Guys ... make sure your mains are off for this - the Rad Shack picks up everything as SPL. Then take the measurements @ one meter from the front of the center of the PB12.

got it....1 meter directly in front of the sub, no speakers on at all besides the subwoofer

there are really 2 beats....we'll call them the high and the LOW (low is the problem)

average on the digital from 1 meter was 99 for the high and 102-103 for the LOW]

Listening position was 89-90 for the high 94-95 for the low

got it....1 meter directly in front of the sub, no speakers on at all besides the subwoofer

there are really 2 beats....we'll call them the high and the LOW (low is the problem)

average on the digital from 1 meter was 100 for the high and 102-103 for the LOW]

Listening position was 89-90 for the high 94-95 for the low

Good ... now note the point at which you hear chuffing for each.

well the HIGHER note doesn't cause any chuffing.......its that LOWEST note that is somewhere in the ballpark of 16-19hz based on the waterfall graph that causes the air to FLY OUT and make a LOT of noise....

_________________________________
Ross.......do it with both the 3.3with turbo and the pb-12nsd if you can :D
------------------------------------------------------

For the sake of testing........can we get some other people to measure their SPL from 1 meter with mains off.....I'd love to see the HSU and other SVS subs numbers from that same scene...
PULSE Chapter 15 Timestamp...1:12:39 to 1:13:00

Guys ... make sure your mains are off for this - the Rad Shack picks up everything as SPL. Then take the measurements @ one meter from the front of the center of the PB12.

I already moved my PB12 back upstairs and now my wife will be home any moment :( so I will have to do this SPL measurement as you describe tomorrow.

well the HIGHER note doesn't cause any chuffing.......its that LOWEST note that is somewhere in the ballpark of 16-19hz based on the waterfall graph that causes the air to FLY OUT and make a LOT of noise....

My bad ... More specifically, at what SPL do you hear the chuffing in the "16-19 Hz" portion ?

When I back off the volume to -22db I can hear the port noise a tiny bit and it measured 83db at LP and 89-90db from 1 meter.

If I back the volume off to -24 the chuff is gone from the listening position (still present at 1meter).....only problem is at these levels so is all the impact and fun

When I back off the volume to -22db I can hear the port noise a tiny bit and it measured 83db at LP and 89-90db from 1 meter.

If I back the volume off to -24 the chuff is gone from the listening position (still present at 1meter).....only problem is at these levels so is all the impact and fun

Ok ... Now turn the sub so the port is facing the wall. See if that helps.

No luck with that either........basically the same amount of port noise....maybe even worse...

Craig I'll tell you the problem with moving the way it faces....I played all the test tones the way the woofer is facing now and it gave me the flattest frequency reponse .....facing out was the best, facing the couch was 2nd, facing the side wall was the 3rd best, facing the rear wall was the worst in terms of flatness...

Isn't that my best option....considering room reponse...


----------------------------

Based on my SPL readings what do you think........Am I underpushing, just right, or over pushing....

I hear ya, just saying that the poster was wondering how the Ultra could only do 103db versus 106db for the VTF. Even if the test was performed in the same room with the same equipment, maybe one sub exhibits different behaviour than another in the same spot due to different FR inherent in the subs, is it possible that one sub was "inches" or a foot away from the other that was measured months before? Ferstler himself mentions in the review that he didn't have the VTF cranked as far as it could go for fear of his house imploding :D . Does that mean he possibly did the same with the Ultra and therefore they weren't level matched, etc. Just saying without doing the two subs at the same time it's difficult to say one will perform at X SPL versus another at X SPL. I'm definately not taking anything away from the HSU sub or defending the Ultra. I don't even own a sub at the moment (sold my old Mirage and looking for a new one), I'd have bought the HSU HO ages ago if they had a nicer enclosure. I know I know, it's the guts that count, not what it looks like. At least, that's what I tell my wife when she sees me with my shirt off in the morning! Unfortunately she's not buying into that either!

But then, it occurs to me I really have no idea what I'm talking about half the time when it comes to subs anyhow! :o



Bgilly, I think you reached 1000 posts in this thread alone!! :p

No worries, I see what you're saying. I thought you were even discounting the idea of a ballpark assessment. Cool :)

No luck with that either........basically the same amount of port noise....maybe even worse...

Craig I'll tell you the problem with moving the way it faces....I played all the test tones the way the woofer is facing now and it gave me the flattest frequency reponse .....facing out was the best, facing the couch was 2nd, facing the side wall was the 3rd best, facing the rear wall was the worst in terms of flatness...

Isn't that my best option....considering room reponse...


----------------------------

Based on my SPL readings what do you think........Am I underpushing, just right, or over pushing....

You need more subwoofer. Another PB12. Dual Fathom 113's. Quit being so cheap ... :D

Speakers all dead on at 75db and the sub is set to show 74-75db on my Radio Shack Digital Level Meter.....74-75db on that meter really means its 77-78db Correct?....


The newer digital meters are much more accurate in the bass region than the analogs. It's within 0.5~1dB for most of the range, needing a boost below 35hz give or take. So if you set the speakers to 75dB with a digital meter, set the sub to 75dB as well if you want it even.

Plus, if he is using Avia, and you are using the receiver tones, the setting on the dial will be 3dB different between your setups.


One possibility I can think of is...
Say person "A" has a few big peaks in the bass response. This skews the calibration because the measured level is picking up the big peaks. So the calibrated level has the peaks at the proper level, but other frequencies lower than reference level.

Person "B" has flatter response, maybe a few peaks that aren't so high, which means that the measured, and therefore calibrated, level will end up being higher on the gain.

Person "A" is set lower because room gain and modes are boosting certain frequencies.

Person A and Person B play a scene at the same volume level on the receiver. Person A, with the large peaks and the sub level lower, doesn't experience the chuffing. But bass is big because of the peaks. Person B, with the relatively smoother response, and therefore, higher sub gain level, is pushing the sub harder to get the same measured SPL level on the test tone. With the sub being pushed harder, more air is being pushed. Hence the chuffing.


Just a possibility...

No luck with that either........basically the same amount of port noise....maybe even worse...

Craig I'll tell you the problem with moving the way it faces....I played all the test tones the way the woofer is facing now and it gave me the flattest frequency reponse .....facing out was the best, facing the couch was 2nd, facing the side wall was the 3rd best, facing the rear wall was the worst in terms of flatness...

Isn't that my best option....considering room reponse...


----------------------------

Based on my SPL readings what do you think........Am I underpushing, just right, or over pushing....

You need more sub - and are also more sensitive to port chuffing than many. We had that here last year at a couple of the shootouts ... some guys notice nothing, while others get annoyed.

Grab dual Fathoms 113's ... :D

Craig after reading the F113 thread today.........I wish I could. That is god's gift to HT fans.

I know I need more sub....I've known that since I played the sub on day 1. I'm just worried that even with 2 that I don't really have enough port area. Especially after hearing what the 3.3 with turbo can do.

With my listening habits and my "ear" for chuffing I might be better suited for something like the PB-12+ which has 3 ports or the 3.3 with turbo, or a 16-46+ with its 3 ports and is already tuned to 16hz.... I've learned the only way to get the DEEP stuff without going the SUPER EXPENSIVE SEALED route (namly the fathom) is to get more port area for more air pushing....

I have no problems parting with my PB_12NSD to get the right sub.......but I don't want to unload it if I don't have to....know what I mean :D


ps........Jai I totally understand your point about the 6db gain in headroom making it so I can really turn down the gain even more, thus not driving each sub as hard, thus reducing port noise......but then I'm left wondering about the Port Area dilemma....

doesn't a slot port minimize port chuffing?

I'm just worried that even with 2 that I don't really have enough port area.

if i'm not mistaken, the JL F113 has no port area (sealed design), and seems to leave all these other subs, turbo or not, in the dust. ;)

i'm not trying to be a d*ck, but the last 3 pages of this thread seem to be mostly discussions about one person's specific situation and sub needs/wants...maybe better handled by PM. i'm looking forward to some more data on perhaps some other subs that were/are going to be tested.

just sayin'.

doesn't a slot port minimize port chuffing?

Actually a flared round port, like a trumpet bell, is optimal to minimize noise.

A lot of slot-port-at-the-bottom-cubical-subs don't have a very low tuning point or very large driver excursion to start with. If you replaced the flared port in the PB12-NSD with a rectangular slot of the same area cut in the MDF you'd have more air noise.

Craig, do you think you may acquire one of the new subs that TC Sounds is supposed to release this year? Was just reading on their site and sounds like they are determined to set all new performance records in a variety of models starting at less than $1,000.

Brad - I am just teasing about the Fathom ... they are a magnificent product, but are a lot of $$$.

I would hold out for the Ultra, so you can explore many options ... and G-star has a good point ... this is a comparative thread. Start saving a few $$$ per week ... in a few months, watch how it adds up, and by then, there will be a LOT of choices for you.

I have a couple of feelers out for subs from Definitive and Sunfire.

Hi guys. I am looking to replace my HSU VTF-2 subwoofer. I am currently looking at the VTF-3 HO with Turbo Charger, or two VTF-2 MKIII's. I am looking to spend $1000-1100 on the whole thing.

My current system:

Outlaw 990 Pre-Amp
Sherbourne 7/2100 Amp
Ascend 340's across the front
Ascend CBM-170's for surround and rear
Monster HTS2500 Surge
Oppo 981HDDV-981
Mitsubishi 62inch HD LCD

The room is rather large, but is subject to change (30Lx 15W x 10H).

What's the story, and is there anything else I would be better-off considering? (I found the VTF-3HO on Craigsub's post).

Thanks much!

Does anyone have any thoughts on how the ACI Titan XL would compare to the other $1000-$1200 subs e.g VTF3-HO, PB12-Ultra, and Axiom EP-500?

Also, what about the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus compared to the other ~$700 subs. they claim that it is not an HSU sub, but it's hard not to think that when Dr. Hsu contributed to the design, it has the variable tuning, and a very similar enclosure size. I just wonder how effiecient that driver is. At $679 with free shipping, and $1199 for two with free shipping, it seems like a great deal.

