Sherwood Newcastle R-872 & R-972 HDMI 1.3 receivers [Text View] - Page 2

Stereojeff

07-31-07, 08:39 AM

HiHoStevo

07-31-07, 05:32 PM

Thank you all for the input. I appreciate it.

The R-872 is on schedule for September production. The R-972 will probably not make it to market until January, 2008. It will be more powerful than the current spec of 100 x 7. We expect to introduce the P-973 at CES 2008 for shipment in March, 2008.

Please do not bug me for details on the pre/pro. I will only say that most of you will be very happy with the feature set.

We will introduce piano black end caps and rack mount adapters for all current (and future) Newcastle models at CEDIA.

We are still evaluating color options. For CEDIA Newcastle will continue in titanium, only.

Best regards,

Jeff

Thank you Jeff for this update......

Although I am a bit disappointed the 972 has slipped until next year... wah... didn't the 972 originally have 6 HDMI inputs?

Can you share with us "which" scaler/de-interlacing chip you are using in the 872 and 972?

thank you so much for your assistance

DonoMan

07-31-07, 05:47 PM

If there's going to be only one color, it should always be black.

Quoted For Truth

henningh

08-07-07, 01:57 PM

I'm really looking forward to the pre/pro version as well. I was looking at the Integra DTC-9.8, but man that thing is ugly! And big! And I'm disappointed that it won't be able to scale ALL inputs resolutions to an arbitrary output resolution. For me, I'll have some 1080p sources but my display is native 1080i, so...

As well, is there any way we can get more than just two coax digital inputs?

The HDMI to analog conversion sounds quite interesting. What'll you do with copy-protected content? Add Macrovision?

What will the AV output be for the zones? Please tell me that at least Zone 2 will have HD-capable component! That HDMI to analog conversion would come in quite handy then...

To be honest, I don't care about RF remote control. I'll just be programming my universal/learning remote with the codes anyway. Please take that feature out and decrease the price! :)

Will the pre/pro version have more than one trigger? It's really needed for all the zones. I hope you're looking closely at the Integra DTC-9.8. It has a nice feature set.

And last: thanks for keeping us all updated. This is great that you're sharing this info with us, Stereojeff.

henning

PS: Black

DonoMan

08-07-07, 02:29 PM

Ahhhhh...good point. Black would go great with my Cinenova though. :p

And black would mean that I might buy it.

henningh

08-07-07, 04:02 PM

Oh, and I definitely hope that the Sherwood Newcastle receivers and pre/pro don't have the 4:3 -> 16:9 problem the new Onkyo's have.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11180490&&#post11180490

This is just another problem that's killed the Onkyo for me.

henning

John Clark

08-09-07, 10:58 PM

Okay, so I've read through the entire thread. There are whispered mentions of a pre-pro for this series, but nothing remotely definitive. Does anyone really know anything specific in this regard? I have a friend who is in the market, and already owns all the quality amplifiers that he needs, but a pre-pro in this series might be worth exploring as a means of acquiring HDMI 1.3, HDMI switching, lossless audio handling, etc..

Also, would it be available this year?

John

jdskycaster

08-09-07, 11:30 PM

The word is there will be a pre/pro but we will not see it until sometime next year.

JD

FreddyW

08-15-07, 04:40 PM

Thank you all for the input. I appreciate it.

The R-872 is on schedule for September production. The R-972 will probably not make it to market until January, 2008. It will be more powerful than the current spec of 100 x 7. We expect to introduce the P-973 at CES 2008 for shipment in March, 2008.

Please do not bug me for details on the pre/pro. I will only say that most of you will be very happy with the feature set.

We will introduce piano black end caps and rack mount adapters for all current (and future) Newcastle models at CEDIA.

We are still evaluating color options. For CEDIA Newcastle will continue in titanium, only.

Best regards,

Jeff

Too bad about the R-972 being next year. That delay may have to cross it off my list. It's realistically 5 months away.

Livin

08-15-07, 05:21 PM

Sherwood should write a book on two things...

"How to have a good product and still have no one really know who you are"

"How to bring good products to market too late to actually get decent market share" (aka "How to lose to your competitors without trying")

If the pre/pro would have been out soon I'd have considered it but I'm not waiting 5 months "just in case" the Sherwood is better.

Stereojeff

08-15-07, 07:17 PM

Gary Murrell

08-15-07, 07:29 PM

sounds good Jeff :)

can't wait for the P-973 details, I am a Sherwood fan for life over the P-965 and the service I received with it both in my room and from you guys ;)

-Gary

FreddyW

08-16-07, 09:15 AM

Book titles noted.

However, I do think the Trinnov Optimizer will be worth the wait. If you haven't read Dr. David Rich's review of their professional version published in the Sensible Sound, I think it would be worth tracking down. Today it takes $13k to get Trinnov. Early next year it will come in a receiver or a pre/pro for under $2k.

Jeff

Perhaps. But, I sold my P-965 and amps recently. Separates, while sexy & nice for bragging rights, just run too darn hot. They raised the temperature in the room rather severely. You could fry an egg on those amps. They also took up too much space in my media table. My room is 18 x 13, no need for that kind of juice. So the great separates experiment is over. I also felt it was prudent to move the P-965 before the new units came out and the resale value dropped as "old tech," whether that is a valid perception or not.

I greatly enjoyed the P-965. The biggest nitpicks I had were with the auto-detect circuit.

i.e.- It ALWAYS defaulted to Dolby Digital EX on any dolby soundtrack. And it could never detect DTS if you switched it in the DVD menu. You had to force it into that mode. Granted, these certainly weren't showstoppers, but they were niggling little things that never went away.

However, I felt that for a pre/pro, it delivered extraordinary bang-for-the-buck. The resale value certainly reflected that fact.

I would certainly not hesitate to jump back on the Sherwood Newcastle bandwagon. But I must say that it is very disappointing that a unit (the R-972) which was displayed CES in January 2007, and vaguely promised in the late summer of 2007, is now being pushed to a MANUFACTURING date of January 2008. Or, CES 2008, as it were.

I wouldn't mind waiting until, say, October. But, I'm a huge baseball fan, and there goes October with a January release. And forget about the meat of football season. Heck, I even like some network TV shows (not a dealbreaker, though!). I have a projector setup in my media room. Which means without some sort of AVR, there is no sound. Well, except for the Pioneer headphones I bought. But that doesn't make it much fun for the wife, kids, and any friends we have over.

I'm in the manufacturing business, and I deal with a lot of high tech companies. So I understand production delays related to component issues, fabrication issues, or even cost issues. But that doesn't mean that I'm not still disappointed and vaguely put-off by the delay here.

Caveat- I do realize that Jeff is under no obligation to post here on a public forum regarding his company's plans or issues. But he has chosen to do so. And while as a customer I do respect and appreciate thechoice he has made, I also wish that the information he is supplied with by the corporate parent was accordingly a bit more accurate, or at least forthcoming.

Regards,
Fred

noah katz

08-16-07, 11:33 AM

QuadESL63

08-16-07, 12:12 PM

Too bad the pre/pro will not be here soon... I just want to get one to augment my existing setup for all the HDMI 1.1/1.3 sources that I have now instead of getting a A/V receiver that I'm not going to use the internal amp for.

Stereojeff

08-16-07, 12:26 PM

Noah:

I don't want to reveal too much at this time as other manufacturers read this forum, also. In actual use, I expect the only significant difference will be in the number of channels that can be processed. We will, of course, process 7.1 channels. As I recall their professional version can process over 10. There are other differences with respect to balanced outputs, professional levels and choice of input boards that won't impact our users.

Jeff

price3

08-16-07, 01:15 PM

Can anyone give a review about how well the SNAP eq system works? The 872 looks like it has everything I want. I dont care about video processing at all, as long as it passes through every resolution available (1080p 60 and 24). I dont even care about component to HDMI transcoding.
If I were just trying to trim features you could cut out zone 2 and 3 and the learning remote.

cschang

08-16-07, 01:23 PM

i.e.- It ALWAYS defaulted to Dolby Digital EX on any dolby soundtrack. And it could never detect DTS if you switched it in the DVD menu. You had to force it into that mode. Granted, these certainly weren't showstoppers, but they were niggling little things that never went away.

Fred....I don't my unit displays these problems. It detects DTS fine...I know that for sure. I will check on the DD-EX...but I am pretty sure it is a non-issue for me.

That said, I have been very happy with my P-965 and the support I have received when needed(very little).

I am holding off on purchasing a new pre/pro at the moment, and look forward to the new pre/pro...definitely on my radar as is the new Integra unit.

FreddyW

08-16-07, 02:42 PM

Fred....I don't my unit displays these problems. It detects DTS fine...I know that for sure. I will check on the DD-EX...but I am pretty sure it is a non-issue for me.

That said, I have been very happy with my P-965 and the support I have received when needed(very little).

I am holding off on purchasing a new pre/pro at the moment, and look forward to the new pre/pro...definitely on my radar as is the new Integra unit.

The DTS wasn't as big a deal, as it was only for DVDs. I have a Denon DV-1600 player, maybe it was there. But the Dolby EX issue cropped up on DVDs, Comcast STB, and Xbox360. Sometimes it would throw up Dolby Prologic IIx Music as well. Very strange.

Like I said, it wasn't as much of a "problem" as it was just a minor annoyance. Certainly not a dealbreaker by any means.

Desmo888

08-16-07, 02:58 PM

Perhaps. But, I sold my P-965 and amps recently. Separates, while sexy & nice for bragging rights, just run too darn hot. They raised the temperature in the room rather severely. You could fry an egg on those amps.

I have not had this experience with my pre/pro or amplifier. My are super cool all the time. Of course, living here in the swamp of New Orleans might mean that my definition of cool and your definition are total different.

