I want to get my parents started on the road to Home Automation.

My mother is not affaid of new tech, but my stepfather is rather "old school" in thinking even though he has HDTV and almost never watches DVDs, so a serious HT was never in the cards.

So the system I would like to get them started on has to be simple to use and operate for him. My mother is online daily and PC savy so anything that runs on Windows she can figure out and operate without much question or phone calls to CSR's.

I like the affordable pricing of alot of the X10 products, but it seems they have questionable reliablity for some of you. Then again, Neons are horribly reliable cars and I have NEVER had a major problem with any of the 7 I have owned since '97, so basically I look at any X10 issues as a "YMMV" and with a gain of salt.

Usually with electronics, installation is everything and often discounted if a product fails to work. In otherwords, its easier to blame the product with no way to fightback or defend itself rather than the bonehead who installed it wrong or not completely as directed.

I use ATI products, drive Dodge Neons and make liberal use of nitrous oxide.

I have never experienced any of the various "Internet Legends" that these products seem to cause other people.

So I don't have a problem taking a chance on X10 based products.

My main concerns are -

Remote Lighting Control & PC access and programing of light modules

All the "dimming" stuff is for the birds and can come later if desired.

Am I on the right track?

Am I on the right track?
On the right track how? Your post was more of a statement than a question. You've already stated your position so what type of feedback are you asking for?

I guess you are on the right track.?. Take a look at Insteon instead of x10. It is the replacement for x10.

Before you even contemplate something as painful (to me) as setting up (my) parents with a home automation system, you should fill in the blanks for this. The answer will guide you to how you want to proceed and what your 'critical success factors' are, and will help you decide how much or how little to spend, which will tell you which technologies you should entertain.

"By automating the lighting/etc in their house, my parents lives will be improved because ____________________"

Before you even contemplate something as painful (to me) as setting up (my) parents with a home automation system, you should fill in the blanks for this. The answer will guide you to how you want to proceed and what your 'critical success factors' are, and will help you decide how much or how little to spend, which will tell you which technologies you should entertain.

"By automating the lighting/etc in their house, my parents lives will be improved because ____________________"

Because it would allow my stepfather to be lazy and never get up from his chair and the 52" Sony HiScan he sits in front of everyday, after work.

A timer system on the outdoors lights would be ideal because they are on longer than need for security reasons and should go on and off automatically depending on daylight savings time.

The dimming features would be nice.

I spoke with a rep at Smart Home and they are located in Irvine, not far from here.

For now I think I'll go with the B&D Starter set with Keyfob for the backroom where my stepfather "lives". It simple and it doesn't need to be anymore than pushing a button on the keyfob remote.

For the outdoor lights, he suggested and I agreeed on a Insteon USB controller and Software. I can replace the current light switches to the outdoor lights with controllable units and setup should be fairly easy.

The next thing I wanna tackle is the sprinkler system. I don't like polishing out water spots... I usually don't get home earlier than 10pm and the sprinklers can come on while Im gone, not at 5:30 in the morning when Im not able to move the car out of the way....

It doesn't SEEM that diffcult on the surface and Im fairly "talented", I shouldn't have any problems.

Generally I was looking for feeback on what you guys felt work best and was reliable.

X10 seem okay for small stuff and works well with his own Freewire based equipment, but doesn't seem to "play" well with others, even if they claim that to be the case.

Lutton would be great, PRICEY is an understatement. This is a budget install, not a Baller system with Touchscreens. Maybe for my own home :D

SmartHome gave the impression this was an install, set and forget kind of system once the switches are programed from my mother's PC.

That's what I was looking for.

Any additional input would be great.

You might want to take a look at Centralite. I do not know how it compares price wise to the Insteon switches. I assume more but at the same time I know it is generally much less than Lutron etc. and supposed to be reliable.

http://centralite.com/products/StarLite/index.aspx

The UPB switches are also a step up from Insteon but still much less than Lutron and again are quite reliable from what I have read. Insteon seems to be a mixed bag judging from feeback from others but I have no personal experience with it. I can tell you with certainty that X-10 can be a nightmare even in the most competent hands. I did an X-10 installation many years ago in another lifetime and performed every X-10 "trick" in the book ("bridged" the two phases, repeater at the entrance etc.) . It would work really well until a new appliance got added to a house such as a computer or CD player and then we would have to go out and put a filter on those to stop the "noise" from taking down the X-10 system.

