Blackout Cloth VS. Photography Backdrop Paper [Text View]

Steve Scherrer

12-29-06, 12:34 PM

Usually something lighter grey works well for deepening blacks, although I've not tried it to any real extent, just some (too small) samples . Blue beam on a wall is the best way, yup. :)

In the Q&A section of that projector central entry, they were pretty opposed to using light grays to deepen blacks. They claimed it would create a "ridiculously dull image".

By the way, anyone know how heavy this stuff it? Does it rip easily? I might be interested in trying to create a DIY retractable screen with this... Just worried about it ripping, creasing, folding, etc. Perhaps I'll swing by a photo supply store soon and get some samples. It's got to be pretty cheap if you can get 36 ft of the 53inch stuff for ~$42.

Glimmerman911

12-29-06, 12:54 PM

I haven't opened it up yet, tonight probably. I got 36ft of the 107" for $75 Canadian.

I will post again after I have opened it up.

wbassett

12-29-06, 01:52 PM

In the Q&A section of that projector central entry, they were pretty opposed to using light grays to deepen blacks. They claimed it would create a "ridiculously dull image".

I've been playing around with grays lately and I wonder if they said that because they actually tested it and saw that first hand or are just assuming... I have also seen the mods over there recommend bedsheets and that really blew my mind when I saw that post.

As far as being paper, I would imagine it's pretty flat with very little to no surface sheen, so I would say gain wise it will definitely be less than one and without any type of coating it could make for a duller looking image, but I would like to test it first. Now you guys have me adding something else to my list of things to buy!! Damn you all ;)

If nothing else this would make a very nice and quick disposable test screen. My test screen was made with liner paper, which is used to cover rough plaster walls, cinderblocks, or paneling before painting or putting wall paper up. I don't know if this stuff is the same thickness, but I got the liner paper by the roll of 26" wide by approximately 30' for around $8. The liner paper curls pretty bad so I would check the photo paper out (or ask someone that bought some) if it lays flat or curls. The liner paper was fairly think but still curled like an SOB until it had adhesive brushed on, and then it layed flat.

This looks really interesting because of the width. The neutral gray may be a little too dark for most people. If it is the same as the Kodak neutral gray (it is 18% reflectance too) it is a middle gray in shade.

Here are a few things to note about photo backdrop paper:

"Many photographers have gray backdrop paper rolls or sheets in their studios and use them for gray references. In addition to backdrop papers, other available paper products include matboards, construction paper, art papers, mounting boards, etc. This can be a poor choice since many papers use dyes similar to fabric dyes and are, therefore, subject to the same problems as fabrics. Measurements of the spectral uniformity show a wide variance. Some gray paperss are almost flat spectrally, others extremely irregular. At this moment, use of gray papers can only be recommended on a case-by-case basis depending on spectral measurement of the paper."

The above was an excerpt from Robin Meyers Imaging about Gray Card Selection (http://www.rmimaging.com/information/gray_card.pdf). This article is mainly about backdrop paper as used for a gray reference for photography. Since we are also concerned about the neutrality of screen colors, especially grays (particularly the middle to darker grays) I think the article applies to us too as far as color balance.

Glimmerman911

12-29-06, 02:00 PM

My store didn't have it, but maybe there is a slightly glossy white paper in 53", that would be a higher gain?

My room is completely dark, do I need a gain higher than 1?

Jack Gilvey

12-29-06, 03:08 PM

In the Q&A section of that projector central entry, they were pretty opposed to using light grays to deepen blacks. They claimed it would create a "ridiculously dull image".
Maybe, but it seems cheap enough to find out just how "ridiculous" for yourself. :)

wbassett

12-29-06, 03:21 PM

Maybe, but it seems cheap enough to find out just how "ridiculous" for yourself. :)
I am definitely getting a roll. If nothing else it's a real cheap and easy test screen surface.

Glimmerman911 gloss is going to introduce a whole new set of issues. This is an interesting topic and area to explore.

eggsovereasy

12-29-06, 08:12 PM

I have the photo paper in my room now. It's the 53" white.

