Craig, I've been waiting and wondering when will you post the points score of the latest Trinity sub that received glowing reviews?

Foamfan ... We need to run the GP session on it .. which we plan on doing after the Elemental Designs A7-900 arrives.

It will be late August before we are done ... but for a music and overall listening, the Trinity has done a great job.

aaah...thanks. Now I understand.

I've been following a couple of your threads with a great deal of anticipation, feels like being hooked on some habit forming substance :)

What about my question Craig?

Hey Craig,

What sub would you recommend in the $500-$700 range?

About 95% movies, room is 12 X 23 open to a kitchen, dining room & stairway going up.

What about my question Craig?

Elemental Designs, SVS, Hsu ... any of those will work great in that range.

To name one as the clear "best" in that range is not going to happen, unless in the future a sub is SO far above the others that it deserves special mention.

How does the EP-500 v2 compare against the EP-600 v2? Is it actually worth the extra money to buy the 600?

How does the EP-500 v2 compare against the EP-600 v2? Is it actually worth the extra money to buy the 600?

That is a tough call ... the 600 does give a more solid floor, and more output, below about 22 Hz ... about an extra 3-4 dB.

Is that worth it to you ? :)

The Trinity is here ... It has been unboxed for about 45 minutes. I calibrated it, and used the Auto EQ on the SMS-1 ... it looks to be pretty flat (+/- 3.5 dB) from 18 Hz and up ...

craig, quick question

was this "in room" or "outside" ?

craig, quick question

was this "in room" or "outside" ?

This was in room ... When we get the other beast here (A7-900), both it and the Trinity will get some max SPL readings and an outdoor response curve posted.

thanks craig

Elemental Designs, SVS, Hsu ... any of those will work great in that range.

To name one as the clear "best" in that range is not going to happen, unless in the future a sub is SO far above the others that it deserves special mention.


Thanks for you help.

I currently have HSU STF-2 in my room which measures 20 x 17 x 8 with an opening to a narrow foyer that lead to a stairway. Which of these two sub (HSU VTF-2 MKIII or eD A5-300) would be a good choice for both HT and music? I much prefer quality of bass over quantity, musicality a must. I am also open to suggestion for other models under $600.00 delivered. Thanks for your help.

Receiver: Onkyo 805
Fronts: Energy RC-30, soon to be Mirage OM-9
Center: Mirage OM-C2
Rear: Mirage Omni Micro
Back surround: Energy Dipole ( forgot model #)

I know this sub is discontinued now, but where would it rank in the listings?

According to the HSU web site, the closest match in the current line up:

Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points

Hi,
My room is 2000 cubic feet with the dining room open to back-15x15 and 8ft ceilings.. I have inwall surounds fronts and center. I am looking for a sub in the 600 and under range. I also want deep tight bass....would the eD a2 300 be a good fit for me?

Thanks

craigsub must be on vacation.

craig, do you ever remove the drivers from a sub to check out the insides?

i'd love to see the insides of the trinity to see what kind of bracing is going on in there

also to see if all the drivers are sharing the same air or if they are using 2 separate chambers. i'm guess it's all one big box with all the drivers sharing the same air

We are leaving for vacation tomorrow, and I just returned from a quick business trip.

I rarely look inside a sub, but will check out the Trinity if I get the chance after we return.

Between the basic and high end bookshelf speakers shootouts, and the sub stuff, I am pretty backed up.

See you guys on 8-13 :)

We are leaving for vacation tomorrow, and I just returned from a quick business trip.

I rarely look inside a sub, but will check out the Trinity if I get the chance after we return.

Between the basic and high end bookshelf speakers shootouts, and the sub stuff, I am pretty backed up.

See you guys on 8-13 :)

enjoy your vacation craig :cool:

I am feeling pretty good about my HSU subs these days. (I just bought a second VTF-3 HO!) For comparison sake, I have added the pricing info below. Argue all you want about a few db here and a few db there. I think the pricing kind of brings things into focus.

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points ($3200)
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points ($4999)
ACI Maestro: 97 points ($2250)
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points ($2600)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points ($999)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points ($899)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points ($799)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points ($699)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points ($1999)
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Yes, and my Honda Civic does a good job of bringing me from point A to point B but I would rather ride in my friend's Mercedes: It doesn't really have many more horses, but it's just a nicer experience -- though not one I'm ready to pay for :)

I'll probably be getting dual HSUs for my new configuration (it's a 17' x 13' x 7' space, so two VTF2-MKIII should do the trick) so I understand where you are coming from. But I have had JL Audio, Velodyne, and HSU in my home before, and the differences are more than raw output. Are those differences worth it to you? I think you have answered that question, as have I, for now.

I am feeling pretty good about my HSU subs these days. (I just bought a second VTF-3 HO!) For comparison sake, I have added the pricing info below. Argue all you want about a few db here and a few db there. I think the pricing kind of brings things into focus.

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points ($3200)
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points ($4999)
ACI Maestro: 97 points ($2250)
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points ($2600)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points ($999)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points ($899)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points ($799)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points ($699)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points ($1999)
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

FYI, you have the price on the SVS Ultra too high, it's only $1399 and that's the newly redesigned 13" version which Craig will be testing soon and surely will rank higher than the older model...

Another thing to consider is the street pricing on these subwoofers ... for example, the Velodyne is obtainable for something in the $3000 range.

The Fathom 113, in the $2600-$2800 range.

And yes, the new Ultra should be a step up from the old Ultra ...

According to the HSU web site, the closest match in the current line up:

Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points

No it would be more on the line of the VTF3 MKIII

The question was about the "Hsu Vtf3 Mkii".

According the HSU web site:

"The new VTF-2 MK3 is basically a slightly less powerful version of the VTF-3 Mk 2, and just like the VTF-3, with 250W, a 12 inch woofer, and maximum extension down to 18 Hz. It gives you unprecedented value for your money - VTF-3 performance for a VTF-2 price!"

I interpret that to mean the current VTF-2 MK3 is more similar to the VTF-3 MK2 than any other current HSU sub. Maybe I've been duped by HSU marketing.

I am feeling pretty good about my HSU subs these days. (I just bought a second VTF-3 HO!) For comparison sake, I have added the pricing info below. Argue all you want about a few db here and a few db there. I think the pricing kind of brings things into focus.

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points (MSRP $3200)
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points (MSRP $4999)
ACI Maestro: 97 points (MSRP $2250)
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points (MSRP $2600)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points ($999)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points ($899)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points ($799)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points ($699)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points (MSRP $1999)
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

I apologize... The prices above were all directly from the manufacturers websites. I have added "MSRP" to the appropriate prices above. Yes, HSU also lists higher MSRP prices but since they sell primarily direct to consumers, I listed their actual selling prices. I am certain that some of these subs can be found discounted from MSRP. But in general, HSU appears to be one heck of a "value buy".

Yes, HSU also lists higher MSRP prices but since they sell primarily direct to consumers, I listed their actual selling prices.
Actually you will find that Hsu only sell direct and have stopped selling to any dealers so an MSRP price really doesn't exist (even though they list one e.g. $1300 for the HO).

Ddavidson

The question was about the "Hsu Vtf3 Mkii".

According the HSU web site:

"The new VTF-2 MK3 is basically a slightly less powerful version of the VTF-3 Mk 2, and just like the VTF-3, with 250W, a 12 inch woofer, and maximum extension down to 18 Hz. It gives you unprecedented value for your money - VTF-3 performance for a VTF-2 price!"

I interpret that to mean the current VTF-2 MK3 is more similar to the VTF-3 MK2 than any other current HSU sub. Maybe I've been duped by HSU marketing.

Nope, your instincts are exactly right nathan. The model most similar in performance to VTF-3 Mk2 is the VTF-2 Mk3. The -3 Mk2 has a bit more power, but otherwise they are very similar in performance (virtually identical enclosure/driver/porting).

hmm, seems I need to study Fathom! :rolleyes:

SVS has some new models like SB12+, new 13ultra..... can you also update scores if possible. BTW, can you also add $ of each sub, so we can know which ones have higher CP ratio. tks

HSU good performance is no question ask! just it's made in CN while I prefer made in USA! ;)

This was taken fron AV123 boards, it is GOLD imo and deserving of it's own thread. Bravo Craig!

edited Jan 18 to reflect the addition of the HSU VTF 3.3 and SVS PB12-NSD
edited Jan 19 to reflect the addition of the SVS PB10-NSD
edited Jan 23 to reflect the addition of the HSU VTF 2.3

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

This post is updated. For the current review points, look on the first page about the 5th post down under the user "Craigsub". He updates that post and it's the current one.

For prices of the subs, look up 3 posts.

has Craigsub ever reviewed any of the Earthquake Supernova line?...

craig - have you had a chance to listen to the ed a5-300? and how (if you have listened) does that compare to VTF-3.3? from what was listed on here you might be on vacation - if so hope you have a great time!

There seems to be an annual GTG in PA. Are there any people interested in doing a GTG at other sites? I am in D/FW,TX & would LOVE to do a GTG. My place is small, but I do own a new HSU VTF-2MK3 for comparison testing :D Anybody else interested?

We are leaving for vacation tomorrow, and I just returned from a quick business trip.

