JL Audio Fathom 12" Sub

[kgb540]

I'd like to hear some members chime in on the F112, it seems to be lost under the press of the 113. I purchased both JL's and side by side I can hardly tell any difference. maybe the F113 digs a bit deeper and plays a little louder too, but so far I am as impressed with the F112 as the 113........maybe even a little more so. what wonderful products! My DD-15 is soon to be on the second hand market (no offense Velo, the DD IS a world-class performer) but these JL's have ushered in a new era. One thing about these subs that I thought might be exaggerated is their immense weight. HOLY SHITE!! No exaggeration at all! These things are incredible!

[TJEli]

I would like to hear a direct comparison from you (if you dont mind) of the F112 vs the DD-15. Performance and sound between the Fathoms and the DDs has been very similar with people leaning both directions. It is a great testimate to the Fathoms that they can play on a DDs level.

I have not heard an F112... but I would like to.

-Eli

[MKtheater]

TJEli ,

Can you give me your honest opinion about the jl audio vs 2 PB12/plus/2s. Is the bass that much better from the jl audio? I use the SVS strictly for movies. Movies only. Thanks

[TJEli]

TJEli ,

Can you give me your honest opinion about the jl audio vs 2 PB12/plus/2s. Is the bass that much better from the jl audio? I use the SVS strictly for movies. Movies only. Thanks

The best way to answer that is "it depends". I PMed you with a more in depth answer.

-Eli

[Richard Mayer]

The best way to answer that is "it depends". I PMed you with a more in depth answer.

-Eli
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Care to PM me too?

[rockemsockem]

Me too?

[BrutalBodyShots]

That must be some serious 12" driver if it can potentially outdo FOUR 12" PB SVS drivers.

[bgillyjcu]

Can you just post what you wrote in here.

I would love to see some info on a SINGLE sub that can reach what 2 PB12/plus/2s.

Now that would be something amazing.

[craigsub]

Gents, The single Fathom 113 will not play louder than a pair of SVS PB12-Plus/2's. I don't recall anyone ever making that claim.

However, there is more to a subwoofer's performance than SPL.

[ransac]

You could compare the two in terms of real estate cost. In California, homes are going for about $200 per sq/ft. So the F113 would have a $300 land cost and two +/2 would have about $1200 in land cost. :)

[bgillyjcu]

The words better, louder

They are so general when talking about a sub and how it performs.

So we have to comepare apples to apples.

How does a SINGLE F112 or F113 match up with a comparable SVS sub. What is the comparable SVS sub that matches up with it in terms of Sound Quality, Bass Output, SPL...

F112 vs which SVS

F113 vs which SVS

That is what I am interested in.

[ransac]

I listened to a DD18 and an F113 this weekend at another forum members home. I will be writing up my impressions sometime this week. It will be just a DD18 comparo to the F113 and I won't add my +/2 into the mix.

I don't have Craigs experience, but the one thing I did notice was how different the voice of the sealed subs were compared to a ported sub. The sealed subs were more musical (I now know what people mean by that) and ported subs are more ... throaty.

Just keep an eye out for my write up. I will try to explain in more detail.

[jhan1000]

The words better, louder

They are so general when talking about a sub and how it performs.

So we have to comepare apples to apples.

How does a SINGLE F112 or F113 match up with a comparable SVS sub. What is the comparable SVS sub that matches up with it in terms of Sound Quality, Bass .

But can't the same argument of vague be made for the term sound quality? Sound quality will mean different things to different people in different environments.

Just a thought. :)

[bgillyjcu]

What I found
F112 12 inch woofer, 1500Watts (short-term)
F113 13 inch woofer, 2500Watts (short-term)
I find no reference after quickly scanning the website and the PDF manual for any Frequency Reponse charts.

-Fathom f112: $2200
-Fathom f113: $2800

So for the money

We have to compare these subs to
SVS PB-12 ULTRA for $1200
SVS PB-12 ULTRA/2 for $2000

So how do these babies match up?

[bgillyjcu]

But can't the same argument of vague be made for the term sound quality? Sound quality will mean different things to different people in different environments.

Just a thought. :)


Very true! I always like when people start thinking about the vocabulary we use. Thanks :)

[TJEli]

First of all, my experience with the JL is with the F113 NOT the F112.

Since others asked, here is the PM I sent...

"I am a HUGE SVS supporter and will be for life. What I can tell you is this.... the F113 sounds better but does not have as much headroom as dual +/2s. The F113 extends lower and sounds better doing it. If I am watching a movie at -10 or lower, then yes I can say the single F113 sounds better. Any louder than that in my room and a second F113 would be needed to match the output of the dual +/2s.

Now, take this all for what it is worth. The Plus/2 is a VERY VERY good subwoofer...especially for the money. It is the clear "price vs. performance" winner in this battle. The performance difference between the 2 is a lot smaller than the price difference IMHO.

A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.

I hope that helps. Let me know if I can be of more help."

-Eli

[johnlarsen]

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

[bgillyjcu]

I think for 2200-2800 I'd rather have 2 PB12-Plus/2 for $2400.

That would HAVE to totally KILL the JL in terms of Bass for the $$$$$$$

[johnlarsen]

two of those would take up half the living room, har har. sound qualities would still be better from the one 113, so SQ for the $ would still go to FATHOM in that case

[jhan1000]

I think for 2200-2800 I'd rather have 2 PB12-Plus/2 for $2400.

That would HAVE to totally KILL the JL in terms of Bass for the $$$$$$$

I think it depends what characteristics are important to the user. Every subwoofer has its strengths and weakness, and that includes cost.

For you, size isn't a consideration, but for many like myself, size is an important consideration, especially if I want to stay married with my wife. :)

Flipping the argument around, would I could spend $700-800 more to have a single subwoofer, a smaller volume, and in a sealed design? For me, the answer is yes, but for others it won't be.

Different strokes for different folks. All these choices, in the end, are great for consumer.

[ssabripo]

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.
John....please dont start infesting this thread with your trolling.. :mad: Yes, We get it....we all get it...you hate XYZ company...no need to keep repeating yourself in every freaking thread!

smaller and "sealed" have jack to do with the qualifications of the sound quality of a sub. Some prefer sealed over ported, and viceversa....they are distinct. By the same token, there are plenty of ported subs that sound vastly better than sealed counterparts, and viceversa.

Eli gave his impressions of his experience with his subs in his room......if you dont like or agree with his statement, then buy the subs yourself, and start your own thread/review........there is absolutely nothing that "don't make no sense" about his statement :rolleyes:

[TheEAR]

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

Exactly

For its size the JL subs beat the stuffing out of the large SVS. To me price is a secondary concern,very secondary. ANd the JL subs are THE best performing compact subs made. Period

Velodyne's best compact subs do not match the JL SQ and output...and cost more!

[rockemsockem]

Is the driver that is used in the fathoms unique to their home audio products? Or is it used in car audio applications as well.

I know it doesn't matter, just curious.

[ransac]

bgilly, you are making the same mistake I have made. You are making quantitative comparisons because you can. Total SPL, amount of displacement, number of drivers, dollars per max db. These are easy to make comparisons. What people have been trying to pound into my head is that you, and only you, can make the qualitative comparisons. Does it sound better to you. If yes, is it worth spending the extra money to obtain it?

You have to realize, some people like boomy subs and would be very happy with an inexpensive sub. Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs. Some people, like me, are satisfied with a mid level sub even if they can discern a difference in the higher priced subs. Some people will spend the additional amount for the perceived improvement in sound reproduction, even if the improvement is slight and the added cost is great.

And don't fall for the vocabulary challenged posters that can only use terms like, 'X will blow away Y', or 'X will stomp all over Y'. They are just trying to goad you into an argument.

[ssabripo]

You have to realize, some people like boomy subs and would be very happy with an inexpensive sub. Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs. Some people, like me, are satisfied with a mid level sub even if they can discern a difference in the higher priced subs. Some people will spend the additional amount for the perceived improvement in sound reproduction, even if it the improvement is slight and the added cost is great.
excellent post Ransac....thank you! :)

glad to see there is some voice of logic behind the few in here with the pom poms in hand

[rockemsockem]

Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs.

I would definitely fall into this category. :-)

[bgillyjcu]

NO POM POMs in my hand. I'd love to hear this JL Sub.

HELL, I'd buy one if it sounds as good as you are saying!

[TJEli]

FWIW guys... size is not a concern for me and is not a factor in my decision making. As a matter of fact, the JL looks wimpy compared to what I am use to.

My comment about price was assuming that in a perfect situation, a higher MSRP gets you more R&D, higher end components, ect. so the higher cost "should" buy you more performance. (it was an analogy)

In an ouput contest, the dual +/2s will win... and sound really darn good doing it... providing a relative performance bargain.

In my room, the ouput of a single F113 during typical scenes seems to fall in between a single and dual +/2s.

My impressions have nothing to do with preference for sealed vs ported. I have heard well executed examples of both.


As was stated above, just MY impressions. YMMV.

-Eli

[MKtheater]

Like I said to TJEli , I hit 117 db's in my room with my SVS tuned to 20 hz, and 121 spl in the 25 hz tune. I only use my radio shack spl to measure from my chair. I am not looking for more spl. I was curious on what better bass means. I obviously don't need to subs. I might just wait to see what people say about the new ultra and submersive before I try the JL audio. I have heard M&K MX-5000THX subs(dual) several times and I think the SVS sounds as good. The M&K's are sealed designs. My SVS has alot more power though and can make you dizzy after a demo where the M&K can not. I know the jl audio and submersive are supposed to give you the sealed sound and impact. I can get the jl audio for a little more than say a submersive or ultra/2. would it be worth it?

[TJEli]

For its size the JL subs beat the stuffing out of the large SVS.