Looks great, I can find no apparent weakness and this is after 6 weeks of using it.

Here's a few shots.

Glimmerman911

12-29-06, 08:59 PM

Good looking screen. Eggs, can you describe the materials and construction of your screen for me? I am going to use my paper to build a screen this weekend.

Thanks!

eggsovereasy

12-29-06, 09:08 PM

The screen frame is essentially the same as the one suggested by PJC. It is 100" diag (49x87) and it is lined with black velvet. The borders are 3.5" wide.

I can honestly tell you that I wasn't expecting much when I bought it, and it was supposed to be a temporary solution until the final screen came in. But I have thrown everything at it and still can't find anything to complain about. It's definately going to stay up for awhile.

eggsovereasy

12-29-06, 11:11 PM

I have a bit of time, so I'd like to give everyone some specifics about the paper.

I bought mine from a camera supply store and they had the white and super-white in both widths. I chose to not go for the super-white because it looked like it had a 'cool' look to it, almost icy is the best way I can describe it. This seemed to be exactly what PJC described because, from what I recall, their sample was unable to reflect blue light very efficiently and so they had compensated by dialing up the blue on their test pj. But, samples will no doubt vary.

I brought it home and took off the outer plastic covering. At this point I had already made my screen, so it was a simple process to carefully roll out the paper and lay it across the back of my frame which was now lying flat on my floor. When I reached the end I used an exacto knife and trimmed it so that I had roughly two inches around the ends.

THe next step was to fasten the paper to the frame. According to the PJC article, they stapled the paper all around (roughly 9" apart) while trying to maintian even tension on the paper. I actually found this step to be a bit of a struggle, and not because of the stapling. The hard part was trying to keep consistent tension around the borders so that the final look was free of waves. THe first attempt didn't give me the results that I wanted and I started over. For my second try, I used ordinary thumbtacks instead of my staple gun. THe reason is that I felt that if I used something with a larger or wider surface to grip the paper in place that it would be easier to tension the paper without taking a chance on ripping the weak support that the staples provided.

About 20 minutes later the screen went up again. THis time around it gave more satisfying results, but still not what you would want to view on a consistent basis. There were still subtle waves across the surface. In addition, the edging around the inside part of the frame was more noticeable. The areas where the tacks had been placed were right up against the frame, while the areas without ever so slightly lifted away from the frame. Again, to me this was not a permanent solution so down it came again.

My third, and final, try worked out the best and it is what is on my wall now.

I knew that the answer had to be a way to tension the paper enough to not show waves, while being careful not to rip it (after all, it is still paper). WHat I came up with was to roll it out as I had done previously, but this time I cut it a few inches longer so that it would overshoot the outer edge of the frame by about an inch. I then cut a 53" piece of doorstop (or any long thin piece of wood that is about 1/4' by 1") and placed it along the first vertical frame end on top of the paper. Trying to staying even, I folded the paper over the piece of wood and wrapped it around once. When it was done I nailed it in place with small finishing nails. It was now tight and secure.

ON the other end, I did the same thing, but before I nailed it in place I made sure to give it a very good pull evenly along the wood piece. You will probably need someone to maintain this tension while you finish nailing the wood in place. The final step is to lay the doorstop across the length of the frame, about as close to the inside frame as possible.

When you are done, you should have very even tension with no waves and consistency around the edges. All together, the frame construction from start to finish should take about a couple hours. But, in the end you'll have a very satisfying image for a fraction of the cost. Very highly recommended.

eggsovereasy

12-29-06, 11:33 PM

I had put in a few hours earlier this week trying to see how large the viewing cone was. For my current setup, this is not an issue; more of a curiosity.

THe first picture was shot straight on; the second at an extreme angle. This wouldn't be a practical viewing angle by any means, but it shows you just how wide the cone is. In my light-controlled room, I saw hardly any drop-off whatsoever; it was marginal at best.

eggsovereasy

12-29-06, 11:42 PM

Another two screenshots to illustrate the same point.

Glimmerman911

12-29-06, 11:49 PM

Pics look good. Thanks for the tensioning idea, that is what I will do then.

