Sherwood Newcastle R-872 & R-972 HDMI 1.3 receivers

[AudioBear]

Will the Outlaw also use Trinnov software? I wonder how they will differ as the Outlaw will most likely be significantly less expensive. Compared to the S/N receiver and yet to be formally anounced pre/pro, corners will have to be cut somehow.

I own a 990 and I have to tell you that they cut no corners and do some things that the S/N 965 doesn't (says he who has never seen the S/N and only knows this from forums). Outlaw is a phenomonal value just like S/N is building great stuff not only for themselves but for many others. I think the Outlaw costs less because of their business model--no B&M to support.

[AudioBear]

I don't think Outlaw would be using the Trinnov software, I haven't heard any rumors of it.


Now this will be interesting. Will they keep Trinnov to themselves and make their prescence felt in the market? Of will they supply it to the usual suspects like Outlaw? I always sort of assumed it would be in the Outlaw.

[profsbg]

Maybe they'll clone the R-872.

I dont think they can clone the R-872. That would mean licensing the proprietary 12 band SNAP and the adjustable 5 band parametric equalizer in the R-872.

Outlaw licensing Trinnov would be a huge step forward for them in room correction since they have none in their current line-up (as far as I know)

[facke02]

Now this will be interesting. Will they keep Trinnov to themselves and make their prescence felt in the market? Of will they supply it to the usual suspects like Outlaw? I always sort of assumed it would be in the Outlaw.
An interesting comment from Outlaw: "By switching hardware platforms, we have given the new product the robust computing power required to include a revolutionary new technology."


http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000046.html

[krholmberg]

Has anyone heard of a time table for the new Outlaw receivers and pre/pro? One would have to think they won't be out until next year as I can't imagine S/N coming out with R-972 and pre/pro later than the Outlaw units. It will be very interesting to see how they all compare. Differences may be subtle or not so subtle, and you're right about different aproaches to development and marketing.

[facke02]

Has anyone heard of a time table for the new Outlaw receivers and pre/pro? One would have to think they won't be out until next year as I can't imagine S/N coming out with R-972 and pre/pro later than the Outlaw units. It will be very interesting to see how they all compare. Differences may be subtle or not so subtle, and you're right about different aproaches to development and marketing.
Late fall to early winter.

[Dave G]

Late fall to early winter.

Translation: mid 2009.

[AudioBear]

Quote from the Outlaw e-mail to owners and mail-list:

"We estimate shipments of this new processor to begin late this fall or in early winter."

Take it for what it's worth....

[cybrsage]

Translation: mid 2009.

Unless they contracted the same disease striking Sherwood, then it will be mid 2010.

[tempus06]

Any news from stereojeff ? It's been a while since his last statement...

[facesnorth]

yawn...

[AudioBear]

Good point. I am not sure I can wait that long. I am not sure I can wait past about September or October and something tells me that I am not going to see it by then.

Is there a audio word for "vaporware"?

It's really too bad because I wanted to give this one a try.

[Crocodile]

I received a reply, 27 May 2008, to my direct-to-Sherwood/Newcastle email about the availability of the R-972. They replied the R-972 should be available in August. 2008. Hope this helps. I'm anxiously awaiting this unit myself. Thanks.

[AudioBear]

Did they say 2008? That's a positive sign. I will wait that long.....

[cybrsage]

Did they say 2008? That's a positive sign. I will wait that long.....

They initially said 2007.

I do hope they are going to get this product out soon, that way other manufacturers have to up their game.

[facesnorth]

One good thing for me is that my I'm happy with my 905 right now. I plan to add a 5 channel amp soon and use the 905 as a pre-pro. But then I will be shopping to trade up for a real pre-pro. Right now I'm thinking either the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885 (or it's successor) or the 972 pre-pro. This will probably happen sometime in the fall, so I have some time. But even if by some miracle the 972 drops in August, who knows when the pre-pro will come out? Good thing is that it would prevent me from adopting too early and help me wait and see how people really like it & work some bugs out.

[Crocodile]

Here is the verbatum exchange from the Sherwood/Newcastle folks on the availability and status of the R-972:


Please see our answers below.

Jeff Hipps
Sherwood America

>The R-972's availability?

Should be available in August, 2008.

> This model is not listed on the Sherwood/Newcastle Web Site, only the
> R-872. When searching the Web for the R-872, I found reference to,
> and information about the R-972, with a supposed March, 2008
> release/ship date.

Please see details attached.

> Also, will firmware updates be offered for this newer, far more
> sophisticated model R-972?
> Firmware updates have, apparently, become the "norm" with the newer,
> more sophisticated audio & video codecs.

The R-972 has been engineered to accept firmware updates.

[QZ1]

Are they still saying July for the R-872? Any specific week?

[Livin]

how does this company stay in business when they almost never put out products? :p

[hanser]

Ask Magnepan!

[AudioBear]

Remember that they build many of the popular receivers that are sold by major brands.

[yngdiego]

Remember that they build many of the popular receivers that are sold by major brands.

And at this rate, Sherwood will never be such a brand because they can't ship any real products on time. To become popular they need to actually SHIP new products and not just talk about them. They need to seriously look at their business model, as I doubt their current one is working very well.

[cybrsage]

I am just glad I did not wait, since I was going to buy in December of 2007 (which I did, just not a SN).

This is sad, as I really feel the 972 will be a great AVR when it does ship. But the problem is, by then everyone else will have an even better solution.

[AudioBear]

And at this rate, Sherwood will never be such a brand because they can't ship any real products on time. To become popular they need to actually SHIP new products and not just talk about them. They need to seriously look at their business model, as I doubt their current one is working very well.

Their business model to date has not been based on the products they develop; it has been that they make a profit by manufacturing for other brands. That's a perfectly good business model. The downside is that it doesn't require a huge R&D effort designed to develop new products so developing a totally new product is a challenge. Add to that the fact that they are trying something really new and unique with Trinnov---everybody else except Pioneer just chickened out and bought Audyssey (which is quite good). Then there were the chips that never materialized which have hurt many manusfacturers. I can understand their problem, I am just not happy with it. I planned to audition the 972 before deciding on my next move. I am going to wait until September or October and if it isn't here yet, I will move on.

[Kal___]

.... by then everyone else will have an even better solution.

... I planned to audition the 972 before deciding on my next move. I am going to wait until September or October and if it isn't here yet, I will move on.

My sentiments exactly. Right now I'm not in a great hurry and I'll take a good look at 972, since it will remain at the top of my list, but will also look at other players that will be bringing out their new/updated product lines in the fall.
Trinnov is definitely a big card but not the only one in the game. We'll see who wins.

[Robert Whitehead]

Does anone know for which companies Sherwood makes equipment? I gather from the above discussion that Outlaw is one.

[AudioBear]

They really don't say anything on their website about their manufacturing for other brands. They belong to a Korean company, Etronics which has a European sister company INKEL. They only talk about Sherwood products on their websites.

See:

http://www.inkel.co.kr
http://www.etronics.co.kr/english/newcompany/overseas.asp

You may also find their R-972 listing of interest--it looks like it's real on their website.

http://www.inkel.co.kr/english/av/R-972.asp

[AudioBear]

Yes Outlaw is one...

Anybody know others?

[krholmberg]

They really don't say anything on their website about their manufacturing for other brands. They belong to a Korean company, Etronics which has a European sister company INKEL. They only talk about Sherwood products on their websites.

See:

http://www.inkel.co.kr
http://www.etronics.co.kr/english/newcompany/overseas.asp

You may also find their R-972 listing of interest--it looks like it's real on their website.

http://www.inkel.co.kr/english/av/R-972.asp

The last link was interesting... especially the fact that the receiver was silver. I vaguely remember earlier in the thread Jeff saying they were switching the color to black (d/t popular demand). The unit and photos from CES '07 were silver. The photo might be of an empty case... or they may be offereing it in both colors.

[tempus06]

Both colors he said, the black color is in addition to the silver legacy , this is another picture from the German show :

http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/09/01/25/62/sherwo11.jpg

[muzz]

Wow this thread was started in January of 07, with a suspected release date of August 07, and the 972 STILL isn't released in late June of 08?

Talk about a paper launch!!
Hope not too many of you waited for this unit.....

[yngdiego]

I can say I'm disappointed with the amp specs on the receiver.

130W x 7 (1kHz, THD 0.05%)@8Ω / Only Channel

What is the full bandwidth rating? Rating at 1KHz isn't very useful and can be very misleading. I've heard others complain before how Sherwood rates their amp sections.

[krholmberg]

Both colors he said, the black color is in addition to the silver legacy , this is another picture from the German show :

http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/09/01/25/62/sherwo11.jpg

Thanks for the pic... and glad to hear it'll be available in black :cool:.

[Robert Whitehead]

100w x2 20-20K in Stereo Mode makes the 130 x 7 at 1k very suspicious.

You know the seven channel output from 20 to 20k can be no more than the 100 wpc in stereo mode, and probably will be less.

[Robert Whitehead]

Sherwood Newcastle R-972: Currently one year late. expected release: "sometime this summer"

Sherwood Newcastle Pre-Pro: Ha! Ha! Ha!

B&K Ref. 70, AVR 705/707: All one year late. Whenever you call B&K, Ref.70 will be released "next month" and rec'r's 3 months after that.

Add your own!

[FreddyW]

Sherwood Newcastle R-972: Currently one year late. expected release: "sometime this summer"

Sherwood Newcastle Pre-Pro: Ha! Ha! Ha!

B&K Ref. 70, AVR 705/707: All one year late. Whenever you call B&K, Ref.70 will be released "next month" and rec'r's 3 months after that.

Add your own!

Correction: 2 years late. It was CES 2006. Check start date of this thread.

