You had mentioned that the A7-900 would be staying in the garage? Does this mean that it wont be making it into the theater room for tests?

They are not Torx screws. They have a rectangular socket rather than star/hex. I don't have a suitable bit for this either.Then they must be what is called a square drive. Unusual selection of screws if you want to have users do field repairs. I have a set that includes square drive bits. I have just never needed them. When I got my replacement driver, SVS included a bit, but then they used phillips. Is it possible there is a bit in the parts bag that came with the sub?

Not that I can see. A couple of spare fuses, mains lead(s) and instructions and that is it.

You had mentioned that the A7-900 would be staying in the garage? Does this mean that it wont be making it into the theater room for tests?

I am being rather devious on this one. We are going to do some GP testing the morning of our GTG on 9-22 ... this will be with all the over 120 pound subs.

After the test, as it will be a party atmosphere, I am planning on a few of us manhandling this beast into our upstairs theater room.

At that point, we are into the "easier to ask forgiveness than get permissions" arena .. and it will stay.

Afterall, who is going to move a 435 pound sub back out ? :D

Not that I can see. A couple of spare fuses, mains lead(s) and instructions and that is it.

You didn't get the Pen ? :D

I am a bit relieved here ... I thought there was something I had missed when looking at those "screw heads".

Seriously, I doubt it is anything serious .. worst case, they send me a new amp, and then I get the tool needed, too.

PLUS ... we get to see pics of the inside.

Some guys dig those pics ... probably the same guys who used to put Playboy inside Sports Illustrated when they were 12 ... :eek::D

You didn't get the Pen ? :D

Oh God, I forgot the pen! :o

You didn't get the Pen ? :D

I am a bit relieved here ... I thought there was something I had missed when looking at those "screw heads".

Seriously, I doubt it is anything serious .. worst case, they send me a new amp, and then I get the tool needed, too.

If they are as generous with you as they were with me, you should get an SVS hat and a Sub-human T-shirt, also. Style'n.:cool:

No hat or T-shirt this time, but I already had a pretty good collection.

In the meantime, I have been having a lot of fun with the Def Tech Trinity.

In room, it hits 18 Hz easily, is relatively compact, and can definitely bring the thunder when called upon. My wife is totally hooked on Prison Break now, and we are nearing the end of season one - last night was the guy's escaping, and there was a selection of excellent bass scenes.

This sub is definitely worth considering for a larger theater room in which high levels of under 18 Hz bass will be cost prohibitive. In fact, anyone who realizes just how rarely under 18 Hz bass is present should take a look at this guy.

Street pricing is about $2000 with some negotiating skills, and that puts it into more realistic company.

same, when I upgraded from ISD2 to NSD2, use Philips screw drivers to get job done.:)

http://photo.pchome.com.tw/lienly/04/

When I got my replacement driver, SVS included a bit, but then they used phillips.

really?:confused:

how come in recent orders, only have pen, fuse, pads, manual, power cable.
never had such T shirt nor hat???:(

If they are as generous with you as they were with me, you should get an SVS hat and a Sub-human T-shirt, also. Style'n.:cool:

the answer surprised me!!! :eek:

SVS has no any action??? :confused: what's wrong?
also DT seems has quite good performance vs Fathom 113!:cool: hmm, wait SVS alive to test again.

where has info and users comments of DT? how's its price vs other 2 brands?

Here is a graph of the Fathom on WOTW, the machines emerging scene. This is the Fathom 113 ... unfortunately, the SVS seems to be completely dead.

The Fathom is working fine ... the SVS doing nothing.

And it looks like it will be a Def Tech vs. JL Audio test for a while.

Here is the Fathom on the machines scene in our upstairs, hard to fill room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/WOTWJL.jpg

Here is the same scene on the Def Tech:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/Deftechwotw.jpg

The Def Tech is one fantastic home theater subwoofer ... no single sub has subjectively shaken this room on WOTW like the Def Tech did ... it was absolutely menacing.

if their smart more people read t-shirts than anything so advertising at the cost of
a t-shirt would be cheaper than adds and seen by more.

We use a square-drive screw head for the amp installs. If anyone needs this bit, just give me a shout in Sales and we'll send one out.

Craig, we're not closed over the long weekend, so if you need some tech support just send me an email or give me a ring. For the time being, I would shut the subwoofer off and unplug it from the outlet for several minutes. Then try to power it up again with a straight RCA connection. If it fires up, then try the SMS-1, etc.

really?:confused:

how come in recent orders, only have pen, fuse, pads, manual, power cable.
never had such T shirt nor hat???:(I got a hat and t-shirt because I had to do field repairs, not because I bought a sub. Though, throwing in a hat and T with every order shouldn't break the bank.

We use a square-drive screw head for the amp installs. If anyone needs this bit, just give me a shout in Sales and we'll send one out.

Craig, we're not closed over the long weekend, so if you need some tech support just send me an email or give me a ring. For the time being, I would shut the subwoofer off and unplug it from the outlet for several minutes. Then try to power it up again with a straight RCA connection. If it fires up, then try the SMS-1, etc.Ed, good to see you guys don't get a holiday.;) You can't make a statement like "unplug, wait, plug in, power up may fix the problem" without some explanation as to why this may work.:eek:

We use a square-drive screw head for the amp installs. If anyone needs this bit, just give me a shout in Sales and we'll send one out.

Craig, we're not closed over the long weekend, so if you need some tech support just send me an email or give me a ring. For the time being, I would shut the subwoofer off and unplug it from the outlet for several minutes. Then try to power it up again with a straight RCA connection. If it fires up, then try the SMS-1, etc.

Ed ... Good to see you up and about. I tried shutting her down, then hooking up a CD player directly, and nothing.

It worked fine for the first few days, and the amp also turns on - green light and all. Does the amp even turn on when the fuse is blown ?

You can answer here, and I also emailed this to you ... what size square drive do I need ? Lowes is about a 3 minute drive from here. I will go buy one. :)

Probably an R3 or #3. They only come in 3 sizes R1, R2, and R3 (or #1, #2, and #3). A full set shouldn't cost more than $2.

The Def Tech is one fantastic home theater subwoofer ... no single sub has subjectively shaken this room on WOTW like the Def Tech did ... it was absolutely menacing.

awesome, you're having way too much fun over there craig :D


here's one of my favorite quotes from you on the trinity:


We had a rainy night last night, so my 10 year old (in lieu of taking him to play minature golf) and I watched an old subwoofer standard: Star Wars I, Phantom Menace.

The Trinity reminded me a lot of my old SVS B4+ ... During the Pod Race scene, it absolutely smashes in the chest. It is not quite as "fast" at it as is the Fathom, but it hits harder.

During the course of Ep I, there are also about 200 explosions .. and the Trinity makes the movie fun. I know this is rarely mentioned in a subwoofer review, but even my 10 year old was jumping out of his seat during some of these scenes, and yelling over ... "Dad, did you FEEL that ... that was so COOL".

For real world use, this subwoofer is turning out to be an excellent product.

Guys ... the testing on the Asub is finished, and this $289 subwoofer managed to score 85 points.

Here is one reason why ... look at the 2 graphs between it and the Elemental Designs A2-300 for the WOTW machines emerge scene:

A2-300

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/EDwotwch.jpg

A-Sub

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/AsubWOTW.jpg

This modest size subwoofer is just plain outstanding. Jon Lane mentioned it would be back in production, so it definitely has earned a spot in the performance chart.

Guys ... the testing on the Asub is finished, and this $289 subwoofer managed to score 85 points.

This modest size subwoofer is just plain outstanding.
What's the Asub? :confused:

Guys ... the testing on the Asub is finished, and this $289 subwoofer managed to score 85 points.

Here is one reason why ... look at the 2 graphs between it and the Elemental Designs A2-300 for the WOTW machines emerge scene:

A2-300

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/EDwotwch.jpg

A-Sub

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/AsubWOTW.jpg

This modest size subwoofer is just plain outstanding. Jon Lane mentioned it would be back in production, so it definitely has earned a spot in the performance chart.


Craig:
When and where can I buy one!

Ian

Ian ... I don't know when they will be back in production. I got this before going on vacation, and was testing it when Jon Lane mentioned it was out of stock and production. He recently said it was going to go back into production, along with a 15 inch version.

I will try to get some pics later ... the driver is quite beefy, and this is one great $289 sub.

In fact, it beat the $800 + sub from TAI in the Dana line, though the Dana 600 does look nicer, in my wife's opinion.

As you already know, looks don't count in this thread ... :D

Craig:
I appreciate your reply. You make it a lot easier to shop for a sub with your rankings thread. Keep us posted. If you hear anything through the grape vine please PM me.
Thanks!

Ian

Ian, you are welcome, and if I hear anything, I will let you know. Hopefully Jon Lane will drop by and let us know what he thinks.

I did go to Lowes to buy the necessary screwdriver set .. it is an R2 .. the connections are fine, and when I run a line from a CD player right into the Ultra, I get nothing.

I sent Ed an email a few hours ago, and am waiting his reply. :)

Craig,
Nice....I was wondering if you plan on doing any tests on the ED A3-300?

Hope you get that SVS sub working!

What crap luck, but SVS stands behind their products. I was really looking forward to seeing you results as I'm sure a lot of other people were.

Gents, There is no doubt that SVS will get me up and running again soon. It is just one of those "things happen" deals with the amp.

This is merely a delay in the SVS, and moving other subwoofers through more quickly.

The Ultra will get its proper beating soon enough ... and based on what I heard before the "stoppage", it is going to perform VERY well.

