High Power… The name says it all!

Over the years I’ve had the privilege of reviewing dozens of screens. It started out with my personal quest to get a screen for my own home theater environment and viewing habits, to now getting the best possible image for movie viewing.


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/projectionangles.JPG


If you’ve read my original High Gain review, you would have seen how important viewing angle is when dealing with higher gain screens. The constant challenge is how to get a big bright robust image from a dim sub 1000 lumen projector. When I talk big, I’m referring to screens 9 feet wide and up. The answer: higher gain. The second part of this challenge is how to get a great image at most viewing angles. This is where things start to get tricky. As you know, the more light you reflect back in a certain direction the less light you get reflected off to the sides. A perfect “lambertian” screen diffuses light equally in all directions. Low gain is ideal for good brightness uniformity across the screen and the best for really wide viewing angles. This is fine if you have a high lumen projector. Unfortunately, the manufacturing trend over the last few years has kept the best image and affordable projectors in the 400-800 lumen range. If you’re interested in a big bright screen… you have to go with higher gain. As with any screen, there is always a tradeoff. With higher gain screens there are even more! But if you can live within these limitations you can achieve images beyond what any other screen can do.


Why high gain?

Many people discount the benefits of high gain. These are usually people that either can’t look past the drawbacks of a higher gain screen, or don’t want to take the time to consider how higher gain can be your friend. I love to talk about higher gain screens, because that’s where the performance is! Many sit around pondering the difference between 1- 1.3 gain screens; but the reality is that hardly anyone can tell the difference between any of them at normal viewing distances. Throw up the brightness performance of a 2.8 gain screen and everyone will know there’s a noticeable difference. People love brightness! It’s very seductive, and like someone living with a gutless car for years and then going to a car with plenty of power, they are not going back. It’s all about the power. High Power!


What are the benefits?

- Higher brightness
- Increased perceived contrast
- Ambient light rejection


Higher brightness

Yes, higher gain screens can take a dim projector and make it a real performer on a big screen. But it’s more than that. You can use a higher brightness screen to get more performance out of your image! With some projectors, longer throws yield better contrast, but at the expense of lower brightness. Problem solved with the high gain screen. Many projectors also have lower bulb setting or “economy modes”. The high gain screen allows you to deliver a bright robust image in economy mode, lengthening the life of your bulb and still giving you the image you like. Finally, an additional benefit of having brightness to spare is through the use of neutral density filters. You can get these at most camera shops for fairly cheap and then use them to deliver a consistent light output from your projector over the life of your bulb. Put a neutral density filter on your lens when the bulb is new, and then remove it later when your bulb has aged and you can still achieve the same light output you started with.


Increased perceived contrast

A screen does not change the contrast ratio of an image. This on/off ratio doesn’t change, even with ambient light in the room. But there are many things you can do to allow your eyes and brain to think you are seeing more contrast. Masking, painting your walls darker, and backlighting are a just few of the tricks that people use to accomplish this; however, the easiest is to just use a higher gain screen. No, its not going to help your absolute black levels, but when you increase everything by a multiple of around 2.8, like with a high gain screen, the whites are so much brighter that your blacks, or grays, look even darker. Finally, this isn’t just beneficial from the top end to the bottom end. If you increase this separation from the top end to the bottom end you also get larger and more noticeable separation in your gray scale increments. What can this offer? More detail. The lower the gain screen, the more detail you lose in this area because the whole gray scale is compressed together. The more gain you have the more gradation you are generally able to distinguish because it’s spread out. It should all still be there, but being able to see this separation with a brighter image becomes much easier.


Ambient light rejection

The reality of front projection is that ambient light needs to be controlled. The more you can do this, the better the image. Unfortunately, a pitch-black environment isn’t always the best for hanging out in, unless of course you love caves. So with even a little bit of ambient light in the room, it’s important to come up with ways to minimize its effects. Often, we try to solve this problem at the screen. Unfortunately, there simply is no miracle cure. But there are screens that do a noticeably better job.


The Da-Lite High Power

Da-Lite has come up with one heck of a solution for the most demanding environments. Originally designed for boardrooms and business environments, the High Power does an amazing job of reducing the effects of ambient light. First, it’s high gain, so it reflects the light back to a controlled location. Second, it’s retro reflective, so it reflects its light back to the source; thereby, reflecting other light away from the viewer. If you keep these things in mind when setting up your system, you can reap these amazing benefits. To do this, you simply focus the projected light to your viewing area, and reject the light that doesn’t come from the projector. Unlike angular reflective screens, this ambient light rejection ability is only available from retro-reflective surfaces.


Angular reflective vs. Retro-reflective

Which is best? It depends on your setup and viewing environment. Most screens are angular reflective.


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/angular.jpg


Although angular reflective screens work well in a wider variety of conditions, they generally also have less issues at lower gains. Lower gain screens are ideal, because they are very good at diffusing light uniformly. When you get into the higher gain angular reflective screens you need to start thinking not just about the reduction of viewing angle, but also uniformity issues. This is called hotspotting. Hotspotting is caused when the screen surface can’t diffuse the light evenly, so you get a brighter image near the center of the screen, or where the angle of the bounce matches up directly with your eyes. The larger your screen, the more you will have to contend with this. Angular reflective screens with optical coatings have a high tendency to hotspot. The more the gain, and the bigger the screen, the more this may affect your viewing. If you’re planning on going big, this is something you definitely need to consider. How can we solve this? Retro-reflection.

With a retro-reflective screen, you can have a high gain, large screen and nearly eliminate all possibilities of hotspotting. Because retro-reflective screens bounce the light back toward the light source, they’re able to eliminate many of the issues that surround angular reflective screens with coatings.


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/retro.jpg


Some of the best properties of the retro-reflective screen are:

- Virtually no hotspotting
- No seeing waves on the screen (if not perfectly flat)
- Great ability to shed ambient light
- Screen surface is invisible when viewing

BUT…let me caution you. You can achieve all these benefits with the retro-reflective screen, however, you must set it up properly. To achieve the maximum gain characteristics of the retro-reflective screen, you must position your projector so that the light path from the projector to the screen is near your eyes. The closer you can do this, the more gain can be realized. To achieve the maximum gain of the screen, you need to have a zero angle of incidence from this light path. Can this make setting up your system tricky? Sometimes, but it’s not impossible. Either table mounting the projector in front of you or lowering the projector further from the ceiling both work very well. Some like to shelf mount their projector on the back wall closer to their equipment. When set up properly, the image from a retro-reflective screen is absolutely stunning. Okay, so who makes these screens and what’s the best?


The Da-Lite High Power

The best example of a retro-reflective screen I’ve seen is the Da-Lite High Power. The first time I saw this screen material I was amazed. The High Power is simply one of the best emulsions available for a screen surface and also one of the best values in home theater. This screen material was made for high ambient light and a bright image. Although this screen is not marketed by Da-Lite as a home theater screen, it has become a darling of enthusiasts for those that are willing to set up their systems to match its properties. In some cases, people don’t even set it up ideally and still rave about how much they love it!

The High Power is rated at 2.8 gain. Truthfully, I think its actually a bit more when viewed perfectly on axis. If using the High Power, I recommend trying to set up your system the best you can to capture its gain. If done properly, the images delivered from its surface are nothing short of spectacular. The screen surface absolutely disappears and all you see is what’s coming from the projector.


The Viewing Cone

Because of its high gain, this screen also has one of the narrowest viewing cones. The properties that make this screen so good are also what make it have limitations. Don’t get this screen and expect to get awesome gain when viewing at 45 degree angles. Generally, you can get 2.5 gain or greater when sitting on a moderately wide couch. The further outside of this viewing area, the less gain you should expect to achieve. As I mentioned earlier, many set up their viewing conditions, even ceiling mount their projector, and are completely happy with the lower gain they get, even though it’s not optimal. In some cases you may not want the maximum gain from the screen. Here’s a graph I created for the High Power’s viewing cone.


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/DLHP.JPG


Another benefit of the High Power material is that it’s not a tensionable material. This means you don’t have to bother with expensive tab tensioning setups to get a flat surface. This allows you to get a cleaner looking screen whether it’s a pull down like a Da-Lite Model B or the more deluxe Model C. If you want to take it to the next level and get an electric, there are a variety of options including the very cost effective Contour Electrol. This is what I have; and for a few hundred bucks more than the Model C, you’ll definitely feel like James Bond without having to be Bill Gates. The fit and finish of the Contour Electrol, like all Da-Lite screens, are absolutely top notch. I’m very pleased with this screen and the Contour Electrol. Whether you’re planning a top of the line recessed electric screen, or even a Model B, the High Power material is the most performance you can pack onto a roller. If fixed frame screens are your thing, the High Power material comes seamless up to 6 feet. So if you’re thinking about going big, you may be interested in a 6 foot tall 14 foot wide Cinemascope screen. Simply awesome.


How does the High Power do it?

The High Power is a glass-beaded screen. However, unlike the crunchy glass bead screens that are angular reflective, the high power uses micro beads. These micro beads are encased in an emulsion that allows it to be then be applied to a nice durable vinyl backing. The retro-reflective nature of this screen comes from these micro beads. The projected light enters through the front of the bead and gets slightly magnified and focused on the backside of the bead. The parabolic backside of the bead then reflects the light and redirects it back toward the light source. As it passes back through the front of the bead the light is then slightly diffused as it heads out toward the eyes of the happy viewer. This is the same kind of technology that is used in stop signs and road striping paint.


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/microbead.jpg


The trick is putting it together in an emulsion with the uniformity that is ideal for projection screens. Da-Lite has does this with the High Power, and with awesome results.


Conclusions

I’ve been reviewing screens now for a number of years. Every professional screen I look at is very good; and I’m a big fan of companies that have the technology to develop surfaces with optical coatings and that take it to the next level of reflective performance. I personally tend to like higher gain screens and the brightness advantages you can get from them. Of all the screens I’ve reviewed, there’s one screen material that has become my reference standard. That screen material is Da-Lite’s High Power. If set up properly, this material can deliver the best images available. If you are able to set up your viewing situation properly you can expect to see an image that:

Gives a robust high brightness image with real to life colors and whites
Provides greater perceived contrast
Has a clean uniform image so that the surface completely disappears
Has no hotspotting or visable waves
Has an amazing ability to shed ambient light


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/HighPower.jpg


The High Power is simply an amazing screen. When I decided to go to a 12’ wide 2.40 Cinemascope aspect ratio, I knew the only screen material that could pull this off and make me happy was the High Power. After having it up for a couple weeks, I could not be happier. The image is spectacular, and if you can set it up properly, you are sure to be happy. If you are thinking of going big, and your projector puts out less than 1000 lumens, there’s simply one choice. High Power.

Stay tuned. Part 2 will feature the upgrade, Cinemascope and the secrets behind the choices.

A huge thanks to Blake Brubaker, the Systems Display Manager at Da-Lite for making this review possible. As another Home Theater enthusiast, he allowed me to see the light. I hope that I have been able to let you see it too!

.


SEE HOW I WENT T0 2.40 CINEMASCOPE...CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791264)


:)

Tryg,

Great review!

My ceiling recessed electric da-lite HIGH POWER is set to be installed tomorrow.

Thanks for the recommendation and great service.

Ray

Tryg, nice review! Good photos and all, but why is the guy in the bottom photo flipping everybody off with his left hand? :D

Tryg, how far off axis can the viewer line of sight get before there is significant reduction in the gain you refer to?

With tiered seating I can only lower the projector so much before dinging heads on a regular basis.

Thanks for the review.

Since when is 12' wide considered a large screen?

:)

Great review and I couldn't agree more about the HP!!

Tryg, how far off axis can the viewer line of sight get before there is significant reduction in the gain you refer to?


The viewing cone chart above pretty much says it all.

It is a smooth transition though as you move away from optimal. Unlike some rear projection units where all of a sudden it goes black.

Tryg, Does Da-Lite make this High Power is an acoustically transparent version?

Now if Da-lite would only market a gray screen with a highpower-like coating. I think there are a lot of folks around here that would be willing to pay Firehawk prices for that, myself included.

This is indeed a great screen; I have an almost new HighPower to sell, but I don't see an appropriate section in the Marketplace.? What am I missing?

ken
thanks for the great info Tryg...

How much for the HP?...and what size is it?
Thanks

Brian - don't think I'm supposed to actually sell outside the marketplace; so in the interest of abidding, send me a PM and I'll get you the info...
the size is 116" wide 2.35AR...

thanks much-
ken

I have a few PMs asking me if I still love the Silverstar....yes. But I do like the added brightness and punch from the High Power on the larger screen.

Silverstar good for wider viewing angles, High Power the best for on axis viewing...

Absolutely Stunning!

http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/highpower-silverstar.jpg

Tryg, Dalite lists the viewing angle of the HP as 30 deg, which I think is supposed to mean that it falls to half-gain at +/- 30 deg. But your graph above shows that it has fallen to ~ 25% of its max gain at 30 deg. Can you reconsile this diff?

I could possibly mount a HP on a stand just behind our heads, but it would be more convenient to put it on the ceiling. The lowest I could get it would put the lens at ~ 7 ft above the floor (and 15 ft lens to screen), and eye level is the usual ~ 3 ft (sitting ~ 12.5 ft from screen). I calculate the viewing angle to be 14 to 17 deg, depending on what part of the screen the light is reflected from. Your graph suggests the gain would be below 1.5 (and therefore not much better than a Firehawk), while it would be > 2 if I used Dalite's '30 deg half-gain' figure. Any enlightenment you can bring to this? Tx much as always! Bill

Tryg,

thank you for the informative review.

Do you have any suggestions regarding Stewart's high gain materials? As a matter of fact I own a Luxus Deluxe screen with Studiotek skin. Therefor I would strongly prefer keeping the gorgeous Stewart frame and switch just the skin. Do you have any experiences with high gain options like Ultramatte 150/200, Videomatte 200, Silver 3-D?

Tryg, I've had my HiPower for about 3 1/2 years and it's as great as you say. Do you have any recommendations on how to clean one?

Tryg, I've had my HiPower for about 3 1/2 years and it's as great as you say. Do you have any recommendations on how to clean one?
I have cleaned my HP screen with just warm water and paper towels. No soap. It worked well and I frequently clean off spots using the the same technique.

I kept drying the screen with paper towels so that no water lines would be formed and left behind.

I rubbed up and down the screen because it seem that there are vertical ridges of the reflectors going up and down the screen. Tryg does not indicate any ridges and seems to indicate there reflection beads have no ridge pattern. I could be wrong.

Tryg:

1. In your screen reviews from a year or two ago I seem to recall you reviewing a Hi Power and giving it good marks but not the rave here. There have been no changes to the screen since then so why the change in opinion?

2. You state that you still like the silverstar but like the added punch and brightness from the Hi Power. But the silver star has a higer gain, does it not?

Lion,

The Ultramattes from Stewart are good.

QQQ,

The Silverstar does not have higher gain than the High Power as demonstrated by the above photo.

The Silverstar is good in a wider variety of setups and has wider viewing angles. On axis, or near it, I've never seen a better screen material than the High Power. Its a tough call and like the review says...depends on your setup. If setup optimally for the High Power, nothing else competes. That's why I choose it for my 2.35(cinemascope) screen. I'm generally stationary for movie watching.

I prefer the silverstar for sports...I like to move around the room

My HD-A2 images on the High Power are stunning!

Thanks for the review Tryg - I'm in a huge quandry on what to pair with the RS1 I've got on order. I really had my mind set on ceiling mounting the pj with a SS or Carada BW but the HP really has me second guessing that decision. Just not sure I'll get enough ftl with the Carada and the SS sparklies have me concerned. What to do, what to do....

Any other "new" screens rumored with HP capabilities but with SS mounting flexibility???

If that screen is 12' wide, then you must be a giant because it looks like you have a 10' wingspan.

Tryg, Dalite lists the viewing angle of the HP as 30 deg, which I think is supposed to mean that it falls to half-gain at +/- 30 deg. But your graph above shows that it has fallen to ~ 25% of its max gain at 30 deg. Can you reconsile this diff?

