PowerDVD Ultra (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray)

[yamahaSHO]

Well, for some reason or another, the option for "sdpif" finally appeared and I now have DD and DTS, YAY!

The other issue I have is that I cannot get "Meet the Robinsons" to play without a stutter every second or so. I tried to disable hardware acceleration, however, it will not let me in Power DVD OEM when an HD DVD or Blu-Ray is playing.

Does anyone else have this movie and running well? My specs are as follows:

MSI P6N Diamond
Core2Duo E6750 (stays between 10-20% during HD playback)
Kingston HyperX DDR2 PC6400
EVGA 8800GT SSC (512MB)

Any help is appreciated.

[takisot]

It sounds like you're using Overlay mode. VMR is definitely preferable to show correct colors and brightness. If you were using VMR mode in PowerDVD, then you probably would have already noticed on your desktop that windows colors and pictures would also look too dark in the same fashion.

You can try to force PowerDVD to use VMR in the registry... do a search in this thread.. I think it's mentioned here somewhere.

If you're using VMR already. Then you need to figure out how to fix the brightness on your display.

This is not true. It is not possible to use VMR with Powerdvd, only overlay...

[sarah99]

Well, The Simpsons loads up now and I get to the main DVD menu, but I can't select anything. I tried the mouse, and the IR remote, and I get nothing.

I'm staring (and listening) to Homer snoring and drooling.

Any ideas?

Some HD menu systems make you use the keyboard arrows to navigate

[Socio]

This is not true. It is not possible to use VMR with Powerdvd, only overlay...

There are some VMR settings in the Registry under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\CyberLink\PowerDVD but I do not believe those apply to HD. In fact there is a "DX_HDDVD_VideoRenderer" key just for it, now perhaps changing the parameters for that key can change the renderer not sure though. It could be something like 0 = no renderer, 1 = VMR7, 2 = VMR9 Windowed, 3 = VMR9 Windowless, 4 = Overlay, might be worth experimenting with.

[takisot]

There are some VMR settings in the Registry under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\CyberLink\PowerDVD but I do not believe those apply to HD. In fact there is a "DX_HDDVD_VideoRenderer" key just for it, now perhaps changing the parameters for that key can change the renderer not sure though. It could be something like 0 = no renderer, 1 = VMR7, 2 = VMR9 Windowed, 3 = VMR9 Windowless, 4 = Overlay, might be worth experimenting with.
Anybody tried this with success? (With HD-DVD/BR material of course..)

[AbMagFab]

Some HD menu systems make you use the keyboard arrows to navigate

Nothing works. Nothing is highlighted. Keyboard arrows, Enter, hitting Play, using the IR remote - nothing. Just snoring and drooling and spider-pig.

It plays fine when going through AnyDVD off the LG drive/disc, but it doesn't work when playing the ISO.

I ripped it again (took only 40 minutes this time), and still doesn't work.

Ahhh! Can anyone help out who has successfully ripped The Simpsons Movie and played it back via PowerDVD Ultra?

[sarah99]

Ahhh! Can anyone help out who has successfully ripped The Simpsons Movie and played it back via PowerDVD Ultra?

I have ripped it and played it, but I am not using an ISO. I use PowerDVD v3319a and just use the files from hard disk.
Versions of PowerDVD after 3319a are to try and stop you bypassing the BD+ protection, looks like they have succeeded.

PS
I don't have a menu, it goes straight from the adverts into the movie
20th century fox Blu-Ray, alvin chipmunk ad, futurama ad, EPA disclaimer, 20th century fox Simpson's movie

Curious thing, In Vista 32 it only plays using 3319, in XP 3104 works (I don't understand??)

[andersa]

Well, for some reason or another, the option for "sdpif" finally appeared and I now have DD and DTS, YAY!

The other issue I have is that I cannot get "Meet the Robinsons" to play without a stutter every second or so. I tried to disable hardware acceleration, however, it will not let me in Power DVD OEM when an HD DVD or Blu-Ray is playing.

Does anyone else have this movie and running well? My specs are as follows:

MSI P6N Diamond
Core2Duo E6750 (stays between 10-20% during HD playback)
Kingston HyperX DDR2 PC6400
EVGA 8800GT SSC (512MB)

Any help is appreciated.

I've played Meet The Robinsons without any issues using 3319. HW specs similar to yours.

/Anders

[AbMagFab]

I have ripped it and played it, but I am not using an ISO. I use PowerDVD v3319a and just use the files from hard disk.
Versions of PowerDVD after 3319a are to try and stop you bypassing the BD+ protection, looks like they have succeeded.

PS
I don't have a menu, it goes straight from the adverts into the movie
20th century fox Blu-Ray, alvin chipmunk ad, futurama ad, EPA disclaimer, 20th century fox Simpson's movie

Curious thing, In Vista 32 it only plays using 3319, in XP 3104 works (I don't understand??)

Okay, I'll try again. I keep selecting "Top Menu" to bypass all the adverts. That being said, top menu works fine when playing from the BD itself, just not in PDVD.

Can you try the "Top Menu" and see if you get the same problem I do? I just want to see if this is solvable or not.

I'm using 3319a also.

[skibum5000]

Well, for some reason or another, the option for "sdpif" finally appeared and I now have DD and DTS, YAY!

The other issue I have is that I cannot get "Meet the Robinsons" to play without a stutter every second or so. I tried to disable hardware acceleration, however, it will not let me in Power DVD OEM when an HD DVD or Blu-Ray is playing.

Does anyone else have this movie and running well? My specs are as follows:

MSI P6N Diamond
Core2Duo E6750 (stays between 10-20% during HD playback)
Kingston HyperX DDR2 PC6400
EVGA 8800GT SSC (512MB)

Any help is appreciated.

once long ago under vista i got stuttering if the digital out was not set at 48khz i think.

recently with some blurays (seems mostly new avc especially with also lossless compressed tracks) i got that and for some reason running anydvdhd in teh background (start it up first before the movie) cured it. not 100% sure why. i was much closer to the 100% cpu limit though so it might just be that it saved some cpu cycles. probably won't help you, but you could try the demo if you don't have it already if nothing else works.

[sarah99]

Can you try the "Top Menu" and see if you get the same problem I do? I just want to see if this is solvable or not.

I'm using 3319a also.

Top Menu, First Play and Resume are greyed out on mine and do nothing during any section of the ads or movie.

[xtrips]

Guys, what's all this mumbo jumbo about?
It's been written over and over again.
Do not upgrade PDVD over the version 3104a.
This is the only version that still works with all kind of BD and HD-DVDs, be it from the HDD or the disks themselves.

[kevin_y]

I have the xbox hd dvd drive. Is there a reason why I can't cycle subtitles to off by pressing "u" and I can't "resume playback from last scene" with HD DVDs, while I CAN do both with Blu-ray discs on my Blu-ray drive on the same PC?? This is the reason I'm buying blu-ray discs more often.

[Al Sherwood]

So has anybody tried the ArcSoft Player? I can't seem to find a trial version to give it a go...

http://www.arcsoft.com/products/totalmediaextreme/index.asp

[tsb]

Arcsoft's player is great in CPU decode mode, but hardware acceleration seems to be broken. It will go final soon, so you might as well just wait another week.

The d/l link is in the Arcsoft thread if you can't wait.

[AbMagFab]

Top Menu, First Play and Resume are greyed out on mine and do nothing during any section of the ads or movie.

Weird! When I let it just play, I always end up at the top menu, and have to select something.

Well, I fixed it. I ripped using Read instead of Build in ImgBurn. What do you use?

[Andy o]

Guys, what's all this mumbo jumbo about?
It's been written over and over again.
Do not upgrade PDVD over the version 3104a.
This is the only version that still works with all kind of BD and HD-DVDs, be it from the HDD or the disks themselves.

Nope. There are some movies that won't play with 3104. Off the top of my head I can't remember which one didn't work, but I've been forced to use 3319a, and some say that 3516 plays some 3319a won't. For me, Simpsons works with 3319a, but didn't with 3516. Yes, it's a "#&#% mess.

[Andy o]

Weird! When I let it just play, I always end up at the top menu, and have to select something.

Well, I fixed it. I ripped using Read instead of Build in ImgBurn. What do you use?

That's what you should have been using in the first place. It was said several times before recently. That said, with build, I have successfully converted my HDD folders to ISO, you just need to select UDF only for a file system.

[Al Sherwood]

Arcsoft's player is great in CPU decode mode, but hardware acceleration seems to be broken. It will go final soon, so you might as well just wait another week.

The d/l link is in the Arcsoft thread if you can't wait.

Thanks for the update, I'll swing over to the other thread...

[MKANET]

Wow what a waste of CPU resources... nice.

Arcsoft's player is great in CPU decode mode, but hardware acceleration seems to be broken. It will go final soon, so you might as well just wait another week.

The d/l link is in the Arcsoft thread if you can't wait.

[AbMagFab]

That's what you should have been using in the first place. It was said several times before recently. That said, with build, I have successfully converted my HDD folders to ISO, you just need to select UDF only for a file system.

There was a series of posts (here or elsewhere) that said to use Build directly from the BD/HDDVD setting UDF as the filesystem. Seems to work for everything else.

What's the main difference between Read and Build?

Guess I'll go back and rerip everything... The Simpsons ISO was about 100K different between Read and Build rips... very weird...

[saiga6360]

The difference is Build lets you basically create an ISO from files and folders on the hard drive. You have to manually set to UDF if you are putting together files extracted from BD or HDDVD. Read lets you basically rip the contents of an HD disc straight into an ISO, of course it knows the disc format based on what it is able to read from the source so there is probably no need (or option?) to specify UDF. Doing it this way takes away the need for the middleman AnyDVD HD for ripping to hard disk but leave it running to strip away AACS.

[AbMagFab]

The difference is Build lets you basically create an ISO from files and folders on the hard drive. You have to manually set to UDF if you are putting together files extracted from BD or HDDVD. Read lets you basically rip the contents of an HD disc straight into an ISO, of course it knows the disc format based on what it is able to read from the source so there is probably no need (or option?) to specify UDF. Doing it this way takes away the need for the middleman AnyDVD HD for ripping to hard disk but leave it running to strip away AACS.

Didn't need to do a middle step the other way either:
- AnyDVD running as usual
- ImgBurn: set source = DVD Drive, destination = ISO, in Build mode set to UDF

Works fine most of the time, but there's clearly something a little different as the ISO file size is slightly bigger with Read, and the Simpsons movie only worked with Read, not with Build.

Weird...

[tsb]

I think build mode uses UDF 1.02 but read mode can keep the native UDF 2.5 structure. It seems some Fox BD's won't play unless that structure is kept intact.

