtvhdtv]

Here is an important question. Does the A2 come up with HDMI error when switching display unit (i.e. Optoma HD70) to another output? This I felt was the most annoying issue with the A1.

Also, does it have resume feature?

[derekjsmith]

Does the A2 have a auto native resolution option? What about 480i over HDMI?

All I want it to do is just output what is on the disk and let my VP do all of the work.

[Dave Mack]

Woah! The only digital audio out is optical?!?!?!?

grrrr......

[Krammer1]

Does the player display the time when it is off?

Thanks.

[rwestley]

Does the A2 pass blacker than black? Does anyone know what version of HDMI they are using?

[PooperScooper]

Woah! The only digital audio out is optical?!?!?!?

grrrr......
And HDMI.

larry

[plazman]

Resume is NOT a player but a movie function. So far any HD DVD disk that uses HDi will not resume after it is stopped. Nothing Toshiba or hardware vendor can do. All disks, including HD DVD that do not use HDi, resume works like normal. AFAIK.

[Schlotkins]

SD DVD didn't show signs of CUE. 1080i did with an HD DVD test disc, 720P did not.

Did the original A1 exhibit CUE with HD-DVDs at 1080i? That's the question now. Honestly, this player is replacing a Toshiba SD-6200 which has the CUE problem as well (and it's never bugged me), but I'm just comparing to the previous generation. Seems silly to take a step back in PQ.

Also, if I'm reading things correctly, at 720p, the player is only using 1920x540 to convert the image so it's not going to have CUE at 720p no matter what.

Chris

[blackbill]

I doubt it... but I'll ask anyway...

Has anybody tried a homeburned HD DVD in the A2 yet? I know it works in the A1's and NOT in xbox360.... but the A2's???

[wired1]

Yeah, the lack of analog on this unit makes it a no go for me. Too, though. It sure is perty.

Maybe when I upgrade my receiver in a year. Hopefully the A1 lasts untill then.

*knock on wood, no issues since April* ;)

[luismanrara]

Woah! The only digital audio out is optical?!?!?!?

grrrr......

I own the HD-1, and I want to buy this unit, but only optical out? I do not know of a a dvd player, even the ones that cost $40.00, not having a coaxial output. I really hope is a great performer, because it seems as if this player has been trimmed down big time. :(

[aaronwt]

I doubt it... but I'll ask anyway...

Has anybody tried a homeburned HD DVD in the A2 yet? I know it works in the A1's and NOT in xbox360.... but the A2's???


Home burned discs in the HD DVD format work in my 360 add on. No problems at all.

[JayMan007]

Playing around I can report a few things...

1. It's much quieter than the A1 (very quiet).
2. HDMI and Component are active at the same time (along with S-Video).
3. From memory the HD image/sound appear very close (the same?) to the A1's. I don't play DVDs.
4. So far no hiccups, etc.
5. Turned off it opens the door in about 39 seconds.
6. Overall it responses much faster.
7. The A1's remote works with the A2.
8. The player's firmware is currrent.

Sounds great! Any word on discrete Power ON & OFF?

[c722]

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P.

Is it as bad as the A1/XA1's 720p ? I was under the impression the A1's 720p is upscaled from 480p.

[leibniz]

as stated numerous times around the forum, the optical and hdmi are the only digital audio outputs.

yes, they did drop the coax, but you can get a opt->coax adapter for about $12.

[Buttabean]

so 1080i looks better on this player as of right now then 720p since its not using the right resolution??

[Kris Deering]

Hey Guys,

Yes this player passes BTB and WTW. That is what I mean when I say head and toe room.

I will do some tests tonight and answer most of the questions here. I don't have a display or anything else with a DVI input so I won't be able to test that one.

The initial power on time is still a bit slow, but the load times for the discs is quite a bit faster.

I am going to look at the 720P output compared to the A1 tonight, as I think the 720P out of the A1 was done correctly. But I don't remember off the top of my head. (I run 1080i out since my display is 1080p).

Be patient with me guys, I have A LOT on my schedule right now.

[lastxbr960]

as stated numerous times around the forum, the optical and hdmi are the only digital audio outputs.

yes, they did drop the coax, but you can get a opt->coax adapter for about $12.
This is true, I brought this up as soon as these were announced at Cedia with the same question as the above poster and got the same solution.
I am sure it will come up again as it is a suprise to many(what a dvd player without coax?), even Robert was suprised at Value Electronics.
I think we will see more Players deleteing Coaxial in the future.The A2 is still a great piece even without it or the 5.1 analouge. :)

[Ezra]

The HDMI->DVI question is the only thing keeping me from considering one of these.

[LCD1080]

My receiver has an optical audio in port. If I feed it with the optical audio out port on the A2 will I get sound from the center, front, and right channels? I can live without the two surround channels, but I'd like to get the center channel sound.

[blackbill]

Home burned discs in the HD DVD format work in my 360 add on. No problems at all.

Well... love to know how your doing it because other people can't. Pinnacle system is trying to work this out with microsoft right now.

