Close to buying an Oppo. Parsing thru all the "problems".

I have a new Samsung HLS6187 DLP. It accepts 1080p over HDMI. It has a basic calibration which will hopefully minimize macroblocking.

Question, all in all, how would you guys tradeoff

1) Better Faroudja processing in the 981 vs 970
2) 1080p on the 981
3) "Sharper" picture on the 970
4) 970 is better price.

I have read the boards and it seems many are quite happy with their 970s and 981s. Some instinctively say to stay away from the 981 on DLP due to macroblocking, but some who have that combination say it isnt that big of a deal.

Just looking for opinions - I can afford either but generally like to get the best value in terms of performance for $$$.

Here's a post in which Oppo addresses some differences:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9179847&&#post9179847

From what they told me, the increased sharpness I noted on my 970 could be at the cost of more aliasing and interlace errors, but I haven't really noticed those on my AE900.

On my Samsung 42" plasma TV, the macroblocking was pretty noticeable on a player with the Faroudja tech running inside it. So much so that I had to return the player and went ahead and ordered a 970.

I too have a new HLS6187. I got a 981 for Christmas and wound up returning it for two reasons. First I noticed macroblocking. Second I sometimes noticed an excessive greenish tint. It is quite possible my TV requires calibration. However I did not notice these two issues with an older progressive scan DVD player hooked up via S-video. I may get the 970 or perhaps wait for the new Samsung DVD-HD1080P7 player recently announced.

Note, the 981 lacks component outputs, thus limiting its hookup flexibility compared to the 970. The 970 is also said to sport better audio.

Richard

Note, the 981 lacks component outputs, thus limiting its hookup flexibility compared to the 970. The 970 is also said to sport better audio.

Richard

But if I have HDMI, which I do, why do I care? And I am most interested in picture as I will be outputting audio to my receiver.

Did you email OPPO? I have a Sammy HL-S6167W and OPPO recomends the 970 for all DLP TV's.

Did you email OPPO? I have a Sammy HL-S6167W and OPPO recomends the 970 for all DLP TV's.

Can you recommend a good torture test DVD for the 981 and a DLP? I have the Toshiba TheaterWide. So far as I can tell, the colors are more problematic than macroblocking but I've yet to really go over it at length.

Did you email OPPO? I have a Sammy HL-S6167W and OPPO recomends the 970 for all DLP TV's.


Reading these threads, there are several people with 6187s who think their Oppo 981 is just fine. Who knows. I guess you can only try and see, but I would rather try the better technology and see if I can see MB, rather than just settle for the middling technology because I am scared I might see MB.

Here is what someone mentioned to me via email: "I have the 981 + 6187 and I love it. Absolutely no MB at all, and I looked for it and even tried some of the known culprits. Just like when I had the 971. Highly recommend!"

That said, I havent ordered anything yet - still have my non-progressive scan Sony DVP975 (I think thats the number) from 2001 hooked up via component, and hey, it looks pretty good!

I too am in the process of getting the 6187 and the Oppo 981....the tv arrives tomorrow and the dvd player by the end of the week. I just found all the supposed "bad info" about the 981 and DLP last night and have been sweating my decision on the 981 all day. I can call and cancel my order on the 981 as it hasn't shipped yet, but like Hogan - I keep reading about the lucky ones that have had no problems.

Eagerly waiting on more info and opinions...... :confused:

At 480p and 720p will their be a noticeable difference from the 970 to 981?

Reason I'm asking is I have the 980 right now hooked up to my Philips 37" LCD and I've noticed a decent amount of macroblocking. If I was to exchange it for the 970 will I eliminate some of this?

I too am in the process of getting the 6187 and the Oppo 981....the tv arrives tomorrow and the dvd player by the end of the week. I just found all the supposed "bad info" about the 981 and DLP last night and have been sweating my decision on the 981 all day. I can call and cancel my order on the 981 as it hasn't shipped yet, but like Hogan - I keep reading about the lucky ones that have had no problems.

Eagerly waiting on more info and opinions...... :confused:


I would love to try the 981 to see how it performs on my 5668 DLP. The problem is that my 5668 is natively 1080P, but does not accept 1080P input. If your 6187 can accept 1080P input, you should try it out. You have 30 days to return the 981.