Insteon now has a sprinkler controller.
Why the PC? What value to your father / mother is the PC in the mix? Is this for you to shut the lights off remotely?

Well I thought the PC software was used to set the timers on the switches to work with Daylight Savings Time and revert back when out of that. Plus set the intial times the lights were to turn on and tune off.

The backroom just gets simple modules to remotely turn off the lights back there.

I know Insteon has a Sprinkler control unit, that's next on the list, watch the spriklers will go on again in about 2 hours from this post.

I don't know from Insteon, forgive me if this is off, but if you use zWave switches, I think their master controller can do stuff like this. I'm not positive as I use my PC, but I *think* timers and stuff like that can be set inside the remote. Might make things a little simpler.

I'm using zWave, pretty simple to install.

If the sprinkler system comes on at 5am automatically, then you should be able to change the time to come on after you have left for the day, it doesn't take a HA system to do that.

I know that may sound like a pompus statement, and I really don't mean for it to be. But I do agree with IVB when he said you really need to think about how this is going to benefit you and your parents.

Now if this is just something you want to try out because it is interesting and more of a hobby, then there is nothing wrong with that. However, I would pick my projects carefully and spend my money wisely. I personally don't think sprinkler control is going to be that fun of a project, or add a lot of perceived value for your parents.

I would suggest getting the Insteon starter kits and playing with it. Maybe even start with your room and "trick it out." That would be the most fun for you, but won't really add any value for your parents. If you want to do something more for the whole family, then I think the outdoor lights are a good start. They aren't a critical living area, so if there are problems (and there will be) your parents aren't turned off to HA because their lights in the den don't work :).

** Disclosure - this next section includes personal opinion only. It is not meant to tell people how to set up their systems, or that their systems are wrong**
Honestly, I think inorder to a HA system to really add value, it needs to incompass all areas of the house. Unfortunately that means lots of money. But until you start tying in security, a/v distribution (maybe even CCTV), HVAC, lighting, and control of all of this together, HA is more of a hobby than it is a value added part of the house.

SmartHome's HouseLinc desktop software is braindead in terms of timers. it will not download them to the PLC. I ended up returning the software because there is a freeware app that works great at creating timers and downloading them to the PLC, thus removing the PC from timer duty. The app was InHomeFre and I think I had found out about it from http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=581

Well I saw Grider can do some of the programing....

Well its kind of a hobby, the ADT provides security (has for last 3 years). The Sprinklers can be programed after I leave, but you know. Its a bitch to set, its an older Rainbird setup. I saw the Rainbird ET system and I will be turning them on to that for sure. Saves money on the water bill for sure.

The outdoor lighting should be tackled and I think I'll start there.

Thanks for the input.

FYI - cheaper than a rainbird is a rain8net that can plug into your PC's serial port. Scheduling has to be done on the PC, though, which is why it's cheaper. I dunno if Girder has a driver, but it can't be that hard to write.

I also should clarify my comments (although I don't think anyone has taken them the wrong way yet). I'm in the hobby stage too, as I have very little actually done as far as HA. So there is nothing wrong with wanting to tinker with HA. But just realize even after doing a lot of things and spending a lot of money, you still may sit back and wonder if it has really added any value. That's why I made the comments about being more hobbyish until your system integrates many areas of the house.

IVB has reached the point where he would say his sytem has definitely added value for his family, but I wonder how much he integrated before he hit that "break point" and HA moved from being more of a hobby to being an important part of his families lives?

Anyway, dy4monie, welcome to the HA "family" I hope you find it as fun as the rest of us do.

Disclaimer: I am a Centralite Dealer

I have used Vantage, Lutron, even some **cough** X-10 **cough**. The Centralite hardwired systems are bulletproof and INEXPENSIVE. As far as retrofitting goes, I just installed a Centralite StarLite system in my personal home and it rocks. It is specifically for retrofit apps. My home is older and has some additions to it so I had to deal with some copper wire with nuetrals in the switch boxes and some aluminum with no nuetrals. Basically it works like a top and tied in with my Crestron, it is top rate.

Just my 2 cents.

Good feedback Chris, that's why I mentioned Centralite earlier. I did not feel it was quite the solution Lutron/Vantage etc. were when I looked at it, but I have always heard good things about it. No complaints about it not working as advertised.

Can you get light level feedback from the Centralite systems or only on/off status? I was trying to review their online docs about their software and also intergration docs on controlling Litejet/Elegance with an HAI OmniPro. It appears that the Centralite will accept on/off/set level commands, but appears to only give on/off status about the current state of the loads.

