How come I am able to pass a dts or a digital dolby 5.1 dvda signal thru the optical out, but not sacd? when i put an sacd in it tell me to change the optical audio setting to something else. what is the difference? what do i need to to? Thanks! Please PM me if you can.

Copy protection. SACDs do not permit output in unencrypted digital form. You'll only be able to get it out through HDMI (because it's encrypted) as 5.1 channel PCM, or the 2-channel analogue outputs.

Alternatively, of course, just play the CD layer.

Copy protection. SACDs do not permit output in unencrypted digital form. You'll only be able to get it out through HDMI (because it's encrypted) as 5.1 channel PCM, or the 2-channel analogue outputs.
Does the signal remain DSD when sent through the two-channel analogue outputs?

Well, it's analogue by that point, so the question is really, did it go straight from DSD to analogue, or did it go via PCM?

I'd normally assume on a Sony product that it wouldn't have gone via PCM, but in this case, as it's not exactly a core function of the box, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PS3 doesn't have any proper DSD signal paths, and goes via PCM, just as it goes out on the HDMI as PCM.

I'd normally assume on a Sony product that it wouldn't have gone via PCM, but in this case, as it's not exactly a core function of the box, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the PS3 doesn't have any proper DSD signal paths, and goes via PCM, just as it goes out on the HDMI as PCM.It has been mentioned by Sony engineers that the Sony currently only outputs SACD via DSD->PCM. My receiver (Sony STRDG1000) always reads the signal as 5.1 @ 176(.4)kHz PCM, but the original mix on the SACD is retained (i.e., 4.0 is still 4.0, 3.1 is still 3.1, etc). Whether a capability exists to upgrade via firmware to pure DSD via the HDMI 1.3 revision is unknown.

For an optical connection, you may need to change the output from "Bitstream" to "PCM". If you're not using HDMI for audio ouput as well as visual output, check your audio settings and make sure it's set to optical, because the PS3 automatically determines HDMI audio and video by checking the connected devices. It's really cool if your receiver has HDMI capability, but if you're running HDMI to a display and optical to a receiver it can be a hassle.

Whether a capability exists to upgrade via firmware to pure DSD via the HDMI 1.3 revision is unknown.
Just to nit-pick - DSD is supported in HDMI 1.2, and a few receivers already support this.

HDMI 1.3 adds DST - the DSD compression system used on SACDs (the equivalent of MLP/Dolby True HD).

Just to nit-pick - DSD is supported in HDMI 1.2, and a few receivers already support this.
Correct. I shoukd have pointed that out, and I figured that HDMI 1.3 included the features of previous revisions. Which brings us to...

HDMI 1.3 adds DST - the DSD compression system used on SACDs (the equivalent of MLP/Dolby True HD).True. In fact several of the PS3's processors are used for both DST->DSD and DSD->PCM. Here's the SACD portion of an interview with the PS3 team:

-SACD is stored in the DST format (= compressed DSD). DST changes compression methods and parameters every 1/75 seconds, which eats huge processing load when decoding. In the first 2 months the developer optimized it into realtime processing. Then he threw away the old source code and wrote a faster new codec in 3 weeks with the knowledge he had gained. It uses 5 SPEs - 3 SPEs for DST decompression, and 2 SPEs for DSD to PCM conversion.

-After that, he debugged it while consulting the professional audio equipments division of Sony that
developed the DSD format itself. It took 6 months.

-Then the audio tuning specialist at the audio division of Sony began to use a PS3 to check the sound of the then unreleased HD receiver TA-DA3200ES. He pointed out where to fix in the PS3's digital audio processing to SCE. It was in the early October, and the dynamic range at that time was 140dB which was the initial goal set by another Sony developer who developed DSD. The PS3 firmware version 1.10 is this version with a few updates. The decimation filter of the SACD decoder outputs at 24bit/88.2kHz.

