christ, and I thought the "SVS" and "HSU" fanboys and their battles of years past were bad.... :rolleyes:



For its size the JL subs beat the stuffing out of the large SVS. To me price is a secondary concern,very secondary. ANd the JL subs are THE best performing compact subs made. Period

Velodyne's best compact subs do not match the JL SQ and output...and cost more!


it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

I will say this again,I know it was posted many times.But some people cannot get it!

The JL Audio subs are simply of better built quality than anything found under $5000.

From the amazing driver passing by the electronics(simply unmatched quality)going to the enclosure. It is a whole package that is unmatched.

And you have the compactness and SOUND QUALITY with high output down very deep!

Who bests this? No the large SVS do not count,it is very easy to make a large sub that goes deep and loud.Anyone can do this and this is why DIY is so popular.

Now I challenge anyone to do better in the saime size! ;)

Good luck

PS JL Audio's new subs lay the beatdown on many SVS,even using dual drivers! Plus you get better sound quality.

JL did not design these for penny scratchers and those on a budget.These are priced very well.And economical when you pit them VS Velodyne DD series.And I know the JL have Velo beaten too.


just comical!!

http://upshizzle.com/gallery/albums/12.06/fanboyalert.gif

It's best to stay here "DIY Speakers and Subs", anywhere else on AVS
and it's like a dawn of the dead zone with zombies everyone looking for flesh.

Most people over there spend so much money on their subs that they feel insecure and need to defend their purchasing decisions.

Shhh... when you hit close to the truth their sixth sense goes off and they all come running. :)

I like to stay in the DIY forum where us real sub enthusiasts are still living in the real world.

When the people in the regular sub forum acknowledge that 18" drivers are not 'slow muddy disco drivers' and actually understand that going under 15hz IS VERY POSSIBLE and achieved by many DIY subs, then maybe I'll pay attention to what they have to say. Until then, I'll spend my time in the DIY forums.

its not just that though.....

what amuses me is fuktards ranting and raving about 30subs they owe, and that makes them "knowledgeable" in their idiotic minds.....and then they go on a rampage on the aforementioned comments.

just fuking comical! :rolleyes:

I agree that DIY is the real bang for the buck. But many just aren't handy to do it! So, commercial subs are the alt. Look at it this way...their not knocking DIY. Matter of fact, they add DIY into the mix with their shootouts.

I don't think anyone here is knocking them because they didn't DIY.

Be careful, let's not get that dead end going again. :rolleyes:

What would you call it? People here are not poking fun at them? Calling them fan boys? I'm sure all here bought a sub before going DIY. So, their estactic with commecial subs. I've seen many in DIY crowing about theirs. As for me, I like both.

Yeah, Greenspan made the term 'over-exuberance' famous and it sprang from observing such people, but...

I haven't seen any DIYers incorporate features like the E.L.F. trim control, Reference/Variable switch, front panel controls with lighted settings, polarity reverse, selectable LP point/slope, on-board 2.5KW fanless amp, nor output like the JL sub has from a 1X15" sealed sub.

It's a severely cool subwoofer, over-exuberance notwithstanding.

Bosso

What would you call it? Fanboys or over-exuberance will work.
People here are not poking fun at them? Oh no, we are poking fun at them. Just for a different reasons.

It isn't that they like there commercial subs. It's that they get so defensive about their favorite they go on the offense and start attacking one another. All of a sudden everyone who owns said item is an expert on everything, and the one they bought is the be all end all.

Kinda like the "which enclosure alignment is best" war over here. ;)

What would you call it? People here are not poking fun at them? Calling them fan boys? I'm sure all here bought a sub before going DIY. So, their estactic with commecial subs. I've seen many in DIY crowing about theirs. As for me, I like both.
Vitod...there is a difference between over-exhuberance and plain ridiculous statements, and being estatic about a commercial sub you just bought.

re-read the above posts for example....

yes, we all came from commercial subs at one point or another, and as Bosso mentioned, the Fathom is a superb sub and raised the bar for sure.....which means, more performance for us consumers. But the issue is idiotic comments like "SVS don't count...anyone can make large subs that go deep", or "JL beat the stuffing out of SVS", etc,.....you know, anything to justify why you spent $3500 on a single sub instead of fractions of that to get 80-90% the performance.

Surely those of us with big DIY subs, multi-driver sealed subs with EQ/LT/Bassis/etc, IBs, LLTs, etc, etc, are happy with our stuff as well, and would never say an idiotic thing as "the Fathom would Never hang"....yes, 4-6 fathoms or gothams can probably hang with a typical IB, or with Bosso's or KG's setup....yes, 2-3 fathoms can probably hang with my upcoming two towers, and do it at a much much smaller footprint...at a 10x factor obviously.

I dont know...I guess the point is, I just dont understand or can't relate with the likes of some of the people mentioned above, because I for one would never be one to come on an online forum and boast about 30 subwoofers that I owe or whatever, and use that as a measuring stick. But to each its own I guess....its a free country with free speech I guess.

I mean, this is classic stuff right here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9163702&&#post9163702

"ooooh, look at me!!! I have 11tybillion dollars and I can afford all subs....blah blah blah. Oh yeah, look ma', my twin fathom's are on top of some online forum user's list....hooray for me!!"

:rolleyes:

christ, no wonder Yates, nouissaine, kuypers, mullen, deering, and all the others almost never come around these forums.....I'm surprised people like Bosso and a couple of others still hang around despite some of these new gems that are coming on board.

Remember when I asked everyone if we should start a DIY forum?, Many of you said no, including Mr. Callas :p & since i was with AVS @ the time i asked David if we could, you know the rest. guess it was all good in the end hey Sherv?

I don't know about you guys, but I'm noticing many of the same non-informative comments and/or generalizations made again and again...as if they're to be taken as gospel. This is what bothers me most about that section of the forum...

Another thing that bothers me is how people spend $3000 on a sub then have the nerve to compare it to our DIY driver options, as if there are published and established T/S parameters for their drivers etc...and boasting their $3200 option over our options...thats just something I'll never understand since I'll never spend that much on a sub woofer. I guess i would have to justify my purchase..spending THAT much on a sub woofer.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm noticing many of the same non-informative comments and/or generalizations made again and again...as if they're to be taken as gospel. This is what bothers me most about that section of the forum...

Another thing that bothers me is how people spend $3000 on a sub then have the nerve to compare it to our DIY driver options, as if there are published and established T/S parameters for their drivers etc...and boasting their $3200 option over our options...thats just something I'll never understand since I'll never spend that much on a sub woofer. I guess i would have to justify my purchase..spending THAT much on a sub woofer.
oh, but it is such a smaller footprint Rob.....price, performance per dollar, size of driver, etc, is not important, don't you get it?????????????? It's size that's important now! :p

and anyways, if you don't have 30 subs, then your opinion doesn't count, ok?! ;)

Humm, just thinking out loud .....but if I had $3200 to throw at a DIY sub design what would I build. :D

Remember when I asked everyone if we should start a DIY forum?, Many of you said no, including Mr. Callas
Yeah, yeah, yeah :p

I'm quickly realizing, even in business, no matter how much logic, evidence, or proof you have, there are some people who's minds you'll never be able to change. As John Rambo says near the end of Rambo III, F'em :)

Yeah, Greenspan made the term 'over-exuberance' famous and it sprang from observing such people, but...

I haven't seen any DIYers incorporate features like the E.L.F. trim control, Reference/Variable switch, front panel controls with lighted settings, polarity reverse, selectable LP point/slope, on-board 2.5KW fanless amp, nor output like the JL sub has from a 1X15" sealed sub.

It's a severely cool subwoofer, over-exuberance notwithstanding.

Bosso

I would agree that this is a pretty cool design, but really Bosso coming from your eight driver system you have isn't a 13" single driver sub kind of silly (at the 3,500 price point).I don't want to say it's a total joke,but it's about as close to one as I can imagine.

I'm going to be a snob and say it's a waste of money in my world.When I can take 4k and create a subwoofer system that is sealed and has a reference quality variable LT, a 24band PEQ (4)15" drivers that have a total of 12" of(peak to peak) travel and a raw cabinet design that has 500lbs of unmovable mass.6k watts of power and can generate frequencies from the single digits on up to 110db (and beyond) at the listening position.And look butt ugly all at once :D .

I think Sherv has a point.I'm stayin in the DIY forum for two reasons.One is that DIY guys share information that is able to be put to good use.Two, I like unmatched quality in my system and I'm cheap as hell! :D :D :D :D

exactly KG.....christ, for $7K (which is what mr. 30 subs has invested in his twin fathoms) there is just so much damage I could do, that it is just not funny!! Even at the most extreme splurges, I could get 4 x 18" TC LMS5400s in a pair of sealed enclosures, variable LT or DCX2946, EQ outta the wazoo, 16" peak to peak of travel, with tank like cabinet and veneer finishing for the ages, single digit 115dB+ levels and up with less than 10%THD..........or put them in an IB. Alternatively, 8 avalanche 18"s in a similar situation (either sealed, or in an IB) would also create some damage.

the possibilities are endless....

oh wait, but "it doesn't have a small footprint"....and it wont make Craig's list, so shucks....I guess we lose :p

I'd love to see a DIY setup using JL's 13W7. $1100 MSRP for the 13, Around $800 or so on ebay.

Why use the JL 13W7s when we have TC Sounds? ;)

How about a Resonant Engineering XXX 18". It's got 54mm of one-way xmax. Currently the most excursion available just the low low price of $1000.


later
Seth

yes, we all came from commercial subs at one point or another
Not I! Going straight to DIY! :D

I'm so damn cheap I can never buy stuff commercially that I can figure out myself. Hell, I started to build my own computer from scrap parts in 7th grade. Guess that's why I'm gonna be an electrcial engineer :cool:

I would agree that this is a pretty cool design, but really Bosso coming from your eight driver system you have isn't a 13" single driver sub kind of silly (at the 3,500 price point).I don't want to say it's a total joke,but it's about as close to one as I can imagine.

I'm going to be a snob and say it's a waste of money in my world.When I can take 4k and create a subwoofer system that is sealed and has a reference quality variable LT, a 24band PEQ (4)15" drivers that have a total of 12" of(peak to peak) travel and a raw cabinet design that has 500lbs of unmovable mass.6k watts of power and can generate frequencies from the single digits on up to 110db (and beyond) at the listening position.And look butt ugly all at once :D .


Well, KG...you're one of the original cool cats. Your HT looks awesome and your low end is reference quality...zero doubt. BTW, I have some very groovy amps on the bench right now...the whole 2.8KW into an 8 ohm load. One amp per box vs 2 QSCs and it's loaded with some very high tech goodies...all for less stew than the 2 QSCs :cool:

But, just read the posts in this thread, especially after your post. You can see that the bar has been raised by JL all the way into this forum section.

Still, most DIY is a passive sub with a pro amp and Behringer EQ.

Hey Sherv...speaking of vaporware, you TC fans keep talking about the LMS drivers like you've built a sub around them and ran the tests...where the heck are they? And, wait 'til ya see what I got sittin' here...you are gonna sh!t bullets, I garontee. :D I'll be hookin' up with ya as soon as the package is complete ;)

Bosso

Hey Sherv...speaking of vaporware, you TC fans keep talking about the LMS drivers like you've built a sub around them and ran the tests...where the heck are they? And, wait 'til ya see what I got sittin' here...you are gonna sh!t bullets, I garontee. :D I'll be hookin' up with ya as soon as the package is complete ;)

Bosso
Oh no doubt! I'm still patiently waiting here for your creation.....I wish you had them ready so I could mock a replica myself, but you are just waaaaaay too slow for my tastes jack :D I've been waiting well over a year for some news and info on that stuff and still nothing. But I will continue to wait and see ;)

Yeah, I think I'm pretty optimistic on the LMS series of the TC products, even though they are not even out, in part due to past experiences with the LMT technology and in part due to previous TC performance including current offerings like the 2000 and 3000 series. But you know me Bosso, the proof is in the pudding....if these bad boys don't pan out like they should, I'll be the first to admit they were too hyped.

I'm back in the realm of the proven XBL^2 camp for now.....you know, dual 18" versions :p

I agree that it seems that the JL provided a great sub in a small package, but c'mon now...lets get real.

Well, KG...you're one of the original cool cats. Your HT looks awesome and your low end is reference quality...zero doubt. BTW, I have some very groovy amps on the bench right now...the whole 2.8KW into an 8 ohm load. One amp per box vs 2 QSCs and it's loaded with some very high tech goodies...all for less stew than the 2 QSCs :cool:

But, just read the posts in this thread, especially after your post. You can see that the bar has been raised by JL all the way into this forum section.

Still, most DIY is a passive sub with a pro amp and Behringer EQ.

Hey Sherv...speaking of vaporware, you TC fans keep talking about the LMS drivers like you've built a sub around them and ran the tests...where the heck are they? And, wait 'til ya see what I got sittin' here...you are gonna sh!t bullets, I garontee. :D I'll be hookin' up with ya as soon as the package is complete ;)

Bosso

Ya know Bosso, I never began my rant with letting you know that I read all your posts and respect your knowledge.Most of the time I get lost in the banter you and Mullen would throw around. I never meant any disrespect and always look to your intelect as refreshing and a huge plus to the DIY section.

WTS, lets talk about these amps.I'll take a PM if you don't want to side track Sherv's thread.

