Looking for speakers and the Phase Tech dArts look interesting. In the Dallas-Fort Worth area and would like to demo.

Anyone operating this system and what is the real story on them. Are they as good as the reviews say they are.

Chuck

I haven't read any reviews, but I have heard them and they are extremely good and a great value considering what you get and the objectively fine performance they offer. They are very similar to NHT's Xd, but more full HT oriented. For 2.1, the NHT's are more detailed and offer some other things, but the PTs are a bit warmer/smoother and a more plush, refined HT experience. I recommend the newer "out of wall" models for the best performance, set up away from walls, but if the speakers are going in the walls or on the walls, there are few other speakers I can think of that can overcome that disadvantage like these do. Surprisingly high-tech and even "risky" from a company that has been somewhat under the radar for awhile. I'm going to start carrying these to augment the Xd system.

John,

Thanks for the reply. I will check out the NHT Xd also.

Chuck

Mr. Poindexter has quite a bit of experience with them I believe. Hopefully he will show up.

OK! I know there must be someone that hase PT dArts out there somewhere.

I have ot go to Orlando on business in March and may take time to drive to Jacksonville to see if I can get a demo.

Chuck

This Is The Worst Sounding Demo Of My Entire Life, A Tinned Ear's Person El Cheapo Synthesis System.

This Is The Worst Sounding Demo Of My Entire Life, A Tinned Ear's Person El Cheapo Synthesis System.

Actually, Chuck, if you know anything about Cineramax and how poorly he sets up hugely overpriced, over-geared audio systems, this is one of the biggest recommendations I've ever seen, the bizarro world "must audition" recommendation. :rolleyes:

...the bizarro world "must audition" recommendation.
Can't stop laughing

John,

Best to hear it for myself and then decide.

Chuck

Actually, Chuck, if you know anything about Cineramax and how poorly he sets up hugely overpriced, over-geared audio systems, this is one of the biggest recommendations I've ever seen, the bizarro world "must audition" recommendation. :rolleyes:

Pissoff lightweight!!

I am the lightweight. I don't even know what the acronym MTF means. All I am trying to do is put togetehr a high quality bi-amped system. I wanted to go with active speakers but it appears to be too expensive an option for my budget.

I figured about $8k for speakers and the dArts Amp must be worth what you would have to pay for a good amp.

When your new to selecting gear I don't mind takiing my time and doing the research.

I think everyone wants the best bang for their buck.

Chuck

Pissoff lightweight!!

Come on. You guys have a long way to go to top Rosie and the Donald!!

I am the lightweight. I don't even know what the acronym MTF means. All I am trying to do is put togetehr a high quality bi-amped system. I wanted to go with active speakers but it appears to be too expensive an option for my budget.

I figured about $8k for speakers and the dArts Amp must be worth what you would have to pay for a good amp.

When your new to selecting gear I don't mind takiing my time and doing the research.

I think everyone wants the best bang for their buck.

Chuck

Chuck welcome to the forum, I meant no disrespect. there has to be something out there better sounding than having someone with a metal claw scrape a blackboard in your face. Tha'ts what the system sounded like to me. A torture chamber. Buy a used meridian system instead.

Pissoff lightweight!!

At least I know how to set things up :rolleyes: You remind me of one of my competitors - sells overpriced pieces, puts them together wrong, then I have to go make it all sound decent. I think the newest PT system is equal to or better than all but the top one or two Meridian systems at this point and I'm a Meridian dealer. If anything, it's a bit too polite for my tastes, but is quite good. I think it was John Kotches that gave it a very good review in WSR, at least, that's what I hear and he's a Meridian guy. The bookshelf 650 system is the one to check out, IMO.

At least I know how to set things up :rolleyes: You remind me of one of my competitors - sells overpriced pieces, puts them together wrong, then I have to go make it all sound decent. I think the newest PT system is equal to or better than all but the top one or two Meridian systems at this point and I'm a Meridian dealer. If anything, it's a bit too polite for my tastes, but is quite good. I think it was John Kotches that gave it a very good review in WSR, at least, that's what I hear and he's a Meridian guy. The bookshelf 650 system is the one to check out, IMO.

