Sherwood Newcastle R-872 & R-972 HDMI 1.3 receivers

[Stereojeff]

R-972 demo at Audioholics Show

PSA: I will be demonstrating the R-972 with the Trinnov Optimizer embedded in the receiver at the Audioholics show in Orlando 10/23 and 10/24.

Jeff

[z117]

i have found that most video processors from Faroudja have this option
"PASSTHROUGH: When PASSTHROUGH is selected, sources connected to the DVI
input will be sent to the DVI output unchanged by the processor."

in my case. i have the sherwood newcastle r-872 with Faroudja FLI2301.
so how can i enable the passthrough option ? this will help me to resolve the problem of refresh rates (60Hz on 1080p)

thanks

[cybrsage]

I've always considered Sherwood to be low end, I guess this is their chance to prove themselves.

From what I have read, Sherwood is the low end and Sherwood Newcastle is the higher end.

Kinda like Pioneer and Pioneer Elite.

[Steve.]

From what I have read, Sherwood is the low end and Sherwood Newcastle is the higher end.

Kinda like Pioneer and Pioneer Elite.

But just not as good...

[skriefal]

Not really. I've owned both, and consider Sherwood Newcastle to be at least comparable to (and sometimes better than) Pioneer Elite. Apparently you've fallen into the too-common trap of allowing a single bad experience with a brand to color your perceptions of all products from that brand.

[Gixxer_Floss]

sorry, 52" BRAVIA XBR series LCD Flat Panel HDTV KDL-52XBR5 is what i have. and it was working fine on 1080p60 (60Hz) input signal before the r-872 . fromt the datasheet of Faroudja's 2301 DCDi i found this:

"The FLI2300 Digital Video Format Converter produces the highest quality upconverted
video output from a variety of interlaced video inputs including 525i/50 (NTSC),
625i/50 (PAL or SECAM), 480p/60, 720p/60, 1080i/60 (ATSC) and RGB graphics up
to SXGA"

so no support of 1080p60.

please help, thanks again


Sorry for the bad news, but if you look carefully in the manual it specifically says that the R-872 cannot handle 1080P input. One of the reasons why I decided against it and went for the Denon 1909 instead.

[z117]

Sorry for the bad news, but if you look carefully in the manual it specifically says that the R-872 cannot handle 1080P input. One of the reasons why I decided against it and went for the Denon 1909 instead.

i understand now how Faroudja's FLI2301 is configured in my R-872 .
but i need to know how to passthrough the video signal to the HDMI output. i mean disabling the "video scaling" feature in my case.
isn't there a way to program it to do so?

i found that Denon 1909 is using another chip "the Faroudja's FLI2310"
and they feature "1080p video pass through" under the specification.

but its definetly not the only difference. in the datasheet of FLI2310 http://www.gnss.com/products/FLI2310%20Product%20Brief.pdf
input support is said to be upto 1080i. like of FLI2301 http://www.genesis-microchip.com/products/FLI2301_Product_Brief_C0702-PBR-02.pdf

i cannot tell if denon arranged the passthrough function in inside or outside the faroudja's chip.

[z117]

i have tried to contact Faroudja on techsupport@faroudja.com
Unfortunately, i have recieved following message from the server:

#####################################

Your message To: Collin Chan Subject: Regarding Faroudja DCDi Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 02:00:49 -0700 did not reach the following recipient(s): Collin Chan on Fri, 3 Oct 2008 02:00:49 -0700 The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this messagewas sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipientdirectly to find out the correct address. <SJEX2003CL2.gmi.domain #5.1.1>

######################################

looks like they have added FLI2301 to their discontinued product list. while Faroudja is not giving support!
i will e-mail genesis-microchip and wait for a replay.

[cybrsage]

Do we now have an expected release date of March, 2010?

[2MuchHT]

i have tried to contact Faroudja on techsupport@faroudja.com
Unfortunately, i have recieved following message from the server:

#####################################

Your message To: Collin Chan Subject: Regarding Faroudja DCDi Sent: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 02:00:49 -0700 did not reach the following recipient(s): Collin Chan on Fri, 3 Oct 2008 02:00:49 -0700 The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this messagewas sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipientdirectly to find out the correct address. <SJEX2003CL2.gmi.domain #5.1.1>

######################################

looks like they have added FLI2301 to their discontinued product list. while Faroudja is not giving support!
i will e-mail genesis-microchip and wait for a replay.
Gensis was sold to ST, but they are probably still providing support under Genesis. However, I'll bet that they won't be able to help too much, as the answer comes not from something having to do with the chip, but rather from the design used to implement it in a product such as an AV Receiver.

[z117]

The R-972 does support 1080p bypass.

Jeff

Jeff , there must be a way to enable pass-thru in my R-872. i am very annoyed as my problem is not yet resolved.

it should be the user who to decide whether to use a feature like video scaling or simply disabling it( act as a switch )

i don't want to loose the quality of my 1080p60Hz signal because my brand new AVR does not support it.

i need your support

thanks.

[samsurd2]

Do we now have an expected release date of March, 2010?Only if you're an optimist. :D

[Gixxer_Floss]

Jeff , there must be a way to enable pass-thru in my R-872. i am very annoyed as my problem is not yet resolved.



Based on my reading of the manual and trying the R-872 in a shop, there is no way to pass a 1080p signal. This was also stated to be the case in a recent Hong Kong AV magazine review of the R-872.

[z117]

Based on my reading of the manual and trying the R-872 in a shop, there is no way to pass a 1080p signal. This was also stated to be the case in a recent Hong Kong AV magazine review of the R-872.

this is so "UN complete" design for sherwood. the pass through function is what a 100$ AVR can do!

[Nedtsc]

Anyone going to Audioholics SOTU event? Audyssey and Sherwood would be in separate room to demo their product. This would be the best place hear these products.

[Clint DeBoer]

Anyone going to Audioholics SOTU event? Audyssey and Sherwood would be in separate room to demo their product. This would be the best place hear these products.I'm going. :)

The rooms are almost identical to boot, though I cant speak for any treatments, if any, that will be placed within. And of course the speakers will be a major factor. We hear Audyssey is using SVS speakers and Sherwood is using Hsu speakers. Should be cool to hear.

[krholmberg]

So then it seems they will be using direct competitors for speakers (and thus reasonably similar quality). Of course it's not the same as having everything identical and just swapping out the receivers, but at least one is not using uber high end speakers while the other is not. Short of a formal comparison, I think this is about as good a comparison as we're going to get. Hopefully several people who post here will attend and get a good listen to both setups. Hopefully that will help gain a concensus.

For those going, I have two specific requests:

1. Please see how large the sweet spot is for both systems. I would expect it to be larger for Audyssey, but all I need is for Trinnov's is to cover a 3 person wide couch when speakers are located in "ideal" places. Contrarily, if the speakers are in non-ideal locations, then I would expect Trinnov to shine.