The JL is a very good subwoofer. However, in my opinion, it does not "beat the stuffing" out of a large SVS. (ala +/2, Ultra, Ultra/2, ect)

I have been trying VERY hard not to give performance misconceptions to people that have not had the priviledge of listening to high quality subwoofers from many manufacturers. If you take the statement above at face value, it sounds like the F113 blows big SVSs out of the water and that just isn't the case.

Is there a performance difference? Yes.

Is it a HUGE difference from other top performing subs? No.

-Eli

[ssabripo]

exactly Eli!

people reading some of the statements made in the Fathom threads will end up thinking it is the best thing since sliced bread :rolleyes:..... Seaton's offerings, many DIY offerings, and several others in the horizon will bring sharp competition to an already excellent product in the fathom......which means better products at the end for us consumers.

I just find it funny with some of the fanboy statements being thrown out there.....pretty comical actually.

[johnlarsen]

so clearly theEAR say that for the size it beat the stuffing out of blah blah. for the size, since it is 3 times smaller. fictional stmt that is not

is there something on horizon that will beat or even compete with f113 JL that is very close to its size? no

[MKtheater]

fortunately size is not a factor. I am completely satisfied with my sub. Hits me hard and fast. Shakes the whole house. My wife called me from upstairs last night to ask me to turn it down because she thought the rattling would wake up the babies. My house is 4000 square feet and I am in a dedicated theater in the basement(with sound treatments and alot of insulation with sound boards) and she was on the complete opposite side of the house upstairs. I read about better bass, more musical, etc... and it gets me curious. I would be fine if I stayed of the forums.

[kgb540]

When I tried the JL's I unboxed the F112 first. Once it was placed next to the DD-15 I played material (both music and movie) for a couple days before doing any comparisons. Now I dont have any measuring equipment, so all my tests were done by ear and "feel". Figuring I would be able to tell the biggesst difference with music, I started there. With the usual tracks from Blue Man, Donavon Frankenretier, Diana Krall and others my initial feel was these were almost indentical sounding subs. Both had been calibrated with their respective onboard technologies and sounded SUPERB! Where I began to tell a mild difference in their performances was whn the vloumes reached higher levels. That's where the JL asserted itself. Not that there is anything wrong with the performance of the big Velo, quite the contrary as it is world-class, but the F112 added more "punch" to the presentation. No matter what was called for, the JL always seemed to make the music more involving. It has a more tactile approach with big bass, you could literally feel the big hits. While they both were precise and extremely accurate, the extra dimension the F112 brought ultimately made the music more enjoyable. At normal levels I could live with either and be 100% satisifed, but when push came to shove, I craved the JL. Playing movies only blostered what I had found out with music. After I about a week of this, I implimented the F113. Now I will admit that I was initially biased towards the 112 over the 113 because of the outstanding performance I had just witnessed vs. the DD and as I compared the 2 JL giants, I grew even more fond of the 112. The difference between the JL's was very, very subtle. The 113 had the same punch and "feel" of the 112 but it had that little extra at the extremes. Like the difference between being hit by a Strong Safety (112) and Middle Linebacker (113), both will knock you on your butt!! I know this isnt a very technical review but I hope I have conveyed what I found is the biggest difference in th JL's and the VELO. Now as always, these are only my feeling but I think my findings were valid. Both companies make reference grade stuff, Velodyne is great, but JL is incredible.

[im the man]

The JL is a very good subwoofer. However, in my opinion, it does not "beat the stuffing" out of a large SVS. (ala +/2, Ultra, Ultra/2, ect)

I have been trying VERY hard not to give performance misconceptions to people that have not had the priviledge of listening to high quality subwoofers from many manufacturers. If you take the statement above at face value, it sounds like the F113 blows big SVSs out of the water and that just isn't the case.

Is there a performance difference? Yes.

Is it a HUGE difference from other top performing subs? No.

-Eli
Hey TJEl. I think everything boils down to what you like. Personally I owned both the SVS PB 12plus/2 12.3 and the F113 at the same time and to me I would side with THEear on this one. I think there was VERY noticable difference between the SVS and JL. Now is it worth the extra money...., well that all depends on what you can afford. To me it was and it is. A single F113 in my opinion was much more detailed and had more spl than the SVS. Again everything is subjective. There is no right or wrong answer here. I'll say this if you have the money I would definatley look into a F113 if you don't have the budget for the JL I would look at the SVS HSU and some others are also very good options. Heres a good comparison: I'll compare the SVS PB/2 to a Corvette and F113 to Ferria.

[TheEAR]

exactly Eli!

people reading some of the statements made in the Fathom threads will end up thinking it is the best thing since sliced bread :rolleyes:..... Seaton's offerings, many DIY offerings, and several others in the horizon will bring sharp competition to an already excellent product in the fathom......which means better products at the end for us consumers.

I just find it funny with some of the fanboy statements being thrown out there.....pretty comical actually.

Fanboy... :rolleyes:

Seriously I am very enthusiastic about these new JL subs. Beat the stuffing was on the strong side I admit.
And I am not reading any thread when I say the f113's are very probably the best sounding subs under 5K.I have heard and have so many other very competent subs.Some take "beat the stuffing" way too seriously.
What this boils down to for me and a few others...

JL has a product that goes toe to toe with SVS subs using two drivers in a much larger cabinet,ported cabinet.And JL is doing this in a almost compact and sealed cabinet! Plus better SQ! To me this is very impressive,and reason to purchase two f113's(music/HT system) and one f112(PC sub duty!).

Not knocking SVS,as SVS and HSU have raised the bar,high. I have little doubt SVS will have new surprises that will perform even better(output). :p

[new27]

"PC sub duty!"

Jesus, what the hell are you using your pc for? I like!

[TheEAR]

"PC sub duty!"

Jesus, what the hell are you using your pc for? I like!

Gaming PC... Core2Duo Extreme/2XeVGA8800GTX/4GB RAM/AsusStryker/XFiPlaPro...

Replacing a Sunfire D12 and D8. :o

[hamsey]

Ordered my f112 will be hear in a couple of days. Can't wait. Sold my B&W ASW675 the guy picked it up the next day. Without a sub for a week, it's been 1 day and it sucks. want to watch a movie this weekend but a no go without the sub.

Norm

[kgb540]

Congrats hamsey! you are in for a real treat!

[jjdche]

It's a 12" subwoofer in a sealed box. No matter how much electronic gadgetry you throw at it, it's output is limited by the physics of the situation.

It probably sounds great, but for $2K+ I want more output.

[TJEli]

It's a 12" subwoofer in a sealed box. No matter how much electronic gadgetry you throw at it, it's output is limited by the physics of the situation.

It probably sounds great, but for $2K+ I want more output.

Its a 12" driver with displacement capabilites that surpass many good 15" drivers.

-Eli

[kgb540]

Always someone with "the glass is half empty" attitude.

[huff]

Always someone with "the glass is half empty" attitude.

If you were intrigued with the smaller profile, big sound, great reviews and impressive WAF of this sub AND you have $2K US that you're willing to spend AND are seriously considering buying it, BUT you live in Canada where, sadly, a purchase price of $2K US seems a pipe dream, your glass might be half empty too! :)

[jjdche]

Its a 12" driver with displacement capabilities that surpass many good 15" drivers.

-Eli


According to the specifications on the JL Audio website, the piston area and linear excursion of the 12W7 are 542 square centimeters and 29 mm, respectively. That's 3.14 liters of displacement. A 15" woofer typically has a piston area of approximately 800 square centimeters and therefore would require less than 20mm of excursion to match the displacement of the 12W7. In today's subwoofer market there aren't many "good" 15" woofers with less than 20mm of excursion.


Always someone with "the glass is half empty" attitude.

I don't have a glass is half empty attitude, I was just stating my assessment of the subwoofer. For $2,000 *I* would want more output, that doesn't mean everyone would. If I was willing to spend $2,000 on a single subwoofer I would probably strongly consider it.

[MusicFirst]

It's a 12" subwoofer in a sealed box. No matter how much electronic gadgetry you throw at it, it's output is limited by the physics of the situation.

It probably sounds great, but for $2K+ I want more output.
Well, I got a f113 for not much more than $2k (street price) and for a 13.5" driver in a small "sealed" box it has almost twice the output of the DD-18 from 16Hz-25Hz per Craigsubs 2M GP measurements at about 10% THD (in fact at 25Hz it had about 7dB more output than the DD-18). Sure it's not the f112, but the driver in the f113 is not much bigger, and for the street price it has a Sh*t load of output (in fact more output across the board than the Plus/2 which has two 12" drivers, ported and Huge by comparison). :)

[b curry]

Originally Posted by jjdche
According to the specifications on the JL Audio website, the piston area and linear excursion of the 12W7 are 542 square centimeters and 29 mm, respectively. That's 3.14 liters of displacement. A 15" woofer typically has a piston area of approximately 800 square centimeters and therefore would require less than 20mm of excursion to match the displacement of the 12W7. In today's subwoofer market there aren't many "good" 15" woofers with less than 20mm of excursion.Maybe your looking at the car audio 12W7. The f112 has 4.7 liters of displacement.

I don't have a glass is half empty attitude, I was just stating my assessment of the subwoofer. For $2,000 *I* would want more output, that doesn't mean everyone would. If I was willing to spend $2,000 on a single subwoofer I would probably strongly consider it.
I would think you would listen to one before you pass judgment.

[jjdche]

Maybe your looking at the car audio 12W7. The f112 has 4.7 liters of displacement.

I didn't realize that. From what I read it seemed liked it was a slightly modified 12W7. I don't understand why they call it a 12W7 if they modified it that much.


I would think you would listen to one before you pass judgment.


I didn't say it wasn't a good subwoofer, I just wouldn't buy it.

[b curry]

Originally Posted by jjdche
...I don't understand why they call it a 12W7 if they modified it that much.
Agreed. I think it has caused confusion for the f113 as well.

[Richard Mayer]

Maybe your looking at the car audio 12W7. The f112 has 4.7 liters of displacement.


