Just thought i'd put in my two cents here as i was thinking of buying a DLP when my what do i want to spend an absurd amount of money on quest began.
DLP's do seem to have clear advantages over Plasma & LCD but if all the emerging technologies out there like SED actually become common are companies still going to make bulbs for the DLP's currently being sold now? i'm thinking in 3 or 4 years people with DLP's will have very large coffee tables...

You could be right or not. Newer technologies will ofcourse be coming along, and DLP is probably an interim technology, but I feel bulbs will be available for much longer than a few years if you take into account the number of DLPs being sold. For now DLP provides a beautiful picture for the best price. And you can put off things forever waiting for the next best thing. If you go buy a DLP you will love it and enjoy it. So why worry about everything we can't predict.

I wouldnt worry about it, DLP has been around since the mid 80's(in labs at TI). DLP has long since proven itself has a valuable TV design, The only other true competition to DLP is LCOS and it would be in the same situation of something drastic were to happen.

SED will be very expensive, so no, it will not put DLPs out of business. IMO, LCOS is a much better technology than RP LCD, yet LCD continues to sell. Bottom line is that there is no single technology that is best for everyone -- each technology has its own set of pros and cons, and will continue to sell.

Considering the risks of the other technologies (and there are some)....I'll take my chances with the DLP. Recent price drop on the Samsung HL-S4266W I just purchased, put it in the range of the JVC 27" I bought 10 years ago! ......and the picture is to die for...

Face it.....any technology is on borrowed time after a few years....I'm just glad i didn't spring for the Samsung at the beginning of football season. :D

I would say that flat panel price drops and screen size increases will be the doom of all RP technology. Right now you can find a 47" 1080p LCD for under $1900 and a $250 off coupon puts it under $1650. Later this month you will see a 60" 720p plasma for under $2500. That last one will really hurt the LCOS and DLP market.

First, I'll believe in SED when it actually gets here. It along with other panel technologies such as OLED have been promissed for years and have never made it to market (at least as a large panel - OLED is in some small pannels for portable devices now.)

That said, just because it's here doesn't mean it will close out a market. The RPTV microdisplay market has been growing fast, even when it takes a down turn, it will be several years until they slide into no existence. That will only be when flat panels of the same size get to a price point for the same quality such that it's no longer a finicial winner, that the Microdisplay will start sliding into drop in production and take several years to be eliminated.

That said, I still don't see bulb suppliers going completely away. Millions of Front Projection units are also sold, and that market is not likely do disappear as there are a lot more of them in work conference rooms than homes by far and they tend to get replaced every few years.

CCourtney

PS: There's still plenty of room to drop in cost in Microdisplays. I've been hearing Plasma is going to catch Microdisplays in cost within 6mo's for the past 3yrs. It still hasn't happened. :D

I would say that flat panel price drops and screen size increases will be the doom of all RP technology. Right now you can find a 47" 1080p LCD for under $1900 and a $250 off coupon puts it under $1650. Later this month you will see a 60" 720p plasma for under $2500. That last one will really hurt the LCOS and DLP market.

You want to go 60" 720p - Try HL-S6186W for $1200-$1400

You want to go 47" 1080p - Try one of a dozen 50" 1080p Microdisplays for $1200.

Not much of a squeeze play - yet.

Microdisplays will be around for at least another 5 years or so. They will just get cheaper every year while trying to stay competitive with flat panels.

Oh, and SED looks to be vaporware until they bring it to the consumer market.

I personally love the PQ of a DLP. LCD and Plasma just can't seem to touch it for me.

When my DLP's bulbs burns out 1-2 years from now, i'll pick up 2 bulbs, since the prices should be fairly reasonable for them at that time.

I understand that you can get a DLP like the HL-56186W for under $1500, but the under $2500 barrier for a 60" plasma will entice many away from that market because even though the DLP is cheaper, the plasma now becomes affordable for many mid price shoppers. And plasma still has that allure of being sexy and hip. Maybe not to some here but to the masses that always drooled over plasma when a 60" was in the $10K+ range. Same goes for comparing a 47" 1080p flat panel LCD and a 50" 1080p micro display. The flat panel just has more appeal, especially if the wife is involved in the buying decision.

I understand that you can get a DLP like the HL-56186W for under $1500, but the under $2500 barrier for a 60" plasma will entice many away from that market because even though the DLP is cheaper, the plasma now becomes affordable for many mid price shoppers.

Great Point. An even greater point, is the the microdisplay as the prices have come down, have brought the even larger and larger markets to HD. And still will for the next few years be driving the HD market.

CCourtney

I would say that flat panel price drops and screen size increases will be the doom of all RP technology. Right now you can find a 47" 1080p LCD for under $1900 and a $250 off coupon puts it under $1650. Later this month you will see a 60" 720p plasma for under $2500. That last one will really hurt the LCOS and DLP market.

No way you will find a current model 60" 720p/768p plasma under $2500 one month from now.

How can you say that when you can not find them under $4K now?

RPTV is on life support and the plug will eventually be pulled as flat panels are becoming more and more mainstream. Almost all future display technology that is development is some kind of flat panel design.

Go around the stores and you can see more and more flat panel as less RPTV's. DLP and the color wheel is quickly becoming passe'. Women love flat panels almost 100% over RPTV's. One more dramatic reduction in flat panel prices and RPTV 's will hasten the end of RPTV.

RPTV is on life support and the plug will eventually be pulled as flat panels are becoming more and more mainstream. Almost all future display technology that is development is some kind of flat panel design.

This is from the same person that has be saying that SED was going to take over everything (as the saying goes "consider the source"). From what I could tell in your other writings, you had blind faith in SED without ever having seriously evaluated one.

Go around the stores and you can see more and more flat panel as less RPTV's. DLP and the color wheel is quickly becoming passe'. Women love flat panels almost 100% over RPTV's. One more dramatic reduction in flat panel prices and RPTV 's will hasten the end of RPTV.

I have been doing that and what I have noticed is that the CRT of all forms have all but disappeared (except for a few low end models and a few HD models). The CRTs have been almost totally displaced by LCDs, but there also seems to be more RPTVs than ever before.

I think a lot of the RPTV market will hing on laser illumination which is being developed (publicly announced) by Novalux and Osram. Lasers will do more than give microdisplays great color space, they have the potential to make them very thin (due to the optical properties of the laser illumination) and more affordable. Lasers could result in a 60" RPTV at about 5" deep (close to an LCD or plasma of that size) and the price could be about $1,000, a point at which the manufacturing, handing, shipping, of greater than 50" LCD glass with illumination gets to be a problem. And they will weight about 1/2 as much and consume about 1/2 to 1/3rd the power. If the set is 5" thick, and the cost is right, will most consumers care if it is LCD, Plasma, or RPTV?