2. How good is the bass management? I've read on numerous occasions that Audyssey sets the bass as flat. Although "ideal", most (including me) prefer a house curve since our ability to hear diminishes as the frequency diminishes. Sherwood is supposed to allow you to set different curves including one that makes the lower frequencies play a few dB's "hot". Please try the different curves to see if you notice an audible difference. This could be a real selling point. I love the fact that the 972 has user adjustible low and high pass filters for the sub. This in conjunction with user adjustible curves should be a way for the 972 to shine, but as they say the proof is in the pudding.

I can't wait to hear back from those who attend!

[facke02]

Anyone going to Audioholics SOTU event? Audyssey and Sherwood would be in separate room to demo their product. This would be the best place hear these products.

Is this event open to the general public? I live in Orlando and got to see Jeff and the R-972 at EHX in March.

[Gene DellaSala]

Is this event open to the general public? I live in Orlando and got to see Jeff and the R-972 at EHX in March.

Yes it is FREE to the public to attend our demos and educational seminars.

But if you want to participate in our semi formal dining event / costume party, you must register. Until the end of this week, we are waiving the $75 registration fee for all Sherwood dealers/installers and enthusiasts which includes 2 days of breafast and our dining event ($250 value in food per person)!

Here is the announcement:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/sherwood

[Whistler36]

I contacted Outlaw and found out that the Model 997 will not have a HD AM/FM tuner. I assume, then, that the 972 will not have an HD tuner either (and will not support Sirius). I had hoped not to have to buy a separate tuner to get HD.

[facke02]

Yes it is FREE to the public to attend our demos and educational seminars.

But if you want to participate in our semi formal dining event / costume party, you must register. Until the end of this week, we are waiving the $75 registration fee for all Sherwood dealers/installers and enthusiasts which includes 2 days of breafast and our dining event ($250 value in food per person)!

Here is the announcement:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/sherwood

Great... I'll register today.

Thanks

[Mark S.]

Hi Everyone,

I've seen the question asked before in this thread but I couldn't find any answers to it....

I am looking at the Sherwood Newcastle R-872 and I will be using a projector for my display (InFocus IN83). I was told that the scalers in good projectors are better than those in receivers, and that I should be using the scaler in the projector. How do you know that the projector is doing the scaling and not the receiver? I read about these "passthroughs" but so far nobody has commented on whether you can do this with the R-872 or not. It would be a deal breaker I think.

Thanks in advance.

[nakenergy]

What are the specs on this model? The Inkel site says this is 27 kg - is it that heavy? What about the amps and the dacs?

Trying to decide if I wait or go for the ICE power Pioneers.

[z117]

Hi Everyone,

I've seen the question asked before in this thread but I couldn't find any answers to it....

I am looking at the Sherwood Newcastle R-872 and I will be using a projector for my display (InFocus IN83). I was told that the scalers in good projectors are better than those in receivers, and that I should be using the scaler in the projector. How do you know that the projector is doing the scaling and not the receiver? I read about these "passthroughs" but so far nobody has commented on whether you can do this with the R-872 or not. It would be a deal breaker I think.

Thanks in advance.


the r-872 does not support the PASSTHROUGH

[DonoMan]

I will be using a projector for my display (InFocus IN83). I was told that the scalers in good projectors are better than those in receivers

You may have been told that about good projectors, but you have an IN83. It has a Pixelworks processor. Enough said.

[Mark S.]

You may have been told that about good projectors, but you have an IN83. It has a Pixelworks processor. Enough said.

The IN83 isn't a good projector? Every single thing I've read so far suggests its one of the best in the under $10,000 category. Any particular reasons why you don't think its any good? I don't have it yet, it is one we are interested in. I am certainly not an expert so all I have to go on is what I've read, and I keep reading reading that the IN83 has an exceptional scaler in it for its price range...here is something HDTV expert said:

"The Realta discs revealed that the IN83’s Pixelworks 10-bit DNX video processor was pulling its weight. It sailed through the standard-definition tests, picking up extremely quickly on 3:2 and other oddball frame/field sequences while leaving minimal interlaced scan line artifacts on the screen. The high-definition tests showed that full-frame 1080i processing was being performed, with no twitter in the video resolution and film resolution loss tests — just smooth 1080p."

I've read similar comments in other reviews. I'm not at all expecting it to be as good as a $20,000 projector or a dedicated video processor, simply better than a $1400 receiver (R-872).

If what z117 is true and the R-872 won't support pass through, that is likely a deal breaker for this particular receiver - thanks for the input guys, everything helps (good and bad comments) as we are still trying to decide exactly what we want. The 972 supports pass through though, right? Also, what is meant by the fact that the 872 cannot handle a 1080P input? I am very curious about this because I watched a blu-ray movie and it was hooked up to the 872.


Thanks again

[Trendmonger]

Jeff,

Can Trinnov as implemented in the Sherwood Newcastle R-972
Remap a Home Theater 7.1 Front Height configuration
for DTS-HD and Dolby True soundtracks
that are mixed for the 7.1 Standard configuration?

7.1 Front Height Configurtion
http://www.dts.com/~/media/0BD0C95682144F1E8DDD72255DAED31B.ashx

7.1 Standard Configuration
http://www.dts.com/~/media/CFD1137CD6174A3F959CF16C5DB3F924.ashx

[Mark S.]

"The FLI2300 Digital Video Format Converter produces the highest quality upconverted
video output from a variety of interlaced video inputs including 525i/50 (NTSC),
625i/50 (PAL or SECAM), 480p/60, 720p/60, 1080i/60 (ATSC) and RGB graphics up
to SXGA"

so no support of 1080p60.



The way I read this, is that it takes any signal EXCEPT 1080P, and scales it up to 1080P.

And this is what their website says:

"the R-872 uses a Genesis Faroudja processor IC and can deinterlace and scale any of its video inputs, analog or digital, to 720p, 1080i or even 1080p and output them over HDMI."

Am I missing something here?

I REALLY want this receiver so I hope I am right. I can't believe they would make a receiver that wouldn't accept a 1080P signal, or one that when given a 1080P signal, downgrades it. Although you can't bypass the scaler, what happens when it gets a 1080P signal then? It can't scale 1080P to anything better so wouldn't it just pass through?

Thanks.

[z117]

hi mark , i have returned the sherwood r-872 back to the supplier.i believe that this is a huge bug in the design. Moreover, i didn't recieve any answer from their customer support neither from Genesis regarding my problem. the seller suggested me to go for marantz . they have better AVR's and most importantly, the passthrough function which is well taken care of.

[Mark S.]

hi mark , i have returned the sherwood r-872 back to the supplier.i believe that this is a huge bug in the design. Moreover, i didn't recieve any answer from their customer support neither from Genesis regarding my problem. the seller suggested me to go for marantz . they have better AVR's and most importantly, the passthrough function which is well taken care of.

I understand it doesn't have passthrough, but what I haven't been able to fully understand is: what does it do with a 1080P signal? Does it actually downgrade it? I find that hard to believe. My thinking was that it passes through a 1080P signal untouched because it can't make it any better. Were your experiences different?

