I am currently researching whole house A/V distribution systems that have RS-232 control capability and decided that I would start to write down a list of the most popular models and give their features/specs. I haven't found this type of thing anywhere else or it wasn't up to date, so I started my own.

I am planning on integrating the distribution system into a home automation system and therefore I am only looking at products that have RS-232 capabilities.

Please feel free to suggest other products or make corrections if I have something wrong. I am certainly no expert and I am simply trying to make the research a little easier for everyone else.

Thanks.

Whole House Audio/Video Distribution Options

1) B&K CT-602 and CT-600 - Analog Audio, Composite Video and HD Video (with optional HD-6) Distribution
9 Sources (also has 6 dedicated zone inputs) - analog audio, composite video
6 zone outputs (6 stereo/12 mono)
55 watts/channel for all 6 zones
89db signal to noise ratio
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
Built in AM/FM tuner (CT-602 has 2 AM/FM tuners)
built in IR
Multiple units may be daisy channel together for larger systems
Paging and doorbell muting capability (paging uses one of the 9 inputs)
Robust keypads for local control
requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
http://www.bkcomp.com/products.asp

B&K HD-6 - HD video switcher
9 sources (also has 6 dedicated zone inputs)
6 zone output
Upscales composite and S-video to component video in all 6 zones
Multiple units may be daisy channel together for larger systems
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each wallplate

2) Russound E Series Sphere ACA-E5 - Analog Audio and Composite Video Distribution
12 Sources - analog audio and composite video
8 zone outputs (expandable to 38 zones) + 2 optional 4 zone A-Bus modules available
40 watts per channel for 6 zones - (zones 7 & 8 require external amplification) uses a digital amp
93db signal to noise ratio
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
Built in AM/FM tuner - counts as the 12th source if used (leaving 11 other sources)
Built in IR
Multiple units may be daisy channel together for larger systems
Paging and doorbell muting capability (does not use 1 of the 12 inputs)
Doorbell and remote latch control
Ethernet port - allows for programming and system diagnostics over the Internet
RNET capability - shows program information on the keypads
Optional wireless ipod dock
Robust keypads for local control (including click wheel), optional Russound Touchscreen also available
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
**Only available through professional integrators - no DIY access**
http://www.russound.com/

3) Russound C Series MCA-C5 - Analog Audio Distribution
6 Sources - analog audio
8 zone outputs (6 powered and 2 unpowered) expandable to 48 zones
40 watts per channel for 6 powered zones
93db signal to noise ratio
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
Built in AM/FM tuner (I believe it uses 1 of the 8 sources if used)
Built in IR
Multiple units may be daisy channel together for larger systems
Paging and doorbell muting capability (uses 1 of the 8 sources)
Has a system clock for alarm or sleep timer use
RNET capability - shows program information on the keypads
Optional wireless ipod dock
Robust keypads for local control, optional Russound Touchscreen also available
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
http://www.russound.com/

4) Russound CAV 6.6 - Analog Audio, Composite Video, and HD Video (with optional VM1) Distribution
6 Sources - analog audio and composite video (actually has a 7th Aux audio & video input on the front of the system. IR controllable)
6 zone outputs + 4 ABUS subzones
20 watts/channel for all 6 main zones
88db signal to noise ratio
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
No built in AM/FM tuner
built in IR
Multiple units may be daisy channel together for larger systems
Paging and doorbell muting capability (does NOT use one of the 6 inputs)
RNET capability - shows program information on the keypads
Optional wireless ipod dock
Robust keypads for local control, optional Russound Touchscreen also available
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
Can also be intergrated with Russound Compoint Intercom system
http://www.russound.com/

Russound VM1 - HD Video Switcher
Comes in 4x4 or 8x8 units
The 8x8 also comes in a unit that will upscale 2 composite or S-video inputs
I assume it will require 1 Cat5 to each wallplate

5) Elan System 12 - Analog Audio and SD/HD Video Distribution
12 analog audio Sources (also has 8 local zone sources)
OnBoard 16x16 Video switcher (allows 5x5 HD video switching)
8 zone outputs (expandable to 32 zones)
No amplifiers built in
No built in AM/FM tuner
Built in IR
Robust keypads for local control (keypads don't have LCD screens however), optional Elan Touchscreens available (one is even wireless)
http://www.elanhomesystems.com/

Elan V-883 HD Switcher
This unit can be used with or without an Elan Whole House Distribution System
It does interface with Elans VIA!NET which means seemly integration with Elan's keypads and touch screens
8 Source inputs - component video
8 Zone Outputs (expandable to 32) - component video
IR built in
Requires 3 RG-6 or 1 Cat5 (with wallplate) run to each location