Words of Mikel Z ( at pinnacle systems):

"We have indeed tested with the XBox360. And no, we haven't had any of our burned DVDs play in the HD player.
BUT...
We're currently working with Microsoft to revolve this, and hopefully there will be a solution soon (I don't know from which end)"



You can find this about half way down in this thread:
http://webboard.pinnaclesys.com/read_messages.asp?lng=1&WebboardID=1&ForumID=1299&ThreadID=287344

[bfdtv]

My receiver has an optical audio in port. If I feed it with the optical audio out port on the A2 will I get sound from the center, front, and right channels?Yes, you will get full 5.1 sound through optical. You will even get 6.1 sound on titles encoded that way.

More technical description....

You'll get DTS 5.1 (or 6.1, depending on the title) @ 1.5Mbps.

Every HD-DVD in existance uses at least Dolby Digital Plus @ 640 Kbps, and many titles use Dolby Digital Plus @ 1.5 Mbps or TrueHD @ 1.5-3.0 Mbps. Through optical output on the A2, you will get this audio run through a DTS 1.5 Mbps transcoder. The sound won't be as good as the output through HDMI, but it is still an upgrade over the Dolby Digital 5.1 you get on DVD.

[For comparison, DVD uses Dolby Digital @ 448 Kbps.]

[mweppner]

Got one! The BB only had 3. I got there a few minutes before opening and there was a crowd outside (small crowd, 15-20). Turns out most were looking for the Wii. So, I was quite happy.

only downside - it will be a Christmas gift from my wife, so no opening it for 17 days!!

[Cooper0103]

So it seems most east coast BB got theirs yesterday.

I live in Texas and they didn't get any yesterday...but said they are "supposed" to have them "no later than the 14th" is what I was told last night. Great.....just after the 12% coupon expires..how nice.

[Likvid]

An interesting question is, how many units does Toshiba spot out each day from their plants right now?

[Schlotkins]

Kris-

Thanks for the information and your time. The only thing I'm worried about is the CUE on 1080i HD-DVDs as thats the resolution I'm going to be outputing at. For some reason, I doubt this would be firmware fixable right?

Chris

[LCD1080]

Yes, you will get full 5.1 sound through optical. You will even get 6.1 sound on titles encoded that way....You'll get DTS 5.1 (or 6.1, depending on the title) @ 1.5MbpsGreat, thank you. If I can get full 5.1 sound on the A2 with my old receiver then I can't see much reason to get the XA2 instead of the A2, at least from the standpoint of sound.

[qz3fwd]

Anyone in the Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana area scored an A2?
Just called BB in Michigan and they said nobody had them in stock yet. Dang.
Willing to travel to score a player this weekend.

[joerod]

I may go and pick one up to keep me company until the XA2 hits...

[qz3fwd]

joerod-have you confirmed any stores have it in the chicago area?

[debyrd]

Is it as bad as the A1/XA1's 720p ? I was under the impression the A1's 720p is upscaled from 480p.

Firmware 2.0 fixed the 720p. I use 720p to my 768p Philips plasma. I don't have any way to make measurements, it just looks better than 1080i for motion.

-Byrd

[Suzook]

Does anyone have a 12% coupon they would like to share?

[rwestley]

Thanks again Kris, Could you also check the upscailing ability if you have time. The A1 was quite good as you know.

[seyak]

I also would like to know where you can get these.

Bill

They are mailed by BB to Rewardszone members and BB credit card holders.

[dlhoppe]

Anyone in the Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana area scored an A2?
Just called BB in Michigan and they said nobody had them in stock yet. Dang.
Willing to travel to score a player this weekend.

I just called the local BB here in SE Wisconsin for you. They have 4 on order, but they haven't arrived yet. Sorry.

[suthrn]

Just plugged in my A2. Watching KK and so far so good. No skips yet. This has been my only problem DVD. Sorry but I don't know too much of the technical stuff so I wont be able to answer too many, if any questions. My BB had 1 more. If I like it I guess the A1 goes back to BB. :)

[uzun]

Kris, when you get the time to look at it, consider how it compares to the Oppo 970HD as a 480i transport for SD-DVD's in terms of video quality. Also does the A2 remember the output resolution you set for SD-DVD's and the resolution you set for HD-DVD's independently, allowing 1080i output for HD-DVD's and 480i output for SD-DVD's without having to change the setting each time you switch between formats?

[billymerritt]

When switching input on the display, does the A2 drops the video connection like A1?
A2 is good on HDMI, example: (can pause movie and use receiver menu to pop up and give audio info then toggle back and A2 will play rest of movie with no loss of video except during toggle to receiver.

[Cooper0103]

suthrn.....how does it sound? I really thought the A1 did a great job with SQ even through the digital connection.

[suthrn]

Not finding a resolution button on the remote so I think I have to stop it and choose another to compare the pic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

[qz3fwd]

I may be travelling this weekend if anyone finds the A2 around Michigan, Ohio, Illinois!
I was hoping Detroit area stores would have them in already and was looking forward to being able to watch the 30 or so titles I already have. Cant wait to watch The Thing(first movie I'm gonna watch), KK, Superman, Batman, ...

[suthrn]

Just got home from BB where I picked up my new A2. There was one left at the store. So far on KK it hasn't paused or skipped yet and my A1 always does one or the other on this movie. It looks great.

[Cam Man]

Does the Lumagen CUE mitigation filter feature solve this 1080i problem?

A Lumagen update also provided for a color space error the A1 had. Was that fixed with the A1 FW 2.0, or is this still a problem and inherited by the XA1?

