This was one of my favorite things at CEDIA. Looks like a couple of these would be an excellent match to Bruce's Rotary sub.

http://home.jlaudio.com/images/10411.jpg

JL AUDIO GOTHAM (http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=370)

Yes very nice. I listened to them at CEDIA '05 with three in front and I think two Fathoms in back in a room not half the size of my theater. It was almost like you could see the sound ! :D


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/CarlosMeat/JLAudioRoom02.jpg



http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/CarlosMeat/JLAudioRoom04.jpg



Art

JL indeed, these are very powerful and musical subs, I just introduced a Fathom 113 to my Super Maggie system and found the integration to be very smooth................

The only minor problem with the beautiful sub in Peter's picture is that although first shown over 2 years ago it still is not shipping, only the two smaller models are shipping (to VERY positive reviews). The Gotham is supposed to ship next year though I don't know if i would hold my breath for any product that is over 2 years late. It certainly looks fantastic, that's for sure.

I'm bringing the F113 in my demo configuration at home. Can't wait!

BTW, the F113 won sub of the year in Perfect Vision mag.


Regards,
Mike

Just pulled the trigger on F113.......Wait until my neighbor get a load of me,,,HEEeeeeeHHHAAAaaaHHaa.

The only minor problem with the beautiful sub in Peter's picture is that although first shown over 2 years ago it still is not shipping, only the two smaller models are shipping (to VERY positive reviews). The Gotham is supposed to ship next year though I don't know if i would hold my breath for any product that is over 2 years late. It certainly looks fantastic, that's for sure.

Yes, that is interesting QQQ. Do you have any thoughts as to why this is happening ?

Art

I asked the JL guy in another thread and he said they encountered some unexpected manufacturing issues. I joked that I was giving them an award for the longest delay between showing a product and shipping it. I certainly don't think it's anything "bad", i.e. company problems or anything like that. Home audio is a completely new market for them (car audio for those that don't know is their primary market). I don't know how large their company is but it's actually a bit amazing the drivers they are developing for their speakers. As you know very few companies manufacture their own drivers (I think they do, not sure).

I have a Gotham on order...preorder. Purchased dual f113 and one f112.Superb products.

As it will end,dual f113 up front with the Gotham and dual f112 in the rear. Now the wait for the Gotham.

Now the wait for the Gotham.

And exactly how long a wait is that for new orders?

I have a Gotham on order...preorder. Purchased dual f113 and one f112.Superb products.

As it will end,dual f113 up front with the Gotham and dual f112 in the rear. Now the wait for the Gotham.

I agree, they are superb. The Fathom is a no-brainer for their modest price.

The Gotham should be interesting when it finally arrives. The last I heard is that JL is finalizing the cabinet specification. Apparently the cabinet is so heavy that they were experiencing stress fractures when shipping across country. All I know is that the Fathom are packed exceptionally well. Love the donuts on the box. They will only release the Gotham once it is perfect.

I would expect other offerings from JL in the future including full-range speakers. They are here to stay in home audio.

And exactly how long a wait is that for new orders?

Exactly,I cannot tell you how long EXACTLY.What I know is by june 2007 I should have one home,or so was told at the store.

Surviving on Fathom subs now ;)

Apparently the cabinet is so heavy that they were experiencing stress fractures when shipping across country.
And that took them 3 years to fix (assuming delivery as reported of July 2007) ;) :)?

Interesting. JL Audio AFAIK started in car audio as very mediocre stuff. We saw a lot of it come in for repairs when I owned a large audio repair shop in the early 90s. Good to see they made good..:)

Most Everyone's Stuff Broke In The Early 90's.

Super curious about the MRSP of a Gothom???

If you have to ask...

I recall it being *around* 7.5K. Give or take.

If you have to ask...

You cant afford it. :(

WOW! That's a Honda, I'll stick with my f113.... Thank you.

(And next time I wouldn't ask HIFI GUY1)

Djoel

Super curious about the MRSP of a Gothom???

$9000 is the MSRP.

$9000 is the MSRP.


:eek: :eek: Would love to hear it one day...

I wonder how Krells Master reference would compare to the Gotham once it come out, but the JL is a bargain compare to the MR.

Thanks AudioArchitect

:eek: :eek: Would love to hear it one day...

