My classic controller just arrived in the mail so I had to take it around for a spin. I tried "Super Mario Bros." and found that this controller makes it pratically impossible to play the game well!

As we all probably know, the game had two main buttons on the NES:
B - Run & fireballs
A - Jump

Most of the time I played this game I had the tip of my thumb pressing down on the 'B' button and used the inner part of the thumb to hit the jump button when needed. I'd imagine this is how most people played, and you could also play this way on the SNES All-Stars version and on the Wii VC using the wiimote controller.

Not with the classic controller.

Imagine you placed your thumb on a controller and take notice to the imaginary line that your thumb creates. That is where the buttons should line up. Now, imagine a line perpendicular to your thumb and that's where these buttons now lie! It's now IMPOSSIBLE to play SMB with efficient use of the run button unless you contort your right hand into an uncomfortable angle. (If this is too hard to visualize I'll try adding pictures)

Since many other NES games used their A/B buttons in the same way this means the classic controller will make playback of many NES games an exercise in frustration.

Nintendo was more concerned with mapping the button names to the eqivalent buttons on the SNES controller than in making the controller intuitive to use. Unbelievable. What makes this even more annoying is that if the Wii provided a customizable settings for the game emulators this wouldn't be an issue.

Sheesh, Had I known Nintendo had fouled up the controller like this I never would have gotten one. At least the left analog stick works as a d-pad in NES games instead of being disabled.

Does the GC controller work for Wii games when it calls for the classic controller?

My classic controller just arrived in the mail so I had to take it around for a spin. I tried "Super Mario Bros." and found that this controller makes it pratically impossible to play the game well!

As we all probably know, the game had two main buttons on the NES:
B - Run & fireballs
A - Jump

Most of the time I played this game I had the tip of my thumb pressing down on the 'B' button and used the inner part of the thumb to hit the jump button when needed. I'd imagine this is how most people played, and you could also play this way on the SNES All-Stars version and on the Wii VC using the wiimote controller.

Not with the classic controller.

Imagine you placed your thumb on a controller and take notice to the imaginary line that your thumb creates. That is where the buttons should line up. Now, imagine a line perpendicular to your thumb and that's where these buttons now lie! It's now IMPOSSIBLE to play SMB with efficient use of the run button unless you contort your right hand into an uncomfortable angle. (If this is too hard to visualize I'll try adding pictures)

Since many other NES games used their A/B buttons in the same way this means the classic controller will make playback of many NES games an exercise in frustration.

Nintendo was more concerned with mapping the button names to the eqivalent buttons on the SNES controller than in making the controller intuitive to use. Unbelievable. What makes this even more annoying is that if the Wii provided a customizable settings for the game emulators this wouldn't be an issue.

Sheesh, Had I known Nintendo had fouled up the controller like this I never would have gotten one. At least the left analog stick works as a d-pad in NES games instead of being disabled.

I agree entirely with you about the button mapping. Every NES game ported to Super NES used the B->Y and X->A button mapping. New SMB on the DS is this way too. I just play NES and TG16 games with the wiimote.

Glad this bugs someone else too.

My classic controller just arrived in the mail so I had to take it around for a spin. I tried "Super Mario Bros." and found that this controller makes it pratically impossible to play the game well!

As we all probably know, the game had two main buttons on the NES:
B - Run & fireballs
A - Jump

Most of the time I played this game I had the tip of my thumb pressing down on the 'B' button and used the inner part of the thumb to hit the jump button when needed. I'd imagine this is how most people played, and you could also play this way on the SNES All-Stars version and on the Wii VC using the wiimote controller.

Not with the classic controller.

Imagine you placed your thumb on a controller and take notice to the imaginary line that your thumb creates. That is where the buttons should line up. Now, imagine a line perpendicular to your thumb and that's where these buttons now lie! It's now IMPOSSIBLE to play SMB with efficient use of the run button unless you contort your right hand into an uncomfortable angle. (If this is too hard to visualize I'll try adding pictures)

Since many other NES games used their A/B buttons in the same way this means the classic controller will make playback of many NES games an exercise in frustration.

Nintendo was more concerned with mapping the button names to the eqivalent buttons on the SNES controller than in making the controller intuitive to use. Unbelievable. What makes this even more annoying is that if the Wii provided a customizable settings for the game emulators this wouldn't be an issue.

Sheesh, Had I known Nintendo had fouled up the controller like this I never would have gotten one. At least the left analog stick works as a d-pad in NES games instead of being disabled.

Just turn the wiimote sideways, it works nice.

My classic controller just arrived in the mail so I had to take it around for a spin. I tried "Super Mario Bros." and found that this controller makes it pratically impossible to play the game well!

