I enjoyed reading many pages of this thread. I liked all the feedback and no wonder why this thread has so many pages. Dalite support is also excellent patiently answering all my questions.

I have JVC RS40 projector and about to order 142 inch diagonal HP screen today. My wife complained that the light from the projector lense is falling on her eyes whenever she stands and she does not like that. She is not sure how harmful these rays are. She wanted to put the projector wherever possible without needing her to be careful whenever she stands.

I really wanted to try this screen. I told her that we can click hide button on the projector to prevent rays. She did not like the idea.

If I have to place projector higher and if screen behaves like standard screen, I don't have problem. I want to have an option at least to watch 2.4 if needed.

Appreciate any feedback on the placement. I can't wait to order to enjoy phase 2 of the my projector to use screen instead of wall.

I enjoyed reading many pages of this thread. I liked all the feedback and no wonder why this thread has so many pages. Dalite support is also excellent patiently answering all my questions.

I have JVC RS40 projector and about to order 142 inch diagonal HP screen today. My wife complained that the light from the projector lense is falling on her eyes whenever she stands and she does not like that. She is not sure how harmful these rays are. She wanted to put the projector wherever possible without needing her to be careful whenever she stands.

I really wanted to try this screen. I told her that we can click hide button on the projector to prevent rays. She did not like the idea.

If I have to place projector higher and if screen behaves like standard screen, I don't have problem. I want to have an option at least to watch 2.4 if needed.

Appreciate any feedback on the placement. I can't wait to order to enjoy phase 2 of the my projector to use screen instead of wall.

The only harm that can be caused it if she can not see where she is walking and runs into something or tips over something. This issue can be solved just like you do when the sun is shining in your eye, put your hand up in front of your face!
If you end up raising the projector you screen will work and probably still be better than the wall. One option is to get the screen and let the wife see how it looks, explain it won't be anywhere as good if we move the projector, so can you find it in your heart to please live with the slight inconvenience of raising you hand to block the light when you stand up and face the projector?
Good luck and enjoy!

The colorist who helped me with my house told me paints have a light absorption index. Some blacks reflect more light than some burgundies, for example. See if you can find that rating for the colors you are interested in. I used a very dark deep blue on the ceiling and back wall with burgundy walls. It turns out the colors don't really matter in my case, because you never really see them, even with lights full on.

What you said is right. I went to Sherwin Williams and found that each color has LRV value (Light Reflective value)

I found that Naval blue (SW 6244) has lowest LRV value 4 out of all blue colors. So for the best color for less reflection is Tricorn black SW 6258 with LRV 2.

I read in the forums that screen wall and ceiling are more important. I thought to put black on ceiling and sceen wall and put dark blue for three sides.

There is conflicting consensus that HP needs back wall to not to reflect. I do not know how it looks to have black everywhere except side walls. I will go for blue on all walls and black for ceiling for consistency.

I would have not known if there is index like LRV without reading this post. Again thanks.

What you said is right. I went to Sherwin Williams and found that each color has LRV value (Light Reflective value)

I found that Naval blue (SW 6244) has lowest LRV value 4 out of all blue colors. So for the best color for less reflection is Tricorn black SW 6258 with LRV 2.

I read in the forums that screen wall and ceiling are more important. I thought to put black on ceiling and sceen wall and put dark blue for three sides.

There is conflicting consensus that HP needs back wall to not to reflect. I do not know how it looks to have black everywhere except side walls. I will go for blue on all walls and black for ceiling for consistency.

I would have not known if there is index like LRV without reading this post. Again thanks.

I can certainly verify that minimizing reflection off the BACK wall is crucial for success with the HP screen. I have dark burgundy drapes (that my wife made) which pull across the back wall (covering up a wide closet with white doors). When the drapes are pulled back to expose the doors, the pq drops dramatically.

I also have black cloth (light wt cotton) tacked to the ceiling and side walls, and this also improves things greatly.

I can certainly verify that minimizing reflection off the BACK wall is crucial for success with the HP screen. I have dark burgundy drapes (that my wife made) which pull across the back wall (covering up a wide closet with white doors). When the drapes are pulled back to expose the doors, the pq drops dramatically.

I also have black cloth (light wt cotton) tacked to the ceiling and side walls, and this also improves things greatly.
Do you have any photos that you can share? I am thinking to go for naval blue on the walls and black on the ceiling. I prefer to put blue everywhere and then cover with black cloth where ever needed.

I heard that sound also good with more cloth. Where did you buy the black cotton cloth? I just read meaning of "tacked". I guess you put small nail.

Do you have any photos that you can share? I am thinking to go for naval blue on the walls and black on the ceiling. I prefer to put blue everywhere and then cover with black cloth where ever needed.

I heard that sound also good with more cloth. Where did you buy the black cotton cloth? I just read meaning of "tacked". I guess you put small nail.

I'm not much of a photographer, but I think you get the idea. Yes, I think the cloth does do good for audio. I used black push pins; the reason was that I initially told my wife that I wanted to 'try it out', but she soon got used to it and did appreciate the increased pq. And the push pins worked so well that I've not be motivated to re-do it.

The black material was extremely inexpensive light-weight cotton; my wife picked it up for me. I have since bought some more expensive black velour that I plan to put up this summer; not sure that it will improve things even more, for the present 'temporary' job does so well.

I'm not much of a photographer, but I think you get the idea. Yes, I think the cloth does do good for audio. I used black push pins; the reason was that I initially told my wife that I wanted to 'try it out', but she soon got used to it and did appreciate the increased pq. And the push pins worked so well that I've not be motivated to re-do it.

The black material was extremely inexpensive light-weight cotton; my wife picked it up for me. I have since bought some more expensive black velour that I plan to put up this summer; not sure that it will improve things even more, for the present 'temporary' job does so well.
I will look in Joann fabric for black cloth next time. I guess it is difficult to put the cloth on the ceiling. I will at least put in the back.

I will look in Joann fabric for black cloth next time. I guess it is difficult to put the cloth on the ceiling. I will at least put in the back.

Yes, I started with the back wall, and it is the most imp for an HP screen. After that, it is the ceiling; for that, put the push pins into the left and right sides of the ceiling (into a wooden picture molding), pulling it as tight as possible, and then needed one or two in between to get rid of any sagging.

Yes, I started with the back wall, and it is the most imp for an HP screen. After that, it is the ceiling; for that, put the push pins into the left and right sides of the ceiling (into a wooden picture molding), pulling it as tight as possible, and then needed one or two in between to get rid of any sagging.

Thanks for the idea. I am first planning to put nav blue on all sides. I will consider using cloth for next phase starting with back wall.

The only harm that can be caused it if she can not see where she is walking and runs into something or tips over something. This issue can be solved just like you do when the sun is shining in your eye, put your hand up in front of your face!
If you end up raising the projector you screen will work and probably still be better than the wall. One option is to get the screen and let the wife see how it looks, explain it won't be anywhere as good if we move the projector, so can you find it in your heart to please live with the slight inconvenience of raising you hand to block the light when you stand up and face the projector?
Good luck and enjoy!

Yeah I second this, complaing of a light in her eyes is a bit silly. I wouldn't be long setting her straight on this silliness.

Installer is coming to fix screen and wiring next week. What are options that I have if I want to put projector just above eyes, but some times to move it up. For example, when kids comes and plays and it is annoying to see their shadows. I want them to have fun and compromise quality some times.

Exploring for mounts and ideas. I liked fixing projector to wall but it can't be moved. I may look for variable height stands or extendable mounts etc. I have to figure out soon to order online if it is not available in stores.

Yes, the back wall is very imp for the HP. My wife made some dark burgundy drapes for the back wall that work great. When I pull them to the side, revealing white sliding doors to a closet, the pic degrades enormously.

My entire back wall is drapes or black fabric panels as well. As a side note, I was watching Tron Legacy and the colored tracers on the bodies were amazing on the high power screen. Absolute neon.

I saw this adjustable mount. I want to use it for jvc RS40 projector.

http://www.thefinalclick.com/Chief-KITPD0305-Projector-Ceiling-Mount-Kit-includes-RPAU-3-5-Foot-Adjustable-Extension-CMS115-Ceiling-Plate_p_88994.html

It is adjustable for 3-5 foot. Since my ceiling is 9 feet high and my eyes at 4 feet heigh, I will set at 5 feet. Occasionally, I will move it up.

Do you think it is difficult to move? I guess I need to change lense shift and zoom every time I move. Any comments?

Is anybody using this mount?

hey guys, I'm considering a High Power and I thought I'd ask a few questions. I'm thinking about pairing a 150" screen with either a:

- Sharp XV-Z17000 3D projector (1600 lumens)
- BenQ W6000 projector (2500 lumens)

It will be a ceiling mount at 15'-17'. I have what might be a large amount of uncontrollable ambient light (windows) that may impact the brightness of the room depending on the time of day.

1.) Can the Sharp @ 1600 lumens + the High Power screen manage with a fair amount of ambient light?

2.) Is the High Power okay for 3D projectors? I see Da-Lite also sells "3D Virtural Grey", but am not sure if I should be looking at that instead since I'm interesting in setting this up with a 3D projector.

Thanks for any insight, guys.

hey guys, I'm considering a High Power and I thought I'd ask a few questions. I'm thinking about pairing a 150" screen with either a:

- Sharp XV-Z17000 3D projector (1600 lumens)
- BenQ W6000 projector (2500 lumens)

It will be a ceiling mount at 15'-17'. I have what might be a large amount of uncontrollable ambient light (windows) that may impact the brightness of the room depending on the time of day.

1.) Can the Sharp @ 1600 lumens + the High Power screen manage with a fair amount of ambient light?

2.) Is the High Power okay for 3D projectors? I see Da-Lite also sells "3D Virtural Grey", but am not sure if I should be looking at that instead since I'm interesting in setting this up with a 3D projector.

Thanks for any insight, guys.

You are not going to get any benefit from the HP screen if you mount your projector on the ceiling. Please read the first post of this thread and keep in mind the new HP is not as bright as the old which was around when this tread was started.

You are not going to get any benefit from the HP screen if you mount your projector on the ceiling. Please read the first post of this thread and keep in mind the new HP is not as bright as the old which was around when this tread was started.

understood. ty.

1.) Can the Sharp @ 1600 lumens + the High Power screen manage with a fair amount of ambient light?

2.) Is the High Power okay for 3D projectors? I see Da-Lite also sells "3D Virtural Grey", but am not sure if I should be looking at that instead since I'm interesting in setting this up with a 3D projector.

1) In my experience - no. The HP does not reject ambient light any better than a normal white screen. It gets a bit brighter, but if you have any ambient light hitting the screen it will wash out the image to a large degree.

I can have an overhead light aimed at the sofa and still get a decent picture except in the darkest scenes (but that's also true for a normal white screen). However, any light that will be directed towards the screen, no matter the angle of incidence, will wash out the image making it more or less unwatchable.

2) Depends. Not for projectors using passive glasses and polarization to separate the left and right images. For shutter glasses - yes, it will work just fine and give you a welcomed boost in brightness. The sharp uses shutter glasses and with this projector it would be pointless to get the Virtual Grey screen. It will actually degrade picture quality with hotspotting (non uniformity), color shifts and sparklies. This screen is only recommended when retention of polarization is needed.

1) In my experience - no. The HP does not reject ambient light any better than a normal white screen. It gets a bit brighter, but if you have any ambient light hitting the screen it will wash out the image to a large degree.

I can have an overhead light aimed at the sofa and still get a decent picture except in the darkest scenes (but that's also true for a normal white screen). However, any light that will be directed towards the screen, no matter the angle of incidence, will wash out the image making it more or less unwatchable.

2) Depends. Not for projectors using passive glasses and polarization to separate the left and right images. For shutter glasses - yes, it will work just fine and give you a welcomed boost in brightness. The sharp uses shutter glasses and with this projector it would be pointless to get the Virtual Grey screen. It will actually degrade picture quality with hotspotting (non uniformity), color shifts and sparklies. This screen is only recommended when retention of polarization is needed.

While I agree that ambient light is a bad idea for a projection environment, to say that the HP is unwatchable with any light directed at the screen is not true in my experience. With halogen track lights aimed from the ceiling onto my HP, and the whole track lighting system up to a moderate level, the image in my theater is very "watchable." Not ideal, certainly, but not horrible, either. That's for things like baseball, news, or other shows where image quality might be secondary to the need to keep lights up a bit. I don't like to do it, but it's a lot better than "plain white" screens, which usually do wash out with any ambient light. As long as the light is not coming from behind the projector, I suspect many people would be happy with the HP image in a lighter room. That said, taking the time to make my home theater room dark was the single best step I've taken to improve it. However, some people just can't do that, and the HP can be a good choice for them, if they understand how it works. Rejecting ambient light is something it does better than a lot of screens.

You are not going to get any benefit from the HP screen if you mount your projector on the ceiling. Please read the first post of this thread and keep in mind the new HP is not as bright as the old which was around when this tread was started.

