By "convert" I mean someone who whole heartedly supported HD DVD. gave up on it, and bought into Blu Ray? Just curious...

I am. I had the Toshiba A-1 and almost 30 HD Dvds. And Ive now done the Conversion. I enjoyed the player and some of the movies. But content is the key and I found myself buying crap like Serenity and I was disapointed with some stuff like Apollo 13. I realized that if I wanted all of my favorite movies that Blu Ray was the way so my HD collection Hit Ebay and Ive never looked back since. I didnt want to go half ass with one or the other and I felt Blu Ray had the advantage so Ive been going all out and have loved every second of it.

I am. I had the Toshiba A-1 and almost 30 HD Dvds. And Ive now done the Conversion. I enjoyed the player and some of the movies. But content is the key and I found myself buying crap like Serenity and I was disapointed with some stuff like Apollo 13. I realized that if I wanted all of my favorite movies that Blu Ray was the way so my HD collection Hit Ebay and Ive never looked back since. I didnt want to go half ass with one or the other and I felt Blu Ray had the advantage so Ive been going all out and have loved every second of it.

I've been shooting this scenario back and forth in my mind for about a week now. I have an A2 and 20 HD DVDs....I am seriously considering the switch but I also might have the bucks for a PS3. I'm still just poking around these forums and asking opinions to see what fits me most.

Got a PS3 and about 12 Blu-rays. Love it! I researched the movies prior to purchase so I don't get a dud like Hitch or Fifth Element. All in all, the PS3 with the bluetooth remote make a great experience. Much better than the A1's quirky slowness or the Xbox 360's loudness! Still, I'm not much of a joiner so I'll stay format neutral for the time being.

Got a PS3 and about 12 Blu-rays. Love it! I researched the movies prior to purchase so I don't get a dud like Hitch or Fifth Element. All in all, the PS3 with the bluetooth remote make a great experience. Much better than the A1's quirky slowness or the Xbox 360's loudness! Still, I'm not much of a joiner so I'll stay format neutral for the time being.

I really don't find the 360 to be that load at all...I've seen a lot of people complain about it but I only hear it start up....after that I barely hear anything.

I've been shooting this scenario back and forth in my mind for about a week now. I have an A2 and 20 HD DVDs....I am seriously considering the switch but I also might have the bucks for a PS3. I'm still just poking around these forums and asking opinions to see what fits me most.
Hi, Matt. Is there any reason you don't want to support both formats? Other than the principal of the matter? I realize that some just don't want to have two players, though. Still, the best content selection will come from supporting both, of course.

Hi, Matt. Is there any reason you don't want to support both formats? Other than the principal of the matter? I realize that some just don't want to have two players, though. Still, the best content selection will come from supporting both, of course.

I can't speak for Matt, but the main reason I supported Blu-ray alone is that I will be able to get just about every HD-DVD on Blu-ray with the exception of Universal and right now, some music titles. Wasn't worth the player investment and HD-DVD movie purchases for me.

I just ordered the Samsung Blu ray player from *******, good price and a free movie and firmware disc included. I currently have an A1 & the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add on, and 60 HD-DVD's. I love HD-DVD and never had any real problems with my A1, little slow loading but the 360 add on is fairly fast. However, I wanted to experience what Blu Ray has to offer, and there are some movies that I wanted that won't come out anytime if ever ( Sony titles ) on HD-DVD. I suppose I'm really a lover of hidef above any format. I would have bought a playstation 3 but you can't find them anywhere around me, but then I decided I really didn't want another game system despite the great value of the ps3. I love my 360, and never owned a ps2, I prefer the games on Xbox & 360 more. I'm not sure who will win this format war, maybe a hybrid player might be the final outcome. Sony doesn't usually give on any of it's formats whether there is mass oppeal or not ( made beta for years after, MD, memory stick, etc ). I do think that for the average person to adopt a hidef format the will need to get their prices way down, maybe within $50 of sd-dvd. At this moment HD-DVD is moving more quickly in that direction, also the format seems more finalized than blu-ray, especially in the audio standards. However, we will have to see what happens, in the mean time I will just enjoy hidef in whatever format I can get it in.

My plan was to buy an HD-A1 and then a PS3 to have total choice of films. However, just before I bought the PS3, I decided to return my A1 (quirky ass machine...) and switch to the A2. Well, the A2 was delayed past my PS3 purchase and now, I've been so impressed with Blu-Ray and the PS3, I haven't felt the need to jump back into HD-DVD - at least anytime soon. It's not worth it to me just for Universal. Instead, I'm going to watch where things go this coming year for HD-DVD before I make a decision.

Microsoft made the decision for me with the $199 360 add on. Initially I was a Blu-ray fan, but only for its higher capacity (the talk of 4 layer BD and all that), but since both formats are identical in video and audio it was the price that got me to jump. I've got nothing against Blu-ray and would have jumped onboard for the right price, like rr6966, I love both formats because they bring us High Def Movies. I do find it sad that we are in this most pointless format war.

By "convert" I mean someone who whole heartedly supported HD DVD. gave up on it, and bought into Blu Ray? Just curious...Sell the HD DVD already...There I made up your mind for you...or support both and enjoy the ride. :D

I can't speak for Matt, but the main reason I supported Blu-ray alone is that I will be able to get just about every HD-DVD on Blu-ray with the exception of Universal and right now, some music titles. Wasn't worth the player investment and HD-DVD movie purchases for me.

I have the same reasons. HD-DVD small exclusive selection (relatively speaking compare to Blu-ray's) does not warrant an extra player.