The thing is that I don't mind that it does the scaling as long as it's decent scaling, I just got hung up on the possibility that it can't accept a 1080P signal and the more I think about it I can't see how it wouldn't be able to take one.

It's too bad the Sherwood 972 isn't out right now. Marantz also seemed to be our second choice, but unfortunately Marantz AVR's will only scale to 480P. On the other hand, the projector we're looking at has a scaler in it so maybe we will just get that to do the work.

Anyways thanks for your input, I hope you find an AVR you are happy with :), I'm beginning to get very frustrated myself. Nobody seems to be able to make a receiver with the audio quality capabilities of the Sherwood (apparently) for even close to the price, but on the video side of things it seems like it might be handicapped. I really like Anthem stuff, but I can't afford it.

[DonoMan]

Passthrough does not process the signal at all. It passes it along unmodified in case you have a processor that does not suck as much as the Faroudja solution.

[Mark S.]

Passthrough does not process the signal at all. It passes it along unmodified in case you have a processor that does not suck as much as the Faroudja solution.

Ok I understand that much, but what happens when the 872, even with a crappy scaler, receives a 1080P/60 signal? (I think this is what comes off a blu-ray) If it can't scale or process it because it is already the best possible signal, what does the 872 do with it?

Thanks.

[DonoMan]

It processes it, which is a problem if you have a better video processor, either standalone or integrated into your display, because the Faroudja in the 872 will molest it, and you would have to get an HDMI splitter to run audio into the 872 and then run video around it.

Let's face it - Faroudja is long in the tooth, and full of issues.

[stikle]

I certainly hope this isn't the case...I got my 872 through a supplier buddy of mine at cost. I can't return it.

I don't have a 1080P source yet, but a Bluray player is not too far in the future.

I just can't see them not allowing a full 1080P signal to pass through. It makes absolutely zero sense to downscale the best signal.

Time will tell I suppose.

[Mark S.]

It processes it, which is a problem if you have a better video processor, either standalone or integrated into your display, because the Faroudja in the 872 will molest it, and you would have to get an HDMI splitter to run audio into the 872 and then run video around it.

Let's face it - Faroudja is long in the tooth, and full of issues.

So what is it attempting to do to the 1080P signal if it is already at the highest possible resolution? By processing the 1080P signal, what is the Faroudja processor trying to do? I agree with stikle in that its hard to believe they would make a product that downgrades a 1080P signal when it is given one, although I don't know enough about the product to know if this actually happens or not. I have heard that the processor in the 872 is discontinued already.

I'm still confused, but thanks for the replies - I'm slowly learning. I might just go with something like a marantz 7002 or Denon 3808 and just pass the video through to the Projector to take care of the scaling.

[DonoMan]

It does other processing like noise reduction and can do CUE reduction and stuff like that. Many receivers have some of these options set always on, not configurable.

[Trendmonger]

If I am missing something allready discussed or confirmed please excuse my ignorance.

- Hoping this AVR can pass 1080P over HDMI with the R972 unit powered off.

This is important for people like me who want to watch Cable or Satellite Broadcast without using the AVR.

Broadcast receivers typically only have 1 HDMI output.
Personally I do not want to power on and use my AVR each and every time I watch cable TV and using the analog for the AVR hookup would be the only choice.

- Is the 24 Bit DAC for all channels?

For people that have a DVD-A or SACD player that does not have a 24 Bit DAC for all channels this would be welcomed. Just look at Denon where if you want DAC for all channels you have to minimally start at the 4308. As far as DAC the Denon 3808 only has DAC for stereo. I am sorry Denon but regardless of Audessy upgrades that 3808 just lacks it in teh Audio Fidelity for All Channels.

- Trinnov Remapping

This is what seems to separate this AVR from all the other players.
??? stil unanswered can it go as far as Remapping a 7.1 Front Height Configuration for 7.1 Lossless Audio Mixed for teh 7.1 Standard.

[DonoMan]

Why would you have video passing through but not using audio?

[gonk]

Hoping this AVR can pass 1080P over HDMI with the R972 unit powered off.

This is important for people like me who want to watch Cable or Satellite Broadcast without using the AVR.

Broadcast receivers typically only have 1 HDMI output.
Personally I do not want to power on and use my AVR each and every time I watch cable TV and using the analog for the AVR hookup would be the only choice.
I don't see how this could even be possible: there are four inputs, and thus no way for it to know which one to "pass through" without being on and having the input selected.

I have recommended for many years now that folks who want to retain the ability to watch TV in a home theater without turning the home theater system on be ready to accept some hassles to achieve that. Your modern home theater receiver is a hub and focal point for everything - as such, bypassing it for anything becomes tricky unless you bypass it exclusively (such as a camcorder hooked to the front inputs of a TV or a TV's onboard tuner). If you want to watch cable or satellite TV without a surround receiver being on, I would expect you to need to run separate cables to the TV. Be warned, though, that the cable boxes I've used disable component output when HDMI is connected to something - the component would potentially work when the receiver is off, as the HDMI output wouldn't see an active device downstream, but I've never tried it to know for certain.

[Mark S.]

It does other processing like noise reduction and can do CUE reduction and stuff like that. Many receivers have some of these options set always on, not configurable.

Thank you - this is the information I was looking for exactly.

As much as I want a Sherwood product, unless the 972 comes out sometime soon, it looks like it will be Denon or Marantz for me so I can pass the video straight through.

Thanks again.

[Trendmonger]

I don't see how this could even be possible: there are four inputs, and thus no way for it to know which one to "pass through" without being on and having the input selected.....



Reportedly the Panasonic SA-BX500 can pass 1080P Audio and Video without the unit being on. This could be that the Panasonic SA-BX500 is a Class D AMP where it may have some standby mode that unit is always on to some degree using some low level power consumption but I just can't see consuming all that power of an AVR when you just want to watch Jeapordy.

Basically I just want to use an AVR or Pre/Pro for Full Length films and HD Audio but do I really need to consume all that AVR power when my daughter wants to watch Dora The Explorer.

Does Swiper the Fox really need to consume more power. I say no.
If eh current AVR cannot do it I am hoping the Outlaw Pre/Prowill have two HDMI outputs so this would resolve allthat uinessary power consumption when a broadcast only need the TV speakers.

Presently in my 2 channel environment I use a analog amp for powered home theater 2 channel and run direct HDMI for my cable box for as high as 1080i stream but with an AVR that has Reon f and when I want to run the AVR I want to upconvert t o1080P.

[Stereojeff]

Trendmonger:

The 7.1 situation is interesting. Trinnov would correctly find all 7 speakers including the height speakers. As 7.1 is not yet an official format there are no international placement standards to guide the Optimizer nor do we currently have code that could re-map them. Were this my system, I'd let Trinnov find all the speakers and then re-map in 2D. Height would not change, but the acoustic image for the main 5.1 system would be moved laterally (horizontally) to support ITU Surround or SMPTE Cinema. Response for the height speakers would be flattened to match the other channels, but their acoustic image would stay put.