I could possibly mount a HP on a stand just behind our heads, but it would be more convenient to put it on the ceiling. The lowest I could get it would put the lens at ~ 7 ft above the floor (and 15 ft lens to screen), and eye level is the usual ~ 3 ft (sitting ~ 12.5 ft from screen). I calculate the viewing angle to be 14 to 17 deg, depending on what part of the screen the light is reflected from. Your graph suggests the gain would be below 1.5 (and therefore not much better than a Firehawk), while it would be > 2 if I used Dalite's '30 deg half-gain' figure. Any enlightenment you can bring to this? Tx much as always! Bill
Tryg, I think many of us are in this boat. It's just not practical in our rooms to shelf or table mount. And we're wondering if we'll lose all the benefits of the HP.

Do you know if it's possible to get maybe a 1'x3' strip of HP material that we could tape onto our current screen to see what kind of gain we might get with our current setup?

Maybe with your connections you could see if Da-Lite could let us pass around a scrap? If I saw a big increase in gain with my ceiling setup, I'd probably replace my Da-Lite HCCV.

If that screen is 12' wide, then you must be a giant because it looks like you have a 10' wingspan.
I notice that right away too.

Tryg,

I'm not trying to give you a hard time but you did not answer my question. What caused your switch in opinion on the Hi Power versus when you reviewed it the first time and chose the Silverstar. What changed? Because there is nothing new about the Hi Power - it's always been retro-reflective and I assume you knew all about that in your first review and your room has not changed either.

If someone reviews the Pearl and the Qualia, even doing a shootout between them and states that they clearly prefer the Qualia and then a year later writes a review that is the opposite and says (I've replaced the word screen with PJ)"...
"Of all the PJs I’ve reviewed, there’s one PJ that has become my reference standard. That PJ is Pearl".
...I would want to know why the change in opinion.

Again, I'm genuinely asking, not giving you a hard time.

Lion,


The Silverstar does not have higher gain than the High Power as demonstrated by the above photo.

The Silverstar is good in a wider variety of setups and has wider viewing angles. On axis, or near it, I've never seen a better screen material than the High Power. Its a tough call and like the review says...depends on your setup. If setup optimally for the High Power, nothing else competes. That's why I choose it for my 2.35(cinemascope) screen. I'm generally stationary for movie watching.

I prefer the silverstar for sports...I like to move around the room

My HD-A2 images on the High Power are stunning!

Looking at your apparent seating set-up, it would appear that many seats are outside the screen width (this was even more the case with your prior screen).

Given this arrangement, it seems to me that the HighPowers Achilles heel would be most glaring, as off axis viewing due to the very narrow cone of the HP should render the "side seaters" with far less gain than those sitting at center. Im actually suprised that you are seeing the gain you do at center seating, given the projector mount being much higher than the sofas in your picture.

I realize that specs only tell part of the story, and by the way you are gushing about this screen, I believe it must look quite good!

Q,

"The Silverstar is good in a wider variety of setups and has wider viewing angles. On axis, or near it, I've never seen a better screen material than the High Power."

my objective has always been to find a high gain screen with wider viewing angles as I wrote in my first screen review 4 years ago

"Why Review High Power Screens? Well, of course I’m trying to solve a problem. I do not like watching TV and sporting events in dark conditions that are necessary for front projection. Movies in darker conditions are ok, but there is nothing lamer than inviting some friends over to watch the Superbowl in the dark.

So how can I solve this problem? Find some magical screen with so much gain that it sheds all ambient light yet at the same time directs all projected light directly to all viewing areas. Hahahahahah. See, this review has already made me gone mad! Yes, I have come to the realization yet again… you cannot cheat the physics!

The problem: I have an unusually large seating arrangement with viewing angles from some seating positions exceeding 50 degrees from the light source on one side of the screen and less than 15 degrees on the other side. If you have started thinking about this now you probably have figured out you need to consider the projection angles and type of screen."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=228371

The Silverstar was finally the best screen to meet these criteria. Primarily higher gain and wider viewing area.

As I compared screens through the years I always recognized how impressive the High Power was but it never quite met my overall needs. Now that I'm setting up a 2.35 screen this is specific for movies (although wouldn't the Superbowl be awesome in native 2.35?). Since it was specific for movies I wanted the best and brightest available picture for this situation. The viewing angle issue thus went away.

Also in a wide 2.35 setup I wanted uniform bightness. an angular reflective higher gain screen would surely hotspot. The center of the image would be twice and bright as the edges

In reality I have the best of both worlds now. The High Power for movies and the Silverstar for when I have friends over and people are walking around the room for football games.

Yes the High Power delivers a better ultimate picture when viewing on axis. It's very noticable

Sorry Tryg,

Got it! You actually did explain earlier but I missed it. I completely missed the post where you said you were keeping the silver star for wide viewing angles and using the hi power for movies.

If that screen is 12' wide, then you must be a giant because it looks like you have a 10' wingspan.

Well I am 6'4"


how's this

http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/HighPower2.jpg


The problem when I take pictures is I want to get a little more action in the image....in this case me :) Seriously though my theater room is 32' wide and 40' deep. In the first pic I just was 10 feet in front of the screen so the camera flash would reach me

Tryg, I think many of us are in this boat. It's just not practical in our rooms to shelf or table mount. And we're wondering if we'll lose all the benefits of the HP.

Do you know if it's possible to get maybe a 1'x3' strip of HP material that we could tape onto our current screen to see what kind of gain we might get with our current setup?

Maybe with your connections you could see if Da-Lite could let us pass around a scrap? If I saw a big increase in gain with my ceiling setup, I'd probably replace my Da-Lite HCCV.


You can always request samples from companies. The problem is you cant tell much from a sample except how bright it can potentially be. A sample doesn't tell you a lot of things like what the overall image is going to look like. As demonstrated here


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/screenreview.JPG

Well I am 6'4"


how's this

http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/HighPower2.jpg


The problem when I take pictures is I want to get a little more action in the image....in this case me :) Seriously though my theater room is 32' wide and 40' deep. In the first pic I just was 10 feet in front of the screen so the camera flash would reach me
Dude, you AND your room are HUGE. Why don't you and your friends just PLAY the Super Bowl in your theater room? :D

We Do!

are you saying I'm fat? ;) I had to get a wider screen so my belly lookes thinner :)


Superbowl fun...


http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/Superbowl2004.jpg

Tryg, Thanks again from all of us for your efforts! One further questions re the HP:

I can manage to mount it 'high' (~7ft up) in the center of the screen, or 'low' (~50" up) on the back wall but off center. In calculating the viewing angles, they are both ~ 13-15 deg, one being that much vertically, and the other than much horizontally. [I can't mount it 'low' in the center of the back wall because that's a door!] Question: is there any difference in the fall-off of gain with vertical and horizontal displacement from the screen center?

No, I meant huge as in tall. No wonder you have so many friends with that setup :D

Tryg, Question: is there any difference in the fall-off of gain with vertical and horizontal displacement from the screen center?

No, with all screens the viewing cone is the same vertically and horizontally.

The Silverstar is the only screen I've found where the viewing is wider horizontally than vertically. This is the only exception I've found

Thanks alot Tryg, I was just gonna paint a cheapo screen but now I want one of these.

this is off topic, but how does one get a room this size? did you renovate to add on a specific theater room or was the house built that way? how many subwoofers are you running? what pj?

thought i'd add a lay-persons perspective.
i have a high power screen, got into high power by accident because i had no clue when i got the first one, name just sounded good. it is a great screen. i have cleaned hp with water and spray cleaner like windex, etc. problem with hp is the surface is easily damaged and cannot be repaired. any little scratch will appear dark. the screen material has to then be replaced. my current screen has a through and through tear and it is almost invisible.( i live in a hundred year old house) two previous screens were scratched and those little spots were very obvious. so hp is easy to clean, but cannot be repaired.
the narrow viewing cone issue even seems to be over-stated. i think most will be pleased. my image seems bright and vivid to the point that i've been asked several times if there is big "tv" built in behind the screen. no one has ever mentioned a perceived change in the image as they move around or sat or stood. when i have moved from standing next to the pj with my eyes at lens level to sitting i cannot perceive a change. i think that is a valid test because eyes really are awesome light detectors. humans eyes detect and brains start perceiving vision when there is interaction with as few as three photons. if the viewing cone made a huge difference that difference would stand out to everyone who is sighted every single time. it would not be a maybe, maybe not kind of issue that people have a need to talk about.( on the other hand, i've wondered if the image does change, but not the perception of uniformity because of memory of how things should look, go figure)
anyway, i agree fully, hp is a great home theater screen.
thanks for your work on this review.
this was some good reading for those of us who are waiting on the jvc pj. sounds like the hp is a keeper

this is off topic, but how does one get a room this size? did you renovate to add on a specific theater room or was the house built that way? how many subwoofers are you running? what pj?

yes, I added the room.
1 12' sub. no need for more. I have it turned down and it still rocks the house
JVC DLA-G1000

You can always request samples from companies. The problem is you cant tell much from a sample except how bright it can potentially be. A sample doesn't tell you a lot of things like what the overall image is going to look like.

Fess up tryg, the real reason you now favor the high power was due to the fact that the SilverStar can't be manufactured in a seamless 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. ;)

All kidding aside, this shot does look like it was taken very slightly off axis and both SilverStar samples appear much brighter than the HP sample. What gives?
http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/screenreview.JPG
I've been toying with the idea of getting an 11' wide 2.35:1 HP to complement my 9' wide 16:9 SS as well. How high is the pj's lens from the floor and what is the height from the top of the HP's screens viewable area to the floor?

Fess up tryg, the real reason you now favor the high power was due to the fact that the SilverStar can't be manufactured in a seamless 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. ;)

That is somewhat true. The reality is there are tradoffs with every product. Some prefer low or high gain. Some are willing to give up viewing angle for more brightness. etc etc etc

Finding what's absolutely best for any given situation is a very complex formula. Everybodys equipment, environment, setup, viewing preferences and value determinations are different. Just like with any product there is no perfect product for all applications....yet ;)

One thing that I have found to be true is if its a professionally manufactured screen, generally it's very good. They simply couldn't stay in business if they weren't.

Smithfarmer

get it 12' so it's 5' high like the Silverstar.

lens is 8' off ground and 26' back from screen. Screen is 3' off ground. You can see a very slight reduction in brightness when sitting down, and slightly brighter when standing up (closer to the axis)

Smithfarmer

get it 12' so it's 5' high like the Silverstar.

lens is 8' off ground and 26' back from screen. Screen is 3' off ground. You can see a very slight reduction in brightness when sitting down, and slightly brighter when standing up (closer to the axis)
Present room constraints forces 11' wide. :(

Planned room addition by early 2008 will allow it though. :)



Can you comment on this observation?
All kidding aside, this shot does look like it was taken very slightly off axis and both SilverStar samples appear much brighter than the HP sample. What gives?
http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/screenreview.JPG

"no one has ever mentioned a perceived change in the image as they move around or sat or stood."

Yes, another of the HP's great traits is that as you move off axis, the entire image dims uniformly.

What's really weird is standing to the side of the screen and seeing how bright it looks at nearly 90 deg.

I know that doesn't make sense given the gain spec, but try it and see.

smithfarmer that picture was taken in daylight conditions. The light you see reflected is from a window behind and to the left of the camera. The picture doesn't demonstrate much about a projected image. Although a projector is on there is also high ambient light conditions

smithfarmer that picture was taken in daylight conditions. The light you see reflected is from a window behind and to the left of the camera. The picture doesn't demonstrate much about a projected image. Although a projector is on there is also high ambient light conditions
Thanks for the explanation. So much for the naysayers claiming the SS totally washes out with "any" ambient light. ;) Those who own one know better but it's always nice to see more evidence backing it up.

Since you have full sized versions, any chance of you doing a strictly HP/SS comparison in the near future?

I think millerwill would be extremely grateful. :D

Already available in White, Gray, Silver review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=262466)

I general how is the pricing of the HP vs SS?
Paul

Already available in White, Gray, Silver review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=262466)
Thanks. It's ben so long since I initially read the review I simply forgot about it. :o

There is no denying that the bright white screen is just as impressive as the grey screens are (lifelessly) unimpressive. Thanks for an excellent review.
But are there any negatives? I found one customer review at Amazon:

"I was initially pleased with this screen. Reasonable price, great contrast.

After about 45 days (15 days past when I could return it), the screen developed deep vertical wrinkles, tapered toward the bottom (like this: \ / ).

I called Dalite to see what they could do about it. They rep immediately rattled off a long list of "things I could try". One of the suggestions was to completely disassemble the unit, iron it through a towel, retension the springs and put it back together. Another suggestion was to get 3 people together, have 2 people start in the center of the bottom and work their way out, pulling the screen tight in unision while the 3rd person holds a hair dryer on the wrinkles.

I got the feeling that the Dalite support reps just sit around all day waiting for calls from the hordes of customers who have warped screens.

What they wouldn't do was send me a new screen or repair my screen. I've tried a few of their fixes and thus far nothing has helped. I've now spent several hours trying to get these wrinkles out.

I don't think this is a well designed product, I would not buy another Dalite screen, and I would not recommend anyone else by one of their pull-down screens.

I plan to research other non-pull down screens, or possibly other mfg. pull down screens after asking their reps if wrinkles are a problem"
http://www.amazon.com/16X9-Model-Contrast-Manual-Screen/dp/B000293QCS/sr=1-3/qid=1166911753/ref=sr_1_3/002-9317096-6911200?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

The model C cost almost double the model B. They both use the same "High Power fabric". So like what can be done to remove the wrinkles so common with pull these down screens? It is an issue. Is the Model C guaranteed not to wrinkle???

Time once again to raise the "high performance" standards :)

I'm glad Tryg "discovered" something most of us have known for 5 years. Da-Lite's High Power (or Hi-Power) is an incredible screen.

Mine is going on 5 years strong.

-Mr. Wigggles

I got the feeling that the Dalite support reps just sit around all day waiting for calls from the hordes of customers who have warped screens.


I would guess this is why they dont market this material to home theater enthusiasts. They probably never get calls about their lower gain screens. I provided this review so people could set it up properly.

Amazon is not a site I would go to get reviews on anything

Also at most a model C usually only costs a couple hundred bucks more than a model B, usually less. It has a much nicer roller mechanism

I'm glad Tryg "discovered" something most of us have known for 5 years. Da-Lite's High Power (or Hi-Power) is an incredible screen.

Mine is going on 5 years strong.

-Mr. Wigggles

Is yours fixed-frame or pulldown (or electric)? TIA

I'm glad Tryg "discovered" something most of us have known for 5 years. Da-Lite's High Power (or Hi-Power) is an incredible screen.

Mine is going on 5 years strong.
You probably feel like the Indian's felt in 1492 when Columbus arrived and "discovered" America ;) :D.

Hey lets get some photos on this bad boy tryg, id like to see it in action with all lights on and all lights off, thanks!

"I general how is the pricing of the HP vs SS?"

HP cost is a fraction of the SS

Tryg tnx for great review. in testing samples i originally thought i was going to get a gray screen for the better blacks. But as you said there are many factors and perceived contrast is important and with the whole screen up the blacks seem fine. the screen disappears especially when you have a scene with blue skys could not say that with the hccv and it will work well with ambient lights which the plain white screen couldn't. yes the seats at the sides of the room are not as bright as the prime seats but nobody complains seating there and there not used most of the time. if it wasn't for the reviews and threads of this forum who knows what screen i would have gotten

Hi Tyrg, this is a fun thread. Have you ever tried out the Vutec Pearlbright? If so, which would you say is a higher gain... the Pearlbright or the High Power?

Thanks!

High Power is definately brighter.

Most of angular reflective screens that use pearlescent topcoats to acheive gain usually top out at around 2.5-2.7 gain. Going above this usually has some noticibly negative side effects.

I've seen the pearlbright and it looks like a pretty good product.

Man I wish I had passed trig - need a different Tryg to help me understand what kind of gain to expect with my setup. Below is what I was planning with my RS1 setup. I was planning on shelf mounting the PJ at the back of room ~8 feet to floor.

Room: 21x14x11
Screen: HP 103"x58"

First row eye level: 3.25' @ 12' from screen
Second row eye level: 4.25' @ 19.5' from screen
Screen Height from floor: 3'

Any help on what we'll see? I'm weighing using the HP on the shelf or a Carada BW from the ceiling.

Tryg, I have a 92" (I know, it is too small for you :) ) HP screen and have an issue with it, I still see wrinkles. I already exchanged it once with Dalite and decided I would either purchase a new screen or cut the material off of the roller and permanently mount it to remove the small wrinkles. What would you do? Thanks!

Jim

Jim, what kind of screen did you get? Model B? Model C?

