I am new to the forums and have not been able to find much on Runco products. So I would like to ask a few questions.

I am looking at upgrading my current runco system and have pretty much limited my search back to runco as I do think they have a great product. There are three projectors that I have been looking at: RS-1100 Ultra,VX-2000d, VX-22d. All three with the CineWide™ to give the 2.35:1 but not the AutoScope™ because it will be projecting onto a dedicated 2.35 screen.

I have a dedicated room that is 17.5'x27' in size and going to use a screen that is 183" wide giving a diagonal of roughly 199" that is perforated. I am not sure if the single chip dlps can produce an excellent picture at that size as I think the 3 chip dlp could. There is a huge difference in price and want to know if it would be worth it to spend the extra bucks and get the 3 chip or would the single chip be able to supply a good picture to that size of screen. It will mainly be running blu ray/HD programing/480p DVDs.

I am looking to put it on a Stewart screen. Someone told me to use a GrayHawk LS withe cinema perforated and was wondering if anyone had any input if that would be the best material for gain and what not for my setup. Still looking at the curved screen as well.

Any information would be great. Thanks in advance.
Beast

FWIW - I don't think there is any way that a single chip DLP will have the lumen output for a near 100 sq ft of screen. Single chippers have in the range of 400-600 Lumens after calibration from what I have seen and would in this case afford you only around 4-6 ft lamberts after cal on a new lamp. OUCH

Yes, screen gain would bump that up - but not much with the screen you are looking at.

You may want around 1600 lumens post cal and new lamp. Three chip is the only way you are going to get there. The 22D MAY get you there and almost certainly the 44d will. The lumen specs don't seem to be listed on the RUNCO site yet. I'm sure your dealer can get them though.

Jamin thank you for the reply.

The 44d is a little more than I wanted to spend. After adding on the anamorphic lens it really jumps up there in price. Is there any other options for projectors that would produce a great picture on that size of screen for around 50k including the anamorphic lens as they alone can go for 10-15k more?
Also, now I am being told that a FireHawk G3 would be the best screen for this application. Does that sound right?

Anyone know if Runco or other manufacturers of suitable projectors would allow me to demo the unit to see if I am happy with it before I make the purchase?

AS much as I don't subscribe to the hype that Runco uses to market their products, if you're sold on Runco and only Runco, then why not ask a Runco dealer? After all, they know their products the best and have been trained by what Runco feels to be the best. Asking a bunch of non Runco owners will probably give you answers that you don't want to hear as in suggesting other products.

Waterbeast...
You're not going to find a dealer that will give you a projector to evaluate in your home. We have a 22D here and are installing a 44D against a 14' wide screen. If you'd like to contact me, I can discuss your questions and issues...as well correct a potential misunderstanding you have with AutoScope and 2.35:1 screens (I'm not suggesting you must have AutoScope...it just appears you have a misconception there).

Dennis, how much does the 22D weigh? Will a hush box be required, or is it quiet?
Thanks

"Am I stuck to Runco?" No, after doing a little trolling it looks like there could be other options. Digital Projection's single-lamp TITAN 1080p-250 looks like it might be able to do the trick as well but not sure if it will stay under the 50k price range with the lens to make the 2.35 picture without black bars on it.

I did contact a Runco dealer and they had to call Runco to be sure on the specs or something since those are new. Then came back that"Runco says that I need to go with a VX55d or go with a smaller screen." A 100k+ PJ is out of the question as the wife would kill me. :) I am not a hardcore videophile or anything, I just like watching movies and want it to look very nice, not necessarily perfect.

I currently have a Runco DLC2000HD LCD PJ on a GrayHawk 120" wide (~137diag) Microperf screen in a 100% light controlled room and it looks good with 480p or better content. The 480i, well just plain sucks, and the CR is horrid but what do you expect out of a 5+ yr old projector I guess. What I am getting at is that back in the day they said that I should go no larger than a screen 96" wide. I did go against their suggestion and am happy with it, but I don't want to drop 50k+ and find out that I didn't get so lucky the second time around and that the VX 22d PJ is not going to give me a good picture I can live with.

