Here's a small teaser screenshot. New 13ft 2.40 wide screen!
Everything dialed in, except for grey scale/colorimetry. These HFQ900 lens are uber sharp.. thinest lines I've ever seen, edge to edge! More to come tomorrow.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/widescreen_720.jpg

SCHWEET!!!! Great job Gino!! :^)

Cliff

That's funny really when you think about it.

It started with the select few of us that actually had a CRT projector. People oohed and aahed over composite video on a 6' wide screen with 450 lumens.

Then some elitists added a line doubler. 480p, HOT DAMN!

A few years ago, people were bragging about upgrades from ES to EM focusing sets.

Then people were bragging about getting a 9" set.

Now that's not even good enough, the blender/stackers need to brag about the biggest screen size.

Gotta love it!

Great job Gino!

New 13ft 2.40 wide screen! Hah - that 's the way to do it!

Nick ;)

Congratulations, Gino! No matter how many times I look at the picture, I still can't quite seem to grasp the scope of the projected image.

How are the projectors placed in the room, and what sort of throw angle are you using?

Gino

Nice work; what PJ Height and Width are you running? Is it still punchy? :-)

Nice one GINO!!!

Some questions:

1. Is it punchy? Would you go even a bit bigger? :D :D :D

2. What screen material? SMX? Gain?

Regards!

Hah - that 's the way to do it!

Nick ;)

Yes, Maximum raster usage with this setup. Actually, I think it was after reading your posts Nick that convinced me that you really need to go 2.35/2.40 to gain maximum benefits with blending.

Congratulations, Gino! No matter how many times I look at the picture, I still can't quite seem to grasp the scope of the projected image.

How are the projectors placed in the room, and what sort of throw angle are you using?

Thanks Slarti. The projectors are floor mounted, 10 degree inclination. 113" throw. If you actually brighten your monitor, you can see where the projectors are positioned in the picture. They appear towards the edges of the screen, but they aren't that far apart, it's all perspective. They are a good 45" apart though, perfect since my centre channel is angled upwards from below screen. If you've tried floor/table mounted blending, the projectors can be in your line of sight. So I've built a stage 17" tall immeditely behind them, so they are unobtrusive.

Nice work; what PJ Height and Width are you running? Is it still punchy? :-)

Tim, screen is 65" x 156", each projector doing 65" x 86" with 10% overlap. I've only moved the Ultra's back 3 inches from before to fill the screen, so there'd be only a slight drop in light output in 16:9 mode , but because of the increased raster usage, it is brighter in 2.40.

It is super punchy in 16:9. Best I've seen it. When in 2.40 mode, it loses some. This is because you need to zoom in on the picture to fill the screen since your feeding it 16:9. So instead of watching 1080 horizontal lines, you're only getting 800 horizontal lines, which are stretched. I'm using the VP50 to achieve this CIH setup. Because of the reduced lines, I'm feeding 1600x1200 to each projector. If I move my viewing position back by another 1', the punchiness is back, so I think I'm going to move the stage/seating back some more.


1. Is it punchy? Would you go even a bit bigger? :D :D :D

2. What screen material? SMX? Gain?


Andres, see my reply above. No, this is the absolute maximum I'd ever think about going. The projectors are still running comfortably, and still have a short throw with this setup. Any wider, and you'll start losing that light output and have to drive them harder. The new HFQ lens really help going this size though, so I suggest you start looking!

No, not SMX. Even though by all reports this is a very good material, I am not in any need of perf screens. My speaker designer made the front speakers so the sound imaging still feels like it's coming from screen centre, and not below the screen, so it works a treat already, without compromising sound quality. Wanted to keep this audiophile grade ;)

It's 1.0 Gain, and its amazing how much light is still coming off this thing. My belief is raising the screen gain means raising your black levels too (so worse On/Off CR??... darin??) In any case FTB is awesome, with no sign of the blend. Thanks Cliff for showing me this can be done.

Gino

Try this. Go to Image Main, confirm that the Aspect Ratio window says Zoom then click on the Zoom tab above the window, a slider on the right enables further scaling of V Size and should give you full 1024 lines. Reduce the projector V Size and fill the available raster, then correct the projector size if needed.


http://i10.tinypic.com/42wk6d3.jpg


http://i17.tinypic.com/3yh7vdg.jpg



I was able to take 2.35 to the full raster height as seen here, using all the scan lines of 1024p instead of 3/4th of the scan lines. With greater projector H Size and wider spacing like you now have, it should even out, I did not elect to move my entire room to prove the point :-)


http://i12.tinypic.com/317e9vq.jpg



http://i17.tinypic.com/43oqycl.jpg

Tim, I think you misinterpreted me. By saying I had to zoom in the 800 lines, I'm referring to the actual source material. 2.40 aspect from 1920x1080 source, only gives you 1920x800... or the 800 horizontal lines. The DVX then upscales this for me to 1200 lines, more than 1024! So I'm not seeing scanlines, but I'm seeing more of a scaled image versus 16:9 material... do you understand?

Im crying,

I should never have sold the HFQ's................

I should have built a bigger house and increased the screen size.

Im glad you got the screen in, that looks just amazing..........

Nice job Gino.

Some more screen shots please

Looks really nice Gino!

My Blendzilla is bigger than your Blendzilla :D seriously though, looks like Gino has taken it as far as possible with only 2 9-inch projectors. So who's going to top this one, 3 x 9500's in a curved virtual reality set-up that wraps around the room like a flight simulator. :eek:

Tim, I think you misinterpreted me. By saying I had to zoom in the 800 lines, I'm referring to the actual source material. 2.40 aspect from 1920x1080 source, only gives you 1920x800... or the 800 horizontal lines. The DVX then upscales this for me to 1200 lines, more than 1024! So I'm not seeing scanlines, but I'm seeing more of a scaled image versus 16:9 material... do you understand?