The main problem with Model B is that it's max size is 106" diag, while the Model C is available in larger sizes.

haha, i dont even think my wall is 106"

I have finally decided to keep my Panasonic AX100. It is a relatively bright projector. I have been using it on a smooth white wall. The AX100 is ceiling mounted(20" down, just 25 inches directly above my eyes, if I'm sitting in the couch) and 18 feet from the 10' wide image.

Now that I'm finally ready to choose a proper screen.... I'm thinking about the Da-Lite HDTV 16:9 model C, manual pull down, in 133" with High Power. Does anyone think this screen will be too bright for the Panasonic AX100?

With that size of screen and the distance to the screen, you are fine. i am sitting 14ft away from a 126 Carada BW with my AX, and its perfect. i am curious if i will get a better pic if i drop it down like u have from the ceiling?



Walt

Jim, what kind of screen did you get? Model B? Model C?


It is a Model "B" with an extra 10" black dropdown with a Black tube.

Jim

With that size of screen and the distance to the screen, you are fine. i am sitting 14ft away from a 126 Carada BW with my AX, and its perfect. i am curious if i will get a better pic if i drop it down like u have from the ceiling?



Walt

:) I'm actually wondering about the opposite. Will I see any difference if I
raise the projector to it's highest position?(about 8 inches from the ceiling)
Will probably try it when I get the new screen...

When I first got the AX100, it was sitting on a shelf behind me, at eye level,
which I believe is the best location... but the noise bothered me too much.
(and also made the seating arrangement somewhat uncomfortable)

By the way, which AVS sponsors sell the Da-Lite model C High Power screens?

Thanks!

"By the way, which AVS sponsors sell the Da-Lite model C High Power screens?"

Just get it from AVS; I couldn't find a lower price when I got my HP.

Can we get curved High Power cinemascope (2.35:1) screens?

Hello,
After reading praises of the people here about the Da-Lite High Power. when i got a good deal on a used Da-Lite Model C High Power screen, i decided to buy it. It arrived last Thursday. I have not installed it yet but , last night i asked some friends to hold it up while i did a quick test. Here are my surprises!:

I am testing it in my living room (HT room), completely darkened but, with light-color and white painted walls and ceiling. In this environment, I am not able to see any slightest difference in brightness or other aspects from my matte white gain 1.3 screen! Is this normal? I thought i should see a significant difrerence in brightness. I do not even see any reduction in brightness when i move away from the axis of the lens!

So i have got suspicious maybe this is not a high power fabric at all since nowhere on the screen material and the case is written that this is High Power. There is only one label on the case that says 'Da-Lite'!

Now is there any method i can use to test this and make sure this is really a high power screen?! The situation sounds funny but real for me!

Thanks, Ramin

You would notice it if it were the High Power fabric.

Hey Tryg, not sure if you have already posted images of just the hi power in action, was wondering if you had any shots with it with the lights on. Im looking at the high power because i too hate to turn the lights down when i have people over when football games are on.

So i have got suspicious maybe this is not a high power fabric at all since nowhere on the screen material and the case is written that this is High Power. There is only one label on the case that says 'Da-Lite'!

Now is there any method i can use to test this and make sure this is really a high power screen?! The situation sounds funny but real for me!

Thanks, Ramin

I'm wondering the same thing. Does Da-Lite put a part number on the screen
or the shipping box to indicate if the screen is a high power fabric?

Also, are there any companies out there that will allow returns on Da-Lite
High Power screen, in case I don't like it?(or not suitable for my setup?)

Thanks!

Is your projector celing or floor mounted?

You could order free samples from Da-Lite to see which resembles what you have.


Hello,
After reading praises of the people here about the Da-Lite High Power. when i got a good deal on a used Da-Lite Model C High Power screen, i decided to buy it. It arrived last Thursday. I have not installed it yet but , last night i asked some friends to hold it up while i did a quick test. Here are my surprises!:

I am testing it in my living room (HT room), completely darkened but, with light-color and white painted walls and ceiling. In this environment, I am not able to see any slightest difference in brightness or other aspects from my matte white gain 1.3 screen! Is this normal? I thought i should see a significant difrerence in brightness. I do not even see any reduction in brightness when i move away from the axis of the lens!

So i have got suspicious maybe this is not a high power fabric at all since nowhere on the screen material and the case is written that this is High Power. There is only one label on the case that says 'Da-Lite'!

Now is there any method i can use to test this and make sure this is really a high power screen?! The situation sounds funny but real for me!

Thanks, Ramin

My projector is on a rear shack. It is a good idea to order free sample from Da-Lite.

Thanks, Ramin

Is your projector celing or floor mounted?

You could order free samples from Da-Lite to see which resembles what you have.

Yeah, I sent them an email Sunday and they replied this am that they would send out a sample. Can't wait to check it out. Although, if it's the bomb, I'm still going to have a hard time selling my wife on why we need a new screen. :D

Hi Tryg, I may have missd it, but I was wondering what your pj and seating heights are. Your pj looks to be about 9' above grade and yours seats are normal heights. Just curious how you are taking advantage of this screen with a ceiling mounted pj...

I like the new place - & thanks.

Marshall

if my seating area is 18 feet from the center screen, what size of High Power screen should I get? 119-inch of 133-inch? My projector is the Panny AX100.

Thanks!

Hey Tryg, not sure if you have already posted images of just the hi power in action, was wondering if you had any shots with it with the lights on. Im looking at the high power because i too hate to turn the lights down when i have people over when football games are on.
Put lights behind the screen to provide light in the room. The reflection of the light will be mainly at angles that do not reflect off of the retrodirective HP screen to your eyes. I have a table top light and bug zapper light (what I mainly use) behind my HP.

The light will also act as a bias light which will close the iris of your eye more to make the screen blacks look blacker for the light level of the room. You may want the wall behind you to be darker because that light may have a better chance of reflecting to the screen and to your eye.

With the narrow cone, there may not be much of the light that meets all the conditions to bounce back to your eyes with a high strength
.
On my HP, the picture has good contrast even though the wall behind me is white.

Man I wish I had passed trig - need a different Tryg to help me understand what kind of gain to expect with my setup. Below is what I was planning with my RS1 setup. I was planning on shelf mounting the PJ at the back of room ~8 feet to floor.

Room: 21x14x11
Screen: HP 103"x58"

First row eye level: 3.25' @ 12' from screen
Second row eye level: 4.25' @ 19.5' from screen
Screen Height from floor: 3'

Any help on what we'll see? I'm weighing using the HP on the shelf or a Carada BW from the ceiling.

Anyone got any guesstimates for me on the gain in this setup?

Tryg: Nice review, my question is: I just purchased a Pearl and I am currently using a Vutec 1.3 gain screen, was looking at going to a higher gain HP Vutec SilverStar... My current room setup is a room with low ceilings about 14 feet across the front and 22 feet in length and no Ambient light. Wanted something with some more punch to the picture because I am runing the Pearl in low lamp mode. Picture is stunning as is, but wanted some more punch, but don't want retna burn in ;) LOL Would the mid-level gain screen SilverStar be the best for this application. Watch some sports on this TV but mostly movie viewing considering my 60" RP upstairs is mostly for sports etc.. Thanks for any input.....

Vutec only sells the 6.0 gain SilverStar. In reality it's only around 3.0 gain. If you feel it's too bright you can always use an ND2 filter. I still use one with my IF 4805 and it has over 1400 hours on the bulb.

Tryg: Nice review, my question is: I just purchased a Pearl and I am currently using a Vutec 1.3 gain screen, was looking at going to a higher gain HP Vutec SilverStar... My current room setup is a room with low ceilings about 14 feet across the front and 22 feet in length and no Ambient light. Wanted something with some more punch to the picture because I am runing the Pearl in low lamp mode. Picture is stunning as is, but wanted some more punch, but don't want retna burn in ;) LOL Would the mid-level gain screen SilverStar be the best for this application. Watch some sports on this TV but mostly movie viewing considering my 60" RP upstairs is mostly for sports etc.. Thanks for any input.....

High gain.


what size screen?

Tryg, is there an acoustically transparent version? Curved version 2.35:1

I DO NOT recommend acoustically transparent screens. You will have to contact Da-Lite. I dont know if they perforate this material. Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good screen? :(

Why curved screen? It's retroreflective and digital projectors focus on a flat plane. Theres no need.

(if using an anamorphic lens just overscan it)

Guess I'll call Da-Lite - looks like everyone else has the same problem I do... :)

Guess I'll call Da-Lite - looks like everyone else has the same problem I do... :)
Yeah, I think we all do. It can't ever be perfect, can it. If High Power gave you all that gain with a regular ceiling mount configuration, it would be too good to be true.

When I emailed Da-Lite, I asked them for a 1'x4' strip so I could hang it vertically on my screen to see how the gain would change.

They emailed back that they were sending out a sample, but didn't say what size. I'm expecting the usual 8"x11" square.

I'm a little lost at the moment... :)

My Panasonic AX100 is ceiling mounted, but the lens is only 2 feet directly above
the top of my head when I'm sitting in the couch. The screen will be 18-ft away.
(either a 119" or 133" with the bottom edge 2 feet from the floor)

All the other seats are within 15 degrees of the center of the screen... all under
the projector... the room is light colored, with no ambient light(except for two
4w nightlights)

Will I see little or no benefit by using the High Power screen? :confused:

Thanks!

Kathy, Sounds like your setup is ideal for the HiPower. With the lens only 2 ft above your head, you should get a large fraction of the max possible gain.

I'm a little lost at the moment... :)

My Panasonic AX100 is ceiling mounted, but the lens is only 2 feet directly above
the top of my head when I'm sitting in the couch. The screen will be 18-ft away.
(either a 119" or 133" with the bottom edge 2 feet from the floor)

All the other seats are within 15 degrees of the center of the screen... all under
the projector... the room is light colored, with no ambient light(except for two
4w nightlights)

Will I see little or no benefit by using the High Power screen? :confused:

Thanks!
I'm guessing you have stadium seating if you're pj is ceiling mounted, yet only 2 feet over your head while seated?

And I'd definitely go 133" if you're sitting 18 feet back.

I'm guessing you have stadium seating if you're pj is ceiling mounted, yet only 2 feet over your head while seated?

And I'd definitely go 133" if you're sitting 18 feet back.

No, it's just an average-size basement.... :) The projector is ceiling mounted,
but I adjusted it to the lowest position.(about 18" to 20" from the ceiling)

But I like your idea better! :) I wonder if I can remodel my basement and add
stadium seating.... :D

Actually, to me that would be the way to do high power. Instead of putting the pj on a shelf, put the people on stadium seating. I don't think it's that difficult or expensive. I just can't do it in my room.

Tryg - A previous post asked a question which I don't see ever getting answered. You state the PJ is 8' above the floor, the screen is 3' above the floor, and you sit 28' back (assuming eyes about 3.5' above the floor). Is that really the type of setup you want for a retro-reflective screen?

I'm looking at getting a Pan AX100 with the following setup:

Room 11.5' by 15' with 10' ceiling
Eyes are 12' from the screen and 3.5' above the floor
Projector will be 14' from screen and 8' above the floor
Screen will be between 100" and 120" diagonally with the bottom at least 4' above the floor

I guess since your eyes are above the bottom of your screen then the retro is helping (think I just answered my own question) whereas my setup has my eyes beneath the bottom of the screen. Does this mean I would be better served with an angular reflective surface? What would you recommend here? I would like a non-fixed screen and prefer image quality over an electric motor for raising and lowering.

Thanks,
Lin

P.S. Great post by the way - extremely helpful to those of us choosing a new screen.

Actually, to me that would be the way to do high power. Instead of putting the pj on a shelf, put the people on stadium seating. I don't think it's that difficult or expensive. I just can't do it in my room.
I know this is off-topic but you are correct. It's both cheap and easy. It cost me about $$350 for materials and carpeting. The real expense was the additional row of Berklines($1800). You can save $$$ though as some folks just put an additional couch or a couple of Lazyboy's on their riser;)

Tryg - A previous post asked a question which I don't see ever getting answered. You state the PJ is 8' above the floor, the screen is 3' above the floor, and you sit 28' back (assuming eyes about 3.5' above the floor). Is that really the type of setup you want for a retro-reflective screen?

I'm looking at getting a Pan AX100 with the following setup:

Room 11.5' by 15' with 10' ceiling
Eyes are 12' from the screen and 3.5' above the floor
Projector will be 14' from screen and 8' above the floor
Screen will be between 100" and 120" diagonally with the bottom at least 4' above the floor
It works great in tryg's setup because of how far back the seating and pj are from the screen. The further back you can go from the screen with a ceiling mounted pj and the HP the better. It lessens the angle of incidence by going that route. The shorter the throw and the higher the mount, the less optimal the results will be.

Okay, thanks. So using THIS (http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.html) calculator and using these numbers.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trigcalc/trig.gif

B = 28' back from screen
A = 4.5' down from lense to center of screen (I'm guessing - don't know your screen height)
X= about 9 degrees.

So you are only off axis by 9 degrees and the screen works for you. According to this graph you are realizing a gain of around 2, I guess.

http://home.comcast.net/~tryghoff/DLHP.JPG

Is this correct? I wonder what the maximum angle would be before brightness lessens below that of a standard screen? twelve degrees?

My setup would leave a 17 degree angle which looks like it would be too much.

Thanks,

Marshall

Millerwill: My system is a very similar setup so the High Gain looks like the screen to go with. Just got a quote from Jason and once I sell a pair of MLs Vista speakers I have for sale I will be moving over to this screen. My projector is about 3 feet above my head and I am about 16 feet back, middle of screen is about 1-2 feet up if I am sitting in middle of couch. I will be using a 16X9 92" screen...

Marshall - Thanks for the calculator - that's a big help! Looks like I'd be ~17 degrees off axis vertically for my first row (primary row) given the setup I was planning. HP is definitely not going to work in my setup. Looks like I need to take a serious look at a Silverstar in person.

Marshall thank you very much for that calculator. It confirmed me what Tryg told me this morning and I now can't wait for my RS1. I should be able to get gain around 2.3 and that should be plenty for me to enjoy a bright picture.

Will the gain increase if screen is slightly tilted backward (on top) to reduce the angle? Then worry about correcting the keystone problems! I don't need to do this for my setup but just curious how it works for these screens as I read how lot of HD81 owners like to tilt their projector and screen to get the screens closer to ceiling because of HD81 offset limitation.

Will the gain increase if screen is slightly tilted backward (on top) to reduce the angle? Then worry about correcting the keystone problems! I don't need to do this for my setup but just curious how it works for these screens as I read how lot of HD81 owners like to tilt their projector and screen to get the screens closer to ceiling because of HD81 offset limitation.

If I understand retro-reflectivity correctly, the microspheres on the surface of this screen reflect light back along the axis of projection, whatever that angle happens to be. I don't think there's any way to get around placing the projector close to eye level, if the aim is to maximize gain.

Will the gain increase if screen is slightly tilted backward (on top) to reduce the angle?

No, its not angular reflective

HP might not work, but I'd wait to hear a couple of things...

1 is the calculator I posted the correct way to find the angle..

2 Are we interpreting the gain chart correctly.

I'm also curious what Tryg's angle is and his estimation of the gain...


Marshall - Thanks for the calculator - that's a big help! Looks like I'd be ~17 degrees off axis vertically for my first row (primary row) given the setup I was planning. HP is definitely not going to work in my setup. Looks like I need to take a serious look at a Silverstar in person.

I'm also curious what Tryg's angle is and his estimation of the gain...

Ditto - I'm just really torn on what to do for the screen. The Silverstar worries me with the "sparklies" and I'm afraid a ~ 1.4 gain screen isn't going to be enough for the wife and I considering this is going to be our primary TV/Movie room with lots of hours logged on the RS1. New bulbs are going to be a killer if we don't go higher gain I'm afraid...

1 is the calculator I posted the correct way to find the angle..

2 Are we interpreting the gain chart correctly.


yes and yes

In the calculator above, isn't "A" correctly measured as the distance from the lens of the projector to the level of a seated viewers' eyes, and not necessarily the center of the screen ( unless a viewer's eyes are exactly perpendicular to this point? ) If the term "retro-reflective" refers to a literal phenomenon, then in a "High Power" application, the greatest quantity of light is reflected back along the axis of projection, or area within close proximity to the point of origin, ie: the lens.

The main problem with Model B is that it's max size is 106" diag, while the Model C is available in larger sizes.