As we all probably know, the game had two main buttons on the NES:
B - Run & fireballs
A - Jump

Most of the time I played this game I had the tip of my thumb pressing down on the 'B' button and used the inner part of the thumb to hit the jump button when needed. I'd imagine this is how most people played, and you could also play this way on the SNES All-Stars version and on the Wii VC using the wiimote controller.

Not with the classic controller.

Imagine you placed your thumb on a controller and take notice to the imaginary line that your thumb creates. That is where the buttons should line up. Now, imagine a line perpendicular to your thumb and that's where these buttons now lie! It's now IMPOSSIBLE to play SMB with efficient use of the run button unless you contort your right hand into an uncomfortable angle. (If this is too hard to visualize I'll try adding pictures)

Since many other NES games used their A/B buttons in the same way this means the classic controller will make playback of many NES games an exercise in frustration.

Nintendo was more concerned with mapping the button names to the eqivalent buttons on the SNES controller than in making the controller intuitive to use. Unbelievable. What makes this even more annoying is that if the Wii provided a customizable settings for the game emulators this wouldn't be an issue.

Sheesh, Had I known Nintendo had fouled up the controller like this I never would have gotten one. At least the left analog stick works as a d-pad in NES games instead of being disabled.

Yeah, they fouled up horribly considering turning the Wii Remote sideways emulates a NES controller almost perfectly! :p

Geez, and to think you didn't even need to buy anything extra to play the old NES games. How dare they!!

It's funny, I have no problem with the classic remote with this game.. I must have small hands... :)

Not sure when these are shipping, but there are adapters coming to use your old NES gamepad with the Wii..

http://www.retrousb.com/wii.html

Yeah, they fouled up horribly considering turning the Wii Remote sideways emulates a NES controller almost perfectly! :p

If they're going to design a controller that supports NES games then it should be designed in an ergonomic way. Now the NES and wiimote aren't exactly ergonomic, but at least they aren't openly hostile to the hands. The button layout on the classic pad is actually hostile to NES games.


Geez, and to think you didn't even need to buy anything extra to play the old NES games. How dare they!!
Actually I bought it for Castlevania 4 - an SNES game that was impossible to play on the GCN Wavebird for similar reasons. I didn't know until after buying the controller that the Konami developers were kind enough back in the early 90s to allow the user to customize their button layout. As far as I'm concerned every game should have been designed with this feature. It's easy to implement and is probably a major benefit to people with hand deformaties.

Oh, and the main reason I actually performed the purchase of this controller was because Nintendo eff'd up my VC content and points and they made it up to me by giving me $20 of online store credit.

It's funny, I have no problem with the classic remote with this game.. I must have small hands... :)

Sounds to me that you didn't play the NES games when they originally came out or the complete change in button control would really screw you up as well. Wait until you play an NES game that requires simultaneous control of both buttons and then you'll notice how difficult to classic controller actually is.

I actually believe a smaller hand makes this situation even worse becuase I fooled around with SMB again last night and found that if I put my thumb in the middle of the A/B buttons I can control both without holding the controller from the top with my right hand. It's still nowhere near optimal, but until Nintendo updates the VC emulator to fix this bug it's the best it's gonna get.

Sounds to me that you didn't play the NES games when they originally came out or the complete change in button control would really screw you up as well. Wait until you play an NES game that requires simultaneous control of both buttons and then you'll notice how difficult to classic controller actually is.

I actually believe a smaller hand makes this situation even worse becuase I fooled around with SMB again last night and found that if I put my thumb in the middle of the A/B buttons I can control both without holding the controller from the top with my right hand. It's still nowhere near optimal, but until Nintendo updates the VC emulator to fix this bug it's the best it's gonna get.

As someone else mentioned above, have you tried to turn the wiimote sideways and use it like a a regular nes pad?

As someone else mentioned above, have you tried to turn the wiimote sideways and use it like a a regular nes pad?

Yes. See above:
[QUOTE]If they're going to design a controller that supports NES games then it should be designed in an ergonomic way. Now the NES and wiimote aren't exactly ergonomic, but at least they aren't openly hostile to the hands. The button layout on the classic pad is actually hostile to NES games.[QUOTE]

The fact that the wiimote can play NES games is irrelevant because I am specifically discussing the classic controller that was designed to play NES games. I blows me away that the controller is perfectly capable of supporting a logical button layout but Nintendo went out of its way to map the NES buttons to bad classic controller ones.

I just noticed another stupid thing about the button NES mapping: the Y and X buttons are mapped to the same NES buttons as same A and B button that would fall underneath the thumb when pressing the Y or X button. If the X and Y buttons were flipped then the user could have the choice of the three control methods:

1) Using the existing bad A & B layouts that cannot be controlled properly simultaneuously
2) Using the X & A buttons which would comfortably allow both buttons to be controlled simultaneuously
3) Using the Y & B buttons - same as #2 only with reversed mapping

The way they mapped X and Y results in only one control method choice! What where they thinking?