Sure, you have not heard or seen my setups for which I get called back 15 years later to do new improved systems. My stuff sounds great, thank you very much.

Maybe the larger Darts system sounds acceptable, the smaller one does not.

Sure, you have not heard or seen my setups for which I get called back 15 years later to do new improved systems. My stuff sounds great, thank you very much.

I've seen the pics. Bad setup is easy to see.

Maybe the larger Darts system sounds acceptable, the smaller one does not.

Maybe you should just relax. Unacceptable to Cineramax = rave review, IMO. You think everything is black (I don't sell it, it sucks) or white (I sell it, it's the best). Just remember, lots of people think some of the stuff you sell and install sucks too.

I think Phase Tech should give me a good deal on a set of dArts. From the response on this and other forums I have yet to hear from anyone that owns a dArts System.

Lets start a campaign to give a set to "Chuck " for free if he will demo in his home theater.

Please send emails to Ken Hecht at sales@phasetech.com - Subject - Give a dArts System to Chuck.

Who knows stanger things have happened!

Chuck

I believe that request belongs in the ultra low-end $0 and under forum.

QQQ

I think I need to start looking at other comparable systems. Doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for Phase Tech.

The Meridians and NHT systems may be a better approach.

Has anyone have any input on this new KEF 5000W or the Neosonik Systems that were displayed at CES.

Still hard to beleive there are no dArts owners out there.

_____________
Chuck

I have not heard them myself but I believe Mike Poindexter had a very favorable opinion about them and used them in one opf his theater rooms. I would send him a PM. He used to contribute here all the time. He owned a pair of Infinity IRS V and one would assume knows what good sound it. Do a search on the name poindexter and send him a PM.

I would not assume just because not many have them that they are not good...of course I wouldn't assume that makes them good either :).

I like JMlab very much but they are not digital active which it sound like you are looking for. I also think Meridian is quite good.

Still hard to beleive there are no dArts owners out there.

Not to me. PT isn't known for being a high-end company really and have sort have been under the radar. The dARTS system is really an aggressive move, but isn't getting the press it deserves. "Build it and they will come" doesn't work in audio. It's more like "market it and they will come". The game is so rigged now that if a high performance solution doesn't come from a ridiculously expensive, famous brand, it gets no respect from anyone, no matter how good it is. It's a shame, but it's reality. I think the PT system is clearly one of the best dedicated HT systems out there. I thought movies were fantastic. The newer ones seem to do better with music.

First post...

I just joined here to add my experience, since I've been considering the phase tech darts system for my own theater (if, at some point, I can afford one).

I just wanted to add that CINERAMAX's comments were the first negative ones I've seen regarding the darts system. Granted, there isn't a lot of people talking about it and I've never heard it for myself, but, as I say, his are the only negative comments I've seen - not that he was particularly specific about what he didn't like.

Progress!

I may have a demo on the dArts 525 System next week. The Texas area rep is going to set up a demo at a Phase Tech dealers location in Hurst, Texas. When they give the date and time I will post just in case there is anyone else in the DFW area that would like to hear them in action.

Only other issue is what Pre/Pro or Receiver to marry up to the dArts Amp. I would like a card based system for upgrade reasons. Since all of the EQ occurs in the Amp maybe a simpler receiver would do. any suggestions on experience would be helpful.

Last call for alcohol!

The demo for the Phase Tech dArts 525 System is scheduled for Monday afternoon at Universal Electronics in Hurst, Texas. Universal is the delaer for PT in the DFW area.

Talk about pressure. Probably just a joke but they said just bring a check. Since I am new to demoing and buying high end equipment is it normal to be preparred to purchase something if they demo it. They are also dealler for the Sim PJ's and Stewart. I may have to arrive in an armored bank truck.

Just thought I would post in case anyone else was interested in seeing and hearing the system.

___________________
Chuck

Granted, there isn't a lot of people talking about it and I've never heard it for myself, but, as I say, his are the only negative comments I've seen - not that he was particularly specific about what he didn't like.

