Let me just start by saying I love the designs here, your talents, commitments, ideas, and your inteligence. All of you offer so much.

Now I have been reading these forums for months now, aswell as the HT Guide ones, but I can't seem to find 100% blueprints, testing, specs, and help all on the same topic/in the same thread, for building a sub.

Im in need of some help here..... I am in the first stages of my HT. I have a medium sized living room 13L 14W with 7H ceiling. However we plan on moving so over kill for the room is fine at this point... I don't care if I blow the windows out of my house with sound!!

Anways... i'll cut to the chase here..... this was my idea (please bear with me, I have tried using unibox, winisd but I can't get the right combo and information that I can understand)

I would like some assistance making a vented encloser for the following:
BASH DIGITAL SUB AMPLIFIER 300W Partnumber=300-750
DAYTON TIT400C-4 15" TITANIC MKIII SUBWOOFER 4 OHM Partnumber=295-420

**sorry, wont let me post links**

My skills using wook working tools is 7/10 (saws,routers, finishing)
My skills using anything electronic is 9/10 (soldering, rewiring etc)

I will be able to make everything from start to finish, and im not shy about voiding a warrenty or 2 to solder in a couple of resisters for the bash amp.

1) What I need is help with what size encloser would I need to contruct?
2) At what tune should I run at? 17hz? 20hz? higher?
3) How many pictures do you all want?
4) Where do I send the beer for all the help?

Attachments at the bottom of this post show the WinISD Pro database for that driver. For general use for both music and HT, it will work well in a sealed design. If you want it more for HT use, a larger enclosure vented looks pretty good, too. Open the driver editor database and make sure the parameters match with what I showed you in the file attachment, then you can look at the different ways to model this driver.

Here is a list of online links that you should copy and save for reference. The second in the list is a guide to getting started using WinISD, and may help you get more familiar with using the program. And since I wrote it, I highly recommend you use the guide as you work with the modeling. Other links are to a variety of information and very helpful calculators. I use many of them often...you can't have too many readily available (and free!) resources.

Information links, calculators, and other online help:

http://www.bcae1.com/
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=74558&PN=1
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
http://www.sound.westhost.com/tsp.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/site-map.htm

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/cscaling.htm
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/faq.htm
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/kou/ubmodel.html
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=47166
http://www.vikash.info/audio/diy_audio_search/index.asp

http://www.thielesmall.com/database.asp
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/design_of_loudspeakers.htm
http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdgroup.htm
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/HelmholtzResonator.html

http://www.carstereo.com/help2/Articles.cfm
http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/crossover/xoverhelp.html
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/port-flares.htm
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_1_1/v1n1spk.html
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=37023
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t29
http://diyaudiocorner.tripod.com/formula.htm
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro
http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=759083&p=9024043
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/freesoft.htm
http://www.mhsoft.nl/conv1.htm
http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html#fourth
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/driver-conversions.htm

http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/flare-it.htm
http://www.subwoofertools.com/forum/ported-box.asp
http://www.mkprofessional.com/freq.htm
http://www.gomath.com/geometrycal.html
http://www.falstad.com/mathphysics.html

http://www.opamplabs.com/cfl.htm
http://www.opamplabs.com/rfc.htm
http://www.subwoofertools.com/forum/portlength.htm
http://www.carstereo.com/help2/Articles.cfm?id=31
http://www.1728.com/pythgorn.htm

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
http://www.subwoofertools.com/forum/sag.htm
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/sonosub.htm
http://www.mhsoft.nl/spk_calc.asp
http://www.mhsoft.nl/spk_calc.asp#top

http://www.cvs1.uklinux.net/calculators/
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=unitconverter
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/r2.htm
http://www.danmarx.org/audioinnovation/theories.html
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/subwooferplacementguide.php
http://www.ht-audio.com/audio.htm#Driver%20Manufacturers

This is a lot of reading but so helpful. Thank you so much for all those links!

Satansfx, I don't know how many pictures I would like to see... just do not forget to take one from those blasted windows!

When I'm involved in a project, sometimes I'm amazed at how many of these I refer back to.

Note to self: save these links on something in case the computer crashes!

Satansfx:

I know you were also considering the DAYTON RSS390HO-4 15" HIGH OUTPUT SUBWOOFER.
Which one have you finally decided to use?

Good luck!