Glimmerman911

12-30-06, 12:00 AM

Hopefully my superwhite works well too.

eggsovereasy

12-30-06, 12:10 AM

Rory, you should be fine with the super-white. Probably will give you better gain than the white while maintaining all the benefits of its color neutrality (what it's really designed for).

Let us know how it works out. Good luck.

Glimmerman911

12-30-06, 12:30 PM

Thanks, I will get some pics up. Might be a little while, a few things have come up that will delay the HT for a bit.

eggsovereasy

12-31-06, 09:22 AM

Here's a few more screenshots to show how well this screen accurately reflects colors. No adjustments were made to both my pj or the pictures.

eggsovereasy

12-31-06, 09:28 AM

A few more from film source. Notice the neutral bright white areas against the depth of the blacks.

wbassett

12-31-06, 10:50 AM

eggsovereasy can you see the back of the screen and tell if there is any light making it through the paper?

eggsovereasy

12-31-06, 11:22 AM

I'll check for you.....good point.

eggsovereasy

12-31-06, 11:30 AM

Yes. The paper is illuminated to the point that you can make out the image from behind. I do have a wall painted flat black behind the screen, and this seems to absorb most of the stray light from the screen.

Soransis

01-01-07, 12:14 AM

Does this stuff come in a grey color? I have ambient light issues and was looking at the FG wilsonart laminate, but if the white looks that good for that cheap I would think a grey color would have somewhat similar properties (yes I know they can be totally different as proven by a lot of threads already). Maybe someone could convince a local store to let them have a small sample to try out?

eggsovereasy can you see the back of the screen and tell if there is any light making it through the paper?

Would this be a bad thing, or might it actually be a good thing because of the "good" ambient light (like those TVs with ambient light on the sides)?

Glimmerman911

01-01-07, 01:10 PM

Yes there are a variety of grey's available.

Anyone willing to buy a 53" roll of light grey?

Steve Scherrer

01-01-07, 09:43 PM

Yes there are a variety of grey's available.

Anyone willing to buy a 53" roll of light grey?

I am considering getting some kind of 107" grey, but I don't know which one to get--there are many to choose from. Anyone have any suggestions? I could go with the light grey, but if others have a better suggestion, I am all ears. Thanks.

Soransis

01-02-07, 12:20 AM

I am considering getting some kind of 107" grey, but I don't know which one to get--there are many to choose from. Anyone have any suggestions? I could go with the light grey, but if others have a better suggestion, I am all ears. Thanks.

Is there a Fashion Grey? Just checking, maybe that light grey is close to the shade of FG. I've been in the laminate thread and I need a grey for my ambient light issues, and the white looks REALLY good in the pictures, so was hoping the grey looked similar but with some ambient light. I would try the light grey if they didn't specify a fashion grey color.

EDIT: Okay just looked at a few websites for the color of the paper. I would think either Pursuit Grey or Slate Grey would be a better choice I think they more closely represent the Fashion Grey Laminate that works so well with a topcoat and some ambient light.

wbassett

01-02-07, 07:32 AM

Is there a Fashion Grey? Just checking, maybe that light grey is close to the shade of FG. I've been in the laminate thread and I need a grey for my ambient light issues, and the white looks REALLY good in the pictures, so was hoping the grey looked similar but with some ambient light. I would try the light grey if they didn't specify a fashion grey color.

EDIT: Okay just looked at a few websites for the color of the paper. I would think either Pursuit Grey or Slate Grey would be a better choice I think they more closely represent the Fashion Grey Laminate that works so well with a topcoat and some ambient light.
I'm sure we can get some of the white and grays sampled and find their exact color. It's not like anyone buying a roll won't have any left ;)

One thing to keep in mind though and note is the same thing said in numerous threads... we can match colors but there is more going on than just that. It is of course a very good foundation and starting point. The paper could be a close match but look very different (still good though). The laminates are a matte finish with a surface sheen that adds gain and specularity to the image which will be the biggest difference in performance.

Also the fact that light passes through the paper and the laminates are completely opaque will have a slight difference in performance as well.