I too am in the process of getting the 6187 and the Oppo 981....the tv arrives tomorrow and the dvd player by the end of the week. I just found all the supposed "bad info" about the 981 and DLP last night and have been sweating my decision on the 981 all day. I can call and cancel my order on the 981 as it hasn't shipped yet, but like Hogan - I keep reading about the lucky ones that have had no problems.

Eagerly waiting on more info and opinions...... :confused:


Pls come back and post once you've tried the combo -- more info can only help us.

To the other poster, yes, the 6187 can take in 1080p thru HDMI.

So..... you guys think I ought to let the 981 ship and try it out??

This is my first HDTV and I'm not sure what I'll be looking for! HAHAHA! I just learned last night was macroblocking was!

A few questions that I haven't had the chance to look at or ask.....

Is HDMI the only output on the 981?? No S-video or Optic? I know it doesn't have component (one of it faults!). If it has S-vid or Optic, has anyone tried these connections to DLP tvs to correct the problems??

Also - I assume the Samsung 6187 is HDCP compatible, correct??

(Sorry for the newbie questions, but I've been out of the Home Theater market since the early 90's)

So..... you guys think I ought to let the 981 ship and try it out??

This is my first HDTV and I'm not sure what I'll be looking for! HAHAHA! I just learned last night was macroblocking was!

A few questions that I haven't had the chance to look at or ask.....

Is HDMI the only output on the 981?? No S-video or Optic? I know it doesn't have component (one of it faults!). If it has S-vid or Optic, has anyone tried these connections to DLP tvs to correct the problems??

Also - I assume the Samsung 6187 is HDCP compatible, correct??

(Sorry for the newbie questions, but I've been out of the Home Theater market since the early 90's)

The 981 has composite and s-video, but these are recommended for diagnostic purposes, not real use. Optical video? I don't know what that is.

All HDMI devices have HDCP, although you hear of compatibilty glitches from time to time.

If you are prepared to tinker with the calibration in case you discover macroblocking enchancement, then sure, try the 981. Some people make it work with DLP, others don't. Else, if you don't want to bother, the 970 does not use the Fasroudja chip and should have no MB.

-Bill

At 480p and 720p will their be a noticeable difference from the 970 to 981?

Reason I'm asking is I have the 980 right now hooked up to my Philips 37" LCD and I've noticed a decent amount of macroblocking. If I was to exchange it for the 970 will I eliminate some of this?

Are you sure? MB is rarely reported on LCDs. I see it once in a blue moon on my Westinghouse 37" and 981, most recently in LADY IN THE WATER in a stairwell scene: "Hey, look! Macroblocking! Wait, it's gone..."

The 970 is often described as "sharper, but with rougher deinterlacing," and the 971/981 as "smoother, more film-like". The differences will be more apparent on a larger screen; at 37" I'm not sure it would matter. I've never demoed a 970, but have recommended it to friends.

-Bill

Can somebody please explain to this newbie what macroblocking is? And should I be concerned with it?

Here is my new setup, followed by a few other questions...

I just got the Panasonic AX100 projector from ProjectorPeople.com. And they included the Oppo 970 in the package. I really wanted to get the 981 with the Faroujda processing. And if I understand correctly, the 981 also includes the audio upgrades of the 970. Is that correct?

Somebody I know is interested in buying the 970 from me, and I could go ahead and buy the 981.
If I do so, I will gain the Faroujda processing, but I will lose the component outputs.
Not a big deal, since I think the HDMI signal looks better than the component signal anyway, even if only slightly. For testing purposes, I also really like that the 970 allows any resolution, including 480i, to be output through either the HDMI or component outputs.

My projector is only 720p, so the 1080p output of the 981 does not really benefit me. But is the Faroujda processor, and the other features of the 981 worth the extra money? Or should I just keep the "free" 970 until I get an HD player?

FWIW, if I sell the 970, I also have an 11-year-old Sony S7000 to hold me over. In my brief testing, they look very similar, which is a testament to the good processing of the projector. The 970 might be *slightly* better -- especially since it can output 720p over HDMI.

I appreciate everyone's help!

Thanks!
-- Peter

Can somebody please explain to this newbie what macroblocking is? And should I be concerned with it?