Jeff

[Stereojeff]

Regarding 1080p and our new receivers. Both these projects (R-872 and R-972) were started before the world became 1080p mad. 1080i was the preferred source. For the R-872 we thought there were performance advantages to be gained by deinterlacing 1080i with our built-in Faroudja DCDi chip. I still do.

For the R-972, the HQV Reon solution automatically supports 1080p bypass so it is not an issue.

Jeff

P. S. There is a school of thought that all video should bypass the AVR and go directly to the display device. This is an option with the R-872.

[Trendmonger]

Regarding 1080p and our new receivers. Both these projects (R-872 and R-972) were started before the world became 1080p mad. 1080i was the preferred source. For the R-872 we thought there were performance advantages to be gained by deinterlacing 1080i with our built-in Faroudja DCDi chip. I still do.

For the R-972, the HQV Reon solution automatically supports 1080p bypass so it is not an issue.

Jeff

P. S. There is a school of thought that all video should bypass the AVR and go directly to the display device. This is an option with the R-872.

Has this this school of thought have consideration for lossless 7.1 Audio which I believe must transmit to the AVR via HDMI. Today this will be the typical Blue Ray Hookup but some content providers are starting with 1080P transmissions.

[gonk]

Reportedly the Panasonic SA-BX500 can pass 1080P Audio and Video without the unit being on. This could be that the Panasonic SA-BX500 is a Class D AMP where it may have some standby mode that unit is always on to some degree using some low level power consumption but I just can't see consuming all that power of an AVR when you just want to watch Jeapordy.
If the BX500 allows HDMI signals to pass through even when in standby, then it must be related solely to a single HDMI input with a sort of "sleep mode" switching control - after all, you can't have all four HDMI inputs trying to push through to the HDMI output simultaneously. It is in implementing that "traffic cop" sort of signal switching control that I find problematic. It might be possible to designate "HDMI1" as the source that bypasses to the output when in standby, but how easy that is to do may depend heavily on the hardware architecture - if there's not a simple physical pathway between the two (which becomes rather unlikely when you incorporate video processing into the platform), a bypass like this could quickly become a huge headache for a feature that may see very little actual use.
Basically I just want to use an AVR or Pre/Pro for Full Length films and HD Audio but do I really need to consume all that AVR power when my daughter wants to watch Dora The Explorer.

Does Swiper the Fox really need to consume more power. I say no.
If eh current AVR cannot do it I am hoping the Outlaw Pre/Prowill have two HDMI outputs so this would resolve allthat uinessary power consumption when a broadcast only need the TV speakers.
Swiper (and more often Pablo and the rest of the Backyardigans) runs through the full home theater in my den, as does the news and even the weather channel from time to time. The power consumption for my system at low volume is not that large (just a few amps according to my Belkin power conditioner, and a significant chunk of that is going to the TV). The control challenges (particularly for the family) that arise when trying to let the system flip-flop between system speakers and TV speakers are pretty messy, and I just can't justify the hassle. I couldn't justify it to myself even back when video switching wasn't so integrated into AVR's, and it was easier to pull off then.

The Outlaw Model 997 has been reported to have a single HDMI output, but even if it had two I don't see how it would help with the issue at hand. You still need the processor on to have video switching active. You could potentially play some games with amp triggers and use the processor as an HDMI switch, I suppose, but the feasibility of that will depend on how the trigger controls work...
Presently in my 2 channel environment I use a analog amp for powered home theater 2 channel and run direct HDMI for my cable box for as high as 1080i stream but with an AVR that has Reon f and when I want to run the AVR I want to upconvert t o1080P.
How about this: run HDMI to your TV and run coaxial, optical, or analog to your receiver. You'll need two HDMI inputs on the TV (since there will need to be one connected to the AVR), but there's no audio available from cable that needs HDMI. You'll lose the benefit of Reon scaling, so you'll be relying on the cable box or TV scaler still - and the cable box scalers I've seen are pretty underwhelming - but Swiper won't care, right?

Honestly, I prefer the option of component video and analog audio connections from the cable box to the TV and a separate HDMI run to the receiver over this scheme, but either is possible.
P. S. There is a school of thought that all video should bypass the AVR and go directly to the display device. This is an option with the R-872.
Bypassing the AVR with video has long been popular in some circles, but one of the curious side-effects of HDMI's audio/video merger is that it actually makes this approach more difficult, particularly for those formats which seek to make use of HDMI's audio bandwidth (DVD-Audio, SACD, Blu-ray, and HD-DVD being the four that come to mind). Feeding 1080p from a Blu-ray disc straight to a display while also feeding TrueHD, multichannel PCM, or DTS-HD to a receiver in the digital domain is tricky at best (if not downright impossible) when the video bypasses the receiver. You would basically need two HDMI outputs on the player, and that's not something I've seen on sources so far.

[Trendmonger]

Trendmonger:

The 7.1 situation is interesting. Trinnov would correctly find all 7 speakers including the height speakers. As 7.1 is not yet an official format there are no international placement standards to guide the Optimizer nor do we currently have code that could re-map them. Were this my system, I'd let Trinnov find all the speakers and then re-map in 2D. Height would not change, but the acoustic image for the main 5.1 system would be moved laterally (horizontally) to support ITU Surround or SMPTE Cinema. Response for the height speakers would be flattened to match the other channels, but their acoustic image would stay put.

Jeff

This sounds promising and I expect Trinnov will yield superior results than the latest Audessy with my 7.1 Front Height Configuration.

Room depth is 18'
Stereo L/R 6' Separation.Omnipolar.
CC 7' Omnipolar inveted
Front Height L/R 7' Height 9 'Separation. Omnipolar inverted .
Surround L/R 14' deep 7 ' height. Omnipolar inverted .

If Trinnov can image Front Height to the back 18' that would be amazing.

BTW is dac 24 bit for all channels

THX

[ggunnell]

. . . Feeding 1080p from a Blu-ray disc straight to a display while also feeding TrueHD, multichannel PCM, or DTS-HD to a receiver in the digital domain is tricky at best (if not downright impossible) when the video bypasses the receiver. You would basically need two HDMI outputs on the player, and that's not something I've seen on sources so far.

One solution to this is the DVDO Edge (see the Video Processors section here). In addition to regular HDMI output, the EDGE had an HDMI jack that just outputs the audio portion of the signal piggybacked on a blank 720p video signal.

[DonoMan]

Basically I just want to use an AVR or Pre/Pro for Full Length films and HD Audio but do I really need to consume all that AVR power when my daughter wants to watch Dora The Explorer.

Does Swiper the Fox really need to consume more power. I say no.
If eh current AVR cannot do it I am hoping the Outlaw Pre/Prowill have two HDMI outputs so this would resolve allthat uinessary power consumption when a broadcast only need the TV speakers.

My receiver, amp, crossover, equalizer, cable box, video processor use about 0.8 amps total when on but not actually doing signal processing. Using the receiver adds little inefficiency overall and hardly consumes more power unless you actually have it cranked up.

