Thinking about upgrading my theater and going really wide screen eliminating the 2 flat panel LCD's I have on each side of the screen I use for multi sport watching.

Are any current Video Processsors up to the task of running mutli video picture in picture?

If you don't mind using component video or VGA, both RGB Spectrum and TVOne (C2 series) can do PiP

http://www.rgb.com/en/default.asp
http://www.tvone.com/

Thanks Wilson I was hoping for multi picture in picture in picture, 3 or more sources on one screen and from the new Video Processors like Lumagen, DVDO etc.,

This one is probably overkill...
Kramer PIP-500
http://www.kramerelectronics.com/indexes/item.asp?desc=503
http://www.kramerelectronics.com/images/machina/highrez/PIP-500.jpg
The PIP-200xl, PIP-300, PIP-400, and PIP-500 are high performance picture-in-picture inserters for up to 2, 3, 4, or 5 signals, respectively.

All four models can accept and process composite video, s-Video (Y/C) and component video (YUV) signals.

The PIP output can display up to 5 images simultaneously (depending on model) each of which can be individually sized and positioned.

The PIP-400 and PIP-500 also have an additional quad output mode which displays four inputs in four equal sized images.

Multi-Format - Each input can be either composite video, S-Video or Component Video.

Picture-in-Picture Options - All inputs can be displayed simultaneously, variable window sizing (1:1, 1:4, 1:9 or 1:16 each input), variable window positioning, Freeze Frame capability, optional window Border, and text labeling available for all inputs.

Dedicated Quad Output Mode - 4 quarterscreen images displayed simultaneously for both S-Video and composite video outputs (PIP-400 & PIP-500).

Multi-Standard Operation - PAL, SECAM & NTSC compatible inputs. Although not a full standards converter, a PAL image can be mixed with NTSC images and the output can be either PAL or NTSC.

Digital Comb Filter - Adaptive comb filters for composite video to S-Video conversion.
Built-in Proc Amp - Brightness, Contrast, and saturation for each input.
Memory Locations - Store 2 PIP presets which can be quickly recalled.

High Resolution - Full 10 bit digital processing.
ebay 160061298345 ($2K)

Thanks Clarence pretty cool, I am really hopping it becomes available in one of the Gennum, HQV or DVDO based processors, I wouldn't think it would be too difficult

Clarence:

Do you think the Kramers output could be fed into a Video processor than scaled to 1080p by the seperate video processor and fed to the projector?

I think the user interface is going to be a challenge.

Do you switch between games frequently, or do you watch a primary game and keep the others in PIP?

Do you want the PIP windows to overlay the main picture or be off to the edge?

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6097/5pipcw0.png

It'd be nice if you could set it up Switching a game (and audio) with a single button for each designated channel.

What content source do you use? Satellite? Cable? OTA?

If standard cable, HTPC cards might be an option.

I'd think you'd need 4-5 cable/satellite boxes.

When I googled "multiple picture in picture", Microsoft IPTV kept popping up.

Even if you have a 1080P projector, then each PIP is only going to be 300x200 pixels. Is that enough to provide a watchable preview?

I think your better/simpler approach will be to use 4-5 20" LCD TVs (one for each sports program) and just switch channels on the main projector screen.

Sounds like that's what you're doing with your 2 side LCDs.

I currently run 3 HD Tivos via a matrix swither directly to 2 LCD TV's and also via a processor to my G90U, I can switch all 3 sources to any 3 video displays with sound following the g90 picture, I can also swap left panel with projector and or right panel video with projector.

Works perfectly but problem arises if I go with 14' wide screen, no room for LCD panels

Rumors have it that Microsoft is going to announce "multiple picture in picture" IPTV through the XBox360 at CES this week.

Are you considering 14' with a single G90?

No, I am considering 3 chip DLP

Thanks Wilson I was hoping for multi picture in picture in picture, 3 or more sources on one screen and from the new Video Processors like Lumagen, DVDO etc.,

The RGB Spectrum SuperView 4000-8/8 can display 8 RGB/DVI computer signals plus 8 video signals from 32 switched inputs! It can be controlled from RS232, ethernet and web browser.

The RGB Spectrum SuperView 4000-8/8 can display 8 RGB/DVI computer signals plus 8 video signals from 32 switched inputs! It can be controlled from RS232, ethernet and web browser.
only $21K? ;)

True, but the rgbs are danged pricey - looked into them myself a year or so ago. Since I'm running a 1o' wide 16x9 screen, figured I could do a pretty nifty side by side, with a couple 4x3s. Ideally, would be nice to just have both, toggle sound so I could listen to whichever game wasn't showing a beer (or ED) commercial.

