OT: SageTV... anyone else using it? [Text View]

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dyker

12-31-06, 10:30 AM

Yep. Over Christmas break I've built a Sage Machine (on a tight budget IMO I might add) and if all works well with it, I'll be dropping one of my 5000 lifetime to ebay in a month or so to help pay for it.

Funny thing is, I've been *waiting* for Replay to do something HD cuz my wife and I are accustomed to, and prefer the simplicity of the replay interface. But the release of the ReplayP(o)C which doesn't even do HD and works with limited tuners was enough to push us away to another vendor. I'll admit I'm a computer guy but not really the type to try to "stuff" a system into the entertainment center (it actually fits and looks quite nice though). The sage interface leaves something to be desired compared to the elegant two two "guide" interface on the Replay... Sage has many menus and buttons to push to get thru the same thing (out of the box).

Sage is quite configurable though and although I haven't tried it yet, there are skins available from Sage that change the interface... something about a 169 skin I've read about there... but currently just trying plain vanilla to make sure my rig isn't buggy. Right now I'm a single tuner system... only HD, and it is... for lack of another word... stunning on my 50" sony rear projection. Single tuner at the moment again, to just keep it simple.

Because I would have appreciated a post like this, I'm posting the cost of what it took to do it from scratch (no existing hardware or parts):
299.98 refurbished Dell Dimension E521 Small Mini-Tower: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 3800+ (2.0 GHz)
160G HD
MCE 2005
1G DDR2 (2DIMMS)
16X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability
104.00 400G HD & SATA Cable
50.00 GeForce 7600GS $50 after rebate and Google Checkout.
25.00 IOGear USB Wireless Keyboard/Mouse combo after rebate
160.00 SageTV Software, Remote, A180 HD tuner, including shipping
15.00 BELKIN AV20604-07 PureAV Y Audio Cable, 7ft
15.00 DVI-->HDMI 10' Cable
----------------
$668.98 TOTAL COST SO FAR

The refurbished Dell above I had to refresh the Dell outlet for about a day off and on to find. I actually got two of them so they are out there (one for me, one for a friend). And the cost will increase as I increase the # of tuners in the box. Planning on one more HD and one SD to control my DirecTV receiver.

Curious if anyone else has taken the leap to SageTV?

dyker

01-09-07, 11:12 AM

bump... one more try to see if anyone else is using Sage. I posted during the Holidays b4... maybe not as much traffic.

SpaceCadet

01-09-07, 11:44 AM

dotheDVDeed

01-09-07, 12:42 PM

Slack

01-09-07, 01:17 PM

I'm using SageTV. I waited until DNNA pinched off the loaf that is ReplayTV PC Edition, and proceeded with plans for a HTPC w/ HDTV PVR.

SageTV won the battle against all comers. Not because it was the prettiest, or necessarily the best, but because once I got it properly configured the CPU load negligible while recording & watching HD. (Using nVidia Pure on an integrated videao card) Mediaportal & BeyondTV could not pull off that same trick.

Last night I received another PCI tuner card (VBOX DTA 150) so that I'll have a dual tuner HD Recorder. I was getting tired of Football padding causing conflicts with the other network's games. (Just in time huh? Guess I'll enjoy that benefit most next season)

Like you, I kept the standard SageTV skin for while until I was satisfied Sage was stable. I even backed up the SageTV recordings by recording the same thing on my replayTVs. It's been 4+ months now of daily use, and it's every bit as reliable as the RTVs. IMHO

The SageMC 16:9 skin is a step up from the stock and is worth the switch in my opinion. It was actually less painful to switch skins than I anticipated. What's more I added the web server plug-in, and the com-skip plug-in too. All with no ill effects on my percieved performance of glorious HD football.

I set the comm skip stuff to process overnight, and leave the auto advance feature off - it's not as reliable as RTVs, and it's too many clicks to turn it off (although I suppose I could add a mcrao to the remote). But the progress bar gets marked with the detected commercial breaks, and I can visually know anout where to land.

The web server is as full featured as I'd ever want, and has done everything asked of it. Both from within my house, and from work.

The ONLY beefs I have...
1) Twice I had recorded a show...specifically Fox's NFL Sunday, and the next week the 1:pm game - and had found that SageTV could not quick-skip into the program. And navigation command dumped me back at the beginning of the show. I filed a bug report after reading up on similar stuff on their forums. I installed an amp/splitter on my antenna line (ther split feeds a Samsung Tuner that the RTV uses). And have yet to encounter another 'glitched' recording.

2) I share the recordings directory on my network - and when I attempt the play the recordings over my LAN via VLC - I get no audio in VLC. However in Womble mpeg wizard I DO get audio. Heven't cared enough about that to follow up on it.

Clay Schneider

01-09-07, 02:15 PM

I'm waiting for Apple's iTV -- rechristened today as APPLE tv ($299)

I'm assuming it will be capable of playing MPEG2 video (both ReplayTV and HD)

I'm curious how it would handle multiple stream .ts files

TIM

I dont' see where iTV can 'record' anything... So, uh, what's the point?