6) Nuvo Concerto/Grand Concerto - Analog Audio Distribution
6 Sources - analog stereo, no video
8 Zone outputs - expandable to 16 zones
40 watts/channel on 6 zones, 2 unpowered zones
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
No built in AM/FM tuner
Built in IR
Optional iPod dock (Grand Concerto)
Muting on doorbell and telephone (no native paging that I could find -there may be a work around with additional hardware)
Local Source Interrupt - can use local source through speakers, but must be amplified source (NUVO is passive)
Robust keypads for local control, Grand Concerto will have capacitive touch control pads
The Nuvo system is suppose to be sold to installers only, not DIYers or public
http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/products.htm

7) Nuvo Essentia E6G and V.2 - Analog Audio Distribution
6 Sources - Analog Audio
6 Zone Outputs (expandable to 12 zones)
20 watts/channel - uses Digital Amps
Has fixed and variable line outputs to use with external amplification if needed.
Built in IR
No Paging Capacity
Single Gang Keypads - E6G has LCD screen, V.2 does not have LCD screen
Requires 1 Cat5 wire to keypads and normal speaker wire to speakers
http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/products.htm


8) Xantech MRC88 - Analog Audio and Composite Video Distribution
8 Sources - analog audio, composite video (also has 8 dedicated zone audio inputs)
8 Zone Outputs (expandable to 16 zones)
35 watts/channel for 6 zones, 2 unpowered zones
96 db signal to noise ratio
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
No built in AM/FM tuner
Built in IR
Muting on doorbell
Robust keypads for local control, xantech touch screen available
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
http://www.xantech.com/

9) Xantech ZPR68 - Analog Audio and Composite Video Distribution
8 Sources - analog audio, composite video
6 Zone Outputs (expandable with the EXP9 to 16 zones)
No amplifiers built in
No built in AM/FM tuner
Built in IR
Several Keypad options, but none have a small LCD screen, Xantech touch screen available
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
http://www.xantech.com/

10) Speakercraft MZC-88 - Analog Audio and Composite Video Distribution
8 Source - analog audio and composite video
8 Zone Outputs - expandable to 32 zones
50 watts per channel (all 8 zones powered)
20Hz - 20kHz audio frequency response
2 Built in AM/FM tuners
Audio and video paging (does not take up one of the inputs)
Doorbell muting
Built in IR
iPod integration
Robust keypadsl for local control, although none have LDC screens
Requires 1 Cat5 to each keypad and regular speaker wire to each speaker
http://www.speakercraft.com/#Products:149:MZC-88

11) HTD MCA-66 - Analog Audio Distribution
6 Source - analog audio only
6 Zone Outputs - doesn't seem to be expandable
20 watts per channel - used digital amps (also has preamp outputs to use external amps if desired)
Built in IR
No paging capacity
Basic Keypads - no LCD
Requires 1 Cat5 wire to keypads and normal speaker wire to speakers
http://www.htd.com/whole-house-audio/mid-level-whole-house-audio/MCA-66-Audio-Controller-Amplifier


12) Netstream Musica MU5066ADC - IP Based Audio and HD Video (with optional Panorama) Distribution System
4 Source - analog audio
6 Zone Outputs - can be expanded to 18 zones)
25 watts/channel
Each zone has its own amplifier integrated into the keypad
5 band graphic equalizer built into each keypad/zone
Selectable Sleep Timer with NetStreams proprietary Shhh! Technology
Expansion slot for New Digital FM Tuner card (sold separately) to add in-room FM Tuner listening (does not use one of the primary four sources)
Doorbell/Phone muting
Built in IR
Can also be controlled from any web browser
Requires Cat5 and power (14/4) to be run to each keypad. Speaker wire needs to be run from keypad to each speaker in that zone.
This is IP based and does not have RS232, although NetStream does have the DigiLinX line that does have RS232.
http://www.netstreams.com/resproducts.aspx?PId=30

Netstream Panorama Pam6400 HD Video Switcher (up to 1080i)
4 Sources - component HD Video
6 Zone Outputs - expandable to 36
Can be a stand aloneunit or seemlessly integrated with the Netstream Musica system
http://www.netstreams.com/resproducts.aspx?PId=42

13) A bunch of separate receivers with RS-232 - Analog and Digital Audio and Potentially HD Video Distribution (Depending on models choosen)
Each receiver has a max of 2 to 3 zones
Can receive and decode digital audio into 5.1/6.1/7.1 for surround sound experience
Harder to share sources among each receiver
Each receiver will have a built in AM/FM tuner
Will require home automation system to integrate receivers into usable package
No local keypads for control, can use IR as alternative


HD Switcher Options

1) Xantech HD88CC5 (or HD88C) High Definition Video Matrix Switcher
This unit will switch HD video and digital audio signals via coaxial or cat5e cables (with the HD88CC5 only)
8 Source - component video and coaxial digital audio
8 Zone (expandable to 32) - component cable (both models) and/or cat5e baluns (with the HD88CC5 model) (note - both coaxial component and CAT5 video outputs are active simultaneously on the HD88CC5, making it possible to distribute
eight sources to sixteen outputs at the same time)
Active A/V Loop Thru (for Expansion): Gold Plated RCA
Bandwidth supports resolutions of 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i
Coax Output Distance: 250ft (76m)
Gold Plated RCA CAT5/E Output Distance: 1,000ft (304m) - RJ45
Controllable through IR and RS232 commands
Optional Rack Mount kit available (RM3UKIT)
http://www.xantech.com/Video/HighDefinition/HDVideoAudioDistrib/HD88CC5/