Gino

If you are happy then so am I, Zoom x Zoom is a capability that is not really obvious........ :-)

Im crying,

I should never have sold the HFQ's................

I should have built a bigger house and increased the screen size.

Im glad you got the screen in, that looks just amazing..........

Nice job Gino.

Some more screen shots please

I told you so Andy! I said, build a bigger room! :D But seriously mate, thanks very much for the HFQ's. There is no denying they are super sharp. Thinnest lines I've ever seen (mind you I really dialed in the magnets/astig better than ever), but the focus is so sharp now, from left to right, and this really helps at screen centre!

Looks really nice Gino!

What's this Nin? Sarcasm... or you can appreciate what can be achieved without a digital?

Gino, I do not understand how 16/9 can be punchier than 2.40:1. I understand that with 16/9 you are effectively projecting into a smaller screen, but the tube face used is also smaller, right?

Yes Andres, raster width is less, as it is CIH setup, raster height is same. BUT, with 16:9 material, my source is 1080 horizontal lines. With 2.40 material, my source is only 800 horizontal lines (the other 280 is just black bars which are cropped). 800 is less than 1080 obviously, so less info... less punchy.

OK - so you mean crispier, right? I thought punch = constrast and dynamics, now I think you mean more resolution/definition.

Anyway... more pics??? :D :D

Curt,

Quote -

It started with the select few of us that actually had a CRT projector. People oohed and aahed over composite video on a 6' wide screen with 450 lumens...

I'm sure if I had to live out my days with a video grade, 7", ES focus, air coupled, CRT FP with analog convergence board and a laserdisc player with a bunch of LD's.. I could still be thankful for it and happy about it, kind of funny like you say.

Gino,

Nice. Thanks for sharing and good job with making it shine.

-Brian

Here are more pics of the ht. Not my house so I've done my best with it (only renting atm). Some pics have a HDDVD case for scale. All Audio gear completely custom made for me. More details another time. But is all audiophile grade, a perfect match for the twins. A ear-busting 116db without breaking a sweat! (Too afraid to go louder) :eek:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_ht_549.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_ht2_103.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_left_443.jpg
2 15" subbies... 240lbs each! Subsonic performance, below 10Hz... but our measuring equipment can't go lower! :eek:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_centre_194.jpg
All speaker components identical
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_right_137.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_surrounds_677.jpg
4x Surround Di-Poles
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_redgum_324.jpg
Redgum Gear (7x280-300W RMS at 8ohm)
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/gino_shanling_991.jpg
Shanling CDT300 Valve CD player (Limited Edition)

White walls, Granite Floors! Gino!! Godd for Vision & Sound eh!

Looking good.
But what's with the bright walls? Can't you hang up some curtains or something?

I'm waiting for someone to come up with a way of blending three projectors. I've got three 808LC's I'd like to try that with. =)

THe thing I like best is that there's no projector right in front of the sweet spot, dead center of the couch!

Awesome Gino. If you want, email the pix right to Kal, I'll see if he can rearrange the opening page to put a couple of the pix up. If you can get a good shot of you standing in the projected image, that would be great. You've posted one, but you're kinda in the shadows...

Conceptually you could set up projectors vertically so that the raster is 3/4, use the VLC plugin that allows for more than two projectors (and customize it slightly to rotate the images as well), use ~20% blend zone; and have a nice 16/9 setup.

Easier said than done....

White walls, Granite Floors! Gino!! Godd for Vision & Sound eh!

You're a hard man to please Ken.

There's a tonne of acoustic tiles and curtains around the room, and 16ft cathedral ceilings, 24ft x 28ft room, fronts angled up towards listening positioning, rears a good 5ft off the ground. Suprisingly the room isn't live at all with the tiled floors! As for the white walls, still thinking about how I can hide them, as I said earlier, I'm only renting atm.

THe thing I like best is that there's no projector right in front of the sweet spot, dead center of the couch!

Awesome Gino. If you want, email the pix right to Kal, I'll see if he can rearrange the opening page to put a couple of the pix up. If you can get a good shot of you standing in the projected image, that would be great. You've posted one, but you're kinda in the shadows...

Yes, I like that too, it also means centre channel is pointed directly at you. But the projectors arent in direct line of sight anywhere you sit, I built the platform high enough that you get 6" clearance on top of them.

Hi Gino,

My suggestions would be as follows.

1. Invert the bass speakers, port to the floor.
2. Acoustic matt directly infront of the bass speakers.
3. Place the front left and right on TOP of the bass - they are too low even if angled - they should be about 2/3 of the way up the screen.
(That will also give you a better point source)
4. Always difficult but center ch should be up top facing down - difficult one.
5. felt around the ribbon and tweeters on the Front L,C,R.
(the low mid drivers look like audax drivers - I cant tell the rest.....)

Im guessing you are running sub Left and Sub right, not one LFE channel.

IF you are running one LFE (.1) then when you move in subs want to be together, maybe on their sides under the center speaker.

If you are running LFE then try seperate Left and right - if you can........


These are just my opinions, and I would like to hear your views if you changed anything.....

Every audio engineer will have a different opinion.

See if anyone out there agrees with me.

(I have not given my reasons for any of this).

Andy.

Are the cabs ribbon, 2inch, 6.5 inch, then 15" sub drivers

Im trying to guess here...............

(I have not given my reasons for any of this).


Andy, yes I have dual LFE channels for L+R. Part of the custom Redgum job. Not really a big deal for me in movies, but they really shine in music.

If you give me reasons for your suggestions, I'd consider them. But as for centre and main speaker positioning, you'd think they should be higher etc.. but really, the speaker designer knew my layout and was able to create the soundstage so it feels like it is coming from the screen. I kid you not, you come here with your eyes closed and you won't be able to localise where the speakers are.