-However, last Friday, Honda went to a place for the interview with Ken Kutaragi for some audio/videophile magazine. They brought there an even newer version with a decimation filter at 24bit/176.4kHz. Also, the 64-bit DP internal data of the decimation filter is rounded down to 30-29-bit instead of 24-bit for the output. The dynamic range is over 170dB and the theoretical number reaches 180dB in 30-bit. Honda says its sound was really good even when compared with the sound of the 1.1 version firmware. The Sony developer attributes the goodness to the fact that the software SACD codec of the PS3 processes all data in 64-bit double precision. This new firmware version will be available when the BD remote is released in December.
I've bolded portions that seemed the most audiophile-centric, if they have any useful info for KMO or others. I can't personally comment on any difference between SQ between v1.10 (factory) and v1.31 (current) firmwares, as I ddin't get an HDMI-capable receiver until right after v1.30 (the December update mentioned in the interview).

Requoting some of the same material as above:

It was in the early October, and the dynamic range at that time was 140dB which was the initial goal set by another Sony developer who developed DSD. The PS3 firmware version 1.10 is this version with a few updates. The decimation filter of the SACD decoder outputs at 24bit/88.2kHz.

-However, last Friday, Honda went to a place for the interview with Ken Kutaragi for some audio/videophile magazine. They brought there an even newer version with a decimation filter at 24bit/176.4kHz. Also, the 64-bit DP internal data of the decimation filter is rounded down to 30-29-bit instead of 24-bit for the output. The dynamic range is over 170dB and the theoretical number reaches 180dB in 30-bit. Honda says its sound was really good even when compared with the sound of the 1.1 version firmware. The Sony developer attributes the goodness to the fact that the software SACD codec of the PS3 processes all data in 64-bit double precision.

So this quote is saying that there are different levels of quality possible in the DSD-PCM conversion step (the "output of the decimation filter" being PCM), and Sony engineers are currently working on optimizing that step, and [one of] the "Sony developer[s] who developed DSD" is participating in, or supervising, this recent work!? OMG, what happened to the old, simple doctrine of "decimation is bad, PCM is bad at no matter what resolution, DSD-PCM conversion is bad, only direct DSD-analog conversion is good"? Do these new revelations require rewriting previous Sony texts about SACD? :D

I've just got my PS3 up and running this weekend and had a chance to try out a few SACDs... but am unable to get the multi-channel to work, just 2-channel.

I've got HDMI connection of the PS3 into the back of my Denon 2807 receiver and am able to get multi-channel w/ the Blu-ray movies I've tried.

An example... I insert Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms. I see three options on the screen, CD layer, SACD 2 channel and SACD multi-channel. When I select the multi-channel layer I still only get audio from left and right speakers.

Is there any trick to getting multi-channel SACD working on the PS3?

I've just got my PS3 up and running this weekend and had a chance to try out a few SACDs... but am unable to get the multi-channel to work, just 2-channel.

I've got HDMI connection of the PS3 into the back of my Denon 2807 receiver and am able to get multi-channel w/ the Blu-ray movies I've tried.

An example... I insert Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms. I see three options on the screen, CD layer, SACD 2 channel and SACD multi-channel. When I select the multi-channel layer I still only get audio from left and right speakers.

Is there any trick to getting multi-channel SACD working on the PS3?

The 2807 is is only running HDMI version 1.1.. you need a receiver with HDMI version 1.2 in order to pass SACD via HDMI.

All of this is very confusing to me. Since the PS3 converts the DSD of SACDs into PCM, by definition of DSD isn't there signal loss??? When I play a multi-channel SACD on my PS3, my receiver tells me the PCM signal is sampled at 88.2 kHz. When listening to the same SACD at 2-channel, the sample rate is 176 kHz. However, isn't the native sample size of DSD in the MEGAhertz range (specifically, 2,822,400 hertz). So, if you just do the math...2,822,400 samples scaled down to 88,200 samples or even 176,400 samples just doesn't compare. Now...when I pop Nine Inch Nails' "The Downward Spiral" into my PS3 and activate the multichannel track through HDMI, it sounds spectacular, and I really don't know what I would be missing if I got all of the 2,822,400 samples. Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but am I missing something???

The 2807 is is only running HDMI version 1.1.. you need a receiver with HDMI version 1.2 in order to pass SACD via HDMI.

