No, they're serious about gaining full control, not maintaining any rights. It's all about the movie industry wanting you to pay every time you watch something (DiVX), not about copy protection, not about copyright violations, it's about control and revenue.

Exactly. This is about retaining control to maintain a revenue source without any invention, investment, any actual work.

Thanks God all these parasitic fat@sses will die out pretty soon - hey, Valenti is gone already though b/c of age, not pennilessness - and they know it.
Nobody needs them anymore, other than uber-budget production you really don't need a studio as soon as the digital world/online distribution took over.
That will be a real happy day, when all these bloodsucking parasites will go bankrupt, due to their own retarded arrogance, the lack of adaptivity - no one can turn the time back, their ship has sailed. :cool:

Column on the Chicago Tribune: Copy-protection code fight not helping HD-DVD industry (http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/columnists/chi-0705041448may08,1,2125981.column?track=rss)

His conclusion is interesting:

The DVD industry ought to be working on better ways to get their product to the masses. They are a very long way from selling people on the idea of HD-DVD discs at all, never mind copying them and passing them around.

Instead, they've made one long string of characters more popular than any single high-def disc. They've excited interest that didn't exist before in the idea that copy-protection can be cracked.

Probably most hurtful to their cause, they've made a lot more users feel like the content creators wear black hats and therefore, down the road, it will be OK to stick it to them by grabbing digital music and movies for free.

Oh, and the AACS LA has posted a note on its website:

RESPONSE TO REPORTS OF ATTACKS ON AACS TECHNOLOGY

May 7, 2007

AACS LA began several weeks ago sending letters to parties trafficking in tools used to circumvent AACS technology on Blu-ray and HD DVD movie discs. The letters requested the removal solely of illegal circumvention tools, including encryption keys, from a number of web sites. AACS LA recognizes the value of active public discussion and commentary related to these issues, and has not requested the removal or deletion of any such discussion or commentary. AACS LA is encouraged by the cooperation it has received thus far from the numerous web sites that have chosen to address their legal obligations in a responsible manner.

Column on the Chicago Tribune: Copy-protection code fight not helping HD-DVD industry (http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/columnists/chi-0705041448may08,1,2125981.column?track=rss)

His conclusion is interesting:
His perspective seems a little one-sided, particularly as he didn't mention the same code is also for Bluray.

I conjecture this is all a necessary part of anything becoming a popular mass consumer standard. Many of us, myself included, are not really comfortable with a media that is not yet cracked and cannot be backed up or converted as needed.

I usually figure anything I can't convert or copy will eventually be lost and thus don't feel that I really own it (the studios agree with me there ;) )

But if I know the material can be cracked by easily downloading something from the Internet then I have more confidence in it, even if I don't yet bother with that download. The material thus becomes more valuable to me and I will like the standard better.

- Tom

I conjecture this is all a necessary part of anything becoming a popular mass consumer standard. Many of us, myself included, are not really comfortable with a media that is not yet cracked and cannot be backed up or converted as needed.

I usually figure anything I can't convert or copy will eventually be lost and thus don't feel that I really own it (the studios agree with me there ;) )

But if I know the material can be cracked by easily downloading something from the Internet then I have more confidence in it, even if I don't yet bother with that download. The material thus becomes more valuable to me and I will like the standard better.

- TomDitto.

His perspective seems a little one-sided, particularly as he didn't mention the same code is also for Bluray.

You know what? I think he's actually referring to both formats, incorrectly using the terms "HD-DVD" and "high definition DVDs" to cover both. It's yet another article from someone who doesn't know about the formats.

Not sure why everyone is ranting on about "fair use" downloading and piracy.
I just want to play my HD-DVDs on my PC and watch it on my 56" HDTV neither of which are HDCP compliant. Without AnyDVD HD I couldn't watch them, so the movie studio's would be losing my custom. I don't want to copy anything, just watch it on my perfectly good existing HD system.

I just want to play my HD-DVDs on my PC and watch it on my 56" HDTV neither of which are HDCP compliant.You don't expect MPAA/AACS LA do have enough brains to get this, do you?
They still hope to prevent CD (Sony rootkit) and DVD (C&D letters to DVD Decrypter and RipIt4Me authors) copying.

Diogen.

Attempted' copyright infringement coming soon?

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is pressing the U.S. Congress to enact a sweeping intellectual-property bill that would increase criminal penalties for copyright infringement, including "attempts" to commit piracy.

"To meet the global challenges of IP crime, our criminal laws must be kept updated," Gonzales said during a speech before the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in Washington on Monday.

The Bush administration is throwing its support behind a proposal called the Intellectual Property Protection Act of 2007, which is likely to receive the enthusiastic support of the movie and music industries, and would represent the most dramatic rewrite of copyright law since a 2005 measure dealing with prerelease piracy.

* Criminalize "attempting" to infringe copyright. Federal law currently punishes not-for-profit copyright infringement with between 1 and 10 years in prison, but there has to be actual infringement that takes place. The IPPA would eliminate that requirement. (The Justice Department's summary of the legislation says: "It is a general tenet of the criminal law that those who attempt to commit a crime but do not complete it are as morally culpable as those who succeed in doing so.")

* Create a new crime of life imprisonment for using pirated software. Anyone using counterfeit products who "recklessly causes or attempts to cause death" can be imprisoned for life. During a conference call, Justice Department officials gave the example of a hospital using pirated software instead of paying for it.

