Can I do this with a G4? Please assist.

[stevecaz]

I am more than happy to spend countless hours performing the research how to do it, but I decided to ask the simple question first - "can it even be done". This will save me all those hours if the simple answer is no. I'm a PC guy, so entering the Mac world is a bit new.

Here is the basic question up front, with details following:
Can I turn a 1.25ghz G4 into a home theater PC, which will act as a DVR with playback through my television. And if so can I do this in High Def? Finally, will the required additional hardware/software end up costing more than just building my own MS Vista PC.

OK, so the details.
My wife just brought home a brand new 1.25ghz G4 tower from her office that was being discarded since they are doing an upgrade. It was an extra one new in box and a benefit of being heir to the company.
Specs: 1.25ghz G4, 1 GB SDRAM (requested purchase upgrade), ATI Radeon 9000 w/64mb, Apple display connector and DVI connector, 4 open slots, OS 9 and OS X included.

We currently have a standard Directv Tivo system. All my equipment now resides in an A/V cabinet I built in the basement controlled by Xantech wired IR sensors and emitters. I'd like to use the G4 in this cabinet to act as a DVR, thereby removing monthly Tivo subscription fees (obviously not Directv fees), and also as a HD DVR since those are costly even used. Ideally I like to just get the new Tivo HD box for TV content, but not at $800. I had planned for a Vista PC in my cabinet to do the same thing, but hey, can't beat a free G4. I can get the HD non-DVR box from Directv free with HD service package, so that would be my signal source. Plus of course, I'd like to show pics, personnal movies, and maybe even internet through the TV. The G4 will sit in the rack with no monitor, except for its connection to the LCD TV. The internet display part is easy with a bluetooth keyboard. I know there are free services for program guides using windows media center as a DVR, but don't know if the same exists for Mac.

Initial research found lots of ways to display TV on your screen, but not act as a DVR through the TV. So, if this can be done, any links or places to look would be appreciated as I dive into my research into how to make this happen. Thanks.

[Doug_Eldred]

I believe there's a thread here on using FireWire to talk to cable boxes, though it might not apply to DirecTV nor be a DVR in the sense you want. You should also look at Elgato's products, which I think are also discussed here. You might also want to look at the HDTV forum on 123macmini.com, even though your G4 isn't a Mini, but most stuff still applies.

[chefklc]

Short answer, no.

There's A LOT of value in that particular G4 home-theater-wise, value that the G4 mini doesn't come close to having anymore, but a single G4 isn't powerful to play back high def, even if you could record off DirecTV (which you can't) or subscribed to cable and got an STB with an active firewire port (not guaranteed, but if so a big advantage over the satellites which don't have firewire) or bought a couple of EyeTV units for OTA and/or QAM (highly recommended.) The G4 is powerful enough to record the high def just fine, that isn't too processor-intensive, it just can't play it back, so it's not gonna be the all-in-one solution you're wondering about. That's not to say you don't have options or that the tower doesn't have value.

Some PC-types, in fact, get an old G4 just to capture high def via firewire--there have been a bunch of threads on this over time once they realized how sucky it was to try to implement this with a Windows PC--though VirtualDVHS and the Firewire SDK could hardly be called user-friendly.

Now, that G4, an EyeTV500 or two, an antenna for ATSC, and something cheap like the core duo mini or Macbook connected to your LCD, all on your gigabit home network? That's a nice way to dump monthly subscription fees, revel in very glorious high def and archive a whole bunch of network-type HD programming. Many of us here have done this for years--though improving, the EyeTV "user experience" is a far cry from Tivo--but unlike Tivo or DirecTV or Comcast etc, which tend to restrict what you can and can't do with content--you can easily stick four big hard drives in that PowerMac that fell into your lap, pick up a couple of used EyeTV500s off Craigslist, use something else as an extender (not even a Mac necessarily, though it's more seamless that way) and you're good to go. Like anything else it's a question of TCO--you'll have to add the numbers up to see whether the purchase of a cheap core duo mini or Macbook makes sense versus your other options. Also, most of us wouldn't recommend putting that G4 tower anywhere near your LCD, if it's on the gigabit network it can be anywhere.

Whether you might want to build your own Vista PC instead, well, that might be a better subject for another forum.

Many of us who record high def via QAM and OTA with our Macs also retain other solutions for recording premium and encypted content. Just depends what you like to watch and how you like to watch it.

[stevecaz]

Thanks for the input.