ISee you guys on 8-13 :)Hmmmmmm sounds like a good time to take a trip to PA and get some free subs :D

Hmmmmmm sounds like a good time to take a trip to PA and get some free subs :D


ahah do you have real big truck and a strong back? :eek:

Also craig I thought you where getting dual PB13ultra's did that change to just one?

ahah do you have real big truck and a strong back? :eek:

Also craig I thought you where getting dual PB13ultra's did that change to just one?

Looks like just one of these new SVS subs is going to be all most will need for overall output and room pressure....I can't wait myself!! As long as you are able to calibrate properly, I can't see the need for two of these monsters.

Looks like just one of these new SVS subs is going to be all most will need for overall output and room pressure....I can't wait myself!! As long as you are able to calibrate properly, I can't see the need for two of these monsters.


I agree I just for some reason thought craig was going to pick up to from the factery.hmmm

ahah do you have real big truck and a strong back? :eek:

Also craig I thought you where getting dual PB13ultra's did that change to just one?Nope, but I do have a friend who drives a 18 wheeler with a dolly :D .

I just ordered a a3-350 from eD subs. I own a Definitivetechnology SC II and it gets somewhat boomy at times. Dont get me wrong, very good sub but placement is very much and issue with it. I am hoping to get a faster lower sub from eD.

craigsub, I hope you had an enjoyable vacation. I just returned from one myself! :D

Outlaw Audio recently released their LFM-1 EX (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html) sub for $650. I have the LFM-1 Plus that I recently bought, so I'm not looking into buying a new sub. But for thoroughness in your ranking and out of curiosity, do you plan on auditioning this new sub? I'm guessing it would be at the level of the HSU VTF 3.3.

Outlaw Audio recently released their LFM-1 EX (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html) sub for $650. I have the LFM-1 Plus that I recently bought, so I'm not looking into buying a new sub. But for thoroughness in your ranking and out of curiosity, do you plan on auditioning this new sub? I'm guessing it would be at the level of the HSU VTF 3.3.

It looks like a good comparison, on paper. If it is valid, they have undercut HSU significantly -- especially if one is buying two subs where the shipped price of two 3.3s is 1600, and the shipped price of two LFM-1 EX is 1350.

Of course, you miss out on some of the flexibility of the HSU, such as the option to add turbo chargers. And there are probably other differences.

I have an Outlaw LFM-1 EX in route, so I hope it lives up to the 3.3, however there are some differences on paper --- from the pictures it looks like the LFM-1 EX uses 3" ports rather than the 4" ports the hsu vtf 3.3 uses. I am a little worried such a massive sub in a one 3"port configuration could have problems, but I'll find out for sure in a few days!

nathan, you are right that Outlaw might undercut HSU, which gives hope that HSU might cut prices. :cool:

lanion, congrats on your order. Please report back on how the Outlaw sounds. Will it replace a current sub or is it a new one?

The extra porting and the side firing aspects of the HSU may be enough of a differentiator to obviate the need for HSU to price match.... but we can hope! I've got a couple of months until I need to buy, so things could easily change by then.

I also posted this on the Outlaw site, but here are my initial impressions:

Well, LFM-1 EX is up and running and sounds great. As I was hoping the aesthetics go wonderfully with my ebony Polk LSi speakers (with the glossy black top).

The Oliphant Charge in Return of The King and the final scene of The Host at 1:43:10 had some sub 20hz bass and it was certainly very loud and very impressive.

I played around a little bit between max extension and max output, but not enough to tell a strong difference, in part because in max extension it gets louder than I would ever want it in my rather small room (13x10x8).

I don't have much to compare it to as my last sub was a cheap end 8" Velodyne that got down to 37hz (though I do use a Buttkicker LFE that goes down to 5hz... but that is very different). The differences have been pretty astounding, for example the fight scenes in 300 with the giant you can really feel the punches and blows. Great stuff.

The ButtKicker has gotten me used to really feeling deep bass (at least on my... butt), but this is still a huuuge improvement as now I can feel it everywhere and experience heavy room compression and that punch-in-the-chest feeling. I have yet to do any proper setup with SPL meter and calibration disc, so it may improve
a bit later down the road.

Also, I live in an apartment and like my neighbors, so I havn't cranked it to the limits at all. If anyone lives near Chapel Hill, NC and wants to do a small shoot out, let me know!

Which sub from HSU is the LFM-1EX comparable to?

Similar to a VTF3mk3 with smaller ports, lower tuning, and no turbocharger potential.

Similar to a VTF3mk3 with smaller ports, lower tuning, and no turbocharger potential.

Hmm.. Somewhat incorrect.

No commercial 'turbocharger' potential.
One can always make their own. Making your own stuff is pretty fun. :cool:
Very satisfactory feeling in the end. :D

Welll, since the LFMs are bottom firing, a custom turbocharger would be an aesthetic nightmare....

and, I really chose Outlaw over Hsu because of aesthetics in the first place. I am happy.

Welll, since the LFMs are bottom firing, a custom turbocharger would be an aesthetic nightmare....

and, I really chose Outlaw over Hsu because of aesthetics in the first place. I am happy.

True. lol

Looking to buy a very musical sub that does HT well for under $600.00....don't mind buying used. Suggestions?

Alex ... I will be selling one of the VTF-3 HO's in the next couple of weeks ... drop me a PM if you are interested.

Things are gonna heat up pretty soon, too. Vito posted this in the DIY section ... the 2 boxes on the left are going to each house dual SDX-15's from Creative sounds, and stand 37H x 22W x 21D ... the big guy lying down stands 49x26x26.5 ...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/38_1622.jpg

They should be here Monday ... :D

Alex ... I will be selling one of the VTF-3 HO's in the next couple of weeks ... drop me a PM if you are interested.

Things are gonna heat up pretty soon, too. Vito posted this in the DIY section ... the 2 boxes on the left are going to each house dual SDX-15's from Creative sounds, and stand 37H x 22W x 21D ... the big guy lying down stands 49x26x26.5 ...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/38_1622.jpg

They should be here Monday ... :D

What is the internal volume of each? I'm going to be ordering an enclosure from them and want to be ready to know how much it might cost.

The sealed cabinets for the SDX-15's are appx. 6.5^3 feet internal, and the A7-900 is appx 10 ^ 3 feet.

The sealed cabinets for the SDX-15's are appx. 6.5^3 feet internal, and the A7-900 is appx 10 ^ 3 feet.

And yours cost $425? Each or for both?

That was for each, including freight. Freight on one of those is not cheap ... :eek:

That was for each, including freight. Freight on one of those is not cheap ... :eek:

Damn. Now I'm worried.
I'm getting a 25 cu ft enclosure.. :eek:

What is the internal volume of each? I'm going to be ordering an enclosure from them and want to be ready to know how much it might cost.
your close to me why not have my friend build it? or if you want I can also build it but it wont be perfect lol It wont be anywhere near $400 either...

But of course if you want ed that is perfectly fine just letting you know that i can "hook you up" lol

They should be here Monday ... :D
do you think thats enough cone area :p :eek:

Alex ... I will be selling one of the VTF-3 HO's in the next couple of weeks ... drop me a PM if you are interested.

PM sent.

I also posted this on the Outlaw site, but here are my initial impressions:

Well, LFM-1 EX is up and running and sounds great. As I was hoping the aesthetics go wonderfully with my ebony Polk LSi speakers (with the glossy black top).

The Oliphant Charge in Return of The King and the final scene of The Host at 1:43:10 had some sub 20hz bass and it was certainly very loud and very impressive.

I played around a little bit between max extension and max output, but not enough to tell a strong difference, in part because in max extension it gets louder than I would ever want it in my rather small room (13x10x8).

I don't have much to compare it to as my last sub was a cheap end 8" Velodyne that got down to 37hz (though I do use a Buttkicker LFE that goes down to 5hz... but that is very different). The differences have been pretty astounding, for example the fight scenes in 300 with the giant you can really feel the punches and blows. Great stuff.

The ButtKicker has gotten me used to really feeling deep bass (at least on my... butt), but this is still a huuuge improvement as now I can feel it everywhere and experience heavy room compression and that punch-in-the-chest feeling. I have yet to do any proper setup with SPL meter and calibration disc, so it may improve
a bit later down the road.

Also, I live in an apartment and like my neighbors, so I havn't cranked it to the limits at all. If anyone lives near Chapel Hill, NC and wants to do a small shoot out, let me know!
Thanks for the review. Given the small size of your room, that sub seems to be overkill. But maybe if you move out into a house, you can really crank it up and enjoy it. :) I haven't been able to crank mine up too much b/c of the tile issue that I've been too busy/lazy to address. I'll make a trip to Home Depot this weekend to try a few products. I know the Auralex Gramma riser will fix the sub/tile buzzing/vibration issue, but the extra 3" of height it'll add might make the sub too tall.

I really chose Outlaw over Hsu because of aesthetics in the first place. I am happy.

You probably already know this, but HSU makes all of Outlaw's subs for them. My opinion is that HSU cut corners. In comparison the HSU subs sound better on the music side. Just my opinion though.

Johnny

I knew Hsu helped design them, but when I saw the Outlaw sub was shipping from the same part of California as HSU is located, I figured they made them (just like my Outlaw 7125 shipped out of ATI's warehouse in CA).

I have no regrets at all right now. Some shortcuts may have been made, but the sub looks great (I don't like textured black)!