[kokishin]

It was CES2007 (week of Jan 7th 2007). It's been over 19 months since I saw it on "display" at CES. They must be QA'ing the heck out of it ;-)

Correction: 2 years late. It was CES 2006. Check start date of this thread.

[yngdiego]

100w x2 20-20K in Stereo Mode makes the 130 x 7 at 1k very suspicious.

You know the seven channel output from 20 to 20k can be no more than the 100 wpc in stereo mode, and probably will be less.

Yup, I won't be buying the 972 with these amp specs. I'll hold out for the pre/pro....probably 2010. If Sherwood can't specify full 7 channel bandwidth amp ratings, they are hiding something.

[QZ1]

It was CES2007 (week of Jan 7th 2007). It's been over 19 months since I saw it on "display" at CES. They must be QA'ing the heck out of it ;-)
That is 18 mos. ago.;)

[krholmberg]

Well... I'm still waiting :D.

Sure it would be nice to have it already, but I'd rather they get it right. The main reason I'm holding out for it is the Trinnov Optimizer. The fact that a house curve for the low end can be dialed in and it has independant phase control as well as user selectable hi and low pass filters for the subwoofer are critical for me. I have a prosound amp driven IB subwoofer and this type of control really sets the R-972 apart from the competition.

I'm getting on outboard VP (mostly for gammut, greyscale and gamma correction) so although I'll test out the Reon processor, I need it to be able to pass through the incoming video signal unalterred. Having said that, if the Reon is better at deinterlacing and upscaling than the budget external VP, you can be sure it will be set to do those tasks :D.

Bring it on!

[Davespy]

I have purchased a few 772 models for past installs and called Sherwood direct to inquire about the release of the 872 and 972. I was told Aug 1st for the 872 but no date for the 972. I asked my distributor but they were not confident of that date.

[noah katz]

"Yup, I won't be buying the 972 with these amp specs."

That's getting a bit silly.

These power ratings don't mean much, unless you plan on running all-channel sine waves.

[yngdiego]

"Yup, I won't be buying the 972 with these amp specs."

That's getting a bit silly.

These power ratings don't mean much, unless you plan on running all-channel sine waves.

How is it silly? I want fully honest amp specs so I can compare it with other receivers. Providing only 1KHz numbers is artificially inflating the specs and is not in the interest of full disclosure.

If a company is trying to hide their specs, then what else are they hiding? They bother to tell us stereo full bandwidth specs, then change the rating criteria for surround sound to make it seem better than it is.

Personally I'd wait for a review where a third-party runs actual tests to determine the power. A few weeks ago someone PM'd me saying they won't buy Sherwood because of their less then up-front amp specs, and I agree.

[glennQNYC]

I want fully honest amp specs so I can compare it...

"Fully honest" specs? :confused:
I feel if you're really going to sweat amp specs, you probably want to consider using a separate/dedicated amp(s)... Or at least something higher-end than what is included in an $1800 retail receiver!

glennQ

[noah katz]

"How is it silly?"

Because you're ruling out a worthy contender based on a meaningless paper spec.

Even if the power is 70 W instead of 100, it's a barely perceptible 1.5 dB difference.

"I want fully honest amp specs so I can compare it with other receivers."

We all do, but it's not going to happen.

[AudioBear]

I just can't help myself--I know I'll start a flame war here. I know we all want hundreds of watts per channel but is it neccessary or is it some kind of testosterone thing? Maybe an insecurity thing--I'll get an amp so big it will never run out of gas....

Think about this:


Sound Pressure Level Comparison Between
Low and High Efficiency Speakers @ 1 Meter

1 watt = 85 dB -------------- 93 dB
2 watts = 88 dB ------------ 96 dB
4 watts = 91 dB ------------ 99 dB
8 watts = 94 dB ------------ 102 dB
16 watts = 97 dB ---------- 105 dB
32 watts = 100 dB -------- 108 dB
50 watts ~ 101.5 dB ------ 109.5 dB
64 watts = 103 dB --------- 111 dB
128 watts = 106 dB ------- 114 dB
200 watts ~ 108 dB ------- 116 dB
256 watts = 109 dB ------- 117 dB
512 watts = 112 dB ------- 120 dB

Amplifier power means nothing unless you speciify the speaker efficiency, the room size and the distance from the speaker. That said, most of us who listen to loud movie soundtracks and a good loud visceral volume level probably use a few watts contiinuous power and only on the loudest explosions and dinosaur footsteps do we momentarily use 25 or 50 watts. What the table says is that efficient speakers are a much better investment than big amplifiers. More important than watts per channel is instantaneous power available and headroom, but instead of thinking about that most of us buy watts. A 50 watt amp is a lot of power and most of us could probably live with it. It does not help that manufacturers have been trying to sell by pushing watts. It's about the same as megapixels on cameras. More megapixels aren't necessarily better either--it's all advertising.

Some audiophiles are stlll enjoying 5 and 10 watt tube amps that play very very loudly through efficient speakers.

All of this said, wouldn't it be nice if there were some honest standards and a standard way of reporting amp power? It is truly annoying when manufacturers pick a favorable spec. to give themselves the most watts.

Another point is that there are watts and then there are watts. 75 pure clean wpc with lots of headroom (say maybe a Bryston amp) can have a lot more clout than some 200 wpc designs. You can design 1000watt amplifers that sound like dirt but they put out power.

Let's get off the watts and see how the thing actually sounds.....which brings us back to the point. When will the R-972 make an appearance so that we can actually listen to it and see if it has enough clean power?

[SimpleTheater]

"Fully honest" specs? :confused:
I feel if you're really going to sweat amp specs, you probably want to consider using a separate/dedicated amp(s)... Or at least something higher-end than what is included in an $1800 retail receiver!

glennQYou can pick up the NAD T775 (which I own) for not much more than $1,800 and you will be getting one serious amp. I admit the MSRP is $2,500, but when these Sherwoods are new the discount won't be very large, so the NAD would be price competitive.

[SimpleTheater]

All of this said, wouldn't it be nice if there were some honest standards and a standard way of reporting amp power? It is truly annoying when manufacturers pick a favorable spec. to give themselves the most watts.
I agree. Paradigm, as just one example, spells out in their manuals the danger of using amplifiers that aren't powerful enough. Stating that under powered amps are MORE dangerous to your speaker than amplifiers that are too powerful - because they'll pump too much distortion into your speakers.

That said - how does one truly know about power when manufacturers bend the true values. One of my favorite reviews was this one (http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/605sony/), where a 100 watt x 7 channel Sony, while being pushed on only five of those seven channels, only squeaked out 33 watts. Compared with the 70 watt NAD (http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/105nad/) that pumped out 94 watts on five channels.

So the guy with the Sony gets a movie with a 15 second full-surround sound explosion and may end up bitching his speakers blew (but because of the amp, not the speaker), the guy with the NAD, not only has speakers that still work, but gets the satisfaction of hearing the full impact of that movie scene.

I've hear that the following companies are conservative in their power ratings: NAD, Outlaw, Rotel, B&K (I'm certain their are a few others)

[AudioBear]

I agree. Paradigm, as just one example, spells out in their manuals the danger of using amplifiers that aren't powerful enough. Stating that under powered amps are MORE dangerous to your speaker than amplifiers that are too powerful - because they'll pump too much distortion into your speakers.



In particular when you run an amp to 100% power output it is called clipping. Clipping is essentially a straight DC voltage to your speakers and it will fry them. Good amps have soft-clipping or other kinds of clipping protection and some speakers have fast fuses to protect themselves but you really don't want to be clipping--it sounds bad. Paradigm is correct is saying small amps can be worse than large amps.

There are two sides of the coin, however. Paradigm and Anthem are part of the same company. Anthem makes some very nice amps. I happen to have a PVA-7 that I am using while I decide which receiver or separates to buy next. It is a very nice amp. Excellent on all counts and it has plenty of power. But it's 7X125wpc. I suspect those are conservatively rated wpc, but in any case you have a company that makes speakers saying that 125wpc is enough for a 7-channel amp. Alternatively you could aregue that they don't consult one another. What I don't know is what this amp will do with all channels driven but I can tell you that I never have to turn the volume control up very high and it never heats up. I doubt that the Anthem amp is built to kill Paradigm speakers.

Face it, we are in a watts per channel race. People want tons of watts and manufacturers are giving them big numbers. In the absence of standardized testing you can't directly compare. People who make good amps tend to give you useful specs that tell alot about their amps--but not always.

Most people would not notice much difference, or a big difference, between a good receiver and an external amp hooked to the same receiver either. Audiophiles probably can tell the difference but it is usually not drammatic. Speakers are the weak link in the audio chain. Spend your money on better speakers.

[noah katz]

"75 pure clean wpc with lots of headroom (say maybe a Bryston amp) can have a lot more clout than some 200 wpc designs."

You lost me there. If the watts are real, the former runs out of headroom at 75 W and the latter at 200 W.

Perhaps you're referring to dynamic power available for short periods of time, which IMO is more important than continuous power, and which is why I don't think the power ratings mean much.

[AudioBear]

Yes, headroom is a measure of the ability to respond to peaks. And yes it's the transients that tax amplifiers because few of us run at 200 wpc RMS or even 75wpc.

Crown has a great explanation of how much power you need at:

http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

and even a calculator at:

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm#

But remember, Crown is selling amplifiers. That said these are very nicely done pages and they spec their amps thoroughly and honestly.

[AudioBear]

The calculator shows that at 12 ft (4 m) away if you want 90 dB (pretty loud pop music) and your speakers have 90 dB Watt at 1 meter and you want 6dB headroom you need only a 64 watt amp.

If your speakers are 86 dB/watt at 1 meter though you need 160 watts
If you want 100 dB (painfully loud) you need 637 watts to have 6 dB.

If you sit a little closer (3 ) you need only 36 watts.