* Permit more wiretaps for piracy investigations. Wiretaps would be authorized for investigations of Americans who are "attempting" to infringe copyrights.

* Allow computers to be seized more readily. Specifically, property such as a PC "intended to be used in any manner" to commit a copyright crime would be subject to forfeiture, including civil asset forfeiture. Civil asset forfeiture has become popular among police agencies in drug cases as a way to gain additional revenue, and it is problematic and controversial.

* Increase penalties for violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's anticircumvention regulations. Criminal violations are currently punished by jail times of up to 10 years and fines of up to $1 million. The IPPA would add forfeiture penalties.

* Add penalties for "intended" copyright crimes. Certain copyright crimes currently require someone to commit the "distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period of at least 10 copies" valued at more than $2,500. The IPPA would insert a new prohibition: actions that were "intended to consist of" distribution.

* Require Homeland Security to alert the Recording Industry Association of America. That would happen when CDs with "unauthorized fixations of the sounds, or sounds and images, of a live musical performance" are attempted to be imported. Neither the Motion Picture Association of America nor the Business Software Alliance (nor any other copyright holder, such as photographers, playwrights or news organizations, for that matter) would qualify for this kind of special treatment.

News.com (http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9719339-7.html)

Homeland Security? Give me a break :rolleyes:

Why don't they write a positive law that mandates managed copy use, then tack penalties on that? Just amazing what power groups hope to get from legislators.

Attempted' copyright infringement coming soon?


Wow ... this is freaking unbeleivable. Has the entire congress and the executive been sold over to Hollywood ?

Attempted' copyright infringement coming soon?



News.com (http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9719339-7.html)

This is hilarious and suicidal at the same time. If it ever passes - I highly doubt it -, other countries will openly break with this completely lunatic US stance and re-adjust their already ambiguous attitude toward policing US interests in their own country.

Homeland Security? Give me a break :rolleyes:

Exatcly. OTOH can anyone tell me why should *any* Dept (let alone DHS) spend any time and effort on my tax dollars working for RIAA/MPAA parasites?

Exatcly. OTOH can anyone tell me why should *any* Dept (let alone DHS) spend any time and effort on my tax dollars working for RIAA/MPAA parasites?

Because the parasites have bought the congress & the administration ?

There are two things you need for success in politics. Money... and I can't think of the other. ~ Senator Mark Hannah (R-OH), 1903

As an interesting aside, I notice the term "Banana Farmer" is starting to appear around the web at various places. I believe AVS (and Alan Greenspan) gets credit for this since it likely originated above in this thread in my post #319 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9454541&&#post9454541)

- Tom

Why don't they write a positive law that mandates managed copy use, then tack penalties on that? Just amazing what power groups hope to get from legislators.

Because the AG and dubya are Communists! They like spying on everyone and since congress has put the brakes on them, they need a law they can hide behind.

Wow ... this is freaking unbeleivable. Has the entire congress and the executive been sold over to Hollywood ?

You got it. Congress is the most corrupt organization in America! First came spying on United States Citizens without due process, then the bridge to "Nowhere", now Hollywood comes out of the crack in the wall (along with the **** roaches) with a bag full of money to criminalize everyone. My favorite part is that our government actually believe that it is okay to criminalize everyone.
Remember:

Innocent until proven guilty?

Now its:
Guilty until proven innocent! :mad:

We need serious campaign finance reform with more transparency into government actions.

If a politician is bought and paid for then he should have to admit it. Any hidden transaction should carry huge penalties. Close the loopholes.

- Tom

Pirates Already Cracked (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=197)

Didn't take them too long this time, did it?

Thanks God, let me add - the more stuff being compromised the better because the sooner this whole nightmare will go away, together with bloodsucking RIAA/MPAA parasites.

The processing key of the latest AACS update has been discovered (go to doom9 for more).
Expect C&D letters to start flying again (just like it happened the first time).

Diogen.

Should we change the thread title to 'AACS cracked beyond repair'? ;)

Should we change the thread title to 'AACS cracked beyond repair'? ;)

or "one down, one to go" :D

all that's left is BD+ and Hi Def media will become just as easy as DVD has become to crack. Fox suck my dic.....tionary ;)

The processing key of the latest AACS update has been discovered (go to doom9 for more).
Expect C&D letters to start flying again (just like it happened the first time).

Diogen.

If you look into the Doom9 thread, then on to the freedom to tinker site, one would think they were trying to lead us to believe the new PK was simply a random generated number that just "happened" to be the new key? Now as to if that is actually true or not we may never know.. and it's best we don't! :rolleyes:

Congrats to all those "behind the scenes" guys over at Doom9. Damn I'd luv to get my hands on all the PM's as that would be some good reading! Keep up the fight!

as a Linux user i just hope they crack AASC truly beyond repair so i can watch HD-movies (legally purchased) on my box

...Now as to if that is actually true or not we may never know.. and it's best we don't!About the same chance as "accidentally" win 6-49 ten times in a row. :)

DIogen.

as a Linux user i just hope they crack AASC truly beyond repair...Unlikely, since that would mean breaking AES-128.
But a couple more back-n-forth and a robust enough toolset might be developed to make revokation a non-issue.

As soon as this happens, there is the risk of losing PC-playback capability in anything but Vista, I believe.

Diogen.

As soon as this happens, there is the risk of losing PC-playback capability in anything but Vista, I believe.