Gino

Sounds like it's all sorted out Gino.
For MadMrH...............
Subbie drivers are custom made, as are the 6.5" woofers.
2" dome mids and Ribbon tweeter are by Visaton (Germany)
Crossover components are by Mundorf (Germany)
Cabinets are 25mm MDF lined with barium impregnated vinyl.
Subbies are quarter wavelength transmission line with very little damping.

Thanks for answering Andrew! You're the expert... I know very little about that side of things, except that after visiting numerous places and auditioning other high end gear, your speakers were the best by far! Easily competes with other high end gear at a fraction of the cost (not that this was cheap :p). Perfect complement to the Twins. Seriously, I was only into video, but the gear has me listening to music much much more, in fact much more than my movies now! :D

Gino:
More pics and details.You really put the bar quite high.I have 3 Marquee 9500's that need blendzilla to compete with.
IMHO opinion your room cries out for brown or black felt on all possible surfaces,you havent seen FTb and contrast thats possible ,yet.Put felt on sliding tracks and take it with you when you move.I have dedicated Ht room so I have it and dont care what it looks like.
Placement of your 3 identical speakers is fine.
4 subs in HK white paper(Toole)is mandatory confiq since your are plainly fussy about audio.
Ron.

Gino, tell us about the Redgum audio stuff.

My mate makes the actual cabinets for Redgum, Acoustic Concepts in Mentone, Melbourne. Do you know where yours where made?

If he did them, then it's a small world (ok, country).

You're a hard man to please Ken.

There's a tonne of acoustic tiles and curtains around the room, and 16ft cathedral ceilings, 24ft x 28ft room, fronts angled up towards listening positioning, rears a good 5ft off the ground. Suprisingly the room isn't live at all with the tiled floors! As for the white walls, still thinking about how I can hide them, as I said earlier, I'm only renting atm.

Ah, if you ask me I'd love to have that floor. + the chicks I'm sure go crazy for the look as well. So as with all things in life, we gotta compromise ;)

Gino:
More pics and details.You really put the bar quite high.I have 3 Marquee 9500's that need blendzilla to compete with.
IMHO opinion your room cries out for brown or black felt on all possible surfaces,you havent seen FTb and contrast thats possible ,yet.Put felt on sliding tracks and take it with you when you move.I have dedicated Ht room so I have it and dont care what it looks like.
Placement of your 3 identical speakers is fine.
4 subs in HK white paper(Toole)is mandatory confiq since your are plainly fussy about audio.
Ron.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen FTB.. its when I can't see in front of my face. Don't need black walls for that, if there's no light, there's no light. But, it will help increase contrast etc on other scenes I'm sure.

I think placement of my speakers works a treat. 4 subs?!? I'd love to mate, but these 2 beasts already shake the house down. Won't be anything left of the house if I went 4. Actually 1 would have been enough, but I wanted stereo bass and big. In any case, all speakers are full range loud speakers.

Gino, tell us about the Redgum audio stuff.

My mate makes the actual cabinets for Redgum, Acoustic Concepts in Mentone, Melbourne. Do you know where yours where made?

If he did them, then it's a small world (ok, country).

What did you want to know about the Redgum gear? It was all completely designed by Ian, see here (http://redgumaudio.com/store/oz/168.html) with Andrew (The guy who made my speakers). Basically wanted a 7.2 system preamp, with 300W RMS each channel at 8ohms. For use in ht and music. The subs have Redgum plate amps 500W RMS with larger power supplies and heatsink plates to handle 1500W peaks.

I believe he is based in Box Hill VIC. But what cabinets are you talking about?

Placement of your 3 identical speakers is fine.
4 subs in HK white paper(Toole)is mandatory confiq since your are plainly fussy about audio.
Ron.

Identical - nope , I was suprised to see the L&R are different to the center - positioning of the ports.

Position is fine - seriously you can tell they are perfect position from the picture ???

My suggestions were based on both my personal preferance, and experience - other audio engineers may not agree with me, thats fine.

Could you post a picture of the sides/rears with respect to your seating position please,

ALSO a picture further back to show seating position with respect to screen/audio system.


Oh! 4 subs - Is that really needed ???? :D :eek: :D .

Oh! I just counted mine :D YEP 4 subs it is :D :D :D . So at least we agree there........

I think placement of my speakers works a treat. 4 subs?!? I'd love to mate, but these 2 beasts already shake the house down. Won't be anything left of the house if I went 4. Actually 1 would have been enough, but I wanted stereo bass and big. In any case, all speakers are full range loud speakers.

1 would have been enough, However you were right to go for 2.

Being enough to fill the room is one thing.

Removing the obvious position within the room of the sub does in my opinion require 2 or more subs.


Films take advantage of stereo bass, more than music.

I run the same left&right bass idea with the LFE channel run via left and right.

(Lexicon MC12B processor)



Could you speaker guy post the specs on these speakers please - freq response, x over points, is a response graph available - I will understand if not as custom built maybe not be viable to produce this.

Also what is the delay required between the bass and full range cabs set by the manufacturer ??? This will assume identical amps were used - or maybe they suggested this knowing the system being used.........



IN FACT - Gino - try this and then please tell me what you think - this will only take a minute to set up..........

Invert the bass cabinet - I mean rotate 180 deg so the driver is at the top (NOT invert the signal)

Lift the main left right on top of the subs - please center and at same angle as the subs - dont angle up or down. CHECK that they wont move on the subs - the cabinet of the sub should be solid and wont move so you should be OK (Designer will confirm this)

Change your delay settings to suit the new setup, your speaker designer might be able to tell you the natural delay between each cabinet and so you can align the cabs to suit, At a GUESS the top cab will need to be about 6-8 inches back from the front of the sub cabinet.