Bill - I'm pretty sure mine is a Model B. I found a good deal somewhere (can't remember) on a 96" square screen. I only pull it down enough for what I need. This gives me a 110" diagonal. I also used black felt to mask the wall around the screen.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/mrlittlejeans21/setup.jpg

I finally got around to playing with the High Power screen sample that Da-Lite
sent me a while ago. This thing is ridiculously BRIGHT! I taped in the center
and turned on my Panasonic AX100. In all modes(Cinema1/2, Normal, Vivid),
there's just a big bright square in the center where the sample is located.
I even tried to turn the lamp down to Eco mode and it was still very bright.

Next, I tried sitting in various locations to judge how narrow the viewing angle
was. Not too bad... The far left/right seats will see a little less brightness,
due to the angles... but still very bright.

My old InFocus(few years old, with old bulb) DLP projector will probably look
bright on the High Power screen... maybe I'll drag it out of the basement and
try it tomorrow. :D

One thing that I noticed was that the High Power sample sheet looked almost
beigh in sunlight.(compared to a sheet of 98-brightness printer paper)

Cool, I can't wait to get my sample and try it out.

Cool, I can't wait to get my sample and try it out.

I was just thinking.... if I get enough of these 6" x 6" High Power screen samples,
I can just put together a free screen. :D At first I thought there might be a
problem with the lines where the samples join, but I did a test by cutting up
the sample in half. I tape them together on the wall, and from nearly 20 feet
away, I cannot see the seam at all.

Just kidding, I don't want to be a cheapskate. (not until I'm about 82 years old, anyway) :D :D :D

Thanks for the review Tryg - I'm in a huge quandry on what to pair with the RS1 I've got on order. I really had my mind set on ceiling mounting the pj with a SS or Carada BW but the HP really has me second guessing that decision. Just not sure I'll get enough ftl with the Carada and the SS sparklies have me concerned. What to do, what to do....

Any other "new" screens rumored with HP capabilities but with SS mounting flexibility???

The Carada BW should be figured at 1.1 gain if you are ceiling mounting the PJ. The one sample I have does not meet their 1.4 gain rating with the PJ ceiling mounted. The BW has the best color and brightness uniformity I have measured. It causes virtually no color shift in the image. The image on a BW screen will benefit from making the surfaces in your HT dark colored and/or non-reflective. Because of its superb uniformity charectoristics it throws a lot of light onto the walls, ceiling and floor. This light will create some washout in the image if it is reflected back by light colored walls etc. If the RS1 matches its 700 lumen estimate, a 122"D (9' X 5') BW screen would yield 17 fL of screen brightness. Low bulb power would start you off at about 12-13 fL.

The SS is somewhere near 3.0 gain. Its an entirely different type of screen. Choose a screen size and gain that yields proper screen brightness. The BW and SS could not both be in contention at the same screen size because one would be almost 3 times brighter than the other.

The HP is only about 1.0 gain when used with a ceiling mounted PJ and thus you sacrifice its main advantage, high gain.

The Vutec Pearl Bright is rated at 1.8 gain and is relatively cheap. If I recall correctly I measured it at 1.6 gain. It has superior color uniformity compared to some of the other high gain screens. Of course it hot spots like almost all high gain screens, however the importance of brightness uniformity is greatly exagerated by many, IMO. It is much more important to achieve proper screen brightness. I agree with Tryg on this. If you need high gain, then use high gain. Don't choose to have an image that is too dim (or too bright). A caveat about the Pearl Bright. I have only measured a 2' by 2' sample of this screen. It measures out very well compared to comparable materials. I have not seen an image on a Pearl Bright screen. You would want to see one for yourself before selecting this material. It has a bit of a salmon color to it in normal room light.

Glenn

Choose a screen size and gain that yields proper screen brightness. Glenn

This is the 'great unknown' for me, "proper screen brightness". My room is not a dark-walled, totally light-controlled situation; there is not significant external light, but surfaces are light-colored (though not white).

A lot of people say you should go for ~30 ftL on a new lamp (and some even a lot more, but I consider them the fringe), while you and others say that 12-15 ftL is right for a new lamp. Is this because your recommendation is for the ideal dark-walled, etc. HT? Do you have a 'rule of thumb' for the room I described above, which I think is typical of many AVS'ers.

Bill, I've always been under the impression that you want around 12ftl from the screen when the lamp hits it's half-life.

The HP is only about 1.0 gain when used with a ceiling mounted PJ and thus you sacrifice its main advantage, high gain.
This is what I've always heard, but then there are some forum members who have HP with ceiling mount and still say they get a significant boost in brightness.

I received my Da-Lite sample today, but only 2 little 6"x6" samples which will make it tough to judge. I think Tryg should get a big piece of scrap HP from Da-Lite and then charge us $10 to rent it for a few days and then send it along to the next person in line.

I think Tryg should get a big piece of scrap HP from Da-Lite and then charge us $10 to rent it for a few days and then send it along to the next person in line.You could just look in the "for sale area" for someone selling a small used HP screen for cheap and just cut it up into 2'x3' pieces and sell them off. :D

You could just look in the "for sale area" for someone selling a small used HP screen for cheap and just cut it up into 2'x3' pieces and sell them off. :D
But who in their right mind would ever sell a High Power screen, unless of course, only to buy a bigger one, right? :D

I was just thinking.... if I get enough of these 6" x 6" High Power screen samples,
I can just put together a free screen. :D At first I thought there might be a
problem with the lines where the samples join, but I did a test by cutting up
the sample in half. I tape them together on the wall, and from nearly 20 feet
away, I cannot see the seam at all.

Just kidding, I don't want to be a cheapskate. (not until I'm about 82 years old, anyway) :D :D :D
I think we have all been avoiding buying the largest HP screen because it has a seam 6 ft down the screen.

Your test brings up an interesting question. Can the seam be seen in the largest HP screen or aa in your test, does that seam disappear when video is projected on to it.

If the seam disappears, then much larger HP screens can be built and used in home theaters. Anybody have any information on the seam on the largest HP screen?

This is what I've always heard, but then there are some forum members who have HP with ceiling mount and still say they get a significant boost in brightness.


My PJ's fixed offset is .16 times the screen height. The lens of the PJ is 9.5 inches above the top of the screen. From this position I measure the HP at about 1.0 gain at the center of the screen, the same as with the Firehawk in the same configuration. If someone ceiling mounts a PJ so that the lens is lower than the top of the screen, they will likely measure a higher gain.

Another difference is that I am measuring the light coming off the screen with an instrument. I am not looking at an image and estimating the gain.

glenned,
Thanks for the response. That helps as my pj will be mounted about the same height above the screen like yours. My wife will be so happy to hear that I'm not upgrading our screen. :D When she saw those Da-Lite samples come in the mail yesterday, she said, "I'm going to get online and tell your friends at AVS that you're not allowed to go there anymore because of all the upgrades." :D

My projector is 3 feet over my head while seating, it's ceiling mounted and I may be able to drop it about a feet down. Will the HP offer great quality? The viewing angle right now is about 14 degree.

Also, I want a 92" 16:9 screen, should I go with the Model B or Model C is there any real advantage for my setup with a model c?

My projector is 3 feet over my head while seating, it's ceiling mounted and I may be able to drop it about a feet down. Will the HP offer great quality? The viewing angle right now is about 14 degree.

Also, I want a 92" 16:9 screen, should I go with the Model B or Model C is there any real advantage for my setup with a model c?

perfect setup for High Power. Get the Model C. Much nicer rollers and mechanism. Definately worth the maybe $100 in difference.

'The HP is only about 1.0 gain when used with a ceiling mounted PJ and thus you sacrifice its main advantage, high gain.'

A bit too general of a statement, depends on the particuars of screen/pj/viewer locations.

I have been away for a trip and have not been able to write to this site. I checked the screen during the day when there is light coming into the room through the windows and now, i am convinced this is really a High Power screen. I noticed the central bright cone is extremely narrow and as soon as one is out of that small cone, the screen's brightness drops to the level of a matte white screen. The brightness drop-off happens rather immediate! I think i might have completely missed the small central bright cone
the first night i checked the screen! My understanding is that this screen's application is very limited by the room's geometry and seating locations.


Ramin



Hello,
After reading praises of the people here about the Da-Lite High Power. when i got a good deal on a used Da-Lite Model C High Power screen, i decided to buy it. It arrived last Thursday. I have not installed it yet but , last night i asked some friends to hold it up while i did a quick test. Here are my surprises!:

I am testing it in my living room (HT room), completely darkened but, with light-color and white painted walls and ceiling. In this environment, I am not able to see any slightest difference in brightness or other aspects from my matte white gain 1.3 screen! Is this normal? I thought i should see a significant difrerence in brightness. I do not even see any reduction in brightness when i move away from the axis of the lens!

So i have got suspicious maybe this is not a high power fabric at all since nowhere on the screen material and the case is written that this is High Power. There is only one label on the case that says 'Da-Lite'!

Now is there any method i can use to test this and make sure this is really a high power screen?! The situation sounds funny but real for me!

Thanks, Ramin

My projector is 3 feet over my head while seating, it's ceiling mounted and I may be able to drop it about a feet down. Will the HP offer great quality? The viewing angle right now is about 14 degree.

Also, I want a 92" 16:9 screen, should I go with the Model B or Model C is there any real advantage for my setup with a model c?
My projector is three feet above my head, as well. I went from black out cloth to the High Power. It made a tremendous difference. For the better. :D

Can anyone help me with the angles, I couldn't figure out how to measure them.

It's always just me and my wife sitting on a couch. It's a 52" x 92" screen (106" 16x9). Our eyes are at 36" above the floor. The screen bottom is at 36" above the floor also, so the center of the screen is at 62" from the floor. The projector lens is above the top of the screen at 90" above the floor. And the projector is right over our heads. The viewer to center of screen distance is 14' and the projector lens to center of screen is 13.5'.

I can draw out the triangle but can't figure out how to make the angles. Any help is appreciated. I think we're outside the viewing cone, but wanted to check.

I got an HP sample from Da-Lite two days ago. I was impressed by how responsive they were to my e-mail and how fast the samples arrived - just a couple of days. (Vutec has yet to respond to my e-mail.) I got samples of all their screen fabrics in a book, rubber cemented in for easy removal.

My high tech method for testing the HP sample at different screen positions was to use a bag clip, twine and a heavy stapler, which I put at different positions on top of my Firehawk, wrapping the twine to adjust for different heights.

I recently got a Sharp 20000 1080p DLP and it's a little dimmer than I'm used to. One look at the HP brightness difference was enough to sell me. I'm in the process of figuring out how to create a telescoping mount for the pj that I can change quickly and easily for different situations. I plan on bringing the pj down from near ceiling level much closer to eye level for the vast majority of viewing (without guests). For times when people are over, I want to be able to move the projector up (while it's off, of course) quickly and make a lens shift adjustment, and be up and playing in under 5 minutes.

I positioned the HP sample, then moved around the room. I paused my Dish 622 on a recorded program, so that its white progress bar was at the bottom of the Firehawk. I stepped off to the side and noted that there wasn't any appreciable difference in brightness. As I moved back and got closer and closer to the projection lens, the sample lit up like a torch. The Firehawk's gray changed to brilliant white.

I'm going to have to do a little rearranging to get the HP to give me the gain I'd like. After seeing it, though, I know it'll be worth the effort. Right now, I can't take advantage of the smallest iris setting on the Sharp, because it's just too dim with the Firehawk. After reading Greg Roger's review of the 20k, I'd like to be able to get the 7,000+ CR it's capable of. Right now I'm using the medium iris setting and eco lamp mode, and the contrast is very good, but I think the HP will make it possible for me to use High Contrast mode (fully closed iris) and still have much more gain than I have right now.

The trick is to come up with a telescoping ceiling mount. I'd also like to make it easy to move laterally. I'm going to speak with a carpenter friend to see if we can come up with something that will make it easy to go up/down/left/right easily and quickly. That is, unless someone here has already come up with such a solution. Anyone?

I got an HP sample from Da-Lite two days ago. I was impressed by how responsive they were to my e-mail and how fast the samples arrived - just a couple of days. (Vutec has yet to respond to my e-mail.) I got samples of all their screen fabrics in a book, rubber cemented in for easy removal.

My high tech method for testing the HP sample at different screen positions was to use a bag clip, twine and a heavy stapler, which I put at different positions on top of my Firehawk, wrapping the twine to adjust for different heights.

I recently got a Sharp 20000 1080p DLP and it's a little dimmer than I'm used to. One look at the HP brightness difference was enough to sell me. I'm in the process of figuring out how to create a telescoping mount for the pj that I can change quickly and easily for different situations. I plan on bringing the pj down from near ceiling level much closer to eye level for the vast majority of viewing (without guests). For times when people are over, I want to be able to move the projector up (while it's off, of course) quickly and make a lens shift adjustment, and be up and playing in under 5 minutes.

I positioned the HP sample, then moved around the room. I paused my Dish 622 on a recorded program, so that its white progress bar was at the bottom of the Firehawk. I stepped off to the side and noted that there wasn't any appreciable difference in brightness. As I moved back and got closer and closer to the projection lens, the sample lit up like a torch. The Firehawk's gray changed to brilliant white.

I'm going to have to do a little rearranging to get the HP to give me the gain I'd like. After seeing it, though, I know it'll be worth the effort. Right now, I can't take advantage of the smallest iris setting on the Sharp, because it's just too dim with the Firehawk. After reading Greg Roger's review of the 20k, I'd like to be able to get the 7,000+ CR it's capable of. Right now I'm using the medium iris setting and eco lamp mode, and the contrast is very good, but I think the HP will make it possible for me to use High Contrast mode (fully closed iris) and still have much more gain than I have right now.

The trick is to come up with a telescoping ceiling mount. I'd also like to make it easy to move laterally. I'm going to speak with a carpenter friend to see if we can come up with something that will make it easy to go up/down/left/right easily and quickly. That is, unless someone here has already come up with such a solution. Anyone?

I went through the same gyrations you are planning on going through with the HP. Threw in the towel on the HP and got the Vutec SS. All problems solved. Great gain with ceiling mount and from all the seats in the HT.

I went through the same gyrations you are planning on going through with the HP. Threw in the towel on the HP and got the Vutec SS. All problems solved. Great gain with ceiling mount and from all the seats in the HT.

What type of room do you have: all black/dark room surfaces, no external light, or light-colored walls or ceiling, etc.? My impression (from reading--no personal experience) was that the SS was very susceptible to ambient light, either reflected or external. What do you find? Tx, Bill

Can anyone help me with the angles, I couldn't figure out how to measure them.

It's always just me and my wife sitting on a couch. It's a 52" x 92" screen (106" 16x9). Our eyes are at 36" above the floor. The screen bottom is at 36" above the floor also, so the center of the screen is at 62" from the floor. The projector lens is above the top of the screen at 90" above the floor. And the projector is right over our heads. The viewer to center of screen distance is 14' and the projector lens to center of screen is 13.5'.

I can draw out the triangle but can't figure out how to make the angles. Any help is appreciated. I think we're outside the viewing cone, but wanted to check.
Looks to me like your viewing angle is ~18.5, which would put you outside the cone. You probably wouldn't see much difference between the HP and a matte white screen.

Looks to me like your viewing angle is ~18.5, which would put you outside the cone. You probably wouldn't see much difference between the HP and a matte white screen.
Thanks a ton, that's what I was thinking. Doesn't sound like it's worth replacing my $2k Cosmo Electrol Tensioned HCCV.

Tryg, Any estimate of when Part 2 will come out? Tx, Bill

maybe 1.5 before CES? :)

maybe 1.5 before CES? :)

That would be super! And I look forward to meeting you at the CES.

Also, if you have any influence in organizing the AVS reception, please ask them to have NAMETAGS at the entrance, and pens so that people can label themselves by their AVS name. This would be most helpful in being able to meet people who we've exchanged so many posts with!

If I adjust the location of my projector a bit, I think I can reasonably get the projector to be 12.1 degrees off my eye level. Is this acceptable for the High Power? Tryg, what is your projector to viewing offset?

My measurements will be 163" from screen to projector, my eyes will be ~35" below the projector.

Because there is so much interest in the HP, I went back to my notes taken when I measured the HP so that I could post exactly what I measured vs the generalized statement I posted earlier in the thread. See my prior posts for details on the ceiling mounting position of the PJ relative to the screen to judge viewing angle. The uniformity errors introduced by the PJ itself have been subtracted out of the results. For gain measurements I used a StudioTek 130 as a baseline for what 1.3 gain measures at.