How? If tools become available which are "robust enough... to make revokation a non-issue", then there's no way they can prevent playing discs on PCs. All they can do is stop licensing players for non-Vista systems, but it wouldn't prevent 3rd parties from supporting "unencrypted" discs.

The processing key of the latest AACS update has been discovered (go to doom9 for more).
Expect C&D letters to start flying again (just like it happened the first time).

Diogen.Wonderful news!!!

Just as Apple begins releasing DRM-free music on iTunes. What a day for DRM!

The way the AACS is dying, I wouldn't be surprised if a randomly generated number would work! LOL

All I know is:

AAC5 15 DEAD AAC5 15 DEAD AAC5 15 DEAD00

:D

Should we change the thread title to 'AACS cracked beyond repair'? ;)


I've suggested changing the title a couple times. But I'm starting to become accustomed to it the way it is and it's probably better this way.

Can you put smileys in titles? :D

- Tom

Between the Doom9 hackers and AnyDVD, I don't see ANY way that AACS has any possibility to get an upper hand on this. AACS has a built in 90 day policy for the content owners, and it is now PROVEN that 1 day is all it takes for a counter from the dedicated anti-AACS people.

I would not be a bit surprised if Slysoft is already sitting on top of the Processing/Device keys for ALL the hardware players out there, and just being very cautious about revealing their hand as required.

Once the mud starts flying, and perhaps the non 64 bit vista playback software gets revoked (Possible?), they can still rip keys from the stand alone players.

I'm shocked there is no Lunix player out there to take the known information and create a player. Based on the rapid pace of the windows demux and growing understanding of the format....I give it weeks before this happens. Especially since there is a "rev 3" processing key already out there.


Also, I'd not be to shocked to hear that certain doom9 superstars are in communication, to prevent leaking more than is needed with the MINIMUM 90 days between "updates" required for the content owners.

I see this as CSS, Once broken.....ALWAYS broken.

Seems they are making great headway on conversion tools as well.

Won't be too long to take a HD-DVD release and convert/burn it as a Bluray disk, and already converting to friendly PTP formats and sharing...

How? If tools become available which are "robust enough... to make revokation a non-issue"...The way I understand it, Vista has some "features" that make getting a simple memory dump (as an example) not as easy as it is in XP.
The moment it becomes clear (for AACS LA and its licensees) that either PowerDVD or WinDVD will leak the key the moment it is updated (essentially a WinXP issue, not the player's), the XP versions of the players won't get new keys, only Vista as a playback platform will be allowed.
Hell will most probably break lose, but I think this can happen.
Or PC playback will be banned alltogether (less likely).
Or the optical hidef formats as we know it today will die.

Diogen.

P.S. I re read part of this thread, and for those that are saying Blue Ray or HD-DVD is less cracked, your WRONG, with BOTH the first and second processing key now leaked, BOTH formats are EQUALLY BROKEN!

The same unmentionable key will decode and allow really good Doom9 editing software to work with BOTH formats, and latest titles, so the format war is already ALMOST a moot point.

The way I understand it, Vista has some "features" that make getting a simple memory dump (as an example) not as easy as it is in XP.

Diogen.

This is ONLY true of the 64 bit edition, as the 32 bit edition will fall prey to all the current hacking/disassembly tools avail.

There is not nearly enough market share of "strong 64 bit vista" , and there are far too many people with xp/vista 32 with players now to just say NO!

It will be fun to watch AACS fall down like the Berlin wall....

I like the Finnish court ruling (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9021546&source=rss_topic17): "ineffective" DRM deserves to be broken. :)
Too bad it has zero chance to be upheld on this side of the ocean.

To the contrary, since hackers were equated to terrorists before the AACS fiasco, we might soon see some of them on the death row in Texas.

Diogen.

P.S. I re read part of this thread, and for those that are saying Blue Ray or HD-DVD is less cracked, your WRONG, with BOTH the first and second processing key now leaked, BOTH formats are EQUALLY BROKEN!Nobody has seen BD+ in action yet...

Diogen.

Nobody has seen BD+ in action yet...

Diogen.

Thats because they have not got it working yet!

If they do, and can get the consumers to "Plug in" and "Update" the Stand alone players to make this silly sandbox"....How long do you think it will take to make a "Sandbox Player"....

Look at Sony's record, they failed MISERABLY to create evey format they attempted!

Sony sounds to me like
1. Betamax
2. DAT
3. PSP Media,
4. Blue Ray (It's dead on arrival)

...How long do you think it will take to make a "Sandbox Player....I don't know.
But I'll believe in your "BOTH formats are EQUALLY BROKEN" after I see this happen.

Diogen.

Diogen,

If I didn't search/read your previous posts, I'd be concerned you were a shill for the Sony camp.

History and facts will prove more effective than any bloviating you can do for that camp.

I don't know.
But I'll believe in your "BOTH formats are EQUALLY BROKEN" after I see this happen.

Diogen.
I hate to break it to you, but BOTH formats were FULLY compromised AGAIN with the same processing key, and to say any differently would be asinine.

...History and facts will prove more effective than any bloviating you can do for that camp.Maybe you should do a bit more reading before coming to those extrapolating conclusions...

Diogen.

was it the same key? so the hacked hd-dvd drive for the 360 is not only compromising all hd-dvd titles now and in the future, but blu-ray as well? boy, if microsoft is trying to kill both formats like everyone suspects, they must love that.

But I'll believe in your "BOTH formats are EQUALLY BROKEN" after I see this happen.

