Hi all,

New to this forum and want to purchase a projector for dual use -- as a TV (~50" display) and for use at trade shows (~30") occassionally. Front projectors have a *significant* size/weight advantage over plasma/LCD TVs, and that is very important to me. But I'm confused, and speaking with the salesfolks at the local AV chains have not helped. Actually, they've annoyed me with the garbage they make up. I really wish people would directly state they don't know, rather than lying. Trying one out is not a good option since it seems everyone has a restocking fee, and won't demo it to me first. Argh!

I've researched on this and other forums, but no clear answers for my specific questions, so hopefully someone here can shed some light on this subject (pun definitely intended! :-)

Under US$1k would be ideal, and various options I'm considering in this range are Optoma EP719, EZ Pro 739, HD70, Sharp XR-10X, XR-20X, XG-MB70X, Hitachi CP-X260, Viewsonic PJ558D, Mitsubishi HD1000U, etc. I would use this on a coffee-table. Yes, I am aware of the bulb life limit and that's fine for me since my expected usage is about 2-3 hours per day. Changing a bulb every year is fine. And I have other TVs in other parts of the house.

The big unanswered question is about brightness/contrast requirements -- are these projectors for home-theater (dark room) use only? What brightness and contrast levels would I need for a regular living room, or a well-lit trade show? I expect and hope that using it for a smaller display (rather than close to 100" as others do) would improve brightness. I can block the direct sunlight, but it won't be a dark-room still. Also, I understand that each mfgr has their own standard for brightness/contrast. Is there any way to better compare one vs. the other?

Thanks,
-Neil.

The HD1000 will do pretty well in a room with some light as long as it iin't too bright. Why limit to 50" though? Not sure if most projectors can focus for a 30" screen though. You will have to demo them.

For trade shows, it might work if you use a high contrast screen, but them again it might not focus on a 30"screen.

Best bet might be a 42" plasma instead.

If you shade a light and block as much sunlight as you can (especially hard direct sunlight) you can get a very nice ambient light image, especially if you use a light grey screen or high gain grey or silver screen. Keeping hard direct light off of the screen is the key to getting a good ambient light image.

Good point re: 30", but I don't mind going bigger for trade shows if necessary. Actually, typical trade-show booth is 10' x 10', and I'd keep it a few feet away from people (with a table in-between), so say I have 6'-7' of projection distance. Whatever screen I can get in that size would be fine, even if it's 50". I've seen projectors in trade shows for this purpose for over 10 years, and remember them being fairly small units and fairly close to the screen, but never paid attention to brand/model/etc back then.

Curious what about the HD1000 made you single that one out. Just that you're familiar with it, or some specific specification that you like?

For the house, I somehow seem to move quite a bit and the TV is always the hassle to move. Even the sofas are not such a problem. I almost bought a Samsung 42" plasma last week, but held back at the last minute, to see if could get away with a projector, since I need one for work anyway. Right now I'm renting and was told by the landlord that she intends to move back in after a year. So that also means I don't want to spend money on dark curtains etc. The best way for me to describe the place is with photos, but this forum won't let me post links until I've had a few more posts, so I'll get back to you with them later.

Cheers,
-Neil.

I should mention that for screen, I was planning on doing a DIY screen, as the few posts I've read about it indicated significant bang for the buck, and I can make the time for this. Should I use a commercial screen for my situation still? You'll be able to answer this after I link the photos, coming up after this post...

The photos...

This one shows the Main Wall (http://www.narwani.net/neil/stuff/Proj-Pos-00.jpg) I would like to project on. The yellow rectangle is where the screen would be, but not to scale. For reference, the small TV on the floor is 25" diag.

This is another view of the same wall (http://www.narwani.net/neil/stuff/Proj-Pos-01.jpg) .

This is a view of the opposing wall (http://www.narwani.net/neil/stuff/Proj-Pos-02.jpg) . This is my primary light offender. Yes, that's a lake, so you know I want to keep it open as much as possible. ;)

This is the opposing wall with the blinds closed (http://www.narwani.net/neil/stuff/Proj-Pos-03.jpg) . They are those white cellular blinds, so some light comes through (and I think that's actually good). It does eliminate direct light. There is still some light from the windows on top, which I may be able to cover with some adhesive frosted film (I already have some), but there is no real direct sunlight there since there is a shaded cover outside this window.

Finally, as an alternate option, here is an adjacent dining area (http://www.narwani.net/neil/stuff/Proj-Pos-04.jpg) , which will not be used as a dining room. If I lift the chandelier, I could make it the TV area. But only prob here is that I can't see it when I'm in the kitchen. :(

So now, how does that change things? Is this better or worse than you had pictured?

The dining area(red frame) looks like it might be shaded from any direct sunlight. Something to consider.

I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered, your goal of having one pj that works well in a home theater and at the trade show may result in you being unhappy with one or the other. There is a strong distinction here between what to buy for home theater and what to buy for business use. I guess I'd say get a home theater pj and let the trade show performance suffer, but that may not be so good for business. ;) I think most of those you listed are business pj's. You can often tell by the rez, since most home theater pj's will have a native widescreen aspect ratio (853x480, 1280x720, 1920x1080) while business ones will have 4:3 aspect (800x600, 1024x768).

How about buying 2 pj's? I think you can get a business model real cheap. You'll likely break your $1k budget by doing this (tho possibly not by much and with the right deal maybe not at all), but you'll probably be a lot happier that way. Certainly you could get one of the budget hd models for $1k and leave it at home, and get a business pj for under $500 to take on the road.