Gents, There is no doubt that SVS will get me up and running again soon. It is just one of those "things happen" deals with the amp.

This is merely a delay in the SVS, and moving other subwoofers through more quickly.

The Ultra will get its proper beating soon enough ... and based on what I heard before the "stoppage", it is going to perform VERY well.

Craig,
Did you see my question earlier in thread?
Also, when will we have updated rankings to include the Trinity?
Thanks

Craig,
I have a Revel B15 and I like it a lot. It will make the couch vibrate on movies and sounds great with music in my system. But I wonder how it would compare with subs like the fathom, dd18 and the new SVS ultra. Are you familar with the Revel? The opportunity I will have compare any one of those against it in the near future is slim to none. Thanks for all the info I have gained from your postings. Great stuff.

Tom

I am being rather devious on this one. We are going to do some GP testing the morning of our GTG on 9-22 ... this will be with all the over 120 pound subs.

After the test, as it will be a party atmosphere, I am planning on a few of us manhandling this beast into our upstairs theater room.

At that point, we are into the "easier to ask forgiveness than get permissions" arena .. and it will stay.

Afterall, who is going to move a 435 pound sub back out ? :D

Now this post gets me excited! :D

GP measurements make for great reading material.

Craig,
Nice....I was wondering if you plan on doing any tests on the ED A3-300?

I think the A3-300 uses the same driver as the A2-300, with a bit more powerful amp and better bracing. For $100 more than the A2-300, that seems like a pretty close call. Elemental Designs specs the A3 as having about 1.8 dB higher output.

Either will do a pretty nice job for the $$$.

I think the A3-300 uses the same driver as the A2-300, with a bit more powerful amp and better bracing. For $100 more than the A2-300, that seems like a pretty close call. Elemental Designs specs the A3 as having about 1.8 dB higher output.

Either will do a pretty nice job for the $$$.


Thanks for your reply....your right about the driver I think they have so many. The amp has 150 watts more so maybe it will give more on the low end? In your experience with the a2 was the bass fast and not boomy?

Thanks, and hey if we need to have you do every model at Ed and every other company would you be up for it??

:D

Thanks for your reply....your right about the driver I think they have so many. The amp has 150 watts more so maybe it will give more on the low end? In your experience with the a2 was the bass fast and not boomy?

Thanks, and hey if we need to have you do every model at Ed and every other company would you be up for it??

:D

My wife thinks I already have gotten them all ... :D

Ron Stimpson (yup, da boss) has personally taken control of the Ultra situation. I do believe this is the only amp failure (if that what it is ... I have tried a direct hook up to a CD player, and also used the XLR input from rhe XLR out on my Parasound ... and nothing) they have had.

It is highly unusual to have an amp work for a week, then stop so suddenly.

Ron offered to send a new amp, to allow me to return the sub, or to go to the factory.

If possible, I am going to take a drive, and hopefully get some info back as to what happened.

As usual, the service has been first rate with SVS.

Ron Stimpson (yup, da boss) has personally taken control of the Ultra situation.
With so many people watching and waiting for the outcome of your test, I can't say that I'm surprised "da boss" got involved. :)

Have you done the 9V battery test on the driver? Hate to wait for the amp only to find out it is the woofer.

Randy, I am planning on driving to SVS early Wednsday morning, taking the Ultra with me. This will allow the guys a chance to look it over first hand.

ED subs questions. I am not a fanatic, just someone looking to get a sub for HT/music. I like the ed lineup but not sure which one. I prefer the 10 inch subs, for smaller size, and even tho they won't go as low as the 12 inch, I doubt I will notice much difference. Is this true? And for the 10 inch, is it worth it to go for the A3 over the A2, for the more powerful amp? Medium size room, and not looking to to kill it with sound, just want something that sounds nice. Thanks for any input.

Randy, I am planning on driving to SVS early Wednsday morning, taking the Ultra with me. This will allow the guys a chance to look it over first hand.

Hope you got some help loading up that beast in your car.

Randy, I am planning on driving to SVS early Wednsday morning, taking the Ultra with me. This will allow the guys a chance to look it over first hand.

maybe they can loan you an "extra" ultra so you can test a stacked pair :eek:

or maybe even a PC-Ultra :cool:

don't forget your camera :D

In your experience with the a2 was the bass fast and not boomy?

This is an interesting question. If it digs that deep that loudly and still retains clear definition without roundness, overhang, bloom, or boom, that is a mighty nice sub.

The Def Tech's testing is done ... and it scored 97 points. It is an excellent subwoofer, and delivered over 110 dB in room from 20 Hz and up. This in room test data basically shows that there are no scenes that the Trinity will compress at anything close to reference levels.

It would have scored even higher had it been more articulate on music, and delivered more bass below 20 Hz.

For many, though, the Trinity will be the perfect sub ... Def Tech has a HUGE dealer network, and auditions should be easily gotten.

It is also a sub that is fun to have in one's system ... I am thoroughly enjoying this beast.

Another plus is it is impossible to make a Trinity to bottom, or make a bad noise. This is something that most reviewers ignore, but as with most really good designs, the Trinity will keep you out of trouble.

Want to show off to your friends during the Olyphant scene in "Return of the King"? ... Go for it.

And the Pod race scene from Phantom Menace is almost scary.

Here is the latest summary ...

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
Def Tech Trinity: 97 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Acculine A-sub: 85 points
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

The Def Tech's testing is done ... and it scored 97 points. It is an excellent subwoofer, and delivered over 110 dB in room from 20 Hz and up.

For many, though, the Trinity will be the perfect sub ... Def Tech has a HUGE dealer network, and auditions should be easily gotten.
Wow... great stuff.

I gotta say, your scoring is a great resource for a lot of people. I only wish I had known about it before I bought my Plus/2 last year. Oh well. :o

Awesome, thanks for those impressions, Craig! It's really too bad that the PB13-U went out of commission. I really want to see how it stacks up against the others here!

ED subs questions. I am not a fanatic, just someone looking to get a sub for HT/music. I like the ed lineup but not sure which one. I prefer the 10 inch subs, for smaller size, and even tho they won't go as low as the 12 inch, I doubt I will notice much difference. Is this true? And for the 10 inch, is it worth it to go for the A3 over the A2, for the more powerful amp? Medium size room, and not looking to to kill it with sound, just want something that sounds nice. Thanks for any input.

Getting the largest, best subwoofer you can both afford financially and also fit in your home is the best investment. The A3-250 looks like a very nice sub ... If size is an issue, it looks quite good.

Wow... great stuff.

I gotta say, your scoring is a great resource for a lot of people. I only wish I had known about it before I bought my Plus/2 last year. Oh well. :o

The Plus/2 is a great sub ... the numbers ratings are assigned based on several criteria. The plus/2 was let down due to its music performance, but for home theater, it is excellent ... very similar to the Def Tech.

Is there something you feel you are missing with your plus/2 ?

Craig,

Have you had an opportunity to listen to the Def Tech Supercube Reference sub? If so, how does it rank among the subs listed on the 1st page?

Thanks

Is there something you feel you are missing with your plus/2 ?
Yep. Floor-space. ;)

Yep. Floor-space. ;)

Here ... this will make you feel better ... This is an SVS PB-10 next to the Elemental Designs A7-900 ...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

Here ... this will make you feel better ...
Thanks, but we keep our fridge in the kitchen.

:p

Thanks, but we keep our fridge in the kitchen.

:p

If that sucker could keep beer cold, it would get 200 points ... :D

By the way, for anyone considering the SVS Plus/2... it is an amazing sub. I'm not knocking its performance at all.

But if I could do it over again, I'd get something smaller. Just as awesome performance wise -- but smaller. The Plus/2 stands out like a sore thumb in our family room.

Good to see the Acculine A-sub did pretty well here. If it is the same sub that sells for $289.00, the folks at TAI are going to be busy for a very long time. I guess it's safe to declare it the king of budget sub then? Tha A-sub is so small and cheap one could afford to buy two.

Good to see the Acculine A-sub did pretty well here. If it is the same sub that sells for $289.00, the folks at TAI are going to be busy for a very long time. I guess it's safe to declare it the king of budget sub then? Tha A-sub is so small and cheap one could afford to buy two.

The Asub is a gem ... During the tests, I kept going to look at it. I kept thinking I had the PB12-NSD hooked up, this compact sub was delivering amazing amounts of deep, tight bass.

The Asub is a gem ... During the tests, I kept going to look at it. I kept thinking I had the PB12-NSD hooked up, this compact sub was delivering amazing amounts of deep, tight bass.
Interesting. Got a link to this sub?

Also, what do ya thing your ratings # would be with a pair of these babies?

Craig,

Are there any plans to review any of the SVS powered cylinders to see how they stack up? Thanks again for all of the great info!

- Bill

The Asub is a gem ... During the tests, I kept going to look at it. I kept thinking I had the PB12-NSD hooked up, this compact sub was delivering amazing amounts of deep, tight bass.

I never owned or heard any of the products from TAI. I was looking at the Sawns before I went with the Rockets....Don't have the Rockets anymore though. I am looking hard at their speaker line up...I am following your speaker thread....

Interesting. Got a link to this sub?

Also, what do ya thing your ratings # would be with a pair of these babies?
That would be very helpful for many, I presume. The sub being so small we could put a few of them....even the wife wouldn't object. :D

Go to the audio insider home page....theaudioinsider.co

Gents ... Duals will typically add 4-6 points to a subwoofer. And, as another reminder, these ratings are a composite of measured performance and blind listening. Personal preference will also come into play.