RPTV is on life support and the plug will eventually be pulled as flat panels are becoming more and more mainstream. Almost all future display technology that is development is some kind of flat panel design.

Go around the stores and you can see more and more flat panel as less RPTV's. DLP and the color wheel is quickly becoming passe'. Women love flat panels almost 100% over RPTV's. One more dramatic reduction in flat panel prices and RPTV 's will hasten the end of RPTV.

I'm seeing more and more Flat Panel's replacing direct view CRTs on the show room shelves. I'm not seeing them replace the the RPTV in the Big Screen market on the show room floor or in sells. I view big screen as the 48"+ market.

That said I do not disagree that at some point in the future, flat panels will push the RP Units out of the market.

And for one simple reason $$$. The reason why we're seeing accelerated grown in HD sets isn't because of improved technology, higher quality sets, better HD programming, more HD stations. It's because as the HD set's are pushed down in price, more people are ready to go buy them.

They're now to a point that the CRT RPTV sets can't stay competitive at a price point. The CRT RPTV is dying but you can still see a few sets out there in the $900-$1000 range for the 50-58" sets. They can't go any lower, the profit margine is gone. They're basically dead but will sell for another year or two. The guns on the guys are very expensive to manufacture.

The light engines on MicroDisplays are cheap by comparison. And the same light engines used in 46" units are being used in 62" units (but use a 120W UHP lamp instead of a 100W) but look at the differences in prices (it's mostly markup for a larger display) The screen and chasis increases in size don't make up the differences, and when the electronics are the same, you tell me what the extra cost is. This is the opposite on panels. There's a direct correlation in production cost between the size of the screen and the cost to manufacture.

The 'Sexy' factor as you apparently love to flaunt plays second fiddle to cost. I can see microdisplays playing for sub $1000 which is a large market threshold for big screens, but I don't see panels getting to that range within the next 2-3yrs even if SED does manage to finally get into mass production as has been promissed for way too long.

CCourtney

This is from the same person that has be saying that SED was going to take over everything (as the saying goes "consider the source"). From what I could tell in your other writings, you had blind faith in SED without ever having seriously evaluated one.

You seem gleeful enough to throw that in my face but you should be in mourning with me because SED would have delivered us into a new "golden era" of display technology.

I'm not satisfied with the state of display technology, it could be better :mad: :(

You seem gleeful enough to throw that in my face but you should be in mourning with me because SED would have delivered us into a new "golden era" of display technology.

I'm not satisfied with the state of display technology, it could be better :mad: :(We mourn the loss of family, friends, etc. Anyone who is mourning the loss of a TV technology needs a jolt back to reality. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong on the post i made about DLP Extinction. should have been more clear. as things stands right now if LED (or laser?) on DLP's doesn't grow much soon it will be too late. I agree DLP's have great quality but unless they move FAST and give options that give a longer life, its dead. As for SED, was just an example. Unfortunatly as promising as that seems it might go the way DLP is currently heading before it even gets started, all this talk of SED being the next big thing. All this talk about LED DLP's (or frikin laser) being the next big rebirth.
Hopefully this year things at CES with regards to the products above will be less talk and more actual inventory in stores. If not then i know myself and many others that have waited and waited will, come March or April walk right past the ever decreasing aisle of DLP's and go for the MULTIPLE aisles of bigger and price dropping LCD's or maybe even Plasma's(maybe).

[QUOTE=blackstar79]are companies still going to make bulbs for the DLP's currently being sold now? QUOTE]
For the price that is charged for those bulbs(lamps) someone will always be around to sell them.

Just thought i'd put in my two cents here as i was thinking of buying a DLP when my what do i want to spend an absurd amount of money on quest began.
DLP's do seem to have clear advantages over Plasma & LCD but if all the emerging technologies out there like SED actually become common are companies still going to make bulbs for the DLP's currently being sold now? i'm thinking in 3 or 4 years people with DLP's will have very large coffee tables...

Why wouldn't they continue to manufacture the bulb? It's a money maker for them and more than likely sourced out to a bulb manufacturer anyway and even if not, it doesn't really have anything to do with making a complete DLP set. As long as there is a market (bulbs will continue to burn out) there will be bulbs made regardless if the TV is still made.

I could have been mis-informed, but I believe that manufacturers must support their products in the form of replacment parts for a period of 4 years after the production on that product stops.
So, you have at least 5 years to buy all the bulbs you think you will need.

From the Dallas Morning News, Thursday Jan, 4, 2007: In an article by Crayton Harrison, about CES in Las Vegas: "TI (Texas Instruments).....will focus on its DLP TV chips....The company's booth space, measuring 8,800 square feet, will feature nearly 40 high-definition DLP TVs".

So I guess DLP is not quite dead yet.

..."TI (Texas Instruments).....will focus on its DLP TV chips....The company's booth space, measuring 8,800 square feet, will feature nearly 40 high-definition DLP TVs".

Once again the CES show demonstrates what delusions Odditor55 lives in.

I personally prefer LCoS to DLP, but I have no doubt DLP will survive for some time. Eventually, solid-state usually wins out over moving parts. First, this may mean that the wheel will be replaced by LED or laser light source. That should also eliminate the lamp replacement problem.

Further down the line, I think DLP will be out-competed by single chip LED or laser LCoS, once again because solid-state gives production advantages. I have no doubt that solid state flat-panel will eventually prevail, but now that SED seems stalled it may take a while.

Long before this happens one can predict the death of CRT both direct-view and projection. Bulk and the very real environmental costs of disposing of dead sets dictate this. I think plasma will have a harder and harder time competing, and eventally become a niche market like vinyl records are today. The advantage of thin panels should diminish if JVC's announced new thin design pans out.

As for LCD, I think flat-panels have a lock on the low end and smaller sizes for some time. As I type this I am looking into a 21 inch SyncMaster that has a fine image. There's a bit of screen door effect which darkens white areas a little, but not bothersome unless you care to look for it deliberately. But the vibrancy of colours and precision of outlines are excellent. I can easily see myself getting a medium-sized LCD HDTV for the bedroom in the future. Fine to watch Jay Leno on.