Here's from a blu-ray fan perspective, why would I wanna support both formats? When supporting both formats would only prolong the war, thus slowing down the BD penetration. The sooner the war ends the better. Studio would announce more new releases faster without any hesitation. Once the war is won, Universal will come around, so what's the point of wasting my money?

At current the status quo, blu-ray market will survive on its own, enough studio supports, enough CE support, rapid BD players penetration with PS3, constant flow of blockbuster line-ups.

I have the same reasons. HD-DVD small exclusive selection (relatively speaking compare to Blu-ray's) does not warrant an extra player.Subtrack titles from Warner and Paramount available on both formats and HD-DVD still has more titles available than Blu-ray. Hence, HD-DVD still has more exclusives as of 12/30/2006. I do think this will change in the next six months, assuming HD-DVD doesn't announce more studio support at its press event on January 7.

I have an A1 that I bought off of ebay for $300, just got the PS3 at Best Buy for $500, so for $800 I am format neutral. I think this is a steal for new bleeding edge technology, but what do I know.

Subtrack titles from Warner and Paramount available on both formats and HD-DVD still has more titles available than Blu-ray. Hence, HD-DVD still has more exclusives as of 12/30/2006.


That's a worthless argument. it will be invalid in the next few days

I'm a format neutral person ( I own more formats that most ever known existed, from Edison talking machines, Pathe records, 2" Quad video, HDVS, LD, VHD, CED, Beta, MD, DAT, DCC, D-VHS, W-VHS, UMD, etc.), but I think I'm gonna side with BD and have a ever so slight bias for BD. But that's for one reason and one only. Hardware. On my setups, while BD is far from perfect, I've had way too many little playback bugs with the A1/XA1/A2, that may be solved with a future updates. While I had bugs with BD, they were never in re: to playback of the format. I have about 70 or so HD DVD's. So temp, I doing BD only. I will most like buy a XA2... when things are a bit more settled and get rid of some G1 machines. The "chunkiness" of the HD DVD players that some report don't bother me all too much.

Oddly enough If HD DVD looses this format war I will most like buy more used cheap HD DVD disc that people get rid of for BD. Same goes for BD, if it's the loser. But I doubt that will happen soon.

So I doubt I'm a convert. HD DVD rules... but so do BD!

It does seem that blu-ray has a lot more exclusive titles coming out in the next few months. February looks really good! The fact that MPEG2 video has looked really good on blu-ray and that titles that are on both hd-dvd and blu-ray look identical makes it a tough road for hd-dvd. They need to release the LOTR and The Matrix trilogies. I think that will sell a lot of hd-dvd players. Forget Kong, pack in The Fellowship of the Ring with the 360 drive and watch them fly off the shelves!

The crazy thing is, the best way to get into high definition video is to buy a game console. Who would have thought that 5 years ago. I used to dispise playing dvd's on the XBox and PS2.

I used to be a HD-DVD supporter and owned the HD-XA1 and sold it because i couldn't resist the price i was offered by my friend.

I waited for the 2nd generation Toshiba to arrive and it was delayed and got fed up waiting so i ordered the Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player instead and haven't looked back.

The Sony player is so much nicer than the Toshiba i had.

I used to be a HD-DVD supporter and owned the HD-XA1 and sold it because i couldn't resist the price i was offered by my friend.

I waited for the 2nd generation Toshiba to arrive and it was delayed and got fed up waiting so i ordered the Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player instead and haven't looked back.

The Sony player is so much nicer than the Toshiba i had.

You haven't used the A2 then. Speaking of delays wasn't the Sony delayed 4 or 5 times. The A2 was delayed 3 or 4 weeks.

You haven't used the A2 then. Speaking of delays wasn't the Sony delayed 4 or 5 times. The A2 was delayed 3 or 4 weeks.

more then that for the A2, and what about the first generation HD DVD? it was something like a 9 months delay

Too many mistakes and a history of failed propriatory formats scare me form Blu-ray. If someone told me a year ago that Blu-ray would be far behind HD DVD in sales after the launch of the PS3 and many different stand alone players, I'd never believe it. Factor in Sony's depleted bank account and it's pretty clear Blu-ray won't be around for long.
I suspect it won't be long before the studios start releasing on HD DVD.

Universal and Fox have too many must have titles and neither ship is going to sink any time soon.....this means two players for my household.

Too many mistakes and a history of failed propriatory formats scare me form Blu-ray. If someone told me a year ago that Blu-ray would be far behind HD DVD in sales after the launch of the PS3 and many different stand alone players, I'd never believe it. Factor in Sony's depleted bank account and it's pretty clear Blu-ray won't be around for long.
I suspect it won't be long before the studios start releasing on HD DVD.

So, are you saying that you expected Blu-ray to be far ahead 6 weeks after the launch of the PS3, and 3 weeks after the launch of Sony's BD player? Toshiba launched last spring! Also, if it's so clear Blu-ray won't be around for long, why are so many HD-DVD supporters buying blu-ray players? Surely they wouldn't do that if they thought Blue-ray wasn't going to be around for long? And, if it "won't be long before the studios start releasing on HD-DVD," why haven't any of them announced a switch? Why keep it secret?

Mark - I'm afraid your seriously self-deluded. At this point, HD-DVD would be more aptly considered the "proprietary" format. With Toshiba going it alone, and all but one studio supporting the other format, how can you possibly envision a scenario where Blu Ray "won't be around".