Here is my new setup, followed by a few other questions...

I just got the Panasonic AX100 projector from ProjectorPeople.com. And they included the Oppo 970 in the package. I really wanted to get the 981 with the Faroujda processing. And if I understand correctly, the 981 also includes the audio upgrades of the 970. Is that correct?

Somebody I know is interested in buying the 970 from me, and I could go ahead and buy the 981.
If I do so, I will gain the Faroujda processing, but I will lose the component outputs.
Not a big deal, since I think the HDMI signal looks better than the component signal anyway, even if only slightly. For testing purposes, I also really like that the 970 allows any resolution, including 480i, to be output through either the HDMI or component outputs.

My projector is only 720p, so the 1080p output of the 981 does not really benefit me. But is the Faroujda processor, and the other features of the 981 worth the extra money? Or should I just keep the "free" 970 until I get an HD player?

FWIW, if I sell the 970, I also have an 11-year-old Sony S7000 to hold me over. In my brief testing, they look very similar, which is a testament to the good processing of the projector. The 970 might be *slightly* better -- especially since it can output 720p over HDMI.

I appreciate everyone's help!

Thanks!
-- Peter

Macroblocking is mainly a type of AVSForum hysteria. The complaints I see are mostly from DLP and plasma owners, much more rare on other types.

It is an mpeg compression artifact. It's in the DVD, there is no getting rid of it if it's present. Some chip sets enhance the effect and make it more visible. The Faroudja chip is said to be an example.

When I have seen it it looks like low-rez boiling clouds or insect swarms on large blank background surfaces like walls or doors. It's really obvious when it happens; if you're not sure, you're not seeing it.

-Bill

A title that I can remember that had terrible macroblocking using my Oppo 971 and HLR4266W was Matrix 3, at the end in the park. The clouds at sunset has horrible macroblocking issues.
I'm using the same DVD player, but now upgraded to HLS5687W, and I watched the same scene last night, no issues what-so-ever.
I think the TV looks great with it.

A title that I can remember that had terrible macroblocking using my Oppo 971 and HLR4266W was Matrix 3, at the end in the park. The clouds at sunset has horrible macroblocking issues.
I'm using the same DVD player, but now upgraded to HLS5687W, and I watched the same scene last night, no issues what-so-ever.
I think the TV looks great with it.


Is there are chance that the HLS versions of DLP don't show as much macroblocking as earlier versions? Due to different video processing capabilities or something?

What is about the the Faroudja chip upscaling algorithms that accentuate macroblocking relative to other chips?

Is there are chance that the HLS versions of DLP don't show as much macroblocking as earlier versions? Due to different video processing capabilities or something?

I truthfully don't know. But I've been tearing through my collection pulling out all the movies I used to have "issues" with on my older DLP, and I haven't experienced any of the macroblocking that I used to see.

I am scheduled to receive my Oppo 981 tomorrow. I will then hook it up to my HL-S6187 through my Onkyo TX-SR674 via HDMI and report back on my findings.

Someone want to post a list of some movies I should look at more the MB problem and what scenes in particular?

I can report my findings back faster if I know what and where to go look!! :D

I am scheduled to receive my Oppo 981 tomorrow. I will then hook it up to my HL-S6187 through my Onkyo TX-SR674 via HDMI and report back on my findings.

Someone want to post a list of some movies I should look at more the MB problem and what scenes in particular?

I can report my findings back faster if I know what and where to go look!! :D


Do tell when you've had a chance to hook it up. Appreciate it!

Macroblocking is mainly a type of AVSForum hysteria. The complaints I see are mostly from DLP and plasma owners, much more rare on other types.

It is an mpeg compression artifact. It's in the DVD, there is no getting rid of it if it's present. Some chip sets enhance the effect and make it more visible. The Faroudja chip is said to be an example.

When I have seen it it looks like low-rez boiling clouds or insect swarms on large blank background surfaces like walls or doors. It's really obvious when it happens; if you're not sure, you're not seeing it.