[Andy o]

Whenever you can, you probably should use read, since build is like creating a new disc anyway. Like I said, build has worked for me, but I haven't tested a lot of discs, only the movies I already had copied on my HDD. It is far faster to build an ISO from HDD than to re-rip the disc. I haven't tried that on Simpsons or any of the very recent discs, but Ratatouille does work from building an ISO from folders.

[sharangad]

Some people here have been complaining about nVidia video quality being bad on XP with PowerDVD Ultra. Others have claimed there is no difference.

I've had Blu-Ray playback for six months and haven't noticed anything wrong with the picture quality under XP.

I tried an HD DVD and I found that there is horrible aliasing (Transfomers HD-DVD) with the extras disc and some shimmering on the movie iteself at times. The "best" setting for video ( which is also only available for HD-DVD playback ) doesn't seem to fix it.

I think the people who've noticed poor nVidia image quality on XP are HD-DVD users.

[AbMagFab]

Some people here have been complaining about nVidia video quality being bad on XP with PowerDVD Ultra. Others have claimed there is no difference.

I've had Blu-Ray playback for six months and haven't noticed anything wrong with the picture quality under XP.

I tried an HD DVD and I found that there is horrible aliasing (Transfomers HD-DVD) with the extras disc and some shimmering on the movie iteself at times. The "best" setting for video ( which is also only available for HD-DVD playback ) doesn't seem to fix it.

I think the people who've noticed poor nVidia image quality on XP are HD-DVD users.

I turn off all PowerDVD video processing for HD and BD discs. It can only mess up the image.

[sharangad]

I turn off all PowerDVD video processing for HD and BD discs. It can only mess up the image.



This isn't video processing. There's a video quality tab while playing back HD-DVDs in PDVD. This can be set to auto, good, best and so on. Most people on this forum recommend setting it to best.

[politby]

How can I get the Windows Media Center remote control (in my case a Harmony 885 with the WMC codes) to control PowerDVD?

I have done the registry hack to activate PowerDVD when MediaCenter detects a HD DVD but the remote does not work with PDVD. I know it's supposed to.

I have an IRtrans receiver but it works fine with Media Center so I'm assuming it would not break the PDVD compatibility... or does it?

[IanD]

Some people here have been complaining about nVidia video quality being bad on XP with PowerDVD Ultra. Others have claimed there is no difference.

I've had Blu-Ray playback for six months and haven't noticed anything wrong with the picture quality under XP.

I tried an HD DVD and I found that there is horrible aliasing (Transfomers HD-DVD) with the extras disc and some shimmering on the movie iteself at times. The "best" setting for video ( which is also only available for HD-DVD playback ) doesn't seem to fix it.

I think the people who've noticed poor nVidia image quality on XP are HD-DVD users.
There is no (or minimal) aliasing with PowerDVD in software decode mode as long as Best video quality is selected. Unfortunately this is difficult to achieve in the builds after 2911.

Even in hardware decode mode, aliasing can be minimised if all video settings (eg brightness, contrast, etc) are set to 0 in the PowerDVD advanced video tab. For some reason, any colourspace adjustment seems to activate or highlight aliasing.

For interlaced extras, even setting PowerDVD de-interlacing to None still seems to de-interlace in software decode mode. I'm not sure what happens in hardware acceleration mode if the different de-interlacing options are used.

I think PowerDVD does it's own thing in XP regardless of many of the user adjustable settings. For example, I think saturation control in PowerDVD is disabled under XP and can only be modified via the Nvidia Control Panel TV/Video adjustment section in software decode mode.

I can't speak for Bluray, but software decoding, if you can afford the CPU cycles, seems to give the best overall results under XP with PowerDVD in Best video quality mode (with de-interlacing set to None).

[AbMagFab]

This isn't video processing. There's a video quality tab while playing back HD-DVDs in PDVD. This can be set to auto, good, best and so on. Most people on this forum recommend setting it to best.

That *is* video processing. Normal/Original means it won't touch the image. Every other setting is messing with the original image on the disc.

That's, by definition, video processing.

[sharangad]

That *is* video processing. Normal/Original means it won't touch the image. Every other setting is messing with the original image on the disc.

That's, by definition, video processing.

There is no normal or original. This is the decoding quality. Auto/Good/best with best producing the best image quality and taking the most CPU cycles.

[AbMagFab]

There is no normal or original. This is the decoding quality. Auto/Good/best with best producing the best image quality and taking the most CPU cycles.


You're flat-out wrong. I'm looking at it right now - Auto, Best Quality, Good Quality, Normal Quality.

Anything other than Normal is, by defiinition, Video Processing. You'll also note this is under the "Video" tab, Advanced (not the HD DVD tab).

(You should really check things before posting incorrect info for all to see.)

[Vern Dias]

Nope, actually it's you who are wrong. ;) Best quality allows the full resolution of the source to pass through unmolested. Auto, basically allows the software to make the decision on which of the choices to run based on available CPU and GPU cycles.

Going from the "Best" to the "Good" setting clearly introduces more stairstepping and reduces the detail in the image. Comparing to a stand alone player, the "Best" setting is the only setting that delivers an identical image to that delivered by the stand alone player.

Of course, if you are not running a 1080 projector on a large screen, then you might not see the dramatic difference that the "Best" setting makes.

Vern

[Al Sherwood]

Has anybody got this title to work from the HDD with PDVD 3516?

If so what did you do?, I tried build and read methods with ImageBurn and neither will play, I get error code "80040216" from PDVD.

Hey BTW, Merry Christmas! :D

[Thinker]

Would someone mind summarizing the issues here with the stuttering / jitter? I have read through these posts, but with 160 pages, it's hard to follow.

I can dual boot my machine to XP or Vista. XP plays HD-DVD and Blueray fine with PDVD. So my hardware is fine. However, Vista can't play any titles from the hard drive without jitter. The CPU utilization is near 100%. What is this issue--what is the solution? Clearly this is a software / driver issue. I think I am running an nVidia 7900 series video card--but as I said, no issues on XP--so drivers might be the issue but not the card per se.

P.S.--where do I find the build # you all refer to. All I find is 7.3 but no build #.

[AbMagFab]

Nope, actually it's you who are wrong. ;) Best quality allows the full resolution of the source to pass through unmolested. Auto, basically allows the software to make the decision on which of the choices to run based on available CPU and GPU cycles.

Going from the "Best" to the "Good" setting clearly introduces more stairstepping and reduces the detail in the image. Comparing to a stand alone player, the "Best" setting is the only setting that delivers an identical image to that delivered by the stand alone player.

Of course, if you are not running a 1080 projector on a large screen, then you might not see the dramatic difference that the "Best" setting makes.

Vern


#1 - I'm right (not that it matters) about there being a "Normal"

#2 - I have a 110" screen with a Black Pearl. The changes with "Best" are absolutely noticable, in as much as the VP artifacts look horrible.

Just pop an HD DVD or BluRay into PDVD, and into a regular HDDVD/BD drive, and compare "Normal" with "Best". It's painfully obvious that PDVD is doing some major, and bad, video processing on everything but "Normal".

For what it's worth, I'm running NVidia and have the h/w acceleration on in PDVD. Not sure if that changes the behavior of this feature, but in this mode, Normal is the only setting that retains the video of the original disc, unmolested.

(And I barely see any CPU difference between Best and Normal, so not sure what that earlier comment was about.)

[Andy o]

Wow, this blu-ray fiasco is getting out of control. On Flight Plan, even when set to resume movie, instead of showing whenever I left it at, I still get:

1) The Studio logo (Touchstone).
2) The blu-ray movie ads.
3) The freaking stupid anti-piracy ad (you know, the "it's stealing" one).
4) A disclaimer about commentaries or something.
5) A copyright screen.
6) The FBI warning screen.

Just then the movie resumes.

So, even when you have already started seeing the movie, and want to resume, you need to press FF 4 times, and wait for the FBI warning to end, which is non-skippable. How annoying and stupid. Not one HD-DVD that I've tried has anything even remotely close to that, and that's counting the fact that HD-DVD doesn't let you resume. Restarting an HD-DVD seems much faster than resuming some blu-rays. (Other blu-rays are similar in that you still have to eat up a couple of warnings before resuming, but having to skip ads again? What the hell are they thinking. I wonder if AnyDVD will come up with PUO removal for blu-ray.

I wonder if this same behavior happens in standalone players? I'm not complaining about the format itself, but the amount of control the studios want to have is just infuriating.

[AbMagFab]

I'm not complaining about the format itself, but the amount of control the studios want to have is just infuriating.

I agree. What's disappointing is that BluRay seems to be a better format, visually (either everything I've seen just happens to be encoded better, or it's actually better in some way). But it sure is far worse in terms of "studio control" as you put it...

[kylebisme]

Blu-ray can hold more data per-layer than HD-DVD, but many Blu-ray releases use the exact same video data as their respective HD-DVD releases. The two are just data storage formats, there is nothing inherently superior about the image quality obtainable on either. You can put video of just as high a quality on a standard CD, just not nearly as much of it.

[Thinker]

Al,
I think one of the variables that is affecting hw accel. is the version of pdvd. I, like the other user seemed to be having hw accel. working with pdvd 2911 and my current version of pdvd 3104. Although with 3104 I can not seem to disable it! With 2911 I could enable and disable and the cpu reflected that it was indeed working. I have not tried any of the more recent versions of pdvd because I did not want to lose the ability to play from the hdd of be forced to mount as iso files. I am using the 2600xt on vista and have tried the 7.7, 7.10 and now the 7.11 with similar results.
jp

Why can we no longer uncheck hw acc? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

Why do we lose ability to payback from hd without iso'ing it? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

[AbMagFab]

Blu-ray can hold more data per-layer than HD-DVD, but many Blu-ray releases use the exact same video data as their respective HD-DVD releases. The two are just data storage formats, there is nothing inherently superior about the image quality obtainable on either. You can put video of just as high a quality on a standard CD, just not nearly as much of it.

Yeah, I get the theory.

However in practice, the BluRay discs look better than the HDDVD discs (to me). I'm not comparing apples-to-apples, in that I don't have the same movie in both formats. I'm comparing things I've purchased on BD to other things on HDDVD.

While theoretically and technically they are just storage mechanisms, perhaps the folks who are doing BD exclusively are compressing with different specs?

In any case, it's a clear difference with my limited sample size (about 10 discs each). The only one on BD that doesn't look that great is 300 (compared to the other BD discs I own).

[AbMagFab]

Why can we no longer uncheck hw acc? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

Why do we lose ability to payback from hd without iso'ing it? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

For #2, yes.

Not sure about #1, and not sure I care much. It works a lot better with HW acc.

[jeffreydeng]

Has anybody got this title to work from the HDD with PDVD 3516?