I nominate this thread for having the most off topic post so far this year. :)

I'm sorry if I pulled us off topic. This thread is about sub performance and rankings. I "thought" that my problem would actually be relevant to this topic because it dealt with SPL at certain frequencies and the performance in general of the PB-12NSD. My intent was not to take this thread in another direction, but rather to add more information about the PB-12NSD through my trials with it. Specifically at the 18hz tuning point and how it was performing at that level with a certain scene from a movie that actually produces that partiular note. In retrospect I see I should have created another thread about this issue......I apologize.

Craig...thank you for taking the time to try to work out that problem with me last night. Ross if we can, maybe we can PM each other or discuss our findings on the phone or something (I'm a verizon customer so maybe we are both on the "in" plan)

You need more sub - and are also more sensitive to port chuffing than many. We had that here last year at a couple of the shootouts ... some guys notice nothing, while others get annoyed.

Grab dual Fathoms 113's ... :D

Or give a couple of these a try... :D


Rythmik 15" servo (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=772392)

Jai ... Once we get into warm weather, a bunch of subs are going outside for a serious measuring session.

Don't forget about that rain you go last summer that sucked. :(

Or give a couple of these a try... :D


Rythmik 15" servo (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=772392)


That's the comparison I am dying to hear! I was considering going with dual Rythmik 15s instead of an F113. I can't seem to get anyone to pin down the output though...

None of the commercial crowd seems to want to try them and not many of the DIY crowd have access to the F113.

Actually a flared round port, like a trumpet bell, is optimal to minimize noise.

A lot of slot-port-at-the-bottom-cubical-subs don't have a very low tuning point or very large driver excursion to start with. If you replaced the flared port in the PB12-NSD with a rectangular slot of the same area cut in the MDF you'd have more air noise.

The real issue is not so much whether its round or slotted but rather whether the ends are flared. If so the geometry of the openings are less important. Because this question about ports keeps coming up I thought I would explain the fluid dynamics of the two again to help see why port noise can be so insiduous and how it can be minimized. Some of you may have seen this explanation before but I think its worth repeating.

As mentioned the port design issue isn't so wasn't so much about slot vs. round as edges vs. flares. Flared slot ports with rounded internal joints (no edges) are very effective in moving air with minimal turbulence, same as a flared cylinder. The slot adds enclosure strength but a properly shelved enclosure with a round port would be just as strong.


Inside the enclosure, air tends to slow down along the four corners of the port causing the air flowing along the middle of it to become more unstable or gusty. The 90 degree angle of many edged slot ports will also create unlinear air velocity (more artifacts) which in turn adds to internal air turbulence. If that isn't enough as this unstable air exits it must flow over another edge creating eddys and more turbulence as it abruptly contacts the stable air boundary outside the opening.

The net result is uneven FR, resonance at higher frequencies which colours the bass, and other noise/distortions. Chuffing may or may not be detected but at high output the effect of these unlinearities will be evident compared to a flared rounded slot or a flared cylindrical port.

The slot port design can be improved by adding flares at both ends but that is more expensive to accomplish with a slot that a round cylinder hence why the cylinder ports are so popular. Flares help by compressing air into the body of the port inside the sub and expanding it upon exit. Because of this compression/expansion of air the length of the port can handle higher inner-port velocities without increasing the mid-section diameter. The angle of the flare is important and it needs to be a minimum of 45Deg along a circular path to achieve this type of airflow. Some people would suggest the flare curve needs to be parabolic but that's another story we don't need to get into right now.

The problem of internal edges also needs to be addressed. It gets expensive but the slot can be very effective if its edges are rounded and its flared. In effect it increases laminar flow causing it to behave much like a cylinder.

If you want raw grunt output and don't mind coloration, less linear FR and some noise use an edgy slot. Rounding the edges and flaring would improve it. Some advocates would even suggest SPL could be greater because of the greater efficiency (less turbulence) of the flared round port but I'm not willing to go that far.


By the way there is also turbulence inside the cylinder port which is another reason why vented subs will always have a characteristic bass sound compared to a sealed alignment. Its just a heck of a lot less than in an edgy slot. I've put my ear against a lot of ports. No question about the audible difference between an unflared edgy slot and a flared cylinder port with similar area openings.

Guys I'd really love an opinion/educated guess on this.

Where would the SVS PC 16-46+ rank on this scale. (HT and Music scores)

I might be close to making a move and this sub really seems to be the front runner in my book....just looking for more information...

Guys I'd really love an opinion/educated guess on this.

Where would the SVS PC 16-46+ rank on this scale. (HT and Music scores)

I might be close to making a move and this sub really seems to be the front runner in my book....just looking for more information...

We had a pair in our basement theater ... great for trolling the deep stuff, but not as dynamic as the 20-39.

You will need at least 2 ... and I still suggest you wait for the new Ultra, rather than even a pair of the 16-46.

2400 cubic feet

16-46+ with an MBM vs just a Single PB-13Ultra or a PC-Ultra13

Price would be about equal when you consider the new ultra is probably going to be around $1300-$1400..

We had a pair in our basement theater ... great for trolling the deep stuff, but not as dynamic as the 20-39.

You will need at least 2 ... and I still suggest you wait for the new Ultra, rather than even a pair of the 16-46.

Why do you say he needs at least 2? In a 2400cubic ft. rom.

You will need at least 2 ... and I still suggest you wait for the new Ultra, rather than even a pair of the 16-46.


Ed assures me that a DUAL 16-46+ set up will beat out the performance of a Single Ultra.......

I'm so TORN!!! I have SUBWOOFER SYNDROME!!!

Ed assures me that a DUAL 16-46+ set up will beat out the performance of a Single Ultra.......

I'm so TORN!!! I have SUBWOOFER SYNDROME!!!

Beat in output sure,get more quality...get the Ultra.

We are talking about Quality, but come on....the 12.3 drivers are AWSOME in themselves...its not like we are talking about a walmart BOLT Lightning Audio driver here...

We are talking about Quality, but come on....the 12.3 drivers are AWSOME in themselves...its not like we are talking about a walmart BOLT Lightning Audio driver here...

No, certainly not. But, the Ultras will be in a league of their own when compared to other SVS products (flagship). There should be a fairly noticable difference in SQ with the Ultra.

We are talking about Quality, but come on....the 12.3 drivers are AWSOME in themselves...its not like we are talking about a walmart BOLT Lightning Audio driver here...

The dB12 or even the newest Plus drivers are not at the same level as the now dare I say legendary TV12 built by TC Sounds.

You know the Klipsch RSW15 woofer is also no Walmart Cheap O Matic woofer from a HTIB,but the JL Audio woofer from the f113 is ...way up there. ;)

I'm learning quickly there is ALWAYS something better.

The current Ultra is better than the 12.3 drivers no doubt.

The new Ultra will be better than even the current Ultra.

I guess what I meant is dual 12.3 drivers being driven together in the same corner and being calibrated correctly and not overdriving them, would have some really great sound quality.

I know that there will always be something better out there........I just lost my access code to Bill Gate's account so I have to be realistic with what I can afford :)

A single 16-46+ in a small/med room will sound pretty darn good I'm betting from what Ed has told me. A DUAL 16-46+ set up will blow my mind and most everyone elses....

Would DUAL Ultra's sound better....HELL YA.....but then again I'd need that access # back :)

The dB12 or even the newest Plus drivers are not at the same level as the now dare I say legendary TV12 built by TC Sounds.

You know the Klipsch RSW15 woofer is also no Walmart Cheap O Matic woofer from a HTIB,but the JL Audio woofer from the f113 is ...way up there. ;)

How big of a difference is there between the 12.2 and 12.3 plus drivers? Weren't the 12.2 drivers built by TC as well?

How big of a difference is there between the 12.2 and 12.3 plus drivers? Weren't the 12.2 drivers built by TC as well?

The 12.2s were TC sounds sourced, the 12.3s are built in house at SVS. There is small SQ improvement with 12.3s and small output increase, 1.0-1.5 dbs.

Ed assures me that a DUAL 16-46+ set up will beat out the performance of a Single Ultra.......

I'm so TORN!!! I have SUBWOOFER SYNDROME!!!

was he talking about the existing ultra or the new one coming out?

The New...

I'm learning quickly there is ALWAYS something better.

The current Ultra is better than the 12.3 drivers no doubt.

The new Ultra will be better than even the current Ultra.

I guess what I meant is dual 12.3 drivers being driven together in the same corner and being calibrated correctly and not overdriving them, would have some really great sound quality.

I know that there will always be something better out there........I just lost my access code to Bill Gate's account so I have to be realistic with what I can afford :)

A single 16-46+ in a small/med room will sound pretty darn good I'm betting from what Ed has told me. A DUAL 16-46+ set up will blow my mind and most everyone elses....

Would DUAL Ultra's sound better....HELL YA.....but then again I'd need that access # back :)


bgillyjcu,
Why are you posting all this crap on Craigsub's ranking thread? It has absolutely nothing to do with his test. Are you gorilla marketing for SVS????

bgillyjcu,

You may pass for an advertiser!

bgillyjcu,

You may pass for an advertiser!

Pot...Kettle...Black! :D

The BIC H-100 is scheduled to be delivered Tuesday ... let the budget wars begin.

Craig,
Is the Danley DTS-20 in your list?
I sure would like your opinions and collective opinions. I will be receiving mine sometime next week or early week after next. I will post my impressions soon after.
-Jai
Here is what I predict :D

Danley DTS-20: 106
JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Danley DTS-20 $2995 unpowered, $4695 powered.

Dear God...

Yeah. I paid $2250 used (powered version) plus another $1000 for shipping back and forth to Danley labs. Is still worth it I bet since now that it has a new driver and no flaws and topped by Danley's blessing and for $3250 worth every penny if it indeed delivers that razor flat 120dB from 20 to 60Hz and incredibly low group delay. I hope it does not disappoint me this time.

The amp is worth only $1000, I don't know why it should be $4695?

Yplus another $1000 for shipping back and forth to Danley labs.

Damn dude I would have thrown it in the back of the truck & hauled it both ways for ya for less than that.

Damn dude I would have thrown it in the back of the truck & hauled it both ways for ya for less than that.
350lbs my friend. I've dealt with loading and unloading it and believe me it is heavy like lead once inside the crate.

350lbs my friend.

LOL Believe me that isn't a problem.

Ironically enough I just had a quote with freight today...600lbs $300 from OH to FL.

Who was the carrier for your 1k roundabout?

Old dominion and Danley labs uses them. That is with a 40% discount BTW :).
This is from Portland, OR (NW) to FL.

This is from Portland, OR (NW) to FL.