I will agree totally about the methodology of the DIY reference.Passive,pro amp,pro PEQ. The JL sub will cause more guys to look there instead of plunking ducks down on DIY.Those subs for the cash are alot, but in rethinking, they may cause a fence sitter to say,"Why bother when I can buy a sub like that".

Point well taken.

What would you call it? People here are not poking fun at them? Calling them fan boys? I'm sure all here bought a sub before going DIY. So, their estactic with commecial subs. I've seen many in DIY crowing about theirs. As for me, I like both.


I kinda cheated.I worked for an audio store and had a chance to listen to alot of commercial subs.I also had to go out on some calls from customers who were having problems and we couldn't fix it over the phone.I got to hear a bunch in their homes while on those calls.I thought they did ok, but my lack of funds always pointed me to DIY.The guys at the store laughed it off until I drove one of my Tumults to the store and showed them.People were coming in and wondering what the hell it was.They had never seen a driver out of the box.it was cool.

So, no I never owned a commercial sub :cool: .



KG

I'm sure all here bought a sub before going DIY

Not me. Went from nothing to my big TC-2K sub.

Not me. Went from nothing to my big TC-2K sub.

Me too, from nothing to the 12" Rythmik then to 4 x 18" Sealed then soon to 4 x 18" IB.

I've been spoiled... It's tough for me to appreciate most people's set-ups now. :(

Still, the best set-up I have heard was Chasw98's theater with ALL DIY speakers and DIY sub. Hearing the album Aja by Steely Dan on just his WWMT mains was a memorable experience. After giving his system a listen with the matching surrounds I would have to say it was the best sounding system I have heard to date.

Commercial lovers can say what they want about DIY, but after hearing a $500 pair of DIY speakers with a $500 DIY sub compared to the ridiculously priced top of the line Martin Logan speakers and the top of the line Martin Logan sub I can say that DIY sounded better to my ears than Martin Logans.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with buying a sub or having owned a commercial sub. Its the comparing of retail subs to DIY subs that cause problems. The "hype"/misunderstanding of the inner workings of a sub by many who just buy pre-built subs and make completely off the wall performance claims based on absolutely no data is what causes conflict...and annoys me.

Normally I'm not the type of person who makes wide generalizations, but it is often the case that people who go through a period of time and patience designing DIY speakers/subs taking many variables into consideration when designing a speaker well suited for their own tastes will have a much more educated/unbiased/ and broader understanding of how subwoofers work than those who just buy subs based on amp power, published f3 numbers and driver size...who then proceed to whale about how their sub is the best! :D

Edit: And not to mention, people who bring up the size/output ratio of the Fathom are totally overlooking the necessary power required to get any decent SPL in that small of a box... hence the 2500watt rated amp. There ISN'T anything magical about the fathom...high excursion driver and a lot of amp power in a small box...so what? What sets it apart from most DIY projects are the features on its conveniently located front mounted control panel, and i guess its aesthetically pleasing (subjective).

Not me. Went from nothing to my big TC-2K sub.
Lies :p

I built my first subwoofer. I didn't buy one. As far as all the "hype" around the JL's maybe they are really good subs. The accounts I've been told from people I trust indicate it's a nice sub.

Lies :p

I assure you it is not a lie. ;)

I built my first subwoofer. I didn't buy one. As far as all the "hype" around the JL's maybe they are really good subs. The accounts I've been told from people I trust indicate it's a nice sub.

Sure, but everyone should know this FACT. When it comes to subwoofer frequencies, you need to move alot of air. One 12" sub or even two in a sealed enclosure are never going to come close to a large ported 15" sub (let's not even mention IB). It might be a nice sub if:

-Your wife/husband is the deciding factor on what can go into the living room.
-You don't want to build something.
-You want a warranty.
-You want to be able to brag on AVS that you bought 2 JL whatever ridiculously expensive subwoofer.

I think we are looking at this all wrong, it wasn't too long ago that owning a sub was something unusual. When I first came on this forum, not too long ago, getting a sub that hit around 20hz was fantastic, but you had to pay to get that performance. Now look,all types of new subs are coming out that are in that rang and each one is cheaper then the last. I welcome JL's sub, anything that pushes the bar only makes a new standard to shoot for, if you think that SVS and HSU won't push it to compete your kidding yourself. The same is happening in the DIY world,when I first started building a diy the Quatre was where it was at for allot of people, now im sure there are a few individuals who have no idea what a Quatre is. Really we are kidding ourselves comparing the individual who will pay $4000 to a DIYer, they are in no way the same breed. One doesn't mind dropping vast amounts of cash for a sub that is dressed to impress, the other wants to get the maximum performance for the minimum in price and if that means its big and ugly so be it. I have two friends who only buy subs, one with a hsu the other with an svs and they look at my llt Diy projects as a freak show.
All I can say to them is welcome to the show.

I go to the other sub forum solely because there are so many people there who don't know a damn thing about how a subwoofer works, yet act like experts. It's hilarious! :D

Chris B (crackyflipside) - Thanks for the compliments. I appreciate it.

I think we are looking at this all wrong, it wasn't too long ago that owning a sub was something unusual. When I first came on this forum, not too long ago, getting a sub that hit around 20hz was fantastic, but you had to pay to get that performance.

Now gentleman, here is a shot of my first DIY project. I think it was before TV so I only had 4 of them in my living room. Not quite a sub, but it blew away most college systems in those days.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/A7.jpg

Honest, a friend and I built 4 of them soaking the birch plywood in the bathtub to bend the horns BTW they have been reissued at $6100.00 shipped to your door!. That was 25 years ago and I have been a sub fan ever since, commercial or DIY. But it is fun to see Sherv get on his soapbox and pontificate. :D

Chuck

....But it is fun to see Sherv get on his soapbox and pontificate. :D

Chuck
you know me brother... :D ............anything to bring some sanity back to the board! :p

ps- and dont be taking too long of a break...the sonos should be in the next day or two, so we got work to do! :eek: :D

so we got work to do! :eek: :D

We do! :rolleyes:

I don't know about you guys, but I'm noticing many of the same non-informative comments and/or generalizations made again and again...
There certainly has been a big increase in noise over the past month or so. But much of it is from just a handful of accounts, many of which are very new. It would be interesting to see the IPs. I suspect the cheerleading squad isn't as big as it first appears. ;)

Geezus Christ!!! http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/hahano.gif

I haven't visited the regular forum for a couple of weeks, and just doing a quick run-down of the threads, it's just sad and comical at the same time http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/sad.gif

Hsu this
svs that
f113/f112 rules
do I need a Y splitter?
is one sub vs 2 ok?
oh my gosh, this rules..


whatever happened to the SCIENCE in AVS? :confused:........christ, i dont know why this annoys me so much

Hey guys,

I am not trying to tick people off, but please don't lose sight of the good things.

It is nice that this hobby, we are not saving lives here, has grown more popluar and mainstream.

It is exciting time to be into this stuff, new products that are better and better keep on rolling out. It is amazing what has come along in just the last 5 years alone!

These forums give a chance for everyone to voice an opinion or get excited about a product or project.

Almost everyone is as passionate about whatever the category, or brand, or enclosure type, or amp, or eq, or measurement criteria, or commercial sub, or DIY project as you and I are. That passion is what keeps us all coming here! With the growth in popularity of "subwoofing" it is not just the hobby of the wealthy and/or experts. Now, everyone can get in to the game. That inherently has its plusses and minuses and it is only going to get worse as HT becomes more and more popular along with forums like these...
When you have that many people in the same place you are inevitably going to find someone or in this case many people that you don't care for and/or don't respect. That is true no matter what the venue. With enough people you are always going to have the percentage of jackasses...Simply put, when you get enough people together and compound it with people asking for and in more cases giving advice it can get ugly. It is no different with politics than with subwoofers, exactly the same when you think about it. The views and opinions of each individual are based on that individual's experiences and knowledge level and there is a tremendous range of that here. Often times there is no absolute right and wrong answer.

I am so grateful to the knowledge and advice I have gleaned from these forums and some of the fantastic individuals that reside here. I have learned here in a short time what it would have taken years for me to do otherwise.

Just try to keep in all in perspective and respect those that deserve it and ignore the ones that don't. We can all play nice, that is what we doing here right? This stuff is supposed to be FUN!

That passion is what keeps us all coming here!

I dont know about you but Im just avoiding work during the day and baby duties at night by being on here ;)

I dont know about you but Im just avoiding work during the day and baby duties at night by being on here ;)
:D

I dont know about you but Im just avoiding work during the day and baby duties at night by being on here ;)

Good one! No question about the work side :D

Often times there is no absolute right and wrong answer.

Of course, and I think that most people in this section understand that. I see the main difference between the two sections being that the sub section has too many fanboys. We have fanboys here too, ones who strictly believe in one design above all others, but over there it is "omg ___ is the best!" and whenever someone says something to the contrary, they explode.

I don't care if someone believes in something else, or even tries to promote it, as long as it makes sense to me and they present it in a thoughtful logical manner. That is not often done in the other section. It is a bunch of subjective babbling and people who have little understanding of how subs work.

Thats just my opinion though.

Don't forget... Mr. 30 Subs is a highly controversial figure. When asked to produce pictures of his subs, he fumbles and forgets and finally gives up claiming he doesn't know how to use a digital camera. There once was a thread with MANY links to his games on other forums. The thread got pretty nasty and has since been deleted, but I looked at all the links and I must say this guys credibility is about 0. He either has money growing on trees, or everyone on the commercial sub forum fooled, because 30 subwoofers have never been seen!

I love my IB sub, it is the best...DAMMIT!!! :D

Don't forget... Mr. 30 Subs is a highly controversial figure. When asked to produce pictures of his subs, he fumbles and forgets and finally gives up claiming he doesn't know how to use a digital camera. There once was a thread with MANY links to his games on other forums. The thread got pretty nasty and has since been deleted, but I looked at all the links and I must say this guys credibility is about 0. He either has money growing on trees, or everyone on the commercial sub forum fooled, because 30 subwoofers have never been seen!
I'm not surprised! I called his bluff when he first started appearing, and quickly figured he is full of it.

When one owes 30 cars, even if you have the faintest idea on how to drive them or how they operate, by car 22 you have a decent idea on the characteristics of all-wheel drive vs rear-wheel, air suspension vs coilovers, staggered tires vs all-arounds, v4 vs v6 vs v8 characteristics, forced induction vs naturally aspirated, feel and form of german vs japanese vs american, etc, etc, etc...........by sub number 8, one outta have a decent idea on how a sub behaves with regards to output compression, distortion, transient response, alignment, extension and headroom, etc, etc...............you would think that one would graduate from "JL F113 is the best subwoofer in the world" to talking about how well it reproduces subsonic notes without elevating distortion levels to the audible range, etc.

who knows man....maybe i'm asking too much

Guys,

I do agree that I get tired of reading a lot of the comments in the regular forum. I am now running a dual sealed DIY 15" setup. I have owned LOTS of different subwoofers including the Fathom F113.

The DIY option I have now was about $2000 in parts. Fathoms can be bought below MSRP. Believe it or not... the F113s performance in my room was VERY similar to the performance I am getting out of my DIY with 2 15s.

While I do not agree that it is the end all of factory subs, I do believe that it is VERY VERY good even given its price.

I am not supporting everything you are reading in the "other" forum. I am just giving my viewpoint having owned one and several other options.

-Eli

Geezus Christ!!! http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/hahano.gif

I haven't visited the regular forum for a couple of weeks, and just doing a quick run-down of the threads, it's just sad and comical at the same time http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/sad.gif

Hsu this
svs that
f113/f112 rules
do I need a Y splitter?
is one sub vs 2 ok?
oh my gosh, this rules..


whatever happened to the SCIENCE in AVS? :confused:........christ, i dont know why this annoys me so much

AVS has been a commercial biased forum for a long time. Exception is the HT
theater construction forum which has alot of DIY. Then came the DIY speakers/sub forum which is pretty good, but the majority of the talk is subs.

That type of behavior is common on non DIY forums. Don't ruin their party,
it's not fair to crash their party because some people can't do DIY projects
and it's not cool to harp on them. It's not cool to go to the $20k forum and
tell them that you can make your own cables for cents while they spend
a thousand dollars. :)


... even thought it's not cool, sometimes we jump the fence and throw
a water balloon :p :p :p :D

While I do not agree that it is the end all of factory subs, I do believe that it is VERY VERY good even given its price.

-Eli


I have never hear it side by side others, but it is impressive in its output and SQ for such small cabinet and driver.

I have never hear it side by side others, but it is impressive in its output and SQ for such small cabinet and driver.

Which is achieved by having lots of power and lots of corrective electronics = $$$$$

Which is achieved by having lots of power and lots of corrective electronics = $$$$$

No doubt there, but impressive nonetheless.

It is hard to do a DIY and sqeeze all that into one cabinet....even when money is not a factor.

Hi all.

I've recently started getting involved with HT setups and I am very tight with budget. After reading all the post in this thread and some others, I am thinking about making my own sub(first thing I want to upgrade on Onkyo 790 HTIB). Before I get riduculed about the onkyo htib, I got it as a present and it has started my interest in HT that i didn't have before, so its not that bad.
I was orginally looking at the svs pb10 or the bic 100. Since I am new I dont have a passionate desire of one sub over another.
I can handle the saws, wood, glue, etc, but what I fearful of is buying all the stuff (hopefully like $500?) and the sub not working. I haven't done a whole lot of projects with electronics so I guess my question is did you guys just build it, or did you hand around for a while? Also, were you happy with your 1st diy sub project?