So until you define your room and listening habits and distance and desired headroom it's hard to say if an amp is weak or adequate.

[odditory]

To hell with the R972 - I'm waiting for a P972 to pair with a NAD M25.

[AudioBear]

good idea.

BTW, I was just trying to keep this thread alive with all the amp talk. The total absence of news is distressing....

[B&W700guy]

what about HDMI 1.4?;)

[facesnorth]

To hell with the R972 - I'm waiting for a P972 to pair with a NAD M25.

I'm with you. If it lives up to expectation I may jump on the P972 instead of my planned Onkyo Pro 885P (or 886 if that ever comes out) to replace my Onkyo 905 once I pick up a decent 200wpcx7 amp.

[yngdiego]

To hell with the R972 - I'm waiting for a P972 to pair with a NAD M25.

I'm waiting for the pre-pro as well but to heck with old style amps, I'm going to get a D-Sonic ICEpower amp. 250w L/C/R, 125W rears.

[broke_ht_nut]

good idea.

BTW, I was just trying to keep this thread alive with all the amp talk. The total absence of news is distressing....

Yep its pretty sad. Newcastle are simply unreliable. I am actually put off by it all because if they can't deliver on time repeatedly I would be concerned about their ability to produce anything reliable and from some of the other threads I have read they are no exactly brilliant as providing firmware upgrades to correct problems either.

[cybrsage]

what about HDMI 1.4?;)

I think you figured it out. SN is waiting for HDMI 1.4 to be finalized, that way they can have the first HDMI 1.4 AVR.

[B&W700guy]

I'm waiting for the pre-pro as well but to heck with old style amps, I'm going to get a D-Sonic ICEpower amp. 250w L/C/R, 125W rears.

How do you like the sound on the ice amps when you reviewed them?

[yngdiego]

How do you like the sound on the ice amps when you reviewed them?

Haven't reviewed them yet..waiting to settle on the receiver/pre-pro. But from all accounts it kicks ass.

[B&W700guy]

I think you figured it out. SN is waiting for HDMI 1.4 to be finalized, that way they can have the first HDMI 1.4 AVR.

Correct;)

[B&W700guy]

Haven't reviewed them yet..waiting to settle on the receiver/pre-pro. But from all accounts it kicks ass.

Shouldn't you listen to them first before you buy:(

[Robert Whitehead]

Absolutely not! Listening to it before buying it can only endanger preconceived notions of how good it is. Better to buy it unheard with nothing to compare it to.

[jdskycaster]

I'm waiting for the pre-pro as well but to heck with old style amps, I'm going to get a D-Sonic ICEpower amp. 250w L/C/R, 125W rears.

What are old style amps? Something from the 50's or were you referring to that once great beer brewed in "gods country"?

[yngdiego]

What are old style amps? Something from the 50's or were you referring to that once great beer brewed in "gods country"?

Meaning non digital amps. ICEpower are digital amps which emit vastly less heat than traditional power-hungry and inefficient amps. They also weigh significantly less, as well. There are other digital amps as well, but ICEpower seems to be the most popular.

[B&W700guy]

Meaning non digital amps. ICEpower are digital amps which emit vastly less heat than traditional power-hungry and inefficient amps. They also weigh significantly less, as well. There are other digital amps as well, but ICEpower seems to be the most popular.

Popular....Bose, mp3, does this mean they are the best? I have not listen to an ICE unit, but before I would state "They are the best" I would listen first;) My only negative comment is that the one you mentioned doesn’t come with a minimum 5 year warranty :(

[rhale64L7]

Well guys and girls it seems as though the Cirrus chip debacle is finally over. As Jason Barbour has said over in the Cary Cinema 11 thread. Boy it will be interesting to see who gets these things shipped out first. It should also be interesting to see who gets it right and who doesn't.;)

[yngdiego]

Well guys and girls it seems as though the Cirrus chip debacle is finally over. As Jason Barbour has said over in the Cary Cinema 11 thread. Boy it will be interesting to see who gets these things shipped out first. It should also be interesting to see who gets it right and who doesn't.;)

Can you elaborate?

[catapult]

Popular....Bose, mp3, does this mean they are the best? I have not listen to an ICE unit Well, ICEpower can't be too bad if companies like BelCanto, Mark Levinson, PS Audio and Jeff Rowland are using it. Maybe it's not the best you can buy but I'm pretty sure it doesn't suck. :)

[B&W700guy]

Well, ICEpower can't be too bad if companies like BelCanto, Mark Levinson, PS Audio and Jeff Rowland are using it. Maybe it's not the best you can buy but I'm pretty sure it doesn't suck. :)

I never said it was bad...or good, heck it could be the best:). He used the term Popular. Also he made an authoritative statement about the performance and he had never listen to them:(

[Tim Christianson]

This is what Ron was talking about from the Cary thread...........

We are sincerely busting our humps to get the 11a shipping by Cedia. We are not holding out on purpose.

After months and months of waiting for Dolby and DTS to finally get their stuff together with Cirrus on this new chip, as of this week, BOTH audio codecs have been approved. Dolby was finalized and approved months ago, but we have been waiting on DTS. Cirrus Logic submitted over 27 sample chips to DTS over the course of the last few months, all of which were rejected by DTS. Well, DTS has finally approved the DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA audio codecs so now we can all finally move forward!

We have been testing beta units for the last few weeks, but none of these test samples was a final, fully operational unit. We've fully tested Dolby Plus and Dolby True HD and they sound absolutely fantastic. I am blown away every time I sit down to perform some testing with TrueHD. We have also been really testing the HD Radio tuner and all of it's functions. This is the first unit we have done with this technology and we have run into some small and simple operational bugs with the text display and so forth, but all are easily corrected with software.

Now that DTS has FINALLY approved their codec on the chipset, we can have test samples built with finalized chipsets. So, by the end of this month, we hope to have a 3 or 4 fully functional, final production units on hand for final testing. This is where we will test all of the functions together on one unit, all operating properly at once as opposed to having one unit that only HD Radio is active on, or one unit with only the HDMI inputs active for testing Dolby TrueHD etc.

We have had our order for the chipsets in to Cirrus Logic for a long time now, but Cirrus could not ship anything to us until the chips had been finalized. Now that everything has been (finally) finalized, it is up to Cirrus to begin programming the finalized chips and ship them to us. Assuming that all of the final testing taking place at the end of this month with full production units goes according to plan as we expect it to, we will at that point, begin production. Production only takes roughly 1 to 2 weeks so shipping would begin immediately after.

Someone asked earlier about the room setup feature; This unit has a redesigned "room setup" assistant that is, according to Cirrus, much better than their previous effort on the original Cinema 11. I have not been able to test this myself, but will do so in the coming weeks.

If everything goes according to plan, we should be shipping these units within the first week of September. Please keep in mind though that some unexpected issue may still arise that could, unfortunately, delay us once more as we have unfortunately seen time and time again, but we do not think there will be anything other than minor software adjustments to correct small bug issues.

Take care,

Jason Barbour
National Sales Manager
Cary Audio Design

[rhale64L7]

Can you elaborate?

Yes it seems as though DTS was the holdup. And the chips have finally met there requirements. You can go over to the Cary 11A thread and read it for yourself. I believe Jason Barbour is the CEO of Cary Audio. The chips are supposed to be shipped out very soon to the different manufacturers. I sure hope so.

[noah katz]

I forget, was this chip holding up the R-972?

[rhale64L7]

Supposedly yes. It was holding up a lot of companies products. This is supposed to be the latest greatest. I am hoping you guys will here from Jeff shortly. There will be no more excuses.

[gwb2005]

Just curious... I see that the R872 is out... Anyone tried it out? Worth the wait??

I am still waiting for the 972... Seems by the lack of recent activity here - I might be one of the dwindling masses (or minority)... :(

[stikle]

I see that the R-972 is no longer on SN's product page...good thing I was only interested in the R-872 anyway.

www(dot)sherwoodusa(dot)com/nc_cat_av.html

[cybrsage]

I wonder if they gave up on it?

[hok007]

I've never seen the R-972 on their product page (after starting to look about a year ago). Was it ever there?

[facesnorth]

Just curious... I see that the R872 is out... Anyone tried it out? Worth the wait??

I am still waiting for the 972... Seems by the lack of recent activity here - I might be one of the dwindling masses (or minority)... :(

There had been a bit of talk lately but it was all wiped out with the AVS server failure.

To be honest the news was fairly sleepworthy, but the 972's are coming out soon.

[Haydenspass]

I see that the R-972 is no longer on SN's product page...

I have just checked on the German page at www(dot)sherwood-mba(dot)de/product_info.php/products_id/46 and they still have the R-972 listed with a price tag. Let's see and wait if they also remove it. :D

[T2k]

I see that the R-972 is no longer on SN's product page...good thing I was only interested in the R-872 anyway.

www(dot)sherwoodusa(dot)com/nc_cat_av.html

I have just checked on the German page at www(dot)sherwood-mba(dot)de/product_info.php/products_id/46 and they still have the R-972 listed with a price tag. Let's see and wait if they also remove it. :D

:rolleyes:

What is this idiotic (dot)com thing, I don't know...

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/nc_cat_av.html

http://www.sherwood-mba.de/product_info.php/products_id/46

This way people might even check it out...

:rolleyes:

[fish1717]

Hey guys I called Sherwood yesterday and spoke with Customer Service. She told me that the R-972 is expected to be released sometime in October.

She also said to call back in a couple weeks for more information. So it sounds like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[cybrsage]

:rolleyes:

What is this idiotic (dot)com thing, I don't know...

This way people might even check it out...

:rolleyes:

You have to have 5 (maybe 6) posts before you can post a URL. It keeps the spambots away.

He only had three posts, so he did the best he could.