It's almost worth a trot down to BB to pick up one and see if it passes BTB with DVI.

[Neo1965]

Just plugged in my A2. Watching KK and so far so good. No skips yet. This has been my only problem DVD. Sorry but I don't know too much of the technical stuff so I wont be able to answer too many, if any questions. My BB had 1 more. If I like it I guess the A1 goes back to BB. :)
What about the out-of-synch sound on the hammer scene with BatmanBegins? Is it gone with the A2?

[dlhoppe]

It's almost worth a trot down to BB to pick up one and see if it passes BTB with DVI.

I would be very interested in seeing the result of this test!

[jmpage2]

It would be awfully nice to hear some real movie viewing reports on the audio/video performance of this unit and menu speed.

Rather than a long drawn out discussion on things (CUE, etc) that 99% of users aren't going to notice anyways.

[nightfly13]

I've gathered that turn-on time is 37 seconds (typical male) but how does that compare to the A1? Also 4-8 seconds to load a disc, how does that compare to the A2? I can't image that 37 seconds is twice as fast...

[suthrn]

I just plugged it into the tv, I haven't hooked up the audio yet and KK is the first thing I have looked at. Batman will come later on tonight along with hooking up the stereo. I just wanted to see how it looked and I need to pop in a SD-DVD to check out the upconversion. I watched POTC2 the other night on the A1 and I thought it looked really good so hopefully the A2 is just as good
.

[billymac]

blacker than black?
black crush?
correct colorspace with dvi in chain?

tia

[rover2002]

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for the door to open if you press the Eject button when power is off?
Could you keep the first post updated with Q&A? it sure would be handy :)

[HPforMe]

This player sounds great. Know what is being stated about the "cue" problem and should be addressed by both blu ray and HD DVD manufacturers but right now if it's anything like the A1 in picture quality and halves the load time looks like I may be upgrading especially at the great price.

[WaldorfSalad]

Has anyone been able to get BB to price-match TechDepot's (backordered) price of $399 for the HD-A2?

[eric102]

I've gathered that turn-on time is 37 seconds (typical male) but how does that compare to the A1? Also 4-8 seconds to load a disc, how does that compare to the A2? I can't image that 37 seconds is twice as fast...

I haven't timed my A1 since firmware 1.0, but if I remember correctly startup was around 50seconds and play was around 30 seconds.

[mrkrispy]

AVS should be getting kickbacks from BestBuy, forum members are probably single handedly buying the A2 out of stock!

[Jon Spackman]

I agree,

"Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports!" Sticky thread!

Post some pics too :)


Done :cool:

[hmurchison]

AVS should be getting kickbacks from BestBuy, forum members are probably single handedly buying the A2 out of stock!

Yeah I can just see the Best Buy rep saying "Why do you want that when we have this uber cool Blu-ray over here"

Well it looks like my waiting was right on. I'm going to get an A2 in a month and I'll get 3 movies with it (Blazzing Sadles, Seabiscuit, We Were Soldiers)

Can't beat that with a stick.

[HPforMe]

Here are some pics

Nice indeed!

[PooperScooper]

Done :cool:Now there's 2 stickies on the same subject. :) I think this thread was started first...

larry

[DReilly1]

I have researched alot of the Toshiba HD DVD threads to increase my knowledge base, and do remember the Chroma bug a while back when choosing a SD DVD Player.

Now I hear this "CUE" on this machine for $500, that scares me a bit.

One poster said 99% of the people wont notice the CUE issue, is that true, is it only visible if you look for it, like by pausing the disk or something?

Thanks, as I dont believe I have ever seen the affect of the Chroma bug.

[Mark0]

My HD-A1 takes exactly 60 seconds to eject when the eject button is pressed on the machine from an "off" setting. So the 37 sec. is a great improvement.

Also, it takes about 20-30 seconds once the door is closed to recognize the material, standard DVD being quicker.

[nightfly13]

My HD-A1 takes exactly 60 seconds to eject when the eject button is pressed on the machine from an "off" setting. So the 37 sec. is a great improvement.

Also, it takes about 20-30 seconds once the door is closed to recognize the material, standard DVD being quicker.

You're right that's a great improvement - and I'm a projector user so startup is even less of an issue for me (PJ takes 30 seconds to warm up easily). Quick movie loading (way way way quicker) is huge, imho. Glad I've waited for the A2 :) Thanks for the feedback.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

I have only seen the chroma bug (on DVD players) when I've specifically looked for it.

At least to me, it's definitely not anywhere close to being in the same league as say lip sync issues, combing, compression artifacts, or edge enhancement.

[Forceflow]

I have researched alot of the Toshiba HD DVD threads to increase my knowledge base, and do remember the Chroma bug a while back when choosing a SD DVD Player.

Now I hear this "CUE" on this machine for $500, that scares me a bit.

One poster said 99% of the people wont notice the CUE issue, is that true, is it only visible if you look for it, like by pausing the disk or something?

Thanks, as I dont believe I have ever seen the affect of the Chroma bug.

The CUE is present on BD's $1200 MSRP. It is firmware fixable (it was introduced on firmware for the $1200 unit), I dunno about the Tosh unit though.

It is only visible if you really know what it is or are watching stuff like Toy Story and have a keen eye.