There were so many ways Nintendo could have done this right because, button mapping aside, the classic controller really nice.

Yep, using the actual B and A buttons on that control for B and A really sucks, cause you want to hold B down with the tip of your thumb for making Mario run, then hit A with a lower part of your thumb to jump. Can't quite make that work with the classic control. I think they should have used Y for B, and B for A.

I just noticed another stupid thing about the button NES mapping: the Y and X buttons are mapped to the same NES buttons as same A and B button that would fall underneath the thumb when pressing the Y or X button. If the X and Y buttons were flipped then the user could have the choice of the three control methods:

1) Using the existing bad A & B layouts that cannot be controlled properly simultaneuously
2) Using the X & A buttons which would comfortably allow both buttons to be controlled simultaneuously
3) Using the Y & B buttons - same as #2 only with reversed mapping

The way they mapped X and Y results in only one control method choice! What where they thinking?

There were so many ways Nintendo could have done this right because, button mapping aside, the classic controller really nice.

...so shut up and use the Wii Remote on its side. You act like theychould've designed the classic controller with ONLY the NES controller in mind. They already had an alternative in place in the form of the Wii Remote, so the classic controller being used as a NES controller was probably very much an afterthought.

Sorry to be so blunt and maybe crude, but it seems like you are banging your head against the wall! Personally, if I were only wanting to play NES VC games, I would never buy a classic controller, but that's me. ;)

...so shut up and use the Wii Remote on its side. You act like theychould've designed the classic controller with ONLY the NES controller in mind. They already had an alternative in place in the form of the Wii Remote, so the classic controller being used as a NES controller was probably very much an afterthought.

Sorry to be so blunt and maybe crude, but it seems like you are banging your head against the wall! Personally, if I were only wanting to play NES VC games, I would never buy a classic controller, but that's me. ;)

lol, thanks.

NO actually I did. Been playing video games simce 1980.... I just seem to be adapting well to the new design....

...so shut up and use the Wii Remote on its side. You act like theychould've designed the classic controller with ONLY the NES controller in mind.
That's because you're placing words in my mouth in order for you to have a point.


They already had an alternative in place in the form of the Wii Remote, so the classic controller being used as a NES controller was probably very much an afterthought.

The fact that the wiimote has NES support is irrelevant. The fact that NES support on the classic controller was an afterthought is irrelevant. The classic controller has the potential to easily be a great NES controller. I have already listed that information above, but if someone's just going to have the kneejerk reaction that Nintendo can do no wrong and that nothing can ever be improved then there's little more I can say.


Sorry to be so blunt and maybe crude, but it seems like you are banging your head against the wall! Personally, if I were only wanting to play NES VC games, I would never buy a classic controller, but that's me. ;)

I don't remember if I mentioned this, but the only reason I bought the classic controller was because Nintendo screwed up my virtual console account and made good on it by crediting me with $20 in online store credit instead of 2000 virtual console points. Since Nintendo also chose a bad default button map layout for SNES games on the GCN controller, I decided to get a classic controller. I have lots of NES games and I had this crazy idea that I should be consistent with my VC use instead of having a completely different controller for every emulator on the system.

I have lots of NES games and I had this crazy idea that I should be consistent with my VC use instead of having a completely different controller for every emulator on the system.

If you've got very demanding requirements of the controller for each console, you're going to have to use different controllers for each. Such is the nature of a multi-console emulator. The classic controller isn't designed to be perfect for one the five systems it supports, it's designed to function acceptably on all of them.

Moving the buttons closer together to support the type of play most of us older guys remember in SMB would hurt it in another area. Being able to come up with custom controller mappings would be nice, admittedly.

I'd love to know, outside of a button-mapping utility, that you propose they make the classic controller good for N64, SNES, and NES games?

what if someone didn't want the buttons auto-mapped like they were done on SNES ports?

You really are being childish about this, you want the buttons exactly as they were, the Wii remote you ALREADY HAVE has them as you remember, in an equally un-ergonomic style, just like the original!

I have the classic controller as well, and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole for NES titles.

You're just making this hard on yourself

How about this thought?

The "Classic Controller" was designed as a marriage of the S-NES, N64, and Game Cube Controllers with no thought put into NES functionality. Why would they, if the Wiimote is nearly identical to the original NES when turned sideways?

Use the remote for NES. End of thread.

By the way, I surely don't think Nintendo can do no wrong (see purple lunch box), but this definitely is not it...

How about this thought?

The "Classic Controller" was designed as a marriage of the S-NES, N64, and Game Cube Controllers with no thought put into NES functionality. Why would they, if the Wiimote is nearly identical to the original NES when turned sideways?