I'm not saying this is a bad option or anything like that, I'm actually very interested in this too for testing and some very quick disposable screens... I'm just saying keep a few things in mind.

Soransis

01-02-07, 07:56 AM

I'm not saying this is a bad option or anything like that, I'm actually very interested in this too for testing and some very quick disposable screens... I'm just saying keep a few things in mind.

Hmm very true, would be good for a quick disposable screen. I just realized that its paper (duh me) so it would be easy to tear, and not easy to clean. With a newborn in my new family I think laminate would be my best choice anyway. I think this stuff sounds very promising though, and maybe a great idea for a portable screen as well. It sure is cheap at the least, looking at the pics it seems a great bang for the buck screen.

wbassett

01-02-07, 09:47 AM

Hmm very true, would be good for a quick disposable screen. I just realized that its paper (duh me) so it would be easy to tear, and not easy to clean. With a newborn in my new family I think laminate would be my best choice anyway. I think this stuff sounds very promising though, and maybe a great idea for a portable screen as well. It sure is cheap at the least, looking at the pics it seems a great bang for the buck screen.
True, but the typical newborn won't be anywhere near the screen, unless there is a problem with flying diapers ;)

As far as ripping or cleaning, that really shouldn't be an issue except for in extreme situations or say the screen is being moved and gets damaged... but seeing that there is enough on a roll to make 4 and 1/2 screens I wouldn't worry about that, just cut another sheet and attach it and any problems are solved!

This is also interesting since a person can put up a white screen very quickly and be able to enjoy movies right away. Then as a person decides on different methods or wants to experiment with paints, they can paint the screen. If they don't like it, rip it down, tack up a new sheet and go with the next paint... I'd think that for the average person they will nail down an ideal screen before they run out of paper! Or they might like it fine as is, but I think we should at least work on overcoming the light bleed some to boost the efficiency. If you see light going through the screen, that's light that's not making it back to the viewer.

Something else interesting to try can be this--
eggsovereasy has his wall painted flat black behind it, I wonder what it would look like with UPW painted behind the paper. At the expense of this for a screen we should be able to do some interesting experiments.

A real quick side note: The size of this can make for a very fast screen. You could literally thumbtack it up and then make a border with the Velvet ribbon Clarence has shown, use Duve-pro, or Hockey tape and have a very fast and functional screen. We probably can improve on it, and there are some simple and advanced methods that will perform better but this is certainly very easy. I did check on the price of the 107" roll and shipping goes up almost exponentially from the 53" width. They quoted me around $140 for a roll that size with shipping included. Me personally, for that price I would just go with a laminate unless you need a screen that big. Don't forget the light bleed problem though, bigger screens = lower fL at the screen and if you have to use your zoom to fit the larger size the brightness drops even more.

I have added a 53" roll to my list of things I want to buy, but I doubt I'd get a 107" roll... although you could make 7 54x96 screens or 8 52x92 screens. Does anyone know if there would be any moire problem with using the 107" as the width instead of the height of the screen. I don't think this would be an issue with paper since cloth has fibers weaved together and paper is pressed pulp. It's probably not a problem at all but maybe someone can answer that for sure.

Steve Scherrer

01-02-07, 01:44 PM

Shipping from Calumet Photo for 107" paper is much cheaper than I have seen in other places. Here are the three grays they provide online at 107" (I can't vouch for the accuracy of the grays in this image)--but assuming these closely match what is portrayed, can anyone provide a recommendation? I would presume Smoke Gray is out--too dark. So I was between Platinum and Storm Gray.

Platinum:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/Platinum.jpg

Storm Gray:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/StormGray.jpg

Smoke Gray:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/SmokeGray.jpg

jcavner

01-03-07, 02:08 PM

I went by our local camera store today and they had rolls of white and superwhite in 53" for 40 bucks. They said the white and superwhite were essentially the same, had the same reflectivity, just packaged different. For 40 bucks, this screen idea is too cheap not to try. Earlier someone mentioned about having flat black behind their screen, would there be any benefit to using a different color? I had also planned on a flat black. If it's not too expensive, I'll be a guinea pig :) I'm looking at a 100" screen.