That is not the displacement calculated by using the linear Xmax, but the maximum excursion instead. The Xmax for the HT version of the 12W7 is still the same ~29 mm.

[b curry]

Linear being the key word. None the less JL has spec'd the f112 as 4.7 liters.

The drivers used in the Fathoms are not the same as the car versions of the W7. The motors are different and the coils are different.

The Effective Displacement spec on our website is based on multiplying the effective piston area times a conservative value for peak to peak excursion capability that is attainable in each product (3.6 inches in the case of the f113, 3.42 inches for the f112).

Peak to peak excursion x effective piston area = Effective displacement
3.6 x 107.35= 386 cu.in. (6.3 liters)
3.42 x 84 = 287 cu.in. (4.7 liters)

Effective displacement (based on attainable excursion) is a more accurate indicator of maximum SPL capability.... Linear displacement reflects the output capability with a very low level of distortion.

Linear, peak-to-peak excursion is 2.7 inches for the f113 and 2.4 inches for the f112... so in terms of linear displacement (constant number of VC turns in the gap), the spec is:
290 cu.in (4.75 liters) for the f113
201.6 cu.in (3.3 liters) for the f113

Finally, the Driver Displacement specs on our mobile site describe the physical displacement of the product inside an enclosure... in simple terms how much box volume the woofer's structure actually occupies in the enclosure. This spec is necessary for accurate box volume calculations when building a custom enclosure.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[thehun]

NM

[b curry]

I admire your passion.

[jjdche]

Linear being the key word. None the less JL has spec'd the f112 as 4.7 liters.


OK, that makes sense. So the driver is a slightly modified 12W7. I imagine they made changes in the coil and motor to bring the specs more in line with home audio requirements, as opposed to car audio. Though it does not look like they increased the Xmax significantly, if at all.

I also found it interesting that on their webpage for the 12W7 that they calculate the Xmax based on the "coil overhang method", which does not necessarily give you the linear peak to peak excursion. If you measured the Xmax of the 12W7 using the BL curve method (as many driver mfgs. do) you may get a different value.

[TheEAR]

The bottom line here is anyone who claims to be serious must audition this sub,as online opinions do not tell half the story. It is above all a superb quality product axed on finesse and has good output to match.

[hamsey]

Well, I have had my f112 for a couple of weeks now and it feels good (also sounds good). ARO is very easy to use. Have watched some HD-DVD & BR-DVD titles and have never heard of felt bass like this before. Puts my old B&W ASW 675 to shame. Cleaner and tighter. Still getting over the sticker shock. I was going to wait for the f110 because of it's size glad I didn't. Bigger is better, right? I felt the sub was the weak link in my HT setup (not anymore).

Now, if I can only get the new DVD players to work properly!

Norm

[jacksonian]

Folks have mentioned street prices on the JL subs, but I can't even find MSRPs on the JL website. Are you guys just negotiating with your local dealer for the best price?

[msmith_JL]

MSRP's for the f112 are $2600 in satin black and $2700 in gloss black. Your local dealer sets the actual selling price and may or may not be offering them at a discount from MSRP.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[jacksonian]

Thanks, Manville. I have one local shop that carries JL so I'm going over there tomorrow. Can you tell me what the MSRP is for the f113? I saw one on Videogon in gloss black and the guy said it was $3300 MSRP.

[msmith_JL]

That is correct, Jacksonian... MSRP of the f113 is $3300 in gloss black and $3200 in satin black.

[jacksonian]

I listened to both of them today at my local dealer, but they were in different rooms with different speakers running with them. My dealer is sticking firm to MSRP except for the floor models.

Do you guys think I would notice much difference between the f112 and f113 in a 2000 cubic foot room? And this may show my ignorance or gullibility, but the sales guy said that in a small room like that I might actually get more bass with the smaller sub because of the length of the waves?

[Djoel]

Same here in New york the dealer does not want to budge one bit on the MSRP...Hmm They know they have a hot commodity on their hands!

Djoel

[Richard Mayer]

Do you guys think I would notice much difference between the f112 and f113 in a 2000 cubic foot room?
You can tell the difference, but I think you'd be happy with either one. :)


And this may show my ignorance or gullibility, but the sales guy said that in a small room like that I might actually get more bass with the smaller sub because of the length of the waves?
That's not true. Wavelength depends of the frequency being produced, the size of the subwoofer doesn't have anything to do with it. More capable sub will always produce more output/bass.

[jacksonian]

Thanks, Richard!

[TJEli]

I listened to both of them today at my local dealer, but they were in different rooms with different speakers running with them. My dealer is sticking firm to MSRP except for the floor models.

Do you guys think I would notice much difference between the f112 and f113 in a 2000 cubic foot room? And this may show my ignorance or gullibility, but the sales guy said that in a small room like that I might actually get more bass with the smaller sub because of the length of the waves?

Ask him to let you take one of each home and decide for yourself. :)

-Eli

[jacksonian]

Ask him to let you take one of each home and decide for yourself. :)

-Eli
Well, I would have done that except for his prices. Seems like other folks have had much better success negotiating a better price. I guess I'll have to try calling the other dealers that are about an hour and a half away to see if they will do any better.

[hamsey]

Dealer that I bought my 112 from gave a little off the MSRP. Other dealers (Out of state) would not move at all on price. I bought mine from the only dealer in CT.

Norm

[TheEAR]

Dealers must visit the AVS subwoofer forum and read both threads! Now they see the the very positive reviews,happy owners and the word being passed...they take advantage.

[SE-Raider]

After exhaustive research, and several auditions I finally came to a decision on what subs to buy. I basically considered most every sub I could find at all price points, and also considered several DIY designs. (And to think my wife says I am analytical by nature :cool: ) My priorities are accuracy, sound quality, and headroom for lifelike dynamics. I need two subs, one for use in my HT room with Klipsch Reference speakers, which are very efficient. And one for use in my study/office with a pair of monitors (maybe ERA, B&W, ML, or Selah). I decided on a Rythmik Audio 12" servo for the study/office, where accuracy is priority and SPL level will not be quite as demanding.

For the HT room application I chose the F112, because we enjoy critical music listening, and movies as well. There were several factors that drove my decision in the end. One was the exceptional value that the Fathom's represent. By having evaluated several top DIY alternatives, I found that I could purchase an F112 for not much if any more than it would cost to buy a JL W7, a comparably powered Prosound amp, and a DSP, before even considering a cabinet. I knew that I couldn't approach the fit, finish, and integrity of the Fathom cabinet with any DIY effort, even after investigating having one built. So, though not inexpensive, the F112 and F113 represent an exceptionally solid value.

With several years experience with high end car audio, I was well aware of the quality of product that JL brings to the table since they are for many the standard bearer for excellent SQ and SPL in car audio. In fact, my research on the JL Fathom caused me to examine their mobile line a little closer, and I also decided to upgrade my car to a 12w6 as well. JL as a corporation has always been innovative, with a passion for excellence. They are well represented by Manville Smith, and his professional and forthright support here was another factor that was important in my decision. I know that I can get direct support from JL if needed because they are committed to a total ownership experience. (To their credit, SVS, HSU, and Rythmik are exceptional in this regard as well. The respect that each has for the others speaks well of their own integrity, and for their confidence in their own products.)

But what really made the most difference was being able to audition one at my local dealer in Nashville. They patiently worked with me to compare virually every sub in their store, and there were many (B&W, DefTech, Klipsch, etc.). The JL's were the most accurate, the most transparent, and had the most headroom and output of any I heard. They seamlessly integrated with any mains I heard them with, and didn't draw the image away from the mains. The ARO was also a significant plus, as all rooms have nodes that can benefit from correction. I think the F112 will work well in my room of about 2500 cubic feet.

I appreciate the input from many here in narrowing my choice, whether by my asking directly or by lurking on other threads. Especially helpful has been TheEAR whose insight and experience I found to be spot-on in the comparisons I have made.
After hearing the Fathoms, I can understand his unbridled enthusiasm.

Comparison of the Rythmik and the Jl in a few more days will be fun. Or at least my idea of fun. :)

[jakeman]

Do you guys think I would notice much difference between the f112 and f113 in a 2000 cubic foot room? And this may show my ignorance or gullibility, but the sales guy said that in a small room like that I might actually get more bass with the smaller sub because of the length of the waves?

The sales guy is spouting BS. I doubt you would see much difference in a room that size. I would go with the f112. Its a very powerful sub for the space.

[jacksonian]

The sales guy is spouting BS. I doubt you would see much difference in a room that size. I would go with the f112. Its a very powerful sub for the space.
Oops, just ordered the f113! You're probably right that I wouldn't have noticed a difference. But maybe at least psychologically I won't have the nagging sub envy.

[jacksonian]

But what really made the most difference was being able to audition one at my local dealer in Nashville. They patiently worked with me to compare virually every sub in their store, and there were many (B&W, DefTech, Klipsch, etc.). The JL's were the most accurate, the most transparent, and had the most headroom and output of any I heard.

I just ordered the f113 (likely overkill) for my 2000 cu.ft. room. Did you compare it to the f112? And can you comment on the comparison between the f112 and DefTech subs (I'm upgrading from a SuperCube 1).

[enigma001]

hi guys,

i too am a new owner of a F112. i have yet to properly set it up and i can't wait. anyways i was wondering...should i run MCACC before i run ARO? and if i should set line level at reference or variable?



thanks

[jacksonian]

Was wondering the same thing for mine, my guess was to run ARO 1st.

[SE-Raider]

I wouldn't say it is overkill, it will just be effortless.

I compared the F113 and the F112, but they were in different rooms. The sonic signature is essentially the same with really the only difference being the output. Its basically a question of how big your room is and/or how loud you like to listen.

My listening to the DefTech was limited, enough though to know I immediately preferred the JL in sound quality and transparency and I moved on. So i can't give a detailed comparison to your sub. I think TheEAR has experience with both, including the flagship DefTech sub; maybe he can chime in.