[DReilly1]

The CUE is present on BD's $1200 MSRP. It is firmware fixable (it was introduced on firmware for the $1200 unit), I dunno about the Tosh unit though.

It is only visible if you really know what it is or are watching stuff like Toy Story and have a keen eye.

I wont look for it, LOL. Should have never looked for SSE!

That being said, it should not be a reason not to purchase the A2 then, if no other issues arise?

I know that is somewhat subjective, but it would be a "minor flaw" and not a Dealbreaker per se. Most, if not all can live with it, and not have the experience ruined in any way?

[dialog_gvf]

I have only seen the chroma bug (on DVD players) when I've specifically looked for it.

At least to me, it's definitely not anywhere close to being in the same league as say lip sync issues, combing, compression artifacts, or edge enhancement.

Very true. Still, in 2003 or earlier, Don Munsil and Stacey Spears had this to say:


At this point, the problems with 4:2:0 chroma and decoding are well understood. We've provided specific techniques to fix these problems, and even some source code. There is no excuse for not fixing them, especially now that DVD players without the error are available for under $70. In the future, we will not be recommending any DVD player for video playback if it suffers from this bug.


Gary

[Forceflow]

I wont look for it, LOL. Should have never looked for SSE!

That being said, it should not be a reason not to purchase the A2 then, if no other issues arise?

I know that is somewhat subjective, but it would be a "minor flaw" and not a Dealbreaker per se. Most, if not all can live with it, and not have the experience ruined in any way?

Flaws in products are just that. Some are more annoying for some than others. CUE hasn't affected my enjoyment thus far in one bit. It may affect you.

SSE is a dealbreaker for me along with a large host of other issues. I wouldn't forgo purchasing an HD DVD player or a BD player because of CUE. Other issues with players are much more noticable and affect your experience more, but again, different people scale flaws in different ways. Chances are if you've owned a DVD player pre-2001, you've dealt with CUE and never knew it. Maybe you still have a player with it.

[Lodef]

Yeah, I noticed this too. But maybe it's best because I'm sure there will be a lot of post in the coming days and it will be easier looking at two instead of one long thread.

[kevinca1]

Ok should we try to merge them then?

[Mark0]

yes, merge threads please :)

[Lodef]

Ok should we try to merge them then?

To me it doesn't matter, but maybe less confusion with just one.

[kevinca1]

Ok threads merged.

[Mark0]

You're right that's a great improvement - and I'm a projector user so startup is even less of an issue for me (PJ takes 30 seconds to warm up easily). Quick movie loading (way way way quicker) is huge, imho. Glad I've waited for the A2 :) Thanks for the feedback.


I just popped in the Eagles, Live from Melbourne into my A1 and it took nearly 50 seconds for the HD DVD to start playing :(.
I'm still pondering whether to upgrade or not. If I get the A2, I'll need another new receiver.... :eek:

[hdgeek]

I was once an owner of the SD-6200 and Toy Story used to drive me crazy once I noticed the CUE. Of course, like anything else I kept looking for it in future movies. Is the CUE on HD material less noticeable than it was on old players? Still going to get the A2 but just curious.

[nred1]

I am new to HD players but have had a oppo 971 for some time and have been very happy with it.

I wanted to jump into HD for a reasonable cost and the Toshiba was right up my alley. My intention was to replace the Oppo entirely and use the Toshiba for all of my SD DVD's but I am now concerned.

I have the Silicon Optix HQV test disk (evaluates video processing) that I used on the Toshiba, set to output 720p via HDMI into my panasonic 58" 600u plasma and it failed every test while the Oppo via DVI passes with flying colors.

I did not expect this, as everybody has always regarded the Toshiba HD-DVD players as excellent SD players.

Am I missing something?
Do I need a dedicated SD player? or Do I need a stand alone Video processor.

Will setting the output from the toshiba for SD discs to 480i/p help?

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

HD looks amazing, watching Superman returns as we speak!!

[HPforMe]

Enough with the CUE already. Ok we know it's there because we're told it is and yet I never noticed "it" before. It wouldn't effect my purchase of this player anymore than it would a blu ray player. Send an email to Toshiba or I'm sure they can look on this site.

Now. We need to know just basic facts some have been answered:

(1) Picture Quality as compared to A1
(2) Sound quality through HDMI or optical
(3) Skipping issues, sound drop-outs
(4) How does it look like in upconversion
(5) Speed issues - load up time, etc.
(6) Any HDMI-DVI issues.

etc.

[Cooper0103]

Here here for what HPforME said!

I'm ready to find out as well.

[Tolstoi]

Kris, How would the A2 fare in your opinion as a 480i device for playing SD-DVDs through a video processor (compared to say the Oppo 970HD)? Do you have to manually set the output resolution down to 480i for sd-dvd's and back to 1080i for HD-DVD's or does the player remember the SD and HD-DVD output resolutions separately?


Really good question.

[billymac]

(6) Any HDMI-DVI issues.

put a gold star next to that one!!!

???

[swifty7]

I can't wait for all the important questions to get answered.

[Rota]

It would be awfully nice to hear some real movie viewing reports on the audio/video performance of this unit and menu speed.

Rather than a long drawn out discussion on things (CUE, etc) that 99% of users aren't going to notice anyways.