[stikle]

P. S. There is a school of thought that all video should bypass the AVR and go directly to the display device. This is an option with the R-872.
Wouldn't that negate HDMI switching then? Or am I not understanding what you're saying?

One of the reasons I liked this AVR was that I wouldn't have to mess with inputs on the TV anymore. One cable, one input, done.

Of course, bypassing the AVR for all video means no upscaling of SD broadcasts...of which there are still plenty.

[DonoMan]

Wouldn't that negate HDMI switching then? Or am I not understanding what you're saying?

Yes, it would. That school in general is wrong, but may be right with the 872 where you don't have a "don't molest my video" mode.

[nakenergy]

Are there any FINAL official specs on R-972? I do see the receiver on the Singapore Sherwood site but not on the US site.

[Stereojeff]

nakenergy:

Drop my a line and I'll send the final R-972 brochure.

jeff@sherwoodamerica.com

[nakenergy]

Thanks for the brochure Jeff. Any ETA on availability?

[ghislain]

thanks for the brochure jeff...

+1

[hok007]

Thanks Jeff! Any closer to a final word on pricing or an ETA?

[pred1973]

Thanks Jeff! Any closer to a final word on pricing or an ETA?

the question that some of us have been asking for well over a year now.....

[Manamb]

which websites are covering the Audioholics STOU 2008?
I want to check what they say about this AVR, the Audioholics website doesn't seem to have news at the moment.

Thanks

[jotronic]

Jeff,

" For the R-872 we thought there were performance advantages to be gained by deinterlacing 1080i with our built-in Faroudja DCDi chip. I still do."

What are these performance advantages?


"P. S. There is a school of thought that all video should bypass the AVR and go directly to the display device. This is an option with the R-872."

Are you referring to bypassing the use of HDMI on the AVR and plugging directly into the TV? That is NOT why I ordered this unit.

I'm very disappointed in SN because of the limited video options. I ordered my 872 in January and was one of the first to receive a unit in North America and posted most likely the first user review on the web (search my username). My review had the first mention of the lack of video pass-through.

Since I received my unit I have not yet purchased a Blue Ray drive so the latest information regarding 1080P input only adds to my disappointment above and beyond not being able to pass video through unmolested. My SD channels are not displayed correctly in that the image is shifted slightly to the left thus cutting off about half an inch of the image. HD TV is perfectly fine and the sound quality matches if not exceeds my older SN 863.

I am thoroughly disappointed to know that my brand new unit has a discontinued video chip right out of the gate. I originally ordered this unit for the 4 HDMI inputs, the SN sound that I have come to enjoy and the idea that this would be my last AVR for several years. My plan has unfortunately been shredded.

Therefore, sound quality aside, I cannot recommend SN to anyone based on these "oversights" by the company. One can get an AVR for half the price that has more user options. If you are considering the 972 then do yourself a favor and do not become an early adopter. Let someone else find out that the product is not what they expect then wait for SN to upgrade to internals that are actually current generation.

You have been warned.

[Mauro]

I too was alarmed to see use of this now old and very tired Faroudja DCDi chip been used by Sherwood in their 872. I quickly removed this from my list although thankfully, see that the 972 has the Reon chip, from one extreme to the other. My last concern here(972) is what dac chips are they planning to use, no mention anywhere, time to start worrying again.

[fteixeira]

Just posted:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sherwood-r-972-trinnov-eq

fteixeira

[FreddyW]

Just posted:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sherwood-r-972-trinnov-eq

fteixeira

I don't care if the Trinnov washes the windows. If that thing doesn't have TWO HDMI outputs, put me down for "pass."

[Tim Christianson]

Not exactly a "glowing" review....

QUOTE: For many advanced Home Theater connoisseurs Trinnov Optimization is likely not much more than an audio-gimmick. But for HT-newbies it’s a great way to jump into a competent surround setup.

Oh well.....

[jdskycaster]

Tim,
Way to leave out the sentence prior...

QUOTE: The room EQ effect was suitably impressive. As we switched from a standard setting to fully processed, the Trinnov processing suddenly made dialogue more articulate and bumped up the fine acoustic effects that are easy to miss in any soundtrack. The results of the room EQ process were remarkable. END QUOTE

Although you may characterize this as a ho-hum review I would not. This is a very brief report based on room acoustics that were far from ideal. I would be very interested hearing for myself what Trinnov can do in a much better room. I currently use Sherwood SNAP and would not consider myself a newbie to HT sound. This review reaks of bias and a total lack of knowledge regarding the Trinnov optimization technology as it pertains to the $13K system as well as Sherwoods implementation of it.

Audioholics automatically disregards the technology due to the fact that the R-972 does not have a list price in the $20K range. If it did they would be falling all over themselves describing how 3-dimensional the sound is and how this system completely trumps any other attempt at room EQ and summing up by saying something like "Finally a room EQ system that every true home theater audiofile should have."

Seems like I remember similar articles regarding Pro-Logic surround decoders when they first came on the market being pissed on by every so-called "golden eared" a$$ monkey hired to write a review.

Sorry for the rant. Back to the regularly scheduled disenchantment with Sherwoods release schedule.

JD

[Tim Christianson]

JD, I took the review as "mediocre" at best. I was expecting much more, especially after Chuck Back, Gary Reber, etc. gave very favorable first impressions of the Trinnov. I just had my hopes up too high I guess.:confused:

[nakenergy]

Agree with JD. The review also lists the HSU HB-1 speakers; clicking on the HB-1 link in the article takes you to a review of those speakers in April 2007 while Hsu has the new MK2 version selling for long on their web site which is deemed to be far better that the reviewed ones.

[DonoMan]

No speaker that size can fill a large room well (at least not by our standards) down to 80Hz, no matter who designs them. Bad choice on SN's part.

[Mauro]

Bump.

[Classico]

No speaker that size can fill a large room well (at least not by our standards) down to 80Hz, no matter who designs them. Bad choice on SN's part.

My concern would be: WHY did SN use the ultra efficient Hsu speakers? (BTW the Hsu's have a really great sound when used properly) For a "flagship" AV in this price range one would like to get the feeling that the 972 can drive most any kind of speaker, and SN should like to 'prove' it. At his CES demos Dr. Hsu drives these speakers with a 75 watt bottom line Pioneer receiver using 'zip' cord for speaker cable--and they still sound impressive. (having his full array of subs didnt hurt either)

SN needs to demonstrate what this puppy can do with a FULL set of quality speakers (86-89db efficient) that one who is looking to spend $1200-1500 (street price) on a quality AVR might have. Otherwise, someone might think SN is trying to hide something. JMO

Classico

[yngdiego]

SN needs to demonstrate what this puppy can do with a FULL set of quality speakers (86-89db efficient) that one who is looking to spend $1200-1500 (street price) on a quality AVR might have. Otherwise, someone might think SN is trying to hide something. JMO

Classico

Given their spec sheets do not, at my last reading, give full bandwidth all-channels-driven specs for 5.1/7.1, I tend to agree that they may be hiding a potentially weak amp.

