WOOHOO just got my tiny little tripod screen with HP fabric! No, I know, go big or go home.. but you gota work with the room you got.
Set up is as follows.
43x57 4:3 picture king with HP fabric in the 16:9 config which is about 65" diag
Mitsubishi HC3000 New lamp 200+ hours
Iris closed
Low power on the lamp
9' from the screen on a 15" high box, bottom of screen about 28" off the floor.
Seating is about 14" back or you can slide closer if you like :cool:
As to the viewing cone, my projector is at the same level as my knees and I am 5' behind it and it is BRIGHT not as bright as on the floor but that was to bright. Off to the side... not that I can go that far but 4-5 feet to the right of the projector along the wall, picture still look out of this world.

Watched HD movie.. August Rush and HD News after that.

Spent some time comparing to the old Apollo screen with who knows what kind of surface. I do think it is a positive gain since it has texture and sparkles up close.
The HP blew it away in every manner.. color, PQ, no sparkles or hot spots just a Bright Clear Picture!! Like I got a NEW projector but I didn't!
Had to back off on the contrast and the brightness a bit the projector still needs a pro calibration.

So to anyone who is thinking that hot spots or sparkles will be an issue.. standing as close I can to the screen the only thing you see is the projected image.. nothing else.. no texture at all. No sparkles.. omg why would you want anything else.. Oh.. and the minor waves you get at the bottom of a tripod screen.. NO CAN SEE! Thanks to everyone who has posted in the thread, I had not intentions of buying a new tripod screen.. but I am sure glad I did. Jason at AVS thanks for hooking me up it was a great upgrade and I can't wait to get a bigger house so I can get a BIG HP screen!!

guys, can you clearify this for me.

iirc. off axis gain of the HP is about 1.4/5ish ? normally its only my wife and i watching. but every other week or so, we have a few friends over. they sit next to our 2 seats, and the 2 girls lay on the floor. lense is about 2 1/2' directly above my eyes. how will the friends/girls be affected ?

thanx

They are going to love it! I can move all around my room, every seat including the floor has a great picture. I don't think you can go wrong with this screen. We have a Christmas tree with white lights in the rear corner, another Christmas decoration on the fireplace mantel, and 6 can lights on medium, and the picture is still excellent. No need for a bat cave! Awesome screen:D

Thank you badgerpilot! That's what I wanted to hear. I'm ceiling mounting it and want it down at a certain height. Given the measurements fully extended I need to hang it 10" from the ceiling. How does everyone hang these? Chains hanging from the ceiling? I'm assuming I have to hang at the ends but doubt there are studs exactly where I want to hang it. What should I use?

I was also contemplating the model C 110" but not sure the extra 4" is worth the money. Worth it? I'm sitting 11' back and 13' throw buying the Epson 8500UB tomorrow.



I just hung my 106" model B. Watching MNF with an Epson 8100 and all I can say is wow! Mine is a temporary solution as well, I will need to take it up and down as needed. I have a samsung dlp behind it. The screen is mounted on a wall unit. Absolutely ZERO wrinkles. The screen is perfect. I went with the B because I wanted something a little smaller since I will need to move it at times. The roller mechanism is very smooth. For me, it wasn't so much the cost, but portability but I think you will be happy with the B. Of course I can't comment about long term use, but today, I am very happy that I got the B.

Thanks everyone on this thread especially you Tryg:D I can turn my 6 can lights on and I still have an incredible picture! It is just like watching my 61" DLP only it's 106"!!! If anyone is on the fence, IMO, go for it!

Thank you badgerpilot! That's what I wanted to hear. I'm ceiling mounting it and want it down at a certain height. Given the measurements fully extended I need to hang it 10" from the ceiling. How does everyone hang these? Chains hanging from the ceiling? I'm assuming I have to hang at the ends but doubt there are studs exactly where I want to hang it. What should I use?

I was also contemplating the model C 110" but not sure the extra 4" is worth the money. Worth it? I'm sitting 11' back and 13' throw buying the Epson 8500UB tomorrow.
There are tabs at the end of the case to hang from. Dalite sells various brackets (http://www.dalite.com/products/install_pdfs/108.pdf) that could be mounted with the use of molly bolts, no stud required. The weight is only 26 pounds so it is not that much weight. If you are mounting above your plasma and you are DIY capable, I would mount a 2x4 2" longer than the case above the plasma. I don't know how far out your plasma is from the wall, but you may need some other cuts of wood to get the case out in front of the plasma. Then mount the case to the board. Finally, use the decorative trim of your choice to go in front of the case. If your are really good, you could make the decorative part a shelf. This would end up being a "floating shelf" like this one here: http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/cd/cd5b8897-b04c-4474-8825-1b5afb35b963_300.jpg That way, the screen will be hidden by the "shelf" when you don't need it and pull it down for movie night. I don't know if the extra 4" is worth it or not, only you can decide that, but the 106" is a nice size 13' back. By the way, I have the projector on at 9:45 in the morning, it is cloudy but still a lot of light with a window right next to the screen, another window on the side in the back of the room, and the picture is very watchable:)

There are tabs at the end of the case to hang from. Dalite sells various brackets (http://www.dalite.com/products/install_pdfs/108.pdf) that could be mounted with the use of molly bolts, no stud required. The weight is only 26 pounds so it is not that much weight. If you are mounting above your plasma and you are DIY capable, I would mount a 2x4 2" longer than the case above the plasma. I don't know how far out your plasma is from the wall, but you may need some other cuts of wood to get the case out in front of the plasma. Then mount the case to the board. Finally, use the decorative trim of your choice to go in front of the case. If your are really good, you could make the decorative part a shelf. This would end up being a "floating shelf" like this one here: http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/cd/cd5b8897-b04c-4474-8825-1b5afb35b963_300.jpg That way, the screen will be hidden by the "shelf" when you don't need it and pull it down for movie night. I don't know if the extra 4" is worth it or not, only you can decide that, but the 106" is a nice size 13' back. By the way, I have the projector on at 9:45 in the morning, it is cloudy but still a lot of light with a window right next to the screen, another window on the side in the back of the room, and the picture is very watchable:)


Ah thanks.. Here's my room below. I was thinking of mounting it on the ceiling and have it drop right in front of the plasma. But you are saying use the extension wall mount bracket and hang it from there.. Makes more sense.

http://i49.tinypic.com/zja437.jpg

They are going to love it! I can move all around my room, every seat including the floor has a great picture. I don't think you can go wrong with this screen. We have a Christmas tree with white lights in the rear corner, another Christmas decoration on the fireplace mantel, and 6 can lights on medium, and the picture is still excellent. No need for a bat cave! Awesome screen:D

:thumbs up: thanx

(this place needs a few more smilies)

now, i have to find it at what i think is a good price. so, if anyone see's a 120"ish manual on sale somewhere. please pm me. thanx :)

Ah thanks.. Here's my room below. I was thinking of mounting it on the ceiling and have it drop right in front of the plasma. But you are saying use the extension wall mount bracket and hang it from there.. Makes more sense.

http://i49.tinypic.com/zja437.jpg

Looks like your plasma is on a stand kind of far from the wall. I don't think the brackets will get it out that far. Honestly, if it were me, I would get a wall mount from monoprice so that the plasma is tight to the wall. That way it is going to be much easier to mount the screen and you could use the floating shelf idea to cover the screen case when not in use. You could easily make something that would match your wall units. If you leave the plasma on the stand, then you probably will have to mount from the ceiling.

:thumbs up: thanx

(this place needs a few more smilies)

now, i have to find it at what i think is a good price. so, if anyone see's a 120"ish manual on sale somewhere. please pm me. thanx :)

Give Jason a Call at AVS or PM/email him for a quote! I think you will be very happy, I know I was!

Give Jason a Call at AVS or PM/email him for a quote! I think you will be very happy, I know I was!

I would like to second that. Utilizing AVScience and Jason should be an "automatic." Prices, advice, and this forum...period.

Searched this thread but couldn't find the answer...couldn't find it on the Dalite site either, so...

How much black top masking is there on a 92" model B pulldown? I need at least 9 inches.

Looks like your plasma is on a stand kind of far from the wall. I don't think the brackets will get it out that far. Honestly, if it were me, I would get a wall mount from monoprice so that the plasma is tight to the wall. That way it is going to be much easier to mount the screen and you could use the floating shelf idea to cover the screen case when not in use. You could easily make something that would match your wall units. If you leave the plasma on the stand, then you probably will have to mount from the ceiling.

Unfortunately i'm renting and didn't want to mount that to the wall, hence the stand. I need the screen 16.5" away from the wall to drop in front of the plasma. will the bracket be good enough for tha tdistance?

Unfortunately i'm renting and didn't want to mount that to the wall, hence the stand. I need the screen 16.5" away from the wall to drop in front of the plasma. will the bracket be good enough for tha tdistance?

Looks like the Model 23 extends up to 24" so that should work for you.

http://www.da-lite.com/products/product_pdfs/108.pdf

Im just curious what you guys think would be better, or if it would probably not make a difference. RIght now my projector and seating their is about 22 inch difference. I still get good gain however.

If i move my projector back i could probably drop it another 12 inches.

However I would have to move it about 3-4 inches back, and i noticed others did throw ratio lumens for my projector, and it became much dimmer even a few inches back. Right now according the the gain calculator im getting about 2.04 gain.

Again Im just wondering if anyone has a comment on what would be best.

Attached is the screen gain calculations for my setup. There are two items I did not know what to put in. I cannot lower the projector any more due to it has to be ceiling mounted (10') and I do not want to hit my head on it. The screen height from the floor is decided by the stand that will be under the screen (WAF).

One is the items not input is the offset of the seating. There will be one chair to the left and one to the right about 3' from the projector.

The other one is the projector distance left or right from the center of the screen. From the sitting position the projector will be about 12" to the right of the center of the screen.

Also what is the difference between the Perm Wall frame and Da-Snap frame? Besides the fact the Da-Snap is about $500 more.

One is the items not input is the offset of the seating. There will be one chair to the left and one to the right about 3' from the projector.

The other one is the projector distance left or right from the center of the screen. From the sitting position the projector will be about 12" to the right of the center of the screen.

You will need to make calculations for one chair at a time. Use the chair center as the distance, and enter the value in inches. Measure the distance parallel to the screen. A chair position to the left of screen center will be entered as a negative number.

For both calculations enter 12 as the projector offset on line 24. Note that this distance is also measured parallel to the screen and is not affected by seating position(s).

Looks like the Model 23 extends up to 24" so that should work for you.

http://www.da-lite.com/products/product_pdfs/108.pdf

In reading some posts last night, am I better off ordering one with an extra 10" of black fabric on top and ceiling mount it? or should I do it off the wall with the bracket extension?

Always get more black drop down than you think you need. Get 24 inches or more if necessary. What stays on the roller never hurts....in fact it helps by holding the tape tight to the roller. You can always use what's available in whatever setup you may change to. You can really add more once you order and would like more.

I hate to interject again, but since my installer is installing my screen this week I wouldnt mind any opinion on my question?

I am thinking about moving my projector back more and i could drop it about 10 inches. Right now its 22 inches difference between my eyes and the projector. It would be closer to 12-14 if i moved it back, because then its out of the way and i can drop it more. According to the gain calculator im getting 2.0 gain.

On the other side of the coin moving back a projector cuts down on lumens quite a bit, someone had shown me pictures of my projector at 12 inches and then at 15 inches I believe, and even in the pictures it looked much dimmer.

I would test this myself, but sadly my projector is 28 pounds and my installer created a makeshift mount and i dont like to touch it.

Maybe their would be really no change since im cutting lumens and increasing gain by doing this?

And one other topic I would like to mention, the reason i purchased a highpower was because my glass beaded got wrecked when a moth landed on it, and went up into the case, i tried to rub it off. I noticed using the da-lite samples when i tried to rub something off, it did the same thing as my glass beaded, and that is make a very large dark hole that black, and looks even worse.

Now I know some people recomended cleaning solutions, but how exactly do you clean it, if you cant rub it, without ruining the surface?

I hate to interject again, but since my installer is installing my screen this week I wouldnt mind any opinion on my question?

I am thinking about moving my projector back more and i could drop it about 10 inches. Right now its 22 inches difference between my eyes and the projector. It would be closer to 12-14 if i moved it back, because then its out of the way and i can drop it more. According to the gain calculator im getting 2.0 gain.

On the other side of the coin moving back a projector cuts down on lumens quite a bit, someone had shown me pictures of my projector at 12 inches and then at 15 inches I believe, and even in the pictures it looked much dimmer.

I would test this myself, but sadly my projector is 28 pounds and my installer created a makeshift mount and i dont like to touch it.

Maybe their would be really no change since im cutting lumens and increasing gain by doing this?

If it is going to be a big deal to move your projector, don't move it till your screen is in place and you see how freaking wonderful it looks! Then you can move your eyes back and up a little to see if it will be worth the effort.

I have sent Da-Lite an e-mail requesting some samples of the High Power. What are fabrics and/or brand samples could I get also that have a high gain to compare to the High Power?

when asking for a HP sample, do i just email them ? how long does it take to get the sample ?
how is the sample packed for shipping ?

thanx

I called on the phone going on 2 weeks ago and have not received the samples as of yet. I did buy the screen and that showed up in 3 days :eek: I would suggest you try the live chat session to verify who to call. I used the chat feature and got all my questions about the screen I was thinking of buying answered on the spot.

Searched this thread but couldn't find the answer...couldn't find it on the Dalite site either, so...

How much black top masking is there on a 92" model B pulldown? I need at least 9 inches.

iirc. you can get whatever you want.

I called on the phone going on 2 weeks ago and have not received the samples as of yet.

I did buy the screen and that showed up in 3 days :eek:

I would suggest you try the live chat session to verify who to call. I used the chat feature and got all my questions about the screen I was thinking of buying answered on the spot.


thats funny and sad, at the same time. you would think they would get the samples out "before you even call them" (so to say). before potential buyers had a chance to change their minds. seems like poor customer service to me.

that is great. or should i say, good customer service. i had been wondering about delivery times. who did you order it from ?

thanx, i will try that.

I received a reply to my e-mail concerning samples and they offered to send a 6" x 6" piece. Is this big enough and would I overstep my boundaries by asking for a bigger piece?

Fabricator, I ordered from Jason at AVS, they had the best price and the screen was drop shipped from Da-lite.

And one other topic I would like to mention, the reason i purchased a highpower was because my glass beaded got wrecked when a moth landed on it, and went up into the case, i tried to rub it off. I noticed using the da-lite samples when i tried to rub something off, it did the same thing as my glass beaded, and that is make a very large dark hole that black, and looks even worse.

Now I know some people recomended cleaning solutions, but how exactly do you clean it, if you cant rub it, without ruining the surface?

I use eyeglass cleaner and a soft, lint-free cloth. I had to work REALLY hard to get the sample Da-Lite sent me to fail. I mean, it took elbow grease, some real abuse, to create a blemish. Once it did finally flake, it was toast. I could tell there was no fixing it. But, I've cleaned mine a lot with that cloth/cleaner combo, and it's surprisingly tough. It's also a thick fabric, and the wall it's up against is rough on that side. No problem. I've also cleaned off some smashed insects (mosquitoes, little spiders, etc.).