*** Also available in a 4x4 matrix setup called the HD44CC5 ***


2) Elan V833 HD Switcher
This unit is a stand alone HD switcher. However since it does integrate with the Elan System 12, I've listed it in both locations
8 Source inputs - component video
8 Zone Outputs (expandable to 32) - component video
IR built it - Elan says it can be programmed to work with most keypads, regardless of manufacture, via IR programming
Requires 3 RG-6 or 1 Cat5 (with wallplate) run to each location
You could also use the Elan keypads since this is VIA!NET compatible
http://www.elanhomesystems.com/product/video_comm/v_c/v883.asp

3) Audio Authority Avatrix AVX-661 - HD (up to 1080p) Switcher
6 sources - DVI, Component, analog and digital audio (optical and coaxial)
7 outputs
Built in IR
Requires 2 Cat5 cables to each wallplate
No local keypads for control, can use IR as alternative
https://www.audioauthority.com/indexh.php

4) Neothings Borrego and Avalon - HD (up to 1080p) switcher
8 sources - component video, analog audio (Borrego only), coaxial digital audio (doubles as composite video), Optical Digital Audio (Avalon only)
2, 4, or 8 outputs
built in IR
Would require Cat5 and baluns or a run of 3 RG-6 wires to each location.
No local keypads for control, can use IR as alternative
http://www.neothings.com/consumer.html

5) Autopatch or Extron Matrix Switchers
Several models to choose from
Very customizable to each situation - determine number or sources and zones and find a unit that matches
Most do not have built in IR (I couldn't find any, but I don't want to say that "none" do)
Would require Cat5 and baluns or a run of 3 RG-6 wires to each location
No local keypads for control
http://www.autopatch.com/index.php?object=6&PHPSESSID=cf2ff205028a8d2716a08e642ff6b65f

6) Key Digital Fat Boy Series
HD video (up to 1080p) and Digital Audio (coaxial) Switcher
8 Inputs - composite video
4 Zone Outputs - expandable to 44
Built in IR
Would require Cat5 and baluns or a run of 3 RG-6 wires to each location
No local keypads for control
http://www.keydigital.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;PRODUCTS_NO_TREE?cat=VASWITCH?company=K EY

7) Netstream Panorama Pam6400 HD Video Switcher (up to 1080i) - IP Based HD Video Distribution System
4 Sources - component HD Video
6 Zone Outputs - expandable to 36
Can be a stand aloneunit or seemlessly integrated with the Netstream Musica system
http://www.netstreams.com/resproducts.aspx?PId=42


Other Non-RS-232 Controllable Whole House Distribution Systems
I thought I would add another section to include some non-RS232 controlled systems. Although this isn't the original intent of the thread, I've come across some and thought I would add it in.

1) HTD-MC2-86 - An Analog Only Distribution System
8 Sources - 6 out of the 8 may be connected in in each local zone if desired (ie 1 local device in each zone = up to 6 local devices)
6 Zone Outputs (expandable to 16 zones)
No Built in Amplifier (HTD has optional 12 channel amp available)
Has built in paging (via built in microphone)
Doorbell notification
Built in IR
Robust Keypads for local control
Requires 1 Cat5 cable to each keypad and speaker wires run to each speaker
http://www.htd.com/s.nl/it.A/id.159/.f?fromsla=T


EDIT - added Xantech systems and Avalon information (thanks IVB) and web site addresses
Added Extron system, Elan V833 and Key Digital Fatboy (thanks fletch999)
Added SpeakerCraft MZC-88
Added Netstream systems (thanks Jamie)
Added HTD MC-86 information
Added new Russound models, Nuvo Essentia Models and HTD MCA-66 (7-15-09)
Added Xantech HA88CC5 HD Video Switcher (7/20/09)

What control system are you going to use? ML, Crestron????

Details are on the charmedquark.com learn.supportedevices page, but there's also:

- Xantech ZPR68 [composite video, analog audio)
- Xantech MRC88
- Neothings Avalon
- Extron System 8, 10

I have the ZPR, but I use it only for analog whole-house audio distro. They seem really expensive now on eBay, so the MRC88 is probably a more cost effective bet than it if you go Xantech.

Thanks for the replys. I already own CQC, so that is the control system I will be using (however I didn't want to pull this thread off topic, so that is why I didn't mention it in the first post).

IVB - thanks for the other devices. I added the Xantech systems, but the Neothings Avalon is almost identical to the Borrego, but the Borrego simply adds analog audio, so I had left it off. I had not heard of the Extron systems, but the two you suggested are simply video switchers that have multiple inputs, but only 1 output each. That doesn't really fit my desire to compare whole house distribution systems. They are designed more for the dedicated home theater.