The Cedia presentation of the DARTS junior was a total disappointment for me. Like a claw scratching on the blackboard whilst bombarded with boomy bass. What could sound worst?


Bring some ear plugs I say.

What a shock, a CEDIA demo that sounded bad! If that were the criteria, then we should all go back to boom boxes. I've never heard a CEDIA demo that *didn't sound like a claw scratching on the blackboard bombarded with boomy bass".

Besides, Cineramax is petrified that these systems will have people wondering why they hired him in the first place.

Chuck, the "bring your checkbook" is part joke, part a bit of cockiness that you'll like the system. Don't worry, most high-end purchases are never made the same day. We'll be interested to hear what you thought.

Besides, Cineramax is petrified that these systems will have people wondering why they hired him in the first place.

FYI: People hire me for my debonaire Ricky Ricardo accent.

I do appreciate all of the comments posted on this thread to date. Thanks to all that took time to comment.

It will be fun test driving the dArts System tomorrow with the Phase Tech regional distributor. Might even pull up this thread so they can relate to the fact that its been open since the 9th of January and we only have 28 post to date. Armed with this informaiton maybe PT will like to get a little more aggressive on marketing this system.

To prepare I went out and listened to several speaker systems today, Klipsch RF-82, Atlantic Technology, Krell Resolution 3, Sunfire XT just to prepare. The Sunfire XT speakers suprised me. Sounded almost as good as the Krell's, especially the highs. Only the bass was more solid on the Krell's. $5K a pair compared to $1.6K per pair.

Both beat out the Klipsch and AT.

I'll post my impression on the dArts Monday night.

_____________
Chuck

These are extremely well regarded speakers, but they are not digitally enhanced, and the distribution channels are much smaller than mainstream design.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/

His designs have received Class "A" ratings in Stereophile, if that means anything to you, and he considers the Orions his best of the bunch.

The cost can range from ~$2.5K DIY plus amps (you need 4 ch/side), it is an active design, to $7.5K built including the amps

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_us.htm

Despite their price, many believe that these speakers can compete with speakers costing 10 times their price.

Linkwitz is considered one of the best speaker designers, he just is not very self promoting, nor is he very good at playing the high end game.

I'll post my impression on the dArts Monday night.


Well...? :-)

I had the demo and was taking time trying to decide what to write to be fair.

The system was the same one they had at CES. It had the L/C/R's with the new cabinet design and the 6 series surrounds in a 5.1 setup.

Overall, music sounded very good on the dArts. It was on par with other speaker systems I have listened to in the past several weeks. Paradigm, Krell, Def Tech, B&W, etc.

HT was a little less convincing. We used the movie Gladiator as a reference. In the first major action scene where the Romans are fighting the bass sounded muddy or shell I say confused. The sound seemed to come heavily only from the L/R with little impact from the C and Surrounds. This may have been solely a setup problem, the movie itself and may have been correctable if we were not doing just a quick and dirty demo in a 1 hour period of time. Also, during scenes that were mostly vocal, the Center channel did not sound loud enough without increasing the volume from the previous scenes. Again, maybe a setup problem.

We did make several corrections using the Audessy EQ Pro equipment and you can see from the graphs the before and after. The graphs after correction show a very flat curve. Since I was not there prior to them taking the initial 6 readings and making the initial corrections it is hard to know the difference in sound quality before and after correction. If the sound does not meet your expectations it doesn't matter how flat the curve is.

The software from Audessy is only available to a qualifed installer and if you have to change settings in the future you have to have the installer back out to make adjustments. In my opinion if you spend the $15,000 to $20,000 for a system (By the time you get it installed and EQ'd) you should have the software and learn how to use it and make your own corrections in the future.

The amp appears to be a quality product that PT has made by Marantz and uses the D2 Audio digital amps. It has a maximum of adjustment of plus or minus 12dB of EQ. If you are over this limit it will require external adjustments. The input signal is analog and upon conversion remains digital until it reaches the speaker drivers. This information is from the PT rep there for the demo. I thought the signal from the amp to the speakers would be analog but he insisted it was a digital signal. He gave me a term for this technology but hard to remember. I always thought a speaker driver needed an electrical current to work. If anyone knows the answer please post.