Besides, I prefer to poach my eggs and this amp will not do that! :D

dsmith901

08-16-07, 03:25 PM

My A-965 never seems to get more than moderately warm; however I must confess I am only using 3 channels, so that may make a difference.

I also had the P-965 but did not like it as much as others here, both from a sound standpoint and from usability - the remote was a PITA for me - I like being able to do everything by pushing a button and not scrolling through menus trying to find where the hell that sound format is I want now. So Jeff, take a clue from Harman Kardon and Panasonic - they make great user-friendly remotes.

FreddyW

08-16-07, 04:20 PM

My amps were

Parasound HCA-2205A 5-channel
Parasound HCA-1000A 2-channel

Very nice, efficient units- in my vast research the best performing amps for the buck by far. Drove Paradigm Studio 100's/cc-450/studio ADP/Studio 20's for 7.1. But I got rid of my rack and had them in what is basically a plasma TV stand (holds 6 component unit from Ethan Allen). The rack was sold because I put a screen and projector and needed the space.

While I removed the back of the unit where the amps were (behind glass) and put a fan to draw it out, they still ran hot. I had nowhere to vent the hot air except into the room. Ergo, the temperature raised. My media room is 18 x 13 x 8 and can be totally closed off from the rest of the house. So, even with AC, it can get warm. Not an issue in the winter, but a bit more in the summer. The house AC thermostat is in that room, so, imagine the difficulty balancing the temp. And the projector on the ceiling isn't exactly cool, either. :)

I'm not knocking separates, but, for the cost and the performance, and the issues that arose for ME personally, they ceased to be worth it. I gave it a few years, so it wasn't a kneejerk reaction.

I helped my brother-in-law with a little home theater set-up a few months ago, with a Denon 3806. While he was drilling holes over his crawlspace to run wires, I borrowed the Denon for a weekend to play around with it. The sound quality was pretty much identical as the set-up I currently had, or at least close enough that I couldn't tell a huge difference. I do know how to run and setup manually as well as through automatic setup. I also have room treatments all over- bass traps, mid-high reflection traps. And, I have an SMS-1, which I also ran.

I'm of a mind, moreso as I've gotten older and more experienced, that the real determination of sound quality is first and foremost speakers and listening environment. Then the AVR or pre/pro. Amps are way down on that list because, let's face it, they simply supply electriciy and all you want is a clean, steady supply of juice.

So, when I weighed all of the above over the past couple months, I determined the best course for me was to return to the AVR world. The fact that there are so many new features now (namely, HDMI switching, pass through, or scaling) was the deciding vote.

So now I sit, in silence, debating what to replace the P-965 with. Denon 3808/4308? Onkyo 805/875? I had CERTAINLY hoped that the R-972 woudl be available for a comparsion, because that woudl have been at the top of my list for sure. But now I have to wait an (estimated, perhaps more than) 5 months? That is very disappointing, given what the public was shown at CES 2007.

Hey, the fact that you are on this forum means you all, like me, are an enthusist, and "Early adoptor." But you need to temper that with a reality check once in awhile. I will wait a month or so, and look for reviews, subjective AND objective, of some of the new AVR's. I will not spend over $2500, and that may lower to $2000, to be honest. But sometime, certainly sooner than 5 months, I will commit to a new AVR, and that will be used for several years.

Could you wait?

QZ1

08-18-07, 08:51 PM

stereojeff,

Do you have any more information and/or a photo of the new brand/model RF/IR remote for the R-872?

dlfromcanada

08-19-07, 12:22 AM

muzz

08-19-07, 12:04 PM

I just put the Eagles farewell tour on to see if it did what I asked(I have the Boston AVP7).
I told it DTS 5.1 in DVD Audio Menu(in Auto mode on AVP7), and it went directly to DTS without issue(it usually says DD because most stuff is DD).

So it seems to be working here.

riverwolf

08-19-07, 12:16 PM

Livin you're absolutely right

weren't these guys the only ones at CES sporting HDMI 1.3? I remember everyone saying how they would buy one if they beat the other big boys to the table and complaining how nobody else was showing HDMI 1.3

Fast forward 6 months and it's all vaporware while everyone else is coming out with their next gen receivers

it's a shame, especially if it's a good product but I really dislike vaporware promoting companies so ultimately I 'm glad Onko and Denon are leaving them in the dust

I'll throw in my .02.

Who do you think is building those next gen receivers? S-N is simply a brand name owned by Etronics, the OEM that actually designs and/or builds a lot of the receivers on the market. I think they're market share by units built was 30%+ at one point.

All manufacturers have a finite capacity. Most likely, Etronics choice is either build S-N products or satisfy the higher volume/profit OEM customers. This isn't even touching on the potential problem of competing with your OEM customers at retail when you have a clear price advantage by being essentialy factory direct.

The end user price for S-N quality/performance at a relative discount compared to other brands seems to be waiting until the OEM's contracts are satisfied first. Since I'm still happily using an AVP-9080 from 1999, I don't see that as such a bad thing. :)

-Brent

noah katz

08-19-07, 03:14 PM

Jeff,

Thanks for that info, sounds very promising.

Perhaps you cannot say (though I don't see how what another mfgr reads here could affect their plans unless the S-N products are far from being released), but a couple of more questions after visiting the Trinnov site:

It says "stores multiple presets for different listening positions, loudspeaker layouts or target curves"; will the S-N's have multiple memories, and if so, how many?

Also I'm concerned about the emphasis on professional use, where the recording engineer sits immobile at one location.They say nothing about a listening area for multiple listeners vs. correction for a single listening position; do you know if the setup process uses more than mike position?

Either way, have you heard the Trinnov and did you notice how sensitive it was to position?

Thanks

Stereojeff

08-20-07, 01:26 PM

Noah:

If we get everything we've requested, there will be no memory limitations.

There will be some positional sensitivity, but Trinnov locates the speakers in 3 dimensions and addresses limitations that other systems cannot.

I'm sorry that I cannot release more at this time.

Jeff

Majestyk

08-20-07, 01:55 PM

Separates, while sexy & nice for bragging rights, just run too darn hot. They raised the temperature in the room rather severely.

I've never heard anyone gripe about seperates because they run too hot. :) That being said, I used to own two 2 and 3 channel Parasound amps and they did run pretty warm. I got sick of using two seperate amps so I got a Sherwood AM-9080, which runs almost half as warm. It also sounds better too...Yes I like the Sherwood over the Parasounds.

M

fresno1232001

08-24-07, 04:34 PM

If you are going to speak English, why don't you learn how to do it right? It's "If the pre-pro had been out sooner...". If it HAD BEEN out!!!!!! It's "I would have gone to the store if I had known you were coming for dinner". NOT "I would have gone to the store if I would have known you were coming". Geez, you just slaughter the English language and hurt yourself massively when you do.

Sherwood should write a book on two things...

"How to have a good product and still have no one really know who you are"

"How to bring good products to market too late to actually get decent market share" (aka "How to lose to your competitors without trying")

If the pre/pro would have been out soon I'd have considered it but I'm not waiting 5 months "just in case" the Sherwood is better.

Majestyk

08-29-07, 12:29 PM

I would have gone to the store, if it meant not reading Fresno's unnecessary ranting; regarding someone’s post.

This isn't an exercise in the English language. We are talking about home theater.

M

fresno1232001

08-29-07, 04:23 PM

Jeff- You are fortunate in that a major competitor has a great scaler and a butt ugly receiver to house it. I like your platinum face plate and the blue display. I don't have a huge house and everything in it should look good. My receiver stares at me from my Bello rack. I have now, and have had for 31 years, the great looking Tandberg 2075 receiver, one of the great pieces of industrial design. Your styling may just make the sale in my case. That major competitor of yours has his receivers out now AND they are just shot through with firmware upgrades. I hate that. Hope the 972 comes out not needing a bunch.
Noah:

If we get everything we've requested, there will be no memory limitations.

There will be some positional sensitivity, but Trinnov locates the speakers in 3 dimensions and addresses limitations that other systems cannot.

I'm sorry that I cannot release more at this time.

Jeff

Desmo888

08-29-07, 10:29 PM

Geez, you just slaughter the English language and hurt yourself massively when you do.

Sometimes one forgets one's own admonishments when being arrogant.

krholmberg

09-04-07, 03:23 PM

If you are going to speak English, why don't you learn how to do it right?

Not everyone is as well versed as you. I get annoyed at times, too, but more by immature kids than adults. In the end, who cares? Your soap box isn't needed.

cybrsage

09-04-07, 04:48 PM

If you are going to speak English, why don't you learn how to do it right? It's "If the pre-pro had been out sooner...". If it HAD BEEN out!!!!!! It's "I would have gone to the store if I had known you were coming for dinner". NOT "I would have gone to the store if I would have known you were coming". Geez, you just slaughter the English language and hurt yourself massively when you do.

Grammar Nazi Alert!!!

-5 "cool" points deducted.

An additional -5 "cool" points for using too many explaination points at the end of a sentence, as well as using a period in the center of a sentence. Please learn punctuation prior to attacking someone for their grammar.

cybrsage

09-05-07, 12:06 PM

Any new info on these AVRs? So far, they seem to hit my purchase time frame perfectly.

fresno1232001

09-05-07, 04:45 PM

The brand with the great upscaler-de-interlacer looks pretty plain. The S/Ns look better, with their cool blue display, and that alone may cause me to go with S/N. I'll have whatever I buy for at least 15 years, so I want it to look good.
S/N must have a reason for this 5 month delay. I think they are reacting to their competitors offerings, coming out now, and upgrading to be more competitive. That should make S/N units worth the wait. I sure hope they don't require a bunch of firmware upgrades when they do come out. To haul a 54 lb. unit out of my rack, after undoing all the connections, hauling it into my computer room to do the upgrades, and re-installing it seems like a HUGE PITA.
Any new info on these AVRs? So far, they seem to hit my purchase time frame perfectly.

noah katz

09-05-07, 11:16 PM

"hauling it into my computer room to do the upgrades"

Why not leave the receiver where it is and get a long cable?

cybrsage

09-06-07, 04:54 PM

"hauling it into my computer room to do the upgrades"

Why not leave the receiver where it is and get a long cable?

