http://www.vgcharts.org/

Is VG Charts trustworthy?

Is VG Charts trustworthy?

From what I've read, its more trustworthy (and accurate) than MOST of the other tracking sites on the web. Apparently, Nexgenwars can fluctuate by 300,000 or more units in a single day... ;-(

I've heard it is based on NPD figures (which are a bit incomplete themselves....doesn't include some big retailers). However it does seem a little slighted towards the Japanese manufactures.

It will very interesting to see how things shake out once the December figures come in. Regardless Nintendo and Microsoft are sure to have fantastic numbers for December. I'm not sure about Sony though....it really depends on how many units they were able to get to retailers. Seems like they are still having a really tough time getting PS3s made.

Seems like they are still having a really tough time getting PS3s made.

Don't know about that. I was just in Walmart yesterday and saw a PS3 just sitting there with MANY people walking by it, giving it a look, but not even a second. Albeit it was the 20gig version which seems to be the less coveted (although I feel the better value).

Anyway, I thought Xbox360 had surpassed the 9mil mark by now?

I've heard it is based on NPD figures (which are a bit incomplete themselves....doesn't include some big retailers). However it does seem a little slighted towards the Japanese manufactures.

It will very interesting to see how things shake out once the December figures come in. Regardless Nintendo and Microsoft are sure to have fantastic numbers for December. I'm not sure about Sony though....it really depends on how many units they were able to get to retailers. Seems like they are still having a really tough time getting PS3s made.

The PS3 isn't doing too bad on the supply side anymore. The problem there is that they're not guarantee to sell once shipped, unlike the Wii. There are plenty of reports online of Gamestop/Best Buy/Walmarts that are fully sold out of Wiis but have a good 6-9 PS3s just sitting on the shelf. The trend seems to be this is true for most smaller cities provided they aren't largely known as a college town.

Honestly, the PS3 numbers for December won't look great unless they're only reporting "shipped" not "sold" units. The big PS3 win was the units that sold out in November to be turned for a profit on Ebay. Since the EBay market for PS3 crashed (PS3's sell there for MSRP or lower) with the Wii market replacing it, things have changed.

Of course, this doesn't say anything about the future success/failure of the PS3 though. I imagine Sony didn't really expect to sell many boxes this year either, despite what the marketing/media folks say. The system simply has a serious lack of games at the moment, and some of the PS2's best titles just came out within the past 8 months. The Wii is completely different than previous consoles, and therefore sells based on that factor. The PS3 is your usual incremental improvement that will sell once there are games worth having. Sony still has the Final Fantasy 13 exclusive thing going on, which pretty much guarantees them at least 4 million or so PS3 purchases sometime in the next 2 years.

Anyway, I thought Xbox360 had surpassed the 9mil mark by now?

Microsoft's own number was right at 9 million at the end of November but recently one media outlet (gaming mag) said their numbers might be a bit overstated. I guess the ole shipped vs. sold argument perhaps.

I am an admitted PC and 360 gaming 'nut' (the Wii has brought me back to my nintendo roots) so yes, I am probably biased towards Microsoft (slightly).

From all the press releases/articles/stats I've read on the 'net my guess is that MS will sell about 750K units in December and be about .75 to .5 million sort of their 10 million shipped number by the end of '06.

And of course the Wiii will sell every single unit available I'm sure.

Sony has a LOT of momentum and goodwill from the PS1 and PS2. But I'm certain that at BEST they'll only be able to match the sales of Wii and 360 over a 4 year span (they'll trail for 2-3 years).

If they do what I THINK they are about to do with the PSP2, they will cannibalize the PSP market by tying it into PS3 ownership...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/28/psp2-to-sport-60gb-samsung-hard-drive/

Sony has a LOT of momentum and goodwill from the PS1 and PS2. But I'm certain that at BEST they'll only be able to match the sales of Wii and 360 over a 4 year span (they'll trail for 2-3 years).

I agree that Sony does have built up goodwill due to the success of the PS1 & PS2. However, I also believe Sony blew through a good portion of the aforementioned goodwill when they announced their current price structure. I would be willing to bet that a number of those PS1 & PS2 owners may think twice about purchasing a PS3 at its current price points. I know a number of friends who are content to keep their PS2s until Sony announces a price cut on the PS3. I am willing to bet that a number of people probably share that same mentality.