The sub simply not working is one of the last things you should worry about. If the driver or amp isn't broken, the the sub will work. This is no different from a commercial sub.

The main thing is figuring your budget out, size limits/requirements, and what kind of performance you are looking for. Then you choose driver(s) and amp(s) accordingly.

It is every message board or forum on the internet. Say it enough and it is true. TV news too for that matter. :eek:

What a piker I am, really el cheapo drivers, eBay electronics, DSP from Behringer, a Nady XA900s, a hole in the wall, and I have all the sub woofer I want for under $300. The second Nady will drive mid sub woofers over the mains using another el cheapo off eBay, the Behringer CX3400 crossover. So there we have another $125.

I joined the DIY group with a little sonotube and am very pleased with it. But I still have not figured out the "headroom" of a sub.

I joined the DIY group with a little sonotube and am very pleased with it. But I still have not figured out the "headroom" of a sub.

You know, buy a big enough sub so when you cut the hole in the cabinet you can stick your head in. :D :p

Headroom for any of our audio products is quite simple. The output of our amps and transducers (speakers) are measured in dB. If you are using your amplifier at 10 watts and it is capable of 100 watts you have 19 dB of headroom.

If you can drive your speakers to output 110 dB and usually use them at 100 dB you then have 10 dB of headroom in the speaker.

What headroom gives you is a better ability to reproduce soft and loud passages without distortion.

When I first saw the new triangular Klipsch sub, I'll admit that I salivated over the danged thing. Unfortunately, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I'm not a overpaid white collar worker living off the labor of someone else yet deciding their fate... I'm a lowly CNC machinist that is out on medical leave waiting on the surgery I had on my elbow to heal so I can go back to work. The bottom line is I can't afford the overpriced "high end" equipment that I'd love to have so I went DIY to try to get as good a product as I could to meet MY idea of what I wanted within my 80% med leave budget.

I never claimed mine is superior. Personally, I could give a flip! Fact of the matter is I built it, I'm proud of the finished product, and I can honestly say theres not another exactly like it to my knowledge. Yes, I do know there are other designs with more output, more power, bigger woofer, ect. ect. Personally, I'd be ashamed to say I wasted cash and bought a store bought mega-dollar anything when my buds can come over and oooh and ahhh over something they think I bought once they found out I was the end all do all of the project. If someone has so much cash they can do and buy anything.... buy tools and be somebody!

Big wad snobs need not apply here!

Oh no doubt! I'm still patiently waiting here for your creation.....I wish you had them ready so I could mock a replica myself, but you are just waaaaaay too slow for my tastes jack :D I've been waiting well over a year for some news and info on that stuff and still nothing. But I will continue to wait and see ;)

Yeah, I think I'm pretty optimistic on the LMS series of the TC products, even though they are not even out, in part due to past experiences with the LMT technology and in part due to previous TC performance including current offerings like the 2000 and 3000 series. But you know me Bosso, the proof is in the pudding....if these bad boys don't pan out like they should, I'll be the first to admit they were too hyped.

I'm back in the realm of the proven XBL^2 camp for now.....you know, dual 18" versions :p

I agree that it seems that the JL provided a great sub in a small package, but c'mon now...lets get real.

5 are going out this week, hopfully some user reviews will be out soon.


Here is one 18" in a 3.6 ft^3 sealed box

http://www.tcsounds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=677

I think it is time for an invasion.

I say the DIY section takes the TC Sound 15" LMS-5400 in a small sealed box(<1.5ft^3) with an LT circuit and beats the subwoofer section over the head with it. This will kill the F112 and F113 and cost about $1k less!

God I wish TC Sound would make something like this.

I think it is time for an invasion.

I say the DIY section takes the TC Sound 15" LMS-5400 in a small sealed box(<1.5ft^3) with an LT circuit and beats the subwoofer section over the head with it. This will kill the F112 and F113 and cost about $1k less!

God I wish TC Sound would make something like this.

How do you figure it would cost $1000 less? What are you going to power it with?

-Eli

I think it is time for an invasion.

I say the DIY section takes the TC Sound 15" LMS-5400 in a small sealed box(<1.5ft^3) with an LT circuit and beats the subwoofer section over the head with it. This will kill the F112 and F113 and cost about $1k less!

God I wish TC Sound would make something like this.

The 4100neo (whenever it comes out) will really be a more direct "competitor" to a driver like the one used in the Fathoms/Gotham.

How do you figure it would cost $1000 less? What are you going to power it with?

-Eli

Eli, if the driver costs $1000 retail, and an enclosure say $500, and a built in amp say $500, you are still at around $2000 retail and the F113 is $3200-3300 retail...and those guestimates are with plenty of profit for TCS.

Eli, if the driver costs $1000 retail, and an enclosure say $500, and a built in amp say $500, you are still at around $2000 retail and the F113 is $3200-3300 retail...and those guestimates are with plenty of profit for TCS.

There are 2 problems there...

First off a $500 plate amp is not going to drive that 5400 to comparable levels with the Fathoms.

Next, Prices below retail cannot (and should not) be posted here. If you do a little research you will see what the Fathoms can really be bought for.

Also remember that the Fathoms come with an advanced single band PEQ, room measurement, LFE trim, and a very powerful state of the art amplifier.

With loudspeakers, the reward is very high if you can DIY.

With Subwoofers it seems more competitive vs. DIY until you reach a higher price bracket.

ie,

You can beat JL Fathom for less money, but if you don't have the skill or tools to execute
the plan, you may spend more money trying accomplish this feat vs. just buying the JL.

On the other hand, if you are thinking of buying four JL's, $8000 budget, then the DIY
rewards start kicking in at high gear as you can do alot with that budget. You can buy
eight killer 15's woofers for $3200 and snag two 6kw proamps for $4400 and murder
the JL product. {evil}

You guys are laughing at the folks in commercial sub land.

Well me mother could build a decent sub, the real work starts when you design and build your own loudspeakers that don't sound like shite.


So keep quiet girls. :D

Yeah.............., car audio, HT audio, it's all about the sub........ lol

Have you noticed that I haven't contaminated your build thread on diyaudio?
I want to give you some peace and quiet so you can enjoy the build. Here's
my tip for 2007. Don't get influenced by those DIYaudio folks, use good common
sense judgement and trust your ears. Experimenting rules.

I still think you shoulda gone for the big line array build, maybe it's your
2008 project destiny ;) :) ;) :) :D

My favorite tweeter or an array of Raal would be planet earth elite,
but unsure if it can compete with drivers found on Mars ;)



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/tism46.jpg

A third one for center channel ? :p :)

Yeah.............., car audio, HT audio, it's all about the sub........ lol

Have you noticed that I haven't contaminated your build thread on diyaudio?
I want to give you some peace and quiet so you can enjoy the build. Here's
my tip for 2007. Don't get influenced by those DIYaudio folks, use good common
sense judgement and trust your ears. Experimenting rules.

Yeah I've missed you over on DIYA. Although sometimes we don't agree its always a good laugh anyway.

But yes, it can drag you down with all the 'arm chair designers' that think they know as much about your project and what you want from it as you do but there's also the folks that do offer something constructive and balanced. What your talking about is pretty much why I took a break from the forums, kept quiet for four months whilst figuring out what I wanted and then came with my ideas only after this. Its just plain easier that way.

I still think you shoulda gone for the big line array build, maybe it's your
2008 project destiny ;) :) ;) :) :D

Sod that, after this one I'm building some bookshelves.

My favorite tweeter or an array of Raal would be planet earth elite,
but unsure if it can compete with drivers found on Mars ;)

You want to have a word with Alex, he'll build some proper tweeters instead of the SA's. :p

A third one for center channel ? :p :)

Funnily enough... nah just kiddin'. :D

Commercial subs are more expensive because they are competing on who can make a smaller box and still reach reference levels to the high teens. To do that, they need a high output driver since the volume is so low in the enclosure. Then they will need monster power capabilities and a TON of correcting electronics to drive that monster woofer with somewhat low distortion.

If you want a itty bitty sized sub that makes BIG sound you gotta spend BIG money! DIY would not be as cost effective in this aspect unless there were a real cheap place online to get the correcting electronics.

There are 2 problems there...

First off a $500 plate amp is not going to drive that 5400 to comparable levels with the Fathoms.

Next, Prices below retail cannot (and should not) be posted here. If you do a little research you will see what the Fathoms can really be bought for.

Also remember that the Fathoms come with an advanced single band PEQ, room measurement, LFE trim, and a very powerful state of the art amplifier.

A EP2500 and a BFD can drive the 5400 or the 4100 neo!

$500 for the enclosure! Damn, I spent like $50~$100 on mine including real oak 1/4 plywood.

A EP2500 and a BFD can drive the 5400 or the 4100 neo!

You can also use this vehicle to drive ........
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/sixta78/GhettoBoomBox.jpg :eek:

A EP2500 and a BFD can drive the 5400 or the 4100 neo!

You can also use this vehicle to drive ........
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/sixta78/GhettoBoomBox.jpg :eek:


Yup... a true ghetto blaster there!

The funny thing is most people don't list the complete price of a DIY sub.

Some of the biggest saving from a DIY sub come from the free labor and not having to ship a completed sub.

Add the cost of shipping your sub and the cost of labour and you would be close to the price of a commercial sub.

Add the cost of shipping your sub and the cost of labour and you would be close to the price of a commercial sub.

But you have to remember that even if you take those things into account, one can still (and would often) end up with more performance for the same $$$ as the commercial sub.

But yeah, it is very simple: If Joe Blow doesn't know how or feel like building something with his hands then he can either pay someone to do it for him, or buy a commercial sub. That is what it comes down to...

Manville is selling HT subs now and getting close to 4 grand a pop? Holy marketing genius batman!!! :D :eek: :D

The 4100neo (whenever it comes out) will really be a more direct "competitor" to a driver like the one used in the Fathoms/Gotham.

:cool:

http://www.tcsounds.com/images/04.jpg

Shinobiwan... very impressive stuff!

Shinobiwan... very impressive stuff!

Thank Kyle, it is Kyle right? :)

If you like I could spray the TC sounds logo on the sides as advertising and all I'd ask in return is a measly LMS5400 :D

The 4100neo looks great so far! ;)

good lord....these people never stop! LMAO!!! check this out:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10109074&&#post10109074

it degenerates from there....christ! :rolleyes:

Sherv - Man, that thread is killer! lmao.

What a bunch of 'tards, no offense. I mean...we aren't the ones blowing money on lesser performing equipment here. :rolleyes:

:cool:

http://www.tcsounds.com/images/04.jpg

I'll take one.......no wait make that two. :D

When will these be available? Any more info or specs?

wow.

i have no words for that thread you posted Sherv.

Exactly.

The DIY guys use a nice little program,they input driver data,simulate with box size and various designs.Cut some MDF,inhale MDF dust and claim to be world class beyond world class. :p

One thing is sure,it is rewarding to say you build the sub yourself(with the help


it almost sounds like we can never do this=> http://www.triadspeakers.com/abouttriad_factorytour.html

at home :( but with varying degrees of resources and skill levels, it still could be done :rolleyes:

Except for the fancy router jigs and the nice numerical control machines, looks like most of the projects posted here and elsewhere. BWAHAHAHAHAHA a nice manly laugh for the DIYers.

exactly :p

i know TheEar was kiddin' around (i guess), but some actually do feel that way :(

Go over and check out the posts by spyboy. Yoy, one different bird there. :eek:

Hello DIYers,

I see a very IRRITATED man here. Starting a thread in my honor!

You can call me a fanboy(an empty claim)since I own too many subs to be a fanboy of one or a few companies.

And my post about DIY people eating MDF dust was poking fun.And my sealed VS ported comments where about what is sold in stores,not DIY.ssabripo is taking things his way and stretching them.

DIY pushed the edge of subwoofer performance,and I know this.As all comercial subs are quite limited in one way or another (often by size,for practical reasons).

Quoting my overblown positive comments when I got my first f113! Yes it is funny.

Now ssabripo,flame away. :rolleyes:

exactly :p

i know TheEar was kiddin' around (i guess), but some actually do feel that way :(

Thank you for seeing it this way.

If I had to have the ultimate sub only DIY would be the answer. Using multiples of the LMS-5400.

Someone make it stop!

Can the commercial trolls crawl back to the regular subs forum and leave the big boys alone...

Venting like this only provokes people, we just need to let it be. TheEAR just needs to sit tight till TCsounds releases the beast later this year, then he can have the performance of extreme DIY and the convenience of a commercial sub.

Hello DIYers,

I see a very IRRITATED man here. Starting a thread in my honor!

You can call me a fanboy(an empty claim)since I own too many subs to be a fanboy of one or a few companies.

And my post about DIY people eating MDF dust was poking fun.And my sealed VS ported comments where about what is sold in stores,not DIY.ssabripo is taking things his way and stretching them.

DIY pushed the edge of subwoofer performance,and I know this.As all comercial subs are quite limited in one way or another (often by size,for practical reasons).

Quoting my overblown positive comments when I got my first f113! Yes it is funny.

Now ssabripo,flame away. :rolleyes:
no buddy boy, you dont even come in my thoughts at the worst moments....you are just way too comical to take anything you say seriously.

if and when you put your pom poms down and start to contribute in an unbiased and intelligent manner, like most here do, then i'm all good.

if you wanna keep chest pounding about your mystical 30 subs, your constant man love for the F113, and your assortment of canned stereotypical replies, then you are gonna continue to be the source of ridicule......MOST here feel this way about you, I just had the balls to say it to your face. ;)

if you wanna keep chest pounding about your mystical 30 subs
If I understand correctly.... new to the Forum, 30 subs and no pics? mmm.. ok:) Your posting personality doesn't correlate though?
then he can have the performance of extreme DIY and the convenience of a commercial sub.
Bingo!