What more do you want??? Both the Matrix (all 3) and POTC (both films) have been released onto the internets . Both had the new keys and both were defeated in less than one day (Matrix defeated before the actual street date).

I suspect that BD+/BD-J security has more value as a promised ace in the hole giving content owners something to hope for. Once actually released I'd guess its value will rapidly drop to zero.

I don't know if it costs extra for mastering but, if so, I'd expect most studios to stop using it once it proves ineffective. But like AACS it may have to go thru a few 'new & improved' iterations first before the facts become obvious.

Just a personal opinion.

- Tom

The security that really impressed me was their ability to stop me taking screen grabs from HD-DVDs

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4296/snapx3ts1.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapx3ts1.jpg)http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9731/snapa6hc3.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapa6hc3.jpg)http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2349/snap47ln1.th.jpg (http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snap47ln1.jpg)http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/773/snapx5gh7.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapx5gh7.jpg)

I finally got around it though.

I suspect that BD+/BD-J security has more value as a promised ace in the hole giving content owners something to hope for. Once actually released I'd guess its value will rapidly drop to zero.That might turn out to be very true.
But it has to happen, for this issue to be closed for good and forgotten about as another protection layer.

Diogen.

diogen, seriously, do you you really believe BD+ will stand the heat?

Would you be willing to make a friendly wager? :D

diogen, seriously, do you you really believe BD+ will stand the heat?No, I don't.
Would you be willing to make a friendly wager? :DNo, I wouldn't.

Has posting before reading become as popular on AVS as it is on slashdot?

Diogen.

The way I understand it, Vista has some "features" that make getting a simple memory dump (as an example) not as easy as it is in XP.
The moment it becomes clear (for AACS LA and its licensees) that either PowerDVD or WinDVD will leak the key the moment it is updated (essentially a WinXP issue, not the player's), the XP versions of the players won't get new keys, only Vista as a playback platform will be allowed.

But that's just revocation, and if tools are "robust enough... to make revocation a non-issue...", as you stated, then revoking PDVD/WinDVD on XP/32-bit Vista will have no effect.

But that's just revocation, and if tools are "robust enough... to make revocation a non-issue...", as you stated, then revoking PDVD/WinDVD on XP/32-bit Vista will have no effect.True.
If "robust enough" means not needing an authorized player at all to rip and decrypt the movie - then the the game would be over.
Neutralizing the revocation procedure would probably be the most effective method - but that might have to wait (and maybe even not needed).

Diogen.

I don't think PowerDVD and winDVD supply any keys.

Thats because they have not got it working yet!

If they do, and can get the consumers to "Plug in" and "Update" the Stand alone players to make this silly sandbox"....How long do you think it will take to make a "Sandbox Player"....

Look at Sony's record, they failed MISERABLY to create evey format they attempted!

Sony sounds to me like
1. Betamax
2. DAT
3. PSP Media,
4. Blue Ray (It's dead on arrival)

Successful formats created by Sony:

floppy disk
CD
8mm tape
DV
Superbeta

and how is UMD a failure? only one device has ever used it, and thats PSP, and PSP is most certainly not a failure. distributing movies on UMD may be a failure, but UMD itself is not, since ALL PSP games have never been distributed on anything else. it's like saying the nintendo DS cartridges are a failure because there have never been movies on it.

If hollywood is waiting for the 64bit of Windows Vista to be their savior, they are in for a long wait. It ain't ready for prime time or anytime. Its dead on arrival. It is a complete failure. I installed it on a home made AMD system just see what it could do. Every piece of software loaded, hung, froze, and completly shut it down to a crawl. I found one piece of software that worked and that was it. We are are 5 years away from it becoming even 10% of the installed base. Every programmer I know are telling me the same thing. 64 bit is dead in the water. I know three programmers who work at IBM in Boulder. One of them was working on a project @ IBM to supply a financial application for Intel's Itanium 64 bit processor. He was pulled off to work on multithreaded applications in a 32 bit environment.
Many of the worlds software programmers are retooling and learning how to write multithreaded applications for multiple core processors not 64 bit.

Its dead.

I don't know if 64 bit is DOA, MS may force it on us whether we want it or not. For example, Exchange 2007 is 64 bit only. I know that is a server application, but we don't know what MS's long term plans are.

Another thought, how many people really wanted Vista? No one that I know, but they've sold a ton of copies via the OEM route. They have a way of making you want what they want.

Look at Sony's record, they failed MISERABLY to create evey format they attempted!

Sony sounds to me like
1. Betamax
2. DAT
3. PSP Media,
4. Blue Ray (It's dead on arrival)

Perhaps you could list out Toshiba's successful format introductions.
1. half or less of DVD
2. HD-DVD (sucess debatable)
3. ????

Sony has many failed attempts because they have so many attempts. Other lower rung manufacturer's like Tosh barely have the resources for creating any formats.
HD-DVD is just DVD with smaller pits, blue laser idea stolen from BD, and codecs from Microsoft, security from AACS. Hardly an engineering marvel.

I don't think PowerDVD and winDVD supply any keys.
They do.
The AACS system can be used to revoke a key of a specific playback device, after it is known to have been compromised, as it has for WinDVD.[16] The compromised players can still be used to view old discs, but not newer releases without encryption keys for the compromised players. If other players are then cracked, further revocation would lead to legitimate users of compromised players being forced to upgrade or replace their player software or firmware in order to view new discs. Each playback device comes with a binary tree of secret device and processing keys.
Taken from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy).