I know a number of friends who are content to keep their PS2s until Sony announces a price cut on the PS3. I am willing to bet that a number of people probably share that same mentality.
What I'm wondering is what price ARE people willing to pay for the PS3? Now the cheap model is $500, and even a $100 price cut would still make it $400. Comparable to a premium 360, sure, but by then I'm sure the premium 360 will be $300. The PS3 is going to be a tough sell for a long while.

PS3 sweet spot is $299 with Xbox360 at $199, Wii at $129. But this pricing is 3-4 years off... At just about this time HD DVD and Blueray should be firmly in the public mind. The Xbox HD DVD will probably be built-in to the 360 for an additional $100.

But funny enough, I DON'T THINK SONY WILL EVER MAKE MONEY FROM SALES OF PS3 HARDWARE. Or at least, not make money until 5+ years when the PS3 hardware is obsolete, and new consoles are coming to market.

Microsoft will continue price pressure and probably try to break even on hardware. Nintendo will ALWAYS PROFIT from every unit sold.

I know Sony plans to use PS3 technology in MANY of their consumer electronics, so that will help to drive component costs down. But if they really want to win this console war they'll need 25-50% exclusive titles and absurdly high levels of console subsidization (read: near parity with Xbox pricing).

What I'm wondering is what price ARE people willing to pay for the PS3? Now the cheap model is $500, and even a $100 price cut would still make it $400. Comparable to a premium 360, sure, but by then I'm sure the premium 360 will be $300. The PS3 is going to be a tough sell for a long while.


Well the PS2 sold most of it's consoles after it dipped to $199.I'm not sure if the PS3 needs to drop that low(really by the time PS3 is likely that price,PS4 will be out). If Blueray has established itself as a mainstay in the video market in the next 2 years,and Sony has some good exclusives,then maybe $299 will be the sweet spot if J6P consider it a good value(Next gen Hi Def player and game player).Of course by that time,IF Blueray is standard,the price of standalones will have dropped alot,which takes away from the PS3's current position as an 'inexpensive' BR player.They will have to rely solely on the strength of their games at that point.Which is why every exclusive lost is a MAJOR deal.

But Sony is not in a good position to drop price soon.They're already losing a few hundred on each machine,and need to sell as many as they can at the current prices to drive component costs down,thus making it easier for them to drop the price. PS3's could be sitting on the shelves 6 months from now(let's also keep in mind that in 6 months,we'll likely be in the typical summer game drought for ALL consoles),because the crowd buying them up now are Sony fans/early adaptors/BR folks.That crowd is good for a few million at current MSRP.

But the Wii,if it produces some compelling software,will continue to sell as the ultimate 'family' console(really we could see a situation where a night of family gaming replaces a night of movie viewing as the preferred form of family fun).And the 360,with an increasing userbase in the tens of millions next year,they will be able to drop price and continue their position as the leader in online gaming.Really,I'm not spelling doom and gloom for PS3 and I want them to succeed(as a gamer I would never wish for the death of a gaming console) but Sony is going to have an uphill battle for the next year at least.

...If Blueray has established itself as a mainstay in the video market in the next 2 years,and Sony has some good exclusives,then maybe $299 will be the sweet spot if J6P consider it a good value(Next gen Hi Def player and game player).Of course by that time,IF Blueray is standard,the price of standalones will have dropped alot,which takes away from the PS3's current position as an 'inexpensive' BR player.They will have to rely solely on the strength of their games at that point.Which is why every exclusive lost is a MAJOR deal...

Excellent point.

Look at the DVD functionality of the PS2 - when it launched, it was a nice bonus. My standalone Sony DVD player was $249, my friend's PS2 was $299. By the time DVD became completely mainstream, I was buying family members $40 progressive scan capable players that are still going strong today.

You'll see the same thing with Blu-Ray - if/when the technology goes mainstream, the prices of standalones will be so cheap that no one will care that the PS3 plays them.

I'm a fan of the blu-ray format in general, but I don't believe it will have anywhere close to the success of DVD and will likely be relegated to LD-like status, keeping hardware costs relatively high (in the hundreds of dollars rather than <$100). Also, if hybrid BD/HD-DVD players become the defacto standard in HD content (which I think will happen) the BD only feature of PS3 will be completely worthless.

