In speaking with a "HT expert" (i.e. internet projector dealer), we discussed the AX100u and the Z5 as choices for a light controlled basement.

He suggested that the Z5 should be paired with the Dalite High power (or other such very high gain screen) to achieve the brightness that the AX100u can put out on a low gain screen (1.0-1.2).

Furthermore, he stated that since my projector will be mounted so that the lense is just above the top of the screen level, that with the Dalite HP I should see minimal variance in brightness between normal viewing height (sitting down) and standing up in the room.

Any thoughts on whether any of this is good advice or not? Anyone have these two paired up and can provide some experience or even screen shots of it in action?

I received similar advice when I was shopping for my PJ.

Try to look at it in terms of what combination of screen (gain) and pj light output will give you the luminescence you need. For a typical commercial theater, that number is between 12 to 16 foot-Lamberts.

Simple calculation; PJ light output (after calibration) in best mode x screen gain / sq. ft of the screen surface. Assuming that the Z5 is about 200 lumems in best mode (dark theater) x high-gain screen; say 2.5 / 100" screen (49*87/144=29.6)

So; 200 x 2.5/29.6 = 16.9 ftL. This would work just fine.

Problem is I'm ceiling mounted, so I'd need an angular reflected screen, and those are expensive (i.e. Firehawk, don' t know of any others?).

So for the difference in price for an angular reflected screen, I'm probably better off just getting a high lumen projector and a lower gain screen (i.e. 1.4-1.5).

I'm in the same boat. Z5 ceiling mounted. Currently projected on a painted wall. Need more gain. Do I really need an angular reflected screen, and if so, is there an alternative (i.e. less expensive) to the Firehawk?

Is the Z5 too dark?
Hmm, most people say it's plenty bright for up to 100".

I ordered a Z5, but haven't gotten it yet. You got me worried :)

I heard Creative Cinema was a good mode to use. Also, you could try moving the projector slightly closer to the screen and opening the lens more to improve brightness (wider angle vs. telescopic). Don't move it too close though, because then it will mess up the PQ. Just experiment.

Going with a 2.5 gain screen is goign to ruin your contrast ratios. Contrast is the single most important thing for picture quality, followed by color accuracy, sharpness, and then resolution (as long as resolutions are in upper 720p or higher ranges).

Going with a 2.5 gain screen is goign to ruin your contrast ratios. Contrast is the single most important thing for picture quality, followed by color accuracy, sharpness, and then resolution (as long as resolutions are in upper 720p or higher ranges).

Actually, this is completely false. The contrast ratio will remain precisely the same regardless of what type of screen is used, as the contrast ratio is a performance ability of the projector, not of the screen.

A higher gain screen, however, likely will increase the overall black level, but this is a tradeoff many users of high gain screens are more than willing to make, because it often allows for greater perception of detail in dark areas of the picture, and the perceived contrast is often actually increased, because the image is much brighter overall, but YMMV.

Before completely ruling out any type of screen, I would recommend attempting to see different types for yourself and decide what looks good to you, as this obviously is the most important consideration...

Regards.

A higher gain screen, however, likely will increase the overall black level, but this is a tradeoff many users of high gain screens are more than willing to make, because it often allows for greater perception of detail in dark areas of the picture,.

Did you mean to say that the higher gain screen would decrease the overall black level (not increase)?

Actually, by increase, I meant raise...raise and lower would be a better way to put is as opposed to increase and decrease...

In speaking with a "HT expert" (i.e. internet projector dealer), we discussed the AX100u and the Z5 as choices for a light controlled basement.

He suggested that the Z5 should be paired with the Dalite High power (or other such very high gain screen) to achieve the brightness that the AX100u can put out on a low gain screen (1.0-1.2).

Furthermore, he stated that since my projector will be mounted so that the lense is just above the top of the screen level, that with the Dalite HP I should see minimal variance in brightness between normal viewing height (sitting down) and standing up in the room.