For 2k, the Kramer doesn't look that bad; but if that's an ebay price, I can expect it to cost like an rgb spectrum, right?

btw, good to see you and your amazing search capabilities back over here, Clarence. :)

Wilson:

I didn't see that at first, a liitle pricey even for the quadview XL, just curious could 1080I or 720P inputs to these multi window processors be output with multi windows and fed into the input of a video processsor and upscaled to 1080P?

This might be a low-end option ($149) worth researching or playing with...

"Avermedia TVBox 9"
http://www.aver.com/mpd/tvbox9_spec.html
http://www.aver.com/mpd/tvbox9.pdf
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/tech-review.php?rev=38
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815100126

It has a HD15 VGA passthrough and it can create a Picture-in-Picture overlay. 1024x768 or 1280x1024. It also has a feature called "Multiple Channel Preview". An Amazon.com reviewer (http://www.amazon.com/AVERMEDIA-MTVBOXEX9-Avermedia-TVBox-9/dp/B00017X2KM) said:PNP - or Picture-in-Picture with See-Through Translucent Mode -- pretty nifty! At first I thought the PNP feature refers to the ability to view other channels in a little window overlaid on the current channel I'm on. Actually, to my disappointment, this feature refers to the ability to view TV in a little window over the computer desktop, so you can work on your computer while you watch TV. The PNP terminology was a little misleading! What's nice though is the little TV window can be made translucent, so you can see through it to view what's on your computer. There is no way, however, to adjust the level of transparency. I use the translucency feature mostly on news channels, where visuals aren't that important. You can also position the TV window anywhere on the screen with the remote.

Multiple Channel Preview. View 13 channels simultaneously. Well, actually, each channel is set in motion for about half a second and becomes a still. Regardless, you're still able to get an idea of what's on each channel, select what you want to watch, and watch it in full screen. I do find this feature very useful to quickly find the channel I wish to watch.

I don't know if the multiple channel preview continuously cycles/refreshes, or if it's a manual click to refresh.

I also don't know if the multi-channel preview works in overlay mode (so you can still see the primary image fed into the HD15 input).

And I don't think you could switch one of the small preview windows to become your primary audio/video.

Also, if you're considering a HTPC, maybe something like the "WinFast DTV1000 T"
http://www.leadtek.com.tw/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=220
ftp://ftp1.leadtek.com/tv_tuner/TV_Card_Manual/060410/6xxx_W05G0048(B)E.pdf
Picture-In-Picture (PIP), Picture-On-Picture (POP), Picture-And-Picture(PAP) :
2 channel programs processing at same time and master video can be alternative. The slave video can be displayed with any size and anywhereWinFast DTV1000 T provides multiple channel preview "Channel Surfing in a Snap" . User can pick any unlimited motion previews just only by a mouseExclusive M.V.P mode (Multiple-Video-Processing) : Enable 2 video cards; 4 channel programs processing simultaneously)

http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/ReviewImages/winfast_novo_tv/chan_surf.jpg

Ooh... they also have 4 to 16-source security monitor cards with live preview:
"WinFast Guard Pro"
http://www.leadtek.com/video_surveillance/winfast_guard_pro_1.html
http://crtforum.com/img/winfast4.jpg

But these high-end boxes are probably what you're really looking for...
Except I bet they're pricey like the other $2K-$20K multi-source processors:
http://www.fsrinc.com/scalars.htm
Eagle 100/HD
The Latest in Seamless Switcher Technology

With 8 analog video inputs, 1 Standard Definition SDI input / HD SDI on Eagle 100HD
and 1 DVI input, you can literally bring any video source into the Eagle.

Traditionally, single scaler seamless switchers were limited to transitioning between 2 full screen sources. With only 1 scaler, there was no way to incorporate another source for special effects. The Eagle 100 addresses this issue by using scaled and native resolution inputs and a layered architecture.

The Eagle 100 employs a layered approach for building the program output. The deepest layer is the background layer. This is derived from the DVI input or can be set to a color. The background layer allows computer generated content to be displayed without tying up the scaler.

On top of the background layer is the scaler layer. This layer derives its input from any of the analog or SDI inputs and can be used full screen, as a Picture in Picture (PiP) or as a Key.

Picture in Picture (PiP). PiP’s can be of any size and can have soft edges, user defined borders, and drop shadows. In addition, a PiP’s position and size can be animated for more dramatic effects.

Computer Resolutions up to 1600 x 1200
HD Resolutions up to 1080p


and the Extron MGP 464 Four Window Multi-Graphic Processor...
http://www.extron.com/product/product.asp?id=mgp464&search=MGP%20464
http://www.extron.com/download/files/brochure/mgp_464_464di_revD.pdf
http://www.extron.com/product/img/mgp464_60-771-01.jpg
• Combines video, HDTV, and high resolution RGB input sources into four windows on a single display
• RGB, HDTV component video, and DVI output
http://crtforum.com/img/extron-multi.gif

Kick A$$!!! - now all they have to do is put all that on a chip, and put it in my VP50. ;)

I just purchased a Superview 1000-4 off ebay. I am able to display 4 images on my screen. I am still trying to figure out all of the timing on it. All I can get right now is 480i to display. It looks pretty good, I can arrange the windows anyway I want, but it will look much better once I can figure out how to get it to display 720P. If anyone knows how to calculate the timing, I could use the help.