Diogen.

Perhaps you could list out Toshiba's successful format introductions.
1. half or less of DVD
2. HD-DVD (sucess debatable)
3. ????

Sony has many failed attempts because they have so many attempts. Other lower rung manufacturer's like Tosh barely have the resources for creating any formats.
HD-DVD is just DVD with smaller pits, blue laser idea stolen from BD, and codecs from Microsoft, security from AACS. Hardly an engineering marvel.

I'd give Toshiba some credit for Toslink.

But the previous post calling DAT a failure? It was very popular for pro use, and never made any headway for consumers as the RIAA threatened to sue any company that made a mass-market deck! See wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMS) for details on why it wasn't mainstream.

Sony have been masters of Pro formats, and CD is nothing to sneeze at. We're still using 12cm discs for this reason, after all.

They do.

Taken from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy).

Diogen.

Taken from somewhere else

"So, I take it, you're assuming, that we "accidentally" managed to decrypt the HD-DVDs so far? So little trust? Also, what makes you think, xxxxxx is using "the processing key" to unlock the discs? In case you are referring to the rumour, that xxxxxx is based on some findings from the doom9 people: no, we never used any of that information - we already had the full decryption done early in January, that was when they were still sniffing title keys from memory. In other words: we do our own research and development and surely are capable of continuing that work."

I'd give Toshiba some credit for Toslink.


Tosh did do Toslink, but its been pretty much replaced by SPDIF for audio transport, which just happens to be a Sony/Philips standard ;)

Taken from somewhere else...I guess this is from SlySoft...
There are at least half a dozen different keys used in AACS as implemented in BD/HD: some revokable, some not, some used as input to calculate others, etc.
You should read arnezami's posts on doom9, this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122363) for example. Processing key identifies a player, hardware or software.
A player that doesn't have one, won't be able to play (legitimately) BD/HD.

Having a processing key allows you to write your own software player and it will play HD/BD (until that key is revoked).

Diogen.

Dailytech: AACS Remains Confident in Protecting HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc (http://www.dailytech.com/AACS+Remains+Confident+in+Protecting+HD+DVD+Bluray+Disc/article7400.htm)

Dailytech: AACS Remains Confident in Protecting HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc (http://www.dailytech.com/AACS+Remains+Confident+in+Protecting+HD+DVD+Bluray+Disc/article7400.htm)

Lol, I love that!! basically all they said was that they were gonna trying to hide the keys better :rolleyes:

I'd give Toshiba some credit for Toslink.

But the previous post calling DAT a failure? It was very popular for pro use, and never made any headway for consumers as the RIAA threatened to sue any company that made a mass-market deck! See wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMS) for details on why it wasn't mainstream.

Sony have been masters of Pro formats, and CD is nothing to sneeze at. We're still using 12cm discs for this reason, after all.

Sure: it's for CD-Audio only, mostly defined by Philips, not Sony.

If it were up to Sony then we would be in the deepest **** of all rootkits - Philips had to warn Sony and others to NOT to put the CD-ROM/CD-Audio logo on their DRM/rootkit-infected non-standard discs.

Stop giving too much credit to Sony - last 15-20 years in CE they only succeeded in ideal circumstances, when they got a monopoly and they ALWAYS failed in real competition, when they couldn't rape the market and enforce their own proprietary crap.

Stop giving too much credit to Sony - last 15-20 years in CE they only succeeded in ideal circumstances, when they got a monopoly and they ALWAYS failed in real competition, when they couldn't rape the market and enforce their own proprietary crap.
As a fomer Sony minidisc and "network walkman" owner, I would say you hit the nail on the head. After that experience, I wouldnt touch Sony harware or software with a 10 foot pole. So fo me personally "Blue-Ray" is a non-starter. I'l sit it out no matter what. Movies are not necesseity in life.

Centricom Files Suit Against Sony For AACS Patent Infringement (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20592)

Cryptography software provider Certicom has initiated litigation in the Eastern District of Texas against Sony, for patent infringement related to the AACS content protection used in Blu-Ray.

In its filing, Certicom alleged infringement concerning two United States patents used in the content protection technologies found in Sony products.

The patents-in-suit are two of Certicom's fundamental patents used in consumer electronics, in particular its version of Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) public-key scheme. In its complaint, Certicom alleges Sony has, and continues to, infringe, contribute to and induce the infringement of Certicom's patents by making, using, importing, offering for sale and selling their products in the U.S. without being licensed by Certicom to do so. These patents are related to content protection technologies, including Advanced Access Control System (AACS) used in Blu-ray and Digital Transmission Content Protection (DTCP) used in wired and wireless distribution of compression audio and video. Products affected include Playstation 3, DVD players, VAIO personal computers and certain high definition TV models and audio equipment.

"We have invested heavily in ECC research and development over many years and feel strongly that our shareholders deserve fair value from companies using our patented technology," said Bernard Crotty, President and Chief Executive Officer. "We prefer to resolve these issues through commercial discussions and without litigation. However, at this point we are left with no alternative but to file suit."

Sony has not made any official statement on the suit.

Certicom has filed the related ECC patent at the US Patent and Trademark Office in 2000.

Centricom Files Suit Against Sony For AACS Patent Infringement (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20592)Things just keep getting better in the world of DRM. ;)

Bit Torrent Site Ordered to Give User's Data to MPAA (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20659)

Oh OhA ruling unleashed last Friday orders site Torrentspy.com to keep information (logs) of its users that could be used as evidence in a copyright infringement lawsuit filed movie studios and the MPAA.

