http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003423.html

So much for Blu-ray's greater capacity blah blah blah :)

WOW! This is GREAT news! So now the only advantage blu-ray has is BD+ (wich they don't use yet anyways!!!) :D

This tells me alot about the HD-DVD group and specifically Toshiba. Man, they came to play and I LOVE that. They're in this to the bitter end and I also now feel some loyalty to their products.

Fantastic, now put a good transfer of Goodfellas on it!

The question is: will you need a new player to play these discs. I'm betting, yes.

Fantastic, now put a good transfer of Goodfellas on it!

You say that as if disc space had anything to do with that transfer..

Funny that they already announced that they have developed a 45GB triple-layer disc months ago. So this is supposed to be big news.... that they squeezed another 5GB out of a product that they announced months ago that we may never see? Must be their admission that the current 30GB spec is "not enough." Why else would you announce you are developing larger discs. Wonder how long it would take them to get a replication line running of 50GB discs and whether they will work on current players... you know... like Blu-ray does today.

What a non-event conference. Announcing a disc 5GB larger than you announced months ago. No price reduction in current players. No major new CE companies (Shinco? Lite-On? LOL!). No studio defections. No Lionsgate. No Disney. And a lineup of announced titles most of which from Warner and will also be on Blu-ray. LOL.

Sad we have to put up with DVD fanboys now..

Funny that they already announced that they have developed a 45GB triple-layer disc months ago. So this is supposed to be big news.... that they squeezed another 5GB out of a product that they announced months ago that we may never see? Must be their admission that the current 30GB spec is \\\\\\\"not enough.\\\\\\\" Why else would you announce you are developing larger discs. Wonder how long it would take them to get a replication line running of 50GB discs and whether they will work on current players... you know... like Blu-ray does today.

What a non-event conference. Announcing a disc 5GB larger than you announced months ago. No price reduction in current players. No major new CE companies (Shinco? Lite-On? LOL!). No studio defections. No Lionsgate. No Disney. And a lineup of announced titles most of which from Warner and will also be on Blu-ray. LOL.
what about onkyo and meridian? me i rather own an okyo hd-dvd player then a samsung or panasonic blu ray player.


but i don\'t get what you trying to say? if they never realease it then it must mean it isnt needed right ?

but you also talk about not wanting to wait but isnt blu ray the you wait and i might accomplish it format?

Funny that they already announced that they have developed a 45GB triple-layer disc months ago. So this is supposed to be big news.... that they squeezed another 5GB out of a product that they announced months ago that we may never see? Must be their admission that the current 30GB spec is "not enough." Why else would you announce you are developing larger discs. Wonder how long it would take them to get a replication line running of 50GB discs and whether they will work on current players... you know... like Blu-ray does today.

What a non-event conference. Announcing a disc 5GB larger than you announced months ago. No price reduction in current players. No major new CE companies (Shinco? Lite-On? LOL!). No studio defections. No Lionsgate. No Disney. And a lineup of announced titles most of which from Warner and will also be on Blu-ray. LOL.

You talk as if the BD camp hasn't announced things before they were released.

Grow the **** up.

You all need to report this cancer to the mods...and get him banned from the AVS.

Why doesnt the AVS at least have 30 day bans? Im not saying I would be able to say who gets banned or not, but there are a few I think we could a least take a break from.

not sure the point of the extra 20 gbs.

I thought the contention all along was that HD DVD had better features/PQ than BD already?

Plus it seems this new disk type is not defined in the HD DVD spec.

This product seems more applicable to the data storage market than CE.

not sure the point of the extra 20 gbs.

I thought the contention all along was that HD DVD had better features/PQ than BD already?

Plus it seems this new disk type is not defined in the HD DVD spec.

This product seems more applicable to the data storage market than CE.


If it eventually helps HD-DVD woo Disney their way it might be worth their trouble. :)

Here is what Amir said about this in the insider's thread:

http://mirror3.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9391967&&#post9391967
The format is actually 51 gigabytes (17 gigabytes/layer). And it is just at technology proposal at this point. They would need to submit it to DVD Forum for approval. Once we are through that cycle, then one can determine whether it plays or does not (DVD Forum may modify their proposal before ratification).

So at this point, think of it as Honda winning a Formula 1 race with a new engine, and not ready yet to tell you if it fits in your regular car :). But should make you feel good that HD DVD engineers are not sitting around but continuing to innovate.If you go with his analogy with the Formula 1 race engine, people may want to hold off on the, "We have 50GB too". Also, space without bandwidth only has so much application. If they want to have the bandwidth per space that DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray all pretty much have now (around 1Mbps bandwidth per 1GB of space) then they would have to spin these a little faster and up their bandwidth ceiling.

--Darin

They are releasing the 50 gig disk for one reason. Disney.

Disney has made a big deal of 50 gig for a long time and now HD DVD will have it as well. They can now port over all the different encodes to HD DVD with the new disk wothout loosing any extras or having to do a re-encode. Disney has been looking seriously at VC-! so they can pack their disks with extras

not sure the point of the extra 20 gbs.

I thought the contention all along was that HD DVD had better features/PQ than BD already?

Plus it seems this new disk type is not defined in the HD DVD spec.

This product seems more applicable to the data storage market than CE.