Gain at the center of the screen: 1.17
Gain at the edge of the screen measured from the Prime Seat: 1.17
The HP is just as bright at the edges as it is in the center when measured from the Prime Seat. Of the screens I have measured the one which came closest to matching this performance was the Carada BW which was 7% dimmer at the edge than in the center when measured from the Prime Seat.

Gain measured when the viewer was seated 30 degrees to the side of the Prime Seat: .76 (which is about a 36% reduction).

Gain measured when the viewer was seated 45% degrees to the side of the Prime Seat: .75 (which is about a 36% reduction). For comparison, the ST130 experiences a 40% reduction in gain when measured the same way.

Color error introduced by the screen:
At the center of the screen as measured from the Prime Seat: +.0023x / +.0043y
At the edge of the screen as measured from the Prime Seat: +.0013x / +.0049y
At the center of the screen as measured at 30 degrees and at 45% from the side:
+.0013x / +.0033y

Color error is a numerical description of how distant a color is from the reference color. ISF standards require that the instruments used to measure the color D65 White for the purpose of gray scale calibration be accurate within .0040 in x and y. The color error introduced by the HP is pretty minor. Though there are a few screens out there with better color uniformity, the HP is better than most in this regard. It would be of no concern to me if I needed the HPs gain. Besides, if you have your PJ calibrated by an ISF who uses a spectroradiometer, it gets factored out in the calibration. Also, very few PJs come calibrated this close to D65 from the factory. However, when it comes to PJs with UHP/SHP or other mercury lamps, they tend to come from the factory too green, which is the same direction as the color error introduced by the HP.

In a previous post I mentioned a high gain Vutek screen that measured well. It is the Pearl White. It measured at 1.84 gain. It has exceptional color accuracy and color uniformity. It hot spots like most screens that have a gain higher than 1.0. In brightness uniformity it is about halfway betrween an ST130 and a Firehawk.

Glenn

glenned, thank you for posting your measurements. Looks like I would see zero benefit with the high power. Thanks for saving me a lot of money and effort. Oh, and my wife sends a BIG thank you! :D

Tryg,

This Highpower screen is something else. Thank you very much for all your over the top contributions. If it were not for you, I doubt I ever would have gotten around to buying this screen. Way to go man. :)

--------------------------------------

I had been viewing my new HP for a couple of days outside of it's optimal viewing cone and considered it nice enough. However, today I lowered my AE900U considerably, so now it's shooting only a few inches overhead. The increased brightness is very noticeable. I guess I'm seeing around a 2.4 gain. Before seeing this screen in action, I thought the graph Tryg posted of the viewing cone / gain may have represented the viewing cone to be much tighter than it probably is. However, I now consider that graph to be much more representative of this screen's performance. The screen looks nice if you're outside of the optimal viewing cone, but it looks so much brighter and IMO better when viewing within it. I'm now seeing a definite increase in perceived contrast. More of my observations to follow at a later date.

I have a Panasonice AX100 720p projector. I've thought about upgrading to
the Panasonic AE1000 1080p projector, but hasn't done so. The main reason
is that my current AX100 can project a much brighter picture than the AE1000.

Now that I'm getting the Da-Lite High Power screen, I'm starting to wonder
what the AE1000 will look like.... Perhaps it's time to think about upgrading
again? :)

Any High Power screen owner out there with the Panasonic AE1000 1080p
projector? How do you like the combination of these two?

Thanks!

I went through the same gyrations you are planning on going through with the HP. Threw in the towel on the HP and got the Vutec SS. All problems solved. Great gain with ceiling mount and from all the seats in the HT.

I'm new to screen research, so I'm open minded on the subject. What about hotspotting, sparkles, consistency of light across the screen surface from different angles with the SilverStar? Is the gain consistent throughout the theater or is it significantly different depending on the seating?

I think the surgery to my projection mounting setup is very workable for the High Power. On the other hand, if I can just put up a new screen and use my existing high shelf mount, it will make things easier.

What do you think, Tryg? I read one of your threads from a few months back where I believe you said (hope I'm not misquoting), "I have five screens and I use the SS exclusively." Did I get that right? For overall image quality, how do the two compare? From the perspective of someone who has watched both extensively, what would be the obvious disadvantages in choosing a SS?

I have pretty much a batcave. Ambient light is not a problem.

One thing I don't care as much for is the look of the fixed wall frames from Da-Lite. I have a very classy Firehawk frame that I'd love to keep. Has anyone attached an HP or SS to an existing frame?

Here's a thought I've had that someone here may be able to comment on. I was thinking as I moved around in the HP cone that it might be possible to maintain a pretty consistent screen brightness over the life of a projector lamp by using a telescoping mount. Every couple of hundred hours, lower the projector by an inch or two - closer to eye level. I think this is going to be doable in my theater. Any thoughts?

I have a crt now,and are on the JVC preorder, I got samples of both the HP and SS,double seating, back 222" from screen, 52x92now, screen center 40" from ceiling, proj. Lense center 12" from ceiling. Placing both samples at top , the SS had the advantage, as the samples got lower and lower the HP seemed to loose its power gain although its seems to have much better off axis light rejection. I am looking at going larger, either 54x96 or 58x104 with the new JVC ceiling mounted similar to the existing crt. will the hp lose its power at that offset??????????Will the 58x104 be too big and lose too much foot lamberts, proj. will be at mininium distance,
Thanks,
Neil

Here's a thought I've had that someone here may be able to comment on. I was thinking as I moved around in the HP cone that it might be possible to maintain a pretty consistent screen brightness over the life of a projector lamp by using a telescoping mount. Every couple of hundred hours, lower the projector by an inch or two - closer to eye level. I think this is going to be doable in my theater. Any thoughts?

Apparently, you and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to this screen. Poke around on the Chief website, and you'll find telescoping extension posts, laterally sliding brackets, turnbuckle strut supports; everything you could possibly need for projector positioning flexibility/effective gain control.

Apparently, you and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to this screen. Poke around on the Chief website, and you'll find telescoping extension posts, laterally sliding brackets, turnbuckle strut supports; everything you could possibly need for projector positioning flexibility/effective gain control.

Thanks. Do you have a link for the Chief website? Nothing helpful comes up when I Google it.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/store/results/accessories/?product_category_id=5213

http://www.chiefmfg.com/store/results/accessories/?product_category_id=5213

Thanks. Very helpful!

Thanks. Very helpful!

Once you figure out everything you need, Tryg can likely get you a really good price. The only negatives I see, are an extra ( though relatively small ) investment in what will most likely turn out to be a rather ungainly looking set-up, and a very limited sweet spot. But these trade-offs are more than worth it to me for the added punch, brightness uniformity, and good color accuracy which this screen offers, along with the ability to control gain.....besides, FP is necessarily about compromises anyway.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/store/results/accessories/?product_category_id=5213

You were right. Everything I need. Perfect!

Thanks again.

Once you figure out everything you need, Tryg can likely get you a really good price. The only negatives I see, are an extra ( though relatively small ) investment in what will most likely turn out to be a rather ungainly looking set-up, and a very limited sweet spot. But these trade-offs are more than worth it to me for the added punch, brightness uniformity, and good color accuracy which this screen offers, along with the ability to control gain.....besides, FP is necessarily about compromises anyway.

I'm planning on using my existing projector shelf. Instead of setting the projector on top of it, I'll mount it on the bottom. You're right - it won't look as elegant, but I have a few ideas to make it a little more attractive. The main thing for me is the image. I probably use the home theater for private viewing 98%+ of the time. On those occasions when I have people over, this sort of arrangement will allow me to optimize it for a larger group in a very short period of time. Then it will back to normal viewing. With these parts, I can get the projector within a few inches of eye level, or start higher and lower it as the bulb ages to keep brightness uniform.

The main thing for me is the image.

I hope it works out the way you want it to. I plan on just using a big stalk hanging from the ceiling near max throw, as low as I can get it without object interference in the light path. I'll lose some lumens by moving it back, but that should also effectively maximize contrast, and the HP has more than enough gain to make up for whatever I lose. Of course, I may also need to slick my hair down so it doesn't make shadows on the screen. :D

I hope it works out the way you want it to. I plan on just using a big stalk hanging from the ceiling near max throw, as low as I can get it without object interference in the light path. I'll lose some lumens by moving it back, but that should also effectively maximize contrast, and the HP has more than enough gain to make up for whatever I lose. Of course, I may also need to slick my hair down so it doesn't make shadows on the screen. :D

I won't have much of a problem with the hair. There isn't that much left. :)

Excellent review. I have printed it out to use for reference. I agree that (certainly with the limited lumens of the best performing projectors today) High gain screens are the way to go.

Putting aside Tryg's obvious bias towards products he has decided on for his application, I come to a few conclusions regarding the pro's and cons of the High Power vs the Silverstar.

It seems to me, that the High Power is the choice if:

1. You can mount the projector just above your head, or close to that position.
2. You sit no more than 1 or two seats to either side of the center position.
3. You need a screen that is wider than about 9 feet.
4. You need a screen that is a little less expensive.

For the Silverstar:
1. You need to sit more than 1 or 2 seats off axis, or have seating out to the sides.
2. You need to mount the projector more than a couple of feet higher than your head.

Seems like both screens will have nearly equal performance when used as intended. I use a Silverstar in my current theater, and am planning a second theater, that I believe the High Power may be the best choice.

Well, after doing the final measurements last night, with all the new mounting hardware, it looks like the HP may not work for me after all. Amazing what a tape measure tells you. I may have to go with a SilverStar. I asked this question a little earlier, but didn't get an answer. What exactly are you losing with a SilverStar compared to an HP? Is the viewing cone much larger (or is there even much of a cone at all)?

From what I've heard, the SS has a much wider viewing cone, which is good if you want this, but makes it do less well in rejecting ambient light. The surface of the SS is also reported by some to have a 'sheen', which the HP is supposedly free of.

The viewing cone is much larger, and works well for me, since I have seating off to the side in my theater. Ambient light rejection is not an issue in my dedicated theater, but I do watch some shows with the lights on at times.

As far as the sheen is concerned, I have found that if the projector is calibrated properly, and light output it properly matched to the size of the screen, it is a non-issue. I even feel that it is not much of an issue when the projector is too bright for the screen.

you guys see any problems if i put my Z3 off to the side of the screen, it will probably be lens shifted about 30 %, im working with a smaller room and need to have the couch infront of the screen and do not want to ceiling mount.

will the High Power screen be helpful in a smoke-filled room? I host cigar parties
every couple of weeks. 12 to 18 people, dozens of lit cigars... the smoke usually
gets very bright while the projector is turned on. (Panny AX100) One time it got
so bad, nobody could see anything on the screen.... It was like driving with high-
beams on at night, in heavy fog.... we had to ventilate by opening the basement
door in 20-degree weather.... :( We went through almost 150 cigars that night.

One of the reasons I'm getting the HP is the brightness...... I figured that a
brighter smoke will overpower the bright smoke.... or will it have the opposite
effect? :confused:

thanks for any info!

will the High Power screen be helpful in a smoke-filled room? I host cigar parties
every couple of weeks. 12 to 18 people, dozens of lit cigars... the smoke usually
gets very bright while the projector is turned on. (Panny AX100) One time it got
so bad, nobody could see anything on the screen.... It was like driving with high-
beams on at night, in heavy fog.... we had to ventilate by opening the basement
door in 20-degree weather.... :( We went through almost 150 cigars that night.

One of the reasons I'm getting the HP is the brightness...... I figured that a
brighter smoke will overpower the bright smoke.... or will it have the opposite
effect? :confused:

thanks for any info!



Kathy: There have been a couple of threads by HT owners who smoke that maybe of interest to you. Before the search engine went down, I found one of them:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=698762

I asked this question a little earlier, but didn't get an answer. What exactly are you losing with a SilverStar compared to an HP? Is the viewing cone much larger (or is there even much of a cone at all)?
Yesterday I had answered all of your questions and then some and when I clicked submit reply discovered the servers had crashed and the post was lost. Free has pretty much covered your ?'s in his response but I will give it another go.


I'm new to screen research, so I'm open minded on the subject. What about hotspotting, sparkles, consistency of light across the screen surface from different angles with the SilverStar? Is the gain consistent throughout the theater or is it significantly different depending on the seating?

what would be the obvious disadvantages in choosing a SS?

I have pretty much a batcave. Ambient light is not a problem.

One thing I don't care as much for is the look of the fixed wall frames from Da-Lite. I have a very classy Firehawk frame that I'd love to keep. Has anyone attached an HP or SS to an existing frame?

I see absolutely no hotspotting on my 120" diagonal 16:9 SS.

Gain is consistent over the whole screen and there is no perceivable loss in brightness whether I'm sitting front and center in the first row of the theater seats or 60-75 degrees off axis in the extra seating I have along the right wall of my room up front and within 1.3 x SW.

As I move about the room there is no shifting of brightness at all. The viewing cone of the SS is fantastic and probably one of the best of all the high gain screens available. Since you have a bat cave, the HP's performance advantage over the SS in dealing with higher ambient light is of no real value in your situation.

As for aesthetics, when I first got the screen I thought it looked like a piece of art hanging on the wall. I've got the 3.25" black velvet frame and it indeed has a very classy look to it. The ladies definitely like it so it has an excellent WAF. Simply put, it's a great looking screen.

Regarding comments of apparent sheen/sparklies with the SS, I believe it is caused by too many lumens hitting the screen. I know tryg believes you can never have too bright of a screen but I have to disagree. There is such a possibility of having too much of a good thing. When I first got the screen the image was extremely bright. Long viewing sessions would sometime be fatiguing on the eyes.

Something else I noticed was I could occasionally see a very slight sheen on really bright white foamy ocean surf/spray during surfing shows/movies like "Step in to Liquid". I thought this was strange as I couldn't see it on snowy mountain/pasture land scenes, only on ocean surf.

Someone recommended an ND2 filter to cut down the lumens. You have realize that without the filter I was getting the equivalent of around 42 ftls and that is way too high. 12 -16 is the ideal target to shoot for according to SMPTE. I bought the filter and it dropped the ftls to a much more reasonable level of 21 and eliminated the occasional sheen problem for me. YMMV.

The advantages of the HP are:

Lighter on the wallet.

Available in larger screen sizes.

Better ambient light rejection.

Retractable screen option.

The advantages of the SS are:

Flexible PJ placement.

Much wider viewing cone.

Fixed frame screen looks very nice.

____________________________________________________________ _____

Visibility of screen surface. Some see it, some don't.

I have read of complaints about this on the HP as well. So, while not as numerous as with the SS, it's not a forgone conclusion that you won't be bothered by the screen surface of the HP. With that said, I'm more than willing to give the HP the advantage here due to the lesser # of complaints and the fact that I did see it on my screen before installing the ND2 filter.

No matter which screen you are considering, you should view samples in your own room as this will better enable you to make an informed decision.

just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?

Yesterday I had answered all of your questions and then some and when I clicked submit reply discovered the servers had crashed and the post was lost. Free has pretty much covered your ?'s in his response but I will give it another go.




I see absolutely no hotspotting on my 120" diagonal 16:9 SS.

Gain is consistent over the whole screen and there is no perceivable loss in brightness whether I'm sitting front and center in the first row of the theater seats or 60-75 degrees off axis in the extra seating I have along the right wall of my room up front and within 1.3 x SW.

As I move about the room there is no shifting of brightness at all. The viewing cone of the SS is fantastic and probably one of the best of all the high gain screens available. Since you have a bat cave, the HP's performance advantage over the SS in dealing with higher ambient light is of no real value in your situation.

As for aesthetics, when I first got the screen I thought it looked like a piece of art hanging on the wall. I've got the 3.25" black velvet frame and it indeed has a very classy look to it. The ladies definitely like it so it has an excellent WAF. Simply put, it's a great looking screen.

Regarding comments of apparent sheen/sparklies with the SS, I believe it is caused by too many lumens hitting the screen. I know tryg believes you can never have too bright of a screen but I have to disagree. There is such a possibility of having too much of a good thing. When I first got the screen the image was extremely bright. Long viewing sessions would sometime be fatiguing on the eyes.

Something else I noticed was I could occasionally see a very slight sheen on really bright white foamy ocean surf/spray during surfing shows/movies like "Step in to Liquid". I thought this was strange as I couldn't see it on snowy mountain/pasture land scenes, only on ocean surf.