If so what did you do?, I tried build and read methods with ImageBurn and neither will play, I get error code "80040216" from PDVD.

Hey BTW, Merry Christmas! :D

I can play 'Die Hard 4' using 3319a.

[kylebisme]

Yeah, I get the theory.

No, not theory, I'm talking about facts. Again, many Blu-ray releases use the exact same video data as their respective HD-DVD releases; that is a fact.

[talon95]

Even in hardware decode mode, aliasing can be minimised if all video settings (eg brightness, contrast, etc) are set to 0 in the PowerDVD advanced video tab. For some reason, any colourspace adjustment seems to activate or highlight aliasing.


That's it! I've had that crappy aliasing in XP and not in Vista for a long time and was blaming the NVidia drivers, but the real difference was the fact that I had bumped the brightness up in the PowerDVD settings and it was causing the aliasing. It's not just more obvious, it's just not there with everything centered.

Now that just creates another problem though. Brightness is way too low with the slider centered and I'm not sure it can be fixed on the projector end since PDVD may be crushing blacks on it's end.

Thanks though. At least that clears up that problem. I'm still refusing to run Vista full time, so this is a step in the right direction. :)

Edit: In doing more testing, it appears the brightness adjustment within PDVD running in Vista is broken (slider has no effect) which explains why the aliasing does not show up in Vista.

[sharangad]

Maybe you should read what I posted before trying to trash me:

You're flat-out wrong. I'm looking at it right now - Auto, Best Quality, Good Quality, Normal Quality.

... .You'll also note this is under the "Video" tab, Advanced (not the HD DVD tab).

(You should really check things before posting incorrect info for all to see.)


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12582825#post12582825



... .There's a video quality tab while playing back HD-DVDs in PDVD. ...

[Al Sherwood]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp2
Al,
I think one of the variables that is affecting hw accel. is the version of pdvd. I, like the other user seemed to be having hw accel. working with pdvd 2911 and my current version of pdvd 3104. Although with 3104 I can not seem to disable it! With 2911 I could enable and disable and the cpu reflected that it was indeed working. I have not tried any of the more recent versions of pdvd because I did not want to lose the ability to play from the hdd of be forced to mount as iso files. I am using the 2600xt on vista and have tried the 7.7, 7.10 and now the 7.11 with similar results.
jp [/QUOTE]

Why can we no longer uncheck hw acc? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

Why do we lose ability to payback from hd without iso'ing it? Concious decision by Cyberlink?

This was in reference to ATI cards, we can still uncheck the box for Avivo hardware acceleration... but as for your questions, I would have to say that the decisions to affect HD playback was a concious decision by Cyberlink.

[Al Sherwood]

Originally Posted by Al Sherwood
Has anybody got this title to work from the HDD with PDVD 3516?

If so what did you do?, I tried build and read methods with ImageBurn and neither will play, I get error code "80040216" from PDVD.

Hey BTW, Merry Christmas!

jeffreydeng: I can play 'Die Hard 4' using 3319a.

I was afraid somebody would say that! Well a least it plays back from the optical media!

I had some problems at 3319 that forced me to upgrade to 3516... dang! :mad:

[Vern Dias]

First off, to head off a flame war, I have been an Nvidia fan for years. However the broken VMR9 that required renderless full screen mode to avoid tearing and other issues with HDCP and driver quality have driven me away from NVidia for any of my multimedia systems.

I have to say that the new ATI HD 3870 video card has met or exceeded all my expectations.

Since we are seeing such different results, maybe its the video card / drivers, although "Best" contributed absolutely no artifacts or other problems with my 8800GTX either.

Don't know what else to say, except that each reader should try the different options and decide for themselves what works best in their environment.

Vern

[stryfetew]

Anyway having a problem with playback of blu ray all together? My screen has purple and green lines in it. It plays fine but the picture is crap.. Sounds is great too. I have a 7900gto nvidia card and when I do a copy to my hard drive with AnyDVD it looks good but I can't understand the french very well.

[Andy o]

This is gonna be long, but bear with me... it took me so much longer to realize.


Even in hardware decode mode, aliasing can be minimised if all video settings (eg brightness, contrast, etc) are set to 0 in the PowerDVD advanced video tab. For some reason, any colourspace adjustment seems to activate or highlight aliasing.
That's it! I've had that crappy aliasing in XP and not in Vista for a long time and was blaming the NVidia drivers, but the real difference was the fact that I had bumped the brightness up in the PowerDVD settings and it was causing the aliasing. It's not just more obvious, it's just not there with everything centered.

Now that just creates another problem though. Brightness is way too low with the slider centered and I'm not sure it can be fixed on the projector end since PDVD may be crushing blacks on it's end.
Try setting the brightness like you want in PowerDVD, and when you get aliasing go to nVidia Control Panel and raise the Noise reduction or Edge Enhancement just one notch. It is unnoticeable, and probably will get rid of aliasing. It used to be that way always before, but then it only seems to work when you mess with PowerDVD sliders. This I tried in Vista, though.

Thanks though. At least that clears up that problem. I'm still refusing to run Vista full time, so this is a step in the right direction. :)

Edit: In doing more testing, it appears the brightness adjustment within PDVD running in Vista is broken (slider has no effect) which explains why the aliasing does not show up in Vista.

I have a 8600GTS in Vista 32. I have found some curious stuff about the behavior of nVidia (and ATI a bit) drivers regarding this situation. By the way, just some days ago the final 169.25 drivers were released (they seem to behave a little different than the 169.25 betas).

Up to the 163 drivers, the levels expansion, as I said before in this thread, was not done for anything, and I'm not sure if the sliders worked for HD-DVD and blu-ray ("HD disc"), but I just calibrated everything across the board (including DVD) in the nVidia Control Panel, and forgot about it. But with this driver, I was having a one pixel-tall green line at the bottom of the picture in full screen. It got a little annoying.


Assume the following is with HW accel. ON in PowerDVD:

So I tried the 169 betas (169.04, 169.11 and 169.25 beta) and they all get rid of the green line, but also they all do autoexpansion for only HD disc, but not for DVD or OTA HD (1080i, 720p). The 169.25 final drivers do the same, and for non-HD-disc (when autoexpansion is not done), it seems you can use the sliders in PowerDVD, if the "Use the NVIDIA Control Panel color settings" option in the "Adjust video color settings" section of the Control Panel is not ticked.

Now, when you do check that option, you cannot control anything with the PowerDVD sliders, but you can control everything in the Control Panel, including HD disc. But since HD disc is being auto expanded, whatever you change here will change everything, and still HD disc stuff and non-HD-disc stuff will be offset by the auto expansion. So, either you will get correct HD disc and low-contrast (native) non-HD-disc stuff, or overexpanded HD disc and correct (expanded/calibrated) non-HD-disc stuff. Hope it's not too confusing (yet).

So the easiest way to have it, and it's an OK solution if you're not too picky, is to leave that option ("Use the NVIDIA Control Panel color settings") unchecked, let the driver do its autoexpansion for HD disc, and calibrate manually in PowerDVD for everything else, since those sliders won't have an effect on HD disc. That means, though, that there is no calibration possible for HD disc (because you left the option unchecked)!

Unfortunately I have found the auto expansion a bit on the bright side, so it seems I'm getting just a bit of clipping in the whites (according to the HD calibration part of Ratatouille, but not the DVE-HD disc -- I think the Ratatouille disc is more correct). I could just calibrate a little bit so the whites don't clip in the driver, but that would mean to check the "Use the NVIDIA Control Panel color settings" option. And as I said before, whenever you check that, the PowerDVD sliders don't work. That is, unless you turn OFF HW accel. in PowerDVD.

So now, if you turn OFF HW accel. in PowerDVD, you can keep the "Use the NVIDIA Control Panel color settings" option checked in the driver, to fine-tune HD disc, and the PowerDVD sliders will work for non-HD-disc stuff. The problem is (and isn't there always one) that now the sliders don't behave the same as with HWA on. For instance, "contrast" with HWA on behaves just like most "contrast" sliders in consumer devices, namely highlight control, and "brightness", black levels. But with HWA off, "contrast" behaves as actual contrast, so it will lower the black levels at the same time raising the highlights. It will do expansion on its own. Brightness will behave similarly, affecting both black levels and highlights.

So now, if I wanna be able to fine-tune HD disc and calibrate non-HD-disc material as well, I have to keep HWA OFF, use only the contrast slider to expand/calibrate, and "Use the NVIDIA Control Panel color settings" ticked.

Hope this info helps. If you think I got anything wrong, let me know.


PS: On a side note, ATI in their later drivers also seemed to be having autoexpansion only for HD material, but not for SD. I wonder if this is somehow connected. Could it be that the studios don't even want us to have control of HD calibration? (Kidding, of course, but the fact that they disabled the HW accel. option makes you wonder.)

[Tulli]

Up to the 163 drivers, the levels expansion, as I said before in this thread, was not done for anything, ...

Thanks a lot for that info. Went back to 158.18 (Vista x64/8600gts) and no more levels expansion.

[Andy o]

Thanks a lot for that info. Went back to 158.18 (Vista x64/8600gts) and no more levels expansion.

Hmm, why did you go that far back? Did you get the green line by any chance, with 163? I got it with as far back as 162, if I remember correctly. I don't have Vista 64, but I think previous drivers from 162 had also some problems. I can't remember what right now, though.

I got this thing satisfactorily resolved, for what it's worth. I got "use nVidia Control panel..." checked, and I calibrate PowerDVD with HWA off for non-HD-disc stuff. Works OK, it seems. God, can't wait for this Christmas or whatever thing to get over, I just want my discs 5 and 6 of Prison Break blu-ray in the mail! Had to watch Flight Plan earlier today. Meh.

[nesNYC]

The newer builds of PowerDVD are incompatible with the latest version of some nVidia drivers. The work around I did to get PowerDVD to work with the latest nVida drivers was to make my HDTV screen 1 and my desktop screen 2. Somehow, PowerDVD only seems to want to play on the first screen and igonrs nVidia's extended overlay (extended desktop) and switching them around worked for me.

I have an nVidia 7600GT and the latest drivers for Vista Ultimate.

But what I have been observing from Cyberlink is that they eventually debug the software to catch up to the nVidia builds and then the kinks get ironed out. However by that time, new nVidia drivers come out and if you upgrade, chances are PowerDVD won't work in them.

What I have done is stop upgrading PowerDVD at build 3310a (i'll have to double check that) so I don't loose the ability to play from my hard drive. Also, that was the last build that worked properly with my video drivers.

Anyway having a problem with playback of blu ray all together? My screen has purple and green lines in it. It plays fine but the picture is crap.. Sounds is great too. I have a 7900gto nvidia card and when I do a copy to my hard drive with AnyDVD it looks good but I can't understand the french very well.