Let me know if there are others out there or if I have misrepresented the facts on any of the listed models.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the replys. I already own CQC, so that is the control system I will be using (however I didn't want to pull this thread off topic, so that is why I didn't mention it in the first post).

IVB - thanks for the other devices. I added the Xantech systems, but the Neothings Avalon is almost identical to the Borrego, but the Borrego simply adds analog audio, so I had left it off. I had not heard of the Extron systems, but the two you suggested are simply video switchers that have multiple inputs, but only 1 output each. That doesn't really fit my desire to compare whole house distribution systems. They are designed more for the dedicated home theater.

Let me know if there are others out there or if I have misrepresented the facts on any of the listed models.

Thanks again.

The only thing that would make this thread a little more complete, is rough cost estimates as I am going through the same process that you are currently going through. And am having a tough time trying to get estimates for each.

Yes, great info, for I am also compiling info on components, your list speeds up the process. But as Bauer mentions . . . the most important parameter (at least for me) is $$$$ :)

Extron makes high end matrixes in almost unlimited configs, just like Autopatch. Knox also. Key Digital makes good matrixes.

Elan also has the V883 standalone 8x8 component video matrix.

OK - I've added the suggested systems. I'm not sure where I should draw the line with video switchers. Obviously there is tons more, and most are very similar. I thought originally I would have the more common systems used, and I think that is still my thought. I'm not trying to list every HD switcher made, but I would like to list those that are commonly referred to on this site as well as some of the other home automation sites (Cocoontech, CQC, etc).

As far as prices, I deliberately left those out. The main reason is that if I list any price, it probably needs to be the full retain price. Any other price is likely to change too quickly to keep up with. Also, some of the systems mention are suppose to be installed by professionals only and are not available to the general public (Nuvo for example). So even finding some of those prices would be difficult and listing them is probably against corporate policy. Finally, I thought listing full retail price might give some people sticker shock, when we all know that most systems can be purchased for well less than retail price.

Those where/are my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to comment.

As always, please review the listing for any glaring omissions or errors

Extron is one of the largest matrix switch manufacturers out there. They are very comparable to Autopatch. Also, Autopatch was just bought by AMX. I'm not sure how that's going to affect things.

CJ

Sorry to be so self serving but you could also add in NetStreams. Our Musica audio systems and Panorama hi-def video systems have very comprehensive RS232 control.
You can also do RS232 control of DigiLinX, but that might be a bit silly since it is IP based.

the s12 will also switch component

You can also do RS232 control of DigiLinX, but that might be a bit silly since it is IP based.

Oh, good call - forgot about IP driven equipment since that's coming out now too. Curious - what's the performance difference between that and the RS232 equipment?

Sic0048: In your notes for the ZPR, you should put down that it's got a ludicrously slow RS232 protocol, so slow that I can't use regular up/down volume widgets against it and must use sliders. Nothing CQC can do about this - I think it's something stupid like 9600baud and very bad response time.

I've found that many of the systems listed use 9600 baud rate. Perhaps I should note the baud rates for each system. Obviously if I plan to integrate this into a HA system, then buad rates are important.

I also added details on the NetStream systems. Or should I say as many details as I could find. Jamie, your web site certainly leaves a lot to be desired. Clearly an example of BAD use of flash. Sorry to be so critical, but it took a lot longer to glean this information off the site than it should have. Links don't match the pictures you are clicking on etc. (for example - you click on either main system controller on the right hand column and it takes you to keypads instead of the main controller you are clicking on). You then have to struggle to find the controller at all.

In general it looks like the Net Stream idea is great. It's cutting edge technology, so you are paying a big price premium (one of the news articles listed retail prices on some of the DigiLinX hardware and it was upwards of $1000 a zone just for the zone/amp. That doesn't include power supplies, keypads, etc).

Sic0048: In your notes for the ZPR, you should put down that it's got a ludicrously slow RS232 protocol, so slow that I can't use regular up/down volume widgets against it and must use sliders. Nothing CQC can do about this - I think it's something stupid like 9600baud and very bad response time.

Interestingly, Jim Scheller, who wrote our MCR88 driver, says that that one is quite snappy in response times, a couple tens of ms for most responses. Is the ZPR older or newer than the MCR88?

Pretty sure the ZPR is older, matter of fact it's barely available now. Pity too - the ZPR is a pure switcher, needs external amps. The MRC has built-in amps.

Interesting on the difference in speed. Well, depressing really. If I wasn't leaning towards 1 room per zone, hence 10-11 zones, i'd sell all this stuff and buy either the russound or MRC88 myself.

Oh, good call - forgot about IP driven equipment since that's coming out now too. Curious - what's the performance difference between that and the RS232 equipment?