Someone recommended an ND2 filter to cut down the lumens. You have realize that without the filter I was getting the equivalent of around 42 ftls and that is way too high. 12 -16 is the ideal target to shoot for according to SMPTE. I bought the filter and it dropped the ftls to a much more reasonable level of 21 and eliminated the occasional sheen problem for me. YMMV.

The advantages of the HP are:

Lighter on the wallet.

Available in larger screen sizes.

Better ambient light rejection.

Retractable screen option.

The advantages of the SS are:

Flexible PJ placement.

Much wider viewing cone.

Fixed frame screen looks very nice.

____________________________________________________________ _____

Visibility of screen surface. Some see it, some don't.

I have read of complaints about this on the HP as well. So, while not as numerous as with the SS, it's not a forgone conclusion that you won't be bothered by the screen surface of the HP. With that said, I'm more than willing to give the HP the advantage here due to the lesser # of complaints and the fact that I did see it on my screen before installing the ND2 filter.

No matter which screen you are considering, you should view samples in your own room as this will better enable you to make an informed decision.

I think AVS was down more yesterday than it was up.

I appreciate the feedback. I thought some more about the positioning of the HP and I think I might be able to make it work. Not ideal, but it might just work. (I wasn't thinking in all three dimensions.)

I started to do some research on the SilverStar by Googling a review. The first thing I came up with was a review by ProjectorCentral. It was less than flattering, in direct comparison to my Firehawk. Has anyone seen this:

Unflattering SilverStar Review (http://www.projectorcentral.com/vutec_screens.htm)

If I had only this review to go on, I wouldn't even consider the SS.

Vutec has yet to respond to my request for a sample. If it's like the HP, it won't tell me much about hotspotting, sparkles, etc. The HP sample was about 6x6". Seeing gain wasn't a problem, but anything else is really tough to discern.

just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?

Contact Tryg or Jason Turk. They can set you up.

just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?

AVS sells Vutec, along with other brands. Click on the "AV Science Product Lines" header at the top right of your screen.

I started to do some research on the SilverStar by Googling a review. The first thing I came up with was a review by ProjectorCentral. It was less than flattering, in direct comparison to my Firehawk. When I was first looking into getting the SS I had to wait until after CES to speak with someone who could answer my questions. Since my office is 3 miles away from their manufacturing facility, I had went over there and found out that all of their reps had went to CES. A lot of these companies do not have a very large support staff and right now due to the holidays and/or getting ready for CES getting info or samples can be tough. Things will be back to normal in a couple of weeks.

As for PC, in my and many other peoples opinions, they are one of the least credible sites for honest, objective and accurate info. Whatever you read there should be taken with many grains of salt.

When I was first looking into getting the SS I had to wait until after CES to speak with someone who could answer my questions. Since my office is 3 miles away from their manufacturing facility, I had went over there and found out that all of their reps had went to CES. A lot of these companies do not have a very large support staff and right now due to the holidays and/or getting ready for CES getting info or samples can be tough. Things will be back to normal in a couple of weeks.

As for PC, in my and many other peoples opinions, they are one of the least credible sites for honest, objective and accurate info. Whatever you read there should be taken with many grains of salt.

After the many good things I've read about the SS, I was taken aback by the extremely negative comments about sharpness, etc. As I said, I've come up with a way I think I can use the HP and get close to optimum gain. I'll lose a seat in the rear viewing area, but I think my main viewing area should be just a foot or so below lens level.

After the many good things I've read about the SS, I was taken aback by the extremely negative comments about sharpness, etc. As I said, I've come up with a way I think I can use the HP and get close to optimum gain. I'll lose a seat in the rear viewing area, but I think my main viewing area should be just a foot or so below lens level.

That's exactly what my setup will probably look like. I am thinking to get an adjustable pole for my Chief RPA-U mount I got for my RS1 on preorder. When I have several friends and need that extra seat, I will lift the projector up by a feet or two.

I'm kind of confused right now. :(

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!

I'm kind of confused right now. :(

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!


You might want to discontinue using the white font color. Not everyone uses the AVS Dark theater mode for reading the forum. If they are using the White Theater mode they won't be able to read your posts.

I'm kind of confused right now. :(

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!



I'd like an answer to this one as well.

I thought it was a secret message for only those who had the invisible ink dcoder. ;)

Joe Clark: I just called them a few minutes ago, talked to the guy for about 20 minutes. I am trying to find a good new screen with my Sony Pearl 1080p projector. Guy was really helpful and stated he would send a piece of material out tomorrow. This is a stiffer material, so not sure if it is easy to just dump in a mailbox, I could be wrong. I was also told that Texas Instruments uses all Vutecs and there will be plenty of people at the CES show that will be displaying these. He also stated that the owner at one time of AVS has a Silverstar, so not sure how good or bad it is, but i won't make any decisions till I see it.

I thought it was a secret message for only those who had the invisible ink dcoder. ;)
:D :D :D

Joe Clark:

Here is part of the review on the SilverScreen from Vutec. The "Huge" problem I have with there review is they really don't touch on what projectors will benefit with this screen, and to me that would be the most important issue, finding a good match. Now since most not all, new 1080p projectors are lower lumens and the blubs are not as bright as some of the newer 720p projectors, one would think this would be a great match with certain projectors.

Quote from Projection Central:

"If you set up the SilverStar side by side with any other traditional white or gray home theater screen, the SilverStar will look dazzling, and every other screen will look dim. It certainly makes for an impressive demo. But in many important ways it is misleading to present the relative performance of a high gain screen against a low gain screen in this manner. We viewed the SilverStar side by side with the Firehawk, but we also viewed the same material exclusively on each screen in sequence. This latter procedure produces much different results. Viewed with the SilverStar the Firehawk appeared dim, low in contrast and low in color saturation. However standing alone the Firehawk showed very adequate illumination, deeper blacks, better overall contrast, more satisfying color saturation, and superior image sharpness. Furthermore, since it was not overwhelmingly bright the Firehawk was easier to view for hours at a time without developing eye strain and visual fatigue."

To Any Pearl or Ruby Owners out there that have either the SS or the HS, what are your thoughts? My room is about 15 feet across, and about 24 feet long, low ceilings and I am about 15 feet back, looking at a 92" 16x9 fixed screen, projector is about 3-4 feet above my head. No ambient light... I think someone had mentioned that the HS would be better, but I have a sample and I am seeing some difference in brightness but not much from the screen I am using. Easy Vu from Vutec 1.3 gain brightwhite. Thanks for any input!!!!

I'm kind of confused right now. :(
How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.
Thanks!

AX100 is a very bright projector from what I read. Carada BW screen with a gain of 1.4 should work great for 133" screen.

Joe Clark:

Here is part of the review on the SilverScreen from Vutec. The "Huge" problem I have with there review is they really don't touch on what projectors will benefit with this screen, and to me that would be the most important issue, finding a good match. Now since most not all, new 1080p projectors are lower lumens and the blubs are not as bright as some of the newer 720p projectors, one would think this would be a great match with certain projectors.

Quote from Projection Central:

"If you set up the SilverStar side by side with any other traditional white or gray home theater screen, the SilverStar will look dazzling, and every other screen will look dim. It certainly makes for an impressive demo. But in many important ways it is misleading to present the relative performance of a high gain screen against a low gain screen in this manner. We viewed the SilverStar side by side with the Firehawk, but we also viewed the same material exclusively on each screen in sequence. This latter procedure produces much different results. Viewed with the SilverStar the Firehawk appeared dim, low in contrast and low in color saturation. However standing alone the Firehawk showed very adequate illumination, deeper blacks, better overall contrast, more satisfying color saturation, and superior image sharpness. Furthermore, since it was not overwhelmingly bright the Firehawk was easier to view for hours at a time without developing eye strain and visual fatigue."

To Any Pearl or Ruby Owners out there that have either the SS or the HS, what are your thoughts? My room is about 15 feet across, and about 24 feet long, low ceilings and I am about 15 feet back, looking at a 92" 16x9 fixed screen, projector is about 3-4 feet above my head. No ambient light... I think someone had mentioned that the HS would be better, but I have a sample and I am seeing some difference in brightness but not much from the screen I am using. Easy Vu from Vutec 1.3 gain brightwhite. Thanks for any input!!!!

Thanks for the info. I did get the Vutec sample today - a miniagure 4x3 frame with black borders, much larger than the High Power sample I got from Da-Lite. It gave me a good idea about gain and other attributes. I could see a sheen with the SS that I didn't see with the HP. (I thought I saw something on the HP sample, then realized it was just smudges from my handling it so much the last few days.) To my eye, the HP sample looks more natural (no sheen) and the gain appears higher. With the SS I could leave my projector where it is, and the gain would still be good pretty good - definite pluses. OTOH, I really do like the look of the HP better, and the gain seems higher. Also, instructions say you can clean the HP with anything from warm water to Naphtha. The SS looks like it would be possible to permanently damage without too much effort. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think this would be a kid friendly screen. (SS owners correct me if I'm wrong.)

Anyway, I ordered the HP from AVS today, along with some mounting hardware from Chief. Thanks for the Chief tip - they had everything I needed.

Here's going to be my setup in a couple of weeks: Sharp XV-Z20000 1080p DLP projector, 15' from a 110" Da-Lite High Power screen, Cinema Contour frame with Pro-Trim fabric (much like my Stewart Firehawk). The projector will be mounted about a foot above eye level, with the main seats no more than 2' to the left and right. If that's too bright, I'll raise the projector until it isn't.

With this configuration, I'll be able to keep the Sharp in High Contrast mode (over 7500:1).

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get the best price on a Da-lite High power screen in Canada. Also, I have an Infocus IN76 PJ, anyone else here have a IN76 with a High Power screen? If so, how do they go together?

Thanks

Milit

Congratulations Joe,

It sounds like you'll soon have one very nice setup. Enjoy! :)

Congrads Joe: I just got my samples from Da-Lite yesterday comparing the 3 samples they gave me tonight and I must say I still like the screen I have better.. Using a VuTec 1.3 gain Brite White and it looks better to my eye of course. The 3 samples I got from DA-Lite was HP, which was very close to what I have, but seemed a tad darker. The High Contrast Cinema Vision had way too much sheen and I noticed it right away and the DA-MAT was way too dark... If I could find a slightly higher gain Brite White screen I think it would fit my bill with the Pearl.

Joe: also I don't think the sheen would be an issue if your sitting back far enough, up close yes you can see it but if you step back few feet it is hard to pick that up.

milit: Try the local guys on here, stills some of the best pricing I have seen so far. There a couple hundred dollars less than my local dealer.

Looks like this screen might serve me well......

http://www.videoessentials.com/noteworthy_projectionscreen.php

hmmmm or this one?

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/Ultramatte150.html

Congrads Joe: I just got my samples from Da-Lite yesterday comparing the 3 samples they gave me tonight and I must say I still like the screen I have better.. Using a VuTec 1.3 gain Brite White and it looks better to my eye of course. The 3 samples I got from DA-Lite was HP, which was very close to what I have, but seemed a tad darker. The High Contrast Cinema Vision had way too much sheen and I noticed it right away and the DA-MAT was way too dark... If I could find a slightly higher gain Brite White screen I think it would fit my bill with the Pearl.

Joe: also I don't think the sheen would be an issue if your sitting back far enough, up close yes you can see it but if you step back few feet it is hard to pick that up.

milit: Try the local guys on here, stills some of the best pricing I have seen so far. There a couple hundred dollars less than my local dealer.

Looks like this screen might serve me well......

http://www.videoessentials.com/noteworthy_projectionscreen.php

hmmmm or this one?

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/Ultramatte150.html

Funny what different perceptions we have of screens than the numbers would seem to indicate. Depending on my position, the SS seemed in brightness the same as my Firehawk (1.3 gain) to maybe twice as bright. Definitely an improvement, but the sheen bothered me from my normal seating position (about 12'). The HP sample seemed in brightness either the same as the Firehawk (from off axis) to night and day difference. And no sheen that I could tell. Again, though, they provided a very small sample. Still, I didn't see a sheen from anywhere in my seating area. I put the HP and the SS side by side and the difference was dramatic. The HP seemed much brighter. Of course, the angles (angular reflective vs. retro-reflective) make a huge difference in any side by side with these two, but even taking that into account, the HP definitely seemed to have a significant edge in brightness.

Speaking of sheen, I realize after viewing with the HP sample that it has a significant edge over the Firehawk in terms of sheen/sparkles. Of course, I couldn't get any sort of idea about screen uniformity across the entire surface, but the Firehawk definitely falls off in brightness from one edge to the other. And I get color shifts with the Firehawk. As I view text on AVS (yellow on black), I notice how text on the right side of the screen (I sit more on the left) loses color saturation significantly. I do have the first generation Firehawk fabric. It was just being introduced by Stewart when I got my first digital projector. Anyway, from what I've read here, uniformity with the HP ought to be better than with my current screen.

Thanks to everyone here. The advice and tips I've gotten have been extremely helpful. I'll post back after I spend more quality time with the new screen. I still have a few issues, non-screen related, to deal with before my new system is optimized.

Well I got my samples yesterday and must say i was impressed with the high power even with my sanyo plv-z3 off to the side with the lens shift it still looked very good all the way at the other angle, and near the projector is amazing, definitely blows the greywolf out of the water, no sparklies like i saw on the video spectra sample..only question now is, do i get the model b or c, i was going to get a model b deluxe till i found out you cant flush mount and then was thinking the model c, but i probably raised my screen 2 times in a year with my grey wolf, so i think i might just go with the model B, since this sucker wont be raised in 12 months anyways.

Joe,

This may be a silly ? but was the SS sample oriented correctly? Before I bought my screen I got a sample from Vutec and it was in a 16:9 format. On the back were directoinal arrows to make sure that it was properly positioned for testing. I'm sure you had it correct but out of curiosity would you try turning the sample on it's side and describe what it looks like. Thanks.

True gain on the SS is about 2.4, so twice as bright as the Firehawk seems about right. I went from a Firehawk to the SS and have been ecstatic about the results. My next plan is to try the High Power.

Free,

Where did you hear that? That is the first time I've ever seen anyone say the gain is that low. I've always read 2.8 - 3.0 but know of no actual measurements on the SS. I currently don't have a way to measure mine but accurate info would be helpful regarding application of ND filters and other setup aspects. Thanks.

Free,

Where did you hear that? That is the first time I've ever seen anyone say the gain is that low. I've always read 2.8 - 3.0 but know of no actual measurements on the SS. I currently don't have a way to measure mine but accurate info would be helpful regarding application of ND filters and other setup aspects. Thanks.

Took some digging, but I found where I read it.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_screens_brightness.htm

It correlates with what I have observed as well.

smithfarmer: What projector are you using and screen? I have a sample of a Vutec SS coming and I currently have samples from DA-Lite. Same with speaker listening I am finding out screen choices are subjective to what "ones eyes like" so far I did not like any of the 3 samples in comparison to the older Vutec Britewhite I have. The only thing I did notice about the HP, is it made the whites on the womens eyes in the movie "Kindom of Heaven" Blu-Ray movie look whiter, but not by much and the rest of the picture seemed darker. I should have the Vutec SS here next week along with some Stweart samples.

Free: Thanks for posting that link, it is useful. Not a big fan of Projectorcentral because they flip flop on there reviews a lot. But they do have some useful info. The Studiotek/SS or even the Firehawk SST might be some different ways to go, Stewart was very helpful on the phone when I called as was Vutec.

Took some digging, but I found where I read it.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_screens_brightness.htm

It correlates with what I have observed as well.
Free,

Thanks for the link. I must say that I don't put a lot of faith in PC but I'll give them the benefit of doubt here. Maybe tryg will take some measurements when he gets back from CES and post the results.

smithfarmer: What projector are you using and screen?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7433773&&#post7433773

It's my first pj and I've had it around 2 years. Time to upgrade and I'm currently on the RS1 preorder list.

That's exactly what my setup will probably look like. I am thinking to get an adjustable pole for my Chief RPA-U mount I got for my RS1 on preorder. When I have several friends and need that extra seat, I will lift the projector up by a feet or two.

I actually bought two Chief poles - one only three inches long for company time. The other is a CMS-012-018, which adds an adjustable 12"-18" drop. For those looking, Chief has two lines, CMA and CMS. The A series is simpler and cheaper, while the S series adds quick adjust capabilities and cable channeling.

