I heard a rumor that there's a new very large tube mono amp to be exhibited at CES that's gonna be modular in design, allow you to swap tubes, etc. Only catch is you're gonna need like 3-4 folks to move it and place it, its so large and heavy.

Anyone heard anything about this?

Its supposed to be a giant killer of tube amps.

What would you want featurewise and designwise if you were spending big bucks for an expensive tube mono amp?

Bulldoggers gonna really have ta save his money now.

Too early for April Fool Steve!

I hear the Model A is going to be available next year in more than one color.

I hope I can get it in black.

Actually rumor is that Vladimir Lamm will be show casing his much awaited ML 3.0 mono amp which is his new SET rated at 30 wpc and has an MSRP of $135K.

Apparently each channel has a separate stand alone power supply---ie 4 boxes in all

He has been working on it for years. Was to have been released last year

And this is no joke

it will be a killer tube amp for those who want to sell their Wavac amps

What I don't get is this. With upper end guys, it's not the measurements, it's the subjectivity. "The measurements don't count". So, if Lamm comes out with something that is more expensive, what, it has to be subjectively better?!? How do we know it's a "killer tube amp"? Because it's $135K? Even if it measured better, that wouldn't matter because "the measurements don't count". So, that would make that pure conjecture, now wouldn't it? I remember when actual audiophiles used to judge a component based on its actual sound, not on its "predicted" sound.

One thing I've found though, if you have a particular flavor for which measurements don't matter, there's a product that costs 1/2 to 1/10th the price that is just as good, but doesn't have the name or the price to make the sound predictably a "killer".

And why are so convinced that it won't be a killer amp?

there's a product that costs 1/2 to 1/10th the price that is just as good, but doesn't have the name or the price to make the sound predictably a "killer".

And of course we all know what that product is --right John :(

And why are so convinced that it won't be a killer amp?

I never said I was or wasn't. There's no subjective data either way upon which to make *any* conclusion about its subjective sound. Now, if you're an objectivist and recognize +/- 8dB FR errors exist and can hear them, and this helps fix that, maybe.

And of course we all know what that product is --right John :(

I was thinking of the Audio Innovations Alto or the Audio Refinement Complete Amplifier or any of a number of very nice products that over perform rather than just being expensive.

I never said I was or wasn't. There's no subjective data either way upon which to make *any* conclusion about its subjective sound. Now, if you're an objectivist and recognize +/- 8dB FR errors exist and can hear them, and this helps fix that, maybe.

C'mon man...the amp hasn't even been released yet and you seem to be questioning data that no one other than Vladimir has seen. Check back next month John

OB, except for digital amplification, there really isn't anything new under the sun in amplification. We're just going round and round and round with this. Every year, a dozen or more companies claim to have done stuff that no other person in the last ~100 years has been able to do. It's like "hey, we've achieved perfection, but for another $50K, you can have *better* than perfection". Or something like that. I'm just saying that "killer amp" is really just if that's what you perceive it to be. But doesn't it make sense to *actually* hear it first?!? It's not like making a leap forward in speaker design or room correction or DSP or something where we actually have places to make large strides.

Besides, if it were only $10K (at which it could probably easily be profitable in quantities), would you say the same thing? The "it's the most expensive thing they've ever done, it MUST be incredible" thinking is what drives most of high-end, but it has precious little to do with reality.

More re the new tube mono amp - its real and will be at CES:

Features of the new tube amps.

