would like to know what deep throat is throating his information from.

Then he wouldn't be "Deep Throat" :confused:

A link I found today..
more pics...
http://aving.net/ru/Exhibition/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=32501&SP_Num=53&mn_name=exhi&BTB_Num=871

I got this from the link you posted, I see in Japan they already have the 65" 1080p in all black trimJust a minor nit, but the link is for Panasonic's Hong Kong web site, not Japan.

can someone also give me currency difference from us $ to Japan $, on their site it says $88,800 HK$88,800 in Hong Kong dollars is $11,377.90 in US dollars.

A link I found today..
more pics...
http://aving.net/ru/Exhibition/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=32501&SP_Num=53&mn_name=exhi&BTB_Num=871

I really like the new glossy design, looks great, like the Pioneer's...

Too bad about the black plastic across the bottom though, not being glossy.

http://image.aving.net/img/2007/01/10/200701100357041831.jpg

Just as a reminder of what some of these terms like 'false contouring' actually are, here is some good info.
I think many people confuse things like 'false contouring' and 'edge-enhancement' issues.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/2826881.html

Can anyone point to some in depth eyewitness performance reviews on Panasonic Plasma CES demonstrations. What stood out, other than the new bezel color, as showing a solid improvement over 2006 sets. I am struck by how little precise performance critiques have actually been posted here, and several who mentioned seen the sets kept referring to the Pioneer demonstrations as being more impressive. Did Pioneer actually manage to distract many from focusing on what the new Panny Plasmas were capable of?.

False Contouring: Didn't Eddy Murphy and Hugh Grant get busted for that!. ;)

It sure seems like the new 1080p Panasonics don't have the 3072 gradation limit so does that mean they have a better then 5000:1 CR? :confused:

It sure seems like the new 1080p Panasonics don't have the 3072 gradation limit so does that mean they have a better then 5000:1 CR? :confused:

Nope. Same glass and contrast ratio as the current 65PX600u, 65PF9UK, 50PF9UK.

I really like the new glossy design, looks great, like the Pioneer's...

Too bad about the black plastic across the bottom though, not being glossy.

http://image.aving.net/img/2007/01/10/200701100357041831.jpg

YIKES! The black glossy plastic is so cheap looking. I dislike it more than I did the silver. I wish they could ave used a nice looking adonized looking black. Of course that is not really possible with plastic. Come to think of it that is the crux of the problem - its plastic like eveything else.

Adonizing is very expensive to do so that is not a viable solution in a low cost plasma, but they could have done better than glossy black.

Loewe used to make direct-view CRT sets out of granite. Would a dark smokey gray granite be aesthetically pleasing enough for the hard to please frame connosieurs?

Does the granite have rainbows? ;)

Actually the process is called anodizing, as in "anode", and it really is not that expensive, in fact they could probably do a thin anodized aluminum trim piece that would weigh about the same as plastic and not cost that much more than the finished plastic, while I doubt that will ever happen I am not really that concerned as I am just glad that they are no longer silver.

Wow... tough audience. I think they look fine. The bezels probably look better in person...

I don't seem to ever hear about the glossy black bezels on Pioneers and Sammy's being cheap looking.

Loewe used to make direct-view CRT sets out of granite. Would a dark smokey gray granite be aesthetically pleasing enough for the hard to please frame connosieurs?

Then they would be stuck between a Rock and a Black Case.

Wow... tough audience. I think they look fine. The bezels probably look better in person...

I don't seem to ever hear about the glossy black bezels on Pioneers and Sammy's being cheap looking.Hmmm, you haven't been paying good enough attention then. We may be a minority, but there are plenty of us out here that strongly dislike the "faux lacquer", shiny black plastic bezels and think they look totally cheap and tacky. Some kind of brushed or mat black/charcoal bezel looks far better without all the fake pretentiousness.


ron

Well I like all the fake pretentiousness of the piano black finish. That could be because Im a fake pretentious person though.

Nope. Same glass and contrast ratio as the current 65PX600u, 65PF9UK, 50PF9UK.

There seems to be a lot of confusion with the 10th Gen specs along with what the specs were for those first Panasonic 1080p models.
Which had 3072 gradation levels?
So, if these do then did Panasonic ONLY improve that and not the CR?
:confused:

I'm almost fisished my basement. Looking at the 58 panny for viewing from 14 feet. Does anyone know the dimensions, width, height of the 75U & 7700U. I'm builing a custom wall for it and need to know the dimensions.

Thx...

I guess now TVs are going to have to come in different colors like ipods. Can you imagine a lime green plasma :eek:

There seems to be a lot of confusion with the 10th Gen specs along with what the specs were for those first Panasonic 1080p models.
Which had 3072 gradation levels?
So, if these do then did Panasonic ONLY improve that and not the CR?
:confused:
Current and upcoming 768p models are 10,000:1 CR and 3072 levels. Current and upcoming 1080p models are 5,000:1 CR and 4096 levels.

Due to the fact that they seem to be using the same 9th gen panels with newer processing, nothing in the CR and levels specs changed. I just wonder if the 65px600u already had the improved processing claimed for upcoming models. My guess is that it does.

Current and upcoming 768p models are 10,000:1 CR and 3072 levels. Current and upcoming 1080p models are 5,000:1 CR and 4096 levels.

Due to the fact that they seem to be using the same 9th gen panels with newer processing, nothing in the CR and levels specs changed. I just wonder if the 65px600u already had the improved processing claimed for upcoming models. My guess is that it does.

I guess what I was getting at is that Panasonic is showing the first 1080p units as having 3072 gradation levels, not 4096.
Has CR also changed and how do we know it hasn't?

I guess now TVs are going to have to come in different colors like ipods. Can you imagine a lime green plasma :eek:

I have almost completed my design, and am working on getting patent protection for the solution to the problem. I have almost perfected the "Chameleon" bezel, and as a state of the art technical adaption of the the old Mood Ring concept, it will automatically change colors to match the owner's color desires. The only remaining problem that I have to solve is how to stop it changing colors to match my dog's moods, although it is great fun to watch it turn dark red when ever the mail man walks by. :)

I guess what I was getting at is that Panasonic is showing the first 1080p units as having 3072 gradation levels, not 4096.
Has CR also changed and how do we know it hasn't?
If you look at the international viera website they have an asterisk that clearly denotes the 1080p models as having 5000:1 contrast and 4096 gradation levels. So I don't know what you are talking about.

Is it hard to have more gradation levels with less contrast ratio? What is-all other things being equal-better picture quality--10,000 CR and 3072 gradations or 5000 CR and 4096 gradations.

If both had the same resolution I would be more inclined to go with more Contrast Ratio and less gradations. What is more perceivable--the amount of contrast ratio or the amount of gradations?

My less than two-year-old 720p 50PX50U has a 3000:1 contrast ratio and 2048 grayscale gradations, while the 2007 1080p PDPs from Panasonic support a 5000:1 CR w/4096 grayscale steps, which will result in a perceptibly improved image.

If you look at the international viera website they have an asterisk that clearly denotes the 1080p models as having 5000:1 contrast and 4096 gradation levels. So I don't know what you are talking about.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/features/index.html

This site shows 3072 gradation levels for the 1080p panels...so which is it? ;)

Optivity - but they changed the way they measured the contrast ratios last year. The 720P sets, as far as I know, were not dramatically improved from the previous year, but the reported contrast ratios were 10,000:1 vs. 3,000:1 the previous year. So if the new 10,000:1 is the old 3,000:1 or just slightly better, then what would 5,000:1 correspond to if measured the way they used to do it...?

2006 Panasonic's (768p) were 10000:1 CR which were supposed to be about 4000:1 the old way.

What is the main purpose for higher number of shades of gray. Will you have less banding issues with the higher number? Or does it help in other areas?

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/features/index.html

This site shows 3072 gradation levels for the 1080p panels...so which is it? ;)
4096*

*Gradation for HD model is 3072.

The 4096 number is for the full hd models. In other words all 1080p models, like the 65PX600, have 4096.

Max Contrast 10,000:1*

*5,000:1 for full-HD model.

What is the main purpose for higher number of shades of gray. Will you have less banding issues with the higher number? Or does it help in other areas?
Supposedly, but Pioneer uses far less gradations (the number is under 2000 but I can't remember it). And pioneer plasmas seem to have the least banding of all the major brands. Will be interesting to see if fujitsu and nec match pioneer this year in terms of not banding.

I have almost completed my design, and am working on getting patent protection for the solution to the problem. I have almost perfected the "Chameleon" bezel, and as a state of the art technical adaption of the the old Mood Ring concept, it will automatically change colors to match the owner's color desires. The only remaining problem that I have to solve is how to stop it changing colors to match my dog's moods, although it is great fun to watch it turn dark red when ever the mail man walks by. :)
Funny enough Sony has there XBR clients covered on this. Not only can they change the bezel color, but the base stand color two.
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/imagesProducts/MoreImages/KDL46XBR2_5.jpg

Optivity - but they changed the way they measured the contrast ratios last year. The 720P sets, as far as I know, were not dramatically improved from the previous year, but the reported contrast ratios were 10,000:1 vs. 3,000:1 the previous year. So if the new 10,000:1 is the old 3,000:1 or just slightly better, then what would 5,000:1 correspond to if measured the way they used to do it...?I had an opportunity to do a side-by-side comparison of the 50/60Us last spring and regardless of how the spec is measured/rated, when using the manufacturer's standard default settings... the 60Us rendered a noticeably brighter image.

A 1080p PDP can not achieve the same contrast ratio as a 720p plasma display because the size of each pixel is smaller which limits the amount of light they can emit. This is why many individuals prefer the picture rendered by a 480p PDP, which produces a lower resolution, higher contrast image.

(e.g.)

TH-50PF9UK 1080p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.576 x 0.576 mm

TH-50PX600U 720p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.81 x 0.81 mm (~30% larger = more light)

TH-42PD60U 480p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 1.08 x 1.08 mm (42" display)

What is the main purpose for higher number of shades of gray. Will you have less banding issues with the higher number? Or does it help in other areas?To paraphrase this "blurb" from Panasonic:

4096 Shades of Gradation

"Plasma displays can suffer from an artifact called "false contouring", where transitions between different shades of the same color are too sharp. These transitions can appear as distinct lines between the different shades of color. Having 4096 shades of gradation helps minimize the false contouring artifact so color transitions take on a smooth, natural appearance."

To paraphrase this "blurb" from Panasonic:

4096 Shades of Gradation

"Plasma displays can suffer from an artifact called "false contouring", where transitions between different shades of the same color are too sharp. These transitions can appear as distinct lines between the different shades of color. Having 4096 shades of gradation helps minimize the false contouring artifact so color transitions take on a smooth, natural appearance."

Wouldn't it be nice if they could say it eliminates false contouring ;)

- Rich

Wouldn't it be nice if they could say it eliminates false contouring ;)

- RichYes, but then what new features would they be able sell us next year? :D

A 1080p PDP can not achieve the same contrast ratio as a 720p plasma display because the size of each pixel is smaller which limits the amount of light they can emit. This is why many individuals prefer the picture rendered by a 480p PDP, which produces a lower resolution, higher contrast image.

(e.g.)

TH-50PF9UK 1080p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.576 x 0.576 mm

TH-50PX600U 720p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.81 x 0.81 mm (~30% larger = more light)

TH-42PD60U 480p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 1.08 x 1.08 mm (42" display)

The thing is that this theory does not hold up when you bring a larger display into the discussion:

TH-65PX600U 1080p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.747 x 0.747 mm

It should be able to achieve a CR near that of the 50" 60U model. It should certainly be higher than the 1080p TH-50PF9UK and yet it shares the same 5000:1 ratio as that model. Also note the old 768p 65" 8UK and 7UK had a Pixel pitch just slightly lower than the 42" ED models (it was within 3 or 4 hundredths of an mm) and yet had the same lower contrast ratios as the other 768 models.

I think part of the problem is that pixel _pitch_ does not necessarily predict pixel _size_.

To paraphrase this "blurb" from Panasonic:

4096 Shades of Gradation

"Plasma displays can suffer from an artifact called "false contouring", where transitions between different shades of the same color are too sharp. These transitions can appear as distinct lines between the different shades of color. Having 4096 shades of gradation helps minimize the false contouring artifact so color transitions take on a smooth, natural appearance."

What is the difference between Color Banding and False Contouring?.

4096*

*Gradation for HD model is 3072.

The 4096 number is for the full hd models. In other words all 1080p models, like the 65PX600, have 4096.



Ah, Full-HD vs HD...got it. :o
Had it reversed.

Is 1024X768 Full-HD?

What is the difference between Color Banding and False Contouring?.

None really since gray is also a color.

- Rich

Is 1024X768 Full-HD?

Full-HD is a marketing term, but it has been fairly consistently used to refer to 1920x1080 pixels.

- Rich

The thing is that this theory does not hold up when you bring a larger display into the discussion:

TH-65PX600U 1080p Pixel Pitch (H x V) 0.747 x 0.747 mm

It should be able to achieve a CR near that of the 50" 60U model. It should certainly be higher than the 1080p TH-50PF9UK and yet it shares the same 5000:1 ratio as that model. Also note the old 768p 65" 8UK and 7UK had a Pixel pitch just slightly lower than the 42" ED models (it was within 3 or 4 hundredths of an mm) and yet had the same lower contrast ratios as the other 768 models.

I think part of the problem is that pixel _pitch_ does not necessarily predict pixel _size_.I believe its better to compare apples to apples (e.g. 65" to 65" or 50" to 50", etc.) when discussing the relative CR's each product is capable of achieving.

But it is true that pixel size alone is not the only factor which determines how bright the panel can operate. Increasing the pixel density while reducing the dot pitch size was a major technical hurdle for PDP makers to overcome before they could achieve the proper balance between resolution, acceptable contrast ratio and color accuracy for the 1080p format.

None really since gray is also a color.

- Rich

Thanks Rich. So when Panasonic states that their 2007 models 4096 gradation stats will reduce False Contouring, that terminology is synonymous with what is often referred to as "The Color Banding problem". Do any of the Manufacturers actually refer to it as Color Banding instead of using the term False Contouring?.

Thanks Rich. So when Panasonic states that their 2007 models 4096 gradation stats will reduce False Contouring, that terminology is synonymous with what is often referred to as "The Color Banding problem". Do any of the Manufacturers actually refer to it as Color Banding instead of using the term False Contouring?.

