Sherwood Newcastle R-872 & R-972 HDMI 1.3 receivers

[misterjensen]

Sherwood Newcastle showed off two new receivers at CES, the R-872 and R-972. Both should be available in August and will include HDMI 1.3 inputs with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD processing, the major differences are listed below:

R-872
- Text on screen display
- 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $999

R-972
- GUI on screen display
- 6 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $1499

In my humble opinion, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, etc. are going to really have to come out with something special to get anywhere close to these kind of features at this low of a price point.

Links
From CNET:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9676526-5.html?tag=blog

From Audioholics:
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESprocessors/SherwoodR972.php

[bwclark]

Availability....August!

SN's look great, but keep your options open til then....many others will also have something to offer. ;)

[misterjensen]

Availability....August!

SN's look great, but keep your options open til then....many others will also have something to offer. ;)

Let's hear it for latest and greatest features with falling prices! :D

[Soransis]

Only thing that threw me off was the August release date, granted I won't be home until then, that doesn't give this receiver any time to come down on the street price at all. Still 2 SWEEEEET receivers, and I'm very interested in what the other makers have to "say" about it. (What will they come up with to counter these 2 receivers, lets all hope for the best!!)

[RAVEN56706]

probably will get the r-872..... if someone comes out with something else..... will rethink but not sure if they can beat the price

[Duckie24]

I'd like to see some more detailed info about the de-i/scaling capabilities of this receiver before I hail it as the next coming of Christ.

[JOHNnDENVER]

August!!! I would of went crazy with my theater by then. Even June, heck probaly even March would of put me over the rainbow crazy as they say.


Sounds like soom uber cool products though for sure.

[Jack_T]

I'd like to see some more detailed info about the de-i/scaling capabilities of this receiver before I hail it as the next coming of Christ.

I agree completely.

[misterjensen]

I'd like to see some more detailed info about the de-i/scaling capabilities of this receiver before I hail it as the next coming of Christ.

Audioholics says it upscales everything to 1080P, but I have not read anything else. I wonder if it will accept 1080P over component and then pass it through HDMI? I would REALLY love that since my HDTV only takes 1080P over HDMI and my XBOX 360 only outputs 1080P over component (at least until they release an updated HDMI version).

[new27]

it sounds as if they never actually demonstrated the units, hopefully this isn't more infamous trade show vaporware

I'm very interested in it's video proccessing also.

All those HDMI inputs, plus next gen audio decoding, plus hdmi 1.3 sound very very
sweet

[Cajun_Mike]

The sherwood also has Audyssey room calibration. They certainly knocked one out of the park with those specs.

[Istari1]

Whats the old saying though? "A receiver in hand if worth two at CES" . . . something like that :) I'll wait till this thing actually makes it into stores, and if its not coming out till august then the other players have plenty of time to get their new AVRs out the door with similar (or better?!?) features.

[misterjensen]

I'll wait till this thing actually makes it into stores, and if its not coming out till august then the other players have plenty of time to get their new AVRs out the door with similar (or better?!?) features.

Have any other HDMI 1.3 receivers even been officially announced? How long is it from product announcement to availability with the receiver manufacturers usually?

[ktoolsie]

Will the Audyssey equalization also be included in the cheaper 872 model? $500 seems a lot for a couple more HDMI inputs and a more sophisticated on-screed display. At the very least I'd expect the 972 to have more powerful amps than its lower priced brother.

I'd love to see them come out with pre-amps based on both of these announced receivers, with a price saving of about $200 for going without the amps. If they did, Outlaw would have to seriously rejig their line-up.

Somehow though I suspect that they will release a preamp based on the more expensive preamp only.

[misterjensen]

I just got an e-mail from Maria at Sherwood. She said that product literature will be available for the new models next week. She asked me for my mailing address and said she will mail them out to me when the literature becomes available. I'll let you know when I get anything.

[Wesley Hester]

I posted in the wrong thread earlier:

This is my next A/V Receiver unless Denon changes my mind. The R-972 had me at "hello".

The front faceplate: "my god it's full of logos".

The images I've seen thus far are not very detailed but is that a DCDi Faroudja logo on the front, the next to last one?

[SbWillie]

4 HDMI in for $1K?!?!?..haven't seen anything close to that AOY!

I think I'll settle for a cheapy 1016 just to be able to buy one of those later this year! :D :D :D

[SirJohnFalstaff]

A good friend of mine has an older SN receiver and swears by it. I've listened to it and really liked what I heard. Even the titanium finish is acceptible--and I usually only go for black.

I've decided to wait until the fall to upgrade my receiver, and I think one of these two do just fine.

Please, guys, post any additional info when you get it!

[whiterhino]

*bump*

[dakar80124]

Well I'm not sad I bought a new receiver 2 months ago now. I figured they would have new hdmi 1.3 + receivers available by this fall but > 6 months is way to long to wait for something.

[Duckie24]

Audioholics says it upscales everything to 1080P, but I have not read anything else. I wonder if it will accept 1080P over component and then pass it through HDMI? I would REALLY love that since my HDTV only takes 1080P over HDMI and my XBOX 360 only outputs 1080P over component (at least until they release an updated HDMI version).

If you find anything out about that, please post it. That would be incredible if it could do that as I am in the same predicament with my XB360. It would be really nice if it could de-i/scale HDMI inputs as well because I have a DVD player that is HDMI, but outputs 1080i via HDMI. Seems like you have to go for a dedicated de-i/scaler to get that.

[jrock99]

I'd like to see some more detailed info about the de-i/scaling capabilities of this receiver before I hail it as the next coming of Christ.

If it can do a setup and operational GUI at 1080P with basic pass though it's still in front of anything out there even remotely close to the MSRP. Cool specs, good price, brand with a decent history.

What's not to like? (other then the wait)

[benezrj]

Forgive my ignorance, but the features for the 972 include:
Some of the most noted features include:

*Converts HDMI video to analog*

Does this mean that if one were to connect an HD or BD DVD player's HDMI out to the receiver, that one could get HD output over component video? I have an older CRT HD RPTV with only component video for 1080 and would appreciate such a feature. But wouldn't this defeat the ICF restriction? I don't plan on replacing my TV anytime soon and because of the ICF issue, I've been holding off on considering buying a HD or BD DVD player. Since I need a new receiver/prepro, the Sherwood would solve 2 problems for me. JEFF

[misterjensen]

Forgive my ignorance, but the features for the 972 include:
Some of the most noted features include:

*Converts HDMI video to analog*

Does this mean that if one were to connect an HD or BD DVD player's HDMI out to the receiver, that one could get HD output over component video? I have an older CRT HD RPTV with only component video for 1080 and would appreciate such a feature. But wouldn't this defeat the ICF restriction? I don't plan on replacing my TV anytime soon and because of the ICF issue, I've been holding off on considering buying a HD or BD DVD player. Since I need a new receiver/prepro, the Sherwood would solve 2 problems for me. JEFF

If this feature spec is correct, it would most likely downscale the resolution by 1/2 due to the restriction.

[DonoMan]

The images I've seen thus far are not very detailed but is that a DCDi Faroudja logo on the front, the next to last one?

Oh man, I hope not. DCDi instead of ReonVX would be a real bummer.

[Stereojeff]

The R-972 uses the Faroudja Cortez platform for scaling and deinterlacing while the R-872 uses the Faroudja FL2301.

Jeff

[MSmith83]

The R-972 uses the Faroudja Cortez platform for scaling and deinterlacing while the R-872 uses the Faroudja FL2301.

Jeff
What are the differences between the two? Is the Cortez Faroudja's flagship solution, and do any current devices use it?

[Jack_T]

What are the differences between the two? Is the Cortez Faroudja's flagship solution, and do any current devices use it?

If I'm not mistaken, the cortez chip is in the Sony 5200ES. My understanding is that this receiver does not have the greatest deinterlacing performance, but that may be largely due to implementation.

My perception is that you can do alot with a modest chipset if you know what you're doing and want to spend the effort. By the same token, just plopping some badass chip into your product gets you nothing in and of itself.

[psychdoctor]

I understand the rave for HDMI 1.3 A/V receivers is for additional future proof security, deep color pass, decoding TrueHD/ DD+ lossless, but think about it. The optical source (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) will still have to "decode" off the disc before it pass (unzipped) to 1.3 a/v receiver. IMHO, there is no advantage of the receiver to decode TrueHD/DD+ or DTS Master when most high end optical players will do it for you. If the disc has Lossless sound, then no improvement can be made to lossless sound, whether it be decoded by optical player or a/v receiver.

[Soransis]

A lot of us don't care about the 1.3 HDMI, we are drooling over all the NEW features that are coming out in these receivers. I for one could care less if I had v1.3 or v1.1 in my receiver. I am jst looking forward to all the new features the companies are pumping into their receivers for the same prices as older models with not as much "cool" stuff.

[nilsp]

A lot of us don't care about the 1.3 HDMI, we are drooling over all the NEW features that are coming out in these receivers. I for one could care less if I had v1.3 or v1.1 in my receiver. I am jst looking forward to all the new features the companies are pumping into their receivers for the same prices as older models with not as much "cool" stuff.
If for nothing else, more HDMI inputs. :)

[new27]

psychdoctor,

if I'm not mistaken, there are no players that currently decode DTS MA

[Desmo888]

Does anyone know if a pre/pro is going to be offered?

[Gary Murrell]

psychdoctor,

if I'm not mistaken, there are no players that currently decode DTS MA

correct, the Panasonic BR will really soon from what is said ;)

-Gary

[bobpaule]

I just got an e-mail from Maria at Sherwood. She said that product literature will be available for the new models next week. She asked me for my mailing address and said she will mail them out to me when the literature becomes available. I'll let you know when I get anything.

Former P-965 owner here, sold out for Anthem D1. My experience with SN support has been excellent, they are polite, knowledgeable, really know how to make a customer feel special.

I just have a feeling my D1 may have to go after this toy comes out :)

[Gary Murrell]

Former P-965 owner here, sold out for Anthem D1. My experience with SN support has been excellent, they are polite, knowledgeable, really know how to make a customer feel special.

