I did a search and couldn't find much information on it. I want to start distributing HDTV throughout my house (to three TV's). They all have component and HDMI inputs. I have structured wiring in each room (two Cat5e and two coax, using one of the coax for regular cable at each location). I'm not using my Cat5e in those locations for anything at the moment so I'd like to use it if possible. Does anyone have any information on how to make this happen? I was hoping for a low cost solution, maybe an adapter of some type.

I also wanted to be able to run HDTV from my entertainment center to a projector I want to install. I have two cat 5e and 4 coax at that location that I want to run. I'm only using the one coax at the moment.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Do a search for AVAtrix.

Holy catfish batman! Thanks for the keyword, looks like a really nice setup... but $4000 doesn't quite quality as low cost solution in my humble opinion, hehehe :eek:

Also, I already have all my wires run in single gangbox formations. I was hoping for an adapter of some type.

Ok, what about a 4x2 matrix switch, HDTV (component video) balun and a stereo balun. It will be more pieces but it is cheaper. Passive devices seem to never be as good as active ones. YMMV ;)

http://www.cinemaronline.com/hdtv_switches.html
http://www.svideo.com/1080i.html
http://www.svideo.com/hifibalun.html

Oh, if you want to go HDMI or DVI you are really not going to like the options. $500/ location plus the cost of a matrix switch. :eek: At least with the HDMI you only should need 1 cat 5 cable since it can transmit audio. If you go with any of the others you need a second cat5 and baluns for the audio (stereo only).

http://www.svideo.com/ext-hdtv-cat5.html

Hi

Take a look here, you can do component at a more reasonable price but they offer HDMI options also.


Tom

http://www.avovercat5.com/product.htm

Excellent advice, that's what I was looking for!

Quick question though, would any of those devices be HDCP compliant (for future proofing)?

Also, do you know if I can use coax to transfer the audio? I've got spare coax as well.

Hey, what about something like this? Anyone have any experience with these types of devices? I guess the downside is I would need one at each location I think.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=7884&SID=

CELabs CAT5 RX/TX

http://www.celabs.net/Upload/ce0010_cat5_spec_sheet.pdf

Can do HDTV, audio (left/right or digital), and IR over a set of 2 CAT5 cables.

Here is a thread about it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=720744

Hey, what about something like this? Anyone have any experience with these types of devices? I guess the downside is I would need one at each location I think.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=7884&SID=

If the options are there, I'd always choose wired over wireless. ;)

Hey, what about something like this? Anyone have any experience with these types of devices? I guess the downside is I would need one at each location I think.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=7884&SID=
I had the older verison. It was Ok but was a bit of a pain when it cam to adding new content. It would have to rescan the entire share before anything new was available. Video quality was good without any major problems. I eventually got rid of it and purchased another DVD changer because it wasn't as efficient to rip DVDs to hard drives when you start adding in all the extras and multidisc sets.

Niles makes a little converter box (component and digi coax). Our rep dropped one off in our store the other day. I dont think they are on the website yet but here is the model C5-HDDA

we have the CVWP for component over cat5.

thenerds,net has the Gefen HDMI over CAT5: Search on HDMI Extender.

HDMI over CAT5 for about $350. Still pricey, but better than $500, I think :rolleyes:

A cheaper option may be a Cat-5 to RCA/coax balun, then use the existing coax cables with the one off the balun to provide a component connection that's quite inexpensive.

Those AVoverCat5 products seem to call for 1 shielded cat5 and one unshielded cat5 wire (for HDMI at least). I don't think I've seen shielded cat5 wire. Because of the twisted strand construction, most cat5 is unshielded. Not sure if that will really cause a difference in quality, or if it is just the company covering their @$$es.

It's definitely possible that STP is required instead of UTP, depending on the susceptibility of the signal to interference. It's generally about 10-20% more expensive.

I did a search and found that shielded CAt5e cable is readily available as Tim mentioned. I guess you really do learn something everyday!

I don't think the wires my builder put in were STP. I never thought of that one in advance. :(

What about running a computer connection like HD15 over CAT5? I may make my main source a HTPC.

Why not just use a component distribution amp and component baluns?

check smarthome dot com for parts. I have done it and it works fine. I upgraded to the B&K HD6 though so I could switch sources.

I wouldn't necessarily put in STP even now. Maybe if I could get it very similarly priced. It's less flexible and the benefit isn't as great unless you're doing some pretty crazy stuff with it. Okay, so maybe I'll put it in my next house.. :)

Anyway, I don't see why you couldn't solder/terminate a VGA plug on either end of two CAT-5 cables.

Skip STP if you can. The stuff is a pain to work with and correctly terminate.

Most standard VGA cables are 2 pair and 3 mini coax so just splicing the ends onto a couple of cat 5 cables doesn't really work that well.