-Bill

Well, I saw it with my Kenwood DV-6050 back in 2003 on my Panny PT-56WFX95a CRT RPTV. That particular Kenwood model was one of the first (if not *the* first) dvd changer to implement the Faroudja chipset and DVD-A. There wasn't enough information at the time to determine the cause of macroblocking (nor was there a name for it), but I assure you it existed long before DLP or plasmas screens hit the mass market. I saw it again with the same tv in the Denon universal players from 2004 (1920 and 2910), Zenith DVB-318, and a few other Faroudja-based players of the 39 dvd players I've owned since '97. I've never seen it outside of the Faroudja chipset, but then again, I learned my lesson years ago after about four MB players-- if your display is susceptible to MB, stay away from the Faroudja-based players.

I've never understood the reasons why MB appears in some dvd players with some tvs, but it's there with certain combinations, all the same.

All in all, this is most certainly NOT a case of "AVSForum hysteria."

Just hooked up the Oppo 981 to my new 71" 1080p DLP (Samsung HL-S7178W) and it appears to do a great job upconverting my regular DVDs. I'll try some more titles tomorrow, but so far so good. It also worked fine with a Sony 40V2500 1080p LCD.

All in all, this is most certainly NOT a case of "AVSForum hysteria."

I meant that people who are not seeing macroblocking, don't know what it is and are running gear not susceptible to it are still afraid it's going to jump off the screen and burn out their eyes.

Other examples of AVSForum hysteria would be HDMI 1.3 and "burn-in" on LCD or DLP.

-Bill

Ahhh, gotcha now. In that case, I totally agree with you.

Well, here's my report......

I've got the Oppo 981 connected to my HL-S6187. Connections are run like this:

Oppo 981 (HDMI)===>Onkyo TX-SR674 (HDMI)===>HL-S6187(HDMI)

I have watched 4 movies, 2 animated and 2 live action

Monsters, Inc.
The Incredibles
Pirates of the Carribean - Dead Man's Chest
The DaVinci Code

I made it a point look for strange color shades and shifts in the colors (esp. in the background) in these movies, paying particular attention in Monsters, Inc as it has been mentioned several times on topics as a movie that exhibits some macroblocking.

The picture has been absolutely wonderful and I did not see anything I would consider strange.

All in all, I am keeping my 891 and am glad I bought it!! :)

The potential macroblocking issues aside, has anyone compared the quality of the upscaled output between these two players on larger screens (50"+)? I have a 50" panny plasma, and when I called Oppo for advice they still recommended the 981 over the 970 even with the added risk of macroblocking.

The potential macroblocking issues aside, has anyone compared the quality of the upscaled output between these two players on larger screens (50"+)? I have a 50" panny plasma, and when I called Oppo for advice they still recommended the 981 over the 970 even with the added risk of macroblocking.


I own a 50" Panny Plasma and have this question as well. Do I get the 970 and use 480i over HDMI or 720p/1080i as well as superior audio, or do I get the 981 and upscale to 1080p?

I have the same questions as above - infact i just started a new thread about these players with the panny plasma 50px50u.

i dont really want macroblocking - i thought this was supposed to be especially bad with the panny plasmas -- maybe it is just dlp though? we watch alot of disney animated stuff here which i hear can have the Macroblock pretty bad.

I've seen only 1 other member comment on the 981 and he has no issues (at least DVD related :cool: ) with the Optoma.
Any others?????

I own a 50" Panny Plasma and have this question as well. Do I get the 970 and use 480i over HDMI or 720p/1080i as well as superior audio, or do I get the 981 and upscale to 1080p?

With the 970 and the 50" panny, it would say it breaks down like this:

480p > 720p > 480i > 1080i

So the choice comes down to 480p vs 720p (with 480p being noticably better). This is consistant with what others have said that the 970 is better at de-interlacing than the panny, but the panny is better at scaling. I would have predicted that the Oppo would have been better with scaling as well, but that was not the case. If the panny has an exceptionally good scaler then it would be really interesting to compare it to the Oppo 981.

However, I do have an issue with 480p. I have some 2:35:1 dvd's that I prefer to watch zoomed (i don't care that the picture gets cropped - it is just my preference with some movies). Unfortunately, the zoom feature doesn't seem to work with 480p sources (it doesn't zoom proportionately). So for those movies I have to switch the Oppo to 720p.