NOW tell me what you think............

DONT CHEAT - read the next bit AFTER you have done this...........

GINO - DONT CHEAT, read this afterwards or I will have influenced your decision (maybe) already and that would be unfair on us both................REST OF YOU, PLEASE dont comment until Gino has done the above if he chooses to, again I would like this to be a reported result from GINO first...............I would expect you to notice a larger sound stage and clearer vocals - NOT night and day, these things never are, BUT you will have removed the reflections from the side of the bass cabinets, and allowed the left and right to create their own sound for much further without immediate reflections, same with the bass. Also you now have the speakers set up in more of a point source and so I would hope better integration between cabinets. Currently you look up to the screen and down to the speakers - you brain will be working overtime with that concept.

I dont promise this will be a "better" system, Im not saying the designer does not know what he is doing, Im not knocking the system in any way - These are just my thoughts and I am never afriad to mention them.............

If you can do this then I would like to hear an honest opinion, If you think the sound sucks then you have done something wrong, if you cant tell a differance then visually I think better others might not agree, if you think better then thats a good thing and im glad I mentioned it. If slightly worse then im sorry for the time you spent but at least you know not to do that.

Others here will post opinions but you will never know until you try these things - I know you are not afraid to try new stuff, My hat off to you for all you have done so far (you know that)

EDIT - test the above with male and female vocal music, films are much more difficult to test with........

All the best,

Andy.

For MadMrH...............
Subbie drivers are custom made, as are the 6.5" woofers.
2" dome mids and Ribbon tweeter are by Visaton (Germany)
Crossover components are by Mundorf (Germany)
Cabinets are 25mm MDF lined with barium impregnated vinyl.
Subbies are quarter wavelength transmission line with very little damping.

Sounds like I guessed the correct sizes, thats a start :D .

Pictures are often difficult to tell from, especially when I cant take my eyes off the big screen.

The Custom made drivers - whose chassis do they use ???

Any chance of pictures of the basket/chassis of the sub and 6.5 inch mid ???

I wont ask the brand of voicecoil, cone, surround etc as I understand that would no longer be a "custom" built driver, nor will I guess as that is unfair on sellers.

What did you want to know about the Redgum gear? It was all completely designed by Ian, see here (http://redgumaudio.com/store/oz/168.html) with Andrew (The guy who made my speakers). Basically wanted a 7.2 system preamp, with 300W RMS each channel at 8ohms. For use in ht and music. The subs have Redgum plate amps 500W RMS with larger power supplies and heatsink plates to handle 1500W peaks.

I believe he is based in Box Hill VIC. But what cabinets are you talking about?


Ahh, I misunderstood, I thought Redgum made the speakers to. Nup, that was Aslan.

Yeah, tell us about the speakers - what type of crossovers? Yeah, more driver details.

(I have a fully active Focal driver based 6.2 system with four 15" Tempests mounted in two IB manifolds...pity I never get to turn it up any more with the kids asleep...my priorities have been changed on me.)

OK, here is a pic. of the 15" and 6.5" drivers showing chassis and magnet assembly. Sorry, but thats all your getting on that front!



The crossovers are exclusively Mundorf and are 12dB per octave Constant Power allignments with a frequency response of 80Hz-30KHZ +/- 2dB.
(55Hz-35KHz +/-4dB)
The same components as used by B&W, Sonus Faber, et. al.

Nice solid bass driver chassis, cant really see the 6.5 - focus issue !!!

Thanks for the picture, I knew the rest would not be available...............


Gino - you gonna give my ideas a go ???

ajw056 - What do you think ? now you have seen the room they are in ???

IN FACT - Gino - try this and then please tell me what you think - this will only take a minute to set up..........

Invert the bass cabinet - I mean rotate 180 deg so the driver is at the top (NOT invert the signal)

All audio related questions should be directed to Andrew/ajw056. I don't begin to pretend I know what I'm talking about here. I just know it's the best I've heard by a mile.

Andy - ummm... you're kidding me, a minute?? I don't know if you read right, but each sub weighs 240lbs, and measures 23.5" wide x 31.5" tall x 35.5" deep! How on earth am I going to flip this things upside down? This will have to wait until after New Years, as I'm going away soon, then I'll round up a couple of extra hands. But, Andrew did say these boxes are transmission line and your idea to make the bass tighter by lifting the driver off the ground works best with bass reflex boxes but I'll give it a go anyway. I can certainly life the mains on top of the subbies though.

I've been wondering, if I add a second centre channel and place this one on top, so there is one on top and one on the bottom of the screen, will this help? Or is it better to just move the centre to the top? Each of these speakers cost me $5K so there has to be a benefit.

Gino, I wouldn't invert the subbies.............there's some loose dacron fill in the tunnel which will fall out if you invert them, leaving them under damped.

I dont see any reason why you cant try the mains on top of them, although I dont see a benefit as all three fronts are angled directly to your ears now and the correct distance apart.

Maybe when you build the Uber Room we'll have more of a tinker with the setup.

Glad to hear Jess and yourself are getting into the music side of things.

Gino a center top AND bottom will not work.....different delay times, reduction of clarity, blah blah blah.........


I also think Andrew is thinking more towards music than film when he says "I dont see a benefit as all three fronts are angled directly to your ears"

My point would be the sound is angled UP and the screen angled DOWN.

Each on its own is fine, together a conflict.


Think of it this way - ideal locations are behind the screen, hence perf screens, second best location mid range drivers in line with mouths, bottom of the screen is FEET top of screen Mouth.............

Does my logic seem good here ????

Dont invert the subs, try the rest, see what you think............A minute - I meant the full range cabs..........