I have mine ceiling mounted, but it was tough finding a peerless mount that dropped far enough down.

Its a little over a foot above eye level, i get quite a bit of gain off of it. The calculator i think gave me 2.2-2.3

At times i sometimes think its to bright but then as the bulb dims it works great.

While I agree that ambient light is a bad idea for a projection environment, to say that the HP is unwatchable with any light directed at the screen is not true in my experience. With halogen track lights aimed from the ceiling onto my HP, and the whole track lighting system up to a moderate level, the image in my theater is very "watchable." Not ideal, certainly, but not horrible, either. That's for things like baseball, news, or other shows where image quality might be secondary to the need to keep lights up a bit. I don't like to do it, but it's a lot better than "plain white" screens, which usually do wash out with any ambient light. As long as the light is not coming from behind the projector, I suspect many people would be happy with the HP image in a lighter room. That said, taking the time to make my home theater room dark was the single best step I've taken to improve it. However, some people just can't do that, and the HP can be a good choice for them, if they understand how it works. Rejecting ambient light is something it does better than a lot of screens.

I don't know if you have the 2.4 or 2.8 version but my experience doesn't mirror yours. My 2.4 HP doesn't reject ambient light at all no matter where the light is coming from. As can be seen by the pictures I have experimented putting a piece of paper on the screen with lights coming from the side (very far to the side) and the paper and the screen have virtually the same brightness from my seating position.

The first picture shows a flashlight directed towards the screen and paper in a dark environment, seen from my central seating position.

The second picture shows how the light us situated in comparison to the screen.

I don't know if you have the 2.4 or 2.8 version but my experience doesn't mirror yours. My 2.4 HP doesn't reject ambient light at all no matter where the light is coming from. As can be seen by the pictures I have experimented putting a piece of paper on the screen with lights coming from the side (very far to the side) and the paper and the screen have virtually the same brightness from my seating position.

The first picture shows a flashlight directed towards the screen and paper in a dark environment, seen from my central seating position.

The second picture shows how the light us situated in comparison to the screen.

I have the 2.8, but it should make little difference. A retro-reflective screen like the HP gets its gain by "collecting" light and returning more of it back toward the light source than off to the sides. That's why it dims as you walk out of the cone. A bright light hitting the screen at an angle (from the side or the ceiling) will reflect more of the light back toward that source, and therefore away from the viewer's eyes. The result is less washout.

It's easy enough to test. Take a flashlight off to the side and shine it on the HP as you stand there. See how much light is reflected back. Now leave the light there but move away from the flashlight. The further you move from the light source, the dimmer that light source will appear on screen. If the HP didn't work this way, it wouldn't give you any gain, and it wouldn't reject ambient light the way it does.

I think your experiment does show how the "ambient light rejection" of the HP functions. Consider that the paper represents maybe just under 1.0 gain. If the HP has side-light gain of close to 1.0 gain and light from the projector providing a 2.2-2.6 gain, it's a huge improvement in the ratio of unwanted light to projector-provided light.

A 1.1-1.3 gain retroreflective screen would be lighting up a similar amount from side-lighting, but wouldn't be near as bright from the projected light, so you have the ability to have an improved contrast ratio with side-lighting using a retro-reflective material like the HP.

It's not a panacea of course, but try the same experiment while showing projected material, and take pics from your seating area. The HP may wash out the blacks to a similar amount to that of the paper, but the brighter parts of the image will be substantially brighter on the HP, which in effect preserves more of the contrast ratio.

So maybe "ambient light rejection" is not the proper term, but the ratio between the brightness of direct-reflected light versus side-reflected light is substantial with the HP material.

I still much prefer and strongly recommend that ANY projected material be used in a totally darkened environment.

Joseph,

I agree that it sends more light back to the source from the side. However, it sends enough light toward the seating position that the difference compared to a 1.0 gain screen really is negligible to the naked eye. It might be slightly less bright, but you would only really see it in a direct comparison if then! The thing is the screen both acts as a retroreflector and as disperser of light. It has both a normal white substrate and retro reflective beads. It will disperse light from the sides very effectively.

Test it yourself with a piece of paper and you would see that your screen is not darker than the paper from your seat no matter where the light is coming from! There is in principle no ambient light rejection.

What I'm trying to say is what Dave wrote. You get a slightly higher contrast ratio than a normal white screen, but it's not from light rejection or lower black levels but from the increased brightness at your seating position due to the gain.

Compare it to a Firehawk and it's not even close. The Firehawk using the same test as I did with the HP would show as really dark grey in the light from the flashlight compared to the paper, whereas the image brightness from the projector would be more or less equal. Leading to a vastly superior contrast ratio.

The fact is that the 2.4 does not do much better than matte white in a ambient light environment, that was the first clue I had not received the 2.8 way back when they first started shipping 2.4
2.8 does a great job in ambient light if you are within the viewing cone. 2.4 just can not do as good a job since the micro beads are fewer and of mixed size. Contrast is not good, but the screen is bright and sports or news can be watched just fine. I search craigs list every day for large 2.8 HP that I can put away for a future fixed frame DIY project when I get a bigger house.

The only advantage that the 2.4 seems to have is a touch better blacks and less visible texture. The larger viewing cone might help some, but I'm not sure it really does. I do like the screen. But, for rejecting ambient lights, well, it doesn't. I have pot lights, 3 across front of screen ( like the effect it gives when light hits the screen when not using PJ, adds an element to the room and makes the nice screen standout). But with my older m2500 I never found a need to turn off every light so bad. I have a rope light under my riser....I don't turn it on any more, washes out screen, I have a night light that comes on and it points away from screen but still I have to unplug it or blacks are washed out. Now, don't get me wrong, with even the pot lights on and especially now with a 8700 Epson, even on the lowest ECO mode I can watch the thing with the lights on full. But any light on in the room whatsoever kills contrast and image quality. My m2500 never had this issue. Now with the lights off - the 8700 looks fantastic.

This thread is just way too confusing now that they've introduced an entirely different product and gave it the same name. I'm just very happy that I have two 2.8 screens and don't need to worry about how the 2.4 performs. All I can say is that my 2.8 does a remarkable job of rejecting ambient light from the sides. My old matte white screens would be entirely unwatchable with ambient light while my 2.8 HP screens are very watchable. Obviously there is contrast washout, but the rejection difference between matte white and the 2.8 are night and day to my eyes.

yeah I agree, this thread is a mess now. Not our fault, blame Dalite

I asked the mods to close this thread since 2.8 is gone and the review is no longer valid.. I guess there are so many 2.8s out there they figure it should be left open..

I asked the mods to close this thread since 2.8 is gone and the review is no longer valid.. I guess there are so many 2.8s out there they figure it should be left open..

Can't say I'd like to see that happen. Maybe DaLite will see the light and resurrect the 2.8 screen. And there are still a lot of them out there.

Just leave this open and start a new thread "High power 2.4 owners etc. topic"

What would be nice is if Dalite would send Tryg a new 2.4 and let him do a review comparing it to the old.. Na that would be counter productive for Dalite!

Both versions of HP reject light hitting it at an angle. The 2.8 version gain signature provides less gain than a typical matte white it at angles greater than approximately 17 degrees, the 2.4 at about 20 degrees (top of my head).

Here's my one minute extremely complex test (please don't try this at home) with a few photos taken with my theater door open allowing daylight from the adjacent room to hit the screen. The light is approaching the screen at an angle of about 31.5 degrees. The screen is a matte white with a gain of about 1. Excuse the tape job of the 2.8 (top) and 2.4 screens as I quickly pulled them off a board and didn't change the tape.

It's clear that when viewing the screens straight on and from the the location opposite from the light source both screens are reflecting less light to those locations than the matte white screen. One photo is taken from the light entry point showing the relative max gains of screens.

Seems like da-lite have a new High Contrast High Power screen which is More grey and has 2.4 gain. Dammit, just ordered the standard High Power 2.4 grrrrrr

Seems like da-lite have a new High Contrast High Power screen which is More grey and has 2.4 gain. Dammit, just ordered the standard High Power 2.4 grrrrrr

This is VERY interesting! Same gain as the (new) regular HP (2.4) but with an even narrower viewing cone (20 deg compared to 30).

We really do need for Tryg to put this through his evaluation procedure and let us all hear.

Now THIS is interesting! :)

new product?

new product?

Yes!

PS Sounds like it might be the old 2.8 HP with a gray over layer

Yes!

PS Sounds like it might be the old 2.8 HP with a gray over layer

Hmmm... I wonder what the advantage of a gray over-layer might be? Surely they are not going back to the dis-proven "gray makes better cr" marketing spiel.

Hmmm... I wonder what the advantage of a gray over-layer might be? Surely they are not going back to the dis-proven "gray makes better cr" marketing spiel.


Well, a gray screen substrate certainly can help in preserving contrast in non-batcave rooms, which means most rooms. (Not that there aren't trade offs of course).

Seems like da-lite have a new High Contrast High Power screen which is More grey and has 2.4 gain. Dammit, just ordered the standard High Power 2.4 grrrrrr

Well don't I just feel shafted by Dalite once again. I specifically asked their manager if a new screen was on the way as I would have returned my 2.4 if so...and here we are.

Seems like no one has yet seen this new HC/HP screen. Look forward to hearing from those that do see it.

A gray screen can improve ansi contrast in a reflection prone room (most all) similar to making the room darker by reducing the amount of light bouncing around the room and back to the screen. By reducing the viewing cone of the HP to 40 degrees, possibly due to the gray substrate, the screen will be more effective at killing light hitting the screen from reflection originating from outside of this cone than the regular HP. My photos above show the screens ability to reduce the effects of ambient light coming from outside the viewing cone, I suspect this attribute will be improved substantially with a grey HP likely similar to the difference between the 2.8 and 2.4 perhaps more. Any method employed which reduces ambient light effects on ansi contrast will improve image fidelity.

A white screen effects on light bouncing around a room is similar to a racquet ball, a gray screen more akin to a squash ball.

A white screen effects on light bouncing around a room is similar to a racquet ball, a gray screen more akin to a squash ball.

A gray screen turns the projector into a squash ball too. Just sayin'. :) This has been debated endlessly elsewhere. But I do believe a directional screen like the HP can help a lot. But gray just cuts everything equally. But what the heck do I know? Da-Lite seems to be making the stuff!

A gray screen turns the projector into a squash ball too. Just sayin'. :) This has been debated endlessly elsewhere. But I do believe a directional screen like the HP can help a lot. But gray just cuts everything equally.

Gray screens tend to be used to achieve two things:

1. Lowering of black levels. They do this, obviously, but just dimming the entire image vs a white screen, so you are lowering the bright parts too.
With consumer digital projectors having much higher contrast/lower black levels these days, (as well as not being terribly bright) most people feel gray screens are no longer necessary for this purpose.

2. Preserving better contrast than a white screen, in more challenging room conditions (e.g. some ambient light and/or reflective room). If you could project an image on to two screens in the same room, and have the image the same brightness on each (for the gray screen you'd open up the iris in order to get more light on the screen, on a projector that can do so)...then the gray screen is going to preserve contrast better.

That is because while you still would have the same brightness of image as the white screen, any other light reflected back to the screen in the room will be dimmed more by the gray screen than the white screen. Hence shadows and dark areas of the image will be less washed out, retaining better contrast.

So...they do indeed work to preserve contrast, when used to do so.

A gray screen turns the projector into a squash ball too. Just sayin'. :) This has been debated endlessly elsewhere. But I do believe a directional screen like the HP can help a lot. But gray just cuts everything equally. But what the heck do I know? Da-Lite seems to be making the stuff!

Think about the 2nd reflection then the third and fourth, a screen of less gain kills them quicker. Lets say we have one screen with a gain of .9 and another with a gain of .5 and we increase lumens to maintain equal screen brightness on the .5 gain screen, lets' see how each potentially kills off reflections bouncing around the room.

(.5 screen).... (.9 screen)
360 lumens.... 200 lumens

180...............180
90.................162
45.................146
22.5...............131

What exactly was everyone debating in that thread. Only on AVS could this be debated endlessly. The racquetball vs squash ball analogy is a decent representation, even if you drive a squash ball harder to equal the speed of a racquetball off the first wall, the ball will still die much quicker after that.

A gray screen turns the projector into a squash ball too. Just sayin'. :) This has been debated endlessly elsewhere. But I do believe a directional screen like the HP can help a lot. But gray just cuts everything equally. But what the heck do I know? Da-Lite seems to be making the stuff!

A gray screen with 2.4 gain is amazing. Will really look forward to hearing from some knowledgeable people how well it performs.

Gray screens tend to be used to achieve two things:

1. Lowering of black levels. They do this, obviously, but just dimming the entire image vs a white screen, so you are lowering the bright parts too.
With consumer digital projectors having much higher contrast/lower black levels these days, (as well as not being terribly bright) most people feel gray screens are no longer necessary for this purpose.