Searched this thread but couldn't find the answer...couldn't find it on the Dalite site either, so...

How much black top masking is there on a 92" model B pulldown? I need at least 9 inches.

iirc. you can get whatever you want.

How do you specify this when ordering from an online store? I don't see any way of doing this...I'm in Canada so there are only a couple places where I can purchase one.

How do you specify this when ordering from an online store? I don't see any way of doing this...I'm in Canada so there are only a couple places where I can purchase one.

I'd call Jason with AVS. I did, he rocks
Jason C. Turk
Sales, Installations and ISF Calibrations
585-671-2968
jason@avscience.com
NOTE: I work for A/V Science, AVSForu

How do you specify this when ordering from an online store? I don't see any way of doing this...I'm in Canada so there are only a couple places where I can purchase one.

Not taking anything away from AVS, but for us canadians go check out www.projectorsplus.ca. They have pricing on there and show how much extra blackdrop costs.

Not taking anything away from AVS, but for us canadians go check out www.projectorsplus.ca. They have pricing on there and show how much extra blackdrop costs.

Thanks..called a few places and getting conflicting information. One place said it comes standard with 18" drop and another said 2" with extra $$ per square foot.

Anyone?

Okay, checked the da lite website and they list two part#'s for model B replacement fabric....

98270 Fabric, High Power 45" x 80" - 92" diag. with 18" black drop
86230 Fabric, High Power 45" x 80" - 92" diag.

Now I'm even more confused:confused:

I called on the phone going on 2 weeks ago and have not received the samples as of yet. I did buy the screen and that showed up in 3 days :eek: I would suggest you try the live chat session to verify who to call. I used the chat feature and got all my questions about the screen I was thinking of buying answered on the spot.

Just got the sample book. Each piece is 6-7/8" square, one for every material they sell.

So I ordered the 110" Model C with CSR from Jason at AVS, he was great to deal with.

I also know after reading way too much of this thread it's retro-reflective meaning I need it to be eye level to get the most out of this. Problem is that I was talking to my wife tonight and she'd like the projector ceiling mounted and out of the way!

I was going to put it behind the sofa on bar stool that we would pull out on the weekends for movie night, but realized having to put it in the exact position, everytime might be difficult and in fact hanging this from the ceiling right above the window line would be aesthetically the best. The center of the screen will be 39" from the ceiling, my eyes will be at 70" from the ceiling. Projector where ideally it would be mounted for the wife would be about 22" from the ceiling.
Throw is 13'

What's going to happen if I do this?

Any other suggestions on what to do? anyone else use a stand that they pull in and out?

http://i46.tinypic.com/280jiic.jpg

If you ceiling mount it, is the wife willing to have the needed construction done to run cables and power?
As bad as it is for the projector (they say never move it) I move mine from storage shell to box every time I use it. Takes moments to get it lined up.. Having it mounted is nice but if you have a finished room with no ceiling access can turn into a big job..

If you ceiling mount it, is the wife willing to have the needed construction done to run cables and power?
As bad as it is for the projector (they say never move it) I move mine from storage shell to box every time I use it. Takes moments to get it lined up.. Having it mounted is nice but if you have a finished room with no ceiling access can turn into a big job..

actually i would just build a shelf right above the window line and put the projector there. I would be able to run power straight down as there's a gap between the window and the larger sliding glass door shutters. I'd run hdmi cable under the rug, under the sofa, come out behind the sofa (put a cable runner) and up the wall. Although is there a solution for cat5? i can run that around the house.

I was looking at these flat hdmi cables to run http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024012&p_id=4162&seq=1&format=2

i have a 30' monoprice flat cable. it is very nice.

i have a 30' monoprice flat cable. it is very nice.


hmm, i might just do this
http://www.francisav.com/gigant.htm

or
http://www.francisav.com/projecto.htm

wondering how difficult it is to put it back in the same spot everytime/focus, etc

Not hard. You don't change the focus and the screen does not move..once the image fits inside the screen it is just about on the money. BTW that link did not work for me.

Thanks..called a few places and getting conflicting information. One place said it comes standard with 18" drop and another said 2" with extra $$ per square foot.

Anyone?

Okay, checked the da lite website and they list two part#'s for model B replacement fabric....

98270 Fabric, High Power 45" x 80" - 92" diag. with 18" black drop
86230 Fabric, High Power 45" x 80" - 92" diag.

Now I'm even more confused:confused:

go check out www.dalite.com . in the model B, there are 2 sizes you could get with extra blackdrop(92" & 106").

eg. 106" 16X9 highpower model B with 2" blackdrop # 78672
" " with 12" blackdrop # 98031

Have a quick question for anyone that would be willing to help. I'm looking at a model b 92". Right now i'm projecting on a wall and projecting a 95" diagonal image. I'm willing to drop to 92" diagonal, but when they say 92" does that include the border? So the actually viewing screen is less? I don't know if i'd want to drop down to the 80s in screen size.

One other quick question is there any issues you may run into if you leave the screen pulled down the whole time? I don't see any reasons for me to roll it up ever.

Thanks for any help.

92" would be the viewable image, not the 2" masked border.

leaving it down is best for watching movies :)

Have a quick question for anyone that would be willing to help. I'm looking at a model b 92". Right now i'm projecting on a wall and projecting a 95" diagonal image. I'm willing to drop to 92" diagonal, but when they say 92" does that include the border? So the actually viewing screen is less? I don't know if i'd want to drop down to the 80s in screen size.

One other quick question is there any issues you may run into if you leave the screen pulled down the whole time? I don't see any reasons for me to roll it up ever.

Thanks for any help.
Da-Lite has complete specs for all of its screens on its website. Scroll down and look to the right for "product documents":

http://www.da-lite.com/products/product.php?cID=9&pID=229

92" would be the viewable image, not the 2" masked border.

leaving it down is best for watching movies :)

awesome, thanks.

go check out www.dalite.com . in the model B, there are a few sizes you could get with the 18" blackdrop.

eg. 106" 16X9 highpower model B with 2" blackdrop # 78672
" " with 18" blackdrop # 98031

Excellent, thank you. Though it seems the 92" is has an 18" drop and the 106" is 12".

is anyone familar with the turnaround time from Dalite on the Cinema Contour Screens? I am narrowing down between the 2:35:1 HP, either 133" or 138" and was curious if these are pre-made or do they have a 1-2 week waiting period to make the screen?

This might be bad timing to order around xmas, perhaps i'll wait until after new years.

thanks!

is anyone familar with the turnaround time from Dalite on the Cinema Contour Screens? I am narrowing down between the 2:35:1 HP, either 133" or 138" and was curious if these are pre-made or do they have a 1-2 week waiting period to make the screen?

This might be bad timing to order around xmas, perhaps i'll wait until after new years.

thanks!

I ordered a 1.78:1 HP 133" Da-Lite Contour Electrol with numerous custom features through AV Science Store at noon CST on Monday, Nov 30, 2009. The invoice from Da-Lite showed it being ordered on December 4th, it shipped on December 9th and I received it in Oklahoma City yesterday afternoon, December 14th.

I'm surprised to have an electric screen of that size with so many custom features to be built and delivered so quickly.

Custom Features:
3 foot black drop at top
Black drop adjusted to 6 inches
Black Case and Black End Caps
Heritage Walnut veneer on case
50 foot RJ22 Cable to control screen (25 foot is standard)
Infrared Remote Receiver & Transmitter
Silent Motor
Built in Low Voltage Control Unit
10 foot power cord installed

Just ordered mine, model b 92" from Jason at AVS. Very helpful, glad someone recommended him. Can't wait to get the screen.

Oldlostcory:

I have had my manual Model C HP 106" diagonal for 3 years now - I used to leave it down all the time. One time I rolled it up to play around with setting it to a height of 38.5" to see how it would look in a 2.40:1 format. Used the projector lens shift to raise the image a bit to fit. I now have a hook stop mounted on the wall for my 'second' viewing position. I just let it roll up and slip the handle over the hook to hold the screen in that position. Then back down for 1.78:1. Works pretty good!

Oldlostcory:

I have had my manual Model C HP 106" diagonal for 3 years now - I used to leave it down all the time. One time I rolled it up to play around with setting it to a height of 38.5" to see how it would look in a 2.40:1 format. Used the projector lens shift to raise the image a bit to fit. I now have a hook stop mounted on the wall for my 'second' viewing position. I just let it roll up and slip the handle over the hook to hold the screen in that position. Then back down for 1.78:1. Works pretty good!

Not a bad idea, I may give it a try. Glad to hear there is nothing wrong with leaving it down.

I'm really curious how much of an improvement i'll see over my wall. I realize i'm going to lose some gain because I'm not seated close to the projector and I also use a fair amount of lens shift. If for some reason I don't see a difference then i'll come up with a new location I suppose. I'll take a few before and after pictures.

projector central has a new review of the high power screen...a "mixed review," at best, certainly quite a contrast to all the enthusiasm on this forum.

I myself have a high power screen, happy with it, but the review does have me wondering...

projector central has a new review of the high power screen...a "mixed review," at best, certainly quite a contrast to all the enthusiasm on this forum.

I myself have a high power screen, happy with it, but the review does have me wondering...

Here's the link for that piece. (http://www.projectorcentral.com/da-lite_high_power_screen_review.htm)

I've read a couple of "bad" reviews about the High Power in the last few months. The Projector Central "review" could hardly be called a review. It has a couple of anecdotes about black level and graininess, but no solid numbers. My ISF guy saw the Affinity at a trade show and he really liked it, too. It may be better than the HP, but I also read a piece in Widescreen Review (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FHBCHjHeThwJ:www.stewartfilmscreen.com/corporate/about_us/in_the_news/widescreen_review_september_2009.pdf+widescreen+review+and+t he+affinity+screen&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgg94fNhcAFKiJRfmL-5ufNaSniLpc1hgc4qzsWDzQbcqD_3uKcAb1O-092THuXCPe9XU5CiN2Ul2MH231VOyf8PaOLQwLFvyVY1pnhA5YQcgJ1vY7lR tMlXC8h7rGHbQTxjVYi&sig=AHIEtbQUI95jxFJyXaTzEw3yQtMFGc8GBQ) that didn't have very good things to say about it compared to the Stewart StudioTek 100. As a matter of fact, the Widescreen Review piece seems to tag the Affinity with some of the same negative attributes the Projector Central review attaches to the HP.

I don't have a link to the other relatively negative review of the HP, but it appears somewhere here on AVS. If I were to see the screens in an environment where the variables could be controlled carefully, I might like the StudioTek or the Affinity better, too. It's not a simple issue, though, since black level, gain, color uniformity and other screen attributes will vary depending on the projector's position, the viewer's seating position and other factors. A comparison of black level, for instance, even in a side by side viewing environment with two different screens, might be meaningless.

The only two screens I've seen in my own home theater are the Stewart Firehawk and the HP. I know which I prefer in that setting, and it's the HP by a wide margin. If I had only the Widescreen Review article to go on, I might rush out to buy the Stewart StudioTek 100. If I had only the Projector Central review to go on, I might want the JKP Affinity. Either one might convince me that my HP is a piece of crap that I should just throw onto the scrap heap and start over. My eyes (and my checkbook) don't tell me that. I'm very happy with the HP in my home theater.

I've agonized over this home theater stuff enough to agree with the basic premise of the Projector Central review - it's all about compromises. I know I don't have the perfect home theater, but until I can find a place to view lots of screens and see for myself something else that looks better, I'll be happy with the HP.

well put.

Hey can anyone give me some strong advice. I am going to be purchasing my first projector and I think I decided on the Epson 8500UB. I will be sitting about 10-11 feet back and I have a light controlled room but would like to watch TV sometimes with the light dimmed but movies will be lights out. I need a motorized screen since I will have my Pio plasma behind the screen. I am looking to get a 106" screen maybe 120" if it wont be to big for he measurements I mentioned. Oh and my walls are burgundy with a black ceiling. Any suggestions, thanks. Rich.

Here's some strong advice. Try putting a question in your post so we have some idea what you want advice on!

Here's some strong advice. Try putting a question in your post so we have some idea what you want advice on!

Oh my question is what kind of screen should I buy based on what I have said in my post? I was at work when I wrote that.

I was at work when I wrote that.

On company time.... now, now, now let's get to work. ;)

My eyes (and my checkbook) don't tell me that. I'm very happy with the HP in my home theater.

I've agonized over this home theater stuff enough to agree with the basic premise of the Projector Central review - it's all about compromises. I know I don't have the perfect home theater, but until I can find a place to view lots of screens and see for myself something else that looks better, I'll be happy with the HP.

I KNOW THAT'S RIGHT.... Joe, sounds like the HT Bug got you... :)

Steve

Here's the link for that piece. (http://www.projectorcentral.com/da-lite_high_power_screen_review.htm)

I've read a couple of "bad" reviews about the High Power in the last few months. The Projector Central "review" could hardly be called a review. It has a couple of anecdotes about black level and graininess, but no solid numbers. My ISF guy saw the Affinity at a trade show and he really liked it, too. It may be better than the HP, but I also read a piece in Widescreen Review (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FHBCHjHeThwJ:www.stewartfilmscreen.com/corporate/about_us/in_the_news/widescreen_review_september_2009.pdf+widescreen+review+and+t he+affinity+screen&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgg94fNhcAFKiJRfmL-5ufNaSniLpc1hgc4qzsWDzQbcqD_3uKcAb1O-092THuXCPe9XU5CiN2Ul2MH231VOyf8PaOLQwLFvyVY1pnhA5YQcgJ1vY7lR tMlXC8h7rGHbQTxjVYi&sig=AHIEtbQUI95jxFJyXaTzEw3yQtMFGc8GBQ) that didn't have very good things to say about it compared to the Stewart StudioTek 100. As a matter of fact, the Widescreen Review piece seems to tag the Affinity with some of the same negative attributes the Projector Central review attaches to the HP.


That projector central review is pathetic and seriously lacking in details. Its really hard to even call that a review. Also, comparing a 2.8 gain screen to a .8 or 1 gain screen just seems like a waste of time to me. Its like comparing a sniper rifle to a machine gun and stating that the machine gun can hit more targets from 10 feet away.

I think the general conclusion is accurate .... the HP is certainly not for everyone. My problem is that I think they exaggerate the off-axis 'problems'. I rarely sit off-axis, but when I do, the picture still looks very good and uniform ... its just not as bright. It certainly isn't unwatchable. Also, they fail to acknowledge the fact that the HP is an excellent roll-down option. Even if I couldn't sit in the prime gain cone ... I'd still get an HP if I used a pull down simply because it hides all wrinkles and waves. There are so many factors that should come into play when selecting a screen, that review fails to evaluate most of them.

I posted this seperate but since this thread is higher traffic..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1207731


Hey guys, please help...

I just installed my 110" model C with CSR and I can NOT retract this thing. pulling at an angle, straight down, etc.. It goes down about 4 inches but the roller mechanism just won't retract, it just snaps back the 4 inches. tried everything..