The following things would have to happen for Blu Ray to go away:

- The PS3 goes away.
- Sony switches to HD-DVD
- Fox switches to HD-DVD
- Lionsgate switches to HD-DVD
- Pioneer switches to HD-DVD
- Samsung switches to HD-DVD
- Disney switches to HD-DVD
- Panasonic switches to HD-DVD

The following things need to happen for HD-DVD to go away:

- Toshiba switches to Blu Ray
- Universal switch to Blu Ray


Which of these scenarios is more likely to occur, would you think?

I got nothing against the underdog in a good fight, but some people really need to snap out of their spell.

Why are so many people blindly defending the Toshiba/Microsoft duo? A combination of the richest man in the world and a Japanese electonics company that was indicted for espionage against the United States in the 80s (http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/1987-7/1987-07-01-NBC-10.html)?

Are these really the people we need to be sticking up for with our last breath?

What Innerloop is trying to say in the previous post is that Toshiba and Universal by themselves have been able so far to sell more discs than Sony and the rest of the companies that are behind BluRay. Then, imagine what would happen if Hd DVD would have more support.
Therefore, it is still too early to predict what can happen here. As he said it in the post...AT THIS POINT>>>>

Not another BD vs HD-DVD thread.

It's about converts. I really don't imagine you would have too many one way or the other. It wouldn't make much sense to just up and sell your player and your entire movie collection to switch.

By the way I have a BD player to play the handful of exclusive blu-ray titles, however, my HD-DVD to BD ration is around 8 to 1. I buy on HD-DVD if I can. I just prefer it over BD most of the time.

By "convert" I mean someone who whole heartedly supported HD DVD. gave up on it, and bought into Blu Ray? Just curious...

I definately am a "convert." Made the switch around 3 weeks a go and feel very Confident about my choice.

I have however been taking a beating from the HD-DVD Fanboys, but oh well, I will keep defending my position.

I feel the PS3 is the best HD Player on the market.

~Josh

You know what the thing that got me thinking about the switch....I see a lot of HD DVD only supporters say they will never support BD and then out of nowhere a thread pops up, "I bought the PS3, I'm now format nuetral." On the other hand, BD fans seem so devout, I hardly see anyone going format neutral...why would they need to? for universal and weinstein?

From my perspective only....and only having a A2 right now...I need BD exclusives more than I need HD DVD exclusives.

Good point, Matt.

I also noticed that pretty much EVERY person posting such a story has picked up a PS3.

This leads me to believe that a good chunk of the initial HD-DVD supporters are, as other have theorized, very price-sensitive buyers. Which is understandable, if you have two nearly identical products, one of which is $1000 and the other is $500, there's a clear motivation to buy the cheaper one and fight for its survival.

But now that PS3 has bridged the price gap, mostly, a few people are crossing that bridge. And once over the bridge they pretty much seem to agree that the two systems are about the same, but with different software options and different hardware quirks.

Toshiba is playing their cards right - if they can continue to keep a price gap between themselves and Blu Ray, they'll continue to pick up a segement of customers who are more price-sensitive. But that strategy can't last forever. Once the player prices/parts drop a bit more, the difference between $200 and $250 isn't could to sway people like $500 vs. $1000 did.

The best thing Blu Ray camp could do now is find a way to get a super-cheap player on the market to blunt that advantage. Because once that is eliminated then the software support is the issue that will sway people most

..Also - this "HD-DVD owners are picking up cheap PS3s" might explain the odd effect seen on the Amazon tracking data. At around the time of PS3 release (and XBOX add-on release), HD-DVD sales started a gradual decline while Blu Ray sales were flat. Look at the period from around 11/1 to 12/1.

Possibly this effect was HD-DVD owners getting their first BD player (PS3) and ramping up their libraries, which meant spending less than they had previously on HD-DVDs. Hard to say really, but it definitely surprised me that HD-DVD software went down during that period (its bounced back now, but I don't have a theory for that!)

I did buy a PS3 for games and blu-ray playback, but I am not a convert. I have the A1 and it is slow, but I have never had any playback problems. Most of the HD-DVD releases are quality transfers. Personally, Sony has irritated me in the past with their over hyped promises about their soon to be released or newly released products. The initial blu-ray releases were sub par and the players were over priced, so I bought into HD-DVD. The newer blu-ray releases are finally on par with HD-DVD and I was able to buy a unit that could play games and blu-ray discs for $599, so I bought into blu-ray. I want quality releases of movies in high def regardless of the format. I don't care about the specs of the format unless they translate into higher quality transfers of the movies. Forgive me if I am a bit skeptical of Sony's promises.

An honest opinion from someone that has bought into both formats.

Flame suit on.

Microsoft made the decision for me with the $199 360 add on. Initially I was a Blu-ray fan, but only for its higher capacity (the talk of 4 layer BD and all that), but since both formats are identical in video and audio it was the price that got me to jump. I've got nothing against Blu-ray and would have jumped onboard for the right price, like rr6966, I love both formats because they bring us High Def Movies. I do find it sad that we are in this most pointless format war.

I am pretty much this exactly as well. I went the cheapest way for now and it is working well for now.

And for the format war, for all we know one side is in it not to win it but hope both sides fail. So which side is that? My guess is HD DVD, its main goal was to be there to deter their competition to be successful. Like DVDA and SACD, sometimes a good business move is to make sure your competitors plans fail.

Good point, Matt.

I also noticed that pretty much EVERY person posting such a story has picked up a PS3.

This leads me to believe that a good chunk of the initial HD-DVD supporters are, as other have theorized, very price-sensitive buyers. Which is understandable, if you have two nearly identical products, one of which is $1000 and the other is $500, there's a clear motivation to buy the cheaper one and fight for its survival.