Not true...all you need is a receiver that is HDMI 1.1 compliant. Assuming you set the PS3 HDMI's audio settings to output "PCM" rather than "Bitstream" you should get the 5.1 track. My Pioneer Elite VSX-74txvi is only HDMI 1.1 compliant but it reads the PCM output fine. The only thing it can't do is read the DST encoded stream, but that isn't necessary since the PS3 decodes the DSD/DST internally.

So, if you just do the math...2,822,400 samples scaled down to 88,200 samples or even 176,400 samples just doesn't compare.

Quite true ... 2,822,400 samples/sec * 1 bit/sample = 2,822,400

(think of the 1/bit per sample as "each sample represents either the number 0 or the number 1")

... while 176,400 samples/sec * 24 bits/sample = 4,233,600

(think of the 24/bits per sample as "each sample represents any whole number between +8388608 and -8388608")

So "obviously, it stands to reason" that 2.8224 MHz 1 bit "just doesn't compare", the 176.4 kHz 24 bit "must" produce more realistic, detailed, accurate, holographic sound, why that's almost one and a half million extra bits every second, it boggles the mind! :p

Well actually, the superiority of 176.4 kHz 24 bit PCM to 2.8224 MHz 1 bit DSD (that I was just claiming, but not seriously) isn't obvious, because of subtleties in digital signal processing, A-to-D conversion, and D-to-A conversion, and so on. I think it's much more likely the case is that both digital sampling formats are essentially perfect, from point of view of audible effects.

I think it's important to always keep in mind that an audio recording/playback system is a long, complicated, multi-part chain, from the microphones in the recording studio, to the speakers in your listening room. But people often write as if you could "focus your ears" on one part of the recording/playback chain, just by thinking about it. Now that would be cool, wish it were possible!

Not true...all you need is a receiver that is HDMI 1.1 compliant. Assuming you set the PS3 HDMI's audio settings to output "PCM" rather than "Bitstream" you should get the 5.1 track. My Pioneer Elite VSX-74txvi is only HDMI 1.1 compliant but it reads the PCM output fine. The only thing it can't do is read the DST encoded stream, but that isn't necessary since the PS3 decodes the DSD/DST internally.

My apologies. I hate to give a wrong answer, but was sure that I was right. It's why I bought a 1.2 capable receiver.

To wrap my own head around this then, 1.2 will pass the DSD via HDMI without the need for conversion to PCM? Or does it always need to convert?

As you stated earlier, I would assume some loss in the conversion to PCM and would like to avoid that if possible.

HDMI 1.2 can carry raw DSD audio . HDMI 1.1 can't - it only carries raw PCM, or low-res compressed PCM bitstreams.

HDMI 1.3 can carry a DST bitstream - the compressed form of DSD, just like it can carry Dolby TrueHD - a compressed form of PCM. Both these facilities are basically pointless, as is most of HDMI 1.3.

For the PS3, all this is moot, because the PS3 can't output DSD - it appears to have no dedicated DSD paths, so DSD always gets converted to PCM anyway.

It's conceivable that the PS3 might be able to output the DST bitstream using HDMI 1.3, I suppose, but I'm not aware of any present or future receiver support for this.

How much better does SACD, played through the analog L/R outputs of the PS3, sound when compared to a regular CD? With a decent amp and speakers would the difference be noticeable?

It should be noticeable, with good enough equipment. Certainly there are plenty of people who believe 2-channel Super Audio CD is worthwhile. Even to the extent of many super-high-end SACD players being 2-channel only.

I don't have high end equipment (Paradigm reference studio 60s as mains and and B&W speakers as center and surrounds plus a velodyne sub), and I notice the difference between the SACD and CD layers, it is fuller and way more detailed.

I am using an Onkyo 604 via HDMI connected to the PS3, and it indicates the above stated levels in every case, I was wondering why it didn't correspond to the the ones specified in the discs, now I know.. thanks!

Is there any trick to getting multi-channel SACD working on the PS3?Make sure your video resolution is higher then 480P. HDMI allocates the audio bandwidth based on the video resolution with 480P there is only enough bandwidth allocated for two channels. It should work with HDMI 1.1 unless you have a cabling problem or a hardware issue with the Denon or PS3.