Most of my experience with subs is with high end car audio. Because of the small environment of a vehicle, and cabin gain of 3-6 db per octave with plenty of power, EQ and displacement available, it is remakably easy to get flat response in a vehicle. In fact some vehicles I have heard were loud enough to modulate your voice with their bass output, with no detectable distortion. It is very visceral. There are a few really deep but musical cuts on some favorite CD's I use to audition subs. I used these to audition home subs, knowing what they could sound like. The JL's were solid, transparent, and visceral and were the first subs I had heard in the home that were capable of generating the kind of visceral impact I have often heard in car audio.

[Djoel]

I myself don't believe in overkill when it comes to amps, subwoofer outputs,and other such things. You can never have enough overhead for one, and your sub wouldn't be working as hard in a small room. Just MHO.

Djoel

[scanido]

...They patiently worked with me to compare virually every sub in their store, and there were many (B&W, DefTech, Klipsch, etc.). The JL's were the most accurate, the most transparent, and had the most headroom and output of any I heard...

SE-Raider,

You mentioned you compared the Fathom to B&W subs. Which ones did you compare to and how can you describe the difference?

I am comparing the F112 to the B&W 825 or bigger 855 and wanted to see if you or anyone has any thoughts regarding these subs. The advantage of the B&W's is they would match hand in hand with my speakers.

Thanks,

[TheEAR]

SE-Raider,

Yes I have both JL's,and NO I do not have the Definitive sub yet. I admit to having bashed the Trinity based on older def tech subs I had auditioned in the years past. Just to make things clear.


It is always preferable to have a more capable subwoofer/speakers/amps so these components do not have to work as hard and always operate well within the safe limits.

The only time it becomes overkill is when you have towers of subs piled one next to the other...to another and so on. :o

Also JL subwoofers will be a fantastic match for ANY speakers cut at 80hz and lower.They are better than Dyanudio subs and I have many Dyne speakers,they are better than B&W subwoofers and will be an A1 upgrade from Dyne or B&W subs. IMO

[jr_spyder]

I've been reading all I can on various forums as I am looking for a new sub for my HT and have pretty much concluded to go with JL. Have to wonder if one F113 is enough, or if I'd be better off with two F112s.

My HT:
13.5x19.5x8 = 2,100 cu feet well treated acoustically
Klipsch speakers all around: CF-3 mains, soon an RC-64 center, RS-3 surrounds, currently KSW200 sub
Adcom amps
Meridian 561 preamp

Front of room has big PJ screen with the big CF-3 mains to the side and in the corners - so I can't put the sub in a front corner. Plenty of room under screen, and flexible elsewhere.

I really only use this room for HT, not music. Want good sound that I can also feel.

For this size room the F113 would certainly be enough, but for the extra money would I have a better result overall with two f112s? Or would that be overkill? Or mabe just one f112 to start with.

All opinions welcome.

Thanks

[TheEAR]

A room around 2000cu ft,is a room I would sayone f113 will more than do. Dual f112 if listening to music is very very high on your list.

Stereo subs are always better to have,for music...always.One by each main front L/R speaker.

[b curry]

Which ever you chose, I would recommend you start with one. I think you will be very surprised, especially in a room that size. You will feel as well as hear this sub in your room.

My pick would be one f113. I liked the sound signature better. I don't think you will hear that much difference between the two with your room size.

Two can sometimes be more difficult to place than one but YMMV. You can always add a second easier than asking the dealer to take back an open box.

Ask your dealer to let you bring one home to try.

[jr_spyder]

Thanks for the input.

My dealer and I had an interesting discussion about possibly using one sub up front connected the usual sub output of my preamp, and one in the rear tied into the surround channels. I run my surrounds in “large” mode so I should have enough signal to make the sub happy. Sounds plausible, but is it worth it? Has anyone done it?

Of course if I had two subs I could try any configuration. But not sure if I need to go this far with the system.

[msmith_JL]

I would recommend running both subs in master/slave configuration from the subwoofer output of your pre-pro/receiver and setting the main and surround speakers to small. The Fathom manual includes placement recommendations for multiple subs.

Two f112's is a wonderful subwoofer system... that's what I plan to implement in my home.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[scanido]

has anyone compared the Velodyne DD-15 to the Fathom 12?

THanks,
STeve

[jr_spyder]

Manville,

This might be a dumb question, but does it matter at all which location (front or rear) is the master and which is the slave? Probably not. Just thinking about cabling. I know I'd need and XLR cable between two subs. Would that cable need male or female connectors?

Thanks

[kgb540]

scanido....................look at post #34. I owned a DD-15 v2.2 when I got my JL's.

[mmiles]

If you ran 2 subs I'd place one on the "front plane" with the LCR's and the second on a side wall (never front and back wall - try to avoid corners so not to "load" the room) paying careful attention to side wall placement in regards to your seating (maybe on the side wall slightly behind seating).

A single F113 should still fill the bill. What about 2 F113's?

Does the JL accept custom "digital outputs" from some of the high end pre-pros out there to tweak and or match the base with the LCRs (sub 1) and surrounds (sub 2) for "effects" while watching movies. I don't know how that would effect 2 channel music and SACD however.

If you have to Y dual subs isn't the only gain some additional SPL?



Regards,
Mike

[scanido]

scanido....................look at post #34. I owned a DD-15 v2.2 when I got my JL's.

Thank you very much, that solidifies my decision!

[soldonandy]

Just upgraded from a DD12 to a Fathom 112, still trying to get this thing to sound as seamless as the DD so I am reserving judgement for now. Question for 112 owners, I am having trouble with the auto on kicking in unless I crank the volume up, I can adjust the DB's any higher than -10 or the sound doesn't blend. This alone is giving me a little remorse about the purchase, I like the concept of the impact but if the thing doesn't flip on without pushing it, it does me no good. Also, with the grill on, you can't see the light indicating that it on unlike the Velodyne which I always thought was helpful.

[msmith_JL]

Soldonandy...

You may want to reduce the Master Level on the f112 and raise it on your pre-pro in order to drive the auto turn-on circuit with more signal at any given level.

[AndyGood]

Soldonandy...

You may want to reduce the Master Level on the f112 and raise it on your pre-pro in order to drive the auto turn-on circuit with more signal at any given level.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Mr. Smith, a few questions, is there any advantage to bypassing the sub and controlling things through the processor or is it just a matter of preference for convenience? Right now, I turned the db's up on the processor and have the sub set on the variable mode, that way I can dial in the volume during music more easily.

Right now, things are starting to come together a little more, I think my DD12 sounded "good" because I had the thing down so far that it blended with music but didn't deliver the bigtime bass experience with movies. The way I have the fathom currently is that it is hanging in there with music and for movies, I am getting a nice controlled slam. I think I have a bit further to go as far as tweaking so I have a few more questions.....I want to set the cross over on the sub at "80", the dial has a "75" so should I assume "80" is one click over? Also, I am not sure what to do with the phase dial. Lastly, is a break-in period a reality or a myth in your opinion.

Thanks again and I really see alot of potential with this product, looking forward to getting it as good as I can in my arrangement.

[scanido]

Are there any reviews for this sub? It seems the F113 is getting all the spotlight, but what about the F112.

I want to see technical articles on this sub.

[paulnpcom]

msmith_JL ... my 112 just arrived today, haven't even got it running yet (my AVR is in the shop). But I was wondering ... do you know where I might acquire a suitable power cord (i.e. one as good as the one that shipped with my new toy) with a right-angle IEC-320 connector? Circumstances force me to locate my sub as close to the wall as possible.

thanks, paul

[kgb540]

The latest issue of The Perfect Vision has a review of the F112. not exactly a technical numbers type of review but they do seem mightily impressed!!

[jr_spyder]

Here's one from last Nov. Again, not too techie but impressive.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=61&article_id=1884&page_number=1&print_page=y

[msmith_JL]

msmith_JL ... my 112 just arrived today, haven't even got it running yet (my AVR is in the shop). But I was wondering ... do you know where I might acquire a suitable power cord (i.e. one as good as the one that shipped with my new toy) with a right-angle IEC-320 connector? Circumstances force me to locate my sub as close to the wall as possible.

thanks, paul

You can always cut a couple of holes in the drywall for clearance. :D

But seriously... keep in mind that your signal cables need to be right angle or "shorty" connector types as well... otherwise they will stand proud of the heat sink fins as well.

I'm not sure where to find one, but the power cord spec you need is a 3-Prong Male to Right Angle IEC Female with 14 AWG conductors (no longer than 6 ft.)

Best regards, and thank you for purchasing a JL Audio subwoofer.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[dubiousdavid]

Just got my f112 today. I decided to get the smaller version because I didn't think I would need the ouput of the f113 given my listening preferences. All I can say is that this sub is fantastic. Plays louder than I will ever need and sound quality is superb. Packaging is great and makes getting the sub out of the box really easy. Thanks JL for delivering in every area.

[jr_spyder]

Hey paulnpcom,

About that right angle IEC connecter - look here: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/power-cord.html

Seems like the have exactly the spec Manville recommends. I've bought products from these guys before and have been happy with the service and teh goods.

JR

[TheEAR]

Thanks for the link JR. Good to know a place to buy quality powercords that are not overpriced!

[paulnpcom]

Hey paulnpcom,

About that right angle IEC connecter - look here: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/power-cord.html

Seems like the have exactly the spec Manville recommends. I've bought products from these guys before and have been happy with the service and teh goods.

JR

thanks, JR!

it looks like I could use their existing product, though I have written them to see if their high-end cords can be made with right-angle plugs. the cord that came with my 112 is 12awg, so even though JL has said that 14awg suffices, I'm going to try to match the existing (which the afforementioned high-end product does).

paul

[msmith_JL]

That should be fine, Paul. We use the same cord on the f112 and f113, so we spec it fo the f113's extra current draw. But, a bigger gauge cord is never a bad idea so that should be fine.