[Tulli]

Hmm, why did you go that far back? Did you get the green line by any chance, with 163? I got it with as far back as 162, if I remember correctly. I don't have Vista 64, but I think previous drivers from 162 had also some problems. I can't remember what right now, though.



Vista x64 163.75 whql worked fine. Thanks again, Andy o. And no green line for me.

[The_Manual]

I am having problems with PowerDVD (7.3 Ultra build 3516) and HD DVD's, and was hoping anyone could offer some assistance. I thought this thread would be the best place to ask this question. I have looked through the thread and found people with these problems, but no definite answer.

There is no problem with actually playing HD DVD's, they work perfectly. However the issue I am having is that the film only fills approximately half the screen (vertically).

The system I am using is 1080i/p compatible:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
nVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX (169.21 Drivers)
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Samsung SyncMaster 245B (DVI with HDCP @1920x1200)
Windows XP Professional (SP3 RC1)


The width of the film is correct, however the height is not correct. At 1080i/p I am assuming the film's height should match 1080 pixels Vertical, judging by it's position I am assuming it is only doing 720i/p, perhaps PowerDVD is shrinking it to approximately half vertical screen size?

The system resolution is 1920x1200, which should easily accommodate the 1080 specification. Even switching the Display Mode to 1080p HDTV resolution in the NVIDIA Control Panel (Drivers support PureVideo HD and equivalent) does not resize the film to maximum size. The film used for testing is Transformers HD DVD.

I am not sure if the system is outputting 1080i/p or not, or if it is simply doing 720i/p. I do not know how to obtain an answer for that question. PowerDVD does resize some normal DVD's to half screen also (when they are configured for 16:9). WMP HD played in Windows Media Player are the correct size.
Any assistance would be grateful.

Thanks,
Greg.

[charlesj123]

Sorry guys to answer you this question, it might look obvious for you but I'm looking to find inside PDVD how to change the rendering mode to make sure I have VRM9 intead of overlay.

Anyone knows were I can find this setting?

Thanks

Charles

[neomagic]

With PowerDVD 3319a I got this kind of image when watching VC1 HD-DVDs. Blu-ray discs play fine. Graphics adapter is ATI HD 2400 with different driver versions. Anyone experienced this before?

http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/36127/2004215520081866320_rs.jpg

Thanks!

[pg_ice]

so whats this all about?
when i play a Blu Ray disc in powerDVD i dont get full resolution and the picture is screwed up at the bottom of the picture.

protection **** right :)
HDCP ?

how do i solve this?
thanks

[laguna_b]

so whats this all about?
when i play a Blu Ray disc in powerDVD i dont get full resolution and the picture is screwed up at the bottom of the picture.

protection **** right :)
HDCP ?

how do i solve this?
thanks

Not HDCP. HDCP would not let clear text pass and you would either have snow or nothing at all. Which movie and which version of PDVD?

[pg_ice]

Not HDCP. HDCP would not let clear text pass and you would either have snow or nothing at all. Which movie and which version of PDVD?

it dosent matter what BD movies
all BD movies that i play from my harddrive (i have made some backups) only shows at low res with screwed up picture at the bottom when im running in fullscreen mode.

HD-DVDs are no problem

power dvd: 7.3 Ultra
graphics card: 8800 Ultra
Win XP Pro

[laguna_b]

it dosent matter what BD movies
all BD movies that i play from my harddrive (i have made some backups) only shows at low res with screwed up picture at the bottom when im running in fullscreen mode.

HD-DVDs are no problem

power dvd: 7.3 Ultra
graphics card: 8800 Ultra
Win XP Pro

I will have to defer to BD experts since I only have HD-DVD but you are aware that if you upgrade beyond version 3319(no letter) you loose the ability to play from the hard drive unless you mount the movies as isos....I now there were changes made in one rev allegedly to fix BD playback but someone with BD is a better source. I just know it is NOT HDCP.

[hamish b]

With PowerDVD 3319a I got this kind of image when watching VC1 HD-DVDs. Blu-ray discs play fine. Graphics adapter is ATI HD 2400 with different driver versions. Anyone experienced this before?

http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/36127/2004215520081866320_rs.jpg

Thanks!

i had similair problems when i first go my 2600xt
what i did was update the bios of the graphics card from the manufacturers site. Fixed it no troubles

[pg_ice]

you are aware that if you upgrade beyond version 3319(no letter) you loose the ability to play from the hard

sure
i have made a ISO file of the BD movie.
no difference

[laguna_b]

sure
i have made a ISO file of the BD movie.
no difference

You said you had 7.3 but did not list the actual 4 digit version number. You might check for updates but keep your old install files for the reason previously stated.

[nesNYC]

If you're watching a movie that is not truly 16:9 then you'll have bars on the top and the bottom. Most films are 2.4:1 or theatricall widescreen and won't fill up to the top and bottom. If you're seeing that the width is correct then everything is good. Some films crop the sides and give you the full 16:9 screen but those are very few.

I am having problems with PowerDVD (7.3 Ultra build 3516) and HD DVD's, and was hoping anyone could offer some assistance. I thought this thread would be the best place to ask this question. I have looked through the thread and found people with these problems, but no definite answer.

There is no problem with actually playing HD DVD's, they work perfectly. However the issue I am having is that the film only fills approximately half the screen (vertically).

The system I am using is 1080i/p compatible:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
nVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX (169.21 Drivers)
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Samsung SyncMaster 245B (DVI with HDCP @1920x1200)
Windows XP Professional (SP3 RC1)


The width of the film is correct, however the height is not correct. At 1080i/p I am assuming the film's height should match 1080 pixels Vertical, judging by it's position I am assuming it is only doing 720i/p, perhaps PowerDVD is shrinking it to approximately half vertical screen size?

The system resolution is 1920x1200, which should easily accommodate the 1080 specification. Even switching the Display Mode to 1080p HDTV resolution in the NVIDIA Control Panel (Drivers support PureVideo HD and equivalent) does not resize the film to maximum size. The film used for testing is Transformers HD DVD.

I am not sure if the system is outputting 1080i/p or not, or if it is simply doing 720i/p. I do not know how to obtain an answer for that question. PowerDVD does resize some normal DVD's to half screen also (when they are configured for 16:9). WMP HD played in Windows Media Player are the correct size.
Any assistance would be grateful.

Thanks,
Greg.

[pg_ice]

You said you had 7.3 but did not list the actual 4 digit version number. You might check for updates but keep your old install files for the reason previously stated.


Problem solved
phew :)

i did a cleanup of the graphics drivers and installed the newest
so it was a driver issue.

thanks anyway folks

[laguna_b]

Problem solved
phew :)

i did a cleanup of the graphics drivers and installed the newest
so it was a driver issue.

thanks anyway folks

CHEEEEEEERSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! :)

[MKANET]

Evan Almighty... does the same thing Transformers and Knocked Up do. Basically all new HD-DVD titles are not having this weird judder. None of the older HD-DVD titles do this, neither do any of the Blu-ray DVD's.

EDIT: I had to disable the extra 2 CPU cores again and it got rid of 95% of the problem.

[kylebisme]

I just updated to Nvidia's 169.25 drivers and now The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy running smooth. And with that one nagging issue fixed I bought a key for the full version from Newegg for $72, glad to finally have TrueHD surround sound as well as DD+ out my anologs in PDVD.

[Patrick.]

I am having problems with PowerDVD (7.3 Ultra build 3516) and HD DVD's, and was hoping anyone could offer some assistance. I thought this thread would be the best place to ask this question. I have looked through the thread and found people with these problems, but no definite answer.

There is no problem with actually playing HD DVD's, they work perfectly. However the issue I am having is that the film only fills approximately half the screen (vertically).

The system I am using is 1080i/p compatible:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
nVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX (169.21 Drivers)
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Samsung SyncMaster 245B (DVI with HDCP @1920x1200)
Windows XP Professional (SP3 RC1)


The width of the film is correct, however the height is not correct. At 1080i/p I am assuming the film's height should match 1080 pixels Vertical, judging by it's position I am assuming it is only doing 720i/p, perhaps PowerDVD is shrinking it to approximately half vertical screen size?

The system resolution is 1920x1200, which should easily accommodate the 1080 specification. Even switching the Display Mode to 1080p HDTV resolution in the NVIDIA Control Panel (Drivers support PureVideo HD and equivalent) does not resize the film to maximum size. The film used for testing is Transformers HD DVD.

I am not sure if the system is outputting 1080i/p or not, or if it is simply doing 720i/p. I do not know how to obtain an answer for that question. PowerDVD does resize some normal DVD's to half screen also (when they are configured for 16:9). WMP HD played in Windows Media Player are the correct size.
Any assistance would be grateful.

Thanks,
Greg.

Computer screens are 16:10 aspect ratio, not 16:9. This behavior is normal, if you want to use all your screen you will need to buy an LCD TV for your computer instead of a monitor

[kylebisme]

Movies that only fill about half the screen on his 16:10 monitor won't come anywhere close to filling a 16:9 TV either.

[jimwhite]

if you want to use all your screen you will need to buy an LCD TV for your computer instead of a monitor
Most of the <23" LCD TV's are actually 16:10 also !! :eek:

:cool:

[laguna_b]

I was afraid somebody would say that! Well a least it plays back from the optical media!

I had some problems at 3319 that forced me to upgrade to 3516... dang! :mad:

Al,

Make sure it was not your ripper that was the problem. I use both DVDfab and AnyDVD and sometimes one works where the other doesn't. One poster had been successful with dual launch icons for pre/post 3319. If I run into problems I might try that myself.

Barry

[Davinleeds]

My Acer AL2223W 16x10 fills fine with PDVD. Knock on wood, I've never had PDVD fill just half the screen. Watched Bourne last night and had bars top and bottom-but that's the movie aspect.

[kylebisme]

Watched Bourne last night and had bars top and bottom-but that's the movie aspect.
That is what the complaints are about. Many people don't understand that movies often have aspect ratios wider than their displays.

[muterobert]

First off, to head off a flame war, I have been an Nvidia fan for years. However the broken VMR9 that required renderless full screen mode to avoid tearing and other issues with HDCP and driver quality have driven me away from NVidia for any of my multimedia systems.

I have to say that the new ATI HD 3870 video card has met or exceeded all my expectations.

Since we are seeing such different results, maybe its the video card / drivers, although "Best" contributed absolutely no artifacts or other problems with my 8800GTX either.

Don't know what else to say, except that each reader should try the different options and decide for themselves what works best in their environment.

Vern
I was literally just about to post similar thoughts. I've been struggling (a polite term) with nVidia's broken drivers for generations now, I couldn't quite believe that switching 'sides' would have been so revalatory in terms of the HD movie watching experience.