Sic0048: In your notes for the ZPR, you should put down that it's got a ludicrously slow RS232 protocol, so slow that I can't use regular up/down volume widgets against it and must use sliders. Nothing CQC can do about this - I think it's something stupid like 9600baud and very bad response time.

I think the better question is how often does it work? I've installed a few 'ip based' or'ip controlled' items and I have been very disappointed so far, most work but the delay over the networks, the missed commands ect are just not robust enough for me to use yet. I am sure with time it will improve but for now I only do 232, alot of good equipment out there that works great with it.

For the majority of the equipment out there 232 is plenty fast to operate it, as your only sending a few bytes through it. When you get into alot of 2 way 232 then it gets a little slower, but I still have near instant response from april aires, elan products, marantz ect.

One interesting concept thats popping up more and more is using 232 for one direction, and wifi for the feedback from the devices. I think thats alot more reliable so far, since the main commands still reach the products.

B

Any idea when the Russound VM1 will be available?

Thanks for the replys. I already own CQC, so that is the control system I will be using (however I didn't want to pull this thread off topic, so that is why I didn't mention it in the first post).
Which control system you'll be using is actually one of the most important criteria, because whether or not there's an existing interface "module" (software) available on that platform will make a HUGE difference in the time/cost of implementation.

Interestingly, Jim Scheller, who wrote our MCR88 driver, says that that one is quite snappy in response times, a couple tens of ms for most responses. Is the ZPR older or newer than the MCR88?
The ZPR is much older, but it's still a nice unit. However, there are *two* versions of it -- the ZPR68, and the ZPR68-10. I've never integrated either, with RS-232, but have been told that the latter has a better protocol, and performance.

You also forgot to mention the Crestron Adagio. Although it also contains an automation processor, it can still be used with external systems, and the information might be useful for reference...

If you can point me to the technical information, I'll go ahead and update the 1st post. I'm not really interested in spending a lot of time looking for and posting information that isn't really useful to the end user. A Crestron system is only going to be offered through a Crestron installer, and the end user isn't going to dictate specifications in that situation. I don't have anything against Crestron, it's just that this type of information that I am compiling isn't really useful to a person that is going to have a Crestron system installed. That's one of its benefits I guess, you leave the technical details to the professionals.

You may want to look at the Video-Storm CRM84. I currently use the CRM84 and control it with Cinemar's ML server.

http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CRM84

http://www.cinemaronline.com/hdtv_switches_crm84.html

Keith

I'm not really interested in spending a lot of time looking for and posting information that isn't really useful to the end user. A Crestron system is only going to be offered through a Crestron installer, and the end user isn't going to dictate specifications in that situation.
Why not? I've seen plenty of "end-users" dictate the specifications of their Crestron systems. However, I guess you're referring to *technical* specifications, as opposed to *operational* specifications -- but, that's not what you said :-)

In that case, many end-users looking at other brands in the list (B&K, Elan, Nuvo, Netstreams) aren't concerned with dictating technical specifications, as those brands are almost always sold and installed by a dealer (not DIY).

I don't have anything against Crestron, it's just that this type of information that I am compiling isn't really useful to a person that is going to have a Crestron system installed.
I think if someone is researching these systems, the more information they have available, the better. The Adagio system is designed to compete with some of the other systems you listed, and not primarily marketed to the typical "person that is going to have a 'Crestron system' installed". Therefore, (IMO) it would benefit interested parties to have it included in the list.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me whether it's in the list or not -- I was just trying to offer helpful information to those that may not be aware of it...

I thought I would update everyone one on my personal search process. I picked up a B&K CT600 and plan on using it for those zones where I want a keypad. I own CQC and will be integrating my whole house A/V through it. So some of the major rooms of the house, I do not plan on putting a B&K keypad, rather I will control those rooms with a touch screen or some other more robust CQC interface.

Therefore I plan on getting some sort of matrix switcher to control my HD and audio distribution for some rooms (where I'll have a CQC interface of some sort) and then use the B&K CT600 to distribute A/V to other rooms that won't need a full CQC interface.

For example, I'll have a CQC interface in the kitchen, den, master suite, and office so I'll get a matrix switcher to control those "zones"

In the kids bedrooms, dining room, playroom, etc, I won't have a CQC interface, so I'll use the CT600 and individual keypads in those locations to control the A/V in those rooms.

After much research and thought process, this dual hardware approach seemed the most logical in my particular situation.

Sounds cool, I ended up with the same concept. Keypads are pretty compelling for those 2nd tier rooms.

I thought I would update everyone one on my personal search process. I picked up a B&K CT600 and plan on using it for those zones where I want a keypad. I own CQC and will be integrating my whole house A/V through it. So some of the major rooms of the house, I do not plan on putting a B&K keypad, rather I will control those rooms with a touch screen or some other more robust CQC interface.

Therefore I plan on getting some sort of matrix switcher to control my HD and audio distribution for some rooms (where I'll have a CQC interface of some sort) and then use the B&K CT600 to distribute A/V to other rooms that won't need a full CQC interface.