I was impressed with the dArts technology since I had been researching active speaker systems and realized quite early on that it would be well outside my budget. Since the dArts includes the 16 channel digital amp I figured it was a 70/30 split between the speakers and amp. Just buy a good pre/pro and move on.

Overall, I have made no further decision other than I would like to hear the system setup in an actual home theater setting where all of the accoustical issues have been corrected. I have a business trip to Orlando in March and may visit Phase Tech and see an in-house demo there if I have the time. I asked if they had systems installed in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area and they indicated they did however, they never offered to see if they could get a current owner to let me see them in action.

Since I am not in any hurry to complete my HT project I will continue to listen to other systems and keep the dArts as an option. If anyone has the dArts please let me know your experience with them.

_____________
Chuck

The input signal is analog and upon conversion remains digital until it reaches the speaker drivers. This information is from the PT rep there for the demo. I thought the signal from the amp to the speakers would be analog but he insisted it was a digital signal. He gave me a term for this technology but hard to remember. I always thought a speaker driver needed an electrical current to work. If anyone knows the answer please post.

The signal is analog, but I think what he meant is that it was generated by a digital output. The output would be filtered to create an analog of the input signal. The signal would be essentially the same either way, but the D2 amps are basically big DACs with enough power to drive a speaker rather than just a preamp.

Not exactly the bleeding ears I experienced but I see where you are coming from.

Why not do a meridian c-51, g-91, and In wall powered speakers combo? That sounds great.

The software from Audessy is only available to a qualifed installer and if you have to change settings in the future you have to have the installer back out to make adjustments. In my opinion if you spend the $15,000 to $20,000 for a system (By the time you get it installed and EQ'd) you should have the software and learn how to use it and make your own corrections in the future.


Even getting the software, you would need about $1K in hardware to work it as it requires additional equipment to interface computer to the system and take readings. Also, putting the software in the end customer's hands dramatically increases the amount of tech support they have to give on the software side, driving up the cost to implement such technology. Think of how many part time users of the software are going to be calling for help getting it to work...


The amp appears to be a quality product that PT has made by Marantz and uses the D2 Audio digital amps. It has a maximum of adjustment of plus or minus 12dB of EQ. If you are over this limit it will require external adjustments.


If you have more than 12db of adjustment to make, you are in a room that isn't well designed. Systems like this are going to let you take a well designed room to the next level. They are not a replacement for good acoustical design any more than saying you have a 3-chip 2 lamp DLP so you don't need light control to get good contrast.


The input signal is analog and upon conversion remains digital until it reaches the speaker drivers. This information is from the PT rep there for the demo. I thought the signal from the amp to the speakers would be analog but he insisted it was a digital signal. He gave me a term for this technology but hard to remember. I always thought a speaker driver needed an electrical current to work. If anyone knows the answer please post.


He was incorrect. The signal remains digital until it gets to the AMP portion of the signal chain. Once there, it is converted to analog. Speakers must have an analog signal. For the few speakers in the world that can have a digital signal sent to them, they merely moved the D/A conversion and amplification inside the speaker cabinet.


Overall, I have made no further decision other than I would like to hear the system setup in an actual home theater setting where all of the accoustical issues have been corrected. I have a business trip to Orlando in March and may visit Phase Tech and see an in-house demo there if I have the time. I asked if they had systems installed in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area and they indicated they did however, they never offered to see if they could get a current owner to let me see them in action.


Let me know if Phase Tech cannot arrange an in-home demo. We have a system installed in Orlando that has a Phase Technology dARTS system. I would have to check with the owner if we can get a demo going though...


Since I am not in any hurry to complete my HT project I will continue to listen to other systems and keep the dArts as an option. If anyone has the dArts please let me know your experience with them.

____________
Chuck

I will say this: if you heard a system that had poor bass, it was likely caused by poor placement of the sub. An EQ cannot correct for many things, like nulls, much like an engine tuneup isn't going to fix a flat tire. Good bass can be tough to do if you don't get lucky with your initial placement. Certainly rooms with no treatements to handle bass issues are going to have a tougher time at it.