I am putting together a list of all the touchscreen companies out there (Not necessarily control companies, touchscreen manufacturers). We all know the big names - Crestron, AMX etc. These I know inside out and plenty more. But what are some of you using and/or what have you looked at. I am talking about the following:

1. Shipping products. Not closeouts.

2. NOT a tablet PC or full computer. It must run XP Embedded or something similar (I don't care what the OS is).

I saw a post on some forum sometime recently but before I try and hunt it down, does a 5-8" screen running CE.NET or a PPC OS count? It can technically be used as a touchscreen, if your environment can handle such an environment.

That would be fine BUT it must allow the entire screen to be turned into a touchscreen. In other words, if I have to hit start and launch a browser, that's not by my definition a (truly control system friendly) touchscreen. I should have clarified that in my first post.

Wouldn't that be a function of the control software that you put on it, and not really a hardware/TS question? If the software you load on it has a fullscreen mode, you could just put that in the startup folder for the PPC OS/CE.NET, and let it go to town.

Found one post - the Viewsonic V212 (http://www.viewsonic.com/products/mobilewireless/wirelessmonitors/v212/index.htm). It runs CE 5.0, so can run a .NET viewer if your control system has such a thing.

There's still another post I saw out there somewhere that was a smaller screen, i'll see if I can remember where that was.

I should also qualify the use of the term "tablet" since that seems to mean different things to different people. I do not want something with a moving hard drive that has to boot up and run full Windows. Nobu calls this product a tablet (click on N12TBPC) but it will run XP embedded and would meet my requirements for the list:

http://www.nobu-usa.com/products.html#

I believe that is the Sahara tablet from tabletkiosk.com , you can get it with a 520MB solid state Flash drive...just a note if you buy it from NOBU you'll probably pay 5k...for that 8" screen they sell msrp is $3400 and I believe dealer cost is $2950 from what I've read on the web


http://www.tabletkiosk.com/products/sahara/i215_pp.asp

http://www.tabletkiosk.com/tkstore/pc/catalog/img_i215p_general2.jpg

Kube has some RDP client type WinCE tablets, and XP based tablets.

http://www.kubecorp.com/products_roomvue_rv10ts.asp

But the CE one is still 4.2, and our DNV requires 5.0.

Wow, lots of real expensive solutions. :)

I just use WIJET.G's and some cheap touchscreen panels. The WIJET.G (http://www.gmpcm.com/wijet.htm) is available for around $300, touchscreen VGA panels (http://www.gmpcm.com/network.htm#LCD) range from $250 for a fixed 7 in. unit up to $400 for a fully motorized LCD VGA touch screen that you can mount in a wall, undercabinet, in a table, etc. Wireless USB for the touchscreen links could get a bit expensive, so that is something you may actually want to wire in. You could place a panel in each room of your home, and use AIVMS (http://www.gmpcm.com/AIVMSfeatures.htm) to select the controlling panel based on motion, touch, or RFID sensed location. Each WIJET has its own IP address so its pretty easy to set up a multipoint control system.

Wow, lots of real expensive solutions. :)

I just use WIJET.G's and some cheap touchscreen panels. The WIJET.G (http://www.gmpcm.com/wijet.htm) is available for around $300, touchscreen VGA panels (http://www.gmpcm.com/network.htm#LCD) range from $250 for a fixed 7 in. unit up to $400 for a fully motorized LCD VGA touch screen that you can mount in a wall, undercabinet, in a table, etc. Wireless USB for the touchscreen links could get a bit expensive, so that is something you may actually want to wire in. You could place a panel in each room of your home, and use AIVMS (http://www.gmpcm.com/AIVMSfeatures.htm) to select the controlling panel based on motion, touch, or RFID sensed location. Each WIJET has its own IP address so its pretty easy to set up a multipoint control system.

Would you still need a PC with each of those options? I *think* so, but perhaps i'm missing something.

Thats pretty obvious. :rolleyes: It also means you dont need a bunch of client licenses for the HA software you use. Software seems to be a large expense for HA systems now, but that is really only due to the vendors pushing their overpriced products so heavily. There are much less expensive alternatives, especially for the DIY'er which is where we happen to specialize.

Forgive me, not clueing in. If you need a PC for each of those, then why would that be cheaper than the previous options?