Glimmerman911

01-03-07, 02:27 PM

Yeah, the shipping charges are a rip off.

I just went to my local camera store, and bought a 107" roll of superwhite for $75 Canadian.

I haven't had time to build a frame yet. Or even to tack it up, but maybe tonight I can start.

Steve Scherrer

01-03-07, 05:54 PM

Clarence

01-03-07, 06:26 PM

Anyone have any thoughts on these grays?Print out (inkjet or color laser) a solid page of each color and tape it to your current screen.

That should be sufficient to help you realize how dark is too dark.

Also check out the color chart of various screens in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8575684&&#post8575684

It compares the RGB/grayscale levels of commercial screens to laminate colors. You should be able to compare where your 3 swatches fit in.

PaintShopPro color analyzer gives these color values for your swatches:
Platinum: R=204 G=209 B=205 (close to Behr Silverscreen paint)
Storm Gray: R=176 G=171 B=175 (between Neutral gray and Firehawk)
Smoke Gray: R=132 G=135 B=144 (darker than any of the other screens)

WilsonArt "FashionGray" is the typical gray choice for laminates... it falls right between your Platinum and Storm Gray.

Randy Mathis

01-04-07, 03:27 AM

eggsovereasy can you see the back of the screen and tell if there is any light making it through the paper?

Are you thinking of putting a mirror behind the paper?

wbassett

01-04-07, 09:01 AM

Are you thinking of putting a mirror behind the paper?
No

Steve Scherrer

01-04-07, 04:00 PM

I went ahead and ordered the 107" platinum. I'll post thoughts and pics when I get it in and set it up.

Glimmerman911

01-04-07, 04:15 PM

Sweet, thanks Steve.

Steve Scherrer

01-05-07, 05:24 PM

Got my photo background paper today (Platinum)--looking forward to getting some up and running tonight. HOpefully, I'll get some pictures posted soon.

Glimmerman911

01-05-07, 05:26 PM

go steve, go steve!

jcavner

01-05-07, 05:45 PM

I am wanting to see this too. I am going to pick up my roll of super-white this weekend. I wonder how many people on this forum are using photopaper screens. I'd be curious to find out.

Steve Scherrer

01-06-07, 05:00 PM

Well, I got the paper, opened it up, tacked a long sheet up over my existing screen, threw up some images, and I have to say that I am favorably impressed. The color of the Platinum paper matched very closely with the swatch posted above. Now, I should warn everyone right up front that I am red green colorblind (this doesn't mean I can't see red and green, but some shades are difficult to distinguish. I think it also means that I actually see red and green differently than everyone else, so I apologize up front--but perhaps it also means that I don't see some color flaws that others see...)

My projector is a Benq PB6100 SVGA with about 1000 hours on the bulb. It is uncalibrated with the material (and unfortunately, my AVIA disk is loaned out at the moment). I use it combined with a Panamorph 752 anamorphic lens.

Anyway, on to the shots.

This is the roll as it came (107" x 36ft)--that's one big tube!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020828.jpg

Here is the paper laid out and tacked over my existing screen, taken with my camera and flash. If you notice, I wasn't exactly too careful with this sheet, as there are some creases in the paper--this is one big drawback to this material, any crease will be permanent and apparent. But I believe it accurately represents the color of the paper. At first I thought the paper looked a little greenish--but I have no idea (see my red green color blind issue explained above! ;) )
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020831.jpg

Here are a couple of HD shots, randomly chosen from what was playing at that time. The first, obviously, is in no light conditions. The second has my overhead lights on in the room. There is a lot of light on the screen.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020842.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020845.jpg

These final shots are of Apollo13 and Harry Potter. The Apollo 13 shows a lot of white/dark contrast. I chose the Harry Potter scene because it is quite dark, so I wanted to see how the material would show the blacks. (My DVD player was also set on the wrong aspect ratio (not sure why...), so the image for Harry Potter is a little squished. But I realized it for Apollo 13 and fixed it)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020852.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020853.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1020851.jpg

Overall, I like the material a lot. Whites and blacks both seem to be pretty good. I actually think I like the image it shows better than my screen I have now (but I painted it with a DIY gray mixture, and I think it was a little too dark). Also, the paper is quite heavy, and while I was able to discern the image through the material from the back, it was a lot less than I anticipated.