As an example, I would but dual PB12-NSD's over a single Plus/2 ... but other factors may make the plus/2 a better choice.

Craig... thanks for doing all this testing.

I look forward to reading your opinions and test results every day. What you have to say carries a lot of weight with me and from reading this thread, with others as well. I own a trinity sub and I agree it is a blast. Still, I was kinda holding my breath to see how you found it stacked up against the great subs you've played with.

You seem to have fun with all this, which is what its all about.

Believe me when I say we have as much fun reading about it!

it is an R2 ..

Little known trivial, but the square drive is also known as a roberston type and primarially used in Canada.


I know that from working on Canadian made hot tubs for a couple years. :)

This is an interesting question. If it digs that deep that loudly and still retains clear definition without roundness, overhang, bloom, or boom, that is a mighty nice sub.

Craig:

Any comment on the musicality of the A2 - 300?

Gents ... Duals will typically add 4-6 points to a subwoofer. And, as another reminder, these ratings are a composite of measured performance and blind listening. Personal preference will also come into play.

As an example, I would but dual PB12-NSD's over a single Plus/2 ... but other factors may make the plus/2 a better choice.

my subs are 15" sealed and forward firing

when i stack 2, the SPL meter jumps 6 db

when i stack 2 more right next to the first 2, the SPL meter jumps another 6 db

this was with a 40hz sine wave

this is one of the things i like about forward firing sealed subs, when you stack them, they "couple" with each other pretty good

i'm not sure how well ported or passive radiator type designs couple with each other when stacked, same thing with down firing or cylinder subs

i would bet that stacked fathoms get the full 6 db bump

my subs are 15" sealed and forward firing

when i stack 2, the SPL meter jumps 6 db

when i stack 2 more right next to the first 2, the SPL meter jumps another 6 db

this was with a 40hz sine wave

this is one of the things i like about forward firing sealed subs, when you stack them, they "couple" with each other pretty good

i'm not sure how well ported or passive radiator type designs couple with each other when stacked, same thing with down firing or cylinder subs

i would bet that stacked fathoms get the full 6 db bump

I was talking points in the comparison thread ... 4 points is about 20%, 6 points about 30% ... Doubling up the subs does not double the perceived performance.

You are right, stacked subs will normally see a 6 dB increase in SPL.

Craig:

Any comment on the musicality of the A2 - 300?

For $350, it is pretty good. The Asub is more musical, but it is not available, so the A2-300 is the best $350 option.

I was talking points in the comparison thread ... 4 points is about 20%, 6 points about 30% ... Doubling up the subs does not double the perceived performance.

You are right, stacked subs will normally see a 6 dB increase in SPL.

:o

For $350, it is pretty good. The Asub is more musical, but it is not available, so the A2-300 is the best $350 option.

Thanks for the summary. If I was reading the earlier posts correctly, the Asub will be back in production "soon". I'm guessing that if it doesn't return to production in the next two or so months, I may go with the HSU VTF-2 MK 3 as the most musical sub in production in the $500 range. (I'd guess the Rocket UFW-10 would be a contender in that range if it was still available.)

Craig, how come the giant ED sub hasn't been added to the list yet?

Craig, how come the giant ED sub hasn't been added to the list yet?

Because it is still hooked up in my detached, 5 car garage. It sounds pretty darn good with my Klipsch Cornwalls, too.

It will be the end of September before it is done. Somehow, I gotta sneak it past my wife, and into our theater room.

My plan is to go with the obvious: After the GP session on the 22nd, take 6 guys and haul it into the house while everyone is there.

Now ... how to convince her later that it is just a REALLY big plant stand ? :D

Just put a doily on top. She'll never notice it.

Because it is still hooked up in my detached, 5 car garage. It sounds pretty darn good with my Klipsch Cornwalls, too.

It will be the end of September before it is done. Somehow, I gotta sneak it past my wife, and into our theater room.

My plan is to go with the obvious: After the GP session on the 22nd, take 6 guys and haul it into the house while everyone is there.

Now ... how to convince her later that it is just a REALLY big plant stand ? :D

You mean despite all these years of training your wife (i.e. testing out huge subs in your theater room), she'd balk at the biggest sub yet? :eek: :D Good luck. :o

Just put a doily on top. She'll never notice it.


hahaha

Guys ... the testing on the Asub is finished, and this $289 subwoofer managed to score 85 points.

This modest size subwoofer is just plain outstanding. Jon Lane mentioned it would be back in production, so it definitely has earned a spot in the performance chart.

Any idea WHEN the Asub will be back in production? Any hint as to if it will be soon?

I was talking points in the comparison thread ... 4 points is about 20%, 6 points about 30% ... Doubling up the subs does not double the perceived performance.

You are right, stacked subs will normally see a 6 dB increase in SPL.

Craig,

Would you say that a single quality sub will sound more refined than trying to intergrate multiple subs even if they're identical?

I've spent the better part of the year doing all kinds of variations and it seems that once you get past 1 sub, you wind up with about as many new problems as you resolved.

I'd guess the Rocket UFW-10 would be a contender in that range if it was still available.
Keep in mind the MFW-15 will be out soon.

Any idea WHEN the Asub will be back in production? Any hint as to if it will be soon?

That would be a question to ask Jon Lane at The Audio Insider. I know he posted something about getting more in.

Craig,

Would you say that a single quality sub will sound more refined than trying to intergrate multiple subs even if they're identical?

I've spent the better part of the year doing all kinds of variations and it seems that once you get past 1 sub, you wind up with about as many new problems as you resolved.

I have tried a few variations of placing multiple subs into a room, and always end up going back to a single location ... whether it is stacking a couple, or one big one.

Based on experience, as with many things, this is room dependent.

Keep in mind the MFW-15 will be out soon.

Yes, and it looks like a KILLER $600 sub ... looking forward to getting one here. :)

Keep in mind the MFW-15 will be out soon.

Fair enough, though it's almost twice as large, and ported, if I'm reading the specs right.

I'm looking for maximum snap (usually one gets more accurate tonality/decay in a non-ported design -- though not always, of course, and at the price of more output and depth being tougher to achieve). And size matters (smaller is better in this case) in the sense that placement in the room matters -- and a sub that is half the size gives me a dozen more locations to try since it can fit more places -- especially since in my room, two subs are needed to smooth out the response among the primary listening seats.

Listening tests have already begun ... outdoor measurements will be on Sept 22 ... weather permitting ... when we have several guys here to help with the monster subs.

By monster, I mean the new Ultra, Def Tech Trinity, my DIY project, and the A7-900. All are 155 pounds or more.

Before then, I plan on testing the PB12-NSD, Hsu VTF-3 HO, Acculine A-Sub, and maybe a couple more.

Hey Craig, any reason that you are testing the HO again? Did you ever purchase the HSU MBM-12 for testing?

Thanks

Hey Craig, any reason that you are testing the HO again? Did you ever purchase the HSU MBM-12 for testing?

Thanks

I am hoping to catalog a few subs, especially the PB12-NSD, so the info we glean here can be contrasted to what Ilkka and AVTalk have done with their tests.

As a simple example ... If Ilkka has the PB12-NSD @ 100 dB @ 20 Hz, and I measure 98 dB @ 20 Hz, it will give an objective look at the SPL levels of the other subs here ... not that this is the only important parameter, but it will likely be of some interest.

I do believe that AVTalk is going to be testing the new PB-13U.

If this works out, we will have quite the collection of data from 3 sources on a LOT of subwoofers.

As a simple example ... If Ilkka has the PB12-NSD @ 100 dB @ 20 Hz, and I measure 98 dB @ 20 Hz,

I know its just an example but why would it change? shouldnt both be tested in the same conditions besides temperature and humidity and altitude? or is it the mics are just calibrated differently? or is it something else? I know with my termlab its about 10 dbs down from my radio shack meter, but temperature/humidity/altitude dont affect the reading much, ive heard .7 db at most... but I have only seen a variance of .1 from location to location with mine, its a VERY consistent mic...

Thank you Craig, any plans for the MBM-12 testing?

Craig, it doesn't seem with Illka's tests that the mic location is equidistant from the ports and driver. Do you think that is important or not? There has been some debate on that.

Kevin,

Craig has already done the MBM-12. Seems like it was around February.

Craig, it doesn't seem with Illka's tests that the mic location is equidistant from the ports and driver. Do you think that is important or not? There has been some debate on that.

i was thinking the same thing. like with the trinity, is there more output from the active drivers on the front or from the passive radiators on the sides?

i was thinking the same thing. like with the trinity, is there more output from the active drivers on the front or from the passive radiators on the sides?

That all depends on the frequency. As you get near the frequency at which the sub is tuned (18hz perhaps?), most of the sound will come from the passives. As you move up, the passives do less and less.

Kevin,

Craig has already done the MBM-12. Seems like it was around February.

I searched the thread but couldn't find it, can you attach a link to it for me?

Thanks

Any update on SVS diagnosing why that new sub's amp died?

Any update on SVS diagnosing why that new sub's amp died?

I am taking the Ultra to SVS's factory tomorrow morning. They will swap out the amp and check the unit out.

They will also be looking into what happened with it.

If they find beer, we will know my kids are in DEEP trouble ... :eek:

I am taking the Ultra to SVS's factory tomorrow morning. They will swap out the amp and check the unit out.

They will also be looking into what happened with it.

If they find beer, we will know my kids are in DEEP trouble ... :eek:

You know...I've experienced that problem before.

Not sure if you knew this or not...but a Budweiser 40 poured through an N64 will make the N64 stop working...unless you give it a bath and then dry it out for a day.

Hopefully no one will be getting yelled at.