One thing I did notice that may be a problem is that most right-angle IEC plugs are oriented so that the wire exits to the left (looking at the amp panel). This might get in the way of the right RCA input if it is being used. If you're doing a mono hookup it won't be a problem.

[paulnpcom]

thanks, JR!

it looks like I could use their existing product, though I have written them to see if their high-end cords can be made with right-angle plugs. the cord that came with my 112 is 12awg, so even though JL has said that 14awg suffices, I'm going to try to match the existing (which the afforementioned high-end product does).

paul

unfortunately, here is what they had to say:

At the present time we do not offer right angle connectors.


So I will probably go with their awg14 product.

paul

[msmith_JL]

How about this "Horizontal Right-Angle 15 amp IEC Adapter"
http://www.voodoocable.net/VAPA.htm

Or

IEC 90 deg/2 Right-angle A/C Adapter
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=27808&sct=

[TheEAR]

How about this "Horizontal Right-Angle 15 amp IEC Adapter"
http://www.voodoocable.net/VAPA.htm

Or

IEC 90 deg/2 Right-angle A/C Adapter
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=27808&sct=


Holy smokes,VoodooCable has some amazing looking Tesla series power cords. Me want. :eek: Starting at "only" $900!

[craig john]

Soldonandy...

You may want to reduce the Master Level on the f112 and raise it on your pre-pro in order to drive the auto turn-on circuit with more signal at any given level.
Mr. Smith,

In order to "reduce the Master Level on the f112" you must essentially bypass the ARO, (switching to the Variable level defeats the "Reference Level" and thereby defeats the ARO.) Is it necessary to "defeat" or "bypass" the ARO in order to use the auto-on circuit?

Craig

[msmith_JL]

Craig... the Level Mode has no effect on the ARO. Once its calibrated, the only ways to defeat ARO are to put the sub in "Slave" Mode with the switch on the back or to hit the "ARO Defeat" button so that it's indicator light is lit.

[craig john]

Craig... the Level Mode has no effect on the ARO. Once its calibrated, the only ways to defeat ARO are to put the sub in "Slave" Mode with the switch on the back or to hit the "ARO Defeat" button so that it's indicator light is lit.
Thanks for that clarification. I'll try again tonight. Last night, after I set the ARO, I thought it went into "defeat" mode when I turned the Level Mode to Variable. Maybe I did something else by mistake.

Craig

[msmith_JL]

Holy smokes,VoodooCable has some amazing looking Tesla series power cords. Me want. :eek: Starting at "only" $900!

And then you plug it into the wall outlet into who knows what kind of monofilament Romex that is twenty times longer to the circuit breaker than the power cord? Think about it before you spend your $900! :p

[fretman4god]

DOES ANYONE WANNA BUY ME ONE OF THESE? I'll be your friend. :)
I can't wait till I can afford the f113.

[craig john]

I've had my F112 for a little over a week now. It was a 2-week old floor model, so it was well broken in when I bought it, (if you believe in sub "break-in"). Having listened to quite a few of the bass spectaculars, (LOTR-ROTK, WOTW, FOP, Nemo, KK, Incredibles, M&C, etc.), as well as some bass-heavy music, (Fourplay, BTS, Pink Floyd, DSotM, Steely Dan, Aja, etc.) I can state with certainty:

The F112 is *unequivocally* better than my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15.

Deeper extension.. better, smoother FR... more impact... more tactile response... and tighter, more controlled musical response.

It sounds better for movies *and* for music. Even in my very challenging room, (3,800 cubic ft., open to a stairwell and a hallway), I am very impressed with this sub's ability to be loud, low, linear and clean, especially for a sub of *this* size... or of *any* size!

It's not cheap, and many might question it's value. However, while I'm not craigsub, theEAR, jakeman or some of the other, more experienced forum members, I have heard several other, elaborate, expensive sub systems: (dual, stacked SVS cylinders; dual, co-located Hsu 1220's; dual Klipsch THX Ultra-2's; MacIntosh line array's with dual columns of six, 12" woofers; Martin Logan Descent with three 10" drivers, Velo DD series). No other system I've heard has the tonal purity of the single, 12" driver, sealed JL F112. Some of these other systems have more output, more impact, more sheer volume than the single F112, but they don't *sound* better, at least not to my ears at relatively reasonable listening levels, (and I like to listen at levels where my *kids* are asking me to turn it down).

The F113 is said to only exceed the F112 in sheer volume output by a few dB, and by maybe 1 or 2 Hz of extension. If this is the case, the F112 seems to be the cost-effective "sweet spot" for high-fidelity subs, IMO.

Craig

[AndyGood]

I've had my F112 for a little over a week now. It was a 2-week old floor model, so it was well broken in when I bought it, (if you believe in sub "break-in"). Having listened to quite a few of the bass spectaculars, (LOTR-ROTK, WOTW, FOP, Nemo, KK, Incredibles, M&C, etc.), as well as some bass-heavy music, (Fourplay, BTS, Pink Floyd, DSotM, Steely Dan, Aja, etc.) I can state with certainty:

The F112 is *unequivocally* better than my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15.

Deeper extension.. better, smoother FR... more impact... more tactile response... and tighter, more controlled musical response.

It sounds better for movies *and* for music. Even in my very challenging room, (3,800 cubic ft., open to a stairwell and a hallway), I am very impressed with this sub's ability to be loud, low, linear and clean, especially for a sub of *this* size... or of *any* size!

It's not cheap, and many might question it's value. However, while I'm not craigsub, theEAR, jakeman or some of the other, more experienced forum members, I have heard several other, elaborate, expensive sub systems: (dual, stacked SVS cylinders; dual, co-located Hsu 1220's; dual Klipsch THX Ultra-2's; MacIntosh line array's with dual columns of six, 12" woofers; Martin Logan Descent with three 10" drivers, Velo DD series). No other system I've heard has the tonal purity of the single, 12" driver, sealed JL F112. Some of these other systems have more output, more impact, more sheer volume than the single F112, but they don't *sound* better, at least not to my ears at relatively reasonable listening levels, (and I like to listen at levels where my *kids* are asking me to turn it down).

The F113 is said to only exceed the F112 in sheer volume output by a few dB, and by maybe 1 or 2 Hz of extension. If this is the case, the F112 seems to be the cost-effective "sweet spot" for high-fidelity subs, IMO.

Craig

I think I agree......it is probably the most sub you can get in the smallest package.

[ChrisMcCarthy]

I've had my F112 for a little over a week now. It was a 2-week old floor model, so it was well broken in when I bought it, (if you believe in sub "break-in"). Having listened to quite a few of the bass spectaculars, (LOTR-ROTK, WOTW, FOP, Nemo, KK, Incredibles, M&C, etc.), as well as some bass-heavy music, (Fourplay, BTS, Pink Floyd, DSotM, Steely Dan, Aja, etc.) I can state with certainty:

The F112 is *unequivocally* better than my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15.

Deeper extension.. better, smoother FR... more impact... more tactile response... and tighter, more controlled musical response.

It sounds better for movies *and* for music. Even in my very challenging room, (3,800 cubic ft., open to a stairwell and a hallway), I am very impressed with this sub's ability to be loud, low, linear and clean, especially for a sub of *this* size... or of *any* size!

It's not cheap, and many might question it's value. However, while I'm not craigsub, theEAR, jakeman or some of the other, more experienced forum members, I have heard several other, elaborate, expensive sub systems: (dual, stacked SVS cylinders; dual, co-located Hsu 1220's; dual Klipsch THX Ultra-2's; MacIntosh line array's with dual columns of six, 12" woofers; Martin Logan Descent with three 10" drivers, Velo DD series). No other system I've heard has the tonal purity of the single, 12" driver, sealed JL F112. Some of these other systems have more output, more impact, more sheer volume than the single F112, but they don't *sound* better, at least not to my ears at relatively reasonable listening levels, (and I like to listen at levels where my *kids* are asking me to turn it down).

The F113 is said to only exceed the F112 in sheer volume output by a few dB, and by maybe 1 or 2 Hz of extension. If this is the case, the F112 seems to be the cost-effective "sweet spot" for high-fidelity subs, IMO.

Craig

This pretty well locks my opinion that twin F112s would be better than one F113.
Cool.

Chris.

ps (please don't say get twin F113s. Can't afford it, don't need it, tired of hearing it.)

[msmith_JL]

Chris, have you considered twin f113's? :D

Seriously, though... I agree that twin f112's are a dynamite setup. That's what I'm doing in my home.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[jacksonian]

Seriously, though... I agree that twin f112's are a dynamite setup. That's what I'm doing in my home.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
Hmmm, probably what I should have done. But now that I have my f113, I'll either have to suck it up with just one :D or wait a while and see if I can sneak in a second without my wife noticing.

[AndyGood]

I have the db's set to +5 and still not getting a consistant "auto on" without spiking the volume up a bit. I have decided to leave the subwoofer on all the time, looking for some advice if this is not a good idea. I also went to a balanced cable as my pre-amp has a balanced sub output

[TheEAR]

I have the db's set to +5 and still not getting a consistant "auto on" without spiking the volume up a bit. I have decided to leave the subwoofer on all the time, looking for some advice if this is not a good idea. I also went to a balanced cable as my pre-amp has a balanced sub output

I would be interested to hear from Manville Smith about leaving the subs always ON. What is his take on this,life span wise.

[jr_spyder]

Hello All,

Time for me to chime in as a new owner of two f112s. I’ve had them about 2 weeks now and they pretty much have changed the movie watching experience in my HT. I thought long and hard about one f113 at first because of all the rave reviews, but settled on the 2 f112s as more likely to give me more flexibility and a better experience. I couldn’t be more pleased. The bass is now completely enveloping in the room. There is absolutely no directional nature to it at all – it’s simple smooth and solid everywhere it seems. And so far I’ve just put them in convenient places (center rear wall, center left wall), and haven’t started tweaking. Hard to imagine it will get better, but I look forward to trying.