Any thoughts on whether any of this is good advice or not? Anyone have these two paired up and can provide some experience or even screen shots of it in action?

The answer you are looking for is highly subjective and based on what you are looking to achieve. If you go with the Z5 and a high power screen or if you go with a Panny and a moderate gain screen, you will be able to produce a very bright picture that will appear to 'pop' off the wall when your theater is dark and will be better for viewing when you have some (but not much) ambient light. Keep in mind that in doing so you will be reducing the overall black levels and you'll have a narrower viewing cone. That being said, if you're looking at getting a bright display that jumps off the screen then go for it.

Now, if you're like me and planning to get your projector calibrated by an ISF Tech, then there is no need for the level of brightness that you would be getting with a High Power screen. I'm looking for a relatively neutral screen that provides good overall colour balance with strong black levels (I'm a black level junkie...nothing drives me nuts more than grey blacks). I'm currently looking at the Da-Lite Cinema Vision 1.3 gain with either the Z4 or Z5.

Actually, this is completely false. The contrast ratio will remain precisely the same regardless of what type of screen is used, as the contrast ratio is a performance ability of the projector, not of the screen.

A higher gain screen, however, likely will increase the overall black level

That is a contradiction in statement, if the black levels become worse, then you just lowered your contrast ratio. Contrast ratio is the measurement of variation between the darkest and lightest colors. A higher gain screen lowers contrast, it's technically impossible for it not to.

Black levels being more gray means the contrast measurement would be lower. It's not just blacks that will be lighter, it's all dark colors. That is why high gain screens lower your contrast.

Will a 2.5 Gain Screen ruin the contrast? Many experts on LCD projectors have said yes it does. It can cut the contrast ratios in half, go look at it on the net. You can find the info by googling.

One other thing before someone gives the argument --- "but the brighter colors will be brighter so contrast stays the same".

I've read in several places this is a misnomer. The brighter colors are less affected by the gain because of the way light works. A larger differential in gain between a color changes the brightness more severely (the blacks will be more affected than the whites).

Could I have read something on the Internet that was wrong? Yes, maybe. But almost everywhere I read not to use screens with that high gain unless you absolutely have to.

That is a contradiction in statement, if the black levels become worse, then you just lowered your contrast ratio. Contrast ratio is the measurement of variation between the darkest and lightest colors. A higher gain screen lowers contrast, it's technically impossible for it not to.

Black levels being more gray means the contrast measurement would be lower. It's not just blacks that will be lighter, it's all dark colors. That is why high gain screens lower your contrast.

Will a 2.5 Gain Screen ruin the contrast? Many experts on LCD projectors have said yes it does. It can cut the contrast ratios in half, go look at it on the net. You can find the info by googling.

This will be my last post in this thread, as I'm not going to repeatedly attempt to convince you of something that is well regarded as established fact....

Contrast ratio is a performance attribute of the projector, and NOT of the screen.

The contrast ratio WILL remain exactly the same, regardless of what screen is used. Even if the black level is raised, the contrast ratio WILL remain the same.

It seems that you have confused perceived contrast with contrast ratio. Even if that is the case, it can be argued that perceived contrast can be increased with a high gain screen, because when the brighter portions of an image become alot brighter, the darker areas tend to appear to be even darker than they actually are.

I certainly am hesitant to challenge indisputable evidence such as "experts say so, it's on the internet, google it" etc, but I would remind you that you are currently reading this post on the AV Science Forum, which arguably is the leading source available for reliable and accurate information regarding front projection.

I would recommend you read some of the threads here regarding high gain screens, and become a bit better informed before you start making strong recommendations and challenging others, starting with these:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=262466
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773065

Lastly, I certainly never said a high gain screen will be a good fit for everyone. Every screen choice involves tradeoffs, and the best thing a person can do is research so that an informed decision can be made, and if possible, see and compare different types of screens, and choose what looks best to them. By making sweeping statements like "high gain screens are bad, never use one", you're really not helping anyone, especially considering the fact that you apparently don't even understand the performance of same, or even what contrast ratio is and how it works.