Craig,

Have you had an opportunity to listen to the Def Tech Supercube Reference sub? If so, how does it rank among the subs listed on the 1st page?

Thanks

That all depends on the frequency. As you get near the frequency at which the sub is tuned (18hz perhaps?), most of the sound will come from the passives. As you move up, the passives do less and less.

This got me thinking. My tower speakers have 10" side firing passives and my subs have 14" passives. They face each other and are about 7" apart. The center of the tower passive is lined up with the edge of the subs passive, so about half of each passive driver is firing into the other. Is this not a good idea?

Craig,

Have you had an opportunity to listen to the Def Tech Supercube Reference sub? If so, how does it rank among the subs listed on the 1st page?

Thanks

No, I have not ... but I do believe it is 1/2 a Trinity, correct ?

If duals add 4-6 points ... then 1/2 would possibly subtract ? This is just a guess, but possibly a good one.

No, I have not ... but I do believe it is 1/2 a Trinity, correct ?

If duals add 4-6 points ... then 1/2 would possibly subtract ? This is just a guess, but possibly a good one.

Yes, I believe it is half a Trinity. You don't have #s on the Trinity yet right?

They will also be looking into what happened with it.
Oh dear! This might not be a good thing Craig??:p Well I'm pretty sure you cleared the port out prior to testing:o

I'm pretty sure you cleared the port out prior to testing:o
Hmmm... does a beer bottle fit inside a port hole? ;)

Hmmm... does a beer bottle fit inside a port hole?
Lol... I could post a port that a guy can fit a half gallon down, but past is past;)

the trinity looks like 2 supercube references stacked (but in one cabinet)

a little while back, i emailed def tech and asked them if the trinity and the supercube reference use the same drivers and this is what i got back:

******

The 14” woofers and 14” passive radiators have the same appearance in both subwoofers, however, the impedance of the woofers and the stiffness of the passive radiators are a bit different in the two models.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology

******

i'm guessing the impedance had to be changed to run dual drivers off one amp and i'm guessing the PR's in the trinity are tuned a bit lower than the PR's in the reference. this is just my guess though

the trinity looks like 2 supercube references stacked (but in one cabinet)

a little while back, i emailed def tech and asked them if the trinity and the supercube reference use the same drivers and this is what i got back:

******

The 14” woofers and 14” passive radiators have the same appearance in both subwoofers, however, the impedance of the woofers and the stiffness of the passive radiators are a bit different in the two models.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology

******

i'm guessing the impedance had to be changed to run dual drivers off one amp and i'm guessing the PR's in the trinity are tuned a bit lower than the PR's in the reference. this is just my guess though

Your guess is correct from what I've been told in the past. I've had a pair of References stacked and now currently just have the Trinity. I prefer the overall performance of the Trinity over a pair of stacked References (but of course the References can be moved around separately).

Speaking of the Trinity ... The 97 score is definitely warranted. We watched a couple more movies last night, and it is just plain a GREAT subwoofer.

IF anyone is interested in getting a Trinity, drop me a PM. I have a source for them, and anything else in the Def Tech line.

I have no financial interest - but rather will just put you in contact with the dealer.

Hey Craig, have you our anyone else posted any photos of the A-sub? I searched and couldn't find any photos anywhere. What is the finish like? Are we talking Onix or ED, or somewhere in between? When this thing becomes available for purchase again it looks like it will be a budget-champ.

Craig, I've got a suggestion/request for you:

I'd love to see you rate a PAIR of MFW-15 subs (once they come out, of course).

Even better, I'd really love to see a head-to-head competition: a pair of MFW-15s against just one of the big boys (F113, Ultra13, etc).

I'd bet that Mark or Mark would be happy to supply you with a couple of MFW-15s... at least as a loaner for the test. ;)

Whatta ya think?

For $350, it is pretty good. The Asub is more musical, but it is not available, so the A2-300 is the best $350 option.

Which is better for dedicated HT only? A2-300 or A-SUB? Thanks.

Which is better for dedicated HT only? A2-300 or A-SUB? Thanks.

IT is a close call ... The eD will give below 20 Hz performance, the Asub better from 30 Hz and up (and is solid to the low 20's).

Movies have a lot more bass from 30 Hz and up than below 30 ... but to some guys, the occasional 18 Hz effect is worth the trade off ... to others, having better bass in the upper frequencies is more important.

Hey Craig, have you our anyone else posted any photos of the A-sub? I searched and couldn't find any photos anywhere. What is the finish like? Are we talking Onix or ED, or somewhere in between? When this thing becomes available for purchase again it looks like it will be a budget-champ.

The Asub looks a lot like an Axiom. I will try to get some pics this weekend.

The SVS is fixed ... They found a pinched lead from a transformer. I asked them to follow up with confirmation, but the components of the amp are all fine.

SVS put a new amp in, and kept the old one to check over.

Service was first rate, as usual. :)

IT is a close call ... The eD will give below 20 Hz performance, the Asub better from 30 Hz and up (and is solid to the low 20's).

Movies have a lot more bass from 30 Hz and up than below 30 ... but to some guys, the occasional 18 Hz effect is worth the trade off ... to others, having better bass in the upper frequencies is more important.

OK, so I think the A-Sub will be preferred for the majority of movies. OK, I guess I'll wait till Nov. for the A-Sub to be back in stock.

They found a pinched lead from a transformer.
I hate when that happens.

;)

The Def Tech's testing is done ... and it scored 97 points. It is an excellent subwoofer, and delivered over 110 dB in room from 20 Hz and up. This in room test data basically shows that there are no scenes that the Trinity will compress at anything close to reference levels.

It would have scored even higher had it been more articulate on music, and delivered more bass below 20 Hz.

For many, though, the Trinity will be the perfect sub ... Def Tech has a HUGE dealer network, and auditions should be easily gotten.

It is also a sub that is fun to have in one's system ... I am thoroughly enjoying this beast.

Another plus is it is impossible to make a Trinity to bottom, or make a bad noise. This is something that most reviewers ignore, but as with most really good designs, the Trinity will keep you out of trouble.

Want to show off to your friends during the Olyphant scene in "Return of the King"? ... Go for it.

And the Pod race scene from Phantom Menace is almost scary.

wow, this post is 2 days old and i some how missed it, things move fast around here :o

thanks for the review craig, your work is really appreciated. you are a true subwoofer aficionado :D

i'm guessing with a little more playing around with placement and tweaking, you might be able to squeeze a bit more "musical" performance out of the trinity. like you said in an earlier post, "moving these an inch or 2 can make a bigger difference in the sound quality". also, def tech recommends keeping the crossover dialed down to the 50hz range to make the trintiy more "musical" (i think you keep yours set at 80hz for all your testing)

thanks again for the review, hopefully your review will give def tech a little more "street cred" around here :cool:

i hope you don't mind but here is a full recap of your trinity review from day 1 for those who are just tuning in :D

**************


The Trinity is here ... It has been unboxed for about 45 minutes. I calibrated it, and used the Auto EQ on the SMS-1 ... it looks to be pretty flat (+/- 3.5 dB) from 18 Hz and up ...

Right now, I have "The Hulk" fired up .... it definitely shakes the room.
For a first real report on the Trinity - We watched most of "The Shooter" tonight, and the Trinity did an excellent job of giving a chest slam when the big sniper rifle is shot. It also does the usual bomb scene stuff with floor shaking results.

It is not quite as percussive as the Fathom 113's ... but it is close.
We finished "The Shooter" last night, and the Trinity is getting more impressive. There is a scene late in the movie in which an large house explodes ... it is a continuous 22-30 Hz rumble, and the Trinity shook the room like it wanted to cause damage.

It was visceral, chest pounding, and VERY clean.

It also felt like it was not straining.

Taking 4 x 14 inch passives and tuning them in the low 20's may not make for the best "Look what she'll do @ 15 Hz bass", but for real world performance, it was a smart move on Def Tech's part.

The Brick and Mortar world has a contender in the "high output for the $$$$" arena.
Ear ... Go for it, my friend. The Trinity is a very nice subwoofer - harder to set up than some, but it is a performer.

I have Meatloaf's "Back into Hell" rolling right now ... a fantastic kick drum. My wife wants to watch "You, Me and Dupree" tonight.

I put my foot down, telling her that we are testing a new subwoofer, and it is not time for a comedy. I demanded that we watch The Haunting DTS that I bought last month.

I will let you guys know how Matt Dillon and Owen Wilson combine in a comedy when we are done. :p :rolleyes: :D
You have dual PR's on opposite sides and dual actives facing forward ... compared to other subs, moving these an inch or 2 can make a bigger difference in the sound quality.

I don't have REW, no ... but I have been switching between a Fathom and the Trinity ... The Trinity is doing a very nice job of matching the agility of the Fathom.

There is no noticable lag from the PR's...
thanks for the testing and review craig

i emailed def tech and asked them about the thickness of the MDF and got this back:

Front panel: 2”

Side panels: 1.75”

Rear panel” 1”

Thanks,

Chet Pelkowski

Definitive Technology


thought that might interest you
I will try to get my wife to get her digital out tomorrow. I already had the sock rolled down ... in some ways, the Trinity reminds me of a cool DIY project.

Morph The Cat is playing now ... good stuff.

OTK .... thanks for the info. :)
Right now, I can say I like the Trinity, it is deep, powerful, and sounds great.
Back to the Trinity ... I have been tweaking it some more, and it is getting higher marks all the time. We watched "Cars" last night ... and there is some surprisingly percussive bass in the movie, as well as in the opening 45 second instrumental with some DEEP drum thwacks ... the Trinity smacks one in the chest ... very authoritative.