Isn't it just yet another NAS device with video outputs, like many of the 'add-your-own-drive' units floating around for a year or more?

dotheDVDeed

01-09-07, 02:59 PM

I dont' see where iTV can 'record' anything... So, uh, what's the point?

Isn't it just yet another NAS device with video outputs, like many of the 'add-your-own-drive' units floating around for a year or more?

That's what a video server is for. I envision a huge computer with multiple ATSC/QAM tuners recording to HD arrays stuffed out of sight in a closet somewhere.

The appletv (formerly iTV) should be a "thin client" capable of playing high def MPEG video with dolby digital surround (unfortunately the early specs don't look good)

TIM

Slack

01-09-07, 04:45 PM

(unfortunately the early specs don't look good)

TIM

From the AppleTV product page...
Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

It aint gonna play native .TS files any time soon.

MPEG2 isn't even mentioned. and nothing is 60fps or 'progressive'. What gives?

dotheDVDeed

01-09-07, 05:20 PM

There's too much emphasis in the design of this AppleTV for purchasing content from the iTunes store.

Unfortunately Apple attempts to rewrite their history. They don't acknowledge that in the early years of the iPod (before the iTunes store) most content that people stored on their iPods were MP3s grabbed by Napster.

And it needs to be the same again now. AppleTV needs to be capable of playing divx files, some that might be obtained illicitly. :eek:

Only after you've sold enough AppleTVs can you set up an infrastructure that will cater to Joe Six-Pack--who takes the easy way and just coughs up a few bucks to get the latest movie.

TIM

sixt7gt350

01-10-07, 03:45 AM

There's too much emphasis in the design of this AppleTV for purchasing content from the iTunes store. <SNIP>

TIM

Exactly. Not even basic abilities to record OTA or cable? It's nothing more than a 40GB hard drive for storing iTunes purchases and they want $300 for it.

dyker

01-11-07, 10:38 AM

I'm not using Sage, but it looks like you built a good system for the money. I'm a little curious why, since you already had MCE 2005, you didn't skip Sage and the A180, and for about the same price, get the ATSC/clear-QAM dual-tuner HDHomeRun (true, the MCE support isn't quite ready, but very close)....

Well a couple reasons:

A friend of mine worked with MCE '05 and mentioned the bugs, and also mentioned that he didn't like the interface much. It also needs a SD tuner which at this point, I don't plan on using and don't want to pay for. (maybe the HD Homerun gets around this limitation somehow??).
For the price of $160 shipped I received a tuner card worth $80 and a remote control worth maybe $30... leaving me paying about $50 for the Sage license. After reviewing Sage, it seemed to have all the features of the replay (minus show sharing) either built in or available with extensions. I figured for $50 it was a descent deal and I wouldn't be forced to buy a SD tuner card that I probably wouldn't use anyways.
If I wanted more tuners, couldn't I use the HD Homerun in my existing setup?
I wanted it done now and as you mention... the HDHomerun support isn't quite there and I don't quite understand the HDHomerun but I did understand this setup with PCI tuner(s)... is there a FAQ website on the HDHomerun? :)
There seems to be a lot of support in different forums for Sage... and that is probably true for MCE as well.

I checked my resources while recording HD TV and use 1% of my processor (read.... NONE) while recording HD. While playing HD I use maybe 45%... don't know if this is normal or if settings will reduce it even further.

As mentioned, the motivation for my thread was to just let Replay SD users, of which I am STILL A MEMBER, that there is a somewhat cost-effective way to go for HD that gets you a lot of what you have now on Replay plus more. A lot of people build monster HTPC systems with fancy cases etc. The low-cost Dell works great. Expansion is somewhat limited with only 2 PCI and one PCI(e) left after putting in the video card. But you could put in dual tuner cards getting up to 6 tuners.

Last night I received another PCI tuner card (VBOX DTA 150) ...
Funny you should mention the VBOX 150... looking at that shipped for about $65. What did you end up paying and are you happy with the card?

The SageMC 16:9 skin is a step up from the stock and is worth the switch in my opinion....
Cool... so you are using this now and happy with it? I'll have to install it and check it out. Is there any skin that makes the program guide and recorded shows guide look more "replay like"?

Load negligible Using nVidia Pure ...
For playback what to you consider "negligible"? Was there a setting somewhere to tell Sage to use nVidia Pure? As mentioned above I have the GeForce 7600GS.

I set the comm skip stuff to process overnight, and leave the auto advance feature off
Which extension did you set up? What did you need to do in Sage to make it work? Was that pretty easy?

Slack

01-11-07, 11:43 AM

Funny you should mention the VBOX 150... looking at that shipped for about $65. What did you end up paying and are you happy with the card?

Cool... so you are using this now and happy with it? I'll have to install it and check it out. Is there any skin that makes the program guide and recorded shows guide look more "replay like"?

For playback what to you consider "negligible"? Was there a setting somewhere to tell Sage to use nVidia Pure? As mentioned above I have the GeForce 7600GS.

Which extension did you set up? What did you need to do in Sage to make it work? Was that pretty easy?