It has been a long time since you were at that low postcount, so you forgot. ;)

[cybrsage]

Hey guys I called Sherwood yesterday and spoke with Customer Service. She told me that the R-972 is expected to be released sometime in October.

She also said to call back in a couple weeks for more information. So it sounds like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Ah, but did she give you a year? In October, it will have been delayed around 2 years.

[fish1717]

Yeah she said October this year, at least that's what she implied. Yeah this is ridiculous it was first announced in 07, I'm starting to get impatient.

[QZ1]

Ah, but did she give you a year? In October, it will have been delayed around 2 years.
It was announced at CES '07, and was scheduled for August '07, which makes it 1 year and 2 mos. late, it just seems like it has been more time.;)

[RoboRay]

It was announced at CES '07, and was scheduled for August '07, which makes it 1 year and 2 mos. late, it just seems like it has been more time.;)

I waited for it from January '07 when it was first discussed here until May '08 when I finally gave up and bought an Onkyo 885 pre-pro.

[QZ1]

I waited for it from January '07 when it was first discussed here until May '08 when I finally gave up and bought an Onkyo 885 pre-pro.
You ain't the only one who didn't wait. Three people on this thread, myself included, bought Denon 3808CI AVRs instead. The posts were lost with the system crash.

[krholmberg]

Hey guys I called Sherwood yesterday and spoke with Customer Service. She told me that the R-972 is expected to be released sometime in October.

She also said to call back in a couple weeks for more information. So it sounds like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Is that when production is supposed to start or when the R-972 is supposed to hit the retailer's shelves? If it is the former, it might not be until the Christmas rush happens that they will be available. I hope SN is able to hit that mark... if not, they are in real trouble.

[facke02]

Hey guys I called Sherwood yesterday and spoke with Customer Service. She told me that the R-972 is expected to be released sometime in October.

She also said to call back in a couple weeks for more information. So it sounds like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

That makes sense, I got the following reply from Jeff on 8/7 when I asked about the status...

"The R-972 continues to make good progress but has been a little slower than we anticipated. Line pre-production for the R-972 is scheduled for next week. Mass production usually follows within 60 days. Due to the delays in the R-972 we have postponed the pre/pro."

[DonoMan]

A little, huh?

[Desmo888]

At this point in time, what is another 6 months for the Pre/Pro. I started a fund back in '07 for the new receiver and will be able to pull the trigger on the P-972 when it comes out and have the luxury of reading all of the reviews on the "R" modle.

I hate waiting, but if it doesn't meet expectations (which I doubt), then I will still be in a good position to get something else.

[cybrsage]

It was announced at CES '07, and was scheduled for August '07, which makes it 1 year and 2 mos. late, it just seems like it has been more time.;)

True, I was counting the time from the official announcement.

[jotronic]

First in Canada? Yes. First in North America??? Maybe.

First impressions:

I have been using an older Newcastle R-863 which has been a loaner of sorts from a friend. It's about seven years old and has served me well till the 872 arrived. First thing I noticed is that the 872 is lighter, maybe by 10 pounds but the 863 certainly was a beast.

It's BLACK! Very nice aesthetics and while it has the logos of everyone and their brother they're low key, white outlined, and in small font so it's rather tastefully adorned. I actually knew ahead of time that all 872's as well as 972's would be black and I was pretty happy about it. Nothing against the pewter of old but black just goes better with the rest of my gear.

The packaging was pretty straightforward and everything seemed to be well protected.

After unplugging all the wires from the R-863 I pulled it out, wiped it down and set it aside. Plugged all the wires back into the 872 and immediately noticed the thoughtful placement of labels as being sideways so the you can read what is what and what goes where without having to look directly at the back. I thought this was pretty cool so I didn't have to pull my cabinet out too far to be able to see what I was doing.

Overall construction seemed to be pretty solid but I can say that the 863 is a more solidly built unit, not that the 872 is a hastily thrown together heap 'cause it's not.

Once I had all the wires hooked up including the power cable I fired it up. First thing I noticed was the yellow standby light. I haven't seen this on a unit before but I am not really experienced with every other unit out there so maybe this isn't too unique but I thought it looked nice against the black bezel. Once the unit is actually on the light turns to blue.

The display is pretty straight forward and not much different than other units. The OSD is not a GUI like the 972 but is very straight forward.

The remote is rather confusing but keep in mind I start playing around with it without reading too much into the manual. Because of this I handily got "lost" and the remote seemed to lock up but I think I engaged something that I shouldn't have. Further experimentation and I had the unit up and running in about ten minutes after I fired it up. I then read the manual.

The speaker calibration with SNAP EQ was straight forward and uneventful.

While video upconversion is not why I bought this unit I was curious about it. The options vary from 480p up to 1080p ( not just 1080i) and I engaged this with my standard def Samsung DVD player. Meh, not much of an improvement if any.

For HDMI switching it works flawlessly but there seems to be a several second audio delay when switching sources and even pausing and restarting my DVR. There is a lip-sync option that is set by the millisecond and I think I already have my DVR lip-sync problem sorted with the addition of this receiver.

I spent about an hour listening to different tracks on CD then piped through my PC as MP3's. I LIKE what I hear. I could tell a bigger difference between my mp3's and regular CD's with this unit vs. the older 863 as some of my less than stellar mp3's, while tolerable on the 863, are not on the 872. I can just hear too much degradation which makes the clarity of this unit a double edged sword I guess.

I unfortunately am between HD disc players as I haven't replaced my HD-DVD player yet so I cannot comment on HD audio yet.


Oh, btw, the cool thing is that my Harmony 880 works with this unit right out of the box. I only have to make a few minor adjustments for it to be 100%.

http://farm4.static.flickr.co/3192/2779948225_b4131c80f6_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.co/3054/2780806752_9c4d7b4b8f_o.jpg

[T2k]

Nice. What's the pricetag?

[cybrsage]

Thanks for the review! Sounds promising!

[krholmberg]

It's nice to read some feedback from our first "official" owner on this thread. Glad you're happy. Please continue the feedback as you spend more time with it.

[RolandOG]

You ain't the only one who didn't wait. Three people on this thread, myself included, bought Denon 3808CI AVRs instead. The posts were lost with the system crash.

I gave up as well and bought a Marantz 7002, which I'm very happy with. I hope the 972 eventually comes out and does well. I still think it's got great potential.

[Volcan]

I am a fan of the R-972, at least as much of a fan as you can be without having actually seen it or heard it:). I ordered an R-972 in February and the dealer loaned me an R-772 until it comes in. I know the R-972 will be here soon, but now that so much time has passed, I want to take a fresh look. The R-772 has worked very well and I am quite happy with it. However, I would like more inputs so for that reason alone it is not a long term solution for me. Also, with the rest of my system I could probably benefit from better electronics. My 5.1 setup uses three Usher BE-718s across the front with the R and L bi-amped and the Center bi-wired with two BG R18i surrounds and a pair of ACI Force XL subs, one in each front corner. 60” Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO150-FD handles the video processing, rather than the R-772. Using a Panasonic BD30 Bluray player and an old NAD 502 CD player that still sounds pretty good but I am thinking an upgrade is in order.

The easy most affordable solution is to go with the R-872. I spend a little more and get the inputs and things would probably be fine.

Do you think there would be much benefit in moving from the R-872 to the R-972? My room is about 15’ deep by 20’ wide with the TV mounted on the long wall, one row of comfy seating and electronics behind.

Am I likely to notice a difference in dropping more $ and going to separates, particularly the Marantz AV8003 and MM8003? The Maranzt duo is a 8.1 system so I could bi-amp my center and have three identical bi-amped speakers across the front. I have a network hub set up at the equipment rack serving an xbox and am intrigued with the streaming network features of the Marantz. Obviously I could add a squeezebox or transporter but it looks like the Marantz by itself could handle redbook and Netflix streams (still checking on this). I can add the future version of the squeezebox/transportor/sonos etc for 24/96 or even 24/192 downloads. I am sure the separates will sound better but will cost >2X as much.

Is this a “go with the R-872 or Marantz pair choice depending on $” or is the R-972 a good choice in between?

All opinions welcome – thanks!

[QZ1]

I gave up as well and bought a Marantz 7002, which I'm very happy with.
I was all set on the SR7002 for a while, but finally just didn't like, that I would have to send it in for firmware updates; very good AVR nonetheless.:)

[BobL]

Being an installer and having used both brands I will say that they are both very good. I'll leave subjective sound differences to others opinions. We haven't tried the new R-872 yet but the 772 has been a solid performer.

The only dislikes of the R-772 and it sounds like this might continue with the R-872 is it take a few seconds to lock onto an audio signal. Sometimes you will notice this when changing channels and a few times going between commercials and program material but always when switching inputs. Although this is a small annoyance I do have to say that we have had no HDMI problems/ compatabilities with this unit and that is a big plus that outwieghs the minor annoyance. We haven't such luck with other brands, Marantz has been OK for the above poster.

The user adjustable Parametric EQ should be available for the subwoofer channel. Also, the EQ shouldn't be band limited. Not a problem just me wanting more:-)

The video processor is OK but nothing special. I don't expect much at the R-772 price level so this is not a criticism.

The R-772 does feel lighter than some of the previous models and compared to other models in the same price range. Although lighter it does have a nice build quality with decent binding posts and gold plated connectors that don't feel flimsy like some other brands.

Anyway, the BIG advantage of the R-972 (and eventually the P-972) shoud be the Trinnov EQ. I've only heard demos of this system not Sherwood's demo but Trinnov's $15,000 EQ and I am waiting to test this is some real rooms. Most EQs correct for frequency and some correct for time as well. What Trinnov does is try to correct for imaging and soundstage as well as frequency and time. If it works as well as some of the demos it should be a fabulous feature at a great price point.

If you don't need a receiver today then I'd consider waiting for this unit. It might be the one to beat. Time will tell.