Maybe I should just stay with what I have till the next round of PJ's come out.

For overall best PQ, consider a pair of Tim's blended 9" CRTs.

I think that SIM HT 5000 will also fill the bill for you but the Titan is at or near the limit with that 15' wide screen and in fact probably the SIM is also. With that size screen you are rather limited since only the light cannon three chip DLPs have the horsepower.This then means very large dollars.

Talk to Dennis he will give you good advice regarding Runco products.

Art

For overall best PQ, consider a pair of Tim's blended 9" CRTs.

Perhaps true Curt but not on a 15' 6" wide screen. :eek:

Art

....on the other hand, 183" screen is too much for a 27' room if you're going to have two rows of seats and good sound.

The VX22 shipping weight is the same as the VX2. It is quiet in the overall scheme of things but in a room with that kind of money invested in a projector, I'd never put the projector into the room naked.

....on the other hand, 183" screen is too much for a 27' room if you're going to have two rows of seats and good sound.

The VX22 shipping weight is the same as the VX2. It is quiet in the overall scheme of things but in a room with that kind of money invested in a projector, I'd never put the projector into the room naked.
So I see that is around 83Lbs without lens. Do they make hushboxes specifically for that projector? Would that hush box require its own ventillation system?

Waterbeast...
You're not going to find a dealer that will give you a projector to evaluate in your home. We have a 22D here and are installing a 44D against a 14' wide screen. If you'd like to contact me, I can discuss your questions and issues...as well correct a potential misunderstanding you have with AutoScope and 2.35:1 screens (I'm not suggesting you must have AutoScope...it just appears you have a misconception there).

KEEP YOUR EYE OUT FOR A FLICKER ISSUE ON THE 44d, BUMP IT UP TO THE 55D IF YOU CAN. THE 1K WATT CERMAX HAS A FLICKER ISSUE AT 1K HOURS.

We build the hush boxes to fit the situation with Active Thermal Management exhaust systems.

....on the other hand, 183" screen is too much for a 27' room if you're going to have two rows of seats and good sound.

The VX22 shipping weight is the same as the VX2. It is quiet in the overall scheme of things but in a room with that kind of money invested in a projector, I'd never put the projector into the room naked.


Dennis can you tell us how wide can you go with a Runco VX22D hopefully 168" 2:35 is not to wide

Taker:

I can tell you that that projector should clock 2200 ansi lumens calibrated. Definetely not powerful enough for a 168" single curve screen, affectionately called inside one of the largest screen manufactureres the "Belly Screen". As it has a protruding belly in the center.

Him and others recommending this screen ignore that eyesore and the fact that the image is half as bright on the top and bottom of the screen as it is in a horizontal center line.

Now if you want a great 168" 2.35 image with the vx-22 or better yet, if you are not going to be sliding in and out the anamorphic lens, the the DPI Titan is 15% better, simply becuase it's primaries are filtered to achieve near xenon response.

The Titan an isco3 or schneider fixed lens and the Torus Screen from Stewart available under certain conditions. That should be the ultimate screen pj combo.

With the custom ray traced Torus you can go as high as 2.8 gain and still preserve pristine colorimetry.

I'm off to CES next week to check out the Runco vx22, the DPI Titan and the Sim2 HT5000. I'm looking at a 133" wide 2.35 curved screen. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

I have a 16 foot wide 2.35 screen and my room is between 35 and 40 foot from screen to port hole. The screen is a Harkness Hall mini-perf 1.5 gain. I use a 3 chip DPI Highlite Gold and I have had a few single chippers in there just for giggles. Even with controlled light, you want as much brightness as you can get. Speaking of the DPI Titan 1080p, it looks like a great product. I saw it at Cedia, I believe it was in their booth. I think you could swing it with that one. Don't know about price with their Cinemawide system, though.

The Titan may not be there. But I can most definetely asure you that is the bes in class because of the filtering of excessive freen/blue spectra. I am a big fan of the Runco Vx-55 with the motrised lens rig.