For example, I'll have a CQC interface in the kitchen, den, master suite, and office so I'll get a matrix switcher to control those "zones"

In the kids bedrooms, dining room, playroom, etc, I won't have a CQC interface, so I'll use the CT600 and individual keypads in those locations to control the A/V in those rooms.

After much research and thought process, this dual hardware approach seemed the most logical in my particular situation.

So where you'll have a CQC interface you'll have an extra matrix switcher? I mean, the CT600 IS a matrix switcher...audio and video, albeit composite... have you looked at the HD6 to go with it? That'll match nicely with the CT600.

The thing that I'm considering is an HD6 for component video dist. and the CT600 composite video to distribute the digital audio. This leaves me with stereo line level audio and speaker level stereo on the CT600, which I'm wondering how to take advantage of. I was thinking of 6+ coax to the TV's for YPbPr, digital audio, and stereo audio from the B&K units with a dedicated remote, and using the speaker level outs for that zone in a different room as audio only with a keypad.

The reason why I am considering using a matrix switcher is simply a matter of economics. In my master plan, I will have around 14 different audio zones and potentially 4-6 HD video zones. Therefore I would require 1 more CT600 (and keep it down to 12 total zones) and 1 HD6. I figure that would run me at least $3500 in additional equipment.

With a 8x12 matrix I can get everything I am looking for in just one unit. There are two draw backs to using a matrix switcher over the B&K equipment. 1) No direct control of the matrix switcher, but I'll use CQC for local control so this is a non-issue. 2) No upscaling to Component video with the Matrix switcher which the HD6 offers, so this is a plus for the HD6.

Honestly I haven't decided completely. I may still go with the B&K solution, especially if I can pick them up at a good price.

Does anyone here have the Elan V833 HD Switcher? I have yet to see someone give a good or bad review of the Elan product.

I am between the Elan and the Borrego and would love if someone could give me some of their experiences. Good and/or bad.

This topic comes up a lot. Can this post, or one like it be made a "sticky"?

Pretty much every component video matrix is listed here. Please keep the conversation going.

I know very little about av distribution. We are building a home that will have a home theater and about 10-12 zones for audio. I have been to a few local specialty home av dealers. One suggested the Adagio system while the other suggested Elan. We may want the flexibility to control lights, HVAC, etc. Opinios as to which is superior or a better value?
Thank you,
jjkent

You should start a fresh thread about that as some folks with knowledge may not read this bit.

Also, you should do a search on Adagio - there have been many threads between this subforum and the Home Automation subforum.

It sounds like you are going to have a custom install. Is this correct? The adagio (part of the Crestron system) and Elan are very nice systems from what I've read. If never seen either in person however. I think they are also very commonly used by custom installers. That alone should speak volumes about the systems.

They are certainly not the lowest price point systems out there, but with most things you get what you pay for. Also, if you are using a custom installer, part of their job is deciding on the right system to use given your needs and desires. I would leave those types of decisions to the experts.

However, if you are a DIYer and a cheapskate like I am, there are certainly other systems out there (some of which are listed in this thread). However, I am looking at this as a fun hobby and learning experience and don't mind spending hours researching, installing, and tweaking my system. If I did mind those things and felt like my time was better spent doing other things, then it would be far cheaper in the long run to let a professional deal with everything (ie opportunity costs included in calculation).

if you are a DIYer and a cheapskate like I am

There are some nice extron crosspoint switches on ebay. Definitely will save you money because they wont be $3500. They are the only switches that I have found to have 12x8 matrix you need.

Autopatch is great, I use two of them! Its incredibly flexible and easy to use but its hard to find 8x8 HD compatible switches anywhere any more and new these are expensive.

I dug this thread up for someone on the CQC forum (www.charmedquark.com) and I thought it might be good to bring it back to the top.

I started this thread when I was trying to find a whole house a/v system to use. I know I searched high and low for this type of information and couldn't find it layed out in one place.

So please look over the first post and let me know if anything needs to be updated. This thread is 2 years old, so surely there is some new equipment that is available that isn't listed.

I probably need to add the Squeezebox system from Logitech. It isn't serial controllable, but it can be controlled via a IP connection, so it falls into the overall category of a system that can be controlled by a home automation system.

Thanks,

Russound Sphere - new high end, metadata to keypads/touchscreens
Russound Collage (powerline system), don't know about metadata
Nuvo Essentia - don't know much, audio only
Speakercraft MODE - Metadata to keypads

I envision a large spreadsheet, with each column entry reflecting a 1-10 score on how well a system performs that function (if at all). For example, how easy is it to play a digital song off a networked PC/server?

I dug this thread up for someone on the CQC forum (www.charmedquark.com) and I thought it might be good to bring it back to the top.

I started this thread when I was trying to find a whole house a/v system to use. I know I searched high and low for this type of information and couldn't find it layed out in one place.