I just have a feeling my D1 may have to go after this toy comes out :)

agreed ;)

-Gary

[dsmith901]

The R-972 uses the Faroudja Cortez platform for scaling and deinterlacing while the R-872 uses the Faroudja FL2301.

Jeff

Isn't the FL2301 the one that has serious macroblocking issues with plasma TVs? If so those with plasmas should avoid it. But then I think the MB problem may just be with HDMI and not component. Guess we should just wait.

[DonoMan]

No, it doesn't depend on type of TV or connection. It depends on implementation and resolution. But it always sucks.

[cschang]

Does anyone know if a pre/pro is going to be offered?
From talking to Jeff at CES, my understanding is that it is still undecided.

[fresno1232001]

The R-972 is for me, unless some really bad news comes out about it. I have been waiting for HDMI and this has everything. I am reading nothing but good re Sherwood Newcastle. One of their current models weighs 55 lbs or something. Good. I also like the blue read-out. Not red or orange or green. I like blue. Just a small further thing in its favor.
There are 33 PAGES of discussion on here re "LFE, subwoofers and interconnects explained". It is in AVS "Audio Area" then in "Audio theory", then in "Set up and Chat". They list which AVR receivers handle LFE well and which do it poorly (whatever it means). I recommend reading it before you buy a receiver, and I will be VERY interested what is said there re the R-972 once someone who understands this issue gets hold of one. Apparently LFE has to be done right by your receiver or you are in trouble.
I will also buy the Panasonic Blue-Ray player DMPBD10 when prices fall. It is the only hi-def player so far saying it can play DVD-A. Question- since one of the hi-res sound codecs in the hi-def players is DTS, and DVD-A is DTS, why wont all the hi-def players with that codec in in them play DVD-A? Uninformed question, but would someone who knows the answer please comment- perhaps the folks at DTS.
correct, the Panasonic BR will really soon from what is said ;)

-Gary

[Wesley Hester]

The R-972 uses the Faroudja Cortez platform for scaling and deinterlacing while the R-872 uses the Faroudja FL2301.

Jeff


Does anyone know if the Faroudja Cortez has macroblocking issues like the FL2301 and 2310?

Also, can the DCDi processing be toggled off for those with better chipsets in their video players or choose to output an un-processed feed?


P.S. Here are some things from a Google session:

Press Release (http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/FaroudjaFLI8668CortezController.php)



Quotes from other forums:

Hello Everyone,

Since macroblocking is the #1 complaint about the current generation chips it seems likely (at least to me) that they fixed it in their latest chip. It doesn't exist in other companies' deinterlacers, so it can't be impossible to fix.

From the press release:
"Unlike competitive solutions that offer 8-bit processing with 10-bit input/output, where dithering and truncation artifacts can occur, our new Cortez Advanced family of products offers a true 10-bit performance throughout the entire pipeline of the controller, providing unmatched video performance in a flat-panel TV application."
Perhaps this is their way of acknowledging the existence of the macroblocking bug?


Macroblocking - It's not a bug, it's a feature.

[bfdtv]

Does anyone know if the Faroudja Cortez has macroblocking issues like the FL2301 and 2310?Yes, the current the Cortez solutions from Genesis exhibit macroblocking.

Genesis just announced (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=78051&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=949066&highlight=) its next-generation Cortez chip, codenamed "Torino," for 2007. AFAIK, it's not yet known whether "Torino" addresses the macroblock issue.

Also, can the DCDi processing be toggled off for those with better chipsets in their video players or choose to output an un-processed feed?Unknown.

[Digitally challe]

I just got an e-mail from Maria at Sherwood. She said that product literature will be available for the new models next week. She asked me for my mailing address and said she will mail them out to me when the literature becomes available. I'll let you know when I get anything.
I, too, would like further literature on Sherwood's new models. Could you post Maria's email address or a link? Thank you. -Bill

[Stereojeff]

maria@sherwoodamerica.com; 800 962-3203 ext. 113

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Regardless of the new features on these two receivers, why are reviews on any Sherwood Newcastle receivers few and far between? Plenty of people recommend them, but I can't find a whole lot of professional reviews out there covering their recent products. Heck, there own website seems quite out-of-date!

[Nunzi]

Sherwood Newcastle showed off two new receivers at CES, the R-872 and R-972. Both should be available in August and will include HDMI 1.3 inputs with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD processing, the major differences are listed below:

R-872
- Text on screen display
- 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $999

R-972
- GUI on screen display
- 6 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $1499

In my humble opinion, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, etc. are going to really have to come out with something special to get anywhere close to these kind of features at this low of a price point.

Links
From CNET:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9676526-5.html?tag=blog

From Audioholics:
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESprocessors/SherwoodR972.php
Sherwood needs to learn how to do the software right first!!!........The hardware build quality is great though :)

[whiterhino]

Regardless of the new features on these two receivers, why are reviews on any Sherwood Newcastle receivers few and far between? Plenty of people recommend them, but I can't find a whole lot of professional reviews out there covering their recent products. Heck, there own website seems quite out-of-date!

The R-972 has not been released yet. It was viewed at CES and there were several write ups about it. If/when it's released expect it to have quite a few articles published about it considering the amount of HDMI inputs it's going to have.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

The R-972 has not been released yet. It was viewed at CES and there were several write ups about it. If/when it's released expect it to have quite a few articles published about it considering the amount of HDMI inputs it's going to have.

I know these receivers are not out yet, but there are newer ones available that aren't listed on their site, let alone reviewed. I saw one this weekend that has a couple HDMI ports, but it's not on their site--and unfortunatley I can't remeber the model number.

It's just that when I do searches for reviews becasue I'm really interested in the R-972, I don't find many at all on their current models. Do they make good receivers? I've heard a few people swear by them, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

[Filthy McNasty]

I Do they make good receivers?

Yes they represent good value in the USA. However, in Canada, they have been waaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. Far superior Arcam products can be had for the same $$$.

However the good news is that Sherwood has deep sixed the Canadian distributor. You will soon be able to purchase directly from Axiom Speakers in Ontario - at hopefully more realistic markups.

[krholmberg]

I am getting the JVC RS1 next month (it has a Gennum chip) so I would prefer to output the native resolution of the input (meaning the signal is essentially untouched) and let the PJ do the upconversion. Does anyone know if the Cortez chip can be bypassed? I would think so but you never know.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Yes they represent good value in the USA. However, in Canada, they have been waaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. Far superior Arcam products can be had for the same $$$.

However the good news is that Sherwood has deep sixed the Canadian distributor. You will soon be able to purchase directly from Axiom Speakers in Ontario - at hopefully more realistic markups.

I'm aware of the good news about Axiom. I'll be ordering a new 5.1 system from them in just over two weeks, and then may buy 2 more rears along with the SN R-972 this fall to complete my system. They too recommended SN receivers to me last year well before they got into this partnership. I took that as an indication of the quality of SN.

[TheMoose]

Regardless of the new features on these two receivers, why are reviews on any Sherwood Newcastle receivers few and far between? Plenty of people recommend them, but I can't find a whole lot of professional reviews out there covering their recent products. Heck, there own website seems quite out-of-date!
Dealers are few & far between also.
I'm in Tulsa, not what you'd call a small town & the nearest dealer according to thier web site is over 100 miles away!

[Digitally challe]

maria@sherwoodamerica.com; 800 962-3203 ext. 113
Thank you. -Bill

[Bobkbusch]

The CES coverage I saw for the R-972 stated it will come with an RF remote. Anybody know if it will also accept IR so I can use my Universal Remote?

[QZ1]

I know these receivers are not out yet, but there are newer ones available that aren't listed on their site, let alone reviewed. I saw one this weekend that has a couple HDMI ports, but it's not on their site--and unfortunatley I can't remeber the model number.
Are you sure about that?
I am not aware of a current SN AVR with HDMI; if anyone knows of one, please post the info.

[BobL]

The R-871 was updated for HDMI. Jeff, can probably give you more details. Here is a link to a picture.

http://www.sherwood.de/images/products/large/r871back.html


Bob

[Wesley Hester]

Bump. Saving up now for the R-972 in August.

[G-force]

The R-972 will most likely be my next big home theater purchase. August will be here just in time for me to have my credit cards paid off ;)

[ericlhyman]

Does the Faroudja Cortez include any mosquito noise reduction and could macroblock noise reduction be added?

[TheMoose]

While the 972 is on my list I'm hoping I won't have to wait till Aug!
Sony line show is at the end of the month, I'm guessing they will announce 1.3 receivers with more than 4 inputs.

[Bobkbusch]

I received an email from Jeff at Sherwood:

jeff@sherwoodamerica.com

He said they are currently studying whether to add IR capability to the R-972 in addition to the announced RF. They will be making a decision in the next week or so.

Obviously, the receiver would integrate better in many home theaters with IR capability as well as RF. The ability to use one universal remote to control everything is part of what makes my home theater so enjoyable.

Hopefully, Sherwood Newcastle will agree!

[shelly]

So far, the 972 is top of my list to upgrade all a/v in my den.

But I have a question that isn't necessarily about the 972 but all hdmi receivers.

If I have all my sources connected to the 972 via hdmi, and then hdmi from the 972 out to my display, does the 972 have to be turned on to get the picture on the display? Or is there an auto pass through? I'm talking mainly about programs that I would use the tv's speakers--things like the news et al.

Or would I have to keep a second connect from sources (via component or s-video as well as audio) if I wanted to watch run of the mill tv without using my sound system?

Thanks.

Shelly

[Desmo888]

The ability to use one universal remote to control everything is part of what makes my home theater so enjoyable.

I love the (MX500) remote that came with my 965! You may have plenty of peripherals, but the remote can operate 10 devices and is fully programmable.

But I understand, if you have a system that uses an RF remote, you need a RF compliant device.

[QZ1]

The R-871 was updated for HDMI. Jeff, can probably give you more details. Here is a link to a picture.

http://www.sherwood.de/images/products/large/r871back.html

Thanks.