Good luck with that. The terms are ever changing. :p

I believe its better to compare apples to apples (e.g. 65" to 65" or 50" to 50", etc.) when discussing the relative CR's each product is capable of achieving.

But why should this matter? If I tiled 4 42" ED displays together into a 84" display, should the contrast ratio they are capable of achieving some how go down?

But it is true that pixel size alone is not the only factor which determines how bright the panel can operate.

Right, plus like I said, pixel size is not always proportionate to pixel pitch. You were quotig pixel pitch above, not pixel size.

I wish they could ave used a nice looking adonized looking black.
Actually the process is called anodizing, as in "anode"

Hmm... "adonized" might not be a bad word to describe the plastic black bezel, as you can actually admire your own reflection in it... ;)

Edit: Nah, I was thinking of Narcissus, not Adonis. Oh well...

Yeah, Adonis got Aphrodite whereas Narcissus got just himself!

Thanks Rich. So when Panasonic states that their 2007 models 4096 gradation stats will reduce False Contouring, that terminology is synonymous with what is often referred to as "The Color Banding problem". Do any of the Manufacturers actually refer to it as Color Banding instead of using the term False Contouring?.

Can anyone comment on the picture who went to CES?

I do see more banding with a 58px600u side by side with a Pioneer 1540 in my local Magnolia.

Other than that I think i prefer the properly calibrated Panasonic 58 picture qualities to the 1540. The problem is that so many stores have very poorly set up Panasonic 50 and 58" PDPs.

Can anyone comment on the picture who went to CES?

I do see more banding with a 58px600u side by side with a Pioneer 1540 in my local Magnolia.

Other than that I think i prefer the properly calibrated Panasonic 58 picture qualities to the 1540. The problem is that so many stores have very poorly set up Panasonic 50 and 58" PDPs.

I am not sure how anybody would confuse 'color banding' and 'false contouring' terms? :eek:

Are each of the new Panasonic models going to have to new processors?

ie not just the 1080p models, but the 720p models as well.

I believe this is going to be the year I make the jump. I like what I see out of
my friend's 42" Panasonic, and I plan on getting the new 42" this fall.

42" is plenty of screen for the home I currently live in. I have a seating distance of 8.5'. When I finish school in the next 2.5 years I will be moving into a much larger home. By that time, the price on 1080p 50+" plasmas should come down to much more obtainable levels.

A (first) Review of a 50" PF9 (Full HD) Model of Panasonic:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Panasonic_TH-50PF9UK.html

Quote 1:

"The TH-50PF9UK is happiest with progressive-scan images. It doesn’t matter if they’re 480p/576p, 720p, or 1080p. Yes, this monitor does support 1080p with 24Hz, 24Hz sF, 25Hz, 30Hz, 50Hz, and 60Hz refresh rates, through the DVI, RGB, or HDMI inputs."


Quote 2:

Average power consumption during that period was 322 watts, which is on the low side for a 50-inch plasma. Total power consumption came to 3.055 KWH. Activating the Power Save feature would have reduced that number even more, but at the expense of screen brightness.



Josh

A (first) Review of a 50" PF9 (Full HD) Model of Panasonic:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Panasonic_TH-50PF9UK.html

Quote 1:

"The TH-50PF9UK is happiest with progressive-scan images. It doesn’t matter if they’re 480p/576p, 720p, or 1080p. Yes, this monitor does support 1080p with 24Hz, 24Hz sF, 25Hz, 30Hz, 50Hz, and 60Hz refresh rates, through the DVI, RGB, or HDMI inputs."

I encourage you (or anyone else reading) to read the past responses in this thread regarding this claim.

I encourage you (or anyone else reading) to read the past responses in this thread regarding this claim.

I know, that's why I post it...

Josh

PS Actually, haven't you heard? - There is a new DVI-D Board:
TY-FB9FDD 1080p DVI-D Terminal Board for Professional Series Plasma Displays (1080p models only)

See here:http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=102542&catGroupId=14624&surfModel=TH-50PF9UK&displayTab=S

Does anyone know if or when Panasonic will release pricing on the 2007 models?

You will see pricing info sometime this month.....hopefully before Valentines Day.

Are each of the new Panasonic models going to have to new processors?

ie not just the 1080p models, but the 720p models as well.

I believe this is going to be the year I make the jump. I like what I see out of
my friend's 42" Panasonic, and I plan on getting the new 42" this fall.

42" is plenty of screen for the home I currently live in. I have a seating distance of 8.5'. When I finish school in the next 2.5 years I will be moving into a much larger home. By that time, the price on 1080p 50+" plasmas should come down to much more obtainable levels.

No new processors. Just new "firmware/software" for the processors.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/v-real/index.html

I suppose its the same as when Pioneer goes from ACE III to ACE IV?

From the link, between the G10 panel, new V-Real II Processor AND Driver it seems like we may look forward to a solid improvement from the PX60/PX600's.

I cannot remember the last time Panasonic noted processing as one of the major selling points of a new generation.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/v-real/index.html

I suppose its the same as when Pioneer goes from ACE III to ACE IV?
Correct

From the link, between the G10 panel, new V-Real II Processor AND Driver it seems like we may look forward to a solid improvement from the PX60/PX600's.Solid improvement....hopefully...especially when it comes to false contouring. Again, it's not a new hardware processor or driver.

I cannot remember the last time Panasonic noted processing as one of the major selling points of a new generation. They did last year when they introduced the first V-Real ;)

Correct

Solid improvement....hopefully...especially when it comes to false contouring. Again, it's not a new hardware processor or driver.

They did last year when they introduced the first V-Real ;)

So the new V-Real is software not hardware?

Other than reducing false contouring, what will be the benefits?

Is this going to improve the color gradation?

So the new V-Real is software not hardware?Correct

Other than reducing false contouring, what will be the benefits? Not sure. Hopefully we can start seeing all of those colors they have been promising for the past 3 years.

No new processors. Just new "firmware/software" for the processors.

Any chance the new firmware will be made available for installation on my 1080p 600u?

Any chance the new firmware will be made available for installation on my 1080p 600u?

the 1080P 65px600u may already have it since its a carry over product

Correct

Not sure. Hopefully we can start seeing all of those colors they have been promising for the past 3 years.

D-Nice will these new Panasonics have HDMI 1.3.? I hope they do.

You will see pricing info sometime this month.....hopefully before Valentines Day.

Sweet! I am going to be buying a 58" and I like the picture on the 720p display but I want to see what the prices cs the current 600U are so based upon looks and price I can get either the 06' or 07' model.

Between Panny bringing the flat temps in the IRE scale and Pio making black levels that even the best CRT's cant match, it is a GOOD time to be a consumer :)[/QUOTE]

hmmm interesting, i thought the best cfrts had infinite contrast ratios due to crts true off electron gun.
how could you beat infinite if both display types were trully setup correctly :confused:

is this your personal observation or did pioneer actually give numbers comparing the two by an 'independant 'lab? in the dark and dim and bright light.

I am always leary of self demos like sed last year and oled this year
but if true the pio should be a superb display with the panny right behind. :D
hope its not pre release hype :)

Anyone knows if the new 42" 720p models will have the same resolution 1024x768 ? or they will jump to 1366x768 ?

I guess the new 42" PX75U and PX77U will be 1366x758 resoluiton. Panasonic already launches a 42" 1366x768 model in China on Jan 1. The model number is 42PV65C, so I guess the 5 is for 1366x768 resolution. The pixels size is .67mm x .67mm which is exactly the same pixel size from the 58" 1920x1080 panel.

I guess the new 42" PX75U and PX77U will be 1366x758 resoluiton. Panasonic already launches a 42" 1366x768 model in China on Jan 1. The model number is 42PV65C, so I guess the 5 is for 1366x768 resolution. The pixels size is .67mm x .67mm which is exactly the same pixel size from the 58" 1920x1080 panel.

And I guess not:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_TH_42PX75U/4505-6482_7-32317308.html

and

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_TH_42PX77U/4505-6482_7-32317315.html?tag=also

Josh

panasonic 42 inch plasma 1368x768
panasonic china website has the TH-42PV65C, yes 42 inch resolution 1368x768

HD (high-definition) panel
The HD panel has a resolution of 1,366 x 768 pixels and an aspect ratio of 16:9. It is designed for displaying the beautiful images of digital, high-definition broadcasts.

Full-HD panel
The term "full-HD panel" refers to 1,920 x 1,080-pixel panels that display progressive images of full-specification HDTV signals without the use of upsampling.

Matsushita Plasma TH-42PV65C


　　作为等离子技术的代表企业的松下公司一直走在等离子技术的前沿，此次松下VIERA系列TH-42PV65C等离子电视新品推出，也继续体现着技术与质量的完美结合，优秀的技术，以及优秀的品质和适应市场和国家标准的规格 ，让其立于不败之地。As representatives of the Panasonic plasma technology companies has been at the forefront of plasma technology. Panasonic VIERA plasma TV's New Series TH-42PV65C launched also continue to embody the perfect combination of technology and quality, excellent technology, and the excellent quality of the market and national standards and specifications, so invincible.

　　2006年岁末松下公司最新推出了的1366×768的高清物理分辨率的等离子电视TH-42PV65C，消息一经发布就受到相当多的消费者关注，毕竟这对等离子电视来说是具有夸时代意义的。Panasonic 2006, at the latest by the company's 1366 x 768 resolution HDTV Plasma Physics -- As TH-42PV65C, a news release by the considerable number of consumer concern. After all, this is the plasma TVs have exaggerated the significance of the times. 随着分辨率的提升，近距离观看时，等离子画面不够细腻，像素点大的缺点都将逐步被改善。With the resolution of the upgrade, close watch, delicate enough plasma screen, the pixel shortcomings will gradually improve.

　　外观上，这款松下TH-42PV65C沿用了VIERA系列的经典造型设计与上一代产品PV60C又很大的相似之处，长宽高的简约设计使这款等离子电视 保持着当今等离子最小提及的记录，并且重量也是最轻的，时尚的套色边框设计，黑色的内框、银灰色的外框与卧式的伴音音箱完美结合 ；流线型的面板采用曲线与直线相结合的设计，柔雅而不失简约，底座采用四角支架更添稳固。Appearance. Panasonic VIERA series TH-42PV65C adopted by the classic styling design with the previous generation products HMIPV6 0C has great similarities facial features in the design of this new type of plasma TVs maintained the records referred to the smallest plasma current, and is the lightest weight, the fashion-color frame design with a black box, Horizontal Audio's loudspeaker with the silver-gray frames perfect; Streamlined curve of the panel combined with the linear design, Sophie Blair yet simple, use 1.40 stent even more solid base.

　　此款TH-42PV65C采用了松下高清等离子屏，其最大的亮点就是符合了中国高清数字电视在分辨率上的要求，达到了1366×768的高 清分辨率，虽说同等尺寸的全高清液晶电视那是比比皆是，但由于技术原因等离子电视能够达到这个分辨率已经相当不易，其最高对比度 高大10000：1，面板寿命60000小时。TH-42PV65C used to produce a Panasonic HDTV plasma screens, China is in compliance with the biggest bright spot in the resolution of the HDTV digital television, reached a high definition resolution of 1366 x 768, although the same size of the entire high definition LCD TV is everywhere. However, due to technical reasons such as plasma TVs has been very difficult to achieve this resolution, 10000:1 contrast maximum tall, 60,000 hour panel life. 与其他等离子电视相比，松下42PV65C超凡之处在于这款电视首次采用0.67×0.67mm的像素点，而不是传统等离子0. 9×0.67mm的长方形像素点，呈现出更加细腻的画面，同时也能发挥出等离子在动态图像对应上的优势。Compared with other plasma TVs. Panasonic television 42PV65C This is the first time extraordinary about 0.67 x 0.67mm pixel, instead of the traditional rectangular plasma 0.9 x 0.67mm pixel, showing a more subtle picture Plasma can also play a dynamic image in the corresponding advantages. 显示技术方面配备了松下3D色彩管理以及动态噪波抑制技术，有效改善画面细节表现不够细腻和杂色干扰问题。Mats ushita Display Technology connection with the management and dynamic 3D Color Picture suppression, effectively improve performance enough details delicate and variegated picture interference. 松下独创的C.A.T.S.对比度自动跟踪系统，可以通过自动检测输入信号的变化，根据不同的明暗场景，即时调整背光亮度和液晶 光阀的开启比率，从而实现超高对比，使画面细节表现优秀，层次感丰富。Matsushita innovative C.A.T.S. Contrast Automatic Tracking System, through the automatic detection of input signal changes Under the shade of different scenes to adjust backlight brightness liquid crystal light valve and the opening ratio, so as to achieve high contrast. Details outstanding painting, layering rich.

　　在接口方面，拥有双HDMI接口，复合视频信号输入，RCA phono型、S-Video输入，MiniDIN4针，音频输入，电脑输入：MiniD-sub15针，分量视频信号输入，耳机插孔，并且为了更好的进行散热，在机身背后有三个比较大的风扇，保证了产品内部的空气流通 。In the interface, it has two HDMI interfaces, composite video signal input, RCA phono-, S-Video imported MiniDIN4 needle, audio input, the computer : MiniD-sub15 principle component video signal input, a headphone Socket, and in order to better carry out the heat. in the fuselage behind three large fans to ensure that the product's internal air circulation.

　　点评：松下TH-42PV65C的上市直接导致了42PV60C的停产，并且新品上市13000元的价格并不算过分，再者，等离子也彻底摆脱了分 辨率低的帽子，使得画面表现的更加细腻，舒服，再加上松下一直以来的技术和品质，此款电视的市场一片大好。Comm ents : Matsushita TH-42PV65C 42PV60C a direct result of the listing of shutdown New listing 13,000 yuan and the price is not out of line Moreover, the low-resolution plasma has completely got rid of the label. performance makes the picture more detailed, comfortable, Matsushita has been coupled with the technology and quality. to produce the television market is excellent. 无论是同产品线的纵向比较还是跨产品线的横向比较，都有很大的优势。Both product lines with the longitudinal or transverse cross-product lines, have a big advantage.



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【内容导航】[Navigation and content -- 第1页：LG 42PC1RR 等离子Page 1 : LG plasma 42PC1RR 第2页：日立42PD9900TC等离子电视 报价：16990元Page 2 : Hitachi plasma television offers : 16,990 yuan 42PD9900TC
第3页：飞利浦 42PF9531/93 等离子电视 报价：16488元P. 3 : Philips 42PF9531/93 plasma television offers : 16,488 yuan 第4页：松下42PV65C 等离子电视 报价：13990元Page 4 : Panasonic plasma television

Or here:

http://www.panasonic.cn/products/viera/pdp/42pv65c.jsp

Very interesting, great find!