Not totally true. It's perfectly possible to carry high-res audio with standard-def video, but the source needs to increase pixel repetition (eg send every pixel 2 or 4 times). However, most sources are too lame to do this, and its possible many receivers and sinks are too lame to support it either.

I have the PS3 passing 1080p

Also, what are the recommended HDMI Audio settings... do you leave it on Auto so that the PS3 presumably picks the sample rates etc. that your receiver might play?

I set HDMI audio back to auto and can get multi-channel for Peter Gabriel's - UP... I'll have to back and see if Beck - Sea Changes and Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms tomorrow.

Can someone hear a SQ difference between the analog output from the PS3 and and the PCM playback thru HDMi to a receiver, for SACD ?

Can someone hear a SQ difference between the analog output from the PS3 and and the PCM playback thru HDMi to a receiver, for SACD ?

Well, for one...you can only get the 5.1 mix via HDMI.

If you're only concerned about the stereo mix...then it's a matter of which device has better digital-analog converters...the PS3 or the HDMI receiver. My money would be on the receiver.

Mine sounds great through the Onkyo 674...but to be fair, I've never even hooked up the analog cables to me PS3.

It has been mentioned by Sony engineers that the Sony currently only outputs SACD via DSD->PCM. My receiver (Sony STRDG1000) always reads the signal as 5.1 @ 176(.4)kHz PCM, but the original mix on the SACD is retained (i.e., 4.0 is still 4.0, 3.1 is still 3.1, etc). Whether a capability exists to upgrade via firmware to pure DSD via the HDMI 1.3 revision is unknown.

In regards to SACD playback, I thought there was a choice between "bitstream" DSD and onboarded converted PCM via HDMI. The option being for future bitstram/HDMI AVRs.
Can you remember the reference where they stated that there is only PCM output through HDMI
thanks

DSD isn't a "bitstream". It's a raw format like PCM. The "bitstream" output from an SACD would be DST.

Thanks KMO for your reply

So you have a choice (if hypothetically there was an HDMI AVR out there to convert DST bitstream) to output a DST bitstream or a Linear PCM through PS3's HDMI.


Although in regards to the Multi AV (analog) output. There is no straight DST to analog conversion? ie. The stereo DST signal is converted to PCM than to analog?
Apparently the stereo CD signal is only available through the Multi AV outlet.

If thats the case you will still enjoy the improved sonics (20/192) of SACD over conventional CD although the "the typical ringing effects of reconstruction filters used with PCM"# won't be eliminated. (I thought that was the major advantage of SACD over CD?)
#wiki..

Also, Can you use the (optional) remote to control SACD and CD playback via Multi AV outlet?

In regards to SACD playback, I thought there was a choice between "bitstream" DSD and onboarded converted PCM via HDMI... can you remember the reference where they stated that there is only PCM output through HDMI
thanks

Actually (taking note of the difference between DST - the "packed" or "lossless compressed" form in which the digital data is stored on the SACD; and DSD - the unpacked form in which the data can be sent over a digital connection to a receiver), that isn't a bad question. Sony doesn't provide much technical information about SACD digital outputs in the Playstation 3 online user guide. (That isn't surprising, since only a small fraction of Playstation 3 owners are interested in SACD.) The user guide states only "Audio from a Super Audio CD cannot be output from the digital out (optical) connector. Multi-channel content from Super Audio CDs can only be output from the HDMI OUT connector." (confirming what we already know)

http://www.us.playstation.com/content/sites/176/info/frame_hardware.html

The main reason we think we know that DSD cannot be output by the Playstation 3, at least with present-day firmware, is that several 2006 model receivers are described in the owner's manuals as capable of decoding DSD over HDMI 1.2 (or 1.2a) inputs. Users have connected a Playstation 3 to those receivers, put in a SACD, and observed that the receiver shows a multichannel PCM signal, but never a DSD signal, on the front panel display or OSD.