No way you will find a current model 60" 720p/768p plasma under $2500 one month from now.

How can you say that when you can not find them under $4K now?

Vizio has announced the upcoming 60" plasma with a projected MSRP of $2499. Of course that could change but it does fall in line with the current pricing of their 50"

First, I'll believe in SED when it actually gets here. It along with other panel technologies such as OLED have been promissed for years and have never made it to market (at least as a large panel - OLED is in some small pannels for portable devices now.)

That said, just because it's here doesn't mean it will close out a market. The RPTV microdisplay market has been growing fast, even when it takes a down turn, it will be several years until they slide into no existence. That will only be when flat panels of the same size get to a price point for the same quality such that it's no longer a finicial winner, that the Microdisplay will start sliding into drop in production and take several years to be eliminated.

That said, I still don't see bulb suppliers going completely away. Millions of Front Projection units are also sold, and that market is not likely do disappear as there are a lot more of them in work conference rooms than homes by far and they tend to get replaced every few years.

CCourtney

PS: There's still plenty of room to drop in cost in Microdisplays. I've been hearing Plasma is going to catch Microdisplays in cost within 6mo's for the past 3yrs. It still hasn't happened. :D

I wouldn't be too sure about bulbs being readily available, at least from some companies. I purchased a Sony GrandWega about three years ago (first gen). The bulb was rated by Sony at 6k hours, but I saw on these forums that people were having failures at as little as 1,800 so I decided to get an extra just in case.

The set was only 4 months old, and I find out that the bulbs are only available through Sony direct, and Sony is already not keeping them in stock. I placed an order and finally received it 10 months later (when I was told there was enough demand to have another production run).

As I see it, when this bulb dies (fortunately I'm still on the first bulb three years later) I do NOT forsee any way to get another. If Sony is already giving only limited support to a set only 4 months old, what sort of support can I expect when it's a few years old?

Other manufacturer's are far more customer friendly, so this won't necessarily be a problem for everyone. However, don't expect companies like Sony to give any sort of support for the product once it is out of the market.

All purchases of sets must be made with the realization that the set may have to be replaced when consumables like bulbs fail.

Why wouldn't they continue to manufacture the bulb? It's a money maker for them and more than likely sourced out to a bulb manufacturer anyway and even if not, it doesn't really have anything to do with making a complete DLP set. As long as there is a market (bulbs will continue to burn out) there will be bulbs made regardless if the TV is still made.

Again, see my above post. I'd also site the precedent of companies like Sony stopping manufacture of batteries for some of the digital cameras after a single year.

I've had colleagues who were unable to get a replacement battery for their cameras as little as a year after purchase. There is no law requiring support of a product (at least as far as I've seen) and apparently if there is there is no one to enforce this law.

With real crimes what agency is going to be interested in enforcing this? The only protection a buyer has in this regard is to buy from a trustworthy company or to stockpile consumables (though the set could fail in other ways meaning money spent for items not used).

From the Dallas Morning News, Thursday Jan, 4, 2007: In an article by Crayton Harrison, about CES in Las Vegas: "TI (Texas Instruments).....will focus on its DLP TV chips....The company's booth space, measuring 8,800 square feet, will feature nearly 40 high-definition DLP TVs".

So I guess DLP is not quite dead yet.

TI booth space has nothing to do with Best Buy, Circuit City, Tweeter, Fry's etc. shelf space. TI can rent the Staples Center to showcase all of their stuff but it doesn't mean their stuff will be availbable at the aforementioned B&M's.

Again, when I go into the those B&M's it is clear to me, that flat panels are what they are trying to sale. It's clear to me that the majority of folks looking to purchase a HDTV set want a flat panel. Flat panels are begining to dominate the showroom floors of those B&M's.

Long before this happens one can predict the death of CRT both direct-view and projection. Bulk and the very real environmental costs of disposing of dead sets dictate this. I think plasma will have a harder and harder time competing, and eventally become a niche market like vinyl records are today

And I guess you believe RP SXRD's are going to dominate the planet. PUL LEEZE!! :mad:

It seems one DLP manufacturer has already bit the dust.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9670727-1.html


I'm not surprised by this, people want FLAT PANELS. :rolleyes:

It seems one DLP manufacturer has already bit the dust.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9670727-1.html


I'm not surprised by this, people want FLAT PANELS. :rolleyes:
Come on now. HP failing in the HDTV market has nothing to do with general DLP sales, and everything to do with the fact that most people don't go to a computer company to buy a big ticket HDTV. Gateway also failed in their DLP attempts a few years ago, yet Samsung DLP sales surged during the same exact time frame, despite other manufacturers such as Toshiba and Mits entering the DLP market.

There will always be a market for each type of technology since each has its own pros and cons and its own price point (RP will likely always be less expensive than flat panel). A friend of mine just bought a plasma and is not so happy with it since it is unwatchable during the day, opposite a large picture window.

U.S. Law requires a company have spare parts available for products for a period of 5 years (I believe) after the last production date. That is assuming the company is still around.

I am not sure of the specifics, but I do feel pretty safe that my $2k TV is covered under this law. However I doubt my $49 DVD player is.

Large companies like Sony, Samsung, JVC, etc... will keep stock or have an alternative part for years after production, even if it wasn't the law. They sell the extended warranties themselves and know they will need parts for the duration of these.

Mark

You seem gleeful enough to throw that in my face but you should be in mourning with me because SED would have delivered us into a new "golden era" of display technology.

I'm not satisfied with the state of display technology, it could be better :mad: :(

You seem gleeful enough to keep posting and reposting in the RPTV forum negative comments about RPTV's. I'm simply pointing out that your track record on predicting the future is pretty poor.

Why aren't you excited that it looks like Novalux and Osram (both public) are developing laser illumination for RPTV? It certainly looks a lot more real to me than SED. With lasers you get colors that are much better than LCD and Plasma and the optical principles of laser light will lead to higher contrast and smaller cabinets along with instant on and no bulb life issues and low screen gain for wide viewing angle.

At what point is something considered to be a "flat panel?" The next round of lamp based RPTVs are going to be about 10" deep (see the new JVC and expected new Sony LCOS sets). With lasers this could shrink to 6" or less. At this point the sets would fit about the same box and be easier to ship and handle as they would weight about half as much.

Come on now. HP failing in the HDTV market has nothing to do with general DLP sales, and everything to do with the fact that most people don't go to a computer company to buy a big ticket HDTV. Gateway also failed in their DLP attempts a few years ago, yet Samsung DLP sales surged during the same exact time frame, despite other manufacturers such as Toshiba and Mits entering the DLP market.