Although I realize under normal listening conditions all channels will not be driven full bandwidth, it does provide a way to compare various amps. Providing a single number, at say 10KHz, doesn't give me much confidence in the amp section.

[cybrsage]

I don't care if the Trinnov washes the windows. If that thing doesn't have TWO HDMI outputs, put me down for "pass."

If it washes windows, just buy a HDMI splitter or such. It would be a good investment. :)

[FreddyW]

If it washes windows, just buy a HDMI splitter or such. It would be a good investment. :)

Right, except it would have to be an HDMI splitter that actually WORKED.

[cybrsage]

Right, except it would have to be an HDMI splitter that actually WORKED.

Yeah, I thought that was understood. Buying something which does not work is not a good solution. :)

[gtoboss]

Any news on release date?

[samsurd2]

^^In ~2 months, it will be 2 FREAKIN' YEARS since the R-972 was intro'd at CES 2007.

[shanksworthy]

^^In ~2 months, it will be 2 FREAKIN' YEARS since the R-972 was intro'd at CES 2007.

Wow. SN must have some serious money to burn, spending that much time (or longer) on a development cycle of a 'flagship' product.

Remember how earlier this year everybody was hopeful when it was estimated that the R-972 would be released in late July or early August? That seems so long ago now...

[steve shisler]

Any news on release date?

"Coming Soon to a retailer near you"

"Soon" is defined in the Sherwood-Newcastle dictionary as: "2 years, give or take"

:eek:

[cybrsage]

My biggest concern is that all the time it has taken has pushed them into the realm of being obsolete already.

Trinnov seems to be such a great and wonderful thing. But since the rest of the receiver is mostly made up of two year old technology, is it enough?

I want this receiver to succeed so that others pick up the technology as well. Better for everyone that way!

[tempus06]

Hell, still no accurate release date ?!

Thankfully I bought a R965 to wait and I don't regret it.

[hok007]

I just got an email from my local SN retailer. He says, and I quote, "Just heard back from the distributor .... Jan 2009 at the earliest."

[steve shisler]

I just got an email from my local SN retailer. He says, and I quote, "Just heard back from the distributor .... Jan 2009 at the earliest."


I'm shocked! Pay close attention to "at the earliest".

[yngdiego]

I'm shocked! Pay close attention to "at the earliest".

At this rate the entire AVR will be so outdated when its released they will have to scrap it and start all over with a new model.

[jdskycaster]

Although many manufacturers are on what I would call their 2nd generation HDMI 1.3 compatible receivers I would disagree that this receiver would be obsolete next year. If it offers HDMI 1.3 compatibility along with video processing and audio processing of the current formats it could hardly be considered outdated. The integration of Trinnov is a step ahead of the competition in the processing arena.

The mistake that Sherwood is guilty of is announcing a product and then deciding to make significant changes to the feature set without communicating this to it's customer base. I personally do not think this was a bad decision just as long as they deliver a product that provides a significant price/performance advantage over the currently shipping competitors product. I am still very happy with the performance of my P965. It took a couple years to determine that it was the proper solution for my needs and I can do without beta testing all of the current generation receivers and pre-pros. They are all far from perfect and would not be what I would call long term solutions for my theater.

JD

[DonoMan]

Other than the Faroudja/Reon thing, its specs seem to have gone DOWN (# HDMI, etc)

[Trendmonger]

I'm shocked! Pay close attention to "at the earliest".

While many turned their heads long ago two years was the magical break point.
In this time the Onkyo 876 which not only deals well with low impedance
full range front speakers requirements
but the latest Audyssey, HQV, THX,neural and HD Radio was well worth my testing it out.

There is no need to flood this topic with my analytical perception of this AVR but minimally
while I do enjoy many of the Onkyo 876 features, be it direct audio, processed audio
or processed video I do very much look forward to getting a Sherwood or Outlaw with Trinnov at a future date.

600 fishnagels below R972 list had me pull the trigger on the 876.

[Llanowar]

The r-972 has been added on the sherwood page (http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r972.html) and the german sherwood page (http://www.sherwood.de/products/r_972.php). The thing that suprises me the most is the weight (27 kg. net)!! That looks like they implemented about the same power as the a-965 in a normal reciever (as they used the 965 serie sound as reference for this receiver). Really interested now if they can put it out any soon, as they got real competition from pioneer, harman kardon (the 755 will come out beginning of 2009) and even the new Arcam avr600.

[DonoMan]

I don't know what Pioneer you're thinking about but the 755 is not even close. Outdated Faroudja crap and HK's POS EZ-Set crap? No thanks. Only thing HK has going for it is Logic 7.

[Llanowar]

I don't know what Pioneer you're thinking about but the 755 is not even close. Outdated Faroudja crap and HK's POS EZ-Set crap? No thanks. Only thing HK has going for it is Logic 7.

The SC-07 is getting rave reviews over here in Europe... HK needs to sort out it's QC before i would ever buy one... and yes EZ is crap too, but i like the way they sound.

[Steve.]

I just got an email from my local SN retailer. He says, and I quote, "Just heard back from the distributor .... Jan 2009 at the earliest."


Don't worry SN fanboys. it should be here before 2010... built on an '06 chassis of course !

[facesnorth]

At this rate the entire AVR will be so outdated when its released they will have to scrap it and start all over with a new model.


Yeah, I've rapidly lost excitement about this product. To hear that even the Outlaw pre/pro won't go beyond 4 HDMI inputs was a major bummer as well. They may as well just forget about this one and come up with a successor.

[jotronic]

I can understand everyone's frustation. I waited from January to Sept. just to get my R-872 and let me tell you, that was several months of wasted anticipation. I just sent the unit back and picked up the Yammie RX-V1900. Soooo much nicer unit and the best thing is, everything works as advertised! One thing I like about it are all the preset sound parameters that Yamaha is known for. They work great for my Xvid movie collection and have improved the sound greatly.

I hope though that the 972 comes out soon for all of you still waiting but if my 872 is anything to judge it by the tech, aside from the Trinnov, will be discontinued before it even hits the showrooms.

[Llanowar]

In what ways will this amp be outdated, i haven't seen any "arguments" pointing that way, only vague assumptions about might have been skipped on or left out.

[DonoMan]

In what ways will this amp be outdated, i haven't seen any "arguments" pointing that way, only vague assumptions about might have been skipped on or left out.

They're just saying that because of the age. It's true for the R872. We'll see for the 972. But the 972 should be safe.

[jotronic]

Keep in mind that when the 872 and 972 were announced (January 2007) they already had the designs finalized or very close to it.

These are the issues that caused me to return this unit:

On the SN website they say that they 872 upscales to 1080p. Fine, but what they don't say is that the 872 does not accept a 1080p signal. When I asked Jeff about this he told me that the video capabilities were in line with the standard of the time. In other words, 1080p was not prevalent as a resolution that could be handled by the top AVRs of the time. Translation, I bought an AVR in September 2008 that was in line with the latest technology in late 2006/ early 2007.