Well I just pulled the trigger on the 981. I will report my experiences over HDMI once it arrives.
RIP Denon DVD2200 :(

Well I just pulled the trigger on the 981. I will report my experiences over HDMI once it arrives.
RIP Denon DVD2200 :(


So did I Tyro. Should be here in a few days.

RIP Denon 1910..

Jake

With the 970 and the 50" panny, it would say it breaks down like this:

480p > 720p > 480i > 1080i

So the choice comes down to 480p vs 720p (with 480p being noticably better). This is consistant with what others have said that the 970 is better at de-interlacing than the panny, but the panny is better at scaling. I would have predicted that the Oppo would have been better with scaling as well, but that was not the case. If the panny has an exceptionally good scaler then it would be really interesting to compare it to the Oppo 981.

However, I do have an issue with 480p. I have some 2:35:1 dvd's that I prefer to watch zoomed (i don't care that the picture gets cropped - it is just my preference with some movies). Unfortunately, the zoom feature doesn't seem to work with 480p sources (it doesn't zoom proportionately). So for those movies I have to switch the Oppo to 720p.

That's interesting, I have heard that many owners use the Oppo 970 at straight 480i to their Panny. Good to know, now I just have to find out if it is better than the 981 and more importantly, my xbox360. I know I can use Oppo's liberal return policy, but I would rather not if I can find out before I buy it.

I have a Panasonic AE-500U LCD Projector with a 100" screen. I've been reading up on the OPPO, but still am uncertain. Currently, I have the cheapest of the cheap Denon Progressive Scan DVD Player (came free with the Denon AVR-2805 receiver I purchased). I have no reason to play many of these other formats this player supports. I just want a great looking upconverting player to handle my DVDs.

Will the 970's PQ blow me away with my Panasonic PJ over my cheap Denon Progressive Scan player?

The potential macroblocking issues aside, has anyone compared the quality of the upscaled output between these two players on larger screens (50"+)? I have a 50" panny plasma, and when I called Oppo for advice they still recommended the 981 over the 970 even with the added risk of macroblocking.
I have a 981 with Optoma HD70 PJ on a 122" screen over HDMI and the picture is absolutely stunning.
I was not aware of MB until I read it here.

Watched another movie today without seeing any MB.....so far the 981 is very nice!

I own a 50" Panny Plasma and have this question as well. Do I get the 970 and use 480i over HDMI or 720p/1080i as well as superior audio, or do I get the 981 and upscale to 1080p?

Which Panasonic 50" Plasma do you have?

The Panasonic TH-50PX600U and Panasonic TH-42PX600U both list 1080P Direct Input as a feature that isn't in the Panasonic TH-50PX60U and Panasonic TH-42PX60U.

According to the Crutchfield.com definition, "Direct input means the TV has at least one input that accepts 1080p signals directly, with no conversion needed."

The panels in each are each 1366x768.

So -- does the 1080p input sway the decision towards the Oppo 981? Or does the fact that 1080p is more resolution than the actual panel can handle imply there is no benefit (at least, from the 1080p feature) of going with the 981?

[I have a 970 on order, but still on the fence. I have the TH-42PX600U. I'm tempted to buy one of each, and return one, but that doesn't seem right.]

John

The Panasonic TH-50PX600U and Panasonic TH-42PX600U both list 1080P Direct Input as a feature that isn't in the Panasonic TH-50PX60U and Panasonic TH-42PX60U.

Probably just an oversight in the description. The 6U/60U/600U should be indentical from an internal processing standpoint and all accept a 1080p signal.

Probably just an oversight in the description. The 6U/60U/600U should be indentical from an internal processing standpoint and all accept a 1080p signal.

According to the Crutchfield.com definition, "Direct input means the TV has at least one input that accepts 1080p signals directly, with no conversion needed."

Furthermore you cannot have direct input of 1080p signal into a panel that displays 720p. It MUST be scaled before it is displayed. Sounds like Crutchfield either doesn't know what they are talking about or is taking liberties in their marketing verbage.

I read somewhere that the Panny plasmas actually convert everything to 1080p internally then map that signal to the display itself 768xXXXX.