2. Preserving better contrast than a white screen, in more challenging room conditions (e.g. some ambient light and/or reflective room). If you could project an image on to two screens in the same room, and have the image the same brightness on each (for the gray screen you'd open up the iris in order to get more light on the screen, on a projector that can do so)...then the gray screen is going to preserve contrast better.

That is because while you still would have the same brightness of image as the white screen, any other light reflected back to the screen in the room will be dimmed more by the gray screen than the white screen. Hence shadows and dark areas of the image will be less washed out, retaining better contrast.

So...they do indeed work to preserve contrast, when used to do so.

But if the white HP and gray HP both have gain 2.4, won't they both produce the same brightness (ftL) coming off the screen?

This new gray HP screen really is one of the more exciting things to happen wrt screens in quite a while.

Where are you, Tryg?

This new gray HP screen really is one of the more exciting things to happen wrt screens in quite a while.

Where are you, Tryg?

Why do you need Tryg, his viewing it won't change how it performs. Order a sample and see how it works for you.

Why do you need Tryg, his viewing it won't change how it performs. Order a sample and see how it works for you.

I have the 2.8, sent the 2.4 back when it was sent to me as 2.8.... If we had a new pro style review for the current screen things for new buyers would be less confusing than reading this thread and finding out they can not buy what was reviewed..

http://www.da-lite.com/whats_hot/:D

The material is available immediately on Da-Lite’s electric, manual and fixed frame screen lines.
nice!

anyone got a price quote?

Why do you need Tryg, his viewing it won't change how it performs. Order a sample and see how it works for you.

Only because of his experience. If I do get a new screen (a larger one, to replace my 100x62 2.8HP), will certainly do as you say and order some samples to see how they look.

Think about the 2nd reflection then the third and fourth, a screen of less gain kills them quicker. Lets say we have one screen with a gain of .9 and another with a gain of .5 and we increase lumens to maintain equal screen brightness on the .5 gain screen, lets' see how each potentially kills off reflections bouncing around the room.

(.5 screen).... (.9 screen)
360 lumens.... 200 lumens

180...............180
90.................162
45.................146
22.5...............131

What exactly was everyone debating in that thread. Only on AVS could this be debated endlessly. The racquetball vs squash ball analogy is a decent representation, even if you drive a squash ball harder to equal the speed of a racquetball off the first wall, the ball will still die much quicker after that.

Thank you all for your constructive responses.

The debate centered around whether a passive screen could have a non-linear response to lumen level. But this is a different and intriguing scenario. I've been crunching numbers a bit and it seems the benefit happens in the FIRST reflection. It seems a less than unity screen in effect boosts the room's ANSI cr performance.

Say a room's ANSI performance is 400:1 (a figure I've heard thrown around). A .5 gain screen will give an effective room performance of 800:1 and a .9 gain screen will result in a 444:1 performance. Yes, 800:1 is better! It does take projector power, but that is available.

But if the white HP and gray HP both have gain 2.4, won't they both produce the same brightness (ftL) coming off the screen?

Yes, essentially. But when erkq said a gray screen just "cuts everything equally" that implied he was talking about gray screens in general. And gray screens can help preserve contrast over a white screen.

Keep in mind that if both the Da Lite gray and white screen end up with the same gain, the gray screen is going to need more optical gain applied to make it as bright. Typically the more gain applied to a screen substrate the more likely you are to see it's effects in the picture - sparklies/specklies etc.

Though Da Lite seems to have come up with a very nice coating for their HP screen. Hopefully screen texture will remain subtle even if they have to put more on the gray screen.

This new gray HP screen really is one of the more exciting things to happen wrt screens in quite a while.

Where are you, Tryg?


I saw the post that they now have a gray screen. Lets see how the response goes then in the fall I'll probably contact da-lite to work something up. It's been five years...maybe it's time to whip something new up ;)

Yes, essentially. But when erkq said a gray screen just "cuts everything equally" that implied he was talking about gray screens in general. And gray screens can help preserve contrast over a white screen.

Keep in mind that if both the Da Lite gray and white screen end up with the same gain, the gray screen is going to need more optical gain applied to make it as bright. Typically the more gain applied to a screen substrate the more likely you are to see it's effects in the picture - sparklies/specklies etc.

Though Da Lite seems to have come up with a very nice coating for their HP screen. Hopefully screen texture will remain subtle even if they have to put more on the gray screen.

Yes, this is a concern: if the HC HP has the same gain as the white HP, then the optical coating must be generating more gain for the HC than for the white screen and thus has a greater chance of giving artifacts (hotspotting, etc.)

Another concern is that Dalite quotes the viewing angle as 20 deg for the HC HP and 30 deg for the white HP. I thought they quoted 30 deg for the old 2.8 HP, but am not sure. But is does seem that the new HC HP has an even narrower viewing cone.

And finally if the gains of the HC and white HP screens are the same, isn't their white level and black level the same? and thus their CR the same? The only difference would thus be in wall reflections, less for the HC because of its narrower viewing cone.

Millerwill,

The HP doesn't hotspot due to its retroreflective nature. Though I imagine the new HC HP will have a real narrow viewing cone.

Regarding the use of a grey substrate. I'm trying to get my head around it, but as I see it it can't increase contrast, only lower the black level together with the white level. If shooting with the same projector on the same type of screen (the same directionality) but one with a white substrate and one with a grey - to me they would produce exactly the same contrast but the white one would be brighter.

Since brightness is a big asset in todays projector market (just read the JVC threads! :eek: - you pay BIG money for a high performance projector that also is bright), I don't really see what the grey substrate brings to the table? Well, unless you have a small screen...

Or am I missing something?

I am seeking a review sample of the High Contrast High Power from Da-Lite. We will see how it stacks up against the Black Diamond, which I reviewed here (http://www.videovantage.com/?p=937).

I have been hoping for some time that Da-Lite would take the High Power and use a darker substrate. Sometimes dreams come true.

I am actually hoping that the stated gain of 2.4 is an exaggeration, meaning that WOULD be the gain if this was a white screen. I think that if the actual gain is closer to 1 or 1.5 that this screen may really be something special.

Let's see.

I saw the post that they now have a gray screen. Lets see how the response goes then in the fall I'll probably contact da-lite to work something up. It's been five years...maybe it's time to whip something new up ;)

I was kind of hoping for a review of the 2.4 HP.. since the original 2.8 is only somewhat applicable to the current 2.4.
My bet is the "NEW" HCHP screen is just a 2.4 with some gray colorant added to the emulsifier that is now used to hold the micro beads on. I plan to order 2.4 and the new HC 2.4 samples to compare under a a microscope.

Millerwill,

The HP doesn't hotspot due to its retroreflective nature. Though I imagine the new HC HP will have a real narrow viewing cone.

Regarding the use of a grey substrate. I'm trying to get my head around it, but as I see it it can't increase contrast, only lower the black level together with the white level. If shooting with the same projector on the same type of screen (the same directionality) but one with a white substrate and one with a grey - to me they would produce exactly the same contrast but the white one would be brighter.

Since brightness is a big asset in todays projector market (just read the JVC threads! :eek: - you pay BIG money for a high performance projector that also is bright), I don't really see what the grey substrate brings to the table? Well, unless you have a small screen...

Or am I missing something?

I know that the normal HP's don't hotspot (I have a 2.8HP), but was just wondering whether the higher reflective surface of the HCHP2.4 might. I hope you're right, that it doesn't.

But I still having trouble getting my mind around the brightness and CR of the HC HP vs. the white HP. If they both have 2.4 gain, then they MUST give the same brightness (ftL) with the same pj; i.e., ftL = gain*lumens/(screen area), there's nothing in the eqn about whether the screen is white or gray. So it seems that the two screens would perform EXACTLY THE SAME except for the higher rejection of reflected light by the HC version because of its narrower viewing cone.

All empty speculation, of course, so it will be good to hear from people that see these. (I've also ordered samples of the white and HC 2.4HP.)

But I still having trouble getting my mind around the brightness and CR of the HC HP vs. the white HP. If they both have 2.4 gain, then they MUST give the same brightness (ftL) with the same pj; i.e., ftL = gain*lumens/(screen area), there's nothing in the eqn about whether the screen is white or gray. So it seems that the two screens would perform EXACTLY THE SAME except for the higher rejection of reflected light by the HC version because of its narrower viewing cone.


Did my discussion a few posts back (#3555) about how a lower gain screen effectively improves the contrast performance of the room make any sense?

Another concern is that Dalite quotes the viewing angle as 20 deg for the HC HP and 30 deg for the white HP. I thought they quoted 30 deg for the old 2.8 HP, but am not sure. But is does seem that the new HC HP has an even narrower viewing cone.

Which is quite predictable. The way gain works is by focusing light toward the desired viewing position. The more gain you apply, the more focusing of the light, the narrower the viewing angle. So even if the gray and white screen ultimately have the same gain rating, the gray screen needed more focusing of the light to get it to the same rating. Hence, narrower viewing angle.


And finally if the gains of the HC and white HP screens are the same, isn't their white level and black level the same? and thus their CR the same? The only difference would thus be in wall reflections, less for the HC because of its narrower viewing cone.

Yes. But since wall reflections can have effects on contrast, in a room with brighter walls the HC should do a better job preserving contrast.

Which is quite predictable. The way gain works is by focusing light toward the desired viewing position. The more gain you apply, the more focusing of the light, the narrower the viewing angle. So even if the gray and white screen ultimately have the same gain rating, the gray screen needed more focusing of the light to get it to the same rating. Hence, narrower viewing angle.

Yes. But since wall reflections can have effects on contrast, in a room with brighter walls the HC should do a better job preserving contrast.

Good point, Rich. So maybe the optical coating (or whatever) of the HCHP is actually not more 'reflective', and thus susceptible to hotspotting, but simply focuses the light more narrowly, to make up for the light lost by the gray substrate. Makes sense.

Since I have black fabric on my side walls and ceiling (out about 8 ft from the screen wall), I'm not very susceptible to reflections. So the white HP might still be my best choice if I do replace my present HP2.8 for a larger screen. But for white walls/ceiling the HCHP could be much better if the narrower cone is no problem.

Did my discussion a few posts back (#3555) about how a lower gain screen effectively improves the contrast performance of the room make any sense?

The point is that the HCHP is NOT a lower gain screen than the white HP, at least according to Dalite's info (though we'll wait to hear from ones who see it); they are both listed as 2.4 gain. The only way I see that they could differ is how the HCHP reduces wall reflections because of its narrower viewing cone, as RichH pointed out.

But again, DarinP has noted that white walls do NOT effect o/f CR, because when the light is 'off' there are no reflections, and when it is 'on' (100% IRE) the reflections are swamped by the light from the screen. Refections thus effect only the effective ANSI CR.

The point is that the HCHP is NOT a lower gain screen than the white HP, at least according to Dalite's info (though we'll wait to hear from ones who see it); they are both listed as 2.4 gain. The only way I see that they could differ is how the HCHP reduces wall reflections because of its narrower viewing cone, as RichH pointed out.

Yes, sorry... I got lost in an epiphany Hughman, et. al. provided for me. Does not apply in this case.


But again, DarinP has noted that white walls do NOT effect o/f CR, because when the light is 'off' there are no reflections, and when it is 'on' (100% IRE) the reflections are swamped by the light from the screen. Refections thus effect only the effective ANSI CR.

Yes, ANSI CR would be the issue.

The only way I see that they could differ is how the HCHP reduces wall reflections because of its narrower viewing cone, as RichH pointed out.

That how I see it as well for this screen. They've made this screen more directional which should reduce further the negative ansi contrast effects ambient light from the sides walls, ceiling, and floor. Back wall needs to be well treated though, as you know.

But again, DarinP has noted that white walls do NOT effect o/f CR, because when the light is 'off' there are no reflections, and when it is 'on' (100% IRE) the reflections are swamped by the light from the screen. Refections thus effect only the effective ANSI CR.

It was ansi contrast erkq and I were discussing.

I know that the normal HP's don't hotspot (I have a 2.8HP), but was just wondering whether the higher reflective surface of the HCHP2.4 might. I hope you're right, that it doesn't.

The new HP won't hotspot. It's pure physics.

Angular reflective screens with gain have aluminum particles that works like tiny diffuse mirrors. They reflect incoming light at an angle that is equal but opposite the incoming light. I.e. light falling in at a 15 degree angle from above will be reflected downward with a 15 degree angle (see illustration). Light that is hitting the sides of the screen will have a higher angle of incidence and will be directed outwards towards the walls to a higher degree compared to light hitting the center of the screen which will mostly be reflected straight back to the viewer. Thus the center will be brighter and hotspotting happens. The further back you can put the projector the smaller the difference in angle of incidence between the center and sides of the screen and the less hotspotting you will see.
http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/r/re/reflection_angles.svg.png

The HP however gets its gain from microscopic glass beads that collects incoming light and sends it back to the source. Light coming in at 15 degrees from above will be sent back 15 degrees upwards. And light hitting the far sides of the screen will be directed back towards the projector the same way that like light hitting the center of the screen - thus you get the same gain at the center and the sides and equal brightness all over the screen. No hotspotting.

http://www.huaweirm.cn/images/en-tu003.gif

So no matter how much beads they will add to the substrate to increase the gain and directionality it will not hotspot. Of this I'm sure. :)

The new HP won't hotspot. It's pure physics.