You probably already know this, but HSU makes all of Outlaw's subs for them. My opinion is that HSU cut corners. In comparison the HSU subs sound better on the music side. Just my opinion though.

Johnny

Are you saying that (in your opinion) HSU cuts corner and HSU sounds better?

Are you saying that (in your opinion) HSU cuts corner and HSU sounds better?
NO

He is saying they cut corners for their customer "outlaw" and not for their direct customers "us"

You probably already know this, but HSU makes all of Outlaw's subs for them. My opinion is that HSU cut corners. In comparison the HSU subs sound better on the music side. Just my opinion though.

Johnny
Do you have evidence that HSU cuts corners for Outlaw's subs? I know you said it's just your opinion, but I'd like to see it somehow substantiated.

I suspect HSU builds the Outlaw subwoofer to Outlaws expected specs (performance and physical size). I dont think that HSU will "cut corners" and provide Outlaw with a product that isnt 100% what they were comissioned to build. The "cutting corners" notion is silly.

I guess the assumption is that if both Hsu and Outlaw want to make money on the sub, there is going to be a little more overhead, even though it is a 'factory direct' sub. I am not sure how Hsu / Outlaw share profits on subs -- regardless the Outlaw subs are great.

I guess the assumption is that if both Hsu and Outlaw want to make money on the sub, there is going to be a little more overhead, even though it is a 'factory direct' sub. I am not sure how Hsu / Outlaw share profits on subs -- regardless the Outlaw subs are great.

maybe we just have to get craig to test one :cool:

^ I agree w/ the last 3 posts. :cool:

And about HSU cutting corners for Outlaw, the only one who can claim that is someone who designs and/or makes both HSU and Outlaw subs.

Here are some pics of the new Elemental Designs A7-900. This subwoofer is not only a beast, but it sounds pretty darn good, too ! We placed it in our detatched, 5 car garage for now, and are running it with a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls.

The neighborhood got treated to a concert - and the A7-900 was delivering palpable bass 100 feet away.

My 6 foot son with the 6 foot 3 inch old man next to the sub ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1793.jpg

After beating the subwoofer into submission ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1799.jpg

For perspective - here is an SVS PB10 on it ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1797.jpg

and next to it ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

Another view ... it is hard to describe how BIG this guy is ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1802.jpg

Holy Cow!!! I could only imagine what this sub can do. I will never have a place to accomodate a sub this size.

I can only imagine...if you start seeing dents in the car fenders, turn it down. ;)

Ron - The delivery went so smoothly, I was not even called home to help. Kudos to the troops !!!! :)

The garage will be seeing a lot of changes before winter hits ... the drum set is the first thing to go. We will be putting a full 5.1 system in ... and it is extremely well insulated, and is heated.

As my kids said ... "Dad will finally have his cigar room ... " :D

Those feet look like you need a couple of more inches or you'll be slapping the floor when you crank it up.

^ I agree w/ the last 3 posts. :cool:

And about HSU cutting corners for Outlaw, the only one who can claim that is someone who designs and/or makes both HSU and Outlaw subs.
Do you really believe HSU will come out and say they cut corners on outlaw subs?
DO you think outlaw will also do the same?

Remember this the more people the profit needs to be shared the less you get for the same amount.

Why do you think tc sounds is "raising" their prices. You will have to buy it through the dealer and not direct which adds a third person.

Now do we know the extent that gets cut, NO... and it is probably simple things we wont notice.

After seeing that A7, it should put an end to calling an SVS sub 'a big, ugly box'. :)

OMG!!!!

Craig,
Now I know how you keep in shape. That system is bigger then the large JBL commercial units that my friend uses in his.... :cool:club!

Ian

What are the actual dimensions of that sub?

It is 49 x 26.5 x 25 inches, and weighs 435 pounds.

After seeing that A7, it should put an end to calling an SVS sub 'a big, ugly box'. :)

no, that would just make them both ugly :p

the A7's look easy enough to stack :cool:

gosh, you got really HUGE monster!!!:eek:

Here are some pics of the new Elemental Designs A7-900. This subwoofer is not only a beast, but it sounds pretty darn good, too ! We placed it in our detatched, 5 car garage for now, and are running it with a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls.

The neighborhood got treated to a concert - and the A7-900 was delivering palpable bass 100 feet away.

My 6 foot son with the 6 foot 3 inch old man next to the sub ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1793.jpg

After beating the subwoofer into submission ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1799.jpg

For perspective - here is an SVS PB10 on it ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1797.jpg

and next to it ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

Another view ... it is hard to describe how BIG this guy is ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1802.jpg

Holly smoke :eek: this is a monster sub.......But I woundn't mind to have one in my house:D
You said "it sounds pretty darn good". How good ? compare to the other subs you had. I'm new here.
For 22 hundreds it's a good price.

Craig,
No one plays that drumset, do they?

Can't wait for some measurements and listening impressions on the A7-900.

Craig,
No one plays that drumset, do they?

Can't wait for some measurements and listening impressions on the A7-900.


I am still waiting for the trinity review:)

The drumset belongs to our 10 year old ... yesterday, it got moved back to his bedroom, and I set up the BowFlex (see boxes in background) ...

Even in a 40x32 foot garage with the doors open, the A7-900 sounds great. It hits deep, yet is very "tight" ... I am not going to bring it into the house for critical listening until we do the GP session.

I am hoping to have 5-6 guys here for that, making moving the subs much easier.

I am still waiting for the trinity review:)

On behalf of the entire forum, there will be NO Trinity review until you get a new avatar picture ... :D

Seriously - The Trinity review will be wrapped up when we have the GP session here in 3 weeks.

The drumset belongs to our 10 year old ... yesterday, it got moved back to his bedroom, and I set up the BowFlex (see boxes in background) ...

Even in a 40x32 foot garage with the doors open, the A7-900 sounds great. It hits deep, yet is very "tight" ... I am not going to bring it into the house for critical listening until we do the GP session.

I am hoping to have 5-6 guys here for that, making moving the subs much easier.

I was just wondering about the drums because it is set-up as both left and righthanded(bit of a drummer myself).

Ron - The delivery went so smoothly, I was not even called home to help. Kudos to the troops !!!! :)

The garage will be seeing a lot of changes before winter hits ... the drum set is the first thing to go. We will be putting a full 5.1 system in ... and it is extremely well insulated, and is heated.

As my kids said ... "Dad will finally have his cigar room ... " :D

We finally get to "meet" craigsub in those pics. :cool: Wow, that's one huge sub! How much does it weigh? :eek:

Do you really believe HSU will come out and say they cut corners on outlaw subs?
DO you think outlaw will also do the same?

Remember this the more people the profit needs to be shared the less you get for the same amount.

Why do you think tc sounds is "raising" their prices. You will have to buy it through the dealer and not direct which adds a third person.

Now do we know the extent that gets cut, NO... and it is probably simple things we wont notice.

Of course not, that was kind of the point of that post. :)

Wow, that's one huge sub! How much does it weigh


http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=606

It is an A7-900 right? That means its 435 pounds.. Damn thats a beast.

He he good finally you got yourself a good sized sub. ;) I know what it is to move a monster sub,one that is huge,immensly capable and brutal when called to be.

These massive subs are for real HT fanatics. And great for music with large mains.

I have my eye on this exact model from ED.I'll see what happens,I am in the process of selling a few lesser units to fit a few BIG brutes.

Is this hobby fun or what? :D

I'll never be the same after seeing Crig's legs!


We placed it in our detatched, 5 car garage for now

nice! That's not the hot version of what comes out of the sub ports right?

THat Ed is some serious workman's com for UPS/FedEX!

Nice Craig! Keep us up on the dual 15" units as well. Did you get the enclosures yet?

I bet a couple A7-900's built in under a theater screenwall would be unreal.

Max ... The enclosures are here ... I made an erroneous assumption that the drivers would come with the appropriate mounting hardware, and they did not.

So ... I will be getting hardware this week ... and hopefully next weekend I will have time to install the drivers.

Wow that sub looks ready to eat the PB10!

If they made it a bit lower to the ground and longer (to compensate for lost volume) it could probably sneak by as a stealth coffee table.

To be truthful I haven't read this complete thread...just the first and last few pages. I encountered posting on eD subs, however none of the subs are ranked. Just wondering the reason behind it. I have read postings saying they are comparable to HSU and SVS, however, not sure why they are not ranked with them?

skghost ... The eD A2-300 scored an 83, tied with the SVS-PB10.

Here is the current scoring summary, with several under current review:

The scoring summary ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Pending subwoofers ...

Def Tech Trinity ... Here and being tested
Elemental Designs A7-900 ... Here and being tested
Creative Sounds DIY project ... Here, waiting driver installation
SVS PB13-Ultra ... TBD in mid August
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
AV123 MFW-15 ... Not sure of date
Dana Audio Sub 600 - Here - testing to be complete next weekend
Acculine A-Sub - in transit

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=606

It is an A7-900 right? That means its 435 pounds.. Damn thats a beast.

That's heavy. :eek:

Craigsub,

AVS should put you on the payroll. You are an asset to this forum for sure.
My friends think I'm crazy with a Ultra/2 and a Plus/2, but you be the man!