Some stuff I found:
(in order to get the translation you need to copy and paste the url)


64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://group.zol.com.cn/14/314_132539.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTH-42PV65C%26hl%3Den

64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://group.zol.com.cn/14/314_132652.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTH-42PV65C%26hl%3Den

Believe or not, the reason Panasonic 42" plasma is 1366x758 is because the chinese authority has just recently provides certification to HDTV television sets sold in China and the minimum requirement is that the native resolution must be at least 720p which translate to 1366x768 pixels.

The reason? Its because Beijing Olympic 2008 will be broadcast entirely in HDTV, and Panasonic is just so happened to be the "official" sponsor of the event. So expect a big surprise from Panasonic when the 75, 77 and 700 models hit the shelf around the world this summer.

What does everybody think: if the 75s really came out at 1366x768, would PQ improve dramatically, incrementally, or not noticeably?

Intriguing rumour, anyway!

deep throat needs to do some heavy explaining. The article quotes 1368x768 resolution marketed only for the chinese market, so may not be available elsewhere. the pixel size is very tiny, this translates to very sharp pictures.

deep throat needs to do some heavy explaining. The article quotes 1368x768 resolution marketed only for the chinese market, so may not be available elsewhere. the pixel size is very tiny, this translates to very sharp pictures.

Not only for China but some Japanese threads also indicates that Panasonic Plasma TV model number for 2007 (hence the "7" numbering) will be the same globally regardless of the size:

PZ750 and PZ700 will be a 1920x1080p Full HD panel
PX700, PX77 and PX75 will be a 1366x768 HD panel

The reason the model number 42PV65C was used in China is because the model was actually launched in Dec 2006 and hence the "6" was used and "5" indicates its a 1366x768 panel.

Pixel pitch falls between the 50PF and the 65PF but with a claimed contrast ratio of 10,000:1 unlike its full HD 5000:1 siblings.


Given the pricing pressure from LCD I would be surprised to see Panasonic using expensive PDP capacity to churn out 42"panels at different resolutions.Hopefully we will also see these in the US.

Costco now has 2 1080p models for sale on their website, but they took the 50" off for some reason, now they're only showing the 65" 1080p.

Panasonic's proposed price of $6,000 for a 50" 1080p plasma is ridiculous, especially when a 50" 768 model Panasonic already sells for under $2k. Hopefully that MSRP will drop drastically when shipping starts in the US.

Panasonic's proposed price of $6,000 for a 50" 1080p plasma is ridiculous, especially when a 50" 768 model Panasonic already sells for under $2k. Hopefully that MSRP will drop drastically when shipping starts in the US.

You're talking about the price of the PF9 not the new PZ700/PZ750 right?

I don't think prices has been released for those yet.

Panasonic's proposed price of $6,000 for a 50" 1080p plasma is ridiculous, especially when a 50" 768 model Panasonic already sells for under $2k. Hopefully that MSRP will drop drastically when shipping starts in the US.

Well the 1080p model streets closer to $4.5k so its not as big a contrast as you imply. But I do agree that the $6000k MSRP for the 1080p looks pretty ridiculous standing next to the $3000k MSRP of the 768p model.

I think that we are going to see a dramatic drop in 1080p prices over the course of this year. I suspect tier 1 brand street pricing for a 50" 1080p plasma will be under $3k by Christmas. That still may leave them behind 46"-52" LCD pricing, but at least they'll be in the ballpark.

According to Panasonic Annual Management Policy Meeting For 2007 (Jan 10, 2007)

42" Panasonic Full HD will be available this Spring

Looks like it will be very exciting for Panasonic in 2007!

According to Panasonic Annual Management Policy Meeting For 2007 (Jan 10, 2007)

42" Panasonic Full HD will be available this Spring

Looks like it will be very exciting for Panasonic in 2007!

Not for the North American market.

Anyone with inside knowledge (and there seem to be one or two) care to "speculate" on the MSRPs we'll see, supposedly within a week?

D-Nice (or anyone else): can you confirm / deny that North America will get the 1366x768 42"?

I suspect street price will be lower than suspected.

New LCD plants are going to be pumping out 50" and above 1080p panels in large quantities. They will be priced to move.

Most consumers aren't going to pay much of a premium for a 1080p plasma over a 1080p LCD. This is particularly true for a mid-market brand like Panasonic.

Frankly, the 1080p over 720p is more marketing than substance at this point. But it will influence consumer buying decisions.

Look for the Panny 50" and 58" 720p sets in particular to drop drastically soon, including the new models.

I suspect street price will be lower than suspected.

New LCD plants are going to be pumping out 50" and above 1080p panels in large quantities. They will be priced to move.

Most consumers aren't going to pay much of a premium for a 1080p plasma over a 1080p LCD. This is particularly true for a mid-market brand like Panasonic.

Frankly, the 1080p over 720p is more marketing than substance at this point. But it will influence consumer buying decisions.

Look for the Panny 50" and 58" 720p sets in particular to drop drastically soon, including the new models.

I agree with all that, but would like someone in the know to confirm with numbers. I think the competition with LCD will be intense with the base 75 series for the 42 and 50 inch range but not for 58. The big plasma competition should heat up from others like Phillips and LG at the 63 and 60 inch sizes. I just don't see how Panny can continue to outsell those well known (albeit inferior) brands to the masses if they charge a dollar more for their smaller set, and the Phillips should street close to $3000 by late summer with an MSRP of $3500 in June. I guess we won't know the Panny reaction to that until then, so maybe the MSRP announcement in the next week will be somewhat irrelevant.

IIRC new panels are generally introduced at the same msrp as the current panels.The current panels are discounted at the retail level until stocks are depleted.Usually around April/May I think we have gotten the first round of price drops on the new panels.

Of course past performance is no guarantee of future earnings. ;)

So here is a question I have, that I hope some of you will be able to assist me with finding an answer.

I notice that many have posted your best guesses as to what the 2007 Panasonic Plasma models will be priced at when they hit the market.

Since I would hate to see all your fine guess work go to waste, will I be able to take your lowest price guess and get any of the authorized Panasonic Plasma vendors to price match your lowest guess. I sure hope I can, so that all that fine guess work does not go unavailed of by consumers. Thank you for all your fine guess work. :)

D-Nice (or anyone else): can you confirm / deny that North America will get the 1366x768 42"?

im very curious about this too.

THIS (http://www.net-ir.ne.jp/setumei/e67520701eir/mms/start.html) makes it sound like they plan on the full 1080p panel.

Credit tinghai for the heads up.

The report list spring 2007 full hd 42 plasma at a very competitive price to capture maket share from lcd. Also better resolution 720 plasma (1368x768) 42,50,58. 37 inch included.

The report list spring 2007 full hd 42 plasma at a very competitive price to capture maket share from lcd. Also better resolution 720 plasma (1368x768) 42,50,58. 37 inch included.

Are you speaking of the $2499-3000 price tag that has been floating around? And did the report list the North American market for Spring '07 or did it say Japan ;)

IIRC new panels are generally introduced at the same msrp as the current panels.The current panels are discounted at the retail level until stocks are depleted.Usually around April/May I think we have gotten the first round of price drops on the new panels.
That has not been the pattern for the Panasonic plasmas for the last 3 years. The new models come out with a MSRP price drop which also applies to the equivalent previous year models. The initial press release at CES PX60s had a lowered price, but there was another $200 or so price drop when the PX60s actually starting shipping. With the rapid pace of price cuts in the flat panel, Panasonic may hold back on what the prices will be for the new 2007 models until they are close to shipping.

A 1366x768 42" Panasonic plasma at the right price should be a hit with the more educated consumers. 1080p won't add much at all in a typical living/rec room setup at 42". But the main market will be driven by simple specs, so that is why Panny has to push to a 1080p 42" plasma to stay ahead of the same size LCDs.

THIS (http://www.net-ir.ne.jp/setumei/e67520701eir/mms/start.html) makes it sound like they plan on the full 1080p panel.

Credit tinghai for the heads up.

I guess the 42" 1080p will be for Japan only initially, that's why they displayed at CES as prototype. Here's some of the photos from that Internal meeting:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070110/pana_01.jpg

Panny 2007 Flat Panel TV strategy (37" or greater):
- Significant imrovement on basic features and functions
- Beat LCD in cost
- Full HD product expansion
* 42 Full HDTV will launch in spring 2007
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070110/pana_07.jpg

Panny 2007-2009 Plasma strategy
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070110/pana_18.jpg

That has not been the pattern for the Panasonic plasmas for the last 3 years. The new models come out with a MSRP price drop which also applies to the equivalent previous year models. The initial press release at CES PX60s had a lowered price, but there was another $200 or so price drop when the PX60s actually starting shipping. With the rapid pace of price cuts in the flat panel, Panasonic may hold back on what the prices will be for the new 2007 models until they are close to shipping.

Not sure if info for the px25 or px50 has any relevance to today.
I think we are saying the same thing as far as the px60 is concerned.The most recent new panel, the 9uk, was introduced at the same MSRP as the 8 series.

post #47
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=685667&page=2&pp=30

I think bottom line is do not expect major price drops until the old stock has been cleared out. :)

I too recall that when MSRPs were announced in early 2006 for the 50px600 and 50px60, that they were about $300-400 less than the MSRPs at that time on the 50px500 and 50px50.

Having said that, there are great deals on the current model px60 and px600's and there do not seem to be as many supply issues... so MSRP discounts don't mean much when current models are going well, well below that. Compare with early 2006 when it was very hard or impossible to find a 50px500u and if you did there was not near the discount that is available on current models.

One only has to look at a 500u to see the difference in build quality and PQ.
I would not put much into the 600u series pricing cuts as any indication the same will happen in 2007.

So here is a question I have, that I hope some of you will be able to assist me with finding an answer.

I notice that many have posted your best guesses as to what the 2007 Panasonic Plasma models will be priced at when they hit the market.

Since I would hate to see all your fine guess work go to waste, will I be able to take your lowest price guess and get any of the authorized Panasonic Plasma vendors to price match your lowest guess. I sure hope I can, so that all that fine guess work does not go unavailed of by consumers. Thank you for all your fine guess work. :)

Your sarcasm did nothing to slow the guess work. Not that it should--many of these forums are set up to collect the best guesses on future product features/prices/etc.

On that note, does anyone think the Vizios of the world and their already-available 60" with MSRP of $2999 will have any effect at all on Panny 58" prices? I'm guessing (again) that the Vizio will street for $2500 by the time the Pannys hit the shelves. Can Panny afford to street for $1000+ more and not lose sales?

Your sarcasm did nothing to slow the guess work.
Uh oh... sounds like the start of a cricket match... Wales vs. Greenland :p

Uh oh... sounds like the start of a cricket match... Wales vs. Greenland :p

Not at all. Actually very helpful. I am guessing that when the 2007 Panasonic Plasma models MSRP prices are set, they will be absolutely spot on the MSRP prices that Panasonic sets. I was just hoping to leverage GSRP(Guessers Suggested Retail Prices) to negotiate a lower price match. Surely the vendors will feel honor bound to respect the skill of the guesser!. I guess, that I will just have to wait and see which of the guessers guessed right. :)

Uh oh... sounds like the start of a cricket match... Wales vs. Greenland :p

I guess I should start using emoticons to take any unintended sting out of my comments. :o But Wales would take Greenland in cricket every time. :p

Not at all. Actually very helpful. I am guessing that when the 2007 Panasonic Plasma models MSRP prices are set, they will be absolutely spot on the MSRP prices that Panasonic sets. I was just hoping to leverage GSRP(Guessers Suggested Retail Prices) to negotiate a lower price match. Surely the vendors will feel honor bound to respect the skill of the guesser!. I guess, that I will just have to wait and see which of the guessers guessed right. :)

I think that requires a sarcastic emoticon: :rolleyes:

You will see pricing info sometime this month.....hopefully before Valentines Day.

Any update on this, and are you willing to provide your informed estimate of where the plasma MSRPs will be, either now or after they start shipping?

Any update on this, and are you willing to provide your informed estimate of where the plasma MSRPs will be, either now or after they start shipping?

Costco had the 65 and 50's for a day or two, but took the 50 off the website. The TH-65PF9UK is still there it's pretty pricey(7.7). The 50 was listed for 4.5 or 5.5 if i recall correctly.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11196351&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

I guess I should start using emoticons to take any unintended sting out of my comments. :o But Wales would take Greenland in cricket every time. :p

You just wait until the Global Warming opens up some Cricket Grounds, and we get to import some of those sissified sticky wicket costumes that you leek lovers wear, and we will bowl your arses over. I would offer to make a wager on the match, but we all know that you lot are just a bunch of welchers. :D

Costco had the 65 and 50's for a day or two, but took the 50 off the website. The TH-65PF9UK is still there it's pretty pricey(7.7). The 50 was listed for 4.5 or 5.5 if i recall correctly.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11196351&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

I was thinking more along the lines of the Spring lineup, like a 50" and 58" 75 series.

But 7.7 for the 65" is ridiculous. I hope having a slightly lower end model with a respectable name (Phillips 63" 1080p) in the field in summer will change things. I think that's got $5500 for MSRP, so will street for about $2500 less than Panny's current 65". That's got to bring Panny down a bit. Not that I can afford a big 1080p this year at any of those prices.

Crickets....I hear they are big in India. ;)
Or....in here at times when information is needed. :D
A manly post about Cricket is kinda funny to read though.

Crickets....I hear they are big in India. ;)
Or....in here at times when information is needed. :D
A manly post about Cricket is kinda funny to read though.Aren't there a lot of good call-center jobs in India for people who can speak broken English? :)

FWIW, the Panasonic Purchase Program site up until recently carried the full line of all 600u, 60u and 6u PDP's (11 in all from 65" to 37"). Yesterday I noticed that they now only carry these five:
TH-65PX600U
TH-50PX60U
TH-42PX600U
TH-42PX60U
TH-37PX60U

Hopefully this means the new models (at least the 75 and 77's) will be available sooner rather than later.

One only has to look at a 500u to see the difference in build quality and PQ.

Would you mind clarifying this further? I know this is slightly off topic but we are all just waiting for more info in this thread anyway...