It's sitting in front of my plasma, so I definitely need to get the screen up :( Maybe I should have gone electric?

That projector central review is pathetic and seriously lacking in details. Its really hard to even call that a review. Also, comparing a 2.8 gain screen to a .8 or 1 gain screen just seems like a waste of time to me. Its like comparing a sniper rifle to a machine gun and stating that the machine gun can hit more targets from 10 feet away.

I think the general conclusion is accurate .... the HP is certainly not for everyone. My problem is that I think they exaggerate the off-axis 'problems'. I rarely sit off-axis, but when I do, the picture still looks very good and uniform ... its just not as bright. It certainly isn't unwatchable. Also, they fail to acknowledge the fact that the HP is an excellent roll-down option. Even if I couldn't sit in the prime gain cone ... I'd still get an HP if I used a pull down simply because it hides all wrinkles and waves. There are so many factors that should come into play when selecting a screen, that review fails to evaluate most of them.

I agree 100%. I have a model b pull-down that is just perfect for a living room. I really don't see the need to bash the off axis viewing either. To me, the drop off is minimal and the picture is excellent off to the sides. It is not anything like the off axis viewing of an LCD TV which is unacceptable to me. To be able to sit in a non-dedicated room, with ambient light, overhead can lights or a fire in the fireplace and still enjoy an outstanding 106" picture is what the HP is all about. I am a very happy HP owner:D

That projector central review is pathetic and seriously lacking in details. Its really hard to even call that a review. Also, comparing a 2.8 gain screen to a .8 or 1 gain screen just seems like a waste of time to me. Its like comparing a sniper rifle to a machine gun and stating that the machine gun can hit more targets from 10 feet away.



The part I think is funny is the insult to the 'inexperienced' user who uses the HP material to run a screen larger than the projector is capable of handling.

I think this depends on individual preference. I have a light controlled room and still prefer the HP material over a 1.0 gain material. I like a bright 'plasma like' image which the HP provides.

I am replacing my current model C 92" (16x9) with a Cinema Contour 138" (2:35:1). The Mitsubishi HC5500 can switch between 2:35 and 16:9 CIH.

Here's a few pics of the 92" against a 54"x126" 2:35:1 image. I am looking forward to the large screen. The 92" looks small!!

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite1.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite3.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite4.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite2.jpg

thanx for those pics. i am assuming that is a HP. yes, a 92 is small, unless you are sitting very close to it. i have a 98/106 screen, and it is very close to small. i am waiting for a deal on a 119" HP. hoping the prices drop a little after CHRISTMAS.

............ My problem is that I think they exaggerate the off-axis 'problems'. I rarely sit off-axis, but when I do, the picture still looks very good and uniform ... its just not as bright........

I don't know guys. It's pretty obvious to me that the PQ declines outside of the 30 degree viewing angle. I still love the HP but it does have that one draw-back.

zombie: It would be interesting to see how the brightness holds by moving the 92" screen way left or right (with just a portion on the image) and then take a picture.

The one and only problem I see with High Power and other high gain screens is that off axis, the gain can actually go below 1.0 fairly quickly whereas a 1.0 screen stays fairly even across the viewing environment.

I have a 133" M2500 Draper rated at about 2.0 gain and it hot spots, but overall I like it. I did put 1.0 gain swatches around the left and right sides and noticed, though, that the gain there was less then 1.0 (ie. the 1.0 gain swatch was brighter). The bright (hot) center though tricks my eyes into believing that overall the image is much brighter. That said, the HP is not supposed to hot spot, but I bet it still drops brightness towards the outer borders (as you watch inside the cone) of bigger screens--although evenly from the center.

I posted this seperate but since this thread is higher traffic..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1207731


Hey guys, please help...

I just installed my 110" model C with CSR and I can NOT retract this thing. pulling at an angle, straight down, etc.. It goes down about 4 inches but the roller mechanism just won't retract, it just snaps back the 4 inches. tried everything..

It's sitting in front of my plasma, so I definitely need to get the screen up :( Maybe I should have gone electric?

still looking for some help please...

zombie: It would be interesting to see how the brightness holds by moving the 92" screen way left or right (with just a portion on the image) and then take a picture.

The one and only problem I see with High Power and other high gain screens is that off axis, the gain can actually go below 1.0 fairly quickly whereas a 1.0 screen stays fairly even across the viewing environment.

I have a 133" M2500 Draper rated at about 2.0 gain and it hot spots, but overall I like it. I did put 1.0 gain swatches around the left and right sides and noticed, though, that the gain there was less then 1.0 (ie. the 1.0 gain swatch was brighter). The bright (hot) center though tricks my eyes into believing that overall the image is much brighter. That said, the HP is not supposed to hot spot, but I bet it still drops brightness towards the outer borders (as you watch inside the cone) of bigger screens--although evenly from the center.

My personal experience with HP133" sitting in the middle and 13-14' back is that it is highly uniform. Not hot spotting or dark corners. But this is expected if the projector is close to the seating position. Then the return angles to your eyes are the same everywhere on the screen regardless of its size.

That said, the HP is not supposed to hot spot, but I bet it still drops brightness towards the outer borders (as you watch inside the cone) of bigger screens--although evenly from the center.

You'd lose that bet. I tried quite a few projector positions when I was testing my screen gain calculator with the HP. As I recall, when the projector is a few inches behind and above a center viewer's eyes, the gain is slightly higher at the right and left edges of the screen than at the screen center. The gain difference is too small for a viewer to perceive, but it is present with some of the usual viewer-PJ geometries. The opposite is true for angular reflective screens, which generally have a significant decrease in gain at the edges, relative to the center.

I don't know guys. It's pretty obvious to me that the PQ declines outside of the 30 degree viewing angle. I still love the HP but it does have that one draw-back.

I'm not disagreeing that the off-axis viewing is a drawback. I just think that some people exaggerate the drawback. HP off-axis is not nearly as bad as LCD flat panels or rear projection DLPs, etc. The screen loses brightness, but it does not wash out unless you have a bunch of ambient light coming from the same off-axis. And if you have a bunch of ambient light, a 1.0 gain will not only wash out on the off-axis, but on-axis as well. As I said before, high gain screens are not for everyone and there is always a trade-off.

My personal experience with HP133" sitting in the middle and 13-14' back is that it is highly uniform. Not hot spotting or dark corners. But this is expected if the projector is close to the seating position. Then the return angles to your eyes are the same everywhere on the screen regardless of its size.

This is how far my seats will be from the 138" screen. I am hanging the projector relatively low, it will be about 3 feet above the viewer's head.

My seating will be 4 across, then 4 behind on a platform, well within the viewing cone.

I think people have to see the HP in person to see if it suites their particular needs. Since I have a relatively small viewing area and can hang the projector low, it will be perfect for what I need.

The part I think is funny is the insult to the 'inexperienced' user who uses the HP material to run a screen larger than the projector is capable of handling.

I think this depends on individual preference. I have a light controlled room and still prefer the HP material over a 1.0 gain material. I like a bright 'plasma like' image which the HP provides.

I am replacing my current model C 92" (16x9) with a Cinema Contour 138" (2:35:1). The Mitsubishi HC5500 can switch between 2:35 and 16:9 CIH.

Here's a few pics of the 92" against a 54"x126" 2:35:1 image. I am looking forward to the large screen. The 92" looks small!!

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite.jpg


http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite1.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite3.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite4.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/dalite2.jpg

These pic.'s just made me seriously look at moving from my stewart videomatte 200 (1.8) to a dalite HP. Will I be going back in overall PQ? I also have a draper m1300 that I might give a try before I make the move, unless you guys me into the dalite

Hey guys, please help...

I just installed my 110" model C with CSR and I can NOT retract this thing. pulling at an angle, straight down, etc.. It goes down about 4 inches but the roller mechanism just won't retract, it just snaps back the 4 inches. tried everything..

It's sitting in front of my plasma, so I definitely need to get the screen up :( Maybe I should have gone electric?

It might be busted, but I had that model and I needed to snap it down rather smartly to get it to retract. It's big and heavy, so you have a tendency to be too gentle with it.

Evan Powell's Projectorcentral review is an anomaly to me. I have been reading his stuff for years. I always felt he was very practical and a very straight shooter. In other words, his perceptions and mine always matched with regard to the several projectors which I have owned and he has reviewed. In other words, I have grown to trust his judgment and experience. I have owned several High Powers of several sizes. I even want a bigger one now. I replaced a zero gain screen with a High Power many years ago, and the difference it quality was so pronounced, I never gave it a second thought.

Well it is about 4 projectors later, and the detail in these new projectors is astounding, so it is making me wonder if there really is an improvement in detail with a flat screen. The problem is that I am pretty certain that the loss of gain would make the picture so dim that I couldn't see any claimed detail improvement anyway.

I am very puzzled.

Tryg, I note you have not commented on Evan's review. You and I always saw eye to eye on the High Power, and I'm sure you have a ton more experience than I do with various new projectors and the detail afforded by various screen types. Can you explain why Evan was so negatively impressed by the High Power? I don't get it.

I and my fellow viewers sit in the middle/cone of highest gain of a 133" diagonal High Power, mounted just a couple of feet from the floor, with the projector mounted about two feet over our heads.

Maybe this is one of those A/B situations where you can tell a difference with confronted with both, but if you walk from one room to the other, they look the same. In other words, not a difference you can notice on your own, and therefore nothing you would every miss.

Tryg, I note you have not commented on Evan's review. You and I always saw eye to eye on the High Power, and I'm sure you have a ton more experience than I do with various new projectors and the detail afforded by various screen types. Can you explain why Evan was so negatively impressed by the High Power? I don't get it.


I commented on his review...just not in this thread. :)

1. He did the review when he knew little about screens
2. He may have been influence by other manufacturers marketing bs
3. The review is subpar with findings that dont align themselves with other reviews on the screen.

ie the review is Junk ;)

I have owned 5 different screen materials over the years and always come back to the HP. It is, in my humble opinion, simply the best bang for the buck out there. I even have one HP dedicated to my gamma corrected G90 CRT projector. The HP can't do black? Evan, I'm embarrassed for you. You've obviously never seen "black" like a G90 doing a complete fade to black from the vibrant image produced by the HP. It will make you reconsider everything you thought you knew about projection and "black"! I also have a gamma-corrected 8500 LC CRT projector ceiling mounted and lowered to just above my head in my second HT room and guess what? Yes, I use another HP screen. The G90 is floor mounted and raised 30 inches off the ground to minimize colour shifting, which high gain screens are famous for. There is some colour shifting with both CRT projectors, but very little and this can only be seen on a full white field. The image kills that of any other screen I've tried with these projectors (two others) and it stays. I also use an Epson 7500 and 9500 with two other HP screens I have (I currently have 6 screens) and have tried other screens but always come back to the HP - In fact I've given up trying anything else. If you want a bright, vibrant image with a ton of detail and smoothness then you need to check out this screen - it rules! Evan is entitled to his opinion, even though it's wrong! :D

Hi guys. How would the High Power fare if I have a white back wall, and am unable to cover it or paint it with a dark colour. I can mount the projector around 7.5" below the top of a 100" screen, and the back wall is approximately 14' from the screen, so quite tight. Viewing height is 9" above bottom of screen.

Any thoughts?

wxnz: I would not recommend using any front projection screen--including the HP--in a room with a white rear wall 14 feet from the screen. If you cannot at least hang some dark drapes that you can pull closed behind the projector during movies, I would recommend either a flat panel monitor or a boxed rear projector.

I commented on his review...just not in this thread. :)

Anybody got a link?

1. He did the review when he knew little about screens


MAN, he just did it like last week! How could he still know so little about screens? It's GOT to be something else. Perhaps No.2? That would be a bummer.

I have owned 5 different screen materials over the years and always come back to the HP. It is, in my humble opinion, simply the best bang for the buck out there. I even have one HP dedicated to my gamma corrected G90 CRT projector. The HP can't do black? Evan, I'm embarrassed for you. You've obviously never seen "black" like a G90 doing a complete fade to black from the vibrant image produced by the HP. It will make you reconsider everything you thought you knew about projection and "black"! I also have a gamma-corrected 8500 LC CRT projector ceiling mounted and lowered to just above my head in my second HT room and guess what? Yes, I use another HP screen. The G90 is floor mounted and raised 30 inches off the ground to minimize colour shifting, which high gain screens are famous for. There is some colour shifting with both CRT projectors, but very little and this can only be seen on a full white field. The image kills that of any other screen I've tried with these projectors (two others) and it stays. I also use an Epson 7500 and 9500 with two other HP screens I have (I currently have 6 screens) and have tried other screens but always come back to the HP - In fact I've given up trying anything else. If you want a bright, vibrant image with a ton of detail and smoothness then you need to check out this screen - it rules! Evan is entitled to his opinion, even though it's wrong! :D

Well, you are making feel a little better. Thanks.

Well, you are making feel a little better. Thanks.

Good! You're no novice so have confidence in what you're seeing. There are so many biases on this forum for any number of reasons - some of them financial and some based on ego. I have no loyalty to any manufacturer, particular technology or system. I simply want the best for the money I'm willing to spend. The "best" for me may not be the "best" for someone else - I have no problem with that and I've found that the "best" for someone else sometimes doesn't work for me. I find that researching a product and learning the positives and negatives about it and then seeing it in action allows one to determine if the positives outweigh the negatives. Maybe yes, maybe no. For certain applications CRT works better than digital while for other applications digital works better than CRT - this is obvious if you own both. The HP works for me because it is "easy" - you don't have to strain to see detail. It simply enhances what's there so you can see it and don't have to second guess yourself if you actually seeing this or that or just thought you might have. I always feel let down when I see a film in a theatre. Dull and murky is how I'd describe it. I don't want that in my home theatre!

The HP works for me because it is "easy" - you don't have to strain to see detail. It simply enhances what's there so you can see it and don't have to second guess yourself if you actually seeing this or that or just thought you might have. I always feel let down when I see a film in a theatre. Dull and murky is how I'd describe it. I don't want that in my home theatre!

Thanks man. I appreciate it. And this is exactly how I feel. Typically movie theaters are a bummer. Although the presentation of Avatar last Sunday was nice and bright.

I used to explain the practical effect of a brighter image as similar to turning up a three-way light bulb. Everything looks clearer. You can see better.

I can't figure out Powell saying he saw a loss of detail. I'm thinking maybe we can't see the parts where the bubbles curve, though the other parts are brighter, so although it is bright, I'm missing part of the image/information. But the pixels are a lot bigger than the bubbles on the screen, so that doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus a pixel is just a pixel. It can look only one way at any one time. One color and one level of light. That's it. Not detail is in it.

And one of the funny ones around here has always been shadow detail. Sometimes if they can't see any shades of grey at all, they think they have deep blacks and shadow detail. I thought we called that "crushed".

Maybe he reviewed the other HP screen fabric. There is another lower quality, lower grain version that you apparently get with business screens. I will write a detailed post once I get the second screen with the supposed correct HP fabric that hopefully you are all talking about.