Here's how I see it:

I have nothing against 'TheEar' per se. However, 99% of this controversy could be avoided very easily.

Why does someone that feels the need to have a signature that claims to have 30 subs not simply make the singature a link to a photo of at least several of these subs? :confused:

It would only take second and it would stop all this nonsense!! :mad:

It the 'TheEar' wants some/more credibilty here why not just update your signature? It doesn't sound all that difficult to me.

I do know one thing, this bickering about it is getting old too. :(

Someone make it stop!

Can the commercial trolls crawl back to the regular subs forum and leave the big boys alone...



Your buddy called me out playing Mr Armchair tough guy in that same COMMERCIAL FORUM. Bringing DIY into that section,that is trolling at its finest,nobody brings commercial subs here to your section so stay out of the commercial with DIY pushing.

Anyone who wants the ultimate and wants to build will come here regardless what I say or opthers say about the Fathom and company.

I see the real reason,source for your anger here.I did not pist pics for all you to see! :p

Now I understand ,kids want to see...looky looky! I feel my place is like a giant mess now and truth be told I am reluctant.If I post close up pics anyone can say they can come from anywhere.

For now I leave you proud people to your leader sabripo and let you beat a dead horse further.

I see the real reason,source for your anger here.I did not pist pics for all you to see! :p

Now I understand ,kids want to see...looky looky! I feel my place is like a giant mess now and truth be told I am reluctant.If I post close up pics anyone can say they can come from anywhere.

For now I leave you proud people to your leader sabripo and let you beat a dead horse further.

Dear Ear,

Don't take it personally, as I have never attacked you or questioned you on anything! I am just trying to put an end to all this madness and help you out here! :eek: Also, I am not angry about anything, I have no reason to be.

Surely, you can see that if anyone including myself makes claims to own 30 of anything hobby related, and makes suggestions to others based on that ownership exeprience, it would only be logical that some would want to have some sort of proof. :confused:

What if I went on a home networking forum and claimed to have 30 servers in my house? What if I went on a Chevy forum and claimed to have 30 Corvettes? Think about it!

That is not being weird or radical or whatever. It is just common sense!
So, instead of getting mad about it why not just do it and shut everyone up, it is that simple. WHY CONTINUE THIS CRAP?

So, if you get attacked in the future you have no one to blame but yourself. Most people, including me are respectful and considerate towards others, others are not. I am not attacking nor defending anyone, but you have all the power here, surely you can see this?? Obviously this is not the first time you have been in this situation either!

BTW, I have no "leader" here. And, I also own commercial subs, 2 not 30...

For now I leave you proud people to your leader sabripo and let you beat a dead horse further.
No he's not our leader, (or maybe I should say my) but I do respect Sherv and highly value his input as I'm sure this is the case with many others. No what gets me is that I have had those 30 subs (not counting DIY) and know the mentality associated. Not that gives me a right to take your inventory, but you arnt adding up.. on my calculator anyway.
Now I understand ,kids want to see...looky looky!
Really! Well ok your entitled, but I assure you I have other reasons.

Your buddy called me out playing Mr Armchair tough guy in that same COMMERCIAL FORUM. Bringing DIY into that section,that is trolling at its finest,nobody brings commercial subs here to your section so stay out of the commercial with DIY pushing.
your lack of basic logic and forum intelligence is mind boggling! :rolleyes:

first of, I didn't go to your precious "commercial" forum but rather posted a reply to one of your dialy absurd comments. Since you are very good at not understanding when reading, let me break it down for you:

KGveteran expressed his view on the "underated subwoofers" thread:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10107880&&#post10107880
I couldn't imagine purchasing a subwoofer. DIY is the way to go. If you really want to experience world class go to the DIY section, we will welcome you and get those numbers in room, but that means going to the dark side

you, as always, decided to be "funny" (as you say, backpeddling once I called your bluff) by saying this:
Exactly.
The DIY guys use a nice little program,they input driver data,simulate with box size and various designs.Cut some MDF,inhale MDF dust and claim to be world class beyond world class. :p
One thing is sure,it is rewarding to say you build the sub yourself(with the help
:rolleyes:
and THAT is when I jumped into the thread.... when your constant man-love and trolling stop, I will give you due respect; till then, keep digging your own hole.


secondly, you must be more challenged than I thought if you thought I am the "leader" here....LOL :rolleyes: I'm just one of the guys. We all have learned a few things from each other, and have gone thru many experiences and intelligent debates, heated ones at times. I've contributed in my own humble way to this community forum by providing several informative threads, DIY posts on not only subwoofers, but cables, interconnects, and some tweaks and video display setup guides.....and many of the guys here have done even more.

I continue to support Commercial offerings, and continue to learn from some of the good products out there. Who do you think is organizing a trip to the JL facilities to meet up with their engineers, see the prodcution line, get technical details and Q&A with the creators of the Fathom and gotham, etc? :rolleyes:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=819899

you see, we DIYers dont go spewing the absurd posts you do, but we learn and try to understand the pros and cons of certain alignments and particular implementations thereof.


but seeing as you wanna continue making a genius out of yourself with your enlightening posts, I'll sit back and enjoy the amusing childish entertainment while it lasts. ;)

Ok I just read the whole thread and what can you do but laugh lol. I think DIY subs are great for some people but I don't want to be bothered doing it, I'd rather just go buy something and that be the end of it. Ya I know the performance could/would be better with a diy but I pay for convince. Alot of the DIYers seem to feel it is silly to spend money on B&M subs but If we have the money and want to spend it on them why would you care?
When your car breaks down what do you do fix it yourself?? Not likely, you take it to a garage because you don't have the proper tools to fix any of the newer vehicles so you take it to a repair shop so you don't have to DIY.
I'm a Autobody painter and a Mechanic and I like to laugh at all the morons you know nothing about their vehicles but seem to think they do, But at the same time I understand that its not very important to most people to even give a flying crap about it either cause thats why they take it to people who know what they are doing.
I might be able to build a sub, I'm sure it would look like crap, I'd have to buy the tools needed for woodworking and take the time (which I don't have) to do it all but at the end of the day its just not for me and alot of other people.

Also the ear has helped alot of people on this forum and who are you to say he doesn't have 30 subs? I'm sure half of the people on these forums are full of ****, Hell I might be a 15 year old girl and live in space. Just because you have a pic of something doesn't prove anything all it proves is you know what a picture is.

Now I understand ,kids want to see...looky looky! I feel my place is like a giant mess now and truth be told I am reluctant.If I post close up pics anyone can say they can come from anywhere.


You can post close-ups and write something on a piece of paper in the picture that proves that you took them. It's really not hard.

This is really in jest, remember when the world ran on "ether".

Well now we have a new low frequency phenom, vapor subs. LOL

N8, i dont think anyone is disputing your point. Yes, DIY is not for everyone, and there are outstanding offerings on both sides. cheers.

however, i find this curious:
....Also the ear has helped alot of people on this forum ...
could you be kind enough to point me to a couple of such posts if you dont mind....hey, I'm always up for the pleasant surprise

Here (http://www.dreamnid.com/theear/alteclansing/almx5021/default.php) is theEars website. Behold his mighty collection!

I think most of us as skeptical he owns 30 commercial subs. Maybe he does? Fact is, he's been asked on many other forums for pictures and produces a myriad of different excuses to not post any pictures. Who wouldn't wanna see a room full of subwoofers?

Bottom line - If you brag about something and you can't back it up, the red flag goes up. Some people see it, others blindly follow the words. This goes for anything in life, not just subwoofers.

Dr V

Here (http://www.dreamnid.com/theear/alteclansing/almx5021/default.php) is theEars website. Behold his mighty collection!

I think most of us as skeptical he owns 30 commercial subs. Maybe he does? Fact is, he's been asked on many other forums for pictures and produces a myriad of different excuses to not post any pictures. Who wouldn't wanna see a room full of subwoofers?

Bottom line - If you brag about something and you can't back it up, the red flag goes up. Some people see it, others blindly follow the words. This goes for anything in life, not just subwoofers.

Dr V


Hello hello this was from a PC speaker comparo I did for fun for a PC speaker forum.You are well schooled by Zissou! PS I am sure Zissou emailed you the links. ;)

PC speakers...not subs...hello. This was done several years ago when they came out to the market.

You little people try to play at war,on AVS. Did you know you will get NOTHING out of me with your nauseating childish BS. I can stretch ssabripoo over 1000 pages if I so decide.He is a funny little angry man.


If sabripoo was as "bright" as he claims he would ignore a troll (troll he tries hard paint on me).

now for each person reading this very constructive thread started by SABRIPOO start GOOGLE searches and type TheEAR or theear and see what you can come up with. :p

and THAT is when I jumped into the thread.... when your constant man-love and trolling stop, I will give you due respect; till then, keep digging your own hole.



sabripoo,

Yes and that is when the pressure gauge blew on your head! As smart and outspoken as you are you acted like a child! And you dare make jokes about your president! :rolleyes:

If you have not noticed the class people like Mark S. and others here always repply in a polite manner.Even to people who would deserve a good kick in the posterior. All your DIY projects have blinded your mind,the glue inhalation made you an agressive but hilarious AVS member.

I again thank you for starting a nice FAT thread in my honor. ;)

Lets see how far she goes...

funny...you keep dancing around and contributing nothing except your continuing insight into your double digit IQ. "sabripoo"??? this is the best attempt at an insult you can come up with?? Perhaps if you hurl another couple of insults at my family name or the cardboard subs, you will get to feel a bit better about your insignificant existence in AVS.

Ignoring you is too easy. Calling your bluff, your insignificance, and your lack of knowledge, and exposing you out in the public, in case new members who dont know you fall prey to your chest pounding, is much more gratifying....

5 months, 800 posts, childish rhetoric, and a cute little signature, is what you bring to the table.

Ok Ok O...friggin'K

Something tells me I should let it go..., but truth be told, I suggested to David we start a DIY section on the forum with good intentions, and never thought it would come to this:( I WAS the AVS Audio dealer but had another calling that took up more of my time, but that never stopped me from contributing to AVS anyway I can.

Please don't mirror the Blu/HDDVD forum, that forum is somewhat a mess with fanboism....

TheREar :

I do not know who Zissou is, so I don't know where you are going with that other than wishful thinking and a diversion of the facts. Go back and reread truly important part my post. The proof is in the pudding, and your plate is empty my friend. You need to put some substance behind your claims and you might get some respect.

While I don't personally know Ssabripo, I can tell you he is well respected here. We've seen many pictures of his projects and his trip to CES hanging out with industry greats from SVS, TCSounds, JL, ect. His contributions to the forum command respect. What have you brought to the table? Tho I don't post often, I've been here for years not months like yourself. I've seen your kind before.

Dr V

funny...you keep dancing around and contributing nothing except your continuing insight into your double digit IQ. "sabripoo"??? this is the best attempt at an insult you can come up with?? Perhaps if you hurl another couple of insults at my family name or the cardboard subs, you will get to feel a bit better about your insignificant existence in AVS.

Ignoring you is too easy. Calling your bluff, your insignificance, and your lack of knowledge, and exposing you out in the public, in case new members who dont know you fall prey to your chest pounding, is much more gratifying....

5 months, 800 posts, childish rhetoric, and a cute little signature, is what you bring to the table.


Hurling insults have you read what you post? You started a complete thread in a DIY forum that has ZERO bearing here! You want to expose someting in a forum where I do not even post(untill you start a thread about it)!!!!

You have issues,serious ones.

Lack of knowledge! What do you know about my knowledge,not much is see. Your club of self adorating fanatics should be exposed while at it.

Gratifying,gratification is to start a thread to smear a DIY forum! WOW you must have indeed a very impressive IQ!

5 months ago yes I figured I join to help some here,and I did.No matter what yor self adoring group may think.

800 posts,and that is none of your concern or business.If the owner of AVS wants me gone,I will go.Not you or any of your self adoring group. Understood?

My sig,yes it does not promote much,and it as I see irritates a few.Each time you see it it twists your inards! Again see a doctor to resolve this. You know what I will even tone my sig down...in a few moments.To calm your TITANIC imploding ego. ;)

With all due respect,

TheEAR

Good call V.X.Donique,

In the big scheme of things no one is right here. I for one can't believe the lack of simple respect and tolerance. No one is perfect on this planet, myself included, and this is just a hobby; nobody's lives hang in the balance here. Threads like this serve no purpose.

Ssabripo;

With all due respect, you can call out Ear as a "fanboy" or for that matter his signature, but starting a thread that is essentially a personal attack on people that don't see things your way IMO is the worst of two evils by far.

Not everyone has the skill or inclination to build their owns subs - and that doesn't make them a lesser class of audiophiles or enthusiasts as your post suggests.

I've been reading both Forums lately and there's equal amounts of "fanboy" speak for one product or another. There's no reason for "We're better-isms"

TheREar :

I do not know who Zissou is, so I don't know where you are going with that other than wishful thinking and a diversion of the facts. Go back and reread truly important part my post. The proof is in the pudding, and your plate is empty my friend. You need to put some substance behind your claims and you might get some respect.

While I don't personally know Ssabripo, I can tell you he is well respected here. We've seen many pictures of his projects and his trip to CES hanging out with industry greats from SVS, TCSounds, JL, ect. His contributions to the forum command respect. What have you brought to the table? Tho I don't post often, I've been here for years not months like yourself. I've seen your kind before.