Agreed. For as infrequently as it would be needed, just buy a 50 or 100 foot cable (whatever length is needed) and lay a temp line down.

rushisrighton

09-06-07, 07:27 PM

I can't seem to find a FULL SIZE pic of the new receiver, does anyone have a link to one?

Also what is outlaw audio's relation to S/N? Will the same features be on an outlaw pre/pro, or will they be completely different - and which would be better?

Sorry for all of the questions, they are just a few random thoughts I was wondering about.

gonk

09-06-07, 10:30 PM

Here is a picture from CEDIA (http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2007/090607Newcastle/) of the R-972.

Outlaw Audio has so far offered one product that was manufactured by Etronics (S/N's parent company). That is the Model 990, based on Sherwood's R-965/P-965 platform. Other Outlaw processors and receivers (Model 950, 970, 1050, and 1070) have been developed from the ground up by Outlaw in conjunction with Eastech, who handled manufacturing for those products. So far, all that Outlaw has said is that they are working on new products that will incorporate HDMI. Whether those will be manufactured by Eastech, Etronics, or someone else is not yet known. If they were to use Etronics to manufacture something new, I would tend to expect it to be based on one of these new platforms, but I'm afraid that's not real enlightening. As for which would be better, I'd suspect that Outlaw would aim for a lower price (due to their distribution model) and might make some changes to feature set (similar to the addition of balanced outputs and DVI switching on the Model 990), but I'd also suspect very minimal sound quality differences between the two if they use the same platform. Bottom line: we don't know anything at the moment. :)

riverwolf

09-06-07, 10:35 PM

Also what is outlaw audio's relation to S/N? Will the same features be on an outlaw pre/pro, or will they be completely different - and which would be better?

Search would probably turn up most/all of what I'm about to type.

There is no direct relationship between S-N and Outlaw, that I know of. S-N is a brand name/subsidiary owned by Etronics. Etronics is the OEM for many brands, including Outlaw's 990. The 990 and the P-965 share a basic platform, but by comparing features, it's obvious there are also customizations for Outlaw. Boston Acoustics, on the other hand, sold what was essentially a black P-965 at one time, before discontinuing it. Only you can decide which brand's feature implementation is best for you.

Outlaw doesn't use Etronics exclusively. The 950 was OEM'd from EastTech, as I believe is the 970. Not sure about the receivers, but the 1070 appears to be a 970 with amps. Incidentally, Sherborn and Atlantic Technology sold nearly identical versions of the 950.

-Brent

rushisrighton

09-06-07, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the pick gonk, that one is better than most that I've seen. I like the looks of the s/n, retro and modern at the same time. It may be wishfull thinking but I hope outlaw spices up their look a little on their next processor. The 990 is ok, but it sure wouldn't hurt for their new one to look like the sherwood :). Also, thanks 4 the info riverwolf.

RolandOG

09-07-07, 01:08 AM

I'm researching for a new receiver and have been looking primarily at Denon and Onkyo. I'm curious about the R-972, though, after reading up on it a little. How do you guys think S/N would pair up with Klipsch? I have Forte II's, an Academy and RS3's. Is S/N considered warm? Bright?

Thanks.

Desmo888

09-07-07, 04:31 PM

. I'm curious about the R-972, though, after reading up on it a little. How do you guys think S/N would pair up with Klipsch?

Based on my experience with the P-965/A-965 combo, there is no coloration from S/N separates. If the R-972 follows in the same footsteps, you will be pleased.

fresno1232001

09-07-07, 05:35 PM

I guess I didn't realize the upgrades would work over a cable that long. It would be about 50 feet in my case. Since 50' would work, that makes the upgrades a lot more palatable.
I really like the S/N look better than the brand with the "fantastic upscaler". How bad can the S/N upscaler be? Geez. I do note that the fansastic upscaler brand is being heavily discounted. The top model lists for $2099 and is being had for $1499 or even less. I wonder how much of a break we will get on the MSRP of $1799 on the S-N 972. It would have to go for ~$1200 to get the equiv. price break, and I don't think that will happen. So I'll pay for those good looks.
Agreed. For as infrequently as it would be needed, just buy a 50 or 100 foot cable (whatever length is needed) and lay a temp line down.

MusicFirst

09-07-07, 05:49 PM

Here is a picture from CEDIA (http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2007/090607Newcastle/) of the R-972.

I thought I read somewhere that the R-972 was going to have 6 HDMI inputs. By the looks of that picture it only has 4. Has something changed or do I need to lay-off the crack-pipe? :D

MF

QZ1

09-07-07, 06:46 PM

A few months ago, Jeff said that the R-972 was changed to 4 HDMI inputs.

rushisrighton

09-07-07, 07:20 PM

I thought I read somewhere in this thread that the one they displayed had 4 hdmi's, but when it's officially released it will have 6.

gonk

09-07-07, 09:48 PM

Jeff had hoped to up it to 6 inputs, and that was mentioned back at CES and for some time after, but Jeff confirmed a while back that it had stayed at 4.

fresno1232001

09-08-07, 02:53 PM

That is a new, and the second! picture of the front of the R-972 I have ever seen. It's like it's 1942 and everyone is handing around a picture of the enigma machine. I guess they will be showing the new R-972 for the second year at CEDIA 2008. That must be a funny feeling. Anyhow, it sure does look better than the competition. That will make the deal for me. I care about what equipment looks like. Blue read-out---YES! Four months to go. Anybody to guess at a street price if MSRP is $1799?
I thought I read somewhere that the R-972 was going to have 6 HDMI inputs. By the looks of that picture it only has 4. Has something changed or do I need to lay-off the crack-pipe? :D

MF

krholmberg

09-09-07, 12:33 AM

I too think it's beautiful... and my guess is it'll retail in the $1400-1500 range.

Jeff... when you can (and are allowed), please write more about the Trinnov EQ and what distinguishes it from the Audyssey MultEQ XT. Please also touch on Noah's questions regarding the implementation of it in the R972 vs the professional component (please say it's not watered down) and whether the Trinnov will account for multiple locations simultaneously. Thanks in advance

mtwhickory

09-09-07, 05:22 PM

I would also like more info on the EQ differences between the 972 and 872.

Like FreddyW, I abandoned separates awhile back and bought a B&K AVR307. I love the B&K but want to upgrade to HDMI (mine only has component) and B&K is notoriously slow for new technology. The real clincher for me is the addition of the Audyssey EQ on the Sherwood. I am posting this for two reasons; 1) Does anyone have experience (not opinion) on the sound quality differences between B&K and the newer S/N receivers?, and 2) What EQ system will be on the R-872 and how does its EQ compare with what will be on the R-972?

Michael Warren

RolandOG

09-09-07, 05:28 PM

Based on my experience with the P-965/A-965 combo, there is no coloration from S/N separates. If the R-972 follows in the same footsteps, you will be pleased.

Okay, thanks. Hopefully the SN receivers are similar. I'd like to add the R-972 to my short list, along with the Denon 3808ci and Pio VSX-92

krholmberg

09-10-07, 01:56 AM

The real clincher for me is the addition of the Audyssey EQ on the Sherwood.

Jeff has stated the R972 will have the Trinnov EQ and not the one by Audyssey as previously reported. They both use the same type of filters so presumably they should work similarly. Unfortunately Jeff is unable to speak up on the differences between two (and how the Trinnov EQ will be used in the R972) as his product is still in development. Hopefully he will be allowed to speak more freely in the not too distant future.

krholmberg

09-10-07, 02:51 AM

I've been searching all over AVS and the web in general trying to figure out the difference between Audyssey's MultEQ and the Trinnov Optomizer. In particular, I want to know if the Trinnov Optomizer corrects for multiple positions in the room simultaneously (like the MultEQ). Nothing useful is coming up. Very frustrating. If anyone knows the answer... please speak up :D :D :D.

Stereojeff

09-10-07, 09:49 AM

Let me first say that I am an admirer of the Audyssey system. I think Chris and company are doing great work and I would be proud to offer their system in any of our products. However, I think the goals of the Audyssey and Trinnov systems are quite different. Trinnov's goal is to allow the re-creation of the original acoustic space of the music/soundtrack/performance in the often very different space used for playback. Accordingly, Room EQ (adjusting the in-room loudspeaker frequency response to meet a target curve ) is only a subset of that larger goal.

The Trinnov Optimizer measures the room with 4 microphone capsules simultaneously and knows the speaker locations in 3 dimensions. Trinnov captures speaker distance, azimuth, frequency response, bass cut-off and height of all 8 speakers (as we will implement it in the R-972. Their commercial version can process more channels). Channels are adjusted to fit the target curve using both FIR and IIR filters. Once all channels speak with the same voice (and hopefully with essentially the same voice used in the original recording process), Trinnov corrects for speaker placement issues and adjusts the acoustic location of the playback system so it conforms with the ITU standard for surround music. The Optimizer can even raise or lower the height of a single channel to bring it into the same plane as the other channels. Trinnov's 3 dimensional "sound field" orientation does result in a large "sweet spot" but Trinnov does not claim to improve the sound in every possible seat in the room.

Jeff

Randybes

09-10-07, 09:55 AM

Desmo888

09-10-07, 02:05 PM

If you dig a little deeper in this thread, these topics have been partially covered.

noah katz

09-10-07, 02:37 PM

"The Optimize can even raise or lower the height of a single channel to bring it into the same plane as the other channels."

Very interesting; will it psychoacoustically elevate a center channel speaker placed below a projection screen?

mtwhickory

09-10-07, 05:37 PM

Can anyone give a review about how well the SNAP eq system works? The 872 looks like it has everything I want.