On many occasions, I've stood six inches from my HP, viewing a 1080p Sharp XV-Z20000 image of a Windows desktop. I can see the individual pixels clearly. I can see the gaps between pixels, sharp and clean and undistorted. Single chip DLP allows you to do that without worrying about 3-chip projector convergence errors.

I've also watched countless hours of video on both a Stewart Firehawk and the HP, and I've seen first hand the significant color and brightness uniformity problems with the Firehawk (and the sheen) - problems that, if present at all, I find imperceptible on the HP.

I can see a brightness shift as I move my head a few inches to the side while watching the HP, so I know what the "brightness cone" is and what it means. That's the only limitation of the HP that I care about. For me, it's the only limitation that matters. The HP's gain comes with very little downside, as far as I'm concerned, and that will be the case for a great many viewers. Those people who can't live with the cone need to look somewhere else. For me, it's not a problem.

I recently purchased a Panasonic PT-AE4000 projector, because the $2,000 price was so attractive and I wanted a second projector for my bedroom. I also didn't want to spend a lot for a projector, since I'm now convinced that 3D projectors are probably no more than a year or so away. Long story short, that projector has replaced my Sharp in the home theater.

Because of the high gain of the HP, and the fact that the Panasonic is so much brighter, I had to raise the Panasonic projector back up to a high shelf mount. From where my Sharp was mounted, the Panasonic was too bright. I can't have a bigger screen, because the room's just too small. But, with the HP in a more eye level position, I think I could easily go with a 150" screen, at the projector's best settings. That's the kind of thing the HP allows, and it's an amazing "feature."

I feel fortunate. I found this beautiful, inexpensive HP screen when I was doing my research, and I didn't have to wade through these negative reviews and dismiss it before I had a chance to discover in my own home theater just how great it is.

I wish I had a bigger room. :D

Joe, That is my experience and opinion too.

I would definitely go with a 159 if I could find a wall to fit it on. (Need at least 145" horizontal for border) That's a bummer. I just measured today and no dice.

I am setting up my permanent home for a projector and have been going back and forth between which screen to get. I will have some ambient light even with black-our drapes. I brought my Mits HC6000 with me over the holidays to set it up temporarily and project onto our beige walls. I was shocked how good the picture looked just being projected onto the walls.

So now that I am projecting onto a 12' wide wall where my wife wants it centered. I initially set it up for a 119" diagonal screen. She wanted to know why it could not get bigger. So I zoomed out to a projected 126" size (Carada BW size). My concern is to project to this size or up to the 133" HP size I am having my lamp on high. This will use up the lamp faster.

My wife likes the wide black velvet trim of the Carada (I currently have a 92" screen) and wants something like this. How wide is the Pro-Trim for the HP screens? My other concern is the distance from our viewing position to the projector will be about 36" (ceiling mount). I have done the calculator and below is the gain results.

Calculated Error Angle (Degrees): 8.83 8.66 8.01
Estimated Screen Gain: 1.98 1.99 2.05

I could not figure out the offset of the chairs. We will both be about 36" to the left and the right of the projector.

Also will anything else reflect off of the screen? The ambient light will be our kitchen light which is about 10" behind us and the projector. This light bugs me now reflecting into my 60" HDTV. This will only be on when we need something from the kitchen.

I have done the calculator and below is the gain results.

Calculated Error Angle (Degrees): 8.83 8.66 8.01
Estimated Screen Gain: 1.98 1.99 2.05

I could not figure out the offset of the chairs. We will both be about 36" to the left and the right of the projector.

I explained how to do the chairs way back in post #2015 (page 68). Perhaps you missed it? Anyway, it's there.

Since the light goes back to the source on the HP, the light behind you is the one which washes out the most, so that light would have to be off.

I think 3 feet from the pj gets you in the high end of the gain zone. My experience has been that as long as I am within the box (within the lateral borders of the screen) then the gain is fine. If you go beyond the edge of screen, it gets much dimmer. Which I hate.

OK - I did the left chair and it came up with 15.72 degrees and 1.36 gain. The right chair is a little closer and it worked out to be 9.36 degrees and 1.93 gain. Does this mean that the right chair will always have a better picture? This is why I am confused about the chair location.

only brighter, not better.

Buy the screen. You cant judge what any product will do with just numbers.

Does anyone have the answer to the width of the Pro-Trim? I have Jason checking on the cost of the 133" screen.

I keep reading where samples are taped to their existing screens. Does this damage the screen any?

I keep reading where samples are taped to their existing screens. Does this damage the screen any?

Ya don't wanna do that !:eek:

Does anyone have the answer to the width of the Pro-Trim? I have Jason checking on the cost of the 133" screen.

I keep reading where samples are taped to their existing screens. Does this damage the screen any?
Three inches. The height and width of the 133" diagonal 16x9 HP are:

65"x116" (viewing)
71"x122" (including frame)

Full specs are here:

http://www.da-lite.com/products/spec_pdfs/234.pdf

OK - I did the left chair and it came up with 15.72 degrees and 1.36 gain. The right chair is a little closer and it worked out to be 9.36 degrees and 1.93 gain. Does this mean that the right chair will always have a better picture? This is why I am confused about the chair location.

With those results, I assume your PJ is off-centered to the right of screen center? If that is the case, you can minimize the difference in brightness by centering your chairs about the PJ's line of sight to the screen center. If you don't want to do that, then as Tryg points out, there will be a brightness difference. I don't think the brightness difference will be that noticeable, however. My HP still has an acceptable picture from my kitchen sink, which is about 45 degrees off center!

With those results, I assume your PJ is off-centered to the right of screen center? If that is the case, you can minimize the difference in brightness by centering your chairs about the PJ's line of sight to the screen center. If you don't want to do that, then as Tryg points out, there will be a brightness difference. I don't think the brightness difference will be that noticeable, however. My HP still has an acceptable picture from my kitchen sink, which is about 45 degrees off center!

No the PJ is is off centered to the left of the screen center. I measured it wrong. The wall that the screen is on is about 12' wide, but there is a about a 5' 45 degree offset where a fireplace is at to the left of the wall. This makes everything having to be to the right side of the room. The room is about 17' wide overall. Plus the PJ is ceiling mounted and in order to get it down closer to the middle of the screen it needs to be over a table that sits between us. This will keep me from banging my head against the PJ. I have the PJ mounted over the right side of the table being she is shorter then me and could not hit the PJ with her head if she tried to. This is why I calculated my chair about 36" to the left and hers about 24" to the right side of the PJ.

I remeasured everything and the PJ location is actually about 10" to the left of the center of the screen. So the new numbers would be 11.40 degrees and 1.74 for the gain for the left chair and 13.04 degrees and 1.58 gain for the right chair.

That certainly shouldn't be a problem. You probably won't be able to tell the difference. But just in case, call dibs on the bright chair. (JK).

Hey guys, da-lite is telling me that the da-mat 1.1 gain screen is the way to go with my panny 4k in a bat cave...what say you guys? I have a stewart videomatte 200 up right now, so what will i gain by going with the HP or da-mat? I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow.

I remeasured everything and the PJ location is actually about 10" to the left of the center of the screen. So the new numbers would be 11.40 degrees and 1.74 for the gain for the left chair and 13.04 degrees and 1.58 gain for the right chair.

I agree with JHouse. You probably won't be able to see the difference. Get ready to enjoy some fantastic viewing. ;)

Hey guys, da-lite is telling me that the da-mat 1.1 gain screen is the way to go with my panny 4k in a bat cave...what say you guys? I have a stewart videomatte 200 up right now, so what will i gain by going with the HP or da-mat? I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow.

The HP will give you the best across-screen brightness uniformity and the highest brightness for the center seats. The half brightness viewing angle of the HP is 15 degrees either side of the screen perpendicular, which could be an issue if your HT is very wide. The HP is virtually free of visible texture and sparklies. I don't know how the other screens compare on this aspect, so maybe someone else will comment on texture/sparklies.

The da-mat 1.1 will also give you good brightness uniformity and a much wider half brightness viewing angle (if you need that). It will give you a much dimmer picture than the HP for a given PJ light output.

Hey guys, da-lite is telling me that the da-mat 1.1 gain screen is the way to go with my panny 4k in a bat cave...what say you guys? I have a stewart videomatte 200 up right now, so what will i gain by going with the HP or da-mat? I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow.

i have been told "this is what you need". not because it is what i needed, but because it is what 'they" wanted to sell me.

my advice. get your advice from those that are not trying to sell you something.

question on this viewing angle thing ?

when you say "15 degrees" (or whatever). does that mean :
from the center of the screen ?
from the ends of the screen ?

thanx

question on this viewing angle thing ?

when you say "15 degrees" (or whatever). does that mean :
from the center of the screen ?
from the ends of the screen ?

thanx

When I say it, it means to one side of the center of the screen. Who knows what it means when the manufacturer's marketing department says it? :eek:

I agree with JHouse. You probably won't be able to see the difference. Get ready to enjoy some fantastic viewing. ;)

I have Jason pricing up a 133" screen. I have that size on my bare wall now to make sure it is not to big at 17' feet away. Now being the screen is taking up almost all of my wall I need to figure out where to put my SVS sub.

Wonderful! My SVS sub sounds best to me in the front corner. If that position blocks the picture or the view, you can slide the sub back just far enough to fix the blocking issue. It shouldn't take much. /OT

SVS subs....great value and performance IMHO. I have two 2039PC+ that are placed symetrically near the left and right front wall corners in a long wall setup. Quite seamless with my main speakers and as non-directional as I've ever heard.

I have three options for the placement of my SVS 20-39 sub.

First option would be at the right side of the screen right beside my Polk floor mounted speaker. This option would make me reduce my screen size about 20". I also do not know how it would sound right beside my front speaker.

The second option is around the corner to the left side. This would be to the side of a couch, so did not know if the couch would muffle the bass that I love from the sub.

The third option is to my immediate left about 5' from my chair. I am afraid this may kill me when the deep bass kicks in.

I prefer option one myself if the audio is not interferred any with the front speaker and the sub right beside each other. My wife wants the screen as big as possible.

I realize this is a little off topic, but I am trying to nail down what size HP screen to get. Once this is settled then I can start working on my blocking for the ceiling mount and running the cables.

rgathright, I wouldn't be worried about the Polk's nearby positioning at all. If anything, the closer the sub is to the speakers, the higher you can raise xover point without ill effects. I mean, just FYI. I've yet to hear a corner loaded sub that didn't excite modes to such extent as to not make the sub localizable. OTOH, I've learned from Ethan Winer that if you can significantly trap for bass, then you can have the best of all worlds. Corner loading for best efficiency, without fear of maximally excited modes. Efficiency equals less distortion which equals superior SQ. Treating of the space not only allows more freedom of SW placement, but speaker and listener placement too. I understand that most people do not welcome acoustic treatments into their space.

Anyways, put your sub at the listening position. Play some bass heavy stuff, get on your hands and knees, and listen at all three candidates for SW location. Where it sounds best will be the winner.

do you have space RIGHT behind YOUR seat/chair ?

There is no space behind the chairs.

I reduced the size of the projected image on our bare wall smaller to try getting the Sub and my speaker to the right of the screen. It reduced the image from a 133" to a 119" diagonal screen. Plus the image had to be shifted to the left. It looked out of place and small compared to what we have been watching. It looks much better centered on the 12' wall.

I have now moved the Sub to the left of my chair to try this for a while.

Just got my 92" Da-lite model b HP screen installed today. Buddy of mine came over to help hang it. My goodness the difference in picture quality is ridiculous. The image is brighter and drastically clearer. Here is a picture of it with the lights on. You can see the color of the walls that I was projecting onto before this screen. I was close to getting a new bulb (2k hours Sanyo Z4) but don't think I need to now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/oldlostcory/2009-12-26183810.jpg

Only complaint is the smell haha, but i'm sure it will go away and its not to overwelming.

I received a 12" x 12" HP sample from Da-Lite. I taped this sample to our beige wall (using this temporarily to gauge what size screen I want). Surprisingly the colors look very good on just the beige wall, but he sample was too bright and lost a lot of color. I paused it once to gauge what the skin of the person on the screen looked like and you could not tell what it was. It was that bright. I am using my Mits HC6000 on bright mode with about 1500 hours on my lamp.

Is it normal to be so bright? The screen size is 133" and the throw distance is 16'. Sometimes it looked better, but sometimes it was so bright you could not see any colors at all. This is my main concern that it may be to bright.

Hey guys -a few quick questions before I join the HP club :)

Does anyone here have a 119" HP Model C? I'm a little concerned at this size ripples and other screen nasties could be an issue.

Does the Cosmopolitan offer any advantages - other than being electric - over the model C when it comes to maintaining a flat screen surface?

What's the general consensus on the quality control on these cheaper models? I'll be shipping from the US to the UK and having to return the screen for any reason would be quite expensive.

Do Da Lite offer custom sizes/ratios for Model C screens and is there an option for a black case?

Any answers/suggestions will be much appreciated :)

Hey guys -a few quick questions before I join the HP club :)

Does anyone here have a 119" HP Model C? I'm a little concerned at this size ripples and other screen nasties could be an issue.

Does the Cosmopolitan offer any advantages - other than being electric - over the model C when it comes to maintaining a flat screen surface?

What's the general consensus on the quality control on these cheaper models? I'll be shipping from the US to the UK and having to return the screen for any reason would be quite expensive.

Do Da Lite offer custom sizes/ratios for Model C screens and is there an option for a black case?

Any answers/suggestions will be much appreciated :)

Electric does nothing for you in terms of keeping a flatter screen. You can always rip the material out and try to fix it yourself if it doesn't work for you. I've never done that but others here have.

Black casing was about $50 more, IIRC, and mine is much bigger than yours. I didn't even need it really, as I now have curtaining that covers the roller case.

Dalite has a good rep for QC.

I had the 119 HP manual. It was great. I also had the 133" manual. It was also great.

Don't worry about ripples, as the beauty of a HP is you can't see them because of the design of the screen (except you might notice them once in a while on a fast horizontal pan). And if it really did bother you, you could cut the fabric of of the roll and staple it to the wall so that it was a fixed screen. Then just frame it with wood to match your room for a nice effect.

Just want to post again on this thread. Im not sure what happened to my other post raving about this screen.

I finally got my manual highpower, my installer came by last week, and put it in my electric motor. It looks and works wonderful.

I was looking at da-lite electric screens, but by the time they wanted 12 volt trigger, and IR remote control i was looking at a grand.

I already had elunevision electric glass beaded screen, so my installer who does runco and stewart screen installs removed the manual highpower screen attached it to the electric roller and put it in the case, works and looks amazing, no complaints and i saved about 500 dollars. I cant even describe it really.

Its so clear, and bright, its like a giant lcd screen, but with better contrast. It has that lcd clearness and brightness i never thought i would get with a screen, especially the clearness, because your projecting light onto a screen surface, but the highpower did it! Even my wife who never comments watched District nine with me said

"is this the new screen, it looks so bright and clear compared to our old one"

I will never go with another fabric unless something mind blowing comes along.

Now i have an order my 2:35:1 screen (i was running cheap dual electric screens before) which my installer will put in my other electric motor, and then i will be back to my dual screen setup (16:9 and 2:35:1) and i can be finally satisfied with the screen quality!