Manau,

I've already made the encloser..... it's roughly 19" deep 19.5" wide and 24" high which comes out to 5.1458 ^3. So If I need to make it smaller I can add a few baffles in it to shrink it down some. Plus it will be ported.

I took pictures of the whole build process, but I haven't gotten arround to posting them yet (lazy).

As far as what driver im going to use.... im still nto sure, the box was made for the Titanic 15", but I might go with the RSS390HO-4 15..... this far the only thing I know that is set in stone is the 300w bash amp... but I still need to figure out how and why to change the rumble filter for this sub/encloser.

Pictures! pictures!

I am going with the Dayton RSS390HO-4 15 and the 500w bash amp. I am considering a 5 cf enclosure so I am very interested to see how you have built your enclosure. I may simply want to duplicate what you have done (no copyright right?).
I am still waiting for the amp to arrive (and I just noticed on PE that delivery has been pushed by another 3 weeks!) and I still want to learn more before I even start cutting wood. Being said, what is a rumble filter? is it the same as High pass filter?

Well, I should have taken more pictues to show what I was doing during the contruction of this sub....

and of course my pictures are too big to upload to here!!!!

let me see what I can do...


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/wood.JPG
Here is all the wood i started with, the kid at lowes didn't want to cut every piece like I wanted.



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/holes1.JPG
Countersunk holes + predrilled



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/holes2.JPG
After I put the screws in



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/caulk.JPG
Liquid nail



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/caulk2.JPG
Liquid nail part 2



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/back.JPG
Never too much liquid nail!



http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/corner.JPG
Fuzzy corner pic

Here are the rest


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/top.JPG
The top is all drilled


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/top2.JPG
Another angle


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/finished.JPG
Inside shot, yes i know it cracked... im not happy


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/finished2.JPG
Looking at the top of the enclosure


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/side.JPG
Side shot, I will explain in the next post why there are screws there...


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/inside.JPG
Smear that liquid nail in there

http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/inside2.JPG
EEEHHH...... no one will ever see this.....

Ok, this is crude I know.... I was trying to just get it online

http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/detailed.JPG

Thanks for the pictures. Keep up with the good work. A few questions:

1- why do you separate the amp from the driver?
2- Are you going to use bracing?
3- Is it a vented or closed box?
4- Are the cracks significant and a concern? Didn't you pre-drill the MDF?
5- I assume that you do not use clamps and only screws. Does it work well?

Hope to see more picture as you make progress with construction.

Have fun!

Lotta screws... But if you don't have enough clamps, maybe that's what's needed. I've always been lucky enough to have enough clamps around.

Question on the amp mounting to all... What are the thoughts on this? I know the few cheaper commercially built subs with plate amps that I've seen use shared airspace. I've heard of separate boxes for some DIY setups because people worry about the plate amps being leaky. When in a separate box, is heat build up a concern if the box is too small?

Manau,

1) just wanted to be different I guess? thought it would be a nice idea....
2) Yes, i have them cut, just not put in yet
3) Vented 4' at about 17"
4) I did pre-drill the holes but i think the bit was too small.... Im not sorried about it im going to glue it and clamp it back together
5) I used clamps but I only have 4 of them, but i don't see how this would make a difference... I just used a lot of screws because im just like that.... I guess.... overkill

Question on the amp mounting to all... What are the thoughts on this? I know the few cheaper commercially built subs with plate amps that I've seen use shared airspace. I've heard of separate boxes for some DIY setups because people worry about the plate amps being leaky. When in a separate box, is heat build up a concern if the box is too small?

I really don't know the answer but I also wonder if it is a potential issue

Don't think heat will be an issue, I just made a chamber in the abck for the amp just because. No rhyme or reason, thought it would be a good idea, and saw some other subs with the same thing so I rolled with it

5) I used clamps but I only have 4 of them, but i don't see how this would make a difference... I just used a lot of screws because im just like that.... I guess.... overkillDid you use screws that had the first 3/4" (or more) unthreaded? The reason I ask is that the screws can actually keep the MDF separated, where as with the 3/4" unthreaded it doesn't actually screw into the first sheet of MDF but actually pulls it really tight into the other.

On another note, you might have trouble with the bracing. You need to make sure it's a snug fit, but also make sure its fit in correctly. You probably should have put it in before you put a side peice on. No big deal, though, I think it'll just make it harder for ya :p

Whooops..... no, I didn't use those screws.... what I ended up doing was apply glue to 1 side, put the boards together.... then clamp, predrill, screw in place.

as far as bracing, how much and where in the enclosure?

mini bump since im still in the process of finishing...