Think of it this way - ideal locations are behind the screen, hence perf screens, second best location mid range drivers in line with mouths, bottom of the screen is FEET top of screen Mouth.............

Does my logic seem good here ????I agree... don't try top AND bottom centers. Since I didn't choose an acoustically-transparent screen, I prefer top-mounted for several reasons... it keeps the center speaker away from grubby little pokey fingers. And it also provides a less-obstructed line-of-sound to the 2nd and 3rd rows.

I don't know if you ever have visiting kids running around your HT (with equipment that nice, I hope not) and I don't know if you have multiple rows of seating.

What's this Nin? Sarcasm... or you can appreciate what can be achieved without a digital?


Of course it's not sarcasm. It looks really nice, would be great to see irl

Gino!!! MORE SCREENSHOTS PLEASE!!

Cliff

Yes we need more screen shots..................

Ive got this urge to get off my lazy a$$ and blend it for good ole England :D .

Im going for the smallest blend :p Size is not everything you know :( .

Wow, as if the blended projectors were not enough, now I have SUB ENVY! :eek: Those things are monsters! Nice stuff!

Andy - makes complete sense to me. I tried it and yes, my brain seems more relaxed, feels like the sound is working together with the picture. No difference with music, but film for sure. I'm also going to try top mounting the centre. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to build a proper stand for them, as I don't like them 'balancing' on those big subbies, the vibration on low LFE's rock the house, so they don't seem very safe on top, plus, don't you want to eliminate sound vibrating through the cab?

I don't know if you ever have visiting kids running around your HT (with equipment that nice, I hope not) and I don't know if you have multiple rows of seating.

No kids as yet, and nope, no multiple rows either... I've created like a U shaped seating arrangement, works great for when you want to watch a big sports game or something like that.

Gino!!! MORE SCREENSHOTS PLEASE!!


Cliff, on their way. I spent more time the last 2 nights on maximising the rasters even more, the blend SE curve, and trying to get my focus even tighter, the HFQ's are an incredible lens. I think though Cliff that you can only use bezier or polyline curves, but not together. You can convert a bezier to a polyline though to make refinements on it.

So blending in 2.40 is awesome... max raster usage where you would normally have a lot of unused phosphor (black bars), and the whole room lights up in front of you. Had to turn the contrast down some parts were blinding. I tried to do a quick screenshot last night using Clarence's tips, but they all just looked so overexposed, too much light!

I want to work on Colorimetry tomorrow night, and will post pics then. I've also gotten a bunch more HDDVDs so it should be good.

Last night, I showed the girlfriend what I've achieved. It was the first time she was truly truly impressed. I looked over and her mouth was wide open, and she said, wow, that's really 3d, feels like I'm there. This meaning a lot because she doesnt really care for home theatre. Almost brought a tear to my eye... there's still hope yet!

I also really felt like I'd exceeded the movie experience. When watching on a screen of this size, you can only choose different parts of the screen to watch, something that I only felt at the movies, until now! It's really become an ALL-IN-YOUR-FACE-SENSORY-OVERLOAD :D Next up is the D-box Odyssey motion simulator due at my door in January. Should add an extra dimension again.

I've created like a U shaped seating arrangement, works great for when you want to watch a big sports game or something like that.Another advantage of CRT(s) on a low gain screen... no worries about the viewing cone dropping off for the side seats.

But one thing I noticed at Art's that I never noticed at home... when sitting close (1X) in front of a large, wide screen, I found it uncomfortable to be sitting off-center.

Art was sitting in his usual captain's chair... front and center (3 rows of 5 chairs each). So I sat in the co-pilot's seat. I'm used to sitting in the center seat at home, so it felt weird watching at a slight angle. Just like a commercial theater, Art has the advantage of having enough seats and rows so people can generally choose if they prefer to sit close/mid/back. I had no problem sitting off-center in his 2nd row.

I also noticed something similar at Cliff's... a tennis match syndrome of having to bounce my eyes left and right to follow the dialog between 2 people on the screen... or even having to turn my head. His screen was a couple of feet wider than mine and his seats were a couple of feet closer... that combination made it a bit more "immersive" than I've become accustomed to.

So just make sure that you personally watch a movie or sporting event from each seating position before you invite guests over.

Wow, as if the blended projectors were not enough, now I have SUB ENVY! :eek: Those things are monsters! Nice stuff!

Yes, even bigger/heavier than the twins! When these things rumble, it really is an experience to feel like the house is going to fall in on itself. Actually quite frightening when you get to 35Hz to 10Hz and below (do movies even get encoded below 10Hz??) Haven't had a single visitor yet who hasn't said F**K! Ladies included!

Movies are recorded down to 10Hz and below....................

Someone here will be able to tell you where but there are some "Waterfall" shots of audio spectrum on this forum.

Thats a thread well worth reading..............

I remember the Horn from the war of the worlds went to 9Hz I think, that actually shook my place..............

The bass cabinets should not move - thats the outer case should be solid. run a sub test and see...........

But yes minimum transfer of vibration is best.

Getting you to put the speaker up higher was my first aim........................

Next its important to align them with the sub. the designer will be able to tell you the exact position for alignement. I would expect them to be back away from the front of the sub - that will help your worry of them falling over.

I would also say that in my own experience sitting too close to the screen looses the 3d image. I think your seats look a good distance back, I usually sit in my 2nd or 3rd row of seats.

I know it might be difficult but if that center was at the top I do think that would give a much better perception of the movie.

This has to be a movie first, Music second system. BUT there is no reason why is cant be excellent for music as well..........I would NOT use the center for music if it is up high.

Best position for the center is behind the screen, I will never get that here, in fact to get the center above is currently not possible for me either...................

This system is amazing, I cant wait to run a full blend here..........

Andy.