The Trinity also adds a nice warmth to the soundtrack ... my guess is it produces some fairly high 2nd order harmonics, which may not look that great on a graph, but it can sound VERY good.

Measurements will be taken after all our travels to confirm this.
We had a rainy night last night, so my 10 year old (in lieu of taking him to play minature golf) and I watched an old subwoofer standard: Star Wars I, Phantom Menace.

The Trinity reminded me a lot of my old SVS B4+ ... During the Pod Race scene, it absolutely smashes in the chest. It is not quite as "fast" at it as is the Fathom, but it hits harder.

During the course of Ep I, there are also about 200 explosions .. and the Trinity makes the movie fun. I know this is rarely mentioned in a subwoofer review, but even my 10 year old was jumping out of his seat during some of these scenes, and yelling over ... "Dad, did you FEEL that ... that was so COOL".

For real world use, this subwoofer is turning out to be an excellent product.
Gents (and ladies) ... So I don't mislead anyone, the Trinity also does a great job on music - kick drums are presented with authority and percussion, bass guitar and Cello are also excellent.

When I mentioned this fun factor ... The Trinity gives the impression of VERY good macro-dynamics ... with no signs of compression on loud, spectacular passages. :)
Craig, I've been waiting and wondering when will you post the points score of the latest Trinity sub that received glowing reviews?
Foamfan ... We need to run the GP session on it .. which we plan on doing after the Elemental Designs A7-900 arrives.

It will be late August before we are done ... but for a music and overall listening, the Trinity has done a great job.

unfortunately, the SVS seems to be completely dead.

And it looks like it will be a Def Tech vs. JL Audio test for a while.

Here is the Fathom on the machines scene in our upstairs, hard to fill room.

Here is the same scene on the Def Tech:

The Def Tech is one fantastic home theater subwoofer ... no single sub has subjectively shaken this room on WOTW like the Def Tech did ... it was absolutely menacing.

The Def Tech's testing is done ... and it scored 97 points. It is an excellent subwoofer, and delivered over 110 dB in room from 20 Hz and up. This in room test data basically shows that there are no scenes that the Trinity will compress at anything close to reference levels.

It would have scored even higher had it been more articulate on music, and delivered more bass below 20 Hz.

For many, though, the Trinity will be the perfect sub ... Def Tech has a HUGE dealer network, and auditions should be easily gotten.

It is also a sub that is fun to have in one's system ... I am thoroughly enjoying this beast.

Another plus is it is impossible to make a Trinity to bottom, or make a bad noise. This is something that most reviewers ignore, but as with most really good designs, the Trinity will keep you out of trouble.

Want to show off to your friends during the Olyphant scene in "Return of the King"? ... Go for it.

And the Pod race scene from Phantom Menace is almost scary.

Here is the latest summary ...

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
Def Tech Trinity: 97 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Acculine A-sub: 85 points
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Speaking of the Trinity ... The 97 score is definitely warranted. We watched a couple more movies last night, and it is just plain a GREAT subwoofer.

IF anyone is interested in getting a Trinity, drop me a PM. I have a source for them, and anything else in the Def Tech line.

I have no financial interest - but rather will just put you in contact with the dealer.

Craigsub- How would you compare the A-sub to the HSU STF-2 purely for HT? Thanks.

David HTguy ... The Hsu is an excellent subwoofer, both it and the Asub are great bang for the buck values. I have never done a side by side, but based on experience, they would be pretty close.

I've been digging around trying to find more information on the Asub and haven't been able to find anything.

Does anyone have a manufacturer's link?

I've been digging around trying to find more information on the Asub and haven't been able to find anything.

Does anyone have a manufacturer's link?

I will do my best ... It is a sub being sold by The Audio Insider. When I ordered some speakers for testing earlier in the summer, Jon Lane asked if I would like to try this 10 inch ported subwoofer. As it sells for $289, and looked like it had possibilities, why not ?

They are planning on ramping up production on it .. though I am a bit disappointed it is not coming out until November. I changed the rating to provisional, as it is not available for sale for at least 2 more months.

Here is a link to the product page:

Asub (http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=68)

I will do my best ... It is a sub being sold by The Audio Insider. When I ordered some speakers for testing earlier in the summer, Jon Lane asked if I would like to try this 10 inch ported subwoofer. As it sells for $289, and looked like it had possibilities, why not ?

They are planning on ramping up production on it .. though I am a bit disappointed it is not coming out until November. I changed the rating to provisional, as it is not available for sale for at least 2 more months.

Here is a link to the product page:

Asub (http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=68)

Craig:
Is this a new product, that is currently out of stock due to demand? Internal power verses outboard?

Ian

The SVS is fixed ... They found a pinched lead from a transformer. I asked them to follow up with confirmation, but the components of the amp are all fine.

SVS put a new amp in, and kept the old one to check over.

Service was first rate, as usual. :)

Cool - glad to hear SVS quickly diagnosed and fixed the problem. :) And good thing they didn't find beer bottles in it! :p

21X18X8 room
considering these two subs
hsu vtf2 mkIII or
eD a3-300 can get it from a local craigslist person for 400
movies and games only some rap music sometimes.
craig which would you think would be better to get.

Craig:
Is this a new product, that is currently out of stock due to demand? Internal power verses outboard?

Ian

It is a pretty new product ... and is a pretty normal sub, plate amp on the back ... both speaker and line level inputs, too.

What amazes me is the spl levels the A sub is capable of, with a speaker sensitivity of 88db, and an RMS rating of only 100 watts.

Ian :eek:

What amazes me is the spl levels the A sub is capable of, with a speaker sensitivity of 88db, and an RMS rating of only 100 watts.

Ian :eek:

Ian, if the ratings are honest, a 100 watt amp will deliver 108 dB from an 88 (edit ... typo, "dB, not watt... sheesh, Craig) sensitive speaker.

In conversations with Jon Lane, he was very frank about "watts" ratings from must subwoofer amps.

This amp will deliver a true 100 watts for a long term period ... not just a few seconds.

Without getting carried away, "watts" from the plate amp is probably the most hyped aspect of a subwoofer's specs.

Craigsub:

David HTguy ... The Hsu is an excellent subwoofer, both it and the Asub are great bang for the buck values. I have never done a side by side, but based on experience, they would be pretty close.

I noticed that the HSU is down firing, and the A-sub is front firing. I read the posts I could find on the difference between the two, and for the most part the difference does not seem to matter. At this level of sub would this make a difference? Any difference in room placement? I am thinking about putting the sub behind a couch. For that type of placement, it seems like a down firing sub would be better? Thanks.

Craigsub:



I noticed that the HSU is down firing, and the A-sub is front firing. I read the posts I could find on the difference between the two, and for the most part the difference does not seem to matter. At this level of sub would this make a difference? Any difference in room placement? I am thinking about putting the sub behind a couch. For that type of placement, it seems like a down firing sub would be better? Thanks.

The smallest wavelength a sub reproduces is about 14 feet (80 Hz), forward or down firing is not really going to be an issue, even behind a couch.

Yeah, what is the diff between down and front firing? :confused:

Yeah, what is the diff between down and front firing? :confused:

With decent carpentry skills, about 90 degrees. :D

With decent carpentry skills, about 90 degrees. :D
Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck... :p

what are you doing posting here craig?! start testing/listening! :)

Hi Craig,
That trinity seamed to impress you, would you pick it over the fathom for just movies or would you still take the fathom? I can't wait for the a7-900 to be tested.

Hi Craig,
That trinity seamed to impress you, would you pick it over the fathom for just movies or would you still take the fathom? I can't wait for the a7-900 to be tested.

That would depend on the movie, and also the room.

The A7-900 ... will be fun. :D

Hi Craig,
That trinity seamed to impress you, would you pick it over the fathom for just movies or would you still take the fathom?

That would depend on the movie, and also the room.
Sounds like a polite "No" to me. ;)

The SVS is fixed ... They found a pinched lead from a transformer. I asked them to follow up with confirmation, but the components of the amp are all fine.

SVS put a new amp in, and kept the old one to check over.

Service was first rate, as usual. :)

Glad to see things worked out, but knew they would SVS is a top notch company. Can't wait to see your test results, my first pair should ship tomorrow. I'll have another 2 or 3 coming in a month or two depending on travel.

speaking of the trinity, if you would like to hear 6 trinity's in action, check out this streaming concert from the trinity church. for organ lovers, this is a must see. check out this guys feet on the first song and how fast they move. i've never seen anything like it. he is AMAZING

http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/calendar/index.php?event_id=40478

click "watch now"

i have spoken with people who have heard and played this organ and obviously, this highly compressed stream does not do the organ justice

trinity organ uses 6 trinity subs and the top end uses 82 def tech BP-10s with crown amps

i love the "rank" he switches into at the very end of the first song that he finishes off with his feet

He is amazing. Imagine what he could do if the bench had a seat belt.

Bet he can't rub his stomach and pat his head at the same time.

Ian, if the ratings are honest, a 100 watt amp will deliver 108 dB from an 88 (edit ... typo, "dB, not watt... sheesh, Craig) sensitive speaker.

In conversations with Jon Lane, he was very frank about "watts" ratings from must subwoofer amps.

This amp will deliver a true 100 watts for a long term period ... not just a few seconds.

Without getting carried away, "watts" from the plate amp is probably the most hyped aspect of a subwoofer's specs.

I agree. Even power ratings expressed in RMS (continuous) have very little merit, since they don't include such measurements as the FR and distortion limits with their specifications.