I'm totally fascinated by the abundance of fanboy Nintendo-can-do-no-wrong reactions to my very logical position. So please entertain my curiosity a bit more here.


OK, Nintendo has created a classic controller. This controller is a superset of the original NES controller's functionality because it contains a D-pad, two action buttons, and two utility buttons. The controller is perfectly capable of being a excellent ergonomic alternative to the clunky original NES controller and the bulky wiimote. So why, then, is it wise to pick a button mapping layout that ruins the ergonomic potential of the controller? Keep in mind that the following arguments are invalid:

1) Because the wiimote is already an NES controller - this argument is invalid because this does not mean the classic controller cannot be one as well. It's also discredited by Nintendo, the maker of Nintendo, because they added NES support to this controller. They obviously didn't want GCN support in the controller because they disabled it for those games.

2) Because they chose the same button names as used on the NES to avoid confusion - This argument is also invalid for two reasons. One, the controller does not contain a 'C', '1', '2', and 'Run' button as seen on Genesis and TGX games yet life has gone on. Second, the NES did not have an analog stick, X, or Y button yet Nintendo wisely chose to enable them on this controller, nor does this argument answer why the X & Y weren't flipped to automatically create a multiple configurations.

3) The classic controller layout has to be feasible for 5 different consoles - This is invalid because we're specifically discussing the NES and the controller has the potential to support that controller perfectly.

4) You're just being childish - Attacks against my character are irrelevant and do not address the issue. Personally I find it childish when someone blindly loves something so much that they are unwilling to critically examine the topic. Some have said that this is not what they are doing, but due to their lack of valid rebuttals one can't do anything but doubt those claims. Everything can be improved, and the system updates of the Wii mean that this can be easily improved. Sitting back and being afraid to voice an opinion because it is different from the all-mighty Nintendo's is so wasteful. Are you really sitting there hoping that Reggie Fils-Aime will someday respond to one of your posts with an "attaboy" followed by a smilie?



I've never understood the apologist mentality that comes out of the mouths (or fingertips) of fanboys. I see this a lot when it comes to Microsoft bugs, but I've also seen it recently with the Sky Cannon bug on Zelda that ruins all of your gameplay. I've found faaaaaaar more people blaming the player for having the audacity for stumbling into the bug and becoming angry about it than I have seen people blaming Nintendo for the bug. I just find this whole mentality bizarre so it's doubful that I'll understand any arguments against my classic controller position.

I think we should all sit in a circle and smoke a fat one!!! :)

I'm totally fascinated by the abundance of fanboy Nintendo-can-do-no-wrong reactions to my very logical position. So please entertain my curiosity a bit more here...

3) The classic controller layout has to be feasible for 5 different consoles - This is invalid because we're specifically discussing the NES and the controller has the potential to support that controller perfectly...

It's not a "fanboy" reaction, nor is it invalid to point out that you're talking about a controller that is a comprimise between five consoles with completely different controllers.

How would you make it "perfect" for the NES without comprismising the other four? If you're talking about custom mapping, then yes, I agree with you that they dropped the ball there. To this day it drives me nuts that I can't simply swap the A and B functionality on my GCN version of Mega Man Anniversary Collection, especially since Capcom swapped the original mapping.

If you're talking about changing the physical aspects of the controller, then it's back to the comprimise point.

3) The classic controller layout has to be feasible for 5 different consoles - This is invalid because we're specifically discussing the NES and the controller has the potential to support that controller perfectly.
Then you've totally invalidated your argument; the Wii remote IS a NES controller when turned on its side. Why discuss the Classic offering from Nintendo at all if we're only discussing the NES? You're arguing from 2 sides, and only making half a point on either one.

this is the worst thread ever.

...it's doubful that I'll understand any arguments against my classic controller position.

So why even post if you don't want anyone to disagree with you. I DON'T disagree with you, I just think you're being silly by refusing to take the perfectly good alternative of the Wii remote for all of your NES games. Then, you wouldn't have to even worry about how the buttons were mapped. That is all, I'm not defending Nintendo in any way. By the way, has your head made it through the wall yet?

2nd that this is the dumbest thread ever. :D

It's not a "fanboy" reaction, nor is it invalid to point out that you're talking about a controller that is a comprimise between five consoles with completely different controllers.

How would you make it "perfect" for the NES without comprismising the other four? If you're talking about custom mapping, then yes, I agree with you that they dropped the ball there. To this day it drives me nuts that I can't simply swap the A and B functionality on my GCN version of Mega Man Anniversary Collection, especially since Capcom swapped the original mapping.

If you're talking about changing the physical aspects of the controller, then it's back to the comprimise point.
That was exactly what I was going for as well.