I know some preferred the 500u's mostly black bezel to the 600u's but I have not heard too many opinions of build quality and PQ coming into question as being downgraded from 500/50u to 600/60u. Not asking for links of everyone who feels this way, just wondering what your thoughts were on this.

My opinion is still that the MSRPs should drop a little for the new 768p models from the equivalent existing models due to the pressures from LCD and that Panny must tier the prices of the 768p and 1080p consumer versions of a particular size. Throw in Vizio and Phillips pressures (60+ inch) as discussed and..... I guess we shall see.

A little birdie I spoke with who attended CES thought they heard MSRPs of about 2500/2800 for the 75/77 50" models.

Would you mind clarifying this further? I know this is slightly off topic but we are all just waiting for more info in this thread anyway...

I know some preferred the 500u's mostly black bezel to the 600u's but I have not heard too many opinions of build quality and PQ coming into question as being downgraded from 500/50u to 600/60u. Not asking for links of everyone who feels this way, just wondering what your thoughts were on this.


Well....the 60u's were just out when I purchased my 50Px500u and I really wanted to get the latest (the 600u actually) but it wasn't out at that point.
I seriously considered a Pioneer 1130HD but was just not that impressed as I was with the 500u. I do believe these two choices were the best that I had seen at that point. The 60u just was not even close to my eyes.
I now see both (60u @ dad's house) and mine and I made the right choice.
I am not saying the 60/600u are bad but just missing something that the 50/500u's had.
I think the fact that the 500u was plasma of the year and you were lucky to even be able to buy one speaks volumes, don't you think!

On that note, does anyone think the Vizios of the world and their already-available 60" with MSRP of $2999 will have any effect at all on Panny 58" prices? I'm guessing (again) that the Vizio will street for $2500 by the time the Pannys hit the shelves. Can Panny afford to street for $1000+ more and not lose sales?

Well it looks like the Panasonic (the 60U variant) already comes close to your number on the street. Of course it also lacks a VGA port and is down two HDMI port vs. the Vizio.

I would not be surprised to at all see a fairly deep MSRP cut on the current Panasonic plasmas before the new 7X/7X0 series begin shipping aroud April (that is the traditional time that the consumer displays start to show up). How much more they come down iin actual OTD cost (at least in the immediate future) as a result, I don't know. But it will pave the way to lower street pricing of the course of the year.

Aren't there a lot of good call-center jobs in India for people who can speak broken English? :)

You are correct. Pack your suitcases. :)

New videos at:
http://www.panasonic.com/cesshow/ces2007.html
The "Picture Perfection with Panasonic Plasma TVs" about 2/3rds way in shows a quick vid past all the models. Pretty fast though.

I have a quick question which I don't recall seeing addressed specifically in this thread and it concerns the 65" model. Will the current 65" model be replaced by TH-65PZ700U and TH-65PZ750U models? The reason I ask is the Panasonic press release didn't list such models and only mentioned the current model. So reading that it sort of looks like a new 65" will not be released and will continue with the current cosmetics.

Thanks,

Rod

There was a post awhile back where someone stated that the 75u would have an anti-reflective coating, while the 77u would have an antiglare coating that is somewhat reminicent of the frosted LCD look. Can anyone comment on whether it is correct that they are adding an anti-reflective coating to the 75u, perhaps something similar to the coating on the 600U today?

i like the Panasonic black level and overal pic, better than the Pioneer imho (i'd say with dvd res. with hd of course a Pany and a Pioneer look stunning).
but there's somethiing about the Panasonic's skills in black level, blacks.

i rank them nr 1 in plasma category imho.

On the subject of anti-glare... Does anyone know exactly what the anti-glare properties of the 60 and the 600 are? Does the 600 have better glare-reduction, or is it the same as the 60? I thought the differences between the two were limited to the styling, the sound wattage, and a handful of minor features... The Panny web site doesn't say anything about anti-glare coating for either model, so I just assumed it was minimal or nonexistent on both.

And how do these models really look in a bright room (i.e. not the perfectly controlled lab-like environment of an electronics superstore), say with a few big & bright windows? Is the glare pretty brutal, or is it something you could live with?

Thanks guys. Long-time reader, first-time poster. :)

there is no one-size-fits-all answer to the question raised in your second paragraph. Opinions are all over the map, with some saying that it's awful and they cannot deal with the reflections and others who say it's not that big of a deal at all, and even without optimal light control, they are perfectly happy with it, reflections and all. Then there are those who's opinions fall somewhere in the middle.

If you've had a CRT in your recent television history, remember how you've felt about reflection in that context, and this should give you the best idea as to how much it will annoy you with a plasma. BAre in mind, the plasmas are coated a little better than CRTs, and will show a bit less reflection, but not enough to make you forget about it.

.... Does the 600 have better glare-reduction, or is it the same as the 60? ....
My understanding is that they are the same with respect to glare.


There was a post awhile back where someone stated that the 75u would have an anti-reflective coating, while the 77u would have an antiglare coating that is somewhat reminicent of the frosted LCD look. Can anyone comment on whether it is correct that they are adding an anti-reflective coating to the 75u, perhaps something similar to the coating on the 600U today?
This was the post if anyone interested:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9436765&&#post9436765

Anyone have insode info. or an educated guess as to what Qtr./Yr. we will see the 42" 1080p Plasma in the US?

Anyone have insode info. or an educated guess as to what Qtr./Yr. we will see the 42" 1080p Plasma in the US?


After this official doc. it will be in this spring... Well.. :rolleyes:

http://www.net-ir.ne.jp/setumei/e67520701eir/mms/start.html

Joshy

On the subject of anti-glare... Does anyone know exactly what the anti-glare properties of the 60 and the 600 are? Does the 600 have better glare-reduction, or is it the same as the 60? I thought the differences between the two were limited to the styling, the sound wattage, and a handful of minor features... The Panny web site doesn't say anything about anti-glare coating for either model, so I just assumed it was minimal or nonexistent on both.

And how do these models really look in a bright room (i.e. not the perfectly controlled lab-like environment of an electronics superstore), say with a few big & bright windows? Is the glare pretty brutal, or is it something you could live with?

Thanks guys. Long-time reader, first-time poster. :)
This is an impossible question to answer here. It depends on the specific light in your specific room directed onto those specific objects and surfaces that directly reflect off the display and onto the specific viewing position at your specific eye level. It's not the general light level in the room or even necessarily the light falling directly onto the screen but rather the light falling on the objects in the room that happen to reflect from the viewer's position.

Sometimes just tilting the display a few degrees up or down or swiveling the display a bit can mitigate or eliminate the problem. The color and texture of items visable as reflections also makes a large difference. White sofas can be a problem.

So this whole issue is entirely room dependent and very sensitive to what are sometimes small variations within the room.

Of course, the easiest solution most of the time is reasonable control of both light entering the room and light generated within the room.

Cheers, :)

Gary

New 42 Full HD Plasma has a name: 42PZ700

Here some Info:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fplusd.itmedia.co.jp%2Flifestyle%2Farticles% 2F0701%2F08%2Fnews011.html

and here:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.co.jp%2Fcorp%2Fnews%2Fofficial.da ta%2Fdata.dir%2Fjn070108-1%2Fjn070108-1.html%3Fref%3Dnews

Joshy

After this official doc. it will be in this spring... Well.. :rolleyes:

http://www.net-ir.ne.jp/setumei/e67520701eir/mms/start.html

Joshy


I like the part that says "Outstrip LCDs with overwhelming cost competitiveness". Let's hope, huh? :D

New 42 Full HD Plasma has a name: 42PZ700
I didn't get that from the translations.

Still no pricing info? The chances of getting it by V-day as someone guessed are getting slimmer.

Called local big box retailer that often gets prices in its computer a couple months out and they didn't have any info at all yet. That's not the most reliable source, but for previous sony releases they had the price before sony publicly released it so I thought I'd give it a shot.

I didn't get that from the translations.


New Models are:

TH-50PZ750 TH-42PZ750
TH-42PZ750 TH-42PZ700
TH-42PX700 TH-42PX700

see also http://jeep-c.seesaa.net/ (not yet translated)
(go "Google")

Josh

New Models are:

TH-50PZ750 TH-42PZ750
TH-42PZ750 TH-42PZ700
TH-42PX700 TH-42PX700

see also http://jeep-c.seesaa.net/ (not yet translated)
(go "Google")

Josh


Where is the 58" 1080p?

This is an impossible question to answer here. It depends on the specific light in your specific room directed onto those specific objects and surfaces that directly reflect off the display and onto the specific viewing position at your specific eye level. It's not the general light level in the room or even necessarily the light falling directly onto the screen but rather the light falling on the objects in the room that happen to reflect from the viewer's position.

Sometimes just tilting the display a few degrees up or down or swiveling the display a bit can mitigate or eliminate the problem. The color and texture of items visable as reflections also makes a large difference. White sofas can be a problem.

So this whole issue is entirely room dependent and very sensitive to what are sometimes small variations within the room.

Of course, the easiest solution most of the time is reasonable control of both light entering the room and light generated within the room.

Cheers, :)

Gary


This is why I strongly recommend spending a few extra bucks and get a "articulating arm" mount. This mount allows you to adjust your display for horizontal & vertical tilt and assist in reducing or eliminating those unique room reflections.

Weren't prices supposed to be announced yesterday? Anyone heard anything?

Weren't prices supposed to be announced yesterday? Anyone heard anything?


Look up the TH-42PX75U and TH-50PX75U on CNET. You'll see preorder prices from one internet retailer. These prices (before shipping) seem to be somewhat higher than the big box stores' prices for the equivalent 2006 models. However, this retailer is also selling the 2006 models at a higher price than a lot of places.
That suggests to me that the street prices of the 2007 models will be lower at a lot of other places. Let's hope, huh?

I'm trying to get the point across without naming dealers and prices, so I hope what I typed above makes sense.

Can't wait to find out the price of the TH-50PZ700U. This is the one I want.

Look up the TH-42PX75U and TH-50PX75U on CNET. You'll see preorder prices from one internet retailer. These prices (before shipping) seem to be somewhat higher than the big box stores' prices for the equivalent 2006 models. However, this retailer is also selling the 2006 models at a higher price than a lot of places.
That suggests to me that the street prices of the 2007 models will be lower at a lot of other places. Let's hope, huh?

I'm trying to get the point across without naming dealers and prices, so I hope what I typed above makes sense.

That site lists the retail (MSRP) for the 50px75u to be $2899, which is a welcome $500 decrease from the 2006 model.

That site lists the retail (MSRP) for the 50px75u to be $2899, which is a welcome $500 decrease from the 2006 model.

Nevermind.
The 60u already MSRP's for $2799 which would be the equivalent model to the 75px.

I'm waiting on MSRP on the 58's

I'm waiting on MSRP on the 58's

Me too.
The 58PX75U in particular.
I just hope they didn't make it any thicker.

Its the only large PDP that I am aware of that is under 4" (58PX60U) and has a hole pattern that will accept the 1" thick wall mounts.

As much as I love the 6070, it is 4.75" + 2" thick for the larger wall mount due to the mounting screw spacing.

It wouldn't be a big deal if i got to put it on the wall I wanted to, but I am married.

Hey, newbie here. Was in the market for a 50PX60U, but the upcoming 75U/77U have caught my attention, so I may wait on them.

How effective will the anti-glare coating be on the 77U? Will the difference be significant as compared to a traditional plasma glass or only subtle? Will the anti-glare coating diminish side viewing angles any?

Also, would anyone care to speculate as to how much higher in price the 77U will be than the 75U?

I read the earlier comments that explained that screen glare depends on the individual room, but I guess I'm looking for a general comparison of anti-glare to no-anti-glare. Don't some of the other manufacturers have anti-glare plasma screens already? I would just go look for myself, but unfortunately, the nearest Best Buy or Circuit City is 45 minutes away, so it may be a couple of weeks before I can make it.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I’m hoping the TH-50PZ700U does not have a higher MSRP than $3500.00.

That site lists the retail (MSRP) for the 50px75u to be $2899, which is a welcome $500 decrease from the 2006 model.
Pay little attention to the MSRP on the web retailers sites such as this one. They often leave up an inflated or an old MSRP just to make their price look better. They probably don't even know the MSRP for the new models yet. The TH-50PX60U has been at a aggressive sales prices at the major B&M chains for some weeks now. The odds are that the replacement lower end 50PX75U model MSRP will be not that far above that long running sales price.

The big question to me is what the MSRPs will be for the 50" and 58" 1080p models? We will have to wait and see.

Pay little attention to the MSRP on the web retailers sites such as this one. They often leave up an inflated or an old MSRP just to make their price look better. They probably don't even know the MSRP for the new models yet. The TH-50PX60U has been at a aggressive sales prices at the major B&M chains for some weeks now. The odds are that the replacement lower end 50PX75U model MSRP will be not that far above that long running sales price.

The big question to me is what the MSRPs will be for the 50" and 58" 1080p models? We will have to wait and see.

Sooner than later I hope.

Sooner than later I hope.

Yes, but flat panel prices have been so volatile lately with competion from ever falling LCD prices that even the "official" MSRP on the new 1080p models may not hold for very long.

I didn't know where to post this, so I'll post it here:

Last year I "hinted" on AVS that Pioneer and Panasonic were "collaborating" with their plasma tech. Well it seems as if someone at Panasonic has accidently spilled the beans (I don't think this was suppose to be said publicly).

http://forbruker.no/digital/nyheter/tv/article1643458.ece?service=print

Relevant plasma quote translated per forum member "likvid" in the BD player forum:

"Panasonic hasn't either made any progress to fix the filter that gives a double image when you sit at the side of the display and watching.

The filter or the distance between the layers has narrowed down says Kitamura, but we will get rid of it eventually when Pioneer has fixed everything.

Kitamura tells us this is not a "major" problem, but he assures us he wish problem will get fixed soon."

Interesting

Hey, newbie here. Was in the market for a 50PX60U, but the upcoming 75U/77U have caught my attention, so I may wait on them.

How effective will the anti-glare coating be on the 77U? Will the difference be significant as compared to a traditional plasma glass or only subtle? Will the anti-glare coating diminish side viewing angles any?

Also, would anyone care to speculate as to how much higher in price the 77U will be than the 75U?