Ian

The Ultra is doing nicely, guys. It is proof that a properly conceived and built ported sub can match the taut sound of a good sealed sub.

The differences between it and the Trinity are immediately felt on some bass tracks.

The Ultra is definitely a lot more like a Fathom, deep, visceral bass that one feels.

It will take a few days to put all this together, but the Ultra is the best ported subwoofer I have heard, and it rivals the Fathom in articulation.

Is it as good as the Fathom ? We are supposed to have a very rainy weekend. Should that occur, look for lots of tests and graphs this weekend. :)

Is it as good as the Fathom ?
That is the question on everyone's mind. :)

We are supposed to have a very rainy weekend. Should that occur, look for lots of tests and graphs this weekend. :)
Okay, everyone... start doing your best rain-dance. ;)

...the Ultra is the best ported subwoofer I have heard...

That's quite a statement! I guess when it is sub sell-off time, the Ultra stays?

I auditioned the Fathom 113 in my theater, and I can honestly say it was amazing. Having heard several large arrays of PB12/2p and 4 of Mark Seaton's dual 15 driver subs in room I know what insane bass is like. The F113 really puts out...

But for the price I decided to go with the PB13u's the first pair do to arrive any day now. Craigs statements make me feel good about my choice. There is however no doubt in my mind that 4 F113s would be amazing ;) but then I could buy eight PB13s for that haha...

I auditioned the Fathom 113 in my theater, and I can honestly say it was amazing.

But for the price I decided to go with the PB13...
And that's the ticket right there. The price.

If the price were lower on the F113, I'd buy one today! ;)

I auditioned the Fathom 113 in my theater, and I can honestly say it was amazing. Having heard several large arrays of PB12/2p and 4 of Mark Seaton's dual 15 driver subs in room I know what insane bass is like. The F113 really puts out...

But for the price I decided to go with the PB13u's the first pair do to arrive any day now. Craigs statements make me feel good about my choice. There is however no doubt in my mind that 4 F113s would be amazing ;) but then I could buy eight PB13s for that haha...

hey don, how do you have your 4 pb13u's set up in your room?

are they exclusively for the LFE channel only or do you have other channels mixed in with them?

. . . There is however no doubt in my mind that 4 F113s would be amazing ;) but then I could buy eight PB13s for that haha...

Also, one could buy an SMS-1 or 2496DEQ/REW room EQ system and room treatments for the money saved even on one unit.

Right now I have two on the way, the intent is to have an array of five PB13U's they will only do LFE. In the near future I will purchase a Dolby LAKE 8x8 and a QSC-DSP-30. The LAKE will handle the mains, and the DSP-30 will handle the subs. I'm doing 7.1 so the LAKE would only have one channel left, hence the DSP-30. I'm purchasing the LAKE and the DSP-30 so if I feel the need I can add subwoofers in my columns to handle more upper base in the back of the room.

Pretty much over kill, hell I already have issues with my RS1 PJ's lens these PB13U's are going to vibrate the thing to death :).

GGUNNELL - My room is already fully treated top to bottom have a look at the link. I've even had it modeled.

Pretty much over kill...

Ya think? :D

I like it, though. You make guys like me seem sane.

And that's the ticket right there. The price.

If the price were lower on the F113, I'd buy one today! ;)


They have to be competitive to keep product selling. With several very good subs coming out, its only a matter of time before you see a price drop.

And that's the ticket right there. The price.

If the price were lower on the F113, I'd buy one today! ;)

Like all gear there are diminishing returns in performance but for what it does the Fathom is well worth the extra price. I've been running an F113 with a pair of DD-18s and that trio produces the finest bass I have had in my HT. Cheaper toys would work but not as well. :D

With several very good subs coming out, its only a matter of time before you see a price drop.
I thought about that too... and I hope you're right! :)

I've been running an F113 with a pair of DD-18s and that trio produces the finest bass I have had in my HT. Cheaper toys would work but not as well. :D
I dunno... sounds like the new Ultra may give the F113 a run for it's money. And in this case, it's a lot of money. ;)

Right now I have two on the way, the intent is to have an array of five PB13U's they will only do LFE. In the near future I will purchase a Dolby LAKE 8x8 and a QSC-DSP-30. The LAKE will handle the mains, and the DSP-30 will handle the subs. I'm doing 7.1 so the LAKE would only have one channel left, hence the DSP-30. I'm purchasing the LAKE and the DSP-30 so if I feel the need I can add subwoofers in my columns to handle more upper base in the back of the room.

Pretty much over kill, hell I already have issues with my RS1 PJ's lens these PB13U's are going to vibrate the thing to death :).

GGUNNELL - My room is already fully treated top to bottom have a look at the link. I've even had it modeled.

when you say "an array of five pb13u's", do you mean that all 5 will be stacked on top of one another?

not familiar with dolby lake 8x8 or the QSC DSP 30, did a quick search and looks like it's some nice pro sound processing with parametric EQ, very nice :D

i've been looking at a new receiver, the denon 3808 which has the built in Audyssey but only goes down to 63hz on each channel. i'm sure the Audyssey is a toy compared to the dolby lake and the QSC:o

i had this crazy idea (only lasted for about a minute or 2) of putting a sms-1 on each channel but that could get pretty expensive

i've been looking at a new receiver, the denon 3808 which has the built in Audyssey but only goes down to 63hz on each channel.

OTK, I don't think that is true about Audyssey only going down to 63hz. If you are looking at the graphic equalizer screen on the receiver, that only represents the manual EQ controls, not the Audyssey filters. The Audyssey filters are far more numerous and complex than what you see on the manual EQ screen.

Audyssey will EQ your entire bass range. The problem is that if you don't care for the results of the auto-EQ, there isn't much you can do about it other than bypass it.


Edit: Let me just add this: What the Audyssey can do to EQ and time-align the entire system is terrific. It really sharpens up the imaging. You still may want something else in addition to Audyssey for the sub. Consider the Behringer 1124. It is very powerful for under $100 and can control 2 channels (2 subs) independently.

I dunno... sounds like the new Ultra may give the F113 a run for it's money. And in this case, it's a lot of money. ;)

Without having spent time with one its tough to say. Looking at the specs its definitely an upgrade over my old PC Ultra but its still a vented sub with pretensions of being a sealed powerhouse. Somehow I doubt it would have the sound quality of either of my currently favourite subs, the Fl113 or the DD-18. :cool:

Audyssey has a really good product I am considering it as well since it's half the cost of the LAKE 8x8. All 5 subs will be side by side behind my screen wall, not stacked.

Without having spent time with one its tough to say. Looking at the specs its definitely an upgrade over my old PC Ultra but its still a vented sub with pretensions of being a sealed powerhouse. Somehow I doubt it would have the sound quality of either of my currently favourite subs, the Fl113 or the DD-18.

John - if you want you can come by my place (Richmond Hill) to have a listen to the new Ultra, I'm having a hell of a time trying to set the darn thing up which I'm sure you can help with! Ha! :D

John - if you want you can come by my place (Richmond Hill) to have a listen to the new Ultra, I'm having a hell of a time trying to set the darn thing up which I'm sure you can help with! Ha! :D

Well I am eager to hear one. Sunday works for me if you want to PM your coordinates. What's the big deal with installing one? Or was that a sarcasm. :)

John - if you want you can come by my place (Richmond Hill) to have a listen to the new Ultra, I'm having a hell of a time trying to set the darn thing up which I'm sure you can help with! Ha! :D

Hey PBC,
I have a pair of F113s and am up in Richmond Hill - a friend of John's to boot! Can I come too? :)

OTK, I don't think that is true about Audyssey only going down to 63hz. If you are looking at the graphic equalizer screen on the receiver, that only represents the manual EQ controls, not the Audyssey filters. The Audyssey filters are far more numerous and complex than what you see on the manual EQ screen.

Audyssey will EQ your entire bass range. The problem is that if you don't care for the results of the auto-EQ, there isn't much you can do about it other than bypass it.


Edit: Let me just add this: What the Audyssey can do to EQ and time-align the entire system is terrific. It really sharpens up the imaging. You still may want something else in addition to Audyssey for the sub. Consider the Behringer 1124. It is very powerful for under $100 and can control 2 channels (2 subs) independently.

thanks for the info mike

Audyssey has a really good product I am considering it as well since it's half the cost of the LAKE 8x8. All 5 subs will be side by side behind my screen wall, not stacked.

awesome :cool:

Doing the happy subwoofer dance.

Just called BAX the freight company that SVS shipped my subs by today. They said that I should have them by 5:00 PM tomorrow. Can't wait... gawd I can't wait I've been with out subs for almost 1 month now.

Doing the happy subwoofer dance.

Just called BAX the freight company that SVS shipped my subs by today. They said that I should have them by 5:00 PM tomorrow. Can't wait... gawd I can't wait I've been with out subs for almost 1 month now.

nice, are the other 3 on order?

Not yet but probably shortly after I get these two setup. I have a long stretch of business travel ahead of me. Thank gawd it got push back one week so I can play with these two.

Anyone seen this? :eek:10 subs
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9773690-1.html?tag=recentPosts

Anyone seen this? :eek:10 subs
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9773690-1.html?tag=recentPosts

OK, craigsub...order one up!...:D

If they'd sell that enclosure loaded with 10" coaxials it would be the ultimate surround speaker for large venues.

Oh, ya, well checkout this little project this guy is working on using Elemental Designs sub's its gonna be the same concept only using 100 subs, haha...

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40570

Oh, ya, well checkout this little project this guy is working on using Elemental Designs sub's its gonna be the same concept only using 100 subs, haha...