Sure they didn't disable NES capabilities on the classic controller, there was no reason to, even IF you could use the wiimote for it, and obviously need a wiimote to use the classic controller. Why? because there was no reason to disable it, it has more then enough capability to handle the NES' simple inputs.

But you consistently skirt the issue on HOW exactly you propose that they add NES functionality to the classic controller without compromising the rest of the controllers functionality, which happens to be more in tune with the other systems as a whole.

Your argument is almost up there with "why does playing counterstrike with my 360 USB controller suck... it lets me play it, so it should work better [...] sure I have a keyboard that works even better as a control interface for said system, but if the XBOX controller CAN control it, it should do it better!"

Granted that comment is riddled with hyperbole and conjecture, but it still stands to reason, why argue an amalgamation of 5 systems controllers doesn't do one as well as the rest, when you already have a controller sufficient to control that one deficient system? ESPECIALLY when you have offered no good solution to how said controller could work better in all respects, and not cause another system's control to become deficient

So why even post if you don't want anyone to disagree with you.

I was actually hoping there'd be more people on this board who were interested in discussions more sophisticated than "Nintendo is super" "I agree! Nintendo is super dooper!" My intent on posting was to either:

1) Create some awareness that might eventually get to someone who can make a change. (Heck with all the fanboys throwing a hissy fit over the fact that I don't absolutely love Nintendo's decision, it's keeping my thread alive and therefore more likely to be seen by someone who could make a change. I know from experience that reactions to products posted on this site have been actually taken into consideration by *the powers that be* for some products.)

2) Hear some intelligent items to counter mine. Key word *intelligent*. All I've seen are statements made out of blind fanboyism. I articulated by a series of popular counterarguments are invalid and what do I continue to see? Those same counterarguments!


I DON'T disagree with you, I just think you're being silly by refusing to take the perfectly good alternative of the Wii remote for all of your NES games.

*sigh*


Then, you wouldn't have to even worry about how the buttons were mapped. That is all, I'm not defending Nintendo in any way. By the way, has your head made it through the wall yet?

It's starting to hurt, but it's not completely through yet. Sheesh! Remind me to never challenge fanboy dogma every again!

2) Hear some intelligent items to counter mine. Key word *intelligent*. All I've seen are statements made out of blind fanboyism. I articulated by a series of popular counterarguments are invalid and what do I continue to see? Those same counterarguments!
You're the only flinging around "fanboy" without anything to back it up. Read post #26 again (or for the first time).

TSure they didn't disable NES capabilities on the classic controller, there was no reason to, even IF you could use the wiimote for it, and obviously need a wiimote to use the classic controller. Why? because there was no reason to disable it, it has more then enough capability to handle the NES' simple inputs.

If they're going to implement it they ought to do it right. It's not like it would require modifying the form factor.



But you consistently skirt the issue on HOW exactly you propose that they add NES functionality to the classic controller without compromising the rest of the controllers functionality, which happens to be more in tune with the other systems as a whole.

You mean like here from post #1 where I suggest how it should be implemented:
Imagine you placed your thumb on a controller and take notice to the imaginary line that your thumb creates. That is where the buttons should line up.

What makes this even more annoying is that if the Wii provided a customizable settings for the game emulators this wouldn't be an issue

Or like from here in post #12 where I suggest how it should be implemented?
I just noticed another stupid thing about the button NES mapping: the Y and X buttons are mapped to the same NES buttons as same A and B button that would fall underneath the thumb when pressing the Y or X button. If the X and Y buttons were flipped then the user could have the choice of the three control methods:


So three times I mention solutions requiring nothing more than a software change and the entire point of post 12 was a listing of solutions. Don't worry, the button mapping of the NES layout won't magically affect the button mapping of any of the other consoles.


Granted that comment is riddled with hyperbole and conjecture, but it still stands to reason, why argue an amalgamation of 5 systems controllers doesn't do one as well as the rest, when you already have a controller sufficient to control that one deficient system? ESPECIALLY when you have offered no good solution to how said controller could work better in all respects, and not cause another system's control to become deficient

Your argument based on the multiple-console nature of the classic controller was addressed and discredited in post #23 item #3. The second portion of your argument was mentioned earlier in this post and already discredited.



Lots of people seemed shocked by my mentioning of blind fanboyism being the root of all the disagreements over my postion. I ask you, if you read a response like ac39's that was vehemently against your comment yet filled with statements that show he never even bothered to read your comments, how could you not dismiss that comment on blind fanboyism? This post by ac39 is pratically a parody of the type of post that kind of person would write.