Bob

[Volcan]

Thanks for your thoughts BobL

Yes I have noticed the audio delay with the R772 when switching sources, which is not a concern and when switching channels, a definite annoyance but it would not keep me from getting the R-872 if it acted the same way. the audio dely when changing channels seems worse when going from HD to standard TV and vice versa, perhaps because there is sometimes a shift from 5.1 to 2 channels.

My only other issue with the R-772 is with the remote. There is a bit of a dealy, about one minute before it works for me after I power up the system from standby. It is actually quite good in that it can be set to RF or IR. Because my equipment is behind me, I have it set to RF. Unfrotunately I can only control the receiver and not other components when set to RF and for some reason I thought that I might be able to control the other components with macros and and IR repeater from the receiver which I thight that the 972 will do A universal remote is likley in my future.

No problems with HDMI and automatic switching for audio sources, it has been great in this regard.

[BobL]

It will be interesting to see what gets announced at CEDIA in a few weeks. If the R-972 ships reasonably soon and no other company announces a similar EQ system it could still be a year ahead of the competition even with all the delays. I'm lookng forward to getting one to test.

Bob

[Livin]

WOW

I have not looked at this thread since about page 6 (+-)... just saw it pop up on the front of the list... I think it is funny that this topic is still alive, people are still waiting and still BSing about this.

Anyone want to buy swamp land?

Why not go buy something from a company that actually puts out equipment?

Oh wait... I have a company. How about everyone send me a $200 downpayment on the ultimate pre/pro in the world... has every feature everyone has asked for on this thread, and more... it will start your HT popcorn maker too... has built-in X10 and Zwave.

Send the $200 NOW and the unit will be out in 1 year... "Newcastle" time

hahahahaha

<flame on, I will not read the thread anyway>

[Southern Spy]

Do you think there would be much benefit in moving from the R-872 to the R-972?

Bobl has outlined the Trinnov capabilities that hopefully will come to full potential in the consumer model. Another difference is the new Cirrus Logic chipset used in the R872 vs the older dual TI set to be used in the R972.

After the 972 is released it will be interesting to hear a 872 vs 972 side by side demo - especially in stereo.

It would be ironic if the 872 has less HDMI incompatibility issues vs 972 due to chipset selection as well.

[jotronic]

I can confirm that the 872 has the delay when picking up the audio via HDMI. This happens during each channel change, each input change as well as switching from an HD signal to an SD signal. I cannot say that I have noticed a difference in the delay when comparing HD to SD vs. input/channel changing. It all appears to be about the same and while it is a slight annoyance it is certainly something I can live with.

I can also confirm that there is a separate user adjustable sub channel for those that like to really tweak their settings.

So, I've had the 872 for two days now and last night I finally had a chance to get deeper into the details on setting it up. I ran the SNAP EQ setup again as I didn't feel that it picked everything up the first time the way it should have. Sure enough, after running it again the sound became much more to my liking and is now in line with what I have come to expect from SN.

I have to say however that I agree with Volcan regarding the remote. It is powerful indeed however it is very temperamental. Part of this observation is from lack of experience with it but it is simply NOT an intuitive remote. Once I am more used to the layout of the unit however I will be able to pack the remote away and use only my Logitech 880 of which I am almost ready to do now anyway because as I mentioned in my previous post the 872 is using the same frequency/code setup as my old 863 unit so there isn't really much programming I have to do to my 880 as it is.

One thing that I wasn't sure about was if the 872 has Dolby Virtual Speaker. I can report that it does.

The only "bug" that I can report thus far is that when switching between HD channels and SD channels I have noticed that the color is off in SD. I don't think the main characters on Stargate SG-1 are supposed to have blue faces:( but hopefully this is only a setting issue and not a true bug. I'll report back when/if I figure this out.

Overall though, I'm SUPER happy with the 872. I've had this thing on order since early January and I can honestly say it has been worth the wait. I am very interested however in the 972 and may upgrade when it becomes available but that will only be after I hear it in person at my local dealer. The good thing is that I'll be able to use my exact same speaker setup (Wharfedales) and in a room that is almost exactly the same dimensions as my living room.

[jotronic]

One more observation regarding the audio delay. When I have a CD in my DVD player there is a delay between tracks. In other words, when on track ends and another begins the audio kicks in at about three seconds into the track. I have not tried this with component connections, only HDMI. I'm hoping there is a setting to adjust for this but it didn't bother me enough last night to investigate. Will update further as I learn more.

[noah katz]

Bob, jotronic,

Does the audio delay occur w/DVD between previews, extras, etc?

That would be very annoying.

How about switching FM stations? I wouldn't think it would with an analog source, but that would be a showstopper if it did.

Thanks

[jotronic]

Noah,

I hadn't played a DVD till last night when I read your question. I can happily report that there is no delay between CD tracks nor DVD previews. I have not listened to radio yet.

One problem I could not sort out is the issue with SD television. HD comes through wonderfully but any SD channels I view have bad color. Everyone is blue like a smurf. After some experimentation I discovered that the receiver has been trying to upconvert the SD signal to 1080p and I cannot figure out how to cancel this. I switched the video conversion to "auto" with no effect. It looks so far like there is no option to disengage video upscaling to "off" and I found no mention of it in the manual. I'll investigate further because this is an issue that bugs me even though I rarely watch SD channels.

Aside from this the unit is working great. As mentioned, I watched my first DVD with the unit last night (Star Wars Ep III) and the surround was much better than my last unit. I did have an issue with getting the surround speakers to work but the problem was with my DVD player, not the receiver. I had to switch to "bitstream" output on the player for all channels to kick in.

Will update as I learn more.

[ggunnell]

A Sherwood dealer told me he had heard that Trinnov had been purchased by D&M Holdings. Can anyone confirm this?

[stikle]

One problem I could not sort out is the issue with SD television. HD comes through wonderfully but any SD channels I view have bad color. Everyone is blue like a smurf. After some experimentation I discovered that the receiver has been trying to upconvert the SD signal to 1080p and I cannot figure out how to cancel this. I switched the video conversion to "auto" with no effect. It looks so far like there is no option to disengage video upscaling to "off" and I found no mention of it in the manual. I'll investigate further because this is an issue that bugs me even though I rarely watch SD channels.
That's a little concerning. We watch a variety of programming...flipping between SD & HD. I just told my stereo guy to order my R-872 too.

[noah katz]

jotronic, thanks good to hear.

[yngdiego]

A Sherwood dealer told me he had heard that Trinnov had been purchased by D&M Holdings. Can anyone confirm this?

If that's true, I'd love to get Trinnov on Denon receivers and not be promised vaporware by some hard to buy vendor.

[Classico]

If that's true, I'd love to get Trinnov on Denon receivers and not be promised vaporware by some hard to buy vendor.


Don't hold your breath--either for a Denon purchase-- or a Sherwood release.

Classico

[tempus06]

No Trinnov hasn't been purchased by D&M Holdings, there are no info on this on both of their site and the specialized press.

I have also looked the French websites : nothing.

[Classico]

I have discovered WHY the 972 is coming out so LATE!

Sherwood Newcastle is busy readying its LINE of BluRay players and LCD TVs.
I am certain this is EXCITING news to everyone who is waiting for the R-972.
Read all about it: http://www.twice.com/article/CA6590382.html

I am STILL confused though. Why come out ONLY with BonusView 1.1 when version 2.0 is being released. But then again, not everyone needs or wants to go ONLINE with their movies.

It appears that these products will arrive just about the time the 972 shows up--OR NOT!

Classico

[DonoMan]

awesome, more products we'll never see

[RoboRay]

I find it unlikely that a receiver would be delayed by development of a disk player.

[cybrsage]

I lost track, what is the current miss date for shipping?

[Robert Whitehead]

"When the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars; When peace will guide the planets and love will rule the stars."

Latest from SN.

[Classico]

I find it unlikely that a receiver would be delayed by development of a disk player.

Any port in a storm

[samsurd2]

"When the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars; When peace will guide the planets and love will rule the stars."

Latest from SN.The 5th Dimension will not be amused...but I am. :D

[Gixxer_Floss]

I am going mad with indecision, so please help me :confused:

I am a noob when it comes to home theatre, though I like toys and gadgets and am reasonably tech savvy I think. I have been reading these forums for a few weeks and have learnt a lot, but I cannot make a decision about what AV receiver to buy.

I have narrowed it down to 2, based on budget and local availabiity (I live in Hong Kong and they are the same price here ~ US$ 575):

1. Sherwood Newcastle R-872 (sherwoodusa.com/prod_r872.html)
2. Denon AvR-1909 (usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4241.asp)

On paper I really like the specs of the Sherwood, particularly:

- video for zone 2 (bedroom LCD)
- RF remote hopefully can be used in bedroom to switch inputs (~7m away from receiver through one door)
- extra HDMI input
- more optical inputs
- 8 pre-amp outputs (I probably won't use, but you never know...)
- on screen display visible on ALL video outputs incl. HDMI
- convert HDMI input to component out (big deal for me - could Jotronic pls confirm it works)


The thing holding me back are all the amazing reviews I've been reading here about the Audyssey MultiEQ, DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume. If I buy the Sherwood am I really missing out on the Audyssey experience? Will the Denon simply sound better?

Does the Sherwood's SNAP EQ compare?

Also how does the Sherwood's Faroudja 2301 video chip comapre to the one in the Denon? I will want the receiver to upscale SD TV and satellite signals.

My room is 16 feet by 16 feet.
Current speakers:
Wharfedale valdus 500 fronts
Tannoy Mercury M1 rears
Boston Accoustics CR400 sub
I will buy a new centre along with the receiver.

Sorry for so many questions, but I really want to go buy my receiver tomorrow and I just can't decide. I figure you guys can give me a much more informed comparison.