There will always be a market for each type of technology since each has its own pros and cons and its own price point (RP will likely always be less expensive than flat panel). A friend of mine just bought a plasma and is not so happy with it since it is unwatchable during the day, opposite a large picture window.

When I say flat panel I include LCD flat panel as well. I have both plasma and LCD.

The days of RPTV are numbered, that's not negative, its just pointing out the direction in which the market is going.

The folks at HP looked at the market trend and also see flat panels as the future.

When I say flat panel I include LCD flat panel as well. I have both plasma and LCD.

The days of RPTV are numbered, that's not negative, its just pointing out the direction in which the market is going.

The folks at HP looked at the market trend and also see flat panels as the future.

Once again you are stating opinion as fact. You have amply express your opinion on RPTV yet took great offense when people expressed the opinion that SED looked like it was not going to happen.

I doubt you have any more comprehension of what laser illumination could mean for RPTV than you did for the problems in bringing SED to the market. You have a very simple mindset of it having to be something sandwiched between two plates of glass.

The market for RPTV is still rising. Much of the market share that LCD and Plasma have gained have come from CRTs which have all but disappeared. I believe Whether RPTV continues to rise will depend on new light source come to market. These new light sources are already being show and you can get up close to the displays (unlike SED). A lot will depend on price points and form factors. There are inherent cost advantages in RPTV over flat panels as the screen size gets larger so it is yet to be known how it will play out. It looks like lasers could give RPTV's a price point that will be difficult for LCD to match at 48" and above.

A number of companies have gotten out of Plasma and LCD panels, but this does not make it a fact that either of these is dead (although a lot of market forecast show Plasma to be in big trouble in the long haul). You state one example of HP and generalize it to the whole market and you have know idea why HP may be getting out of RPTV, it could have been for any number of reasons including not having the market channels to sell TVs to compete with the major TV brands. They are probably just rebranding others LCD and Plasma to sell through their existing computer store channels rather that developing their own consumer TV product.

...you have know idea why HP may be getting out of RPTV, it could have been for any number of reasons ....

Agree. HP is a highly diversified company, and HDTV is just one corner. Their corporate name and future is not linked to HDTV like say Sony, Samsung, Toshiba or JVC. Now if THOSE companies get out of RPTV that would say something, but not HP. Same goes for Canon, which tried that model which incorporated a photocopier. I see they have no RPTVs listed now, so obviously dropped it. But like HP, that says nothing about the market as a whole.

You seem gleeful enough to throw that in my face but you should be in mourning with me because SED would have delivered us into a new "golden era" of display technology.

I'm not satisfied with the state of display technology, it could be better :mad: :(

I can't say I'm the least surprised at the delays with SED. It just seems hard to believe we have reached the point that we have common household items based on quantum mechanics. Once somebody can explain to me why quantum mechanics work or I've gone on my first warp speed jaunt then I'll be ready for a quantum tunneling TV.

Once again you are stating opinion as fact. You have amply express your opinion on RPTV yet took great offense when people expressed the opinion that SED looked like it was not going to happen.

But my opinion is a credible one, its backed up by the market. Flat panel TV prices are dropping which is resulting in increase sales, or do you stubbornly deny those facts

I doubt you have any more comprehension of what laser illumination could mean for RPTV than you did for the problems in bringing SED to the market. You have a very simple mindset of it having to be something sandwiched between two plates of glass.

Right now laser TV is a non-factor, its not even a player in the game. Its still a RPTV and 10 inches is still less than 4 inches.

The market for RPTV is still rising.

Do you actually believe that? Given the choice between a similar priced/size RPTV vs. a flat panel what do you think the global set buying public would choose? Please don't run away from answering that question.

Much of the market share that LCD and Plasma have gained have come from CRTs which have all but disappeared. I believe Whether RPTV continues to rise will depend on new light source come to market.

CRT represented a significant part of the market, so you are proving my point for me.

These new light sources are already being show and you can get up close to the displays (unlike SED). A lot will depend on price points and form factors. There are inherent cost advantages in RPTV over flat panels as the screen size gets larger so it is yet to be known how it will play out

Yeah, but the idea a big fat TV in our living rooms in the year 2007 and beyond is becoming less and less desirable.



A number of companies have gotten out of Plasma and LCD panels, but this does not make it a fact that either of these is dead (although a lot of market forecast show Plasma to be in big trouble in the long haul).

What companies have gotten out of flat panels all togther? Most companies either have LCD's or Plasma's.

You state one example of HP and generalize it to the whole market and you have know idea why HP may be getting out of RPTV, it could have been for any number of reasons including not having the market channels to sell TVs to compete with the major TV brands.

I cited the HP news because I believe it is an indication as to where the market is going. If HP is some second rate TV company, why did they not abandon Flat panel like they did RPTV?

They are probably just rebranding others LCD and Plasma to sell through their existing computer store channels rather that developing their own consumer TV product.

No matter what, the fact is HP is getting out of RPTV in favor of flat panel.

Yeah, but the idea a big fat TV in our living rooms in the year 2007 and beyond is becoming less and less desirable.

Hahahaha, Even if my set was .5 cm thick it would still be sitting around 20" from my wall since I MUCH RATHER the look of a nice set in a wall unit with my components around it. SO the fact my DLP is 18" thick is really a non issue. The area of space the screen sits in ref to bring it flush agains the unit remains the same regardless of the size being 18" or .5cm

I am not sure what your environment is, but maybe if I was in a small apartment (YUCK) rather than a house my mind would change ... but I don't think so.

I'd put my 67" Sammy 1080p DLP in a head to head with any flat panel out there. You have to take into consideration the "BANG FOR YOUR BUCK" factor.

LONG LIVE DLP

... Given the choice between a similar priced/size RPTV vs. a flat panel what do you think the global set buying public would choose?

Given the choice of a Rolls-Royce for the price of a Chevy which would you choose? The fact is that the price/size/quality comparison for HDTVs over 50 inches still favours RPTVs by a wide margin and will for some time since both are getting better and cheaper every year. Watch the CES next week. There be no SEDs (play the violin for Odd55 while he pretends to cry) but lots of demonstration of thinner RP sets and ones lit by laser and LED.

Most people agree that solid-state direct view will win out in the end. But we are many many years from that, and there are almost certain to be technical surprises along the way. People like you with agendas of deception and manipulation do not help us understand this process.