I'm in the midst of wrapping up a similar project, based on component distribution.

I went with the Neothings Borrego 8 x 8 (originally had purchased the 8 x 4 but returned it for the 8 x 8) for switching, and used the Intelix series of baluns on each end for distribution over Cat5.

You'd need, at least, a 8 x 4 switch and those start ~$1k (though many folks here swear by the deals they find on used switches on ebay and the like) and baluns run you ~$75 - 100 on each end. You'll also need a way to control your components (in my case I went with IR distribution as well). Prices vary depending on what solution you choose.

Having just (well, almost) completed a similar setup, you'd be looking at ~$1500ish for a setup using new components.

I'll be posting a more detailed thread when my system is all buttoned-up, but I put it through its paces this weekend (the dreaded "moment of truth") and it was gorgeous to behold... ;)

I considered the AVATrix (a bit cost prohibitive for me) and would highly recommend the folks there, as they're some of the most helpful, polite people you'll find and folks with the AVATrix installed seem very pleased.

For me, the Neothings Borrego is a dream and Bill is also as kind a person as you'll deal with when looking into switches.

I ended up with the Intelix baluns based on price and the fact they sell a wallplate version of their component balun.j

I chose a Xantech IR block, with Buffalo IR receivers and transmitters.

Best of luck.

Thanks a bunch everyone. stickyfingers, can you post a link in this thread once you've got your rig details posted?

At least now I know my options. I only built two years ago, I have no idea why I didn't consider just putting in component or even HDMI right into the walls. It would have been so much simpler, maybe a little more costly to start with. But the saved headache and costs afterwards would make much more sense.

I don't think anyone answered my question yet on whether or not any of these setups would be HDCP compliant? I wouldn't want to get everything setup to only have it fail on me in a couple years due to HDCP! ;)

...I don't think anyone answered my question yet on whether or not any of these setups would be HDCP compliant? I wouldn't want to get everything setup to only have it fail on me in a couple years due to HDCP! ;)I don't think I've seen any (reasonably priced) HDCP compliant distribution systems.

Heck, just the cost of cabling could cost almost as much as a matrix switch... ;)

That said, this is AVS and someone is certain to correct me if I've missed something.

(FWIW, I think component will be around for quite some time...)

Why don't you run XBOX 360's as a media extender. You can get HDTV, movies, pictures, home videos, radio + gaming (if so inclined) all over a single CAT5 cable. I have the same challenge as you -- and a limited budget. I'm looking for people to poke holes in my solution -- but it seems to be the most bang for the buck.

Ssseth,

Component would obviously be HDCP compliant since it's an analog format, but HDMI would depend on the equipment. So you could theoretically run HDMI throughout the house and wait for the equipment to be compliant later. Or, as sticky suggests, just use component if your displays, etc, are compatible.

...Component would obviously be HDCP compliant since it's an analog format, but HDMI would depend on the equipment...I'm not following HDCP assiduously, but IIRC, component cannot be HDCP compliant as the HDCP "handshaking" occurs over either DVI or HDMI...

(Again...it's AVS - someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

Cheers.

I should have been much more clear.. It's not possible for component to pass HDCP handshaking since it's analog. Therefore all source and display devices ignore HDCP over component connections (and all other analog connections for that matter since there is no other option).

What I meant in my previous statement is that it's HDCP compliant because it's not HDCP non-compliant. :)

...What I meant in my previous statement is that it's HDCP compliant because it's not HDCP non-compliant. :)
I'm with you (and expected that's what you meant), I just didn't want the OP settling on component thinking his new 1080p HD thingamajiggy was HDCP compliant.

(though I still think component will be around for a *long* time...)

Good point. I agree about component being around for a while.

I'm still debating what to do with my own video distribution setup. I will have a bunch of Dell 20" widescreen LCD panels with S-video, composite, VGA, and DVI inputs and a USB hub. The primary purpose is as computers that run back to a central location with multiple computers and they can operate independently. But I also would like to run video feeds to them such as from the DVR, etc. But they don't have component inputs.. I guess I'll either need to get a single component->VGA transcoder and a VGA distribution amp or use S-video baluns.

I still have some time to ponder as it won't happen for another 6 months or so..

Thanks for the answer on the HDCP. So if my BluRay player (or digital cable box or whatever) requires HDCP over DVI/HDMI to work... I can just bypass it by using the component cables instead? Haha, that's pretty weak copy protection if you ask me. Truth be told I've never noticed THAT much of a difference between DVI/HDMI and component anyway.

miltimj make sure to let us know what you decide on. :)

That Xbox 360 question is actually a good one... I don't think it's quite as robust as what I was thinking of, but it's an idea. I wonder how they run HDTV over one ehternet cable. I suppose it's because they are using the cable for data and not for the actual video signals. I imagine if you had two or three of them going at the same time on the same network you might run into congestion problems.