Do you know which version of HDMI?
Where did you get that R-871 photo?
(I see the non-HDMI version on SN USA's site.)

Is there an R-771 version with HDMI?
If so, do have the photo?

I don't see any distinction made in the product name for the HDMI version.
I guess I have to ask the vendor if they can guarantee me the HDMI version.

I don't have an AVR, and I don't think I will wait until HDMI 1.3 SN AVRs is in stock.

[BobL]

Thanks.

Do you know which version of HDMI?
Not sure

Where did you get that R-871 photo?
(I see the non-HDMI version on SN USA's site.)
It is on the Sherwood's European site

Is there an R-771 version with HDMI?
No
If so, do have the photo?

I don't see any distinction made in the product name for the HDMI version.
I guess I have to ask the vendor if they can guarantee me the HDMI version.

I don't have an AVR, and I don't think I will wait until HDMI 1.3 SN AVRs is in stock.

Sherwood announced this at CEDIA. I'd call a Sherwood and make sure it is shipping. I haven't had the chance to install one yet.

Bob

[Bobkbusch]

I love the (MX500) remote that came with my 965! You may have plenty of peripherals, but the remote can operate 10 devices and is fully programmable.

But I understand, if you have a system that uses an RF remote, you need a RF compliant device.

My MX3000 remote does both RF and IR. All my components are out of sight in a cabinet. I use the MX3000 RF to the RF receiver in the cabinet. The RF receiver (MRF-300) then distributes the appropriate IR signal to all the gear.

If a component such as the R-972 is RF only, this won't work. The MX3000 remote's RF signal will assuredly be different than the R-972 and they won't communicate RF to RF. Therefore, unless the R-972 has IR, the only way to communicate with it will be the dedicated R-972 remote. Obviously, this will preclude using complete macros with the MX3000 or any other remote.

After receiving an email from "Jeff" at Sherwood Sales and Marketing stating that they are debating whether to include IR, I received another email from Eugene in Technical Support. He stated the R-972 will include IR. Hopefully, this is correct!

[Johnla]

I think it would be a very big mistake if they do not also include IR control. Because there are a lot of people with aftermarket remotes that they have setup to run a entire system, and that would stay away from it if they could not use their aftermarket remote to operate it.

[Bobkbusch]

I think it would be a very big mistake if they do not also include IR control. Because there are a lot of people with aftermarket remotes that they have setup to run a entire system, and that would stay away from it if they could not use their aftermarket remote to operate it.

I agree. So far the R-972 has the exact specs I'm waiting for. To not include IR would be a show-stopper. I have a PS3 that uses a Bluetooth remote. There is a workaround that allows you to use a USB port with an IR adapter. This allows enough functionality to incorporate the PS3 with my MX3000. Without this, I wouldn't even consider the PS3 for my Blu-Ray player.

[ericlhyman]

I sent Jeff at Sherwood info on the CNET review of the Sony receiver with the Faroudja Cortez that said this chip does not scale SD to HD very well.

[Randy Mathis]

If these receivers offer the "SNAP" equalization I will be quite interested.

I wonder how good "SNAP" is. SN claims 7 bands of equalization per channel which includes the subwoofer channel.

Could this replace my Behringer feedback destroyer? I would love to think so.

I'm guessing that the 972 offers 120amps per channel and the 872 offers 100amps if the models have anything in common with their older brothers and sisters.

I have a dealer 8 miles from my house so I will certainly give these a listen when they are available.

I was first interested in these receivers because of their ability to pass 10 bit video without being a bottleneck. Having a HDMI 1.3 switcher with a quality AVR is a nice thought but the other features make the AVR's quite desirable.

[Dave Moritz]

I have seen the pictures and info on the new Sherwood and while it looks like the features are nice. IMHO Sherwood has allways been a step under a Sony so I am not sure I would buy it to replace my old RX-V995. The Sherwood would have to prove that it has stepped up there performance enough to compete with the likes of Pioneer Elite, Denon, Marantz and Harman Kardon's.

[Gary Murrell]

I have seen the pictures and info on the new Sherwood and while it looks like the features are nice. IMHO Sherwood has allways been a step under a Sony so I am not sure I would buy it to replace my old RX-V995. The Sherwood would have to prove that it has stepped up there performance enough to compete with the likes of Pioneer Elite, Denon, Marantz and Harman Kardon's.

Dave, Sherwood is better than all those brands you have mentioned ;)

-Gary

[Filthy McNasty]

IMHO Sherwood has allways been a step under a Sony so I am not sure I would buy it to replace my old RX-V995.

Next time you are in China, take a visit to one of Sherwood Newcastle's parent company's factories (Etonics).

See if you recognize any of the brands on the assembly lines.

[new27]

Filthy, please elaborate as I won't be journeying to China any time soon:)

Sherwood seems to be somewhat of a mysterious company, are they in fact Chinese owned? What is their history? Which other brands fall under Etonics umbrella? Their website shows they were founded in 1953 in Chicago.

Thanks

[hikinokie]

Dealers are few & far between also.
I'm in Tulsa, not what you'd call a small town & the nearest dealer according to thier web site is over 100 miles away!

Howdy Moose, I'm a Tulsan too. :D

[TheMoose]

Howdy Moose, I'm a Tulsan too. :D
:cool:

[M Code]

Filthy, please elaborate as I won't be journeying to China any time soon:)

Sherwood seems to be somewhat of a mysterious company, are they in fact Chinese owned? What is their history? Which other brands fall under Etonics umbrella? Their website shows they were founded in 1953 in Chicago.

Thanks

Parent company is Korean..
Design/development group in Seoul, Korea.
Production facility is in Shenzen, China..

The original Sherwood Company was USA based and founded in 1953 in Chicago. Sherwood brand & assets was purchased by the original Korean group many years back...

[Randy Mathis]

http://www.etronics.co.kr/english/newcompany/overseas.asp

[BobL]

The Sherwood line is mostly made in China and the Sherwood Newcastle line is mostly made in Korea.

[shunx]

I wished there were more than 1 HDMI outputs. I'm also skeptical of the quality of upconversion.

[QZ1]

The Sherwood line is mostly made in China and the Sherwood Newcastle line is mostly made in Korea.
Which Newcastle AVRs are made in China?

[BobL]

I think all the Newcastle receivers are made in Korea I'm not sure on the digitial and DVD-Receiver.

Bob

[daggerNC]

So far, the 972 is top of my list to upgrade all a/v in my den.

But I have a question that isn't necessarily about the 972 but all hdmi receivers.

If I have all my sources connected to the 972 via hdmi, and then hdmi from the 972 out to my display, does the 972 have to be turned on to get the picture on the display? Or is there an auto pass through? I'm talking mainly about programs that I would use the tv's speakers--things like the news et al.

Or would I have to keep a second connect from sources (via component or s-video as well as audio) if I wanted to watch run of the mill tv without using my sound system?

Thanks.

Shelly

HDMI requires an active interface (HDCP handshaking, etc) and thus no passive pass thru is possible. Reciever will need to be on to send out HDMI signal. Many of the new HDTV's with HDMI inputs will support audio via the HDMI interface - check with your source component (my DVD player sends audio out over HDMI but my HD cable box only sends video) and your display device.

[shelly]

HDMI requires an active interface (HDCP handshaking, etc) and thus no passive pass thru is possible. Reciever will need to be on to send out HDMI signal. Many of the new HDTV's with HDMI inputs will support audio via the HDMI interface - check with your source component (my DVD player sends audio out over HDMI but my HD cable box only sends video) and your display device.

Thanks for clearing up the possibility of passive pass though from receiver with hdmi.

I guess that my cable dvr will have direct connection to the tv with separate digital audio connection to receiver. No problem to use hdmi from hd dvd player into receiver back to tv.

Shelly

[new27]

thanks M Code, do you know what other AV receiver brands are manufactured by them?

[onthejazz]

Sherwood Newcastle showed off two new receivers at CES, the R-872 and R-972. Both should be available in August and will include HDMI 1.3 inputs with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD processing, the major differences are listed below:

R-872
- Text on screen display
- 4 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $999

R-972
- GUI on screen display
- 6 HDMI 1.3 inputs
- MSRP $1499

In my humble opinion, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, etc. are going to really have to come out with something special to get anywhere close to these kind of features at this low of a price point.

Links
From CNET:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9676526-5.html?tag=blog

From Audioholics:
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESprocessors/SherwoodR972.php

The picture in the link from Audioholics, shows the R-972 receiver, but it only shows 4 HDMI inputs on the back of the receiver. Could the other two be on the front panel? Or could this be a misprint? The current R-871 only has 2 HDMI inputs, that would be a huge leap for the next generation receiver (R-971) to bump up to 4 HDMI's. Anyone know where the specs came from (for 4/6 HDMI inputs) or any more info on this?

[notlad]

The review I read said that the prototype displayed that you saw the pic of only had 4 HDMI inputs but that the production models would have six. That is for the R972. The R872 will only have four.

I have read two conflicting reports regarding the $999 R872 model. One said that the only differences were the number of HDMI inputs, the onscreen interface, and a few other things. The second report said that the R872's HDMI was pass through only and did not decode True HD audio, etc.

[BassTek]

It would be a huge mistake if the made the 872 pass-through only. What good are 4 HDMI ports if none of them decode audio? Maybe it's similar to the Marantz models where they say pass-through/repeating on the website but actually decode audio in real life.

[Stereojeff]

The R-872 will definitely decode the native streams of Dolby Tru-HD and DTS Master Audio HD.

Jeff

[bokes]

Anyone know the aprox. street date?

[Stereojeff]

Production for the R-872 is scheduled for September, 2007.

Jeff

[Desmo888]

Jeff,

Is this true of the separates as well? Also, when is the press release scheduled?

[aus]

Are Separates part of the plan?
Wonder if they'll cost more or less.

[Stereojeff]

There is no final decision on a pre/pro at this time. We will offer one, just not sure which feature set will be supported.