TorrentSpy was ordered on May 29 by a federal judge in the Central District of California in Los Angeles to create logs detailing users' activities on the site.

The information could allow court identify the activities of the users of the popular seach engine, as well as their IP addresses.

The Motion Picture Association of America, sued TorrentSpy in February 2006 as part of a sweep against file-sharing companies. According to the MPAA, the search engine was sued for allegedly making it easier to download pirated files.

Torrentspy's administrators posted a message in the front page of their web site, saying that they are appealing the judge's order and that they will not create any logs of what its users do throughout the site. The appeal must be filed by June 12.

Bit Torrent Site Ordered to Give User's Data to MPAA (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20659)

Oh Oh

Because of efficiency concerns it is not yet very easy to anonymously download large files. However it seems it would be very easy to publish instructions on how to easily & anonymously access torrent sites where you are just getting file listings and very small torrent files anyway. But maybe I''m missing something.

- Tom

Bit Torrent Site Ordered to Give User's Data to MPAA (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20659)

Oh Ohehh......doesn't really do too much, and the judge stayed his order pending appeal. So many ways around this.

Meanwhile, The Pirate Bay continues on...

Based on the latest discovery (http://www.doom9.org/) who was behind the Australia raids and activity to shut down RipIt4Me development (Sony, as it turns out, not Macrovision as was suspected), one doesn't have to have vivid imagination to predict what they will do to protect their latest AACS+BD+ system.

Isn't there capital punishment for hacking yet?

Diogen.

Based on the latest discovery (http://www.doom9.org/) who was behind the Australia raids and activity to shut down RipIt4Me development (Sony, as it turns out, not Macrovision as was suspected), one doesn't have to have vivid imagination to predict what they will do to protect their latest AACS+BD+ system.

Isn't there capital punishment for hacking yet?

Diogen.

Thankfully nobody gives a flying *** about Sony or *AAA or other parasites in most part of the world so I bet RipIt4Me's successor is already in the works. :D

Let's hope at least 5-10 different group will develop things so Sony and **AA parasites will bleed to death spending money on their utterly retarded conquest against this 100-headed hydra - in toher words against the rest of the world. :cool:

AACS to counterattack with watermarks and encrypted keys (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/AACS-to-counterattack-with-watermarks-and-encrypted-keys.html)

The AACS Licensing Administrator introduced new concepts against piracy of high definition videos. During a conference in Berlin they explicitely aimed at Slysoft's AnyDVD HD software by implementing further protection of the keys in the yet to be finished version of the AACS copy protection.

The final AACS version will require a recognition of watermarks embedded to the video to prevent camrips. These watermarks have to be recognised by all AACS compliant readers and halt the playback. Furthermore an encryption of the so called "data keys" will be added. These keys differ between drives and discs meaning that volume keys, processing keys, or title keys that will be retrieved by hackers in the future, will not enable others to decrypt the movie because, data keys will be calculated differently between different drives.

The keys that are compromised by AnyDVD HD so far will be revoked within a few days meaning that players will require new keys that can be updated either online or by reading them from new discs.

Since the last revocation was bypassed 10 days before the first "new" disc even hit the streets, I am willing to bet that this round will meet the same fate.

When will they ever learn?

AACS to counterattack with watermarks and encrypted keys (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/AACS-to-counterattack-with-watermarks-and-encrypted-keys.html)

So, how are they going to make this work without breaking all existing players?

Either they can't (and who's going to piss off 100% of your userbase), or it's just a lot of talk.

So, how are they going to make this work without breaking all existing players?

Either they can't (and who's going to piss off 100% of your userbase), or it's just a lot of talk.

I don't think hardware players are affected by these as they can be updated via disk/movie/internet. But all software players will have to be updated.

I wonder how this affects the ability to play home generated content which would not have a watermark?

- Tom

I don't think hardware players are affected by these as they can be updated via disk/movie/internet. But all software players will have to be updated.

But they make it "sound" like it's a rather significant change in how AACS works. Which is my point, if it really is a significant change, they'll break all existing hardware. Otherewise, if it's just a simple software update, then presumably it's just a simple software update for the "other guys" as well.

There is no way that the AACS-LA will do anything that will break all current hardware. That would be format suicide. But they also need to show like they are doing something.

I predict a software update that will revoke all current keys and then the "other side" will defeat the new keys a week before those new discs hit the streets. Just like last time.

There is no way that the AACS-LA will do anything that will break all current hardware. That would be format suicide. But they also need to show like they are doing something.

Exactly.

I predict a software update that will revoke all current keys and then the "other side" will defeat the new keys a week before those new discs hit the streets. Just like last time.

Basically, like I said, it's either going to break everything, or it's all talk. I vote for all talk.

It's not a big deal for HD DVD to require a firmware upgrade, 4.5M PS3s and a bunch of Ethernet less BR standalones might be a bit more tricky.

PS It would be quite funny if HD DVD implemented AACS V2 and BR didn't

It's not a big deal for HD DVD to require a firmware upgrade, 4.5M PS3s and a bunch of Ethernet less BR standalones might be a bit more tricky.

PS It would be quite funny if HD DVD implemented AACS V2 and BR didn't

your funny :)

PS3 gets so many firmware updates its crazy, stand alones will be updated the first movie disk you put in the player that requires the new keys.