1. Monoblock design.
2. Completely separate isolated power supply for the power output stage and driver stage. Even has 2 power cords.
3. Modular design. Completely change the circuit topology and tubes being used by plugging in different modules.
Power output module can be push-pull 300B at 45 watts, push pull 6550 at 100 watts, push pull EL34 at 50 watts, etc.
Different driver and rectifier modules available.
Each module is individually 100% EMI/RFI shielded.
With all the different available modules this is 30 amps in one.
4. Modules simply plug in. Once the new module is plugged in, everything is automatic. No need to re-bias tubes or click any switches or anything. The modules are as easy to change as plugging a desk lamp into a different outlet.
5. No capacitors in the signal path. Interstage coupling is done with transformers.
6. Both power supplies have massive choke filtering.
7. The B+ supply module can be solid state or tube rectification.
8. The monoblocks are all made in North America with all parts, labor, and materials from North America.
9. Tube sockets are milled Teflon with gold pins.
10. Chassis sides are made of 2" x 6" aluminum. Bottom is 1/4" thick aluminum.
11. Sides and top are 1/2" thick granite.

The "granite" is a granite like material but one which sounds fantastic as used in audio components.

except for digital amplification, there really isn't anything new under the sun in amplification. We're just going round and round and round with this.

John, I continue to be amazed as to how much smarter you are than the rest of us

John, I continue to be amazed as to how much smarter you are than the rest of us

Hey, I never said it wasn't *cool*, but what about "cool" makes it *sound* better (especially since it's not available for audition)? I just think your statement that it "will be a killer" is a perfect underscoring of how self-described audiophiles jump to conclusions about sound quality based on pure marketing (and then stick by it no matter what). Maybe it's like getting 5 different tube amps in one but on the other hand, how much do 5 state of the art tube amps cost in total? Not $135K!

On a regular basis in motorcycle and car engineering, companies tout huge performance enhancing technologies - four wheel steering, forkless suspension, etc, etc. Many of these work, but many get their butts kicked because they can't hold up to more boring technologies. "We did it, it *must* be better!!!" But then reality kicks in. There is cool and there is better. You're falsely associating the two somehow.

Anyway, I'm sure that amp is *cool*, I just find it amazing how easily people are sucked into marketing and assume that they can hear that it is better (without even hearing it)

More re the new tube mono amp - its real and will be at CES:

Features of the new tube amps.

1. Monoblock design.
2. Completely separate isolated power supply for the power output stage and driver stage. Even has 2 power cords.
3. Modular design. Completely change the circuit topology and tubes being used by plugging in different modules.
Power output module can be push-pull 300B at 45 watts, push pull 6550 at 100 watts, push pull EL34 at 50 watts, etc.
Different driver and rectifier modules available.
Each module is individually 100% EMI/RFI shielded.
With all the different available modules this is 30 amps in one.
4. Modules simply plug in. Once the new module is plugged in, everything is automatic. No need to re-bias tubes or click any switches or anything. The modules are as easy to change as plugging a desk lamp into a different outlet.
5. No capacitors in the signal path. Interstage coupling is done with transformers.
6. Both power supplies have massive choke filtering.
7. The B+ supply module can be solid state or tube rectification.
8. The monoblocks are all made in North America with all parts, labor, and materials from North America.
9. Tube sockets are milled Teflon with gold pins.
10. Chassis sides are made of 2" x 6" aluminum. Bottom is 1/4" thick aluminum.
11. Sides and top are 1/2" thick granite.

The "granite" is a granite like material but one which sounds fantastic as used in audio components.


got a photo?

got a photo?

4 of these amps are almost done for CES per my source. I will have a photo soon.

Wow. Luv to see the pictures.

Hey, I never said it wasn't *cool*, but what about "cool" makes it *sound* better (especially since it's not available for audition)? I just think your statement that it "will be a killer" is a perfect underscoring of how self-described audiophiles jump to conclusions about sound quality based on pure marketing (and then stick by it no matter what).

Let's put it this way.......

Vladimir has been working for years to bring this amp to market. It was supposedly going to have debuted at CES 2 years ago and then last year. Their has been much time and R&D spent by Vladimir doing what he does best.

As for the MSRP I do agree with you and having just bought my SL55 AMG it is priced out of my league.