This question still hasn't been answered. What are the main differences between the SNAP EQ and the Trinnov Optimizer?

Originally, the differences between the 972 and 872 were minor- GUI and less HDMI inputs. Now it is looking like a major step-up.

Desmo888

09-11-07, 09:51 AM

I don't know anyone with the Trinnov EQ. There is extremely little information regarding the Trinnov, but I suspect we will get more next year. Quite honestly, if it weren't for this thread there would be little to no information about the SN product line at all.

Here is the Trinnov website:

http://www.trinnov.com/product_Optimizer.php

An article on the Trinnov Optimiser:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-29554555_ITM

I haven't been able to find any SNAP VS Audyssey or VS Trinnov, but since "SNAP" stands for Sherwood Newcastle Automatic Parametric EQ, I don't really expect to as it is probably a proprietary system only found in SN Equipment.

Here is a link to Audessy:

http://www.audyssey.com/multEQ_products.html

There is plenty of information on this board and the web about Audyssey.

bt12483

09-11-07, 10:14 AM

The 872 and 772 are now up on the website. The 872 has an MSRP of $1195, and appears to be the cheapest receiver with 4 HDMI inputs, while also including a USB port. The only other one that compares price and inputs wise is the Yamaha 1800, which I think is listed at $1299, but does not have the USB port.

Any thoughts on the two? Yamaha vs. Sherwood Newcastle in general?

I am looking at both of these uinits for my setup, I have a feeling the SN may be a little bit harder to find though.

FreddyW

09-11-07, 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=bt12483;11587391]The 872 and 772 are now up on the website. The 872 has an MSRP of $1195, and appears to be the cheapest receiver with 4 HDMI inputs, while also including a USB port. The only other one that compares price and inputs wise is the Yamaha 1800, which I think is listed at $1299, but does not have the USB port.

Any thoughts on the two? Yamaha vs. Sherwood Newcastle in general?

[QUOTE]

That's pretty much impossible as no one has the Sherwood, let alone seen one. Honestly, I can't figure out why everyone gets so worked up. Other manufacturers are oftentimes the same as S-N when it comes to hard details BEFORE a product is released, so what's the big deal?

BTW- this is a PUBLIC forum, and not an official S-N (or any other manufacturer) website. I don't see many Denon reps or Yahama reps or Sony reps or you name it, wandering around threads concerning their products, like Jeff Hipps from S-N does here.

To answer the second part of your question, I owned a few Yamaha pieces in years past. They were complete and utter junk. The AVR was lousy, and the 5-disc changer ground from day 1, and still ground after 3 trips to the shop. They were worth nothing when I tried to unload them a year later. I learned "Caveat Emptor." I will never buy any piece of A/V equipment from a company that makes lawn mowers again.

My experience with S-N was pretty postive, other than a particularly annoying firmware bug towards the end of its lifecycle. Better than the Yahmaha gear across the board, no comparision.

quad user

09-11-07, 11:25 AM

I'm also interested in these new S-N receivers, but where the heck does one purchase them when they become available?

Stereojeff

09-11-07, 12:00 PM

Noah:

"The Optimizer can even raise or lower the height of a single channel to bring it into the same plane as the other channels."

Very interesting; will it psychoacoustically elevate a center channel speaker placed below a projection screen?
__________________
Noah

The answer to your question is "yes."

Jeff

bt12483

09-11-07, 12:58 PM

@FreddyW - What is pretty much impossible?

Oh and the link for the 872 receiver is as follows:

http://www.sherwoodamerica.com/prod_r872.html

I guess I should have posted this in my first post (and the MSRP is $1199.95 not, $1195, my mistake).

cybrsage

09-11-07, 01:14 PM

Just finished reading every page, but I cannot find this info.

Does the receiver accept IR signals for control? I have a wonderful universal remote and it only sends IR signals.

crbaldwin

09-11-07, 02:26 PM

I'm also interested in these new S-N receivers, but where the heck does one purchase them when they become available?

Good question. If you're like me you punch in your zipcode on their website and find that you have to drive over 40 miles to some "specialty" store just to be able to order it from there. I've never understood the logic in this since it scares off potential customers...

RolandOG

09-11-07, 03:13 PM

Good question. If you're like me you punch in your zipcode on their website and find that you have to drive over 40 miles to some "specialty" store just to be able to order it from there. I've never understood the logic in this since it scares off potential customers...

Same problem here. I wish it was easier to listen to one of these. There's nothing but custom installers within 130 miles from me, and only a couple of those at that.

Stereojeff

09-11-07, 06:28 PM

Just finished reading every page, but I cannot find this info.

Does the receiver accept IR signals for control? I have a wonderful universal remote and it only sends IR signals.

We are using dual-mode, RF and/or IR remotes on the R-972 and R-872 receivers. Users who prefer IR control may leave the remote in the IR mode. Users who want greater distance, fool-proof macro loading or have their equipment tucked away may choose to use the RF mode. The receivers have internal circuits that convert the RF In to IR Out to control other components.

RF transmission is on the 2.4 MHz band. The remote may be paired to a single Newcastle component or may be set to operate more than one.

At CEDIA we also showed a new multi-source, dual-zone stereo receiver with RF remote (RX-773). Tim Seuss of Seuss Electronics in Appleton, WI suggested this configuration. According to Tim, users can stack 3 of these in a central location, send music to 12 rooms and 6 zones, control it all via RF and never have to install (or use) a keypad.

Jeff

mtwhickory

09-11-07, 08:29 PM

[QUOTE=FreddyW;11587791][QUOTE=bt12483;11587391]The 872 and 772 are now up on the website. The 872 has an MSRP of $1195, and appears to be the cheapest receiver with 4 HDMI inputs, while also including a USB port. The only other one that compares price and inputs wise is the Yamaha 1800, which I think is listed at $1299, but does not have the USB port.

Any thoughts on the two? Yamaha vs. Sherwood Newcastle in general?

That's pretty much impossible as no one has the Sherwood, let alone seen one. Honestly, I can't figure out why everyone gets so worked up. Other manufacturers are oftentimes the same as S-N when it comes to hard details BEFORE a product is released, so what's the big deal? [QUOTE]

A couple of points here: One of the main reasons many of us participate in these forums is to get information from like-minded A/V enthusiasts on equipment and technology that we either personally don't have or don't have the opportunity to compare. I realize that nobody out there has a B&K AVR307 and a SN 972 receiver hooked up to the same speakers in the same room, but I (and the guy wanting to know the general differences between Yamaha and Sherwood Newcastle) assume there are [I]general[I] differences such as build quality, sound quality, customer service, etc. that continue basically from year to year. I doubt, for example, that the current B&K AVR507 sounds noticeably different than my AVR307 and assume that the new 872/972 will sound basically the same as last years top of the line (all settings and features equal). Having never even seen a Sherwood Newcastle receiver much less heard one, though, I have no idea what one sounds like. Forums like these give people like me a chance to use other peoples' experiences to fill in these gaps.

The other point is entirely different but the mention of Yamaha made me think of it. I was selling AV in the early '90s when Yamaha came out with the DSP-E1000/A1000. The story was that Yamaha engineers went into each of the venues (Carnegie Hall, Jazz Club, etc.), set up an array of digital microphones in the sweet spot, then blew an air horn on stage. The resulting sound waves, including reflections with delays, were fed into a computer that was used to reproduce that particular venue. All of the original venues were actual places and either used the name or you could call Yamaha and find out where it was. The story went on to say that when Dolby Labs heard that Yamaha was messing with the timing and delays of their copyrighted Pro Logic, they were upset. Yamaha invited the Dolby engineers to come listen. Legend has it that they were so impressed that one of the engineers bought a Yamaha processor on the spot!

At the time, that was groundbreaking technology. The main reason I am excited about the new crop of receivers is they now have the ability to fix the number one problem in audio- room variations. With the new EQs we now have the ability to minimize differences between the anachoic room where the speaker was developed and our living room. We can minimze differences between full-range vertical front speakers, horizontal center channels, and smaller rear channels. And, yes Noah, we can psychoacoustically elevate a center channel speaker placed below a projection screen! Hot damn that's cool!

(Appologys to the "Grammer Nazi" for any spelling and/or grammer errors found in the above rambling.)

eightninesuited

09-12-07, 12:02 AM

Am I the only one who expected the 872 to have a drop down door? Sherwoods without the door looks all ugly IMO. The design is very complimentary to the door. :confused:

jdskycaster

09-12-07, 10:41 AM

The other point is entirely different but the mention of Yamaha made me think of it. I was selling AV in the early '90s when Yamaha came out with the DSP-E1000/A1000. The story was that Yamaha engineers went into each of the venues (Carnegie Hall, Jazz Club, etc.), set up an array of digital microphones in the sweet spot, then blew an air horn on stage. The resulting sound waves, including reflections with delays, were fed into a computer that was used to reproduce that particular venue. All of the original venues were actual places and either used the name or you could call Yamaha and find out where it was. The story went on to say that when Dolby Labs heard that Yamaha was messing with the timing and delays of their copyrighted Pro Logic, they were upset. Yamaha invited the Dolby engineers to come listen. Legend has it that they were so impressed that one of the engineers bought a Yamaha processor on the spot!

The Yamaha DSP E1000 was the center of the first home theater I built for myself in 1992. This was an excellent Dolby Prologic processor and also had the capability to provide 4 effect channels via the enhanced surround modes. This one served me well for many years until the upgrade to discrete surround processing became standard fare.

JD

cybrsage

09-12-07, 11:29 AM

We are using dual-mode, RF and/or IR remotes on the R-972 and R-872 receivers. Users who prefer IR control may leave the remote in the IR mode. Users who want greater distance, fool-proof macro loading or have their equipment tucked away may choose to use the RF mode. The receivers have internal circuits that convert the RF In to IR Out to control other components.