There is no option of turning the scaling OFF so ALL signals regardless of the source are scaled in some way. I have an HDMI DVD player (no HD yet) and an HDMI PVR. Because the DVD player, the AVR AND the TV do some sort of upscaling there would ultimately be confusion in the line and my picture would black out and would not come back but the sound would still play. I had to set scaling to 480i on the receiver in order to watch a simple DVD with no issues. You can set the resolution for each input which is good but for my PVR input I set the resolution to 720p because that was the highest I could get away with and still be able to watch HD channels as well.

Any SD signals were displayed off center so the left edge of my picture was cut off.

HDMI drop out was horrendous. This was not only when switching channels (SD or HD) but also when listening to CD tracks. A new track would start and the first three seconds would be cut off due to handshaking issues.

If any of you are seriously considering the 872, move on to something else. If you are seriously considering the 972 then by only after you have read reviews that specifically discuss the video capabilities of the unit or even better wait till you can play with one yourself. If the 872 is any indication then the 972 is also designed based on the best of early 2007. I recommend you find out just what model of Reon chip is being used for the scaling abilities as well as whether or not you have the option of passthrough. And I hope it does not have the same delay when switching between sound tracks on CD's or DVD's like I had.

[tonov12]

Still nothing official on release? I'm looking forward to the Outlaw version but that's not gonna happen till this gets released.

[cybrsage]

It is December...anything new?

[cybrsage]

Info from the other SN 972 thread:

Hello all! I emailed Jeff outside of this forum and he did reply saying that they have confidence that the technical challenges have been resolved and that the unit would be generally available at the end of January 2009.

[miltimj]

These are the issues that caused me to return this unit:

On the SN website they say that they 872 upscales to 1080p. Fine, but what they don't say is that the 872 does not accept a 1080p signal...

There is no option of turning the scaling OFF so ALL signals regardless of the source are scaled in some way.

Any SD signals were displayed off center so the left edge of my picture was cut off.

HDMI drop out was horrendous. This was not only when switching channels (SD or HD) but also when listening to CD tracks. A new track would start and the first three seconds would be cut off due to handshaking issues.

jotronic,

You seem to have the same priorities as me w/regard to video capabilities of an AVR. Have you seen any recently that meet the above needs (or those coming out in the near future)? I used to care more about audio for my AVRs, but with different resolutions, aspect ratios, and digital/analog video being very prominent now, the scaling is becoming most important. Yet, I can't bring myself to get an external scaler for $1K+.

[cybrsage]

No news is good news?

[samsurd2]

No news seems to be the usual news.

[DonoMan]

No news is good news?

Definitely not when it comes to this product.

[rolandtk]

Sherwood's product web page is up, but hidden from the receiver list - lots of typos and metric units, so it probably being edited.
http://sherwoodusa.com/prod_r972_feature.html
dont see DSD..

[AudioBear]

Outlaw announced today that their pre-amp version of the SN 972 will be available in late 1Q 2009. The specifically said this was because the SN receivers would be manufactured for SN first and then their pre-amp version would be made.

Looking more and more like it will be reality.

[FreddyW]

It's a shame that it's seemingly come to this. 2 years since the original announcement and nothing to show for it. I'm not sure how big Sherwood is, but unless I'm mistaken, they are the contract manufacturers for Denon and Marantz? I hope so. I don't know how they'd make it on their own as a boutique manufacturer, particularly in this economic climate.

At this point, the jury is out on this "Trinnov process." Maybe it was too expensive to license, maybe it was not exactly as advertised. Other than that, what did/does this unit have to offer?

I usd to own a P-965. It was decent. I thought the interface and remote commands (not the physical remote, but the commands loaded on it) were horrid. Even after I paid for the upgrade, the auto sensor never worked right.

I compare it to the Denon 3808Ci I currently own, and I find tha tI vastly prefer the Denon. Ease of use, ok the remote stinks to high heaven, sound quality, and video switching. Only mistake I made was not going to the 4308Ci, because it has dual HDMI outputs.

[Steve.]

I had a 965 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough, it was one of the worst user interfaces I've ever encountered. Cheap construction masked by a semi attractive front panel. Two channel performance sucked, although it did sound pretty decent with movies. I dumped it and bought a McCormack stereo pre with HT bypass and couldn't be happier.

[yngdiego]

I compare it to the Denon 3808Ci I currently own, and I find tha tI vastly prefer the Denon. Ease of use, ok the remote stinks to high heaven, sound quality, and video switching. Only mistake I made was not going to the 4308Ci, because it has dual HDMI outputs.

For me, the perfect receiver would be a Denon 3808CI with Trinnov, ASSUMING Trinnov is a large improvement over Audyssey, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic volume. If Trinnov flops or only on par with Audyssey MultiEQ, then I see no reason to go with Sherwood.

Unfortunately it will be a few more months before people can determine if Trinnov really is that good, or just all hype. I'm hoping Sherwood doesn't have an exclusive arrangement with Trinnov so other manufacturers can use the technology, IF it lives up to its hype.

[jdskycaster]

I had a 965 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough, it was one of the worst user interfaces I've ever encountered. Cheap construction masked by a semi attractive front panel. Two channel performance sucked, although it did sound pretty decent with movies. I dumped it and bought a McCormack stereo pre with HT bypass and couldn't be happier.

I am glad you are happy but why would anyone purchase a P965 for 2-channel audio? This pre-pro is not just decent for HT it was and still offers excellent performance for it's price tag and feature set. I paid $750 for mine 2 years ago. Which pre-pro on the market, at that time, offered better sound for less $$? Anyone that steered you in that direction for 2-channel audio was wrong in doing so.

Slick user interfaces are nice but once I have any unit installed and configured I never see the interface again. The remote handles all of the adjustments for me. If you are reading this thread in hope that the R-972 will be a top performer for multi-channel as well as 2-channel I would not hold my breath. I have yet to hear a pre-pro or AVR for under $2K that is a serious 2-channel rig.

Regards,
JD

[DonoMan]

Take your snobbery (and incorrect snobbery at that) back to the section of the forum for it.

[tsd2005]

Take your snobbery (and incorrect snobbery at that) back to the section of the forum for it.

There is a section for snobbery? Who exactly were you replying to anyway? Everyone interested in the Sherwood or one person in particular. The quote command is useful!

I'm real confused on the P965 2 channel bashing going on here. It was actually a pretty good rig for that. I'd guess it was some other part of the sound chain that was the problem. A bad amp, bad CD player, or bad speakers. They may not be "bad," but they're most likely bad with the Newcastle gear. There is such a thing as SYNERGY with audio gear. Some amps and speakers don't sound good together.

[tsd2005]

As for the R872 and its issues:

UNFORGIVABLE. The fact that it doesn't accept a 1080p signal is totally unacceptable. This unit could easily have been altered for that at limited cost.

In fact it's basically false advertising when it claims to be a 1080p capable receiver. Sherwood would be SMART to recall the item and replace them with true 1080p. They specifically need to start advertising that they are the only HDMI 1.3 receiver on the market that can't take 1080p signals (at least that I'm aware of).