But now that PS3 has bridged the price gap, mostly, a few people are crossing that bridge. And once over the bridge they pretty much seem to agree that the two systems are about the same, but with different software options and different hardware quirks.


Toshiba is playing their cards right - if they can continue to keep a price gap between themselves and Blu Ray, they'll continue to pick up a segement of customers who are more price-sensitive. But that strategy can't last forever. Once the player prices/parts drop a bit more, the difference between $200 and $250 isn't could to sway people like $500 vs. $1000 did.

The best thing Blu Ray camp could do now is find a way to get a super-cheap player on the market to blunt that advantage. Because once that is eliminated then the software support is the issue that will sway people most

I agree with a lot of that. Who is the one company that could put out a cheap player? IMO it's only Sony because they have the hardware and studios under their own belt and they already did that with the PS3. Pioneer, Panasonic, insert CE name here cannot do this as they have no other path of income from BD other then selling the player, so a profit must exist there. MS in other ways have done the same thing with their player. Sony and MS are on a whole different playing plane then anyone else as they have their eyes set on multiple prizes and multiple incomes from other avenues.

I agree with a lot of that. Who is the one company that could put out a cheap player? IMO it's only Sony because they have the hardware and studios under their own belt and they already did that with the PS3. Pioneer, Panasonic, insert CE name here cannot do this as they have no other path of income from BD other then selling the player, so a profit must exist there. MS in other ways have done the same thing with their player. Sony and MS are on a whole different playing plane then anyone else as they have their eyes set on multiple prizes and multiple incomes from other avenues.

No, I don't think Sony is the one to do it. Their whole brand these days is like Apple - they focus on design and image, and less on the lowest-cost player.

Even Samsung which always USED to be focused on the "low-cost" market has been moving themselves up-market.

Of the current stated supporters of Blu Ray the most low-cost oriented is probably "LG". But even cheaper would be to sign up one of the Chinese manufacturers who stack up those $30 DVD players at Target or Costco (whose names escape me).

If they cut a lot of corners - like take off all the Analog outputs (like Toshiba did with A2) and go for a lower build quality, optical-output only (no digital coax), cheapo remote, and an uglier more generic chassis, there's no reason they can't build a box with an MSRP of $500 and a street price in the range of the A2.

Cost of goods for a low-end HD-DVD and low-end BD should be the same. The only thing Toshiba can do that a BD company can't do is subsidize, and they don't seem to be doing that any longer (at least not significantly) with the A2.

Hopefully someone will announce an A2-level player for BD at CES.

I am pretty much this exactly as well. I went the cheapest way for now and it is working well for now.

And for the format war, for all we know one side is in it not to win it but hope both sides fail. So which side is that? My guess is HD DVD, its main goal was to be there to deter their competition to be successful. Like DVDA and SACD, sometimes a good business move is to make sure your competitors plans fail.

I agree - MSFT has no presence in HD-DVD hardware and not much skin in the game for the software, so why are they do interested? A cynical person would think they are trying to accelerate the death of packaged optical media so people will transition more quickly to downloadable content (ie: XB360).

They are the only player in the game playing both sides of the fence - they are running an HD movie download service simultaneously to pushing the HD-DVD optical format. No one else (that I can think of) has their allegiances between packaged & downloaded media so split.

You are a paranoid man, but make a good point, HS!

If they cut a lot of corners - like take off all the Analog outputs (like Toshiba did with A2) and go for a lower build quality, optical-output only (no digital coax), cheapo remote, and an uglier more generic chassis, there's no reason they can't build a box with an MSRP of $500 and a street price in the range of the A2.


But BD already has a player at $500 (and it is Sony) that didn't cut much of any corners. IMO there is no reason a PS3 20 can't be considered a $500 standalone player. Use it for only BD and there ya go.

On the MS points... To be more precise they have different levels of success and I'm sure they would be happy to find out HD DVD won and their 360 w/HD DVD add-on was the big winner in all of this. I'm sure they have thought of that and have that as a goal. But it was probably more out there as a "nice to have" goal. The main goal perhaps was just to muddy the water enough for the competition to fail. Toshiba and Universal could also be playing this role as well. Universal and Toshiba are also huge adversaries to Sony and what they represent to their own business's. So look at it, you have the team of MS/Toshiba and Universal, which each one of those main competitors is Sony. Coincidence? They probably are there with the first main goal to see Sony fail and everything else good is cake.

I think MS is casting their hooks into both downloads and optical to see which one produces the best return. We've had Pay Per View for many years and that didn't kill DVD. People like to own their content.

The day I can buy high quality HD movies via download and keep them (like itunes) and put them on a large home media server (think giant Ipod), that's when movie downloads will take off. We still do not have the bandwith or the storage space for this to work like it works for music.

I think MS is casting their hooks into both downloads and optical to see which one produces the best return.

Or if simply both are profitable both win!

We've had Pay Per View for many years and that didn't kill DVD. People like to own their content.

There's a reason for that - see below.

The day I can buy high quality HD movies via download and keep them (like itunes) and put them on a large home media server (think giant Ipod), that's when movie downloads will take off.

Not likely. I'd wager it will have a short-term peak, then as the first generation of hardware starts to die, resulting in people losing 'soft' content that they've paid for, the masses will rapidly switch back to purchasing 'hard' media.

The trouble is that the hardware companies have moved towards building short-lifespan products. 30 years ago, the expected lifespan of TV was 10 years at a minimum, with quite a few companies touting a 20-year lifespan. Now, with the heavier marketing focus, CE products are designed with shorter lifespans, and are intended to be replaced with the 'next generation' every 3-5 years.