You only need 1 pc. Your primary HTPC is the controlled by any of the touch screens. Sorry if the idea blows your marketing out of the water, but thats life. :)

If you really think that people need to spend thousands just for terminals to run per-client licensed software, think again.. :p

Not all of them are client licensed of course, just for the record. CQC is a site license.

The typical touch screen like we offer uses USB for the touch control. The VGA is transmitted over TCP/IP so there is no need for multiple VGA cards.
With a WiJET.G and a wireless USB setup the only thing you really need to wire is supply power to the monitor, USB receiver, and WIJET - which is 12v from an AC dongle.

There is also the option of something like this:

http://www.thinsoftinc.com/product_pc_sharing_betwin.aspx

You can run up to 4 virtualized sessions from one machine. They aren't RDP sessions, they are real Windows sessions and each one is always active. For automation purposes in a multi-person dwelling, this might be a better option, since people don't have to fight for control of the single machine.

You can run up to 4 virtualized sessions from one machine. They aren't RDP sessions, they are real Windows sessions and each one is always active. For automation purposes in a multi-person dwelling, this might be a better option, since people don't have to fight for control of the single machine.

But then you are right back to running mulitple computers or tablets, along with a couple thousand for each as a ball park. May as well run VNC on them, same deal and its free.

No, it just requires four video cards and four screens.

No, it just requires four video cards and four screens.
Dean, just for the record IIUC thinsoft and betwin, winconnect XP, etc you are supposed to have a windows OS license for each session. I don't know how the water gets muddied when you're using all sessions to do the same thing.

QQQ,
I don't know if it fits your requirements or not since I can't find the reference. One of the guys over on the CQC forum was using an Elo touch screen PC of some sort. IIRC it ran XP and could be wall mounted etc. I don't recall about the hard drive one way or the other or if it was full up win xp or not. It did have enough smarts to run a CQC client natively on the network. Don't know if this will help or not.

Have any of you actually tried to install multple VGA cards in a typical computer, I mean besides the SLI dual PCI-E system which is not relevant in this instance?

Mechanic,

To clarify, since you use TCPIP---->VGA, does that mean each touchscreen can simultaneously display different pages?

No, it is more like a remote desktop using only a monitor, although you can have separate intro screens for each one.
The advantage is you do not need use a PC or tablet as the terminal, it saves on heat issue problems, cost, wiring, and all the other complications of running several PC's for multipoint remote control.

Have any of you actually tried to install multple VGA cards in a typical computer, I mean besides the SLI dual PCI-E system which is not relevant in this instance?

Well, if you are planning on doing this, you wouldn't buy a 'typical' computer, you'd pick one that is amenable to it. I assume there must be some, or they couldn't be selling this product to begin with?

Well, if you are planning on doing this, you wouldn't buy a 'typical' computer, you'd pick one that is amenable to it.
Care to provide an example of a cost effective system capable of running more than 2 video cards with ease? Ive built a few pc's professionally in my day, and I really doubt that such an animal is going to be inexpensive. There is a big difference between a video card capable of dual display output and a system running two separate video cards. A PC by design has limitations on the number of interrupts and DMA addresses it can provide to the bus without conflict issues. The typical PC BIOS was simply not designed with multiple video cards in mind. Once you have that problem solved, you get to deal with issues such as the lack of mpeg decoders that will work with simutaneous multiple monitors, etc..

The stuff on the floor is getting pretty deep in here, see ya'all later...

Here's a MB that supports four PCI-e video cards:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/10/04/one_gigabyte_motherboard/

Of course you could run much lower end (cooler and cheaper) video cards than the ones they show there, since that machine is for gaming probably.

It doesn't need to be cheap, since it's competing against the cost of 4 complete systems. Yes it would be more expensive than your solution, but your solution isn't going to be acceptable in most medium to higher end automation installations because of the requirement to have more than one touch screen active at once, potentially all of them. That's a pretty basic requirement in the automation world.

Even if the MB plus four video cards plus the computer itself with enough oomph and displays and KVM extenders cost $5K, that's still a good deal in the automation world, and you end up with a real four display system.

So let's say (very roughly):

1. Computer with that MB, 2GB memory - $1000
2. Four video cards - $500
3. 3 Lilliputs plus 1 15" Planer - $1200
4. CQC license - $895
5. 4 Cat-5 KVM extenders - $800

So that's around $4.5K. In the automation world, that's not a bad deal for what you would get out of that. Not sure what the four XP licenses would be, since there are various ways to purchase those.