I've always been a huge fan of Jeff. This really is totally unacceptable. The argument that it's not a massive bug is laughable. That is exactly what it is a huge bug that never should have gone past beta stage.

The argument that tech wasn't there is also again laughable. Nextgen DVD was already in full swing. The idea to be able to decode the nextgen codecs was always there, so the idea to display the discs images had to have been there as well.

This is one of those problems that Sherwood should be jumping to fix and not make excuses for.

[colossus]

Not looking to bash here but I got tired of the wait.

I gave up and bought a Denon.

[cybrsage]

Late Q1 of 2009?

I am still hopeful it is a great product. If they delay it enough, I might be back in the market for a new receiver. ;)

[tkntz]

Where did you hear late 1Q 2009? Outlaw announced a few days ago that their cousin, the 997, would be released in 1Q. The S/N R-972 is going to be released before the 997, so early 1Q still makes sense for the R-972. The last report for a release date of the R-972 was late January. It was hearsay, but there has been no denial of that date.

[cybrsage]

Where did you hear late 1Q 2009? Outlaw announced a few days ago that their cousin, the 997, would be released in 1Q. The S/N R-972 is going to be released before the 997, so early 1Q still makes sense for the R-972. The last report for a release date of the R-972 was late January. It was hearsay, but there has been no denial of that date.

Ah, I misread the post from near the top of this page. My bad.

Are you sure they said 2009 and not 2109? ;)

[jotronic]

miltimj,

Sorry so long to respond. I haven't been on the forums for a while.

When I expressed my disappointment with the 872 to my dealer he was really surprised about the unit's deficiencies but was very quick in accepting it back. The sound was great which was a plus but when it was all said and done the shortcomings I listed were just too much to deal with. So, before I boxed it up I did a couple of weeks of research and chose the Yammy RX-V1900. The SINGLE biggest option I was looking for was pass-through for all video signals because I decided that I did not want any interference with the video. I bought a Panasonic BD-35 Blue Ray player and now all is right with the world.

tsd2005,

"This is one of those problems that Sherwood should be jumping to fix and not make excuses for."

I agree but I figure SN is too busy trying to get the 972 working well enough to get out the door to worry about their non-flagship units. I'm surprised it even made it out of the factory door myself. For me, I'll never buy another SN product, Trinnov or no. If I ever get a unit with Trinnov it will be an Outlaw or some other product if they ever license it out. For now I'm happy with my Yammy and will forever have the memory of this bad experience with Sherwood/Newcastle.

[Trendmonger]

http://www.timessquarenyc.org/nye/images/historyBall.jpg

[Sickofthehype]

miltimj,

Sorry so long to respond. I haven't been on the forums for a while.

When I expressed my disappointment with the 872 to my dealer he was really surprised about the unit's deficiencies but was very quick in accepting it back. The sound was great which was a plus but when it was all said and done the shortcomings I listed were just too much to deal with. So, before I boxed it up I did a couple of weeks of research and chose the Yammy RX-V1900. The SINGLE biggest option I was looking for was pass-through for all video signals because I decided that I did not want any interference with the video. I bought a Panasonic BD-35 Blue Ray player and now all is right with the world.

tsd2005,

"This is one of those problems that Sherwood should be jumping to fix and not make excuses for."

I agree but I figure SN is too busy trying to get the 972 working well enough to get out the door to worry about their non-flagship units. I'm surprised it even made it out of the factory door myself. For me, I'll never buy another SN product, Trinnov or no. If I ever get a unit with Trinnov it will be an Outlaw or some other product if they ever license it out. For now I'm happy with my Yammy and will forever have the memory of this bad experience with Sherwood/Newcastle.

If I'm not mistaken the Outlaw 997 will be manufactured by SN. My P965 had decent sound but was quirky, I won't buy another SN product again either, the support was just not there..

[Legairre]

WOW! this thread was started in Jan 07 and these units were supposed to be out in August 07. It's almost a year and a half past their release date and they still aren't out? I got tied of waiting in December 07. Glad I didn't wait any longer. Sherwood's P-965 is a great pre-amp but out dated and they still haven't come out with these yet? I really liked Sherwood but this delay crazy. I hate to think what my 965 would be worth today I hadn't sold it and moved on. Sherwood makes great units but they have got to get them to market. They've lost a lot of business with these delays.

[cybrsage]

I still think the wait is not actually due to anything with the 972, it is actually that they are waiting so they can give a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever with the AVR.

:)

[noah katz]

It's getting close to the latest promised release date, so how about not disappointing people hoping for news with more of the same old complaints.

[Trendmonger]

It's getting close to the latest promised release date, so how about not disappointing people hoping for news with more of the same old complaints.

Latest as in most recent or in latest possible release date.
You could always take my approach and start researching new years eve balls.

I don't want to get too cynical but outside of waiting for two years
I have come to accept that my ownership of this type of product will be a future one.
For now I am happy with an Onkyo 876 for the next few years.
If and when Trinnov becomes standardized and sells at a very good price point I will change.

Since moving from 2.1 to where I now listen 2.0, 2.1, 5.1 and 7.1
with my speaker setup and room configuration room correction has not even been an issue.
All my speakers are omnidirectional and I have not noticed a need for room correction.

[noah katz]

Latest as in most recent estimate, which was late January.

[krholmberg]

I have my fingers and toes crossed. I've been patiently waiting since 01/07. Luckily I've found other electronics more important to upgrade in the meantime.

[jdskycaster]

I hear ya,
There is always something to upgrade. I am still 720p in my dedicated HT. Waiting for my current PJ to die so I can go with one of the slick new sub $3K 1080p guns. I sold my PS3 last year so I have been without Blu-Ray which I will be looking into again when I go 1080p. Of course I will have to upgrade Pre-Pro's or replace with an AVR to handle the new audio formats. Oh, and my most recent addition was a new subwoofer which was an unplanned upgrade due to the untimely death of my velodyne:)

It never ends. This is why I feel it is of no use to get upset about the delay of any particular product. There is always something to buy/upgrade/replace. And although I would have liked to see the 972 a year ago - sitting on sidelines reading of the issues with other AVR's and Pre-pros has been amusing. The first and second gen receivers have all had their quirks and issues. I am not trying to say that the owners of these units are not satisfied, I am just saying that in my personal situation I am still content with what I have until I see something worthy of my cash.

Best Regards,
JD

[jotronic]

If I'm not mistaken the Outlaw 997 will be manufactured by SN. My P965 had decent sound but was quirky, I won't buy another SN product again either, the support was just not there..

They do indeed. In fact, they OEM for many different manufacturers such as Marantz (and Denon) as well as others but they make these units to the specs of the client. Regardless, I'm not buying Newcastle again unless of course I know that the interface is improved and all the bugs I've encountered in the i872 have been avoided or worked out. My problem was that I was a first in line buyer without waiting to see what others experienced before hand.

I still think the wait is not actually due to anything with the 972, it is actually that they are waiting so they can give a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever with the AVR.

Hahahaha! Or a brand new Moller Skycar!