Why wouldn't they continue to manufacture the bulb? It's a money maker for them and more than likely sourced out to a bulb manufacturer anyway and even if not, it doesn't really have anything to do with making a complete DLP set. As long as there is a market (bulbs will continue to burn out) there will be bulbs made regardless if the TV is still made.


To all the naysayers -- Hoover still makes bags for vacuum cleaners that are 20 years old, or more. As long as there are a reasonable number of sets in service, they will sell the bulbs, trust me.

People here overestimate the more glacial timeframes at which the rest of Joe-sixpack America moves. There are a LOT of DLPs being sold now, and probably more over the next 3 years. There will be a big installed base, and not everyone is going to trash their perfectly good DLP just to get some new SED or to save an extra 3 inches of depth on a laser DLP or whatever.

When I say flat panel I include LCD flat panel as well. I have both plasma and LCD.

The days of RPTV are numbered, that's not negative, its just pointing out the direction in which the market is going.

The folks at HP looked at the market trend and also see flat panels as the future.

You know Auditor55, you are the last person on this forum that
should be making any kind of predictions about display technology.
(You have failed on many predictions and SED was never even born).

What happens with RPTV starts to use Lasers
and start sliming down to the size of flat panels,
but with no burn-in, a much cheaper price, and better color?

Auditor55 - If you can find me a GOOD quality LCD (not Plasma, as i game, and really don't want burn in..) that matches my Samsung 42", i would be impressed. I got my HL-S4266 for $799, and there is no way you will find a quality unit that matches its size and quality for anywhere near the price. The best you can get is an off brand from 1.1K+, but thats about it.

And THAT, aside from everything else, is the reason RPTV will continue to be around in the predictable future. The technology is cheap, and the quality good. No flat panel can match that right now.

DLP is not going anywhere, read this (100,000:1 contrast ration???):

DLP® Opens CES with a Bang

DLP® HDTVs from leading manufacturers including Samsung, Mitsubishi, NuVision, Panasonic, RCA, Toshiba and more are on display at the world's most important electronics trade show. The DLP® HDTV news at CES is about two major developments. TI announced that many of its OEM partners will offer "slim DLP HDTVs," featuring 10" thin designs and very light weight, and also that LED-based DLP® HDTVs are coming to market.

Slim DLP® products provide the biggest picture in the smallest space by minimizing the space-wasting bezel required in other display solutions and are the thinnest freestanding display at their screen size. At approximately half the weight of plasma televisions, these innovative HDTVs can be placed almost anywhere within the home, including easy shelf mounting without requiring expensive heavy duty wall brackets. Samsung began shipping Slim DLP products in 2006 and additional manufactures are expected to introduce models in 2007.

DLP® products from Texas Instruments (Booth 8204) is demonstrating the first HDTV with hang-on-the wall slim design featuring solid-state LED illumination and full-HD 1080p resolution. This DLP HDTV demonstrates the flexibility and performance of DLP technology using advanced components to create an incredible high definition image on the screen.

This first of a kind product concept is enabled by a new .65" 1080p DLP® chip-set that is optimized to drive solid-state LED arrays to drastically increase contrast performance beyond 100,000 to 1. New 2007 products from Samsung based on this new chipset will also be on display.

The ten-fold contrast improvement provides for a better viewing experience in almost any ambient room lighting situation. Additionally, LED illumination increases the color saturation to nearly 140 percent of the NTSC TV standard and delivers a color refresh rate of up to 48x the standard TV frame rate when combined with the inherent speed of DLP technology. LED illumination also provides "Instant On/Off" functionality and replaces a conventional lamp with a long-lasting (lifetime) light stheirce.

CES attendees can view the new slim designs and LED-based DLP HDTVs, as well as DLP® -based projectors at the DLP Products Booth #8204. And the CES floor in Las Vegas this week will feature hundreds of DLP® -based projectors and HDTVs. In ten years, DLP® has proven that it's the technology of choice for both front projection and HDTVs. The proof? The wide of array of DLP® products on display at CES, from Samsung, Runco, Vidikron, Panasonic, NEC, SIM2, Sharp, Optoma, Infocus, HP, DreamVision, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, and more, showing everything from microportable projectors to 3-chip 1080P projectors to the latest DLP HDTV's.

The following is a just a preview of a few of the DLP® projectors and HDTVs you will see at CES.

Samsung

Samsung is introducing its Slim DLP HDTV line that combines slim depth design with highly advanced solid-state LED light-engine technology. Available in three large screen sizes: 50-, 56-, and 61-inch, the HL-T5087S, HL-T5687S and HL-T6187S models, Samsung's new flagship series are the industry' s first slim depth DLP TVs that are LED-Light Source based.

Dan Schinasi, Senior Market Manager, Digital Projection TV, Samsung Electronics America, shows off Samsung's LED light-engine based, Slim DLP HDTV line at the Samsung booth at CES.
In addition to a cabinet that is thin enough to mount these sets on a wall, a revolutionary thin bezel design allows the frame of a Samsung Slim DLP HDTV to fit in spaces that an equivalent screen size Flat Screen TV might not because they require a thicker bezel. Also, consumers no longer have to replace a lamp every two to three years, because the traditional lamp-based engine has been replaced by LED light engine that provides longer life, and improved color reproduction. Samsung also introduces three new affordable lamp-based UltraSlim DLP HDTVs, the HL-T6176S, HL-T5676S, and HL-T5076S models, also in 50-, 56- and 61-inch screen sizes respectively, but slightly slimmer in depth than their lamp-less counterparts. All six of these 2007 models feature Full HD 1080p resolution to take advantage of the influx of both HD video content and next generation HD gaming consoles.

With LED powered DLP HDTV line, Samsung removes the traditional rear projection TV UHP lamp and color wheel and replaces them with powerful LED technology whereby, red, green and blue LEDs sequentially fire to produce smooth, stable color, offering consumers the opportunity to enjoy a captivating cinematic experience with improved color reproduction. The exclusive Cinema Smooth LED light engine provides a dramatic improvement in reliability and longevity approximately ftheir times longer than that of lamps. Furthermore, the LED technology can save users hundreds of dollars a year in electricity and lamp replacements. With Samsung's DLP HDTVs consumers get the benefit of the latest features, outstanding performance, and exquisite design in large screen sizes that use less energy than same screen size Flat panel HDTVs.