All the holes have been covered with wood filler, it's been sanded... and there is already one coat of primer on the enclosure. When I get home today I will be putting another 2=3 coats of primer on, then re-sanding it down to ensure a smooth finish.

Now here is the new thing.... I was going to go with the dayton Titanic III, but now im leaning towards the 15"HO, or should I stay with the Titanic?... either way it doesnt matter, since im still waiting on ordering the sub/amp untill the box is done.

Ok.... let get back to some questions.... the box is 5.1^3 roughly, and now I dont want to run a plate amp anymore. Im thinking of running an EP2500 since I can get it for a steal!!! would this be too much for the 1 15"? and since I made a chamber for the plate amp, should I just cut a hole in it and use it as more bracing? plus add more bracing internally?

An EP2500 powering a single 15" is not too much if the 15" is up to it. Or maybe a pair of beefy 12's. The sale at TC Sounds is your best choice now if you want to go the pro amp route.

-Robert

Attachments at the bottom of this post show the WinISD Pro database for that driver.


Steve

Something is wrong with your winisd graph. Graph the titanic in a 8ft^3 tuned to 19. It should have a F3 of 19hz. If it doesn't you have the parameters incorrect

wait, did steve say he wrote WINISD?

uh oh..... did i make the wrong size enclosure???

NOl, the enclosure is fine. IT graphs good in that size enclosure.

It's just that the graph that steve posted with it in that enclosure isn't right. It actually graphs alot better then what he's showing

I don't understand these posts. Why *should* the titanic be in a 8 cu. ft. box? Usually
people design their subwoofer to meet certain criteria and the design will change depending upon the goals.

What is your subwoofer design goals? What tuning/port size did you plan to fit in the box?

The EP2500 is a good snag over the plate amp. If you want to use a proper port for
that woofer, I'd use two 4" or one 6" diameter port. Problem is, with low tuning the
port length is long. One 4" port is kinda janky for that design.

I don't understand these posts. Why *should* the titanic be in a 8 cu. ft. box? Usually
people design their subwoofer to meet certain criteria and the design will change depending upon the goals.

What is your subwoofer design goals? What tuning/port size did you plan to fit in the box?


Actually you need to decide you goals and size constraints prior to picking the driver.

After you have clarrified that the box can be no bigger then X volume/size and the price you can afford we will try to find the BEST options for you to achieve the lowest frequencies at the highest/cleanest SPL levels.

BTW, the titanic graphs best in a ~8ft^3 box tuned to 19hz.

Goal

1) smooth, yet punchy low end for 80% HT and 20% music w/out the chuffing.
2) I thought winISD came up with 1 4" port at 18 inches, flared on 1 end would give me 18Hz..

So how about a slot vent then? since the front baffle hasn't been cut yet, I can still change this..... however I did already buy a 4" port :(

amp wise.. as long as I can use a pro amp w/out serious issues of killing the driver im going to go with that.

Don't worry satan. You are making the right box. Steve's recommendations were fine. I was just letting him know that his graph was incorrect.

Trust me, you'll be blown away.

I do recommend using two 4" ports though. I made this mistake once. What happens with only one is you get alot of port noise at higher SPLs at low frequencies.

Goal

1) smooth, yet punchy low end for 80% HT and 20% music w/out the chuffing.
2) I thought winISD came up with 1 4" port at 18 inches, flared on 1 end would give me 18Hz..

So how about a slot vent then? since the front baffle hasn't been cut yet, I can still change this..... however I did already buy a 4" port :(

amp wise.. as long as I can use a pro amp w/out serious issues of killing the driver im going to go with that.

Someone told you one 4" port would do a good job? It can work but it won't
meet your 'no chuffing' goal at higher SPL. I have a woofer similar to the titanic,
a different application tuned to 35hz and I used two rear mounted 4" flared ports
to minimize chuffing. Using one port with low tuning is *ouch* at high SPL.
One 6" diameter port or dual 4" is good, but the length is big for low tuning.

If you don't use the plate amp, do you have ~ 6 cu. ft. ? If so, see if you
can source 5" diameter cardboard pipe. That might be a decent compromise
and make a flared end cap :) Check your pm, I send you something to look at.

I do recommend using two 4" ports though. I made this mistake once. What happens with only one is you get alot of port noise at higher SPLs at low frequencies.