AACS to counterattack with watermarks and encrypted keys (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/AACS-to-counterattack-with-watermarks-and-encrypted-keys.html)At least it should make for an interesting month. Especially if BD+ gets released on a disc. My guess is that neither of them will hold up for 30 days, but BD+ might hold up longer at first because it is new.

--Darin

At least it should make for an interesting month. Especially if BD+ gets released on a disc. My guess is that neither of them will hold up for 30 days, but BD+ might hold up longer at first because it is new.

--Darin

BD+ is supposedly different for each title, so cracking them is like cracking satellite STB, it's a dance that has to be done every week as each BD+ title gets released.

Given the way these things work, someone will crack the 1st BD+, proclaim in doom9 it is cracked and then lose interest until a title everybody really wants show up, which will take some time to crack again.

And so forth.

It'll be like video games. The scene will be busy cracking movies and getting a working copy out, that's all that is required one copy for pirates to get their movie for free. While genuine users the ones that suffer.

As has been stated before... this is forever a "cat and mouse" game. All this AACS BS is more of a hindrance for the consumer more-so than any pirate out there.

Case in point.. my own HTPC that has more than enough horsepower to play hi-def content cannot do so legally because of a non-compliant HDCP chain. So, what I have to do is play through my XBox 360 via the HD-DVD add on.. which means I have to steal it from my teenaged son, rehook to my 50" DLP and AV receiver to watch. Now the hookup part is not so difficult... but have you ever tried to snag a 360 from a teenager online playing COD, Gears of War, Halo, etc????

Yes I know there are many ways out there to circumvent the HDCP issue, ( anydvdhd, backup hddvd, aacskeys, dump hd, dvd fab ), but fact of the matter is, the mid level techy can even be ovewhelmed by those tasks.. much less the entry level HTPC guy. And who's to guarantee that it's gonna work on the next counter attack from the AACS?

And with my new purchase of a Panasonic HD camcorder that uses the latest AVCHD format which uses a blu-ray type file structure, I would like to eventually be able to author to a blu-ray disc... but then I go and read where where the most evil of all consumer electronics empires may limit the playback of home-authored blu-ray discs through the PS3. This of course to curve piracy... HA... while of course screwing the consumer.

Summary... AACS is in panic mode, keys were much more easily found than they thought would be. AACS is in spin mode... Studios are skeptical of AACS because if the AACS LA knew this first round of key revocation would be cracked, then why didn't they implement this next enhanced version right off the bat?

I just wanna play my HD-DVD discs guys ( with ease )... the big boys have seemed to have lost track of that. Hence the ongoing battle between AACS, the Studios, and the HD-DVD and Blu-ray camps. All of us are watching while you drive your latest and greatest HD formats into the grave.

From CD Freaks: Slysoft breaks lastest 'unbreakable' HD-DVD and BluRay copy protection (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Slysoft-breaks-lastest-unbreakable-HD-DVD-and-BluRay-copy-protection.html)



[...] Slysoft is now sending out pretty bold statements that for us CD Freaks are more than fun to read:

SlySoft was recently honoured by AACS-LA, being declared as public enemy number one in the ongoing battle for copyright protection.

To prove them right and to take on the challenge, SlySoft has just released the latest AnyDVD version which beats the latest 4th generation HD-DVD and BluRay copy protection MKBv4, which was expected to be unbreakable.

All that AACS-LA has to offer now is BD+, but even that is on the verge of being circumvented and a release is expected by the end of this year.
James Wong, Head of development at SlySoft: "We already found a way to crack BD+ and we have just turned to fine-tuning. I should really think about hiring a bodyguard now, since this product won't please everybody."

Giancarlo Bettini, CEO of SlySoft: "One could start feeling sorry for the poor movie industry guys, but in the end, it saves their jobs and ours. Actually, they could be grateful and show a little bit more appreciation.
Beating AACS-LA's protection was a challenge that we accepted passionately, since winning feels a lot better if the opponent is almost as strong as we are. However, I wonder when people will understand that more restrictions, pressure and protections that prevent things from working won't generate more but less revenue. Microsoft's revenue in the 90ies prove us right and even Apple recently released a DRM-free iTunes version."

And to prove, they have released new versions of AnyDVD, CloneCD and VirtualCloneDrive with the most important update, support for MKBv4, which allows you to copy the latest movies, once again.

That's not quite accurate. Only select titles are supported that have MKBv4. The full MKBv4 is coming soon from what I've read, but not quite yet.

From the latest release notes:

"- New (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Added support for some popular MKBv4 discs
(e.g., "Transformers" HD DVD, US, "Spiderman 1-3" Blu-ray, US)
Note: Support for all MKBv4 discs will be added in a future release"

From CD Freaks: Slysoft breaks lastest 'unbreakable' HD-DVD and BluRay copy protection (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Slysoft-breaks-lastest-unbreakable-HD-DVD-and-BluRay-copy-protection.html)


What's ironic (?) is that Intervideo still hasn't broken (I mean implemented) MKB V4 yet in PowerDVD Ultra. It's so nice that they (AACS) are breaking legitimate players, forcing people to use "alternative" means to play their discs.

The constant firmware updates, and breaking/fixing of players is going to be the death of these formats.

That's not quite accurate. Only select titles are supported that have MKBv4. The full MKBv4 is coming soon from what I've read, but not quite yet.