Craigsub,

AVS should put you on the payroll. You are an asset to this forum for sure.
My friends think I'm crazy with a Ultra/2 and a Plus/2, but you be the man!

I might not agree with him all the time but he is an asset.

AVS should put you on the payroll.
True.

Craigsub,

AVS should put you on the payroll. You are an asset to this forum for sure.
My friends think I'm crazy with a Ultra/2 and a Plus/2, but you be the man!

Thanks for the thought ... and here I was being happy to not have been BANNED yet ... :D

It makes me rather giddy to see that in someones possession that is not ours.

I am a little sad it's gone now though...

The drumset belongs to our 10 year old ... yesterday, it got moved back to his bedroom, and I set up the BowFlex (see boxes in background) ...

Is that the new Bowflex Revolution? You get to play with all of the new toys. I have an Ultimate and use the heck out of it, keeps all my joints feeling great, and I can use it everyday without hurting myself.

Any idea if you are going to compare the VMPS Large subwoofer?

I have a four ohm VMPS Large Subwoofer being driven by a bridged Soundcraftsmen MA5002A amplifier.

This thing sounds very scarry...

Any idea if you are going to compare the VMPS Large subwoofer?

I have a four ohm VMPS Large Subwoofer being driven by a bridged Soundcraftsmen MA5002A amplifier.

This thing sounds very scarry...

I have been a Brian Cheney/VMPS fan going back to 1979 ... and dropped him an email several months ago. John Casler responded that this was not their type of review process. I still love their stuff, and they are welcome anytime. :)

I think this sub would surprise a lot of people.

Could even stir up things at the top of the list... :)

I think this sub would surprise a lot of people.

Could even stir up things at the top of the list... :)

I owned a Circa 1994 larger sub, plus a pair of SuperTower II's for a few years ... loved that sub. Brian does his own thing ... which is cool. Who knows ... maybe someday ?

hey craig, would love to see some "sock down" pics of the trinity and the amp section if you get a chance :D

check your PMs craig...

Now we are talking! Finally something (A7-900) that is at least half the size of my Danley Labs DTS-20! Now all you have to do is get a for lift and stack two of them! Hmmm. I wonder how two of them would sound with the DTS-20 and the three JTR Growlers...

Now we are talking! Finally something (A7-900) that is at least half the size of my Danley Labs DTS-20! Now all you have to do is get a fork lift and stack two of them! Hmmm. I wonder how two of them would sound with the DTS-20 and the three JTR Growlers...

if you have a DTS-20 and 3 growlers, dts-20 covering the low bass and the growlers covering the mid bass. what would you do with the a7-900's ?

how about dual DTS-20's with the 3 growlers? :D


speaking of the a7-900, i can't wait to hear craig's review. i have a feeling it's going to eat everything for lunch :cool:

Now we are talking! Finally something (A7-900) that is at least half the size of my Danley Labs DTS-20! Now all you have to do is get a for lift and stack two of them! Hmmm. I wonder how two of them would sound with the DTS-20 and the three JTR Growlers...

When you see the Quad pack of 15 inchers to go with the A7-900, all for less than a DTS-20, maybe even YOU will approve ...:D

SB Willie ... I never got your PM.

OTK ... I know, still owe you those pics:o

Craig,What about 2 X subs in a HT
How would that do in say a 18X12 room.......

For the money (400 total) u would have 2 X subs and I would think they would sound pretty good?

if you have a DTS-20 and 3 growlers, dts-20 covering the low bass and the growlers covering the mid bass. what would you do with the a7-900's ?

how about dual DTS-20's with the 3 growlers? :D


speaking of the a7-900, i can't wait to hear craig's review. i have a feeling it's going to eat everything for lunch :cool:

I can't wait for a review either. I couldn't spring for that much money to order an A-700 but I do have the eD A5-350 coming in in the next two weeks or so.

Now we are talking! Finally something (A7-900) that is at least half the size of my Danley Labs DTS-20!

How does 2-18" subs that weigh 400 lbs equal half of 1-12" sub that is 200 lbs?

edit oh its about 18 cubic feet what a monster lol

How does 2-18" subs that weigh 400 lbs equal half of 1-12" sub that is 200 lbs?

i think he meant half the size of the whole package

The SVS PB-13 Ultra is here ... now if I can get to the hardware store and get the mounting screws for the Creative Sounds SDX-15's all the players will be ready to go.

I was planning on a nice, staggered 3 months for all these subs to arrive.

THAT worked well ... :D

I will also get to those pics ASAP ... tonight is our daughter's 14th birthday ... so we are kinda busy.

The SVS PB-13 Ultra is here ... now if I can get to the hardware store and get the mounting screws for the Creative Sounds SDX-15's all the players will be ready to go.

I was planning on a nice, staggered 3 months for all these subs to arrive.

THAT worked well ... :D

I will also get to those pics ASAP ... tonight is our daughter's 14th birthday ... so we are kinda busy.

the game is afoot :D

maybe i missed this somewhere but what kind of amp/crossovers will be used with the SDX-15's ? and it's going to be 2 of them in a sealed box right?

The SVS PB-13 Ultra is here ... now if I can get to the hardware store and get the mounting screws for the Creative Sounds SDX-15's all the players will be ready to go.

I was planning on a nice, staggered 3 months for all these subs to arrive.

THAT worked well ... :D

I will also get to those pics ASAP ... tonight is our daughter's 14th birthday ... so we are kinda busy.

hurry up and post pix!! ive been wanting to see a couple of the svs..

How many points would correspond to using two subwoofers instead of one? This information might help people decide whether, for instance, they want two X-Subs, or one PB10-NSD.

Lindahl ... as a lot of the points are awarded for sound quality, giving a definite answer is not easy ... but I would estimate 4-6 points.

The PB13-Ultra is fired up and we have a jazz CD playing. It is a much more reserved sub than I would have ever guessed from SVS ... on music it seems quite a bit like a sealed unit ... but this is based on all of 12 minutes worth of listening.

Lindahl ... as a lot of the points are awarded for sound quality, giving a definite answer is not easy ... but I would estimate 4-6 points.

The PB13-Ultra is fired up and we have a jazz CD playing. It is a much more reserved sub than I would have ever guessed from SVS ... on music it seems quite a bit like a sealed unit ... but this is based on all of 12 minutes worth of listening.


Craig is that bad or good? :confused:

Craig is that bad or good? :confused:

That is a good thing ... there is none of the "bloom" one often hears from a ported sub. The new Ultra is definitely a step up from the old one, in terms of musicality.

When I mention sealed subs, think DD-18, Fathoms, ACI-Maestro ... etc ...

That is a good thing ... there is none of the "bloom" one often hears from a ported sub. The new Ultra is definitely a step up from the old one, in terms of musicality.

When I mention sealed subs, think DD-18, Fathoms, ACI-Maestro ... etc ...


Thanks craig. Thats what I thought.

Werid question do you have a dolly to move all these subs I imagine your back is sore?

Thanks craig. Thats what I thought.

Werid question do you have a dolly to move all these subs I imagine your back is sore?

We do have a good dolly and my son is now big enough to help me to move things, too ... this new Ultra is pretty much a beast in terms of size, too.

BUT ... after the A7-900, it seems SO reasonable ... :D

CraigSub, do you know when you'll be doing the testing on the PB13U?

We do have a good dolly and my son is now big enough to help me to move things, too ... this new Ultra is pretty much a beast in terms of size, too.

BUT ... after the A7-900, it seems SO reasonable ... :D


Ya its funny the A7-900 and some of the EPik subwoofers make SVS look small and SVS and small are two things you don't see in the same sentance.lol

CraigSub, do you know when you'll be doing the testing on the PB13U?

Listening tests have already begun ... outdoor measurements will be on Sept 22 ... weather permitting ... when we have several guys here to help with the monster subs.

By monster, I mean the new Ultra, Def Tech Trinity, my DIY project, and the A7-900. All are 155 pounds or more.

Before then, I plan on testing the PB12-NSD, Hsu VTF-3 HO, Acculine A-Sub, and maybe a couple more.

We are off to dinner ... but for fun, I had to try out the Ice Field scene from Titan AE ... this new Ultra will shake a room with aplomb.

This beast-subwoofer test is going to be a blast ! :)

Craig.

When doing the tests, do you typically spend quite a bit of time adjusting levels, crossover locations, phase, and room placement?

Or is it set certain reference level with the mains, set crossover location, no phase adjustment, and they all go in the same place?

What do you typically run for a crossover point?

Alex - The crossover is set to 80 Hz, and each sub is EQ'ed to +/- 3 dB across its frequency range using a Velo SMS-1 - we want to hear the sub, not our room. :)

Phase is set using the normal methods, depending on variable phase or phase switches.

Subs are intitially set at flat to the mains, and later usually run 3-4 dB hot for movies.

Lindahl ... as a lot of the points are awarded for sound quality, giving a definite answer is not easy ... but I would estimate 4-6 points.

Quite fair. Although I'm quite out of my element here (as a DIYer), a very common application is the budget price point for a 5.1 mostly movie setup. In comparison between the PB10-NSD and the X-Sub, how would you rate two X-Subs against a PB10-NSD, if the primary concern is home theater, where fidelity of synthetic explosions is not critical?