I just purchased a Superview 1000-4 off ebay. I am able to display 4 images on my screen.Looks cool...
http://www.rgb.com/en/News/PrintNews.asp?page=News%2FProductAnnouncements%2FSuperView%5 F1000

Here's the manual, in case you don't have it:
http://infosys.comm-tec.de/files/db_files/produkte/hersteller/rgb/ba_bedienungsanleitung/rgb_sv_ba000719.pdf

What is your job Clarence? Professional search agent? Holy smokes - I gave up looking for RGB manuals - the company theirselves hardly have any.....I believe you have outdone yourself here. (insert smiley face for major kudos.)

Finally got the timing figured out to display 720P, much clearer image now... I could have used this during the bowl games. This is basically like having 4 x 60 inch plasmas on my wall.. Now if I can just figure out how to get the color adjusted. My whites are pink and my Greens are white...

After hours of trying to get my color adjusted on the SuperView 1000, I realized that it was my Projector (HD72) that was causing the problem. It had defaulted to YCbCr on the Color-Space and it needed to be RGB. So Everything works great now. I highly recommend the RGB Spectrum SuperView series for a VP, if you can get your hands on one cheap. I got this one for under $1000 on ebay, compared to as high as $17,995 listed on a broadcast store.

My question is this, Does anyone know of a good, low priced Color-Space converter (RGB to YCbCr). I am not sure, but I think that this is what is preventing me from running this through my AV Receiver (Pioneer VSX-82TXS) The receiver just won't detect the signal. Not sure if this is the problem or not.

Is this VGA to Component (Y-Pb-Pr) Signal Transcoder (http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/kdvtca3.asp) you're looking for?

regards,

Li On

Is this VGA to Component (Y-Pb-Pr) Signal Transcode you're looking for?

regards,

Li On
I think that would actually work out. Now the decision is, do I want to be able to switch to "split screen" mode using my AV Receiver, or would I rather switch using my Projector. And I am pretty sure that it would cost much less then $169 (price of that transcoder) to have 3 cables made to run the signal up to my projector.

I think I like the idea of switching using the projector anyway, because that will make it easy to continue to use the AV Receiver to select whatever audio I want to listen to when having the multiple screens up, without having to worry about the video feed being interrupted every time I switch.

Great find though, I will keep that in mind, thanks...

Kearney:

Are you able to run the output of the superview through a Video Processor to upscale the image if neccesary?

LJG-

I am unable to run the output of the superview through my Pioneer VSX-82TXS. The receiver does not detect the signal, and I think it is because it is an RGB signal as opposed to a Component (Y-Pb-Pr) or (Y-Cb-Cr)

With that said, the only reason I was trying this was for video switching, not for upscaling, for the Output of the SuperView is already at 720P and works just great the way it is.

So the short answer is "No, but not necessary to upscale, since the SuperView can scale it to whatever resolution you want."

Kearney:

Can it upscale to 1080P60?

LJG-

It doesn't look like it will support 1080P, according to the Tech. Specifications
-Resolution 640x480 to 1600x1280, interlaced or non-interlaced,
-Horizontal scan 15kHz to 50kHz(interlaced) 30kHz to 100kHz(non-interlaced)
-Frame Rate: Up to 80Hz

I will double check tonight though to see if I can set it up to 1080P60.

I would think you could just run output of the Superview directly into the correct input of a video processor(rgb,component,HD15 etc)and let the Video processor upscale

I would think you could just run output of the Superview directly into the correct input of a video processor(rgb,component,HD15 etc)and let the Video processor upscale
I'm sure that would work too, as long as you have that type of input on the video processor I would think it would work just fine. Plugging it into the component input of my receiver didn't work, but if I had an HD15 or an rgb input I'm sure it would.

As far as if the SuperView will output 1080P60, I am messing around with it right now to see if it will take... It didn't error out when I set the Horizontal Active to 1920, so that is a good sign, but it will take me a while to be able to figure out all of the other timing parameters. I'll let you know what I find out.

Kearney:

Don't trouble, I see the model superview you have is limited to NTSC I was thinking more towards HD sports 720P and 1080I upscaled to 1080P

But it does look so super cool

Here is another company that makes some. I actually stumbled across this on accident when I was trying to upgrade my miranda IM. Typed the site in wrong and found another cool Videoprocessor.. http://www.miranda.com/product.php?i=326&l=1

little pricey, but very nice looking.