(hope it's OK - I posted in the R-872 thread and 1909 thread also)

[jotronic]

"- convert HDMI input to component out"

Are you asking if it is supposed to or if it actually does? I haven't tried it as all my inputs are HDMI. If you want me to, I'll try it out though with component. I know it is supposed to be possible.

As far as the Faroujda chip, it works fine save for the SD issue I mentioned before.

SNAP EQ on this unit works very well. I cannot compare to the new Audessey but I like what I hear and have zero complaints. So far, the surround has exceeded my expectations.

I see you are running Wharfedales in your setup. I personally feel that Newcastle and Wharfedales go VERY well together and that is what I'm running with my unit along with a WD center and sub and Klipsch surrounds.

Regarding my SD issue, I've come to find out that there is no option for straight pass-through of the video signal. I'm not sure which receiver out there allows this though (anyone?).

What this receiver does is give you several settings for upscaling. They are "auto" "480p" "720p" "1080i" and "1080p". By setting the receiver to auto it will upscale to the highest resolution that the TV will handle by default and in my case that is 1080p. I decided to try the other settings to see what the highest resolution would be that I could get away with for SD signals without having the color issue. 720p worked fine and so does 1080i. Since my HD box outputs at 1080i native I decided to leave it there so all is well now. It actually upscales the SD signal quite well but of course not to true 1080i.

[Gixxer_Floss]

Thnks very much for the feedback Jotronic. It's good to her you got your SD upscaling issue sorted out.

I would really appreciate if you could confirm if an HDMI input can be output through component, as I have an older LG 42 Plasma with no HDMI that I would like to hook up as a secondary screen for XBOX 360 play while the other half is watching the main TV (or maybe she will watch on the Plasma and I get the HD LCD :cool:).

I have read that protection issues mean it is not possible for receivers to pass an HDMI input out through component and the Sherwood is the only one I have seen saying it can. The guy in the shop said he didn't think so, but wasn't sure.


[Edit]

Do you think you could also advise if you think the RF remote would work in the scenario mentioned above - control the receiver from about 6-7m away through a closed wooden door.

Thanks again.

[Britcanuck]

Hello,

I have had my heart set on a Denon 3808 until a local dealer showed me the R872 and his opinion was it sounded much better than the Denon and costs ~300 less. It did sound good in his demo room, and I was quite impressed. He didn't have a 3808 hooked up to compare it to though. He mentioned one little hicup with it being it seemed to have trouble accepting a 1080P signal, but would output 1080P? (think i have that correct), does this sound familiar to anyone?

I'm curious about the component quality in the two receivers. Are the dacs similar or better in the R872? Most important to me is power (good clean power), how does the quality of it rate against the Denons? The Sherwood website didn't seem to get into specifics on the receiver so thought I'd ask here.

Another option I'm considering is the new Rotel about to be released, but more expensive though.

Speakers are Energy RC30's, RC-LCR, RC-minis rear.

Thanks

[DonoMan]

I have had my heart set on a Denon 3808 until a local dealer showed me the R872 and his opinion was it sounded much better than the Denon

Don't hold your breath. They sound the same.

[yngdiego]

I have the Denon 3808 and it's really great. When budget allows I'll probably try an ICEpower amp and keep the 3808 as the pre/pro.

[Britcanuck]

Thanks guys, so there's nothing special hardware wise in the amp section of the Sherwood vs the Denon then?

yngdiego - I'm thinking along the same lines that you are....eventual upgrade to an iceamp, thinking the wyred 4 sound or d-sonic eventually.

The salesperson was really nice, when I asked him why the price difference if the Sherwood was better, he figured we're paying more for the Denon marketing machine that isn't priced into the sherwood. Guess that's why I'm asking here to find out more about the units.

[AudioBear]

Thnks very much for the feedback Jotronic. It's good to her you got your SD upscaling issue sorted out.

I would really appreciate if you could confirm if an HDMI input can be output through component, as I have an older LG 42 Plasma with no HDMI that I would like to hook up as a secondary screen for XBOX 360 play while the other half is watching the main TV (or maybe she will watch on the Plasma and I get the HD LCD :cool:).

I have read that protection issues mean it is not possible for receivers to pass an HDMI input out through component and the Sherwood is the only one I have seen saying it can. The guy in the shop said he didn't think so, but wasn't sure.


[Edit]

Do you think you could also advise if you think the RF remote would work in the scenario mentioned above - control the receiver from about 6-7m away through a closed wooden door.

Thanks again.

It doesn't look like anybody responded. I will be interested to hear from someone that it does convert HDMI to component because that is against the rules for an HDCP protected signal. I thought manufacturers agree not to do this when they license HDCP decoding.

Anybody? Misprint?

[Classico]

It doesn't look like anybody responded. I will be interested to hear from someone that it does convert HDMI to component because that is against the rules for an HDCP protected signal. I thought manufacturers agree not to do this when they license HDCP decoding.

Anybody? Misprint?

Sherwood's literature says that they CAN do this. The lit is in error. Sometime back, when we were expecting the 972 to show up in the June/July/Aug timeframe Jeff confirmed the error.

If someone CAN accomplish this I would like to know since I have the SAME component/HDMI issue. Alas, if it is done then all the HDCP/DRM etc., would be compromised. Theoretically, one CAN take a 1080P from HDMI to component IF there is NO HDCP as part of the signal (i.e. you recorded it yourself on your own HD camera or whatever) BUT, the Denon appears NOT to allow for that under ANY circumstances. As for the 972--WHO KNOWS?

Classico

[Gixxer_Floss]

Sherwood's literature says that they CAN do this. The lit is in error. Sometime back, when we were expecting the 972 to show up in the June/July/Aug timeframe Jeff confirmed the error.

Classico

I must have missed Jeff saying that and I read every post in this thread. So it follows that if zone 2's best video output is s-video then that also cannot show any HDMI-in signals. The big advantage I thought the Sherwood had over the Denon may not be :(

Please can someone who actually has the 872 try it out. Much appreciated.

[gurkey]

Licensing issues for HDCP do not allow this: HDMI => Analog anything
... as part of the copy protection scheme implemented.
Only the other way around: Analog anything => HDMI

I must have missed Jeff saying that and I read every post in this thread. So it follows that if zone 2's best video output is s-video then that also cannot show any HDMI-in signals. The big advantage I thought the Sherwood had over the Denon may not be :(

Please can someone who actually has the 872 try it out. Much appreciated.

[pankov]

gurkey, are you sure about this?
As far as I remember the restriction was about HD output but if I want degraded SD output it should be allowed over analog. There was something similar in the PC realm where many were afraid that their VGA monitors will not be able to show HD.

I may be wrong but I don't see a reason not to output SD quality - it's not a big risk someone to copy it, right

[krholmberg]

I'm concerned, too. I've considered running a set of component cables down to my garage (directly below the HT) so I could have another a medium sized LCD HDTV down there. Maybe I could have it set up so the SAT receiver outputs both component and HDMI. The HDMI feed would stay in the HT and go to the PJ. The component feed would be routed down the the garage. That would mean no HD-DVD and no Blu-Ray down there, but I suppose that would be good enough.

[chrhon]

I have the opposite problem... I saw this coming with HDCP and so when I remodeled my kitchen in 2007 I ran HDMI as room 2 thinking that we would see HDMI room 2 stuff by now or at the very least splitters would have their issues ironed out. Also running 1 HDMI was so much easier than running 3 coax for component + 2 for audio. Now all I've got is headaches like needing to have the "primary" display (the projector in the theater) powered up and on the HDMI input just to use the tv in the kitchen.

[cybrsage]

Thanks guys, so there's nothing special hardware wise in the amp section of the Sherwood vs the Denon then?


Not that I know about.

The Denon does have Internet upgradable firmware (via an Ethernet port) and can play Internet radio stations. Not sure if the 872 can do that.

[DonoMan]

I have the opposite problem... I saw this coming with HDCP and so when I remodeled my kitchen in 2007 I ran HDMI as room 2 thinking that we would see HDMI room 2 stuff by now or at the very least splitters would have their issues ironed out. Also running 1 HDMI was so much easier than running 3 coax for component + 2 for audio. Now all I've got is headaches like needing to have the "primary" display (the projector in the theater) powered up and on the HDMI input just to use the tv in the kitchen.

You would need an active (powered - this is important) splitter or something like a RadianceXD with multiple HDMI outputs. Some of the splitters have bad reviews, though, for doing things like forcing colorspace conversions, not supporting certain types of audio streams, etc.

[chrhon]

Yeah the one I have (monoprice) is powered and had good reviews - I tried to return it becuase of the needing to have the projector on and the tech told me that all splitters need the primary device powered up. Sorry for getting off topic - I was hoping the sherwood would have HDMI room 2 out but no luck... wonder how long before we see that functionality showing up in receivers? This road to HDMI sure has been rougher than I remember any other new theater standards.

[Robert Whitehead]

According to www.hometheatermag.com, R-972 coming out in Dec at $1800. Brief, but glowing writeup on Trinnov

[samsurd2]

The blurb actually says "It's now scheduled to arrive in December for $1800...". Given SN's track record, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[dustee1]

Robert Whitehead - Thanks for sharing the link - As one who has seen & heard a demo at CES I'd say It'll be worth the wait.
My old HK died two years ago & you don't see me moaning about delays.
Sure I'd like to have an R-972 yesterday, but patience is a virtue :).
All you negative people don't have to wait, but I think I will :p.

[Britcanuck]

Not that I know about.

The Denon does have Internet upgradable firmware (via an Ethernet port) and can play Internet radio stations. Not sure if the 872 can do that.

Thanks, I guess I'm more concerned about the sonic characteristics of the two and it doesn't appear that there's between them then. I was wondering in relative terms what the retailer meant when he said that the 872 sounds much better than the 3808. (Maybe in terms of how it handles dyanamics when listening to movies?)