Unfortunately, this will not work very well with the idea of 'soft' content. For myself, I always expect to have the disc (or whatever the hard format becomes). This way, no matter what happens to my player (PC, CD player, iPOD, media server, whatever), I can always recover the content I've paid for.

We need a site like nexgenwars.com for blu-ray vs. hd-dvd to measure how many stand-alone hd-dvd or blu-ray players have been sold and movies, that'll give us a little bit of a forecast of things to come.

I guess I'm a half convert, lol...

I originally bought into HD-DVD because of the price point of the HD-A1. Since buying into it I have over 56 HD-DVD's and have enjoyed every minute of owning it. Once I saw titles coming out on Blu-ray that I actually wanted I told myself that I would go dual format as soon as I could find a good player with price point close to what I paid for my A1. Well low & behold being a gamer as well the 60gb PS3 filled that niche for me perfectly. I picked up the Bluetooth remote and have 15 BR discs and a bunch on pre-order. The PS3 at $600 was a great price in my book and it is great being Dual-format.

I'd recommend the PS3 to ANY HD-DVD fanatic as a way of going dual-format. I think folks need to get over the "A Game machine can't be a good piece of HT equipment" because so far the PS3 is awesome.

Same with BR fans though, I'd whole heartedly recommend the $499 HD-A2 as a cheap way to get in on HD-DVD and/or if you have a 360 then WHY NOT get the HD-DVD add-on and get on the Dual-Format bandwagon!!!

Well, I still think that a game machine can't be my ultimate platform for my home theater set up. But I do think it can be a good stop gap measure until a dedicated BD player worth the price is available. Hence my plan to by a PS3. Both the Tosh HD-A1 and the PS3 will be my ticket to get in the game while waiting for the formats to mature.

funny thing about this post is a few weeks ago I was thinking the same thing.
Why am I leaning towards BD if HDDVD (XA1) was my first player?
I think it has to do with the fact BD is a better technology in a long run, support of so many electronics companies and studios.
But what really turned me off, was the HDDVD fan boys bashing the BD and Sony and in the process insulting so many people like me which was supporting both formats.
I had a post removed just because I asked in the HDDVD area if there would be a chance the the XA1 be able to output 1080p/24fps like some BD players do with a firmware or am I going to have to spend another $1,000 for the XA2.
It is fanny how HDDVD supporters talk about BD be to expensive, but to get HDDVD to match what BD can do you have to get the XA2.\
I still have my XA1 and probably will keep it, it makes my rack looking good :)

Reverse convert...not me but my cousin did...took back his Samsung BD and bought a Toshiba A2...though he is considering a PS3 sometime in the future. :D

Interesting thread. I'm considering supporting Blu-ray too. I'll probably go the PS3 route though.

funny thing about this post is a few weeks ago I was thinking the same thing.
Why am I leaning towards BD if HDDVD (XA1) was my first player?
I think it has to do with the fact BD is a better technology in a long run, support of so many electronics companies and studios.
But what really turned me off, was the HDDVD fan boys bashing the BD and Sony and in the process insulting so many people like me which was supporting both formats.
I had a post removed just because I asked in the HDDVD area if there would be a chance the the XA1 be able to output 1080p/24fps like some BD players do with a firmware or am I going to have to spend another $1,000 for the XA2.
It is fanny how HDDVD supporters talk about BD be to expensive, but to get HDDVD to match what BD can do you have to get the XA2.\
I still have my XA1 and probably will keep it, it makes my rack looking good :)

I have to agree with you. When I made the switch to Blu-ray, I was treated like crap from the HD-DVD fanboys, people who once treated me great. You raise a few questions to them and they completely spaz out and think there is some underlining agenda.

~Josh

I was very heavily leaning towards HDdvd. Even ordered one through that bogus Adam/Eve discount. (Thanks for the junkmail guys which I specifically indicated that I DIDN"T want and still keeps coming...) But in the last month I just saw all of these titles scheduled for release on BD and heard crickets chiprping from HDdvd land. They had the momentum, the better price, the geek buzz and now they are just doing jack. Say whatever the hell you want about Sony but they are TRYING. They are advertising the HELL out of the PS3 and BD.
People are going "wooHoo! They can't keep the new Hddvd players in stock at BB..!" Sure, because they are only sending 5 or so to BB at a a time... Not that hard to sell out. Toshiba/microsoft needs to get more manufacturers on board and start spending some $ for endcaps and advertising. It really seems like Microsoft now wants this to be a stalemate and both formats to tank so that they can go forward with the HD On Demand thingy. The only way these formats will survive and flourish and not become DVD-A/SACD all over again is if the masses eventually jump on board. Like it or not Sony is making the effort. HDdvd is just in limbo right now.
And what happened to the new releases? They just dried up. I feel much more confident going BD now because I look at that list and think, "wow. Those are some damn good titles coming..."
Also for the same price as a HD-a2 I have a kickass videogame system. Might not mean much to some but I have been having a blast playing the PS3 game demos. Sure, you can say the xbox360, add on combo thing is comparable but no HDMI? Crap Audio with the DD+ tracks being compressed all to hell and 2 pieces instead of one..? Ummm, no thanks.
Will BD win? Will it be a disaster? I don't know. But they are now playing the game and it looks like playing to win. Can't say the same for HDdvd.
but what do I know?
Just my opinion.