Jeff

[Southern Spy]

We will offer one, just not sure which feature set will be supported

As long as the sound quality (especially in 2 ch) is not compromised from the P965 by the addition of all the extra video circuitry, you should have a winner.

[eawil]

would REALLY love that since my HDTV only takes 1080P over HDMI and my XBOX 360 only outputs 1080P over component (at least until they release an updated HDMI version).

Slightly Off-Topic:
Just so you know the Xbox 360 outputs 1080P over VGA as well, and if you have a DVI / VGA input on your TV you can get 1080P directly from the 360. With the VGA adaptor, my 360 is the best DVD player I've ever had.

[aus]

There is no final decision on a pre/pro at this time. We will offer one, just not sure which feature set will be supported.

Jeff

Sherwood is in SoCal? How about adding a Silicon Optix chip in the the Pre/Pro???

[FreddyW]

There is no final decision on a pre/pro at this time. We will offer one, just not sure which feature set will be supported.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Probably a dumb question, but what do you mean by "feature set?" If you mean 8x features vs. 9x features, my vote is for 9x, as most folks who go the separate route want the "cadilliac" version vs. the "chevy."

Not that there's anything wrong with Chevy, but you get my drift :)

One more thing- if a "Decision has not been made," would that mean if the new units are available this fall, that the pre/pro would not be available for another year or so?

[Stereojeff]

Freddy:

Then where do we put the R-10xx? Maybe that should be the prepro?

Jeff

[FreddyW]

Freddy:

Then where do we put the R-10xx? Maybe that should be the prepro?

Jeff

Sure, I would. I mean, how many models do you really need to carry? Sherwood Newcastle, in my mind, is a boutique manufacturer (at least in this product line). I think of it as an "insiders" brand, in that it appeals to knowledgable A/V consumers who want great price/performance level, plus the added panache of having a "non-mainstream" brand in their stack of gear.

I always felt that it was a bit confusing to have, for example, an R-965 and a P-965. This is because the main difference is pretty much just that was that one was a pre/pro and need amplifiers, and one wasn't (even though I assume you could use it as such). And yet the numbers are exactly the same (i.e.- 965).

Having 3 distinct model numbers, along with the distinct prefixes, makes more sense (to me, at least).

I don't know exactly what your business model is- high-end stores, internet sales, custom installs, whatever. But it seems to me that having more than 3 products in that family would tend to cannibalize your own business, let alone make it more confusing for the consumer or installer (and expensive from a manufacturing/marketing/sales point) in an already-crowded marketplace.

Three products would give you

R-8x: The sub $1000 (or $1200 or wherever you ned to be) unit for smaller installations or setups (for lack of a better descriptive term). I hesitate to use the term "entry-level," because I always felt that was akin to saying "Economy model," and I'm not sure that term applies to your niche marketplace.

R-9x- The "high-end" integrated AVR, with additional features/power over the R-8x unit. I would imagine this is your meat-n-potatos model, the one that will sell the most. Maybe the R-9x is the upgradable unit, while the R-8x is the "fire and forget" unit without that functionality.

P-10x The "premium" pre/pro, and marketed as such. It would have the features of the R-9x, but perhaps an "additional bonus" feature or two to go along with the pre/pro functionality for added value. CERTAINLY upgradeable. Has to be at this level. Perhaps the bonus features is doing away with DCDI and going to a different video processing chipset (Silicon Optrix chipset or whatever?) is what you need to command the premium. Save $$$ by removing the internal amps, and then add it back in with the Realta (sp?) chips. THAT would make the pre/pro REALLY attractive, if the internet murmurs are to be believed.

I don't what is practical for SN as far as going to market. Again, price/performance with the pedigree of an "exclusive" brand is where I see (and this is just my own opinion) the Sherwood Newcastle line. You have to be careful in your pricing models that you down fall off that slope, up OR down.

What IS going to appeal to your customer base, in your niche, is the ability to output TWO HDMI signals, and accept at least 4 or 5 HDMI signals. If it came to a cost issue, then DUMP the composite video inputs. NO ONE, especially your customer base, uses them. You could probably make an argument for dropping S-video as well. HDMI 1.3 (whether it meets the hype or not) and component-to-HDMI 1080p upconverting/switching is where your market is at, big time. Maybe the R-9x and P-10x have the TWO outputs, and the R-8x has ONE HDMI output. But either way, multiple HDMI inputs is one thing, but having TWO outputs will make you stand out in the crowd, bigtime.

As an aside, I'd be willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that the trade publications/review mags/sites would give you mad props for having the guts to dump those composite inputs. There's always grumbling about that, "give us MORE digital and less crappy analog!"

[Filthy McNasty]

I don't what the market size is for people with similar wants as me.

I made the decision years ago to buy good quality amps. Unfortunately, I don't have the space for separate audio and H.T. setups.

I know that I would be quite satisfied with the prepro offerings from Anthem or Arcam for instance. But I can't afford or want to spend the $$ required.

What I would like is a prepro in the $1.5 to $2k range that does an excellent job with 2 channel audio and an adequate job with H.T. (ie has inputs/switching for most of the A/V toys - but does not downgrade 2 channel performance)

[dazbug]

What IS going to appeal to your customer base, in your niche, is the ability to output TWO HDMI signals, and accept at least 4 or 5 HDMI signals. If it came to a cost issue, then DUMP the composite video inputs. NO ONE, especially your customer base, uses them. You could probably make an argument for dropping S-video as well. HDMI 1.3 (whether it meets the hype or not) and component-to-HDMI 1080p upconverting/switching is where your market is at, big time. Maybe the R-9x and P-10x have the TWO outputs, and the R-8x has ONE HDMI output. But either way, multiple HDMI inputs is one thing, but having TWO outputs will make you stand out in the crowd, bigtime.


100% agree. why onearth do they still put composite on there, there heaps of them and no one uses them. Get rid of them, and just go component and hdmi.

[John McCutcheon]

Freddy, you've really nailed it in IMO. :)
Jeff, S-N ought to hire this guy and put him in charge of marketing ;)
Oops, I forgot, that's your position. :o

[Desmo888]

Then where do we put the R-10xx? Maybe that should be the prepro?

If the next generation product is in "contemplation" at this point in time, then it should be a Pre/Pro that is more focused than the receiver line.

On the A/V side:

I agree that composite is a fading technology; however, while I do use the monitor out on my 965, I do not use any composite in signal paths. Quite possibly a single composite path would be advisable, but more than that would be unnecessary.

The need for scaling is becoming more pervasive. The ability to match input resolutions and timings to display devices is more important now than ever. The 10 series S/N should be able to provide some amount of flexibility in this regard. Even if there were fixed output signal paths i.e. Video 1 = 1080p 60/72Hz, Video 2 = 720p 60/72Hz or some amalgamation thereof.

Signal processing is a plus as well. This would definitely be an advantage in the 10 series product. Products like the "Mosquito" and "Crystallio II" have made a big impact in the HT market. So much that customers who use these products will not build future systems without these components.

On the Audio side:

Surround processing is very important. The ability to decode multi-formats is a differentiating characteristic. Even "vintage" surround decodes are still important to the market place. SQ, Circle Surround, Ambisonics, QS have a big following today with media readily traded. The club/hall/stadium are interesting, but without any control over the delay/reverb are just "the component" of surround

Modern Formats are just as important. On-board (of the PRE/PRO) decoding of the HD formats is a hot topic on this site. While Dolby mandates on-board decoding of TrueHD on the HD players (Toshiba), the ability to take raw data from the source via HDMI, process it in the PRE/PRO and pass video to a display is a desirable feature.

Post processing of analog signals is desirable as well, even if it is rudimentary such as active cross over, bass management, or DD/DTS matrixing of a rear surround (5.1 to 6 or 7.1).

Finally, 7.1 balanced outputs would be nice.

[Livin]

Jeff,
This is just my opinion but I as a business consultant by trade I analyze businesses needs for "sweet spots", gaps, pain points, and do redesign for efficiencies. I have been into Hone Theatre and Home Automation for many years and have seen a few trends due to consumer wants/needs so here's my $0.02...

Many consumers that want a nice Pre/Pro without spending $3k+ but do not need luxury. Today (and for the foreseeable future), consumers can get a nice Receiver for $1000-$1500 that will make a nice Pre/Pro. So what needs to happen if you want to corner the market for Pre/Pros in the non-luxury category, you ask? ;)

Current Consumers Wants/Needs...

Home Automation / Home Theatre Integration
- full web control of configuration (Yamaha has this today)
- full web control of usage (volume, etc... basically a web based remote control)
- Streaming Audio/Video from PC & other devices
- MP3, WMA, WMV, XVID, etc
(please use software decoding so this can be updated as needed)
- uPnP support
- Flash memory card reader (SD, SDHC, memory stick, compact flash, etc)
(for photos, music, videos, etc)
- USB port
(for photos, music, videos, etc)
- Z-wave and X10 compatibility and control of devices
- Bluetooth 2.0 compatibility (think cell phone convo on your stereo!)

Multi-Zone Audio
- assignable amplification (not relevant in Pre/Pro)
- 3 or more Zones

Surround formats & Audio Controls
- All the current movie and audio formats
- most people do not care about: stadium, hall, studio, etc...
- Audyssey MultEQ XT with direct access controls (see how Yama does it)
- full bass mgmt

Radio Tuner
- standard stuff
- HD tuner built-in
- ability to add external XM & Sirius tuner
(never know what will happen with the merger so leave it open)

Video
- 1080p passthough for Component & HDMI
- 1080p upconversion using better chip then what is available in HDTV sets.
(otherwise you might was well just forgo it and use the TV's conversion)
- 4+ HDMI inputs
- VGA input, conversion to HDMI
(luxury item, yes. But helps those connecting HTPCs or XBOX360s - plus makes you stand out in the crowd for pre/pros!)
- HDMI 1.3 Deepcolor and all resolutions

IR repeater
- for those with home automation or house-wide controls

Legacy Items no longer necessary
- massive #s of S-Video, composite, and analog audio inputs
- add a few of each and save the space and $
- allows space for add-on cards ;)


This may seem like a lot of items and I realize some may be more in demand then others but I point you to equip like TVs with built-in USB/memory card readers and such. Convergence is happening and fast... don't just ride the wave, make it bigger!