It did not exactly state this limitation, but it looked that way from the examples I saw. Since I would like to also control the lighting and get status thru a screen on touch screens (via HAI or Elk plugins to CQC), this would be a disadvantage to HA integration.

Is this also the case with Lutron and Vantage?

I have used X10 for many, many years and really do not understand the reliability issue you are alluding to. For a small system, X10 is in my mind the way to go.

I just examined Centralite, and while that's something I will consider for my future home, I personally think it's overkill for a simple system. For instance, in my HT room, I have three sets of lights that I turn on/off with my remote. To run cables, set up a control unit, etc., would be very expensive and involve ripping out drywall. That's simply too much work for too little benefit.

I have used X10 for many, many years and really do not understand the reliability issue you are alluding to. For a small system, X10 is in my mind the way to go.

Maybe the key to your success is "small system". I used X-10 primarily for outdoor lighting and pool effects (waterfall, Focal Lighting, pool light). It worked great in the beginning, but over time, we would have lights turn on for no reason, lights not respond, etc. Further, X-10 does not provide current state value to support reliable automation.

With all that said, in my new home I have decided not to go the X-10 route. (but it was a great learning curve, particularly integrating it into the Pronto device).

The requirements for the new home are similar:
Outdoor focal lights
Pool control (Water fall, light)
Ceiling Fans indoors

I don't plan to get into "lighting scenes"
I am looking into Insteon and zWave as the new targets

Here's a stupid question. In order for an lighting control system that is PC based to operate properly, does the PC always have to be on?

I would like to set up a simple system mush like the OP. I have a handful of switched lights (mostly exterior) that I would like to turn on and off and certain times.

Can the switches themselves be programmed to work independent of the PC? IF so, which brands support this?

Thanks.

There are some hardware powerline controllers that have embedded timers in them. You program them with a PC, and then you can disconnect the PC and the controller turns on / off lights according to the schedule.

So, I wouldn't call that "PC based", but "PC configured". PC based in my mind is 24x7 PC that signficantly increases what you can do and how events and hardware interact.

Which brands / models offer this "PC configured" feature as you describe it? Thanks.

check at smarthome.com for insteon plc w/ internal timer

Disclaimer: I am a Centralite Dealer

I have used Vantage, Lutron, even some **cough** X-10 **cough**. The Centralite hardwired systems are bulletproof and INEXPENSIVE. As far as retrofitting goes, I just installed a Centralite StarLite system in my personal home and it rocks. It is specifically for retrofit apps. My home is older and has some additions to it so I had to deal with some copper wire with nuetrals in the switch boxes and some aluminum with no nuetrals. Basically it works like a top and tied in with my Crestron, it is top rate.

Just my 2 cents.

I was under the impression (perhaps wrong) that the starlite system is around the same cost as Lutron's RadioRa. I think QQQ mentioned earlier that it was cheaper. Care to generalize the cost/functionality of startlite vs RadioRa?

Thanks

Can you get light level feedback from the Centralite systems or only on/off status? I was trying to review their online docs about their software and also intergration docs on controlling Litejet/Elegance with an HAI OmniPro. It appears that the Centralite will accept on/off/set level commands, but appears to only give on/off status about the current state of the loads.

It did not exactly state this limitation, but it looked that way from the examples I saw. Since I would like to also control the lighting and get status thru a screen on touch screens (via HAI or Elk plugins to CQC), this would be a disadvantage to HA integration.

IIRC, the protocol has both: one command for getting quick on/off status of all loads (1 bit per load), and another for getting the current dim level of a given load. I only use the former, since my Crestron program doesn't use touchpanel sliders for individual loads (I tend to prefer "scene" buttons, as they're much more usable in my opinion). For manual dimming, I use touchpanel buttons that behave just like the keypad buttons (tap to toggle on/off, press & hold to dim), since the users are already comfortable with that model (in this case, I'm referring to my wife and parents and inlaws -- my kids could handle a dozen different use models with no problem ;-) .

Anyway, the reason you've only seen on/off feedback examples, is probably because that's all that's used in Crestron's simple Centralite module. I'm guessing the same is true for whatever HAI/Omni example you saw...

- digiphotonerd

hello I just found a new lighting control software : Lumidesk, I think is a good product, easy to use, I want to use it for my club, anyone have this system here ? go to lumidesk.com for more info
Thanks

Fed