Ahh...

Has anyone ever tried a 18 inch pro horn loaded sub that goes down in the 20's?

The H-100 was delivered this afternoon. It will get fired up this evening.

Great, thanks for the update. I had this sub, but am looking forward to your thoughts on it. Considering music and HT I would put it just above or even with the X-Sub.

I predict a 79 for the H100. It's great for music, much like an STF1 with a bigger sub. Craigsub, what are you going to do with all these subs? I suggest making a sub totem pole. J/K :)

craigsub
People often talk about placement of a sub in a room but seem to do the location in one dimension only, I.E. moving it along surface of the floor. Have you ever experimented with elevating a sub a foot or two off the ground to see the effect on standing waves etc? Just a thought.
I enjoy reading about the different subs and how they sound. Great stuff.

The H-100 was DOA. I took the amp off, and the wires are all properly connected. This is one area where either a dealer or Internet Direct would come in handy ... as they would ship a new product immediately, in most cases.

This will involve getting a return authorization via email, returning the sub, and hopefully getting a replacement.

The H-100 was DOA. I took the amp off, and the wires are all properly connected. This is one area where either a dealer or Internet Direct would come in handy ... as they would ship a new product immediately, in most cases.

This will involve getting a return authorization via email, returning the sub, and hopefully getting a replacement.


so what rating number did it get? :D

so what rating number did it get? :D

155 ... The absolute ability to disappear into the music is unmatched ... :cool:

155 ... The absolute ability to disappear into the music is unmatched ... :cool:

I suspect your motives! FOUL FOUL FOUL I CRY. Possibly even fowl. Mmmm....chicken.

The H-100 was DOA. I took the amp off, and the wires are all properly connected. This is one area where either a dealer or Internet Direct would come in handy ... as they would ship a new product immediately, in most cases.

This will involve getting a return authorization via email, returning the sub, and hopefully getting a replacement.
Did you try plugging it in to power, connecting the sub cable, turning it on? Damn rookies. :D :D :D

so what rating number did it get? :D

A big fat ZERO,for the trouble Craig had. Can you hear the BIC ball pen perform...wow its like angels had electric guitars and took some acid. Look at the JL Fathom like excursion,the Fathom like built,the 70lbs driver(uh the whole sub is far from that). :p

Do not flame me,I am a little fragile person. :)

Seriously I want to see how it performs when it works.I know any sub can have a DOA amp plate(I had experienced a few).Just to clear things up

The H-100 was DOA. I took the amp off, and the wires are all properly connected. This is one area where either a dealer or Internet Direct would come in handy ... as they would ship a new product immediately, in most cases.

This will involve getting a return authorization via email, returning the sub, and hopefully getting a replacement. :(


I can't believe this! I've been waiting months and hinting for Craig to do a budget review. Go figure!


Ian :D

I know what happened. The H saw all the other subs in Craig's room and wet itself. We all know water doesn't mix with electronics.
Seriously, I hope the review still gets done. I want to see who the budget champ is.

I want to see who the budget champ is.

Which ever one works. :D

Craigsub,

Check the fuse? Does it have a fuse?

I know what happened. The H saw all the other subs in Craig's room and wet itself. We all know water doesn't mix with electronics.

Understandable. When Craig posted pics of his room with all those lucious subs, I wet myself. :p

Hey can you guys check this out....I have a layout diagram and testing results for my setup. Read post one AND two.......post 2 has the links to diagrams and results

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805503

ps...Craig I'd LOVE your input!!!

Understandable. When Craig posted pics of his room with all those lucious subs, I wet myself. :p :eek:


Ian :D

After reading all 45 pages of this thread I finally decided to get a subwoofer(or should I say convinced my wife to allow it). I picked up the HSU 3.3 w/o Turbo for 699 +75 shipping. I currently have a Klipsch Reference system(RF-3, RC-62, RS-52s, KBS1.1s and a denon avr-2807).

I live in the upper of a duplex so I have never even experienced what a subwoofer sounds like and neither has my wife. Suffice it to say I will not be able to sleep at night until I get this thing...... Going to go with nearfield placement of this thing directly behind our loveseat with sub facing us. Heard we can lower the volume and still get excellent base without rattling the walls off. I am really hoping my neighbor doesn't take a bat to my head....

I was very sad to find out the introductory pricing of 649 was gone and they would not make an exception for me. I did let them know about craigsub and avs influencing my decision.

Seth, if you just have wood framing in the floors, not concrete and steel, you should also buy a SubDude. This will help isolate some of the sound that will be transmitted through the floor to your neighbor. Just Google SubDude and you will find dealers.

His methodology must be flawed for the BIC not to work correctly in his room.
Toss it all out and start over.

Seth, if you just have wood framing in the floors, not concrete and steel, you should also buy a SubDude. This will help isolate some of the sound that will be transmitted through the floor to your neighbor. Just Google SubDude and you will find dealers.

Be sure you get a good return policy. I doubt that much of anything will help with low frequencies other than the near field placement that Seth has already mentioned.

Seth, if you just have wood framing in the floors, not concrete and steel, you should also buy a SubDude. This will help isolate some of the sound that will be transmitted through the floor to your neighbor. Just Google SubDude and you will find dealers.

It is carpeted hardwood floors. Won't that provide the same thing basically?

Be sure you get a good return policy. I doubt that much of anything will help with low frequencies other than the near field placement that Seth has already mentioned.It won't reduce the acoustic transfer, but it will eliminate the mechanical transfer from the box vibrations to the subfloor. Especially if you use spikes that settle through the carpet to the subfloor. This is why I'm glad I live in a single-family house. It would drive me crazy to have something as capable as the VTF-3 and not be able to crank it up. :mad:

After reading all 45 pages of this thread I finally decided to get a subwoofer(or should I say convinced my wife to allow it). I picked up the HSU 3.3 w/o Turbo for 699 +75 shipping. I currently have a Klipsch Reference system(RF-3, RC-62, RS-52s, KBS1.1s and a denon avr-2807).

I live in the upper of a duplex so I have never even experienced what a subwoofer sounds like and neither has my wife. Suffice it to say I will not be able to sleep at night until I get this thing...... Going to go with nearfield placement of this thing directly behind our loveseat with sub facing us. Heard we can lower the volume and still get excellent base without rattling the walls off. I am really hoping my neighbor doesn't take a bat to my head....

I was very sad to find out the introductory pricing of 649 was gone and they would not make an exception for me. I did let them know about craigsub and avs influencing my decision.

Congrats,

I actually saw your other post over at HSU's forum. From everything I have read and heard, should be one heck of a sub. And especially if you have never had a sub before, you are going to be blown away.

It won't reduce the acoustic transfer, but it will eliminate the mechanical transfer from the box vibrations to the subfloor. Especially if you use spikes that settle through the carpet to the subfloor. This is why I'm glad I live in a single-family house. It would drive me crazy to have something as capable as the VTF-3 and not be able to crank it up. :mad:

Well I'll see how it goes with the noise transfer. That pad thing for this size is like 99.00 bucks and it seems more like a gimmic than anything.

I just got married in Sept. We will be buying a house next spring 08. i CANNOT wait until them so I can setup my own HT!!! I will have to make due in the short terms.

Thanks guys. I CANT WAIT!!!!! Anyone know how long it takes to ship out from HSU on average? 24 hours? 3 days?

sethhobrin ... If youe experience is like most of mine have been with Hsu, the sub will arrive the day BEFORE you get your shipping/tracking notice ... :D

And the supplier from whom I purchased the H-100 has already shipped a replacement, not even waiting until they get the DOA unit. That is pretty good service.

Noobie Needs Help!!!

My new dedicated home theater is nearing completion and I'm struggling with all the sub offerings and info overload so this sub choosing adventure is getting quite confusing!!!! Let me give everybody a quick run down of what components I already have.

Rotel RSP-1098 Pre-Pro
Rotel RB-1090 Main amp 2chn
ATI 1504 for surrounds 4chn
Outlaw M-2200 for center chnl
Rocket RS-1000 mains
Rocket RSC-200 center
Rocket RSS-350 dipole side surrounds
Rocket RS-550 rear surrounds

My theater is approx 1900 cu ftandI'm going to treat the room accoustics with bass traps and panels. The room is only 14 ft wide and with a 60" plasma that doesn't leave alot of room for the subs. I've been reading articles by Richard Hardesty that has me leaning towards running 2 subs possibly in stereo off the mains signal instead of the LFE out. His articles actually suggest running sealed subs or smaller driver subs (12" or less) in the stereo config. and running a larger deeper digging sub off the LFE output. My problem is I just don't have the physical space to accomodate all the speakers up front and the side walls are limited as well for various reasons. My budget allows 2-2.5k for subs so I'm kinda confused as to which subs to shoot for. My thoughts are a little scattered so forgive me.... but here's what I'm lookin at

2- HSU 3.3 HO-turbos or
2- Hot Rodded UFW-12
1-BMF (Don't think I can wait that long)
1-Submersive

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Kris

Kris,

Good setup you have,for this setup and from the list of subs you have made,I would get dual HSU VTF3HO/Turbo subs. Very deep bass capabilities and vast output,plus great sound quality.

No matter how you hot rod so to speak a sealed UFW-12 I doubt it will be even close to a VTF3-HO/Turbo down deep.One thing is sure it will look a damn good deal better.

One Submersive may be a good option,sealed with plentry of output and very high sound quality(like a Fathom f113).Here just a guess as I have not heard a Seaton Sound Submersive. Taking into account what the owners say.

With the Rocket 1Ks I would think you have the stereo sub part covered, and what you really need is low bass. Staying with AV123, a BMF would fill the bill.
A new Ultra13 from SVS in 15Hz tune would work -- also a few months away :). Today, I'd probably pick up two 16-46 Plus cylinders.

With the Rocket 1Ks I would think you have the stereo sub part covered, and what you really need is low bass.

That is good advice with the Rocket 1K's. Add a strong bottom feeder.

So if I went with 16-46's would I need something like a MBM nearfield to get that "punch"
I here so much about? Would I need it with the HO's also?? I know alot of this is personal pref. but looking back on my early days of car stereo's and the clean excessive bass I seem to enjoy I'm thinking a little extra headroom wouldn't hurt.I'm not that old yet......I hope!!!!

I'm thinking you can dial up the powered woofers in the 1k's to give you the punch you want. I'd try that first before adding a MBM.