If you can deliver everything above for under $1500 you will own the market. If you need to cut some features and do $1000 you will still own the market.

I use those price points since, as I mentioned earlier, For $1000 you can get a nice receiver/pre/pro... for $1500 you can get a superb receiver/pre/pro. Anyr more then that and people start to look at the high-end pre/pro units and those people care more about 2-channel audio. But those are not the mass, don't target them.... target the growning home theater and home automation market.

good luck... hope you beat someone else to the punch!

[Dave Moritz]

I honestly do not see Sherwood as being better than Denon, Yamaha, Marantz or Pioneer Elite. Sherwood may have gone from being no better than Sanyo years ago to up there with Sony. But then again Sony receivers IMHO are nothing to brag about ether. I actually might place Sherwood in the same category as Sony now a days.

I am currently using a Yamaha RX-V995 that has no component or hdmi switching. It is your basic 5.1 DD/DTS decoding surround receiver with good quality surround modes and good quality internal amplifiers. I have driven this Yamaha hard while running 4 15" woofers in my Altec A-7's, center channel and 2 pair of rear channel speakers without clipping.

My goal is to not only bring my home theater into the high definition arena. But to upgrade the components to better than the level of components than what I have right now. I do not see the Sherwood as being good enough for what I am looking for.

Current HT System:
Yamaha RX-V995 Surround Sound Receiver
Sony DVP-S9000 ES DVD/SACD Player
Denon DVD-2200 DVD/DVD-A/SACD Player
Marantz LV-520 Laserdisc Player
Denon DTR-2000 DAT Recorder
Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Player
Sony KDF-E50A10 50" HDTV
JVC QL-50 Turntable
Altec Lancing Voice Of The Theater A-7's
Klipsch RC-64 Center Channel
Klipsch RB-81 Rear Speakers

Upgrade Plans:
1. Blu-ray Player.
2. Reciever with HDMI 1.3, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding. Currently looking at Denon, Marantz and Pioneer Elite. If I can come up with more cash and Adcom offers a new HDMI 1.3 model then I might go with Adcom.
3. Sony KDS-R70XBR2 70" SXRD HDTV or if I move into a bigger place a Sony VPL-VW50 1080p SXRD Projector.
3a If I move into a bigger place Stewart Film Screen Firehawk 120" screen.
4. 3 channel Power Amp.
5. Monster Power Center.
6. New Equipment Rack.
7. Possible upgrade of HD-A1 to a higher end HD-DVD player if format ether last long enough or wins the format war.
8. Build seperate two channel system.

[John McCutcheon]

I do not see the Sherwood as being good enough for what I am looking for.
Then you probably shouldn't waste your time following this thread.

I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi. I won't bother listing the rest of my components, but I would definitely consider "upgrading" to Sherwood-Newcastle. If they actually made a P-1072 processor with the features Freddy mentioned above, I'd be all over it.

Of course, they'd need to get it to market in a reasonable timeframe, which hasn't been a strong point for them historically.

[Southern Spy]

Then you probably shouldn't waste your time following this thread.



Nor any threads with Arcam/NAD/B&K/Rotel/Cambridge/Rotel/Naim in the titles either

[muscones]

If these receivers offer the "SNAP" equalization I will be quite interested.

I wonder how good "SNAP" is. SN claims 7 bands of equalization per channel which includes the subwoofer channel.

Could this replace my Behringer feedback destroyer? I would love to think so.

I'm guessing that the 972 offers 120amps per channel and the 872 offers 100amps if the models have anything in common with their older brothers and sisters.

I have a dealer 8 miles from my house so I will certainly give these a listen when they are available.

I was first interested in these receivers because of their ability to pass 10 bit video without being a bottleneck. Having a HDMI 1.3 switcher with a quality AVR is a nice thought but the other features make the AVR's quite desirable.

Your Behringer feedback destroyer does soooooo muuuuuuch more than any 7 band eq ever could, or any non parametric eq no matter how many bands, it would be disastrous to take the behringer out of the circuit, as you would soon realise, but if you are selling it, let me know.

Muscones

[JU1CYFRU1T]

I think that Freddy hit the nail on the head. I just bought a component cable for my Wii... making me 100% composite cable free.

Do I think that it would be a good idea for SN to get rid of 'all' the composite connectors?... No, but people in the market that you are selling to DEFINITELY don't need 6 connections of composite/ S-video...

Look at what we are talking about: HD cable box (component or better) SD DVD player (usually component or better... VERY rare to find a composite only unit anymore) HD media player (HD DVD or Blu-ray... both of which are component/ HDMI) Gaming system (360 & PS3 are both component or higher... and Wii even has a component cable available now). Someone who is going to be paying ~$1-2K for a receiver is not the kind of person who is still watching TV on a 32" SD CRT TV...

I am looking longingly at the R-972... waiting to see if anyone can even come close to the price: feature ratio. I don't really care about the HDMI 1.3 (except that I won't have to worry if my player can decode the audio signal being sent... if I get a PS3, I don't have to wait for a firmware update to play DTS MA from Fox titles).

The one request that I know we all will have is... make sure that these two receivers (the 872 & 972) are level 6 receiver. (see sticky about 'future proof receivers')

[DonoMan]

I agree, don't bother with so many composite/s-video inputs. Maybe a couple of each. Maybe 2-3 stereo analog inputs plus a multichannel input. As for video, what would be good for me:

-2 composite
-2 s-video
-4 component
-4 HDMI
-Any more inputs added to component and/or HDMI - I'm not against 5-6 of each of those!

I like older video game systems so I don't really want to completely do away with composite, but I certainly don't need more than 2.

Also, I want all inputs to be assignable in any combination, so I'm not locked to optical S/PDIF in with DVD because I can't assign a coaxial input there instead, etc. And I'd like support for custom custom naming so I can name one input PS2, another Xbox, another PC... Whatever. And since I like older video game systems, just adding presets for those isn't enough for me unless you want to add SNES and SegaCD and stuff as well.

[FreddyW]

I agree, don't bother with so many composite/s-video inputs. Maybe a couple of each. Maybe 2-3 stereo analog inputs plus a multichannel input. As for video, what would be good for me:

-2 composite
-2 s-video
-4 component
-4 HDMI
-Any more inputs added to component and/or HDMI - I'm not against 5-6 of each of those!

I like older video game systems so I don't really want to completely do away with composite, but I certainly don't need more than 2.

Also, I want all inputs to be assignable in any combination, so I'm not locked to optical S/PDIF in with DVD because I can't assign a coaxial input there instead, etc. And I'd like support for custom custom naming so I can name one input PS2, another Xbox, another PC... Whatever. And since I like older video game systems, just adding presets for those isn't enough for me unless you want to add SNES and SegaCD and stuff as well.

? You can assign which digital input to use with which component already. And you can name the inputs.

Think you're in in a (very) small minority with the old videogames, though.....:)

[DonoMan]

I've never owned anything from this company so I wasn't sure if it was already possible, so I just made sure to mention it. I am very interested in these products... I would also agree with people above in preferring a Reon over Faroudja, though. But that's not a dealbreaker for me.

[Southern Spy]

I have heard and seen it posted by various people associated with SN that a R865 is a P965 with free amps.

If that is true I can't see it being beneficial to launch a P972 if it is just a R872/972 without amps.

That being said, SN has to define their place in the marketplace. Are they going to be a "Better value than Denon/Marantz" company or a true alternative to Anthem and higher offerings from NAD/Rotel/Parasound etc?

[RAVEN56706]

i want this receiver already..... tired of this crap

[wingnut4772]

I too am a little leery of the Faroudja but I have had experience with SN having owned a P-965 and I am very interested in this. I have not been able to find if it will have pre outs...?

[Desmo888]

I too have my doubts over the Faroudja chip. It appears that the technology is already being replaced in the market with better hardware.

Have there been any updates about the new Sherwood Products?

Also, will I be able to use the internal amp and my standalone A965 with the new equipment? I have always wanted a reason to get two more sets of Bi-Amp speakers.

Inquiring minds want to know!

[FreddyW]

I too have my doubts over the Faroudja chip. It appears that the technology is already being replaced in the market with better hardware.

Have there been any updates about the new Sherwood Products?

Also, will I be able to use the internal amp and my standalone A965 with the new equipment? I have always wanted a reason to get two more sets of Bi-Amp speakers.

Inquiring minds want to know!

I'd be curious to see some hard data, as opposed to subjective data, on the Faroudja vs. the Realta chipsets. Are there any tests, or is it just based on speculation on chip performance claims?

[Digitally challe]

I'd be curious to see some hard data, as opposed to subjective data, on the Faroudja vs. the Realta chipsets. Are there any tests, or is it just based on speculation on chip performance claims?
That is an excellent question.

[DonoMan]

I'd be curious to see some hard data, as opposed to subjective data, on the Faroudja vs. the Realta chipsets. Are there any tests, or is it just based on speculation on chip performance claims?

Then try searching for it, because it's been discussed before.

[Stereojeff]

To my knowledge there is no comparison anywhere with the Genesis/Faroudja "Torino" scaler-deinterlacer we'll be using in the R-972 and any other solutions. There are probably comparisons involving the Genesis/Faroudja FL-2301 solution that we'll be using in the R-872. But the 2301 is fully capable of 1080p output and has been used quite successfully in many high end DVD players. There have been banding issues with this chip when used with some displays, but these are well known and should be solved in our AVR.

Jeff

[wingnut4772]

To my knowledge there is no comparison anywhere with the Genesis/Faroudja "Torino" scaler-deinterlacer we'll be using in the R-972 and any other solutions. There are probably comparisons involving the Genesis/Faroudja FL-2301 solution that we'll be using in the R-872. But the 2301 is fully capable of 1080p output and has been used quite successfully in many high end DVD players. There have been banding issues with this chip when used with some displays, but these are well known and should be solved in our AVR.