I read the earlier comments that explained that screen glare depends on the individual room, but I guess I'm looking for a general comparison of anti-glare to no-anti-glare. Don't some of the other manufacturers have anti-glare plasma screens already? I would just go look for myself, but unfortunately, the nearest Best Buy or Circuit City is 45 minutes away, so it may be a couple of weeks before I can make it.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I think the effectiveness of the anti-glare coating varies so much with various manufacturers that nobody is going to know how the 77u looks until they see one and compare it to the 75u that doesn't have it.

Yes, but flat panel prices have been so volatile lately with competion from ever falling LCD prices that even the "official" MSRP on the new 1080p models may not hold for very long.

True, any word if these babies will have HDMI 1.3?

I have a quick question which I don't recall seeing addressed specifically in this thread and it concerns the 65" model. Will the current 65" model be replaced by TH-65PZ700U and TH-65PZ750U models? The reason I ask is the Panasonic press release didn't list such models and only mentioned the current model. So reading that it sort of looks like a new 65" will not be released and will continue with the current cosmetics.
panasonic had said the th65px600u and the th103px600u would be carried over for the whole year, no "new" model or change in cosmetics. can hope though......if nothing else maybe they can lower the msrp and include a stand and speakers:)

Look at post #86 in this thread. Lelekid posted a photo of the 50" 77U next to the 75U (I think). The screen on the 77U looks very different. I don't know how it will affect side viewing angles, but it's definitely anti-reflective. In fact, I wonder how affects the picture quality.

Pay little attention to the MSRP on the web retailers sites such as this one. They often leave up an inflated or an old MSRP just to make their price look better. They probably don't even know the MSRP for the new models yet. The TH-50PX60U has been at a aggressive sales prices at the major B&M chains for some weeks now. The odds are that the replacement lower end 50PX75U model MSRP will be not that far above that long running sales price.

The big question to me is what the MSRPs will be for the 50" and 58" 1080p models? We will have to wait and see.

FWIW: I called the one web site that lists a "retail" price of $2899 for the 50" 75u and he said they wouldn't just throw a price in there and that they must have received that as the official msrp from Panasonic or it wouldn't be up on their site. I asked about the 58" 75u and he said they had no info on that yet but he had a personal interest in that tv and he expected to get that info and put it up on their site within a week.

I didn't expect them to admit they made up a price but it does make some sense that if they were making up prices on their own they wouldn't stop at one model.

He did note that by the time they are scheduled to ship in April Panasonic may have dropped the msrp a little bit, but he doubted they would drop it that quickly.

On the 58" 1080p models, the only downward price pressure appears to be from Philips with a 63" 1080p due out in June. That's at $5500 msrp but with Philips not being a premium brand it may street for under $5k right away (no way to tell at this point).

I’m hoping the TH-50PZ700U does not have a higher MSRP than $3500.00.

That one doesn't hit stores until the summer, so if they stagger the msrp releases you may not know what it is until Spring. $3500 for msrp of a 1080p seems a bit low, but by summer who knows.

panasonic had said the th65px600u and the th103px600u would be carried over for the whole year, no "new" model or change in cosmetics. can hope though......if nothing else maybe they can lower the msrp and include a stand and speakers:)


Thanks for the response.

This is unfortunate news but a price cut and the inclusion of speakers and especially the stand would be nice if that were to happen. Here in Canada the price dropped $3000 a couple of weeks ago so hopefully that is a trend that will continue later in the spring or early summer.

I was really hoping for a new model or at least the cosmetics change. I was hoping to purchase either the "next" version of this model this year or the new 60" 1080p Pioneer slated to arrive this summer. I would really like whatever tv I get to have a HDMI 1.3 connection to take advantage of deep color for when/if sources becme available that take advantage of that capability as I don't intend to buy another tv for a number of years.

Rod

I would really like whatever tv I get to have a HDMI 1.3 connection to take advantage of deep color for when/if sources becme available that take advantage of that capability as I don't intend to buy another tv for a number of years.

Rod

From what I've read from The HDGURU, HDMI 1.3 isn't a really a factor in a plasma set because plasma doesn't support the wide color gamut.

"As far as 1.3 is concerned, the big deal for displays is the potential for a larger color space (which will first appear in PS3 games). This can’t not be done with phosphor based products like CRTs and Plasmas. You will only see it on LED or Laser lit products such as microdisplay rear projection and LED backlit LCDs when they arrive later in 2007."

I didn't know where to post this, so I'll post it here:

Last year I "hinted" on AVS that Pioneer and Panasonic were "collaborating" with their plasma tech. Well it seems as if someone at Panasonic has accidently spilled the beans (I don't think this was suppose to be said publicly).

http://forbruker.no/digital/nyheter/tv/article1643458.ece?service=print

Relevant plasma quote translated per forum member "likvid" in the BD player forum:

"Panasonic hasn't either made any progress to fix the filter that gives a double image when you sit at the side of the display and watching.

The filter or the distance between the layers has narrowed down says Kitamura, but we will get rid of it eventually when Pioneer has fixed everything.

Kitamura tells us this is not a "major" problem, but he assures us he wish problem will get fixed soon."

InterestingMmmm, 58" SuperBlack Panny Commercial. Come to Papa!


ron

Look at post #86 in this thread. Lelekid posted a photo of the 50" 77U next to the 75U (I think). The screen on the 77U looks very different. I don't know how it will affect side viewing angles, but it's definitely anti-reflective. In fact, I wonder how affects the picture quality.

Thanks for the heads-up on the photo. It does appear that the glare is reduced. I'm tired of waiting, but am going to wait until these come out before buying.

From what I've read from The HDGURU, HDMI 1.3 isn't a really a factor in a plasma set because plasma doesn't support the wide color gamut.

"As far as 1.3 is concerned, the big deal for displays is the potential for a larger color space (which will first appear in PS3 games). This can’t not be done with phosphor based products like CRTs and Plasmas. You will only see it on LED or Laser lit products such as microdisplay rear projection and LED backlit LCDs when they arrive later in 2007."


Wow, I didn't realize this. If true I guess this would fall into the good thing/bad thing category. It's good that one would not really need to worry about waiting for HDMI 1.3 plasmas to come out but bad that the technology does not support the higher color depths. In theory deep color is a good thing but I would really like to see if it is noticeable on displays that can handle it. A side by side comparison with a non deep color source/display would be interesting to see.

Thanks,

Rod

Wow, I didn't realize this. If true I guess this would fall into the good thing/bad thing category. It's good that one would not really need to worry about waiting for HDMI 1.3 plasmas to come out but bad that the technology does not support the higher color depths. In theory deep color is a good thing but I would really like to see if it is noticeable on displays that can handle it. A side by side comparison with a non deep color source/display would be interesting to see.

Thanks,

Rod

Anyone knowledgeable on this issue feel free to chime in.

I'm not sure if it is that plasmas can't handle it, or because plasma doesn't need this option since they have a wide color gamut by their very nature.

For those who weren't aware, this weekend *******.com has a President's Day sale. They were selling the TH-50PX60U for $1489.88 + $149.25 shipping. They sold out around 1pm today -- no more are left.

I called and asked if the price was a mistake, and they said it was not. But they said they were sold out, and Panasonic was no longer accepting any more orders for the TH-50PX60U. He said they expected to receive the replacement TH-50PX75U towards the end of next month.

For those who weren't aware, this weekend *******.com has a President's Day sale. They were selling the TH-50PX60U for $1489.88 + $149.25 shipping. They sold out around 1pm today -- no more are left.

I called and asked if the price was a mistake, and they said it was not. But they said they were sold out, and Panasonic was no longer accepting any more orders for the TH-50PX60U. He said they expected to receive the replacement TH-50PX75U towards the end of next month.

Got to be a good sign that stores and web sites are running out of stock. Panny won't want to be without a model next to their competition for long, and if they're shipping in March msrps should be here soon.

Yesterday I wrote the PX77-Series does not have notable side speakers, and that the PX75-Series looks similar to the PX60-Series but in two-tone Black. These comments were base on a Panasonic CES video I watched prior posting. Due to the size of the video, I wasn't able to provide a more accurate description. The PX77U does have notable side speakers and the PX75U Does not look like the PX60U-Series.

In this more clear and brighter photo you can see the PX77U-Series {closest} with a more realistic detail. The PX75U-Series are the far way ones. Due to size limitations by the forum, I can only upload a small version of it.

This post (86) is the best we got on glare comparison. Tough to tell much because the flash or some other lighting seemed to knock out any glare on the first one. The better comparison seems to be the second and third tvs, with the second a 77u (note side speakers) and the third a 75u (speaker on bottom). There does seem to be less glare on the second tv, but it is hardly eliminated.

At first I was looking at the first tv compared to the second, which is like night and day difference for glare, but I think that is due to the flash.

Yes, I think you're right about that. I too at first assumed that the first TV in the photo was a 77U and that the second one and the rest were all not 77Us. But on second viewing I can see that both the first and second TVs have a thin sliver stripe along the outside edge of the bezels. If I remember correctly, the poster said that the 77Us had the silver stripe.

I didn't know where to post this, so I'll post it here:

Last year I "hinted" on AVS that Pioneer and Panasonic were "collaborating" with their plasma tech. Well it seems as if someone at Panasonic has accidently spilled the beans (I don't think this was suppose to be said publicly).

http://forbruker.no/digital/nyheter/tv/article1643458.ece?service=print

Relevant plasma quote translated per forum member "likvid" in the BD player forum:

"Panasonic hasn't either made any progress to fix the filter that gives a double image when you sit at the side of the display and watching.

The filter or the distance between the layers has narrowed down says Kitamura, but we will get rid of it eventually when Pioneer has fixed everything.

Kitamura tells us this is not a "major" problem, but he assures us he wish problem will get fixed soon."

Interesting

Sorry to spoil your story, D-nice, but the translation you got is wrong.

What it actually says is "The filter, or the distance between the layers has become smaller, tells Kitamura, but we still need a bit to get it totally removed, such as Pioneer has managed"

The same Mr. Kitamura (senior coordinator, Panasonic Japan) also says that internally there's been differing oppinions as to 1080p/24 support as well as 'extended picture adjustments' and he regrets to say that it won't be available until the 2008 models.

The article gives Norwegian MSRP's of the TH42PV700 (3100 US$) and TH42PV70 (2450 US$) but that's probably way above what the US prices will be.

The second has less glare than the third, but the third has less than the fourth, and the fourth than the fifth...

Given the angle, I don't really think you can draw any conclusions about glare from that picture. The sharper your angle to a piece of glass, the more glare you'll get from it, and because of simple perspective you're seeing each panel in the line at a sharper angle than the one to its left.

Just my opinion... Perry.

The second has less glare than the third, but the third has less than the fourth, and the fourth than the fifth...

Given the angle, I don't really think you can draw any conclusions about glare from that picture. The sharper your angle to a piece of glass, the more glare you'll get from it, and because of simple perspective you're seeing each panel in the line at a sharper angle than the one to its left.

Just my opinion... Perry.

Good point. Won't know squat until they are side-by-side.

There must be some noticeable difference that would make a non-audiophile buyer want the 77u or they wouldn't use it as the prime distinguishing feature in a model (side firing speakers means very little to most when they use their own surround system). It they can't justify a $400 or so difference in models there seems to be little reason to bother having a different model, so I'm guessing the glare will be noticeably less.

The 60u and 600u have $500 difference in msrp, so I bet there will be at least a few hundred difference between the 75 and 77. The 700 is a different animal. I'm guessing I won't find the anti-glare worth the extra money unless the street for $100 or less difference because I'd rather have a narrower cabinet.

If interested... there was an interesting comment in the old PZ600 thread on the release date of the 50" Panny Consumer 1080p (which I assume means the 50PZ700U and/or the 50PZ750U):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9797388&&#post9797388

Panny needs to improve their menu system. It takes forever to program labels on channels. It would also be nice to be able to program custom labels on inputs. The remote could use a bit of improvement too, like more intuitive button placement and backlit would be nice.

Just some info...American's ad had the 60u series as "closeout". A good sign for those of us patiently waiting for the 07's.

Does this mean that the new pannys won't be 1080p? (only the current 65 will be)

Sorry to spoil your story, D-nice, but the translation you got is wrong.

What it actually says is "The filter, or the distance between the layers has become smaller, tells Kitamura, but we still need a bit to get it totally removed, such as Pioneer has managed"

The same Mr. Kitamura (senior coordinator, Panasonic Japan) also says that internally there's been differing oppinions as to 1080p/24 support as well as 'extended picture adjustments' and he regrets to say that it won't be available until the 2008 models.

The article gives Norwegian MSRP's of the TH42PV700 (3100 US$) and TH42PV70 (2450 US$) but that's probably way above what the US prices will be.

Does this mean that the new pannys won't be 1080p? (only the current 65 will be)
Go to the very first post in this thread to see the list of the new Panasonic models. There will be 50" and 58" 1920x1080p resolution models released this summer. The Panasonic press release at CES did not provide much in the way of details on the new 768p and 1080p models. We should learn more soon.

I thought that was the case, but that recent comment gave me pause. I guess it will be 1080p, but not 1080p24.

Go to the very first post in this thread to see the list of the new Panasonic models. There will be 50" and 58" 1920x1080p resolution models released this summer. The Panasonic press release at CES did not provide much in the way of details on the new 768p and 1080p models. We should learn more soon.

Saw this over youtube.com

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kvF6xM4vrG4&mode=related&search=

New models seen in Europe ... the PV71 series. Both 42 as 37 inch !

Seen prices as [EDIT] euro for the 37 inch and [EDIT] euro for the 42 inch.

Only strange that this model (PV71) isn't mentioned earlier imho....

After calling a couple stores that are willing to give out msrps as soon as Panny releases them, I've had no luck. Some have the msrps for the 42" and 50" 75u but that's it (I'm looking for 58") and that may just be a number Panny gave them as a guide for pre-order pricing and the official msrp released by Panny may be different. Both places monitoring the same info expected the prices in 1-2 weeks. Not real helpful.

After calling a couple stores that are willing to give out msrps as soon as Panny releases them, I've had no luck. Some have the msrps for the 42" and 50" 75u but that's it (I'm looking for 58") and that may just be a number Panny gave them as a guide for pre-order pricing and the official msrp released by Panny may be different. Both places monitoring the same info expected the prices in 1-2 weeks. Not real helpful.what were the msrp's for the 42" and 50"?

what were the msrp's for the 42" and 50"?