Lindahl ... for strictly HT, I would look at either the PB-10 or the eD A2-300 .. they both get to below 20 Hz with authority. The X-sub just won't make it that deep.

Craig, maybe one of these is in order:

http://www.scmh.com/images/bgl_pic.jpg

Holds 3000 pounds. You shouldn't have a sub that heavy for at least a couple of years. :D

Mabey somesone has asked this already but where do all the subs go after testing? Are you planning on keeping the cream of the crop for yourself?

Craig sells some...good luck on hearing back from him. ;)

Max - We will be having a major subwoofer and speaker sale later this fall, for sure.

SbWillie .. I never did get a PM from you. I just sent you one, hopefully it gets to you. :)

I did wink...wasn't a personal attack..your work is greatly appreciated :Dhere.

Sb ... no worries. Got your PM and answered. :)

In about 10 minutes, I am firing up "V for Vendetta" ... I love the movie, and it has some great effects.

Craig - which grill did you get for the PB13? Could you post a pic of it?

Tx

I went with the cloth grill ... the magnet set up for it works perfectly, too.

Pics of the Ultra, the Def Tech, and the VTF-3 HO will be up later. :)

Definitely looking forward to the pics.:)

From what I understand no one got the metal grill. I had the metal one on order and received the cloth. I don't think the metal ones are available quite yet. The magnet system works perfectly though.

Bill3508

why are Epik subs getting hyped if they are new to HT?? Might not be as good of a transition as E.D.

Ok Craig, it's later, and we are all very impatient...

Things like dinner aren't important :D

Ok Craig, it's later, and we are all very impatient...

Things like dinner aren't important :D

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/lol.gif



:D:D:D

I'm looking to CS's review of the new SVS monster sub. :cool:

Here are some pics, to give everyone some reference ...

SVS PB13-Ultra and JL Audio Fathom 113:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1898.jpg

Ultra 13 and Def Tech Trinity:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1901.jpg

Ultra and Trinity without Grills:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1903.jpg

Trinity without grill:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1906.jpg

^ showing some woofer.
If you got it better flaunt it.

thanks for posting the pics craig

:D:cool:

Hey Craig,

I am not sure if this has been covered in nauseum but, how does that Ultra compare to the Fathom?

Hey Craig,

I am not sure if this has been covered in nauseum but, how does that Ultra compare to the Fathom?

I have had the Ultra for about 25 hours now, so it is a bit early to give a full report. The Ultra certainly is a great sounding sub ... we should wrap up some good A-B tests in the next 2 weeks.

Nice pics, Craig. I look forward to the results of your GP session. You are going to be testing the MFW-15 too, right?

Craig,
Do any of the subs vibrate on the hardwood?

Tim ... When the MFW-15 finally gets to production, yes, it will be tested out.

Kweezer ... the floor is built on a concrete sub-floor ... and vibration has never been an issue with every sub except a couple of Hsu subs in the old Mark II series.

great read craig. I look forward to your testing of the bmf & submersive.

Great pictures, Craig! I'm lookin' forward to your impressions! While I am confident in my purchase of the Rosenut PB13-Ultra, I am still very curious to see how it stacks up to the Fathom and the Def Tech Trinity!

Kweezer ... the floor is built on a concrete sub-floor ... and vibration has never been an issue with every sub except a couple of Hsu subs in the old Mark II series.

That's great! I have two PB13s on the way. I have hardwood on a slab also and my ultra/2 vibrates against floor, it even moves under extreme listening.

Kweezr - The older Hsu models had hard plastic feet, while the newer ones use the rubber feet, thus the problem with the older one.

The SVS is definitely more like the Fathom in terms of sound quality than it is the Def Tech.

Both the new Ultra and the Fathom have very clean, tight bass ... it hits then is gone. This, by the way, is my definition of "fast" bass.

Driver size is not an issue for fast bass ... the ability to hit the note then let it go (impulse response would be the measurement, though I don't think the right measurement capacity has yet been developed) is what defines "fast" bass.

During "V for Vendetta", there are dozens, perhaps 100's of bass notes which require one feels a slam in the chest. When "V" hits an opponent, and especially when the opponent hits the floor/ground, there should be a visceral PUNCH.

Both the Ultra and the Fathom manage this, while the Def Tech gives more of a rumble. The Def Tech, however, handles the explosion scenes effortlessly. It will shake the room harder on those scenes than will the Ultra or the Fathom. Without having taken the measurements yet, I would guess the Trinity is a killer sub in the 25 Hz and up arena, in terms of sheer output.

They are definitely 2 different sounds .. the Def Tech will be pleasing to quite a few people, and it is a worthy subwoofer.

IMO, the Ultra and Fathom exceed the Def Tech in accuracy and slam.

Is it just me or does Craig's pad sound like a hell of a fun place to hang out.:D

Once again, that is great to hear, Craig. While I was impressed with the speed of the 12" PC-Ultra, I am looking forward to the added speed from the 13" driver. One can never have enough speed in the bass section!

I was a little surprised to hear you say the PB13-U sounded more like a sealed sub! I guess we can assume that's because of the new Ultra driver.

Your continued impressions of the PB13-Ultra are making it harder for me to wait for it to arrive and for me to come home from work on Tuesday...

Max ... We are having fun here ... The Elemental Designs A7-900 is still in the 5 car garage ... in fact, it will have a permanent residence there. This room is 40x32x12 feet ... fully insulated, and a pretty dead room for something with a concrete floor. Of course, We are using an SL-500 and a Viper for room treatments ... :eek:

The A7-900 is the ONE sub I know that can handle this room. When done, it will have a full kitchen, cigar humidor, Toshiba 65 inch HDTV, Klipsch Cornwalls ... and is officially called manland.

Your quad sealed project looks like a killer, I can imagine the SQ you are getting with 4 of the same drivers the A7-900 uses ... for our theater room that currently houses the Ultra, Fathom and Trinity, I have two cabinets which will each house 4 Creative Sounds SDX-15's, sealed design, of course.

When you get the chance, feel free to post some pics of your project here ... I know the bassheads on this side of the subwoofer world would love your project.

Aether ... The new Ultra is a great all in one design that is also attractive for most Waf Situations.

My wife actually likes its looks as well ... and we are making plans on which subwoofer will be in which room when all is done.

The Fathom already has a home in her family room ... and if I can get the OK to keep my DIY project in the Theater room (working on the "it is easier to aske forgiveness than to get permission" concept), the Ultra will likely see duty in my basement theater - high end room.

Kweezr - The older Hsu models had hard plastic feet, while the newer ones use the rubber feet, thus the problem with the older one.

The SVS is definitely more like the Fathom in terms of sound quality than it is the Def Tech.

Both the new Ultra and the Fathom have very clean, tight bass ... it hits then is gone. This, by the way, is my definition of "fast" bass.

Driver size is not an issue for fast bass ... the ability to hit the note then let it go (impulse response would be the measurement, though I don't think the right measurement capacity has yet been developed) is what defines "fast" bass.

During "V for Vendetta", there are dozens, perhaps 100's of bass notes which require one feels a slam in the chest. When "V" hits an opponent, and especially when the opponent hits the floor/ground, there should be a visceral PUNCH.

Both the Ultra and the Fathom manage this, while the Def Tech gives more of a rumble. The Def Tech, however, handles the explosion scenes effortlessly. It will shake the room harder on those scenes than will the Ultra or the Fathom. Without having taken the measurements yet, I would guess the Trinity is a killer sub in the 25 Hz and up arena, in terms of sheer output.

They are definitely 2 different sounds .. the Def Tech will be pleasing to quite a few people, and it is a worthy subwoofer.

IMO, the Ultra and Fathom exceed the Def Tech in accuracy and slam.


Frist of all thanks for the pics craig the ultra driver looks sweet.lol

I would wager a guess that the up comming PB13Ultra/2 would be a better match in output to the trinity.



Aether ... The new Ultra is a great all in one design that is also attractive for most Waf Situations.

My wife actually likes its looks as well ... and we are making plans on which subwoofer will be in which room when all is done.

The Fathom already has a home in her family room ... and if I can get the OK to keep my DIY project in the Theater room (working on the "it is easier to aske forgiveness than to get permission" concept), the Ultra will likely see duty in my basement theater - high end room.

Craig I gotta ask how is the ultra WAF friendly I would have thought the ports and driver on the front would make it an unactractive offering even with the grill?

also craig do you prefer grills off or on?

Here are some pics, to give everyone some reference ...

SVS PB13-Ultra and JL Audio Fathom 113:
Wow... that JL Audio Fathom 113 is nice and small. I like that. :)

Is it just me or does Craig's pad sound like a hell of a fun place to hang out.:D
It's not just you. ;)

Thanks Craig... You obviously have been sucessful in life and you are still making time to have some fun and be an asset to others with the same hobby/interests. For that I give you a big thumbs up and a glass tipped in your direction my man.

My theater room is flying at this point. I'll put some more pics up soon. When I put the sub and my mains in place for a test fit, it really started to dawn on me how bananas this system is going to be. When I stood back to look at it, it was kind of like, "Oh sh*t.. Umm, ok." followed by an urge to laugh hysterically while running around in circles. Spec sheets and charts etc don't ever give things proper perspective.

I think we all have the same madness. I always tell my wife at least it's not drugs, booze, gambling or hookers, and she always knows where to find me..

