This may contain spoilers but it's important for every Zelda player to read it anyway. I'll make it as general as possible so that I do not ruin anything.

I'm 58 hours into Zelda: Twilight Princess on Wii and have run into a problem that has resulted in it becoming impossible to continue with my game because I'm locked into a room with no way out. I called Nintendo and they confirmed that this is a known bug that their resolution is this:

Start over from scratch or an earlier save file.

Here's how to prevent this bug from occuring (with as few spoilers as possible):

If you ever enter a totally enclosed room (more like a cavern) that contains a massive canon do not save the game while inside this room. I'll repeat: DO NOT SAVE INSIDE THE ROOM CONTAINING A CANON.

I spoke with 2 people at Nintendo and then a supervisor called me back. She offered a free players' guide to speed my progress through the game, but I turned it down. I have 58 hours on this because I search every nook and kranny in these games and I'll be damned if I'm going to lose it. She said that all she knows is that this is a known issue and I kept asking about what kind of resolution or when a resolution will be available and she said she didn't know. I'm a pain in the ass kind of consumer and I just don't tolerate BS very well so I'm going to write a complaint letter, complete with a DVD-R containing my Zelda save file, to the President of Nintendo of America Reggie Fims-Amie... well... I will as soon as I figure out how his name is spelled.


Being a Wii owner has been little more than an exercise in frustration:
1) First, they announce no component cables would be available at launch
2) It was difficult to get a Wii
3) The Wii I bought was defective and required a 2 week repair process
4) The returned Wii lost my $50 in virtual console information
5) I added $20 of VC points to my new system and when Nintendo resolved my lost $50 from my broken Wii they did so by tossing out my new $20 of VC points,
6) To make up for losing my $20 they sent me a "free" classic controller
7) I then use the classic controller and see that the button mapping is so horrendous that playing NES games is a miserable experience.
8) Then Zelda breaks!


Nintendo's customer service does at least seem interested in resolving issues, but damn I'm sick of this endless series of bugs and missteps on the part of Nintendo.

i think i remember seeing a video floating around about a bug involving a canon room where you could not use the canon..

i think i remember seeing a video floating around about a bug involving a canon room where you could not use the canon..


Here's an extremely detailed video on this bug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWa7_ZQ_EQ&mode=related&search=


DAMN YOU NINTENDO. It's one thing to have a problem with your products, but once you do have a problem you should find a way to fix it ASAP. This video was posted December 12th!

DAMN YOU NINTENDO. It's one thing to have a problem with your products, but once you do have a problem you should find a way to fix it ASAP. This video was posted December 12th!I don't think the Wii can do online patches for existing games. Given a choice, I think I prefer it that way. Some bugs will always get through, but this encourages publishers to release solid, thoroughly debugged products the first time. If I wanted buggy games that are basically late betas followed by lots of patches, I might at well play PC games where they're been doing that for years, or XBox/360, where it's becoming increasingly common. As much as everyone knows it's wrong, for the publishers, economics speaks louder than right and wrong. If shipping something buggy will forever brand their game with negative buzz, that gives them a real economic incentive to debug it better before shipping.

That said, I bet the inevitable Player's Choice version of Twilight Princess will fix the bug. That has been pretty common practice for Nintendo in the past. Later copies of Ocarina of Time even changed Ganondorf's blood from red to green as well as fixing a few bugs that were present in the first gold cartridges.

I don't think the Wii can do online patches for existing games. Given a choice, I think I prefer it that way. Some bugs will always get through, but this encourages publishers to release solid, thoroughly debugged products the first time. If I wanted buggy games that are basically late betas followed by lots of patches, I might at well play PC games where they're been doing that for years, or XBox/360, where it's becoming increasingly common. As much as everyone knows it's wrong, for the publishers, economics speaks louder than right and wrong. If shipping something buggy will forever brand their game with negative buzz, that gives them a real economic incentive to debug it better before shipping.

I can understand your logic, especially in today's world where software apologists are so numerous that it's usually the software user gets more criticism for encountering a bug than the company gets for producing the bug. Even with this bug I've found numerous comments on other boards where people are blaming the player for "saving the game at a dumb spot".

Even if the Wii cannot do software updates for Wii titles, Nintendo still have lots of other options available to it:

1) Warn users on the bug and how to avoid it. They can use the Wii's own email service for this, and the wrist strap problem shows how the company really is capable of informing its users.