Thanks for all the info on this forum and the f113 thread. All good stuff – except some of you are clearly sub deranged. I fear that I’ll be joining your ranks soon as my relationship grows with these beauties!

JR

[msmith_JL]

Glad to hear you're happy, Jr.

Welcome to the loony bin! :D

[TheEAR]

Good to see more happy owners.

Today I demoed my f112 to a friend at home,running with Dynes S3.4 as mains,the Dynes cut at a high 80Hz! Well lets say impressed only begins to describe the end result.

Cut this high most subs ruin the experience,the f112 only filled in and extended down deep like a a high quality sub should.

Never intrusive,always there when called upon,detailed and controlled. True reference class.

Next I added the dual f113's to the mix. Simply MORE of the JL Audio goodness.

I think I have converted some poeple who did not know JL into pro future JL Audio buyers. ;)

[Zinje]

Hi all.... I currently have the svs 2039PC+. Ever since I got it, my wife has always told me how unsightly it is. The size of the F112 is very appealing and might actually give me a reason to upgrade. Well that is my question.... how much of a upgrade will the f112 be compared to my current 2039pc+. Will it be an upgrade at all? What should I expect?

[jhan1000]

It will be an upgrade from an SPL standpoint, but keep in mind you are paying a premium for the smaller, sealed enclosure. And the enclosure is certainly well built and has a high WAF.

From a SQ standpoint, there are many who feel that the Fathom will be superior. However, one member did not seem to notice that much of a difference between his SVS and Fathom. However, you are better off listening and deciding for yourself.

[Zinje]

When you say SPL standpoint i am assuming that it will give me more output? What about the lower regions? How does it compare to the 2039pc+

[TheEAR]

Hi all.... I currently have the svs 2039PC+. Ever since I got it, my wife has always told me how unsightly it is. The size of the F112 is very appealing and might actually give me a reason to upgrade. Well that is my question.... how much of a upgrade will the f112 be compared to my current 2039pc+. Will it be an upgrade at all? What should I expect?

And upgrade at all!?

Of course it will be an upgrade. From the sound quality,built and design it is on a whole new level. If you had a SVS Ultra it would be closer in performance but the f112 is worth the extra expense.

No matter how you push a Jl it will never suffer from any port chuffing,port noise of any kind.The control in the bass is greater.The cabinet as inert as they come and the ARO will even out the response.

This not taking into account the looks and feel of the sub.It is a total package.

Go listen,I would compare A/B on HT and music. It not only moves a good deal of air,it does so with total control.In my vie the Fathom subs are the finest compact subs made.They do not suffer from lack of displacement when compared to often much larger designs.

[Zinje]

I am going to use it for 95% movies. What is the F112 native tuned hz at? I will see if there is a dealer in my area that will do an in home demo.

[craig john]

I am going to use it for 95% movies. What is the F112 native tuned hz at? I will see if there is a dealer in my area that will do an in home demo.
It's a sealed box, so it doesn't have ports or PR's that are tuned to a specific frequency. It's -3dB point is 21 Hz, but because it's a sealed box, the rolloff is more gradual than a ported or PR design.

Craig

[Zinje]

Since I will be using the sub for movies so will it still reach pretty low with good output? I will be coming from a 2039pc+ currently running at it's native 20hz.

[TheEAR]

Since I will be using the sub for movies so will it still reach pretty low with good output? I will be coming from a 2039pc+ currently running at it's native 20hz.

YES

The Fathoms are known for very impressive output down deep,and superb SQ.This is THE reason why I went with a second and third one.I was enchanted by the level of efortless deep bass comming out of these small boxes.

The drivers used in the Fathom subs are some of the highest displacement in commercial subs.Size to size they have little competition.

[CETA]

Anybody here from the Bay Area? Dang I really want to go hear this sub.

I went to the website and called a Dealer in Monterey and their phone just rang that went to voicemail (maybe a custom install only-no auditions available) and I called a shop in San Jose and they stated it was incredible but didn't have it available to audition but would gladly order it for me.

I just purchased new Dynaudio Speakers and I am looking for a great quality sub to match for music/movies. I wan't a smaller sub and this seems to fit the bill.

I love the shop that I purchased my speakers from but they are a REL shop. The REL's sounded very good to me but I want to explore my options. I think I would appreciate the JL during set-up.

My new speakers should be here next week and I would love to get my sub settled. If I can't find a real audition I am thinking of ordering blind.

If anyone here is from the Bay Area, kindly let me know where you purchased if possible. If not I will need to make the decision on a blind buy but I don't think this would be as drastic as a blind main speaker buy.

Thanks..
-Rick

[Zinje]

Ya... anyone around Cerritos, CA care to demo their f112? I would bring my svs to hear a comparison.

[Dick Sartor]

YES

The Fathoms are known for very impressive output down deep,and superb SQ.This is THE reason why I went with a second and third one.I was enchanted by the level of efortless deep bass comming out of these small boxes.

The drivers used in the Fathom subs are some of the highest displacement in commercial subs.Size to size they have little competition.

I am new here an trying to learn. If its so good why you need three?

[b curry]

Originally Posted by Dick Sartor
I am new here an trying to learn. If its so good why you need three?
Well Dick the simple answer is you don't. But some people have difficulty separating their wants from their needs.

[TheEAR]

Well Dick the simple answer is you don't. But some people have difficulty separating their wants from their needs.

Some may have even greater difficulty grasping the simple ...WHY THE HECK NOT.

[TheEAR]

I am new here an trying to learn. If its so good why you need three?

Why?

Because I have two f113 's in a larger room and a f112 in a smaller room. And because I like to have extra headroom.

I almost never listen at over 90dB (listening position),so yes you would be correct to say the second sub would not be needed.

Why not? Some people buy cars capable of over 200MPH,will they use them...most owners not even close.Buy why not? If people purchased just what they need,the world would be a boring place to live in(and probably alot healthier too).

[b curry]

Originally Posted by TheEAR
Some may have even greater difficulty grasping the simple ...WHY THE HECK NOT.
Relax Ear... Nothing wrong with having more or "WHY THE HECK NOT".:)

Just pointing out that you don't "need" 3 or in your case 30. That falls more in the "want" side of the equation.

[craig john]

I am new here an trying to learn. If its so good why you need three?

Besides the silly responses you received above, there are two primary reasons to have more than one sub:

1. Greater total output. If you co-locate the subs, you'll get ~6 dB of greater output, (on average) with two subs over 1. If they're not co-located, (i.e., seperated by some distance), you get ~ 3 dB of gain.

2. Smoother frequency response over more seating locations. With 2 sources of bass, you're less likely to have peaks and nulls at any seating location. Also, the peaks and nulls will generally be less steep. (Obviously, this is very much setup dependant).

Craig

[Raf]

I have a question for those with JL Audio Fathoms. I was reading the manual ( interested in getting a pair ) and wanted to know how the connections are done if you have two F112 each with XLR connections back to the Processor and want to use the master/slave combination.

The manual states that you plug the output slave to the input balance mono.

The question I have is that I want to run two xlr runs from the processor for L/R to the pair of F112's for regular 2 channel stereo. If I am using the XLR's for that purpose, how would you end up connecting things for the master/slaver operation of the units.

The manual keeps referencing back to the same page (from diagram 4 to diagram 2 ) but doesn't go over that detail.

Thanks!
Raf

[msmith_JL]

Raf,

If you connect the two subwoofers in stereo, they cannot be in master/slave. You would need to calibrate each one individually.

[Raf]

Raf,

If you connect the two subwoofers in stereo, they cannot be in master/slave. You would need to calibrate each one individually.


How does that affect the calibration of both units? Any particular things I should be concerned about in this type of setup? I would have thought that with 2 units, running two separate runs of cables would have been a better configuration. :)

Thanks!
Raf

[msmith_JL]

I'm not sure I understand the question, Raf. Do you want stereo sub-bass? Or is mono sub-bass acceptable?

[Raf]

I'm not sure I understand the question, Raf. Do you want stereo sub-bass? Or is mono sub-bass acceptable?

I do want stereo bass. Let me re-phrase; since I would have to do the calibration of each one independent, what would I loose in regards to the accuracy of the calibration? It would seem from what I read that the best method of calibration is done via master/slave method.

Is this simply from simplicity? Or is there an additional level of accuracy that is enabled in M/S mode.

Thanks!
Raf

[msmith_JL]

Okay, RAF...

The master/slave configuration assumes a mono subwoofer configuration and seeks to calibrate all of the subwoofers together as a single system (using the master sub's processing and passing that signal to the slave subs). When applying multiple subs in mono as is typical in an HT system this is the best method for applying ARO and getting optimal response. The output from the master is identical to the signal feeding the master's amp, which is a mono signal.

If you want stereo bass, place one sub on the left and one on the right as close to your mains as possible and calibrate ARO for each sub independently.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[GoodSonics]

Does anyone use the ol F112 anymore, or has everyone decide to just go for the bigger brother?

[jr_spyder]

Are you kidding? Are you asking maybe because there isn't much action on this thread? I have twin f112's and can't imagine having/needing f113s. They are perfect for my HT and just amazing every time I crank them up.

JR

[msmith_JL]

I have two f112's as well... no regrets, no envy. :)

[Viclondon]

Mr Smith,
I live in the UK and I am very interested in the F112 and the F110.
I understand that your subs are only 110v, is that correct?
Do you have any customers in the 220/240v area? Is it possible to use them with a voltage converter and in this case would there be a decrease in performance? Do you have any plans for distribution outside America?

Feedback from any overseas users would be very much appreciated.