My impressions are probably not what you are looking for exactly, since I'm so green to the hi-def realm. But, for anyone interested...

To me, the picture looks just about as perfect as you can get. I only have 1 HD DVD at this point, however, and it's Chronicles of Riddick. I don't understand all the technical terminoligy yet, but I feel I am pretty picky and notice small details or problems in the image quality. I am watching CoR in 720p on a 768p HDTV. To my eyes, the image looks virtually flawless.

I also watched Flight Plan SD DVD with the A2 set to 720p output. Previously I had viewed it using a Samsung upconverting player. I did notice a pretty significant different between the A2 and the upconverting Samsung. On the Samsung I noticed that edges between two different colored areas in an out-of-focus background had a strange pixelated effect, and there was prononounced "posterizing" effects now and then, as well as what I think is referred to as "macroblocking" in dark areas of the pictures (the dark areas would have ever so slightly "lighter black" areas of moving blocks). All of these negative effects seem to not show up using the A2. So I am quite pleased with it. Unfortunately I am comparing it to what was probably a pretty crappy upconverting DVD player instead of the A1.

I don't have a separate sound system, so I can't comment on the sound.

There doesn't appear to be a clock that shows when the unit is powered off. (Someone asked about that).

I didn't time the startup or load times. But I didn't feel like I was waiting long for anything, really. I was worried, hearing about the complaints on the A1 in this area.

All in all, I personally couldn't be happier with it so far. Just one layman's perspective.

[Forceflow]

I timed my A1, it takes 32 seconds before the unit will eject after pressing the on button (1080i light comes on at 28 seconds, 3-4 seconds later you can eject, it takes 1 second for the tray to eject).

SD DVD takes a further 14 seconds to load if it is present in tray at time of pressing on (46 seconds before image pops up). The SD DVD was a burned SD DVD, perhaps that is why it took longer than I remember SDs taking.

HD DVD takes a full 65 seconds from on until playing image (tested w/ KK). It takes longer if no disc is present and you have to eject and load a disc.

In total SD is almost 20 seconds faster than HD.

[Ezra]

Rota, how were you connected to your display? (DVI, HDMI, Component)

[Rota]

Rota, how were you connected to your display? (DVI, HDMI, Component)

I was connected using HDMI. Haven't tried component yet, but I will since I have some cables. Don't have a DVI cable or converter.

[John Ballentine]

Does A2 have:
1) Time remaining on-screen-display in HD-DVD mode?
2) Chapter skip "on screen chapter indication" in HD-DVD mode (displays current chapter as you skip ahead) ?
3) Any loss or delay in audio during chapter skipping?
Thanks for checking...

[Ace of Space]

Anyone have a download link to the A2 manual? I checked Toshibas American website, no luck.

[Bill Mac]

They are mailed by BB to Rewardszone members and BB credit card holders.

seyak,

Thanks for the information. I have a BB card but have not received any coupons. Maybe I should give them a call.

Bill

[HPforMe]

Holy. 9,780 views as of 3:18 central Dec.8. Lots of interest in this player.

[Charles R]

Now. We need to know just basic facts some have been answered:

(1) Picture Quality as compared to A1
(2) Sound quality through HDMI or optical
(3) Skipping issues, sound drop-outs
(4) How does it look like in upconversion
(5) Speed issues - load up time, etc.
(6) Any HDMI-DVI issues.

1. From memory I couldn't pick one from the other.
2. Via optical again I couldn't tell one from the other.
3. None so far.
4. I don't play DVDs but AVIA looked about the same.
5. Overall simply quicker. Not a speed demon but much better.
6. I'm using HDMI-DVI fine. I'm not getting BTB but it might be my projector as the DVI input is PC based not Video. My Contrast and Brightness settings ended up the same as for the A1.

My considered opinion is the A2 is better but outside of the being hiccup free (which hasn't been established yet) there isn't a night and day difference. Just a new improved model.

[gocam]

I'd be interested in this also - I am curious if I can replace my 971 with the A2, but I think I am going to be happy just keeping the two together - you are running 720p out of your 971, right ? And 720p for HD material (or 1080i) ?

Curious,
-g.

I am new to HD players but have had a oppo 971 for some time and have been very happy with it.

I wanted to jump into HD for a reasonable cost and the Toshiba was right up my alley. My intention was to replace the Oppo entirely and use the Toshiba for all of my SD DVD's but I am now concerned.

I have the Silicon Optix HQV test disk (evaluates video processing) that I used on the Toshiba, set to output 720p via HDMI into my panasonic 58" 600u plasma and it failed every test while the Oppo via DVI passes with flying colors.

I did not expect this, as everybody has always regarded the Toshiba HD-DVD players as excellent SD players.

Am I missing something?
Do I need a dedicated SD player? or Do I need a stand alone Video processor.

Will setting the output from the toshiba for SD discs to 480i/p help?

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

HD looks amazing, watching Superman returns as we speak!!

[billymac]

6. I'm using HDMI-DVI fine. I'm not getting BTB but it might be my projector as the DVI input is PC based not Video. My Contrast and Brightness settings ended up the same as for the A1.

hhmmm, not good. what display? dvi at display or switch and/or adatper in chain?

[joffer]

how do you test for BTB?

