Will there be ANY Direct-view CRTs at CES?

[Artwood]

Just wondered. Are any of the Chinese companies still making Direct-view CRTs?

[InYourEyes]

Just wondered. Are any of the Chinese companies still making Direct-view CRTs?
The only companies planning to announce new CRT tube models in CES are LG, Samsung, and Toshiba. That's all. Sony may release two new widescreen models quietly without announcing the models.

[King-Reyes]

Sony will release TWO widescreen models.

[lastxbr960]

Are these sub quality models contracted out to another company? 30", 34"?
Superfine Pitch?
Guess we all have to wait.

[Wickerman1972]

Who knows. What I'd like to see is a CRT that is truly 1920 X 1080 but I know that won't happen.

[RWetmore]

I'd like to see native 1080p, but I doubt it highly.

[Artwood]

I'd like to see 720p 38-inch widescreen super fine pitch.

[King-Reyes]

Sony will create a slim version of 36" 16:9 Super Fine Pitch 640x480p / 1280x720p/ 1920x1080i native

[lastxbr960]

Ha Ha , yea right King Reyes, although that is possible and would give much needed respect to the tv tech that made them famous, I'd buy for sure.
i think it's more likely we will see slightly upddated versions of the 970, and a 30"
What I would like is a progressive version of the 960, which could be called 1080P and should'nt be that hard to do, or a 960 version with true 480i-480p-720p-960i-960P (dvd doubling mode less artifacts smoother image than 720P1080iP upconversion) and 1080i-1080P (1440x1080=1.5 million+ pixels) and user selectable or set to auto this should be easy to do , like on crt pc monitors.
Unfortunately almost all of Sony tube plants are closed, LCD's are cheap to make and have high profit margin and lower shipping cost and take up less retail space, also such sets would look better than even there best LCD,s as I believe the 960 did and it was promptly discontinued.

[Megalith]

I'd like to see a Sony CRT that doesn't weight 900000000000 lbs.

[lastxbr960]

Sony will create a slim version of 36" 16:9 Super Fine Pitch 640x480p / 1280x720p/ 1920x1080i native
That would still SED's thunder in everything but size and price, and wouldnt cut into the lcd price ranges, hmmm. :rolleyes:

[williamtassone]

A slimmed down CRT wouldnt be able to do edge of screen convergence very well (something they dont do perfectly now) . Samsung's model case in point

[lcaillo]

I'd like to see a Sony CRT that doesn't weight 900000000000 lbs.

Careful what you widh for...you might get something made by Orion or Funai.

[InYourEyes]

Careful what you widh for...you might get something made by Orion or Funai.
That's highly unlikely.

[soloist3]

I would like to see a nice, quality built shadow mask based HD CRT, they typically have a bit better blacks (naturally because the mask is more light restrictive around each pixel) and weigh, on average, 20% lighter than aperture grille based CRT's

[King-Reyes]

That would still SED's thunder in everything but size and price, and wouldnt cut into the lcd price ranges, hmmm. :rolleyes:
SED isn't coming to CES................. Toshiba and Canon failed.

[infinitespecter]

SED isn't coming to CES................. Toshiba and Canon failed.

Uh, no. They got sued. Massive difference. Though, as one site put it, a technological failure would be a speed bump compared to the trouble a lawsuit can cause.

[reduno]

While we may all wish for a CRT with such great features as 1080p, I'm afraid the days are numbered. ROHS (Reduction Of Hazardous Substances) legislation is starting to work it's way in and will kill CRTs due to the lead content of the glass. The US is slower to adopt ROHS but it will happen. In Europe the legislation is far more advanced and you won't find any CRT sets on the Sony UK web site for example.

Enjoy your CRT while you can.

Red.

[biker19]

ROHS is being adopted in places like CA - the redesign of a PC board inside of a CRT TV would be expensive enough to kill the TV redesign. Things are so global that the US will get ROHS equipment by default.

[justsc]

I would like to see a nice, quality built shadow mask based HD CRT, they typically have a bit better blacks (naturally because the mask is more light restrictive around each pixel) and weigh, on average, 20% lighter than aperture grille based CRT's
This is just what Samsung was putting out about 4 years ago and earlier. Their sets included very tight dot pitch as well. I'm still loving my TXN series set, what an incredible picture. It's actually an ED monitor, native at 480p and I will keep it as long as it works. Then I'll repair it to the component level until there's no more available.

[InYourEyes]

Unfortunately, no company has announced any new CRT models. Does that mean they are not making them anymore?