Yes, you can bypass it with component. There's not much they can do about that. The "loss" being it's not an exact digital representation I guess. In the future if there are higher resolution standards, they may indeed look superior to component. For now, though, they're quite close in quality so it's not as big of a deal.

So if my BluRay player (or digital cable box or whatever) requires HDCP over DVI/HDMI to work... I can just bypass it by using the component cables instead? Haha, that's pretty weak copy protection if you ask me.

HDCP is only for preventing digital copies. If you want to make a high def copy using component outputs, it's possible, but not with any equipment you can get off-the-shelf today.

By the way, what are you using for your high-def source? I see lots of people talking about matrix switches on here. But if you have devices dedicated to each tv, like 3 cable boxes and three tvs you can just use a bunch of pairs of baluns to distribute your content. You will normally use one cat5 for component (and digital audio if you have it), and the other cat5 for stereo sound and the ir remote signal (you gotta control the stuff in the closet somehow).

If you also have 3 DVD players, you can just use regular switches and save a ton of money. Matrix switches are more practical when you have multiple tvs that must share one source, like a $2000 media center pc, or a $1000 blue ray player. Trying to share 1 regular dvd player across 3 tvs is probably not worth the cost of a matrix switch, because you could just buy 3 more dvd player for less money.

I am in the process of setting up an audio and video distribution system in my house because of a large addition I am doing to my house. I was thinking of going the Cat5 route for HDTV which I want disctrubited to at lease 5 to 7 locations through out the house.

I would like to hear form some success stories of HDTV over cat 5 products being used.

Also which products are controllable from CQC, ML or Home Logic

Thanks

Yes, you can bypass it with component. There's not much they can do about that. The "loss" being it's not an exact digital representation I guess. In the future if there are higher resolution standards, they may indeed look superior to component. For now, though, they're quite close in quality so it's not as big of a deal.


Be careful with that statement. Some things, such as upconverting DVD players, do not allow for upconverted output over component. You are restricted to 480p over component. Even my HD-DVD player, which puts out the HD-DVD discs fine over component, gives a message each time I play a normal DVD to let me know that res is limited over component.

You can't necessarily bypass HDCP but using component.

Right now HD-DVD gives the studios the option to use the Image Constraint Tag which would limit component video output to 480p. Currently there are no studios that have that flag enabled. But, in the future they may.

Some other HD devices (blu-ray, ps3) may allow for high res over component as well but also may have the same capability in them for content providers to limit the output resolution.

Good point, Sendero. This also brings up the point of ensuring that any DVI/HDMI switches (matrix or otherwise) are HDCP compliant.

I wonder if someone will make a device (or if it works in general) that is HDCP-compliant and converts DVI/HDMI to component (or VGA)?

I don't think its technically possible. My understanding of it is the they want it digital from end to end without the ability to record the signal. I think if a device came out that acted as a HDCP endpoint and then passed on the full res signal on component outputs that it'd be non-compliant since the point of HDCP is to prevent analog full-res copies (again, by my understanding).

Ted I think he is wanting to run everything on one cat5. The only way is with a matrix. I believe strongly in a matrix setup. Great quality video, you can pause in the theater room or media room when you get tired. And move to your lovely bedroom and hit play and continue your movie until you fall asleep.

As for the HDCP. I know there are hdmi to cat5 then cat5 to hdmi for longer runs. Now these since they are digital should be approved for the handshake.

Soon and probably sooner then we think. The whole HDCP thing will limit your resolution to 480P no matter what unless you are using HDMI or DVI. So be aware of this and plan to add a digital cable in the future.

Video over cat5 is becoming very popular so we need to accept it. Cheaper cables, less pulls, and digital. In a prewire always run a min of 2 cat5's and still run a min of 1 if you are short on cash for a rg6. But the best would be 3 cat5's and 2 rg6s.

I'm still a ways off my install but am looking at this component HD + digital audio over Cat5 (http://www.wholehouseaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=33739&d_id=5646&l1=5646&l2=) The "main" HD would be a front pj fed local HDMI but for other locations I could tolerate (I hope) the rare HDCP flag if I was watching elsewhere in the house, or go over to the home theater if I had to. So I don't really need HDMI over Cat5 but can still have HD in three other locations....

Has anyone any experience with this system?

Thanks

Andy

Looks pretty good. I'm a little concerned with Audio Control. I have never used the product but I believe it's a little lower end. I think the only issue would be if you were watching all three tvs on the hd source at the same time. Just a little degradation. But the chances are so slim that you would be watching them all at the same time and same source. I think if the price is right go for it. Just keep in mind the quality will probably be slightly lower than your HDMI feed. Also I would check to ensure your source will allow HDMI and Component out at the same time. I've personally never tried it but someone on here should know.