2 4's..... and at what length?? both at 17"- 19"

I can free up some space in the box since im going with an external pro amp.... so I can get it up to about 6.5^3

also, go with the dayton 15" HO? or titanic III?

LOL, the two 4" ports need to be 38.88" each.

They'll need to be bent

so the inside of this box is going to look like a bad lvl of tetris???

Im in deep doo doo then.... ok, so I guess im headed to lowes later and pick up another sheet of MDF.... or 2 :mad:

anyone wanna buy a 5^3 box? with separate amp chamber?? lol

you don't have to. You can put a 90degree bend in the port. Just use a 90degree PVC elbow from lowes.

But it you want to rebuild for th ebest possible output we can go that route. Then relegate the 5ft^3 box to another system with another driver, tune it to around 20~25hz though.

ACtually, I just checked WinISD. I don't think it'll be worth the hassle for you to rebuild the enclosure. I put an elbox on the ports to allow them to be longer.

I just checked. You should be able to get away with two 3" ports 21.22" long. This should keep chuffing very low.

ok, what if I say "F" the titantic and go with the tc2000??
http://www.tcsounds.com/tc2000.htm

Im sorry for asking being a pain in the @ss over this.... but im at work now, and I cant crunch any numbers

so... new plan!!

same box...... running at 6.5^3..... from is already 1.5" thick
EP2500 amp
4' port from PE (already bought this)

ok.... so what sub???? lol


**leaving work** 2:30 EST

Satan - I hope you don't mean the 15" TC-2000. a single 4" port is NOT a good idea for that driver.

This based on 4"X20" port.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/VBResponseTC-2000SVC.gif

I dont have to use the port.... just stating the materials I already have. And trying to salvage the box thats already built... thats all

alright, im thinking I messed up somewhere.... can someone please check my parameters?

http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/tc2000.JPG

it doesnt seem right.... or maybe im just looking at it wrong?

That's what closed box performance is without factoring in room gain.

Select 'SPL' from WinISD instead of 'transfer funtion magnitude' to get closer
to performance in room. These are just guidelines vs. making a box 'blind'.

In that tab, select EQ/filter, click 'add', pick Linkwitz Transform and try differnt
'Hz' settings. Default is 20hz. Click add. This shows what that might do.

Then you can figure out how much power until you reach excursion limits
if you want to venture deeper into optimizations, etc.

How about this then?

I ran it at 22Hz

But..... im going to have to build the LT circuit right?




http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/tc2000_LT.JPG



or what If I go ported with the same dimensions as before 6.25^3 @ 18Hz


http://users.adelphia.net/~satansfx/tc2000_ported.JPG

I dont have to use the port.... just stating the materials I already have. And trying to salvage the box thats already built... thats all

Ok, sealed
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/CBResponseTC-2000SVC.gif

or what If I go ported with the same dimensions as before 6.25^3 @ 18Hz

A single 4" diameter port with TC2000 will cause chuffing at higher SPL. That woofer is
too uber for a tiny port like that. You can try it, check it out, but it's not ideal. It will
work at lower SPL but when you crank it up, there is lots of air flow. A good port has
no crazy air flow in spite of common consumer thinking.

Two 4" diameter ports, one 6" diameter port is better but it's too long to fit in your box
design unless you find a clever way to do this. Technically, ports don't have to be inside
the box, they can stick out. Check out this comical design where the ports stick out
because they don't fit in the box. The marketing twist is it's 'turbocharged'... rofl..
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho-turbo.html

Your best bet is to find 5" inside diameter pipe @ 17" - 22" length for that box design
you have. Steve said you might find some small concrete cylinder forms at the home
center, but I've only seen 8" diameter. Even hard cardboard tube is fine, the trick is
finding it.

You think HSU is crazy, this is worse. :rolleyes: http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/vent-options.htm

lol the turbo charged

I kida like that too.... I wonder if I can pull off the same thing? well, they would be facing my couch, sooooo lighting a smoke during a movie could create a problem with the airflow coming out!! :P

looks like im going to have to take a trip to home depot or lowes and see if I can get a 5" tube at 24" and cut it

so.... this is what we have so far:

6.50^3 box (almost finished)
1.5" front baffle (w/out the cutout)

things im going to be needing:

1 TC2000 15"
1 5" tube/pipe @ 24" (cut to length for what i'll be needing)
1 EP2500 with 1 DEQ2496 or 1 BKA-1000



So much for the $400-$600 sub!!! :eek:

If you want to save a little money, get the Rpl 15.