Joe,

This may be a silly ? but was the SS sample oriented correctly? Before I bought my screen I got a sample from Vutec and it was in a 16:9 format. On the back were directoinal arrows to make sure that it was properly positioned for testing. I'm sure you had it correct but out of curiosity would you try turning the sample on it's side and describe what it looks like. Thanks.

Yes, the SS was oriented properly. I put it on its side and as you might expect, the gain changed as you moved left to right in the room. Move one direction and it darkens, move the other and it brightens slowly to full gain.

Joe,

Like I said earlier, I figured you had it correct. When you posted that your sample was a 4:3 AR, the thought crossed my mind that maybe there was a bad batch of samples. Mistakes do happen on occasion ;)

Interesting that when put on the side it behaves like the HP. Curiosity has gotten the better of me and now I'll have to break out my old sample to see this in action. :D

smithfarmer: sweet setup, this will be my 4th projector, had the 10HT Sony/HS20 the HS51 and now the Pearl. Never had any issues with any of them, usually upgrade around every 3 years. Was looking at the RS1, but "I have not seen it" so I ordered the Pearl, similar to what is going on here, a lot of people talking what looks great is fine, makes it easier to narrow things down, but just like speakers, you need to hear them first before you buy, with projectors and screens you need to see them before you buy. I didn't see that much of a difference with the HP and my current view tech, which I had a bigger piece to compare, but I only saw very marginal differences. I am waiting for Stewart samples and the Vutec and should make my the call next week.... Great screen shots of your system, we watch movies mostly in the dark but occasionally we have one light on in back.

Garmen,

Thanks for the kind words. I totally agree with seeing/hearing is believing but I must admit that I jumped the gun with the SS as I didn't wait for more samples to compare it with. If I had it to do over though I'd still pick the SS. Very happy with it. Everyone perceptions are different and all I can say is that it's great we have the choices that are available. :)

There were a few people claiming the SS totally washed out with any kind of ambient light and I felt the SS was being unjustly maligned. So those screenshots were taken to illustrate how it performs under differing amounts of ambient lighting and as you can see, it does quite well.

smithfarmer,

Are going to mount the RS1 directly infront of the screen and use the HP or are you going to ceiling mount the HP and not get the full gain out of the HP? I am on the RS1 preorder also and am considering the HP and ceiling mounting the unit based on someone elses recommendation. Just curious for your thought on this as I am not completely convinced about this setup. Another issue in my case is that this will be a drop down screen and not fixed.

smithfarmer: I take it all back what I said about the DA-LITE HS... Fricking wow!!!I am viewing some 1080p screen shots and it looks awesome, I was viewing it too close, I finally stepped back to my sitting position and bingo... Wow... More punch to the picture and that is what I was looking for. Basically it is like putting the Pearl I am using in High light mode without effecting the black levels. This is the winner so far for me, but I have other samples coming soon from Stewart and Vutec. My only concern is when I stand up the sample piece gets brighter.

Garman,

What is your veiwing angle? I am probably looking at about a 15 to 17 degree viewing angle and am wondering if this is really the way to go form my setup as I am limited someone on screen materials due to my setup being a drop down. I have also heard the HP is less prone to waves than other materials and that is also a factor for me.

Thanks

spann-man: Viewing angle isn't bad at all on my setup, the only thing I did notice about the HP is when I stood up it got brighter, which seemed odd, because then I was looking down at the sample piece.

I am just about to order one of these, and I have a sample on the way. Are there any thoughts as to the advantages, or lack of difference between the varying housing options for this material?

I am looking at Fixed, Manually Retractable, and Electric screen solutions, and am hearing that this material does not need tensioning, but I am concerned, because I hated the wrinkles in my Firehawk, so I don't want to end up with something that is bothering me.

I am just about to order one of these, and I have a sample on the way. Are there any thoughts as to the advantages, or lack of difference between the varying housing options for this material?

I am looking at Fixed, Manually Retractable, and Electric screen solutions, and am hearing that this material does not need tensioning, but I am concerned, because I hated the wrinkles in my Firehawk, so I don't want to end up with something that is bothering me.

My Firehawk is virtually perfect with the frame I chose. That was about 5 years ago, when Stewart first introduced it. I chose the Cinema Contour with Pro-Trim for the HP that I just ordered, because it looked as though that fixed frame style would be very close to the FH in appearance. I read a post about someone having trouble getting the snaps to fit on his HP Da-Lite fixed frame. Since it's such a rigid fabric, that could be a real problem. I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet for the HP, but it's going up just about as soon as it gets here. I'll report back.

My Firehawk, was an electric tensioned retractable. Although the tensioning worked, it was not perfect, especially if I rolled it up. I would spend hours using a hair dryer, to try to get the wrinkles out after it had been rolled up for a while.

I would go fixed, but I want to keep my Silverstar behind it for when I have a full room with off angle viewing.

I would go fixed, but I want to keep my Silverstar behind it for when I have a full room with off angle viewing.
Same here, I plan on using the SS for 16:9 content and the HP will be strictly for 2.35:1 movies.

Viewing angle isn't bad at all on my setup, the only thing I did notice about the HP is when I stood up it got brighter, which seemed odd, because then I was looking down at the sample piece.
Is your pj is ceiling mounted? If it is, that is the reason why it gets brighter when you stand up as your eyes are closer to the pj and the retro-reflective nature of the HP is directing the light back towards where it came from.


smithfarmer,

Are going to mount the RS1 directly infront of the screen and use the HP or are you going to ceiling mount the HP and not get the full gain out of the HP?
The RS1 will definitely be ceiling mounted as I want it up and out of the way. I am curious to hear how Joe's setup works out since that might be a viable option.

It will a couple of months before I do anything concerning the HP screen as I have to wait for the RS1 to ship and then put some time on the lamp before sending it out for calibration.

smithfarmer: You got it PJ is about 3-4 feet above my head (Ceiling mount) ...... I have other samples coming next week. My frickin Direct TV Tivo unit died so I am in process of fixing that while I look for screens. So far the SS looks great, just wondering if the HP will be problematic if the brightness changes that much from differnet viewing angles.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. I will have the RS1 about 4 feet above my head as several others have stated. My veiwing angle will be roughly 15 degrees (waiting on info on the RS1 mount). I will give up most of the gain of the HP but at worse it will be a 1.0 gain at most veiwing positions?? At least the 1.3 gain would help some and be similar in gain to a Studiotek 130 which is what I was leaning toward before.

Being out of the veiwing cone, I assume that will also elimiate any potential hotspotting. Are there any other issues to be concerned with re: the HP if you are outside of the viewing cone. Any other suggestions on alterative high gain screens for a manual/electric dropdown for this application. Prefer not to spend a ton as it is a short term installations as I will move in the next 2 years and plan to go to a fixed screen at that point.

spann-man: It was my understanding that the HP Da-Lite is 2.8 gain, of course this changes on depending on setup etc.. I have a fixed screen and I am looking at high gain screen for the Sony Pearl, so far the HP is the best I have seen so far. There is a Vutec coming soon, that I will try, the SS.

Today I ordered a High Power Screen from Da-lite and I should have it in about two weeks. After reading TRYG's comments/review and seeing the accompanying screen shots, I just had to have it. I probably should have asked some questions about proper setup first and now I am wondering if made a mistake. I have a low ceiling ( six feet, nine inches or 81 inches total). My Proj is ceiling mounted and has a 115 degree offset which, I understand, means that the image is projected downward about 15 inches from the center of the proj lens. I am not sure, but this offset is not something I can eliminate. This brings me to my dilema: Since I have to live with the offset, I can't table mount becasue the image would be too low and I cetainly don't have the height to even think about it. I keep reading that table mounting is ideal for high power, but is there any way my setup could possibly work with a ceiling mount?

The rest of my set up is this: On my 81 inch high wall/sceen, and with tilting the proj upward a bit, the top of the image is 8 inches from the ceiling while the bottom of the image is 11 inches from the floor. The Proj is installed about five inches down from the ceiling. My seating arrangement is such that the Proj is about about two feet behind and three feet above my head. I would really appreciate any comment from Tryg or anyone else on this matter.


Thanks, Milit

I can't wait to get the HP! Tonight I experimented a little more with my Sharp 20000 projector and was getting very good brightness in High Contrast mode (iris closed fully), with the lamp set to high, on the Firehawk. With the HP and the close-to-eye-level I'll be able to set it, I should have plenty of brightness in economy lamp mode (saving roughly 1000 hours on the lamp life) and maximum contrast. With the cost of the Sharp lamp ($600), that makes the HP an even better investment. If I always use the Sharp in high lamp mode, by the time it gets to 1500 hours, the image will be unacceptably dim. In economy mode, the lamp maintains more of an even brightness over its lifetime, which should be extended from 2000 to 3000 hours. Add to this the ability to adjust gain for the HP simply by raising and lowering the projector and it begins to look like a way of keeping fairly uniform brightness over a lamp's life, while at the same time saving money on lamps. (We'll see if this theory plays out in real life.)

If I can get hold of a digital camera, I'd like to do a few comparison shots between the SS and the HP. Depending on the orientation, you get radically different impressions with the HP sample flat on top of the larger SS sample. Put your head near the light source (retro-reflective posture) and the HP looks like a snowy field next to a dull gray strip. Move your head down and orient the SS for maximum gain (angular-reflective posture) and the SS has the advantage in brightness. All in all, though, if you can get the right angle, I still prefer the HP for whiteness/brightness. If the surface is as uniform as reported, I know I'm going to love it.

Today I ordered a High Power Screen from Da-lite and I should have it in about two weeks. After reading TRYG's comments/review and seeing the accompanying screen shots, I just had to have it. I probably should have asked some questions about proper setup first and now I am wondering if made a mistake. I have a low ceiling ( six feet, nine inches or 81 inches total). My Proj is ceiling mounted and has a 115 degree offset which, I understand, means that the image is projected downward about 15 inches from the center of the proj lens. I am not sure, but this offset is not something I can eliminate. This brings me to my dilema: Since I have to live with the offset, I can't table mount becasue the image would be too low and I cetainly don't have the height to even think about it. I keep reading that table mounting is ideal for high power, but is there any way my setup could possibly work with a ceiling mount?

The rest of my set up is this: On my 81 inch high wall/sceen, and with tilting the proj upward a bit, the top of the image is 8 inches from the ceiling while the bottom of the image is 11 inches from the floor. The Proj is installed about five inches down from the ceiling. My seating arrangement is such that the Proj is about about two feet behind and three feet above my head. I would really appreciate any comment from Tryg or anyone else on this matter.


Thanks, Milit
How far back from the screen is your seating. We can calculate the gain with that and the distance between your eyes and the projector.

Milit: I have almost a similar setup I was impressed with how much gain you get, but my PJ is about my head about 3-4 feet, and my projector does also project down, and I notice when I stand up the sample piece got much brighter, so I have some concerns about ordering this screen and will look into some other options before I decide.

Thanl you for suppling the retroreflecting gain curves on the highpower Da-lite. I am going to a 2:35 screen which will be 49 by 115 inches from my 49 by 87 inch Stewart Firehawk. I have considered a curved screen but thought that a retro-reflective screen would be better for ambient light rejection. the reflective screen is fine but as you go to a wider viewing angle the light will reflect horizontally away from you and a curved screen become almost a necessity. the curved screen are not curved enough to direct the normal of the screen surface toward the center of your seating position.

I have my screen in th eliving room and most of the ambient light is coming from the side windows. the projector sits two feet above my head and I am 14ft from the screen. this gives me a 10 degree viewing angle.

thanks again

How far back from the screen is your seating. We can calculate the gain with that and the distance between your eyes and the projector.

Imageek2, thanks for responding. My seating position is 14 feet from the screen.

Milit

Milit: I have almost a similar setup I was impressed with how much gain you get, but my PJ is about my head about 3-4 feet, and my projector does also project down, and I notice when I stand up the sample piece got much brighter, so I have some concerns about ordering this screen and will look into some other options before I decide.

Garman, I noticed the increased in brightness when I stand up too. However, the sample was still noticeably brighter thant my present screen (goo paint) and all the other samples I had up. It was also clear that colors were much more vibrant on the HP. Dark scenes did seem a bit washed out though, but I don't know if that is attributable to the size of the sample as compared to the background surface. I hope I have made the right choice. BTW, what other screens are you considering?

Those of you who got samples, how fast did you get them after requesting them from Da-lite. I want to get my screen ordered, but need to wait for the sample to be sure it is the right thing to do.

Those of you who got samples, how fast did you get them after requesting them from Da-lite. I want to get my screen ordered, but need to wait for the sample to be sure it is the right thing to do.

Freee, I sent an e-mail requesting samples and seven days later I had them--lots of them--and I live in Canada. Hope you get yours soon.

Those of you who got samples, how fast did you get them after requesting them from Da-lite. I want to get my screen ordered, but need to wait for the sample to be sure it is the right thing to do.

Mine came in just 2-3 days.

Cool guy's, Thanks. :)

milit: Considering Vutec SS screen, might be way too bright for my environment, we will see sample coming soon along with some pieces from Stewart. Studiotek and a few others. The only thing I am worried about is that if I go with the HP that it will look brighter in one area verses another and won't be uniform, I am about 15 feet away, PJ is 3 feet above my head. Current Vutec looks good, but I wan't something with more pop too it. Using a Sony Pearl which I am very impressed with.

milit: Considering Vutec SS screen, might be way too bright for my environment, we will see sample coming soon along with some pieces from Stewart. Studiotek and a few others. The only thing I am worried about is that if I go with the HP that it will look brighter in one area verses another and won't be uniform, I am about 15 feet away, PJ is 3 feet above my head. Current Vutec looks good, but I wan't something with more pop too it. Using a Sony Pearl which I am very impressed with.

I hope the brightness doesn't vary from one part of the screen to another. If so, it goes against what a lot of people here have claimed is one of the screen's strengths. It may dim from one angle to another, but it's supposed to dim evenly across the screen - without hotspotting. One thing I think I can tell from the holding the SS and the HP samples together and moving them around at relative angles to the light is that this seems to be the case with the HP. The SS, on the other hand, looks as though it might be uneven. There's definitely a sheen that isn't present with the HP. If you get samples of both, try superimposing the HP on top of the larger SS sample and move it around. I think you'll be surprised how evenly the HP changes.

I just found out something about the HP and SS. I got a smudge on the HP, so I brought in a cloth and some water and wiped it off. At first, it looked as though it would leave awful streaks, but it dried perfectly. OTOH, I applied a little fingernail to what looked like a tiny black spot on the surface. Big mistake - permanently scratched, and not with a lot of effort. That spot, though, was an actual flaw in the surface - a superficial "tear." When I tried to duplicate the scratch in a different area, I couldn't do it, even with a lot more fingernail force applied. I thought the SS looked more immune to such attacks, so I scratched away just as with the HP. The marks my nail left were obvious - as though I had buffed shiny a dull finish. The HP was actually a little more immune to such abrasions than the SS, but I wouldn't want to have a rowdy bunch of kids too near either of them. I suppose that's true of all screens, though.

Trying to get a hold of samples let alone trying to find anywhere who has a whole screen is almost impossible here in Perth Australia. Need to find someone who has a HP and SS sample they no longer need who would be willing to ship for me (i'll pay for postage of course).

Shipping a hp will more than likley be cheaper because it can be rolled up but with my hs50 roof mounted and seating I may have to get the SS.

How bad and how many people see sparklies.

Imageek2, thanks for responding. My seating position is 14 feet from the screen.

Milit
At 14 ' back and 36" from eyes to projector you will be around a 12 degree viewing angle. You should see some very nice gain with the HP, lots of pop.

At 14 ' back and 36" from eyes to projector you will be around a 12 degree viewing angle. You should see some very nice gain with the HP, lots of pop.

Thanks Imageek, I don't know how you calculated the above but it sounds great. I can't wait to get my screen and put it to the test. I am so afraid I might have to watch all my movies all over again since the HP seems to reveal so much more details that was previously hidden.

I just found out something about the HP and SS. I got a smudge on the HP, so I brought in a cloth and some water and wiped it off. At first, it looked as though it would leave awful streaks, but it dried perfectly. OTOH, I applied a little fingernail to what looked like a tiny black spot on the surface. Big mistake - permanently scratched, and not with a lot of effort. That spot, though, was an actual flaw in the surface - a superficial "tear." When I tried to duplicate the scratch in a different area, I couldn't do it, even with a lot more fingernail force applied. I thought the SS looked more immune to such attacks, so I scratched away just as with the HP. The marks my nail left were obvious - as though I had buffed shiny a dull finish. The HP was actually a little more immune to such abrasions than the SS, but I wouldn't want to have a rowdy bunch of kids too near either of them. I suppose that's true of all screens, though.