I'll try that Mike. I guess I just haven't really considered the sub part of my towers to be much more than low-mid fillers based on my initial listening sessions in my main living area. I ordered the speakers a couple of months back and un-packed them and set them up in my main living area to make sure they were in good working order (one of the subs were bad so it's a good thing I did). I did nothing but some minor tweaking to the system and was very pleased with the sound improvement over my def-tech bp-30's that I use in my living area but the bass was far from satisfactory. My living area is probably the biggest problem with 11 ft ceilings and is aprrox 18x35 plus opens to the formal dining and foyer areas as well. I was running my sunfire mkII with them but still needed much more but no big deal since thats a secondary listening area. I guess what I'm rambling about is I haven't given them a fair shake as far as tuning, room size, and treatments.

With as many LF drivers as you may end up with. I'd definately get the RS meter and cable to connect to your (decent) sound card -- and download Room EQ wizard and some sine waves. For under $60 and some time invested you'll be able to document what's wrong with what you have now -- that'll help you pick your solution.

IF your room is symmetrical -- no open halls on one side, front corners fairly equal -- and you want a quick solution I'd get two HO's and put one on each side, and x-o to them from the small woofs in the RS1k's -- in other words forget the RS1k powered woofs and replace them with dual HO's. Add $100 for a BFD eq.

Or see what May brings :)

How would two HO's compare to a single BMF or Submersive forgoing the discussion of SPL or how deep each would go rather discussing the subject of TWO very capable subs to ONE super sub. My question revolves around (forgive me if my terminology is wrong) imaging or bass localizing. In my previous home I didn't have a dedicated theater room so my options for speaker placement and treatment were very limited (WAF) so I really have no experience with dual subs but in that arrangement my sunfires location could easily be targeted and I'd like to get away from that and have massive bass but seamlessly coming from everywhere. Is this possible?

How would two HO's compare to a single BMF or Submersive forgoing the discussion of SPL or how deep each would go rather discussing the subject of TWO very capable subs to ONE super sub.?

Only you can tell how it sounds to YOU.

My choice would be 2 subs vs 1 sub.

Is there a place where craig keeps reviews of all of these subs? Or is it just scattered in these forums? I would love to read individual reviews for subs he has tested. Specifically the VTF3 MK3

Only you can tell how it sounds to YOU.

My choice would be 2 subs vs 1 sub.


Same here, when using anything less than an 18" driver. I prefer two subs.

Craig, do you have anything new to report?

Gents ... Unfortunately, I am fighting off a serious virus, and will be out of the loop for a few days.

Gents ... Unfortunately, I am fighting off a serious virus, and will be out of the loop for a few days.

Have yourself a couple of hot totties.... and feel better soon.

Gents ... Unfortunately, I am fighting off a serious virus, and will be out of the loop for a few days.

Chicken soup! ;) Feel better.

Regards,
Ian

For medicinal purposes only. 4 oz Courvoiser VSOP once an hour or more frequently as required. ;)

Get well soon Craig

Guys ... I am off to the hospital ... see you when I get out ... :)

Good Luck Craig. Last time I was "in" my dad snuck in a flask of JD. ;)

-Eli

Guys ... I am off to the hospital ... see you when I get out ... :)

yikes...good luck, bro.

Hmmm . . . the magnet in an MRI machine WOULD make a great subwoofer motor . . .

Get well soon, Craig!

Guys ... I am off to the hospital ... see you when I get out ... :)

Geez, sounds serious. :( Hope you recover soon!

Get well soon Craig. Plenty of rest and lots of fluids.
Take care.

Blown ear drum? :D Kidding.

Hopefully nothing serious, good luck!

Hmmm . . . the magnet in an MRI machine WOULD make a great subwoofer motor . . .

Get well soon, Craig!

Yeah, he's probably over there trying to figure out how to connect a diaphram to it. :)

Get well soon Craig.

Good luck Craig... we will be thinking and praying for you...
Mike L.

Does anyone know how Craig is doing? I don't know why I feel concerned, I don't even know him personally but I really hope he is doing ok.

Get well, Craig! You are in my prayers...:-)

I would hope that most of the 68,000 plus folks who have viewed this Thread will be sending out their best wishes for Craig. He has been a great help to many of us trying to sort through the all of the available options. My system would not be where it is today without his help.
Get well soon Craig.

Agreed! Get well Craig!

Your endeavors have been inspiring and have captured the true essence of a hobbyist's passion. Thanks a lot for the stimulating discussions.

Get well soon Craig!

Get well Craig, and thanks for your work.

Hope all is well,get out of there soon.

Get well soon... thanks for the help

Geez... we haven't heard from Craig in several days. Hope everything is okay....

Good morning ... My wife brought my laptop in for me ... I will be back on my feet in a few days after a few scary ones. Cannot get into a lot of detail, just wanted to say thanks to those who expressed concern, it is appreciated.

I won't be doing any more tests for the forseeable future. It sure was fun. guys. Thanks a bunch. :)

Good news. Glad to hear things appear to be improving.

Craig:

Glad to hear you are ok. Forget the tests and focus on getting better. :-)

Splotto

Skip the forum for a few days and reality really sets in. Good luck Craig I hope you are well soon. There is more to life than bass, but you have been a part of many of our lives for a while.

Hope you are feeling better,
Jeff

Craig my man, I hope you feel better soon!!! When you get home just sit back and enjoy a few of your favorite flix :D

Craig:
Nothing is more important then your health. Hope you have a full recovery. Your contributions to this forum are greatly appreciated and I hope you will be back in the saddle soon. ;)

Regards:
Ian

Good morning ... My wife brought my laptop in for me ... I will be back on my feet in a few days after a few scary ones. Cannot get into a lot of detail, just wanted to say thanks to those who expressed concern, it is appreciated.

I won't be doing any more tests for the forseeable future. It sure was fun. guys. Thanks a bunch. :)
Craig...glad to at least see you posted a smilie.

A few scary hospital days? That does seem a bit serious....glad it looks like the road to recovery is good.

Hope it is not some new bass related sickness you discovered. :)

Good morning ... My wife brought my laptop in for me ... I will be back on my feet in a few days after a few scary ones. Cannot get into a lot of detail, just wanted to say thanks to those who expressed concern, it is appreciated.

I won't be doing any more tests for the forseeable future. It sure was fun. guys. Thanks a bunch. :)
what happened? did I miss something? Hope all is well craig...PM me the details.

ps- just thought you would get a kick out of the sub almost done: :eek: :D ;)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/almostdone005ji2.jpg

Craig,

Hope all is well and you get to leave the Hospital quickly (they do get old).

Take care, and thanks again for all your help.

John S.

Wow, get well soon Craig, and hope you are feeling better. Take care.

You're in our prayers Craig. Wishing you a rapid recovery.

Robert

Ouch, sounds quite serious. Get well.

what happened? did I miss something? Hope all is well craig...PM me the details.

ps- just thought you would get a kick out of the sub almost done: :eek: :D ;)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/almostdone005ji2.jpg
OMG, if that doesn't bring a smile to craigsub's face, nothing will. That's gotta be the biggest, baddest, ugliest, most beautiful, lowest WAF, highest-masculinity, phallic-symbol-sub anyone has ever created. I give it 104 points...

No wait, it's probably ported, so... only 94.5 points. :D

BTW, does it pass the "Steve Callas" LLT test?

Congratulations... I think??? :D

Craig (john)

PS. On a serious note, I sincerely hope all is well with you, craigsub, and that the "viral" thing is as "defeatable" as an 80 Hz crossover. Get well soon and get back to us. We would like to continue to benefit from your experience, expertise and knowledge base.

Not a bad sono-sub ^^^^^^^ a little too small for my tastes. I don't like when they just disappear into the room?!?!?!?!?

Gees, that is a monster!

Do whaever the doctors tell you Craig and get well. I know I speak for all of us when I say your sub reviews will be missed, but life is more important.

Take care Craig you'll be in our thoughts.

get well soon craig. hope it's not super serious.

Thanks again, guys. I get to go home later this morning ... the "hard part" is done. 23 pounds lighter, but feeling remarkably human.

The next few days will be in the upstairs theater room, where my unbelievably wonderful wife can tend to me.

She has always been a great wife, but the last 12 days has shown how great. What an amazing lady !

I will be lurking a lot ... it isn't like I have anywhere to go. :o

Again, thanks for the kind words, as always, the majority of the guys here are a terrific bunch of guys. :)

Craig,

Glad to hear that you're on your way back.

Take care.

6 AM?????? :eek: Boy! They wake you up early in the hospital don't they. :mad: Well, at least you get to use your get-out-of-jail card today. http://bestsmileys.com/goodbye/3.gif

http://www.geocities.com/othersideoftheroad/slippers.gif

"There's no place like home............There's no place like home............There's no place like home............(Are you back in "Kansas" yet?) ;)

Craig. Glad to see you are feeling better. I know it sucks when you are laid out for an extended period of time. Believe me I do. I don't know if I ever gave you the complete rundown on what happened to me(PM me if you want to know). But I hope you will be 100% in no time.

Thanks again, guys. I get to go home later this morning ... the "hard part" is done. 23 pounds lighter, but feeling remarkably human. :)

Hey Craig, the "best" part of all this is the weight loss! Quick diet. :D Seriously, glad your coming home. ;)

Get well, Craig... and take it easy.

Hang in there Craig, the worst is over now!

Since you might not be 100% when you get home it might be time to re-watch Lord of the Rings Extended Edition in DTS with the subwoofer (or subwooferS) that makes you smile the most!!!!

Since they are 4 hours long each that will help time to pass, and pairing it up with your favorite bass friends will provide a nice healing sensation for you :D

I am home, and a bit disturbed at how tiring the trip was. Next up: Wonderful meals including Yogurt, Ensure, Protein shakes, etc ...

There is a brand new BIC H-100 sub sitting in the box, and I am too tired to lug all 32 pounds in order to hook it up.

Wow, this is fun ... :eek: :p :D

I am home, and a bit disturbed at how tiring the trip was. Next up: Wonderful meals including Yogurt, Ensure, Protein shakes, etc ...

Don't forget a quart of prune juice every day! :p

I am home, and a bit disturbed at how tiring the trip was. Next up: Wonderful meals including Yogurt, Ensure, Protein shakes, etc ...