I am anticipating having some problems incorporating this material as a DIY electric screen, because anytime the screen rolls up funny, it could potentially put creases into it. I also am not sure how to paint a border around it without introducing waves into the screen, since the black paint is likely to shrink the paper after painting. I'll update how it works out.

jcavner

01-06-07, 08:58 PM

looks good! I am pretty excited about the possibility of this material. My room is probably a month away from being done and I plan on doing my screen with superwhite paper.

Glimmerman911

01-08-07, 12:32 AM

Thanks for the update, good stuff.

I think for a DIY screen, I would use a wood frame wrapped in velvet that is flat on the back, and staple it to the back so it is flat. Then you would have a border and a flat screen.

AlienArchbishop

01-11-07, 03:36 PM

This idea looks pretty good, and when the paper gets old or stained by something you just go ahea and change it!

jcavner

01-11-07, 03:39 PM

This idea looks pretty good, and when the paper gets old or stained by something you just go ahea and change it!

exactly! would work really well if someone had a lot of little ones running around too. One roll of paper is equivalent to 3 100" screens i think.

eggsovereasy

01-11-07, 09:09 PM

I've been thinking about adding a layer behind the screen in order to get as much light back to the viewers instead of passing through the material. I'm probably going to have a look at what sort of materials I can find at Home Depot, something lightweight, but solid.

After I finish, I'm hoping to compare using some before/after shots of the same movie scene using the same settings. This should show whether there is any difference and how noticeable it is. My guess is that the same scenes should appear brighter.

Eggs.

Glimmerman911

01-11-07, 09:33 PM

What about some cheap MDF board or something behine it? Paint it black maybe?

eggsovereasy

01-12-07, 06:16 PM

MDF will work but may add too much weight to the overall screen frame. If I paint it, I'm worried that the paper may contract or bend as the paint dries.

Cole Helget

01-13-07, 10:09 PM

jcavner

01-13-07, 11:43 PM

i actually have both materials, super white photograph paper and blackout cloth, and i hate to brake it to you all, but i like my blackout cloth much better! it is easier to put up, looks nicer, and i notice slight advantages in the picture. blackout cloth for me was $18 for 3 yards, sure beats the $40 you are talking about to pay for paper! give it a try, i promise results. please to not ask for pictures though, i do not even own a camera

thanks for the input! i was hoping someone who would have both would give us an opinion. btw, the $40 for paper is the whole roll. you can make three 100 inch screens out of it. If I can find blackout cloth for the a similar cost as you, I may run both as well. Thanks again!

TeamSpeed

01-14-07, 09:45 AM

How about using tileboard as a backing? Light and white and cheap.

jcavner

01-14-07, 05:20 PM

How about using tileboard as a backing? Light and white and cheap.

There are a few threads on here about Do-able board, but unfortunately its a regional product.

TeamSpeed

01-14-07, 06:37 PM

There are a few threads on here about Do-able board, but unfortunately its a regional product.

I am not talking about using doable for the screen, but a cheap <$10 backing material for the photo paper, and it would be white reflective as well. I would think that if you had paper stretched across a frame, you would want something like foamboard or tileboard up against it on the backside to give it strength. Just a thought.

wbassett

01-14-07, 06:59 PM

Teamspeed keep one thing in mind, unless two pieces of a substrate are used it restricts the screen size to something that can be made on a 4x8 sheet... and the photo paper provides for much larger screen sizes.

One very easy method would be to just tack the paper to the wall and then mount a border frame around it. That is a very similar method that I used with liner paper and the way the border is mounted you can't tell they are two seperate components.

Some interesting experiments would be to paint the wall (or substrate) a bright white behind the paper, and then also try a dark color, even black.

craftech

01-17-07, 04:36 PM

Glimmerman911

03-06-07, 07:08 PM

I am assembling my screen finally tonight. We ended up renovating the entire basement, so the screen had to wait.