Thanks Craig... You obviously have been sucessful in life and you are still making time to have some fun and be an asset to others with the same hobby/interests. For that I give you a big thumbs up and a glass tipped in your direction my man.

My theater room is flying at this point. I'll put some more pics up soon. When I put the sub and my mains in place for a test fit, it really started to dawn on me how bananas this system is going to be. When I stood back to look at it, it was kind of like, "Oh sh*t.. Umm, ok." followed by an urge to laugh hysterically while running around in circles. Spec sheets and charts etc don't ever give things proper perspective.

I think we all have the same madness. I always tell my wife at least it's not drugs, booze, gambling or hookers, and she always knows where to find me..

Very well said but I got to have my booze.lol

I mean really whats a great movie or listening session without an awesome cocktail and some tasty snacks.lols :D

Anyway back on topic

Frist of all thanks for the pics craig the ultra driver looks sweet.lol

I would wager a guess that the up comming PB13Ultra/2 would be a better match in output to the trinity.





Craig I gotta ask how is the ultra WAF friendly I would have thought the ports and driver on the front would make it an unactractive offering even with the grill?

also craig do you prefer grills off or on?

The Ultra/2 will likely have a lot more output from 25 Hz and up than the single driver Ultra - and much closer below 25 Hz.

The grill looks great with the Ultra ... you cannot see the driver nor the grills when the grill is in place, even though the flash of my wife's camera managed to get through the cloth.

Her favorite is the Fathom, by far, but she considers the Ultra to be pretty good looking, as well as the Trinity.

Don't ask about the A7-900 nor my DIY subs ... :D

Her favorite is the Fathom, by far...
Why, because of its size? Looks? Sound?

Looks and size ... our family room is pretty large, and Piano Gloss Black looks perfect with her decor. When one is planning on putting dual cabinets of 40x23x22 inches into one's dedicated theater room, keeping her happy with my subwoofer choices elsewhere is vital to my good health ... :eek:

Looks and size ...
Yeah, I figured. My wife is not too crazy about the size of the SVS Plus/2 sitting in our family room. One of these days I'll probably sell it and get something smaller.

keeping her happy with my subwoofer choices elsewhere is vital to my good health ... :eek:
Oh, I hear ya. ;)

Craig I really look forward to reading your listening impressions on these new subwoofers.

Ddavidson

Excellent pics and initial review of the new SVS sub, craigsub! :cool: I know I speak for the majority here when I say we are eager for the full review on the SVS vs. JL Audio subs. :cool:

I agree w/ that one poster who said craigsub's pad would be a sweet hangout place. :D

...we are eager for the full review on the SVS vs. JL Audio subs. :cool:
Bingo. :)

i would like to know the answer also.

i would like to know the answer also.

Was there a question I missed ?

...we are eager for the full review on the SVS vs. JL Audio subs.

This was the question/statement

Got it, guys ... The actual A-B testing between the Fathom and the Ultra will start this weekend. :)

A-B testing between the Fathom and the Ultra will start this weekend. :)
Good answer. ;)

Kweezr - The older Hsu models had hard plastic feet, while the newer ones use the rubber feet, thus the problem with the older one.

The SVS is definitely more like the Fathom in terms of sound quality than it is the Def Tech.

Both the new Ultra and the Fathom have very clean, tight bass ... it hits then is gone. This, by the way, is my definition of "fast" bass.

Driver size is not an issue for fast bass ... the ability to hit the note then let it go (impulse response would be the measurement, though I don't think the right measurement capacity has yet been developed) is what defines "fast" bass.

During "V for Vendetta", there are dozens, perhaps 100's of bass notes which require one feels a slam in the chest. When "V" hits an opponent, and especially when the opponent hits the floor/ground, there should be a visceral PUNCH.

Both the Ultra and the Fathom manage this, while the Def Tech gives more of a rumble. The Def Tech, however, handles the explosion scenes effortlessly. It will shake the room harder on those scenes than will the Ultra or the Fathom. Without having taken the measurements yet, I would guess the Trinity is a killer sub in the 25 Hz and up arena, in terms of sheer output.

They are definitely 2 different sounds .. the Def Tech will be pleasing to quite a few people, and it is a worthy subwoofer.

IMO, the Ultra and Fathom exceed the Def Tech in accuracy and slam.

Your comments on the Ultra having more PUNCH align with mine. When you say "fast", it amazes me how much more detail there is in your typical explosion passages. It's like when you tighten up the rumble a little you can feel the texture the sound engineer put into the track. Check out the Toy Story 2 intro... it makes me wonder if they actually contemplate each note in the blast of Buzz's jet pack, whereas before I assumed it somewhat random. Rumble is fun, too... just two different experiences.

Fun stuff!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1901.jpg

Regarding that picture, does anyone else wonder that grill frame? Not that it would matter much, but it looks like those circles around the ports were cut with a dull jig saw? :confused: Did they notice it afterwords when the grills were already made and cut them by themself?

Looks more like flash shadow.

Looks more like flash shadow.

It is notched around the ports, see link photos

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11433540&postcount=65

It is notched around the ports, see link photos

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11433540&postcount=65
Yeah, that's what I meant. But those notches look strange... Kinda like they were made afterwords or something.

skghost ... The eD A2-300 scored an 83, tied with the SVS-PB10.

Here is the current scoring summary, with several under current review:

The scoring summary ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
Elemental Designs A2-300: 83 points
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
BIC H-100: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

Pending subwoofers ...

Def Tech Trinity ... Here and being tested
Elemental Designs A7-900 ... Here and being tested
Creative Sounds DIY project ... Here, waiting driver installation
SVS PB13-Ultra ... TBD in mid August
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
AV123 MFW-15 ... Not sure of date
Dana Audio Sub 600 - Here - testing to be complete next weekend
Acculine A-Sub - in transit

My price range is in the $500-$700 range and I notice that you have the HSU VTF2-MarkIII and SVS PB12-NSD rated identically. I am interested in both of these and wondered which of these 2 would better fill an 18'x18' room with vaulted ceilings? I have never owned either brand so there is no built in allegiance. Thanks in advance!

- Bill

My price range is in the $500-$700 range and I notice that you have the HSU VTF2-MarkIII and SVS PB12-NSD rated identically. I am interested in both of these and wondered which of these 2 would better fill an 18'x18' room with vaulted ceilings? I have never owned either brand so there is no built in allegiance. Thanks in advance!

- Bill

Bill ... A pretty good guess is your room is close to 4000 cubic feet - and I would lean towards the PB12-NSD. It has more output than does the Hsu, and is impossible to bottom.

It also sounds very good on music, and is a great choice for filling a large room on a budget.

Hey Craig. How do you think the Ultra compares to the EP500? I currently own one and am looking to upgrade to something with more power and impact, but at the same time I don't want to lose any of the amazing sound quality of the EP500. Thanks!

Hey Craig - similar to Big_Screen_Bill's question, I am considering two subs - SVS PB12-NSD & eD A3-300. One big diff is that I've only got about 2000 - 2100 cu. ft. (15 x 17 x 8)

I definitely want a good "musical" subwoofer, and your suggestion to Big Bill has me bent strongly towards the PB-12. However, Bill wasn't looking at the eD A3 (which isn't ranked).

I'm new to HD and HT, and my house isn't particularly suited to HT installation. But we've been enjoying the new Pio plasma, and I've got a solid "go ahead" from the Mrs. for a sub. (currently using two big old Infinity Quantum 2's for my fronts, sans sub)

If it's a coin toss, then I'd save the $150 diff. What's your thinkin' on that?

P.S. I expect to have my plasma and my sound system calibrated in December... "AccuCal is coming to town!" He will help me get the sub positioned and "tuned" to the room.

(it's amusing - all these "hey Craig" messages. We must seem to you like school kids gathered around a favorite teacher.)

Bill ... A pretty good guess is your room is close to 4000 cubic feet - and I would lean towards the PB12-NSD. It has more output than does the Hsu, and is impossible to bottom.

It also sounds very good on music, and is a great choice for filling a large room on a budget.

But in a smaller room, where endless output is not required, might one say the HSU is a little more musical, but lacks some of the headroom of the SVS?

Usually, telling someone to purchase a particular subwoofer is something I try to avoid. Big_screen_bill is trying to fill a large room, and personally I would like to see him use a larger sub than he is asking about: A PB12-Plus/2, dual VTF-3.3, or an eD A7-600.

But, since he asked about the 2 subwoofers specifically, for a larger room, the SVS PB12-NSD is a good choice for output... plus if you do overdrive it, all that will happen is some compression.

In a smaller room, it is more of a close call.

EarkHog ... Both are excellent choices .. the SVS is a bit more powerful, but either will give you lots of deep, powerful bass. Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena.

Usually, telling someone to purchase a particular subwoofer is something I try to avoid. Big_screen_bill is trying to fill a large room, and personally I would like to see him use a larger sub than he is asking about: A PB12-Plus/2, dual VTF-3.3, or an eD A7-600.

But, since he asked about the 2 subwoofers specifically, for a larger room, the SVS PB12-NSD is a good choice for output... plus if you do overdrive it, all that will happen is some compression.

In a smaller room, it is more of a close call.

EarkHog ... Both are excellent choices .. the SVS is a bit more powerful, but either will give you lots of deep, powerful bass. Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena.