I do ever so love how "fanboy" is thrown about if anyone makes a comment seemingly in favor, or in defense of anything in the general direction of a specific console manufacturer. You used to have to earn the moniker "fanboy", now it's hard not to be one, or more than one, in any given day :rolleyes:

scs0 you have conveniently avoided repeated requests to explain your solution by myself and others multiple times, and have yet to even acknoledge their existance.

Rather, you keep attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you as a "fanboy" while repeatedly stating that you came here to have people agree with you, and the fact that they don't makes them a fanboy. If you want people to agree with you, the internet is most certainly not the place.

Oh and I almost forgot... you deemed certain responses "invalid", seemingly because you disagree with the... how should I put it, "common sensical nature" of their base.

1) Because the wiimote is already an NES controller - this argument is invalid because this does not mean the classic controller cannot be one as well. It's also discredited by Nintendo, the maker of Nintendo, because they added NES support to this controller. They obviously didn't want GCN support in the controller because they disabled it for those games.

You are right, the fact that the Wii remote functions as such is NOT a valid reason in and of itself that the classic controller can not also retain the same functionality. However, when you look at the fact that the wii remote was designed for wii functionality, and happenned to inheret the horizontal layout of the classic nintendo controller, while the classic controller, as I've stated before, is the amalgamation of 5 different controllers, it should be expected that one would be a little better at what it does than the other.

Do you honestly expect a controller primarily designed aroudn simplicity, and one main system wouldn't be more accurate than one designed around 5?

They disabled GCN capabilities on the classic controller most likely for one if not more reasons:
1) GC BC was a major design choice and selling point of the Wii, GCN accessories are still in production and money is still to be made from their purchase. NES controller on the other hand may be a little hard to come by if you looked recently.
2) The GC controller was basically the most complex nintendo controller to date. Was it similar to the N64 controller? sure, but they were most definately different, and adding it's equal functionality to the already well-designed (by all standards but your own) classic controller, it could have only made the other systems worse.

While for the NES, you're talking about a 8 button setup, the D pad (consisting of 4 inputs), start and select, and two buttons. The classic controller obviously has this inate ability thanks to it's design, so what good is to come of disallowing NES input via that controller?

2) Because they chose the same button names as used on the NES to avoid confusion - This argument is also invalid for two reasons. One, the controller does not contain a 'C', '1', '2', and 'Run' button as seen on Genesis and TGX games yet life has gone on. Second, the NES did not have an analog stick, X, or Y button yet Nintendo wisely chose to enable them on this controller, nor does this argument answer why the X & Y weren't flipped to automatically create a multiple configurations.

While this argument actually has some merit (if I'm not mistaken, the right analog stick doubles as all 4 directions of C, so in a way it does exist, just under a different (non written) name.

However how would you propose this? by adding a keybinding application? or by automatically setting these buttons to a way you personally deem viable, which may very well annoy another large subsection of the populus.

Should you go with the key-binding route, then either there has to be a shim in-between the emulator (VC) and the Wii interface that takes these settings, or the games themselves have to be re-coded to allow for this (obviously a pretty daunting and delaying task). So really only the prior would be viable, while I agree it'd be the best solution, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that Nintendo would think "well if someone wanted us to go through all of that trouble, just to play NES games, I'm sure they'll just turn the wii-mote horizontally being that it's really the only compatible system that DOESN'T easily fit the design of the classic controller"... but I think we've already touched on the COMMON SENSE involved there.

3) The classic controller layout has to be feasible for 5 different consoles - This is invalid because we're specifically discussing the NES and the controller has the potential to support that controller perfectly.

Pretty much touched on above, moving buttons would ruin the functionality of other systems, so only key-mapping software is viable. Therefore the fact that the controller is a hybrid of all 5 should in itself NOT be inadmissible, because that most certainly has much to do with it's final design choice, however that does not effect the lack of key-mapping options, of which I highly doubt anyone here can say for certainty were not done (maybe again because that's an AWEFUL lot of work to facilitate the minority that refuse to use the better controller for the problem that software would solve)

4) You're just being childish - Attacks against my character are irrelevant and do not address the issue. Personally I find it childish when someone blindly loves something so much that they are unwilling to critically examine the topic. Some have said that this is not what they are doing, but due to their lack of valid rebuttals one can't do anything but doubt those claims. Everything can be improved, and the system updates of the Wii mean that this can be easily improved. Sitting back and being afraid to voice an opinion because it is different from the all-mighty Nintendo's is so wasteful. Are you really sitting there hoping that Reggie Fils-Aime will someday respond to one of your posts with an "attaboy" followed by a smilie?

While I haven't personally attacked your character, I have attacked your common sense, and the fact that you just seem to be here for the sake of arguing. So I won't really touch that one.