Dr V

I see your point Doctor.

The fact he was hanging out with the industy greats does not make him one. And you could even show me his mug with the pope or the saints and I could possibly not care less.

The REar how charming Dr Valium..Dr doc...doctor help your friend ssssabripo and prescribe him your world famous Valiums. ;)

I didn't say he was one. I was simply pointing out that pictures are worth a thousand words.

I apologize about the name, it was a typo. E&R are right next to each other.

Dr V

I didn't say he was one. I was simply pointing out that pictures are worth a thousand words.

Dr V

Yes it is in this case he has time on his hands. I hope if one of the industry greats is in Montreal for the Son & Image fest they do not attack me with a 70lbs woofer.

Well at least Deon would not,the JL guys would not .Doubt any known great would. No issues with these classy people,just sssssssabripo who has blown a pressure gauge.

TheRear...LOL. :D

Good call V.X.Donique,

In the big scheme of things no one is right here. I for one can't believe the lack of simple respect and tolerance. No one is perfect on this planet, myself included, and this is just a hobby; nobody's lives hang in the balance here. Threads like this serve no purpose.

Not everyone has the skill or inclination to build their owns subs - and that doesn't make them a lesser class of audiophiles or enthusiasts as your post suggests.

I've been reading both Forums lately and there's equal amounts of "fanboy" speak for one product or another. There's no reason for "We're better-isms"

No one is right about what?

I think all we want (and we don't really want it, or care that much) is for the commercial sub "fanboys" to recognize that DIY gets you more performance for your money. It is really quite simple, and true. If they can't admit that...then where does that leave them?

..doctor help your friend ssssabripo and prescribe him your world famous Valiums
.....just sssssssabripo who has blown a pressure gauge.
blah blah blah...To calm your TITANIC imploding ego.
most excellent contributions to the realm of subwoofer science. ;)

How about an avs celebrity boxing match. :D

The ear vs. ssabipro.... as John Mccarthy would say, let's get it on.

Once again, this could all be solved with a simple picture. But the longer things go the worse it is going to get. I don't get it!

But, oh well, on to bigger and better things. This thread is prerry pointless now. :confused:

No one is right about what?

I think all we want (and we don't really want it, or care that much) is for the commercial sub "fanboys" to recognize that DIY gets you more performance for your money. It is really quite simple, and true. If they can't admit that...then where does that leave them?


Who disputes DIY gives you way more performance for the money? Nobody,do not count me in this.

I say it again DIY offers alot more performance for the money. Where did I say otherwise? Quote me if you can.

As for being a fanboy of commercial product,who is not? Even your world reknown leader ssssabripo is.As I last saw his system only had DIY subs and center channel...maybe a few interconnects. His amp,monitor and other gear are not DIY.

Lets face thye facts here,for those with a garage and work space and time to do the cutting DIY is a major option.I do not have this luxury so I buy my subs.

When has Sab been my leader???






Everyone knows SteveCallas is the leader of the DIY forums :p

Anyways, we don't just put numbers in winisd... most of us spend a lot of time researching and investigating everything we can. We look to the old-time DIY masters that are now building commercial subs. We look at commercial subs and speakers down to the circuitboard. From there we can find out how the commercial guys made the sub and then we come in with our knowledge and research and make a better product.

Serious DIY guys are a lot more into AV than a regular hobbyist.

most excellent contributions to the realm of subwoofer science. ;)


You do not want to start playing this game,you started THIS very thread! With what in mind? Advancing the art of subwoofer design and acoustics? :rolleyes:

Yes you did advance,the art of sinking yourself and losing a few marbles.

With all due respect,


TheEAR

When has Sab been my leader???






Everyone knows SteveCallas is the leader of the DIY forums :p

Anyways, we don't just put numbers in winisd... most of us spend a lot of time researching and investigating everything we can. We look to the old-time DIY masters that are now building commercial subs. We look at commercial subs and speakers down to the circuitboard. From there we can find out how the commercial guys made the sub and then we come in with our knowledge and research and make a better product.

Serious DIY guys are a lot more into AV than a regular hobbyist.

I agree

And my comment about DIY people using only winISD was part of the poking fun gone terribly wrong that made sssabripo blow his pressure gauge.

Who disputes DIY gives you way more performance for the money? Nobody,do not count me in this.

I say it again DIY offers alot more performance for the money. Where did I say otherwise? Quote me if you can.

As for being a fanboy of commercial product,who is not? Even your world reknown leader ssssabripo is.As I last saw his system only had DIY subs and center channel...maybe a few interconnects. His amp,monitor and other gear are not DIY.

Lets face thye facts here,for those with a garage and work space and time to do the cutting DIY is a major option.I do not have this luxury so I buy my subs.

I never pointed anyone out in particular, nor was I implying you. Relax.

And lets face the facts? You're ignoring the folks who have had a cabinet maker build cabinets for them. KG is one such example, and there are others. One doesn't even need the garage with tools in order to build a good product, not in ever situation anyway.

And I put fanboy in quotation marks for a reason. I wasn't being serious about it.

Also, one can't exactly build a monitor. Same goes for HT processors. I know of DIY projectors, but even then, that is relevant to diy-vs-commercial audio. AFAIK, buying a commercail projector still offers better performance.

I never pointed anyone out in particular, nor was I implying you. Relax.

LOL, exactly, everybody needs to chill out.

I never pointed anyone out in particular, nor was I implying you. Relax.


No problem

I forgot the ;) At the end. Not attacking here just pointing I do not put in doubt DIY as offering much higher cost/performance ratio. Only a lunatic would,each commercial product,no matter what product.You pay for the R&D,manufacturing, adds in mags and general media,markups from several sources.All this adds up.

Yes, but I don't think there are many in the sub/speaker section who agree with you, and that is a shame. It really is worse in the speaker section now that I think about it.

No problem

I forgot the ;) At the end. Not attacking here just pointing I do not put in doubt DIY as offering much higher cost/performance ratio. Only a lunatic would,each commercial product,no matter what product.You pay for the R&D,manufacturing, adds in mags and general media,markups from several sources.All this adds up.
good to hear you say this....seriously. This is a much better viewpoint that I've heard you say thus far, and its a good beginning.

As much as a DIYer as I may wanna be, sometimes its not feasible for some reason or another; case in point, after several portions of DIY, and with obligations at home with a family, etc, I had to take a break and not go with the Avalon Eidolon clones, but instead went the commercial route and ended up with the Nautilus 802s. When time permits in the future, I'll probably tackle that project but for now, the B&W commercial offering is more than holding its own.

As Will stated, its good to hear you say this, and it is in stark contrast to the tone that you had since the beggining, so this is a good beginning hopefully. Too bad there are still many in the main speakers and subwoofer forums that still feel the other way, and that's truly the shame in all this.

Nooooo! Bickering over? Just when it was getting interesting.

Kidding.:)

good to hear you say this....seriously. This is a much better viewpoint that I've heard you say thus far, and its a good beginning.

As much as a DIYer as I may wanna be, sometimes its not feasible for some reason or another; case in point, after several portions of DIY, and with obligations at home with a family, etc, I had to take a break and not go with the Avalon Eidolon clones, but instead went the commercial route and ended up with the Nautilus 802s. When time permits in the future, I'll probably tackle that project but for now, the B&W commercial offering is more than holding its own.

As Will stated, its good to hear you say this, and it is in stark contrast to the tone that you had since the beggining, so this is a good beginning hopefully. Too bad there are still many in the main speakers and subwoofer forums that still feel the other way, and that's truly the shame in all this.


ssabripo,

For the record DIY started my interest in audio,DIY can bring performance so far beyond commercial products(price to price)it is not even funny.

I am not on AVS to detract people from DIY,in fact I am a lurker of this very section and DIY forums in general since I got my interenet connection. Audio and subwoofers would be at a near stand still if not for home builders and tweakers who push what is possible at a given price.

And as far as the JL subs go,I give them props for pushing the performance in compact cabinets and finally providing good compact performers.


Hoping we can get back on track

As for the subs I recommend in the commercial section I only will recommend a product based on what I own or what I had at home(as I borrow many audio gear from the place where I buy 70% of my audio gear).As unreal and twiosted as it sound I do have a sub ...fetish! If I said to you people I have over 240 drivers in my various speakers you would scream ...BS.And I would not be surprised one bit. ;) People who visited my place all said one thing...YOU ARE CRAZY SICK.They are correct.

And in closing I had people from various companies I own gear repair(upgrade)the gear at home(amplifiers). They were stunned by the amount of stock. :o

Me I have no real beef againt anyone here.

Well, let's hope everyone got that out of their system. ;)

Now, can we get back to enjoying this hobby? :)

No one is right about what?

I think all we want (and we don't really want it, or care that much) is for the commercial sub "fanboys" to recognize that DIY gets you more performance for your money. It is really quite simple, and true. If they can't admit that...then where does that leave them?

No one is right to start, or continue, flame wars with "personal" attacks. That's just a waste of everyone's time.

I don't get what all the fuss is about anyways, it's pretty obvious that if a person has no intent whatsoever to build a sub that they couldn't give a rat's pitoutie about the value of them. It's just as easy to say DIY'ers are flameboys as well - I don't how many commercial sub threads I've read that some DIY guy didn't pipe in with their two cents worth - not many. ;)

Personally when it comes time to move my HT and I can't have my IB anymore I'm leaning towards a couple or three DIY subs - but you now what - I might decide I'd rather spend my spare time golfing and go out and buy some. :D

I don't how many commercial sub threads I've read that some DIY guy didn't pipe in with their two cents worth - not many.

Really? I don't know which forum you are reading, because the majority of those on AVS do not have a DIY guy posting in them.

Really? I don't know which forum you are reading, because the majority of those on AVS do not have a DIY guy posting in them.

Quite a few since I started reading them recently. But I'm not after an argument, I'm lobbying for peace. :)_Y

Forgive me guys, but I don't understand why there is a mutually exclusive designation here. :confused:

I own commercial subs and have gone DIY. :o

I enjoy subs period. :)

Quite a few since I started reading them recently. But I'm not after an argument, I'm lobbying for peace. :)_Y

Hell, you posted in one yourself just recently, where DIY was never mentioned.

I am just saying that you have it backwards....usually the DIY folks don't go crazy in the subwoofer forum recommending DIY. Yes, it happens, but it is not the norm.

All the poison out of the system.

I was browsing TC Sounds website and few things hit me the TC-5200 and LMS-5400 are sold out,as in out of stock. As well as the 15 and 18 inch PRs.

Hoping TC Sounds is doing well,as seriously TheBEAST not making an antry I will be forced to buy a few of the big bore TC Sound super woofers and PRs and build my own.

Only drawback outboard amp,this being a big plus too as what may go south is out of the box,massive magnetic field and...vibration.

TC-sounds is doing very well ;)

All the poison out of the system.

I was browsing TC Sounds website and few things hit me the TC-5200 and LMS-5400 are sold out,as in out of stock. As well as the 15 and 18 inch PRs.

Hoping TC Sounds is doing well,as seriously TheBEAST not making an antry I will be forced to buy a few of the big bore TC Sound super woofers and PRs and build my own.

Only drawback outboard amp,this being a big plus too as what may go south is out of the box,massive magnetic field and...vibration.

With the cash of one TC LMS beast you can get several 18" drivers and make an array with woofers and get better performance than a single 5200.

But if you really have the need for a super-tiny box, go with it, so far it is the king for small volume enclosures. ;)

its not just that though.....

what amuses me is fuktards ranting and raving about 30subs they owe, and that makes them "knowledgeable" in their idiotic minds.....and then they go on a rampage on the aforementioned comments.

just fuking comical! :rolleyes:

The ear doesn't just magically get the subwoofers you know. Some people work hard for their money and the $10k they spend they feel is money well spent, thus giving them more epxerience and the ease of criticism. The Ear is only stating the obvious in the name brand of subwoofers. That's just my opinion though. :)

Hell, you posted in one yourself just recently, where DIY was never mentioned.

I am just saying that you have it backwards....usually the DIY folks don't go crazy in the subwoofer forum recommending DIY. Yes, it happens, but it is not the norm.


Well maybe I do have it backwards - I've only been been scouring the sub forums for couple weeks since I lost my battle with the city - it could easily be a misconception on my part. But that shouldn't deflect my point which is I'm really tired of the personal attacks, condescension and general lack of respect that rears its ugly head much too often now when people disagree, and it's happening in so many forums on so many topics.

Maybe I need a thicker skin..... :rolleyes:

Yeah, I agree.

However, I still support good discussion, and if those attacks, condescension, and lack of respect must come with the good, then I'll take it.

People

I think the sour grapes where dumped and we can move on.

Ok, that being said, I'd be interested if TheEar did whip something up with TC-sounds drivers. It would be nice to hear some of your subjective opinions etc..

AWWWWWW!

Please don't tell me the exchanges are nearly over...

I so much enjoy the Moe, Larry, Curley slaps jabs and kicks. If you guys end this now, I'll end up having to go back and watch Oprah.

I learned to detest commercial subs when the guys at the audio store I worked at would fall all over the B&W ssubs. I felt sorry for them, in that, thats all they had.I would talk about building subs and designing subs and would get the brush off....I was working in an audio store (no wonder they looked at me funny).....I was suppose to be selling store subwoofers.