Angular reflective screens with gain have aluminum particles that works like tiny diffuse mirrors. They reflect incoming light at an angle that is equal but opposite the incoming light. I.e. light falling in at a 15 degree angle from above will be reflected downward with a 15 degree angle (see illustration). Light that is hitting the sides of the screen will have a higher angle of incidence and will be directed outwards towards the walls to a higher degree compared to light hitting the center of the screen which will mostly be reflected straight back to the viewer. Thus the center will be brighter and hotspotting happens. The further back you can put the projector the smaller the difference in angle of incidence between the center and sides of the screen and the less hotspotting you will see.
http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/r/re/reflection_angles.svg.png

The HP however gets its gain from microscopic glass beads that collects incoming light and sends it back to the source. Light coming in at 15 degrees from above will be sent back 15 degrees upwards. And light hitting the far sides of the screen will be directed back towards the projector the same way that like light hitting the center of the screen - thus you get the same gain at the center and the sides and equal brightness all over the screen. No hotspotting.

http://www.huaweirm.cn/images/en-tu003.gif

So no matter how much beads they will add to the substrate to increase the gain and directionality it will not hotspot. Of this I'm sure. :)

Thanks--and great illustration!

Just set up my new 88'' HP 2.4 with my panasonic AE4000 to replace my white wall and the difference is big. Much better contrast and just seems sharper and bolder. The black borders really add to frame the picture. V happy so far :)

Just set up my new 88'' HP 2.4 with my panasonic AE4000 to replace my white wall and the difference is big. Much better contrast and just seems sharper and bolder. The black borders really add to frame the picture. V happy so far :)
Nice to hear. An HP screen vs a white wall should be quite the improvement.

Is the HP only available in 2.35:1 as a special order. I only see it listed on their website in 16:9. Thanks.

Is the HP only available in 2.35:1 as a special order. I only see it listed on their website in 16:9. Thanks.

Call AVS and get a quote, you may be pleasantly surprised.

I am considering converting the manual pull down HP screen into a DIY fixed frame. How many inches off the height, width, or diagonal do you typically lose (if any) when making this conversion?

TIA.

I can't see you loosing anything but the positioning of the screen will be critical. What size are you looking at, what is the throw, and what is the sitting distance?

I am considering converting the manual pull down HP screen into a DIY fixed frame. How many inches off the height, width, or diagonal do you typically lose (if any) when making this conversion?

TIA.

I'm considering this too and I'm planning on getting a 106" HP for my 100" screen frame. It'll give me a little wiggle room when it comes to attaching the screen.

I can't see you loosing anything but the positioning of the screen will be critical. What size are you looking at, what is the throw, and what is the sitting distance?

I haven't bought the screen yet. My initial plan was to get a Model C CSR and mount it. My toddlers getting their hands, markers, or whatever else on the screen is a always real possibility. With that said, I wanted the option of converting it over to a fixed frame if any noticeable waves developed that are obvious during movie watching. I was wondering how much of the screen material I would lose from making this conversion.

Ideally, I would like the screen diagonal to be 126 inches, but I'm wondering if I should go a little bigger to a 133" screen to account for any losses. My throw distance is about 17 feet and sitting distance is about 15.5 feet.

I have a controlled light environment - dedicated HT with read wall and black ceiling. Do I really need HP screen? Will it be too bright to burn my (and my kid's) eyes? I envision most of time we are going to use it to watch movie with lights out so there should be no ambient light.

So far every "professional" AV store guy tells me I do not need anything more than 1.3 gain.

I have a controlled light environment - dedicated HT with read wall and black ceiling. Do I really need HP screen? Will it be too bright to burn my (and my kid's) eyes? I envision most of time we are going to use it to watch movie with lights out so there should be no ambient light.

So far every "professional" AV store guy tells me I do not need anything more than 1.3 gain.

What size screen do you have, and how many lumens does your pj produce? Use the expression ftL = lumens*(screen gain)/(screen area in sq ft) to calculate the # of ftL you expect. The canonical value that one aims for is ~ 15 ftL, though many people like it up to twice as much.

I plan to buy JVC RS40. room sise is 17x16 so I plan to use 119'' screen 16:9.

104''x58''=6032 sq ft

If my lumen is 10,000, then it is goign to be 24,000/6032=3.9. Looks too high to me if 1.5 is the norm.


What size screen do you have, and how many lumens does your pj produce? Use the expression ftL = lumens*(screen gain)/(screen area in sq ft) to calculate the # of ftL you expect. The canonical value that one aims for is ~ 15 ftL, though many people like it up to twice as much.

I plan to buy JVC RS40. room sise is 17x16 so I plan to use 119'' screen 16:9.

104''x58''=6032 sq ft

If my lumen is 10,000, then it is goign to be 24,000/6032=3.9. Looks too high to me if 1.5 is the norm.

Lumen is 800 to 900... maybe. After lamp dimming and a position greater than min throw and iris stopped down some to get more cr, depend on 700 or so. Maybe.

I plan to buy JVC RS40. room sise is 17x16 so I plan to use 119'' screen 16:9.

104''x58''=6032 sq ft

If my lumen is 10,000, then it is goign to be 24,000/6032=3.9. Looks too high to me if 1.5 is the norm.

Your screen size is 104x58/144 = ~42 sq ft, and let's say 500 lumens after some dimming. So if you could position the pj to take full advantage of the HP's gain, you would have 500*2.4/42 = 29 ftL, i.e., very bright. With 1.3 gain you would have ~ 15 ftL, still nice.

With the HP screen you would be able to step down the RS40's iris to get whatever brightness you like, and then have something 'in the bank' when the pj's lamp dims even further.

sorry I somehow read as sq inch - this makes sense. I can always reduce the brightness from the pj...

hey all, i just read pretty much all of this thread over the last few days, and have a couple questions...

I am looking at getting a 130" diagonal 2.35 screen, and want to get either a JVC X3 or Sony VW90. The problem is, the projector HAS to be ceiling mounted. I can hang the lens center as low as 6.5 feet.

My ceiling is white, and i cannot paint it. Will the HP screen wash out with my white ceiling? i have used the calculator for this screen, and my main seat will get 1.5 gain, and my side seats approx 1.2-1.3 gain, which is a lot less then 2.4, but still not bad. Should i consider another screen? i was VERY interested in the black diamond iii 1.4 or 2.7 gain screen, but a lot of people complain about the texture/sparklies. i want a higher gain screen so i can watch 3d. The top of my screen will be a foot lower than the ceiling.

I can mount the projector any distance from the screen, so i was hoping to go fairly close for max gain. I will be using the zoom method for 2.35 content, and so the screen will be a 103" 16x9 image when zoomed for 16x9 content.

Thanks

A lot of us that are in the market for a high gain screen, are looking at this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1267206 . At the moment, very few details are known about the Microlite screen including the price as well as sceen size.

hey all, i just read pretty much all of this thread over the last few days, and have a couple questions...

I am looking at getting a 130" diagonal 2.35 screen, and want to get either a JVC X3 or Sony VW90. The problem is, the projector HAS to be ceiling mounted. I can hang the lens center as low as 6.5 feet.

My ceiling is white, and i cannot paint it. Will the HP screen wash out with my white ceiling? i have used the calculator for this screen, and my main seat will get 1.5 gain, and my side seats approx 1.2-1.3 gain, which is a lot less then 2.4, but still not bad. Should i consider another screen? i was VERY interested in the black diamond iii 1.4 or 2.7 gain screen, but a lot of people complain about the texture/sparklies. i want a higher gain screen so i can watch 3d. The top of my screen will be a foot lower than the ceiling.

I can mount the projector any distance from the screen, so i was hoping to go fairly close for max gain. I will be using the zoom method for 2.35 content, and so the screen will be a 103" 16x9 image when zoomed for 16x9 content.

Thanks

I'm in your boat (ceiling mounted, light walls) and got the HP 2.4 145" diagonal.

You can opt for the HCHP ( grey ) if worried about wash out from the walls.

Arrives Friday, and I will put it up in that night. Review after a few hours of viewing.

Do you have an adjustable pole for your ceiling mount? I just ordered one and will get max gain of ~ 1.8 when I drop it lower.

I know I am not maxing the screens gain with out a retro reflective set up but I achieve 16-17 lumens with this set up (empirically)

With the test sample I have it looks incredible and that was against the Stewart ultramatte 1.5 and 2.0 gain, and Stewart studiotek 1.3 and firehawk (grey)

After pricing from AV science it was a no brainer, plus I won't get hot spotting,etc from an angular reflective screen.

congrads on your new purchase. I'm sure you'll like it.

I'm in your boat (ceiling mounted, light walls) and got the HP 2.4 145" diagonal.

You can opt for the HCHP ( grey ) if worried about wash out from the walls.

Arrives Friday, and I will put it up in that night. Review after a few hours of viewing.

Do you have an adjustable pole for your ceiling mount? I just ordered one and will get max gain of ~ 1.8 when I drop it lower.

I know I am not maxing the screens gain with out a retro reflective set up but I achieve 16-17 lumens with this set up (empirically)

With the test sample I have it looks incredible and that was against the Stewart ultramatte 1.5 and 2.0 gain, and Stewart studiotek 1.3 and firehawk (grey)

After pricing from AV science it was a no brainer, plus I won't get hot spotting,etc from an angular reflective screen.

Definitely interested to hear how this screen works out for you.what height is the center of your projector lens? How wide is your seating area?

Definitely interested to hear how this screen works out for you.what height is the center of your projector lens? How wide is your seating area?

Right now I'm set with my lens center 95" from the floor but with the new pole I van drop it 24" more.

I have a 7 foot wide seating area 20 feet from screen and projector lens center is 22 feet from the screen.

anyone setup a HP in scope using a panasonic ae4000 projector?

Definitely interested to hear how this screen works out for you.what height is the center of your projector lens? How wide is your seating area?

Image and quality are spectacular even with ceiling mounted set up.

I have slight barrel distortion or trapezoid image due to my projector keystoneing the image.

I'll square my projector then use the shif and zoom and post some pics.

Any tips for squaring projector on the horizontal and vertical plane?

Man!!! I am so bummed!

Not only did Da-lite change the HP from 2.8 to 2.4 but they raised their prices on all the manual Model B's and C's that used to be so cheap to build DIY fixed screens. I could build a 106" diag for less than 3 Franklins now its costing twice that much.

I was thinking about building a 120" 2.35:1 screen (110" wide) and I couldn't believe how much the prices went up for both the old B/C and even the fabric alone almost tripled in price.

I guess they figured out that DIY trick.

I'm not sure if this is obvioius, or has been reported in this thread or another, but I had an amazing discovery today regarding my HP screen.

I've had the screen for about 3 1/2 years, and recently I noticed that there seemed to be some streaky lighter patches on it in certain scenes, particularly with blue sky or other very white scenes. I was worrying that the screen was deteriorating, but after further investigation, the screen appeared to have a very, very light coating of dust, which you could not really see with the naked eye under normal light. The streaks or patches seemed to be where the dust was lighter or perhaps had been rubbed off or something.

I contacted Da-Lite regarding how to clean a screen that had collected some dust, and they told me to use distilled water with a clean white cloth and to dry with a clean white cloth. So my wife and I cleaned it carefully today, and the streaks and patches are now gone. The amazing discovery is that the brightness of the screen and the perceived contrast increased noticeably. The screen is in a dedicated home theater room, typically used only a couple of times a week, and is not a basement or is not particularly dusty. Thus, I don't consider the environment to be particularly unusual. If anything, it might be less prone to dust than a lot of other rooms. But the effect of cleaning the screen of what little dust had collected on the screen was pretty astounding to me.

It kind of makes sense that a higher gain screen would be impacted more by dust than a lower gain screen. I mean, if the screen is relfecting light to a great extent, it makes sense (to me anyway) that even a little dust couuld really impact the amount of light reflected. In any event, whatever the technical explanation might be, this made it clear to me that regular dusting or cleaning of a high power screen is a good idea. I intend to clean mine once a year or so, if necessary.

I apologize if this has already been disussed before, but I just wanted to pass it along in case anyone else has a HP screen that has collected a little dust on it. Again, the difference was quite striking.

Quick question: does Da Lite make custom sizes of countour high power? I need a 99 inches wide cinemascope....

Quick question: does Da Lite make custom sizes of countour high power? I need a 99 inches wide cinemascope....

I think all their screens are custom. The listed sizes are just there to judge price vs. size.

6 months old and I am seeing uneven aging on the HP. 122" wide scope, the top horizontal third of the screen has now become darker than the rest of the screen, it is so annoying.