2) Create a little PC and Mac utility that can tweak the save file by putting the player immediately after the whole sky cannon thing. The save file can be placed into the SD card and then connected to a PC/Mac. A creative programmer at Nintendo can probably figure out what flags need to get changed to set the user to a safe point. I read about a Japanese Pokeman game had a similar bug where the player could become trapped in a staircase. Nintendo fixed this problem by updating player's DSes at those download stations found in stores. I assume this probably worked by tweaking the game's save record. I wouldn't be surprised if the WiiConnect24 could be used for modifying a game save.

3) Rush the production of fixed Zelda discs and replace any copy that a customer mails to them. From what I've read the GCN version doesn't have the bug so it's probably already fixed in Nintendo's codebase. This bug isn't an annoyance like the intermittent elevator crash bug on the original Metroid Prime that forced the player to reboot - this is a bug that permanently ruins someone's progress in the game. Nintendo must fix this.


Nintendo's apparent decision to do nothing just isn't acceptable, nor would a halfassed program to distribute generic game saves via the internet.


That said, I bet the inevitable Player's Choice version of Twilight Princess will fix the bug. That has been pretty common practice for Nintendo in the past. Later copies of Ocarina of Time even changed Ganondorf's blood from red to green as well as fixing a few bugs that were present in the first gold cartridges.

Same thing occurred to me. I wonder if I'll have to wait a year or more to continue with my game.

i have had this happen before on other games, and this is why i alternate save files, I save in file 1, then 3, then 1.. and so on, that way i can always go back to my previous save if need be.

Dr.

I was in a room and the only way out was with bombs.So just make shure you have plenty with you.This was before i was able to warp.

Even if the Wii cannot do software updates for Wii titles, Nintendo still have lots of other options available to it:
1) Warn users on the bug and how to avoid it...
2) Create a little PC and Mac utility that can tweak the save file...
3) Rush the production of fixed Zelda discs and replace any copy that a customer mails to them...Those are actually some pretty good options. Number one, sending people wiimail about the problem, would probably establish a bad precedent, though. Number two would be great, but it would cause all kinds of support headaches and wouldn't help everybody. Number three is probably the most practical, although it would become difficult for people to tell which version they were buying in the future, which could matter if Nintendo fixed other bugs at the same time.

I agree that, even though as a former game programmer myself, I can totally see how this bug could slip through, it is completely Nintendo's fault and not the user's. Still, an intelligent user probably should practice defensive saving by rotating save files. To do otherwise is almost naive about the practical reality of buggy games. The user shouldn't have to, and I don't blame them if they don't, but it's like defensive driving. Even if you aren't in the wrong, you can still get hurt, so why not be safe if it isn't too much trouble? That advice doesn't help people who have already lost their saves, but maybe it can help them next time.

To be clear, though, I think Nintendo probably should mail corrected replacement discs to anyone who asks. These discs should have the bug fixed and should be able to recover from a save that was stuck with the old disc. I don't expect that they actually will do that, though. I'd say your best shot for recovering your save is to hope for a friendly hacker to implement option number two independently of the big N.

So nobody really knows who that A button was referring to when it said "speak"? or was it Midna?

So nobody really knows who that A button was referring to when it said "speak"? or was it Midna?


Midna.
One of the videos I watched on YouTube intentionally tried that.

Those are actually some pretty good options. Number one, sending people wiimail about the problem, would probably establish a bad precedent, though. Number two would be great, but it would cause all kinds of support headaches and wouldn't help everybody. Number three is probably the most practical, although it would become difficult for people to tell which version they were buying in the future, which could matter if Nintendo fixed other bugs at the same time.

I agree that, even though as a former game programmer myself, I can totally see how this bug could slip through, it is completely Nintendo's fault and not the user's. Still, an intelligent user probably should practice defensive saving by rotating save files. To do otherwise is almost naive about the practical reality of buggy games. The user shouldn't have to, and I don't blame them if they don't, but it's like defensive driving. Even if you aren't in the wrong, you can still get hurt, so why not be safe if it isn't too much trouble? That advice doesn't help people who have already lost their saves, but maybe it can help them next time.

To be clear, though, I think Nintendo probably should mail corrected replacement discs to anyone who asks. These discs should have the bug fixed and should be able to recover from a save that was stuck with the old disc. I don't expect that they actually will do that, though. I'd say your best shot for recovering your save is to hope for a friendly hacker to implement option number two independently of the big N.

The sad thing, for me at least, is that I was doing that early on in the game. I think my last backup was before 1/2 of where I am now. I this a lot with the Metroid Prime 2 game because I liked the boss battles so much I'd save older versions so that I could play against an especially fun opponent over again. I've just never, ever had an incident like this on a console video game system before. I used to backup an entire game card from time to time because I've had flash memory chips go bad for no reason, but I've just never seen a game's save info become unusable like this.