My $.02

KG

Yeah! I am glad that is all finally over. :D

I am looking at ordering a TC-5200 15" woofer to build a compact sealed sub and get a Crown K2. Very tempting and the price is right on the woofers. Plus with a Home Depot two minutes of walk from my place,almost across the street how can I go wrong...time to build one.I have two Velo SMS units so one could be used for this project.

All I need to get is a router and bits, all else I have.Would be interesting to pit a project like this against the Fathom f113. Seriously considering this.

I am looking at ordering a TC-5200 15" woofer to build a compact sealed sub and get a Crown K2. Very tempting and the price is right on the woofers. Plus with a Home Depot two minutes of walk from my place,almost across the street how can I go wrong...time to build one.I have two Velo SMS units so one could be used for this project.

All I need to get is a router and bits, all else I have.Would be interesting to pit a project like this against the Fathom f113. Seriously considering this.
I would invest the money on the LMS5400 instead....the TC5200 is meant more for a high output car implementation, although it will also work with a home sub if done right.

an LMS5400, in a small sealed, with a crown K2 and a DCX2496 or DEQ2496 or Marchand Bassis, and watch how quickly you will change your tune on the Fathom ;)

Meh, a used CE4000 would be a better choice IMO.

Meh, a used CE4000 would be a better choice IMO.
the what?

Crown CE4000. It is discontinued, but can be found for a decent price used. It has PFC and tests better at 20Hz than the K2.

Crown CE4000. It is discontinued, but can be found for a decent price used. It has PFC and tests better at 20Hz than the K2.
ah....i thought for a sec you were making up some mystical driver or something :p

the amp is inconsequential and yes, there are plenty of options. K2, CE, XTi4000, ICE, etc, etc,

the main thing is to go LMS5400 instead of the 5200. Hell, if he can wait, a 4100neo may fit the bill too. The 5400 however will be available now and will just about kill the 13w7.

with theEar's "enthusiasm" once he gets one completed, we may see 1/2 the regular forum go DIY :D

ah....i thought for a sec you were making up some mystical driver or something :p

the amp is inconsequential and yes, there are plenty of options. K2, CE, XTi4000, ICE, etc, etc,

the main thing is to go LMS5400 instead of the 5200. Hell, if he can wait, a 4100neo may fit the bill too. The 5400 however will be available now and will just about kill the 13w7.

with theEar's "enthusiasm" once he gets one completed, we may see 1/2 the regular forum go DIY :D

Well the urge is in full effect,Saturday I plan on buying a nice plunge router and bits. Next drawings for my sealed cabinets,someting good looking. I have an air brush and may finish the boxes in metallic automotive blue.

As I have painted over sixty bodies for RC cars/trucks,I have some descent experience with applying coats of paint and finishing. Should be a fun to say the least.

I decided to start with a TC-5200. I know it does not match the LMS-5400 but is a great start in DIY.Crown K2 it will be as I can get two for a very good price locally.

As a side project I have a few ideas and will build a few small cabinets for the Sunfire D8 and D12 subs.Something well finished,in place of the fake blask ash finish on these.Simple boxes,only walls with double the thickness of the originals and a little deep to retain internal volume.


here are the subs that would welcome relocating to new cabinets and would be a great practice.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1761/p1030456sb4.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030456sb4.jpg)

Here is the original triple stack that started the sub craze,I use these three as MBM's. ;) Punch galore in a 800cu ft room.
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/86/p10301151wa.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10301151wa.jpg)

Not I! Going straight to DIY! :D

I'm so damn cheap I can never buy stuff commercially that I can figure out myself. Hell, I started to build my own computer from scrap parts in 7th grade. Guess that's why I'm gonna be an electrcial engineer :cool:

I'm a big fan of DIY, been building my own computers since 7th grade as well. You could say I have the genes/family for it... skill with the hands and a sharp mind runs in the family. Being at college means I don't have the time, access to materials, or long-periods of uninterruptedness required to make a DIY speaker or sub... but after seeing some of the finished products of the DIY guys I'm sold and want to make some DIY speakers and a DIY sub one day. :D

Once again, this could all be solved with a simple picture. But the longer things go the worse it is going to get. I don't get it!

But, oh well, on to bigger and better things. This thread is prerry pointless now. :confused:

If TheEAR posted a picture, I'd believe he had 30 subs. His excuses are the reason I don't believe him. They're just LAME. :p

Ya, If you are going to plunck down the cash, go with the 5400 instead of the 5200. There is not much savings to be had, but significantly more performance.

I'm a big fan of DIY, been building my own computers since 7th grade as well. You could say I have the genes/family for it... skill with the hands and a sharp mind runs in the family. Being at college means I don't have the time, access to materials, or long-periods of uninterruptedness required to make a DIY speaker or sub... but after seeing some of the finished products of the DIY guys I'm sold and want to make some DIY speakers and a DIY sub one day. :D
so you are a PC DIYer, eh? :p

well, no real PC builder can be considered a true DIYer unless you are OCing ;) .... and none of that pansy 10% performance increase. I'm talking near 100% OCing, making it to top national 20 list, etc:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029681698&postcount=1

under e6300 core2duo, right around number 20....although I was 10 just about 5 months ago:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7651/6300sumbj5.png

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/misc_stuff/stable_OC_3.jpg

:D

LOL..... look on the chart...

I work with DNottis.... he owns 3dxtreme.org he's still trying to beat Kyle from Hardocp

Sherv the OCer, eh?

I know that Rob used to (or still does) and I have been OCing for years now. Started out with my lowly Slot-A Athlon that I took from 750 to ~900 or 950 using a goldfinger device. I now only have a 1700+ OCed from 1.447GHz to ~2.01GHz.

If it wasn't for my obsession with audio, my computer would have been upgraded by now (or a new one built). It needs them badly...cause I still like to game. I figure I'll just build a new one when good DX10 cards can be had for ~250 or less. I am still running a 9700Pro which has served me well...

Sherv the OCer, eh?
that's right homie... ;) a man of different talents............humbly speaking of course :p

although, I'm a bit pissed that I dropped from top10 to 20 :mad: Maybe I should stop messing with the towers for a weekend, and get some watercooling and get back into it. Although, if I do, I prolly just drop the e6300 and go quadcore. First things first though, I gotta migrate from RAID1 to RAID5, and that's gonna be a biatch

Hey ssabripo,

When you do raid5 check this out these are my systems: ;)

15k scsi on LSI 64bit/133mhz

http://www.relsyscon.com/projects.htm

Regards,
Jose

Hey ssabripo,

When you do raid5 check this out these are my systems: ;)

15k scsi on LSI 64bit/133mhz

http://www.relsyscon.com/projects.htm

Regards,
Jose
dude...is that your website or just one of the projects you worked for? gaddam, I freaking LOVE those tyler acoustics mains!!! I heard them 2 years ago and was in love with them. :cool:


I aint doing all that external RAID controller crap man....this is just for my home use. I'm gonna use the onboard Mobo RAID controller. Basically, I bought a 3rd SATA drive, so instead of having 2 in RAID1 and a 3rd by itself, I'm gonna back up the RAID1 using Ghost or something, then create a RAID5 using all 3 SATA drives, and then put the backup back on there. I just gotta figure out what's the best way to back my current volume, and the easiest way to recover the backup image. :o

http://www.relsyscon.com/projects.htm


Well, now that we all know that Jose has the internet mirrored to his house....

That's my website/company..

I'm a software developer.

Those 2 raid5 systems w/ 15K Fuj. scsi hd's scream.....

PS. They pretty loud also. :)

You see the workstation, that's my personal workstation. 8800GTS and 15k scsi w/ a couple of 150g raptors.

When I get my 18" LMS I'll build a sub to match the tyler acoustic speakers. black base w/ ribbon mahogany veneer, that's the plan.

Regards,
Jose

That's my website/company..

I'm a software developer.

Those 2 raid5 systems w/ 15K Fuj. scsi hd's scream.....

PS. They pretty loud also. :)

You see the workstation, that's my personal workstation. 8800GTS and 15k scsi w/ a couple of 150g raptors.
http://www.lolimacyb.org/upload/files/1/GIFs/vault%20fault.gif

When I get my 18" LMS I'll build a sub to match the tyler acoustic speakers. black base w/ ribbon mahogany veneer, that's the plan.

now we are talking!

http://66.7.202.25/%7Ecpyproip/Pictures/1Al%20agrees.gif

Lol, last I checked you guys were trading shots, now theEAR is ready to build a DIY sealed sub - that's what I call progress :D In 6 months he will be ready to build a LLT ;)

I'm going to strongly second using the LMS 5400 18 over the TC 5200 18 as well - since you are going sealed, the price difference between drivers is almost negligible, as cost of electronics for the project will be pretty high. Based on TC's claims, difference in performance would not be negligible. Also, compared to sealed commercial subs, you'll still be savinga considerable amount of change.

Ya, just when you think you had seen/heard it all. :p

I think the JL F113 will be sold soon. ;) We may have made Ear a new believer. :D

I think the JL F113 will be sold soon. ;) We may have made Ear a new believer. :D

Now that would be something! You never know though...If he has a highly successful build and resulting thread, he may just start unloading some! :eek:

He wont build anything. He just wants people to think highly of him.

-Eli

who knows, i'm always up for surprises;)

so you are a PC DIYer, eh? :p

well, no real PC builder can be considered a true DIYer unless you are OCing ;) .... and none of that pansy 10% performance increase. I'm talking near 100% OCing, making it to top national 20 list, etc:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029681698&postcount=1

under e6300 core2duo, right around number 20....although I was 10 just about 5 months ago:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7651/6300sumbj5.png

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/misc_stuff/stable_OC_3.jpg

:D

Is that all you got? Look at one of my CPU's. No# 2 on xtremesystems.org :)...

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=140278

I think the JL F113 will be sold soon. ;) We may have made Ear a new believer. :D

LOL, I was ready to plunk down the mulla for 2 JL's with all the hype the Ear is giving them :) . But man i heard a Sonotube DIY sub iwth the TC driver and a QSC and whoa moma...........

He wont build anything. He just wants people to think highly of him.

-Eli

:rolleyes: Think,what you want.You can even start a thread and claim its bogus!

Ordering the TC-5200 .

I'm sensing a direct correlation between DIY bass heads and PC Over clockers.

Both activities being very similar, dealing directly with extreme conditions in each hobby.

Is that all you got? Look at one of my CPU's. No# 2 on xtremesystems.org :)...

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=140278
lucky bastad'! :p

What can I say, I gotta crappy week of e6300. But nonetheless, congrats! very nice OC indeed! ;)

ps- make sure you come down the the JL audio facility field trip, friday the 20th. Look at the sticky in the regular sub forum.

Intel's Core 2 Duo CPU's overclock like nothing else,on a bad day a 6400 becomes a 3.4GHz CPU on air. I have to switch to the Core 2 Duo,chugging along with a Athlon64 X2 4800 /ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe/ ATI 1900XTX and 1900 CrossFire/ 2GB DDR Corsair Twin-X PC 3700 CAS2 does the job.

I have seen out of the box 6300's become Core 2 Duo Extreme killers. With heavy duty chilling these can reach and surpass 4GHz! Sick, Intel has driven AMD into the ground with the Core 2 Duo CPU's.

Intel's Core 2 Duo CPU's overclock like nothing else,on a bad day a 6400 becomes a 3.4GHz CPU on air. I have to switch to the Core 2 Duo,chugging along with a Athlon64 X2 4800 /ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe/ ATI 1900XTX and 1900 CrossFire/ 2GB DDR Corsair Twin-X PC 3700 CAS2 does the job.

I have seen out of the box 6300's become Core 2 Duo Extreme killers. With heavy duty chilling these can reach and surpass 4GHz! Sick, Intel has driven AMD into the ground with the Core 2 Duo CPU's.Mine is running over 4 gig on air :) 24/7. This cpu is Awesome. I got 3 of the same batches and they kick arse. I also have an E6600 "B" batch that easily goes over 4 gig. That is an addicting hobby on its own. I took a step back from it. I collected too much stuff, lets just say i have enough to build 4 more pc's which each running raid :) .


On another note, man i remember reading all of your posts in the Klpisch forum. It is a pleasure to see you here posting.

I remember occing a 1.4ghz pentium4 into 3.0ghz with air-cooling.

I really need to upgrade my PC.... so off-topic!

Ordering the TC-5200
Can I ask what your motivation is? Far be it for me to think lightly of one's financial situations, but in the grand scheme of the total cost of this project, is an extra $200 gonna make or break it? The LMS 5400 would seem to be a substantial performance improvement.

I'm sensing a direct correlation between DIY bass heads and PC Over clockers.
No "PC overclocking" here.......that stuff is for nerds.

No "PC overclocking" here.......that stuff is for nerds.

Yes because DIY sub guys aren't nerds. We just happen to memorize white papers and know what the Fletcher-Munson Equal Loudness Curve is..... :p

Passion for enjoying great audio isn't nerdy. Passion for extracting some additional computing power....

http://www.gcms.k12.il.us/gcmsms/images/misc/Mr.%20Richoz%20and%20nerds.jpg

http://www.horrordvds.com/reviews/misc/pictures/nerds.jpg

NERDS!!!!!!

http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/nerd.JPG

OMG.... i was just editing mine.....

great minds think alike :D

http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/mmm_images/CustomerMirror.gif
says the single guy in his late 20's living in an apt with a huge sonosub, and has 5600 posts!!!!! ROFL!! :p now who exactly is the nerd? :D

lol @ Steve calling other folks nerds.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

Passion for enjoying great audio isn't nerdy. Passion for extracting some additional computing power....