These new LED based DLP HDTVs for 2007 are equipped with a wide-angle lens system that allows them to take on a super sleek cabinet, reducing the height by 2.5-inches, depth by 2.0-inches and width by 2.0-inches compared to the previous Samsung LED based DLP TV.

With their new Slim LED based and lamp-based DLP HDTVs, Samsung combines the benefits of rear projection technology with flat wall-mount display options so consumers can enjoy the best of both worlds- "affordability in large sizes and a clean design to complement the sleekest decor,"said Sangheung Shin, Senior Vice President of the Visual Display Division for Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. "In 2006, Samsung introduced the first Slim DLP and the first LED DLP, each in only one screen size. Both proved so popular that we've combined their respective virtues into their groundbreaking Slim DLP HDTV line based on their new generation Cinema Smooth Light Engine."

With a depth of only 13.4 to 15.4-inches for the 87-series Slim LED DLP® HDTVs, and a mere 11.5 to 12.3-inches for the 76-series Ultra-Slim DLP HDTVs, along with a hidden speaker design in both, these TVs offer performance excellence in an aesthetically pleasing sleek and slim appearance. These 1080p DLP TVs provide the ultimate in picture quality with an ultra high contrast ratio of 10,000:1 and superb brightness. The Cinema Smooth Gen 8 Exclusive Light Engine creates a picture with no visible pixel structure for a captivating, seamless, theater-quality experience. Samsung's Digital Natural Image Engine (DNIe¢â) optimizes the picture from any input signal. The built-in NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners permit using the TV's remote control to surf the world of free over-the-air HDTV signals and unscrambled digital channels provided by cable suppliers.

All of Samsung's Slim DLP models feature the latest digital connectivity enhancements. A special Game Mode optimizes the gaming experience with faster response time, enhanced graphics, and improved sound quality, creating an immersive experience. Every 2007 DLP model is 3D ready for the next generation Full HD gaming experience. Triple HDMI inputs connect with other digital devices such as Cable, Satellite, DVD players and game consoles, allowing simultaneous transmission of HD audio and video signals over the same wire, for an optimal sound and picture experience. A USB connection with photo viewer makes it easy to connect mass storage devices to display photos on screen. And, a PC-input provides an easy connection to a laptop or desktop computer.

Samsung's 2007 DLP HDTV line will be on display during CES 2007 at the Samsung Booth, #11033, in the Las Vegas Convention Center from January 8- 11.

Optoma BigVizion
Optoma Unveils Largest 1080p, DLP-Based HDTV

Optoma has unveiled its latest native 1080p display, the 120-inch (diagonal) BigVizion™. The Optoma BigVizion is a line of DLP®-based rear-projection displays that is available through Optoma's network of key distributors and dealers. The BigVizion is a customizable display that can be installed or built-into a wall. Utilizing a single-mirror system with Texas Instruments' DLP chipset, the 120-inch BigVizion joins the family of BigVizion displays, which are currently available in three other sizes, 80-, 90-and 100-inches. For this category of display, the BigVizion displays have one of the slimmest depths for rear-projection displays, an estimated 40-inch depth for the 120-inch model.

The BigVizion comes with Optoma's proprietary video enhancement processor and light engine, which ensure all input signals are displayed as 1080p. The engine can be accessed from the front of the optical screen for installation and future upgrades as needed. BigVizion features 10,000:1 contrast, IR pass-through for system integration, precision pixel matching technology for 1:1 scan conversion, multiple inputs, including: HDMI, BNC, RGBHV, VGA, S-Video, Composite, Component and supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p inputs.

Targeted for the professional home theater installer market, BigVizion ships as an easy-to-install modular system. BigVizion comes with a customizable color scheme, to easily change the bezel color to match a customers' décor.

The BigVizion line of 1080p displays is available through authorized and certified Optoma BigVizion distributors and installers/dealers. The 120-inch BigVizion has an estimated MSRP of $49,999 and will be available in the second half of 2007.

NuVision Deep Black LED DLP® TV
NuVision New Deep Black LED DLP® TV
The NuVision 52LEDLP uses the PhlatLight™ LED Light Source to Provide Revolutionary Video Performance with Superior Color Fidelity, More Refined Grey Scale and Deeper Black LevelsNuVision has announced that production has begun on its new 1080p DLP® television (model # 52LEDLP) and that it is currently shipping the new TV. NuVision has also recently announced that its new line of Deep Black LED DLP televisions is initially available in the 52-inch model ($4,399 MSRP) with larger screen models targeted for the near future. The unit will be on hand during the 2007 CES in Las Vegas., Nev. (Jan. 8- 11).

The NuVision LED DLP® TV is on view at the Texas Instruments Booth at the CES show.

"We are very excited about ramping up production and making available the industry's most anticipated new 1080p DLP® television," said Scott Deley, NuVision CEO. "With breakthrough technologies, such as the PhlatLight™ LED-based light source, the NuVision 52LEDLP brings dazzling new visuals never before seen by the AV industry."

The NuVision LED illumination system is based on the breakthrough PhlatLight™ LED-based light source, developed and manufactured by the U.S. company Luminus Devices, Inc. The NuVision version of this technology is designed with specialized electronics systems optimized to proprietary NuVision control and signal processing systems with the goal of creating the ultimate new reference standard in high-performance video reproduction.

The PhlatLight light source is a semiconductor RGB LED chipset that produces superior color fidelity, more refined grey scale and deeper black levels. The PhlatLight LEDs allowed NuVision designers to create a radical new approach to light engine design that changes the entire optical architecture, improving it in every respect while simultaneously eliminating all shortcomings of conventional arc lamp PTV illumination.