Believe it or not I have the worst luck with Da Lite 3 screens since February

Screen 1 damaged in shipping, fiberglass

Screen 2 bad motor, excessive edge curling

Screen 3 horizontal top third of the screen aging unevenly.

I am at a loss of words for the amount of time spent on warranty replacements. I can't imagine this is normal.

Gotcha, this might sound obvious but have you tried cleaning your screen with distilled water? A few of us have experienced the darker horizontal lines and have been able to get rid of it completely with a good cleaning.

Gotcha, this might sound obvious but have you tried cleaning your screen with distilled water? A few of us have experienced the darker horizontal lines and have been able to get rid of it completely with a good cleaning.

I have not, Da Lite believes the uneven aging is due to the curing process and they want to send out a new roller and screen material.

I want to be clear this is the entire top 1/3 of the screen horizontally, not just a few lines. Has anyone else seen this?

I have not, Da Lite believes the uneven aging is due to the curing process and they want to send out a new roller and screen material.

I want to be clear this is the entire top 1/3 of the screen horizontally, not just a few lines. Has anyone else seen this?

I think there was another post a few months ago with the same type of complaint about a 2.4 HP screen that was only a few weeks/months old. You may want to spend some time searching for that post and contact the person to see what the outcome was. I am not sure if it was in this thread or in a thread of it's own.. thinking it was stand alone...
Douglas Probst

I have not, Da Lite believes the uneven aging is due to the curing process and they want to send out a new roller and screen material.

I want to be clear this is the entire top 1/3 of the screen horizontally, not just a few lines. Has anyone else seen this?

Well I had approx 1/5 of the top of my screen darker. Not lines, the entire screen area. It could be especially seen on a white projected image. I first noticed it watching hockey. Taking a flash photograph clearly showed it as well.

I initially thought it was the screen damaged maybe by the rollers as mine is a manual pulldown. Another poster suggested cleaning it.

After a careful cleaning the dark area was completely gone.

I have just received my brand new high power screen but it does seem to me what I have received is not high power even though on the box it says so!

The screen I have received has jut a plastic fabric painted with a glossy white paint. There is nothing on the fabric other than the paint. This is different from the older 2.8 version I used to have a couple of years ago. It had that tiny particles glued into the fabric. It did have a rather rough and coarse surface. My Panoview Graywolf II screen material also has that coarse surface. These must be the glass beads glued to the surface. The new High Power screen I have received doesn't have that surface. Moreover, it does not have the bright punchy image I remember from memory my previous high power used to have.

I am wondering if this is about the new 2.4 version or, is it possible they have mistakenly put another type of screen in the box? This is not matte white I think. Maybe this is a video spectra screen?

Any idea where the problem could be?

Thanks in advance.

I have just received my brand new high power screen but it does seem to me what I have received is not high power even though on the box it says so!


Take a flash picture of the screen next to a white wall and it will be very obvious. The high power fabric will look like it's glowing in comparison.

Also, the high power screens come with a little tool to help stretch the fabric onto the snap studs because the fabric is a lot less stretchy than other fabrics and it's very difficult to snap the screen on without using the tool.

--
Steve

Flash picture is one of the best ways to tell. You can hang a piece of printer paper on the screen and the flash should make the screen light up and paper look much darker. This photo and description can help identify the HP 2.4 but was originally to figure out if you got 2.4 or the now discontinued 2.8.
http://96.227.248.64:999/dalitehp/photos/Texture.html

Hello,
This is the manual pull down version. I guess it is not supposed to have the little tool you mention.

Thanks, Ramin

Take a flash picture of the screen next to a white wall and it will be very obvious. The high power fabric will look like it's glowing in comparison.

Also, the high power screens come with a little tool to help stretch the fabric onto the snap studs because the fabric is a lot less stretchy than other fabrics and it's very difficult to snap the screen on without using the tool.

--
Steve

So I understand the new one is quite different though from the sixth picture I could still infer they are essentially of the same texture though the new version has finer beads, right?
The one I have got does not seem having any beads on it. It looks like just a painted screen fabric.



Flash picture is one of the best ways to tell. You can hang a piece of printer paper on the screen and the flash should make the screen light up and paper look much darker. This photo and description can help identify the HP 2.4 but was originally to figure out if you got 2.4 or the now discontinued 2.8.
http://96.227.248.64:999/dalitehp/photos/Texture.html

Sounds like someone screwed up, time to call the people you purchased it from.

Steve,you can put a light behind you and walk close to the axis of that and see the increase in gain as your eyes get close. There should be an immediate increase in gain.

The original 2.8 is smooth to the touch as well as the 2.4. There are big particle glass screens that are not washable and rough to the touch, but the 7 micron sized 2.8 gain was a completlely different animal and washable. You must have been mistaken here.

Regards
David

Regards
David

New material has sort of a grid pattern to it. Old is smooth.

Hello,
This is the manual pull down version. I guess it is not supposed to have the little tool you mention.

Right, I forgot there are other types of screens :) Plus it would still be possible they included the right tool but the wrong screen fabric.

Here are some pictures I took when Da-lite sent me samples. The first one shows what they look like with light coming from the side, and the second one was taken with a flash, showing the magic of the high power fabric.

http://www.datamagic.com/da-lite/off-angle.jpg

http://www.datamagic.com/da-lite/on-angle.jpg

Well I had approx 1/5 of the top of my screen darker. Not lines, the entire screen area. It could be especially seen on a white projected image. I first noticed it watching hockey. Taking a flash photograph clearly showed it as well.

I initially thought it was the screen damaged maybe by the rollers as mine is a manual pulldown. Another poster suggested cleaning it.

After a careful cleaning the dark area was completely gone.

How did you clean it?

How did you clean it?

The official cleaning process can be found on the Dalite website.

I used a clean, white microfiber cloth that I dampened with the distilled water. I then lightly rubbed the screen going in one direction from the top - down. I did this process in "rows" all the way across the screen surface.

I then let it dry for about 2 hours and repeated this process twice more focusing more on the darkened area.

After that the screen looked brand new. The dark area was completely gone.

The main thing to remember is you want to cloth damp enough to clean but not soaked so water is dripping off it. Also don't use a lot of force when wiping.

Good luck.

Quick question...

I have read that the High Power material is about the best to get for a manual screen, as apparently it doesn't warp over time like other materials... it apparently keeps its shape better. Is this true?

Quick question...

I have read that the High Power material is about the best to get for a manual screen, as apparently it doesn't warp over time like other materials... it apparently keeps its shape better. Is this true?

Warp? You mean waves? It does often have waves but they are usually not visible. There are more important things to consider when selecting a High Power. For example, will it work in your setup? The geometry is pretty restrictive, eliminating many fixed offset DLP's from consideration, for example.

Quick question...

I have read that the High Power material is about the best to get for a manual screen, as apparently it doesn't warp over time like other materials... it apparently keeps its shape better. Is this true?

Yes and no.
There are 2 ways a screen wrinkles.. well probably more...
But for this discussion lets stick with 2.
First the screen material will stretch, the HP does not stretch so we are good there.
Second the roller will sag , the bigger the screen the longer the roller and the likely it is to sag.

In this case, the HP is better than most, the waves are not as likely to be seen when viewing content do to the nature of the micro beads. Under certain lighting you will see them but a lot less than other types of screens.

I am also not sure how well this holds true with the current HP2.4 since the fabric is not exactly the same as the 2.8.

Then the other type of wave is where they don't put the fabric on the roller straight to start with and it shows up with wave..

Warp? You mean waves? It does often have waves but they are usually not visible. There are more important things to consider when selecting a High Power. For example, will it work in your setup? The geometry is pretty restrictive, eliminating many fixed offset DLP's from consideration, for example.

I have a couple of samples from dalite, and even with the projector mounted about 6'6"(sony HW30ES), the samples are brighter than my current 1.4 gain black diamond screen when seated. Also, i like the retroreflective screen, as i'd imagine it would have less light scatter than a regular angular reflective screen.

I have a couple of samples from dalite, and even with the projector mounted about 6'6"(sony HW30ES), the samples are brighter than my current 1.4 gain black diamond screen when seated. Also, i like the retroreflective screen, as i'd imagine it would have less light scatter than a regular angular reflective screen.

Well there you go! You've done the homework. Sorry, it just sounded like the warping was your primary concern.

BTW, airscapes response is a good one.

so the pulldown High power screens do get waves? how noticeable would they be? i'm getting a fairly big screen, around 125" 16x9.

so the pulldown High power screens do get waves? how noticeable would they be? i'm getting a fairly big screen, around 125" 16x9.You won't see the wrinkles or waves since it will reflect the light back to the source. What you'll see is the slight distortion due to the wave.

Example: Open up a book. Put your hands on either side of the page and push inward making a "hump" in the middle of the page. See how the words look? That's what a panning shot on the screen will reveal. How bad it is simply depends on how bad the wave it.

Great review!
http://www.************/jie1.jpg
http://www.************/jie2.jpg
http://www.************/jie3.jpg

It took a few days but I finally read through the entire thread. It was epic, filled with fantastic stories of cones of light, betrayal, a cat speaker, and fly poop!

I was most interested to hear what people thought about black levels, as that was a concern of mine. I'm now satisfied that I won't have anything to worry about. While technically the black level is raised, it's not a problem in the big picture. Here's my understanding:

Let's say you have a projector which measures:
white: 10 fL
black: 1 fL

This projector has a dismal contrast ratio of 10:1.

Now on a 2.0 gain screen, it measures:
white: 20 fL
black: 2 fL

Is this correct? (I think some people, when they hear high gain screens raises both blacks and whites equally think that would mean 20 fL white to 10 fL black, which would certainly mean a washed out image.)

This preserves the contrast ratio of 10:1, but the perceived contrast (actual contrast?) has greatly expanded. While the black level has raised, it is now 18 fL dimmer than white, rather than just 9. In a high contrast image, the 2.0 gain screen actually shows more contrast (though the ratio is the same), and the black would probably appear blacker.

How does that sound?

So screen 4 looks good :) to summarize, top portion across the screen developed a darker horizontal area. Some suggested cleaning, I opted on warranty replacement and the new screen material was delivered on the roller in a crate. Had to swap the motor in, deal with some minor creases, which I am sure will work itself out, otherwise this looks good so far. I pressed for an answer on what I could expect being different here, and this is what I was told:

The black drop at the top of the replacement has a different formulation than the black drop on the previous screen which should not display banding like you experienced. We are working to alleviate this potential problem going forward by changing the drop material.

Airion >>> That is my exact understanding as well and keep in mind the human vision sensitivity to brightness; When displaying a full black image onscreen from a projector with poor contrast ratio the "black" will look more like dark grey but displaying an image with areas of black and white suddenly that "black" looks a lot more like you expect it to look because of your vision acquiring areas of white highligts at the same time, which "fools" your vision into seeing a darker "black".
You can do your own test at home by using a test dvd/blu-ray disc displaying a full black pattern followed by an ANSI pattern, which consists of 16 squares of adjacent black/white patterns.

Airion >>> That is my exact understanding as well and keep in mind the human vision sensitivity to brightness; When displaying a full black image onscreen from a projector with poor contrast ratio the "black" will look more like dark grey but displaying an image with areas of black and white suddenly that "black" looks a lot more like you expect it to look because of your vision acquiring areas of white highligts at the same time, which "fools" your vision into seeing a darker "black".
You can do your own test at home by using a test dvd/blu-ray disc displaying a full black pattern followed by an ANSI pattern, which consists of 16 squares of adjacent black/white patterns.

this is mostly true. Although there are some of us that can't be "fooled". I can see bad blacks period. It doesn't matter if it's a solid black screen, or a mix of bright and dark, if there are bad blacks - I can see it regardless. This is why I was never happy with the Epson 8350 - a bright PJ with bad blacks.

I'm not sure if "fooled" is the right word. It's my understanding that the human eye, given the human iris, can only see a limited range of contrast at a single time. This is why CRTs look good despite low ANSI contrast due to reflections in the glass. If there is an image with very bright whites and even poor blacks, your eyes adjust to the whites, letting in less light. The whites are dimmed to a comfortable level and the blacks are dimmed to pure black in your eyes.

Perhaps the Epson 8350 suffered from poor ANSI contrast, elevating the blacks in a bright image? Was this a problem with the projector or a problem only when viewing it on a high gain screen?

Any users of Da-Lite high power 2.8 gain screen can sharing some snapshots to show its performance under ambient light?

Any users of Da-Lite high power 2.8 gain screen can sharing some snapshots to show its performance under ambient light?

Unfortunately there wouldn't be much point. The 2.8 fabric has been discontinued for a while now and the 2.4 replacement is manufactured differently. I can tell you from first hand experience that 2.8 was better in this area. The main reason was it is brighter in the sweet spot. Even with the 2.8, if I leave the viewing cone, the image quality will be that of a matte white screen with or without light hiting the screen.