There is a brand new BIC H-100 sub sitting in the box, and I am too tired to lug all 32 pounds in order to hook it up.

Wow, this is fun ... :eek: :p :D


Craig, I am glad that you are back home and feeling better.

Craig, I would like to wish you well. I hope your recovery is a speedy one.

Dang, Craig. This sounds like one of those experiences that takes a man down a peg. Yowzer.

Or did you just audition for a subway commercial? "Hi, My name is Craig, and I lost 23 pounds in one day on the eat-Subway-and-puke-my-guts-out diet. Thanks Subway!"

Wow! Miss a few days online and what happans?

Very glad to hear that you are home and recovering Craig. Some more prayers and well wishes coming to you and your family from the desert southwest. You have given a lot to this and a lot of other forums and it is greatly appreciated. Hope the rest of your recovery is quick and smooth.

Regards,

Chris

Good to hear you are in one piece,now get better soon. Or this will become a massive get better page. ;)

Passing even one day at the hospital feels like a long week,I know I was there last year...a whole four days. Felt like a month.

Well do not force,leave the 32lbs BIC pen in the box.You have better subs to enjoy now,listening to JL Fathoms speeds up recuperation.One study showed!!! :p

Nine out of 10 doctors recommend...

BASS...

for what ails you!

And the 10th, well *she* recommends...

treble.

:D :D :D :D :D

Craig

GWS!!!

:D :p

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/almostdone005ji2.jpg

Have you modified your will so that you can be buried in that monster yet?

I am home, and a bit disturbed at how tiring the trip was. Next up: Wonderful meals including Yogurt, Ensure, Protein shakes, etc ...

There is a brand new BIC H-100 sub sitting in the box, and I am too tired to lug all 32 pounds in order to hook it up.

Wow, this is fun ... :eek: :p :D

Hang in there Mr. Chase. I can see from your post you are on the mend already. In no time it will be spring and you wil be on your John Deere mowing your back 40 and firing up the New York Strips. ;)

:D :p

Very cool looking cylinders Sherv. Have you measured output on those big proxy manhoods yet? ;) :)

Hang in there Mr. Chase. I can see from your post you are on the mend already. In no time it will be spring and you wil be on your John Deere mowing your back 40 and firing up the New York Strips. ;)

Having been on a liquid diet for days, did you HAVE to mention steak ? :eek:

I am picturing golf instead of mowing ... but you are on the right track. :)

Having been on a liquid diet for days, did you HAVE to mention steak ? :eek:

I am picturing golf instead of mowing ... but you are on the right track. :)

Your lucky in a way. I'm on an austere diet still trying to lose the weight I put on over christmas. I've been skiing the hills at Telluride, Co all day trying to burn the calories. I'd love to drop 20 lbs.

When the flowers start growing we should chase the white ball around at The Legends of Niagara, an hour from your place and mine. Seeing all you've endured this winter the rounds are on me and I wil even offer to drink your share at the 19th hole in light of your abstention. :D

what happened? did I miss something? Hope all is well craig...PM me the details.

ps- just thought you would get a kick out of the sub almost done: :eek: :D ;)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/almostdone005ji2.jpg
looks photoshoped to me. With that big sub in the middle of the room, there would not be a full image on the screen in the background.

Then again...there are signs that it isn't photoshoped.

I don't know Ssabripo ... are you compensating for something? :rolleyes:

:p

looks photoshoped to me. With that big sub in the middle of the room, there would not be a full image on the screen in the background.

Then again...there are signs that it isn't photoshoped.

Here is Chang trying to chime in and put someone down... Why can't there be a full image on the screen.....MAYBE IT IS A BIG SCREEN and a BIG ROOM...

Did you notice the light coming in on everything is EXACTLY the same on every object in the picture...including the BIG SUB....that is a MAJOR clue that its real. PLUS the shadows on things are the same.....I could go on and on.

The problem is you just felt the need to throw doubt out there for NO GOOD REASON!

How do you think that guy feels when you tell him what he made was PHOTOSHOPED.

I've seen that guys other posts in other threads.....I know he has been working on a beast.....

Chang.....IF YOU DON"T HAVE SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE TO POST.....DO NOT POST ANYTHING AT ALL.


ssabripo....I had to stick up for you. What you are making is truly something special and I only wish I could hear that big boy when it is finished :D

Craig....glad to see you feeling better and participating in my thread as well.......sorry for the derailment the picture caused; thought it was gonna bring a nice laughter outta you (which it did :) ), but looks like it caused a little itsy wave here, so my bad.

***********************
Have you modified your will so that you can be buried in that monster yet?
no, but once my wife figures them out, surely I can use one when she is done with me!!

Very cool looking cylinders Sherv. Have you measured output on those big proxy manhoods yet? ;) :)
not yet John....we just did a quick dry run to insure that all is well. Unfortunately something was wrong, either a Null or similar room interference, as we were missing some critical mid-bass punch...we moved it to the side a little and it helped, so I have to figure it was room. In any event, once we assemble them in my house, I will run a full sweep and level match/calibrate/and EQ it, and see where it lands. There could have been a million things out of place at chuck's, including electronics, as nothing was adjusted/calibrated/level matched.


looks photoshoped to me. With that big sub in the middle of the room, there would not be a full image on the screen in the background.

Then again...there are signs that it isn't photoshoped.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9867698&&#post9867698
:rolleyes:
I don't know Ssabripo ... are you compensating for something? :rolleyes:
:p
Yes, the lack of massive basement space like Craig, and lack of money like craig and jakeman :D
Here is Chang trying to chime in and put someone down... Why can't there be a full image on the screen.....MAYBE IT IS A BIG SCREEN and a BIG ROOM...

Did you notice the light coming in on everything is EXACTLY the same on every object in the picture...including the BIG SUB....that is a MAJOR clue that its real. PLUS the shadows on things are the same.....I could go on and on.

The problem is you just felt the need to throw doubt out there for NO GOOD REASON!

How do you think that guy feels when you tell him what he made was PHOTOSHOPED.

I've seen that guys other posts in other threads.....I know he has been working on a beast.....

Chang.....IF YOU DON"T HAVE SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE TO POST.....DO NOT POST ANYTHING AT ALL.

ssabripo....I had to stick up for you. What you are making is truly something special and I only wish I could hear that big boy when it is finished :D
no worries Billy...
*****************************


okay, back to craigsub's thread.

Sherv ... Your posting that petite subwoofer was more than welcome. Besides, this is new27's thread, not mine. :)

It appears Curtis was feeling grumpy last night. Californians get nervous over anything that might cause the San Andreas Fault Line to move ... :D

Sherv ... Your posting that petite subwoofer was more than welcome. Besides, this is new27's thread, not mine. :)

It appears Curtis was feeling grumpy last night. Californians get nervous over anything that might cause the San Andreas Fault Line to move ... :D
:D :p :)

Where in that room will those subs go?

My I ask what speakers are in the photo? They don't look like swans.

not yet John....we just did a quick dry run to insure that all is well. Unfortunately something was wrong, either a Null or similar room interference, as we were missing some critical mid-bass punch...we moved it to the side a little and it helped, so I have to figure it was room. In any event, once we assemble them in my house, I will run a full sweep and level match/calibrate/and EQ it, and see where it lands. There could have been a million things out of place at chuck's, including electronics, as nothing was adjusted/calibrated/level matched.





Great stuff. I wish I had the time and tools to build one of those. Its always nice to see the results of a DIY project. Please keep us posted. Hope you didn't mind the "manhood" crack, just trying to keep Craigmeister entertained. ;)

guys, please see my thread in case you have more questions/comments about that big missile silo looking thing.....this thread has some good info about commercial subs, so lets keep it going that way :)


*************************
Where in that room will those subs go?
My I ask what speakers are in the photo? They don't look like swans.
that's not my room...that's chuck's house, which is our command and conquer center, uhm, I mean, proto-shop. The speakers you see are DIY WWMT and WMTW Dayton RS based, which can be found in HTguide.

Subs will go in my living room (see sig), and will be on opposing sides.

Great stuff. I wish I had the time and tools to build one of those. Its always nice to see the results of a DIY project. Please keep us posted. Hope you didn't mind the "manhood" crack, just trying to keep Craigmeister entertained. ;)
No worries John ;) . I will definitely keep you posted, and dont worry about my manhood stuff; my wife does enough damage in that department that I'm immune to it now! :o :D

**************************

It appears Curtis was feeling grumpy last night. Californians get nervous over anything that might cause the San Andreas Fault Line to move ... :D
OK OK....I was wrong.

It's true though...we have not had a big quake in a while. We are due....knock wood. :)

Sherv, you are really creating a "shock and awe" system there my friend. What finish did you get on the 802N's? Please post pics of the final setup.

Sherv, you are really creating a "shock and awe" system there my friend. ....


Its what NASA uses to train astronauts with to give them the feel of a blastoff.

what happened? did I miss something? Hope all is well craig...PM me the details.

ps- just thought you would get a kick out of the sub almost done: :eek: :D ;)

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5079/almostdone005ji2.jpg

Trying to recruit consumers to the DIY section? Don't you know the non-DIY folks
don't like to be teased, two strikes for you :p :o :) :D

Trying to recruit consumers to the DIY section? Don't you know the non-DIY folks
don't like to be teased, two strikes for you
there is always room for others to join the darkside my friend! :D..... it's in them, in their core, their essence; they just dont know it.

Sherv, you are really creating a "shock and awe" system there my friend. What finish did you get on the 802N's? Please post pics of the final setup.
I'm supposed to pick them up on friday...they are dark cherry. I'm really psyched!! :)

As soon as I make pics, I will post it for sure, probably next week once the 802N's and the two towers are in place....that outta complete the system for now ;). It will look something like this:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/DIY%20Ava18%20subs/my_ht_setup2.jpg

Outstanding system you have there Shervin. My only constructive criticism is timbre matching your surrounds and centre to your mains. :cool:

I am drooling over Shervin's Proceed AVP2+6!

I think the weakest link is still the monitor...the sound can potentially over-power the image.

Good point Drew. Time for a 1080p projector or a 1080p 60" display. Audio heavy and video light.

Good point Drew. Time for a 1080p projector or a 1080p 60" display. Audio heavy and video light.
I don't know much about the video side of things, but I have had the chance to see a few different 1080p projectors with HD-DVD content......absolutely stunning. I am ruined as far as video is concerned. :)

Yes. I believe that is typical of people who hang out exclusively at the audio forums. The video side falls way behind in relative quality.