I'm looking at a 133" wide 2.35 curved screen. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

Avoid the belly.

I can assure you that the biggest buzz word this year from Stewart in the Area of 2.35 will be the TORUS. They are even designing a masking system for it.

What the heck here is a promotional material I put together for the local market, if you can ignore/endure the self promotion part, everything else is 100% the truth.

I have meetings every day at ces with Stewart as we get the program off to an auspicious start.

http://cineramax.com/images/Torus-Page.jpg

Taker --
2200 lumens on a 168" 2:35 screen would yield a shade over 26 Ft. Lamberts on a untiy gain screen. Many here would suggest that was more than plenty. On the other hand, not having measured the beast or seen the Runco spec, I would not speculate on the calibrated numbers being at that level.

I would like to thank everyone for the advise. I think I am going to go with the vx-22d. The viewing width of my screen is going to be 175.75" after taking the frame in to account. I found on Runco's site that they have recommended picture size widths of 80"-180" on a 16:9 screen and a Max width of 300" for the VX-22d. I am at the top end of what they recommend but with the 2.35 screen I should have less over all screen area than a 16:9 screen of the same width and should help me even more.

I'll get everything in and see how it looks. If its two dark on the edges or doesn't give the picture I am after I will just send the screen back and have it cut down to a smaller size that will look better.

I don't know how true it is but was told that the VX 1080p PJ's have not shipped yet and all the stats are still being tested (the reason they have not been posted yet) and should start shipping in a week or so. The VX-22d is 500 ANSI lumans more than the TITAN 1080p-250. They didn't have a CR or calibrated ansi lumens numbers. Hmm.... Guess their waiting for the show.

So anyone have any suggestions on the screen material to match up with the size and PJ being used? Still looking at the FireHawk G3 Microperf that has a 1.25gain or would it be better to go with a Ultramatte 150/200 giving a 1.5/2.0 gain white screen?

Peter, can this this stewart torus screen be made acoutically transparent?


Taker:

I can tell you that that projector should clock 2200 ansi lumens calibrated. Definetely not powerful enough for a 168" single curve screen, affectionately called inside one of the largest screen manufactureres the "Belly Screen". As it has a protruding belly in the center.

Him and others recommending this screen ignore that eyesore and the fact that the image is half as bright on the top and bottom of the screen as it is in a horizontal center line.

Now if you want a great 168" 2.35 image with the vx-22 or better yet, if you are not going to be sliding in and out the anamorphic lens, the the DPI Titan is 15% better, simply becuase it's primaries are filtered to achieve near xenon response.

The Titan an isco3 or schneider fixed lens and the Torus Screen from Stewart available under certain conditions. That should be the ultimate screen pj combo.

With the custom ray traced Torus you can go as high as 2.8 gain and still preserve pristine colorimetry.

The Titan may not be there. But I can most definetely asure you that is the bes in class because of the filtering of excessive freen/blue spectra. I am a big fan of the Runco Vx-55 with the motrised lens rig.

Thanks Peter.
The Torus screen makes sense to me but is Stewart even building them yet?
What's up with DPI not being at CES? That's one of the main reasons I was going.

One thing to note on light output and recommended screen sizes. Check with Runco if that is with the cinewide lens in place or not. The reason is each lens will reduce light output. The best lenses should do this with minimal light loss, but it is still a factor, especially if you are playing near the edges of their recommendations. Just something to be aware of.

best regards,
Jerry

On the other hand, not having measured the beast or seen the Runco spec, I would not speculate on the calibrated numbers being at that level.
...but, then again, Jamin will be playing with the first two VX22d's to be installed. :)

Neither DPI nor Runco will be at CES.

Stewart has built Torus screens. Torus screens are not acoustically transparent...they could be made that way; but, you'd be replacing the fabric once a week.

What is a guess on the lumens from the VX22?

Equal to or slightly better than the vx2

Thanks Dennis:

2500 Ansi before calibration, 1227 after

LJG,

Do you have the CR for the VX22d?