I wonder how Krells Master reference would compare to the Gotham once it come out, but the JL is a bargain compare to the MR.

Thanks AudioArchitect

Ive only heard the Master reference once and I wasnt impressed, and the price is absurd. I like Krell amps and whatnot, but their speakers are lacking IMO.

JL told me "Q1CY07" for the bad boy...

However depending on your room 2 x F113's might be a better fit and less cash.


Regards,
Mike

I agree the Krell MRS is an overpriced piece,the amp is an absolute monster and the cabinet a work of industrial art. For the money and considfering the Gotham...it better use four 18" woofers(a la 5400 from TC sounds)and move four times more air.

Krell makes top quality amps,great speakers but subs...nah.

I agree the Krell MRS is an overpriced piece,the amp is an absolute monster and the cabinet a work of industrial art. For the money and considfering the Gotham...it better use four 18" woofers(a la 5400 from TC sounds)and move four times more air.

Krell makes top quality amps,great speakers but subs...nah.


I surely thought you had a Krell MRS laying around :D ,but I do have to agree it a work of art. Very serious looking SUB.
From time to time I see them on Audiogon selling used for around 15k.
Thats college tuition dough. :)

Djoel

And that took them 3 years to fix (assuming delivery as reported of July 2007) ;) :)?

The subs will arrive at their destination this upcoming summer. They are so heavy it took two years transit!!!@@@ :D

Perhaps the trucks carrying the subs should have had magnets placed on the fuel line.

Interesting. JL Audio AFAIK started in car audio as very mediocre stuff. We saw a lot of it come in for repairs when I owned a large audio repair shop in the early 90s. Good to see they made good..:)
Someone told me that JL was making some extremely high quality subs for car audio now. I guess this has carried over to their fairly recent impact in the home audio subwoofer market.

"And that took them 3 years to fix"

But they also had to completely redesign the suspension of the stagecoaches they ship them in.

Someone told me that JL was making some extremely high quality subs for car audio now. I guess this has carried over to their fairly recent impact in the home audio subwoofer market.

you can do better than JL in car audio

JL is famous for being over hyped and over priced, the fathom/gothams are just using W7 drivers (i beleive) which can be outdone. the fact the gotham is 9k is laughable at best.

I have a Gotham on order...preorder. Purchased dual f113 and one f112.Superb products.

As it will end,dual f113 up front with the Gotham and dual f112 in the rear. Now the wait for the Gotham.

What??? you only have ONE on preorder??? :eek: I have 3 on preorder so I'm changing my name to TheEAR and yours to TheEARLOBE :D

Just kidding, I'm happy with the 2 Fathoms.

The Bogg :)

you can do better than JL in car audio

JL is famous for being over hyped and over priced, the fathom/gothams are just using W7 drivers (i beleive) which can be outdone. the fact the gotham is 9k is laughable at best.
I don't want to turn this into a pissing match but you can't do better then the W7 for SQ in car audio.

The fathom/gothams don't use the W7 subs. Also show me a commercial under 10 grand that is better?

The Gotham at 3800 watts RMS sounds like it can just about break windows. That's simply insane power. Is there any home theater sub on the market that produces more power than that? And I'm not talking about DIY subs.

Also, anyone know how the Gotham G213 compares to the Fathom F113?

I am new to these forum but have lurked for a while I JUST recived my Gotham and will post some pictures tonight. I have a custom built dedicated room and I can tell you that with just the one Gotham, (I also have 3 Servo 15's ) there is so much more ability in this sub it is just incredible! At $11K it is not cheap by any stretch but I don't think I will EVER look back, just can't wait for the second one! :eek:

Please do post pictures because I am interested in your placement. If possible could you include a short comparison between the two?

Thanks
-Matt

Will do, I have noticed that the placement really is not that critical so far. Once the room eq is done I for the life of me cannot tell where the base is coming from and it always sounds like it is right there with the music or on the screen, truly amazing since I could always tell before if the 3 Servos I had were not acorss the front of the room. The amount of room pressurizing may have something to do with this as it is by no means "thin".

A very good friend and audiophile buddy of mine is running the large Pipedreams and just added a pair of JL Gothic subs. he lives in Dallas and I will e spending a weeekend with him in November to hear the system. He is using TacT for room equalization and he loves the subs.