Audio on a standard CD is not usually recorded below 30Hz.

SACD does have a noticable larger bandwidth, though I understand there will be no more support for this format (Well done Sony!!!)

Super tweeters next ?!??!??!?

When do you move into your place ??? or are you still looking ???

Thats a tall order for real estate.

I can just see them asking now.....what do you require in a house sir..............


"Oh I just need a few basic thing, couple of bedrooms, double garage, Kitchen you know, the usual stuff.................OH! and I will need just one room to house my home cinema"

"Yes sir, we sell lots like that, how big a space do you need for the Home Cinema"

"Oh, you know, 1 maybe 1.5 FOOTBALL PITCHES !!!!"

Audio on a standard CD is not usually recorded below 30Hz.



That doesn't mean it is not technically possibly to record sub-30 Hz signals though.
If no filtering is applied then signals down to at least 16 Hz work just fine on CDs.

Here is a Bass test disc:

http://rapidshare.com/files/8505301/Bass.Test.Signals.rar

It's a CD-Image in .nrg format (Nero). Extract the file using winrar (www.rarlabs.com), then burn it with Nero, or mount it.

Tracklist:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2980/tracklistbw6.png


The sweeps in particular will help you detect room resonances, and help you eliminate them.

You might also be able to detect speaker chassis screws that need to be tightened again :)

Yes, the reduction in bandwidth is usually to save space and time in production, and not that it cant be done.

Clarence, tried to practice a screenshot. Still haven't had time to do colorimetry, can't be bothered this time of year, so will wait until I get back from vacation in 2007. I tried taking a quick pic of Kong with auto settings, ISO 100, tripod, timer, but it seems to be overexposed... how can I fix this? What settings... f/stop, ISO, shutter speed, exposure combinations should I try?

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong_766.jpg

Clarence, tried to practice a screenshot. Still haven't had time to do colorimetry, can't be bothered this time of year, so will wait until I get back from vacation in 2007. I tried taking a quick pic of Kong with auto settings, ISO 100, tripod, timer, but it seems to be overexposed... how can I fix this? What settings... f/stop, ISO, shutter speed, exposure combinations should I try?Which camera are you using?

What happened to the bottom 10% of the image (by the pause timebar?)
Are you running 1200P?

I'd have to check that actual scene... but it doesn't look unexposed as much as washed out. I don't notice the clouds clipping... overexposure usually turns the pale pink and blue clouds to white. Looks like you're getting a lot of reflection from the room back to the screen, so your blacks are getting hazed. It also looks like you're losing/crushing a lot of shadow detail in Kong's face.

Let me know the model camera and I'll look at the manual to pick some manual settings for you.

I'm using a Canon EOS 5D. Bottom 10% is cut off because I'm in 2.35 mode. The time bar falls out of that aspect ratio. Yes, I'm at 1200P

Ok, so I've played around with aperture, shutter speeds, exposure settings a little bit. Getting closer now, but now looks underexposed! Also difficult getting a clear frame to take a pic of. More to come later, going to bed now.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong1_170.jpg

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong2_144.jpg

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong3_143.jpg

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong4_794.jpg

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/kong5_114.jpg

Hey Gino, far be it for me to give advice, I take the WORST screen shots..;) but I've found that an image with less activity in it captures better than one with a bunch of stuff in it.

For example, the above 5 pictures have a bunch of stuff in it. THe dinosaur in the second to last picture looks better than Kong in the last picture because the dinosaur is a lot larger in the image. So I'll bet a full screen shot of just Kong or the dinosaur will look a lot more impressive than one that's only taking up a small portion of the screen.

Great shots Gino. Can you take any from a video-game? Most PC games allow for a lot of customization and you can render them in 2.35:1

Hey Gino, far be it for me to give advice, I take the WORST screen shots..;) but I've found that an image with less activity in it captures better than one with a bunch of stuff in it.


I'll try taking more shots with less activity then Curt. I guess it's because the picture is so darned big (13ft wide!) that everything else in it looks big and clear. ;)

Great shots Gino. Can you take any from a video-game? Most PC games allow for a lot of customization and you can render them in 2.35:1

Andres, dont have the PC hooked up yet. I can take some shots of the Xbox360, but that is only 16:9

Gino, when you get calibrated, it will be looking sweet. You really should consider having Ken out to your place to dial you in. You wont regret it........

Cliff

I think it looks pretty sweet now actually ;) BUT, I'm certain Ken could take it to all new heights! At the least, I'd like to get the room more light controlled before then, and also I'm considering new LUG's and filtered C-elements.

Gino, when you get calibrated, it will be looking sweet. You really should consider having Ken out to your place to dial you in. You wont regret it........

Cliff

Eh?

Should he fly him first class or economy?

I'm not that rich!

How about I fly you up here Mark?

Dang! The detail in those images are amazing!

Every little crack and crevice is clearly resolved..

I know these are not the most popular images that folk like to see, but it's the kind of stuff that makes me drool.

WOW!

It takes awhile, but the more you play around with the camera, the bettr you'll get. And those images are proof of that.

Kudos!

Thanks Mike. I know that its not your usual wow, look at that picture. But when I view those scenes on my screen, I say wow, look at all that detail, even in the background. Obviously hard to convey in screenshots.

But thanks to your mods Mike, its really added more to my viewing experience... kudos to you mate! Glad you can appreciate them.

I think it looks pretty sweet now actually ;) BUT, I'm certain Ken could take it to all new heights! At the least, I'd like to get the room more light controlled before then, and also I'm considering new LUG's and filtered C-elements.

Oh, don't get me wrong Gino.... It does look damn sweet.

Don't you have new tubes in those marquee's now? If so, I really don't think you will benefit by putting LUGS in them. Maybe Terry or someone else could chime in on this.