:) d

The opposite for me. I sold the Samsung BD player and most of my BD movies in order to help finance a projector purchase. My original plan was to buy another BD player at the earliest opportunity, but the recent events with CJPlay and the overall arrogance of the BD supporters makes me less likely to buy another player anytime soon. I'm pretty fed up with the attitude that BD should receive some kind of coronation as the next format and that HD DVD shouldn't even exist(even though it has been consistently better and more economical from the beginning).
I'm sticking to my HDA1 for the time being, and will rent SD DVD's of films that only appear on BD for now.

I hear ya Larry.
My real reason was software. I see a bunch of titles anounced for BD and only 5 exclusive (universal) titles announced for HDdvd in the next 3+ months. It sucks that there is a war and that we as consumers have to choose sides. (I for one already have an Oppo player that is staying regardless for it's region-free capabilities and there is NO way in hell I am having 3 players hooked up. 2 is plenty...) So for me it is about what s most likely to have what I want to watch on it. As of now, I will miss out on one studio by going BD as opposed to many by going with HDdvd...

:)

I understand folks on this thread converting to Blu-ray. To each their own. Every decision is a valid one to the person making it. And the same applies going in the other direction. However, there are a lot of questionable opinions that have been presented and I'm just going to provide at least some counterpoint to these, IMO, flawed arguments.

supporting both formats would only prolong the war, thus slowing down the BD penetration. The sooner the war ends the better. Studio would announce more new releases faster without any hesitation. Once the war is won, Universal will come around, so what's the point of wasting my money?

You realize that the exact same argument can be made going in HD DVD's direction. If everyone wanted Blu-ray to go away very quickly, all they would have to do right now is stop purchasing Blu-ray releases. Within a short period of time, all studios would be on board. This have been proven to be so in the past. The studios will follow the money. That is their primary motivation.


At current the status quo, blu-ray market will survive on its own, enough studio supports, enough CE support, rapid BD players penetration with PS3, constant flow of blockbuster line-ups.

Same argument for HD DVD. If there were no Blu-ray sales, there will be no releases, and no reason to make players.


The fact that MPEG2 video has looked really good on blu-ray

Not consistently so. This is always a debateable point because MPEG2 is a space hog compared to the modern codecs. However, I'm not interested in starting a debate, only in saying that this particular argument is not supported by a significant number of enthusiasts.

So, are you saying that you expected Blu-ray to be far ahead 6 weeks after the launch of the PS3, and 3 weeks after the launch of Sony's BD player? Toshiba launched last spring!

Blu-ray has had a huge advertising advantage for a while now. It has a huge CE advantage. It has a huge install base advantage and studio andvantage. Plus the numerous PR, press releases, etc. have given Blu-ray a big advantage that has nowhere materialized in where sales should have been. To say that Blu-ray is underachieving in sales is an understatment and considering how lop-sided the playing field is and has been for Blu-ray for a while now, it's somewhat disingenuous to keep mentioning Toshiba's "head" start" as though that is somehow an excuse for Blu-ray's relatively mediocre market performance.

The following things would have to happen for Blu Ray to go away:

- The PS3 goes away.
- Sony switches to HD-DVD
- Fox switches to HD-DVD
- Lionsgate switches to HD-DVD
- Pioneer switches to HD-DVD
- Samsung switches to HD-DVD
- Disney switches to HD-DVD
- Panasonic switches to HD-DVD

The following things need to happen for HD-DVD to go away:

- Toshiba switches to Blu Ray
- Universal switch to Blu Ray


Which of these scenarios is more likely to occur, would you think?

It's not relevant. If either format goes away, everyone will be on-board with the other.

But now that PS3 has bridged the price gap, mostly, a few people are crossing that bridge.

IMO there is no reason a PS3 20 can't be considered a $500 standalone player.

For soem AVSer's, perhaps, but when I'm in BB and CC, the only Blu-ray players I see in the video player/TV sections are the stand-alones. The general public looking for a HighDef player, at least in these stores, are not seeing PS3's hooked up to the big screen TV's. Maybe in some other stores, but I can't comment on that.

The best thing Blu Ray camp could do now is find a way to get a super-cheap player on the market to blunt that advantage

And the best thing Toshiba could do is make a 3G stand alone player for under $150.

Jeff, you apparently don't understand that the point of the thread isn't HD-DVD vs Blu-ray.

Jeff, you apparently don't understand that the point of the thread isn't HD-DVD vs Blu-ray.

I read the whole thread. It quickly became more or less another format war thread in which several people were justifying their decisions going in either direction. I try to make the theme of my posts in response to the spirit of the thread, not the title. But I agree with you that the point of the thread should NOT have been about HD DVD vs Blu-ray, but that ship sailed early on. And anyway, don't you think it would awfully hard to make a thread about why you would convert from one format to another, and not have it become somewhat argumentative since people will invariably give their reasons and those reasons will invariably be worth discussing? :)

well it would pretty silly asking if people converted from one format to another and didn't expect them to list their reasons why, no...? I don't think my posts or reasoning was "warlike" for one. I didn't scream "HDdvd SUCKS!!" "BD RULES" or anything...

:)

I made the jump to format neutral through the 360 and the PS3. I feel like no matter what happens, I am covered. Every piece of hardware I own, save the 360 drive, will be in use until the next big thing.

I feel like $200 on the drive was a slim investment in HD DVD goes down the tubes and I will still use it with the HD DVDs I purchased. If BD fails I still have a great gaming rig. That was the only way I would get into the mix...I wouldn't buy a $500 to $1000 doorstop. Now I am in HD heaven and lovin it!

My real reason was software.


The two titles that are BD exclusive that I really want are CASINO ROYALE and THE PRESTIGE. Hell, by the time both are released, I'll probably have already broken down and purchased another player.