Never thought a screen could make so much of a difference but it does.

And im also very happy my installer saved me about 500 dollars even after i paid him, installing the manual highpower into another companies electric motor. The manaul in canada came to about 320, and the install was around 180.

That mirrors my experience.

QUESTION: Is having 3 times the light coming to us in the sweet spot the SOLE factor which produces this result? I'm guessing probably yes. But,

Didn't I read that the HP actually has a tiny bit of "reverse hot spotting"? I thought somebody measured a little bit more light coming from from the perimeter than the center? That could explain why we perceive such a uniformly bright image across the entire screen that other screen types don't have.

I received a 12" x 12" HP sample from Da-Lite. I taped this sample to our beige wall (using this temporarily to gauge what size screen I want). Surprisingly the colors look very good on just the beige wall, but he sample was too bright and lost a lot of color. I paused it once to gauge what the skin of the person on the screen looked like and you could not tell what it was. It was that bright. I am using my Mits HC6000 on bright mode with about 1500 hours on my lamp.

Is it normal to be so bright? The screen size is 133" and the throw distance is 16'. Sometimes it looked better, but sometimes it was so bright you could not see any colors at all. This is my main concern that it may be to bright.

I have the HC5500 (similar to your HC6000) and a 92" 16x9 Model C pulldown. I thought the same thing when I looked at the sample compared to my beige wall. The projector needs to be calibrated to the much high gain screen material.

It's difficult to try and calibrate it on a small 12"x12"sample, it will be much easier once you actually get the screen. I am getting ready to purchase a much larger custom sized fixed frame screen from dalite (142" diag) and can't imagine using any other material.

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/Dalite-7.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/Dalite-2.jpg

After calibration to the HP material -

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/DSC_0889.jpg

http://mynikonphotos.com/projector/DSC_0885.jpg

I received a 12" x 12" HP sample from Da-Lite. I taped this sample to our beige wall (using this temporarily to gauge what size screen I want). Surprisingly the colors look very good on just the beige wall, but he sample was too bright and lost a lot of color. I paused it once to gauge what the skin of the person on the screen looked like and you could not tell what it was. It was that bright. I am using my Mits HC6000 on bright mode with about 1500 hours on my lamp.

Is it normal to be so bright? The screen size is 133" and the throw distance is 16'. Sometimes it looked better, but sometimes it was so bright you could not see any colors at all. This is my main concern that it may be to bright.

Looking at the example pictures above, I am reminded that your eye can't really judge/extrapolate from a small sample. I think your brain/eye make the small patch look goofy because your eye is adjusted to the larger area. If you reversed the sizes of the two materials, the smaller one will always look goofy.

In my experience, you don't have to calibrate for a screen. If you do, then your screen is screwed up (adding or subtracting something it shouldn't i.e. not neutral - like projecting on a colored wall). Example, our projectors are "calibrated" at the factory for the best picture (at least some of them are), and when you project it on a neutral screen, it will look right, regardless of the gain. Less gain (or more) affect the overall ft.L but they don't change the color balance or contrast ratio, it's just that the entire range moves one way or the other in total light output, and your iris compensates, so it looks right. I think what is most important is that the entire picture is properly balanced, and darker or lighter, your eye will try to get the most out of it, and all the parts of it will look the same vis a vis one another.

At least this is the way it works in my experience. I'm sure there are bigger words for it.

In my experience, you don't have to calibrate for a screen. If you do, then your screen is screwed up (adding or subtracting something it shouldn't i.e. not neutral - like projecting on a colored wall). Example, our projectors are "calibrated" at the factory for the best picture (at least some of them are), and when you project it on a neutral screen, it will look right, regardless of the gain.

joe I should clarify I was originally testing on a beige wall in those sample photos and had my brightness/colors shifted a bit to compensate.

I agree, the sample is deceiving and throws the eye off trying to compensate for the larger dark area. I was a bit skeptical at first until I actually saw the excellent IQ from the large screen. now there is no turning back.

separate question: Has anyone purchased a custom size screen from Da-lite? I am upgrading my 92" 16x9 Model C for a Cinema Contour with the following dimensions: "70x124" (142" diagonal)

I recall a number of members posting that they would make a seamless screen up to 72" tall.

I lowered the lamp brightness and the sample does not look as bad. So I figured if I went with the HP screen then I would just have to re-calibrate everything. But JHouse now has me wondering to do this or not.

JHouse - do you have a HP screen now? Maybe I need to come look at yours. I am only about 45 minutes from you. I keep telling my wife that what we watch on our Carada screen is bad compared to some of the screen-shots I have been seeing.

zombie10k - your screenshots look fabulous. You may have convinced me right now. What did you use to calibrate the new screen?

ok. another "am i understanding it right " post.

it has been said here that outside 15deg from the center of the screen. is not a quality image. is this correct ?

i checked my layout. and 15deg from the center of the screen. outside of the seat on either side of my centered seat. the image is going to be unacceptible.

this can't be right. but i need to make sure.

ok. another "am i understanding it right " post.

it has been said here that outside 15deg from the center of the screen. is not a quality image. is this correct ?

i checked my layout. and 15deg from the center of the screen. outside of the seat on either side of my centered seat. the image is going to be unacceptible.

this can't be right. but i need to make sure.

It's a quality image no matter where you sit. It's just less bright the further you get from the sweet spot. The gain decreases, not the quality. My projector is in one of the least optimum places in my home theater (in terms of brightness, anyway) - on a high shelf mount. The quality remains the same; the brightness is lower. I do have one or two sparkly elements that I have to be in just the right position to see. I never saw them at all when my other projector was in the "eye level" position.

When my lamp drops enough in intensity, the projector will go back to the old pj's position (dropped down a couple of feet), to restore the brightness. Instant boost, for free.

I don't think the HP material can be judged by a small sample. You just can't get the full effect of a HP screen......without an entire screen. If you are considering going with an expensive HP screen like a Cinema Countour but aren't totally sure, you might want to first consider getting a Model B HP to see if you like the material. The Model B screens are rather inexpensive comparatively.

It's a quality image no matter where you sit. It's just less bright the further you get from the sweet spot. The gain decreases, not the quality. My projector is in one of the least optimum places in my home theater (in terms of brightness, anyway) - on a high shelf mount. The quality remains the same; the brightness is lower. I do have one or two sparkly elements that I have to be in just the right position to see. I never saw them at all when my other projector was in the "eye level" position.

When my lamp drops enough in intensity, the projector will go back to the old pj's position (dropped down a couple of feet), to restore the brightness. Instant boost, for free.

ok, cool. i don't care if my guests get max brightness, as long as the PQ is there.

See my post at the bottom.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931126

High Power retro is better overall than high gain angular because of the even distribution of light reflection from all parts of the screen. At some point out of the cone, though, you can go to negative gain, and that will defeat the purpose of course.

I lowered the lamp brightness and the sample does not look as bad. So I figured if I went with the HP screen then I would just have to re-calibrate everything. But JHouse now has me wondering to do this or not.

JHouse - do you have a HP screen now? Maybe I need to come look at yours. I am only about 45 minutes from you. I keep telling my wife that what we watch on our Carada screen is bad compared to some of the screen-shots I have been seeing.

Yes, I have a Panasonic PT-AE4000U set at "cinema 1" which is the 6500K factory preset. NOTHING wrong with the picture. You don't need to "calibrate" for the High Power.

zombie10k - your screenshots look fabulous. You may have convinced me right now. What did you use to calibrate the new screen?

just my eyes, adjusting brightness/contrast and the various color setting settings to what appeals to me.

I had the brightness cranked way high because I was originally pointing to a medium beige wall. I simply turned it back to a normal setting once I installed the HP screen.

I didn't intend to use the word calibrate out of context, they are minor adjustments not far off the baseline settings.

Oldlostcory:

I have had my manual Model C HP 106" diagonal for 3 years now - I used to leave it down all the time. One time I rolled it up to play around with setting it to a height of 38.5" to see how it would look in a 2.40:1 format. Used the projector lens shift to raise the image a bit to fit. I now have a hook stop mounted on the wall for my 'second' viewing position. I just let it roll up and slip the handle over the hook to hold the screen in that position. Then back down for 1.78:1. Works pretty good!

How the black bars look when playing 2:35 movies....as they would probably be close/on the screen case???? Can you post a picture with a 2:35 movie to see how it looks???

I am interested in this setup but would like to see how the black bars are positioned/looks relative to the screen case, etc....

I may be looking at a 119 diagonal screen...Do you see any concerns with the screen developing waves????

thks......

Thks...

Wow after reading many posts here I am now into this high power screen also. Everyone has been saying matte white or cinewhite are great screens and produce great images. Now I thinking more towards the high power screens for the fact that you can save on bulb life, good for ambient light, just in case you do not feel like watching in the dark all the time and in his review he highly recommends it. These decision are so hard to make. I just do not want an image where I have to squint my eyes due to the brightness.

Is there a big big difference from matte/cine white and high power?

I have a projector on a table just off to the right side of the screen (using lens shift). Would this work??

I have ordered a sample and will be here in a few days. Just wondering if anyone uses lens shift and the hp screen.

For those on the fence. Last night, Sunday Night Football, Christmas tree with white lights in the right rear corner of the room, a fire in the fire place, more Christmas lights on the mantle, 6 can lights on medium, white ceiling --- Fantastic Picture! I had the can lights on so that I could read the Sunday paper. Still can't believe how good a picture I can get with plenty of light on for reading. The screen is incredible when the lights go out as well -- no squinting. By the way, I am projecting with an Epson 8100. Just a great all around screen.

For those on the fence. Last night, Sunday Night Football, Christmas tree with white lights in the right rear corner of the room, a fire in the fire place, more Christmas lights on the mantle, 6 can lights on medium, white ceiling --- Fantastic Picture! I had the can lights on so that I could read the Sunday paper. Still can't believe how good a picture I can get with plenty of light on for reading. The screen is incredible when the lights go out as well -- no squinting. By the way, I am projecting with an Epson 8100. Just a great all around screen.

Badger, thanks for that info. that sounds good. I am getting a AE4000, trying to get the best possible picture, colors, blacks and sharpness.

Based on the info. on this thread the HP does not fit my setup, however, I dusted off my draper m2500 combined with my panny 4k and isco 3L and I'm getting 2.0 gain which works for me. I also don't have any hot spotting when reducing the brightness down. I also think my lens helped out a bunch as well.

I have a projector on a table just off to the right side of the screen (using lens shift). Would this work??

Definitely not recommended. Using lens shift does not alter the fact that the HP will send most of the light back to its source. Unless your viewers are seated just off to the right side of the screen, they will not see much gain.

Of course, it all depends on how far off to the right side. For a quantitative answer use my screen gain calculator linked below.

Definitely not recommended. Using lens shift does not alter the fact that the HP will send most of the light back to its source. Unless your viewers are seated just off to the right side of the screen, they will not see much gain.

Of course, it all depends on how far off to the right side. For a quantitative answer use my screen gain calculator linked below.

Thanks!!

Tell me if I am reading the calculator right. The best place to have a projector placed is centered screen??

I can shelf mount in the center about 12 to 18 inches above my head and get the best out of the hp on center axis?

Thanks!!

Tell me if I am reading the calculator right. The best place to have a projector placed is centered screen??

I can shelf mount in the center about 12 to 18 inches above my head and get the best out of the hp on center axis?

That position would be the HP sunburn mode. :D

Seriously, you'll get great gain with the projector in that position. It's similar to the position I used for my Sharp projector. At 110" with that projector, it was just about perfect. With the Panasonic 4000, it was too bright for my taste, so I moved it up to a high shelf mount, losing much of the gain. (Still a great image, though. No loss of picture quality.) The better choice for me probably would have been to filter the lens, but I'm still looking into setting up a variable filter, so I can let in just the amount of light I want. OTOH, the high shelf mount is perfect for keeping the projector out of the way. I may leave it there. The point is that the HP gives me all sorts of options that other, low-gain screens don't.

Thanks!!

Tell me if I am reading the calculator right. The best place to have a projector placed is centered screen??

I can shelf mount in the center about 12 to 18 inches above my head and get the best out of the hp on center axis?

Just to be clear, you want the lens of the pj centered left-to-right on the screen. For the highest screen gain, you want the lens of the pj at a height as close to your seated eye level as you are comfortable having it. As Joe said, 12 to 18 inches above your head will still give you plenty of gain (more than 2.0 at 12' throw).

This post is just to confirm what I read above.

Which is more important to have for the best PQ? Is it having the projector centered left to right with the screen or the projector being closer (up and down) to the viewing height. I cannot have both.

The projector has to be ceiling mounted. In order to get it down lower it has to be over a table that is between our two chairs, but this will make it off center about 7".

If I centered the projector with the screen then it will have to be over one of the chairs a little and will become a head knocker. This will mean it will have to be about 2' 6" above our viewing position.

But I guess the key question I am asking is which is better or worse. Vertical lens shift or horizontal lens shift. I can get the projector just about centered either way (+-12") with the screen.

rgathright: Without knowing your room limitations it is difficult to understand your pj positioning requirements. What I would suggest is placing the pj lens such that it is centered between your two chairs. Then place it at a height as near your seated eye level as you are comfortable in doing. Depending on space available, you can also position the pj a short distance behind your seats to reduce the fan noise.

For example, in my own room I have the pj centered about 3' behind our two chairs and at a height equal to our seated eye level. It shoots over a low table and between our heads.

Thanks for the response guys.
Now that you have confirmed my setup, now can you tell me what kind of picture to expect. I have the Epson 8100 and using a white matte screen. With one lamp on I will watch in living room mode (second brightest mode) and with no lights on I watch in Theater mode (mid bright mode). With the HP can I expect the brightness of living room mode with more accurate color? Or will I be getting the same bright picture, just in a different mode.Or am I asking too much from the HP.
I will of course go to Theare mode with lights on with the HP.

Thanks!!

FLBoy is right. If you put it between the two primary viewers, each will have the same view as it will be equally off center to each. And remember the light will come back to the projector lens with the highest gain spot there. So you will both share equally. And 7" is nothing. Centering where your eye/head is technically optimum too, but you might want to raise it a foot or two anyway just so you aren't always blocking the picture when you move your head and arms around.

In our temporary setup over the holidays the projector was sitting on the table itself but on the side toward my wife. My wife has the ears of an hawk and never commented about the fan noise. This is something I always look for due to her hearing.

What she enjoyed was the heat blowing out of the projector. She said it felt great blowing on her shoulder and neck.

In the centering of the projector issue I have to plan on the future of when I upgrade to a different projector. The lens of the Mits HC6000 I have now is offset a little over 3". The Panny that I am looking at has the lens directly in the center. Who knows what the future will bring. So I will probably put the projector downrod directly centered with the screen. This way it should work with what ever I get. I will then have to convince the wife to move the chairs and table more to get them centered with the screen and not the other furniture. :rolleyes:

Also we got back to my temporary setup with the 92" Carada screen yesterday (had to go back to work-darn it). I was able to position the HP sample on the screen and it was a lot brighter than the Carada BW screen. So once I get everything in the permanent home installed I will probably go for the HP Cinema Contour Screen. The hot issue between the wife and myself is size now. She wants it as big as possible (133") and I want it a little smaller (119"). I guess my issue is I am got used to the 92" we watch now at just a few feet closer than what will be setup at the permanent home.