[jclem]

I have a 14'x17' dedicated HT(90% movies) with an old 8" Velodyne sub. Time to upgrade!! It's the weak point of my system. I've got an AVM 50 on the way, Anthem A5 and Bryston 5b amps and Thiel MCS 1 lcr's. I've been drooling over the descriptions of the F112(and F113), and I've read that 2 subs are best because you get balanced and non-directional bass, etc, etc, but there is NO Way I can afford 2 F112s. So, I thought of a couple different solutions and would love some feedback.
1) just get one F112, it'll be more than fine and you'll just love it.
2) yes, 2 subs are (almost) a must, so get one F112 and one less expensive sub like an HSU. (I know that main and surround speakers should be from same maker, is that the case with subs, too, so this option is NFG?)
3) Rob a bank and get enough $$ to buy 4 F113s and sound-blast the cops when they come to arrest you.
4) Other ideas?

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

[xcjago]

I like option 3! HAha,

Seriously though, the F112 will be a huge leap in performance over your old sub. Your room is not too big, so a single F112 should be more than enough. I wouldn't bother mixing the F112 with another sub.

Another option would be the new Ultra from SVS. It is around $1500 and should very good performance. But it will be a much larger sub than the F112.

[craig john]

I have a 14'x17' dedicated HT(90% movies) with an old 8" Velodyne sub. Time to upgrade!! It's the weak point of my system. I've got an AVM 50 on the way, Anthem A5 and Bryston 5b amps and Thiel MCS 1 lcr's. I've been drooling over the descriptions of the F112(and F113), and I've read that 2 subs are best because you get balanced and non-directional bass, etc, etc, but there is NO Way I can afford 2 F112s. So, I thought of a couple different solutions and would love some feedback.
1) just get one F112, it'll be more than fine and you'll just love it.
2) yes, 2 subs are (almost) a must, so get one F112 and one less expensive sub like an HSU. (I know that main and surround speakers should be from same maker, is that the case with subs, too, so this option is NFG?)
3) Rob a bank and get enough $$ to buy 4 F113s and sound-blast the cops when they come to arrest you.
4) Other ideas?

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks
Start with #1. Think long and hard about #2. Avoid #3 as you won't be able to enjoy your sub(s) from jail. :)

Seriously, I have an F112 in room larger than yours with openings to other spaces. It's just fine, and like *loud* bass.

Craig

[otk]

No matter how you push a Jl it will never suffer from any port chuffing,port noise of any kind.

are the fathoms ported?

[xcjago]

are the fathoms ported?

No, that's why they'll never have port noise.

[otk]

No, that's why they'll never have port noise.

lol, ok, that makes sense :D

[GoodSonics]

I have a 20-39pci sub, and I got to do a home demo of the F112. I have a SMS-1 EQ, and I set the F112 up like I have my 20-39pci sub. It was a pretty good apples to apples comparison.

The F112 is spec'd to go 1 hz lower and I would say that in listening, that is about right. The F112 went just a tad lower.

But, the F112 really tightens up the bass and it has more authority. It wasn't because it was louder either, as I had used the SMS-1 to account for room response and ensured the levels were the same.

The impact of the F112 was significant becasue it goes down to 19hz, and does it cleanly with good punch.

I now have a F112 on order. ;)

Regards,
Darrell

Since I will be using the sub for movies so will it still reach pretty low with good output? I will be coming from a 2039pc+ currently running at it's native 20hz.

[Rieper]

Can someone PLEASE recommend a Fathom f112 dealer in the New York City area? I checked JL Audio's website, and found 2 local dealers IN NEW JERSEY! How can JL Audio not have an audio dealer in NY?

Anyone?

[jclem]

Can someone PLEASE recommend a Fathom f112 dealer in the New York City area? I checked JL Audio's website, and found 2 local dealers IN NEW JERSEY! How can JL Audio not have an audio dealer in NY?

Anyone?
I don't know if this is any closer than NJ for you, but when I plugged in my zip(01701) a dealer in Southampton, NY came up. It's Crescendo Designs at 14 Main St zip 11968 phone:631-283-2133. Maybe just try plugging in different zips??

[otk]

have you checked 6th ave electronics?

i remember seeing JL in the car dept a few years ago

[Rieper]

Thanks all. I'll see if 6th ave elec. carries the Fathom. If not I'll contact jl audio direct by phone.

[Mixdoctor]

Thanks all. I'll see if 6th ave elec. carries the Fathom. If not I'll contact jl audio direct by phone.


6ave definitely does not carry the Fathom. I was there the other day. You might have to take a trip to NJ or I think there is a dealer in White Plains.

[GoodSonics]

Well, I got my F112 last night and set it up using the ARO. Even though I didn't EQ with my SMS-1, I could use it to measure the response before and after using the ARO.

I have a large room mode at 25-40hz. I used the 25hz cut, to cut that area -12db. This still left a hump in the 35-60 range, so I ran ARO. At that point things were reasonably flat from 23-90hz. 19-23hz was a bit low (-4 to -6db) though as I had to use the 25hz cut to such an extreme.

Overall it sounds very good. The bass is strong but not boomy. The bass response is quick and detailed. The F112 is pretty easy to blend in with the front speakers with the SMS. Music even sounds natural.

But, I do have the SMS sitting there, so I think I will switch the sub to Slave mode and see how flat I can get things with the SMS. Maybe I can get the 4-6db back I am missing at 19-23hz.

I know it is a bit of a trade off. Right now all the adjustments are done in the Analog doman and the 4-6DB I am missing at 19-23hz isn't a big deal. The SMS may give me a flatter line, but it will be at the expense of doing a A-D-A conversion. Any thought on which is better?

Thanks,
Darrell

[msmith_JL]

Well, it would be pretty simple to A/B compare the two.... after you set the SMS up and listen for a while, just flip the f112 back to Master mode and bypass the SMS... see which performs better.

You may also want to adjust the e.l.f. trim up or down a few dB by ear to see if it sounds better.

[GoodSonics]

Manville,

That's my plan. It will be easy to A/B once I have it setup.

When I setup the SMS, should I Defeat the ARO, and set the e.l.f back to zero? Or is it ok to have the SMS, ARO, and e.l.f all working. Sonically is ther a disadvantage?

Thanks,
Darrell

[msmith_JL]

When you put the f112 in slave mode, all of those features are bypassed. Even the level control is bypassed.

[GoodSonics]

Wow, great design. That's very handy...

[AlexRac]

Hello All.
It's been months! The f113 thread must be stealing the show! :D

This thread and others like it are very informative and I wish to express my thanks to all who have contributed (now that's a BIG list). I have an appointment next week to listen to the f112 (and f113). The opinions have been positive and I look forward to the experience. I am interested to get comments from anyone that owns this sub, and has it placed in a room that is "challanged" somewhat with varying ceiling heights (12 feet in the Family Room, 9 feet in the Kitchen). There are many windows (with fabric shades) as well. The overall dimensions are 14x25. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Enjoy the Holidays!

[craig john]

Let's revive this as the "Official JL Audio F112 Thread"

Craig

[xcjago]

Here's mine:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8886/jlsmallhs1.jpg

My previous sub had deeper extension and played louder at 20hz. And yet, I like this one better. How could it be? I must be crazy! :p

[jakeman]

If you're crazy, we all are. Its because the overall sound quality of the JL subs is so much better than just about every commercial sub available today. That's far more important to performance and enjoyment than output at 20hz or whether there is extension below what's audible. :D

[Warpdrv]

Yea !!!! I didn't even know there was a F112 thread, but I happy it has surfaced again, I should be getting mine in a couple days.. :)

+ it gives me a whole new thread to run through once again... :)

[craig john]

If you're crazy, we all are. Its because the overall sound quality of the JL subs is so much better than just about every commercial sub available today. That's far more important to performance and enjoyment than output at 20hz or whether there is extension below what's audible. :D
Where ya been? I haven't seen you around here much lately. Good to see you back. :)

Craig

[jakeman]

Hi Craig thanks for the kind words. I've been lurking now and then but very busy travelling and taking care of business. Just making more time now to enjoy my dual Fl113s and dual Velo 18s. Love those subs. :)

[lakaw]

I got my f112 right at the end of 2007. This has been the best Home Theater purchase I've made. I also just recently upgraded my speakers. I bought the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's for L-C-R and HTM-200 SE's for surrounds. I'm loving the Ascend as well, and the f112 integrates with them beautifully. The thing about the f112 is how you can feel the bass, even the low listening levels.

This year, the next upgrades for my home theater are:
AVR (most likely Denon 3808ci)
Rear surrounds (In-ceiling)
Dual format or just BD drive for my HTPC (I've been reading a lot about the LG dual format)
Video card upgrade for my HTPC (ATI 3850? nVidia 8600?)

Any one have opinions on the Denon? I'm about half way through the 230+ page thread for the 3808ci. My buddy just got the Yamaha 3800, but I haven't been able to check it out yet.

I have my basement wired for 7.1 but since my older Denon (avr-3600) was 5.1 I never installed speakers. Does anyone have any experiences with in-ceiling rear surrounds.

Next year I may upgrade my plasma to a 60" 1080p (I've got a 50" 5th gen Panny now).

[jakeman]

I got my f112 right at the end of 2007. This has been the best Home Theater purchase I've made. I also just recently upgraded my speakers. I bought the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's for L-C-R and HTM-200 SE's for surrounds. I'm loving the Ascend as well, and the f112 integrates with them beautifully. The thing about the f112 is how you can feel the bass, even the low listening levels.



For speaker integration and seamlessly reproducing music the Fathoms are phenomenal. I've never heard a ported sub that can achieve that degree of harmony and very few sealed subs come close. That's why I've always suggested that if music is your priority the Fathoms are without equal right now.

[TheEAR]

Video card upgrade for my HTPC (ATI 3850? nVidia 8600?)


A bit OT...

ATI 3850 any day for an HTPC, I have the ATI Radeon HD3870 X2 in my HTPC and I would not trade it for HTPC duty with the two eVGA 8800Ultra SC that reside in my gaming rig.