Regards.

You are the one spewing information. Go read the projector screen reviews at any major site, including projector central.

Why do you think the brighter projectors generally have lower contrast? It's because as you raise brightness you lose contrast unless you can use special methods, like reflective surfaces on LCOS/DLP TV's.

You probably dont lose contrast much on a $2,000 high-gain reflective screen. But who pays that much for a screen?

Dont make me go find the exact article, I don't want to re-read all those reviews. There is at least 5 of them that talk about measurable contrast loss.

If you turn up the brightness on your projector and take a measurement, you will lose contrast. That is not opinion, that is in just about every review you read. Only the very best screens can preserve the contrast while raising the brightness.

That is also why they say "best mode" I got 480 contrast ratio and in this mode I got 300 ratio. Also the reviews complain about having to re-calibrate the projector for certain imperfections in the screens (hot spots, etc...). This can also cause you to have to adjust settings whihc can end up in a loss of contrast.

Every screen is different, there are screens that can even cause losses in resolution. Not perceived resolution, actual resolution --- not perceived contrast, actual contrast.

...

Units:

The links you used as a reference to prove the screen has no effect on contrast state the opposite of what you stated .

This is from your own links! Why do people post links contradicting their own statements.

"But the point is clear: if you don't have a "black hole" for a theater, your choice of screen can make a difference in the contrast ratio you experience! "

just go by your eyes man, i got a z3 and paired it with a hi power and love it, i had a grey screen before, but now the image pops out at me, im not obsessing over the blacks or anything, black levels are overated in my opinion, if i were a film maker i would make my movie with no blacks what so ever! haha j/k

hah, I agree go by the eyes. Problem is no one has any screens I can look at. I'm shopping for a new screen as well. I think 1.7 gain would be good for the Z5 that I just bought.

It is getting here today. Come on UPS hurry up!

So high gain screens DO soften blacks? I'm thinking about the Carada high gain, 118 inch for a Z5, but would hate to lose blacks as a tradeoff. Ideally, I'd love to get a screen that can let me zoom in for a huge image yet still give me the contrast and brightness I can get when the lens is fully zoomed out. Am I dreaming in low-contrast technicolor?

Anyone?

i had a sample of the Carada BW and I compared it to my old Greywolf screen I could barely tell a difference, the Carada BW looked really good, but I needed more power becuase of my ambient light situation, Carada definitely has a great deal with their prices

From what I've read, the more expensive screens can actually increase contrast and brightness, but I think it works the other way around on the cheaper ones. However, look at the individual screen reviews on projector central and other places. This should give you an idea which ones have good black levels.

So high gain screens DO soften blacks? I'm thinking about the Carada high gain, 118 inch for a Z5, but would hate to lose blacks as a tradeoff. Ideally, I'd love to get a screen that can let me zoom in for a huge image yet still give me the contrast and brightness I can get when the lens is fully zoomed out. Am I dreaming in low-contrast technicolor?

I'd read this post to learn more about black levels with HG screens.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=262466

That review is great and all but that silverstar screen costs like $1,500+. The Da-Lite high power screens are reasonable ($400ish), but even that seems like a lot to spend on a screen for 1K - 2K projector.

Then the problem becomes, where to spend the money, on the PJ or the screen. My guess is that the projector you choose should be more important than the screen.

I think I'd rather have a $4,000/1080p projector on a cheapo white matte screen, than a 720p projector on a $1,500 screen. I can understand people spending that much on a screen when money is no issue, or when they already have a super high-end projector.

I guess most of us should stick with screen-goo or cheapo screens until we get better projectors, I have the Sanyo Z5 btw.

I ended up buying a cheap elite screen, it was only $60. I'm sure it's not great, but we shall see if it is good enough. Hopefully someone will eventually make some higher quality budget screens, but don't hold your breathe.