Card:
69 + Shipping from PC Alchemy
FYI: Instal Next - to last drivers, not the latest - I read forum post that stated the latest from Vbox breaks things.
(Install didn't go so well - took it back out, Think it was the lousy cable I stole form upstairs to cennect to the antenna, I make a proper coax & try again soon.)

Skin:
I dont; think there are an abundance of skin choices yet. From the forums it ssems SageMC is the most mature & best supported (It actaully started out as a Media Portal skin)

CPU Load:
Negligible while rcording means I really cannot distinguish it from back ground. Negligibly while playing back means 10-20% steady state (While concurrently recording) with spikes when I quick skip or instant replay.

Comm Skip:
I started with a sticky in the sageTV customizations forums for all the junk I added. It listed all the presumably most popular plugins. It's likely that I pulled the comm skip plug in from that thread too. But I can't remember. Then was another plug that allowed you to tell SageTV just when you wanted comm skip to run. I set it to the overnoight hours. Installation was pretty painless as I recall, but all the plug-in packages have pretty detailed instructino on the download pages.

dvasco

01-11-07, 10:27 PM

Just so GBPVR isn't forgotten, all the same can be done with it for free. Comskip is officially supported also.

SpaceCadet

01-12-07, 03:14 AM

A friend of mine worked with MCE '05 and mentioned the bugs, and also mentioned that he didn't like the interface much. It also needs a SD tuner which at this point, I don't plan on using and don't want to pay for. (maybe the HD Homerun gets around this limitation somehow??).
If I wanted more tuners, couldn't I use the HD Homerun in my existing setup?
I wanted it done now and as you mention... the HDHomerun support isn't quite there and I don't quite understand the HDHomerun but I did understand this setup with PCI tuner(s)... is there a FAQ website on the HDHomerun? :)
There seems to be a lot of support in different forums for Sage... and that is probably true for MCE as well.

Sage may well be the better DVR. My comments on MCE are strictly FYI. There are hacks to get around the analog tuner requirement. It has other bugs, but the problem with re-recording already recorded shows is going to be the deal-breaker for me if the Microbozos don't fix it soon (of course, if I use other software, I'll lose all of my recordings history). As for the UI, I don't know whether your friend had some expertise with the interface but simply didn't like it, or if it was like the situation that I frequently encounter in the Home Theater Computers forum--lots of people claim to be using MCE, but appear to be completely unaware of its most basic features. Personally, I like the DVR interface.
The HDHomeRun (http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun) doesn't quite support MCE yet, but the manufacturer, SiliconDust (http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/), and Sage have a partnership (http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/partners), so Sage is fully supported. There is a support forum (http://www.silicondust.com/forum/). The HDHomeRun is simply an external dual digital tuner that is connected via Ethernet instead of USB or FireWire. Besides simple hookup, this allows any computer on a LAN to access it.

jmv

01-12-07, 06:56 AM

After reading about the HDHomerun, I am now interested in adding HD PVR capability to my network (currently running Xlobby and XBMC on about 6 clients with a server running both the 3TB array / distrubution and my Audio/touchpanel for the kitchen).

I have a couple questions...it isn't clear to me what I need to use SageTV from a SW perspective...do I need to buy client SW for every PC? or do I get a site license? What about the server (which will only be used to record as it is 24x7 system now). Playback would all be on my HTPC's and office PC's. So what SW do I need on the server, and what SW do I need on each client (up to 5, 2 for sure). And how much is this going to cost me? Lastly, does SageTV store in just the normal HDTV file format, so I can play back using something like Theatertek, or does it proprietize the format and only sageTV can playback.

thanks for any help!

adone36

01-12-07, 12:14 PM

If i were to invest the effort, I think I would stay away from a Windows/Vista solution considering the huge involvement with DRM which can only lead to massive hassles in doing what must of us want to do with any content we capture. I think I would check on MythTV/Linux which everyone reports to be very robust.

zabolots

01-12-07, 02:02 PM

I think I would check on MythTV/Linux which everyone reports to be very robust.

Yeah, but what CableCard solutions exist (or have been announced) that will work with MythTV? To the best of my knowledge, there are none. If you want CableCard, you need Vista/MCE.

Of course I may be wrong...

adone36

01-12-07, 02:25 PM

And what are you options with CC? Cablecard labs says it will not support components, but will only certify complete solutions. I won't even begin to think about replacing any Replays unless I can view ANYTHING unrestricted on any TV in the house instantly.

So your solution amount to very overpriced, limited gear with the potential of crippling DRM restrictions.

slowbiscuit

01-12-07, 06:27 PM

Yep, right now with CC you're stuck with prebuilt (and likely expensive) systems.

That is, until the first BIOS or other firmware/hardware hack is released. Just wait if you want CC without restrictions - otherwise you're stuck with an overpriced Tivo S3 or an underfeatured cable co DVR.

adone36

01-13-07, 02:21 AM

You can't hack any of this new DRM.

slowbiscuit

01-13-07, 12:54 PM

CC on PC's will be hacked, it's just a matter of time. Might take a hardware mod though. Same with AACS.