Tough decisions to make, especially with all of the new receivers coming out.

[DonoMan]

Thanks, I guess I'm more concerned about the sonic characteristics of the two and it doesn't appear that there's between them then. I was wondering in relative terms what the retailer meant when he said that the 872 sounds much better than the 3808. (Maybe in terms of how it handles dyanamics when listening to movies?)

Like the same way the Nordost cables he sells improve the sound, I'd bet.

[facesnorth]

Anything at CEDIA about the 972? They have info on new BD players? But nothing on these soon to be ancient AVR's?

[Robert Whitehead]

See Post 1391 above.

[samsurd2]

For completeness, also see Post 1392.

[Stereojeff]

I just spent 4 days at CEDIA demoing the R-972 with Trinnov finally embedded into the receiver. Nothing up our sleeve, no hidden $13k boxes, just our bluray, the R-972, 7 Triad Bronze LCR's and two of their Bronze subs. I hope one of the attendees chimes in with their response but from what I saw and heard, the listeners were stunned.

We have completed line pre-production of the 972. Mass production usually follows in 60 days. As you all know, this receiver has been subject to protracted creeping delays so our credibility is understandably suspect. I am guardedly optimistic that the few remaining microprocessor issues will be quickly resolved and the R-972 will be available for purchase within 2008.

Jeff

[cybrsage]

Welcome back!

I hope the aliens did not probe you too harshly! I am surprised they released you after your abduction!

:)

[Guinness77]

Any word on the P-972? Will that be released the same time?

Thanks

[Stereojeff]

Guiness77:

As I wrote in my response to your PM, at this time we do not plan to offer the R-972 as a prepro. Were one to use the 972 strictly as a prepro, it will deliver audio performance comparable to our current P-965 with the added benefit of the additional modern features: HDMI 1.3, lossless audio decoding, video scaling to 1080p and the Trinnov Optimizer.

Jeff

[9suffix]

Darn, Jeff! Some of us were counting on the "R-972" pre-pro. It's not your fault, but it's why I bought an amp. Just getting things ready...

Any plans you can speak of where the P-965 will get refreshed with the Trinnov Optimizer and all the rest? Now that I've got the amp I kind of don't want an AVR!

JP

[peeweep69]

Jeff

Curious to know which processor is giving you guys problems, Trinnov or maybe Reon. Any of the home theater mags get to hear SN's demo, I wonder if they'll post about it. I got a player with analog out just so I can hold off for this bad boy. Yes, I am actually still waiting, call me naive :p. It kills me when I read about everybodies experiences with their new AVRs.

[Stereojeff]

The problems are mostly housekeeping. There's a micro controller and submicro controller that translate user commands into executables. Units as complicated as a modern day AVR require a lot of sorting out.

As to the attendees, many of our more prominent journalists heard our demonstrations. Off the top of my head, Mark Fleischmann, Tom Norton, Danny Kumin to name only a few

Jeff.

[FreddyW]

The problems are mostly housekeeping. There's a micro controller and submicro controller that translate user commands into executables. Units as complicated as a modern day AVR require a lot of sorting out.

As to the attendees, many of our more prominent journalists heard our demonstrations. Off the top of my head, Mark Fleischmann, Tom Norton, Danny Kumin to name only a few

Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

How is the unit handling the video processing (which chipset?), and is there an onscreen (i.e.- sent to display) GUI for the settings? Oh, and how many HDMI outputs?

Regards,
Fred

[DonoMan]

Hi Jeff,

How is the unit handling the video processing (which chipset?)

Reon, which is not a buggy chipset in general, so that's not a problem hardware-wise unless they somehow got a bad batch.

[peeweep69]

Unless it's implemented like Onkyo's 875 and 905.

[DonoMan]

Unless it's implemented like Onkyo's 875 and 905.

That's a software problem. I made sure to note that it won't be a problem hardware-wise.

[krholmberg]

Toshiba cerntainly knew how to use the chip in the XA2 so if definitely can be done.

[JBJR]

Guiness77:

As I wrote in my response to your PM, at this time we do not plan to offer the R-972 as a prepro. Were one to use the 972 strictly as a prepro, it will deliver audio performance comparable to our current P-965 with the added benefit of the additional modern features: HDMI 1.3, lossless audio decoding, video scaling to 1080p and the Trinnov Optimizer.

Jeff

Oh no, say it isn't so!! I've been waiting for this to replace my P-965! I am not looking for a reciever to use as a prepro to replace the P-965. Guess I'll have to rethink this and most likely look elsewhere!! Very sad news!!

[Filthy McNasty]

Guess I'll have to rethink this and most likely look elsewhere!!

Same here. I guess I'll go audition the NAD T175

[DonoMan]

Oh no, say it isn't so!! I've been waiting for this to replace my P-965! I am not looking for a reciever to use as a prepro to replace the P-965. Guess I'll have to rethink this and most likely look elsewhere!! Very sad news!!

...Why? Amplifiers don't prevent it from being just as good for your purpose.

[B&W700guy]

Oh no, say it isn't so!! I've been waiting for this to replace my P-965! I am not looking for a reciever to use as a prepro to replace the P-965. Guess I'll have to rethink this and most likely look elsewhere!! Very sad news!!

Did they ever fix the P-965?

[B&W700guy]

...Why? Amplifiers don't prevent it from being just as good for your purpose.
DonoMan,
You should go over to the B&K Ref70 Prepro thread. They are setting up a blind study of Prepro's. You should give them your input on how to conduct the study;)

[krholmberg]

If that truly is a blind study they should throw in a couple mated receivers (e.g. modern equivalent of the R-965 and P-965) to see if they can detect a difference. If they don't want to test them, they probably don't want to know the results ;). If there is a difference (which there probably is), it would be good to have more than hyperbole to back up the claims.

[cybrsage]

Thanks, I guess I'm more concerned about the sonic characteristics of the two and it doesn't appear that there's between them then. I was wondering in relative terms what the retailer meant when he said that the 872 sounds much better than the 3808. (Maybe in terms of how it handles dyanamics when listening to movies?)

Tough decisions to make, especially with all of the new receivers coming out.

Ask if you can take each one home, one at a time, to do some comparisons. Tell him you will buy whichever you like better, so he knows he is getting a sale.

[DonoMan]

Ask if you can take each one home, one at a time, to do some comparisons. Tell him you will buy whichever you like better, so he knows he is getting a sale.

One at a time is completely useless if you want to try to compare SQ.

[aydu]

One at a time is completely useless if you want to try to compare SQ.

Not so! Comparing components in an a/b type situation is preferable and will enable small differences to be more immediately identifiable. Not so small differences (as you're likely to find with receivers) can easily be heard in a one at a time comparison.

I've tested out several brands of receivers with my speakers and room - one at a time. Some sounded clear and powerful, others weak and muffled. Some required you to really crank the volume to get a desired sound level, others achieved it with a more reasonable setting.

Another thing that clearly differs is the effect of a room eq system. Running this will generate vastly different sound qualities that can easily be heard.

Audio memory is short, so identifying exact differences will not be possible in a one at a time comparison. Finding a receiver that has the desired sonic character (preferred by the listener) is doable.

Even in the best a/b shootouts the voting is mixed. Not everyone agrees what sounds best all the time. For receivers, it is not too tough a task telling which one generates the best/preferred sound character in your room with your speakers.

[Britcanuck]

Hi Cybersage, that thought occured to me, but I don't think they'd do that. He'd probably rather I bring my speakers in and hook them up, and I'm not too into that either. Guess that's why I asked here to get a feel for folks thoughts on it.

[Britcanuck]

Not so! Comparing components in an a/b type situation is preferable and will enable small differences to be more immediately identifiable. Not so small differences (as you're likely to find with receivers) can easily be heard in a one at a time comparison.

I've tested out several brands of receivers with my speakers and room - one at a time. Some sounded clear and powerful, others weak and muffled. Some required you to really crank the volume to get a desired sound level, others achieved it with a more reasonable setting.

Another thing that clearly differs is the effect of a room eq system. Running this will generate vastly different sound qualities that can easily be heard.

Audio memory is short, so identifying exact differences will not be possible in a one at a time comparison. Finding a receiver that has the desired sonic character (preferred by the listener) is doable.

Even in the best a/b shootouts the voting is mixed. Not everyone agrees what sounds best all the time. For receivers, it is not too tough a task telling which one generates the best/preferred sound character in your room with your speakers.

Agreed. I listened to some B&W 683's and 703's driven by a NAD t-785 and didn't like what I heard at all. I thought they sounded muddy in the mids and a bit harsh on the highs. The 703's improved slightly, but to me both pairs were way overpriced for their sound. I crossed them off my potential list right there compared to other speakers I was listeneing to. I went back another time though, and listened to the 683's on a rotel rsx-1058 and the speakers sounded a lot better.

It was really bugging me that there could be that much difference, so back I went again to ask about how they were hooked up. the nad was connected to a nad dvd player, and the rotel was hooked to a panny bd-30. The retailer said both were hooked up via hdmi, so unless playback settings were different (which i didn't verify) there was a difference in sound characteristics between the two receivers. He told me that the Rotel is a lot more analytical than the NAD. My thinking was, what if I get one of these two home (or any receiver for that matter) and a similar effect happens?

So that's where I'm at today, part of me really wants to believe the camp that says "all amps level matched" sound the same, but from what I'm hearing, there are differences. Oh well, I'll just play the waiting game some more and wait to hear more about all of the new electronics coming out.

Thanks for your responses so far.

[ghislain]

... I am guardedly optimistic that the few remaining microprocessor issues will be quickly resolved and the R-972 will be available for purchase within 2008.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Looking forward to see the R972 appearing :)
Will this be a US release only?
My R965 is still going strong but really want to upgrade...