[ptran]

I would like to see a nice, quality built shadow mask based HD CRT, they typically have a bit better blacks (naturally because the mask is more light restrictive around each pixel) and weigh, on average, 20% lighter than aperture grille based CRT's

I don't understand your claim about shadow masks being "light restrictive" and giving better blacks. Do you mean with respect to back-scattered light? I don't see that as a problem if the aperture grille wires and inside of the tube are painted matte black. Nor do I see how a shadow mask alleviates this problem since the shadow mask presents a much larger surface area for the phosphorescent light to reflect off of.

Shadow masks in my understanding are inferior to aperture grill in every way, except for allowing the tube to be vertically curved and thus the front glass to be thinnger and lighter. But I wouldn't call a curved screen an advantage.

[lastxbr960]

Unfortunately, no company has announced any new CRT models. Does that mean they are not making them anymore?

Oh no, the rumour was Sony would have 2 new or renamed CRT's.
I was hoping for a Super fine pitch model at $999-$1299, Sony would clean up in the one area they are superior to everyone else.
CRT Direct-View Tubes.
Oh Well It is a sad day indeed. :( :mad: :( :mad:
I hope my current XBR960 last along as my older one 17= years :) :D
My friend the superior PQ quality crt, is just about gone for good,, it was/is fun. :)

[lastxbr960]

I would like to see a nice, quality built shadow mask based HD CRT, they typically have a bit better blacks (naturally because the mask is more light restrictive around each pixel) and weigh, on average, 20% lighter than aperture grille based CRT's
I think you are mistaken. :confused:

[Oliver Deplace]

Shadow mask tubes, typically, have a tighter pitch than aperture grill tubes.
Much like a super fine pitch AG tube is darker than a regular AG tube.
Also, the shadow mask prevents some electrons from ever striking the phosphors and that further reduces light output. You can increase the drive, but at the risk of overheating the mask.

[lastxbr960]

Shadow mask tubes, typically, have a tighter pitch than aperture grill tubes.
Less light gets through, much like a super fine pitch AG tube is darker than a regular AG tube.
About the better blacks part, can you provide a link, I though Trinitron Aparture grill set up had the best blacks, but if I am wrong can you point me to where you got your info. :confused:

[rubenmorenojr1]

TX-T3093WH: 30-inch, $699
TX-T2793: 27-inch, $549

New CRT!!

[rubenmorenojr1]

Just surf the news on google with ces crt and you will find it there somewhere. all of them are 16 inches deep!! Why even go LCD anymore?

[ptran]

Shadow mask tubes, typically, have a tighter pitch than aperture grill tubes.
Less light gets through, much like a super fine pitch AG tube is darker than a regular AG tube.

I think I understand why people think this.

The light restrictiveness of a shadow mask has no bearing on the black level of a CRT when it's sitting in your living room since the shadow mask is behind the phosphor coating. However, in manufacturing, the higher light-restrictiveness of a shadow mask results in larger black gaps between the phosphor deposits than with aperture grille. This is because the phosphors are etched/deposited by shining light through the shadow mask/aperture grille.

The black level of a direct-view CRT is limited by the phosphor coating reflecting ambient light back to the viewer (ignoring glass glare), so the more black gaps between the phosphors, the deeper the black. But more gaps also means lower phosphor density, and hence a less bright CRT.

Phat

[soloist3]

Thanks, you put that very well, that is sort of what I meant by saying, in a very crude way, more light restrictive. It just seemed to me that every shadow mask CRT I have ever seen has generally had what appeared to be darker blacks when there was a lot bright and dark material on screen.

Perhaps the natural gamma of Sony CRT's is more logarithmic as well, I always find that when I am watching my Sony CRT's I am constantly adjusting the brightness and contrast to get the colors to look as dark and "rich" as my shadow mask CRT's. I mean the Sony does look good in its own way, it is very bright (actually too bright) and does have excellent blacks but for some reason I find that I am just a little bit more content with shadow mask based CRT's.

[irasiegel]

TX-T3093WH: 30-inch, $699
TX-T2793: 27-inch, $549

New CRT!!


Engadget reports that the "92" (as opposed to "93") version will have bottom-mounted speakers!!!

As the happy owner of a Samsung TX-P3271H (a 23" deep HDTV with a 4:3 aspect ratio and side-mounted speakers), who can't fit it into my living room's entertainment cabinet, Samsung's hanging in there with CRT is so refreshing.

I hope Samsung revisits the 32" 4:3 HDTV and makes a Slimfit, bottom-mounted speakers version. If Samsung has solved the Slimfit's geometry problems, I'm ready for one more 32" TV.