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40570

some people are just crazy

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/giggle.gif

some people are just crazy

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/giggle.gif

<---- crazy and proud of it:cool: /me fires up the chainsaw!

Anyone seen this? :eek:10 subs
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9773690-1.html?tag=recentPosts

That's just buckin futs! Looks like a giant underwater mine... probably sounds like one, too.

That's just buckin futs! Looks like a giant underwater mine... probably sounds like one, too.

HAHA...it cracked the seam between the wall and ceiling in our old office space...every single one of them.

We fired it up one weekday and the ladies that worked next door in the kitchen place came over to make sure we didn't have an elephant running around.

HAHA...it cracked the seam between the wall and ceiling in our old office space...every single one of them.

We fired it up one weekday and the ladies that worked next door in the kitchen place came over to make sure we didn't have an elephant running around.

what did you fire it up with? a movie, test tones? something else?

1812 overture? :)

what did you fire it up with? a movie, test tones? something else?

All of the above.

When the ladies freaked out, I think it was something like 15Hz. It's fun watching things just fall off walls.

Chris - Are you guys REALLY selling that thing ? And, if you are, why wasn't I told about this when I ordered the 435 pound beast ? :p:D

Chris - Are you guys REALLY selling that thing ? And, if you are, why wasn't I told about this when I ordered the 435 pound beast ? :p:D

Elemental Designs D1 - Dodecasub
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=607


http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39157&page=1&pp=10

Chris - Are you guys REALLY selling that thing ? And, if you are, why wasn't I told about this when I ordered the 435 pound beast ? :p:D

Because in sheer normal use output, the A7-900 will come soooo damn close to that thing...and ummm.....I don't have a real reason after that. That and if I get something into your hands, I want it to be something that relatively sane people will buy(we've actually sold a few A7-900s already).

The building of a dodecahedron of that size = a nightmare x5. Accuracy needs to be insane or else you end up with something that can't go together.

Combine a $2500 sub box with an amp that will run it(at least 2000W) and most relatively sane to mildly insane people will shy away. It takes a special type of crazy to want that thing.

It is really awesome though in dipole where about 10~15' away the bass becomes pretty much non-existant. Then you wire it into monopole and destroy something.

Looks like the Design Acoustics D12 from 30 years ago that was a full range speaker with (1) 10" woofer, (1) 5" midranges and (10) tweeters that was stand mounted or could be hung from the ceiling.

I'd like to see a pair of those monster subs hung from the ceiling. OUCH

Oh yeah I love these babies...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889659&page=5

Elemental Designs D1 - Dodecasub
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=607


http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39157&page=1&pp=10


That thing looks like something out of a scifi movie. Are you sure you don't have any aliens hiding out in it?


Ian :D

Oh yeah I love these babies...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889659&page=5

hooked up yet?

don't ya just love new stuff?

:D:D

Yeah... not fully into the system yet but they are amazing. I had a Paradigm Servo 15" v2 and the F113 playing at same time before and these are better than those two were even when played together. I can't wait to see what the tests show.

Yeah... not fully into the system yet but they are amazing. I had a Paradigm Servo 15" v2 and the F113 playing at same time before and these are better than those two were even when played together. I can't wait to see what the tests show.

i'd be curious to see if you get a full 6db bump with 2 of them firing right next to each other

:D

Yeah... not fully into the system yet but they are amazing. I had a Paradigm Servo 15" v2 and the F113 playing at same time before and these are better than those two were even when played together. I can't wait to see what the tests show.My first thought was that one sounded phenomenal, so I imagine duals are amazing...How do you mean better? SQ, impact...I know it's first blush, but give us your thoughts.

i'd be curious to see if you get a full 6db bump with 2 of them firing right next to each other

:D

Mine are co-located and I'm getting 6dB above what my previous ultra/2 could get at 20Hz and 12dB at 30Hz.

My first thought was that one sounded phenomenal, so I imagine duals are amazing...How do you mean better? SQ, impact...I know it's first blush, but give us your thoughts.


A few words I can think of presence, impact, fullness, depth, articulate, sonically insane, and throaty. The F113 played loud, hard and clean. The Paradigm Servo 15 v2 was no slouch but it didn't bring it like the F113. I have not gotten this thing dialed in but I can say I have no regrets, I worried that it would not impress me as much as PB12/2s. I can't wait to add more Muhahahahahah

Remember this is my impressions so far, I'm not a expert at measuring but this is an impressive sub. Hell two for the price of one F113, no brainer.

A few words I can think of presence, impact, fullness, depth, articulate, sonically insane, and throaty.
But do you like it?

;)

Once the smoke settles with the PB13-Ultra, I would like to hear more about how it objectively compares to the F113.

A few words I can think of presence, impact, fullness, depth, articulate, sonically insane, and throaty. The F113 played loud, hard and clean. The Paradigm Servo 15 v2 was no slouch but it didn't bring it like the F113. I have not gotten this thing dialed in but I can say I have no regrets, I worried that it would not impress me as much as PB12/2s. I can't wait to add more Muhahahahahah

Remember this is my impressions so far, I'm not a expert at measuring but this is an impressive sub. Hell two for the price of one F113, no brainer.

He he yes the Fathom f113 is one heck of a great sub,you get compactness(not that I care so much anymore about sub size),built quality very few ...overpriced snooty subs can match and performance to put a smile on any audiophile face.

Once the smoke settles with the PB13-Ultra, I would like to hear more about how it objectively compares to the F113.

Seeing how they live so close to each other, if Steve (pbc), Asher (the bogg) and myself can connect it would be worthwhile to bring one of Ashers fl113s to Steves for a side by side. I'll help carry the fathom Asher.:)

Once the smoke settles with the PB13-Ultra, I would like to hear more about how it objectively compares to the F113.
Here's what I'd like to know from Craig:

If the PB-13Ultra and the F113 were the exact same price... which one would he buy, and why?

Here's what I'd like to know from Craig:

If the PB-13Ultra and the F113 were the exact same price... which one would he buy, and why?That's still apples and oranges for me...

If the F113 were the same price as the Ultra13 makes sense, cuz if the U13 was the same price as the Fathom, I'd have to pass on both...:p

That's still apples and oranges for me...

If the F113 were the same price as the Ultra13 makes sense, cuz if the U13 was the same price as the Fathom, I'd have to pass on both...:p
Fair enough. :)

Let's put it this way... if either could be bought for $1,500 -- but you could only buy one -- which would it be?

Fair enough. :)

Let's put it this way... if either could be bought for $1,500 -- but you could only buy one -- which would it be?That works...and it's not about price, it's about commitment :D.

Can you feel the love... or is that just Bass?

If you just hit a $300.00 million Powerball lottery and were having a ménage à trois with Eva Mendes, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos and Pamela Anderson on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and every other Friday... but you could only buy one -- which would it be?

With the conditional understanding that too much is never enough of course. ;)

Eva Mendes

If you just hit a $300.00 million Powerball lottery and were having a ménage à trois with Eva Mendes, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos and Pamela Anderson on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and every other Friday... but you could only buy one -- which would it be?

With the conditional understanding that too much is never enough of course. ;)

who the hell would care about subwoofers at that point, LOL

If you just hit a $300.00 million Powerball lottery and were having a ménage à trois with Eva Mendes, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos and Pamela Anderson on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and every other Friday... but you could only buy one -- which would it be?

With the conditional understanding that too much is never enough of course. ;)

Based on your list, Eva Mendes :D

Rebecca Romijn-Stamos, no doubt.

Eva Mendez, Pam is washed up. Plus not fond of the Fake boobs and Hepatitis.

you guys misunderstood his question ... you are already having a "ménage à trois" with the 3 ladies.

I think he's asking which sub you'd pick ... in which case, otk's answer is the best.

you have 3 ladies like that, and you're worrying about subs?! what are you? nerds?! :)

Eva Mendez baby!

But there must be something else to do when Eva is out. oh yeah, turn up the volume.

Craig, PLEASE give us something. The conversation is bordering on inane.:rolleyes:

you have 3 ladies like that, and you're worrying about subs?! what are you? nerds?! :)

...but you'll be thinking about the subs in the morning. :D:D

Nothing like a trip to the "Theater of the Absurd".

"What do I know about man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes."
-Samuel Beckett

---And now for something completely different---- (A subwoofer Question)

How do these new subs compare to an old classic like the M&K 5000 (or similar)?
Would an "average" person be able to tell the difference? Would it be worth considering replacing an old sub with one of the higher rated new ones, or are the differences too subtle? Given the prices, if I do this, would prefer to stay below $1500. Pretty much leaves the SVS (still awaiting new Ultra rating) and HSU offerings. Would also consider a BK Monolith sub at 400GBP, seems well rated ($800 USD plus shipping across the pond). My K-horns (I assume) are certainly good down to 50, maybe even 40 Hz. But then again, the .1 in 5.1 is a discreet channel.

My room: 17 X 40 x 13 (150 year old New Orleans French Quarter "Slave Quarter")
My rig: Outlaw 990 pre/pro, MC-240 tube amp, Outlaw 750 amp, Adcom GFA 535 amp,
My speakers: Klipsch Heritage 2CH: Klipschorns, Academy center, Heresy surrounds

Thanx in advance for your advice

Thank You! for this listing. Had it not been for this thread and I would of never discovered the SVS PB 10.

It may be a bit before we hear anything new from Craig. He and Wiild are having a go on "The Lovely 5400" thread in DIY.