Besides the spectacular improvements in color accuracy, brilliance, contrast and black levels, other benefits of the NuVision Deep Black LED Light Engine include:

Long Life - No brightness degradation or bulb replacement needed

Instant On with full brightness in less than four seconds. No waiting for the lamp to warm up

Environmentally Friendly - 100 percent free of mercury or other hazardous materials found in conventional TV lamps and no more discarded bulbs, reducing the amount of toxic solid waste in landfills

Consumes less power than conventional large screen TVs, saving energy and reducing air pollution

Widest Color Gamut - Capable of 40 percent more than the HDTV standard to produce highly saturated and accurate colors not possible on other TVs

Digitally Controlled Color Balance and adjustable white point automatically maintains accurate color and improved grayscale accuracy

Elimination of rotating color wheel filters means silent operation and no motion blur or "rainbow" artifacts

High Brightness/High Contrast - No infrared or ultraviolet lamp filters needed; High light efficiency: 500 Nits of brightness, over 5000:1 contrast

DSDB - NuVision Digital Switching Deep Black circuitry allows precise control of LEDs for deeper blacks
NuVision televisions are available through select retailers & custom installers nationwide. To locate a NuVision dealer near you please visit nuvision.com or call (877) 738-7641

I think a lot of the RPTV market will hing on laser illumination which is being developed (publicly announced) by Novalux and Osram. Lasers will do more than give microdisplays great color space, they have the potential to make them very thin (due to the optical properties of the laser illumination) and more affordable. Lasers could result in a 60" RPTV at about 5" deep (close to an LCD or plasma of that size) and the price could be about $1,000, a point at which the manufacturing, handing, shipping, of greater than 50" LCD glass with illumination gets to be a problem. And they will weight about 1/2 as much and consume about 1/2 to 1/3rd the power. If the set is 5" thick, and the cost is right, will most consumers care if it is LCD, Plasma, or RPTV?Interesting possibility, but do you see any resolution to the problems of 1. misconvergence, 2. Silk Screen Effect, and 3. off axis viewing ? SSE is still my major concern with RPTV. Flat panels are coming along rapidly these days. The Sammy/Sony has had some uneven backlight issues and the Sharps have banding, but both of these problems may be temporary glitches with new larger panels. Contrast ratios are moving on 3000:1 for LCD (static) and prices are tumbling. I had a 52 Sammy LCD for awhile that ran on 115 watts (backlight is adjustable, makes a huge difference from power specs). Real power use can be less than 1/2 of rated for these sets.

I wouldn't be too sure about bulbs being readily available, at least from some companies. Why not, given that I can still get needles for my turntable?

DLP's=Big size for little price. If I wanted to buy a 72" Plasma or LCD how much would that cost!!!!! For a DLP, that's 4k. For a flat panel 4k is going to get me what about 55" The difference in size is a whole J6P Wally World TV!!!!

Why not, given that I can still get needles for my turntable?
What's a turntable?

I recently purchased a TV and here were the factors that came into play:

Most Bang for my Buck
Picture Quality

I don't care about haning my TV on the wall, I'd still have a TV stand below it holding my DVD players and game stations, so what's the point of a flat panel.

When I went in to buy, I was thinking LCD... I came out with a HDRP DLP
When you can find a 50" DLP for $1,000 and you're paying $900+ for a 37" LCD, there is no competition.

IMO, Unless you absolutely HAVE to HAVE a Flatscreen, DLP is heads and shoulders above the rest. And if you think a 50" Plasma for $2500 is a good idea, look at the source and tell me what quality you expect...

Bulbs? How 'bout this one.....
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/09/panasonics-lifi-bulb-lasts-so-long-it-might-never-need-to-be-c/

Bulbs? How 'bout this one.....
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/09/panasonics-lifi-bulb-lasts-so-long-it-might-never-need-to-be-c/


Actually I just sawed a hole in the back of my DLP, and I pull my BMW up behind it and shine that Xenon headlamp into the hole. Works like a charm. When you want to go into torch mode, just flip on the brights.....

Walk onto any sales floor and count how many flat panels there are to RPTV's. I've been looking/playing for over 5 years and the RPTV is dying. My last count was 18 RPTVs vs 49 flat panels and 3 CRT units. I can remember the days of double the RPTV's quite well.

Still a good deal, and great value if you have a dedicated room for it. RPTV is no longer the upsell from small direct view CRT, it's the value line to upsell flat panels from (just listen to the sales pitch).

DD laser would be cool, but do you think they will get here in time? How will a laser fix the slim line optics vs a normal bulb?

Bulbs? How 'bout this one.....
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/09/panasonics-lifi-bulb-lasts-so-long-it-might-never-need-to-be-c/


I'd love to see it retrofitted into current sets.

After spending 5K on my DLP, my next set will definitely be something else !! Guess where I won't be buying it? Those MF's.

[QUOTE=jrock99]Walk onto any sales floor and count how many flat panels there are to RPTV's. I've been looking/playing for over 5 years and the RPTV is dying. My last count was 18 RPTVs vs 49 flat panels and 3 CRT units. I can remember the days of double the RPTV's quite well. [QUOTE]

This only applies to smaller screen sizes (say 50 inches or less). Go back and redo your count for bigger sets.

There's no doubt that LCD flat-panel is taking over in smaller displays. Dominance in the under 30-inch market is now virtually complete. It's hard to even find a CRT computer monitor. But have you priced a 70+ inch flat-panel either LCD or plasma? Good ones are the price of a car.

Technology often performs like this. Some designs work best for some functions, others better elsewhere.

There's no doubt in my mind that eventually solid-state direct-view will come to dominate display devices. But this will take quite a while. RP is still early in its development and has a long way to go yet.

As to which RP technology will triumph is still to be seen, but the principle that solid-state wins out over moving parts I think suggests that LCoS has the edge over DLP. But that's just my hunch. It will be fun to watch.

It seems one DLP manufacturer has already bit the dust.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9670727-1.html


I'm not surprised by this, people want FLAT PANELS. :rolleyes:

It was not that they could not sell them. They could NOT sell and SERVICE them and make money. HP lost lots of money on these sets... Light engines are incredibly expensive to replace and lots of light engines require replacement.. check the Samsung thread. HP has a brand to worry about they want to deliver an HP quality ownership and service experience.. DLPs parts are very expensive to replace and units swaps cost a thousand bucks in freight alone.

Packaging is another issue how many more LCD Panels can you get on a boat then DLPs of similar screen size. I suspect HP would sell a DLP again if it was modular in design, was very solid state, ideally with end user replacable components. I think they are agnostic.. they just want to make money on what they do.

Agree. HP is a highly diversified company, and HDTV is just one corner. Their corporate name and future is not linked to HDTV like say Sony, Samsung, Toshiba or JVC. Now if THOSE companies get out of RPTV that would say something, but not HP. Same goes for Canon, which tried that model which incorporated a photocopier. I see they have no RPTVs listed now, so obviously dropped it. But like HP, that says nothing about the market as a whole.

Don't extrapolate anything about HPs commitment to HDTV by making a business decision that DLPs were not a money maker for them and the quality of customer experience HP insists on for their brand... service. DLP's cost too much to service. DLP light engines have not been low failure items.. I am guessing here but based on their experience with their first generation sets... why should they build a huge installed base of high warranty cost machines.. they like to sell extended warranties like everybody else. They also want to make money on those ext warranties. If HP sells you an extended warranty they are going to follow through on their commitment to actually service the set.