From the latest release notes:

"- New (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Added support for some popular MKBv4 discs
(e.g., "Transformers" HD DVD, US, "Spiderman 1-3" Blu-ray, US)
Note: Support for all MKBv4 discs will be added in a future release"
Transformers' AACS protection is already broken and the hd dvd is downloadable now.

What's ironic (?) is that Intervideo still hasn't broken (I mean implemented) MKB V4 yet in PowerDVD Ultra. It's so nice that they (AACS) are breaking legitimate players, forcing people to use "alternative" means to play their discs.

The constant firmware updates, and breaking/fixing of players is going to be the death of these formats.

think you meant Cyberlink and not Intervideo, IV makes WinDVD, which has yet to fully support HD DVD/Blu-ray afaik. it is indeed ironic that the only way to properly play your paid for retail disc is to use a cracking software to circumvent the protection on your retail bought disc.

Transformers' AACS protection is already broken and the hd dvd is downloadable now.


Yea, I know. My point was that they are currently just including support for select titles, rather than having the full crack for MKBv4 (which that quote above suggests). Although from reading their forum, sounds like they are leaving out the general crack to slow down the AACS from blacklisting the current keys/method they are using. Also to keep their competition from copying it as well (DVDFab).

think you meant Cyberlink and not Intervideo, IV makes WinDVD, which has yet to fully support HD DVD/Blu-ray afaik. it is indeed ironic that the only way to properly play your paid for retail disc is to use a cracking software to circumvent the protection on your retail bought disc.

Another interesting side to this is future support of any players. What if a player is compromised 10 years from now. Is the OEM required to support old hardware/software forever? Or does it get blacklisted and all of the remaining owners end up getting hosed?

Another interesting side to this is future support of any players. What if a player is compromised 10 years from now. Is the OEM required to support old hardware/software forever? Or does it get blacklisted and all of the remaining owners end up getting hosed?

Just track WInDVD since it was responsible for the first published crack. Does it have full support and updates now? Will it?

- Tom

Just track WInDVD since it was responsible for the first published crack. Does it have full support and updates now?I wonder about the HD DVD player app that Toshiba bundles with their HD DVD capable notebook PCs. It says Toshiba everywhere on it now, yet I thought I remember that the original July 2006 Tosh HD DVD capable notebooks used a version of Intervideo WinDVD. Is Toshiba now doing direct support/maintenance for the HD DVD player app? Their notebooks are all set up to "call home" for updates. My recent experience was with a X205 I got for my daughter.

think you meant Cyberlink and not Intervideo, IV makes WinDVD, which has yet to fully support HD DVD/Blu-ray afaik.

You're right, they (Intervideo/Cyberlink) are about equally low on my list :D

it is indeed ironic that the only way to properly play your paid for retail disc is to use a cracking software to circumvent the protection on your retail bought disc.

Yup, and I'm sure the Samsung and LG (I think that's right) owners are happily waiting for firmware updates to play new discs.

At times I really wonder if the industry is actually trying to kill both formats. I mean early adopters are about a tolerant of inconveniences as people get, but really....

Just track WInDVD since it was responsible for the first published crack. Does it have full support and updates now? Will it?

- Tom

Quoting myself here but I just went to www.corel.com looking for info on WinDVD for BD and could not find any. Have they stopped selling this, or that BD upgrade pack?

If so it would seem BD companies can indeed drop support. What happens with a key change now on WinDVD/BD?

- Tom

If so it would seem BD companies can indeed drop support. What happens with a key change now on WinDVD/BD?

- Tom

a class action suit representing BD ROM/WinDVD owners if any PC oem made the mistake of selling them as a bundle.

and it'll be a winner.

to all those soapboxing about piracy and this and that....

Im just a simple end user who has an HTPC with non HDCP hardware. (7600gt video cards x2) I like Sly's software because it allows me to watch movies (both camps) that I own and not have to worry about compliant hardware... plain and simple. IM now enjoying a new throng of titiles (HD DVD and Blu) that I OWN over an HDMI (Digital-NON HDCP) connection.

Plain and Simple.

Thanks James and Team Sly.

Giancarlo Bettini, CEO of SlySoft: "One could start feeling sorry for the poor movie industry guys, but in the end, it saves their jobs and ours. Actually, they could be grateful and show a little bit more appreciation.
Beating AACS-LA's protection was a challenge that we accepted passionately, since winning feels a lot better if the opponent is almost as strong as we are. However, I wonder when people will understand that more restrictions, pressure and protections that prevent things from working won't generate more but less revenue. Microsoft's revenue in the 90ies prove us right and even Apple recently released a DRM-free iTunes version."

Valid point. The bigger challenge is getting the product accepted by the mainstream at all. If that is done the profit is there regarless of pirates.

DRM needs to make it inconvenient to pirate, not neccessarily unbreakable. Making it a big hassle is enough to dissuade most consumers.

Can AACS updates to the players be distributed on the movie disks themselves?

Once a movie is on bitorrent sites the damage is done, it only takes one person to crack the movie and upload it. BD+ just makes it more inconvenient to people that have bought the disc and can't play it through there media server.

Once a movie is on bitorrent sites the damage is done, it only takes one person to crack the movie and upload it. BD+ just makes it more inconvenient to people that have bought the disc and can't play it through there media server.

That damage is done true, for ********** users d/ling 15-50gig files which is an issue not yet necessarily the biggest concern for mass market piracy.

That still leaves of the issues of pirate disks appearing on the streets with same convenience and lower price compared to legit disks.