I guess this means Ganon won. After all these epic battles against a blond haired blue-eyed boy in a green tunic spanning generation after generation, he finally learned that the key to victory was not to oppose the hero against a mighty beast. The key, he learned, was to place a nerd in front the only exit out of a cavern. :(

I've just never seen a game's save info become unusable like this. :(I certainly wouldn't have expected it in a Zelda game. And not on a Nintendo console in general (back to the no patches issue). It's usually more a problem with save corruption than a successful save in a buggy location. But there have been a couple of Pokemon save issues I recall. I had a save get screwed up somehow in Mario Sunshine so that I couldn't get a certain red coin on save file A; it would just crash when I touched it, whereas on other saves, it worked. And I've read about issues with save corruption in several PC games. I have to admit, though, that I was pretty lax in my save rotation on Zelda, too. I just got luckier than you.

Thanks for the thread..I warned my son before he came to this part of the game. I have yet to play my copy so I would say sorry for the ones who had to experience this however your sacrifice is saving many more from the same doom!!! :cool:

I think you've got every right to be upset. That's a game-breaking bug (that luckily I missed).

I can't imagine it would be difficult for them to at least come up with a generic file save up to that point that could be downloaded, saved to an SD card, and used on the Wii. Perhaps all of the dungeons cleared up to that point with all of the heart peices and poes in those dungeons collected, but nothing collected in the overworld.

Even if it took one playtester 30+ hours to put together such a file, isn't that better than asking multiple paying customers to spend 30+ hours of their lives replaying the game?

There are save files on the web--check out http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/save/928519.html
for example.

Especially the one labeled:

RZDE - Save before the Cannon Room Glitch

:)

I assume this is the part just before gojg to:

dungeon 7

And I was just there a few days ago. I am sure glad I didnt save in there.

Yes I also alternate save files, I typically used to do that all the time, but I had stopped. However when a member of ArsTechnica managed to get stuck on the south side of the broken bridge just after it collapsed because he saved right afterwards and was then stuck in a part of the game world that couldn't progress the story, I decided to start doing that :D

I guess this is a lesson to either do the backup file thing or else just always be sure you're saving nowhere near some integral story part. Maybe save out in Hyrule field when nothing has really happened in the story lately.

Well, and cave, dungeon save you make will bring you back out of it, otherwise i save in a field or town. I perfer the autosave after beating a boss. not sure why you would save it in a room that you know whats going to happen at the point. (you have to move the cannon someplace)

Well, and cave, dungeon save you make will bring you back out of it, otherwise i save in a field or town. I perfer the autosave after beating a boss. not sure why you would save it in a room that you know whats going to happen at the point.

When entering the room there's a small cutscene with some dramatic music. This generally means something important is about to happen and that signals to me that it's a good place to save.

So I was in the room. Shad was giving me some sort of useless "wow, totally gnarley dude" dialog and he wouldn't let me leave either. I found Midna was going to hold the cannon for me in her head. But after telling me she was going to do it, she wouldn't do it. That came across like a bug. Speaking to Shad again would be pointless (or so I thought :( ) because I already spoke to him and he was being useless. Since he wouldn't let me leave and Midna wouldn't do what she said she would do I thought THAT was a bug so i quit and restarted. My assumption was that would allow me to "refresh" what was going on and fix any bugs but if not I could continue to poke around for the answer. Unfortunately that actually tripped the bug and now I'm stuck.


(you have to move the cannon someplace)
There's no way of knowing that when you enter this cavern. You may be required to move it, or you may be required to do something that causes the ceiling above it to collapse. It is a cannon after all! It could shoot in that direction! There's also no indication that you'll even be able to use it. Zelda games are notorious for letting you find something and then you have to do a dozen more things before you can use it. When I walked in my first thought was that I would need to go back to the lake and tell the depressed clown man that I needed him to go to town and fix my cannon. He had a mysterous option for repairing a cannon in his speech block earlier in the game.

There are save files on the web--check out http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/save/928519.html
for example.

Especially the one labeled:

RZDE - Save before the Cannon Room Glitch

:)


Thanks, but it wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't have my exact collection of hearts, bottles, bugs, and other items. I would never know what was found in this save file and it would spoil the fun of discovering a hidden cavern if I get to the end and see that a big treasure chest was already opened.

For other games that don't hold any special meaning to me, this will be a highly useful site.

I was just cruising around YouTube and discovered the following video. It's the PAL version of the Wii Zelda game and the bug does not occur in this version of the game. This is a very bad recording, but it's clear enough to see that the bug is fixed in this version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIO4AjY4KfU

I wonder if it's possible to take a broken save from an NTSC system, copy it to a PAL system, warp the cannon, save the game, and then copy the save file back to an NTSC system. This would require both versions to be compatible with the same save file and I don't know if this is true.