Jeff

Ok, just to make sure I understand:

I can use my learning universal IR remote to learn the codes from the remote you include. I can then use my IR remote to control the S-N AVR.

Is this correct?

fresno1232001

09-12-07, 02:52 PM

No, the Nazi is running for President, and she is not going to win. I just hate really jarring, obvious slaughtering of my language. Of course, down there in N.C. you are probably used to it.

(Appologys to the "Grammer Nazi" for any spelling and/or grammer errors found in the above rambling.)[/QUOTE]

cybrsage

09-12-07, 03:22 PM

No, the Nazi is running for President, and she is not going to win. I just hate really jarring, obvious slaughtering of my language. Of course, down there in N.C. you are probably used to it.

Your formatting problems had me scratching my head!

You are missing a [quote] infront of his quote.

AceMineral

09-12-07, 03:58 PM

I stopped by the Sherwood website to get a look at their new receivers. Their economy model, the R-672, was there and seemed be nice enough for $500. However, the rear photo showed it has clip type speaker cable connectors! What a come down.

FreddyW

09-12-07, 04:12 PM

A couple of points here: One of the main reasons many of us participate in these forums is to get information from like-minded A/V enthusiasts on equipment and technology that we either personally don't have or don't have the opportunity to compare. I realize that nobody out there has a B&K AVR307 and a SN 972 receiver hooked up to the same speakers in the same room, but I (and the guy wanting to know the general differences between Yamaha and Sherwood Newcastle) assume there are [I]general[I] differences such as build quality, sound quality, customer service, etc. that continue basically from year to year. I doubt, for example, that the current B&K AVR507 sounds noticeably different than my AVR307 and assume that the new 872/972 will sound basically the same as last years top of the line (all settings and features equal). Having never even seen a Sherwood Newcastle receiver much less heard one, though, I have no idea what one sounds like. Forums like these give people like me a chance to use other peoples' experiences to fill in these gaps.

The other point is entirely different but the mention of Yamaha made me think of it. I was selling AV in the early '90s when Yamaha came out with the DSP-E1000/A1000. The story was that Yamaha engineers went into each of the venues (Carnegie Hall, Jazz Club, etc.), set up an array of digital microphones in the sweet spot, then blew an air horn on stage. The resulting sound waves, including reflections with delays, were fed into a computer that was used to reproduce that particular venue. All of the original venues were actual places and either used the name or you could call Yamaha and find out where it was. The story went on to say that when Dolby Labs heard that Yamaha was messing with the timing and delays of their copyrighted Pro Logic, they were upset. Yamaha invited the Dolby engineers to come listen. Legend has it that they were so impressed that one of the engineers bought a Yamaha processor on the spot!

At the time, that was groundbreaking technology. The main reason I am excited about the new crop of receivers is they now have the ability to fix the number one problem in audio- room variations. With the new EQs we now have the ability to minimize differences between the anachoic room where the speaker was developed and our living room. We can minimze differences between full-range vertical front speakers, horizontal center channels, and smaller rear channels. And, yes Noah, we can psychoacoustically elevate a center channel speaker placed below a projection screen! Hot damn that's cool!

(Appologys to the "Grammer Nazi" for any spelling and/or grammer errors found in the above rambling.)

Yes, but the original poster asked about the NEW Sherwood models first. They aren't out yet, so how could anyone compare, regardless of their set-up? Second, while your Yahmaha carnegie hall experience and units may have been different experiences than my totally lousy ones...the poster then DID ask for Yahama vs. Sherwood opinions based on anyone's experience with any units. I gave him mine, as I DID have actual experience with previous Yahmaha units (also from early 90's) and Sherwood Newcastle. And while YMMV, mine most assuredly did not. Ergo, my response to the question posed on your "like-minded enthusist" forum!

Can't have it both ways, brother!

Stereojeff

09-12-07, 04:30 PM

AceMineral:

I haven't seen that photo but will look into it. However, I can assure you that the R-672 does not have speaker clips. It has binding posts.

Jeff

gonk

09-12-07, 05:33 PM

This (http://www.sherwoodamerica.com/panel_r672.html) appears to be the picture that AceMineral is talking about. It is a bit odd looking, as there appears to be room for binding posts.

Stereojeff

09-12-07, 06:41 PM

Thanks, Gonk. You're right. That is the photo on the web site. However, the actual units in stock have binding posts. I'll forward the correct photo to the web master.

Jeff

krholmberg

09-13-07, 04:19 AM

Jeff...

Your response regarding the Trinnov and Audyssey software programs was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. S/N's use of the Trinnov software program will likely be the deciding factor in making me choose the R972 over its main competitors. BTW, your presence on this forum is a tremendous asset and hope it continues for a long time into the future. I do wish the 972 had 6 HDMI in and 2 out. The second out would have been really nice as my system is hooked up to a front projector and it would be nice to have a secondary small LCD screen to use for menial tasks when I'd rather avoid turning on the PJ.

gonk

09-13-07, 07:29 AM

The second out would have been really nice as my system is hooked up to a front projector and it would be nice to have a secondary small LCD screen to use for menial tasks when I'd rather avoid turning on the PJ.
I was reading through the info on the R-872 and noticed that it will convert digital video inputs to component analog output - which (if the 972 also offers this) could be useful for feeding all of your sources to a small secondary screen for menial tasks...

cybrsage

09-13-07, 02:14 PM

Stereojeff

Ok, just to make sure I understand what you said previously:

I can use my learning universal IR remote to learn the codes from the remote you include. I can then use my IR remote to control the S-N AVR.

Is this correct?

It is a deciding factor for me, as my wife does not want to change remotes.

noah katz

09-13-07, 05:37 PM

Jeff,

Does the Trinnov come with the proper mike array to set up the Trinnov.

Stereojeff

09-13-07, 07:44 PM

Jeff,

Does the Trinnov come with the proper mike array to set up the Trinnov.
__________________
Noah

Noah:

The 4 capsule mic needed for Trinnov setup will be included with the R-972.

Jeff

krholmberg

09-14-07, 01:25 AM

I was reading through the info on the R-872 and noticed that it will convert digital video inputs to component analog output - which (if the 972 also offers this) could be useful for feeding all of your sources to a small secondary screen for menial tasks...

Thanks for the pointer! Now I'm totally sold on this AVR :D.

randytsuch1

09-14-07, 02:28 AM

I was reading through the info on the R-872 and noticed that it will convert digital video inputs to component analog output - which (if the 972 also offers this) could be useful for feeding all of your sources to a small secondary screen for menial tasks...

Are you sure? I read somewhere that this is a violation of HDCP, so you can't do it and be HDCP compliant.

gonk

09-14-07, 07:49 AM

Are you sure? I read somewhere that this is a violation of HDCP, so you can't do it and be HDCP compliant.
That's been my understanding for a good long while now, as well, which is why I glossed over some earlier references to "converting digital video to component." The page on Sherwood's site describes it pretty specifically, though. I'm not sure that the issue is really tied to HDCP, though - HDCP requires that the components identify themselves, so you don't have a computer or some other "black box" just scoop up the digital video signal and copy it into some other form, and the receiver's video processing section is going to be an approved component for passing the video data and manipulating it. It's not really much different than my DVI-HDCP CRT display converting a digital signal to analog before feeding it to the CRT. The difference is that it's being done separately from the display in this case, and that would seem to run counter to Hollywood's eagerness to close the "analog hole" that HD-resolution component video represents. Could it be that there are some restrictions not yet documented regarding the feature? Hard to say, since the receiver isn't shipping yet and we can't pick through the manual yet. It is certainly unusual...

krholmberg

09-14-07, 12:18 PM

Are you sure? I read somewhere that this is a violation of HDCP, so you can't do it and be HDCP compliant.

Good point, but as long as it works... that's good enough for me:p. I intend to use this feature for honest purposes. A perfect example is viewing the media center on the PS3 to play music networked from my PC. It's annoying to have to turn on my PJ (and waste bulb hours) just to listen to music. BTW, this feature is awesome. I think I'm going to get a squeezbox for the living room to do the same thing.

cybrsage

09-14-07, 12:20 PM

AFAIK, HDCP only truely concerns itself with digital signals. I think it demands that any conversion to analog degrade the output quality.

fresno1232001

09-14-07, 03:51 PM

Jeff- Since you are delaying the R-972 for 5 months, why don't you put the Reon upscaler used in the Onkyo 905 in it? Your MSRP of $1799 is $300 less than the 905's of $2099, so you have room to play with and could increase your price and remain competitive. Everybody just raves about the Reon processor (even though we now see posts by users saying it's prone to problems). You are using the Faroudja de-interlacer-upscaler and no one says it is as good or better than the Reon, so why stick with it?

Jeff...

Your response regarding the Trinnov and Audyssey software programs was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. S/N's use of the Trinnov software program will likely be the deciding factor in making me choose the R972 over its main competitors. BTW, your presence on this forum is a tremendous asset and hope it continues for a long time into the future. I do wish the 972 had 6 HDMI in and 2 out. The second out would have been really nice as my system is hooked up to a front projector and it would be nice to have a secondary small LCD screen to use for menial tasks when I'd rather avoid turning on the PJ.

noah katz

09-14-07, 03:57 PM

Jeff,

"delaying the R-972 for 5 months"

I've lost track; 5 mos from when? What's the current estimated availability date for the 972?

Thanks for all the answers.

Stereojeff

09-14-07, 06:28 PM

Noah:

We expect to have the R-972 with Trinnov and enhancements in March, 2008.

Jeff

Stereojeff

09-14-07, 06:31 PM

Fresno1232001:

Jeff- Since you are delaying the R-972 for 5 months, why don't you put the Reon upscaler used in the Onkyo 905 in it? Your MSRP of $1799 is $300 less than the 905's of $2099, so you have room to play with and could increase your price and remain competitive. Everybody just raves about the Reon processor (even though we now see posts by users saying it's prone to problems). You are using the Faroudja de-interlacer-upscaler and no one says it is as good or better than the Reon, so why stick with it?