Sorry if this info is in here somewhere - is there a "best way" to DIY a fixed screen using HP material from my 92" model C? Looking to do an 80" wide 2.35:1.

Thanks!

Do anyone know the lowest gain of this screen can be when you move out of the viewing cone? I'm using a 2.4 HP

Do anyone know the lowest gain of this screen can be when you move out of the viewing cone? I'm using a 2.4 HP

See the graph in the attachment which shows the gain vs angle for the old 2.8 and new 2.4 HiPower. It shows that the gain of the 2.4 has fallen to ~ 1.5 by 15 deg off axis, and to ~ 1.0 at 45 deg.

Does anyone know if anyone has any left over stock of model C screens with the 2.8 material?

Also, does the 2.4 material hold up ok when it comes to waves? I have very light waves in my 2.8 material but it's never seen in the pic. This screen is fantastic! I had been planning on getting a larger screen some time back and I really wish I would have bought the bigger screen earlier! :(

Here is a post I made in another thread, but it is probably more relevant to put it here. Excuse the multiple post, but I think it may be useful for persons interested in an HP screen.


I had a 110x62 HP2.8 for ~ 4 yrs and liked it very much, but decided about 8-9 months ago that I wanted a larger screen (it does grow on one, doesn't it!); by the time I was ready the HP2.8 was no longer available. I got samples of the new HP2.4 and the HC HP2.4, and put them up along side old samples I had of the HP2.8 (by this time I had sold the old screen and was just showing on the wall).

Yes, the HP2.8 is brighter head-on than the HP2.4, but I actually liked the new HP2.4 better, primarily because the pic seemed smoother. I never had any complaints about this with my old HP2.8, but seeing the new one I felt it was better. The HC HP2.4 had such a narrow viewing angle that the sides of where my new large screen (144x72) would be were noticeably darker than the center. With the regular HP2.4 the brightness was quite uniform over the whole screen.

When at CEDIA recently I went by the Dalite booth to tell them how much I liked the new HP2.4 material, and the guy I talked to said that they had incorporated some of the JPK Affinity features in it, presumably accounting for my perception of the smoother pic.

I know many here lament the disappearance of the old HP2.8 material, and that was certainly my initial reaction because I had liked my old screen so much. But I now believe that the new material is actually an improvement, even though a bit less gain.

Out of the 8 seats in my setup using the 6" square Dalite sent me months back I only have one seat where the picture looks as bright or possibly brighter. In the remaining 7 seats that I have the brightness difference is quite noticeable. :(

xb
Thats the down side of having so much gain. But in its sweet spot it smokes all the expensive wide angle screens in their sweet spot. They become down right boring in comparison and less money to boot!
But its another matter entirely if you want the whole family or a group of friends to get the same picture equally. In that case the wide cone is a benefit.
Pick your poison!

regards
David

If I didn't have the 2.8 gain I'd get the 2.4 in a heartbeat. I shoulda woulda coulda bought the bigger screen some time back when I had the chance. I'll probably wait and see how bright the RS45 is. If it's very bright then the 2.4 gain might work.

If I didn't have the 2.8 gain I'd get the 2.4 in a heartbeat. I shoulda woulda coulda bought the bigger screen some time back when I had the chance. I'll probably wait and see how bright the RS45 is. If it's very bright then the 2.4 gain might work.

My 144x72 HP2.4 is quite bright enough for me with a RS20 with ~ 2000 hrs on the lamp. (In 16x9 config is is 128x72,)

Out of the 8 seats in my setup using the 6" square Dalite sent me months back I only have one seat where the picture looks as bright or possibly brighter. In the remaining 7 seats that I have the brightness difference is quite noticeable. :(

Having experimented with the HP 2.4 samples, the dropoff seems to be more noticeable with smaller samples. I first got a 6" sample and then a 12" sample, and now I have a 122x66" HP screen now. The dropoff was less noticeable with each size increase.

My 144x72 HP2.4 is quite bright enough for me with a RS20 with ~ 2000 hrs on the lamp. (In 16x9 config is is 128x72,)

I will probably wait until I get the RS45 and see how much brighter it is over my RS2 clone. I didn't think I'd be saying this but I am interested in 3D and the brightness matters so I'll see how that goes as well. If I can spare a little then I may go for the 2.4.

Having experimented with the HP 2.4 samples, the dropoff seems to be more noticeable with smaller samples. I first got a 6" sample and then a 12" sample, and now I have a 122x66" HP screen now. The dropoff was less noticeable with each size increase.

I was thinking about a calling and getting a 12" sample as the 6" sample really isn't enough. Now if only they would give my a 119" sample. :D

I was thinking about a calling and getting a 12" sample as the 6" sample really isn't enough. Now if only they would give my a 119" sample. :D

Think about it this way.
If you do not have the projector in the optimum place or some of your seating is out of the viewing cone, you will get the same image as you do with a white screen that has a gain of 1.
What's to loose? You sit in the captain's seat which should be directly under the projector shooting just over your head, unless you give it up for an honored guest! You will always have a great picture and the seats next to you will also have a great picture. No one that I know of has ever complained about the full size screen looking darker on one side that then other from any seat. In fact the opposite is true, they say it has a very uniform brightness. Unfortunately I have a very small screen so my personal experience is not very useful when talking about a very large screen. You should get the bigger samples as you say and see if that helps any in your decision.

I am really not looking forward to the day i want to upgrade my 2.35:1 highpower to something bigger.

I have a 94inch 16:9 in behind, and a second one just about the same size with masking on top and bottom da-lite did for me that drops down in front.

I had to go with this because my projector had no zoom method so calculations had to be done to work out the appropriate size.

Now looking at projectors I had hoped to buy one with a zoom method, so i could get a bigger picture for 2:35 and 2:40 movies and just zoom in manually, but now the screens wont match. They will have different gain. If i want to go bigger i would have the masked screen with less gain and for 16:9 content higher gain and brighter picture.

Or I buy a new 16:9 as well in the 2.4 but that would put a hole in my pocket, dalite charges crazy prices for the electric screens.

Hi,
I'm running power in the attic this weekend for an electric hipower screen, and was wondering which side of the screen Dalite puts the power and 12v trigger. I called VA and PP and both are closed. The only pic I can find is a Designer Cinema Electrol and it's power is on the left, so this is how I have it for now. The Sheetrock guys come Tues so someone pls let me know if I need power on the other side. Thanks.

Hi,
I'm running power in the attic this weekend for an electric hipower screen, and was wondering which side of the screen Dalite puts the power and 12v trigger. I called VA and PP and both are closed. The only pic I can find is a Designer Cinema Electrol and it's power is on the left, so this is how I have it for now. The Sheetrock guys come Tues so someone pls let me know if I need power on the other side. Thanks.

Go to the dalite website, choose the model screen you have and on the right and side of the page you will see pdf files including installation .. one of those pdfs will show you what you need to know

I think I may have a problem with my screen.

I just took delivery on a Cinema Contour screen and I'm assembling the frame now. However, none of the screw holes are matching up properly.

I know that the instructions say that they won't line up until all fasteners are attached, but the frame is together all the way and they're still mismatched.

Any ideas? Is there something I'm missing?

I think you're supposed to match up the holes and put in the screws (not tight) and then when all the screws are in you can tighten them. Then look at the frame and it should look fine.

Also note that the 4 pieces are labeled 'top', 'bottom', 'left', and 'right', and the holds only line up correctly if you have these correctly positioned. (I think I once starting putting one of my HP's together and had the top and bottom switched.)

Yeah, you're right. I tried again last night and the screws went in far enough. I did this for all four corners and then tightened them. I just assumed that they would all line up after the screen was pieced together.

But all is fine now and the screen is fully assembled.

good to hear KMR. We were about to have Da Lite just send you another one :)

Sorry... I have another 'issue'.

I've noticed during scenes of solid color--like a shot of the sky, or many scenes in an animated movie, where larges areas of solid color are prevalent--I can see the screen's texture. It's very distracting. Has anyone else noticed this sort of thing?

I just got my new Cinema Contour with High Power put together and on the wall. Wow, those snaps are a bitch... Anyway, I noticed a part of the screen that isn't stretched out like the rest - it's like there's too much fabric and it makes a bubble. I was just wondering if this is normal/acceptable? Will it get worse over time since it's not properly stretched? It doesn't appear to be too noticeable from the front, but I haven't yet set up my projector.

Any opinions?

Hopefully my attachment works. It's not the best picture since it's from an iPhone, but it'll get the point across.

I just got my new Cinema Contour with High Power put together and on the wall. Wow, those snaps are a bitch... Anyway, I noticed a part of the screen that isn't stretched out like the rest - it's like there's too much fabric and it makes a bubble. I was just wondering if this is normal/acceptable? Will it get worse over time since it's not properly stretched? It doesn't appear to be too noticeable from the front, but I haven't yet set up my projector.

Any opinions?

Hopefully my attachment works. It's not the best picture since it's from an iPhone, but it'll get the point across.

That's not normal. I don't recall, but I think there's a recommended sequence to snap the screen in to avoid puckering. Perhaps someone else here knows or you can call Da Lite. Maybe try snapping the center points and then working out to the corners, doing opposing sides as you go...

I wouldn't leave it like that.

All the snaps are snapped - you think undoing them would make a difference? You'd think that once it's completely snapped it'd be tight regardless of which order they were used.

The directions said to start with the 4 corners (which I did) and then do the rest. Hmmm... Anyone else have suggestions as to how I can remedy this? Or do I have a defective screen?

All the snaps are snapped - you think undoing them would make a difference? You'd think that once it's completely snapped it'd be tight regardless of which order they were used.

The directions said to start with the 4 corners (which I did) and then do the rest. Hmmm... Anyone else have suggestions as to how I can remedy this? Or do I have a defective screen?

If you're following the directions, I would contact your reseller or DaLite - that appears substantial enough that it would effect image quality. If it doesn't, then its up to you if it bothers you or not...

Thanks thrang! I guess I'll contact AVS later today.

To update, Mike at AVS was very helpful. DaLite sent a replacement out overnight shipping and the new screen is tight as a drum.

The more I've been watching the screen, I've been noticing some darker horizontal lines that show up during bright scenes. It's especially evident when there's a camera pan or movement on a bright scene. The most noticeable one is about a third of the way down the screen - it spans from left-right but the left side is more pronounced. There are others toward the bottom of the screen as well, but those aren't as noticeable.

Could there just be lines of dirt on my screen? I'm nervous to try and clean the screen because I worry about causing streaking or other more annoying issues. Plus, why would a new screen from the factory come dirty?

I'm getting frustrated with these issues I've been having with the HP. DaLite was really helpful with the first problem, but at this point I'm hesitant to complain again as I may just be seen as a really picky customer... Plus, given my first experience, I'm nervous that any replacement with have other more glaring issues. I've tried to take pictures of what I'm seeing, but it wasn't working out so well with my cellphone camera.

OK, I took a picture with a normal camera+flash in a dark room, projector off. Hopefully this picture can better describe what I'm seeing (at least in the most pronounced location). Again, it's more noticeable with movement on the screen.

Had anyone tried the epson 5010 with the hp?

NNate,

I have one of those on my HP Model C pull-down. It sits a bit lower than yours.

This was after I went though 4 (count em, 4) other HP screens from Da-Lite. One was the new (2.4) and others had a series of tightly aligned vertical stripes. I settled on this one as I was super tired of waiting and suffering the looks from my wife while swapping these on the wall for testing (133" diag), by myself!

It is quite evident/annoying on bright scenes, but I'll live. Sooo many other things to obsess over, know what I mean? Sorry if this is no help, but I wanted to express that this is not an obscure case.

Thanks for the response! I must say that's disheartening! But at least I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this. You said that one was the new 2.4 - the others were the 2.8? They all had striping of some kind - whether vertical or horizontal?

I called DaLite today and spoke with a representative. He made it sound like this was something he hadn't heard of before. I even sent over the picture I posted here after getting off the phone, but have yet to hear back about that. He told me they could send me a new screen and even offered to swap for another material (not something I want to do). I definitely can't complain about the support as it's been top-notch from both DaLite and AVS, but the QC problems are another thing entirely. I guess I have to mull over my choices.

Has anyone else experienced this with the 2.4 material?

I know this might be a redundant question but is there really no plan on bringing back the classic high power of 2.8 gain? I have a 10 foot wide 2.35 130 inch diagonal that I'm absolutely in love with. I was thinking I'd go the biggest size they had without a seam.