I plan on building a wood frame with angle brackets, wrapped in black velvet, then stapling the paper onto it.

amslfive

03-07-07, 10:36 PM

I have tried paper as a screen. I used "arctic white" and the paper turned out to be off-white / light grey. THe results are fine - i just taped the paper to the wall using masking tape. The set up works fine but looks like crap. I only paid $35 for the paper so its not a big loss for me. I am now looking for a proper screen that looks nice and fits with the decor of my newly finished basement.

Glimmerman911

03-08-07, 11:12 AM

Hopefully super white ends up looking better. If not I will buy blackout cloth, and also I found a wholesaler who will sell me actual screen material for $100 for a 100" screen.

I bought all the supplies last night, tonight is assembly. Once the frame is built and material can be mounted to it fairly easily.

Steve Scherrer

03-14-07, 10:26 AM

Just a quick update--while I am still interested in utilizing the gray photography paper in my home screen, I haven't actually put it up yet. But my church had a showing of "An Inconvenient Truth" last week, and I was "in charge of technology", so used the paper for the movie, and then a few days later, our priest did a powerpoint presentation utilizing the same material with his projector. It worked great!. We just duct-taped the material to the wall in our fellowship hall for the movie and presentation. That is the very nice thing about this material--it is really, really cheap, very portable, you don't worry about ruining it, and works great!

Even if people don't used it in their theaters, if they have travelling presentations, it works like a charm!

Glimmerman911

03-14-07, 11:50 AM

While purchasing my black velvet at the fabric store, I checked out BOC.

I ended up purchasing some, and installing that instead of the paper for now.

The BOC is working great for now, so my 107" roll of paper is just sitting in the garage for now until I decide it is worth testing.

eggsovereasy

03-24-07, 12:24 AM

Out of sheer curiosity, I decided to buy 'white' BOC at my local fabric store in order to do a direct A/B against my photo paper. I have been using photo paper in my own HT for about six months now and I can't find any fault with the PQ. I did, however, question its black performance in certain scenes and I wanted to see whether a BOC type material had any impact to colors, luminosity and black levels.
I bought about three yards at the store. When the saleslady folded the fabric at the checkout, I sort of grimaced because I thought I would bring it home and find it looking like a seemed checkerboard. Well, it wasn't that bad, but I did notice the folds when I unravelled it. It is definately there, but I'm sure that with proper tensioning this would help to stretch out the creases. On to the performance;
When I draped the BOC over the right half of my fixed frame screen, I immediately noticed that it wasn't as white (or bright) as the paper. Turning on the PJ, the OPPO splash screen was the first thing I saw, and I was quite surprised. The BOC side did have deeper blues and approximately the same whites. It looked as though the saturation of the blue was turned up a few notches while keeping the whites intact.
I then popped in The Incredibles and proceded to spend about and hour pausing scenes and evaluating the differences. As noted before, colors were visibly deeper and blacks were more black. I've attached a sample image here for reference. You'll notice that the right half of the mask is more black than the left, and this seemed to be the case for all of my shots. So the edge in black levels and color depth definately goes to the BOC. As far as color accuracy though, I still have to give the edge to the photo paper. I'm not sure if you can tell by the picture, but the facial tone on the BOC side is a bit muted or dull. I found that on certain colors this 'dinginess' wasn't present, but on others, specifically on warm shades, that it was slightly 'greyer' than on the paper.

Glimmerman911

03-27-07, 11:18 AM

Thanks eggs, that is great info.

I have BOC for now, but from your attached image the paper is giving a much better image for my tastes.

My next screen will definately have to utilize the paper sitting in my garage waiting for use.

konacj

03-30-07, 03:58 PM

My family has 9 children ranging in ages from 2 to 21. The screen that i built is quite large - 73"x130" (16:9 ratio) and I am afraid that if i put up the paper that it'll keep getting ripped and i'll have to keep replacing it. I bought a 1/16" mdf board from home depot and am going to stretch the paper around that and then staple it to the screen. I'll let you know what happens and how strong it is. If this doesnt work, does anyone have any other suggestions? I know blackout cloth is an option, but i can only find it in 53"-54" sizes, does anyone know where to get a larger size BOC?

polygonkilla

04-08-07, 08:32 PM

I use photography as my temporary screen and it looks great. I do trade shows
and I have access to alot of colors, I am goin to try some diff. colors to see how
they look.