Jeff

Would those be DLP displays? That's the problem I have had previously with Faroudja but it was macroblocking on a DLP. That's why the 'F' word makes me skittish. ..I am still getting it though :D

[FreddyW]

Then try searching for it, because it's been discussed before.

Perhaps you could point out a link, then, since you seem to know where? AVS doesn't have the most robust search engine. However, if it's just subjective opinions, though, I don't really care. As I stated, I was curious to see if there are some test results on a professional vs. hobbyist level.

[DonoMan]

Here's but one of several: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?articles=all&deInt=0&function=search&manufacturer=0&mpeg=ESS&type=

(The Denon DVD-5910 has Realta HQV, so much of the discussion about Realta will be in relation to that product)

[energizerfellow]

The more I think about it, the more I think "less is more" in this market for differentiation. Something that sits in the living room of the non-luxury market, out where it will be seen, isn't some huge monstrosity, and, frankly, things like multi-zone just aren't needed. Somebody needs to pull an Apple/Nintendo and go very technically advanced, very simple (with advanced options semi-hidden) and just eliminate that small percentage of outlying legacy users with an eye to the future.

For SD video, with modern driver chips, there arguably isn't any difference with S-video and composite and those few left using it are for VHS and legacy video games with, maybe, a handful of LD here or there. Plus, technically, it's pretty simple to have a component input driver automagically recognize a composite signal on one of the component inputs. I've already seen a handful of devices going this route.

Some general suggestions on a modern A/V preamp:
- Drop multi-zone
- Drop S-video
- Drop 6-ch analog input
- Drop VGA
- Drop front panel inputs
- 3-4x component inputs w/ composite support & analog stereo
- 4-5x HDMI inputs
- 4x S/PDIF combination optical/coax
- 1x stereo analog audio input
- 1x component output @ 1080p
- 1x HDMI output @ 1080p
- Scaling/transcoding/interlacing w/ Silicon Optix chipset
- DTS-HD & TrueHD
- Deep Color
- Tuner with RDS & HD support, plus external Sirius/XM
- 3.5x16 form factor (both pre/amp)

For the amp, fairly modest power would be sufficient, say 70-100W/ch. While your typical Class-A/AB would be fine, having another contender in the Class-D/T market would be interesting.

USB support for external storage and various media files is just too much in flux these days and with economical chipsets for compressed HD video formats still being a ways out. Just skip the area entirely for a few years and leave the fighting to the stand-alone media players.

Something like an updated Panasonic SA-XR700 with the above features would absolutely clean up in the marketplace. Sure the Panasonic hasn't sold well so far, but it's almost like Panasonic is trying to not sell them.

[dsmith901]

Jeff,

As one who has used AV receivers as a pre/pro for several years there is one feature I would like to see in a next gen receiver (assuming a separate pre/pro does not emerge) and that is the ability for the user to completely turn off (de-power) the internal power amps and just use the preouts. This would not only reduce EMI noise within the chasse it would shut down any noise cooling fans and yet allow the unit to run cooler (not to mention save on electricity and help fight global warming! LOL!).

[Livin]

Jeff,

As one who has used AV receivers as a pre/pro for several years there is one feature I would like to see in a next gen receiver (assuming a separate pre/pro does not emerge) and that is the ability for the user to completely turn off (de-power) the internal power amps and just use the preouts. This would not only reduce EMI noise within the chasse it would shut down any noise cooling fans and yet allow the unit to run cooler (not to mention save on electricity and help fight global warming! LOL!).

EXACTLY!

[DonoMan]

Not using an amp makes it already not use much power anyway. Not that being able to turn them off is a bad idea, but it won't make a huge difference.

[QuadESL63]

There is no final decision on a pre/pro at this time. We will offer one, just not sure which feature set will be supported.

Jeff

Any update on the plan of this pre/pro unit? TIA!

[Desmo888]

Any update on the plan of this pre/pro unit? TIA!

Good question!


Is any marketing literature available?

[Digitally challe]

To my knowledge there is no comparison anywhere with the Genesis/Faroudja "Torino" scaler-deinterlacer we'll be using in the R-972 and any other solutions. There are probably comparisons involving the Genesis/Faroudja FL-2301 solution that we'll be using in the R-872. But the 2301 is fully capable of 1080p output and has been used quite successfully in many high end DVD players. There have been banding issues with this chip when used with some displays, but these are well known and should be solved in our AVR.

Jeff
I was wondering since the R-972 and R-872 receivers are going to be Sherwood's premium models, will they be using using a premium VP chipset such as the Silicon Optics Realta or Reon? It would be a shame to sell such a premium receiver and not have a VP chipset that is equally outstanding. From the specs that Iread on these models I will more than likely purchase the R-972, but I would like to know which VP chipset it will be using. Any info you can give on this particular matter would be greatly appreciated. -Bill

[calv1n]

Jeff,

I had picked up the R-771 and the R-965 along with the HSB-600 as I was told HDMI was a moving target and SN didn't want to have the receivers "outdated" due to this variable. I'm curious with the new receivers coming out supporting 1.3 will SN be making a newer updated model of the HSB-600 for those of us with the "older" receivers with no built in 1.3 support (even though mine have just been pulled out of the box and never even turned on they are outdated already... technology is wonderful till you buy it).
I'm hoping to just have to replace the HSB-600 as was my understanding when I bought it that this piece would be regularly updated to keep the HDMI standard current with the SN receivers I purchased. Will there be a HSB-XXX to support the new standard released and if so will SN have some sort of upgrade program ?
Just curious.

Thanks
Calvin

[ericlhyman]

To my knowledge there is no comparison anywhere with the Genesis/Faroudja "Torino" scaler-deinterlacer we'll be using in the R-972 and any other solutions. There are probably comparisons involving the Genesis/Faroudja FL-2301 solution that we'll be using in the R-872. But the 2301 is fully capable of 1080p output and has been used quite successfully in many high end DVD players. There have been banding issues with this chip when used with some displays, but these are well known and should be solved in our AVR.

Jeff

Does the Torino provide mosquito noise and bar noise reduction?

[dc_pilgrim]

Maybe -

Genesis Microchip Announces ``Torino'', Next Generation Cortez Advanced 1080p and 120Hz WXGA TV Controller
FLI30436's Next Generation Video Processing Accurately Reproduces Video Images by Eliminating Noise, Reducing Motion Blur and Offering Sophisticated 3D Color Management Technology

SAN JOSE, Calif. & LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 10, 2007--Genesis(R) Microchip Inc. (Nasdaq: GNSS), a world leader in the development of image processing technologies for flat-panel TVs, monitors, and other consumer electronic products, today announced the launch of its next generation Cortez TV controller, the FLI30436 (Torino). This solution is being demonstrated at the 2007 International Consumer Electronics Show and is now shipping to Tier 1 OEM customers.

Genesis Microchip's Torino IC is the latest generation of the Cortez family of controllers. In addition to leveraging the features of the Cortez Advanced platform, Torino combines unique analog and digital processing to drastically reduce the noise which is inherent in all video without sacrificing image quality and sharpness. The FLI30436 also offers next generation ACM 3D color management technology to provide TV manufacturers with the ability to manipulate images for accurate color reproduction. This industry leading set of advanced color processing techniques offers OEMs the flexibility to precisely control color settings for product differentiation. In addition, the Torino IC offers an improved video decoder and VBI slicer as well as high resolution 1080p and WUXGA (1920 x 1200) panel support, high frame rate panel support up WXGA 120Hz, true 10-bit plus video processing and dual 3D video decoders.

"The new Torino solution offers consumer electronics manufacturers the most robust set of Faroudja DCDi Cinema(R) video processing technologies available for such a wide variety of platforms, including flat-panel TVs, Multi-Function Monitors, AVRs/PVRs and blue laser DVD players and recorders," said Neil Mitchell, vice president of marketing, TV Business for Genesis Microchip. "Large screen flat-panel displays especially benefit from Torino's processing that delivers stunning, vivid images while reducing motion blur on LCD panels for a fully immersive home entertainment experience."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9900426&&#post9900426

[ericlhyman]

Does the 972 include a toroidal transformer, like the Onkyo 905? How important is this feature?

[Raistlin_HT]

In addition, the Torino IC offers an improved video decoder and VBI slicer as well as high resolution 1080p and WUXGA (1920 x 1200) panel support, high frame rate panel support up WXGA 120Hz, true 10-bit plus video processing and dual 3D video decoders.

Any chance this processor will be able to convert film 3:2 cadences to 5:5?


From what I've read, it appears most 120Hz TV's processor's are simply doing 6:4 cadences ... basically defeating half the purpose of 120Hz displays ... ie. judder-free movies.


Considering few HD players output 1080p24 ... and no DVD players do to my knowledge ... it would be nice if there were some processors that do this.

[Dave Moritz]

Its nice to see that the new model recievers are being anounced and that we are seeing more and more brands making anouncments. But for me I do not see myself with a Onkyo or Sherwood to be honest, at this point its ether a Denon or Pioneer.

Onkyo
TX-SR605 MSRP $499
TX-SR705 MSRP $799
TX-SR805 MSRP $999
TX-SR875 MSRP $1599
TX-NR905 MSRP $1999

Sherwood Newcastle
R-872 MSRP $1000
R-972 MSRP $1500

Pioneer Elite
VSX-91TXH MSRP $1000
VSX-92TXH MSRP $1300
VSX-94TXH MSRP $1600

Web Article on Pioneer models: http://crunchgear.com/2007/05/09/pioneer-announces-four-elite-av-receivers/

Denon
AVR-1508 MSRP $?
AVR-1708 MSRP $?
AVR-2808 MSRP $?
AVR-3808ci MSRP $1,599
AVR-4308ci MSRP $2,499

[jdskycaster]

Jeff,

As one who has used AV receivers as a pre/pro for several years there is one feature I would like to see in a next gen receiver (assuming a separate pre/pro does not emerge) and that is the ability for the user to completely turn off (de-power) the internal power amps and just use the preouts. This would not only reduce EMI noise within the chasse it would shut down any noise cooling fans and yet allow the unit to run cooler (not to mention save on electricity and help fight global warming! LOL!).