Good point Drew. Time for a 1080p projector or a 1080p 60" display. Audio heavy and video light.

Funny you should mention this. That was exactly what I was thinking when I looked at Shervin's system pics and that is the way I felt about my HDTV based HT. Once I added a projector and a big screen, the audio and video were matched and I really felt I had a home theatre. Adding the projector made a huge difference and at a small fraction of what the audio cost.

Craig
get well sir. I will speak to the owl on your behalf.

ss:
nice sub, nice system
seems I may have to speak to the owl on your behalf as well.

I am drooling over Shervin's Proceed AVP2+6!
Not gonna happen Curtis...sorry. This thing will go with me to the grave, unless a Mark Levinson No.40 lands out of a truck in front of my house.

oh wait, the AVP2 does have the same internals! nevermind then, it definitely is going with me to the grave! :p

Outstanding system you have there Shervin. My only constructive criticism is timbre matching your surrounds and centre to your mains. :cool:
in due time John...in due time ;) . One of the biggest pluses of the DIY center using the Dayton RS drivers and CurtC's XO, is that it is extremely close to the 800 series, scary how close they sound. But eventually things will be equal. For now, I gotta cut my losses, or my wife will cut something else! :D

Funny you should mention this. That was exactly what I was thinking when I looked at Shervin's system pics and that is the way I felt about my HDTV based HT. Once I added a projector and a big screen, the audio and video were matched and I really felt I had a home theatre. Adding the projector made a huge difference and at a small fraction of what the audio cost.
I think the weakest link is still the monitor...the sound can potentially over-power the image.
Yes. I believe that is typical of people who hang out exclusively at the audio forums. The video side falls way behind in relative quality.
Ok...so here is where I come in ;)

you guys DO realize that I work with Video processing, Codec development, etc, (among other things) all the time here at work right? You do realize I have 3 patents on H.264 main profile additions to the motion estimation and frame reconstruction portions, right? As anal as you think i may be in audio, I'm ten fold more anal-retentive in the video side of things.

why do I have a mere 50" plasma? because it is pioneer ELITE 7th generation plasma, that's why!!! Trust me, there is not ONE display source out there that will match the quality of the Elite plasma displays, sans Meridian's new MCTi technology and arguably Fujistu's AVM2 processing. This display has the most vibrant and natural color rendering, extremely accurate Black levels, one of the higherst ANSI measured contrast ratios of any display in any technology, Flat IRE between 0 to 100 (also known as "pure" mode), and in general, a favorite among ImagingScienceFoundation's Bob and Brian.

If you are ever in hollywood next time, goto Universal studios and Paramount, and tell me besides the Sony studio CRTs, what do they use when mastering? ;)

Yes, it is only a mere 50", and yes, it is not 1080p. At this point, it is completely inconsequential to me, as 95% of my viewing is regular HD, upconverted DVDs, and NTSC sources.....i barely plop a Bluray disc onto my PS3 every now and then. By the time 1080p material is more prevalent, and I have a dedicated HD-DVD/BR player, the new Pioneer Super Plasma technology (which I had the privilige of seeing at CES) will be out and a 65" version will be happily hanging from my wall........Immeasurable contrast ratio, black levels never seen before even in SED or OLED, and just a complete leap in display technology:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782695

There is one advantage, and ONE advantage only to projectors: size! in my little tiny family room/kids room/pseudo-HT room, 50" of pure display goodness is plenty, and a 65" technology breaking set will just be icing on the cake!! :eek: :p

here here :)

There is one advantage, and ONE advantage only to projectors: size! in my little tiny family room/kids room/pseudo-HT room, 50" of pure display goodness is plenty, and a 65" technology breaking set will just be icing on the cake!! :eek: :p

errr.....SIZE matters especially in an HT application. Its analagous to why you have built oversized subs. Same deal. Its a much more immersive experience with a 110" diagaonal screen and with careful equipment selection you can have high contrast ratio, CRT like colour accuracy, greyscale linearity and high resolution. I ordered those parameters in order of importance. An HT without a big screen and projector is just not the same.

There is one advantage, and ONE advantage only to projectors: size! in my little tiny family room/kids room/pseudo-HT room, 50" of pure display goodness is plenty, and a 65" technology breaking set will just be icing on the cake!!


You definitely have Vid Cred Shervin ;) but following the above logic, one would think your pre twin tower subwoofage was "plenty". That Pioneer Elite 50 is a great display. I think you are correct in that even the best PJ (well maybe all except Art Sonneborn's) cannot compete with a good plasma. But as Jakeman said to get a true Home Theatre experience, you need a big screen (size does matter).

I am really looking forward to new more affordable 1080P PJ's that are bright enough to use with a reasonable amount of ambient light. My guess is in a year or two these will be <$3K. :cool:

indeed, and that's why the old cliche' of "different strokes for different folks" is very true, specially in A/V :)

I agree with you Rob/John, that a "true" HT experience needs a big screen. However, I'm just too anal retentive to deal with not having absolutely pristine black levels, color rendering, ANSI contrast ratios, etc, etc. I will admit that I wish sizes were bigger, and with the current crop of 80-102" flat panels going for near six digits, I'm stuck with this.

Case in point, I was helping a relative of my boss with his humming issues just 3 weeks ago....long story short, the guy had MASSIVE amounts of money invested in his HT. A $30K Runco 1080p projection system to a 115" projection screen, a pair of Von Schweikert VR9SE's, Boulder Monoblocks providing power, Theta Casablanca running the show, etc.....the entire room, including ceiling, had acoustic foam! :eek:............ After we fixed his problem (incredibly, he had a bad XLR connection), we demo'd his system. Was it awesome? Absolutely! As john said, it gave it the "theater" experience.

But all the while to my ride home I kept thinking, "man, we are in 2007 and projectors still look like.....well.......projectors!". As soon as I walked into my humble kid infested room, and turned on the 1130 with some DiscoveryHD, I felt at home again :)

Size does matter, but so does viewing distance. If you sit relatively close to a 50" plasma, you can get a very immersive experience. If you use this Viewing Distance Calculator (http://http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html), you'll see that you get a similar experience at 8' from a 50" display as you do at 12' from a 92" display and at 19' from a 120" display.

That said, I prefer my projector and 92" screen at 12' anyday. Besides, 8' is too close for audio purposes, unless you like nearfield listening. IMO.

Craig

Size does matter, but so does viewing distance. If you sit relatively close to a 50" plasma, you can get a very immersive experience. If you use this Viewing Distance Calculator (http://http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html), you'll see that you get a similar experience at 8' from a 50" display as you do at 12' from a 92" display and at 19' from a 120" display.

That said, I prefer my projector and 92" screen at 12' anyday. Besides, 8' is too close for audio purposes, unless you like nearfield listening. IMO.

Craig

One clarification here. The closer one sits to the object being viewed the more the eye strains to focus on it. Therefore it is always better to have an image big and far than small and close. That's why there will never be a substitue for a big screen.

hey, I'm not complaining...50" at 8-9ft, with my setup, is plain old perfecto. Actually, 55" would have been perfect, but unfortunatetly no 55" available other than the fujitsu. I can't complain, not one bit! :)

I have a 55e2000 RP Sony....My main viewing/listening Position is about 11-12ft away.

I think it looks great, but if sony made a 60e2000, I would have gone with the 60. (To me in TV world bigger is always better when you are talking about HD and upscaled DVDs...)

The only 60 they make is the a2000 which was about double the price of my 55inch, thus not worth it to me...


Eventually I'll have a projector downstairs and I'll be 11-13feet away from a MUCH larger screen :D

hey, I'm not complaining...50" at 8-9ft, with my setup, is plain old perfecto. Actually, 55" would have been perfect, but unfortunatetly no 55" available other than the fujitsu. I can't complain, not one bit! :)

I can just see it, the worlds first DIY 100" plasma display. :eek: ;)

I can just see it, the worlds first DIY 100" plasma display. :eek: ;)
that's where I stop going DIY :o

if they were made out of wood, drivers, a few capacitors and inductors, some wires here and there, then I'm on it!!!! Pre/pros, displays, transports, etc, are just best left to the experts.

If I even tried to get a Proceed DIY version, it would end up sounding like my 1982 cassette deck walkman! :eek:

I can just see it, the worlds first DIY 100" plasma display. :eek: ;)

That's not that hard. You just place four 50" displays together. The problem is getting rid of that big X in the middle. If anybody can do it, I'm sure ssabripo could do it. :)

I have a 55e2000 RP Sony....My main viewing/listening Position is about 11-12ft away.

I think it looks great, but if sony made a 60e2000, I would have gone with the 60. (To me in TV world bigger is always better when you are talking about HD and upscaled DVDs...)

The only 60 they make is the a2000 which was about double the price of my 55inch, thus not worth it to me...


Eventually I'll have a projector downstairs and I'll be 11-13feet away from a MUCH larger screen :D

Sony makes the phenomenal KDF60XBR2 1080p LCD rear projector which I bought a month ago for my TV room and it anchors a 5.1 system . It has 10,000:1 contrast ratio and at Warm2 had linear greyscale out of the box. colour and black level are excellent but are now at reference levels after the ISF calibration by Michael Chen last week. It also comes in a 70" version. Sherv check this out if you are looking for a video upgrade to your Pioneer Elite and do not want to go the full projector route but want size images. Go big or go home. :p

If you go with a projector the 1080p Sony Pearl would be another good choice at the same price. For rooms with high ambient lighting my all time favourite continues to be a Vutec Silverstar screen with its high gain. I'm still running a 720p Sim HT300e in my HT which I bought 2 years ago from Jason and Allen here at AVS. Even though its a 720p it has excellent colour and black levels, high contrast ratio and according to my ISF calibrator the most linear greyscale he has seen in any projector. The 1080p projectors I have seen so far have not been a significant upgrade to this unit though the Marantz 1080p with the Gennum chip kicks butt, unfortunetly it also kicks your wallet.