How much have you spent so far?

$55.65 on wood, primer, sandpaper ect.
$37.xx on 4" port and spike set from PE

===========
92.65ish so far on materials

+ 30 for clamps
+ 60 for a router (I F'd up and ddint get a plunge router, so I might have to take it back)


if you go to the first page.... that WAS the plan to begin with lol.... I can see how things morph into other projects

$55.65 on wood, primer, sandpaper ect.
$37.xx on 4" port and spike set from PE

===========
92.65ish so far on materials

+ 30 for clamps
+ 60 for a router (I F'd up and ddint get a plunge router, so I might have to take it back)


if you go to the first page.... that WAS the plan to begin with lol.... I can see how things morph into other projects

It always does. :D I say you'll end up paying around $600 total. But performance will be all worth it.
I started with a SVS PB10 and now leading to two 9cuft SS Rpl 15! This hobby is very addictive and if not careful, expensive. :rolleyes:

You think HSU is crazy, this is worse. :rolleyes: http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/vent-options.htm

I don't mind DIY madness because we don't add marketing flare and
buzzwords to our projects to mislead people. :)

I don't mind DIY madness because we don't add marketing flare and
buzzwords to our projects to mislead people. :)

Your right! :D

This hobby is very addictive and if not careful, expensive. :rolleyes:


Its like crack!! you all are like dealers.... building the sub is just the "taste" thats why you guys are so helpfull..... because once I finish this, im going to be amased by it and start on my center, and my mains.... which will be put another 2k in the hole!!

DAMN YOU!!! crazy speaker crack dealing DIY'ers :P

so.... my cabinet of 6.5^3 will work? just brace the everloving crap out of it, add some fill to her throw some paint on it.... and then drop the sub in.

now since im not going with the LT circuit just yet, should I get the 5" port? or just keep it sealed??

vitod, thylantyr, steve, wild, poormanq45... I would like to thank you for all the help and support for this project. But can someone post 1 last thing for me??

A graph with both the ported 5" at 18-24" and I think the sealed one was already put in by thylantyr.. I'd like to see the difference between the two

Finding the tube will give you a headache, if such a diameter exists. Grab a tape measure
in the store and poke around for anything tubeish and measure the inside diameter. lol

The 6 cu. ft. box is fine. Since you are box limited, your tube options are limited.
You can install it and just play around with your sub. If there is too much chuffing,
then plug the tube or remove it {plug the hole}, now it's sealed. If the bass is weak,
add the EQ to boost some low end. If you are an analphile, save up for an LT option
later.

Bottom line is that you will have a good amp, good woofer and you can always remake
another subwoofer enclosure, just tell the old lady it's the 'remastered - director's cut - unrated - version :hehehehe:

ok, that makes perfect sense.... i'll goto the home stores tomorrow and see what they all have.

Now to check ebay and see if I can get a x-over from some pawn shop for dirt cheap :D you know.... just in case I want to upgrade sooner

Can someone give me a model of the tc3k sealed aswell as ported with a 6^3 box?

trying to get my bearings on this.... when I model it, it looks like ..... well... bad

Can someone give me a model of the tc3k sealed aswell as ported with a 6^3 box?

trying to get my bearings on this.... when I model it, it looks like ..... well... bad

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/CBResponseTC3000QVC-1.gif

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/VBResponseTC3000QVC.gif

Your better off sealed.

They aren't showing up Vitod

You could slot port it using one of the existing sides as the port edge, wrapping it around the back. It will of course consume some space but you can use the height of the enclosure to your advantage.

I've done this plenty of times with great success. If you do choose to slot port, make sure your effective port length takes into account for end correction if it turns a 90 degree turn. Here is a good calculator (http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpsubwoofervented/port_length_equation_k.php)

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/SpeakerDesigns/2_10in_Kicker_L7_Ported.jpg

They aren't showing up Vitod

???

I put the parameters in Unibox and your box 6^3 and these are the results.

your links Vitod http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/CBResponseTC3000QVC-1.gif
and
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/VBResponseTC3000QVC.gif



Sorry, the page you requested was not found

Wait a minute. You don't see the graphs I posted? I see them on my end. :confused:

Does anyone else see them without clicking the link?

Nope, i dont see them

Sorry, the page you requested was not found