The 2 red C elements though, I would jump on. I saw some on Ebay going for 170 bucks. I can get you the link if you want.

I know it would be kind of expensive to get Ken over, but damn dude, you would be REALLY suprised....... :)

Cliff

Eh?

Should he fly him first class or economy?

Eh? Are you from Minnesota? :D ;)

I know it would cost a bit, but with that setup, I would demand nothing less....... :)

Cliff

I agree, a color calibration would take your setup over the top. As well, I think Ken would be the best for your setup.

I'm sure there are many others who can do a wonderful job, but Ken has the perfect calibration tool for this (spectro-what-ever-the-@#*!). And these devices are PERFECT for blending and other multi-display setups.

Ken has the perfect calibration tool for this (spectro-what-ever-the-@#*!). And these devices are PERFECT for blending and other multi-display setups.

LOL. He said spectro-what-ever-the-@#*!. :eek: :p :eek: :p

The Cliffster

Oh well, off on Christmas vacation, won't be back 'til after new years... so watch this space then. Happy holidays guys :)

I'm back!

I've been spending time dialing the Ultra's in as well as I could, thanks to the great tips etc on this site, and thanks to Mike Parker for the additional mods and Andy for the HFQ900 lenses.

Have really tried my best on magnetics, geometry, focus, convergence and grey scale. I could probably get another 5% out on each but am going to enjoy what I have at the moment.

Equilibrium (jap) HD-DVD screenshots on 13' wide 2.40 CIH 1.0 gain... I hope you enjoy :)

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_001_154.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_002_145.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_003_651.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_004_102.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_005_254.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_006_812.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_007_172.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_008_591.jpg
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/files/equilibrium_screenshots_009_156.jpg

Awesome!!!!!!!

Cliff

Cheers Cliff. You set the bar quite high with your G90 blend.

I'm going to try and get some pics with me in it to give them some scale.

Gino,

Very impressive indeed. A new bar has been set.

Terry

That means a lot Terry. After seeing Cliff's blend, I was really motivated to bring mine up to par, especially that I own the darned thing. It was a lot of effort, lots of research and trial and error... it took me half a dozen odd times from scratch to get to this level. Mainly as I've never seen a CRT before except for my own.

The last time I tried, I thought it was pretty good, but Andres told me that it still didn't look all that sharp or punchy. So I kept on trying to get that little bit more out of them. Now I know I've done a good job... my girlfriend hasn't really been all that impressed with the amount of money and time I've spent, but now... she has been the one asking me to watch a movie! Priceless!

Gino - the shoots look amazing. I now have a new goal and reference :-) Could you do a "Clarence shoot" to get perspective on scale? I will be trying 5 meters wide on my blend. My HT room is a bat cave, and everything is black, so I *think* I'll have enough light after all, but again who knows.

Glad you liked them Andres, was waiting til I finally got your approval mate :) Will do a Clarence shot soon. Will be interesting to see how you go on 5m wide. By my calculations, this means each projector will be doing 2.625m or 103" wide. You may need a little gain or perhaps try a quad rig.

My ideas on the audio :
I agree the port tward the floor for floor coupling but I think those boxes are way TOO BIG FOR 15" WOOFERS, but I dont know whats goign on inside those boxes......

I think the L and R channels are actually placed at a good height on the screen.
No one I know of here in the USA ever puts a center channel on top of the screen firing down a the listening area unless there is no othe rplace it can go, so again I liek where its placed.

The speakers look great and as a custom builder I can totally appreciate them. The finish looks killer! Im tring to get better at getting smooth glossy finishes like that.

The only thing that I thought was quesitonable was the actual size of the cabinet for the 15" woofer. It just seems way too big to me to be ported as big as it is but there could be more then mets the eye going on there. Almost looks like an 18 should be in that box.

How in the world did I miss this thread? Maybe because there are too many BlendZilla threads? ;)

Incredible screenshots. I love the one with the paper clips.

After seeing Tim's BlendZilla setup in person a little while ago, I know how drop dead gorgeous this can look. Talk about bright too, his screen is "only" 9 feet wide! :eek:

Your screen is almost 6 feet wider than mine, and all I can say is holy $hit! :D

Very, very nice.

Enjoy,
Brad

I agree the port tward the floor for floor coupling but I think those boxes are way TOO BIG FOR 15" WOOFERS, but I dont know whats goign on inside those boxes......

The only thing that I thought was quesitonable was the actual size of the cabinet for the 15" woofer. It just seems way too big to me to be ported as big as it is but there could be more then mets the eye going on there. Almost looks like an 18 should be in that box.

I'll try contacting the guy who designed the system to comment, and his reason for the size of the box.

Hi Vic C and Gino.................... the enclosures are this size because they are a hybrid Transmission line/Reflex allignment. The volume was needed to allow for the 1/4 wavelength line at the driver's SD.
Andrew

Bah, Infinite Baffle or nothing :) Renting Schmenting, just means you need to be more creative :)

SD? Effective area?

Do you mean Fs? Free air Resonance? Or Fc, tuning frequency?

That bar is sooo high, it looks like a toothpick from where I am standing, seriously awsome. I was just talking to a friend about blending, it's a shame we can't all enjoy it. Congrats on truly a one of a king setup!!!

Bah, Infinite Baffle or nothing :) Renting Schmenting, just means you need to be more creative :)


I'll have to experience infinite baffle for myself... but don't scoff at these subbies... you have no idea! ;)

Oh, I can imagine, I've heard and built many subs - 15 or so.

I currently have four 15" Tempests in an IB, I imagine it's broadly similar :) Except the IB's probably more subtle, it's a drier sound.

Not that I ever get to turn it up anymore...kids..