For the VX2

Contrast Ratio: CSMS** Contrast Ratio: 271:1;
3100:1 ANSI

Taker:

I can tell you that that projector should clock 2200 ansi lumens calibrated. Definetely not powerful enough for a 168" single curve screen, affectionately called inside one of the largest screen manufactureres the "Belly Screen". As it has a protruding belly in the center.

Him and others recommending this screen ignore that eyesore and the fact that the image is half as bright on the top and bottom of the screen as it is in a horizontal center line.

Now if you want a great 168" 2.35 image with the vx-22 or better yet, if you are not going to be sliding in and out the anamorphic lens, the the DPI Titan is 15% better, simply becuase it's primaries are filtered to achieve near xenon response.

The Titan an isco3 or schneider fixed lens and the Torus Screen from Stewart available under certain conditions. That should be the ultimate screen pj combo.

With the custom ray traced Torus you can go as high as 2.8 gain and still preserve pristine colorimetry.


I have an Issue if EH that has a room that Dennis I beleive did and it has a runco VX2 and a 13ft. 2.35 CIH screen and thought that the new Runco VX22D sould be able to though the same if not better ... one other thing can any body tell me what the replacement bulb cost, if I deceide to go with a runco (vx22D or 44D ) I would like to have a few spares around.. the projector would get used alot in my household..

AS much as I don't subscribe to the hype that Runco uses to market their products, if you're sold on Runco and only Runco, then why not ask a Runco dealer? After all, they know their products the best and have been trained by what Runco feels to be the best. Asking a bunch of non Runco owners will probably give you answers that you don't want to hear as in suggesting other products.

Curt your tone on Runco is quite frankly old and unsubstantiated.

If you have any doubt that Runco is putting together a solid dealer support program to excel at implementing massive amounts of anamorphic installations then download the owners manuals for the vx-55 and compare it to the oem projector on which it's based.

It is a totally different animal. You are not familiar to anamorphic setups, quite frankly I am a lightweight with only two under my belt. But it does not take much to figure that a bunch of thinks can go wrong if you try to use the wrong backup lense "that appears to be the correct backup lense", and we assume that the lens slider system has to be at the same height of the projector when in reality i has to be bellow the projector etc etc.

When you add that to the custom resolutions and the fact that the Runcos work and will have excellent support it is a pleasure to pay a 5K premium (because that is all it is) on an 90-95K projection system, just to have the assurance that the freaking thing will work.

You can download the owners manual here:

http://runco.com/image/manuals/current_manuals/VX44d_55dmanual_v1-3.pdf

It only scratches the surfaces of the documentation Runco provides the dealers to spec the lens etc etc.

Now that being said, I hope the vx-44 and vx-55 don't crap out if one disconnects the vivix processor temporarily to feed it a DVP-6080 at 72FPS.

I have an Issue if EH that has a room that Dennis I beleive did and it has a runco VX2 and a 13ft. 2.35 CIH screen and thought that the new Runco VX22D sould be able to though the same if not better ... one other thing can any body tell me what the replacement bulb cost, if I deceide to go with a runco (vx22D or 44D ) I would like to have a few spares around.. the projector would get used alot in my household..

The christie lamp cost for the vx-44 is $1,791. Not too bad.

Curt your tone on Runco is quite frankly old and unsubstantiated.

If you have any doubt that Runco is putting together a solid dealer support program to excel at implementing massive amounts of anamorphic installations then download the owners manuals for the vx-55 and compare it to the oem projector on which it's based.

It is a totally different animal. You are not familiar to anamorphic setups, quite frankly I am a lightweight with only two under my belt. But it does not take much to figure that a bunch of thinks can go wrong if you try to use the wrong backup lense "that appears to be the correct backup lense", and we assume that the lens slider system has to be at the same height of the projector when in reality i has to be bellow the projector etc etc.

When you add that to the custom resolutions and the fact that the Runcos work and will have excellent support it is a pleasure to pay a 5K premium (because that is all it is) on an 90-95K projection system, just to have the assurance that the freaking thing will work.