[suthrn]

I am by no means an expert and I haven't ran any type of test, but to my good enough for the military eyes, the upconversion looks good. I watched Pirates of The Caribbean 2 Wed. on the A1 and am watching it now and think it looks just as good. Again, no expert here, just my 2 cents.

[Forceflow]

how do you test for BTB?

test pattern.

[nred1]

I am new to HD players but have had a oppo 971 for some time and have been very happy with it.

I wanted to jump into HD for a reasonable cost and the Toshiba was right up my alley. My intention was to replace the Oppo entirely and use the Toshiba for all of my SD DVD's but I am now concerned.

I have the Silicon Optix HQV test disk (evaluates video processing) that I used on the Toshiba, set to output 720p via HDMI into my panasonic 58" 600u plasma and it failed every test while the Oppo via DVI passes with flying colors.

I did not expect this, as everybody has always regarded the Toshiba HD-DVD players as excellent SD players.

Am I missing something?
Do I need a dedicated SD player? or Do I need a stand alone Video processor.

Will setting the output from the toshiba for SD discs to 480i/p help?

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

HD looks amazing, watching Superman returns as we speak!!

I'd be interested in this also - I am curious if I can replace my 971 with the A2, but I think I am going to be happy just keeping the two together - you are running 720p out of your 971, right ? And 720p for HD material (or 1080i) ?

Curious,
-g.



I was running 720p out of the 971 and 720p out of the A2 although 1080i did not exhibit much difference on the A2 to me with my display.

I did find that the HQV tests actually improved when I used 480i out of the A2. But on all other output resolutions they were the same. (pretty bad)

I really wanted to use this player as my "universal player" but until somebody can shed some light on this or replicate my results I may continue using the 971 for SD.

[Kid Red]

nred1- So the A2 failed 720p but did it fail 1080i? Also, these failed tests, how are they applied to real world viewing? I had the A1 briefly and was floored with how good the SD DVD playback was. Even if it failed your tests, if it's as good as the A1, the A2 should be fine on SD DVD for me.

[dlhoppe]

I was running 720p out of the 971 and 720p out of the A2 although 1080i did not exhibit much difference on the A2 to me with my display.

I did find that the HQV tests actually improved when I used 480i out of the A2. But on all other output resolutions they were the same. (pretty bad)

I really wanted to use this player as my "universal player" but until somebody can shed some light on this or replicate my results I may continue using the 971 for SD.

Are you using the SD HQV? I didn't think the HD version was released yet.

[gocam]

On a related note - I've been doing some tests of 480i out of a 970 into my plasma (5070), and have been less delighted than I expected to be with the results, although it still looks good of course - the color and sharpness seems fine, but I notice considerable combing and other artifacts, which tells me I think that the deinterlacer on the 971 is better than that my plasma (Yes - I tested in ADV mode). I will continue testing this weekend.

And it sounds like in your case, it is probably better than your A2 ? D-Nice has found otherwise, and recommends 480i out via HDMI when you can get it as it means one less conversion that the plasma has to do - basically your plasma will be the only point doing scaling and deinterlacing.

-g

p.s. one other note - it is really hard to do (for me at any rate!) but I am trying hard to balance the scientific numbers with my intuition for what 'feels' to be a better picture to me. And ultimately that is the most important thing you should shoot for regardless (but taking into account to some degree of course) of the spec numbers. Trust your instinct and you will be fine.

I was running 720p out of the 971 and 720p out of the A2 although 1080i did not exhibit much difference on the A2 to me with my display.

I did find that the HQV tests actually improved when I used 480i out of the A2. But on all other output resolutions they were the same. (pretty bad)

I really wanted to use this player as my "universal player" but until somebody can shed some light on this or replicate my results I may continue using the 971 for SD.

[mr. wally]

i've read the whole thread and still am not sure if the a2 upconverts sd dvds as well as the a1. from what i read, it does not sound that it does it as well as the a2. can other owners post their opinions. i'm thinking of cancelling my order.

[schroedk]

i've read the whole thread and still am not sure if the a2 upconverts sd dvds as well as the a1. from what i read, it does not sound that it does it as well as the a2. can other owners post their opinions. i'm thinking of cancelling my order.

You've come to the exact opposite conclusion of upconversion as I have, based on reading these threads. I'm still waiting for my pre-ordered unit to come, but based on this thread it sounds like the A2 does upconversion as well as the A1. However, I agree with you that no one has really definitively stated whether or not it does. I would like a couple owners to just say 1) yes, it upconverts SD as well as the A1 (I don't care how it compares to the Oppo or Denon, just compare it to the A1 if able), or 2) no, it doesn't upconvert as well as the A1.

However, seeing as people have only gotten the unit yesterday or today, I really wouldn't jump to conclusions and cancel your order. That's up to you, though.

[T-smith]

just picked an A2 up from Best Buy...I have one on order with VE but mine hasnt shipped yet. I stopped by Best Buy and they had some in that just came off the truck so I grabbed one

so far it doesnt seem to be much different then the A1 except the build of course. The setup screen is exactly the same and the PQ looks the same but so far Ive only tried The Mummy which probably isnt the best movie to try. The waiting for the tray to open and the movie to start is faster but I havent timed it yet.