I won't even touch the PS3 until the the 60 gig price drops down to at least $400. Especially seeing how they are losing all of their exclusives, and the Blue-Ray feature does not attract me at all seeing how as I could spend $200 for a HD-DVD add-on for my 360.

Even when Metal Gear drops, I find it seriously hard to believe that people will be willing to spend at least $500 on a gaming console.

I think PS3's are now sitting around because people are not expecting to see them and gave up. Plus most people have now spent their Christmas dollars at this point.

I think PS3's are now sitting around because people are not expecting to see them and gave up. Plus most people have now spent their Christmas dollars at this point.
Then why aren't there any Wiis sitting around on shelves? I saw a lot of PS3s on shelves even before Christmas.

Then why aren't there any Wiis sitting around on shelves? I saw a lot of PS3s on shelves even before Christmas.

Ask the vast majority of people trying to get one in the US before Xmas and most were not able to get one in most stores. Look at the PS3 purchase thread prior to xmas on AVS and most were not able to find any.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is impossible for you to have seen them, but your comment almost seems as if you are saying it just to say it, like me saying I saw elephants on my roof the other day.

Interesting how you live in LA but many that live in LA, orange county, and surrounding areas hadn't been able to get one before Xmas.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is impossible for you to have seen them, but your comment almost seems as if you are saying it just to say it, like me saying I saw elephants on my roof the other day.
It's very hard not to take you wrong on that as it sure sounds like you're questioning my sincerity the way you put it. And that's fine, you don't know me so I'll just leave that be.

Interesting how you live in LA but many that live in LA, orange county, and surrounding areas hadn't been able to get one before Xmas.
Well I saw it in Best Buy one day, Wal Mart the next, and at a toy shop in the Koreatown Galleria just a few short days before Christmas. All three times it was available for purchase (I inquired out of curiosity). I don't really care if you believe me, because it's the truth.

I heard on IGN that the PS3s on ebay had dropped down to MSRP before Christmas. This would indicate a lower demand or a higher supply, and either of those should have yielded more units in the store (and not just on ebay), and from my observations it did.

Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot that I ran into a guy returning an opened PS3 at the Best Buy in West LA because he didn't like it, about a week before Christmas. Just one guy, but the point is that I could've bought one at that time as well, so I had 4 chances to buy one, and I wasn't even looking.

I think in the end folks who dont want a PS3 see it everywhere and folks who are desperate to get one cant find one because they are trying to hard LOL...I know last week I seen at least one PS3 at my best buy, circuit city, target, walmart those are the main stores I hit on a weekly basis. Again the folks who are desperate for and cant find one dont really want I bet its the hunt thats fun, but after you find one you wont care that you find another one its happened to me 2 weeks before christmas the hunt feeling was gone. I dont seewhy either folks wont buy off a fellow AVS member who is reputable at retail plus paypal fees and shipping or whatever. JOEKUN I believe you bro that you seen PS3s all over place so many folks on this board act like the PS3 is gold and its hard to find.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is impossible for you to have seen them, but your comment almost seems as if you are saying it just to say it, like me saying I saw elephants on my roof the other day.

Interesting how you live in LA but many that live in LA, orange county, and surrounding areas hadn't been able to get one before Xmas.
To further back up my point of view here is a quote from an article appearing on IGN today

Over the holidays, IGN repeatedly found PS3s available at retailers while no Wiis were in sight. The price of a PS3 on eBay has also dropped to around its MSRP, while the Wii is still selling for over twice its retail price.
They have an office just down the street from me in Culver city.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/752/752824p1.html

Sales numbers for 1 Nov to 25 December

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=21958


But Nintendo Wii close behind with 1.8m units sold

Market analysts IDC have suggested that the Xbox 360 was the best-selling console in the US over Christmas - with the Nintendo Wii trailing by just 200,000 units.

According to the firm's preliminary estimates, as reported by CNBC, around 2 million Xbox 360 units were sold in North America from November up until December 25.

The figure for Nintendo Wii stood at 1.8 million units - despite the fact the console only launched in North America on November 19, and the first batch of stock sold out within hours.

Stock shortages were an even bigger problem for Sony. An estimated 750,000 PlayStation 3 units were sold during the same period