Joseph Clark, this is good to know. I will be very careful around the HP

milit: Considering Vutec SS screen, might be way too bright for my environment, we will see sample coming soon along with some pieces from Stewart. Studiotek and a few others. The only thing I am worried about is that if I go with the HP that it will look brighter in one area verses another and won't be uniform, I am about 15 feet away, PJ is 3 feet above my head. Current Vutec looks good, but I wan't something with more pop too it. Using a Sony Pearl which I am very impressed with.

Garman, I was interested in the SS too but the price ruled it out. I hope the HP has uniform brightness because that would be unbearable. From what I have read that doesn't seem to be a trait though. I guess I will find out in about a week or so.

I just got tracking confirmation that my screen arrived this evening in Fort Wayne, Indiana, not too far from St. Louis. It should be here by the end of the week. It's going up ASAP. My Chief mounting gear should be here soon, too, but I don't know if it will come in time to put it up this weekend. I won't be able to tell too much, but one experiment I intend to try is placing the HP and the Firehawk side by side for a while to see how they compare with the projector in its current position (high shelf mount, about 7' high and just below the top of the screen - my head at about the bottom of the screen - 110" screen). That'll give me a good idea about HP gain in a less than optimal arrangement.

milit/Joeseph Clark: Well I did a extensive screen test last night, if you could call it that with the limited about of material they give you ;) Stewart was very kind and sent me 5 different pieces of screen material. Studiotek 130, Ultramatte 130,150, 200 and Firekhawk SST and then I had a couple from DA-LITE and the Vutec SS.. I must say which I found odd, is that all the pieces from Stewart didn't seem to make any improvements to the picture at all, in fact the Studiotek 130 and my current Vutec where so close I could not tell the difference. The brightest of course was the VuTec SS and a very very close second was the DA-LITE HP, it was a toss up between these two, but the DA-Lite HP won me over because it did not have that sheen on bright sceens in movies and pictures, used Blu-Ray as source material and some high-Res pictures.. So it looks like I will be going the HP route with a thicker boarder....

Just got the HP and replaced a similar sized 106" Optoma Graywolf mated with the Sony Pearl.
The HP is just an impressive screen. The smoothness and corner to corner consistency is just amazing.

All the chatter about the cone has been interesting but the Graywolf actually showed more change in moving around than the HP based on my room setup: 30 feet long by 11 feet wide. Obviously my room is just about perfect for the HP due to its narrow width but thus far all I can say is there is no hype to the value and performance of Da-lite's HP.

It's that good.

romanesq - How is your PJ mounted and what's the distance from the viewer to the lens? Still stuck on what to do with the new RS1 and figured out a way to shelf mount at the back of the room if I had to...

I just got tracking confirmation that my screen arrived this evening in Fort Wayne, Indiana, not too far from St. Louis. It should be here by the end of the week. It's going up ASAP. My Chief mounting gear should be here soon, too, but I don't know if it will come in time to put it up this weekend. I won't be able to tell too much, but one experiment I intend to try is placing the HP and the Firehawk side by side for a while to see how they compare with the projector in its current position (high shelf mount, about 7' high and just below the top of the screen - my head at about the bottom of the screen - 110" screen). That'll give me a good idea about HP gain in a less than optimal arrangement.

Joseph Clark, I hope you get your screen by the weekend so you can conduct your experiments/comparisons. If you get the chance, please post some pics.

milit/Joeseph Clark: Well I did a extensive screen test last night, if you could call it that with the limited about of material they give you ;) Stewart was very kind and sent me 5 different pieces of screen material. Studiotek 130, Ultramatte 130,150, 200 and Firekhawk SST and then I had a couple from DA-LITE and the Vutec SS.. I must say which I found odd, is that all the pieces from Stewart didn't seem to make any improvements to the picture at all, in fact the Studiotek 130 and my current Vutec where so close I could not tell the difference. The brightest of course was the VuTec SS and a very very close second was the DA-LITE HP, it was a toss up between these two, but the DA-Lite HP won me over because it did not have that sheen on bright sceens in movies and pictures, used Blu-Ray as source material and some high-Res pictures.. So it looks like I will be going the HP route with a thicker boarder....

Hi garman, it's reassuring to hear that the HP performed so well as I should be receiving mine in about a week or so. I just can't wait.

Just got the HP and replaced a similar sized 106" Optoma Graywolf mated with the Sony Pearl.
The HP is just an impressive screen. The smoothness and corner to corner consistency is just amazing.

All the chatter about the cone has been interesting but the Graywolf actually showed more change in moving around than the HP based on my room setup: 30 feet long by 11 feet wide. Obviously my room is just about perfect for the HP due to its narrow width but thus far all I can say is there is no hype to the value and performance of Da-lite's HP.

It's that good.

Interesting that your room size is just about the same as mine. From your comments, I am even more excited about getting my HP.

Joseph Clark, I hope you get your screen by the weekend so you can conduct your experiments/comparisons. If you get the chance, please post some pics.

I'll try to get hold of a digital camera. Mine is on the fritz right now.

Interesting that your room size is just about the same as mine. From your comments, I am even more excited about getting my HP.

You have absolutely nothing to be concerned about then. Of the few screens I've used, the HP is absolutely superb in its consistency across the board. And that's my most neutral endorsement.

I'm much more impressed with it. :cool:

You have absolutely nothing to be concerned about then. Of the few screens I've used, the HP is absolutely superb in its consistency across the board. And that's my most neutral endorsement.

I'm much more impressed with it. :cool:

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

milit: I will be ordering mine this week, I have a narrow room and I won't have the problem of it falling off viewing from the side. The only thing that concerns me, I have no keystoning yet but might have to with this next screen since it is larger and the PJ will have to be pointed down more now. Still the brightness is about double or more as is, just hope it doesn't drop off too much because I have to change the degree of viewing,

I am considering the HP with an RS1 ceiling mounted (not ideal, I know) in a non-dedicated room with white cielings. Any thoughts and to advantages/disadvantages as to how the HP will be affected by the reflections off of the cieling. I am assuming that the HP will be better at rejecting this stray light but would just like someone to confirm.

Thanks

spann-man: Depending on your environment the HP will be a good fit with the RS-1, that being said the Sony and RS-1 have low lumens so one would think these types of screens could only help. If I didn't have such bad luck with JVC products in the past, I might have boughten the RS-1... The SS would also work well even in ambient light, some one posted some good pics of light changes and what the SS looks like and it did a great job, the only problem I have with the SS screen is you need to be sitting back about 20 feet otherwise you see the sheen affect is what I call it in the screen. Good luck.........

It will do the best of reflecting ceiling reflections. After you get it and fall in love with it. Then paint the room a little darker. You'll add $10,000 to the performance of your system.

Make sure you mount the projector as far back as you can and as low as you can

Welcome back, Tryg. There's been a lot of activity here since you ducked into CES.

Tryg,

I assume you meant to say it would do the best job of "rejecting" ceiling reflections. I will probably have about a 15 degree veiwing angle with the projector depending upon the mount which should give me a little gain at worst. Another reason I am looking at the HP is its ability to resist waves in the screen.

I know this is off topic but is there a ceiling mount that would work with the RS-1 that would allow it to rotate or telescope down a few feet during operation and be raised back up for storage? It would have to be sturdy and lock into the same position each time. This might be an option to get the most out of the HP.

Thanks

... I know this is off topic but is there a ceiling mount that would work with the RS-1 that would allow it to rotate or telescope down a few feet during operation and be raised back up for storage? ...
You might want to investigate Draper scissor lifts. I used a SL8 with my G90. Now Draper makes less expensive models that work with lighter projectors. AVS is a Draper dealer.

Tryg,

I assume you meant to say it would do the best job of "rejecting" ceiling reflections. I will probably have about a 15 degree veiwing angle with the projector depending upon the mount which should give me a little gain at worst. Another reason I am looking at the HP is its ability to resist waves in the screen.

I know this is off topic but is there a ceiling mount that would work with the RS-1 that would allow it to rotate or telescope down a few feet during operation and be raised back up for storage? It would have to be sturdy and lock into the same position each time. This might be an option to get the most out of the HP.

Thanks

Or check out Chiefmfg.com. Someone provided me with the link and I found just what I was looking for there. Be aware that they have two basic series of mounts - CMA and CMS. The CMA series is more basic, but the CMS uses what they call Speed-Connect, which allows for quicker changes. That's what I ordered. It should be here next week.

I lost about 5 pounds tonight getting the High Power screen attached to a Cinema Contour frame. I have to say that the fit and finish of the Firehawk is much better than the High Power. Holes don't quite line up exactly, and following the directions for mounting the screen to the frame left me huffing and puffing, not to mention dripping sweat all over the thing.

The first snaps go on pretty easily, but according to the instructions you're supposed to attach all the snaps while the screen and the frame are on a clean surface. I prepared the floor and tried to do as the instructions indicated. Half an hour later, with only about a third of the snaps in place, I gave up and leaned the frame and screen carefully against the the wall, with the snaps already attached along the top and the the black screen surface facing out. Getting the remainder of the snaps to fit was pretty easy after that. I might have had a stroke if I'd continued to try to do it the way the instructions indicated.

After all that, I didn't have time to mount it on the wall. That's tomorrow, if we don't lose our power here in St. Louis with the ice storm moving in.

Tryg, your review is very exciting to read. I just purchased a Sanyo Z5 and am about to get a screen, Until reading this thread, I was planning for a Carada BW, but the Da-Lite sounds like something I should really be looking at. My question is, if I get a 120 inch HP and the seating are is around 12 feet from the screen (with the projector shelf-mounted behind us), is there a chanace that the HP will be *too* bright in that situation (as in, either uncomfrotable or distorting)?

I lost about 5 pounds tonight getting the High Power screen attached to a Cinema Contour frame. I have to say that the fit and finish of the Firehawk is much better than the High Power. Holes don't quite line up exactly, and following the directions for mounting the screen to the frame left me huffing and puffing, not to mention dripping sweat all over the thing.

The first snaps go on pretty easily, but according to the instructions you're supposed to attach all the snaps while the screen and the frame are on a clean surface. I prepared the floor and tried to do as the instructions indicated. Half an hour later, with only about a third of the snaps in place, I gave up and leaned the frame and screen carefully against the the wall, with the snaps already attached along the top and the the black screen surface facing out. Getting the remainder of the snaps to fit was pretty easy after that. I might have had a stroke if I'd continued to try to do it the way the instructions indicated.

After all that, I didn't have time to mount it on the wall. That's tomorrow, if we don't lose our power here in St. Louis with the ice storm moving in.


Joseph Clark, I am gald you got your screen in time for the weekend, however, I am sorrry about the problems you encountered while mounting it. I hope this is not a common occurrence. Don't forget to report back once you get things sorted out.

Tryg: What screen where you talking about in your last post? HP or SS? I have low ceilings white walls for now, that is changing this summer. Projector is right above our heads and about 15 feet from the screen. I tried all shorts of other materials and the only things that made a huge improvement where the HS and SS, the SS had a tad more brightness but had a sheen to it that I did not like on bright scenes in movies etc... The only thing I notices about the HP is it brightened up a tad when standing up, but had a smoother film like performance to it.. Ironically I did not notice any difference between the VuTec Bright White Easy Vu and the Stewart Studiotek 130. Thanks again for the good thread on screens and everyones input!

Joseph Clark, I am gald you got your screen in time for the weekend, however, I am sorrry about the problems you encountered while mounting it. I hope this is not a common occurrence. Don't forget to report back once you get things sorted out.

My fingers are still sore from struggling with the snaps. Here's the funny thing, though - once I got most of the top row snaps in place and turned the screen on edge, against the wall, it was easy. (Of course I struggled for over half an hour before I decided I had to try something different.) I could see what I was doing and I could get a good grip. Trying to follow the directions (with the screen and the frame flat on the floor) made it very difficult after the first snaps were in place. I just had to be careful not to let the screen fold or fall against anything sharp. Maybe that's what they are afraid of, but the directions made the assembly almost impossible. Today I have to clean the dried sweat from the screen. Experience with the sample tells me that should be easy.

I hesitate to say all this, for fear someone will try what I did and have a scratched screen on their hands. I'd be interested in finding out how attaching the screen to the frame went for others who are using a Cinema Contour.

I should also mention that it took just about a minute or two to get the rest of the snaps in place once I repositioned the frame against a wall. (I put some of the flexible foam packing on the frame so its coating wouldn't rub off against the wall.) Also, it looks every bit as good as the Stewart Firehawk did when I set it up - smooth and wrinkle free. And the HP has a black screen backing, while the Firehawk doesn't (at least mine doesn't).

i had similar problems i have a permwall mount 133 diag. snaps were very difficult to get on . good thing with permwall frame is attached to wall so yo you don't have to lay screen on floor and risk scratching it. i attached the top snaps first then let material hang an went around an snapped the rest. yes i also had sweat drip on screen . maybe they need to package a sweat band with screen like carada give you cotton gloves. i also took a large pair of long nose pliers covered them with a rubber strip and used this to pull the screen hard and another person to push the snap down . as the frame was firmly fixed to the wall thru studs the frame did not flex or give . the end result is perfect no waves i cant believe the people who cut the material themselves and stretch it pull it anywere near as tight. also when i spoke to dalite they said make sure the screen is warm before stretching

Wow, sounds like a nightmare!!! I haven't had the previlege of installing my screen as yet but when I receive my HP in about a week, at least I know what to expect. I have the Permwall on order. If there are any other tips to make this any easier, please post!!!!!!!

Thanks.

i had similar problems i have a permwall mount 133 diag. snaps were very difficult to get on . good thing with permwall frame is attached to wall so yo you don't have to lay screen on floor and risk scratching it. i attached the top snaps first then let material hang an went around an snapped the rest. yes i also had sweat drip on screen . maybe they need to package a sweat band with screen like carada give you cotton gloves. i also took a large pair of long nose pliers covered them with a rubber strip and used this to pull the screen hard and another person to push the snap down . as the frame was firmly fixed to the wall thru studs the frame did not flex or give . the end result is perfect no waves i cant believe the people who cut the material themselves and stretch it pull it anywere near as tight. also when i spoke to dalite they said make sure the screen is warm before stretching

Just to be clear, the screen is face up on the floor when you're doing all this, not face down. I can't imagine the damage you'd inflict on the screen and the frame if they were face down. I wouldn't call it a nightmare, but it would have been if I'd continued to struggle with trying to get the snaps in place in its original orientation on the floor. If you can get it up on edge when the screen is secure enough not to bend and sway against the wall or objects in the room, it becomes quite easy. The end result looks great.

One other note - the HP is indeed going to be flat against the wall when I'm finished. The Stewart screen actually protrudes from the wall, since its mounting hardware is substantially different than the Da-Lite hardware. The Da-Lite hardware is extremely simple for my 110" screen - one long bracket (wall mounted) at the top, that the frame slips onto via a groove in the frame's back, and two small brackets attached to the bottom of the frame that screw into the wall.

Joe, Can you tell how far out from the wall the screen material is when you have mounted the frame right against the wall? (I have to mount mine over a window frame, so will need to use some wooden spacer blocks, and thus need to decide how thick they need to be so that the screen material clears the window frame.) Bill

Can you put the edge of the frame against the wall, while still laying flat on the floor, or slightly tilted, or is there an advantage to having it completely vertical when pulling the material?

I ask, because I am going to be getting a fixed one, and want to be prepared once I get it.

Of course, I am still waiting for my sample material... over a week now, so I haven't ordered the screen yet. :(

Joe, Can you tell how far out from the wall the screen material is when you have mounted the frame right against the wall? (I have to mount mine over a window frame, so will need to use some wooden spacer blocks, and thus need to decide how thick they need to be so that the screen material clears the window frame.) Bill

The screen fabric attaches directly to the back of the frame with snaps. I won't be able to put it up until later today (if all goes well), but it looks like the fabric will be almost flush against the wall. I have a closed air vent behind the Firehawk, so I'll have to do something similar to what you will with the window frame. It has an adjustment lever that sticks out. I may end up using spacers, too.