'm a format neutral person .
I have the toshiba HD DVD player and now 2 PS3's 60GB .
both connected to my 60" XBR2 and i am in HD heaven.
just bought 6 BLURAY titles .

Life is good thank u god

The Crow and Bram Stoker's Dracula among others swayed me.
Oh and those little ALIEN films if they could get to them...

;)

But content is the key and I found myself buying crap like Serenity...

How dare you call Serenity crap in any format.

The two titles that are BD exclusive that I really want are CASINO ROYALE and THE PRESTIGE. Hell, by the time both are released, I'll probably have already broken down and purchased another player.

so you better start saving, The Prestige is out in Feb and Casino Royal in March 2007 ;)

exactly.
Serenity rocks.
Got an 81% on Rottentomatoes.com with 87% Cream of the crop critics positive.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/serenity/

Pretty damn good if you ask me...

I am in both camps as well. However, MS needs to fix the audio issue or all of my future movie purchases will be BD unless it is a top tier Universal release like Harry Potter, Matrix, Back to the Future, etc.

How dare you call Serenity crap in any format.

sorry but that is just my opinion. Ive tried to like that movie but it is really lame. If you like it great. I know there are others that do too. That is what is great about movies is we all can have our own opinions.

...all of my future movie purchases will be BD unless it is a top tier Universal release like Harry Potter, Matrix...

Those are Warner releases, and will be out on BD as well.

I am in both camps as well. However, MS needs to fix the audio issue or all of my future movie purchases will be BD unless it is a top tier Universal release like Harry Potter, Matrix, Back to the Future, etc.

Matrix and Harry Potter are Warner.

Harry Potter is even featured shortly in blu-ray TV commercial, here
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Video_Clips/High-Def_Disc_Marketing/Video:_New_Blu-ray_TV_Commercial/391

The opposite for me. I sold the Samsung BD player and most of my BD movies in order to help finance a projector purchase. My original plan was to buy another BD player at the earliest opportunity, but the recent events with CJPlay and the overall arrogance of the BD supporters makes me less likely to buy another player anytime soon. I'm pretty fed up with the attitude that BD should receive some kind of coronation as the next format and that HD DVD shouldn't even exist(even though it has been consistently better and more economical from the beginning).
I'm sticking to my HDA1 for the time being, and will rent SD DVD's of films that only appear on BD for now.What happen to CJPlay? What am I missing here.

What happen to CJPlay? What am I missing here.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=777872

The opposite for me. I sold the Samsung BD player and most of my BD movies in order to help finance a projector purchase. My original plan was to buy another BD player at the earliest opportunity, but the recent events with CJPlay and the overall arrogance of the BD supporters makes me less likely to buy another player anytime soon. I'm pretty fed up with the attitude that BD should receive some kind of coronation as the next format and that HD DVD shouldn't even exist(even though it has been consistently better and more economical from the beginning).
I'm sticking to my HDA1 for the time being, and will rent SD DVD's of films that only appear on BD for now.

deprive yourself due to the attitude of some schmucks online? Wow...that makes absolutely no sense. If that was the case, i'd have never bought HDDVD and missed out on nearly 30 Universal titles I own & enjoy today. But instead I choose to put myself before some silly format war, or some electronics giants that view me as a $Dollar sign$

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=777872Holy ****...Don't have the time to read the entire thread...but I hope CJPlay comes back. :(

Even my wife like Serenity...silly people! Love ya!

Even my wife like Serenity...silly people! Love ya!

I rented Serenity from Netflix for a time killer and my wife and I ended up really liking it....so I bought it :)

Matrix and Harry Potter are Warner.

Harry Potter is even featured shortly in blu-ray TV commercial, here
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Video_Clips/High-Def_Disc_Marketing/Video:_New_Blu-ray_TV_Commercial/391


Thanks for the correction :)

I did used to own a HD-DVD player and realized how boring it will be only watching King Kong or Superman Returns all the time.

That's what HD-DVD offers, you are pretty much limited and dependant on what Universal releases.

Im leaning on bringing my xbox hd dvd back and getting a ps3.Ill still have my 360 for games and the ps3 for movies and games

I did used to own a HD-DVD player and realized how boring it will be only watching King Kong or Superman Returns all the time.

That's what HD-DVD offers, you are pretty much limited and dependant on what Universal releases.

So I guess you would feel the same way about BD? They both are studio-limited, and they both have about the same number of available titles, so how is that a decision-maker right now? (Serious question, not trying to start an argument...)

So I guess you would feel the same way about BD? They both are studio-limited, and they both have about the same number of available titles, so how is that a decision-maker right now? (Serious question, not trying to start an argument...)

yeah but except BD has a lot more studios behind it, Disney/FOX/MGM/Sony/LionsGate.

They may have the same number titles as of now, but BD has a lot more potential than HD-DVD

Trying to put HD-DVD studio on the the equal ground as BD studios is a silly idea ;)

I did used to own a HD-DVD player and realized how boring it will be only watching King Kong or Superman Returns all the time.

That's what HD-DVD offers, you are pretty much limited and dependant on what Universal releases.I don't see such comments help anyone. As noted above, the number of titles now available on HD-DVD and Blu-ray is comparable. You could just as easily say, "how boring it will be watching Black Hawn Down or Kingdom of Heaven all the time." It also ignores the fact that HD-DVD appears to have an exclusive on all Warner releases with interactivity for the next 4-6 months (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, etc), as well as films from the Weinstein Company.