So please look over the first post and let me know if anything needs to be updated. This thread is 2 years old, so surely there is some new equipment that is available that isn't listed.

I probably need to add the Squeezebox system from Logitech. It isn't serial controllable, but it can be controlled via a IP connection, so it falls into the overall category of a system that can be controlled by a home automation system.

Thanks,

Ha! I was reading the thread but not noticing the dates. Then this post was like a time warp a year and a half into the future/present.

Couple of things. What did you end up doing?

If you are still going to try to keep the first post fresh, one thing I was thinking was that it would be helpful if each product included information as to whether they sell to DIYers vs require custom installers.

I ended up with the B&K CT600. I've since bought one for my parents house as well. I'm really happy with the quality of the unit and the sound it puts out.

If it has a weakness, it is the keypads. However, I have yet to install a keypad in my installation because I use CQC to control my system rather than local keypads. My parents set up will have a couple of keypads, but in locations like the master bathroom where it seems like it is the easiest solution.

I originally tried to stay away from the whole price and installer issue because it varies so much. We all know there is the manufacturers stated policy and then there is real life.

Of course it would be bad to come here are fall in love with a particular device only to find out that you cannot buy it yourself.

9) A bunch of separate receivers with RS-232 - Analog and Digital Audio and Potentially HD Video Distribution (Depending on models choosen)
Each receiver has a max of 2 to 3 zones
Can receive and decode digital audio into 5.1/6.1/7.1 for surround sound experience
Harder to share sources among each receiver
Each receiver will have a built in AM/FM tuner
Will require home automation system to integrate receivers into usable package
No local keypads for control, can use IR as alternative


I intend to go this route with my audio system. However, I have not been able to find a low cost amplifier (receiver) that can handle digital audio and has rs232 control. I've looked at Denon, Onkyo, etc, but the cheapest I have found that might work is still over $700 each. Since I will need one of these components for each zone, I'm hoping to find a cheaper solution. Any suggestions?

Buy a Nuvo or Russound amp (just the 6 zone amp not complete package) on flebay. Get 6 zones for around 1k or a little more. If you are controlling with RS232 you don't need wall controls or extras. Also you don't need their proprietary sources as you will already have remote. Feed it Squeezebox, Sonos or other source material and enjoy.

I'm pretty sure Nuvo and Russound only offer analog systems. My audio sources and matrix switch will be sending a digital signal via optical or component cables. The amp will need to be able to convert this digital signal into at least 5.1 channels in each zone to drive the speakers.

Why do you need 5.1 in each zone? I have 6 zones I am distributing audio to each with 2 speakers and two areas each with 5.1. I am using two receivers for the 5.1 and Nuvo for the other 6 zones. How many zones are you trying to hookup?

I'm pretty sure Nuvo and Russound only offer analog systems. My audio sources and matrix switch will be sending a digital signal via optical or component cables. The amp will need to be able to convert this digital signal into at least 5.1 channels in each zone to drive the speakers.

Why do you need 5.1 in each zone? I have 6 zones I am distributing audio to each with 2 speakers and two areas each with 5.1. I am using two receivers for the 5.1 and Nuvo for the other 6 zones. How many zones are you trying to hookup?

I guess the main reason for 5.1 is because I can. Most likely there will not be subs in each zone, but I do intend to put 4 speakers in any area that has a screen such as the den and a few bedrooms. I will most likely have a couple zones that only have two speakers, but I would prefer to have the flexibility of doing anything I want in each zone. The matrix switch I have my eye on will support up to 8 zones.

McSmarty, are your two 5.1 zones in any way connected to your Nuvo setup?

So please look over the first post and let me know if anything needs to be updated. This thread is 2 years old, so surely there is some new equipment that is available that isn't listed.

Since then, HTD has redone its offerings. They still offer the MC-86 (it's an MC2-86 now), but now they also offer an RS232 system -- MCA66. It's 6 zones, no paging. But it does have RS232, which was the original topic.

This is a helpful thread, so I'm glad to see it revived and updated. I had no idea about some of these other systems until I read it here.

Now if we can only get the economy turned around, I might be able to use one of them! ;)

My main family room has most of my equipment. Sqeezebox feeding my nuvo to 6 zones in my house via analog and same squeezebox is running digital into my Denon 4308 5.1. In my game room i have 5.1 and plan on getting another squeezebox receiver to feed it digitally although right now i mostly use it for video games and occasionally movies.



I guess the main reason for 5.1 is because I can. Most likely there will not be subs in each zone, but I do intend to put 4 speakers in any area that has a screen such as the den and a few bedrooms. I will most likely have a couple zones that only have two speakers, but I would prefer to have the flexibility of doing anything I want in each zone. The matrix switch I have my eye on will support up to 8 zones.

McSmarty, are your two 5.1 zones in any way connected to your Nuvo setup?