Thats too bad and I'll start off then with using it for a file server for music and videos and likely slap in a large extra hard drive. Can it do standard def DVR duties? By the way, the LCD TV I was talking about is a home theater projector that we use as our primary TV. It is a couple years old just before they added DVI so it only has component, VGA, and S-video inputs. I would have needed to use the component for HD content. The Mac will live in the AV cabinet in the basement with the stereo equipment and directv receiver, about 25 linear feet from the projector.

I was hoping it could act like my other Tivo, a standalone Series 2 which simply sends an IR signal to the Directv box telling it to change channels, and then records the content sent out via S-video. I was thinking there was a solution to do the same and just hook the DVI output of the HD Directv box to the Mac to record content, and then the mac to the projector. I wasn't even thinking firewire until you mentioned it nor did I know a G4 doesn't have the power to show high def.

[chefklc]

well, that's why you were smart to ask upfront. glad to help. trying to get legacy equipment to play nice together can often be frustrating, hell, even trying to get current gen equipment to play nice together can be frustrating!

That Mac can live very well in your basement, and you can get a lot of use out of it for all sorts of home audio and video serving type tasks--just not what you'd wish it could do given the other parameters you've stipulated.

My sense is if and when you upgrade your displays and/or projectors to something more current, your PowerMac could continue to play a role, though not directly connected, probably better as a server over gigabit to another device on the network.

I was thinking there was a solution to do the same and just hook the DVI output of the HD Directv box to the Mac to record content

Unlike firewire, that's not how 'DVI' or 'HDMI' out works.

Welcome to the current content delivery models in the digital age: vendors have a vested interest in hindering your ability to do this because this takes money out of their pocket. To a certain extent all device manufacturers have cooperated in this. You subscribe to Tivo or satellite or cable you agree to be locked down, accept their terms and use their equipment, etc.

The firewire loophole has been one saving grace.

This is why there have been hundreds of thousands of posts here at AVS in any number of forums dealing with essentially the same issue: how can I take more control over the digital content that comes into my house and overcome the limitations that my (insert provider name here) try to impose on me? It's a vast subject, there are different pitfalls and hurdles to overcome with each provider, and a lot of reading to be done. Best of luck.

(There are a couple of ways to record S-video out of your DirecTV box with the Mac, the end result will be slightly better than what you get now with the standalone Series 2 Tivo, but it'll still suck in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately. Some folks who still do analog report good luck with EyeTV devices when it comes to digitizing and converting content--and your 1.25 G4 can handle that. Of the current products, you might want to check out the 250.)

[Doug_Eldred]

Roxio announced some kind of TiVo-for-Mac product/integration at CES, don't know if that helps your goals/situation or not.

[David_Bianco]

I was HTPCing with a 1.25Ghz G4 Mac Mini, a couple of years ago. My other equipment: 27" Sony WEGA crt tv, DirecTV satellite, EyeTV 200. The satellite box connected to the eyetv which connected to the mini which connected to the tv with a dvi/s-video dongle. As mentioned, elgato makes the eyetv hardware box as well as the eyetv pvr software to run on the mac. The problem with elgato is that they rely on your computer's CPU to do the encoding/decoding, thus for an HD signal you need an Intel Core DUO, at least. Unlike Hauppaugue, a PCI card for Windows/Linux, which has its own "cpu" on the card to spare the computer's cpu.

Another problem was that the elgato pvr software does not play nice with satellite signals. I could not catalog my directv channels so I could later say "record channel 38 at 4am, and channel 327 at 6am." With cable, the pvr software is able to change channels without you being in the room. My workaround? Leave the satellite on channel 608 (OLN) the night before, and tell it to start recording at 5am for 3 hours (Tour de France coverage last July). This "worked" but if I also wanted to record a knitting show for my woman, I'd have to come home at lunch and change the channel which wasnt possible. I started looking into options of writing a script to control an IR blaster, something like IRtrans, but didnt get very far before just spending the $6/mo for DirecTivo.

[Ronin1]

You should be aware that Time-Warner Cable (and probably the others) have gone to great lengths with their STBs to prevent the output of HD quality signals to any device other than the TV set. Many of the STBs are capable of being programmed to change channels at a particular time for those digital channels that your EyeTV or whatever can not tune directly, but there are some complications if you are using the cableco's DVR. The output from a recording on the cableco's DVR will be essentially the same as the "live" output (in SD).

[David_Bianco]

Another option to put into the mix.... If you have more time than you know what to do with, you could install Linux and MythTV onto your G4 tower. the linux gurus hang out over here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=76