[InYourEyes]

I hope my current XBR960 last along as my older one 17= years :) :D
It won't. New TVs don't last as long as old ones. The maximum number of years your XBR960 can go is 8-10 years. Expect to see one power supply repair done. I saw the inside before, and to me, it is kind of cheaply made.

[Wickerman1972]

TX-T3093WH: 30-inch, $699
TX-T2793: 27-inch, $549

New CRT!!

Bah! More SlimFit crap. Almost definately the geometry will be just as horrible as past models.

[lastxbr960]

It won't. New TVs don't last as long as old ones. The maximum number of years your XBR960 can go is 8-10 years. Expect to see one power supply repair done. I saw the inside before, and to me, it is kind of cheaply made.
Thanks , thats so heartening to hear. :rolleyes: :) :) :D :D
Cheaply made as compared to what?? :confused:

[Oliver Deplace]

About the better blacks part, can you provide a link, I though Trinitron Aparture grill set up had the best blacks, but if I am wrong can you point me to where you got your info. :confused:
I clicked the wrong button and was too lazy to resubmit. But, anyway, it wasn't my intention to quote you in my previous post. Plus, I used some poor wording.
I'll edit.

Your TV is well-built. No reason to think it's gonna die tomorrow. ;)

[lastxbr960]

So which of the shawdowmask
34" HDTV's that "were" available had better blacks than the SFP Sony XBR960?
I may pick up a used one.

[Oliver Deplace]

So which of the shawdowmask
34" HDTV's that "were" available had better blacks than the SFP Sony XBR960?
I may pick up a used one.

Beats me.
Black level isn't everything.
Good luck with your search.
Please post your results.

[gus738]

these new slim fit models are going to be better :P i have the samsung txs2783 and its great out of the box no calibration done and it looks amazing one of the best tvs ,..... i hope the new 93 models will be avabile on costco as i would buy for 2 or more :P

[soloist3]

The black level is difference is subtle but that combined with about a 20% reduction in weight makes, for me, shadow mask tubes a bit more appealing. Also, like I said it seems like with Sony's the brightness control does not do exactly the same thing as what I see on most shadow mask CRT's, I swear on the Panasonic I was looking at the brightness almost acted like a gamma control it made the colors sooo rich the further you lowered the brightness. I mean, I know that brightness will always do this to a moderate degree but after trying to adjust many Trinitrons I found the brightness control did not seem to get the colors as "rich" as the shadow mask sets. I have to give a little bit of credit to Sony as the KV-34HS420 I had was a very good CRT it had color that was closer to the shadow mask CRT's but still not quite as good as the Panasonic 34 I saw.

By the way, I realize that this is not a commonly opinion held by most CRT fans. I do not want to criticize people who own Sony's, if that is what you think looks the best then by all means enjoy it! I just found that I prefer the look of shadow mask CRT's (well, and the weight reduction is a nice bonus). By the way all the Panasonic 34's were good (of course the earlier models lack HDMI/DVI, though for me I could not care less about HDMI/DVI on a CRT anyway), the Toshiba's were good too, all but the 34HF(X)85's, and they too lack HDMI/DVI on the earlier models.

[soloist3]

By the way, I just read about the 93 series Samsung's, that is so cool that Samsung is still working on HD CRT technology; I remember reading about the nano-pigment technology a few months ago it seems that it is now in the 93 series. Although I found the 83 series to have acceptable geometry I sure hope they improved it over the 83 series. By the way, seeing that we now have these slim fit HD CRT's it always makes me wonder why anybody would buy a 26-32in. LCD, maybe it is just me but I can't stand LCD, even when it looks pretty good it has a certain unnatural quality to it and of course the black levels are still pretty awful. Other than weight, which I do not see as a big factor in the 27-30" CRT size category the overall footprint is not that much different from an LCD but the picture quality is far greater on these CRT's. Sorry for the mini-rant, it just surprises me that's all. I guess it maybe has a bit to do with marketing, every company is probably concerned with promoting CRT as still having the best picture quality (not highest resolution of course but again in this size range I do not think it is worth it to have 1080p or even full 720p anyway) because they all produce TV's that use newer technology and that would be like saying that everything that is newer and higher resolution technically does not have the picture quality of the old, venerable CRT.

[rubenmorenojr1]

These new slimfits are going to be even more narrower at 16". Were the previous ones at 19"? Man I cant wait. My wife wants an LCD because it looks "neater" though.

[soloist3]

16 inches is shallow but I do not think it is any shallower than the last generation. By the way I thought that the 30" LG SuperSlim was already either 14.8 or 15.8 deep, I guess I could be wrong; either way the last generation was already slim and compact enough for me.