[Kid Red]

T-Smith- PLEASE can you pop in a few SD DVDs and report back your thoughts of PQ?

We need someone who has the A1 or had the A1 to comment on SD DVD playback so I know whether I should run out to BB and grab one !! :)

[plazman]

I have an XA 1 and picked one up today.

1. Unit shipped by air from Las Vegas to Dulles! Store sold 4 today itself.

2. hdmi implementation is much better. Turning off display does not kill the player like on the XA 1.

3. Start up is faster but main difference is that it plays without the hdmi handshake screens and functions like a regular player.

4. SD DVD upconversion to 1080i looks better! HD DVD looks slightly less darker on my display. So it appears a little brighter.

5. Build quality is horrible compared to the XA1. Very cheap materials.

6. Using optical outs audio is fine.

7. So far it seems very stable.

I'm shocked at how cheap looking this product it. JMHO. The Xbox drive seems better built to me.

Performance seems really good.

[T-smith]

T-Smith- PLEASE can you pop in a few SD DVDs and report back your thoughts of PQ?

We need someone who has the A1 or had the A1 to comment on SD DVD playback so I know whether I should run out to BB and grab one !! :)

I have to grab some dinner but I popped Star Wars III in and it looks to be the same PQ as the A1. Obviously thats just one movie and only the opening 10 minutes or so but I dont see a difference

[Kid Red]

Good enough to go ahead and see for myself, thanks. I can't see how it would be worse, the same is really what I was hoping for because the A1 was an awesome upconverting SD DVD player.

[dlhoppe]

I havr amd XA 1 and picked one up today.

1. Unit shipped by air from Las Vegas to Dulles! Store sold 4 today itself.

2. hdmi implementation is much better. Turning off display does not kill the player like on the XA 1.

3. Start up is faster but main difference is that it plays without the hdmi handshake screens and functions like a regular player.

4. SD DVD upconversion to 1080i looks better! HD DVD looks slightly less darker on my display. So it appears a little brighter.

5. Build quality is horrible compared to the XA1. Very cheap materials.

6. Using optical outs audio is fine.

7. So far it seems very stable.

I'm shocked at how cheap looking this product it. JMHO. The Xbox drive seems better built to me.

Performance seems really good.

Plazman, thanks. Since you've brought up the quality factor, can you share your opinion on the disk tray mechanism? Does that look and feel weak and flimsy, or is it stout? How about the motor drive? I can live with the plastic faceplate and such. I only care about the mechanics and electronics. All my equipment is behind doors, so the look of it won't matter at all.

[John Ballentine]

I havr amd XA 1 and picked one up today.

1. Unit shipped by air from Las Vegas to Dulles! Store sold 4 today itself.

2. hdmi implementation is much better. Turning off display does not kill the player like on the XA 1.

3. Start up is faster but main difference is that it plays without the hdmi handshake screens and functions like a regular player.

4. SD DVD upconversion to 1080i looks better! HD DVD looks slightly less darker on my display. So it appears a little brighter.

5. Build quality is horrible compared to the XA1. Very cheap materials.

6. Using optical outs audio is fine.

7. So far it seems very stable.

I'm shocked at how cheap looking this product it. JMHO. The Xbox drive seems better built to me.

Performance seems really good.

very stable is good!
Wonder if the XA2 is gonna be better built? Can't find the weight spec on either unit ...?

[kanefsky]

I'm shocked at how cheap looking this product it. JMHO. The Xbox drive seems better built to me.

Hopefully that means that the profit margin is good on this product and there's room to drop the price to gain market share.

--
Steve

[plazman]

Actually the mechanism itself is solid and therefore it highlights the flimsiness of the plastic cover.

The operability itself is good. So, I'm keeping it....My XA 1 was exposed. This will be hidden for sure.

[jorgerod]

First Things First.

Any Baltimore Residents looking for a unit. There is one left at the White Marsh Mall BB.

I just came from there and they had a A2 running Apollo 13 on a Westy 32"LCD Thankfully the store was packed with christmas shoppers so I was left alone to play with the unit. I turned it off, Turned it on, ejected the disc skipped chapters played with the menu. even looked at the firmware numbers on the box. I have to say that it is a very nice player and it certaintly is nice to see how fast it is to load or even stop playback compared to the A1. I was definitely tempted to buy the unit except for its lack of Analog outputs which is definitely a deal breaker for me.

Kudos to Toshiba on a very nice unit. I won't get a new unit until G3 are on the scene but it is nice to see the product is getting better all the time.

Jorge

[dlhoppe]

Actually the mechanism itself is solid and therefore it highlights the flimsiness of the plastic cover.

The operability itself is good. So, I'm keeping it....My XA 1 was exposed. This will be hidden for sure.

Sounds good. Thanks.

[nred1]

I am new to HD players but have had a oppo 971 for some time and have been very happy with it.

I wanted to jump into HD for a reasonable cost and the Toshiba was right up my alley. My intention was to replace the Oppo entirely and use the Toshiba for all of my SD DVD's but I am now concerned.

I have the Silicon Optix HQV test disk (evaluates video processing) that I used on the Toshiba, set to output 720p via HDMI into my panasonic 58" 600u plasma and it failed every test while the Oppo via DVI passes with flying colors.

I did not expect this, as everybody has always regarded the Toshiba HD-DVD players as excellent SD players.