$2700 and $2900, respectively. But the 42 msrp seems way high and was going below 2k, so I don't have much faith in those numbers. Two different people on the phone said they only use msrps provided by Panny and both admitted they leave the initial msrp up even after Panny drops it mid-cycle (to make their prices look lower), so they at least sound credible. The 50 msrp sounds more reasonable. If they put the 58" msrp $1100 higher at 4k I'll be happy, but I'm not holding my breath.

$2700 and $2900, respectively. But the 42 msrp seems way high and was going below 2k, so I don't have much faith in those numbers. Two different people on the phone said they only use msrps provided by Panny and both admitted they leave the initial msrp up even after Panny drops it mid-cycle (to make their prices look lower), so they at least sound credible. The 50 msrp sounds more reasonable. If they put the 58" msrp $1100 higher at 4k I'll be happy, but I'm not holding my breath.

There's an online retailer who's offering the 42 and 50-inch PX75-Series for pre-sale with those MSRP listed. The reseller claims to have them by April. Their actual selling prices are a little less than that. I doubt it, since Panasonic has not yet released and/or confirm a solid price list nothing is solid or effective. And these MSRPs are way higher than what most consumers are expecting to pay.

Repost...

Has anyone heard whether Panasonic improved the video processing in the 2007 models to correctly deinterlace 1080p24 content flagged as 1080i60? The 2006 Panasonic plasmas are unable to detect the 3/2 cadence and reconstruct the original 1080p image (before scaling to the panel's native resolution) on 1080i60 output from Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, as well as NBC, CBS, and HBO. As a result, up to 50% resolution is lost during movement on programs like CSI and Heroes.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/index.html

In contrast, the 2006 Pioneers do offer this capability.

There's an online retailer who's offering the 42 and 50-inch PX75-Series for pre-sale with those MSRP listed. The reseller claims to have them by April. Their actual selling prices are a little less than that. I doubt it, since Panasonic has not yet released and/or confirm a solid price list nothing is solid or effective. And these MSRPs are way higher than what most consumers are expecting to pay.

I agree with all of that. I would guess that at most they got unofficial word from Panasonic about where the msrps were likely to be in a couple weeks and based their pre-order price on that. I don't see anything odd about having msrps above what most are willing to pay, however, since nobody is likely to pay full msrp anyway.

Repost...

Has anyone heard whether Panasonic improved the video processing in the 2007 models to correctly deinterlace 1080p24 content flagged as 1080i60? The 2006 Panasonic plasmas are unable to detect the 3/2 cadence and reconstruct the original 1080p image (before scaling to the panel's native resolution) on 1080i60 output from Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, as well as NBC, CBS, and HBO. As a result, up to 50% resolution is lost during movement on programs like CSI and Heroes.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/index.html

In contrast, the 2006 Pioneers do offer this capability.

That's a good question. I'm a bit confused on the 3/2 test and how various testers are doing that test. In the cnet review of the 600u (2006 Panny) they said that it passed this test when used on standard def at least:

"Next we checked out the Panasonic's ability to deal with standard-definition sources, and it turned in a commendable performance according to the HQV test DVD. It smoothed out jagged edges in diagonal lines well; engaged 2:3 pull-down without a hitch; and delivered all of the detail of the disc."

Cnet's definition of 2:3 pulldown sounds the same as the 3/2 test referred to in the hometheatermag article:

"2:3 pull-down detection
Also (and less accurately) called 3:2 pull-down; digital technology developed by Faroudja to accurately convert and display content originally on celluloid film, which runs at 24 frames per second (fps) compared to the 30fps rate of television. It is found in many DVD players and DTVs."

So does this mean the 2006 Panny did fine on the 2:3 pull-down for 480i sources but failed to do it on 1080i sources? Is this possible, or is there a conflict between the reviews, perhaps caused by the difference in the test material? If it is true that it passes for 480i but not 1080i, is there some reason why the 2:3 pull-down technology is much more difficult to apply to 1080i sources? Seems like once you have that code written it wouldn't be that big of a deal to apply it to other interlaced sources.

From the cryptic marketing material I have seen on the 2007 lineup, there is no mention of specific enhancements to the processing that relate to this issue. Some of those that scour the japan panny site and tvs they put on that market before the u.s. may know more.

So does this mean the 2006 Panny did fine on the 2:3 pull-down for 480i sources but failed to do it on 1080i sources?Yes. The tests above were for 1080i sources. Correct film detection and deinterlace of 1080i signals is significantly more processor intensive than doing the same for 480i signals. Virtually all displays produced in the past several years can detect the film cadence on 480i signals to reconstruct a 480p image, but only a small percentage can do the same for high-definition 1080i signals.

Next month, we'll finally see the release of the HDTV version of the HQV test disk to make it much easier for consumers to test for this capability on their own. Silicon Optix already has the beta version of this disk available to manufacturers and the press, so hopefully someone at Panasonic will test it with their display before they ship.

Does anyone know if the new generation of Pannys has 1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI? I'm considering getting the 58" 108p model and hooking it up to an outboard scaler.

-Eric

Yes. The tests above were for 1080i sources. Correct film detection and deinterlace of 1080i signals is significantly more processor intensive than doing the same for 480i signals. Virtually all displays produced in the past several years can detect the film cadence on 480i signals to reconstruct a 480p image, but only a small percentage can do the same for high-definition 1080i signals.

Next month, we'll finally see the release of the HDTV version of the HQV test disk to make it much easier for consumers to test for this capability on their own. Silicon Optix already has the beta version of this disk available to manufacturers and the press, so hopefully someone at Panasonic will test it with their display before they ship.

More load on the processor certainly makes sense with all the extra data, but if others like Pioneer could do it a year ago you'd think that wouldn't be a major stumbling block for the '07 models. This is a link to the Panny site that is the most specific regarding features of the new sets, but it appears to be limited to the 1080p line. Still no mention of 1080i/24 issue or marketing mumbo jumbo that would correllate to that improvement. Not a good sign.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/features/index.html

Does anyone know if the new generation of Pannys has 1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI? I'm considering getting the 58" 1080p model and hooking it up to an outboard scaler.

-Eric

I would really like to know this as well.

The commercial PF9 has it, so I hope they don't leave it out for the consumer version.

I would really like to know this as well.

The commercial PF9 has it, so I hope they don't leave it out for the consumer version.

From what I understand the commercial version does 1:1 through DVI. I don't know if it does it through HDMI. I suppose you could use a HDMI/DVI adapter though.

-Eric

Has anyone confirmed if either one of the 42" plasmas will be 1366x768p?
Any links to info.?

Does anyone know if the new generation of Pannys has 1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI? I'm considering getting the 58" 108p model and hooking it up to an outboard scaler.

-Eric

The 65" 1080p consumer model does do 1:1 though HDMI, so it is likely (although not certain) that the new 58" and 50" 1080p consumer models will as well. I suspect that the non-1080p consumer models will continue to only do 1:1 through VGA (or not do 1:1 at all, for models that don't include a VGA port).

I agree with all of that. I would guess that at most they got unofficial word from Panasonic about where the msrps were likely to be in a couple weeks and based their pre-order price on that. I don't see anything odd about having msrps above what most are willing to pay, however, since nobody is likely to pay full msrp anyway.


I meant to write: "These MSRP are higher that what consumer were expecting."

I know no one really pays MSRP, unless they are "Crushfield" suckers.

From what I understand the commercial version does 1:1 through DVI. I don't know if it does it through HDMI. I suppose you could use a HDMI/DVI adapter though.

-Eric

Correct - the 1080p commercial models (both 65" and 50") do 1:1 through DVI. HDMI unfortunately maxes out at 1080i for these models.

Has anyone confirmed if either one of the 42" plasmas will be 1366x768p?
Any links to info.?


Neither one. They'll both be 1024 x 768.

DDG1914, where's your info from? I know CNET's article says that, but is it corroborated anywhere else? Seems Panasonic's delivering 1366x768 42" panels in China...

Well, the CNET article and almost everything else I've seen on them on other sites has just been reworkings of the Panasonic press release. I haven't seen corroboration on that point from anyone who has seen them "in the wild", so to speak. One of the members of this forum (Lelekid, I think) saw them at CES and posted pics and info on them. I don't think he mentioned anything about resolution. They might be 1366x768.

Thanks... guess we'll wait and see.

I read somewhere, that there will be no news until CeBit (15.3.). Panasonic is holding them back and wants to present all new models and specs at CeBit.

I read somewhere, that there will be no news until CeBit (15.3.). Panasonic is holding them back and wants to present all new models and specs at CeBit.

Are we to interpret that as March 15?

I'll go ahead and answer for Calypso...

Yes, CeBIT starts March 15...

I can't post a link until I reach five posts, but more info can be found at cebit.de

Promo from the global site for the 7xx

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/popup/full_hd/index.html

Promo from the global site for the 7xx

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/viera/popup/full_hd/index.html

Sweet! Thanks

I read somewhere, that there will be no news until CeBit (15.3.). Panasonic is holding them back and wants to present all new models and specs at CeBit.

dirtyrottenbastards

This is my first post on this forum. I want a new television. Partly I wish that i had never read so many posts on this forum. I now have less idea which television to purchase prior to my internet "education" on hdtv displays. I have purchased 2 lcd sets and taken them back. 1st set was a samsung 4095 and it had horrible sd reception. The next set for the bedroom and was a sharp 37" 720p set. Took that one back because my wife thought it was too big for the bedroom. In defense of the sharp, it had great sd reception and a good hd picture. My new plan was to purchase a 50" Panasonic plasma for the family room and enjoy it as more of a theater television and purchase some smaller lcd's later for other rooms. Through viewing plasma tv's vs. lcd's I have decided that I prefer plasma. Please if possible answer a few questions.

1. Will the first new Panasonic sets be 1080p? If so will these be priced as an elite line similar to Pioneer Elite? My max budget will be around 3000.00.

2. Is it realistic to expect these new Panasonics to be better than current gen Pioneer?

3. What are the rumored major improvements to the new gen Panasonic?

4. Are Pioneer and Panasonic sharing the same new panels and new technology?

5. Any idea on the release date of the new 50" model?

Thank you,
Henry

1. Will the first new Panasonic sets be 1080p? No. The models coming in April are 768p. The 1080p models are coming in ~July.

If so will these be priced as an elite line similar to Pioneer Elite? My max budget will be around 3000.00.The 2007 50" TH-50PX75U (768p) is rumored to carry a MSRP of $2500.

Keep in mind that 1080p resolution doesn't matter if you are watching a 50" from 10' or more. At 10' from a 50" display, human eyes can only resolve 720p. You would need a viewing distance of 8' or less -- or a larger model -- to see any noticeable benefit from 1080p.

2. Is it realistic to expect these new Panasonics to be better than current gen Pioneer?Panasonic has said the 1080p models have improved video processing. I'm still not clear on whether the 768p Panasonics will also get improved video processing circuitry, or just new firmware for the old circuitry, but if they do, it should give them more comparable performance to the Pioneer.

What are the rumored major improvements to the new gen Panasonic?On the 768p model? The known differences are listed in the first post of this thread. Aside from the black bezel and HDMI 1.3 (which doesn't have any impact on the picture), Panasonic hasn't said much.

5. Any idea on the release date of the new 50" model?About six weeks.

Personally I think that the _50 inch_ will MSRP at about $2500.

That's what bfdtv said. The $2500 figure he threw out was for the 50".

That's what bfdtv said. The $2500 figure he threw out was for the 50".

Heh, you are correct. My apologies. I am not sure how I read that as 42".

Sorry if this is a repost:

TH-50PX75U pricing:
http://www.monitoroutlet.com/M11124.html

Sorry if this is a repost:

TH-50PX75U pricing:
http://www.monitoroutlet.com/M11124.html
I would ignore these discount no-name web retailers when it comes to the MSRP. I have observed for years that they often inflate the MSRP on their website to make their "discount" price look better. The current US MSRP for the TH-50PX60U is $2799. But the TH-50PX60U has been aggressively discounted to well less than that at the big B&M chains since mid to early January. In the past several years, the pattern has been to drop the MSRP $300 to $500 for each new model year and then again for the August/September price cut. Last fall, there was additional rounds of price drops as the price war for flat panel market share went full tilt. We will have to wait and see what the MSRP will be for the new 768p PX75 & PX77 and the 1080p PZ700 models. But I don't expect a change in the pattern from the past several years this year. Just ignore those web sites and wait for more reliable sources such as long standing avsforum members who have access to the MSRP or better yet, Panasonic's press release & web site.

I would ignore these discount no-name web retailers when it comes to the MSRP. I have observed for years that they often inflate the MSRP on their website to make their "discount" price look better. The current US MSRP for the TH-50PX60U is $2799. But the TH-50PX60U has been aggressively discounted to well less than that at the big B&M chains since mid to early January. In the past several years, the pattern has been to drop the MSRP $300 to $500 for each new model year and then again for the August/September price cut. Last fall, there was additional rounds of price drops as the price war for flat panel market share went full tilt. We will have to wait and see what the MSRP will be for the new 768p PX75 & PX77 and the 1080p PZ700 models. But I don't expect a change in the pattern from the past several years this year. Just ignore those web sites and wait for more reliable sources such as long standing avsforum members who have access to the MSRP or better yet, Panasonic's press release & web site.

+1

Great post.

Regarding those 1080p models you mention - I think that is where the real big questions lie. We can probably guess the PX75 and PX77 within a couple hundred bucks or so. No big deal. But the PX700 and PX750 are much tougher to nail down because there is no precedent for them. The only data point we have right now is the 50" PF commercial model but I think its $5995 MSRP is way too high for a consumer model that is supposed to compete with 52" 1080p LCD's with MSRPs currently around $5k. I suspect the Panasonic MSRP for the 50PX700 will need to land somewhere in the mid $4k range.

I would ignore these discount no-name web retailers when it comes to the MSRP. I have observed for years that they often inflate the MSRP on their website to make their "discount" price look better. The current US MSRP for the TH-50PX60U is $2799. But the TH-50PX60U has been aggressively discounted to well less than that at the big B&M chains since mid to early January. In the past several years, the pattern has been to drop the MSRP $300 to $500 for each new model year and then again for the August/September price cut. Last fall, there was additional rounds of price drops as the price war for flat panel market share went full tilt. We will have to wait and see what the MSRP will be for the new 768p PX75 & PX77 and the 1080p PZ700 models. But I don't expect a change in the pattern from the past several years this year. Just ignore those web sites and wait for more reliable sources such as long standing avsforum members who have access to the MSRP or better yet, Panasonic's press release & web site.