Sony makes the phenomenal KDF60XBR2 1080p LCD rear projector which I bought a month ago for my TV room and it anchors a 5.1 system . It has 10,000:1 contrast ratio and at Warm2 had linear greyscale out of the box. colour and black level are excellent but are now at reference levels after the ISF calibration by Michael Chen last week. It also comes in a 70" version. Sherv check this out if you are looking for a video upgrade to your Pioneer Elite and do not want to go the full projector route but want size images. Go big or go home. :p

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

You mean, as in the same KDF-60XBR2 that I owed almost a year ago????!!! You mean the same SXRD set, ISF calibrated, that despite its numbers on paper could not reproduce 50% of the image quality as the Pioneer Elite uncalibrated????!! The same set that was replaced 3 times because I and bob Fucci from imagesciencefoundation could not believe the green glob problem was still present? :p

you mean this set:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/56/156/6/80/32/2805680320037002257jcXKBy_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2805680320037002257jcXKBy)http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/55/155/4/12/56/2293412560037002257FbwwZo_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2293412560037002257FbwwZo)

instead of this set?
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/30/30/7/52/41/2007752410037002257ZHxbtV_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2007752410037002257ZHxbtV)http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/60/60/0/30/96/2555030960037002257KgdMkM_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2555030960037002257KgdMkM)

Next? :)


hehehe....seriously guys, if image quality is your top priority (which is the case to many of us), there is not one single Projection display (rear or front) that will come even remotely close to the Elites or the Fujitsus.

ps- John, the SXRDs are very good sets indeed...as you can see, I even bought one. Nowhere near an Elite caliber, but a great set nonetheless ;)

You must have bought the XRB not the XRB2 which was released last October. No green blob only excellent linearity throughout on my set. As you can see with this latest version, hardly any change was required to chromacity or greyscale out of the box. Some fine tuning of red colour tracking was the only real requirement. I dunno I would forget the phallic subs and get size video if you're serious about HT. ;)

You must have bought the XRB not the XRB2 which was released last October. No green blob only excellent linearity throughout on my set. As you can see with this latest version, hardly any change was required to chromacity or greyscale out of the box. Some fine tuning of red colour tracking was the only real requirement. I dunno I would forget the phallic subs and get size video if you're serious about HT. ;)
ah yes you are correct, it was the XBR1 from last spring (I didn't see that you posted the XBR2), and yes, like you said, the colorspace as well as chrominance and luminance calibration was minimal, as it was pretty much within tolerances out the box. And yes, I've seen and played with the XBR2 plenty of times (I do calibrations for most of the guys at work), and the improvement over the XBR1 was negligible. ANSI measured contrast ratios, color reproduction, black levels, and overall PQ is just not in the same league my good friend. ;)

Hey, but it is a beautiful set no doubt......big, clunky, limited angle viewing, grayish black levels, unnatural color rendering, etc, aside (as compared to the Elites), it is a very outstanding set as I mentioned.

For now, I'm gonna remain "not serious" about HT until next year's super plasma technology :p :D

Wait, weren't we talking about subwoofers at one point?? :)

ps- just to clarify, the XBR SXRDs are NOT lcd's...they are sony's version of LCoS.

Yes its LCos and its pretty good for TV viewing. Pioneer makes terrific plasmas for sure. However for movies there's no substitute for a projector in a dedicated HT. Real videophiles own projectors but I appreciate it may not be a practical alternative. ;)

Yes its LCos and its pretty good for TV viewing. Pioneer makes terrific plasmas for sure. However for movies there's no substitute for a projector in a dedicated HT. Real videophiles own projectors but I appreciate it may not be a practical alternative. ;)
we still are on for dinner at 8:00pm, right?! :D :p

oh, man, by the way, THANKS A MILLION for the cd :)..... that was pretty cool from you John. I loved track 4! Now, in return, I gotta send you my Jeff Lorber's Flipside.

Having been on a liquid diet for days, did you HAVE to mention steak ? :eek:

I am picturing golf instead of mowing ... but you are on the right track. :)
Just read through this thread. Hope you are feeling better-health is even more important than subs :)

ah yes you are correct, it was the XBR1 from last spring (I didn't see that you posted the XBR2), and yes, like you said, the colorspace as well as chrominance and luminance calibration was minimal, as it was pretty much within tolerances out the box. And yes, I've seen and played with the XBR2 plenty of times (I do calibrations for most of the guys at work), and the improvement over the XBR1 was negligible. ANSI measured contrast ratios, color reproduction, black levels, and overall PQ is just not in the same league my good friend. ;)

Hey, but it is a beautiful set no doubt......big, clunky, limited angle viewing, grayish black levels, unnatural color rendering, etc, aside (as compared to the Elites), it is a very outstanding set as I mentioned.

For now, I'm gonna remain "not serious" about HT until next year's super plasma technology :p :D

Wait, weren't we talking about subwoofers at one point?? :)

ps- just to clarify, the XBR SXRDs are NOT lcd's...they are sony's version of LCoS.

The 60" XBR(2) blows every Pioneer Elite out of the water..... I compared them all at Magnolia store and went with the XBR2. I just wish the wife would let me drop the money on getting it ISF calibrated.

The 60" XBR(2) blows every Pioneer Elite out of the water..... I compared them all at Magnolia store and went with the XBR2. I just wish the wife would let me drop the money on getting it ISF calibrated.
LOL

craig, so once you are on your feet again, what's next on the schedule?

craig, so once you are on your feet again, what's next on the schedule?

I will run the BIC H-100 into the system, and see how it does, then the MFW-15 from AV123, as long as it arrives before golf season. After April 1 ... forget seeing a lot of subwoofer testing. Golf season beckons ... :)

After April 1 ... forget seeing a lot of subwoofer testing. Golf season beckons ... :)
:D

too bad my golfing will be cut short this year due to lots of wife @ss kissing to let me keep those nuclear missile silos in her living room :o

The 60" XBR(2) blows every Pioneer Elite out of the water..... I compared them all at Magnolia store and went with the XBR2. I just wish the wife would let me drop the money on getting it ISF calibrated.

great....it was getting to be time to argue something new in this thread. :rolleyes:

for the record, good plasma > any RP technolog in my book. ;)

glad to hear you're feeling better craig. looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Bic H-100.

The 60" XBR(2) blows every Pioneer Elite out of the water..... I compared them all at Magnolia store and went with the XBR2. I just wish the wife would let me drop the money on getting it ISF calibrated.

It looks excellent out of the box. If you check my ISF calibration pdf. above you can see only red color tracking was off and actually needed the calibration. If I new how well my out of the box measurements looked I would have passed on the ISF calibration. The XBR2s are the finest TVs on the market today for all around viewing. Don't mind Sherv as he was biased by the poor performance of first generation XBR. Like yourself I checked out many displays including Pioneer plasmas and it was an easy choice. :cool: Its still not the same or immersive as a fine front projector image though.

we still are on for dinner at 8:00pm, right?! :D :p

oh, man, by the way, THANKS A MILLION for the cd :)..... that was pretty cool from you John. I loved track 4! Now, in return, I gotta send you my Jeff Lorber's Flipside.

Yeah track 4, Aria I believe its called, is a great sub torture test. Hey thanks for Flipside, I've never heard that CD.

Does anyone remember which track of the crystal method cd/dvd has the ref bass?

forget seeing a lot of subwoofer testing. Golf season beckons ...

I feel ya. I was vacationing in Miami two weeks ago on got in 18...suh-weet compared to the 18" of snow we got this week! :eek:

.......The XBR2s are the finest TVs on the market today for all around viewing. Don't mind Sherv as he was biased by the poor performance of first generation XBR. Like yourself I checked out many displays including Pioneer plasmas and it was an easy choice. :cool: Its still not the same or immersive as a fine front projector image though.
John, really, there is no need for arguing here :) ....... I dont doubt that you found the xbr2 to be the finest display ever, and thats the beauty of it, since it is a very subjective matter.

But objectively there is no comparison....the ANSI measures contrast ratios, the black levels, the processing (sony's vs Faroudja), the Gamma and CUE levels, the flat IRE measurements from an unheard of 0-100, and on and on, there is not one single display on the market, projector or otherwise, that has outmeasured the Elites; Fujistsu's come in a very close second, and have a superior processor and deinterlacer in the AVM-2 (and upcoming AVM-3).

Dont take my word for it; surely you are very networked, and can call ISF directly here in Boca Raton, to confirm which of the sets is superior in every category they measure and calibrate. As a second opinion, feel free to call Universal and Paramount, or any other production studio, and ask what they use besides the $40k profesional CRT sets when doing their mastering. ;)

I keep thinking you believe I had a "bad" experience, but I didn't...I actually enjoyed my SXRD very much so prior to upgrading the 1130. I've calibrated 3 more XBR2s since christmas to the guys at work, and still nowhere remotely close objectively or subjectively. For me, accurate video reproduction is tops in my list, including audio, and there just wont be any compromises.

goto the display forum and you will find the consensus thoughts like this:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9914719&&#post9914719

but enough of the displays. :) We will have to agree to say you feel the SXRDs are the best sets available, and people in my field feel Elites/Fujitsus offer the most accurate and truest pictures.

ok..back to subwoofers, as its MUCH more fun to argue about them...:p

ps- PM me your address so I can send you the CD ;)

I had two shoulder surgeries last year. I live in Florida and it has been almost a year since I have been on the golf course. The only upside was that I had more money to spend on home theater last year. I can hardly wait to start spending money on golf clubs again, mine may be all wrong with the new shoulder but hey at least I will have a good excuse on the course.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how the ACI Titan XL would compare to the other $1000-$1200 subs e.g VTF3-HO, PB12-Ultra, and Axiom EP-500?


I'd also be interested in seeing an answer regarding the Titan; or just generally where it may be pointwise on the list.

I asked Craig this question since I have a Titan XL, I believe he asked me to consider the difference between the f112 and f113 (8 points) and then apply a similair point differential between the Titan and Maestro.

Craigsub,

Sad to hear you're ill!! Get better soon!

John, really, there is no need for arguing here :) ....... I dont doubt that you found the xbr2 to be the finest display ever, and thats the beauty of it, since it is a very subjective matter.

But objectively there is no comparison....the ANSI measures contrast ratios, the black levels, the processing (sony's vs Faroudja), the Gamma and CUE levels, the flat IRE measurements from an unheard of 0-100, and on and on, there is not one single display on the market, projector or otherwise, that has outmeasured the Elites; Fujistsu's come in a very close second, and have a superior processor and deinterlacer in the AVM-2 (and upcoming AVM-3).