Further, some owners may have sent an inquiry to Sony tech support, similar to "I tried playing a SACD on my Playstation 3 connected to my HDMI 1.2 receiver. I can get multichannel PCM on the receiver, but not DSD; am I doing something wrong?" and gotten the response that their setup is fine, but the player cannot (at present) send DSD. (Have such communications with Sony been reported on these forums? I'm not sure.)

Finally, a bit of idle speculation about why DSD cannot (yet) be output by the Playstation 3. One of the selling points of SACD - not to consumers, but to record companies - is the strong, allegedly "hacker proof" copy protection. Therefore, before Sony will "sign off" on sending DSD over a new digital interface, they need to spend some time and effort in torture testing the copy protection ("could I break it if I think like a hacker?"). There is an example to support this speculation. Denon provides a proprietary digital audio interface on some of its gear, called DenonLink. SACD was the last format to be added to DenonLink, with version 3 in 2005 or 2006.

Can someone hear a SQ difference between the analog output from the PS3 and and the PCM playback thru HDMi to a receiver, for SACD ?

PS3-HDMI-RXV2700(HMDI 1.2a) with Paradigm Reference and dedicated monoblock amps with biwired front stage. DPLIIEX-ed of course.

I am falling in love all over again with my 6 channel SACD, love it, love it, love it. Sound sweet as honey. YPAO sure helps (Yammy's 28 band parametric EQ autocalibration).

Needless to say it took me one Mozart piano concerto audition only to remove all my SACDs from the Escient/DVPCX ES carousel combo.

Correct. I shoukd have pointed that out, and I figured that HDMI 1.3 included the features of previous revisions. Which brings us to...

True. In fact several of the PS3's processors are used for both DST->DSD and DSD->PCM. Here's the SACD portion of an interview with the PS3 team:


I've bolded portions that seemed the most audiophile-centric, if they have any useful info for KMO or others. I can't personally comment on any difference between SQ between v1.10 (factory) and v1.31 (current) firmwares, as I ddin't get an HDMI-capable receiver until right after v1.30 (the December update mentioned in the interview).
Can the PS3 output 176.4 Khz multi-channel for SACD/DSD converted to PCM?
I "only" get 88.2KHz.

Yes it can, from accounts I've heard. But many receivers can't accept it, in which case it will fall back to 88.2kHz.

Is there anything new using updated firmwares regarding SACD output using the optical pathway? I wouldn't expect a full quality signal, but anything above the CD quality 2-channel 44.1kHz 16-bit PCM or at least that level.

I just got the Ziggy Stardust SACD, came home and popped it into my PS3, which is connected via HDMI to my Onkyo 674. I only got 2-channel sound, and my receiver was reading the multichannel mix as stereo/176 khz.

After about 30 minutes of fiddling (and swearing), I finally got it to work by manually setting the maximum audio output at 5.1/88.2 khz--it doesn't matter whether PCM or bitstream is selected--both work.

Does anyone know why this is, and if there's a way I can get multichannel playback without jumping through all these hoops? I guess it's not that big of a deal, but it is annoying.

hello all,
I am curious about the ps3 SACD playback also. I know it converts the high res signal to pcm then sends it over HDMI, but if one is to use the optical out or analog outs, will I get anything other than the standard CD layer? I ask because my ps3 gets moved from one room to the next and only 1 out of the 2 recievers has HDMI inputs.

Thanks,
Brandon

I just got my PS3 today, and can now "retire" my Sony SCD-CE775. So as I understand it, currently, the PS3 still only outputs the multichannel audio as PCM (no DSD or DST output). Is there speculation that this will be added at some point, or have most people abandoned hope for this? Also, another issue that I had with my SCD-CE775 was bass management. Do most of the new receivers that accept LPCM via HDMI allow for bass management with this type of signal?

hello all,
I am curious about the ps3 SACD playback also. I know it converts the high res signal to pcm then sends it over HDMI, but if one is to use the optical out or analog outs, will I get anything other than the standard CD layer? I ask because my ps3 gets moved from one room to the next and only 1 out of the 2 recievers has HDMI inputs.

Thanks,
Brandon

Yes, analog audio out only will give you SACD 2-channel sound (and one of the best sounding, as well). The PS3 does not have outputs for analog audio multi-channel SACD audio.