Movies are wonderfully smooth, with minimal posterisation/banding and absolutely zero judder or jitter. ATI/AMD have done absolute wonders with video out on this series of cards. The drivers have actually been carefully thought about for those of us on dial displays too. Everything just works as it's supposed too, no brow furrowing, no hair pulling or screaming like a banshee it just works! There are also loads of little touches for Dual-Viewers too like opening the drivers page on the diaply you are clicking on *GASP*! :)

What's more, it's a stunner in 3D gaming too, with a healthy overclock meaning I could run the wonderous Crysis in ery High from beginning to end. And all this for just £150!!

If anyone here is utterly sick of wasting their precious time on nVidia's completely broken Vista drivers - I cannot recommend this card highly enough. Go get one (or a cheaper 3850) now!

[Al Sherwood]

Al,

Make sure it was not your ripper that was the problem. I use both DVDfab and AnyDVD and sometimes one works where the other doesn't. One poster had been successful with dual launch icons for pre/post 3319. If I run into problems I might try that myself.

Barry

Good point Barry, I have never tried DVDfab so that may be worth a go. Being able to play titles off of the HD is slick, it still amazes me how may 'different' problems have been reported, and just as many who report they have no problems!

I would like to have two versions of PowerDVD available, but then again it sure would be nice if it just worked with the most up-to-date version of PowerDVD!

[TokyoShoe]

Bourne Ultimatum is jumping and stuttering like crazy under PowerDVD Ultra Build 3516. Anyone having this same issue? I can get the DVD side to play just fine, but the HD-DVD side is super jittery.

Double checked the disc surface, and it is spotless and pristine on both sides.
I am not running AnyDVD HD as I had to uninstall it, it was fouling up too the playback of too many of my HD-DVD's.

[MKANET]

I think youre talking about the same bug I am. What kind of CPU do you have?

Bourne Ultimatum is jumping and stuttering like crazy under PowerDVD Ultra Build 3516. Anyone having this same issue? I can get the DVD side to play just fine, but the HD-DVD side is super jittery.

Double checked the disc surface, and it is spotless and pristine on both sides.
I am not running AnyDVD HD as I had to uninstall it, it was fouling up too the playback of too many of my HD-DVD's.

[kylebisme]

Bourne Ultimatum is jumping and stuttering like crazy under PowerDVD Ultra Build 3516. Anyone having this same issue?
I don't have the disk, but what codec does it use, and at what bitrates are you seeing frame drops? Also, what videocard are you using? I had awful frame drops on one MPEG4 disk with bitrates over 28Mbps, but updating to the latest drivers for my 8800gt solved that.

[wbart4]

I,m very new to PowerDVD. Are PowerDVD 7.3 and Ultra the same?

[MKANET]

Not a performance related issue... not frame drops... at least not for me.

I don't have the disk, but what codec does it use, and at what bitrates are you seeing frame drops? Also, what videocard are you using? I had awful frame drops on one MPEG4 disk with bitrates over 28Mbps, but updating to the latest drivers for my 8800gt solved that.

[kylebisme]

Then can you describe the issue you are seeing? He mentioned jumping, which I take to mean frame dropping.

[MKANET]

Hmmm... its hard to describe... maybe it is skipping frames, but definitely not related to not having enough performance. It's kind of random... the video will jump back a few frames, then jump ahead to realtime. If I disabled two of the 4 cores on my CPU, the problem seems to be about 90% gone; and the movie is watchable once again. I dont have this issue with any time of blu-ray, or old HD-DVDs. It looks like the problem (at least my problem) is related to PowerDVD 's HD-DVD playback and how process threads are handled by CPU's with more than 2 cores.

EDIT: I just re-read his original comment. My HD-DVDs dont stutter like crazy... it just happens once every couple of minutes or so.

Then can you describe the issue you are seeing? He mentioned jumping, which I take to mean frame dropping.

[Andy o]

I was literally just about to post similar thoughts. I've been struggling (a polite term) with nVidia's broken drivers for generations now, I couldn't quite believe that switching 'sides' would have been so revalatory in terms of the HD movie watching experience.

Movies are wonderfully smooth, with minimal posterisation/banding and absolutely zero judder or jitter. ATI/AMD have done absolute wonders with video out on this series of cards. The drivers have actually been carefully thought about for those of us on dial displays too. Everything just works as it's supposed too, no brow furrowing, no hair pulling or screaming like a banshee it just works! There are also loads of little touches for Dual-Viewers too like opening the drivers page on the diaply you are clicking on *GASP*! :)

What's more, it's a stunner in 3D gaming too, with a healthy overclock meaning I could run the wonderous Crysis in ery High from beginning to end. And all this for just £150!!

If anyone here is utterly sick of wasting their precious time on nVidia's completely broken Vista drivers - I cannot recommend this card highly enough. Go get one (or a cheaper 3850) now!

I personally have had MUCH better luck with nVidia, both with a 8500GT and my current 8600GTS. Sure, a few problems, but my ATI experience with 2400pro and 2600pro was horribe. Couldn't even get HDCP to work with my monitor for the first two or three driver generations that supported HDCP. Only then they fixed it, and it was the driver's fault, but the nVidia was already on its way. And that's counting the fact that I had to do myriad registry tweaks, and people still have to, I reckon. Check out the ATI 2x00 series thread.

So what you're saying is that the 3800 series is at least two steps better than the 2000 series? And the drivers is what is good about it? Hmm, that's a bold statement, since I've never ever had any good ATI software. Not being facetious here, but I've always liked ATI hardware, only that I was waiting for the day they would pick up their game on the software. I'll surely give these new cards a try if I get the chance.

[Andy o]

I,m very new to PowerDVD. Are PowerDVD 7.3 and Ultra the same?

There is PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra, and PowerDVD 7 (I don't know which version they're at right now). Basically, Ultra is the same as PowerDVD, but with high-definition disc capabilities (HD-DVD, blu-ray).

[TokyoShoe]

Hmmm... its hard to describe... maybe it is skipping frames, but definitely not related to not having enough performance. It's kind of random... the video will jump back a few frames, then jump ahead to realtime. If I disabled two of the 4 cores on my CPU, the problem seems to be about 90% gone; and the movie is watchable once again. I dont have this issue with any time of blu-ray, or old HD-DVDs. It looks like the problem (at least my problem) is related to PowerDVD 's HD-DVD playback and how process threads are handled by CPU's with more than 2 cores.

EDIT: I just re-read his original comment. My HD-DVDs dont stutter like crazy... it just happens once every couple of minutes or so.

It is VC-1 Encoded. I didn't have bit rates display turned on I'll have to go back and test that. I was playing this on a 3.4 Ghz Pentium (Straight single core, I know a bit on the low side) that never peaked out above 75% usage during playback. Video card is an Nvidia 8500GT , great card but I had a hellish time finding a good set of drivers that liked my TV.

It's not specifically a frame drop per say, but the audio sounds fine and the video.. while jittery, does actually keep in pace with its' audio marks. So now that I think about it, I guess it's conceivable it is dropping frames.

I don't think it is any coincidence that the only HD-DVD's I have had playback issues with were VC-1 Encoded Universal Releases. (Sneakers, for instance. EXACT same playback issue, until a patch to PowerDVD corrected the issue. Now it plays back just fine.)

[uolsona]

I'm having the exact same problem with Bourne Ultimatum. I just installed the LG drive this weekend. I have tried two other Blu-Rays and they ran fine. Bourne Ultimatum is the only HD-DVD that I have tied.

I posted the below in the LG drive thread and then reposted in the 2600XT thread trying to get some ideas on how to fix. Didn't get much feedback. :cool:

I posted the below in the LG dual format drive thread but nobody else seems to be having this problem. In addition to the below I updated the driver and CCC to the 7.12 revision. But I'm still getting stuttering wiht Bourne Ultimatum. I bought Casino Royale today and it seems to run just fine.

I have a feeling it is the way I have CCC set up, but I have no idea what it would be specifically. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Originally Posted by uolsona
Hey guys,

I need some advice from some knowledgeable folks. I have been following this [LG drive] thread fairly consistently since it was started but the idea of going back through it to see if anyone else has had a similar problem isn't to appealing. Would appreciate some help.

I just got this drive yesterday and installed if today. Everything went smoothly. I installed the bundled version of PDVD and then upgraded to version 7.3 when it asked me to.

I'm trying to play my first HD-DVD (Bourne Ultimatum). It started playing fine but I'm getting some very light, to at times severe, stuttering. I think my PC has plenty of power to handle this drive smoothly (specs pasted below). I have tried to make sure that as much of the acceleration is offloaded from the CPU as possible. CPU utilization is running 15-45% but the GPU is only running at 7-9%.

I don't know if I should be looking in CCC for the solution or in the PDVD configuration menu . . . . or somewhere else?

Here are the pasted specs from my VM HTPC. Haven't had any other problems like this.


Motherboard 2919 Genuine Intel® P35 ATX Motherboard with DDR2, PCI Express, 1333MHz FSB, RAID DP35DP

Processor 3007 Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6750, dual 2.66GHz cores, 1333MHz FSB, 4MB L2 Cache

CPU Cooling 2044 Arctic Cooling® Freezer 7 Pro Heatsink, Ultra Quiet Fan, Copper Heat Pipes, plus Arctic Silver™ 5 Thermal Compound

DDR2 Memory 2960 2048MB Corsair™ DDR2 PC6400 DDR2-800 (2x1024)

PCX Video 2866 256MB AMD ATI® Radeon™ HD 2600XT, 2 x DVI HDMI+Audio HDCP GDDR4

TV Tuner 2779 ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner - Internal* (HDCP Video Card Required)

Second TV Tuner 2779 ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner - Internal* (HDCP Video Card Required)

This disc stutters like crazy for me also. So far it's the only disc that I've tried that does, so I think it's a problem with this specific drive/disc combination. On another PC with the Xbox 360 drive Bourne plays fine. If I get ambitious I'm going to move the LG to the other PC and test there, but right now I'm sick of messing with this.

[kylebisme]

It's not specifically a frame drop per say, but the audio sounds fine and the video.. while jittery, does actually keep in pace with its' audio marks. So now that I think about it, I guess it's conceivable it is dropping frames.

Yeah, that is frame dropping, the movie is 24 frames per second but frames are skipped when the decodeing can't keep up. I'm curious to hear what the bitrates are when you are seeing the problem as well as what revision of video drivers you are using.

[MKANET]

I guess mine is a different issue..

Yeah, that is frame dropping, the movie is 24 frames per second but frames are skipped when the decodeing can't keep up. I'm curious to hear what the bitrates are when you are seeing the problem as well as what revision of video drivers you are using.