Dont take my word for it; surely you are very networked, and can call ISF directly here in Boca Raton, to confirm which of the sets is superior in every category they measure and calibrate. As a second opinion, feel free to call Universal and Paramount, or any other production studio, and ask what they use besides the $40k profesional CRT sets when doing their mastering. ;)

I keep thinking you believe I had a "bad" experience, but I didn't...I actually enjoyed my SXRD very much so prior to upgrading the 1130. I've calibrated 3 more XBR2s since christmas to the guys at work, and still nowhere remotely close objectively or subjectively. For me, accurate video reproduction is tops in my list, including audio, and there just wont be any compromises.

goto the display forum and you will find the consensus thoughts like this:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9914719&&#post9914719

but enough of the displays. :) We will have to agree to say you feel the SXRDs are the best sets available, and people in my field feel Elites/Fujitsus offer the most accurate and truest pictures.

ok..back to subwoofers, as its MUCH more fun to argue about them...:p

ps- PM me your address so I can send you the CD ;)



Funny, I thought this was a subwoofer thread. :confused:

Sorry my mistake. I'll come back later, after you guys are finished. ;)


Ian :D

No you're right Ian. ;) We both got off topic for a while last week. Back to subs.

There is a reason Pioneer Elites cost twice as much as the Sony XBR. I have always owned Pioneer Elite as they were the best one could buy but when they changed to plasma only I can't afford 10K on something I will be replacing in say 3-5 years. I put the Sony next to the Pioneer and while the Sony has a great picture out of the box there is nothing that could beat that Pioneer. Unfortunantly this is my first Sony and it does have a great picture. Have had 3 Optical blocks replaced and have known others as well but other than that I am glad I have an extended warranty. Hopefully in a couple of years the price will come down on the Pioneers Elite models then its back to Pioneer.
Mike

Sony and Pioneer make hi-end subs? :rolleyes:

Sony and Pioneer make hi-end subs? :rolleyes:


I know, it's hard to believe that this is a Craigsub :cool: thread.


Ian :D

Sony and Pioneer make hi-end subs? :rolleyes:

Yes CHT(cheap home theater?) has crowned(yes CROWNED) the Sony WM40 a great sub!!!! :p Its massive 70Hz boom opressed the award winning reviewers,and total lack of output at 20Hz dazzled the neighbors!

Well maybe 20hz @ 70DB measured inside the cabinet,with a free 80% of bonus distortion. ;)

any news on the Bic H100 test?

I will run the BIC H-100 into the system, and see how it does, then the MFW-15 from AV123, as long as it arrives before golf season. After April 1 ... forget seeing a lot of subwoofer testing. Golf season beckons ... :)

Hi Craig

I hope you hit a hole in one on your first shot :)

Yes CHT(cheap home theater?) has crowned(yes CROWNED) the Sony WM40 a great sub!!!! :p Its massive 70Hz boom opressed the award winning reviewers,and total lack of output at 20Hz dazzled the neighbors!

Well maybe 20hz @ 70DB measured inside the cabinet,with a free 80% of bonus distortion. ;)

Hey Ear,

Have you heard the Sony wx900? With your vast experience and numerous subs surely you have or know someone that has. Would like your thoughts on it.

thanks

Hey Ear,

Have you heard the Sony wx900? With your vast experience and numerous subs surely you have or know someone that has. Would like your thoughts on it.

thanks

Man, you had better erase this post before someone else sees it! :D :D

Mentioning Sony in this forum, let alone thread is akin to blasphemy. :p

Man, you had better erase this post before someone else sees it! :D :D

Mentioning Sony in this forum, let alone thread is akin to blasphemy. :p

lol :D

Although It probably wouldn't make Craig's list (no pun intended) I hear that the Sony SA-WX900 is a pretty good sub. Although I wouldn't buy one. :)

Man, you had better erase this post before someone else sees it! :D :D

Mentioning Sony in this forum, let alone thread is akin to blasphemy. :p

Hey they opened the door. :)

But I do ask this with sincerity, I have always wanted to know more about this particular sub and why it is so hard to find.

Hey they opened the door. :)

But I do ask this with sincerity, I have always wanted to know more about this particular sub and why it is so hard to find.

It's mostly available from overseas (UK). From what I hear it suppossed to be a suprisingly good sub. Most people just can't get past the Sony name, which is why no reviewer will probably every give it a shot.

Hey Ear,

Have you heard the Sony wx900? With your vast experience and numerous subs surely you have or know someone that has. Would like your thoughts on it.

thanks

No sorry,I have read some good things from general users online.But no local dealers carry this sub.

If I had the oportunity I would buy one to test,and for fun.I buy what is close to home and also know a good number of people who pass me subs or gear for testing at home.But nobody I know has this unit.

I have only heard the WM20 and 40 frpom Sony,to describe these as horrible does not even begin to paint the picture.I know these are the low end. :o

Gents ... I am finally healthy enough that the BIC H-100 will be tested over the next week to 10 days.

After that, as soon as it is ready, the new MFW-15 from AV123 will be tested - and Sometime in May, look for a GP session on several of the subs.

Glad to hear you are feeling better Craig, don't rush back on our behalf :D

Seriously, glad to hear you are doing better though

Gents ... I am finally healthy enough that the BIC H-100 will be tested over the next week to 10 days.

After that, as soon as it is ready, the new MFW-15 from AV123 will be tested - and Sometime in May, look for a GP session on several of the subs.

Glad your back Craig! Looking foward to your results! BTW, how's the custom subs working out? :o

Glad to see you back Craig. Hope all is well. Don't forget to test that Orb Audio Super 8.

You already have an MFW Craig?

Good to hear Craig,get back 100% and test that BIC ball pen for us. ;)

Gents ... I am finally healthy enough that the BIC H-100 will be tested over the next week to 10 days.

After that, as soon as it is ready, the new MFW-15 from AV123 will be tested - and Sometime in May, look for a GP session on several of the subs.

Hi Craig

I am really glad you are feeling healthier. I ordered an Onix X-Sub in Rosa Diamond Palisander. Probably won't come in until May.

Please take good care of yourself.

Don't stab yourself with that BIC ;)

I have sent Orb 2 emails ... no answer to either. I even offered to buy the sub.

I don't have an MFW-15 yet ... but production is supposed to start soon.

And ... Ear, Artie ... STOP with the ball point pen jokes. This was bad enough when I could kill bad humor with a good scotch ... but now it is TOO much ... :D

Thanks for the advice Craig, I ordered a PSB Subsonic 6i and boy were you right, It is an excellent sub. The 225 wat amp in the PSB seems much more powerful than its rating. It may not have the three digit 20hz db rating of a HSU but 94db at 20HZ sounds ok to me. Again, thanks for helping me decide. I love this baby, and dmc electronics is a great store. :D

Craig, I'm glad to read that you are feeling better. Who knows, maybe some day you'll sell the dealership and start publishing a subwoofer magazine . I can see it now: Craig Sub, Editor In Chief. ;)


Ian :D

Craig, I'm glad to read that you are feeling better. Who knows, maybe some day you'll sell the dealership and start publishing a subwoofer magazine . I can see it now: Craig Sub, Editor In Chief. ;)


Ian :D

Ian ... I will run the idea past my wife ... It will go something like this ...

"Wife, you know those car dealerships we have ? I was going to sell them and publish my own magazine about subwoofers... How many people do I think will subscribe? ... 10 ... maybe 12, if I work at it. Heck, we might crack $200 per year in subscriptions" ...

I am pretty sure she won't like the idea ... :eek:

Ian ... I will run the idea past my wife ... It will go something like this ...

"Wife, you know those car dealerships we have ? I was going to sell them and publish my own magazine about subwoofers... How many people do I think will subscribe? ... 10 ... maybe 12, if I work at it. Heck, we might crack $200 per year in subscriptions" ...

I am pretty sure she won't like the idea ... :eek:


Craig: There are probably a lot more bass heads out there then you may think. Keep the dealerships and publish an online news letter. Since I'm now in the web business, I'll do all the internet marketing, for a very reasonable fee. :D Be well.

Ian

The online newsletter is a great idea. There are certainly plenty of folks around here who would love to contribute their wisdom and/or photos to the effort.

Ian ... I will run the idea past my wife ... It will go something like this ...

"Wife, you know those car dealerships we have ? I was going to sell them and publish my own magazine about subwoofers... How many people do I think will subscribe? ... 10 ... maybe 12, if I work at it. Heck, we might crack $200 per year in subscriptions" ...

I am pretty sure she won't like the idea ... :eek:

LMAO :p .

The online newsletter is a great idea. There are certainly plenty of folks around here who would love to contribute their wisdom and/or photos to the effort.


..... not to mention controlability. Some moron post an offending post, just delete it. That alone would make it worth the effort. :D

Craig,

Much luck in your new career as a magazine editor!! :D

I am happy you are feeling somewhat back to normal. I'm sure with golf season right around the corner, this will expedite the healing process!!

Also, don't quit your day job just yet!! :eek:

Charles

Where do I send my money to? :) I want a subscription!

Where do I send my money to? :) I want a subscription!
Send the money to mojomike in South Florida, and Craig will send you the magazine. :D

Send the money to mojomike in South Florida, and Craig will send you the magazine. :D

This new biz plan is cure to be in the curriculum at Harvard Business School next Fall. :D

All kidding aside, I think the idea of an on-line sub newsletter actually has some merit and Craig, you would be perfect as the frontman.

I would be happy to contribute to the effort within the limits of my abilities.

I'd be willing to do some movie reviews and subwoofer tests with the movies kind of like how I'm doing with those threads. Maybe not post the numbers, but talk about certain scenes, positives and negitives for subwoofer based on the movies .

People would have to realize that the information all needs to be taken with some grain of salt since performance for any subwoofer can vary greatly depending on the room and many factors that come along with different room dynamics.

:D The Case Study

1. Successful car dealership executive sells franchises to fund subwoofer newsletter.

2. Use fee based model which relies on readership to voluntary contiribute $50 if sub purchased using newsletter as primary research source.

3. Assumes 100% honesty factor and "contribution" of $50 per purchase.

4. 10,000 subscribers purchase subs/per annumwhich results in $500,000 in sales and $400,000 in net revenues after direct costs.

5. Idea spreads to include refrigerators and other essential appliances.

6. Sell thriving business for 10x EBITDA to cover divorce settlement.

7. Entreprenuer gets new job selling used cars and moves into small condo with cocktail waitress.

Jakeman that was really funny!!! LMAO