I just got my PS3 today, and can now "retire" my Sony SCD-CE775. So as I understand it, currently, the PS3 still only outputs the multichannel audio as PCM (no DSD or DST output). Is there speculation that this will be added at some point, or have most people abandoned hope for this? Also, another issue that I had with my SCD-CE775 was bass management. Do most of the new receivers that accept LPCM via HDMI allow for bass management with this type of signal?
DSD output from the PS3 is still an unknown. Bass Managment for HDMI AVR's Yes some have problems with BM via HDMI. Check out the future proof AVR thread in the AVR section. I personally have an Onkyo 804 and it does BM via HDMI just fine. Or I can go to pure audio mode and hear the source as it was recorded with no processing, or Bass Managment

DSD output from the PS3 is still an unknown. Bass Managment for HDMI AVR's Yes some have problems with BM via HDMI. Check out the future proof AVR thread in the AVR section. I personally have an Onkyo 804 and it does BM via HDMI just fine. Or I can go to pure audio mode and hear the source as it was recorded with no processing, or Bass Managment

I would expect then, that since I have an Onkyo 875 I should be ok with the bass management.. Thanks for your help!

Yes, analog audio out only will give you SACD 2-channel sound (and one of the best sounding, as well). The PS3 does not have outputs for analog audio multi-channel SACD audio.


I imagine that particular 2 channel analog cable was the "goofy" looking one that came in the ps3 box. Why do they have to make designs of their own:(

Anyway, I will try the 2 channel outs and see how SACD sounds and report back.

Thanks again,
Brandon

The main reason we think we know that DSD cannot be output by the Playstation 3, at least with present-day firmware, is that several 2006 model receivers are described in the owner's manuals as capable of decoding DSD over HDMI 1.2 (or 1.2a) inputs.

True, but none of those receivers were Sony's. That may be another reason why they've held out with DSD output via HDMI. In more than one way even:
- they may have felt adding this feature would drive people into their competitors' arms
- they may have wanted to make sure PS3 and their future AV receivers work together perfectly smooth in this respect.

Anyway, Sony has this month finally announced their first receiver with DSD input via HDMI, the STR-DA5300ES.


Is there speculation that this will be added at some point, or have most people abandoned hope for this?

There definitely is. For that and more stuff about PS3's SACD capabilities, have a look at this dedicated FAQ: http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html

I imagine that particular 2 channel analog cable was the "goofy" looking one that came in the ps3 box. Why do they have to make designs of their own:(



I know what you mean..but in this case this "goofy" cable goes all the way back to the original PS-1. The Multi A/V connector on the PS3 is the same one found on the PS1..and PS2. PS1 was long before High Def, and the Multi A/V connector has grown with the times, from composite video to include "S" video and Component. Sony didnt bother reinventing the wheel with this cable. Instead they went with HDMI, and hoped that consumers would buy a new AVR...one of the Sony brands would really make them happy..LOL:D

Yes, analog audio out only will give you SACD 2-channel sound (and one of the best sounding, as well). The PS3 does not have outputs for analog audio multi-channel SACD audio.


I have not received my 1st SACD yet but my last question is can the analog cable from the ps3 be connected to any analog inputs on the receiver or does it have to go into the MaIN L & R of those pesky 5.1 analog ins for external decoders like my DVD-audio player uses?

I ask because my yamaha receiver has front analog L&R inputs that might work for the ps3 and 2 channel SACD.

Brandon

Any analog in, on your AVR will work. It's as if the PS3 is just any old regular CD player with Stereo outputs...left and right channels. As far as the AVR is concerened

I figured, thanks though!

Brandon

Any analog in, on your AVR will work. It's as if the PS3 is just any old regular CD player with Stereo outputs...left and right channels. As far as the AVR is concerened

This may work fine as long as you play CDs or the stereo track of SACDs. It goes wrong when you play the multichannel tracks of an SACD: You don't get a downmix (that's "not done" with SACD) so you just miss 4 of the 6 channels!