Am I missing something?
Do I need a dedicated SD player? or Do I need a stand alone Video processor.

Will setting the output from the toshiba for SD discs to 480i/p help?

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

HD looks amazing, watching Superman returns as we speak!!

nred1- So the A2 failed 720p but did it fail 1080i? Also, these failed tests, how are they applied to real world viewing? I had the A1 briefly and was floored with how good the SD DVD playback was. Even if it failed your tests, if it's as good as the A1, the A2 should be fine on SD DVD for me.


To clarify, I used the SD HQV disc using all of the resolution outputs of the A2 and found that it failed on all outputs except for 480i (in which it did better). I was using this test to assess the video processing prowess of the A2 as compared to the 971

I would like to say that despite my findings in my system, it does not take away from my full enjoyment of the SD DVD viewing experience. This was purely an intellectual excercise for comparison.

I acknowledge that I may not be doing something "right" with my "scientific" eval.

More knowledgeable people will hopefully chime in with more specifics.

[Ja Phule]

To clarify, I used the SD HQV disc using all of the resolution outputs of the A2 and found that it failed on all outputs except for 480i (in which it did better). I was using this test to assess the video processing prowess of the A2 as compared to the 971

I would like to say that despite my findings in my system, it does not take away from my full enjoyment of the SD DVD viewing experience. This was purely an intellectual excercise for comparison.

I acknowledge that I may not be doing something "right" with my "scientific" eval.

More knowledgeable people will hopefully chime in with more specifics.

At 480i, it's not the player that is being tested but your display's (assuming you have a lcd/plasma/dlp) video processing that is passing the test.

[metalsaber]

THese seem to be selling quite well at BB. I was in there browsing to see if they had any A2s, and a guy stopped buy and picked one up and also picked up the Sony BD player. He is going to have a nice holidays. The kid working the store said that he might have to restock the shelves again with A2 players. Just as I was walking away, I saw him carrying another one over to the register. Looks like he was going to restock after all.

So just 10mins in BB and I saw 2 sold. I really wanted to buy one, but I'll wait for mine order to arrive on Monday. :(

[nred1]

a few comments after spending some more time with the player.

A compliment to the player would be that I had no experience with the A1 and this player works just like any other player, ie no overt quirks.

SD DVD's look great and look almost HD, the best example being the Lost DVD set.

I actually like the sound option for button presses on the remote.

The sound of the tray as it ejects is very "cheap/screechy"

The display on the unit is very nice, bright and dimmable.

Despite my attempt at evaluating this player with test discs, and very unscientific unsatisfactory results, I am enjoying it enough to make it my primary player and my oppo 971 will find a home upstairs.

I am going to put in U571 now and turn up the sub. cya

[nred1]

At 480i, it's not the player that is being tested but your display's (assuming you have a lcd/plasma/dlp) video processing that is passing the test.


Thats a good point, I had not thought of that, but it makes sense. I guess the panasonic TV may have better video processing than the A2 with the HQV disc. Regardless It is now set at 720p via HDMI and my eyes are watering from watching too much TV!!

[alfbinet]

Hopefully that means that the profit margin is good on this product and there's room to drop the price to gain market share.

--
Steve

And hopefully we will hear the end of the "subsidized" mantra on these threads.

[YONEXSP]

Any ideas yet whether this unit has the Black Crush issue?

[aaronwt]

I set up my A2 and I noticed it doesn't send 96khz pcm over HDMI. On my A1 as soon as a disc starts playing, 96Khz pcm 3/2.1 pops up. On the A2 it stays at multi channel in. There odes seem to be a difference in audio. The A2 is louder but I think it might sound a little better than the A1 since it send the PCM signal in 96khz. What does anyone else think? It does seem like a cheap design but I can't complain since it only cost me $360 from BB after discounts.

[Ezra]

C'mon SSpears... can't believe you dont have the test results posted yet :)

[Ryan T.]

I set up my A2 and I noticed it doesn't send 96khz pcm over HDMI. On my A1 as soon as a disc starts playing, 96Khz pcm 3/2.1 pops up. On the A2 it stays at multi channel in. There odes seem to be a difference in audio. The A2 is louder but I think it might sound a little better than the A1 since it send the PCM signal in 96khz. What does anyone else think? It does seem like a cheap design but I can't complain since it only cost me $360 from BB after discounts.
What discounts did you get?

[swifty7]

hmmmmm! we need more HQV test, so far is looking pretty good for the new Tosh.

[bfdtv]

I set up my A2 and I noticed it doesn't send 96khz pcm over HDMI. On my A1 as soon as a disc starts playing, 96Khz pcm 3/2.1 pops up. On the A2 it stays at multi channel in. There odes seem to be a difference in audio. The A2 is louder but I think it might sound a little better than the A1 since it send the PCM signal in 96khz. What does anyone else think? It does seem like a cheap design but I can't complain since it only cost me $360 from BB after discounts.Can you clarify? With which player do you see the 96Khz message?

On the A1, all audio is sent at 24/96. When there is nothing to mix in, null data (i.e. zeros) is added. If you aren't seeing that 96Khz message with the A2, it may pass the signal unmodified when there is not interactive audio to mix in.

Can you try an IME title and see if you get a different message during the director commentary?