Well, the "point" is simply that Toshiba has been hearing "Blu-Ray discs can be up to 50gb. Your discs are only 30gb. How will you store long movies?" The argument aht 30gb is enough tends to fall on deaf ears (though it should not, since 30gb really is enough in most people's opinion) so they had to do something to combat the perception that BD was the better format because it could hold more.

Until we find out which players can read these discs (perhaps all, perhaps none, we don't really know yet) we can't get too excited by this. It will be interesting to see.

I personally don't think the extra space is really needed, but I wouldn't turn it down. Maybe they can use it for the super-ultimate-seven-hour-LoTR-exteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeended edition. You know its coming.

Here is what Amir said about this in the insider's thread:

http://mirror3.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9391967&&#post9391967
If you go with his analogy with the Formula 1 race engine, people may want to hold off on the, "We have 50GB too". Also, space without bandwidth only has so much application. If they want to have the bandwidth per space that DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray all pretty much have now (around 1Mbps bandwidth per 1GB of space) then they would have to spin these a little faster and up their bandwidth ceiling.

--Darin


So are you saying that spinning the disks faster will give them more bandwidth? If so, given how DVD drives and media have scaled in speed, wouldn't a bump up in speed for HD-DVD be expected?

So are you saying that spinning the disks faster will give them more bandwidth? If so, given how DVD drives and media have scaled in speed, wouldn't a bump up in speed for HD-DVD be expected?The spinning faster is part of the more bandwidth thing. If they went from 1.0x to 1.5x (which is what Blu-ray uses) then they could get 54Mbps instead of 36Mbps, which after 6Mbps overhead would leave them at 48Mbps instead of about 30Mbps. But, other parts would have to handle whatever extra bandwidth they specified. The HD-A1 uses the same Broadcom part as the Samsung as far as I know, so can do 40Mbps for video. But, the HD DVD camp could just leave their peak video bitrate at 29.4Mbps and use the extra bandwidth to keep audio and PiP from eating into the video bandwidth, like it pretty much does now.

The problem with going faster and drives and media get faster is that it can mean old players become incompatible. The movies need to be authored to a certain standard, which in theory could mean that they are allowed to not play on certain older hardware. It would be best if all the hardware could support the faster spin rate, but if 50GB discs wouldn't work in current hardware anyway (they don't even have the same amount per layer) then I would like to see them up the bandwidth if they ever approve these discs.

EDIT: The 17GB per layer instead of 15GB per layer might give them a little more bandwidth already and make my numbers above be a little off.

--Darin

The spinning faster is part of the more bandwidth thing. If they went from 1.0x to 1.5x (which is what Blu-ray uses) then they could get 54Mbps instead of 36Mbps, which after 6Mbps overhead would leave them at 48Mbps instead of about 30Mbps. But, other parts would have to handle whatever extra bandwidth they specified. The HD-A1 uses the same Broadcom part as the Samsung as far as I know, so can do 40Mbps for video. But, the HD DVD camp could just leave their peak video bitrate at 29.4Mbps and use the extra bandwidth to keep audio and PiP from eating into the video bandwidth, like it pretty much does now.

The problem with going faster and drives and media get faster is that it can mean old players become incompatible. The movies need to be authored to a certain standard, which in theory could mean that they are allowed to not play on certain older hardware. It would be best if all the hardware could support the faster spin rate, but if 50GB discs wouldn't work in current hardware anyway (they don't even have the same amount per layer) then I would like to see them up the bandwidth if they ever approve these discs.

EDIT: The 17GB per layer instead of 15GB per layer might give them a little more bandwidth already and make my numbers above be a little off.

--Darin


Ah-so.

Thanks for the clarification. Incompatability isn't good. I have an older DVD player that can't play some cheapy off-the-shelf DVD's. I doubt it's the player's fault though. More likely it's the software's fault.


EDIT:

I just saw Amir's clarification of the speed issue over in the Insider's thread.

not sure the point of the extra 20 gbs.

I thought the contention all along was that HD DVD had better features/PQ than BD already?

Plus it seems this new disk type is not defined in the HD DVD spec.

This product seems more applicable to the data storage market than CE.


You can always use more space for quality and extras. Even with VC1 there is quality sacrifice to fit long movies into 30GB.

so if it spins at 1.5x, i guess compatibility with older drives might be out of the question?

Funny that they already announced that they have developed a 45GB triple-layer disc months ago. So this is supposed to be big news.... that they squeezed another 5GB out of a product that they announced months ago that we may never see? Must be their admission that the current 30GB spec is "not enough." Why else would you announce you are developing larger discs. Wonder how long it would take them to get a replication line running of 50GB discs and whether they will work on current players... you know... like Blu-ray does today.

What a non-event conference. Announcing a disc 5GB larger than you announced months ago. No price reduction in current players. No major new CE companies (Shinco? Lite-On? LOL!). No studio defections. No Lionsgate. No Disney. And a lineup of announced titles most of which from Warner and will also be on Blu-ray. LOL.

Confused...yoyoniner, you just bought my HD-A1 yesterdy from the sellers forum and 10 HD DVDs.....now you bagging on the format?

Confused...yoyoniner, you just bought my HD-A1 yesterdy from the sellers forum and 10 HD DVDs.....now you bagging on the format?
link to where he bought it? or at least to your thread where your selling an a1? dont see anything in your post history or his about him buying or you selling an hd-dvd player ::confused::

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