Don't know if you care about price point, But I've always salivated over the touchtronix stuff. (http://www.touchtronix.com/products/relaytouch-utma.html)

It needs a PC, just not a dedicated one. hence, I'm not sure it meets all your qualifications or not.

It's getting deep, but not on my end.



And that proves what? I can run more than one display off of my single video card. No magic there i'm afraid.
We were talking about running multiple video cards, and I said it was expensive, not impossible. It seems that most posters here are simply trying to twist things into their perspective no matter if the approach is realistic or not. A pc setup with a quad royal pci-e 4 vid card mb and 2mb of memory for $1000. Jeesh, I mean I was not born yesterday, you would have a hell of a time even finding a quad royal mb to buy, let alone for less than its $500 retail cost.
And if we want to compare by cost, then beat this:

LCD touch screen : $235.00

WiJET.G 802.11g Wireless VGA : $325.00

That is less than $600 in hardware per node and you can use any ole PC with the software you are running on it now.
I guess you expect people to run VGA cables through their house, that should be real fun!

Just a quick search for that motherboard show:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__GigaByte_GA_8N_SLI_Motherboard,__14794708/

I would never buy from the lowball provider in these types of things, but the high one is $125. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong thing. This is an 'in the closet' box, so the enclosure can be ugly and loud as long as it provides enough cooling and juice from the power supply, so no need to spend much on aesthetics. And, as I said, it was a very rough estimate. If it was $1500, it wouldn't affect the overall conclusion that it would be a very powerful solution for a pretty good price relative to what you'd pay for something similar from Crestron or AMX (since we are talking about full color touch screens, one of them 15" and a powerful and expandable backend controller.)

That is for the old model GA-8N. Gigabit happens to use some very ambiguous part number conventions, and a site like pricegrabber just matches to the GA-8N prefix. The Quad Royal is a completely different version of the GA-8N that it is displayed in your quickie link. Then again if you happened to even follow one of those pricegrabber links and looked at the result you would have known that.

You really cannot be serious. Do you actually expect "anyone" to run VGA cables throughout their house? :D

there is something called "wireless usb", will wonders never cease..

Before my switch to Citrix and Winterms I ran VGA and USB cables to a few locations. I am still doing this in one location because it is easier.

Back to the origional question, if you are including terminal services based solutions like Citrix and Thinsoft take a look at some of the Wyse Winterms. They run various versions of WinCE and linux. Almost all of them support sound and USB so you can combine them with any touchscreen including ones with speakers or run them out to external sound systems for a quick distributed audio. I have used this feature in the summer for parties out by my grill. No moving parts or local storage and simple connections make them perfect for fixed panel locations.

I swear I just seen 5 monitors mounted to plywood and seconds later they were gone ;-)

That is for the old model GA-8N. Gigabit happens to use some very ambiguous part number conventions, and a site like pricegrabber just matches to the GA-8N prefix. The Quad Royal is a completely different version of the GA-8N that it is displayed in your quickie link. Then again if you happened to even follow one of those pricegrabber links and looked at the result you would have known that.

As I said, even if it was considerably more, it wouldn't change the basic equation in the automation market, because what it's being compared to is much more expensive. It shows here at $442:

http://www.computerstore.co.nz/store/web/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=361&idproduct=3718

Not enough to make any real difference in my point. Other places seemed to be around the $500 mark. It's $400 at this place:

http://www.excaliberpc.com/Gigabyte_GA-8N-SLI_Quad_Royal_with/GA-8N-SLI_Quad_Royal/partinfo-id-561631.html


You really cannot be serious. Do you actually expect "anyone" to run VGA cables throughout their house?

There were Cat-5 based KVM extenders in the package I listed above, so it would just require a Cat-5 to each touch screen, plus local power of course.

BTW, Mark is looking at a doc for the Q1:

http://www.charmedquark.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3271

hello there i am new to forum
just to ask, can this setup you have listed work independently using multiple screens
doing multiple tasks, like playing wm, internet, etc

Which specific one are you refering to?

Thanks for your reply
I am refering to the message that member mechanic states
WIJET.G, AIVMS, TOUCHSCREEM VGA PANELS

I think it was made clear that it is a single session product, in which you can bring that one session to a given screen, i.e. it is not multiple independent sessions. For something like that you'd have to do a UDP type scenario or something like the BeTwin product listed above or a Citrix type product.