Actually HP understands just how important the HDTV business is and they can look at the numbers and the business model for flat panels while cuthroat is something they understand as well as anybody in the world. And if you think HP does not have the relationships to sell panels through BB and others think again. They are in those channels and over time their shelf space there will grow... Take a look down BB's computer and printer aisle and you will see what they can do.

Also there is a huge opportunity in the professional display market.... This is flat panel territory and HP will be going after that in a big way. They already have the relationships with the enterprise customer required to sell 20 thousand TVs to a single customer at a time. Big, Big, Big market out there for professional displays. Just think about how many hotel rooms there are in the world.

This only applies to smaller screen sizes (say 50 inches or less). Go back and redo your count for bigger sets.
.


The hay day and main sales of RPTV was not in the 70 inch realm, it was 37 to 65. Those are replaced by flat panels now/this year. The main reason to go RPTV now is cost and size of picture , but you pay the price in size of foot print for large 70 inch sets, which many cannot or will not do, or just plain don't want a TV that large (I DO).

Stores just do not stock them as much anymore as the demand is not there. FWIW the MSRP on the new Samsung 70 inch LCD's are the same as the Sony 006 when it came out not to long ago.

The hay day and main sales of RPTV was not in the 70 inch realm, it was 37 to 65. Those are replaced by flat panels now/this year.

You rebutt something I did not say. You also appear to be trying to create facts by proclaiming them. The other alias around here that does such things is Auditor55...

Have to agree that the vast majority of consumers want the flat panel. Plasma fits this niche the best. Discriminating consumers may still buy large DLP, LCoS, or LCD projection sets, put the flatpanels are about all we'll see in most stores in a few years.

The folks at HP looked at the market trend and also see flat panels as the future.


Who at HP made this revealing comment? As already mentioned by another poster, the failure rate of units in HP's initial step into the DLP market was more likely the deciding factor in dropping DLPs. They made a junk product, couldn't service it and got out before it got even uglier. This is less a statement about DLP and more a statement about HP's implementation of DLP.

Who at HP made this revealing comment? As already mentioned by another poster, the failure rate of units in HP's initial step into the DLP market was more likely the deciding factor in dropping DLPs. They made a junk product, couldn't service it and got out before it got even uglier. This is less a statement about DLP and more a statement about HP's implementation of DLP.


B freaking S. The HP DLP was highly rated, one of the very first sets to acccept a native 1080p source.

Do you need someone from HP to make an official annoucement, look at the market trends for yourself and you will come to know, just like I have, why HP dropped DLP.

High failure rated doesn't have any ill affects on sales, see Sony's SXRD's, green blobs and bad optical blocks haven't hurt their sales, the same is true of JVC's D-ILA's.

What is hurting the sales of DLP and RPTV, are the plummeting prices of flat panel displays.

I can say with confidence that most of global TV set buying public would prefer a flat panel display over a RPTV.

Auditor55 - If you can find me a GOOD quality LCD (not Plasma, as i game, and really don't want burn in..) that matches my Samsung 42", i would be impressed. I got my HL-S4266 for $799, and there is no way you will find a quality unit that matches its size and quality for anywhere near the price. The best you can get is an off brand from 1.1K+, but thats about it.

And THAT, aside from everything else, is the reason RPTV will continue to be around in the predictable future. The technology is cheap, and the quality good. No flat panel can match that right now.

Wait until you start replacing that bulb, light engine and god forbid you ever start seeing rainbows.

I would say that flat panel price drops and screen size increases will be the doom of all RP technology. Right now you can find a 47" 1080p LCD for under $1900 and a $250 off coupon puts it under $1650. Later this month you will see a 60" 720p plasma for under $2500. That last one will really hurt the LCOS and DLP market.

I bought a 61" 720P LCOS set for under $1k last Friday. Looking at a major retailers website, I can get the same manufacturers 61" 1080P LCOS set for slightly less than your 60" 720P plasma, and their 56" 1080P set for around $100 more than your 47" LCD. People may very well be in love with the Plasma/LCD form factor, but I wouldn't call RPTV dead yet on the basis of size or price, especially when it comes to picture quality.

You rebutt something I did not say. You also appear to be trying to create facts by proclaiming them. The other alias around here that does such things is Auditor55...

Surrrrrrre thing there guy, I told you my last TV count (from a future shop) and you said that my figures are wrong, and I responded to it (very politely). RP is anything other then young, I mean who says that? That's a great "fact" if you must call it that, I can show you 4:3 RP facts from 11 years ago.

Which RPTV technology will triumph??? You'll have to wait to see I guess.

The days of RPTV are numbered, that's not negative, its just pointing out the direction in which the market is going.

Wow. Who'd thunk it. :rolleyes:

I know where DLP stands, but how about that "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG" awaited SED technology?

Here is another carrot for you "WAITING FOR SED" types

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/12/canon-set-to-buy-out-toshibas-display-stake-sed-production-in/

Wait until you start replacing that bulb, light engine and god forbid you ever start seeing rainbows....and god forbid you ever see green flashes on a plasma, or not be able to see the picture clearly because of reflections, or have to replace that very expensive panel. :D

...and god forbid you ever see green flashes on a plasma, or not be able to see the picture clearly because of reflections, or have to replace that very expensive panel. :D

So are you saying we shouldn't throw rocks when living in glass panels, :D or, that each display method has it's drawbacks?

B freaking S. The HP DLP was highly rated, one of the very first sets to acccept a native 1080p source.

I made no statement about PQ, I was talking about reliability.

Do you need someone from HP to make an official annoucement, look at the market trends for yourself and you will come to know, just like I have, why HP dropped DLP.

I don't doubt for a second that falling Panel prices have tipped the scales and that DLP may decrease while Panel increases (market share). Unlike you however, I could hardly equate that with DLP extinction in the near future.

High failure rated doesn't have any ill affects on sales, see Sony's SXRD's, green blobs and bad optical blocks haven't hurt their sales, the same is true of JVC's D-ILA's.

Sony, and to a lesser extent JVC, have decades of good reputation in the TV biz to fall back on. HP is new to the TV world and can hardly afford a misstep like the poor quality of some of their initial units.

What is hurting the sales of DLP and RPTV, are the plummeting prices of flat panel displays.

I can say with confidence that most of global TV set buying public would prefer a flat panel display over a RPTV.

.