Oh and one question- how bad do seams look like on Da-Lite projector screens? If I wanted to go 200 inches :D

Hello all, I'm a long-time owner of a Model B 92" 16:9 High Power screen (original 2.8 gain). I just got a new projector (Epson 8350, though I'm still debating whether I'll keep it or trade it for a different make/model), and I'm planning on moving up to a bigger screen. I may even go with a 2.4:1 ratio. I may go with a fixed 1.2 gain screen, but since I've been so happy with my High Power, and it doesn't look too bright now at night with this projector (and will dim more as the bulb breaks in and I move up in screen size), I'm thinking of possibly going with a Model C High Power 119" diagonal 16:9 screen (again, I may have them custom make it with extra black masking at top to give it a 2.4:1 ratio). At this screen size, and with the extra masking up top, and using the newer 2.4 gain material, am I likely to have more problems with waves than I currently have with my 2.8 gain 92" diagonal 16:9 screen? I've been very happy with the relative flatness of my current screen (and the fact that it doesn't accentuate the slight waves that are there).

Thanks!

I had a bad day yesterday. I have a 139x78 highpower mounted in my theater. i was pulling it down and one of the straps holding it up broke. The screen wadded up on the floor. Now I have spots all over the image. I will have to buy a new scree. I was going to mount the screen in a fixed frame. I still want to do this and remember when I bought this screen a model c was cheaper than just the fabric. Is this still the case and if it is, why? Yhe case has to add quite a bit to the cost. Is there any way to purchase the material cheaper?

I know this might be a redundant question but is there really no plan on bringing back the classic high power of 2.8 gain? I have a 10 foot wide 2.35 130 inch diagonal that I'm absolutely in love with. I was thinking I'd go the biggest size they had without a seam.

Oh and one question- how bad do seams look like on Da-Lite projector screens? If I wanted to go 200 inches :D

My 2.8 HP is 7 foot tall and has seam 1 foot from the top. Yes it is visible on solid white but I rarely notice it during a movie. I think the important thing is where the seam is positioned, if it's out to the edge of the screen then it's not really a an issue but I would imagine if it was across the middle of the screen than it would be unacceptable.

I had a bad day yesterday. I have a 139x78 highpower mounted in my theater. i was pulling it down and one of the straps holding it up broke. The screen wadded up on the floor. Now I have spots all over the image. I will have to buy a new scree. I was going to mount the screen in a fixed frame. I still want to do this and remember when I bought this screen a model c was cheaper than just the fabric. Is this still the case and if it is, why? Yhe case has to add quite a bit to the cost. Is there any way to purchase the material cheaper?

Buying the material in a pulldown model is the cheapest way. I looked into it recently and it's still the way it was years ago.

Hello all, I'm a long-time owner of a Model B 92" 16:9 High Power screen (original 2.8 gain). I just got a new projector (Epson 8350, though I'm still debating whether I'll keep it or trade it for a different make/model), and I'm planning on moving up to a bigger screen. I may even go with a 2.4:1 ratio. I may go with a fixed 1.2 gain screen, but since I've been so happy with my High Power, and it doesn't look too bright now at night with this projector (and will dim more as the bulb breaks in and I move up in screen size), I'm thinking of possibly going with a Model C High Power 119" diagonal 16:9 screen (again, I may have them custom make it with extra black masking at top to give it a 2.4:1 ratio). At this screen size, and with the extra masking up top, and using the newer 2.4 gain material, am I likely to have more problems with waves than I currently have with my 2.8 gain 92" diagonal 16:9 screen? I've been very happy with the relative flatness of my current screen (and the fact that it doesn't accentuate the slight waves that are there).

Thanks!

I have a 133" electric Cosmopolitan. It has a few waves but nothing that affects pq. I imagine if it was a fixed screen it would bother me to see it, but during movie it is a non issue. Not sure if that helps you any...

I have a 133" electric Cosmopolitan. It has a few waves but nothing that affects pq. I imagine if it was a fixed screen it would bother me to see it, but during movie it is a non issue. Not sure if that helps you any...Does that screen have extra masking at the top or is it just the normal couple of inches? Just asking because part of what I'm wondering is if having more of the lighter-weight masking material up top, with the heavier-weight screen material below might make things better/worse in terms of waves.

Thanks for the response! I must say that's disheartening! But at least I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this. You said that one was the new 2.4 - the others were the 2.8? They all had striping of some kind - whether vertical or horizontal?

I called DaLite today and spoke with a representative. He made it sound like this was something he hadn't heard of before. I even sent over the picture I posted here after getting off the phone, but have yet to hear back about that. He told me they could send me a new screen and even offered to swap for another material (not something I want to do). I definitely can't complain about the support as it's been top-notch from both DaLite and AVS, but the QC problems are another thing entirely. I guess I have to mull over my choices.

Has anyone else experienced this with the 2.4 material?

You could try washing the screen but it's not easy, it takes a bit work to get a streak free finish.

My 2.8 HP has a join at 6ft because it's 160" 16:9 and when it arrived it was immediately obvious that the top 1ft piece was brighter looking than the bottom 6ft piece. I couldn't send it back because of my location so I just put up with it, fortunately it wasn't that noticeable during normal viewing so I didn't worry too much.

Recently however a large bug mark turned up on the bottom half and had to use a mulitpurpose cleaner to get it off as it was very stubborn. I tried water and then soapy water which was recommended but neither worked. What I noticed later when watching a movie was that the section I cleaned was now brighter then the rest of the screen.

Of course the only solution now was to clean the whole thing from top to bottom with the same mulitpurpose cleaner and hope that it would all look uniform, fortunately after many goes it did. I no longer have a bright patch where the bug crap was and the top and bottom pieces are identical looking in gain and brightness.

My conclusion is that the bottom section of the screen and possibly to a lesser extent to top piece aswell had some kind of residue on it which reduced the gain of the surface. Cleaning it off increased gain but it also improved colour aswell and it reduced screen texture. I now find the screen texture on my High Power to be much harder to see and this has had a positive effect on the image. I think in general the picture is better.

The striping and smudges that some people report I suspect is that same residue although I'm not really sure.

So the way I cleaned the screen was to basically wet it from top to bottom in one go with the multipurpose cleaner(I used Ajax spray n wipe 5 in 1), then let it sit for a few mintues and then wipe down with a damp cloth, repeating this a second time. After the second go I had to wipe it down about 10 times with a bucket of warm tap water and a cloth to remove all of the soapy residue left by the multipurpose cleaner. If you don't do this you will have visible streaks. It's a pain to do and it took me awhile but I did eventually get a streak free screen.

There may be a better cleaner for this type of job, something less soapy perhaps but it was the only stuff I had that actually cleaned the screen without scrubbing and harming the screen fabric. You have to be careful you don't use a chemical that is too harsh or scrub the screen too hard as it could damage the facbric obviously. If you are going to try this you might want to use a test piece first to be safe.

I have posted this in the past but things get lost in this thread.
The below was done several times on a classic 2.8 screen but not tested on the new 2.4 which is different. I see no reason why this would not work on 2.4 but you should test a sample or area of screen along the edge/bottom first if you can.

Denatured Alcohol on a NEW CLEAN micro fiber cloth will allow you to clean the screen, with no streaks and very little dry time. Apply and wipe with one cloth and wipe dry with another. A hair dryer on cold can aid in almost instant dry time. Work in small over lapping areas wiping in one direction helps to prevent missed spots.
When utilizing the above method, it is very helpful to turn on your projector and display a white screen from the setup menu if you have one. This way you can see what is clean and what is still streaky and or missed.

WARNING~ Denature Alcohol ,it is HIGHLY Flammable! Be very careful and have some ventilation and no smoking or open flames in the room!
If you have bug spots, hydrogen peroxide helps greatly as it acts as a bleaching of the bug gunk. Apply to the bug and let it sit for a few minutes, reapply if the area drys, then clean as above.

Water and other cleans work to but as you have read, it can be a pain to get all of the detergent off and then you must wait a few day of dry time before you know the final outcome.

I have posted this in the past but things get lost in this thread.
The below was done several times on a classic 2.8 screen but not tested on the new 2.4 which is different. I see no reason why this would not work on 2.4 but you should test a sample or area of screen along the edge/bottom first if you can.

Denatured Alcohol on a NEW CLEAN micro fiber cloth will allow you to clean the screen, with no streaks and very little dry time. Apply and wipe with one cloth and wipe dry with another. A hair dryer on cold can aid in almost instant dry time. Work in small over lapping areas wiping in one direction helps to prevent missed spots.
When utilizing the above method, it is very helpful to turn on your projector and display a white screen from the setup menu if you have one. This way you can see what is clean and what is still streaky and or missed.

WARNING~ Denature Alcohol ,it is HIGHLY Flammable! Be very careful and have some ventilation and no smoking or open flames in the room!
If you have bug spots, hydrogen peroxide helps greatly as it acts as a bleaching of the bug gunk. Apply to the bug and let it sit for a few minutes, reapply if the area drys, then clean as above.

Water and other cleans work to but as you have read, it can be a pain to get all of the detergent off and then you must wait a few day of dry time before you know the final outcome.

Yeah I probably did it the hard way although I'm not sure if one could safely clean an entire 160" screen with Alcohol, it's a very large surface area but I never tried it so I can't really say. Also you would have test it to see if it removed the screen residue I talked about. If it did and you could do it safely then using Alcohol sounds like a much better solution. Too bad I didn't know about that earlier.

Yeah I probably did it the hard way although I'm not sure if one could safely clean an entire 160" screen with Alcohol, it's a very large surface area.

That sure would be a long and painful job.. you can only work about a square foot at a time with alcohol..

Thanks for all the input everyone!

My replacement screen (number 3) in nearly perfect. It looks much brighter as well. Probably because the reflective coating is applied more consistently or there's less dirt on the screen.

The only downside of this one is that there is a small spot (less than an inch square) near the middle of the screen, but is hard to notice during normal viewing - but is clearly visible with a bright white screen. Has anyone else tried cleaning a small spot on a 2.4? If so, what did you use. I'd hate to make it worse.

Thanks for all the input everyone!

My replacement screen (number 3) in nearly perfect. It looks much brighter as well. Probably because the reflective coating is applied more consistently or there's less dirt on the screen.

The only downside of this one is that there is a small spot (less than an inch square) near the middle of the screen, but is hard to notice during normal viewing - but is clearly visible with a bright white screen. Has anyone else tried cleaning a small spot on a 2.4? If so, what did you use. I'd hate to make it worse.

Scroll back 3 posts or so.. If you have a sample test the whatever you use on it first.

Yeah, I saw that. I just wanted to hear if anyone had tried that procedure on the new 2.4 fabric. The directions on the dalite website say you can use denatured alcohol so I'm assuming its still okay.

I still have the screen that had the horizontal streaks so maybe I can test on it to make sure. Otherwise I'll request a sample to play with.

OK, just to make sure we're on the same page. Denatured alcohol being that stuff you find in the paint aisle used for cleaning brushes?

Yes, used to thin shellac and make fire.. so be careful comes in quart cans in the paint aisle
http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/products_specialty_chemicals.html

To update with my experience trying to clean my 2.4 HP screen... I used the denatured alcohol and found no negative or positive difference. It looks like the mark I'm seeing on my screen isn't dirt, but instead an issue in the actual beads or coating. Since this is my best screen yet of the 3 I suppose I'm going to deal with this problem unless anyone had other ideas I can try.

Going forward Da-Lite really needs to address their quality issues with the HP screens. Their customer service is very helpful and willing to swap out the screens, but it's been such a huge pain and waste of a lot of time. Taking time off work to both accept the screens and return the old, snapping new screens in place, disassembling and boxing up old screens. Ugh.

To update with my experience trying to clean my 2.4 HP screen... I used the denatured alcohol and found no negative or positive difference. It looks like the mark I'm seeing on my screen isn't dirt, but instead an issue in the actual beads or coating. Since this is my best screen yet of the 3 I suppose I'm going to deal with this problem unless anyone had other ideas I can try.

Going forward Da-Lite really needs to address their quality issues with the HP screens. Their customer service is very helpful and willing to swap out the screens, but it's been such a huge pain and waste of a lot of time. Taking time off work to both accept the screens and return the old, snapping new screens in place, disassembling and boxing up old screens. Ugh.

I find it very interesting that there are all these quality issues.. When they replaced the old 2.8 they (sales manager) told me the new screen would correct a lot of quality issues they had with the 2.8.. looks like that was BS!

I'm looking forward to getting my 100" diag (49x87) HP 2.4 screen. I'll be matching it up to the Optoma HD33 projector.

I take it AVS doesnt ship to the UK ? These screens are not cheap in the UK. :(

Got a question on the "Updated Da-Lite HP Screen Gain Calculator".

I'm planning on a 115" wide 2.35 screen. I was thinking of the Stewart ST-130, but the sparklies make me nervous, so I'm looking at the HP 2.4.

I'm using the calculator for the HP 2.4 screen and the gains that I am getting are left = 1.30, center = 1.38, right = 1.54. My question is how noticeable is the brightness variation across the screen with the gains noted above and what differences in gain are noticeable? These numbers reflect someone located closer to one edge of the screen.

Thanks,

Has anyone sold their Dalite HP screen?

I have a 106" 16:9 Dalite HP 2.8 gain Model C pulldown screen that I want to sell (bought a 119" HP screen) but I'm wondering where I can try to sell this. I would think this would sell since the 2.8 gain material is excellent and is no longer sold.