It looks like Betwin needs a computer with more than one video card

It looks like Betwin needs a computer with more than one video card

That is true. If you are going to have truely independent sessions, you only really have three options. One is that you use some variant of an RDP style scheme, which has some limitations on the video front, or you have to have multiple video cards to drive multiple video sessions, or you need standalone network clients.

ok then what would be an alternate method to control my apps that are on my
computer that is located in the basement throughout my house
i would like to use like a 7" touch panel mounted in wall

How do you feel about a 10" screen, a la Fujitsu 3400 touchscreen tablet PC? I wallmounted mine, there's a thread here somewhere I'll hunt down.

You can use a variety of software options on it, from Girder/NetRemote (entry level, perfect for stuff like this) to MainLobby to CQC (top end).

thanks IVB
i like the idea of the fujitsu, started biding on two
started doing research on mainlobby, I think this needs a server, and a whole lot of different
apps from them to work with the fujitsu touch panels

"started doing research on mainlobby, I think this needs a server, and a whole lot of different
apps from them to work with the fujitsu touch panels "

You can run the MainLobby client on the fujitsu. This then networks to a regular, decent PC running MainLobby Server software. The server then is physically connected to your IR/ RS232 / TCP etc. devices.

What diff apps do you mean?

smoothtlk thanks
then i would need to purchase additional client software?
and also is the fujistu 3400 fast enough for running app mail lobby

The default license supports up to 5 concurrant connected clients. More than most use. So, you need one license of MainLobby Client, and one of MainLobby Server. Best price when purchased as the "combo".

The 3400 will run the MainLobby client.

thank you so much guys
will keep posting later on my sysytem

You really cannot be serious. Do you actually expect "anyone" to run VGA cables throughout their house? :D
Of course not - that would be ludicrious.

...They're far too inferior. I'm going to run DVI/HDMI cables through my house, so I get high quality HDTV at every screen if desired.

As for your price point, it doesn't matter if it doesn't solve the problem, which is multiple independent displays.

Second note on this.. Instead of a $3000+ mega-system that has multiple video cards, etc.. Why not four or more independent ~$350 machines?

That would take quite a bit of room in the rack space, but that gives me an idea... Buying multiples of:
- power supply (unless you could rig one to power multiple motherboards)
- motherboard (onboard video and NIC)
- hard drive, or even better.. a CF to IDE adapter with 2-4GB CF card with no noise or moving parts
- RAM

Then build/modify a case to encorporate the multiple motherboards, with a drive chassis for the hard drives, and stacked power supplies. That would be a fun project... and cheap.

Either way, a bunch of "disposable computers" or even old/used ones would work just fine. We're not really asking them to do much except be a GUI.

For multiple PC take a look at Dell's outlet. I just ordered 3 slimline systems from them for $330 each. If you want to put multiples in 1 chassis there are a few rack mount backplane systems that will fit the build. They support 4 SBC cards. Check out gtweb.net to get an idea of what is out there. I used to use these kinds of systems for render farms since space and price limited my selection.

Yeh, I've put forward that scenario many times as well. For a higher end system, a blade server system could be a possibility. The lowest end blades available would be fine for driving a touch screen client. Even new, you can find little Mini-ITX systems for around $700 with XP installed.

Great info - thanks. I'll check them out.

Ive been looking and looking and looking and ended up with these so far.

Tablet Kiosk has a newer 10" and 12" model with better dock sometime this month according to their rep

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/Picture125.jpg

The airpanel would be perfect but a little slow for me, If the tablet Kiosks would dump their HDs for flash drive you could dump some weight and the fan and have something

Of course not - that would be ludicrious.

...They're far too inferior. I'm going to run DVI/HDMI cables through my house, so I get high quality HDTV at every screen if desired.

As for your price point, it doesn't matter if it doesn't solve the problem, which is multiple independent displays.


Running DVI/HDMI through your house is not ludicrous? Maybe you should do a bit of research first. :p

With our systems you have a single machine broadcasting its video wirelessly to up to 5 touchpanels simultaneously, each with its own independent touch input. Lets actually get serious for a minute, and ask ourselves how much more independent does it need to be? Or are we just concluding that there is some dire need to have a system where more than one person requires "exclusive" access, however infrequent the reality of that actually happening is?