You have repeatedly, as I stated before, lacked any real recommendation for design choices outside of "button swapping". As I said if this was hard-coded in, it might well annoy others, although I'm assuming from your take on things, as long as you're happy, no one else matters. So the final option is key-mapping software. This is a real and viable solution, but then drop your argument about the controllers design because that is irrelevent to the key-mapping software itself, and instead argue in it's favor.

However as I stated, the only real benefit for key-mapping software is to facilitate the few who either want the genesis controls handled differently, or have a problem with "A""B" of the original NES. The former we have heard no complaints for yet, so based on the latter, we fall on two simple answers that DON'T require new software be developed.

1) Peole that didn't have experience with the original NES really won't notice, and will most likely conform to the design of the classic controller without issue.

2) You can use the controller that comes with the system, the same controller that is REQUIRED to use the classic controller, which is designed almost identically to the original NES controller in button layout, to play the NES games with not a penny spent.

Yes, I know, you've said "that's invalid because they shouldn't have allowed the classic controller to play NES titles!". I'll once again touch on this by saying you hold no right to invalidate any argument in a forum, especially one so pertinent to a childish problem. Why is it childish? because you are arguing why a controller that very easily facilitates the control of original NES games in it's design. It does NOT do so in the exact manner of the original, but that does not remove its inherent functionality. It works, you just don't like HOW it works, many others would disagree, but it's not REQUIRED.

You simply want to invalidate the one main argument that is the most true answer to your problem because you don't like it. Then you go on to accuse many of being a fanboy, over and over ad nausium, when most, if not all, have not defended nintendo in the sense that "nintendo does no wrong" as you like to put it. But rather defening a sensible design choice regardless of company. As I've said repeatedly, the issue you have with the classic controller is NOT its design, but rather the lack of re-mapping capability, so why take issue with the remote itself?

As I said in one of my previous posts...
Your argument is almost up there with "why does playing counterstrike on my PC with my 360 USB controller suck... it lets me play it, so it should work better [...] sure I have a keyboard that works even better as a control interface for said system, but if the XBOX controller CAN control it, it should do it better!"

your argument barely rates better than that, and before you attack that comment as hyperbole, note that I've already labelled it as such, if you've actually read half of the responses to your thread.

Now I've written quite a lenghy reply here, one that covers most of your issues more than once, so please at least respond once in a sensical, non "fanboy" flaming manner.... then you can return to your normal ways.

Lots of people seemed shocked by my mentioning of blind fanboyism being the root of all the disagreements over my postion. I ask you, if you read a response like ac39's that was vehemently against your comment yet filled with statements that show he never even bothered to read your comments, how could you not dismiss that comment on blind fanboyism? This post by ac39 is pratically a parody of the type of post that kind of person would write.
The problem is I did read your posts, and very few if any had real viable solutions.

I'm not going to go into this again, because we were both obviously posting at the same time and I already touched on most. But your main issue boiled down to "why should they allow use for this console (the NES) if it is not sufficiently designed for it, and why weren't these changes I'm mentioning put into place (referring mostly to different key-mapping)"

my response in regards to the fact that the classic is sufficient was in the regard that based on button input, it most certainly is sufficient. How can you be certain that your ideas are superior outside of the fact that they are your ideas. Do you honestly think thought wasn't put into most of what you said here? Your ideas do not hold more merit than others simply because they are your own.

Additionally, how can you be sure that your layout wouldn't alienate or annoy more users than you yourself have been? Have you done user testing in a controlled environment?

As I stated repeatedly, the only true solution to this problem would be key-mapping setting available on the Wii for the emulator. And no I don't think it would be all too difficult to do just that, however we don't know that for a fact, and as we said, the only real benefits seem to be for the NES, and possibly for the Genesis (to which we have not yet seen such push-back as you have shown here).

Considering that the NES controller is more than sufficiently accounted for between the option of the additional classic controller, or the base controller for the system, why should such an option be persued as required while most if not all other functionality is attained?

How about this thought?

The "Classic Controller" was designed as a marriage of the S-NES, N64, and Game Cube Controllers with no thought put into NES functionality. Why would they, if the Wiimote is nearly identical to the original NES when turned sideways?I'm totally fascinated by the abundance of fanboy Nintendo-can-do-no-wrong reactions to my very logical position. So please entertain my curiosity a bit more here.

I just have to clear the record. By no means am I a fanboy. This is the first Nintendo I have ever purchased and have no loyalty to the system. But I can see plainly that when I turn my Wiimote on its side it looks and feels nearly identical to the original controller. Therefore I'm not the least bit concerned about the "classic" controller use in NES games.

yeah thats what I dont get...everyone will obviously have a wiimote, so why would they need to cater to the NES control specs when creating the classic controller?