SN should just manufacture the new R-972 receiver with a scaled down power supply and amp stages removed. Call it the R/PRO and sell it at a $999 price point. Keep all the other features the same:)

I would trade up to that one in a millisecond!


JD

[Gary Murrell]

SN should just manufacture the new R-972 receiver with a scaled down power supply and amp stages removed. Call it the R/PRO and sell it at a $999 price point. Keep all the other features the same:)

I would trade up to that one in a millisecond!


JD

I think it is safe to say that Sherwood will have a pre-pro in this line and if so it would be safe to say it will be in my HT :p

-Gary

[DonoMan]

Does the 972 include a toroidal transformer, like the Onkyo 905? How important is this feature?

Not important at all. Not even a tiiiiny little bit. It's a stupid marketing ploy and I'm not sure how it's fooled even a single person.

[Gary Murrell]

Not important at all. Not even a tiiiiny little bit. It's a stupid marketing ploy and I'm not sure how it's fooled even a single person.

ah not really, it is very important, the transformer will isolate the power from the rest of your home, giving you much better power quality, removing noise, loops, hum and other issues

thats why the best power conditioners that aren't snake oil use toroidal transformers ;)

now if we are talking comparing EI Core vs Toroidals then that is a different story, something shouldn't have a high-end appeal or price just because of a Toroidal over a core transformer, if this is what you are speaking of Dan

-Gary

[peakjunkie]

Sorry if these have already been answered but I can't find these specs on Sherwood while Pioneer, Denon and Onkyo have all inidicated which, if any, of their models will be having these features.

Ethernet especially.

Any know on Sherwood? I'm digging my 871's and would love to stick with the brand.

[QuadESL63]

Sorry if these have already been answered but I can't find these specs on Sherwood while Pioneer, Denon and Onkyo have all inidicated which, if any, of their models will be having these features.

Ethernet especially.

Any know on Sherwood? I'm digging my 871's and would love to stick with the brand.

I'd like to know the details as well... esp. the rumored pre-pro ;)

[DonoMan]

Gary, are you comparing linear power supplies to switch-mode power supplies? A regulated linear power supply can have tighter regulation and less ripple than a SMPS, but a properly designed SMPS will simply not be distinguishable to the human ear. Also, depending on how tightly regulated the linear power supply is, it can be somewhat inefficient by wasting power in the regulators...

Properly designed, linear power supplies vs switch-mode power supplies is a moot point. There's a good reason why computer equipment uses switch-mode power supplies, and no, it's nowhere near limited to size/weight savings.

[Drew_N]

Hi Jeff - are you able to update us on any details about these receivers? Perhaps...

What was the outcome of the RF/IR remote decision?
I believe I read TI DAC's being used. Which ones and how many?
Will it be firmware upgradeable? (since it will be one of the 1st premium 1.3 units on the market)
Will the HDMI signal be able to pass-through untouched?
Are there still 6 HDMI's on the 972 (call it paranoia :) )?


Just out of curiosity, are finding it challenging to test DTS-MA compatibility with such limited availability in the marketplace?

Thanks. Really looking forward to this receiver.

[Stereojeff]

Drew:

Remote's for the R-972, R-872 and R-772 will be RF plus IR. In addition, circuitry will be added inside the receiver to convert RF input to IR output for use with emitters/blasters to control additional components and still allow RF from the remote.

We have not discussed DAC's. The R-972 will use AKM's 5381 for audio A to D and Cirrus 4832 for D to A.

Firmware will be upgradeable via RS-232 or via USB. USB input was added for this purpose as many laptops no longer support serial connections.

As far as I can determine, HDMI can be sent untouched.

Sorry to report that the R-972 will have four HDMI inputs and not the six that I had hoped for.

Also, the R-972 will use the Trinnov Optimizer for Room EQ. This incredible technology measures the soundfield in 3D, uses advanced FIR and IIR digital filters to flatten the response of all channels including the sub and can change the acoustic position of the speakers to bring them to the ITU standard for surround music. David Rich has an extensive review of Trinnov's professional EQ in a recent issue of TSS.

There are challenges in the lossless test signals. They can be overcome.

Jeff

[FreddyW]

Drew:

Remote's for the R-972, R-872 and R-772 will be RF plus IR. In addition, circuitry will be added inside the receiver to convert RF input to IR output for use with emitters/blasters to control additional components and still allow RF from the remote.

We have not discussed DAC's. The R-972 will use AKM's 5381 for audio A to D and Cirrus 4832 for D to A.

Firmware will be upgradeable via RS-232 or via USB. USB input was added for this purpose as many laptops no longer support serial connections.

As far as I can determine, HDMI can be sent untouched.

Sorry to report that the R-972 will have four HDMI inputs and not the six that I had hoped for.

Also, the R-972 will use the Trinnov Optimizer for Room EQ. This incredible technology measures the soundfield in 3D, uses advanced FIR and IIR digital filters to flatten the response of all channels including the sub and can change the acoustic position of the speakers to bring them to the ITU standard for surround music. David Rich has an extensive review of Trinnov's professional EQ in a recent issue of TSS.

There are challenges in the lossless test signals. They can be overcome.

Jeff

Jeff, any plans for a pre/pro unit? Actually, this is becoming less of an issue for me because I'm tired of the heat being generated by the amps....if anyone wants to buy a couple very nice Parasound amps, let me know.....;)

[FreddyW]

Drew:


Also, the R-972 will use the Trinnov Optimizer for Room EQ. This incredible technology measures the soundfield in 3D, uses advanced FIR and IIR digital filters to flatten the response of all channels including the sub and can change the acoustic position of the speakers to bring them to the ITU standard for surround music. David Rich has an extensive review of Trinnov's professional EQ in a recent issue of TSS.


Jeff

Which issue, Jeff? Looks likes it might be the Jan/Feb '07 issue?

Print a copy for us ;)

[Stereojeff]

FreddyW:

Dr. Rich's review of the Trinnov professional version of their Optimizer is included in the Jan/Feb. 07 issue of The Sensible Sound. I do not have the right to print or distribute that review but I think you will find it worthwhile reading.

Jeff

[DonoMan]

USB input was added for this purpose as many laptops no longer support serial connections.

Excellent. More MFs need to start doing this. RS232 is far too outdated. I've had a USB-capable computer for 10 years or so now...



Sorry to report that the R-972 will have four HDMI inputs and not the six that I had hoped for.

That's a shame. What about the 872?

[noah katz]

"Also, the R-972 will use the Trinnov Optimizer for Room EQ. This incredible technology measures the soundfield in 3D, uses advanced FIR and IIR digital filters to flatten the response of all channels including the sub and can change the acoustic position of the speakers to bring them to the ITU standard for surround music. David Rich has an extensive review of Trinnov's professional EQ in a recent issue of TSS."

First I've heard of Tinnov, very interesting.

The question is, how much of the performance of the pro version is transferred?

It's well known that the standalone Audyssey pro version is significantly better than the receivers', especially in the bass.

[Dave Moritz]

I am wondering how good the Trinnov Optimizer is compared to the Audyssey system? I am not referring to the professional versions mind you. I am talking about the commercial versions that are not only in current receivers and in the next generation models. I would love to see a comparison done between the two newest offerings of Trinnov and Audyssey. To see which one does a better and more accurate job of room correction.

[Desmo888]

I did some searching onfor the Trinnov Optimizer on Google and found the link below. The article appers to be for the proffessional version, but I am sure the concepts are similar.

Trinnov Artcle (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6235351/Trinnov-optimizer-Trinnov-Audio.html)

Here is the Trinnov web site:

Trinnov (http://www.trinnov.com/)

If anyone finds more information; or more importantly - some good head-to-head comparisons, Please post them.

[D53]

Stereojeff,

Sorry to hear that the R-972 will not have 6 HDMI inputs. This was the primary reason why I had the model at the top of my buy list.

[Slaine]

Stereojeff,

Sorry to hear that the R-972 will not have 6 HDMI inputs. This was the primary reason why I had the model at the top of my buy list.

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that this is the case. I've got three HDMI equipped devices now, and anticipate adding a few more in the next year or so. Having just four HDMI inputs on a state of the art AVR isn't very forward looking IMO. Especially since I expect the unit to be cluttered with multiple composite and s-video connections, the majority of which will likely never be used.

[Digitally challe]

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that this is the case. I've got three HDMI equipped devices now, and anticipate adding a few more in the next year or so. Having just four HDMI inputs on a state of the art AVR isn't very forward looking IMO. Especially since I expect the unit to be cluttered with multiple composite and s-video connections, the majority of which will likely never be used.
A more true statement was never made.

[DonoMan]

4 is still competitive and not BAD, but yes, 6 would be better:

-PC
-DVD
-PS3
-Additional HD player (BD or HD-DVD, whatever)
-Cable
-Sat

I won't have the PS3 or additional HD player, at least not right now, so 4 should work for me. But I can see the possibility of the above list.

[FreddyW]

4 is still competitive and not BAD, but yes, 6 would be better:

-PC
-DVD
-PS3
-Additional HD player (BD or HD-DVD, whatever)
-Cable
-Sat

I won't have the PS3 or additional HD player, at least not right now, so 4 should work for me. But I can see the possibility of the above list.

Looks like Denon and Onkyo are only doing 4 inputs as well?

Wonder if it's cost, or some shared board, or even a limit of the technology. And of course, there's the almighty cost-factor...

For me, it's

Cable STB
DVD (HD player or bluray or whatever. Only gonna have 1!)
Xbox360

Don't know what number 4 will/would be, but we'll see.

What I'd be VERY interested in knowing now, however, is if there will now be TWO HDMI OUTPUTS instead of just one....

[chuckvb]

Would those be DLP displays? That's the problem I have had previously with Faroudja but it was macroblocking on a DLP. That's why the 'F' word makes me skittish. ..I am still getting it though :D

Given that the 6 HDMI inputs just went to 4. The differences between the silicon optix video processor and the Faroudja are key. Seem in the last rev of the Faroudja were not liked much at all.