You can download the owners manual here:

http://runco.com/image/manuals/current_manuals/VX44d_55dmanual_v1-3.pdf

It only scratches the surfaces of the documentation Runco provides the dealers to spec the lens etc etc.

Now that being said, I hope the vx-44 and vx-55 don't crap out if one disconnects the vivix processor temporarily to feed it a DVP-6080 at 72FPS.

Peter, I think you totally missed my point. In fact it's not far from what you state. My point is EXACTLY that the Runco dealer has been trained to make the best out of a high end product, therefore it makes the most sense to ask a Runco dealer about a high end setup like the one he wants.

Curt your tone on Runco is quite frankly old and unsubstantiated.

What is "old and unsubstantiated" are Runco claims such as: "The Inventor of CinemaScope for the Home (tm)", that CinemaScope is a "Runco Innovation (tm)", "the first to use a line-doubler with a CRT projector (tm)", or any of the upteen ridiculous, over-the-top, Monster Cable-esque claims by this firm.

At least he is no longer claiming he invented home theater. :D

We now know it was Howard Hughes (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=499014).

A bit off topic but maybe one day Ilustrious figures of Home Theater can be nominated to become Digital Patriots.

Senator John Sununu (R-NH) and Representative Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) join Michael Dell as Digital Patriot honorees at the Consumer Electronics Association's (CEA) Third Annual Digital Patriots Dinner.

Celebrate the achievements of these leaders known for championing innovation in consumer technology at this very special event bridging content, policy and products.



Third Annual Digital Patriots Dinner
Tuesday, March 27, 2007
6:30 p.m.
Atrium Hall
Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center
Washington, DC

What is "old and unsubstantiated" are Runco claims such as: "The Inventor of CinemaScope for the Home (tm)", that CinemaScope is a "Runco Innovation (tm)", "the first to use a line-doubler with a CRT projector (tm)", or any of the upteen ridiculous, over-the-top, Monster Cable-esque claims by this firm.


So which person or firm is the originator of these systems and equipment? Back it up with real information please.

I can speak about the "first use of a line doubler with CRT projector".1990.Qualifying For "Home Use" Runco takes the cake. He essentially reconfigured a Nec 7 inch CRT that came with a basic line doubler (a 9K pakage from Nec that was 15K from Runco). Quite frankly that NEC piece was soft as hell. Runco had the bravado of using it on a CIH setup. I had played with the NEC combo and decided not to use it, 3 months later I had a Sony 1270 with an Ikegami line doubler. That, I can tell you was the beginning of VGA class front projection where you could resolve the pixels.

Faroudja priced his first consumer line doubler LD-100 $1,000 over Ikegami's dsc 1050 because his' did 3/2 pulldown.

Nonetheless, the Runco claim (while not resolving the full 640x480 pixels) should be taken as correct for HT.

I would like to thank everyone for the advise. I think I am going to go with the vx-22d. The viewing width of my screen is going to be 175.75" after taking the frame in to account. I found on Runco's site that they have recommended picture size widths of 80"-180" on a 16:9 screen and a Max width of 300" for the VX-22d. I am at the top end of what they recommend but with the 2.35 screen I should have less over all screen area than a 16:9 screen of the same width and should help me even more.

I'll get everything in and see how it looks. If its two dark on the edges or doesn't give the picture I am after I will just send the screen back and have it cut down to a smaller size that will look better.

I don't know how true it is but was told that the VX 1080p PJ's have not shipped yet and all the stats are still being tested (the reason they have not been posted yet) and should start shipping in a week or so. The VX-22d is 500 ANSI lumans more than the TITAN 1080p-250. They didn't have a CR or calibrated ansi lumens numbers. Hmm.... Guess their waiting for the show.

So anyone have any suggestions on the screen material to match up with the size and PJ being used? Still looking at the FireHawk G3 Microperf that has a 1.25gain or would it be better to go with a Ultramatte 150/200 giving a 1.5/2.0 gain white screen?



I would love to see some pics and get you observation of it when your done :cool: