Considering there seems to be a consensus by HD-A2 owners that the player has a significant black/white crush picture defect, I couldn't help but wonder what others thought of Batman Begins' PQ through the A2.

Simply because out of the five HD DVDs I own (Batman Begins, World Trade Center, King Kong, Enter the Dragon, and Superman: The Movie), I am most disappointed with the PQ of BB.

Most reviews have given it close to a perfect score in terms of PQ.
AVS Forum has placed it in the Tier 1 category.

I just don't see it.

Compared to the unconverted SD DVD, of course it looks "better."
However, on HD DVD most of the darker scenes (which comprises 90% of the movie) just look muddled and devoid of the crisp detail I’d see even on Superman: The Movie.

World Trade Center, a movie that spends about half of the time in darkness and only listed in Tier 2, has magnificent detail and crispness even in the blackest of scenes.

My Mitsubishi 65831/1080p is ISF calibrated.

I’m hoping that the Toshiba HD-A2 is ruining my BB experience, from which a firmware update could do the fixin’, and not a case of progressive retina decay from my prison years.

Or ridiculous expectations on my part.

I’m still going to love HD DVD. Just not so much Batman Begins as reference material.

I just don’t know.

you are not the only one to have that opinion of BB. Many have been underwhelmed, me included. It's good, but not great

I don't have a crush issue with my setup, so... No problems with Batman on this front. It looks fantastic ; )

BB certainly looks good, but not as detailed as WTC or KK. I'm surprised you found Superman TM as being better - it was highly dissapointing for me, soft, noisy and a bit oversaturated. Enter the Dragon, though exhibiting heavy aliasing at times especially on my 1080p Bravia, was otherwise a terrific transfer especially the last fight w/ Han

I don't have a crush issue with my setup, so... No problems with Batman on this front. It looks fantastic ; )


Ditto that. I just looked at a few scenes and it does look great.

I thought the crush issue was just with a HDMI-DVI connection!
Not noticed any crush and I though Batman was a pretty impressive transfer.

you are not the only one to have that opinion of BB. Many have been underwhelmed, me included. It's good, but not great

I and many others think the image in BB looks disappointingly soft. In just about every other respect, it looks very good, but the softness is a serious problem for many of us.

I must say that BB is definitely not sharp. This was a real let down to me, I thought that Rundown had much better quality then Batman did, even though run down was highly saturated it was still much, much sharper the BB. I pretty much Judge High Definition on How much sharpness I can see, how much detail is shown, etc.. and with BB there is not much at all, but its still better then most upconverted SD-DVDs.

Isn't that what High definition was about in the 1st place, how much detail could be seen vs a Reg DVD?? I like the contrast too, but detail and sharpness is what catches my eye, and again BB was pretty soft in the HD realm. I have an A2.

Lets say that you do have a black crush problem, what about in the scenes outside in broad day light, you still get a very soft looking picture considering it should be HD.

Only one title I will call "soft" for HD DVD and that is Superman Returns. Then again its the artistic choice of the director. PQ and details still shines through fortunately.

Batman Returns is definitely a "sharp" transfer. A demo material.

^bump

I believe Batman returns is Fantastic "reference material", clearly great shadow detail and black levels superior to all other hddvd's, IMHO.
I should say I whatch it on a crt.

Although for Demo material to show off HDDVD I think the average Consumer would much prefer a bright crystal clear look of the Hulk.

It is soft compared to Aeon flux, and to the Hulk with it's crisp clarity and use of extreme closeups and Picture in Picture digital editing, but I think it is supposed to be softer than those.

Batman has a black suit, gray skies, and snow and rain in many of it's very few day scenes, while Aeon and the bright green Hulk are sunny and clear. It is soft but in a good way and not overly so JMT.

BB certainly looks good, but not as detailed as WTC or KK. I'm surprised you found Superman TM as being better - it was highly dissapointing for me, soft, noisy and a bit oversaturated. Enter the Dragon, though exhibiting heavy aliasing at times especially on my 1080p Bravia, was otherwise a terrific transfer especially the last fight w/ Han

Thats not Aliasing its Judder of an improper conversion of a 1080i transfer done while back. Afew movies like FMJ, Fugitive, LW1&2 and EtD all experience this in one way or another.

As for BB it might not be an issue with Black crush but BB was a dark film that doesn't experience alot of noise that you would expect and the Night detail is there. Its not glossy movie like King King and the Hulk that jumps out at you but it is a great representation of the movie. I think thats the biggest difference and not necessarily a Black crush issue.

I don't know why people keep on talking about shadow detail and black level, just compare the nice out door scenes when they are fighting on the glaciers or when Bruce is fighting in the prison gaurd, or where they are kids in the garden running around before he falls in to the well. They are all "softer" then many other titles provided by HD-DVD. It is not so soft that it is SD quality, not nearly so, but put it up against Riddick, or even run down for that matter, and BB doesn't give you that "Damn thats sharp" quality. I'm not talking about blacks and details in shadows, ya thats all great, but its not as sharp as some others such as the ones mentioned above.

I don't know why people keep on talking about shadow detail and black level, just compare the nice out door scenes when they are fighting on the glaciers or when Bruce is fighting in the prison gaurd, or where they are kids in the garden running around before he falls in to the well. They are all "softer" then many other titles provided by HD-DVD. It is not so soft that it is SD quality, not nearly so, but put it up against Riddick, or even run down for that matter, and BB doesn't give you that "Damn thats sharp" quality. I'm not talking about blacks and details in shadows, ya thats all great, but its not as sharp as some others such as the ones mentioned above.

I feel the same way. Whenever I complain that BB is soft, people say, well it's a dark movie. As you note, it's soft in bright scenes as well as dark ones.

Im another one who feels that BB is to soft. I stated my oppinion on the Tier thread, but since majority of Viewers feel it is the opposite, it is what it is.
BTW using LCD and sit about 7ft away.

Let me bring something to everyone else's attention, how many other top tier movies do you hear about where many people argue that the picture is not sharp?? I have not heard many from Hulk or KK, but I have heard a great deal of people stating that they think BB is not sharp and detailed, so I think that this fact says something its self. Even another thread other than this one was brought up and debated where to put BB in the tier hierarchy, I have not seen this for kK or hulk, or seabiscuit for that matter.

Oh yes, speaking of a really dark movie, Underworld evolution. Put this up against BB and I think that everyone will agree that UE is much, much more detailed then BB. I know, I have to put my Flame suit on because I have spoken of a BD movie, but seriously UE is dark but it still retains one of the most razor sharp pictues to be had on HD, I'm talking about pore, stubble quality detail.

I agree with others in this thread, Batman Begins does not have visual 'pop' that other HD DVDs do. Regardless of dark or light scene. I don't believe it should be in Tier 1, but that's just my opinion.

Considering there seems to be a consensus by HD-A2 owners that the player has a significant black/white crush picture defect, I couldn't help but wonder what others thought of Batman Begins' PQ through the A2.

Simply because out of the five HD DVDs I own (Batman Begins, World Trade Center, King Kong, Enter the Dragon, and Superman: The Movie), I am most disappointed with the PQ of BB.

Most reviews have given it close to a perfect score in terms of PQ.
AVS Forum has placed it in the Tier 1 category.

I just don't see it.

Compared to the unconverted SD DVD, of course it looks "better."
However, on HD DVD most of the darker scenes (which comprises 90% of the movie) just look muddled and devoid of the crisp detail I’d see even on Superman: The Movie.

World Trade Center, a movie that spends about half of the time in darkness and only listed in Tier 2, has magnificent detail and crispness even in the blackest of scenes.

My Mitsubishi 65831/1080p is ISF calibrated.

I’m hoping that the Toshiba HD-A2 is ruining my BB experience, from which a firmware update could do the fixin’, and not a case of progressive retina decay from my prison years.

Or ridiculous expectations on my part.

I’m still going to love HD DVD. Just not so much Batman Begins as reference material.

I just don’t know.

playing it with my PC and didn't notice any black crush at all. exceptional shading. that said, much of it did seem a little softer than some of my other HD DVDs, still another world overall compared to the SD DVD though.