[DonoMan]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Faroudja these days, but I'll be using a separate VP so it's a moot point for me. But if not for that, I'd be looking at Reon/Realta/Gennum stuff instead.

[ericlhyman]

Reon is not that new now. It is possible that the newest chip may be better. It is premature to judge the new Faroudja chip by the old one. Nevertheless, the video processing quality will be the feature that causes me to choose between S-N and Onkyo.

[Dave Moritz]

While I do not disagree that attention should not be directed towards what scaler these receivers are using. I think people are focusing to much and are not looking at the other areas of the receiver like the amplifier section and how the features are implemented. These receivers are much more than the scaler and that is where the Denon will outshine the Onkyo IMHO. And for those who are using an external scaler the issue of what scaler these receivers are using will be mute. While I will be checking out the new Onkyo's they will really have to step up there game for me to actually pull the trigger and spend my cash on one. But until then I am still planning on owning a Denon or Pioneer Elite HDMI 1.3 receiver.

Top Picks for new HDMI Receiver with DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD decoding:
1. Denon
2. Pioneer Elite
3. Marantz
4. Adcom

Doubtful Selections:
1. Sony
2. Sherwood Newcastle
3. Onkyo
4. Panasonic

[John McCutcheon]

How many times does a person have to post in one brand-specific thread that he's not interested in that brand before he's considered a troll?

[DonoMan]

Just once.

[aus]

Particularly when he talks about the amp section being important and the want's an Elite over an Onkyo or Sherwood. I know the pre-amp section of Elites are very good, but the amp section?

[Southern Spy]

Particularly when he talks about the amp section being important


.. and when he states that 2 of his choices are for units to be mfgd in Etonics Chinese factories, but ditches a product to be made in Etonics Korean factory .... without listening to any of them.

This type of buying gives good marketers sweet dreams.

I'll gladly audition the R972 when it comes, I hope it sounds spectacular. But I won't buy it as I only buy separates... now if there will be a P972 or whatever... that'll have my attention.

[DonoMan]

I only buy separates....


As you said,
This type of buying gives good marketers sweet dreams.

[Dave Moritz]

.. and when he states that 2 of his choices are for units to be mfgd in Etonics Chinese factories, but ditches a product to be made in Etonics Korean factory .... without listening to any of them.

Weather you believe it or not there is a difference in electronics made in Taiwan vs China vs Korea and Japan. They are not all equals and they do not all offer the same quality control. While I have not heard the models that are yet to come out. I have been involved in audio/video since the mid 80's and I have heard plenty of all the major brands. So do not assume I have not ever listened to what these brands have to offer. I have owned Onkyo Integra in the past and actually still own those same pieces. I would put my 20 year old Onkyo Integra against any of these newer model Onkyo's. And before that my father was always buying new gear so I have had alot of exposure to alot of audio gear most of my life. From McIntosh to Crown to Yamaha to NEC, so again do not assume that my opinions are baseless and without merit!

[Gary Murrell]

Japan made gear rules, but I have to say Sherwoods gear is top notch also, I have snooped around inside my p-965 many times, it is very very well made and I am 100% impressed

-Gary

[Gary Murrell]

As you said,

Dono you honestly believe separates don't make a difference :confused:

Over the years this thought has spread from cables to now power amps, to think it has spread to the receiver vs separates debate is disturbing :(

-Gary

[DonoMan]

Separates give you more flexability, like that I could mate FR Class D amps to whatever preamp I want, and I can have as much power as I want. But that's it. If the thing is offered with or without amps, and you can use external amps either way, and it costs more to dump the internal amps that you don't have to use... you'd be retarded to pay more.

[John McCutcheon]

Weather you believe it or not there is a difference in electronics made in Taiwan vs China vs Korea and Japan. They are not all equals and they do not all offer the same quality control. While I have not heard the models that are yet to come out. I have been involved in audio/video since the mid 80's and I have heard plenty of all the major brands. So do not assume I have not ever listened to what these brands have to offer. I have owned Onkyo Integra in the past and actually still own those same pieces. I would put my 20 year old Onkyo Integra against any of these newer model Onkyo's. And before that my father was always buying new gear so I have had alot of exposure to alot of audio gear most of my life. From McIntosh to Crown to Yamaha to NEC, so again do not assume that my opinions are baseless and without merit!
I don't think anyone assumed that. I'm just trying to point out then someone comes to a thread about a specific brand of component and repeatedly criticizes that brand, that's trolling.

[broadwayblue]

Especially since I expect the unit to be cluttered with multiple composite and s-video connections, the majority of which will likely never be used.

Great point. How many composite or s-video sources do people even use these days? 1? 2? Yet new receivers have about half a dozen inputs for each. When are they going to start eliminating or at least reducing the amount of space wasted on them? Personally I'd be fine if they included 1 of each...they'd both go unused, but at least I'd have them if I ever needed them. Time to start going legacy free.

[egcarter]

Weather you believe it or not there is a difference in electronics made in Taiwan vs China vs Korea and Japan. They are not all equals and they do not all offer the same quality control. While I have not heard the models that are yet to come out. I have been involved in audio/video since the mid 80's and I have heard plenty of all the major brands. So do not assume I have not ever listened to what these brands have to offer. I have owned Onkyo Integra in the past and actually still own those same pieces. I would put my 20 year old Onkyo Integra against any of these newer model Onkyo's. And before that my father was always buying new gear so I have had alot of exposure to alot of audio gear most of my life. From McIntosh to Crown to Yamaha to NEC, so again do not assume that my opinions are baseless and without merit!

FYI, Onkyo still manufactures their higher-end models in Japan. The lower-end models are largely manufactured in Malaysia.

E

[i.m. beldar]

Does anyone know the dimensions of the R-872 and R-972? The depth is the most important for me?

Thanks in advance.

[Stereojeff]

R-872 is 15" deep. R-972 is 18" deep.

Jeff

[QZ1]

R-872 is 15" deep.
The 871 is 17 3/8” W x 6” H x 15” D.
Will the 872 be identical?

Also, I see some manufacturers give two Depths, and sometimes two Heights; first, what amounts to the full unit specs., (case and ports, knobs, feet) and another being the specs of just the case, but neither is labeled as such.

AFAICT, Sherwood only lists one set of specs., but I also care about the Depth, as well as the Height; so, are you sure Sherwood is listing the full unit specs.?

In terms of ventilation, the key would be the Depth w/o the back ports, which typically is the full Depth minus ~5/6".

[Stereojeff]

QZ1:

The R-872 will be the same size as the R-871. As I'm reasonably easy to reach, if you need more details please let me know.

Jeff

[Desmo888]

Does anyone know about or have experience with the AUREUS processors from Texas Instruments?

[Gary Murrell]

Separates give you more flexability, like that I could mate FR Class D amps to whatever preamp I want, and I can have as much power as I want. But that's it. If the thing is offered with or without amps, and you can use external amps either way, and it costs more to dump the internal amps that you don't have to use... you'd be retarded to pay more.

too funny man :rolleyes:

-Gary

[catapult]

Dono you honestly believe separates don't make a difference :confused:

Over the years this thought has spread from cables to now power amps, to think it has spread to the receiver vs separates debate is disturbing :(

-Gary I've never seen any logical argument saying why separates SHOULD be better than a receiver. Usually it goes something like separates use better components than receivers. Maybe StereoJeff can chime in here but, as far as I know, the 9-series preamp uses identical components to the 9-series receiver. And receivers avoid all those nasty cables. We all know how evil cables are. ;)

[jdskycaster]

I've never seen any logical argument saying why separates SHOULD be better than a receiver. Usually it goes something like separates use better components than receivers. Maybe StereoJeff can chime in here but, as far as I know, the 9-series preamp uses identical components to the 9-series receiver. And receivers avoid all those nasty cables. We all know how evil cables are. ;)


Not sure I agree with your logic. I have had the covers off of all of the receivers I have ever owned over the years which include models from Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Nakamichi and harman kardon. They all use cables to move power and signals between stages.

Separates I have owned include models from harman kardon, Denon, Parasound, Monster and a Sherwood P965. These also use internal cables but I have never done a direct comparison to count how many the receivers had versus the separates.

My personal experience has separates winning in overall dynamics, separation and an almost non-existent noise floor. Your experience may be different than mine and Sherwood receivers may perform identically to the P965 Pre-Pro with an outboard amp. Maybe that is why they have not announced a successor at this time. I already have a sizeable investment in discrete amplification so I will stay on the separates route for signal selection and processing. There is no need to purchase, or have additional amplification, inside the box when I do not need it.

Best Regards,

JD

[mcleanc]

I am wondering if this reciever will still have two subwoofer pre-outs since in the CES pictures the board layout has changed and none of the literature reveals this info.

What is the time frame for the R9-972, I saw in a previous post that the R-872 was in September so is this the scheduled date for the R-972 also.

[Desmo888]

According to the Ti spec sheet on the Aures Processor, DTS-MA is not one of the algorithms. Whats up with that?

On a good note, it is possible to decode Circle Surround II; but I am not so sure Newcastle will license this feature (unfortunately). I wonder if they could sell plug-ins?

Does anyone know if the 972 uses a proprietary DSP board?

[krholmberg]

The Trinnov EQ feature looks interesting. This is also the first I've heard of it. Seems very similar to Audessy MultEQ XT. I hope the Trinnov performs as well if not better.

Putting in the USB was definitely a good move.

The other obvious issue is the video processor. I too hope it's not the Faroudja. It would be a crying shame to have so many hi end features but then put up a crappy image on the screen. It's too bad that something like that could keep someone from buying the 972, but I would unfortunately be in that camp.

[catapult]

They all use cables to move power and signals between stages. Well, the cable comment was somewhat tongue in cheek because of all the cable fanatics who spend as much on their cables as they do on their amps. But I think a cable a few inches long inside a shielded chassis has the potential to be less harmful than one a few feet long out in the air where the EMI/RFI of urban life can get at it. I'm not saying r