BNow for an affluent attorney like Steve Bruzonsky, he will probably have them in every room....if for no othr reason but to serve as base board heaters in the cold Arizona winter weather ;)

BNow for an affluent attorney like Steve Bruzonsky, he will probably have them in every room....if for no othr reason but to serve as base board heaters in the cold Arizona winter weather ;)

Didn't you mean to say that as the attorney I am "effluent" (thats waste water, etc.) HA!

I am a looker and listener, but I've set my limits financially, happy with what I have, don't wanna piss of my wife anymore, and having new tube mono amps that take 3-4 folks to lift each one - GEEZ I'm too old and sore for that. DARN!
But it sure is interesting.

Didn't you mean to say that as the attorney I am "effluent" (thats waste water, etc.) HA!

I am a looker and listener, but I've set my limits financially, happy with what I have, don't wanna piss of my wife anymore, and having new tube mono amps that take 3-4 folks to lift each one - GEEZ I'm too old and sore for that. DARN!
But it sure is interesting.



I do agree. I never thought that I would ever buy another car when I am looking to make my life easier rather than more complicated. As for my gear like you I am totally satisfied and feel that the journey for me is over. I have reached audio nirvana.

Unfortunately my video end of the room is due for upgrade next year. I am going to bring Bruzonsky in as my consultant.

............. I am going to bring Bruzonsky in as my consultant.

good choice

good choice

only if he promises not to charge the hourly attorney rate

only if he promises not to charge the hourly attorney rate

How about if I charge twice the going rate? :eek:

Unfortunately my video end of the room is due for upgrade next year. I am going to bring Bruzonsky in as my consultant.

Hehehe

Have a peek here, Steve Bruzonsky would approve.......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=770486

http://i10.tinypic.com/2e2qf11.jpg


http://i11.tinypic.com/2lvb58x.jpg

........As for my gear like you I am totally satisfied and feel that the journey for me is over. I have reached audio nirvana.

.....

OB!!!! :(

It is quite understandable that you be satisfied but you know the journey is not over...

HAPPY HOLLIDAY to you all...

Hehehe

Have a peek here, Steve Bruzonsky would approve.......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=770486

http://i10.tinypic.com/2e2qf11.jpg


http://i11.tinypic.com/2lvb58x.jpg

Actually, OB, you don't need to pay me anything. Forget the newer digital projectors and displays. Go with the above Tim Martin dual (or even triple if you want) 9" Electrohome blended CRTs with the Blendzilla video processor/scaler,
of course with Mike Parker's latest CRT board, etc. mods. Heck, it won't cost half of one of your stereo Wilson speakers and it will look so good that your system will seem to sound much better! DO IT!

CRTs are like vinyl. Old goodies still are the best!!

Tim Martin beat me to it. We went out to look at XMas lights and I was planning to point you to this setup anyway.

And OB, once you buy this, then Tim can afford to buy these new mono tube amps I've been talkin' about cause Tim loves tube audio.

OB!!!! :(

It is quite understandable that you be satisfied but you know the journey is not over...

HAPPY HOLLIDAY to you all...

Frantz....trust me...it is

I was going to get back into vinyl, but the new car side tracked that idea.

I was going to get back into vinyl, but the new car side tracked that idea.

Thats only cause you insist on getting into vinyl by buying a turntable that costs no less than 20 grand!!!@@@ :D

:eek:

OB wants to upgrade his video monitor - a 30 year old Kloss Advent Novabeam projector with a curved 60" screen. I think its time. HA!

Actually rumor is that Vladimir Lamm will be show casing his much awaited ML 3.0 mono amp which is his new SET rated at 30 wpc and has an MSRP of $135K.

Apparently each channel has a separate stand alone power supply---ie 4 boxes in all

He has been working on it for years. Was to have been released last year

And this is no joke

it will be a killer tube amp for those who want to sell their Wavac amps


Yes, great to pay 135K for something that color the sound and you could build as good or better for 1000th of that price. A real "deal" there

I will shortly have some pics of the amps I discussed above, as the four prototypes are just being finished.