Not only does the cost of our solutions beat just about any alternative, there are also other factors such as cooling (a tablet mounted in a wall is not real easy to ventilate), and energy conservation typically goes out the door with separate standalone solutions. Knowing how fun it would be to maintain several independent PC's mounted throughout the home is also something that should be experienced firsthand before proclaiming such solutions ideal. PC's of any type tend to wear out much faster than a standalone touchpanel.

Its interesting how much negativity exists towards any new ideas that compete in any way with the "expensive" old school approaches, but then the software vendors that create posts like this in order to promote their products are rather vocal when potential profit loss is suspected. :rolleyes:
Technology evolves, and aspects such as wireless USB have only recently become readily available. Perhaps its time to re-evaluate what an optimal home automation system really is?

Wow, you have the audacity to insult others as well as slam vendors for pushing their wares, all in the middle of a big sales pitch; make that multiple sales pitches. :rolleyes:

My point is that not everyone is averse to running cables through their house. Wireless technologies are not 100% reliable nor do they have the performance capability of wired systems, all other things being equal.

So let's get back to independent. You say that they have independent inputs, yet supposedly don't have exclusive access. The bottom line is whether, if you interact with one screen, does it reflect on another one? If so, then no, I wouldn't want a system like that.

Well you go run your DVI cables then, ok.
Since DVI has a 5m max and HDMI is not much better at 15m, it should not take you long at all. IOW, the only one insulting you is yourself by posting something stupid like that.

We refer interested parties directly to the manufacturer representative for the wireless VGA and Wireless USB products I illustrated here, so I have no financial interest in that at all. I am pretty sure we could manage a "buy now" button if we were actually selling these systems on our website, but I cant expect someone with your obvious insight to figure that one out, can I. If a discussion happens to lead into new technology that conflicts with your vendor promoted ideas, you might want to at least try understanding the concepts before grasping for false issues in your attempts to discourage them.

You need to get your facts straight, then reassess who's posting something stupid.

I'm currently using a 30' DVI cable, and countless others have used 50'+ DVI cables without a problem. Granted, they're of higher quality, but that's assumed.

I'm not suggesting that the technology you're presenting isn't useful; I'm saying it's not necessarily the holy grail for everyone to implement, which is what you seem to be suggesting. Not everyone's wants/needs fit into a nice little box you can sell, despite salesmen's attempts to do so.

Thank you for the additional ad hominem insult; you prove my point.

Most of us here are aware of the "well documented specification" for distance limits pertaining to both DVI and HDMI cables. If you want to try to exceed those specs, go for it, and I hope you enjoy your signal dropouts. Intelligent people will nearly always choose a wireless solution rather than running cable through their walls. The wireless option has simply not been available until quite recently.

Not everyone's wants/needs fit into a nice little box you can sell, despite salesmen's attempts to do so.

Perhaps you should read what I stated about my financial involvement again and again unitl you can actually comprehend something other than your own mindless ranting.

I really wish the " professionals" would quit telling people how unreliable the NEW wireless products are, they almost cost me alot of grief several times and did waste my time looking into other options because not one, two or three but almost every pro I talked to said anything wireless is unreliable if it even works at all. Boy, were they wrong, I finally had a professional tell me he used wireless RS232 everywhere and in places where it HAD to work flawlessly. He was right, this wireless stuff is amazing and works everytime instantly. Im guessing installers choose to say this because they arent familiar with the wireless because the newer products that work well are fairly new and theyre still spreading the word about its unreliability.

The other thing is that wire is expensive and takes time to install ( labor + 25% markup on materials ) I personally had a 50' DVI cable and it appeared to work fantastic but............only on DVD players, HTPCs but not DirecTV DVR so I tried a 30' run and same thing except better on DirecTV, it only drops out once and a great while and doesnt like to be switched whether it be DVI switcher or receiver switching.