Hey McSmarty

i just came across a cheap Nuvo Ess. Can u give me more info on your setup. I'm only need to dig zone one in living room 5.1 and the rest just 2 speakers in one room.

I have Nuvo Grand Concerto amp (from specs Ess. looks like same except amp 50% less power). I feed it DirecTV for XM Radio and Squeezebox Duet which plays 45+ GB of high bitrate mp3's stored on my computer. I control everything with Pronto remote which turns zones on, controls volume and changes sources as well as controls all my other equipment. My Squeezebox is also digitally connected to my 5.1 stereo. It works really well.

Hey McSmarty

i just came across a cheap Nuvo Ess. Can u give me more info on your setup. I'm only need to dig zone one in living room 5.1 and the rest just 2 speakers in one room.

thanks for the quick response. I also have a pronto. Well i came across the nuvo ess. at a pawn shop for cheap. I have 30 days to bring it back. I guess my question is "should i keep it"? I am a newbie at all of this but i am a real diyer. I just recieve the main unit no volume controls are anything. I am planning on running ML or CQC as my control system.

Any thoughts anyone?

thanks for the quick response. I also have a pronto. Well i came across the nuvo ess. at a pawn shop for cheap. I have 30 days to bring it back. I guess my question is "should i keep it"? I am a newbie at all of this but i am a real diyer. I just recieve the main unit no volume controls are anything. I am planning on running ML or CQC as my control system.

Any thoughts anyone?

how cheap is cheap? NuVo makes some great stuff, if it'll meet your needs then it's awesome. For me, i got a concerto & expander as I wanted to do the 1 zone per room concept, plus the unpowered outputs were perfect for feeding my Denon3805/home theater room.

I'm using CQC, it's been a while since i heard anyone new around these parts using ML.

I got it for $250 (i hope thats cheap). I just deleted ml trial version off my system, every time i tried to rip a movie with their media center an error message would shut it down. I called ml support and they are very helpful, but i think i was calling to much. I will install cqc in a minute and give it a try.

What volume control can i use that has a way to tell my daughter what station she is using. Do i have use NUVO stuff only.

I got it for $250 (i hope thats cheap). I just deleted ml trial version off my system, every time i tried to rip a movie with their media center an error message would shut it down. I called ml support and they are very helpful, but i think i was calling to much. I will install cqc in a minute and give it a try.

You should watch the CQC 101 webinar located in the site in my sig, it'll shortcut hours of frustration. CQC isn't an "off-the-shelf" package that's just a plug-n-play, but for home automation it's one of the best & most powerful. It's "DIY-Friendly" but designed for the professional integration market. Unfortunately the combo means it's rather daunting for newcomers.


What volume control can i use that has a way to tell my daughter what station she is using. Do i have use NUVO stuff only.

Meaning keypads? Yeah, nuvo-only if you use it standalone. If you use CQC, you could get small touchscreens (either mobile or wallmounted) or a wifi PDA, and display a screen that shows whatever you want (ie, nuvo volume, station, select a CD, turn on/off lights, etc).

I updated the first post with some of the latest products. As aways feel free to point out errors or make suggestions.

Thanks,

Thanks for taking the time to update, Brian.

I recently learned that the Nuvo GC doesn't have native paging capability, as you have listed, but Nuvo's 'ProZone' website has a white paper detailing the combination of the Nuvo + a Viking SLP-1, to provide a doorbell chime through the Nuvo's speakers. A different Viking product (can't recall which) allows paging from the phone system, through the Nuvo speakers. So, you CAN do paging with the Nuvo GC, if you buy some other items, from Viking.

Thanks, I'll add the potential work around for the Nuvo on the first post.

Added the Xantech HD88CC5 HD Video Matrix Switcher.

Any reason Niles isn't included?

Hello Everyone

I would be grateful for any assistance at all, really hoping someone is still monitoring this thread...

I have Component (5 cable) runs to all 12 TV's in my house, from the central media closet. The runs range from 30 feet to roughly 125 feet..

I already have IR receivers at each TV location (all running back to the closet already), so all I would like to do to control whatever matrix i ultimately choose, is place an emitter on the matrix IR receiver in the closet..

So.... All I am looking for is a 4 (or more) source x 12 Component HD Matrix (with both analog right/left and digital coax audio), capable of 1080i or better. Should also amplify HD Component signals to make the long runs over the existing RCA cables. (Not too interested in Baluns or anything over cat6, unless necessary-- I do have the cat6 runs should i need to use them, but I'd prefer not)..

Here is the kicker.... I would like the matrix to have a small, simple remote, that essentially lets me press input 1, 2, 3, or 4, specific to a zone... And that's it.. Essentially I would like to put a remote at each TV, but each remote needs to be recognized as being relevant to only the relevant zone.

I would prefer the remote in each room to only control the input choice for that room... Not the whole house. In effect, the remote placed at the zone 1 TV should only control the input choice for zone 1, and that's it.

Can't thank you enough forr your help with this, look forward to your replies.

Regards
Geoff