This may work fine as long as you play CDs or the stereo track of SACDs. It goes wrong when you play the multichannel tracks of an SACD: You don't get a downmix (that's "not done" with SACD) so you just miss 4 of the 6 channels!
merrymaid520 asked about passing 2-channel SACDs via the L/R analog outputs.

This may work fine as long as you play CDs or the stereo track of SACDs. It goes wrong when you play the multichannel tracks of an SACD: You don't get a downmix (that's "not done" with SACD) so you just miss 4 of the 6 channels!

I agree with you there..Kind of hard to get true Multichannel out of Stereo RCA

The ONLY way to get MultiCh out of the PS3 is HDMI into a AVR.

Yup, I am only looking to play the 2-ch mix of the SACD out of the ps3. For that, the analog outs should work just fine as mentioned above. Still waiting on Dire straits BIA to demo it:)

Brandon

This may work fine as long as you play CDs or the stereo track of SACDs. It goes wrong when you play the multichannel tracks of an SACD: You don't get a downmix (that's "not done" with SACD) so you just miss 4 of the 6 channels!

I'm listening to Diana Krall's "The Girl in the Other Room" via the mutil channel track and it sounds fine. [This is using the two channel analog outputs.] I would think that the vocal would be on the center channel in a multi channel mix and therefore missing if I was only getting two channels of the six channels.

By the way, the first track on the multi channel track has an intro that is two bars longer than the two channel. Odd eh?

because I use a PS3 for BluRay and SACD, my understanding is that with multichannel SACDs on the PS3, you have to uncheck anything above 88.2khz (I think) on all audio configs (2.1, 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1) in order to get sound out of the rear speakers, does this mean I lose sound quality at higher levels on BR movies also (i.e 192khz, etc.)? Lighteningcandy alluded to this too, but I'm pretty sure it's not because my receiver (Onkyo SR-805) can't handle above that, correct?

Not sure if it's true or not, this site (http://avzombie.com/blog/2007/10/09/stripped-down-ps3-to-invade-us/) reports that the 40GB PS3 won't support SACD.

...The model, which has a 40GB drive, no backwards compatibility with PS2 games (although PSOne games play) and no support for Super Audio CD...

because I use a PS3 for BluRay and SACD, my understanding is that with multichannel SACDs on the PS3, you have to uncheck anything above 88.2khz (I think) on all audio configs (2.1, 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1) in order to get sound out of the rear speakers, does this mean I lose sound quality at higher levels on BR movies also (i.e 192khz, etc.)? Lighteningcandy alluded to this too, but I'm pretty sure it's not because my receiver (Onkyo SR-805) can't handle above that, correct?

I dont think thats true. One 805 owner has reported that he gets 176.4 from Multich SACD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=778773
Post # 20 and 21So you should be fine leaving all of them checked, and the PS3 will play the 176.4 for SACD, and when you pop in a BD if your AVR supports 192, you should get that too.

Not sure if it's true or not, this site (http://avzombie.com/blog/2007/10/09/stripped-down-ps3-to-invade-us/) reports that the 40GB PS3 won't support SACD.

Now that is interesting. I wonder why they would cut that out, It's not as though the R&D hasnt been done, and the SACD requires special Hardware that they cut out. I'll wait until after it's launched to see if I'll get me a second PS3..or at least THAT model.

I have a PS3 and a Elite 92 and am only getting 88 from my SACD. I have the PS3 to send PCM and all the sound options checked. Is there anything I am missing to get 176khz?

I have a PS3 and a Elite 92 and am only getting 88 from my SACD. I have the PS3 to send PCM and all the sound options checked. Is there anything I am missing to get 176khz?

Is this 2ch or multi? If it's multi I'd venture a guess that the Pio doesnt support 176.4k for Multich. If you are only getting 88.2 in stereo SACD then I'd still say it's the Pio, but I couldnt tell you why you wouldnt be getting 176.4 in 2ch. My Onky 804 does 176.4 2ch an 88.2 multi (it doesnt support 176.4 multich.)

The receiver says PCM 88 for both 2 channel and multi.

The 92 uses 24/192 DAC's, so that's a little strange.
You should be able to get 24/176.4 multi-channel with that receiver.
Have you contacted Pioneer's customer service - they're normally pretty easy to get through to.