Meanwhile, I understand this exhibitor is sharing a two room suite with
a speaker company which got real nice reviews at last years show and I've
enclosed a photo of those speakers - they look like something out of the Battlestar Galactica tv show. :D

Yes, great to pay 135K for something that color the sound and you could build as good or better for 1000th of that price. A real "deal" there

I'm interested in your post because at the bottom of which there is indication that you use a tube amp. I guess that that was the real deal ;)

"Yes, great to pay 135K for something that color the sound and you could build as good or better for 1000th of that price. A real "deal" there

__________________
There is only one way to perfection
LD: HLD-X0, HLD-X9.
DVD: RP82 + SDI.
D-VHS: HM-DH30K.
Speakers: Sony SS-M9.
Amp: Tube Technology Synergy"

Yea, Nin74, given your above post and signature, please tell us about your tube amp.
Do you have any beef with the $135K tube amp other than its price???

Steve

will you be at CES?

Steve

will you be at CES?

Sorry, after coming five years in a row (and starting the AVS CES parties back in my moderating days, when I gave away more than $10,000 product gifts from manufacturers/retailers at the first two parties), I've missed the past two and now will be three. Just busy in my law practice and with family stuff. Hopefully will be able to come the next year. :D

unfortunately I won't be going this year either

trying to wrap up my OBG practice and devote my time to retirement and the new Medspa that I opened.

More re the new tube mono amp - its real and will be at CES:

Features of the new tube amps.

1. Monoblock design.
2. Completely separate isolated power supply for the power output stage and driver stage. Even has 2 power cords.
3. Modular design. Completely change the circuit topology and tubes being used by plugging in different modules.
Power output module can be push-pull 300B at 45 watts, push pull 6550 at 100 watts, push pull EL34 at 50 watts, etc.
Different driver and rectifier modules available.
Each module is individually 100% EMI/RFI shielded.
With all the different available modules this is 30 amps in one.
4. Modules simply plug in. Once the new module is plugged in, everything is automatic. No need to re-bias tubes or click any switches or anything. The modules are as easy to change as plugging a desk lamp into a different outlet.
5. No capacitors in the signal path. Interstage coupling is done with transformers.
6. Both power supplies have massive choke filtering.
7. The B+ supply module can be solid state or tube rectification.
8. The monoblocks are all made in North America with all parts, labor, and materials from North America.
9. Tube sockets are milled Teflon with gold pins.
10. Chassis sides are made of 2" x 6" aluminum. Bottom is 1/4" thick aluminum.
11. Sides and top are 1/2" thick granite.

The "granite" is a granite like material but one which sounds fantastic as used in audio components.

Interesting. An awful lot of these features are available on the recent crop of high-end guitar amps. Of course, the design goals for a guitar amp are rather different, and the price point is about an order of magnitude lower.....

Interesting. An awful lot of these features are available on the recent crop of high-end guitar amps. Of course, the design goals for a guitar amp are rather different, and the price point is about an order of magnitude lower.....

My understanding is that each of these mono tube amps will have 12 tubes, and that the tubes retail at $800 each. OUCH!!!

Sounds like something OB would have bought, but now that he's retiring from
OB-GYN practice he's gonna have ta hold the line on something.

Don't tell me... It's made in Arizona!

Interesting product portfolio. I don't expect them to sell very many though. It's just too over the top for most people with these budgets.

Sounds like something OB would have bought, but now that he's retiring from

you've got that right Steve

Don't tell me... It's made in Arizona!

Interesting product portfolio. I don't expect them to sell very many though. It's just too over the top for most people with these budgets.

A lot of good products are made here in Arizona!!!