She wants it as big as possible (133") and I want it a little smaller (119"). I guess my issue is I am got used to the 92" we watch now at just a few feet closer than what will be setup at the permanent home.

I have a friend who has the 119" HP, which I've watched several times at about the same distance I do from my 110". I prefer his 119" screen to mine, but I can't go any bigger. If I could have a 133" screen, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The bigger the screen, the more immersive it is.

You're one lucky dog that your wife thinks the way she does. I know couples where the wife (and sometimes the husband) thinks a 42" screen is too big and takes over the room. For me, a big screen is a defining characteristic of a "home theater," and the bigger the better. A 42" screen is not home theater to me - it's just "television."

The really amazing thing about the HP is that it makes the larger screen sizes possible for many more people. If I had the space, with my current projector and the HP, I'd have a screen 150" or larger. Now, THAT'S home theater. :D

When I first started talking about getting a 60" Sony HDTV (2003) she could not understand why I would want that. The same thing happened when I started talking about a projector.

Now she never questions what I am upgrading up to.

I may have already convinced the wife that the chairs and table needs to be adjusted to be centered with the screen. So that alignment issue is solved. The ceiling mount and shaft I have is adjustable, so can just about put it any height I want it. Going through the gain calculator the gain for 72" above the floor will be 1.93 and for 60" from the floor it will be 2.01. This is based on the screen center to be 69" above the floor and our viewing height is 37"+-. With the difference being so small I figured we could put it just about anywhere. Once we finally get everything setup I will probably try it out at different heights to see which one we like the best.

If anyone is interested, I am parting with my 119" diagonal Cinema Contour High Power (with Pro Trim) screen

No, I am not abandoning the club, but have reconfigured my room a touch and can now fit a 133" diagonal

Please PM if interested, or I will post here on the classifieds shortly...

I will be able to ship AFTER I receive my new screen, as I will use the freight carton from DaLite to ship the 119"

Thanks

Hi all. I have discussed with the boss and it looks as though curtains will be an option for behind the projector and screen. Based on the height of the projector on a 100" screen, and using the calculator I would get a viewing gain of around 1.85, and around 1.3 at the furtherest seating position (roughly 3.6' either side). My concern is the large side wall, which at this stage needs to be kept white as we will put something on there later on

Specs are:
Seating position = ~10ft wide
Seating distance = ~12.5ft
Throw distance = ~12.5ft
Proj height above viewing = ~2ft

Pics are below with the top view showing the 15° each side.

1. Would the HP be a good choice in this situation?
2. Would going to a 106" cause more issues with reflections?

Any thoughts / comments?

http://i47.tinypic.com/29vyp14.jpg

When I first started talking about getting a 60" Sony HDTV (2003) she could not understand why I would want that. The same thing happened when I started talking about a projector.

Now she never questions what I am upgrading up to.

+1

I haven't gone HP yet, but after the first few nights of watching a 150" HDTV PJ image in our living room she didn't question anymore. :cool:

And now a year later I have carte blanche in the dedicated theater construction decisions. :D

+1

I haven't gone HP yet, but after the first few nights of watching a 150" HDTV PJ image in our living room she didn't question anymore. :cool:

And now a year later I have carte blanche in the dedicated theater construction decisions. :D

So make both of you happy and switch to the HP, at 150" a must? Would seem so.

Joe

1. Would the HP be a good choice in this situation?
2. Would going to a 106" cause more issues with reflections?

Any thoughts / comments?

I think it would be a great choice. It will be especially helpful in rejecting light from the large white side wall. I wouldn't fear going to a 106". If you do get more reflected light than you want on the left side, you can always hang something dark on the white wall near the screen.

I'm ordering a dalite Model C screen (high power), and trying to figure out the minimum distance needed from the floor needed to roll it up. I'm hoping to get to as close to the floor as possible to maximize my vertical screen space... Anyone know?

I'm ordering a dalite Model C screen (high power), and trying to figure out the minimum distance needed from the floor needed to roll it up. I'm hoping to get to as close to the floor as possible to maximize my vertical screen space... Anyone know?


I think 18" would be adequate, you don't have to yank it too far, and if you do, you can pull it forward. I had to do that in my last set up where the bottom of the screen was about 6" from the cabinet. Mine is two feet off the floor, but I removed it from the roller and stapled it to the wall.

I think 18" would be adequate, you don't have to yank it too far, and if you do, you can pull it forward. I had to do that in my last set up where the bottom of the screen was about 6" from the cabinet. Mine is two feet off the floor, but I removed it from the roller and stapled it to the wall.

OK, sounds like I need at last six inches from floor to bottom of screen material! Thanks.

I think it would be a great choice. It will be especially helpful in rejecting light from the large white side wall. I wouldn't fear going to a 106". If you do get more reflected light than you want on the left side, you can always hang something dark on the white wall near the screen.

Thanks FLBoy. So would you expect the white side wall to light up less using a HP over BOC, or would the light from wall just have less impact on the screen?

Thanks FLBoy. So would you expect the white side wall to light up less using a HP over BOC, or would the light from wall just have less impact on the screen?

Both. The narrow viewing cone works in both directions. The screen lights the wall less, and any light that does make it to the wall is largely rejected by the screen, because it is way off-axis from the viewers.

I am looking into getting the Panny AE4000 and a 110" Da-Lite HP screen.

What is the difference between these three besides price? Will the PQ be the same?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318606-REG/Da_Lite_94357_94357_Advantage_Manual_Projection.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318613-REG/Da_Lite_94362_94362_Model_C_Manual.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318623-REG/Da_Lite_94368_94368_Model_C_Manual.html

I am looking into getting the Panny AE4000 and a 110" Da-Lite HP screen.

What is the difference between these three besides price? Will the PQ be the same?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318606-REG/Da_Lite_94357_94357_Advantage_Manual_Projection.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318613-REG/Da_Lite_94362_94362_Model_C_Manual.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318623-REG/Da_Lite_94368_94368_Model_C_Manual.html

It's actually confusing. Two of them seem to have CSR, which allows you to let go after the screen is going up and it won't bang into the case. The other one requires you to hold on about 1 second longer to prevent that. I have had both. No big deal to me.

Has anyone gotten these pull down screens just for the screen and used them with a frame of some type? I know this is more of a DIY question, but those guys go nuts when you try to use a bought screen. I assume the screen material is all the same.

Has anyone gotten these pull down screens just for the screen and used them with a frame of some type? I know this is more of a DIY question, but those guys go nuts when you try to use a bought screen. I assume the screen material is all the same.

i have been told many have done that. and i may do it myself.

I just got a new projector (an Epson 9500UDB) and have been forced to go from a shelf mount (about 50" off the floor) to a wall mount (81" off the floor). The shelf mount was actually on a tall stand that was blocking passage and my wife finally forced the change (after she learned that the Epson came with a wall mount). I have been using a 92" diagonal HP screen (Model C, CSR) with my previous setup to good effect, but was not so thrilled at the dropoff at viewing angles outside the cone, which for me was the seats to the left and right of center. I own three rather large Ekornes Stressless chairs that are very comfortable, but take up a ton of room.

I'm still using the HP screen and although the gain is down, I seem to notice less light fall off from the left and right screen than before, which is a good thing.

My question is: should I switch to a standard matte white screen for the somewhat increased viewing angles/brightness uniformity, or given my setup, will I continue to enjoy the benefits of the HP screen with the exception of the increased brightness? I ran through the gain calculator and with my setup, gain varies left to right from 1.2 at the edges to 1.35 dead center.

My question is: should I switch to a standard matte white screen for the somewhat increased viewing angles/brightness uniformity, or given my setup, will I continue to enjoy the benefits of the HP screen with the exception of the increased brightness? I ran through the gain calculator and with my setup, gain varies left to right from 1.2 at the edges to 1.35 dead center.

I would keep the screen. It's still giving you freedom from waves, excellent across-screen brightness uniformity from any viewing position, rejection of off-axis ambient light, virtually invisible texture, and some gain. What's not to like?

Your screen is small enough that a 1.0 matte white the same size would also be bright enough, but it would not have all of the advantages listed above, and it will cost you $$ to trade now.

That's what I'm thinking. I was also able to choose Eco mode and got similar brightness to the matte white screen using normal.

EDITED: I'm interested in doing a 134" wide, 143" diagonal, 57" high 2.35 HP screen with the Panasonic 4000. I can table mount it 1-2' offset from the center of the screen.

Sitting distance is 13', eyeballs will be about 40" above the floor, screen top would be 7'3" off the floor, screen bottom 30" off the floor, center of screen would be 58" off the floor. I can lower the screen 6" or more if it would make a difference. Projector will be about 16' from the screen about 3' behind seating.

Will this setup work well with the 1-2' projector offset and how high should the projector sit to clear viewers heads?

Thank you.

My experience is that the brightness drops way down. You will not get anywhere near the potential gain, which is this screen's biggest selling point IMO. Do an online chat with Da-Lite and ask their opinion.

Big Picture: You can use my screen gain calculator (linked below) to get a quantitative answer, but I can tell you now that if your PJ is offset horizontally from your seating, the viewer closest to the PJ beam will have the highest gain. One way around this would be to offset your seating as well, such that the viewers are centered below the PJ beam.

As to the PJ height to clear your viewers' heads, you can draw a side view of your theater. You want a straight line from the bottom of the PJ lens to the bottom of the screen's viewing area to just clear the top of the tallest viewer's head. You can either do a scale drawing or, if you remember your trig, do a calculation to get the answer.

I think your screen is too high. For viewing comfort the rule of thumb is 1/3 of the screen below eye level and 2/3 above eye level. That would place your 57" high screen bottom at 21" instead of 30". This is not a hard and fast rule, so if your preference is 30", go ahead and do it. :)

Big Picture:

You want a straight line from the bottom of the PJ lens to the bottom of the screen's viewing area to just clear the top of the tallest viewer's head.

I think your screen is too high. For viewing comfort the rule of thumb is 1/3 of the screen below eye level and 2/3 above eye level. That would place your 57" high screen bottom at 21" instead of 30". This is not a hard and fast rule, so if your preference is 30", go ahead and do it. :)

This very confusing at this point.

If my screen bottom is 21" from the floor (which I would like) and my viewers seated heads are 45" high, now high from the floor does the projector lens need to be and how do you determine that and how do you make sure you're within the ideal 30 horizontal degree cone?

I can use graph paper to see these angles but how do you determine where the range of good high gain viewing is and is it really that critical?

If the vertical angle from the projector lens to the bottom of the screen exceeds 15 degrees are you losing the value of the HP screen?

Will having my projector lens 12-24' off center on a 134" wide screen really appreciably diminish the center viewing position on this size screen?

My seating is 13' back from screen and projector is 16' back from screen.

A lot of people are talking about table mounting their projectors with HP screens yet table tops are around 30" high, how are they clearing viewers heads in this case?

So many questions, so much confusion, sorry...

I don't see your screen gain calculator?

Thank you for your help.

This very confusing at this point.

If my screen bottom is 21" from the floor (which I would like) and my viewers seated heads are 45" high, now high from the floor does the projector lens need to be and how do you determine that and how do you make sure you're within the ideal 30 degree cone?

Seating is 13' back from screen and projector is 16' back from screen.

I don't see your screen gain calculator?

Thank you for your help.

I responded in the other thread. Make a scaled drawing.

Big Picture: Do you see the words "All Screen Gain Calculator" in my signature? That is a link to my screen gain calculator. Click on it to go to my calculator thread. It will answer all your questions about screen gain if you will learn how to use it. It is already set up for the HP.

If your screen bottom is 21" from the floor and your viewers' seated heads are 45" high, then your PJ lens bottom needs to be at least 51" above the floor if you are shooting from behind a viewer whose head is in the way. I calculated this; you can also use a scale drawing if math isn't your forte. Alternatively, you can split the viewers far enough apart in the middle to shoot between them. That's what people do who have eye-level projectors.

Hope this helps.

Big Picture: Do you see the words "All Screen Gain Calculator" in my signature? That is a link to my screen gain calculator. Click on it to go to my calculator thread. It will answer all your questions about screen gain if you will learn how to use it. It is already set up for the HP.

If your screen bottom is 21" from the floor and your viewers' seated heads are 45" high, then your PJ lens bottom needs to be at least 51" above the floor if you are shooting from behind a viewer whose head is in the way. I calculated this; you can also use a scale drawing if math isn't your forte. Alternatively, you can split the viewers far enough apart in the middle to shoot between them. That's what people do who have eye-level projectors.

Hope this helps.

FL, thank you for your assistance.

I have the projector on hand now.

Can I simulate what you are talking about with the projector projecting on the wall without a screen. i.e put a 21" line on the wall from the floor and locate the projector 51" from the floor to verify that the light beam from the projector clears the heads in the seating area?

With the screen bottom at 21" the top of the screen will be at 78".

If this test is successful does it mean that I will get good results with the 134" wide HP for sure when the projector is mounted 51" from the floor?

FL, thank you for your assistance.

I have the projector on hand now.

Can I simulate what you are talking about with the projector projecting on the wall without a screen. i.e put a 21" line on the wall from the floor and locate the projector 51" from the floor to verify that the light beam from the projector clears the heads in the seating area?

If this test is successful does it mean that I will get good results with the HP for sure?

Yes. Absolutely. I also replied in the other thread again.

can i get some shipping examples from someone ?
i ordered today. and they said by friday.
how are they doing these days ?

thanx

What did you order and from whom.. I ordered a basic Picture King tripod with HP fabric from AVS, it was drop shipped from Da-lite and arrived in 3 days via UPS. Now my samples showed up 4 days la ter and had been ordered over a week earlier they came USPS. My second custom replacement screen was sent by DB Shenker and took about 4 days and required delivery be scheduled.


I liked the HP fabric in the sample pack much better than what they used on the screen. If there is no official explanation from Da-lite to it's vendors and to the public I will start a new thread Thursday or Friday documenting my purchase and experience with DA-lite. Tryg said he would give them a call, and I asked the Da-lite sales manager Damien Brunetto to call AVS and explain to them why they are selling 2 different fabrics with different specs and calling it the same. Jason form AVS said he will contact DA-lite if he does not hear from the m soon. Hopefully this will get out in the open today or tomorrow.

What did you order and from whom.. I ordered a basic Picture King tripod with HP fabric from AVS, it was drop shipped from Da-lite and arrived in 3 days via UPS. Now my samples showed up 4 days la ter and had been ordered over a week earlier they came USPS. My second custom replacement screen was sent by DB Shenker and took about 4 days and required delivery be scheduled.


I liked the HP fabric in the sample pack much better than what they used on the screen. If there is no official explanation from Da-lite to it's vendors and to the public I will start a new thread Thursday or Friday documenting my purchase and experience with DA-lite. Tryg said he would give them a call, and I asked the Da-lite sales manager Damien Brunetto to call AVS and explain to them why they are selling 2 different fabrics with different specs and calling it the same. Jason form AVS said he will contact DA-lite if he does not hear from the m soon. Hopefully this will get out in the open today or tomorrow.