If running wires through attics and crawlspaces, im guessing theres actually more ways for wires to fail due to mice and such, not that the chances are good but they exsist. Ive become a true believer in wireless because I HAD to. It also saved me thousands and thousands of dollars

Mechanic,
Is there a way to send HD wirelessly across a house from DirecTV DVR to an HDTV in a cabinet 3 stories down, all I have now is hundreds of feet of coax ( House was built before HD was around.) and my non HD reciever is in the attic controlling this particular HDTV now because they can send signal with coax. I was thinking of running the coax all the way through the attic and then down to the TV and put the receiver in the cabinet but space is limited and there is only one wire in the wall making DVR funtions worthless not to mention a 300' run of coax from the dish

Most of us here are aware of the "well documented specification" for distance limits pertaining to both DVI and HDMI cables. If you want to try to exceed those specs, go for it, and I hope you enjoy your signal dropouts. Intelligent people will nearly always choose a wireless solution rather than running cable through their walls. The wireless option has simply not been available until quite recently.
No, intelligent people weigh all of their options and factor in budget, time performance, ease of installation, etc. What I've been saying this entire thread, which you seem to be completely missing, is that you're stating that wireless is obviously the superior solution in all situations. In actuality, it's the superior solution in some situations.

In my situation, I have easy access in my walls and truss spaces, so running wires is not very difficult. Performance is nearly always better in a wired solution as well. I can't get gigabit speeds from the upper-floor bedroom PC to the basement server with wireless.

My statement pushing DVI/HDMI is actually tongue and cheek, and a partial joke (though not completely) since you emphatically stated that nobody would run VGA cables in their walls, when it very well may make sense. I should have used a :) face in my response, I suppose..

Perhaps you should read what I stated about my financial involvement again and again unitl you can actually comprehend something other than your own mindless ranting.
I did read it. Read the quoted statement of mine again and again until you understand that the word "salesmen's" is not a pronoun. I wasn't directly referring to you; if I was intending to, I would have.

It's too bad you're resorting to ad hominem attacks when we could just discuss the merits of different technologies with some civility.

Mechanic,
Is there a way to send HD wirelessly across a house from DirecTV DVR to an HDTV in a cabinet 3 stories down, all I have now is hundreds of feet of coax ( House was built before HD was around.) and my non HD reciever is in the attic controlling this particular HDTV now because they can send signal with coax. I was thinking of running the coax all the way through the attic and then down to the TV and put the receiver in the cabinet but space is limited and there is only one wire in the wall making DVR funtions worthless not to mention a 300' run of coax from the dish

You may want to look into the Slingbox PRO (http://us.slingmedia.com/page/slingMediaProducts.html). Place an HTPC on the other end connected to your HDTV and your good to go. Too bad that all the cable and sat box's employ firewire rather than USB, but wireless firewire may not be too far in the future.

I don't know if Mechanic is anything other than a "worker bee" at his company, but I can HONESTLY say that technology or not, his arrogant and condescending representation on this board have ensured I will not pursue anything he suggest. Serious vendors let the product's capability speak for itself without having to insult potential clients or for that fact potential reference sources. IVB and Dean have a respectable following and advice from them carries much weight.

HOWEVER!!!!

In this barrage of techno/rant, I have reassessed my whole house command and control plan and will hop over to the CQC forum to see if it will work.

So, in a round about way....

Thanks Mechanic!!!

- Ed

I don't know if Mechanic is anything other than a "worker bee" at his company, but I can HONESTLY say that technology or not, his arrogant and condescending representation on this board have ensured I will not pursue anything he suggest. Serious vendors let the product's capability speak for itself without having to insult potential clients or for that fact potential reference sources. IVB and Dean have a respectable following and advice from them carries much weight.

HOWEVER!!!!

In this barrage of techno/rant, I have reassessed my whole house command and control plan and will hop over to the CQC forum to see if it will work.

So, in a round about way....

Thanks Mechanic!!!

- EdWith all due respect, is this type of post necessary? All I want is upfront facts and what turns my stomach more than anything is shilling. While Mechanic may be arrogant and condescending to you, his advice is highly anticipated by a dunce like me. I own CQC, Cinemar, and a host of other products Im testing in my spare time and just want straight up answers, the amount of personal attacks and shills in the automation section is beyond belief. I would rather there be individual sections dedicated to the individual products as to keep these threads clean and informational.

The use of "worker bee" isnt condesending? Nevermind calling others arrogant and condesending in a public forum, check other threads where "salesman" call other companys thieves, crooks and continually question their integrity as well as other fine examples in persuading folks not to purchase products. Automation is a tough group

I don't know if Mechanic is anything other than a "worker bee" at his company

In this barrage of techno/rant, I have reassessed my whole house command and control plan and will hop over to the CQC forum to see if it will work.


Good, dont let the door hit your butt on the way out. :rolleyes:

You are correct Mark. Hopefully the Moderator can remove my post.

- Ed