I am in email contact with them to get it sorted...no luck at all. They are currently sending the question off to their engineers.

I'm listening to Diana Krall's "The Girl in the Other Room" via the mutil channel track and it sounds fine. [This is using the two channel analog outputs.] I would think that the vocal would be on the center channel in a multi channel mix and therefore missing if I was only getting two channels of the six channels.

Not necessarily. It's all up to the producers making the mix. There are many examples of SACDs with the vocals in the center channel but also many with the vocals in the left and/or right channel.

Now that is interesting. I wonder why they would cut that out, It's not as though the R&D hasnt been done, and the SACD requires special Hardware that they cut out.

Actually, there probably is. See http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html#_Toc180147568

Just to update I got the fix from Pioneer:

"The PCM signal which is over 88kHz will be converted to 88.2kHz when the
listening mode is "AUTO SURROUND" or "DIRECT" due to capacity of memory for DSP.
If you set to "PURE DIRECT", the unit will be output with real frequency.
In this case, MCACC and PHASE CONTROL are disabled."

OK I just bought my first SACD to play in my PS3 which is hooked up to a my new Rotel RSP 1069 by HDMI. The error I am getting is "playback of this disc using the connected device is prohibited."


My rotel is has HDMI 1.1 and is supposed to be HDCP compliant.


any thoughts or suggestions?

****update. PS3 Support said its one of two things either a bad cable (so I switched it) or the disc itself was not made properly. I tried two different discs and both came with the ame error. She said a lot of SACDs dont work in the PS3....can anyone confirm this?

I tried Diana Krall and Nora Jones.

OK I just bought my first SACD to play in my PS3 which is hooked up to a my new Rotel RSP 1069 by HDMI. The error I am getting is "playback of this disc using the connected device is prohibited."


My rotel is has HDMI 1.1 and is supposed to be HDCP compliant.


any thoughts or suggestions?

****update. PS3 Support said its one of two things either a bad cable (so I switched it) or the disc itself was not made properly. I tried two different discs and both came with the ame error. She said a lot of SACDs dont work in the PS3....can anyone confirm this?

I tried Diana Krall and Nora Jones.

I have Nora Jones (Come away with me) on SACD and it works just fine in my PS3/Onkyo 804. You should try going into the audio settings and making sure you have the following outputs checked. 176.2 (2ch) and 88.4 (5ch) Your Rotel should support either one (if not both of these) for SACD. Pop in Norah and try the 2 Ch layer first. You could also try to do the auto config in the sound menu, but if that doesnt work, do the manual settings.

I have Nora Jones (Come away with me) on SACD and it works just fine in my PS3/Onkyo 804. You should try going into the audio settings and making sure you have the following outputs checked. 176.2 (2ch) and 88.4 (5ch) Your Rotel should support either one (if not both of these) for SACD. Pop in Norah and try the 2 Ch layer first. You could also try to do the auto config in the sound menu, but if that doesnt work, do the manual settings.


thats for the reply, but I still get the same error message. I am beggining to think my Rotel RSP 1069 processor is tricking my PS3 into thinking its a recording device. Strange thing is I get multi channel audio from BD no problem.

Have you retried the audio setup on the PS3? I had to go through setup again for some reason after I moved.

Just to update I got the fix from Pioneer:

"The PCM signal which is over 88kHz will be converted to 88.2kHz when the
listening mode is "AUTO SURROUND" or "DIRECT" due to capacity of memory for DSP.
If you set to "PURE DIRECT", the unit will be output with real frequency.
In this case, MCACC and PHASE CONTROL are disabled."
I'm glad you asked that. I have the 81, and never much thought about why it dropped down on resolution for multichannel, when it shows multichannel high frequency as supported. I'll have to experiment now.

Not nuts about losing all the management though, but maybe for music it'll be OK.

On the plus side, it's nice to know that if movies ever start using 88kHz sampling frequency (which would be nice, since they keep promoting HD audio, when it's not as high res as SACD or DVD Audio) we'll still be good to go with these receivers.

So, if you don't have HDMI you are stuck with composite analog???