These questions probably belong in that other thread about "buying now or waiting for 2007 Panasonic", but I'll go ahead and ask here. That thread has varying answers and advice...

So, we should expect the MSRP of the PX75 to be about $2400-2500 when they debut in April. Should we also expect the big chains to offer them at about $2000 or so immediately, or will that take some time? Have the new models typically started out at full MSRP at the big chains in the past? If so, how long until the cuts begin?

The reason I ask is that I'm keeping an eye on the price of the 60U while waiting for the debut of the 75. I'm not sure I want to give $1600-1700 for a 60u if I can get a new 75 for about that same amount a short time (few weeks?) later.

I know what you mean. I'm keeping an eye on the online prices of the 42" 600U, hoping that they don't go up in price or the unit is unavailable if the 77U proves to be out of my price range when they finally come out.

I see some reason to take heart, though. I've seen preorder prices for 2007 Hitachi and Samsung models on a couple of other websites, and they are not that far above what their 2006 counteparts are selling for now- even in this buyer's market. Panasonic has to compete, so I think (hope) their street prices will be in line with Hitachi's and Samsung. I also hope I can hold out til then, because the big ol' Hitachi CRT projector I've had for more than 10 years is on its last legs.

+1

Great post.

Regarding those 1080p models you mention - I think that is where the real big questions lie. We can probably guess the PX75 and PX77 within a couple hundred bucks or so. No big deal. But the PX700 and PX750 are much tougher to nail down because there is no precedent for them. The only data point we have right now is the 50" PF commercial model but I think its $5995 MSRP is way too high for a consumer model that is supposed to compete with 52" 1080p LCD's with MSRPs currently around $5k. I suspect the Panasonic MSRP for the 50PX700 will need to land somewhere in the mid $4k range.
Thanks for the kind words. :cool:

But I believe you are too pessimistic on the MSRP for the 50" 1080p PZ700 model. Look at the list prices for the 52" 1080p Sharp LCD, and the 46" 1080p Sonys and Samsungs. The MSRP for the 1080p 52" Sharp LCD52D62U is already under $4K with a list of $3799 shown for a large B&M chain. Panasonic will have to offer their 50" 1080p PZ700 at a competitive price to the same size range 1080p LCDs from Sharp & Samsung and Sony XBRs if they expect to sell at any volume.

OTOH, it may depend on whether Panasonic will be able to make that many 1080p panels in the 50" and 58" size range this year. If production capacity is limited and they expect to sell all the 1080p panels they can make, then they might aim for a higher price figuring they will sell them to the video phile market anyway. I have no idea what their 1080p production capacity will be by the time the PZ700s hit the market. My guess is that Panasonic will be able to crank out the panels as they have been pouring a LOT of money into building new plants.

Summer is a long way off, but I would be surprised if the the MSRP for the 50PZ700 were to come in above the mid $3k range and likely even lower than that.

So, we should expect the MSRP of the PX75 to be about $2400-2500 when they debut in April. Should we also expect the big chains to offer them at about $2000 or so immediately, or will that take some time? Have the new models typically started out at full MSRP at the big chains in the past? If so, how long until the cuts begin?

The reason I ask is that I'm keeping an eye on the price of the 60U while waiting for the debut of the 75. I'm not sure I want to give $1600-1700 for a 60u if I can get a new 75 for about that same amount a short time (few weeks?) later.
My personal fearless forecast is a MSRP of $2299 ($500 drop) for the 768p 50PX75U and $1499 ($300 drop) for the 42PX75U, but I would not be surprised to see a lower MSRP for the 50". The big chain will probably offer their normal holiday weekend sales deals as the market is extremely competitive. But big discounts? Just have to wait and see. We don't want to get too sidetracked on the sales prices because that is beyond what this forum is for.

The biggest question I have about the new models are about the details of any new features and upgraded inputs they may have. On this, we will have to wait as well.

Summer is a long way off, but I would be surprised if the the MSRP for the 50PZ700 were to come in above the mid $3k range and likely even lower than that.

Wow, you think that low, eh? That would be outstanding.

I do see your point on the 52" D62. But the newer 52" D92 still carries a $5299 MSRP. And the MSRP for the 52" Sony XBR3 is also $5299 (the XBR2 MSRP is a little lower - $4999) while the 52" Samsung comes in at $4799. These prices will fall some by summer, but I would be surprised to see them come down below $4k.

Keep in mind that 1080p resolution doesn't matter if you are watching a 50" from 10' or more. At 10' from a 50" display, human eyes can only resolve 720p. You would need a viewing distance of 8' or less -- or a larger model -- to see any noticeable benefit from 1080p.NOT!


ron

NOT!


ron

No, he is correct R11. In fact, I honestly doubt one could see the difference between 1080i and 1080p from more than 7-8 feet away (on a 50 inch plasma or LCD).

As long as people are speculating, any idea on the two 58" model msrps? My guess is production may be a bit of an issue on these, as they didn't offer a 77u version, just 75u and 700. The only 1080p that big with a "low" price will be a Philips 63" at $5500 msrp in June. Not sure if Panny will care to match that, however. I'm more interested in the 75u. If 50" is $2500 my guess is $4200. That's about $600 less than 60u msrp now, so maybe that is too agressive. Current street prices are all over the map, but if you exclude sketchy internet deliveries $4k is about right.

No, he is correct R11. In fact, I honestly doubt one could see the difference between 1080i and 1080p from more than 7-8 feet away (on a 50 inch plasma or LCD).No he is wrong Nuance. First of all, I think you really probably meant the difference between 720 and 1080, because that is what the question was. Second, many people can see SDE on a 720p PDP at more than 8'. The only way to eliminate that for those people is to go to a higher resolution panel. Period. You may not have that level of visual acuity but others like myself do.


ron

You can see SDE on a modern 50" 768P PDP over 8' away??? You sure about that? I can see hints of SDE on bright surfaces about 4-5' away on my Vizio P50HDM, and I have better than 20/20 vision.

Maybe you can see a little more aliasing at 8', but it's physically impossible for the human eye to resolve the black space inbetween the pixels at that distance, so it doesn't really matter how good your eyesight is.

No he is wrong Nuance. First of all, I think you really probably meant the difference between 720 and 1080, because that is what the question was. Second, many people can see SDE on a 720p PDP at more than 8'. The only way to eliminate that for those people is to go to a higher resolution panel. Period. You may not have that level of visual acuity but others like myself do. Perhaps you have 20/10 vision, but when making recommendations on this forum, I think you've got to assume the individual has 20/20 vision. That defines a relatively small range of resolution resolvable from a given distance.

At 10', the screen size at which the average person resolves 1280x720 is approximately 50". At 10', the screen size at which the average person resolves full 1920x1080 is approximately 75". Anything beyond 50" would show some benefit of 1080p.

The best argument for 1080P on a 50 inch screen is the processing scaling is likely to be better and produce more discernable detail even at that distance.

- Rich

The best argument for 1080P on a 50 inch screen is the processing scaling is likely to be better and produce more discernable detail even at that distance.I do agree that given two displays (one 720p, the other 1080p) with equal video processing, a 1080p panel with 1:1 pixel mapping does have the advantage. However, given the vast number of 1080p panels on the market that lack quality video processing, let alone 1:1 pixel mapping, I don't think it is wise to make generalizations of this sort. I'm sure you understand this, but many of our newer members (and lurkers) do not.

Newer members may get the impression that deinterlace [to 1080p] is easy and downscaling is hard, when the reverse is true.

Deinterlace of 1080i signals is not easy. Sadly, most displays do not have quality deinterlace -- of the displays tested by Home Theater Magazine (http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/index.html) (more results here (http://hdguru.com/?p=17)), only seven of the 61 tested would offer the same performance with a 1080i input as they do with a 1080p input. The vast majority of the tested 1080p displays were not able to detect 1080p24 content flagged as 1080i60, nor were they able to deliver anywhere near 1920x1080 resolution for 1080i60 video with movement.

Once a set with proper deinterlace has reconstructed the original 1080p24 film source from the 1080i60 signal through a process known as inverse telecine, or interpolated from adjacent fields to create a 1080p60 signal from 1080i60 video (sports, live video), scaling to another resolution is a piece of cake. It's like first and goal on the one-yard line. No manufacturer is going to get that far and fumble. I discussed this more in another post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=810551) earlier today.

Furthermore, only a minority of 1080p flat panels actually offer an unscaled picture (with 1:1 pixel mapping) for 1080i and 1080p sources. The vast majority upscale the signal to create overscan. They upscale the 1080i or 1080p image to a resolution that exceeds the panel's 1080p, which has the effect of hiding picture area around each edge (overscan).

Just wanted to state that the Panasonic TH-50PX75U is in Best Buy's computers now. They will be in the 16th of March if you order one. Their regular price is 2499.99. Not to bad. There is also quite a lot of room for them to work.

Is this TV a good TV? I have had my heart set on the Pio 5071 for a while, but I can get this one for almost $800 dollars less.

What do you guys think?

Just wanted to state that the Panasonic TH-50PX75U is in Best Buy's computers now. They will be in the 16th of March if you order one. Their regular price is 2499.99. Not to bad. There is also quite a lot of room for them to work.

Is this TV a good TV? I have had my heart set on the Pio 5071 for a while, but I can get this one for almost $800 dollars less. Did BB have the 58" model in their system yet?

Until members spend some time with the new 75U series, we don't know how they will compare to the 2006 line. I'm anxious to see if the new "software" in the 2007 Panasonics can correctly deinterlace movies (inverse telecine) broadcast in 1080i format -- something the 2006 models could not do.

The Pioneer 5070 is available for about the same price you quoted from the forum sponsors, and I'm sure they'll have the Panasonic for significantly less than that within a few months.

Did BB have the 58" model in their system yet?

Until members spend some time with the new 75U series, we don't know how it will compare to the 2006 version. I'm anxious to see if the new "software" for the video processor in the 2007 Panasonics can correctly deinterlace film signals (inverse telecine) broadcast in 1080i format -- something the 2006 models could not do.

The Pioneer is available for about the same price you quoted from the forum sponsors, and I'm sure they'll have the Panasonic for significantly less than that within a few months.


No, they didn't have the 58" in their system yet. I can get the Panny for [EDIT] and Pioneer for like [EDIT] or something like that. I do think the Pioneer may be a little better but that's a big price difference. Plus, I could order the Panny now, but will still need to convince the wife for the Pioneer, and who knows how long that will take :)

Just wanted to state that the Panasonic TH-50PX75U is in Best Buy's computers now. They will be in the 16th of March if you order one. Their regular price is 2499.99. Not to bad. There is also quite a lot of room for them to work.

Is this TV a good TV? I have had my heart set on the Pio 5071 for a while, but I can get this one for almost $800 dollars less.

What do you guys think?

Wow, I can't wait to see the prices on the 42" and 50" next fall, which is when I plan on purchasing a TV.

I had been planning to go with the 42"(8 ft viewing distance), but if the price of 50" is lower than than the 60U, I may go with a bigger screen.

The 10th PZ7 series seems to be similar to the PZ full HD series that was launched only in Japan except for the full black design and few processing enhancements.
I can boldly comment that the PZ series blows the Pio 7th gen out of the water in terms of black level and sharpness.

No, they didn't have the 58" in their system yet. I can get the Panny for 1750 and Pioneer for like 2490 or something like that. I do think the Pioneer may be a little better but that's a big price difference. Plus, I could order the Panny now, but will still need to convince the wife for the Pioneer, and who knows how long that will take :)

Any idea on a release date for the 42" model, and initial MSRP? I'm debating whether to score a deal on an '06 or wait for the '07

th-42px75u ($1699) and th-50px75u ($2499) are available for preorder at BB, just so everyone can get excited about them, they should be available to pick up or on display some time in mid-March

th-42px75u ($1699) and th-50px75u ($2499) are available for preorder at BB, just so everyone can get excited about them, they should be available to pick up or on display some time in mid-March

^ what he said. They can be ordered now and will be in on the 16th of March.

Any idea on a release date for the 42" model, and initial MSRP? I'm debating whether to score a deal on an '06 or wait for the '07


If you're interested in the 42" 75U model, I think it may be better to get a deal on the 2006 60U. If this article is accurate http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2007/02/19/Panasonic-Milan-Seminar-February-2007/p1, and it says what I think it does, the only thing you would get with a 75U would be an all black case. From what I can tell from that article and info on the Panasonic global site, only the 2007 1920x1080 models have any picture processing improvements. So, what this seems (and I emphasize seems) to mean is:

PX75U improvement over PX60U: all black case
PX77U improvement over PX600U: all black case and anti-glare screen treatment

Although the article (trustedreviews.com) is interesting, I don't think I'd trust it for accurate information. Quotes like this: "the V-Real II can deal with the full bandwidth of a 1080p signal input without having to convert from an interlaced image to a progressive one" and this: "The step-up models will also feature three HDMI slots – two at the back and one at the rear" make me doubt that the author knows much about the subject.

I'm in the same boat. I was about to pull the trigger on two 5070 TVs but now I'm wondering if I should wait on the 50PX75U.

certainly not keeping up with the past few years price droppings but considering that is not as easy at the lower levels it still seems reasonable if that is the 50" msrp. it still follows the trend of lower msrp for new year model and leaves room for lowering the msrp later in the year also. and should get the street pricing under $2k easy.

and hopefully the larger reductions will be in the 58-65 range and the new 1080p models coming out.

Yes, I do find the supposed MSRP's for the new PX75Us on the high side. But I suspect the BB MSRPs are placeholder prices; a little lower to look ok, but not so low as to interfere with sales of the current PX60s. In the past, when they had prolonged sales prices of the Panasonic's, the replacement models came out at not far above that sales price. IIRC, last year, Panasonic has a previously announced MSRP of X $, but by the time the panels actually shipped, the MSRP dropped another $200 or so.

We will have to wait until the new models are posted to Panasonic's website to find out for sure what the MSRP will be. Also, keep checking Panasonic's website to see if the spec sheets or, better yet, the manuals have been posted so we can answer the many open questions on the technical details.

The price trajectory of plasma displays in still downward sloping. I am sure the street price of the 75's will be substantially lower than the 'current msrp'. You might have to pay msrp if you want an '07 set on the first day they are released, but they will decrease rapidly. They cannot publish a lower price today while they are still trying to burn off the remaining '06 600/60/6U stock.