I am new to these forum but have lurked for a while I JUST recived my Gotham and will post some pictures tonight. I have a custom built dedicated room and I can tell you that with just the one Gotham, (I also have 3 Servo 15's ) there is so much more ability in this sub it is just incredible! At $11K it is not cheap by any stretch but I don't think I will EVER look back, just can't wait for the second one! :eek:

Please post some photos. I've seen some photos from showrooms, but they are not high quality. Also JL has some of their website, but a few high resolution, real time in home pics would be greatly appreciated. I own the little brother/sister 113 and although it's not in the same league as the Fathom, the build quality and output for a small sealed sub is striking. That product truly makes my very small HT/music environment a pleasure. It's well worth the extra cost compared to the large boxed subs. Two of the Fathoms must be an incredible listening experience.

I've had two Fathom 113s since March and they are pretty amazing. I couldn't imagine two Gothams in my room but I sure wouldn't mind trying.

I've had two Fathom 113s since March and they are pretty amazing. I couldn't imagine two Gothams in my room but I sure wouldn't mind trying.

What is your cubic footage (dimensions)?

Mjorgensen

Congrats on your new sub, what a beautiful machine.

What is your cubic footage (dimensions)?
I figure up at about 3000 cubic feet.

I have posted photos in my image gallery if anyone is interested in the Gotham.

They are in the digital theater section right now.

Mjorgensen

You need to allow sharing of your image gallery in the user control panel, as of now it is invisible.

I don't know why there are people veiwing them now, what do I need to change?

I don't know why there are people veiwing them now, what do I need to change?

Thanks for sharing the photos. Very, very nice. You definitely need another Gotham to balance everything out!! :)

Where do I click to see the pictures???

Click On Theater Gallery at the very top of AVS page > Then on the Digital Projector Theaters Category. Just find the photos under Mjorgensen,

Or this link should take you there.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php/cat/501

Ah, Thanks!

Ah, Thanks!

Quite welcome. It took me a while to find it on Friday. You are not alone with the initial mystery.

I'm curious to know how well the Gotham will perform compared to 2 F113. JL informed me today that part of our opening order (the Gotham) is ready to ship.
We had a couple of customers lined up to listen/purchase one way back when, but there seems to be so little hype due to the delays.
Maybe there will be some great reviews soon once they start to circulate. Oh well, at least we will own it at the original cost (before the cost increase).

The dealer that I bought the Gotham from has the F113s also and when we compared the 2 to 1 there was a very distinct performance gain from the Gotham in my room anyways. I thought coming from the 3 Servo 15's that this would not be the case either till we demoed them back to back and there is a reason I bought the Gotham, other than the shear awesome looks of it! ;-) I would guess you would need 5 or more F113s to match the Gotham. Maybe not but that is what I came away with in my limited time with the two.

I would guess you would need 5 or more F113s to match the Gotham. Maybe not but that is what I came away with in my limited time with the two.

WOW! 5 F113? If that proves to be the case, then the Gotham will more than live up to its billing!

Can I ask a question to you guys?
When I was younger 10-15 years ago I was big into car stereo.
I owned several sizes and models of JL subs and only JL subs as they were the best by far - imo.
Now the question...Why are they sooo expensive in HT?

Can I ask a question to you guys?
When I was younger 10-15 years ago I was big into car stereo.
I owned several sizes and models of JL subs and only JL subs as they were the best by far - imo.
Now the question...Why are they sooo expensive in HT?

The Gotham aside, the JL Fathom subwoofers are really not that expensive if you are comparing them to car audio.
I also was really into car audio for a long time (and still am to an extent) including competing at a very high national level for a few years. Nice car audio subwoofer systems can be Very costly. A JL 13W7, JL1000/1 and a custom enclosure including all of the cabling and power delivery required can easily cost as much or more than a Fathom subwoofer.
If JL made a home subwoofer out of the W3 or W1, etc, it would be much cheaper compared to the Fathom. You would not get the elite level performance though.

Some quotes from Mr. Smith of JL on the comparison of Gotham and Fathom.

"The Gotham has an extra dimension of performance that probably can't be easily quantified in a spec, but is definitely noticeable when compared to stacked twin f113's. It sounds more solid and defined... not a huge difference, but definitely noticeable."

