i've been trying to read as much as i can about color space lately since hooking up my Oppo dvd player and calibrating with DVE. Currently, the setup is an Oppo 970 ssending 480i via HDMI to a Pioneer 4360. Within the Oppo's setup screen, theres a colorspace option that can be selected (4:4:4, RGB, Auto) I switched it from RGB to 4:4:4 in my ignorance and calibrated the set. I know that Pioneers inherently have a lot of green push and to my surprise, when adjusting color and tint, the only way to adjust them properly with the blue filter was to have the tint pretty far on the green side of things. wouldn't this exaggerate the green push? i do see things in movies like lawns that look overly flourescent.

I'm having a bit of a time trying to figure out if i should have it set to 4:4:4 or RGB or if it even matters since some of the material i've read says that HDMI devices select the proper color space for the type of input it detects. conversely, since i'm using the 480i option, having the player set to 4:4:4 i think may be sending incorrect information since what i've read in the archives says that the source material is SD and uses a 601 color space (RGB). is this correct?

since the Oppo is a SD player and even though it upconverts it's still not an HD source, why would you want the option of sending a 4:4:4 colorspace to a device? if i'm right in my guess, wouldn't that be inaccurate to do?

Thanks for any help.

anyone?

SD and uses a 601 color space (RGB). is this correct? You should set the Oppo to Auto.

Whether a source is SD and thus uses Rec 601 (SMPTE-C) is independent from whether it also uses RGB or YPbBr. The former is a colorspace issue that varies between SD and HD. The latter is a color decoding issue, which may arise regardless of the resolution.

SD uses 601. However, the oppo is upconverting and if it is outputting component it should twist that to 709 because most all devices downstream will decode component using either 601 or 709 matrix depending solely on the input resolution. If it sees an HD signal, it will use 709, even if the content originally was SD 601 content, thus the need for the upconverting (or downcoverting if that's relevant) device to twist the colorspace.

601/709 matrix mismatches cause most depression/push problemson the green channel. If your display on top of that is also using inaccurate colordecoding that may make the problem worse, or it may actually help the problem if it's going the opposite way.

If you click the link in my signature there's more discussion about this and some patterns and some links to the sigma site which has some images with mis-match problems in both directions which are very interesting.

As for what you should set the oppo to or what it's doing, I have no idea, so I'm sorry I can't be of more specific help there. You can test things with colorbars though, and hopefully reading through what I've written in my guide will help you understand that and test and figure things out.

SD uses 601. However, the oppo is upconverting and if it is outputting component it should twist that to 709 because most all devices downstream will decode component using either 601 or 709 matrix depending solely on the input resolution. If it sees an HD signal, it will use 709, even if the content originally was SD 601 content, thus the need for the upconverting (or downcoverting if that's relevant) device to twist the colorspace.

601/709 matrix mismatches cause most depression/push problemson the green channel. If your display on top of that is also using inaccurate colordecoding that may make the problem worse, or it may actually help the problem if it's going the opposite way.

If you click the link in my signature there's more discussion about this and some patterns and some links to the sigma site which has some images with mis-match problems in both directions which are very interesting.

As for what you should set the oppo to or what it's doing, I have no idea, so I'm sorry I can't be of more specific help there. You can test things with colorbars though, and hopefully reading through what I've written in my guide will help you understand that and test and figure things out.

thanks Chris

I read through that link in your site already as well as the link to sigma. i suppose i was thinking that "if its 720 or 1080, then it should use 709, if it's 480, then 601" i'm using 480 over HDMI, but i see it's not quite that simple. is anything ever???

i'm using 480 over HDMI

I was assuming you were letting the oppo upscale to HD resolution, so if it's being left at 480i, then it's probable that the display should use 601 on that, which should be correct. Of course, if the display has non-standard color decoding all bets are off...

I was assuming you were letting the oppo upscale to HD resolution, so if it's being left at 480i, then it's probable that the display should use 601 on that, which should be correct. Of course, if the display has non-standard color decoding all bets are off...

so the display decides what color space to use? why do i have color space selections in the Oppo menu?

so the display decides what color space to use? why do i have color space selections in the Oppo menu?

Probably for choosing what it's doing when upscaling, but I am not at all familiar with the specifics for the oppo so this is just a guess. But this would be a natural expectation if this kind of option is available in a source device or a processor for instance. But what it's actually doing and how it's applied to different sources and how the oppo is setup I have no idea.

But what it's actually doing and how it's applied to different sources and how the oppo is setup I have no idea.

I started a thread HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=780632) trying to get at this...

a little help here (maybe)to jeff. this is taken off the Secrets review of the 970:

The rest of the core video performance testing went quite well. The only limitation I found was the selection of output color space. DVD is mastered in YCbCr 4:2:0, and most (if not all) MPEG decoders upsample this to YCbCr 4:2:2 for output. Unfortunately, the engineers at Mediatek have noticed issues with the 4:2:2 output, so selections for this chip, and the 970HD, are limited to RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4. While not a huge deal by any means, I still like to see support for 4:2:2. Both color space outputs are mapped correctly and pass below black and above white information.

still not sure which i should select.

Thanks I saw that article. the statement at the end is quite cryptic "Both color space outputs are mapped correctly...".

The question is it Rec 709 or Rec 601, with which output and which setting.

Best,
jeff