[cybrsage]

Any new info?

I am guardedly optimistic the R-972 will make it before the end of the year.

[Stereojeff]

R-972 will be released worldwide. I too am guardedly optimistic that it will be available in calendar 2008.

Jeff

[Stereojeff]

I posted earlier that I hoped some of those who attended our CEDIA demo would post their responses here. I haven't seen that, yet, but did receive a love-letter this AM. Here it is:

To Jeff Hipps:

I wanted to thank you again for your thorough demonstration of Newcastle's new R972 Receiver and its Trinnov Surround Optimization. Besides my work as a market/technology analyst, I've also been a home-theater nut since "big-laser-disk" days.. and then-some. Surround-sound has often seemed (IMHO) more "novelty-than-necessity", with a precious few titles taking full advantage of the possibilities. Even so, anyone would have to agree that in the home, movies are just not the same without it.... well, that's what I would now say about Trinnov Surround. I think that the difference I heard in the R972 is to surround... what surround was to 2ch movies... and even more.

After your demonstration concluded, I was frozen in place just contemplating the implications: If surround-sound is no-longer merely a collection of drivers in the room, but rather a "seamless 360 sound-stage"... then the number of speakers is practically irrelevant. I would foresee movies with sound engineered to create (from a small handful of speakers) 10.1, 12.1 surround, all virtually/seamlessly implemented by future generations of Trinnov. I really cannot imagine how surround will ever be same once this technology takes hold... I think I know how special this is, and I feel like I have this cool inside-secret. Fortunately I'm terrible at keeping such secrets ;)

Thanks again,

Sean M. Kelly
Founder, Blueblade Audio Labs

[noah katz]

Jeff,

Thanks for the report, I'm officially excited again :)

Do you know if Trinnov has any plans for a feature like Audyssey Dynamic EQ, or Sherwood for that matter?

Thanks

[videohot]

Jeff

Where do I find a full listing of your dealers?

Larry

[Stereojeff]

Noah:

There are some issues currently that preclude Trinnov's use with dynamic EQ. Our choices were virtually perfect imaging or dynamic EQ. We chose the former.

Jeff

[yngdiego]

I'm disappointed DynamicEQ is not available. I'm looking forward to enabling this feature on my Denon 3808 with the feature pack coming out in a couple of weeks. Plus I'll be shocked if the 972 ever sees the light of day. Pretty irresponsible to announce a product almost 2 years before consumers can buy it.

[noah katz]

Jeff,

I can see how DynamicEQ as implemented by Audyssey could mess with the imaging, but how about something simpler along the lines of basic loudness correction, i.e. gain-dependent freq response tailoring.

Also, I learned recently that surround channel gain relative to the fronts needs to increase as volume is lowered to maintain the same perceived front/rear balance, so this would be nice to have too.

I guess these could both be roughly, but probably adequately, implemented by saving presets with different target curve and surround level settings; how many presets will the R972 have?

Thanks

[tonov12]

No pre/pro is a big bummer! I wanted to replace my 965 with a pre that can handle all the new frills! I'd like to have HDMI switching and something that can decode the lossless formats. The 972 in a pre format seemed like it would have fit the bill perfectly! What a downer.

[peeweep69]

Noah:

There are some issues currently that preclude Trinnov's use with dynamic EQ. Our choices were virtually perfect imaging or dynamic EQ. We chose the former.

Jeff

Hmmm . . . I was "gaurdedly optimistic" about maybe, possibly a firmware fix like Denon's 3808 until I googled preclude. That seems like a very strong term. Are you sure you want say "preclude" :D?

[facesnorth]

Hmmm . . . I was "gaurdedly optimistic" about maybe, possibly a firmware fix like Denon's 3808 until I googled preclude. That seems like a very strong term. Are you sure you want say "preclude" :D?

lol. I hadn't realized how strong a word it was until I just googled it myself.

I must add my cries to the crowd upset about no pre-pro. I remember mention being made that there would be one. I had solid intentions to replace my 905 with a P-972 to go with my new 7 channel Sherbourn amp.

There's nothing else out there that really drives me to upgrade. I don't want another AVR simply because I feel I am wasting money that could be better spent towards improving strictly what the pre/pro would do. They usually aren't any cheaper oddly.

[riverwolf]

For the folks missing DynamicEQ...have you actually heard it in action? I've been putting an Onkyo refurb 506 through its paces before turning it over to my parents. After only a couple of hours of DynamicEQ, I had to disengage it. I thought I was a self proclaimed bass-head, but DEQ on just wore me out. It's a neat effect at first, but it creates a constant barrage of exaggerated bottom end. To Audyssey's credit, it's not a one note "loudness" or "bass=10" type boost, plenty of pitch definition, it's just too much of a good thing. Maybe it's just an anomaly with how Audyssey measured my room and YMMV.

-Brent

[gonk]

I've checked this thread off and on for many months now, and recalled the talk about no Sherwood pre/pro - this announcement (http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000049.html) might interest folks...

[jdskycaster]

I've checked this thread off and on for many months now, and recalled the talk about no Sherwood pre/pro - this announcement (http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000049.html) might interest folks...

Thanks for posting the info: Sign me up for the new Outlaw!

[krholmberg]

Very interesting indeed... and not that surprising given the similarities of Outlaw and Sherwood/Newcastle products in the past.

[krholmberg]

duplicate post

[gonk]

Very interesting indeed... and not that surprising given the similarities of Outlaw and Sherwood/Newcastle products in the past.
This is actually just the second collaboration between Outlaw and Sherwood (the Model 990 being the first, although it sounds like there may be less difference this time around than with that case - the 990 had different firmware, a different user interface, DVI switching, and balanced outputs).

[9suffix]

I've checked this thread off and on for many months now, and recalled the talk about no Sherwood pre/pro - this announcement (http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000049.html) might interest folks...

This is fantastic, Gonk! You made my day (that, and I just picked up my wife's new Mini Cooper S!).

JP

[facke02]

This is fantastic, Gonk! You made my day (that, and I just picked up my wife's new Mini Cooper S!).

JP

Been waiting for this, count me in...

[gonk]

This is fantastic, Gonk! You made my day (that, and I just picked up my wife's new Mini Cooper S!).
Glad to help, 9suffix... ;)

[tightrope]

I'm disappointed DynamicEQ is not available. I'm looking forward to enabling this feature on my Denon 3808 with the feature pack coming out in a couple of weeks. Plus I'll be shocked if the 972 ever sees the light of day. Pretty irresponsible to announce a product almost 2 years before consumers can buy it.

Why are you disappointed? You sound quite happy with your Denon. I, for one, don't mind to wait a few more months for the superior technology of the 972.

[yngdiego]

Why are you disappointed? You sound quite happy with your Denon. I, for one, don't mind to wait a few more months for the superior technology of the 972.

No one knows if the 972 will be superior since it's 98% vaporware at this point. It may be, or it may not. It's a moot point for me, since its highly unlikely I would support any company that's delayed a product so much. Whenever I get the Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume features enabled on my 3808, I'll decide whether I would even consider another receiver without them.

To compound the problem SN is not widely available in retail outlets, so auditioning them is quite a PITA and further deters many people from trying them. I'm all for new technology and Trinnov sounds interesting, but a single feature won't make me overlook serious misgivings I have about the company as a whole.

Now if/when the 972 comes out and the general consensus is that it totally kicks ass, then I may reconsider. But if the reviews are lukewarm, I'll pass.

[facesnorth]

I've checked this thread off and on for many months now, and recalled the talk about no Sherwood pre/pro - this announcement (http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000049.html) might interest folks...

Might interest? This is awesome! So the P-972 will be available after all, it will just have Outlaw stamped on the front. If the initial reviews show that it lives up to the hype, then this will be the next pre-pro/AVR that I purchase. $1399 is do-able, although hopefully I can get an even better break...

[facesnorth]

No one knows if the 972 will be superior since it's 98% vaporware at this point. It may be, or it may not. It's a moot point for me, since its highly unlikely I would support any company that's delayed a product so much.

While the delays have been annoying, I can better respect a company that works the bugs out before releasing, then a company that drops an essentially beta product on the public and then doesn't support it.


Now if/when the 972 comes out and the general consensus is that it totally kicks ass, then I may reconsider. But if the reviews are lukewarm, I'll pass.

I agree, I am definitely going to wait on the reviews.

One thing I hope the 997 improves on is the HDMI inputs. I need 6, anything less will be disappointing at this point in time.

[guiness4me]

While the delays have been annoying, I can better respect a company that works the bugs out before releasing, then a company that drops an essentially beta product on the public and then doesn't support it.




I agree, I am definitely going to wait on the reviews.

One thing I hope the 997 improves on is the HDMI inputs. I need 6, anything less will be disappointing at this point in time.

As far as HDMI inputs go the 997 will have 4 in and 1 out::)

[Robert Whitehead]

Match up the Out

[9suffix]

Looks like someone has gotten the ball rolling on a new Outlaw 997 Pre/Pro thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068084

JP

[gonk]

One thing I hope the 997 improves on is the HDMI inputs. I need 6, anything less will be disappointing at this point in time.
It probably won't add more, as that's a not-insignificant hardware change. What I'm curious about is whether the trick I've been using with my Model 990's DVI switching for a while now - assign one DVI (or HDMI) input to multiple sources (Video1, Video5, etc.) and use an outboard HDMI switch to hook multiple devices to that input. This approach works best if you can assign one physical input (HDMI4, for example) to more than one source, as it allows you to have separate source labels (good for the family using the system) and other settings. I won't know if that option will work or not until I see a manual, I suspect.

[tempus06]

Outlaw Audio maybe amazing but for now it's only available in northern America... :(

I hope it will change soon.