OK.

Jeff

krholmberg

09-15-07, 12:45 AM

Wow... so now it's projected release is 14 months after it was announced (at CES 07)... weren't they saying it was to be released in 7 months (Aug 07)? Amazing how little things happen in the development process to cause delay after delay. They really add up. Good thing for me is I'm not ready to buy (financially)... but the bad thing for S/N is by the time it's released it it'll be nearly obsolete ;).

sriram

09-15-07, 07:56 AM

Hi,

I just acquired a Sherwood R-672 (through Axiom) and given that I am quite a newbie to all this technology, I need some help in getting it going.

I have an Oppo DV-981 connected to the 672 using an HDMI cable and the HDMI out of the receiver to my TV.

Do I still need a seperate cable to get an audio feed o my 5.1 speaker setup ?
I thought the HDMI cables carried both audio and video. Am I wrong in assuming that ?

Isn't the receiver capable of decoding the audio coming from the HDMI in and send it to my speakers ?

Any helpwould be appreciated.

-Sriram

gonk

09-15-07, 08:56 AM

The HDMI cable from the 981 can carry all audio. You'll probably want to set "HDMI Audio" on the 981 to "Auto" - that will result is Dolby Digital and DTS being passed as a bitstream so the Sherwood can decode it, while DVD-Audio and SACD are decoded internally and passed as multichannel PCM.

sriram

09-15-07, 09:05 AM

The audio from the 981 is passing through to the TV directly, but I can't fathom how to get the Sherwood to pipe it to my speakers.

The manual is absolutely cryptic and over concise to the limit for the 672.

I do have the 981's set to Auto and the output to Raw.

thanks for your help, by the way..

-sriram

gonk

09-15-07, 10:18 AM

The R-672's manual isn't online yet, so I don't know what settings might be involved. If the audio is going through to the TV but not getting picked up by the Sherwood, my guess would be that the audio hasn't been assigned to the HDMI port yet, but that's just a shot in the dark since I don't know how the setup works. You might be able to get some help from Axiom or Sherwood customer support. Since you bought from Axiom, I'd start there.

crbaldwin

09-15-07, 10:33 AM

I just acquired a Sherwood R-672 (through Axiom) and given that I am quite a newbie to all this technology, I need some help in getting it going.

Is Axiom an authorized dealer? If so, this may be an option for those of us without a local dealer...

gonk

09-15-07, 10:41 AM

Check out this page (http://www.axiomaudio.com/sherwood_main.html) - according to an Axiom newsletter, Axiom has been Sherwood Newcastle's authorized online dealer since February.

crbaldwin

09-15-07, 10:57 AM

Check out this page (http://www.axiomaudio.com/sherwood_main.html) - according to an Axiom newsletter, Axiom has been Sherwood Newcastle's authorized online dealer since February.

Thanks. It would be great if we could get confirmation from Sherwood that this is the case.

jakeman

09-15-07, 12:22 PM

It's been the case all year as reported.

Stereojeff

09-15-07, 02:36 PM

Sriram:

On the R-672, HDMI is a separate and independent path. To get the audio, you will need to run S/PDIF of analog audio from the Oppo to the Newcastle.

Jeff

mtwhickory

09-15-07, 06:07 PM

Yes, but the original poster asked about the NEW Sherwood models first. They aren't out yet, so how could anyone compare, regardless of their set-up? Second, while your Yahmaha carnegie hall experience and units may have been different experiences than my totally lousy ones...the poster then DID ask for Yahama vs. Sherwood opinions based on anyone's experience with any units. I gave him mine, as I DID have actual experience with previous Yahmaha units (also from early 90's) and Sherwood Newcastle. And while YMMV, mine most assuredly did not. Ergo, my response to the question posed on your "like-minded enthusist" forum!

Can't have it both ways, brother!

Good point on the NEW Sherwood model comparisons. But my point was that in reference to sound quality, there shouldn't be much if any difference between last year's Sherwood vs last year's Yamaha (or B&K in my case). Once you have the general sound/quality differences down it basically becomes an issue of features and price. Your quality issues, or lack thereof, with Yamaha were helpful.

With regards to my charming story on the Yamaha DSP history, that was merely to point out that what they did was groundbreaking at the time and only now with Audyssey and Trinnov has such technology become accessible for us in our living room (with much greater benefit and user control I might add). The ONLY Yamaha home theater pieces I ever liked were those two that I mentioned, and only then for the DSP processing.

What does YMMV stand for?

John McCutcheon

09-15-07, 07:38 PM

Your Mileage May Vary.

TomHuffman

09-15-07, 10:31 PM

Will the R-872 accept multichannel PCM digital audio via HDMI coming from a Blu-ray or HD DVD player? The post below says explicitly that the R-672 does not.

mcoleg

09-16-07, 12:57 AM

Jeff, hi,

i thought there was a mention here about a new hdmi switcher Sherwood is comming out with... can't find it though. do you have any info on that? thanks :)

Stereojeff

09-16-07, 09:42 AM

mcoleg:

We have a prototype HDMI switcher/scaler but have not made a decision about marketing it.

Jeff

Stereojeff

09-16-07, 01:34 PM

TomHuffman:

The R-772 will handle lossless audio over HDMI when it is decoded in the player to PCM. The R-872 can decode both the native lossless audio data and the PCM version thereof.

Jeff

fresno1232001

09-16-07, 03:01 PM

OK? It wasn't a command. It was a suggestion. Do you mean we can count on the 972 having the Reon processor or do you mean you'll consider it?

Fresno1232001:

Jeff- Since you are delaying the R-972 for 5 months, why don't you put the Reon upscaler used in the Onkyo 905 in it? Your MSRP of $1799 is $300 less than the 905's of $2099, so you have room to play with and could increase your price and remain competitive. Everybody just raves about the Reon processor (even though we now see posts by users saying it's prone to problems). You are using the Faroudja de-interlacer-upscaler and no one says it is as good or better than the Reon, so why stick with it?

OK.

Jeff

noah katz

09-16-07, 03:21 PM

Jeff,

"We expect to have the R-972 with Trinnov and enhancements in March, 2008."

Will there be any preproduction samples available to reviewers before that?

Stereojeff

09-16-07, 08:35 PM

mcoleg

09-16-07, 10:30 PM

Jeff - thanks

krholmberg

09-16-07, 11:37 PM

Fresno1232001:
the delays in the availability of the Torino chip allowed us to review our chip selection for scaling and deinterlacing. The Reon was reconsidered and selected.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Now I'm definitely going with the 972!!!!!!!!!!

crbaldwin

09-17-07, 11:15 AM

Do these models have any kind of startup volume control (i.e. volume is reset to user-specified lower value when you turn the receiver on)? Also, how hot do these run? I currently have an H/K and am amazed at how it is a space heater even in an idle state. Thanks.

fresno1232001

09-17-07, 04:29 PM

Thanks Jeff. Great news. I am stunned and thrilled. Way to go! Everybody has been saying re the Reon in the Onkyos "It will all depend on how Onkyo implements the Reon" as to how good it will be. I know you know that, S-N has a great reputation, and I am sure you will implement it right. This should make for a killer product. I can hardly wait but I CAN wait till March 2008, and I shall. The 972 will now have the features, build quality, customer support, LOOKS, and price to make it a powerful competitor. I assume S-N obtained an Onkyo 905 and compared the pix quality of the Faroudja v. the Reon processors and decided to substitute the Reon. I can hardly believe you did it!, but I am very happy that you did. Will it still have a list price of $1799 with the Reon? If so, you will have a very strong competitor to the Onkyo 905. Fresno1232001:

Your wish is our command. The R-972 will have the Reon processor.

Actually the delays in the availability of the Torino chip allowed us to review our chip selection for scaling and deinterlacing. The Reon was reconsidered and selected.

Noah:

We send production models to reviewers.

Jeff

Stereojeff

09-17-07, 04:59 PM

fresno1232001:

I do not anticipate a price increase on the R-972.

Jeff

dsmith901

09-17-07, 06:27 PM

Fresno1232001:

Your wish is our command. The R-972 will have the Reon processor.

Actually the delays in the availability of the Torino chip allowed us to review our chip selection for scaling and deinterlacing. The Reon was reconsidered and selected.

Noah:

We send production models to reviewers.

Jeff

While you are granting wishes, I wish for a kill switch on the receiver's amps to completely turn them off so it can be used as a pre/pro only without the electronic noise from the amps, or any noisy fans. Or you can just go ahead and release the pre/pro section as the P-972 as you did with the P-965, with a suitable reduction in price. Please?????? :D:D:D

mtwhickory

09-17-07, 09:19 PM

"I have Denon with the Audyssey EQ, and all I can say is don't expect miracles. If you are used to the sound of your speakers, you may not even like the sound after EQ. I find that I like it sometimes but not always (depending on the recording), though it is nice to have the option.

I don't know about the implementation of Audyssey in the other AVR's you are looking at, but the Denon offers three settings: "Audyssey" (which flattens the response but rolls off the top of the treble), "Flat" (which flattens the response but does not role off the treble), and "Front" (which leaves the L/R speakers alone but EQ's the rest of your speakers to match them tonally).

I don't really like the Audyssey settings as it robs the music of a lot of detail. The Flat setting is better because it retains most of the detail I like in the sound and I use this setting quite often. However, I bought my speakers because I liked the way the sounded in my room before I bought them. So I end up using the "Front" setting the most (I think this is a Denon only feature). This retains the sound I bought the speakers for in the first place, but compensates for the differences in room location of the other speakers.

Just something to consider when deciding which AVR to buy."