[Irish_Comer]

I had a similar problem with The Bourne Ultimatum and micro-stutter. My problem was being caused by reclock. Reclock thought the disk was encoded at 29.70 fps and so could not play it smoothly at either 60Hz or 48Hz refresh rate. The solution for me was to go into Configure Reclock and under the Video Settings Tab, remove he ticks from the three methods to determine frame rate. Perhaps sme others are using reclock and might find this useful.

[Socio]

Bourne Ultimatum is jumping and stuttering like crazy under PowerDVD Ultra Build 3516. Anyone having this same issue? I can get the DVD side to play just fine, but the HD-DVD side is super jittery.

Double checked the disc surface, and it is spotless and pristine on both sides.
I am not running AnyDVD HD as I had to uninstall it, it was fouling up too the playback of too many of my HD-DVD's.


Try turning off U-Control, you might need to start the disc, when it gets to the play screen, right click and jump to any chapter then jump back to the main menu then turn it off to get U-Control to shut off properly, even then don't hit play just jump to chapter one. I have had to do this with most HD DVDs that have U-Control due to it causing the stuttering problems.

[rdewey]

I put in a brand-new copy of Bourne Ultimatum HD DVD into my LG combo drive connected to a Vista home premium computer and got the notoritous message about needing to update Power DVD ultra to play the title; of course, regardless of what I clicked (yes or no) the disk wouldn't play.

Then I moved my LG drive to another system running Windows XP media center and in that computer, PowerDVD kept giving me a "disk drive door is open" message indicating that it couldn't read the disk.

On a lark, because of a suggestion by Netflix when you get a HD DVD you can't read, I took my brand new disk (which was visually spotless) to the sink and washed it with soap and warm water, dried it, and put it back into the LG drive connected to my XP computer and to my AMAZEMENT, the disk played flawlessly. Not to be outdone, I took my drive back to my Vista computer, and again, it played fine.

Moral of this story: for ANY problem with HD DVD playback on a HTPC, try washing the disk first, then let us know if you still have a problem. I have learned that invisible films on a disk (even a brand-new store-bought disk) can prevent successful playback of a HD DVD title...

[jtscribe]

Does Ultra still down-rez VGA to 540P? I'm not seeing a huge quality difference (may be the movies I'm using - SpiderMan 3, 300, Transformers) between HD disks and upscaled SD DVD's. I'm not seeing anywhere in the Power DVD control panel to tell me what resolution video is being output in.

[laguna_b]

I put in a brand-new copy of Bourne Ultimatum HD DVD into my LG combo drive connected to a Vista home premium computer and got the notoritous message about needing to update Power DVD ultra to play the title; of course, regardless of what I clicked (yes or no) the disk wouldn't play.


I assume you are trying to preserve 3319 for HDD playback....someone earlier was able to install two instances of PDVD by changing the folder name and having two start icons. I haven't tried it though but sounds like having your cake and eating it to me :)

Great tip on th washing! Will keep that in mind.

[Andy o]

Does Ultra still down-rez VGA to 540P? I'm not seeing a huge quality difference (may be the movies I'm using - SpiderMan 3, 300, Transformers) between HD disks and upscaled SD DVD's. I'm not seeing anywhere in the Power DVD control panel to tell me what resolution video is being output in.

I don't think it's ever meant to not downscale the image through analog output, due to AACS restrictions. You could probably get around it using AnyDVD HD.

Believe me, if you have a 1080p-capable monitor, you WILL see the difference, especially in movies like those you just mentioned. Or are you using a smallish CRT monitor (or a less than capable LCD)?

By the way, if you wanna compare the potential of 1080p video, just get Ratatouille or Corpse Bride, and compare those. These are the sharpest I've seen so far, due to their being "filmed" in the digital domain, with sources much higher in resolution than 1080p. So essentially, 1080p is a downscale for these movies. Most other computer-generated movies should be the same, but I haven't seen others.

[laguna_b]

I don't think it's ever meant to not downscale the image through analog output, due to AACS restrictions. You could probably get around it using AnyDVD HD.

Believe me, if you have a 1080p-capable monitor, you WILL see the difference, especially in movies like those you just mentioned. Or are you using a smallish CRT monitor (or a less than capable LCD)?


I always had problems getting component OP on a PC to deliver quality anyway. If you can go digital from the PC you will be better off. ANYDVD or DVD FAB should remove any HDCP requirement.

[Mark_A_W]

I had a similar problem with The Bourne Ultimatum and micro-stutter. My problem was being caused by reclock. Reclock thought the disk was encoded at 29.70 fps and so could not play it smoothly at either 60Hz or 48Hz refresh rate. The solution for me was to go into Configure Reclock and under the Video Settings Tab, remove he ticks from the three methods to determine frame rate. Perhaps sme others are using reclock and might find this useful.

Is Bourne Ultimatum MPEG4-AVC?

[PWNKAKE]

Well, i'm so impressed with the drive and the current setup i have, i'm going for the full version of PDVD. Would you guys be so kind to advise me here on this matter?

Is this version of POWERDVD from Newegg the same as the version on the Cyberlink website?
NEWEGG: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681565108SF

CYBERLINK Website: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/products/main_112_ENU.html

If so, why is the version at Newegg so much cheaper.. AND will i be able to make an ISO of the downloadable version for future use should i loose a drive?

Thanks. :)

[Davinleeds]

Is Bourne Ultimatum MPEG4-AVC?

VC1

[kylebisme]

If so, why is the version at Newegg so much cheaper..
Because, unlike Cyberlink, Newegg sells it for less than the MSRP.

AND will i be able to make an ISO of the downloadable version for future use should i loose a drive?
You can copy the download to an optical disk or a flash drive or wherever you like, or just download another copy from Newegg or elsewhere and use the activation code Newegg sold you.

[PWNKAKE]

Thanks. :)

[laguna_b]

Because, unlike Cyberlink, Newegg sells it for less than the MSRP.

You can copy the download to an optical disk or a flash drive or wherever you like, or just download another copy from Newegg or elsewhere and use the activation code Newegg sold you.

Better yet, get an HP HD-DVD drive or LG dual drive and get the OEM version FREE!

[kylebisme]

I did that first, but I wanted surround sound in situations where the OEM version limits audio playback to 2 channels, so I had to spend another $72 on the full version.

[laguna_b]

I did that first, but I wanted surround sound in situations where the OEM version limits audio playback to 2 channels, so I had to spend another $72 on the full version.

I get 5.1 through SPDIF on my system using the OEM version. I don't have analog output from the iMac for more than 2 and I never tried it on the PC I set up for HTPC. But my Denon receiver sees 5.1 (other options work as well I suspect)

I went through a whole series of downloads from Cyberlink to get my system running so I am not absolutely sure one of them didn't enable it, but I doubt it.

Just choose SPDIF in the audio setup.


One more thing...that extra money went for a later version of the SW that won't play from an HDD unless you convert to iso. :(

[Socio]

On the Borne Ultimatum stutter problem; perhaps it is an audio problem I know on my HD DVD import version of Ghost Rider that playing it using DTS 2.0 works fine but playing it back with DTS HD 5.1 enabled will make the video stutter.

[nm88]

On the Borne Ultimatum stutter problem; perhaps it is an audio problem I know on my HD DVD import version of Ghost Rider that playing it using DTS 2.0 works fine but playing it back with DTS HD 5.1 enabled will make the video stutter.Transcoding a 640 or 768 Kbps DD+ stream to DD through SPDIF will cause jerky playback.

[Davinleeds]

Through spdif no jerkyness, info shows Audio MLP 5.1 1872kbps varies bitrate 24.9 varies receiver lights up digital, currently playing.
I have it at DDPlus 5.1 384Kbps now, stutters when I do web page changes on primary monitor.

[ditcho]

Does Ultra still down-rez VGA to 540P? I'm not seeing a huge quality difference (may be the movies I'm using - SpiderMan 3, 300, Transformers) between HD disks and upscaled SD DVD's. I'm not seeing anywhere in the Power DVD control panel to tell me what resolution video is being output in.

This is one of the most persistant untrue rumours I've been reading on the net. It never has down-rezzed VGA to 540p, with or without HDCP. There aren't any discs in North America that have that flag set yet. I don't know how this rumour has started (perhaps a hearsay). It can very easily be checked using the DVE high definition HD DVD - a quick look on the resolution pattern shows full 1280x720 perfect pixel mapping on my 1280x720 native resolution screen through VGA. And there is HDCP on the disc.
I'm sure this won't kill the downrez legend, but I decided to throw my 2 cents, in case anyone cares about the facts.

[kylebisme]

I get 5.1 through SPDIF on my system using the OEM version.
Same here, for most stuff. Try a TrueHD 5.1 track though, it decodes as 2 channel with the OEM version.

[Davinleeds]

Same here, for most stuff. Try a TrueHD 5.1 track though, it decodes as 2 channel with the OEM version.

Where would we see that?

[ausvette]

Where would we see that?

Well I've only been able to get stereo PCM off the Blu-Ray version of Fifth Element Remastered which has Dolby TrueHd over spdif. This is with Powerdvd Ultra all versions I've tried (including latest).

Anyone had more luck with this movie - only one I've had this sort of problem with ?

[kylebisme]

Where would we see that?
Are you asking where you would see at a TrueHD 5.1 track? Lots of Blu-ray and HD DVDs use the codec. Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time is the one disk I own that uses TrueHD for 5.1 while the DD track is only 2.0, leaving no way to get surround sound off the disk with the OEM version of PDVDU.

[kylebisme]

Well I've only been able to get stereo PCM off the Blu-Ray version of Fifth Element Remastered which has Dolby TrueHd over spdif. This is with Powerdvd Ultra all versions I've tried (including latest).

Anyone had more luck with this movie - only one I've had this sort of problem with ?
I'm not sure what you are asking, Dobly TrueHD won't fit over S/PDIF. The remastered version of the The Fifth Element has two English tracks, one 5.1 PCM and the other 5.1 TrueHD. I don't have that disk, but I have others using the same audio formats, and PCM will work with S/PDIF mixing enabled in both versions, while only the retail version supports surround sound for TrueHD.

[jtscribe]

I don't think it's ever meant to not downscale the image through analog output, due to AACS restrictions. You could probably get around it using AnyDVD HD.

Believe me, if you have a 1080p-capable monitor, you WILL see the difference, especially in movies like those you just mentioned. Or are you using a smallish CRT monitor (or a less than capable LCD)?

By the way, if you wanna compare the potential of 1080p video, just get Ratatouille or Corpse Bride, and compare those. These are the sharpest I've seen so far, due to their being "filmed" in the digital domain, with sources much higher in resolution than 1080p. So essentially, 1080p is a downscale for these movies. Most other computer-generated movies should be the same, but I haven't seen others.