Shipping would require freight and I'm sure it would be expensive.

Has anyone sold their Dalite HP screen?

I have a 106" 16:9 Dalite HP 2.8 gain Model C pulldown screen that I want to sell (bought a 119" HP screen) but I'm wondering where I can try to sell this. I would think this would sell since the 2.8 gain material is excellent and is no longer sold.

Shipping would require freight and I'm sure it would be expensive.

I sold mine by listing in the AVS Classified's. Fortunately I had saved the original box and packing, and though it was a hassle shipping it, it made it just fine all the way across the country.

I sold mine by listing in the AVS Classified's. Fortunately I had saved the original box and packing, and though it was a hassle shipping it, it made it just fine all the way across the country.

Thanks! I think I still have the original box stored for this screen in the attic as well. I know the distance matters in shipping cost but if you don't mind me asking what a rough price was on shipping something of this size?

Thanks! I think I still have the original box stored for this screen in the attic as well. I know the distance matters in shipping cost but if you don't mind me asking what a rough price was on shipping something of this size?

Don't remember explicitly, but I think ~ $200 (CA to GA).

Got a question on the "Updated Da-Lite HP Screen Gain Calculator".

I'm planning on a 115" wide 2.35 screen. I was thinking of the Stewart ST-130, but the sparklies make me nervous, so I'm looking at the HP 2.4.

I'm using the calculator for the HP 2.4 screen and the gains that I am getting are left = 1.30, center = 1.38, right = 1.54. My question is how noticeable is the brightness variation across the screen with the gains noted above and what differences in gain are noticeable? These numbers reflect someone located closer to one edge of the screen.

Thanks,

Have you tried a sample of the Stewart? I use a hp in the showroom because I have a lot of underpowered projectors come in but a Stewart130 would be my preference. I saw aa full 1.7 at ces in the jvc booth and it was also a good screen but did have some sparklies.

Don't remember explicitly, but I think ~ $200 (CA to GA).

Thanks! I figured it would be very costly to ship.

Have you tried a sample of the Stewart? I use a hp in the showroom because I have a lot of underpowered projectors come in but a Stewart130 would be my preference. I saw aa full 1.7 at ces in the jvc booth and it was also a good screen but did have some sparklies.

I don't have a projector yet........still investigating. The demos that I've seen show these sparklies on the ST-130. One place that I've gone has 4 theater show rooms and he exclusively uses 1.0 gain screens and I love the smoothness of the image. The problem is twofold: I don't have a bat cave, so it will light up the room (one thing that I noticed) and as the bulb ages I will be too dim (under 12 fL's).

That's why my question on the HP 2.4. Any experience with noticeable brightness non-uniformity across the screen from off-axis viewing (35°)?

Thanks,

I don't have a projector yet........still investigating. The demos that I've seen show these sparklies on the ST-130. One place that I've gone has 4 theater show rooms and he exclusively uses 1.0 gain screens and I love the smoothness of the image. The problem is twofold: I don't have a bat cave, so it will light up the room (one thing that I noticed) and as the bulb ages I will be too dim (under 12 fL's).

That's why my question on the HP 2.4. Any experience with noticeable brightness non-uniformity across the screen from off-axis viewing (35°)?

Thanks,

The new HP 2.4 has a 20degree viewing cone. Do to being retroreflective you have to setup ideal to reap the benefits. No ceiling mount. You will find that everything is a compromise.

Well I had approx 1/5 of the top of my screen darker. Not lines, the entire screen area. It could be especially seen on a white projected image. I first noticed it watching hockey. Taking a flash photograph clearly showed it as well.

I initially thought it was the screen damaged maybe by the rollers as mine is a manual pulldown. Another poster suggested cleaning it.

After a careful cleaning the dark area was completely gone.

How did you clean it?

The official cleaning process can be found on the Dalite website.

I used a clean, white microfiber cloth that I dampened with the distilled water. I then lightly rubbed the screen going in one direction from the top - down. I did this process in "rows" all the way across the screen surface.

I then let it dry for about 2 hours and repeated this process twice more focusing more on the darkened area.

After that the screen looked brand new. The dark area was completely gone.

The main thing to remember is you want to cloth damp enough to clean but not soaked so water is dripping off it. Also don't use a lot of force when wiping.

Good luck.

I had the exact same problem with a Model C 2.8 159" screen that I just bought a few months ago. YES Da-Lite still have a few of them in stock. I got mine 5 months ago drop shipped directly from them. Well after about two weeks I started to notice that about 1/5 of the top of the screen had developed a dark shade stretching all the way across the screen horizontally. Man was unhappy and just thought that I had a defective screen and that I would just live with it then take it down, ship it back, install new one, blah blah blah. This thing is BIG and HEAVY and a pain in the neck to install.

Well yesterday I noticed that another dark shade (a few shades lighter then the first) developing about 2/5 down :mad::mad:! What in the world is going on here. There is no way I can live with this. I was just about to call Dalite but then I thought I should check here first! GOOD OLE AVS Forums to the rescue! After a quick search I found the quotes above.

Well I cleaned the top half of the screen just as described by Mystify and :eek: WOW :eek: what a difference!!! It looks a 1000 times better then before. It looked so good that I could see the dirt on the bottom half of the screen that I never noticed before. So I just cleaned the whole screen and I'm just speechless. The screen looks incredible. MUCH better then it was even brand new out of the box.

Just wanted to let you guys know to CLEAN your HP SCREEN!!!!!

Buying the material in a pulldown model is the cheapest way. I looked into it recently and it's still the way it was years ago.

I am a dealer in ontario. Kind of depends. If you get the fabric with the binding and snaps it still takes more time to make the a pulldown. You do not need the binding for a diy project.

The 2.8 high power is no longer a sku.

The new 2.4 high contrast and standard high power do not glass beads.

The case for a pulldown is just a stamped punched metal. If you are going to do a diy frame for the material I get my customers to order it with an extra black top they can just roll it out on a clean surface and cut it.

Dalite extruded aluminum screen frame with the velvet and snaps called the cinama contour is a bargain.

Talked to the dealer where I bought my first screen. She is really awesome. Told her I needed fabric but not the casing. She talked to Dalite and the model C is cheaper than the fabric. Shipping was going to be $114. She called and asked if they could cut the fabric out of the casing and just ship it to save shipping. The guy had to ask and call her back. Someone else at Dalite called her and this guy said I just needed to order a replacement fabric. They actually have a part number for the fabric only. I ended up getting a 139x78 Hi Power replacement screen for about half the price of the model C.

Wondering if anyone has had any problems with keeping the manual screen rolled up most of the time. My wife wants to get a flatscreen in our TV room, which would be
watched most of the time, with a rare movie (1 or 2 per month). I was looking at a 119" diagonal model c manual pull down, but I'm concerned with waves (or other problems?) after being rolled up for so long. With 2 very young kids I don't get much of a chance to watch movies anymore!

Thanks,

Darren A.

2 1/2 years and no waves. We pull it down about 3 times per week.

2 1/2 years and no waves. We pull it down about 3 times per week.

Thanks! It should work out well: my wife gets a TV for normal viewing
(it's in a bonus room with lots of windows), and I get a larger screen!

Darren A.

You are going to love it!

I have had mine for a few weeks now, but have had not issues with it so far. It is not perfectly flat, but you can't see any issues with it while watching movies.
I picked mine up on the recommendation of a forum member as well as Mark Haflich of the AVS sales team.
I am so glad I finally took the plunge and went with a real big screen. Mine is right at 133 diag. Could not be happier. Give it a chance, I think you'll like it.

I've got a Dalite Hi Power screen (2.8) with my JVC-RS2. Its 106" diagonal with the projector mounted 16.5' from the screen, almost dead center with the screen (no offset). The seating area is about 14' from the screen and the viewing eye level is about 2' below the projector lens. I'm thinking of upgrading to the Epson 6010. Would the 6010 be too bright with this screen?

I've got a Dalite Hi Power screen (2.8) with my JVC-RS2. Its 106" diagonal with the projector mounted 16.5' from the screen, almost dead center with the screen (no offset). The seating area is about 14' from the screen and the viewing eye level is about 2' below the projector lens. I'm thinking of upgrading to the Epson 6010. Would the 6010 be too bright with this screen?

I have a very similar configuration (and Epson 6010), but with the projection beam only about a foot over my head. Especially for 3D, it's amazing. The lamp will dim, or you can filter it. Either way, "too bright" is not a problem.

I was going Yo get the epson 5010 and a 159" high power screen. First row is 15' from eyes to screen and second row is around 21 feet from eyes to screen. Do you think the 159" is to big? Or should I go with 133"

Will I lose picture quality if I go to 159"

Hi power screen is the way to go. Geez I miss my hp screen. I even had the 2.8 gain. Loved that screen till me and my son were goofing around and he knocked over a speaker and scratched the screen. Had black marks from it breaking the glass beads so now it just sits in my basement on the floor under stuff. Now I'm back to my matte white screen and everyday miss the hp screen

159" is not too big. Never such a ing as too big. I've moved up from a 106" to a 120" now I have a 140" motorized screen. It works but eh still miss that pop with the hp and now with all this talk in this thread about 159" it might be time to move on up Again. Gotta upgrade the Epson 8100 though. Thing is a dinosaur !

I'm siting 12' from my screen and the projector is ceiling mounted directly over my head and I have 8' ceilings. There is no way I can drop the projector to near eye level so I'm not really expecting much gain from the HP but I'm thinking of getting it because of the reports that the HP material is smooth and doesn't have waves.

Would this setup be okay? I'm concerned that I may get some of the gain effect but it won't be even over the whole screen. Does the gain drop off uniformly over the entire screen?

Conan
You can,t bend all the things you want and expect the HP to conform. Your head needs to be very close to the light source. What you describe is thats not the case.
You need an angular reflective material to fill your requirements, simple really

Regards
David

I'm siting 12' from my screen and the projector is ceiling mounted directly over my head and I have 8' ceilings. There is no way I can drop the projector to near eye level so I'm not really expecting much gain from the HP but I'm thinking of getting it because of the reports that the HP material is smooth and doesn't have waves.

Would this setup be okay? I'm concerned that I may get some of the gain effect but it won't be even over the whole screen. Does the gain drop off uniformly over the entire screen?

Not going to be any better than a 1 gain screen. You may see the waves since you will not be viewing the image on axis. The screen does get some waves and wrinkles but you do not see them do to the way the screen works when set up properly. Buying this screen with you setup is not a good idea.

OK thanks guys. Was hoping that the HP was a thicker material and less prone to waves or wrinkles. I'm actually not getting for the gain as I know I won't really benefit from it anyway. What pulldown screen would you recommend for having the least amount of waves/wrinkles.

Has anyone here ordered/using a Model C High Power w/extra black drop top/bottom? I have an Epson 8350 and was hoping to have them make me a custom 2.35:1 screen with extra black drop top/bottom (essentially giving me a 16:9 screen with a 2.35:1 "window") but when I had an online chat with the Da-Lite reps, they mentioned that this could result in a "ladder effect". Basically, they heat seam the black drop to the High Power material, and that seam creates a slight ridge which, when the screen is rolled up, can cause a slight indentation in the High Power material every 10" or so. This would presumably lessen when the screen is down for a few days, but mine won't be, as I'm looking to retract it when not in use.

So now I'm leaning towards giving up on that idea and just going with the standard 16:9 screen (same width as what I would have been doing above). This will mean that light leakage in the black bars will be more noticeable and TV viewing will be bigger than I want it to be (I'd prefer that to be smaller so as to maximize my projector brightness and minimize the obviousness of the over compression of my cable TV HDTV content).

Still, before I completely give up on the idea, I figured I'd post here to see if anyone else had a screen with a significant amount of extra black drop and could comment on this "ladder effect" issue/non-issue.

Sorry for the double-post, but I'm hoping someone can help me out. Here's the latest update on my saga...

So I just got finished chatting (again) with a Da-Lite rep. He told me that even the standard black borders are heat seamed onto the High Power material now. If accurate info, I'm assuming that this change coincided with the introduction of the newer 2.4 gain High Power material, as my older 92" diagonal 16:9 Model B w/High Power 2.8 gain material appears to have a painted-on black border.

As such, this would seem to indicate that the "ladder effect" would be a potential issue on any High Power roll-up screen, regardless of whether it has extra black drop, or just the standard black borders.

Again, if true, I suppose the "good" part of this news, is that I should be able to get many of you 2.4 gain High Power Model B/C owners to confirm this (you should be able to feel a ridge between the screen and the black border/masking) and for those of you who frequently roll your screens up when not in use, if you could tell me if you see any signs of this "ladder effect" I would greatly appreciate it.

I currently have a Sony VW85 using a 106" - 1.3 gain screen. I am looking for a brighter image.
Would the HP 2.4 screen be too bright for this projector? We watch movies in a light controlled room with all lights off.