Nintendo surely has a functional NTSC build by now that they use to fix broken save files, but they obviously aren't interested in fixing the bug they created. If this solution worked then it would allow people to fix it without needing Nintendo's help.

Does anyone know if this bug is present in the GameCube version?

Does anyone know if this bug is present in the GameCube version?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSFmgWuQWNM

It's fixed

Cool, thanks!

What annoys me about this game is that the puzzles I figure out are then answered by Midna anyway. Even if I figure them out without Midna saying anything yet, it still feels like not much of an accomplishment when Midna then practically tells what to do. Sigh.

I've felt too bad to even play TP the past few days so I am still not far from this area of the game. lol Also stuck on another puzzle which of course Midna does NOT help on. lol

I just watched the video posted by scs0 with the GC play. Anyone else notice that the GC version is backwards compared to the Wii version? For example, when the title screen comes up, Link is on the horse with the archway to the right of him. In the Wii version, the arch is to the left. Also, in the canon room, when Midna warps the canon out, she is on the left side of the canon in the GC version, while in the Wii version, she is on the right side of the canon. The map of the kingdom is also a mirror image from the Wii.

Just thought it was a little wierd is all.

Nuff_Said

they flipped the Wii version so it wouldn't be weird to use the remote in the right with the sword in the left. Link is left handed. They just flipped the game. GameCube is a button masher, so they left it the same.

I never understood why they didn't just flip the rendering on Link's character model.

All they would have had to do is run a matrix multiply operation on his model at each rendering pass, which they must be doing anyway on the whole scene as it's currently implemented.

I can only assume they must have had a good reason. However it always felt strange to have everything on the wrong side of the world compared to Ocarina of Time... which this is almost a blatant remake of in a lot of respects.

I never understood why they didn't just flip the rendering on Link's character model.

All they would have had to do is run a matrix multiply operation on his model at each rendering pass, which they must be doing anyway on the whole scene as it's currently implemented.

I can only assume they must have had a good reason. However it always felt strange to have everything on the wrong side of the world compared to Ocarina of Time... which this is almost a blatant remake of in a lot of respects.


It does seem very strange that they'd flip the entire world to implement a simple hand change, and it seems expensive too. Did they create separate cheat guides for the two versions?

I knew they did it this way well before release, but I do remember thinking when I was in the shops "Gee, the shopkeepers used to display the items on the right side but now they show them on the left"! I did notice that had the gameworld been kept as it was designed it would have been similar to the Zelda:OoT overworld.

I'm glad that they kept the GCN version the same simply because I find it extremely funny that there's a game out there identical to Zelda:TP Wii except the game world is reversed. I'd like to play some of it someday because it would probably seem odd as hell.

I believe their explanation was something to the effect that the game world was designed with the direction the attack was coming from in mind, whether it was a sword swipe or visibility form the arrow or hookshot cams.

So in flipping his model and its hitboxes and attack boxes, it would have altered the game.

At least thats what I recall as a reason

I believe their explanation was something to the effect that the game world was designed with the direction the attack was coming from in mind, whether it was a sword swipe or visibility form the arrow or hookshot cams.

So in flipping his model and its hitboxes and attack boxes, it would have altered the game.

At least thats what I recall as a reason

I read that once too, but I can't imagine any actual scenerios in the game that would have been hurt by this. I imagine fights with enemies with swords would have been wacky, but they could have flipped them too. It just seems like flipping the entire game world would introduce at least as many hassles as flipping Link (for example, those changes would go beyond the game and actually affect the game manuals, cheat guides, and game help counselors)

Idaknow... I get the impression Nintendo didn't have much time to do this since E3 had a lefty Link, so they needed a quick solution, but it just seems so funny. I may pick up a cheap used copy of the Gamecube version someday for the novelty and to see how long it takes to get a headache.

It does seem very strange that they'd flip the entire world to implement a simple hand change, and it seems expensive too. Did they create separate cheat guides for the two versions?

The last time I was in Best Buy I saw two separate guides for the Wii and GameCube versions.

UPDATE:

I had this happen to me, and let me just tell you I was pissed. Well I contacted Nintendo, and of course they knew about it. They offered to me to send my disc in for repair. Or because I live so close to Redmond, WA i could bring the disc in. They repaired it the same day...or just gave me a new disc and I was back in business. When I got home put the disc in...went back to the cannon room, and presto it was fixed.

I little bit of headache, but way better than starting all over.

Well good that it turned out ok. Someone who just started the game a few weeks ago was posting on here and we mentioned this to them again. I would be pissed if it happened to me. lol