Bummer. My TV's native res, 1366x768, is only available through VGA. I went ahead and hooked it up, DVI-HDMI, at 720P, and after getting the colors set up right, there is a definite quality difference. I suppose I'm losing a little bit of screen real estate, but the panel seems to be scaling the input signal pretty decently.

Everything I've read indicates that unless you're using a fairly large screen, there isn't much of a noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p. I've currently got a 37", and I don't think I could talk the wife into a 40"+ 1080p screen right after dropping 300 bones on a HD disk drive. ;)

[Davinleeds]

Are you asking where you would see at a TrueHD 5.1 track? Lots of Blu-ray and HD DVDs use the codec. Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time is the one disk I own that uses TrueHD for 5.1 while the DD track is only 2.0, leaving no way to get surround sound off the disk with the OEM version of PDVDU.
I've plenty of HDDVD with HD sound tracks. Where does it show on your Ultra or other wise that you are getting 5.1 audio verses the OEM version. As far as I've read no PDVD version does the HD audio. You stated you upgraded from OEM to Ultra to get 5.1. Where does Ultra show this?

[Andy o]

Bummer. My TV's native res, 1366x768, is only available through VGA. I went ahead and hooked it up, DVI-HDMI, at 720P, and after getting the colors set up right, there is a definite quality difference. I suppose I'm losing a little bit of screen real estate, but the panel seems to be scaling the input signal pretty decently.

Everything I've read indicates that unless you're using a fairly large screen, there isn't much of a noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p. I've currently got a 37", and I don't think I could talk the wife into a 40"+ 1080p screen right after dropping 300 bones on a HD disk drive. ;)

I still don't have a big-screen TV, but I do have a pretty good NEC 25.5" LCD that provides 1920x1200 resolution. It is my first and probably will be my only LCD ever, because I didn't wanna have that nonsense of 1680x1050 or less resolution if I knew 1080p content was gonna be out soon.

So it is small, but I sit close to the monitor like with any PC. You're right, you can't probably see the difference between 720p and 1080p with a 37" TV from TV viewing distance, but no one can say there's no significant difference between them because of that. There IS a difference, and with a good 1080p monitor or TV and good enough viewing distance, AND with a good source (like Ratatouille and Corpse Bride, etc,) you will see a difference.

I remember not very long ago, might have been just more than a year, there were MANY naysayers about all the 1080p-capable TVs that were coming out. Their main point was that there's no reason to buy one because "there's no 1080p content available". What a dumb argument. But they also said that there's not much difference between 720p and 1080p. I doubt that. I can't see much difference in 1080i and 720p content from broadcast HDTV, but with the right source like those movies, you can see the full potential of 1080p. Because 1080p is already very high resolution, the source has very big shoes to fill, in order to get the full potential. Many movies just don't have a high enough-resolution to begin with at the source (the master), so at 720p they might look pretty much the same.

[kylebisme]

I've plenty of HDDVD with HD sound tracks. Where does it show on your Ultra or other wise that you are getting 5.1 audio verses the OEM version. As far as I've read no PDVD version does the HD audio. You stated you upgraded from OEM to Ultra to get 5.1. Where does Ultra show this?

Both the crippled OEM version and the retail full version are called PowerDVD Ultra, and show what it is decoding on the "Show Information" overlay which can be toggled from the right-click menu while playing a movie. The OEM version says TrueHD 5.1 tracks are 2.0, and it outputs only stereo sound when playing them. The full version shows the track being decoded as 5.1, and it outputs sound for all 5.1 channels.

[kylebisme]

Ah, I overlooked this part of the discussion:

Bummer. My TV's native res, 1366x768, is only available through VGA. I went ahead and hooked it up, DVI-HDMI, at 720P, and after getting the colors set up right, there is a definite quality difference. I suppose I'm losing a little bit of screen real estate, but the panel seems to be scaling the input signal pretty decently.
You are downsampling 1920x1080 video to 1280x720 on your PC, and then upsampling that to 1366x768. All else being equal, you are loosing sharpness there which you would otherwise have if you used VGA to run a higher resolution to your display. Granted, HDMI might look better in other respects to make it the preferable option, but only if your videocard and/or display doesn't handle VGA well.

I don't think it's ever meant to not downscale the image through analog output, due to AACS restrictions.
It doesn't downsample the analog output, and there is no AACS restriction requireing it to. There is only an Image Constraint Token specified by the AACS that can be implemented to require downsampling video prior to analog output, but that is not used on any currently released disks and likely won't be used at all for at least another year.

I remember not very long ago, might have been just more than a year, there were MANY naysayers about all the 1080p-capable TVs that were coming out. Their main point was that there's no reason to buy one because "there's no 1080p content available". What a dumb argument.
That was a dumb argument even then. 1080i content is actually from 1080p source material and is only interlaced to conform to trasmision standards. A progressive scan display deinterlaces that content and recovers the 1080p source images, so there was plenty of 1080p content even back when the vast majority of the HD content avalable was that which is brodcast at 1080i.


Because 1080p is already very high resolution, the source has very big shoes to fill, in order to get the full potential. Many movies just don't have a high enough-resolution to begin with at the source (the master), so at 720p they might look pretty much the same.
The vast majorty of Hollywood movies are shot of flim that has an effective resolution far greater than 1080p.

[laguna_b]

Both the crippled OEM version and the retail full version are called PowerDVD Ultra, and show what it is decoding on the "Show Information" overlay which can be toggled from the right-click menu while playing a movie. The OEM version says TrueHD 5.1 tracks are 2.0, and it outputs only stereo sound when playing them. The full version shows the track being decoded as 5.1, and it outputs sound for all 5.1 channels.

Seems like a lot to pay $99 for....and then have HDD playback hobbled. Do you feel the audio difference is worth it? Are there a lot of titles where you get an advantage vs. regular 5.1?

[kapone]

"The vast majorty of Hollywood movies are shot of flim that has an effective resolution far greater than 1080p."

In excess of 4000p.

[Davinleeds]

"Both the crippled OEM version and the retail full version are called PowerDVD Ultra"
Can you provide a version#? Also a screen shot? Thanks. Since PDVD can't output HD Audio it should output it as 2.0 I'm interested in PDVD outputing True HD 5.1 as 5.1 as you state.

[kylebisme]

Seems like a lot to pay $99 for....and then have HDD playback hobbled. Do you feel the audio difference is worth it? Are there a lot of titles where you get an advantage vs. regular 5.1?
I paid $72 though Newegg, and couldn't care less about playing ripped content. As for the difference, that depends on your setup, the content you run on it, and what you'd like to get out of that. Personally, I have no regrets with the purchase.

"Both the crippled OEM version and the retail full version are called PowerDVD Ultra"
Can you provide a version#? Also a screen shot? Thanks. Since PDVD can't output HD Audio it should output it as 2.0 I'm interested in PDVD outputing True HD 5.1 as 5.1 as you state.

I am using the latest version, 7.3.3319f. As for a screenshot, at least on my setup PDVDU disables Windows's print screen function, but I used Vista's Snipping Tool to grab the image I attached. The video overlay is comes out blank, but the Show Information overlay was is captured fine and shows it decoding TrueHD 5.1.

Anyway, you seem to be confused as to the ablities of the software as well as what constitutes HD audio. Even the OEM version outputs 5.1 PCM over analog just fine, and that is HD audio. The OEM version also supports TrueHD too, just as 2.0 max. That TrueHD 2.0 is still HD audio all the same, it just isn't surround sound like you can get with the full version of PowerDVD. I'm not sure how DTS-MA support works as I don't have any disks with such tracks, but I'm guessing it is restricted to 2.0 on the OEM version but the full version allows surround sound just like TrueHD.

Note on my screenshot, down near the bottom right corner, it says "Deluxe Version" where as the OEM says "2CH" instead. That "2CH" on the OEM version alludes to it's crippled sound support.

[PWNKAKE]

Well i got Power DVD ultra installed after purchasing it from Newegg... and i can report back that it does indeed sound better.. however. I'm very upset i can't get the DTS mixing working without the "Tinny" sound.. kinda like a feedback loop within the audio. The feature sounds better as far as seperation and "punch" and i can't leave it on because of the feedback whine involved. I've used lots of words to describe it hoping some of you guys have also heard it and found a workaround. I read back quite a few pages and found evidence of this same issue reported by a few users. Anyone got it working correctly??? And on what hardware.. or is it simply just a broken feature? (appears to be in the past posts, but i was hoping someone might have found a work around since there has been no mention of it in a few posts).

Thanks!!

[bondisdead]

I paid $72 though Newegg, and couldn't care less about playing ripped content. As for the difference, that depends on your setup, the content you run on it, and what you'd like to get out of that. Personally, I have no regrets with the purchase.



I am using the latest version, 7.3.3319f. As for a screenshot, at least on my setup PDVDU disables Windows's print screen function, but I used Vista's Snipping Tool to grab the image I attached. The video overlay is comes out blank, but the Show Information overlay was is captured fine and shows it decoding TrueHD 5.1.

Anyway, you seem to be confused as to the ablities of the software as well as what constitutes HD audio. Even the OEM version outputs 5.1 PCM over analog just fine, and that is HD audio. The OEM version also supports TrueHD too, just as 2.0 max. That TrueHD 2.0 is still HD audio all the same, it just isn't surround sound like you can get with the full version of PowerDVD. I'm not sure how DTS-MA support works as I don't have any disks with such tracks, but I'm guessing it is restricted to 2.0 on the OEM version but the full version allows surround sound just like TrueHD.

Note on my screenshot, down near the bottom right corner, it says "Deluxe Version" where as the OEM says "2CH" instead. That "2CH" on the OEM version alludes to it's crippled sound support.

I also have PowerDVD Ultra Deluxe (retail version), and have no issues with playing from my hard-drive. Let me look at which version I have, as that is a concern if I do an update at some point!!

I am curious about how you are getting the TrueHD 5.1 out of your computer and into your receiver/amplifier? I have tried both 8-channel analog out from the Realtek audio on my Asus MB, and also the SPDIF. I can get 5.1 via the SPDIF (though probably downmixed, and not TrueHD), but I cannot seem to get my receiver ot play the TrueHD 5.1. I have an Onkyo SR805, which has this capability. I would think it would display this info. Anyways, just hoping you could share your setup, as it might help me fix mine! :-)

[kylebisme]

I use analog connections from a Creative X-Fi to to a Denon 2805. Nothing supports TrueHD over S/PDIF, the connection simply doesn't have the bandwidth handle such high bitrate formats. But what trouble are you having with analog output?

[Andy o]

It doesn't downsample the analog output, and there is no AACS restriction requireing it to. There is only an Image Constraint Token specified by the AACS that can be implemented to require downsampling video prior to analog output, but that is not used on any currently released disks and likely won't be used at all for at least another year.