5,600 posts man. You need to step back from your computer and go out once in a while :p ....


BTW Did we offend you because you are still running a Celery :) ?

At least the title of this thread starts with "Offtopic:..." :confused:

At this point I am not even sure there ever was a topic. :D

At least the title of this thread starts with "Offtopic:..." :confused:

At this point I am not even sure there ever was a topic. :D

It all started with the rampant fanboyism of the F113...

We have come to the general conclusion that it is a great subwoofer, has really neat electronics, is too pricey for anybody willing to DIY, can be easily bested by a much cheaper DIY, the people that buy it are too lazy to DIY, don't have the time tools or skills to DIY, or can't put a giant sub in the room because wifey has their nuts in a vise.

Oh, and overclockers are nerds.

It all started with the rampant fanboyism of the F113...

We have come to the general conclusion that it is a great subwoofer, has really neat electronics, is too pricey for anybody willing to DIY, can be easily bested by a much cheaper DIY, the people that buy it are too lazy to DIY or can't put a giant sub in the room because wifey has their nuts in a vise.

Oh, and overclockers are nerds.

LMAO :p :p .

Up until now I have read this thread with a certain amount of amusement. However, I am offended by your "lazy" remark Mr. Crackyflipside. As a pulmonary/critical care doctor putting in about 70-75 hrs a week,while trying to be a good husband, father and grandfather, you can take your "lazy" and shove it!! I do alot of things and some of them even pretty well, but I am not a handy man. DIY is not something I am good at. I think most folks on the Sub section are not good at DIY either. I am glad for those of you on this forum. I think what you are able to do gives you great pleasure. I can't argue that you can build a better sub than I can buy. Now lets talk about nuts. It took me three wives, but this one is very reasonable with my HT wants and need. She handles my nuts very well and hasn't used a vice yet. I have had several subs, NHT, HSU SVS and, yeah, I have a pair of F113s now. I like'um. So what!! You guys who can DIY enjoy yourselves. Make fun of each other all you want. Hell make fun of me!! But, don't make a general statement that we are lazy or have our balls in a vice, because #1 I'm not and #2 they aren't.


Gene

Up until now I have read this thread with a certain amount of amusement. However, I am offended by your "lazy" remark Mr. Crackyflipside. As a pulmonary/critical care doctor putting in about 70-75 hrs a week,while trying to be a good husband, father and grandfather, you can take your "lazy" and shove it!! I do alot of things and some of them even pretty well, but I am not a handy man. DIY is not something I am good at. I think most folks on the Sub section are not good at DIY either. I am glad for those of you on this forum. I think what you are able to do gives you great pleasure. I can't argue that you can build a better sub than I can buy. Now lets talk about nuts. It took me three wives, but this one is very reasonable with my HT wants and need. She handles my nuts very well and hasn't used a vice yet. I have had several subs, NHT, HSU SVS and, yeah, I have a pair of F113s now. I like'um. So what!! You guys who can DIY enjoy yourselves. Make fun of each other all you want. Hell make fun of me!! But, don't make a general statement that we are lazy or have our balls in a vice, because #1 I'm not and #2 they aren't.


Gene

I forgot to add do not have the time to DIY, sorry about that! :o

I wasn't trying to offend anybody, the post was mostly sarcasm. Anyways, I refuse to argue on internet forums, but I do agree, the F113 is a great sub.

Up until now I have read this thread with a certain amount of amusement. However, I am offended by your "lazy" remark Mr. Crackyflipside. As a pulmonary/critical care doctor putting in about 70-75 hrs a week,while trying to be a good husband, father and grandfather, you can take your "lazy" and shove it!! I do alot of things and some of them even pretty well, but I am not a handy man. DIY is not something I am good at. I think most folks on the Sub section are not good at DIY either. I am glad for those of you on this forum. I think what you are able to do gives you great pleasure. I can't argue that you can build a better sub than I can buy. Now lets talk about nuts. It took me three wives, but this one is very reasonable with my HT wants and need. She handles my nuts very well and hasn't used a vice yet. I have had several subs, NHT, HSU SVS and, yeah, I have a pair of F113s now. I like'um. So what!! You guys who can DIY enjoy yourselves. Make fun of each other all you want. Hell make fun of me!! But, don't make a general statement that we are lazy or have our balls in a vice, because #1 I'm not and #2 they aren't.


Gene

And I can vuoge for Gene. He is a stand up guy.

Oh, and OCing is for nerds. It was cool when I was like 16. ;) :p

-Eli

Thanks for the addendum cracky, I accept that!!


Gene

Can I ask what your motivation is? Far be it for me to think lightly of one's financial situations, but in the grand scheme of the total cost of this project, is an extra $200 gonna make or break it? The LMS 5400 would seem to be a substantial performance improvement.


No "PC overclocking" here.......that stuff is for nerds.

Well the reason may be dumb to some and funny to others and be both!

I want to have both the TC-5200 and LMS-5400,I like to own various drivers from each company(like with subs),I will buy four to five Sunfire subs,multiple JL's,multiple Klipsch...and so forth(not one of the same size or model).Only ...ONLY exception being the f113.I was simply to awed by what these smallish Fathoms can produce.

In this case the TC-5200 is no whimp as far as very high performance drivers go and I am getting the LMS-5400 also. Why not build a "lesser" DIY sub that will still trounce most commercial subs? And after go all the way ...by way of the LMS-5400.

Not at all question of funds here.

No other explanation,I emailed TCSounds sales for quotes(with shipping to Canada).I will place my order tomorrow if they repply this fast. And I would not be telling you people this if I had no desire buying these woofers and putting them to good use.A woofer with no proper box and amp is pretty much an expensive and
heavy paper weight.



DIY is popular with two groups of people ...sub builders and ter-ror-ists! LOL Each wants more BANG for the buck. :p

It all started with the rampant fanboyism of the F113...

We have come to the general conclusion that it is a great subwoofer, has really neat electronics, is too pricey for anybody willing to DIY, can be easily bested by a much cheaper DIY, the people that buy it are too lazy to DIY, don't have the time tools or skills to DIY, or can't put a giant sub in the room because wifey has their nuts in a vise.

Oh, and overclockers are nerds.

Thanks for the summary cracky!

It all started with the rampant fanboyism of the F113...

We have come to the general conclusion that it is a great subwoofer, has really neat electronics, is too pricey for anybody willing to DIY, can be easily bested by a much cheaper DIY, the people that buy it are too lazy to DIY, don't have the time tools or skills to DIY, or can't put a giant sub in the room because wifey has their nuts in a vise.

Oh, and overclockers are nerds.

I am guilty ,as I am in the Fathom fanclub fanboy numero uno.

Expensive...nah only for those who do not make enough dough or are scratching pennies too much. ;)

Easily bested,not so easy in the same size.And include all the f113 has on board in the box lets see how cheap it gets. Plus the labour...well time is money.

The people who buy the Fathom subs are not worried too much about $3000 breaking the bank.Like it or not it is the case.

The ugly armchair war of words(hurling manure back and forth)has opened my ears. :p DIY,a must as it can get me further for less.

My username suggests im an Ex-overclocker...guess that makes me an Ex-nerd as well :p

Anyway...me thinks the Fathom is not so hard to beat in DIY with a similar size enclosure and the right Driver, amp/EQ. Yes, the amp will be separate as will the EQ but...yeah never mind.

since the 5400 is not available ...

will the W7 13" JL Audio drivers be good for DIY sub home use?

I'd wait for the 5400 to become available....but yeah, the regular W7 JL is good for home use. There are at least a couple of projects on here, and the builders like them.

says the single guy in his late 20's living in an apt with a huge sonosub, and has 5600 posts!!!!! ROFL!! now who exactly is the nerd?
24 and single means I'm very smart - getting married this young would be a big mistake in my opinion. 5600 posts because you gotta do something while you're at work sitting behind a computer.

You'll ask how can you judge one's passions as being nerdy or not - well it's pretty easy, even in today's politically correct society :D Take my passion for lifting weights, proper diet, cardio, and sleep - that keeps me in great physical shape and has many benefits. Take the passion for great audio and more specifically great bass - it enhances the music and movie experience greatly, and whenever others experience it, they all comment on how they want it. Now take the passion for overclocking a computer to extract additional computing power - ermmm, yeah :o Not really on a level playing field. And besides, I'd flex both you and Willd with one hand behind my back no problem.

Steve - I don't think any of us have a problem with you calling us nerds, because I will be the the first to admit I am a nerd. I embrace it.

You, on the other hand, need to look in the mirror.

And FWIW, I don't condemn you for being single at your age. God knows with the sh!t I have seen, I am in zero hurry to get married. Jesus...

Hey, I am 21 and practically already hitched... Guess I lucked out...because I see the same kind of sh!t you've seen Will... but I don't settle for that ;)

anybody know how much JL sells the W7 13's?

Getting married is about kids....period. Get married and enjoy children, thats what it's all about. Being a Dad is probably the most rewarding effort I have put forth in this life. You're all just grooming yourself for the inevitable, embrace it and move on........................

Getting married is about kids....period. Get married and enjoy children, thats what it's all about. Being a Dad is probably the most rewarding effort I have put forth in this life. You're all just grooming yourself for the inevitable, embrace it and move on........................

I disagree. We've been molded, trained, brainwashed since birth to THINK that when we grow, we MUST get married and have kids. What about being married to someone for the reason you WANT to be together and not look at the lady as just a baby machine? Kids are an option, not a REQUIREMENT. I can't stand parents judging other married couples who don't have kids as selfish. HOW? If a couple are willing to give up many "single" freedoms for being together, how is that selfish? Just as a married couple judging another couple not having kids is wrong, I have the same right to say having kids is wrong. Get the point? Why do you (plural) have kids? Do you do it because YOU want to, or society EXPECTS it. Family from both sides, friends, co-workers and anybody else are EXPECTING! Do you give in to pressure, or you sincerely desire to have kids. IOW, have kids because YOU want to and nothing and no one else.

OK, I had to vent and I'd like to back the subject of POM POMS. :rolleyes:

http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/mmm_images/CustomerMirror.gif
says the single guy in his late 20's living in an apt with a huge sonosub, and has 5600 posts!!!!! ROFL!! :p now who exactly is the nerd? :D

Sherv, I'm on the floor cracking up! HAHAHAHA!!! :D

Getting married is not about having kids. It is about a life time commitment to each other. It means each party is willing to bring 100% to the table.

Having children is (traditionally, and IMO supposed to be) an extension of the marriage. The man and woman want to take that commitment and apply it to rearing children.

Both marriage and children require a selfless attitude about one's spouse and children. Once a person is willing to put one's spouse and children ahead of his/her own selfish needs and wants, it changes that person.

I cannot imagine my world without my wife and children. My wife is a full time homemaker, who gave up a succesful career as an attorney for something more important. That was selfless.

I handle everything financial for my wife and children, and I am pretty sure she appreciates it. There has never, in our 18 years, been a time when either of us resented the other for our respective roles regarding what we being to the relationship, meaning I never have felt she was lacking because she did not bring in a paycheck, and she never gives me a hint of guilt over the fact that she handles 98% of the household chores.

Ok ... soapbox done. :)

24 and single means I'm very smart - getting married this young would be a big mistake in my opinion. 5600 posts because you gotta do something while you're at work sitting behind a computer.

You'll ask how can you judge one's passions as being nerdy or not - well it's pretty easy, even in today's politically correct society :D Take my passion for lifting weights, proper diet, cardio, and sleep - that keeps me in great physical shape and has many benefits. Take the passion for great audio and more specifically great bass - it enhances the music and movie experience greatly, and whenever others experience it, they all comment on how they want it. Now take the passion for overclocking a computer to extract additional computing power - ermmm, yeah :o Not really on a level playing field. And besides, I'd flex both you and Willd with one hand behind my back no problem.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! I can't take it anymore! :D :D :D
Will, Sherv, be Steve's best friends, hook him up with a girl, gets him married, developes a beer belly, and can no longer beat you up! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Steve, just busting chops. ;)

Getting married is not about having kids. It is about a life time commitment to each other. It means each party is willing to bring 100% to the table.

Having children is (traditionally, and IMO supposed to be) an extension of the marriage. The man and woman want to take that commitment and apply it to rearing children.

Both marriage and children require a selfless attitude about one's spouse and children. Once a person is willing to put one's spouse and children ahead of his/her own selfish needs and wants, it changes that person.

I cannot imagine my world without my wife and children. My wife is a full time homemaker, who gave up a succesful career as an attorney for something more important. That was selfless.

I handle everything financial for my wife and children, and I am pretty sure she appreciates it. There has never, in our 18 years, been a time when either of us resented the other for our respective roles regarding what we being to the relationship, meaning I never have felt she was lacking because she did not bring in a paycheck, and she never gives me a hint of guilt over the fact that she handles 98% of the household chores.

Ok ... soapbox done. :)


100% agreed!

24 and single means I'm very smart - getting married this young would be a big mistake in my opinion. 5600 posts because you gotta do something while you're at work sitting behind a computer.
you are right, you have to do something at work while sitting behind a computer....you know, like WORK!