How is it different?

I'm close to ordering a HP screen too, what is the difference in the two fabrics?

Thank you.

What did you order and from whom.. I ordered a basic Picture King tripod with HP fabric from AVS, it was drop shipped from Da-lite and arrived in 3 days via UPS. They have a Wide Power fabric that they use on their InstaTheater with good gain but a wider viewing angle than the HP. It's a much lighter material. Perhaps that is what they sent you.

I would like the manufacture to explain. If they don't feel the need to explain why they change their product without telling anyone, then I will post all the info and photos I have. I don't want to rock the boat, the new stuff is good, and I understand that progress moves on.. but specs get updated and published before product is shipped.. I am not being a nit pick.. my wife don't want the new stuff, she wants the old stuff so the new fabric screen is going back. Da-lite how about an official statement on what you your plans for the High Power Fabric are and why the changes were made. And fire the nitwit that sends out samples that don't match what you are selling..

They have a Wide Power fabric that they use on their InstaTheater with good gain but a wider viewing angle than the HP. It's a much lighter material. Perhaps that is what they sent you.

Nope I have the full packet of fabric samples and this is not one of them. It has been verified there are 2 hp fabrics and one is being phased out .. now we wait to see what Da-lite says.. or if these entries just vanish..

The new stuff is good just not as bright in the cone and a bit brighter outside the cone. My guess is this is cost savings for da-lite lets wait and see what they say

Nope I have the full packet of fabric samples and this is not one of them. It has been verified there are 2 hp fabrics and one is being phased out .. now we wait to see what Da-lite says.. or if this these entries just vanish..Bummer. I hope you end up with what you want.

Well, this is an interesting development. I'd like to learn more about what it means. Any additional information and/or links would be appreciated.

I would like Da-lite to tell us. I would like Da-lite to tell their vendors. Just sit still and see what they have to say, they (Da-lite Sales) are well aware of this thread. I will be happy to start a new tread and show you the differences in the to fabrics but I am still waiting for a GOOD and official statement from Da-lite as to why the change and why they are selling both products without the proper documentation to differentiate them. Never mind sending out samples that don't match the product.

I just "chatted" with Chris over at Da-Lite and he says the HP fabric is the same as it's always been. When I mentioned this thread he said people say all kinds of things on the net. Not sure he's the official spokesperson, but that's what CS is saying over at Da-Lite.

Will post the photos and the Invoice that states to use older HP fabric to match the sample that the customer has been comparing to the new HP screen. I love my HP screen I am keeping the screen with the Old Fabric and returning what I was sent the first time. The pictures don't lie.. but for now I feel the Da-lite is lying. All screens that come with HP fabric link to the same spec of 2.8 gain.

I am interested also. I have a sample of HP coming in the next few days. The viewing angle is what I will be testing, moving it to certain sides of my current screen. I would HOPE that if I decided to go with the HP that I would get the EXACT screen as the sample material.

I really didn't want to rock the boat and have been working privately behind the scenes with Jason for AVS and some other members. I was really hoping there would have been some announcement as a sticky at that top of the forum to denote what is going on with the HP line of fabric. Lets all just sit tight and see if what they have to say.

It has been verified there are 2 hp fabrics and one is being phased out ..

The new stuff is good just not as bright in the cone and a bit brighter outside the cone. My guess is this is cost savings for da-lite lets wait and see what they say

This may explain why Evan Powell's review sucked. He may have been given the new stuff. Just speculating. But that would explain a lot. Tryg might be able to get to the bottom of this.

OFFICIAL NEWS:

I have talked with Da-Lite. They say they are, or have changed, their manufacturing process but are uncertain at this point if the fabrics specifications have changed. If the specificatioins have or do change from the original material they will let us know.

It will still be retroreflective and high gain. I gathered from our conversation the new manufacturing process will get more consistent results.

I'll let you know more when information is available!

I'm starting a new rumor. If you have one of the older screens it's worth a fortune...like a "Stradivarius" :)

Yes. Absolutely. I also replied in the other thread again.

One other question is now bugging me now and that is: Once the projected beam is properly lined up with the bottom of the screen does it automatically line up with the top of the screen, I do understand that the light beam is not at an angle coming off the top of the lens but is flat?

Also when flipping the projector over (as in a ceiling mount) the projected beam also flips over how does this negatively affect use of a HP screen?

Thank you.

I wonder what version my sample is that I just got. Is there a way to tell which is which. The back of my sample is black (I think-it is dark).

One other question is now bugging me now and that is: Once the projected beam is properly lined up with the bottom of the screen does it automatically line up with the top of the screen, I do understand that the light beam is not at an angle coming off the top of the lens but is flat?

Also when flipping the projector over (as in a ceiling mount) the projected beam also flips over how does this negatively affect use of a HP screen?

Thank you.

It manually adjusts for that. It will be all straight and square if the projector is square with the screen, after you get it adjusted. It's easy. And inverting it is irrelevant. Works the same either way.

I wonder what version my sample is that I just got. Is there a way to tell which is which. The back of my sample is black (I think-it is dark).

I have posted my story along with the photos I think the photos will be able to answer your questions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17854754#post17854754

One other question is now bugging me now and that is: Once the projected beam is properly lined up with the bottom of the screen does it automatically line up with the top of the screen, I do understand that the light beam is not at an angle coming off the top of the lens but is flat?

Also when flipping the projector over (as in a ceiling mount) the projected beam also flips over how does this negatively affect use of a HP screen?

Thank you.

As long as you keep the front of the pj lens parallel to the screen and use horizontal lens shift to adjust out any horizontal offset of the pj, you will be fine. You can expect to have to fine tune the pj's position, rotationally speaking, during installation to make sure the lens front is perfectly parallel to the screen. If it is not, the picture will keystone, meaning that one side will be slightly larger than the other, thereby making the top and bottom of the picture unlevel. Get the keystoning corrected first; then center the picture horizontally using the horizontal lens shift.

Flipping the pj over has no effect on the use of the HP screen. The gain will always be highest for viewers near the PJ lens.

ETA- JHouse, I see I have to be faster than a speeding bullet to beat your response. :D

I have posted my story along with the photos I think the photos will be able to answer your questions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17854754#post17854754

Thanks for providing those photos. From what I'm seeing, the new fabric might not have enough gain to give me satisfactory brightness with an aging lamp on my Sharp XV-Z20000. DaLite might be miscalculating big time, if they intend to discontinue the old HP fabric. There are boat loads of people out there who don't give a mouse's backside about the narrow viewing cone, but who need the brightness the classic HP provides. I smell a "new Coke" type mistake brewing. I doubt this will stand once the outcries begin.

I'm being told the change affects the material used for manual screens, not fixed screens. Fixed screens have the same formulation. I'm asking for more detail, but so far have not heard any more.

Perhaps they were having a problem with the original coating flaking off the roller screens?

Gah! I was just about to purchase an HP screen and am now undecided.

I'm in the middle of an online chat with an DaLite site operator btw and they said the HP material is going to 2.4 gain.

Gah! I was just about to purchase an HP screen and am now undecided.

I'm in the middle of an online chat with an DaLite site operator btw and they said the HP material is going to 2.4 gain.

Ask them if that applies to the fixed frame material as well, or manual screens only...

They stopped answering questions on the HP material - 'new info. will be on the site once finalised'.

Does anyone know where I can get a 119" model C with the 'older' material. This may be a cunning ploy by DaLite to get those on the fence ordering quickly! Either way, I want to order now.

Please nobody panic :eek:

Even if the "new" high power is rated at 2.4 or 2.5 gain that doesn't mean it's inferior. Chances are it will actually work for more people!

Remember you cant create light, so if the gain gets reduced it will likely produce a less extreme viewing cone (larger). This would be a good thing for those that complain the falloff outside "optimal" viewing is to great.

Looking forward to seeing the new material!

My concern would be if DaLite discontinued the old HP. A .4 gain decrease might be enough to prevent some people from getting the brightness they need. If they make both and give customers a choice, it's all good, but they need to sort that out fast, and stop shipping the new formula as if it were the old. It's bad PR, and not fair to people who are ordering now.

my concern would be if dalite discontinued the old hp. A .4 gain decrease might be enough to prevent some people from getting the brightness they need. If they make both and give customers a choice, it's all good, but they need to sort that out fast, and stop shipping the new formula as if it were the old. It's bad pr, and not fair to people who are ordering now.

+1

Agreed. It's more the fact of not knowing what you'll get if ordering now that bugs me. I'm fine with the narrow cone and am going for one of these screens to get as bright/large an image as possible.

Even if the "new" high power is rated at 2.4 or 2.5 gain that doesn't mean it's inferior. Chances are it will actually work for more people!

Remember you cant create light, so if the gain gets reduced it will likely produce a less extreme viewing cone (larger). This would be a good thing for those that complain the falloff outside "optimal" viewing is to great.

Right.

My setup is such that I'm getting about 1.6 gain, so I might actually come out ahead.

Presumably the off-axis ambient light rejection will decrease in proportion to the gain, but we're only talking a 14% difference.

I wonder if Dalite is fudging the new spec, as that shouldn't look as different as airscapes said.

Thanks for providing those photos. From what I'm seeing, the new fabric might not have enough gain to give me satisfactory brightness with an aging lamp on my Sharp XV-Z20000. DaLite might be miscalculating big time, if they intend to discontinue the old HP fabric. There are boat loads of people out there who don't give a mouse's backside about the narrow viewing cone, but who need the brightness the classic HP provides. I smell a "new Coke" type mistake brewing. I doubt this will stand once the outcries begin.

That would be soooooooo stupid.

I'm being told the change affects the material used for manual screens, not fixed screens. Fixed screens have the same formulation. I'm asking for more detail, but so far have not heard any more.

Well that would now certainly justify the higher cost of the fixed screens. This is so weird. I hope it is just a bunch of misinformation. But Evan Powell's review really threw me off.

I hope the difference is relatively trivial, and it really is an improvement, because now people searching here about the High Power could possibly be misled by all the existing posts, if they don't catch the date of the changeover. I had that same problem looking for speakers. Read a bunch of stuff and got excited and was half way through an order when I accidentally discovered the company had gone out of business and they were taking money and keeping it.

I really wanted an official story from Da-lite in public rather than this type of thing but it was driving me nuts sitting here know that folks are buying based on something they most likely not end up getting. The Manager of Sales told me ALL models will have this and I did say (phone conversation) manual, electric and fixed.. the answer was yes. But hey, he could have just been some guy the receptionist put on when I said I wanted to speak to the CEO..

My question to my Da-Lite contact (a VP)

"Ok, so the manual is a little lower (I heard 2.4) but the fixed screens remain at the original 2.8?"

The answer:

"Yes."

My question to your contact is wtf were they thinking not documenting the changes before shipping product and not updating samples well before shipping product. The new screen looks great but it is not what is documented.. this is bad business..

My question to your contact is wtf were they thinking not documenting the changes before shipping product and not updating samples well before shipping product. The new screen looks great but it is not what is documented.. this is bad business..

Now, if you think I ask wtf to my contact I would still have a contact? :)

It is CES week, so maybe the announcement is forthcoming and production got ahead of the PR...

Can the screen material be bought by itself?

Can the screen material be bought by itself?

No. People buy a cheap pull-down, like the model C, I believe, and then cut the material out.

well, isn't this an INTERESTING turn of events. the very day AFTER ordering my 119" manual C HP.

but, from what i can gather. this may not be a bad thing, for me.

i will post my review/impressions after setting up and using mine.
HOPEFULLY this weekend, though i am not holding my breath.

well, isn't this an INTERESTING turn of events. the very day AFTER ordering my 119" manual C HP.

but, from what i can gather. this may not be a bad thing, for me.

i will post my review/impressions after setting up and using mine.
HOPEFULLY this weekend, though i am not holding my breath.

You will be fine, what will this be replacing? I am sure you will be very happy.

You will be fine, what will this be replacing? I am sure you will be very happy.

a DIY 4x8'. that looks pretty darned good. here is a pic. that is not nearly as good as it really is. i nearly wet myself when this come on.

SPEED RACER. eye candy to the max. before i did any calibration to my ViewSonic Pro8100.

idk what my diy gain is. i understand it is the 1.4 range. i have some samples coming from da-lite. i will use these to get a better idea.

"But Evan Powell's review really threw me off."

That review is pretty lame.

Besides not being able to imagine how he saw what he said he saw, he didn't even mention the HP's many noteworthy characteristics besides gain.

I got this response from Da-Lite today:

'Thank you for the e-mail. I was told yesterday that there are two versions. The new version will have a 2.4 gain (old had 2.8). The 2.4 version will come standard on tripods, manual and electric screens. The 2.8 gain will still come standard on the fixed frame screens. You can still get the 2.8 gain on any of the tripods, manuals or electrics. You will just have to line note on the order "use 2.8 gain high power surface". I don't have all the information about the new surface, but it looks like we will be able to go over 8' in height with the 2.4 gain.'

Looks like we may have a choice, which is always nice :)

Wonder when they were going to tell us? Got a boat load of folks buying screens that have specs that say 2.8 and receiving 2.4 seems like every customer that received the new formula when customer service reps and website say 2.8 should receive new screens with the fabric they ordered or a discount since you know this new stuff is cheaper to make..just look at it! Funny website still says 2.8 for picture king with HP

I just ordered a Carada BW 1.4 gain 110" screen. Is 1.4 considered high gain or medium gain if there is such a thing?

I just ordered a Carada BW 1.4 gain 110" screen. Is 1.4 considered high gain or medium gain if there is such a thing?

No expert here but I think that is and angular reflective screen the HP is a retro reflective. There is a thread explaining the difference between the 2 types

I got this response from Da-Lite today:

'Thank you for the e-mail. I was told yesterday that there are two versions. The new version will have a 2.4 gain (old had 2.8). The 2.4 version will come standard on tripods, manual and electric screens. The 2.8 gain will still come standard on the fixed frame screens. You can still get the 2.8 gain on any of the tripods, manuals or electrics. You will just have to line note on the order "use 2.8 gain high power surface". I don't have all the information about the new surface, but it looks like we will be able to go over 8' in height with the 2.4 gain.'

Looks like we may have a choice, which is always nice :)

That is fantastic news.

"But Evan Powell's review really threw me off."

That review is pretty lame.

Besides not being able to imagine how he saw what he said he saw, he didn't even mention the HP's many noteworthy characteristics besides gain.

That's what I thought too. And for them, that was out of character for him. Maybe his usual viewing position is way off to the side.:D

No expert here but I think that is and angular reflective screen the HP is a retro reflective. There is a thread explaining the difference between the 2 types

Yea I read about that. I thought that angular and retro depended upon where you place your projector. I don't know which one 1.4 gain is though. Pics below.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x255/uptown193/retro.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x255/uptown193/angular.jpg

Cool diagram. It would be neat if you could make one of these with dimension readouts on it and that could be altered by clicking and dragging the positions of the viewer, projector and screen. Talk about making things simple!