---And now for something completely different---- (A subwoofer Question)

How do these new subs compare to an old classic like the M&K 5000 (or similar)?
Would an "average" person be able to tell the difference? Would it be worth considering replacing an old sub with one of the higher rated new ones, or are the differences too subtle? Given the prices, if I do this, would prefer to stay below $1500. Pretty much leaves the SVS (still awaiting new Ultra rating) and HSU offerings. Would also consider a BK Monolith sub at 400GBP, seems well rated ($800 USD plus shipping across the pond). My K-horns (I assume) are certainly good down to 50, maybe even 40 Hz. But then again, the .1 in 5.1 is a discreet channel.

My room: 17 X 40 x 13 (150 year old New Orleans French Quarter "Slave Quarter")
My rig: Outlaw 990 pre/pro, MC-240 tube amp, Outlaw 750 amp, Adcom GFA 535 amp,
My speakers: Klipsch Heritage 2CH: Klipschorns, Academy center, Heresy surrounds

Thanx in advance for your advice

The M&K 5000 was a terrific sub, especially with Klipschorns. Until 3 years ago, I had K-horns in our basement theater, and the M&K's dynamics match pretty well with them.

Drop MKtheater a line here - he has hornloaded subs, and they might be the perfect solution for a large room such as yours, especially with the Klipsch.

It may be a bit before we hear anything new from Craig. He and Wiild are having a go on "The Lovely 5400" thread in DIY.

Yes, only in that forum can one compliment a product and be attacked for doing so.

I do have a report coming on my DIY project ... In fact, I am hoping for pics this morning.

It may be a bit before we hear anything new from Craig. He and Wiild are having a go on "The Lovely 5400" thread in DIY.

oooooo, thanks for the heads-up

i loves me some dysfunction :D:D

now, let's see, where did i put that DIY link

Thankfully, I'm wrong once again:)

Thankfully, I'm wrong once again:)

Pics will be up this morning ... along with some listening reports. I will also be doing the usual "WOTW" graph today ... so guys can see what she will do against the Ultra.

I am eagerly awaiting your reports, Craig! Obviously, it won't sway my decision on my ownership of the PB13-U, but I just want to see how it stacks up against the Fathom!

Can anyone tell me how the eD A7-600 stacks up to the competiton?


Or more specifically, the SVS PB-13Ultra?

The A7-600 has dual 12" woofers and a 1300W amp.....at only $1100, I wonder if any Sub can match it at close to that price?


Craig?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=104

Here is the Dual 15 inch Creative Sounds SDX-15 sealed subwoofer and the PB13 Ultra ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_2040.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_2041.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_2042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_2043.jpg

Can anyone tell me how the eD A7-600 stacks up to the competiton?


Or more specifically, the SVS PB-13Ultra?

The A7-600 has dual 12" woofers and a 1300W amp.....at only $1100, I wonder if any Sub can match it at close to that price?


Craig?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=104

The A5-350 for $1200 per pair looks like the better eD choice. Then there is the new Castle from Epik for $1200 .. a single 15, but it looks pretty potent.

Both would be tough competition for the Ultra. Well, at least on paper. :)

Back to the SDX-15 sealed subwoofer. My total cost in this guy, including the Amp and EQ are as follows:

Enclosure ...... $425
Dual Drivers ... $580
EQ ................$300
Amp ..............$350

Total $1655 including a 10 band parmetric EQ and the option to add a second sub for $1000 ... the cost of the drivers and the enclosure. I have one unused amp channel, and the parametric EQ is already here.

Of course, you could build the enclosure for less $$$, should you so desire.

This subwoofer is every bit as musical as the Fathom .. I am listening to Randy Brecker's "Some Funk Skunk" now, and this requires a very agile sub.

No disappointment there .. and later, I will run the "machines emerge" scene from WOTW.

Craig...I know some don't like the finish on the SDX-15 sealed sub, but I do. I have been toying with the idea of making a sub using one of the Rythmik kits, and I was wondering who made the enclosure for you.

Craig...I know some don't like the finish on the SDX-15 sealed sub, but I do. I have been toying with the idea of making a sub using one of the Rythmik kits, and I was wondering who made the enclosure for you.

Curtis ... It comes from Elemental Designs. They can build pretty much anything you want them to.

If you are thinking of building a sub, ask them about their 18 inch driver in a sealed cabinet with the 1300 watt plate amp. It is another alternative to consider.

Curtis ... It comes from Elemental Designs. They can build pretty much anything you want them to.

If you are thinking of building a sub, ask them about their 18 inch driver in a sealed cabinet with the 1300 watt plate amp. It is another alternative to consider.Did eD design and build the cabinet, or build it to your specs?

Will they design something with a nicer finish?

Did eD design and build the cabinet, or build it to your specs?

A little of each ... I gave them the interior volume needed and driver parameters, and the guys put that info into the box design.

Ok ... So I did about 12 % and they 88% ... :D

Will they design something with a nicer finish?

No, but if you squint and leave the lights off, they look ok. I call it the Rosie Odonnel effect. :eek:

amen lol... gotta love that "truck liner" look in your living room!

No, but if you squint and leave the lights off, they look ok. I call it the Rosie Odonnel effect. :eek:
You'd hafta squint pretty darn hard...

You'd hafta squint pretty darn hard...

For the sub ... or Rosie ?

dear god, we've gone from having a ménage à trois with Eva Mendes, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos and Pamela Anderson to squinting at rosie odonnell in the dark

:eek::eek:

:)

Curtis ... It comes from Elemental Designs. They can build pretty much anything you want them to.

If you are thinking of building a sub, ask them about their 18 inch driver in a sealed cabinet with the 1300 watt plate amp. It is another alternative to consider.
Thanks.

Just don't know if I want to go any bigger than the 12" Rythmik.....don't have the space some of you guys have.

dear god, we've gone from having a ménage à trois with Eva Mendes, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos and Pamela Anderson to squinting at rosie odonnell in the dark

:eek::eek:

:)

Yes, but for the subwoofer (and probably Rosie), winning $300 million in the lottery is not necessary ... :D

hey craig, would you ever do an IB ?

Here is the machines emerging on WOTW on the DIY with twin SDX-15's ... my favorite subwoofer torture test.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/SDX15WOTW.jpg

Same scene on the Fathom 113 ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/WOTWJL.jpg

what is the top sub?

what is the top sub?

Oops ... it is fixed. :o

hey craig, would you ever do an IB ?

I had a long talk with my wife about this.

Does the word VETO ring a bell ? :eek:

Does the word VETO ring a bell ? :eek:
Isn't he that guy from The Sopranos?

Okay, Craig....

the weekend.... is.... over....

Yeah I can't wait to see what the numbers say. I what some chapters from Return of the King and WOTW today. I've never had issues with rattles in my room before, well my RS1 vibrated. Now I have problems with one of my doors rattling, and it's solid wood with weather striping. Strangely enough my RS1 does not move.

Sub looks very impressive. I am so glad you went with a stacked look instead of the opposed drivers.

Question, are those graphs done with EQ?

I had a long talk with my wife about this.

Does the word VETO ring a bell ? :eek:

is that that new word they taught bush when the dems took congress last november?

:D

Sub looks very impressive. I am so glad you went with a stacked look instead of the opposed drivers.

Question, are those graphs done with EQ?

Yes, The Fathom is done going through the SMS-1 and the SDX-15 sub is being Eq'ed with a Behringer 2496 ...

Here is the predicted 1 meter response of a pair of SDX-15's in our enclosure ...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/sdxwinisdsweep.jpg

And here is the actual in room response at about 3.5 meters from the subwoofer. This is a really tough room... very small room gain. This is after eq.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/sdxpairsweep.jpg

I just fired up the extended version of Morph the Cat ... this sub is totally dialed in. I have $500 worth of Acculine A3 towers to go with this sub ... about $2000 for everything, and this is nothing short of spectacular.

The bass is effortless, deep, taut, and drop dead accurate.

I just fired up the extended version of Morph the Cat ... this sub is totally dialed in. I have $500 worth of Acculine A3 towers to go with this sub ... about $2000 for everything, and this is nothing short of spectacular.

The bass is effortless, deep, taut, and drop dead accurate.

which sub?

which sub?

The Dual Driver DIY sub ... :)

The "D Cubed". :)

The "D Cubed". :)

If I ever go into production, do you want a byline for the name ? :D

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
Def Tech Trinity: 97 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Acculine A-sub: 85 points (provisional, production to restart in November, 2007)
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Pending subwoofers ...

Def Tech Trinity ... Here and being tested
Elemental Designs A7-900 ... TBD in early August
Creative Sounds DIY project ... TBD in early August
SVS PB13-Ultra ... TBD in mid August
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
AV123 MFW-15 ... Not sure of date
Dana Audio Sub 600
Acculine A-Sub
Who's ready for an update!? :)

I'm ready for an update! :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
Def Tech Trinity: 97 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Acculine A-sub: 85 points (provisional, production to restart in November, 2007)
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Dana Audio 600: 83 points (exceptional musical performer)
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Pending subwoofers ...


Elemental Designs A7-900 ... Being tested now
Creative Sounds DIY project ... Being tested now
SVS PB13-Ultra ... Being tested now
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
AV123 MFW-15 ... Not sure of date
Epik Subwoofers ... The Castle and Conquest ... Not sure of date.

Good stuff, Craig!

If I ever go into production, do you want a byline for the name ? :D
Just glad to know you actually liked it. :) It is much easier than a lot of other subwoofers' names.

what do you think of the a7-900 in the giant room like that? the only place i've heard it was eD's test room which was relatively small

That Epik looks promising? What do you think Craig.
Mike L