Yes, that tube mono amp is definitely over the top, a statement product for the conneseur (how do you spell that) of the best. HA! :D

Here's some show reports on the Style-Lust speakers mentioned above:

http://shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2005/standout_vac.shtml


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue17/ces05dc9.htm

Of course, the design goals for a guitar amp are rather different, and the price point is about an order of magnitude lower.....

Flavor to taste? Seems like the same goal to me ;)

Flavor to taste? Seems like the same goal to me ;)



Well John...some of us drink Pellegrino whereas others such as you prefer sewer water.

Here's a sneak peak of the - - - - Granite Audio new tube mono amplifier:

Here's a sneak peak of the - - - - Granite Audio new tube mono amplifier:


Interesting and versatile..... between listenings it looks like it would make a wonderful chopping block. :D

Well John...some of us drink Pellegrino whereas others such as you prefer sewer water.

Gee, that's kind of harsh.

Well John...some of us drink Pellegrino.

Ahh, the great taste of marketing :D

Ahh, the great taste of marketing :D

Ahhh yes, even double blind tests would guaranty that those with discerning tastes would pick Pellegrino over sewer water. ;)

I'm interested in your post because at the bottom of which there is indication that you use a tube amp. I guess that that was the real deal ;)


No, my tube amp also color the sound and I understand that, that all tube amps do that. And you don't need to pay 135K for something like that.

Here's a sneak peak of the - - - - Granite Audio new tube mono amplifier:\\

Judging from the quality of the pictures, we've found the mystery phorographer of the Hussein hanging... Steve, there's a gov't somewhere overseas that want to ask you a few questions.... :D

No, my tube amp also color the sound and I understand that, that all tube amps do that. And you don't need to pay 135K for something like that.

But, NIN, the more expensive the euphony, the better it is! And, "warm, lush, liquid" at $2000 just doesn't cut it, you need $30,000 worth of "warm, lush, liquid" if you're going to enjoy music ;)

Ahhh yes, even double blind tests would guaranty that those with discerning tastes would pick Pellegrino over sewer water. ;)

Actually, you might try googling "bottled water" and "taste test" and just see how well "sewer water" fares.

Actually, you might try googling "bottled water" and "taste test" and just see how well "sewer water" fares.

This is one DBT that even I could pass John

Now you on the other hand??? :confused:

mmmmmmmmmm....... Sewer water!

Don't they say that one mans sewer water is another mans Dom?

Actually, you might try googling "bottled water" and "taste test" and just see how well "sewer water" fares.


I actually remember that test. That was the one where Evian(Naive spelled backwards) was found to taste worse than NY City tap water overwhelmingly by blinded taste tests.

This is one DBT that even I could pass John

Are you sure? Actual experts seem to not fare so well:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=778902003

I'll say it again....."Ah, the great taste of marketing"

Being an outsider to the whole nose bleed high end, it strikes me as strange that something not yet built is deemed to be a "killer" because someone's life long experience was used in designing and building it.

The makers of the Titanic felt the same way I am sure.

\\

Judging from the quality of the pictures, we've found the mystery phorographer of the Hussein hanging... Steve, there's a gov't somewhere overseas that want to ask you a few questions.... :D

Funny dude. I projected the photo with one of your refurbished CRT projectors and did the best I could. What did you expect? And I didn't use any power conditioning or tweaks. See the result? HAAAA!

Seriously. To get the website to upload the image, I had to downrez it and I'm likely not very good at that.

Curt, if you are going to CES, go to the Granite Audio room, at The Show
(not CES), which is in the hallway off the lobby of the St. Tropez Hotel

http://www.theshowlasvegas.com/main/index.php

Being an outsider to the whole nose bleed high end, it strikes me as strange that something not yet built is deemed to be a "killer" because someone's life long experience was used in designing and building it.

The makers of the Titanic felt the same way I am sure.
Bhagi,

Although it's not a guarantee, Vladimir Lamm has a fine "track record".

If someone produces several "killer products" in a row; it's only natural
to expect that the next in the series will also be great.