You know now that I think about it. Most DVD players if not all force you to choose one output. I''m not sure which HD DVD player you are using but I know that the Toshiba doesn't allow both. I jsut installed one and it's either HDMI or Component.

Correct me if I'm not tracking what you are wanting to do.

Joshua - thanks for the heads-up on the "low-end" nature of Audio Control!
You're right, chances of wanting to watch same source in different places is low - and watching outside the main HT would be fine via component if the loss is not great. Don't yet have a HD dvd player - sitting it out for a little - and would almost certainly watch that in the "right" place. It'd mainly be LiL HD or Discovery HD etc, via the main Dish receiver/DVR that I'd be sending to remote locations using this kind of device. I'll see what else I can find out about this - there may be a better solution with 2xCat5e, 2x RG6 bundled cable runs currently planned - wireless is creeping up on my install date later this year :)

AVoverCat5.com balun answers:

1) The HDMI over Cat 5 solution is HDCP compliant.

2) The shielded Cat 5 for the video run is to protect the signal from outside RF interference. Many customers use the product with regular Cat 5, but we have to recommend shielded just in case.

How much quality degradation can I expect from using passive balun devices (such as the products from intelix)?

My wife wants me to rearrage a media room so the TV is on a different wall, so I will need to run some cables through the walls to the new location. I estimate this will only be about 25ft, but since this is a retrofit, it will be a lot easier to only pull a few cat5e or cat6 cables instead of coax.

I'm not a total videophile, but I don't want it to suck, either. If there is a huge difference, I'll probably try to figure out how to work the 5 or so coax cables through in addition to some cat5e.

*edit* Currently I only need component video for HDTV, but I would like to do some future-proofing as well for HDMI, etc.

How much quality degradation can I expect from using passive balun devices (such as the products from intelix)?

My wife wants me to rearrage a media room so the TV is on a different wall, so I will need to run some cables through the walls to the new location. I estimate this will only be about 25ft, but since this is a retrofit, it will be a lot easier to only pull a few cat5e or cat6 cables instead of coax.

I'm not a total videophile, but I don't want it to suck, either. If there is a huge difference, I'll probably try to figure out how to work the 5 or so coax cables through in addition to some cat5e.

*edit* Currently I only need component video for HDTV, but I would like to do some future-proofing as well for HDMI, etc.
I went with Intelix baluns for my installation (I posted about it last week), and the picture quality is indistinguishable (to me) between direct connections.

you will be happy with Cat5

There's a recently-announced product line that distributes (not just point-to-point, but point-to-multipoint) HDMI + HDCP over a single Cat6 or Cat5e. The distributor is TecNec Distributing in New York State. As far as I know this is the only line that can do it over one cable (all the others require two cables) plus the only one that offers multi-output transmitters and receivers that can be linked together. I admit that while I'm not a TecNec employee, I do have a relationship with the original manufacturer. Nonetheless I suggest you check out the new HDMI products from TecNec. The brand/model names are Laird Telemedia LTM-5HDxxx.

I am in the process of setting up an audio and video distribution system in my house because of a large addition I am doing to my house. I was thinking of going the Cat5 route for HDTV which I want disctrubited to at lease 5 to 7 locations through out the house.

I would like to hear form some success stories of HDTV over cat 5 products being used.

Also which products are controllable from CQC, ML or Home Logic

Thanks

I'm distributing HD throughout the house using an 8x8 Extron Matrix switch (cost me $150 on ebay) and the CELabs RX/TX baluns ($160 pair). Works great and is controlled by CQC. I wrote the drivers for the Extron 100/200 switches and the Crosspoint/Crosspoint+s for CQC. As long as your Crosspoint follows the SIS protocol (all do but the very earliest ones) then there is a driver for it.

Why don't you run XBOX 360's as a media extender. You can get HDTV, movies, pictures, home videos, radio + gaming (if so inclined) all over a single CAT5 cable. I have the same challenge as you -- and a limited budget. I'm looking for people to poke holes in my solution -- but it seems to be the most bang for the buck.

I'll poke a big hole in it. You can't distribute DVDs with the menus in tact. You can't have a Changer full of DVDs and view them from an Extender. Yes you can rip them and run some 3rd party software but you won't have menus and forget about blu-ray.

Hi all,

I just got off the line with tech support at Monoprice, and they are telling me that i can run HDMI 1080 signal from my Satellite HD-PVR to a tv using thier $20 unit (HDMI over CAT5E / CAT6 Extender Wall Plate)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=5403&seq=1&format=2

According to the tech support person - it would require running 2 CAT5e cables but would not require any additional balun or anything. Does this sound at all possible?:confused:

Thanks,

Scb

I'm not sure how they're getting a 19-pin connector across 16 wires, but since there are many others that do, I guess it's very possible (and likely the most affordable option). I'm probably going to try them at some point as well.