Glimmerman911

04-09-07, 11:28 AM

Cool, let us know how it goes.

kaxka

10-03-07, 06:27 AM

something new about these screens

frorule

10-04-07, 10:55 AM

I'm betting this paper could also be considered acoustically transparent... how much sound can paper block? Not much I would think. I would love to hide some in-walls behind the screen for that ultra-clean look.

Perhaps the only issue might be waves in the screen produced by speaker moment. There has to be ways around this, such as using spray adhesive to attach the paper to peg-board which gives it rigidity and still allows good sound to pass through.

Thoughts?

polygonkilla

10-04-07, 07:16 PM

Well I dont know if I would use spray glue and the peg board - I dont think it would work. I basicly use the paper cause I get it for free, the way I have it set up is:
I cut the paper to about 82" wide then took a 1" chrome pipe cut that to 88" long and
put threw paper roll so it stuck out 3"s on each side. then I took 2 "L" brakets and screwed thm into cieling and wired the ends of the pipe to "L" brakets. So when I want
to use my PJ,I just roll down the paper by hand and when done for the night I just
stand on my small ottoman and roll it back up, bit up a pain but no big deal. I'm useing
it this way till I decide on a perm. screen.

klutch

10-10-07, 01:29 AM

Anyone willing to do a photo write up on building one of these using the paper?

Fabbas

11-04-07, 05:32 PM

Has anyone compared the photo paper or black out cloth with the Draper M1300 or similar fabric? The M1300 is light transmissive and is 1.3 gain. Sounds very similar.

kaxka

11-29-07, 01:43 PM

any photos?

kaxka

02-12-08, 10:39 AM

Audixium

02-12-08, 02:05 PM

I know blackout cloth is an option, but i can only find it in 53"-54" sizes, does anyone know where to get a larger size BOC?

Yes! Try 110" here (http://www.rosebrand.com/product34/Blackout-Lining-FR.aspx?tid=2&info=blackout%2blining) and here (http://www.carlofet.com/screens.html). :D

Steve Scherrer

02-12-08, 11:02 PM

Someone in another post today mentioned 2" X 4' X 8' foil faced insulation board from Home Depot. They made a quick backing for another material using Velcro.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789103

For the paper, I would think this would be a cheap solution in that you could thumb tack the paper to it around the edges and later cover it with a black material for a frame.

The foil should take care of the transparency issue with the paper as well and it would be nice and lightweight.

John

(Reposted from a post I posted in the post, posted above ;) )

Huh--I just arrived at this independently myself.

I am making a screen for our church for liturgical movie nights (showing "Prince of Egypt" in a few weeks). I had been using photography paper, but wanted something a little easier to use--something I could just pull out of storage and pop up on a wall. I rolled up the paper I used before, but it kind of took a beating while taking it down, and now has some creases on it, etc. Getting it up on the wall took a lot of duct tape, which now is stuck around the edges like a frame, but it doesn't keep the material flat, in fact it warps the paper a bit.

So I was wandering down the aisles in Home Depot when I came across this foam board. It's very stiff, and very flat and has a great surface. I am either going to tack a piece of photog paper to it or paint it. I will likely tack some photog paper to it, making it super easy. Instant screen. And then I can just easily remove the foam board/photog paper from the wall (which I will likely put up with velcro--the stuff is that light) and put the whole board against the wall in the church basement. I could easily carry the whole panel with one hand, it is that light.

I am also considering using this material for my outdoor screen as well--four 4x8 sheets side-by-side. I will likely paint this material and use gaffers tape to fill the seams. But this stuff is so light, yet apparently so durable, I think it will work great for that (assuming it doesn't get blown over by a sudden gust of wind!)

I will try to work up some pictures this time of the event.

By the way, the photog paper looks great for our church events!