This is a quote I dug off another AVS thread. After reading up on the Trinnov, it sounds like the 3-D benefits may be one of the key benefits over the Audyssey- especially with surround sound.

krholmberg

09-17-07, 11:31 PM

Jeff... this is awesome.

I have a concern about how the Trinnov processor will work with my system. I have a big infinite baffle sub that has been finely tuned with a parametric EQ (12 bands are being used!!!). Without help, the response has a few minor dips and peaks, but then two monster peaks that approach 20dB in height (which explains why I need so many bands). I put in a house curve so when pink noise is played at 75dB, the output at the seated position slowly increases 10dB from 70Hz to 30Hz. It remains 10dB hot from 30Hz to 20Hz and then slowly drops back to 75dB at 10 Hz. It sounds effortless and I absolutely love it. How will the Trinnov processor affect the output of the sub? Should I leave my parametric EQ intact or remove it from the system? Will I be able to replicate my house curve with the R972? My hope is that I can dial in the curve I want, and then the Trinnov will not only recreate it, but make the sweet spot larger than my head (obviously the parametric EQ only works for only one specific location in space). I doubt that will be possible but with a little luck maybe. My concern is that Audyssey's system only softens dips and peaks, it doesn't eliminate them (and there is no way in hell it would get rid of the monster peaks I have). Oh, BTW, my room is heavily treated with passive acoustic treatments. I have large strategically placed bass traps as well as 1st reflection absorbers.

henningh

09-18-07, 01:57 PM

Fresno1232001:

Your wish is our command. The R-972 will have the Reon processor.

Actually the delays in the availability of the Torino chip allowed us to review our chip selection for scaling and deinterlacing. The Reon was reconsidered and selected.

Awesome news. Great job!

Personally, I don't care too much about tweeking processor's settings, as long as you use some good values. But the stretch modes have to be flexible, for me. (Unlike the Onkyos.)

Stereojeff

09-18-07, 02:51 PM

krholmberg:

Target curves are an interesting issue.

We are working on a way to allow consumers to edit target curves. I will have to ask you to stay tuned.

Jeff

noah katz

09-18-07, 03:36 PM

"We are working on a way to allow consumers to edit target curves."

That would be fantastic, and a huge advantage over Audyssey.

Which BTW has upped the ante with Dynamic EQ, which is effectively a sophisticated loudness control (volume-dependent freq contouring). The CEDIA reports say it was very effective, maintaining bass fullness and treble clarity at low levels.

But it can only be activated if you have the Pro s/w and an installer, so extra expense.

Decisions, decisions...

markc

09-18-07, 04:01 PM

does the 872 have a phono input?

krholmberg

09-18-07, 04:21 PM

krholmberg:

Target curves are an interesting issue.

We are working on a way to allow consumers to edit target curves. I will have to ask you to stay tuned.

Jeff

Oooohhhh... the suspense:D.

I figured you wouldn't be able to do that (and that my question would be difficult at best to answer)... but now I'm more intrigued then ever!!!

Edit: I hope you guys can implement a really good algorithm for enabling this function. Having the unique and uber expensive Trinnov Optomizer built in and having the ability to create your own curve would be extremely marketable and help define S/N as a company that makes high end product. It would really set you apart from the other manufacturers in your price bracket.

krholmberg

09-18-07, 09:35 PM

I've been exchanging e-mails today with a local S/N dealer and he basically said they will not carry the new line of S/N receivers when they come out (but they do carry the current ones). He then recommended the Onkyo x05 series receivers or waiting for a new Cambridge Audio 7.1 scheduled to be release Q1'08. I asked him to please elaborate but he replied "NO THANKS". Kind of rude. In an earlier e-mail he said he went to CEDIA and talked to the reps and subsequently had a very "we'll wait and see" attitude. I wonder what happened to put him off S/N. Really strange.

Stereojeff

09-19-07, 12:15 AM

Gents:

The R-872 does not have a phono input.

Krholmberg:

No retailers are authorized to speak for us. As I don't know where you are located and don't know what dealer you're talking to I have no idea what peeve is being passed on. As you are well aware from our brief communications here, Sherwood Newcastle is committed to equipment that performs at the hightest possible level and the company is staffed by people who care.

Jeff

Stereojeff

09-19-07, 12:23 AM

Noah:

There were several versions of "dynamic EQ" debuted at CEDIA. I expect "Dolby Volume" will have the most traction. We're talking to the DSP guys now to find out what additional hardware will be needed to implement the feature and when the DSP code is expected to be available.

Whether such EQ will prove useful will depend on one's listening habits. If your listen at or near reference level, none of the EQ's will be worthwhile. If you often listen at -10 dB or lower, dynamic EQ may improve your listening experience.

Jeff

noah katz

09-19-07, 01:00 AM

"There were several versions of "dynamic EQ" debuted at CEDIA. I expect "Dolby Volume" will have the most traction. We're talking to the DSP guys now to find out what additional hardware will be needed to implement the feature and when the DSP code is expected to be available."

I wasn't aware that there were others, great to hear that you're looking at it.

"Whether such EQ will prove useful will depend on one's listening habits. If your listen at or near reference level, none of the EQ's will be worthwhile. If you often listen at -10 dB or lower, dynamic EQ may improve your listening experience."

If you're suggesting that it's rare to listen at -10 dB or less, I'm very surprised.

krholmberg

09-19-07, 01:12 AM

I have no idea what peeve is being passed on. As you are well aware from our brief communications here, Sherwood Newcastle is committed to equipment that performs at the highest possible level and the company is staffed by people who care.

Jeff... I believe you.

He didn't pass on any specific peeve. I tried to get it out of him but he wouldn't tell me. Probably smart of him. At any rate, I've heard nothing but good things about S/N in the past... except for maybe it's known for having delays getting products to the open market. Oh well... I'll wait for product this good. If it was rushed to market, we would have missed out on the Trinnov software as well as the Reon processor. The fact that you're taking your time so you can not only use these technologies but fully take advantage of their capability is key. I have a JVC RS1 front projector and the fact that it has a wonderful VP chip that is horribly used drives me crazy.

Brac96

09-19-07, 07:58 AM

Does anyone know when these will be in dealers showrooms?
thanks
Dan

noah katz

09-19-07, 01:38 PM

bigdwest

09-19-07, 04:24 PM

Hey Jeff,

Since you are in the wish granting mood.

Could we also request 4 HDMI in /2 HDMI out?

I have a projector but I also want a second LCD display for those times that I don't need care to use the projector.

Thanks for your consideration.

David

krholmberg

09-20-07, 03:32 PM

"The fact that you're taking your time so you can not only use these technologies but fully take advantage of their capability is key."

I don't see where it says how much of the Reon's capabilities will be implemented.

My statement (along with the following one regarding JVC's poor implementation of the Gennum chip in the RS1) was meant to be more suggestive to Jeff than anything. I hope S/N doens't make the same mistake JVC did and waste good money on a great chip and use it improperly. Sorry for overstating "the facts"... as I clearly did.

Kysersose

09-21-07, 08:18 AM

I've cleaned up this thread a bit. Next person to bring it off topic will be suspended.

Kyser

AceMineral

09-22-07, 09:54 PM

StereoJeff,

Does Sherwood estimate how long their Newcastle line of X72 receivers will last with proper care?

krholmberg

09-22-07, 11:31 PM

By proper care, what do you mean? Decent ventilation? Having ambient temp at a "normal" level? Not spilling spilling anything on it? Avoiding lightning storms? I would think it would last as long as you want it provided you don't run into a bit of bad luck. Realistically it will be obsolete in 5 years... chances are you'll move on within 10 years. It should easily last that long and probably double that. At least I would hope so.

AceMineral

09-23-07, 08:24 AM

Krholmberg,

Yes, not spilling anything into, or throwing on to the floor. That sort of thing.

Obsolete within five years? What is going to come along in the next five or so years to obsolete it?

Sekur

09-23-07, 05:28 PM

Hi,
i just found this interessting Forum and of course topic
First of all I am from Germany and i would like to know whether Sherwood R972, R872... will be available for european market and if so, when will they come? As i have read here R872 allready available at US and R972 will come approximately March 2008. Anystate ment to this Jeff?

"Obsolete within five Years?" cant tell you what will come, i am but not so deep in that topic. But i can tell you what happend to my Sherwood receivers i buyed.

Approx. Ten years ago, my Sherwood R-725 became obsolent because of Dolby Surround became Dolby Digital and Digital connections for CD, and DVD came (I could use it a little bit longer because i got an Sherwood DVD 5108 with analog 5.1 exit). After that i got an Sherwood RVD-9090, because i wanted at least some digital Input possibilities.
I believe RVD-9090 was released 1999 and nowadays is quite out dated. No Dolby Digital EX (6.1 + 7.1) no compsit to S-VHS connection, no component switching, no HDMI (of course). But even outdatet it still works fine. So Obsolete depends on your needs. And I am sure industry will find new connetions Protocols, faster picture chips for better video calculation. As you can see even HDMI is evolving nowadays its already 1.3.

I can still live with my old 9090 because i dont have so much hi-level technologie at home, right now. I only got an Sanyo Z1 Beamer with direct components connection to DVD (Sherwood V768). But now i can spend more money on technical equippment, so sure there will be some High Definiton components and i would like to stay with Sherwood, so iam looking forward to an uptodate Sherwood Receiver.

I hope my english skills are good enough so I don´t offence anyone by bad spellig, grammmar or other mistakes.
So long

Sekur

09-23-07, 05:29 PM

Oh i almost forgot i would prefer black ;)

rushisrighton

09-23-07, 05:59 PM

How about an I link connection?

Since my sacd/dvda player wont pass this through hdmi, it would be nice for my first "does it all" processor to have this option.

Graham Johnson

09-23-07, 06:18 PM

Stereojeff,

Is it Sherwoods policy to have a mulitple winding primary on the power tranformer??