In the future proofing and planing of setting up my permanent home this now has me wondering if I may want a DLP projector instead of a LCD one. I currently have a Mits HC6000 LCD projector. So I have been looking at a HP screen due to my current projector is low on the brightness end. The first thing I will have to check is to see if the RBE bothers me or my wife.

Are the high powered DLP projectors to bright for the HP screens?

In the future proofing and planing of setting up my permanent home this now has me wondering if I may want a DLP projector instead of a LCD one. I currently have a Mits HC6000 LCD projector. So I have been looking at a HP screen due to my current projector is low on the brightness end. The first thing I will have to check is to see if the RBE bothers me or my wife.

Are the high powered DLP projectors to bright for the HP screens?

I would be more concerned with placement issues. To get the most out of the HP the projector needs to be at near eye level which is probably a self mount behind your heads. I think lens shift is a very important option to achieve this setup and most lower end DLPs don't have this. My DLP is table mounted in front of us. I have a real small screen with my DLP on low and iris closed and in the hot seat (Center behind projector ) using the OLD HP fabric it is as bright as the Sony CRT next to it.. move to the side seats and it is bright but not like the sweet spot! I think this would be better if it was shelf mounted at eye level shooting between the center seats.. someday in a new home with a real HT room... :(

My setup will be that the projector will be ceiling mounted and about 2' 6" above our viewing height. It is being setup over a table that is between our two chairs which are about 3' to each side. It will be centered with the screen horizontal and vertically. I did the gain calculators and it works out for a gain of around 1.8>1.9.

I think he's telling you that DLP projectors need to be either at the bottom or top of the screen and the location has to be accommodated because of the typical lack of lens shift. That probably isn't that big of a deal for the HP, especially the new material, but as far as set up, it sure is a pain in the butt. You set your projector up and turn it on and focus on the wall and that's where the screen has to go, no adjustments.

The entire question concerning DLP may be moot if we are affected by RBE. I need to find a store somewhere in Houston to look at some DLP projectors setups.

I think he's telling you that DLP projectors need to be either at the bottom or top of the screen and the location has to be accommodated because of the typical lack of lens shift. That probably isn't that big of a deal for the HP, especially the new material, but as far as set up, it sure is a pain in the butt. You set your projector up and turn it on and focus on the wall and that's where the screen has to go, no adjustments.

That's for the low end DLPs. Higher end DLP projectors usually have lens shift, although it's just vertical. I don't know of any that offer horizontal lens shift. (Not sure about the mega-expensive DLP projectors.)

The entire question concerning DLP may be moot if we are affected by RBE. I need to find a store somewhere in Houston to look at some DLP projectors setups.

You'll want to give yourself a bit of time to adjust to DLP. Some people never see RBE, but some (like me) adjust to it pretty quickly - to the point that it doesn't bother me at all with high speed color wheels. A high speed color wheel does help (at least 4x, preferably 5x or even 6x). A small percentage of people never adjust. Watch as long as you can before you buy.

You'll want to give yourself a bit of time to adjust to DLP. Some people never see RBE, but some (like me) adjust to it pretty quickly - to the point that it doesn't bother me at all with high speed color wheels. A high speed color wheel does help (at least 4x, preferably 5x or even 6x). A small percentage of people never adjust. Watch as long as you can before you buy.

VERY GOOD ADVICE. PM me if you want more info.

The new BenQ W6000 has both vertical and horizontal lens shift.

Joe

i now have my HP 2.8. i am not good at writing, so this will be basic.


first vid is to give an idea of what the off axis view is of the da-lite hp 2.8 screen. as you can see, the gain does drop off, but it is still plenty viewable by everyone in the room. top screen is the HP. bottom is my DIY S-I-L-V-E-R over thrifty white board. 119" 16:9 HP manual. DIY is 4'x8'.

samples are : matte white - high contrast matte white - video spectra 1.5 - the new Da-Lite high power 2.4 material.

it is very interesting how the gains change as the viewing angle changes.
the "cone", its pretty narrow. basicly, drill a hole in your skull and project through that for the most gain. next best is to wear the pj as a hat. within 1' it drops off quicky, then steadies out, but slowly drops as you go to the side. again, i really see nothing to prevent a side viewer from seeing well(enough ?)

this vid is not meant to be a definitive & scientific overview. it is just a 'basic" look at what to expect. as always, YMMV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabVeI5HfSA
this one, well, there it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaLWeV1Qkdo


here are some pics for the bandwidth challenged. sorry for the poor quality, i just couldn't hold steady enough. but they do give an idea of how the gains change with viewing angle. note that pic2 is seated, and pic3 is just under the lense, about 2 1/2' above my head.

shipping was fast, 5 days. the boxing was pretty sturdy, and undamaged, sept the end was bumped a little. no dents otherwise. which makes me wonder how it got that dent in it :confused:. had to be before it was boxed. did i get a second, or a return ? idk. also. right by the little handle that you use the raise lower, right on the viewable surface, there is a scuff mark, about 1 1/2" x 1/16" total. but it is hard to see, and has no impact on the image.

my kitty inspecting the packaging. a pic of the mounting points. and some more pics.

more pics. everyone likes pics.

last pic is with 3 60 watts hallogens pointing kinda right at the screen.
projector is on econo.

i now have my HP 2.8. i am not good at writing, so this will be basic.


first vid is to give an idea of what the off axis view is of the da-lite hp 2.8 screen. as you can see, the gain does drop off, but it is still plenty viewable by everyone in the room. top screen is the HP. bottom is my DIY S-I-L-V-E-R over thrifty white board. 119" 16:9 HP manual. DIY is 4'x8'.

samples are : matte white - high contrast matte white - video spectra 1.5 - the new Da-Lite high power 2.4 material.

it is very interesting how the gains change as the viewing angle changes.
the "cone", its pretty narrow. basicly, drill a hole in your skull and project through that for the most gain. next best is to wear the pj as a hat. within 1' it drops off quicky, then steadies out, but slowly drops as you go to the side. again, i really see nothing to prevent a side viewer from seeing well(enough ?)



That vid demonstrates pretty well why I couldn't live with the HP screen, as the changing of the image with viewer position drove me crazy. YMMV of course. Seems most people are ok with it.

Thanks for the videos and all the pic's.

I didn't know you could get the cases in black; did you have to ask for that special?

I didn't know you could get the cases in black; did you have to ask for that special?

yep. $20. i think they have a bunch of options.

how did the 2.4 compare to the 2.8 in your eyes. Hard to tell in vid and pics with small sample. looks almost the same to me. Just curious with your comment from the other thread .

Originally Posted by Fabricator
oh. from what i have seen. i WOULD NOT tell someone to NOT get the 2.4 .

i now have my HP 2.8. i am not good at writing, so this will be basic.


first vid is to give an idea of what the off axis view is of the da-lite hp 2.8 screen. as you can see, the gain does drop off, but it is still plenty viewable by everyone in the room. top screen is the HP. bottom is my DIY S-I-L-V-E-R over thrifty white board. 119" 16:9 HP manual. DIY is 4'x8'.

samples are : matte white - high contrast matte white - video spectra 1.5 - the new Da-Lite high power 2.4 material.

it is very interesting how the gains change as the viewing angle changes.
the "cone", its pretty narrow. basicly, drill a hole in your skull and project through that for the most gain. next best is to wear the pj as a hat. within 1' it drops off quicky, then steadies out, but slowly drops as you go to the side. again, i really see nothing to prevent a side viewer from seeing well(enough ?)

this vid is not meant to be a definitive & scientific overview. it is just a 'basic" look at what to expect. as always, YMMV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabVeI5HfSA
this one, well, there it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaLWeV1Qkdo


here are some pics for the bandwidth challenged. sorry for the poor quality, i just couldn't hold steady enough. but they do give an idea of how the gains change with viewing angle. note that pic2 is seated, and pic3 is just under the lense, about 2 1/2' above my head.

I see the dropoff of brightness, but I expected it to be almost unwatchable at an extreme angle when just the opposite is true. If anything the center position looks inaccurately bright on the main screen itself. :eek: I could see the dropoff on the samples, but the PQ on the full 2.8 screen video from extreme angles looked excellent and in a sense more accurate than the overly bright center seat image. It makes me think in my room I would be better with 2.4. ?? :confused:

I see the dropoff of brightness, but I expected it to be almost unwatchable at an extreme angle when just the opposite is true. If anything the center position looks inaccurately bright on the main screen itself. :eek: I could see the dropoff on the samples, but the PQ on the full 2.8 screen video from extreme angles looked excellent and in a sense more accurate than the overly bright center seat image. It makes me think in my room I would be better with 2.4. ?? :confused:

I think it depends on your projector. If it's dim, then a 2.8 works better. I had to raise my new projector up to a high shelf mount so the black level wasn't too high. At the old projector position (much closer to eye level), the image was just too bright. I still have the option of lowering my pj when the lamp ages, or I could just filter it and keep it in the lower position all the time. The point is that with an HP, you have options you don't with other screens. You can use a much larger HP screen and still be bright enough with many different types of projectors. With a low gain screen, the number of options is limited, and some projector options disappear altogether. You just have to be able to live with the cone of brightness. For most people it's not an issue. For some, it is. If your viewing area is spread out quite wide, and for some ceiling mount users, other options might work better.

I'm anxious to hear from current 2.8 gain HP users who move to 2.4 gain what the differences are. That's what is most intriguing to me about the new surface.

how did the 2.4 compare to the 2.8 in your eyes. Hard to tell in vid and pics with small sample. looks almost the same to me. Just curious with your comment from the other thread .

Originally Posted by Fabricator
oh. from what i have seen. i WOULD NOT tell someone to NOT get the 2.4 .

to me, they are so close that its darn close to a non issue. but, as was said, it can be misleading to judge from a 6x6" sample. i am sure, had i received the 2.4, i would be just as happy, with my friends to the sides being a little bit happier. i actually feel the 2.8 cone is too small. i am going to make adjustments to get my face where i like it in the cone. and i will get used to it.
i bet the "weave" of the 2.4 is why the cone is bigger.

I see the dropoff of brightness, but I expected it to be almost unwatchable at an extreme angle when just the opposite is true. If anything the center position looks inaccurately bright on the main screen itself. :eek: I could see the dropoff on the samples, but the PQ on the full 2.8 screen video from extreme angles looked excellent and in a sense more accurate than the overly bright center seat image. It makes me think in my room I would be better with 2.4. ?? :confused:


i was thinking the same exact thing. i thought it would be nearly unwatchable off to the sides. i went even further to the sides than in the vids, nearly 90deg, and i could see what was on the screen with no problem. it is no worse than the 32" toshiba regza lcd 720p that i am watching right now. of cource, idk how much, if any, my projector has to do with it.


this is why i did the vids/pics the way i did. i had been wondering it myself. i had been told not to worry, while other said it was bad. now guys can see for themselves.


let me say one thing i do not like about this manual screen. it only "locks in" in about 6" increments.
i got lucky/good and nailed in my mounting. as it had to be darned close to perfect, or i would have caused problems.

oh yeah. we watched HARRY POTTER tHBP last night. i feel the pq was about the worse BD i have yet to see. but i did notice that blacks were just fine.

I've always felt that the HP's color and brightness uniformity (side to side) are really good, no matter where you sit. It's just that the cone dictates overall screen brightness. Even though I've moved my projector from near eye level up to a high shelf mount, the image is still excellent. My Stewart Firehawk screen had a distracting sheen, no matter where I sat. Both color and brightness uniformity on the Firehawk were also quite obviously inferior to the HP.

I've always felt that the HP's color and brightness uniformity (side to side) are really good, no matter where you sit. It's just that the cone dictates overall screen brightness. Even though I've moved my projector from near eye level up to a high shelf mount, the image is still excellent.

i agree. no matter where i was, the image was uniform across the screen.

I need to figure out what fabric I have but I believe it is probably the 2.4 (received the screen in December) but I can't imagine a better screen. Seriously. The drop off is next to nothing on the sides and the uniformity is outstanding. Watched the playoffs this weekend and now a concert DVD. Just incredible. Still very happy with what ever I have:D

"i went even further to the sides than in the vids, nearly 90deg, and i could see what was on the screen with no problem."

It's still a mystery to me how it can be, but the same is true of my 2.8 HP - it seems to be bright and clear as far off axis as it's possible to get.

That vid demonstrates pretty well why I couldn't live with the HP screen, as the changing of the image with viewer position drove me crazy. YMMV of course. Seems most people are ok with it.

I didn't see how that video demonstrated anything. It all looked the same because the auto-iris adjusts.

This is one reason why screen shots don't work, the camera does some processing between the time the image is projected and our eye sees what the camera see's fit to show us.

I think it depends on your projector. If it's dim, then a 2.8 works better. I had to raise my new projector up to a high shelf mount so the black level wasn't too high. At the old projector position (much closer to eye level), the image was just too bright. I still have the option of lowering my pj when the lamp ages, or I could just filter it and keep it in the lower position all the time. The point is that with an HP, you have options you don't with other screens. You can use a much larger HP screen and still be bright enough with many different types of projectors. With a low gain screen, the number of options is limited, and some projector options disappear altogether. You just have to be able to live with the cone of brightness. For most people it's not an issue. For some, it is. If your viewing area is spread out quite wide, and for some ceiling mount users, other options might work better.

I'm anxious to hear from current 2.8 gain HP users who move to 2.4 gain what the differences are. That's what is most intriguing to me about the new surface.

Me too. One other phenomena is that if you are watching a projector that makes any seating position you have look bright enough, then you never complain about the viewing cone, because it looks fine from everywhere, and your eyes adjust and you can't see the fall off. However, if you are watching a lumen challenged projector (or the screen is just too big for your projector) then at the outer seating positions you may not have enough light. Those people like the sweet spot but hate the "drop off." What I can't figure out is if they change to a lower gain screen, then EVERY seating position won't have enough light, so I don't see the benefit there.

Me too. One other phenomena is that if you are watching a projector that makes any seating position you have look bright enough, then you never complain about the viewing cone, because it looks fine from everywhere, and your eyes adjust and you can't see the fall off. However, if you are watching a lumen challenged projector (or the screen is just too big for your projector) then at the outer seating positions you may not have enough light. Those people like the sweet spot but hate the "drop off." What I can't figure out is if they change to a lower gain screen, then EVERY seating position won't have enough light, so I don't see the benefit there.

The real question is how wide is the new cone for the 2.4 gain screen. What seems to have happened is that they've lowered the maximum gain but broadened the cone, so that, for example, people seated farther to the sides might be able to get better gain with the 2.4 than with the 2.8. We'll need measurements to know for sure.

The real question is how wide is the new cone for the 2.4 gain screen. What seems to have happened is that they've lowered the maximum gain but broadened the cone, so that, for example, people seated farther to the sides might be able to get better gain with the 2.4 than with the 2.8. We'll need measurements to know for sure.

Don't you figure that has to be simple arithmetic? Just widen the 2.8 cone out proportionately? Of course, that assumes the 2.8 specs for % off axis and the 2.4 specs are accurate.