It's no guarantee, and I don't think anyone is going to buy the product without
auditioning it first; there's a good chance that it will also be a fine product.

The case of the Titanic is more about product abuse, rather than design flaw.
However, Harlan & Wolfe did not practice "defense in depth"; which would
mandate that you put enough lifeboat capacity on board even if you never
expect to use it.

I thought Lamm's claim to fame was that his tube amps measure better than other tube amps of similar design. Isn't that somewhat ironic? I guess if tubes measure better, they sound better and if solid state measures better than that, well, that means nothing :eek:

Well the curtain is coming down on this year's CES and still absolutely not one word breathed or a review given regarding Steve Bruzonsky's rumored amps from Granite.

I guess all of the fuss rests with the Lamm ML 3.

BTW..to John Ashman...WaVac had their amps on display at the show bearing in mind that their TOL amp lists for $350K. Think of how many NAD systems one of these amps could be exchanged for

Apparently the Lamm ML 3's were no-op due to a parts supply problem.

So I'm confused now... Does the $135K *include* the life raft, or is that an extra?

But, NIN, the more expensive the euphony, the better it is! And, "warm, lush, liquid" at $2000 just doesn't cut it, you need $30,000 worth of "warm, lush, liquid" if you're going to enjoy music ;)


Yes, that is correct. Too many audiophiles are believers of "if-its-more-expensive-it-will-be-better". Add placebo, because most don't "believe" in blind test, you have a big movment with snake oil sellers and believers that can say the most crazy things. Just look at our own valhall pc :D

Just look at our own valhall pc :D

Yes, but that really *is* self-inflicted ;)

BTW..to John Ashman...WaVac had their amps on display at the show bearing in mind that their TOL amp lists for $350K. Think of how many NAD systems one of these amps could be exchanged for

I might own one of those. After I have a Veyron, a Murcielago, at least 5 $million homes, a yacht, 20 different motorcycles, three wives...............

I might own one of those. After I have a Veyron, a Murcielago, at least 5 $million homes, a yacht, 20 different motorcycles, three wives...............


Just remember that if you have 3 wives, you'll have 3 mother-in-laws.


BTW: What is the penalty for bigamy?

Two mother-in-laws

Well the curtain is coming down on this year's CES and still absolutely not one word breathed or a review given regarding Steve Bruzonsky's rumored amps from Granite.

I guess all of the fuss rests with the Lamm ML 3.

BTW..to John Ashman...WaVac had their amps on display at the show bearing in mind that their TOL amp lists for $350K. Think of how many NAD systems one of these amps could be exchanged for

Granite Audio dumped doing the new tube mono amps once they heard that you were retiring and not buying any more audio gear. HA!

Seriously, my friend Lon went to CES. apparently the amps, which are prototypes,
weren't ready until late the 2nd day of CES, and they were on demo at the Granite Audio suite the 3rd and 4th (today) days of CES.

I imagine some reviews will stop popping up.

Also, Lon said The S.H.O.W. just wasn't busy at all at the St. Tropez. CES moved its high end audio, from next door to the St. Tropez at Alexis Park, to the Venetian, which sounds like the death knell of The S.H.O.W.

Also, Lon said The S.H.O.W. just wasn't busy at all at the St. Tropez. CES moved its high end audio, from next door to the St. Tropez at Alexis Park, to the Venetian, which sounds like the death knell of The S.H.O.W

I heard the same thing from audiophile buddies of mine

THE Show was vacant.

A photo of one of the monoblock Granite Audio amplifiers:

http://www.audiofederation.com/blog-images/IMG_7319.jpg

The black modules on the left can be inserted into the amp, replacing other black modules in order to change the sound.

Another photo is up in today's dailies [about half way down]:

http://www.audiofederation.com/hifiing/2007/CES2007/day4/index.htm

Luckily the kind fellow in the front room pointed me to this system in a room off to the side.... or I would never had seen it.

-Mike.