Will I be able to buy from the USA (like all my other equipment) and run it on 240V ???

I am sick of getting ripped by the local Sherwood agents who will screw the market on price and reduce your potential sales by ridiculous reseller pricing.

I really want to buy the 972 but refuse to pay AUD $3000 for it.

My existing Sherwood Newcastle receiver is a tank and I love it. But I need the switching and 1.3 audio.

Lastly, will it have input by input adjustable audio delay? Based on what I have seen with the Samsung 1200 BD player. I need up to 250ms of delay.

kjohn

09-23-07, 07:08 PM

I hear a lot of talk about the new recievers but what about the new pre/pro stand alone processor.

Brac96

09-24-07, 01:33 AM

I'll apologize ahead of time for being slightly off topic, but this seemed to be the only active Sherwood thread.

I will be purchasing a ERA D/4 D/3 speaker package and I'm concerned about the minimum impedance levels of these speakers which are 6 for the D4 and 4 for the D3 surrounds. These will be used in a home theater/music system system in a 240 sq ft space with eight foot ceilings at moderate listening levels. Will the 672 drive these speakers without problems? Would the amplifier section be considered a high current design? If I needed to add a amplifier later on are there pre amp outs?

Thanks, Best Regards
Dan:cool:

Stereojeff

09-24-07, 10:03 AM

Brac96:

R-672 should be fine in your proposed set-up.

Jeff

stretchsje

09-25-07, 12:30 AM

Jeff-

You mentioned the R-972 getting more power than originally spec'd. Any comment on that? With the R-972's amp originally spec'd identically to the $499 R-672, I wasn't expecting much from the unit's built-in amplifier and was instead going to use it as a pre/pro only. Is the ETA on your pre/pro similar to the R-972?

If you're shooting for a March 2008 release, will there ever be a R-972 or should we all just start referring to it as the R-973?

I also just wanted to thank you for openly posting here.

krholmberg

09-25-07, 01:03 PM

AceMineral...

To clarify, I think the S/N line should last as long as you need it to if it is properly cared for. By that I mean it should last at least 10 years, but probably a lot more. As for becoming obsolete, new connections, codecs and parameters seem to come out every 2-3 years with major changes coming every 5-7 years. Sure, the old equipment (especially good equipment) continues to work well, but if you are even somewhat of an early adopter, you'll probably want to change or upgrade in that 5-7 year stretch. This is not a shot in any way at S/N; their new lineup is bleeding edge right now, but that won't last for long. As you know, it's just the nature of the industry.

krholmberg

09-25-07, 01:10 PM

Jeff - I'm also interested in what sets the amp and its utilization in the 972 apart from the other models in the new line-up. And although unlikely, I'd also like to bump the idea of 2 HDMI outs.

stretchsje

09-25-07, 01:57 PM

Jeff,

I have a few "love-to-see-'em" features to request since you seem to be open to them. Hopefully they're reasonable:

1) Persistent HDMI output. I had an Onkyo SR875 that would momentarily drop the video output when the source switched resolutions, and that'd cause a 6-8 second resync process in the projector. This is a big deal when surfing through various television channels since they all seem to use different resolutions. It was annoying enough that I put my Tivo to a permanent 720p output, and this means the Reon processor became useless for my HDTV broadcasts. I'd love a receiver that I could set to one resolution and know that the display will never have to resync from that resolution unless there were a frame rate change.

2) Component video output for zone 2. Since zone 2 is going to be in another room, it makes sense to use component cables since they work well for long runs. Composite and S-video do not!

3) Have you considered a front panel HDMI input? Even digital cameras are starting to have HDMI for the video output of their slideshows. I think a front-panel HDMI input is one of those features that I'll wish I had in a year or two.

I also just wanted to say the RF remote idea is great. I plan to use it from zone 2 and keep my universal remote for zone 1 since I'm happy with it. I'm also happy to see no "bloat" from what seems like very gimmicky features on your competitors.

krholmberg

09-25-07, 02:14 PM

I have a few "love-to-see-'em" features to request... 1) Persistent HDMI output.
+1

I have a PS3 and the resynching drives me nuts.

Chui

09-26-07, 12:14 AM

I hear a lot of talk about the new recievers but what about the new pre/pro stand alone processor.

Yeah, how about if Jeff?

Even a little snippet to keep us going?:D

bobpaule

09-26-07, 08:22 PM

I know i'm going to get ripped wide open for saying this, but the Yamaha RX-V2700 beats the P-965 as a pre/pro by eons.

Maibe it is the new sound formats from my PS3 and HD-A1 but i have a good comparison, as i ownded the Anthem D1 before i got the Yammy.

Have separates, filtered power and Nordost interconnects with 10 AWG Belden/Silver/Gold DYI speaker wires, biwired front stage, Paradigm Reference front stage and Athena (dipole/monopole) surround stage.
Of course HMDI is now king in my system, the PS3 gives classical SACDs a new meaning, and the visualizations that go with it transport me into another dimension :)

Sorry, just an observation from a former owner.

henningh

09-27-07, 12:59 PM

Isn't the Sherwood somewhat older than the Yamaha? Why would you even bother making that comparison?

bobpaule

09-27-07, 01:05 PM

You have a very valid point, and yes the Sherwood was a great improvement at the time i got it.

bfdtv

09-27-07, 01:26 PM

1) Persistent HDMI output. I had an Onkyo SR875 that would momentarily drop the video output when the source switched resolutions, and that'd cause a 6-8 second resync process in the projector. This is a big deal when surfing through various television channels since they all seem to use different resolutions. It was annoying enough that I put my Tivo to a permanent 720p output, and this means the Reon processor became useless for my HDTV broadcasts. I'd love a receiver that I could set to one resolution and know that the display will never have to resync from that resolution unless there were a frame rate change.Please put me down for this one too.

If the user sets the receiver to a fixed resolution such as 720p or 1080p, always keep the receiver output at that resolution, even when the source resolution changes. Don't resync the display when the source changes. Display a fixed black screen instead while the AVR switches to the new input resolution.

Zzz..oltan!

09-27-07, 02:20 PM

You have a very valid point, and yes the Sherwood was a great improvement at the time i got it.
Lófasz a seggedbe !

:eek::p:D

A tiedbe!

:D:D:D

Sherwood (or any other company for that matter) could innovate the most by releasing a receiver with the present and future in mind and forgetting about the past. I am thinking of features that are clearly obscolete AND pretty much nonexistent on other CURRENTLY MARKETED mainstream AV components. Why do we have to have composite inputs cluttering the back still??? And the list goes on...

I know, a lot of buyers still look for it but how 'bout bringing a product forward with CUTTING EDGE FEATURES ONLY? There is allways a a customer category who only keeps the most recent tech in their entertainment racks PLUS there are others who just bought their first quality setup, so it is as up-to-date as can be.)

This direction would really give an edge to a product AND also would help to keep the cost down even after incorporating those newer features. So you would have all the sought-after bells and whistles (well implemented) that generating buzzword right now!

I know - nobody has done that before - that is why it would WORK!

So how about a streamlined, cleaned-up version of the 972 following the currently planned "bloated" version a few months later? (But don't call it "972" call it "2009"!!!)

Not that's what I would call VISIONARY!

;)

DonoMan

09-27-07, 02:52 PM

It would probably cost more because fewer people would buy it :/

Seriously, though, get rid of all but a couple each of composite and S-video. Give us at least 4 component and add some extra HDMI to make up for it. 5 component + 5 HDMI for $1000 sounds about right to me :D

fresno1232001

09-27-07, 05:15 PM

bfdtv

09-29-07, 05:42 AM

Jeff- It seems that there is trouble in paradise over on the Onkyo 905 thread. Take a look at the last couple of days posts. Seems the Reon is changing the color of the image on some displays or something. Hard to comprehend what they are saying, but it appears to have to do with how Onkyo implemented the Reon. Seems Onkyo needs to do a firmware update of the Reon to correct it. You'll want to observe all this carefully to avoid the same issues with your Reon implementation in the 972. Also interesting discussion over there about how the Realta chip is fully programmable and can be updated with firmware upgrades as technology changes. Says Reon is partially upgradable. Still sure you want to go with Reon when Realta might future-prood the 972 even more?
Realta is significantly more expensive to implement. You're not going to get a Realta or Gennum GF9450 (my first choice) in a feature-laden $2000 receiver.

The Onkyo 905 converts 4:2:2 sources to 4:4:4 output, which creates very minor differences in output for some displays. This is 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 conversion is intended and there is nothing wrong with that.

Some posters also claim the 905 converts 4:2:2 sources to RGB before then converting to 4:4:4. If true, that is a serious problem. Some posts imply this happens only when on-screen display (OSD) is enabled, while at least one person suggests that it happens regardless. Another issue with the Onkyo is that it not provide selectable RGB/YPrPb output; it appears to output YPrPb to DVI displays when it should output RGB.

Edit: Since I made this post, others have confirmed that the YPrPb->RGB->YPrPb colorspace conversion issue is eliminated by turning off the Onkyo's on-screen display (OSD), which is normally used to provide an on-screen volume indicator and source display. The Onkyo manual also recommends disabling the OSD for best possible picture quality, and this would appear to be the reason why.

Hopefully Sherwood can take advantage of lessons learned from the Onkyo / Silicon Optix relationship. Provide selectable YPrPr (HDMI) and RGB (DVI) output and eliminate any unnecessary conversions to RGB. The ReonVX is a great chip with proven, high-quality deinterlace and scaling for both SD and HD signals. It is perhaps the only low-cost solution shipping in quantity that can reliably detect and deinterlace film-sourced content in a 1080i TV signals with IVTC.

Another option for Sherwood to consider is the just-released Anchor Bay ABT2010 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php), but as a new part, it may suffer from more firmware 'growing pains.' It may not be any better than the ReonVX.