High def support is better to my liking with the ATI than nVidia cards. ;)



Oh yes the Fat Ohm f112,I have one too. Be getting the second one to for a quad JL setup ...before summer.

[Warpdrv]

Well after getting the chance to spend some time with my new F112... You can label me thoroughly impressed, make that floored with the performance of the compact little powerhouse... This thing just pounds with incredible accuracy... Impactful, with so little decay.... I had always doubted how much a difference the upgrade to a truly heavy weight sealed sub like the Fathom would really make, but color me a true believer.

I think my 2nd system is truly complete....
Running along side my Paradigm Sig S4's, C3, ADP's, powered by D-Sonic 1000ASP's... Its just turned into a downright wicked, scary system..... :)

I might just have to rethink my thoughts of my Dual DIY 15" TC-2000's from a ported to a sealed configuration... Hmmmm

Anyways... Thank you JL Audio, and my wallet for releasing the funds for a truly gratifying and impressive experience, that my new F112 has provided to my addiction in this endeavor.... ;)

[xcjago]

Hey that's great Warpdrv. I bet the F112 sounds fantastic with those Paradigm Sigs. I don't suppose you have any pictures of the setup? :)

[Warpdrv]

Not just yet.... I am getting a new dresser next week, and will provide a picture after I get my front row finished up... System is setup in my bedroom, and all the equipment is downstairs in the basement... Its a very clean layout, but I'll be happy when its done.

[craig john]

Not just yet.... I am getting a new dresser next week, and will provide a picture after I get my front row finished up... System is setup in my bedroom, and all the equipment is downstairs in the basement... Its a very clean layout, but I'll be happy when its done.

:eek: You have your HT in your bedroom??? That's *NOT* the kind of "thumping" you're supposed to be doing in there! :D:D:D

Craig

[Warpdrv]

:eek: You have your HT in your bedroom??? That's *NOT* the kind of "thumping" you're supposed to be doing in there! :D:D:D

Craig


HEheheheh this is my secondary system....

And lets just clarify, this just adds to the thumpin goin on in the bedroom...

[baltik]

I got my f112 right at the end of 2007. This has been the best Home Theater purchase I've made. I also just recently upgraded my speakers. I bought the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's for L-C-R and HTM-200 SE's for surrounds. I'm loving the Ascend as well, and the f112 integrates with them beautifully. The thing about the f112 is how you can feel the bass, even the low listening levels.

This year, the next upgrades for my home theater are:
AVR (most likely Denon 3808ci)
Rear surrounds (In-ceiling)
Dual format or just BD drive for my HTPC (I've been reading a lot about the LG dual format)
Video card upgrade for my HTPC (ATI 3850? nVidia 8600?)

Any one have opinions on the Denon? I'm about half way through the 230+ page thread for the 3808ci. My buddy just got the Yamaha 3800, but I haven't been able to check it out yet.

I have my basement wired for 7.1 but since my older Denon (avr-3600) was 5.1 I never installed speakers. Does anyone have any experiences with in-ceiling rear surrounds.

Next year I may upgrade my plasma to a 60" 1080p (I've got a 50" 5th gen Panny now).

I have 2 sierras on order and some 200's to handle surround duty and now looking to get a 112, any suggestions on the settings you are using? are you crossing over at 80 or 60?

[lakaw]

I have 2 sierras on order and some 200's to handle surround duty and now looking to get a 112, any suggestions on the settings you are using? are you crossing over at 80 or 60?

I have it crossed over @ 80hz. I calibrated the speakers to 75db at reference level, although I did bump the center channel to 80db. With my Denon I had to set the sub level to +9db in order for the f112 to auto-switch on more consistently. That being said, I changed my f112's Level Mode to variable and have the Master level @ 10o'clock.

[Warpdrv]

I was also having trouble with my auto on feature, bumped it up in my Pioneer and turned down the F112's master level as well... Works great...

[Bono8734]

I havent posted in a long while but i just received my JL Fathom a few days ago and must share my thoughts....WOW !!. This sub is simply the most accurate, richly sounding, smoothest sub i have ever heard. after listening to numerous brands including Velodyne DD 15, B&W, Revel, Rel, M&K (i have an all M&K speaker system w/Rotel RSX 1055) and a few others, JL sounded better and reproduced LFE better than all. The automated calibration system makes it real easy to set the sub for bass response-optimization.

The sub is extremely detailed yet thunders when called upon. Transitions from mid to low frequencies is flawless. I use Gladiator DTS-ES for reference and i was literally able to discern material I never realized was there. In the opening battle scene, numerous LFE sounds like horses running, catapults, explosions, etc are present and the JL flushed them all out with such detail; i was literally almost speachless.

I got a great deal off a dealer on Audiogon located in NJ (if interested, PM me, i will give the info). If you are interested in a truely world class sub with unbelieveable performance, i would highly recommend this sub (that is of course if you don't already have it)....Just my thoughts.

[psujohny]

I bought an F112 about two months ago ( a blind purchase ) ... Having not been happy about how the HSU VTF-HO with turbo was re-acting in my room. Prior to the HSU, I had some older SVS tubes, some 15 inch sealed James Cinema subs and other various brands.
Ive read over and over here on the forums that sealed or ported didnt matter anymore , but my experience was that of all the subs I had, I enjoyed the sealed James subs the most ( at one point I had 4 of them, but ended up with two as my final number ) that is untill the Fathom. People use the term "blown away" all the time and I try not to use that term, but in this case I must say I was blown away by this subwoofer...It is quality all around, Sound quality is sooo pleasing to me, tight, impactfull, and has pretty dag gone good spls and goes down to around 16 hz with the help of my room gain. I had never had "it all" before the fathom ( quality and quanity ) . Plus I get a quality cabinet, great build quality and small size too boot. Cant ask for anything more

[Warpdrv]

Hey that's great Warpdrv. I bet the F112 sounds fantastic with those Paradigm Sigs. I don't suppose you have any pictures of the setup? :)


Ok I just got my new dresser yesterday, so I am not as ashamed to post some pics... I threw some out over at the Paradigm thread, so I'll just link it... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13543180#post13543180

Equipment list is posted there as well...

[craig john]

Nice system Warpdrv! How big is the display? I know you said the pic's make it look small, but I'll bet the sound is much "bigger" than the display.

With your F112 in the corner, have you run ARO? When I had just one F112 and it was in the corner, ARO did a spectacular job for me.

Craig

[Warpdrv]

Nice system Warpdrv! How big is the display? I know you said the pic's make it look small, but I'll bet the sound is much "bigger" than the display.

With your F112 in the corner, have you run ARO? When I had just one F112 and it was in the corner, ARO did a spectacular job for me.

Craig

thanks craig.... Runnin a 42" 8UK, great display but I bought a mount to handle a 50, so when I upgrade in the great room (studio setup) I'll more then likely move that 50" 9UK in here...

The sound is phenomenal, I really love the Sigs... Excellent dynamics, clean sound - power and punch with the D-Sonic 1000ASP's behind them... but hey... everyone has their own speaker love and this thread is about F112..

I ran the ARO, and in my room, it completely softened the blow, which turned me off to it, for now... I guess I just like more EQ options and ability but I am definitely a man of measurements, and thats this room, so I have a ton of ground to cover in the bass department, I need to bring my SMS-1 in here and run a passive test and see how it measures out... but honestly, room gain, and compared to my other system with Dual Plus/2's, the F112 pummels this room without question.... nor adjustment as it sits IMO.

Ultimately I have my sights set on a SVS AS-EQ1 for my great room, and to bring the SMS in here, but ultimately I'm not totally sure I need it.This Sub just pumps it out, completely balanced IMO. If I hadn't heard it for myself, I would have never believed it, the F112 is just honest to god Thunder, plain and simple.

[craig john]

Our sub was reviewed today on the "Secrets" website:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofer-reviews/subwoofers/jl-audio-fathom-f-112-subwoofer_5.html

It's a purely "subjective" review, but Colin Miller clearly loved them! :) :cool:

Craig

[msmith_JL]

Our sub was reviewed today on the "Secrets" website:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofer-reviews/subwoofers/jl-audio-fathom-f-112-subwoofer_5.html

It's a purely "subjective" review, but Colin Miller clearly loved them! :) :cool:

Craig

I would say so! The last section cracked me up.... :D

[jakeman]

Another great review by Colin and this one straight from the heart. :cool: Yeah, those final impressions summed up how we all felt after a month of dual Fathoms. :) Those closing impressions are worth posting:

The impressions have held after living with them for months:
“My #%*^ing lord, Carl.

“While I've never had the pleasure of TWO MX-5000 mkII's for comparison . . . .

“This is way better than sliced Montery Jack cheese with a bottle of good wine and a wicked beef stew.

“With the right music, I'm alone in the house in a cold sweat, giggling like a little freaking girl. I get definition, depth, and dynamics fit for a sloppy wet dream. I'm hearing $#^+ in the low stuff I haven't heard with good headphones.

“I'd really like to call you an @**hole for having such a profound effect on my emotional state, but I think I love you.

“Thanks for stimulating my addiction.

“Seriously, thanks. I haven't had anything this refreshing from audio equipment since a long, long time. This is the kind of $#^+ that makes me want to believe again.

I think he liked it...alot. :D

[craig john]

Another great review by Colin...
I think he liked it...alot. :D
I agree... and I like my Fathom pair A LOT!

I just wish he had included some of the measurements that Ed Mullen used to do when he was a Secrets reviewer. It would have been nice to correlate some objective data with subjective impressions.

Craig

[Warpdrv]

That Review was EPIC !!!!

I nearly pee'd in my pants... ;)

[jakeman]

I hear you Craig. JJ does say that "Yes, the bench tests will be published eventually. We have to get some more test equipment sent over to Colin."

In retrospect, it appears that Ed's reviews were exceptionally well done from both a quantitative aspect as well as a subjective listening perspective. Not many reviewers will have his technical expertise or the equipment needed to measure various perfo