Also that room is definitely not a prime candidate for front projection. Will you want to use it in the daytime at all? I have a similar room with lots of windows, and on a sunny day the pj is rendered useless. Of course I have made no special attempt to block the light, just have the same type of blinds you do. If it's overcast it's watchable but not really enjoyable. I only use it at night and then it's looks great! :)

For business use you want lots of lumens. For home theater you don't need nearly as much, even 750 is enough, in a dark room. By shrinking the screen you will increase brightness but not sure if it will be enough. Check here for more info:
http://www.projectorcentral.com
Here's the calculator specifically for that mits hd1000u, a home theater model. Looks like if you shrink the screen to 60" you will increase the brightness signifigantly, which should be enough to make it usable at home during the day. A high gain screen would make it even better. But that may not be enough at the trade show. They call those business models "light cannons" for a reason!
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HD1000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

As for a better way to compare fudged specs, if there is I'd like to hear it too! I think you just have to try to see them for yourself, or go by what people say here who have compared them (dig thru the archives)

Good luck!

I'm no expert...
Uh-oh :)


... your goal of having one pj that works well in a home theater and at the trade show may result in you being unhappy with one or the other. There is a strong distinction here between what to buy for home theater and what to buy for business use. I guess I'd say get a home theater pj and let the trade show performance suffer, but that may not be so good for business. ;) ...
For business use you want lots of lumens. For home theater you don't need nearly as much, even 750 is enough, in a dark room.

I was expecting that home use would be more demanding in terms of specs (and yes, I would definitely want to use it in the daytime). This is not a dark-room HT, and expected that the home would've needed more lumens. I could make a simple hood/shield for the screen for trade shows. Also, my business need would not be until summer, and not as critical on specs (resolution, etc) as it would be a powerpoint slide show with large text and photos. Original thought for biz was to use my 19" LCD monitor, but if I can get a bit bigger by using my home projector, then why not -- I'd just need to make sure I have some form of VGA input on the projector (which I haven't been checking so far). Also expect that as long as it can display 720 or 768 vertical lines, it would be good for home, and my business need is flexible.


How about buying 2 pj's? I think you can get a business model real cheap. You'll likely break your $1k budget ...

I expect to use it for business maybe 4-5 times this year, so dedicated is financially painful. But let's change something ... I was about to drop $1200 on a 42" plasma last weekend. Add, say $50 for a home-made wall mount. I thought that a PJ would be so much nicer (dual-use and physically smaller), and 50" would be better for my room. If I were to raise my budget to that $1250, would that improve my choices? Still think (hope) I can use whatever I get for home for biz.

BTW, from that calculator, seems like the HD1000U is limited to how small of an image it can produce, but others (Optoma HD70, HD72, etc) can go much smaller. Perhaps I need to go with one of those instead.


... I think you just have to try to see them for yourself...
Therein lies the issue. If only I can find a local store without a restocking fee, I'd be set.

Thanks,
-Neil.

Ding! I just found something interesting -- Costco has no restocking fee (I called to verify) and they show 8 projectors on their website. Think I'll go shopping today and actually try something. Although a bit higher than I have been planning on, the Epson Powerlite 400 seems intriguing.

Cheers,
-Neil.

I heard that Costco started carrying the HD70 also, maybe try both and take back the one you don't want. I'll bet you keep the Optoma though :)

Ding! I just found something interesting -- Costco has no restocking fee (I called to verify) and they show 8 projectors on their website. Think I'll go shopping today and actually try something. Although a bit higher than I have been planning on, the Epson Powerlite 400 seems intriguing.

Cheers,
-Neil.



Not to poop on your parade but you could do better for cheaper..

Just got back from Costco. They had only 2 models -- Optoma DX605, and Epson MovieMate 33 (which had built-in speakers and DVD player, and an 80" screen), neither of which meet my resolution requirements, and neither of which are on their website. But a rep there told me that many items on the website are not available in stores.

I did not buy either one, but thinking that trying one out would give me an indication if these specs are within range for my application, or if I'd need 10x the lumens and contrast. (You know what I mean). ;)

Also, I've been searching for the contrast ratio of the Epson, but can't find it yet.


danieloneil01 -- I like that statement, but would you care to specify some models. Feel free to PM me.

Cheers,
-Neil.

You can order the Optoma HD70 on Costco.com and return it to the store if you don't like it. I would skip both of those projectors you saw in the store.

Looking at that wall, I will be after a week at 50" you are going to make the image even bigger :) I can see you going at least 90"

You can order the Optoma HD70 on Costco.com and return it to the store if you don't like it. I would skip both of those projectors you saw in the store.

Looking at that wall, I will be after a week at 50" you are going to make the image even bigger :) I can see you going at least 90"
I agree...it just has more effect, well bigger

And I'm also going to have to ... errr... ahhh ... agree now. :o Just went back and picked up the DX605. 2000 lumens and 2500:1 CR. Only 480 lines, but I really want to get a gauge for brightness/contrast at this point.

I just set it up near to me, aimed at a wall (no screen yet) and adjusted the focus, not really targetting a specific image size, and started up a movie (Aeon Flux on an ultra-cheap Cyberhome DVD player). Wow! This is nice! A few tweaks of brightness/contrast and even sweeter! I like the image size too! So I measured the image on the wall ... 70". Ack!!! So skip everything I said about 50". :o And yeah, I wouldn't mind going a bit bigger. :eek:

Honestly though, I wonder why I need 720p, but perhaps I need to see other movies first. Compared to the Samsung S4253 42" plasma I almost bought last weekend, this PJ does not have the jagged edges that I noticed on the plasma. And that was one of the best-imaged plasmas I saw among many others. But the PJ also does not have the brightness/contrast of the plasma.
Still a very nice image though.

But it's 10pm here and the real test will come tomorrow when that big yellow ball is in the sky. I'll be back to ya'll then...

Cheers,
-Neil.