If you're interested in the 42" 75U model, I think it may be better to get a deal on the 2006 60U. If this article is accurate http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2007/02/19/Panasonic-Milan-Seminar-February-2007/p1, and it says what I think it does, the only thing you would get with a 75U would be an all black case. From what I can tell from that article and info on the Panasonic global site, only the 2007 1920x1080 models have any picture processing improvements. So, what this seems (and I emphasize seems) to mean is:

PX75U improvement over PX60U: all black case
PX77U improvement over PX600U: all black case and anti-glare screen treatment

I would not believe this. I see no value in waiting a whole year to change a bezel color. The numbers in the model name do not make sense with that theory either.

Do the PX75U and PX77U use the same PDP as the 9UK or is the PDP in 75/77 new?

I just ordered a TH-50PH9UK but might wait until if there is going to be a new professional model released soon.

Thanks.

Do the PX75U and PX77U use the same PDP as the 9UK or is the PDP in 75/77 new?

I just ordered a TH-50PH9UK but might wait until if there is going to be a new professional model released soon.

Thanks.

Its been speculated that the 10th gen consumer has the same glass as the 9th with new processor software. The 10th gen industrial may debut new glass but it is a while off; usually introduced towards the end of the year.

I do agree that given two displays (one 720p, the other 1080p) with equal video processing, a 1080p panel with 1:1 pixel mapping does have the advantage. However, given the vast number of 1080p panels on the market that lack quality video processing, let alone 1:1 pixel mapping, I don't think it is wise to make generalizations of this sort. I'm sure you understand this, but many of our newer members (and lurkers) do not.

Newer members may get the impression that deinterlace [to 1080p] is easy and downscaling is hard, when the reverse is true.

Deinterlace of 1080i signals is not easy. Sadly, most displays do not have quality deinterlace only seven of the 61 tested would offer the same performance with a 1080i input as they do with a 1080p input. The vast majority of the tested 1080p displays were not able to detect 1080p24 content flagged as 1080i60, nor were they able to deliver anywhere near 1920x1080 resolution for 1080i60 video with movement.

Once a set with proper deinterlace has reconstructed the original 1080p24 film source from the 1080i60 signal through a process known as inverse telecine, or interpolated from adjacent fields to create a 1080p60 signal from 1080i60 video (sports, live video), scaling to another resolution is a piece of cake. It's like first and goal on the one-yard line. No manufacturer is going to get that far and fumble. I discussed this more in earlier today.

Furthermore, only a minority of 1080p flat panels actually offer an unscaled picture (with 1:1 pixel mapping) for 1080i and 1080p sources. The vast majority upscale the signal to create overscan. They upscale the 1080i or 1080p image to a resolution that exceeds the panel's 1080p, which has the effect of hiding picture area around each edge (overscan).

Very interesting. Is there any indication what the quality of the video processor in the new 1080p Panasonic 50" plasma will be?

I'm kinda curious. I couldn't find the info in the thread, but does anyone know the complete input list for the TH-50PX75U?

Perhaps you have 20/10 vision, but when making recommendations on this forum, I think you've got to assume the individual has 20/20 vision. That defines a relatively small range of resolution resolvable from a given distance.

At 10', the screen size at which the average person resolves 1280x720 is approximately 50". At 10', the screen size at which the average person resolves full 1920x1080 is approximately 75". Anything beyond 50" would show some benefit of 1080p.

Bingo. And that is what I was saying, but R11 obviously didn't understand. So sorry R11, but I was correct and so was he, at least when speaking of a person with the average 20/20 vision (not some hawk-eye vision that you may have). Do your research and you will see that many magazine reviewers and "professionals" agree with us, and that is based on extensive testing.

You can see SDE on a modern 50" 768P PDP over 8' away??? You sure about that? I can see hints of SDE on bright surfaces about 4-5' away on my Vizio P50HDM, and I have better than 20/20 vision.

Maybe you can see a little more aliasing at 8', but it's physically impossible for the human eye to resolve the black space inbetween the pixels at that distance, so it doesn't really matter how good your eyesight is.

Maybe he is superman? :p

Although the article (trustedreviews.com) is interesting, I don't think I'd trust it for accurate information. Quotes like this: "the V-Real II can deal with the full bandwidth of a 1080p signal input without having to convert from an interlaced image to a progressive one" and this: "The step-up models will also feature three HDMI slots – two at the back and one at the rear" make me doubt that the author knows much about the subject.

Well it IS an interesting article and is worth the read and pics but I have to question some of the statements/editing myself
e.g.
" Fujita announced that Panasonic would be building its fifth plasma production plant in 2009 demanding a 280 yen investment, which will produce one million panels per month. Can I have one please"
I don't know but do you really want a plasma built in a 280 yen factory? what is that some guys garage?

No he is wrong Nuance. First of all, I think you really probably meant the difference between 720 and 1080, because that is what the question was. Second, many people can see SDE on a 720p PDP at more than 8'. The only way to eliminate that for those people is to go to a higher resolution panel. Period. You may not have that level of visual acuity but others like myself do.


ron

Many people force their televisions to output 1080i rather than 720p. Either way, I stick to what I said. Whether 720p or 1080i, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between that or 1080p on a 50" screen at 10' away. If you can, you have uncanny vision which is not typical in the majority of human beings.

Very interesting. Is there any indication what the quality of the video processor in the new 1080p Panasonic 50" plasma will be?Not that I have seen.

I've read this thread and different people have said different things. Some say the 2007 models use the older processor, but with new firmware to improve performance. Others say the 768 models use the older processor with new firmware, while the 1080p models have a completely new processor.

The most notable issue with the video processing in the 2006 models from Panasonic was their inability to perform inverse telecine on content acquired in 1080p24 but flagged as 1080i60 for broadcast. Because of this, the Panasonics couldn't produce as sharp or as detailed a picture on programs like CSI on CBS, Heroes on NBC, or The Sopranos on HBO when compared to the Pioneer panels. Nor could they produce as sharp or as detailed a picture from a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player set to output 1080i.

[If you didn't output a native 1080i signal to the panel, or didn't use the built-in QAM tuners, but rather configured your HD set-top box and Blu-ray player to convert all output to 720p, then you wouldn't see the same differences.]

[QUOTE=bfdtv]

I've read this thread and different people have said different things. Some say the 2007 models use the older processor, but with new firmware to improve performance. Others say the 768 models use the older processor with new firmware, while the 1080p models have a completely new processor.

QUOTE]

Well I guess we will have to wait till the end of March to find out but I think it is a reasonable expectation to see the 768p line of glass use the same old processor with new firmware/programming - which begs the question if the firmware will be available as an upgrde for existing Pannys. Black levels do sound improved which is a good reason to wait and see instead of getting a clearanced one now.

[QUOTE=bfdtv]

I've read this thread and different people have said different things. Some say the 2007 models use the older processor, but with new firmware to improve performance. Others say the 768 models use the older processor with new firmware, while the 1080p models have a completely new processor.

QUOTE]

but I think it is a reasonable expectation to see the 768p line of glass use the same old processor with new firmware/programming

I don't have any more info than you do, but I would really like to know what line of reasoning would get Panasonic to this point. You are basically saying that nothing has changed in the last year except for the code that drives the processor. That better be some darn good code. The competition is just too stiff for that sort of stuff.

Again, I am not saying this is not the case, but I do believe that Panasonic has alot to lose if some measurable improvements aren't made.

If you're interested in the 42" 75U model, I think it may be better to get a deal on the 2006 60U. If this article is accurate http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2007/02/19/Panasonic-Milan-Seminar-February-2007/p1, and it says what I think it does, the only thing you would get with a 75U would be an all black case. From what I can tell from that article and info on the Panasonic global site, only the 2007 1920x1080 models have any picture processing improvements. So, what this seems (and I emphasize seems) to mean is:

PX75U improvement over PX60U: all black case
PX77U improvement over PX600U: all black case and anti-glare screen treatment

This is not a personal attack on you, who I thank for adding something from Panny when they've given us nothing, but that is one worthless article. Aside from a couple pictures all of the information is already available on the Panny corporate web site linked to in this thread a few times. Some of the language in the article was right off that web site. The author also seems to be an English-as-a-third-language type, but that wouldn't bother me if there was one useful piece of info in there.

I wouldn't read anything into that article. I'm personally assuming any processor/firmward/glass improvements from 60/600 to 75 will be minimal, or Panny wouldn't put out a press release at CES that touts only the additional 1080p models and when it gets down to the 75 only lists "new cosmetic" as the distinguishing characteristic compared to the new models. Unless the Panny engineers have been working overtime since Jan. 1 on something like perfecting the inverse telecine thing, I'm expecting squat.

Minimal improvements on these models does make some sense for Panny. First, Panny wants to maintain or increase market share by refusing to cede the mid-lower end of the market and the only way to do that is to keep costs down on the 75 so they can charge within a couple hundred bucks of the compeition, which is at about $1800 at B&M store where most of these are sold. If they are starting at 2500 preorder then they'll be able to do that within a month or two of release. Second, everything is inevitably headed to 1080p at all screen sizes, and there may not even be models with this resolution in another product cycle or two. Why put a lot of engineering and money into a 720p technology that will probably be gone forever relatively soon, if you can keep market share better by keeping prices down. Who is going to beat them in quality at $2k even if they do nothing with the processor this year? Got to admit that both are good reasons not to do much on the processor side for the base models, although they'll lose some sales to higher end buyers that can't afford a 1080p.

No problem, I don't take it as a personal attack at all. I think the article is a bit sketchy, too. That's why I threw in some caveats. Besides, I was trying to make the same point as you. I also assume that Panasonic didn't put a lot of tech inprovements in the non- 1080p models. And, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that, for the reasons you outline so well. I was just suggesting to the poster I replied to that if he wanted a plasma right now, he could get a PX60/600 model at a real nice price without having to wait for the 75/77 models to drop in price, and probably wouldn't have to worry too much about missing the boat on huge improvements the 75/77 models might have.

TWhy put a lot of engineering and money into a 720p technology that will probably be gone forever relatively soon, if you can keep market share better by keeping prices down.

Relatively soon? We have many years of 720 to enjoy.

Thanks for the kind words. :cool:

But I believe you are too pessimistic on the MSRP for the 50" 1080p PZ700 model. Look at the list prices for the 52" 1080p Sharp LCD, and the 46" 1080p Sonys and Samsungs. The MSRP for the 1080p 52" Sharp LCD52D62U is already under $4K with a list of $3799 shown for a large B&M chain. Panasonic will have to offer their 50" 1080p PZ700 at a competitive price to the same size range 1080p LCDs from Sharp & Samsung and Sony XBRs if they expect to sell at any volume.

OTOH, it may depend on whether Panasonic will be able to make that many 1080p panels in the 50" and 58" size range this year. If production capacity is limited and they expect to sell all the 1080p panels they can make, then they might aim for a higher price figuring they will sell them to the video phile market anyway. I have no idea what their 1080p production capacity will be by the time the PZ700s hit the market. My guess is that Panasonic will be able to crank out the panels as they have been pouring a LOT of money into building new plants.

Summer is a long way off, but I would be surprised if the the MSRP for the 50PZ700 were to come in above the mid $3k range and likely even lower than that.

You're saying the PZ 1080p's will be about 1K more than the PX's? That's not much of a premium. I still think the 1080p's will be at least 2K more.

You're saying the PZ 1080p's will be about 1K more than the PX's? That's not much of a premium. I still think the 1080p's will be at least 2K more.

2k more and 1/2 the contrast.

What a deal.

2k more and 1/2 the contrast.

What a deal.

well said

2k more and 1/2 the contrast.

What a deal.

But twice the pixels :p

Actually, I think you will see these prices drop by next fall.

- Rich

This is not a personal attack on you, who I thank for adding something from Panny when they've given us nothing, but that is one worthless article. Aside from a couple pictures all of the information is already available on the Panny corporate web site linked to in this thread a few times. Some of the language in the article was right off that web site. The author also seems to be an English-as-a-third-language type, but that wouldn't bother me if there was one useful piece of info in there.

I wouldn't read anything into that article. I'm personally assuming any processor/firmward/glass improvements from 60/600 to 75 will be minimal, or Panny wouldn't put out a press release at CES that touts only the additional 1080p models and when it gets down to the 75 only lists "new cosmetic" as the distinguishing characteristic compared to the new models. Unless the Panny engineers have been working overtime since Jan. 1 on something like perfecting the inverse telecine thing, I'm expecting squat.

Minimal improvements on these models does make some sense for Panny. First, Panny wants to maintain or increase market share by refusing to cede the mid-lower end of the market and the only way to do that is to keep costs down on the 75 so they can charge within a couple hundred bucks of the compeition, which is at about $1800 at B&M store where most of these are sold. If they are starting at 2500 preorder then they'll be able to do that within a month or two of release. Second, everything is inevitably headed to 1080p at all screen sizes, and there may not even be models with this resolution in another product cycle or two. Why put a lot of engineering and money into a 720p technology that will probably be gone forever relatively soon, if you can keep market share better by keeping prices down. Who is going to beat them in quality at $2k even if they do nothing with the processor this year? Got to admit that both are good reasons not to do much on the processor side for the base models, although they'll lose some sales to higher end buyers that can't afford a 1080p.

Very well said. However, there is one model that should compete this year price wise and still provide a slightly better overall picture- the Pioneer 5070HD. Right now it can be had for around $2400 -$2500 shipped from an authorized dealer, and those prices will surely drop this year. You are correct, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Panasonic to improve an aging format (768p), but they still need t remain competitive.

It took 2+ years for the prices of the 50 inch 720p models to drop to $2000 (from any brand), so I don't see the 1080p models dropping significantly or swiftly. 1080p may be the wave of the future, but, in my opinion, I just don't see 1080p sales outnumbering 720/768p sales this year at all.

Back to the point, how much more could a simple software/firmware update cost Panny? Heck, honestly, how much is a new processor? My guess is not much. However, the real question is how much will they mark up their models due to a few small improvements? I know I would be willing to pay an extra $500 for a firmware update that improved the black levels of the TV and addressed the small issues. The way I see it, why not perfect the current models that bring in the most revenue rather than moving onto a new format. It doesn't make sense to move to 1080p until 768p is perfected, else we will always be buying less than perfect (or even close to perfect) television sets. You would think the top manufacturers would have this thing down by now...or maybe it's a marketing scheme. Either way, it makes me one frustrated consumer!