OK, noted. I didn't realize that no one was implementing the ICT. Hey, if people say that their image is being downscaled to 540p, I have no reason not to believe them. I would assume they can tell the difference clearly between that and 1080 resolution or how to test it.

The vast majorty of Hollywood movies are shot of flim that has an effective resolution far greater than 1080p.

That may be so ideally, (or not, in some cases), but the master from which the 1080p video is taken from many times (I would say most) is not up to par with the potential of 1080p, be it from age degradation, or just plain cost-cutting mishandling of the process. Also, dark scenes shot with high-sensitivity film or digital cameras should lose a lot of resolution, you can even see this in very new HD movies like Ocean's 13. Sometimes I have seen lens aberrations in the movies that limit the resolution to lower than what 1080p can resolve too, but on DVD or maybe even 720p they aren't very noticeable, or at all. That's the fault of the source equipment, admittedly not the film itself, but you know, the weakest link dictates resolution here.

Anyway, if all or even most movies coming out in 1080p had a higher resolution source, we wouldn't be seeing such huge differences between the 1080p final HD discs. Most movies I've seen in HD don't even come close to Ratatouille and Corpse Bride (and presumably other digital source material). Corpse bride admittedly has an analog capture (the sensor on the Canon 1D II is still analog, before A/D), but the sensor being much bigger and higher resolution than most HD digital cameras compensates for that.

[Andy o]

"The vast majorty of Hollywood movies are shot of flim that has an effective resolution far greater than 1080p."

In excess of 4000p.

That does seem like too much. Can you point me to some sources? Even photo 35mm film doesn't resolve 2000 line pairs/picture height easily, or at all. I reckon 35mm movie film is even smaller. You're not talking about 70mm stock are you?

[tsb]

That does seem like too much. Can you point me to some sources? Even photo 35mm film doesn't resolve 2000 line pairs/picture height easily, or at all. I reckon 35mm movie film is even smaller. You're not talking about 70mm stock are you?

I think it's the lenses that hold back perceived detail. Even the best lenses can't fully utilize the formats.

I've also seen lots of sources claim we'd need at least 25MP to match 35mm resolution, so 1080p is far off.

I've seen those Chemei medical LCDs with a really high resolution (1500p?) that completely blew away any 1080p material I've ever seen. They were showing some bees working around their hive in the demo I saw. I'm not sure what the source was though.

[politby]

-->kylebisme:
I also have an X-Fi. Can you share how you have PDVD and other decoding s/w (including the Creative driver) set up to get the hd soundtrack output over analog?

thanks
politby

[sarah99]

That does seem like too much. Can you point me to some sources? Even photo 35mm film doesn't resolve 2000 line pairs/picture height easily, or at all. I reckon 35mm movie film is even smaller. You're not talking about 70mm stock are you?

"• The resolution of the movies shown in theaters

And now to answer your last question, “What is the resolution of the movies shown in theaters?” This one isn’t as easy to answer because well, there is no fixed answer. Film stock isn’t bound by the same rules that make up the pixels in a frame of video. Most of the data I’ll cite from here on out comes from a great study done by the International Telecommunications Union, specifically sub-group 6 new window which deals with large screen digital imagery. Their study titled ‘Image resolution of 35mm film used in theatrical presentation’ is as close to the definitive word as I’ve found on the subject.

One thing to keep in mind is that analog film has no ‘lines of resolution’ as we know them in the video world, but it is possible to arrive at a comparative resolution by using a resolution-chart in the frame that equates to fixed video resolutions.

The study indicated a 35mm negative has a resolution in excess of 2400 lines by picture height but obviously we don’t watch negatives, the film has to be processed into a stock reel. Those tested stock reels were found to have a maximum comparative line resolution of 1400 lines P/H, still considerably more resolution than 1080p’s vertical integer. (Note: the P/H formula is used because film has the same vertical and horizontal resolution, where video does not.)

Luckily the study new window also included real-world data collected at a sampling of movie houses. I say luckily because no matter how good the film stock, the theater’s equipment plays just as much into how the projected image looks as the film itself.
This part of the study only reinforces my anticipation for high definition DVD as the numbers indicated what we’re seeing at the theater in many cases falls short of 1080p. The study indicated a comparative, average line resolution of between 685 lines and 875 lines P/H. But again don’t let these numbers alarm you as the film stock itself is more than capable of bettering HDTV, it seems it’s the movie houses that have been letting us down."

[Andy o]

"• The resolution of the movies shown in theaters

And now to answer your last question, “What is the resolution of the movies shown in theaters?” This one isn’t as easy to answer because well, there is no fixed answer. Film stock isn’t bound by the same rules that make up the pixels in a frame of video. Most of the data I’ll cite from here on out comes from a great study done by the International Telecommunications Union, specifically sub-group 6 new window which deals with large screen digital imagery. Their study titled ‘Image resolution of 35mm film used in theatrical presentation’ is as close to the definitive word as I’ve found on the subject.

One thing to keep in mind is that analog film has no ‘lines of resolution’ as we know them in the video world, but it is possible to arrive at a comparative resolution by using a resolution-chart in the frame that equates to fixed video resolutions.

The study indicated a 35mm negative has a resolution in excess of 2400 lines by picture height but obviously we don’t watch negatives, the film has to be processed into a stock reel. Those tested stock reels were found to have a maximum comparative line resolution of 1400 lines P/H, still considerably more resolution than 1080p’s vertical integer. (Note: the P/H formula is used because film has the same vertical and horizontal resolution, where video does not.)

Luckily the study new window also included real-world data collected at a sampling of movie houses. I say luckily because no matter how good the film stock, the theater’s equipment plays just as much into how the projected image looks as the film itself.
This part of the study only reinforces my anticipation for high definition DVD as the numbers indicated what we’re seeing at the theater in many cases falls short of 1080p. The study indicated a comparative, average line resolution of between 685 lines and 875 lines P/H. But again don’t let these numbers alarm you as the film stock itself is more than capable of bettering HDTV, it seems it’s the movie houses that have been letting us down."

Where's that taken from?

Anyway, it seems to back up my assumptions, if that's what you meant. I was talking about a resolution of 2000 line pairs/picture height (what the other poster's claim of "4000p" theoretically implies), so these numbers quoted are even less than that. 800 lines per picture height, from the context of the quote, is just 400 line pairs/PH. That's just below the theoretical 540 line pairs/PH of 1080p video, and probably close to the actual 1080p resolution in practice for most movies. That seems to agree with the observation that many, if not most, 1080p movies are already resolution-limited at the source.

[jatoghia]

By the way, it took over two week of b%#&@ing at Cyberlink and dealing with their incredibly incompetent technical support staff that never got a grasp of the problem I was seeing (until I created a web page showing what I should be seeing and what I am seeing) for them to contact their product validation team and confirm there is a bug in PowerDVD Ultra that causes their software to disable nVidia's HDTV overscan compensation during playback of HD-DVD and Blu-ray sources.

nVidia figured out the problem immediately when they said that 3rd party software can use a default profile instead of the custom profile that is created under the nVidia control panel, thereby causing your perfectly sized screen that you so painstakingly adjusted to fit a Samsung DLP television to revert to its default setting, which in my case stretches the screen beyond the edges of my TV and consequently cuts off about 5-10% of the image in each dimension.

Cyberlink told me that they are now working on a fix. Stay tuned.

[sarah99]

Where's that taken from?

taken from here
http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/04/mailbag_hd_movi.html

similar one here
http://www.filmschoolonline.com/sample_lessons/sample_lesson_HD_vs_35mm.htm

The prints were projected in six movie theaters in various countries, and a panel of experts made the assessments of the projected images using a well defined formula. The results are as follows: 35mm RESOLUTION Measurement

Perceived lines actually viewable
Answer Print MTF 1400
Release Print MTF 1000
Theater Highest Assessment 875
Theater Average Assessment 750

Conclusion
surprisingly they say 1080p looks just as good/better than they can see in the cinema

(but I can't find what they were comparing, a 1080p picture showing a 2.35:1 movie only has a resolution of 800 lines of picture
so if they were counting from top to bottom of the picture in the theatre ..... the MTF of 1400 would be almost 4x the resolution of 1080p)

[marbanno]

Good work! I've been having the same problem and had to revert to a 4:3 aspect ratio to pull everything in. Hopefullly Cyberlink will come out with a solution

[laguna_b]

I use analog connections from a Creative X-Fi to to a Denon 2805. Nothing supports TrueHD over S/PDIF, the connection simply doesn't have the bandwidth handle such high bitrate formats. But what trouble are you having with analog output?

I am not sure what the limits of the spec are but the media can support an EASY 50mb/s. I worked with POF (plastic optical fiber) at well over 100mb/s and as i recall I went either 50 or 100 feet.

[laguna_b]

Conclusion
surprisingly 1080p looks just as good/better than you will see in the cinema

You must go to really good theaters....I gave up theaters which seemed to have teh resolving power of a weak DVD on my Barco 1209. Film certainly CAN be a lot better but only if you go to a really good theater. Personally I get disappointed at the softness of the image now. (not to mention the other disadvantages)

[AbMagFab]

You must go to really good theaters....I gave up theaters which seemed to have teh resolving power of a weak DVD on my Barco 1209. Film certainly CAN be a lot better but only if you go to a really good theater. Personally I get disappointed at the softness of the image now. (not to mention the other disadvantages)

- Soft Image
- Dull images
- Sticky floors
- Noisy teenagers
- Lousy sound (many seem to be front-only nowadays)
- Underlit (like 10fl or something bad)
- Uncomfortable seats
- Stale popcorn-from-a-plastic-bag
- $10+ per person per ticket

[Rew452]

- Soft Image
- Dull images
- Sticky floors
- Noisy teenagers
- Lousy sound (many seem to be front-only nowadays)
- Underlit (like 10fl or something bad)
- Uncomfortable seats
- Stale popcorn-from-a-plastic-bag
- $10+ per person per ticket

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!

Rew

[rdgrimes]

I got this with the new LG GGC-H20L drive. Uninstalled an older OEM version of PDVD and installed this one. The program does not show up in my programs list, or in the "HD manager" thingy that Cyberlink installs. However, it does show up in "Add-Remove Programs", and all the program files are present. If I try to launch the program from the EXE program file, I get a message window telling me that my trial period has expired and asking for a license code.

I'll be damned if I'll go buy the retail version if I can't get this one to work first. Cyberlink pretty much refuses to support it because it's OEM. Obviously I'll get nowhere with LG "support".

Any thoughts on this? I've done registry cleaning, re-installs and about everything I can think of to get a clean install. There's no help files or instruction anywhere on the CD.
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