I do appreciate your advice Craig! The only reason I limited it to those two is that they were the only two that I had heard good things about, that were ranked high on your list, and are in my price range. If there are better options in the $500-$700 price range for this large of a room that opens to the kitchen, I am open to any and all suggestions. :) Thanks again for your assistance.

- Bill

Usually, telling someone to purchase a particular subwoofer is something I try to avoid. Big_screen_bill is trying to fill a large room, and personally I would like to see him use a larger sub than he is asking about: A PB12-Plus/2, dual VTF-3.3, or an eD A7-600.

But, since he asked about the 2 subwoofers specifically, for a larger room, the SVS PB12-NSD is a good choice for output... plus if you do overdrive it, all that will happen is some compression.

In a smaller room, it is more of a close call.

EarkHog ... Both are excellent choices .. the SVS is a bit more powerful, but either will give you lots of deep, powerful bass. Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena.

I as well appreciate this advice. I am waiting on my a3-300. I just called and they told me it should go out today. "Fast" bass as you have spoken about earlier in the thread as well as deep and powerful is what i want. I am anxious to see what $450 shipped gets me.:)

I'm curious where the SVS PB12-ISD (f/k/a the PB1-ISD) would fall in this list. Are there earlier versions of the list that had this sub in it? If so, what was its score?

Thanks!

--Mav

I'm curious where the SVS PB12-ISD (f/k/a the PB1-ISD) would fall in this list. Are there earlier versions of the list that had this sub in it? If so, what was its score?

Thanks!

--Mav

Mav,

As an original PB1-ISD owner, I sympathize with you, but I think our ship has sailed. The PB12-NSD has been around long enough that it is really the most relevant of the two to test today. My guess is the ISD would fall close to the PB12-NSD, but should be a notch or two lower due to the better NSD driver in the current model. As an aside, after using the ISD driver for years in my PB12, I have an order in for the NSD driver to swap with the ISD driver. I certainly don't feel anything is lacking in the ISD driver, but I am looking forward to any improvements the NSD driver might offer.

I am more than happy with my Hsu VTF-2 MK3 in my 11x12x10 office and I would like another Hsu in my living room that I am about to set up however; the wife does not want any black speakers including the sub. So I am looking at SVS. The LR is 21x17x9 with openings into other rooms so the sub will need to be corner loaded. I am looking for something that sounds good in music and HT. With the speakers that I plan to buy, the PB 3U is the closest wood match and I would probably leave it on 15Hz.

So my questions...

1.) Is this too much sub for this room?
2.) Any other brands at this price with comparable sound, aesthetics?
3.) What is the PB 13 ultra/2?


Thanks,

I am more than happy with my Hsu VTF-2 MK3 in my 11x12x10 office and I would like another Hsu in my living room that I am about to set up however; the wife does not want any black speakers including the sub. So I am looking at SVS. The LR is 21x17x9 with openings into other rooms so the sub will need to be corner loaded. I am looking for something that sounds good in music and HT. With the speakers that I plan to buy, the PB 3U is the closest wood match and I would probably leave it on 15Hz.

So my questions...

1.) Is this too much sub for this room?
2.) Any other brands at this price with comparable sound, aesthetics?
3.) What is the PB 13 ultra/2?


Thanks,

I can't give a good anwser to first two but I can anwser the third question.

the PB13ultra/2 is a sub that will be comming out in 2008 (I would guess first half of the year and maybe early in the year) that is a dual driver box subwoofer like the pbplus/2. So bascially a sub with 2 ultra 13 woofers, bigger box, bigger amp, and front firing.

("the PB13ultra/2 is a sub that will be comming out in 2008 (I would guess first half of the year and maybe early in the year) that is a dual driver box subwoofer like the pbplus/2. So bascially a sub with 2 ultra 13 woofers, bigger box, bigger amp, and front firing.")



Any photo's of this beast yet? What amp are they going to use?:D:D

So my questions...

1.) Is this too much sub for this room?
2.) Any other brands at this price with comparable sound, aesthetics?
3.) What is the PB 13 ultra/2?


Thanks,
Using two subs is alway better, both for music and movies. It evens out the bass response through out the room.
Two of the 13U would be a total of 1500w. Your LR is within 6", both directions, to my LR. And I run two subs @800w/ea.
I like to keep to "my standard" for total system power of 1w/cuft of room space, or at least very close to that.
I run 3130w in a room that is 3130cuft, with all 3 subs on(one is LFE only). With just the two main subs on, I still push 2880w, counting the 1280w from all 7 main channels.
At that ratio of w/cuft the system never gets close to max output, even with 115db at the seated position.

Thanks for the awesome explanation. Could I get that in English please? I would really appreciate a breakdown of what that means. I currently have a 200w 12" sub in there and it has a nice kick at 30% power. My wife will not let me run it any louder since we can hear my daughter's vid games thumping in our bedroom. I am going to replace it though since I want more definition. I only have room for one sub and I light find a way to hide a Hsu MBM if it sounds as good as the owners are saying. Other than that. I will have to go with just one sub.

HMMMMM
Come to think of it, I plan on having JBL L890s in my LR. It would be nice to have sub right next to each of the mains:) I would never hear the end of it but it would be pretty cool;):D. I can just see it now. A nice 52" LCD flanked by two mains and two subs and then hiding the Hsu MBM across the room in another corner...That brings up another question. Does it make a big difference if one is corner loaded and the other isn't?



Thanks,

I just now noticed that you are running the Studio L series and in particular the L890. The output on those, by themselves is almost enough, assuming you are using at least a 200wpc amp on the L890s.
When I had a pair of L890s I was kicking them with 220wpc amp. So only using one sub should be good.

But what is there to explain? cuft = cubic feet, W x L x H of the room.

By the numbers you provided for your room dimensions, you have 3213 cubic feet. Which is just a bit larger than my LR. So if it was my room I would want a total system power of 3200 watts, or around 3000w at least. That's the added sum of watts delivered to all speakers in the system, including the sub(s). That total is at max output, which you won't use, but it gives you plenty of head room for peak power situations, like canons going off or any other kind of special effects.

("the PB13ultra/2 is a sub that will be comming out in 2008 (I would guess first half of the year and maybe early in the year) that is a dual driver box subwoofer like the pbplus/2. So bascially a sub with 2 ultra 13 woofers, bigger box, bigger amp, and front firing.")



Any photo's of this beast yet? What amp are they going to use?:D:D

No its still in development and we only a few tid bits from SVS and speculation.


Using two subs is alway better, both for music and movies. It evens out the bass response through out the room.
Two of the 13U would be a total of 1500w. Your LR is within 6", both directions, to my LR. And I run two subs @800w/ea.
I like to keep to "my standard" for total system power of 1w/cuft of room space, or at least very close to that.
I run 3130w in a room that is 3130cuft, with all 3 subs on(one is LFE only). With just the two main subs on, I still push 2880w, counting the 1280w from all 7 main channels.
At that ratio of w/cuft the system never gets close to max output, even with 115db at the seated position.

Yes generally two subwoofers are better than one but they take more time calibrate and eq and so on.

Also 1 wattage per cubic foot is a good forlumla but this is generally not a perfect formula as wattage isn't alway equal but this idea is usally for refrence level playbaack but I would encourge people not be overaly worried about wattage.

Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena.

Hello Craig,

Just wondering if you are also going to get an A5-350? That should most certainly be on your list to test. I think it would easily compete with more expensive models like the HSU HO. I have one on order and should have it in little over a week.

understood and most appreciated. I can just see those cherry L890s with a PB13U sitting next to each one. I love the Studio L sound and think this would make a great setup. I am just going to power the system with a PIO 94. I have an 84 in my office and it drives them just fine.


Thanks,

I have asked Ed over at SVS about the new ultra/2 13. He says the performance will be exactly the same as two ultra 13's. So waiting is really
not an issue.

That being said, 2 subs can correct alot of room issues that one cannot.

That being said, 2 subs can correct alot of room issues that one cannot.
Why is that? How exactly does that "work"?

Craigsub,

SO how do they compare the f113 and the Ultra 13 ???

On movies,on music and in SPL/extension tests.

Thanks alot for the dedication,not many have the drive to do all this testing.

The Definitive Trinity I have to admit looks great with no grille. Looks like Definitive did a great job with the latest subs.

Why is that? How exactly does that "work"?
The standing wave node/null pattern in a room is partly a function of the placement of the sub. Two subs in different places can even out the resonance patterns; one generally still needs EQ and room treatments to fine tune frequency response.
Dual subs allow each one to work half as hard for the same sould level, reducing distortion. Dual subs placed one on each side are often credited with subjectively widening and deepening the sound field and making it sound more immersive, although these effects vary with the crossover frequency to the subs, specific sub placement and variations in room acoustics.
The PB13Ultra or PC13Ultra would be a good match for your room and system;
the various tuning options would allow you to selectively roll off the lowest bass to reduce transfer to your daughter's bedroom.

Craigsub,

SO how do they compare the f113 and the Ultra 13 ???

On movies,on music and in SPL/extension tests.

Thanks alot for the dedication,not many have the drive to do all this testing.

The Definitive Trinity I have to admit looks great with no grille. Looks like Definitive did a great job with the latest subs.