"Pradeep, the Gotham is similar in performance to what you could expect from a pair of f113's stacked one on top of the other. The Gotham's drivers are a bit different (as is the net box volume per driver) and there is a little bit less power (3800W vs 5000 on the twin f113's), but it all works out about the same in terms of response and SPL.

Feature-wise, the Gotham and the Fathoms are identical. So, in essence Nethomas is correct that the premium for the Gotham is mostly for its cosmetic effect. Given the choice, I would go with multiple Fathoms and distribute them to create a large zone of smooth bass response. We used six f112's at CEDIA this year all along the front wall of the room spread out laterally with a couple displaced vertically and the bass was the best bass we've had yet. For real-world theaters, a pair of smartly placed f113's is a pretty outstanding package."

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Post 143 in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8762824&highlight=gotham#post8762824

Very nice pics, thank you. The subwoofer looks like he wants another on the other side. Congrats on the subwoofer.

-Matt

MOZVZ,

Do you think that the room I have would really benefit from an additional Gotham? I would like to have another to balance out the room but wonder if the house and I could actually take an extra one.

MOZVZ,

Do you think that the room I have would really benefit from an additional Gotham? I would like to have another to balance out the room but wonder if the house and I could actually take an extra one.

As I see it with subwoofers, if you are happy with what you are experiencing, then why spend the money? This is contingent upon you may have some extra cash sitting around and are ready to contribute to the GDP. :) Some people have a credo you never have enough base and head room in the subwoofer arena. I don't know what camp you are in when it comes to this mindset. If I recall OB wrote that one of his friends added or was adding another Gotham to his 2 channel setup. You may want to ask him the same question about his friends experience.

Ideally, if somehow your dealer who you've purchased your current Gotham would be accommodating, perhaps you could bring one home on a weekend to experiment. I understand that sub is over 400 pounds, but considering your intentions are honest in nature, he may be willing to appease your curiosity.

Also, you may want to address your question to JL directly to solicit their opinion. However, it's easy for me to spend your money ya know so I'd say go for it!! :) Your room would appear to more balanced and symmetrical with that 2nd Gotham in the room. Really nice eye candy!!

I was just kidding around even though it does look a little lonely with just one.
Would you benefit from it? Yes.
Would you benefit more from upgrading your frontstage? Probably.

Tried to figure out if there was any possibility of putting in centered, but the screen is too low for that to have any possbility. I do not know of any way to balance it out the way things are setup right now.

There is a 5'x6'x3.5' opening behind the screen that houses a 65' HDTV and a bass trap. I could remove it and configure it for the Gotham or two but I would not be able to see my investment. As for improving my front stage what exactly would you suggest? I am in the process of aquiring 5 matching Usher 718's for replacement of the Def Techs. Also will be filling the racks up front with 6 mono blocks for the front 3 channels. At that point I can see using the second Gotham for balance.

I have spent about 25 hours with the Gotham now and really can't imagine better bass then I have now. Movies and music have a completly different "feel" then before and I thought it was great with the Servos so I am still blown away at the change.

that houses a 65' HDTV

HOLY CRAP!!!! that is a big TV!!!!

As far as balance... putting another gotham in there would make it visually balanced. That would look phenomenal and sound even better.
What was your opinion on the Def Techs (7002?) I am just trying to get a read for what your ear goes towards.

The speakers are actually the original 2002's all around and matching center. I have loved these for years obviously and they are in perfect shape. I have been able to audition lots of great speakers that were easily better sounding, but marginally considering the investment needed to upgrade.

I listen to the entire gamut of music and movies so my taste are diverse to say the least. The placement has always been the real tweak for the Def Techs and I love being able to change their location and enjoy a totally new experience when I feel the need for change. You really can't get that newness from direct radiating speakers I have heard. I am afraid that I will really miss the big sound stage I have by going to direct radiating speakers but I have seen great things about the Usher 718's and I feel I need to make the change.

I would really like suggestions about my path and what you all may think would work in my room. I love to listen at low volumes for details in classical and audiophile recordings to evaluate my system. On the other hand I also like to be able to crank DVD music from NIN and Pink Floyd when the need arises.

Thanks for your input

I personally have not heard the Usher, but all I have heard and read about them is they are an amazing value for what you get because of where they are made. Bottomline, I would wait until the 718s arrive until you decide on the second gotham.