You'll ask how can you judge one's passions as being nerdy or not - well it's pretty easy, even in today's politically correct society :D Take my passion for lifting weights, proper diet, cardio, and sleep - that keeps me in great physical shape and has many benefits. Take the passion for great audio and more specifically great bass - it enhances the music and movie experience greatly, and whenever others experience it, they all comment on how they want it. Now take the passion for overclocking a computer to extract additional computing power - ermmm, yeah :o Not really on a level playing field.
you almost had it 100%, but I'll give you a B+ for effort. There is also a part of DIY that has to do with getting the most performance for the money....I'm sure I've heard you say that once before. ;) Just like you wouldn't pay $6000 for a pair of fathoms because you know damn well our sonotubes will rip it a new one with less than half that cost, part of that is passion and part of that is max performance.

Ditto on Computers. Why on earth would I pay Alienware or anyone $3000 for a computer, when for a little just over $1000 I can have a PC that will outperform it and have better internal parts (motherboard, RAM, etc)? Yes my friend, that's right: max performance for the dollar. While your average joe is spending $3000 to get a PC capable of Playing Oblivion or doing hardcore video editing, I'm laughing with my $1000 e6300 at 3.4ghz which outdoes them, and spending the other $2000 in something I REALLY have a passion for: Home Audio! ;)

And besides, I'd flex both you and Willd with one hand behind my back no problem.
you and which army?!! ROFLMAO!!!!! Stevie, you couldn't flex me, even if I helped you!

I'm only 5'11'', 169lbs.........but benching 285lb, athletic (varsity soccer, ACC, Gatech), and having an amateur boxing background in Honduras has its perks!!! ;)
Not bad for an old fart with 2 kids aint it? :p

Getting married is not about having kids. It is about a life time commitment to each other. It means each party is willing to bring 100% to the table.

Having children is (traditionally, and IMO supposed to be) an extension of the marriage. The man and woman want to take that commitment and apply it to rearing children.

Both marriage and children require a selfless attitude about one's spouse and children. Once a person is willing to put one's spouse and children ahead of his/her own selfish needs and wants, it changes that person.

I cannot imagine my world without my wife and children. My wife is a full time homemaker, who gave up a succesful career as an attorney for something more important. That was selfless.

I handle everything financial for my wife and children, and I am pretty sure she appreciates it. There has never, in our 18 years, been a time when either of us resented the other for our respective roles regarding what we being to the relationship, meaning I never have felt she was lacking because she did not bring in a paycheck, and she never gives me a hint of guilt over the fact that she handles 98% of the household chores.

Ok ... soapbox done. :)
Preach on Craig....preach on!! :D

http://www.charitybaptist.org/Our%20Church/Page%20Pictures/Camp%20meeting%20Congregation.JPG

This has got to be one of the best threads ever, hahaha! :D You guys are nuts!

you and which army?!! ROFLMAO!!!!! Stevie, you couldn't flex me, even if I helped you!

I'm only 5'11'', 169lbs.........but benching 285lb, athletic (varsity soccer, ACC, Gatech), and having an amateur boxing background in Honduras has its perks!!! ;)
Not bad for an old fart with 2 kids aint it? :p
IMO we need to see Steve's pic too... :D

Sherv - Your last two posts were priceless ... :D

IMO we need to see Steve's pic too... :D
I bet:










http://ashleykathbilsky.com/db1/00057/ashleykathbilsky.com/_uimages/gerard-butler-300-3.jpg

OMG Sherv, I'm NEVER messing with you! :eek:

OMG Sherv, I'm NEVER messing with you! :eek:
dude...i'm harmless. Ask Chuck.

I'm a lover, not a fighter :p

My dad can beat up your dad. :p

http://ants.planet.ee/opendir/internet%20-%20serious%20business%20framed.jpg

I bet:










http://ashleykathbilsky.com/db1/00057/ashleykathbilsky.com/_uimages/gerard-butler-300-3.jpg

Steve pumping up his Sono army against the invading Compactsubs.

dude...i'm harmless. Ask Chuck.

I'm a lover, not a fighter :p

Yeah right. Reverse psyc doesn't work with me bro. ;)

Man, I stepped away and came back!!? I didn't think this thread could get any weirder or further away from all things subwoofers, but you guys pulled it off. :D

it's all fun and games....this is how we roll here in DIY land. None of that "my svs is better than you hsu" crap. We tend to go a bit more......shall we say........macho:

"my schwartz is bigger than yours"http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/60/Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg/325px-Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg

it's all fun and games....this is how we roll here in DIY land. None of that "my svs is better than you hsu" crap. We tend to go a bit more......shall we say........macho:



Yes, and thank god for that. :)

No DIYer has ever and will ever build anything better than a JL113. :D

Sorry! I could not resist it!

Getting married is not about having kids. It is about a life time commitment to each other. It means each party is willing to bring 100% to the table.

Having children is (traditionally, and IMO supposed to be) an extension of the marriage. The man and woman want to take that commitment and apply it to rearing children.

Both marriage and children require a selfless attitude about one's spouse and children. Once a person is willing to put one's spouse and children ahead of his/her own selfish needs and wants, it changes that person.

I cannot imagine my world without my wife and children. My wife is a full time homemaker, who gave up a succesful career as an attorney for something more important. That was selfless.

I handle everything financial for my wife and children, and I am pretty sure she appreciates it. There has never, in our 18 years, been a time when either of us resented the other for our respective roles regarding what we being to the relationship, meaning I never have felt she was lacking because she did not bring in a paycheck, and she never gives me a hint of guilt over the fact that she handles 98% of the household chores.

Ok ... soapbox done. :)
Amen, brother. As long as you know what you're getting into and are willing to make the sacrifices (and you've found someone else who is, too), marriage is the greatest thing in the world. I'd give up killer audio, fast computers, and a long list of other things before I gave up my wife and kids.

"And now you know that evil will always triumph....because good is dumb."http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/60/Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg/325px-Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg

This thread rules.

-Eli

...I'd give up killer audio, fast computers, and a long list of other things before I gave up my wife and kids.
if it wasn't for depreciating assets, I swear...... aint it a bitch?! :D

Amen, brother. As long as you know what you're getting into and are willing to make the sacrifices (and you've found someone else who is, too), marriage is the greatest thing in the world. I'd give up killer audio, fast computers, and a long list of other things before I gave up my wife and kids.

I agree with this completely.

-Eli

Let's now discuss the mating habits of the three-toed sloth. :D

OMG Sherv, I'm NEVER messing with you! :eek:

Chicken

KFC with that?

From DIY hero to overclocker hero...to sports legend! Damn I better run... :eek:

Getting married is not about having kids. It is about a life time commitment to each other. It means each party is willing to bring 100% to the table.

Having children is (traditionally, and IMO supposed to be) an extension of the marriage. The man and woman want to take that commitment and apply it to rearing children.

Both marriage and children require a selfless attitude about one's spouse and children. Once a person is willing to put one's spouse and children ahead of his/her own selfish needs and wants, it changes that person.

I cannot imagine my world without my wife and children. My wife is a full time homemaker, who gave up a succesful career as an attorney for something more important. That was selfless.

I handle everything financial for my wife and children, and I am pretty sure she appreciates it. There has never, in our 18 years, been a time when either of us resented the other for our respective roles regarding what we being to the relationship, meaning I never have felt she was lacking because she did not bring in a paycheck, and she never gives me a hint of guilt over the fact that she handles 98% of the household chores.

Ok ... soapbox done. :)


And this is why my Father is a better man that I will ever be. :D

And this is why my Father is a better man that I will ever be. :D

Amen to that!

From DIY hero to overclocker hero...to sports legend! Damn I better run... :eek:
easy there John Kerry....settle down now

Let's now discuss the mating habits of the three-toed sloth. :D

The three toed sloth lives in the tropical rainforests of Amazonia.Same place you find many species who like to roll strange carboard tubes.These tubes become later subwoofers in the hands of the vast DIY comunity who cut them to a desired height and build devices called subwoofers.

Gestation Period:
5 - 6 months

Birth Season:
Births normally occur at the beginning of the dry season.

Birth Rate:
The female maned three-toed sloth usually has a single young.

Early Development:
A baby maned three-toed sloth clings to its mother’s abdomen with its well-formed, hook-shaped claws. The young suckles for up to 4 weeks and after weaning stays with her, being carried and learning feeding patterns, for another 6 months.

Maximum Age:
Thought to be less than 12 years.

Diet:
The maned three-toed sloth is a strict folivore that eats the leaves, buds, and soft twigs of a few forest trees, especially the Cecropia.

Behavior:
The maned three-toed sloth comes to the ground only to defecate, or to move to another tree if it cannot travel through the branches. It rarely descends to the ground because, when it is on a level surface, it is unable to stand and walk. On the ground the sloth can only drag itself along by its longer, stronger front legs and claws. On the other hand, it can swim well. In addition to its physical slowness, its muscles are small and weak for its overall body size, and even its metabolism is slower than the metabolism of most other mammals, giving it a low body temperature of just above 30º C (86º F). Its main defense is to stay still and unnoticed or to lash out with its formidable claws.

....

....

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/wadeere/steve.jpg

Boy, this thread is gone all weird ;)

I can confidently say, they don't get much weirder! :p

What happened to SteveC? Can't be THAT busy with work. :rolleyes:

What happened to SteveC? Can't be THAT busy with work. :rolleyes:

Maybe he just couldn't take it anymore, the weirdness was just too much! Or maybe he is studying up on sloths. :)

Ditto on Computers. Why on earth would I pay Alienware or anyone $3000 for a computer, when for a little just over $1000 I can have a PC that will outperform it and have better internal parts (motherboard, RAM, etc)? Yes my friend, that's right: max performance for the dollar. While your average joe is spending $3000 to get a PC capable of Playing Oblivion or doing hardcore video editing, I'm laughing with my $1000 e6300 at 3.4ghz which outdoes them, and spending the other $2000 in something I REALLY have a passion for: Home Audio!
I appreciate value, and I can sense the pride, but at the end of the day, it's still just increasing computing power. Now I will note that in your case it may be less nerdy because I believe your work is related to software engineering etc., but to pump out some extra polygons or better textures in a computer game.....again, I just picture the gang from Revenge of the Nerds. Call me a jerk, but I'm sticking to this one.

I'm only 5'11'', 169lbs.........but benching 285lb, athletic (varsity soccer, ACC, Gatech), and having an amateur boxing background in Honduras has its perks!!!
Now we're getting into a whole different realm, and things will only go downhill quickly from here, but what the hell ;) At the moment, 6', 224lbs, and ~9% BF. Personal bests were 340lbs on bench, 480lbs on deadlift, and though I never attempted a one rep max for squat, 425lb for sets wasn't a problem. I only do front squats now and I avoid one rep maxes in all lifts like the plague, too foolish. Competed and placed in powerlifting competitions, a NASS strongman competition, and strength/conditioning/agility competitions for high school lineman. Several awards for my high school football days with scholarship opportunities. And I'd prefer not to share any shirtless pics with this gang, thanks ;)

Getting married is about kids....period. Get married and enjoy children, thats what it's all about
I agree in the sense that I don't see too many reasons to get married if you don't plan on having children, but to each his own. The only thing I'm gonna put myself out on a limb and judge in this thread is computer overclocking :D

I want to know when they are going to bring back the "turbo" button on PCs. Think how fast these newer processors would be with the turbo option. :rolleyes:

-Eli

Now we're getting into a whole different realm, and things will only go downhill quickly from here, but what the hell ;) At the moment, 6', 224lbs, and ~9% BF. Personal bests were 340lbs on bench, 480lbs on deadlift, and though I never attempted a one rep max for squat, 425lb for sets wasn't a problem. I only do front squats now and I avoid one rep maxes in all lifts like the plague, too foolish. Competed and placed in powerlifting competitions, a NASS strongman competition, and strength/conditioning/agility competitions for high school lineman. Several awards for my high school football days with scholarship opportunities. And I'd prefer not to share any shirtless pics with this gang, thanks ;)
so let me guess...... you have a supermodel girlfriend, an Enzo, and Swiss cabins in the alps too?? http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/ohnoes.gif

[QUOTE=SteveCallas]I appreciate value, and I can sense the pride, but at the end of the day, it's still just increasing computing power. Now I will note that in your case it may be less nerdy because I believe your work is related to software engineering etc., but to pump out some extra polygons or better textures in a computer game.....again, I just picture the gang from Revenge of the Nerds. Call me a jerk, but I'm sticking to this one.]

But don't the nerds prevail in the "end'? :D


[Now we're getting into a whole different realm, and things will only go downhill quickly from here, but what the hell ;) At the moment, 6', 224lbs, and ~9% BF. Personal bests were 340lbs on bench, 480lbs on deadlift, and though I never attempted a one rep max for squat, 425lb for sets wasn't a problem. I only do front squats now and I avoid one rep maxes in all lifts like the plague, too foolish. Competed and placed in powerlifting competitions, a NASS strongman competition, and strength/conditioning/agility competitions for high school lineman. Several awards for my high school football days with scholarship opportunities.]

Take that Sherv! :D



[And I'd prefer not to share any shirtless pics with this gang, thanks ;)]

Hey Steve, you know talk is cheap around here. We need proof! ;) Besides, why not share with us? I'm sure countless "strangers" have seen you. Ok, block your face. How's that? :cool:

See, I knew that was gonna happen. Forget I said anything.

But don't the nerds prevail in the "end'?
Well the nerds prevail because they were the ones being persecuted. I'm not going to gather my former teamates and trash Sherv's or Willd's house because they overclock their computers :D Good movie by the way.

See, I knew that was gonna happen. Forget I said anything.

Too late now! :D

See, I knew that was gonna happen. Forget I said anything.

Post a pic with no head! You can't lose! No cheating though. Be next to your A18 sono. :D