All of the older consoles are considered classic...its made as a compromise between the SNES, 64, TG16, & Sega systems...those 4 pads are all more complex than the NES pad..so Im really glad to designed it around them, instead of the ol NES...especially when the wiimote is a perfect piece to use all by itself.

its equivalent to me complaining my 5-in-1 memory card reader doesnt take SD cards...when an SD cardreader is built into my PC/TV :)

1. This guys a toolbag

2. I don't know why you people are still arguing with him

3. This is the first thread in many moons i've actually wanted to get locked lol.

The doucebaggery is strong with this one...

I'm not going to read this thread, but wanted to say I laughed at

The doucebaggery is strong with this one...

Well done.

And I just DLed and played Super Mario Bros last night and it was awesome. Just like I remember back in the day. :)

OK, looks like I'll just drop this issue. Apparently I'm a "douchbag" because I presented an opinion which was not greeted with an openmind, was then challenged with some of the most irrelevant arguments imaginable, then after posting rebuttals to those arguments the rebuttals were ignored as the old irrelevant arguments returned. But *I'm* the douchebag! Wow. I haven't seen people acting this way since middle school! Trust me, we've gotten lots of amusement from most of you ;)

Oh, and aC39, I saw that you wrote a long reply to my post which proved that you hadn't read mine. I thought the funniest action would be to "read" it like you "read" mine and then let you know that I "read" it.

Apparently I'm a "douchbag"...
I think they said you were douchbagging (sp?), not that you were one. In other words, it was something you're doing as opposed to something you are. :rolleyes:

HOWEVER, I have no idea what the comment actually means. I *think* it's derogatory, but I'm not sure... :confused: ;)

Seriously, I got your point and kind of agree with you. But it's not worth the effort (to me) to discuss it. BUt I wanted you to know that at least *one* person agrees with you! :p

-Dan

For what it's worth, I totally agree that Nintendo needs to let us map the buttons how we want. The classic controller is much more comfortable than turning the Wii-Mote on its side. But when I tried playing Super Mario Bros. with it, it was a disaster. You're right, it'd be much easier if I could map "b" and "a" to "y" and "b", or however it's setup on the classic controller. Glad to see I'm not the only one...

It's starting to hurt, but it's not completely through yet. Sheesh! Remind me to never challenge fanboy dogma every again!

What is your deal calling everyone a fanboy? I think most of us can agree that the button mapping is stupid on the classic controller for NES games because it would have been easy to fix the issue by allowing the other configurations like you mentioned. But I think you are mis-interpreting people. Some people (including myself) think you are just going a little too over the deep end on this issue and they are just telling you to chill out and offered another alternative (using Wiimote as NES controller). Just because they are telling you not to go so nuts about it doesn't mean they feel Nintendo can do no wrong and that they are the ultimate Nintendo fanboys.

2) Hear some intelligent items to counter mine. Key word *intelligent*. All I've seen are statements made out of blind fanboyism. I articulated by a series of popular counterarguments are invalid and what do I continue to see? Those same counterarguments!

Wow, you sound like a polititian. Let's all enter the spin zone where everything anyone says that does not perfectly match the way you feel is showing blatent fanboyism. Basically what you are telling everyone is that if they do not agree with you, they must be a fanboy because that can be the only explanation for them not feeling the same way you do. I agree with most others that you have to consider the classic controller was made with 5 different consoles in mind what have very different control schemes. I think anyone can forgive them for not being able to perfectly match each of them with one controller. Would you rather have had them make 5 differen't controllers to match each console? Maybe you would, but it would be a pain to switch all the time and would cost a lot of money to buy. Which comes down to why some people are suggesting you just use the Wiimote to play your NES games, and use the classic controller for everything else.

The other thing is you said you got the controller for free from Nintendo, in addition to you actually bought it specifically to play a SNES game, not NES, so the fact that you are complaining so much that a FREE product you got for a SNES game does not function perflectly with a NES game is beyond a lot of us here.

I think more people would get angry as you are about the bad button mapping on the classic controller, except for the fact that there is an extremely good alternate solution by using the wiimote as your NES controller. If the wiimote could not be used for NES VC games, and your only option was to use the classic controller, then I'm sure you would see a big outcry for Nintendo to make a change, because in a way, they would be forcing you into not being able to efficiently play NES games. But the fact is you can use the Wiimote for almost perfect NES controller emulation but yet you are still complaining to high heavens about the classic controller. The fact that the classic controller sucks for NES games is irreveant, because you can use the Wiimote.

You just need to know when to pick your battles and when to just realize you are wasting your breathe in a cause that already has a solution to it. Use the other controller.

I support all consoles equally. There are things I love about Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, and certain things I don't like about each. I could get into the details of what I like and don't like about each system, but that would be besides the point. I'm just curious if you can come up with a better argument for other's people's posts other than they are fanboys hence their arguments are invalid.