Ultimately, it should come down to the titles you want to watch. If Battlestar Gallactica, Bourne Identity, The Mummy, and other such Universal franchises are important to you, or if you want such classics as Backdraft or Brokeback Mountain, or newer releases like Bobby, Man of the Year, The Good Shepherd, The Kingdom, and Breach, then you should care about access to those titles.

If you don't care about any Universal or Weinstein titles -- many of which offer the best PQ available on either format -- and are willing to wait an extra 4-6 months to experience some of Warner's releases with interactivity, then by all means, go with Blu-ray exclusively. However, in 2007, 2008, and perhaps beyond, I think most AVS members will benefit by having one player for each format.

I read the whole thread. It quickly became more or less another format war thread in which several people were justifying their decisions going in either direction. I try to make the theme of my posts in response to the spirit of the thread, not the title. But I agree with you that the point of the thread should NOT have been about HD DVD vs Blu-ray, but that ship sailed early on. And anyway, don't you think it would awfully hard to make a thread about why you would convert from one format to another, and not have it become somewhat argumentative since people will invariably give their reasons and those reasons will invariably be worth discussing? :)

you're the one turning it into a VS thread. the thread title specifically asks if there are any converts from hd dvd to BD, and of course these people are going to list their reasons why they switched.

I did used to own a HD-DVD player and realized how boring it will be only watching King Kong or Superman Returns all the time.

That's what HD-DVD offers, you are pretty much limited and dependant on what Universal releases.

That's true.....Blu-Ray has a lot more studio support but as of right now, I've been renting and purchasing more titles from HD-DVD than from Blu-Ray. Being limited or dependent might not be such a bad thing if those are the titles that you're interested in.

I converted 3 months ago when HD a significant titles lead over BD but a little research and a little patience in knowing that BD has a much much bigger arsenal at there disposal was good enough for me to convert. Each month BD has gained and now passed with the number of titles and that lead is gonna keep advancing.

deprive yourself due to the attitude of some schmucks online? Wow...that makes absolutely no sense. If that was the case, i'd have never bought HDDVD and missed out on nearly 30 Universal titles I own & enjoy today. But instead I choose to put myself before some silly format war, or some electronics giants that view me as a $Dollar sign$


I really don't feel that deprived. There are only one or two titles exclusive to BD that I really want right now. If the Star Wars films or something of that nature is announced for BD, then of course things will change.

I was firmly planted in the HD-DVD camp but purchased a PS3 over the weekend to play games and view Blu-Ray movies. I hate format wars so in order to keep it out of my own household, I purchased the PS3.

After viewing Stargate, Dinosaur and Click on Blu-Ray, I'm not completely impressed. The sharpness and contrasting don't look as good as HD-DVD. Click looked pretty good though.

In any case, I'm in with both formats so the war is over as far as I'm concerned. One thing I will say, I like the PS3. The disc loads really fast. I just need to pick up the remote for playing movies.

I did used to own a HD-DVD player and realized how boring it will be only watching King Kong or Superman Returns all the time.

That's what HD-DVD offers, you are pretty much limited and dependant on what Universal releases.
Well, there's an unbiased opinion (I guess you don't like Warner Bros movies, etc, etc). I keep reevaluating my Netflix queue as the best way to gauge claims of studio support advantages (the movies I want to see are the only measure important to me). I consistently find that 80% of the movies are available in both or neither format, 10% in BlueRay only, and 10% in HD-DVD only. So much for any studio advantage of one format over the other, at least at this point in time.

I am personally also a "convert".

I had originally purchased an Xbox360 with HD DVD add-on (in November for an amazing deal) due to not being able to get a PS3 at release, and to be honest, as of this moment, I still think the 360 is superior to the PS3 if you want, simply, a game system (note the "as of this moment") and for me it worked VERY well as a media hub. Using connect360 with my mac, I could stream all my music and picture content leaving my 360 hard drive space available.

However,

At the start of December I had the opportunity to purchase a Playstation 3 at retail price and I jumped all over the opportunity. As much as I wanted a gaming system, I also wanted a system which would allow me to play High Definition movies, and although the HD DVD add-on for 360 gave me this opportunity there were too many downsides. First the sound is awful, the movie selection for HD DVD is NOT conducive to my viewing as the only movie I actually cared for was Batman Begins compared to numerous on Blu Ray. In the end, titles on Blu Ray seemed to be of much better quality than HD DVD to my eyes. I did a direct comparison of MI:III on my 360 and PS3 before returning my 360 and in both audio and video the Blu Ray, to me seemed SO much better.

In the end I had to deal with a small trade-off in that instead of streaming all my pictures and music to my system, I now have to download them to my system, something I'm sure will be fixed in the future whether directly from Sony or some third party software. However, this trade-off was one that I thought was worth it due to the ability to watch High Definition movies on a superior format to me.

So in the end, I guess what I'm saying is that I switched to Blu Ray for the better selection of movies, cheaper prices (forgot to mention it seems to me that overall Blu Ray is cheaper than HD DVD in my area), better quality picture from what I have seen (and I've watched HD DVD reference titles such as King Kong, MI:III etc. or Black Hawk Down, Transporter 2 etc. for Blu Ray)\ and problem with sound on 360 add-on.

Many people don't believe gaming systems will make a difference to which format wins in the end, but I think it will. I am the prime example. Playstation 3 has won me over, not necessarily for it's gaming abilities, because as of right now it pales in comparison to 360, but because of it's movie capabilities. The future is integration, that why people are buying flat panel monitors etc. to save space, hide the clutter and the wires and if you can get something like a PS3 which can be a dvd player, hi def movie player, game system, media hub etc., people are going to buy.

Thanks