The Fathom will be put back in the system this weekend, and the comparison will begin then ... :)

I have asked Ed over at SVS about the new ultra/2 13. He says the performance will be exactly the same as two ultra 13's. So waiting is really
not an issue.



That's why I went duals, also was told they would have an edge on the ultra/2 due to increased enclosure size.

Hello Craig,

Just wondering if you are also going to get an A5-350? That should most certainly be on your list to test. I think it would easily compete with more expensive models like the HSU HO. I have one on order and should have it in little over a week.

Perhaps in October-November, after we get things settled here. It sure looks like a winner, 15 inch long throw driver, nice size cabinet ... $600.

Craig,
Have you had time to look at the ED A3-300?
I am waiting on mine and I have a 2000cf room. Do you think this sub will work for this size room?
If you have already answered this excuse me , if not would like to know your opinion as you have thier a2-300 rated at 83 I think, do you think this would be better than that and if so how much? I know it would be a guess as you have not heard this sub but it would be a much more educated one based on your experience.
Thanks

- Originally Posted by craigsub
"Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena."


Craig, you said you don't like to tell folks which sub they should buy, and I can sure appreciate that. But I gotta tell ya, after your reply above, I didn't waste any time getting my order sent in to eD. I don't expect it for 4 - 6 weeks, but I am pretty sure it's way more than I really need - which is pretty cool. I watched a movie tonight, and all I could think about was how it was GOING to sound when the Big Boy finally gets in.

Jeffrey, you said you would get your A5 next week. How long will it take from the time you ordered it?

- Originally Posted by craigsub
"Now ... the new A3-350 (I think that is the 15 incher from eD) for $600 delivered is likely going to be a standard bearer in the $600 sub arena."


Craig, you said you don't like to tell folks which sub they should buy, and I can sure appreciate that. But I gotta tell ya, after your reply above, I didn't waste any time getting my order sent in to eD. I don't expect it for 4 - 6 weeks, but I am pretty sure it's way more than I really need - which is pretty cool. I watched a movie tonight, and all I could think about was how it was GOING to sound when the Big Boy finally gets in.

Jeffrey, you said you would get your A5 next week. How long will it take from the time you ordered it?

EArkhog, I did say "A" standard bearer, not "THE" standard bearer. Based on experience with the A2-300 and the A7-900, I am pretty sure the A3-350 will be on the "short list" for $600 subs.

Sorry if I confused anyone with my earlier comment. :)

EArkhog, I did say "A" standard bearer, not "THE" standard bearer. Based on experience with the A2-300 and the A7-900, I am pretty sure the A3-350 will be on the "short list" for $600 subs.

Sorry if I confused anyone with my earlier comment. :)

Okay, I'm cool with that (but I admit I missed that subtle 'A'/'the' distinction). Still I doubt I will regret this purchase.

Thanks for your input. (didn't want to say '...advice') ;)

Craig,
I would also be interested in a reply or any thoughts you had in regards to deez last post. For I am in pretty much the same situation as deez. I have a room size of 11x21x8 and I'm considering the A3-300. Any thoughts or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

hate to chime in but the a3-300 is discontinued. go with a little more and get that a3-350 for 600 shipped

hate to chime in but the a3-300 is discontinued. go with a little more and get that a3-350 for 600 shipped

Actually it's the A5-300 that was discontinued...the A3-300 will be sticking around for a long time.

hate to chime in but the a3-300 is discontinued. go with a little more and get that a3-350 for 600 shipped


A5-350.


Ian ;)

i got pwnt

The biz trip is over, and we are ready to start the JL Audio Fathom 113 vs. SVS PB-13 Ultra comparison, which will be mostly listening, with some indoor measurements added.

I also finished the dual 15 inch SDX-15 inch sealed project, and will hopefully get it into the mix over the long weekend.

we are ready to start the JL Audio Fathom 113 vs. SVS PB-13 Ultra comparison...
:)

I also finished the dual 15 inch SDX-15 inch sealed project, and will hopefully get it into the mix over the long weekend.

i can't wait to see how that project works out :cool:

Does Michael Buffer begin this match with "Let's get ready to rumble?" I know, bad joke.. But seems appropriate.

We are ready to roll. Both subs are hooked into the SMS-1, and are EQ'ed to +/- 3 dB from 18 Hz and up ... the cool thing is we can now flip between subs in about 5 seconds.

Let's roll ! :)

Sounds interesting...

I also finished the dual 15 inch SDX-15 inch sealed project, and will hopefully get it into the mix over the long weekend.
But, do you have any pics?

We are ready to roll. Both subs are hooked into the SMS-1, and are EQ'ed to +/- 3 dB from 18 Hz and up ... the cool thing is we can now flip between subs in about 5 seconds.Craig, that's very cool. While I don't care which scores higher, I think all the subs you're currently looking at are exceptional. I've got to chuckle everytime I see the A7-900, but I bet it just smears folks with pressure. I, sort of, envy you the opportunity, just not sure I'd want to invest(the money:D) the time or take the flack...rest assured I'll soak it up. Have fun.

We are ready to roll. Both subs are hooked into the SMS-1, and are EQ'ed to +/- 3 dB from 18 Hz and up ... the cool thing is we can now flip between subs in about 5 seconds.
So? How's it going?

Don't we wish we were there. (tongues dripping)

Don't we wish we were there. (tongues dripping)

I think Craig should start doing simulcasts on D* in HD!! :) Opps.. There are other service providers so we can include them too!! :D

Guys .. Not a lot to report yet. We watched "Pride" last night, and also an episode of "Prison Break". Neither has enough bass to warrant much comment.

The dual 15 inch DIY project is hooked up in our garage, and sounds terrible. The only amp that can drive it from our 2 channel system out there is the Buttkicker amp, which turned in lousy results when Chuck tested it out.

I won't comment until we can get it inside, driven by the Behringer, and EQ'ed by the SMS-1.

We watched "Pride" last night, and also an episode of "Prison Break". Neither has enough bass to warrant much comment.
Well then why did you watch them ?!?!?!



:p

Well then why did you watch them ?!?!?!



:p

Because my wife told me to watch Pride with my 16 year old son, and Prison Break with her.

The woman DOES have my food before I see it, would you tell her no ?

I didn't think so ... :D

I think Craig should start doing simulcasts on D* in HD!! :) Opps.. There are other service providers so we can include them too!! :D

some youtube vids of the testing would be cool :D

Here is a graph of the Fathom on WOTW, the machines emerging scene. This is the Fathom 113 ... unfortunately, the SVS seems to be completely dead.

I normally run 2 RCA cords from the SMS-1 ... one to each sub. It is then as simple as hitting the proper EQ setting for the sub which is on, and turning the other off.

The Fathom is working fine ... the SVS doing nothing. So ... I tried taking the SVS cord to the Fathom ... no problems. When I then tried the Fathom's cord into the SVS, still nothing.

I will contact SVS on Tuesday to get some assistance.

And it looks like it will be a Def Tech vs. JL Audio test for a while.

Here is the Fathom on the machines scene in our upstairs, hard to fill room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/WOTWJL.jpg

Here is the same scene on the Def Tech:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/Deftechwotw.jpg

The Def Tech is one fantastic home theater subwoofer ... no single sub has subjectively shaken this room on WOTW like the Def Tech did ... it was absolutely menacing.

the SVS seems to be completely dead.

it looks like it will be a Def Tech vs. JL Audio test for a while.
Oh, wow.... major bummer. :(

I would assume that you have already checked the fuse?

Does Michael Buffer begin this match with "Let's get ready to rumble?" I know, bad joke.. But seems appropriate.

craigsub and the crew will literally be rumbling. :D

That sux about SVS sub being dead. I hope that's an anomaly and not a design flaw. :eek:

I don't have the correct tool for removing the amp - neither a screw driver nor Allen wrench will work. ... it was operating just fine for the first week. It could be as simple as a loose wire, too. It has been moved several times during the comparison.

I will talk to the SVS guys on Tuesday, and get suggestions from them.

I don't think it is a design flaw ... the amp turns on just fine, green light and all. There is just no sound ... suggesting a wire came loose.

In the meantime, having the chance to compare the Fathom to the Def Tech is ok ... :)

I don't have the correct tool for removing the amp - neither a screw driver nor Allen wrench will work.

It probably takes torx bits. If they look like hex heads but more like a six-pointed star, they are torx. Anyone who sells cars should have torx drives.:)

I had the same problem with me first SVS sub. It just stopped making sound, but the amp showed it was receiving a signal. This had the DB12.2 driver. Ron sent me a replacement amp and a 12.3 driver. Instead of replacing one at a time to isolate the failure, I just slapped them both in. So I never confirmed what failed. I sent the amp back (at SVS expense) and was told to keep the driver (I have it around somewhere). I did put a VOM on the coil and it read open on all ranges. So I assume the VC opened up. As close as you are to SVS, they should be able to get you a replacement rather quickly.

Sears is good about carrying those odd screw heads.

They are not Torx screws. They have a rectangular socket rather than star/hex. I don't have a suitable bit for this either.

I won't comment until we can get it inside, driven by the Behringer, and EQ'ed by the SMS-1.

As with any sealed subwoofer, you absolutely need EQ (unless you have a really small room), otherwise, yes, it'll sound like crap - and especially when driven by a Buttsniffer.