[julio388]

nano pigment technology is nothing new, just color pigment nano phosphors coated on the glass screen. every slimfit model television has this nano pigment. nothing new on the 93 series slimfit. looks like last year model no improvements in technology.

[rubenmorenojr1]

Hopefully the specs will be out soon. If the geometry issue is improved, then I'm getting one for sure. LCDs are nice and slim, but the really really nice ones are double the price for a 26" :(

[gus738]

By the way, I just read about the 93 series Samsung's, that is so cool that Samsung is still working on HD CRT technology; I remember reading about the nano-pigment technology a few months ago it seems that it is now in the 93 series. Although I found the 83 series to have acceptable geometry I sure hope they improved it over the 83 series. By the way, seeing that we now have these slim fit HD CRT's it always makes me wonder why anybody would buy a 26-32in. LCD, maybe it is just me but I can't stand LCD, even when it looks pretty good it has a certain unnatural quality to it and of course the black levels are still pretty awful. Other than weight, which I do not see as a big factor in the 27-30" CRT size category the overall footprint is not that much different from an LCD but the picture quality is far greater on these CRT's. Sorry for the mini-rant, it just surprises me that's all. I guess it maybe has a bit to do with marketing, every company is probably concerned with promoting CRT as still having the best picture quality (not highest resolution of course but again in this size range I do not think it is worth it to have 1080p or even full 720p anyway) because they all produce TV's that use newer technology and that would be like saying that everything that is newer and higher resolution technically does not have the picture quality of the old, venerable CRT.
i have to agree crt produce the best quality vs a lcd thats why these new sets should be nationwide sales .....

These new slimfits are going to be even more narrower at 16". Were the previous ones at 19"? Man I cant wait. My wife wants an LCD because it looks "neater" though well what you perfer a ugly tv that you dont watch the cabinets or that nice cabinet finished lcd that always has motion blurr very low blacks and terrible viewing angles??? IMO anyone buying a lcd these durring this half year woud make mistake ( unless its from costco) new sets are goign to be better

Now these new 93 series are basicly inproved (fixes you might say?) version with new bells and wissle

[soloist3]

I knew the nano-pigment tech was not really new I just did not think it was used in the 80's series (I guess I never really read that much about the features on the 80 series). Still good news that we will have some CRT's to choose from in 2007.

[julio388]

consumer reports still ranks sony crt the best on the market. Knowing what i read sony will release two new widescreen models. your best bet will be sony. slimfit sucks, geometry , tohsiba quality picture sucks. no real other choices. stick with sony. for videogames and occassional widescreen movies great bet.

[gus738]

consumer reports still ranks sony crt the best on the market. Knowing what i read sony will release two new widescreen models. your best bet will be sony. slimfit sucks, geometry , tohsiba quality picture sucks. no real other choices. stick with sony. for videogames and occassional widescreen movies great bet. and your based assumption of geomtry issues are? i own a slimfit and i havnt had any isssues and i didnt even need to calibrate it , right out of the box it looks amazing and its not even a hd set !..... dont judge slimfit unless you have one

[julio388]

sed won't come soon yet, have you been catching up on your reading. slimfit sucks, every year consumer reports rates the slimfit picture quality as horrible, sucks. sed price range out of the stratesphere.

[gus738]

sed won't come soon yet, have you been catching up on your reading. slimfit sucks, every year consumer reports rates the slimfit picture quality as horrible, sucks. sed price range out of the stratesphere.

again dont assume slimfit sucks based on reviews , im giving you a review right now that it doesnt suck and yet are you taking my word for it ??? :rolleyes: :p no im not a big company like cnet or someting then thats why u dont take me for my credit , seriously dude slimfits are amazing oh and if you have been reading then you know that sed is back on track and cannon is going to (soposely) buy out toshiba name just so taht the greedy nano lays off their backs then later toshiba can simply buy their tv and rebadge it .......

i seriously recommend everyone atlest to see a slimfit tv even if you arent going to buy one , but i do warn you the feed cc or best buy does SUCKS as you need DTV (digital atsc tuner)to be connected to an actuall tv channel then you get your *WOW* mouth :D heck i hate to say it but my non hd (27'' slimfit) looks better then my 1080I (38'') tv (maybe its washed out due to the time its seviced ) but yeah u get an ideal

[FORMULA11]

I have the LG 30FS4D its a great tv and have no geometry issues

[julio388]

you need to check your vision for astigmatism. like i said don't bother numerous accounts and reviews and returns can't be wrong.

[infinitespecter]

So was this it? No more big brand CRTs, save for three from Samsung?

[gus738]

you need to check your vision for astigmatism. like i said don't bother numerous accounts and reviews and returns can't be wrong.

my vision???? lol c'mon :D