I'm just joshing with ya - those drivers are HUGE. Be careful, you might do structural damage to the house.

Hi Mark, by SD I do mean effective cone area.............the tunnel starts at 1.3 times SD and is a constant taper to 0.75 times SD....................so in the purest sense it's not a full TL as the theory states the final vent area should equal SD.
The vent opening size and length at the end of the taper follows the Thiele Small parameters for an equivalent box volume Bass Reflex, hence the term hybrid TL/Reflex.

In testing what happened is that the box completely unloads below the tuning frequency allowing for bass extension to 10Hz at 100db output..................in reality the damn thing seems to think its an IB.

If you have a spare tempest you should try it out.

The really interesting thing with the driver is that it actually has a free air resonance of 48Hz. The tunnel length calcs are based on this.

SD? Effective area?

Do you mean Fs? Free air Resonance? Or Fc, tuning frequency?

Um I have big speaker in really heavy box that rumble when movie is on.


I swear I feel like an idiot 90% of the time on this forum!

I swear I feel like an idiot 90% of the time on this forum!

Phew!!!

I'm not the only one then..... :o

I am planning my next subs, going to use these: http://www.tcsounds.com/lms5400.htm in the 18", I have 2 of them on order.

I was going to go with 2 PR's again in a box like my Stryke HE-15 that I am currently using, but, this looks really interesting to try. I will have to look into this more.

ajw056 can I pm you for more info on this design?

John

No problems John, or just check out the website page..............not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, but I guess the mods will step in if they have any objections:

www.aslanacoustics.com.au

Go to subwoofers and Atlantis.
Andrew

Hi Mark, by SD I do mean effective cone area.............the tunnel starts at 1.3 times SD and is a constant taper to 0.75 times SD....................so in the purest sense it's not a full TL as the theory states the final vent area should equal SD.
The vent opening size and length at the end of the taper follows the Thiele Small parameters for an equivalent box volume Bass Reflex, hence the term hybrid TL/Reflex.

In testing what happened is that the box completely unloads below the tuning frequency allowing for bass extension to 10Hz at 100db output..................in reality the damn thing seems to think its an IB.

If you have a spare tempest you should try it out.

The really interesting thing with the driver is that it actually has a free air resonance of 48Hz. The tunnel length calcs are based on this.

Ahh - now I get it, sorry. I have designed a TL once - I did the Loudspeaker Kit TL6, but due to size constraints it was never quite what I wanted (needed to be 1.5x as big). From memory it's a 1/4 wave tapered TL as well.

They sound interesting, next time I'm in Cairns I'll have two reasons to drop in...3 if I need some dental work done :)

I'm just joshing with ya - those drivers are HUGE. Be careful, you might do structural damage to the house.

Hehe, yeh well ... let's just say it's not my house ;)

In testing what happened is that the box completely unloads below the tuning frequency allowing for bass extension to 10Hz at 100db output..................in reality the damn thing seems to think its an IB


Good one Andrew :D :cool:

Gino- Awesome screen shots - I'm jelous, but not for too long! If all goes as planned, I'll have a 'Zilla driving a pair of mint XG135LC's on an 11' wide 2.35 SMX screen.
I'm really interested in how wide your blending zone is as I'm figuring on about 10%.
Could you do a screen shot of the whole screen showing gray bars with the blending turned off so we could see how big (small) the zone really is?
Also, if I remember you have an HD-SDI output on your HD-DVD. Have you used it with 'Zilla, and if so, what is your opinion in comparison to analog component?

Many thanks,
Bob

Very interesting design. I was actually conciderign doign something like that in the future.

I have a 10" Sub I designed with a very deep port and I was thinkign of adding more lenght to the port in just such a way. I guess it is an exceptable design method.

Now I understand why the box is SO BIG, It in realaity isnt on the woofer.

I bet those 15" subs sound more like pro dual 18's

Vic

They sound frightening Vic.....................Gino tells me he hasn't had anyone in who hasn't yelled an expletive at the first cannon shots in Master and Commander...........male and female alike!

Just gorgeous Gino !!!!!!!! Great work on the blend and the screen shots! :)

Art

Yes Art... CRT still has some legs left in 'em :) Who would have thought... 13' wide 1.0 gain could look like that.

Have been watching keenly where you will be heading in the next 12-18 months.

Gino- Awesome screen shots - I'm jelous, but not for too long! If all goes as planned, I'll have a 'Zilla driving a pair of mint XG135LC's on an 11' wide 2.35 SMX screen.
I'm really interested in how wide your blending zone is as I'm figuring on about 10%.
Could you do a screen shot of the whole screen showing gray bars with the blending turned off so we could see how big (small) the zone really is?
Also, if I remember you have an HD-SDI output on your HD-DVD. Have you used it with 'Zilla, and if so, what is your opinion in comparison to analog component?

Many thanks,
Bob

Hi Bob, I'll be sure to get those photos done for you this weekend, have been planning to do more to show the blend etc.. but have been in Sydney at a dental conference last week.

You won't regret your purchase! Tim just sold another DVX to Russia IIRC.

Blendzone is 10%. I've tried HD-DVD over HD-SDI through the DVX.. looks very good, noticeable difference as compared to component. Haven't compared it to HDMI though. I haven't been able to continue using it though, as I'm currently using the VP50 for my CIH setup. I'm looking into the Radiance with HD-SDI so I can go back down that path.

Now I understand why the box is SO BIG, It in realaity isnt on the woofer.

I bet those 15" subs sound more like pro dual 18's

Vic

You've got that right! The pair of them challenge my D-box Odyssey Motion Simulators I just put in when it comes to vibrations :D

You've got that right! The pair of them challenge my D-box Odyssey Motion Simulators I just put in when it comes to vibrations :D


You're bloody mad mate.......................................................
Have fun.