Didn't mean for the confusion, I more or less was asking if I was better off getting a 970 or a 981. I have read that some people have terrible macroblocking problems with Panny Plasmas, other do not. I have read quite a few posts from Panny + 970 owners that love the player and at least two owners of both a Panny + 981 combo that like it, the 981 owners that liked the combo had a 50U and a 600U. Right now I am using my xbox360 over component and feel for 1. I can do better and 2. I would rather not use it constantly as a dvd player.

From reading and researching. It basically boils down to this.

If you have a tv that upconverts buy the 970. If you have a tv that doesnt upconvert buy the 981.

Just my .02

Jake

I have a 981 with Optoma HD70 PJ on a 122" screen over HDMI and the picture is absolutely stunning.
I was not aware of MB until I read it here.

That's good to hear! Now we have 2 Optoma HD70 owners reporting good results. Mine will hopefully arrive next week.

Probably just an oversight in the description. The 6U/60U/600U should be indentical from an internal processing standpoint and all accept a 1080p signal.

Yes, I think you are correct. Looking at the Panasonic site there is no mention of Direct Input or 1080p input for either model.

John

Will the 970's PQ blow me away with my Panasonic PJ over my cheap Denon Progressive Scan player?


Yes Tony I also have an lcd projector and the oppo is much better than my old panasonic 480p dvd player .
I also have a samsung hd-841 upscaling dvd player and the oppo buries it easily,
The 720p setting looks best on my display.

I just ordered one of the factory refur'b HD-981HD players tonight direct from Oppo for $183. The A-stock players were backordered when I checked, so I figured why not save $46 for a player that has the same warranty and support as a new one??

I'll be hooking it up via HDMI to my brand new JVC HD-56FN97. It will be replacing a harman/kardon DVD-31 player that I've had for about 6 months.

Can't wait to get it!!

any updates to this thread from those who purchased recently?

Had mine hooked up for over a week now. No problems at all!

Contacted Oppo Digital yesterday because I just got my new Samsung HL-S5687W and wanted to know which Oppo model was best for my set.

They said the following, word for word:

Walter,

DLP technology is particularly susceptible to macroblocking, due to the
low bit-depth and contrast and brightness ratios. DLP displays
primarily use 8-bit processing and an 8-bit PWM scheme on the DMD
mirrors, and out of box, most DLPs do not fully utilize their entire
range of digital bits (steps between black and white). For this reason,
without proper calibration using professional grade calibration discs
such as AVIA or DVE, DLP displays will enhance macroblocking and
false-contouring errors.

Because DLP displays are macroblock enhancing, we would not recommend
the use of the OPDV971H or DV-981HD on DLP displays, as the OPDV971H
and DV-981HD will macroblock enhance as well. We would recommend the
DV-970HD for DLP displays as it will produce a very good picture and
will not produce macroblocking errors.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

After receiving this e-mail, I believe purchasing the 970 is the right choice.

Gonna order one right now.

any updates to this thread from those who purchased recently?

I just got mine on Wednesday and have it hooked up to a JVC HD-56FN97. I had some weird green pixellation on some scenes in Finding Nemo and Star Wars EP II. I downloaded the newest beta firmware update and installed it last night. I'm watching Finding Nemo right now and I think the problem has been solved.

Some help please.

I'm sitting on the fence b/t the DV-981HD and the DV-970HD. Currently I have a 30 inch crt tv capable of displaying 1080i but not 1080p, so I realize I won't be able to fully utilize the DV-981HD's potential. I also realize that with only a 30 inch tv upconverting may not do much over a progressive scan dvd player (how much difference?). However in 1-2 years I will probably be getting a new tv, probably one capable of 1080p and of course a larger screen. I have read that the DV-981HD does worse than the DV-970HD on 1080i sets due to the Faroudja chip's re-interlacing abilities (I read about it on the epinion's DV-981HD webpage. I can't post the direct link being a new member)

So on the DV-970HD I see the advantages as being:
card/usb slot
possibly better display on my current tv
no macroblocking (I don't own dlp but would be nice to consider for future)

For the DV-981HD I see
better display on a future tv set
display dimmer/off
black unit, with blue display

I do have HDMI with my current set and with a price difference of about $80 b/t the two neither of these are a factor. Does anyone know if the DV-970HD's display is a distraction while watching a movie (too bright)? Does anyone know how the DV-981HD and the DV-970HD display pictures compare on a 1080i set? If they're about the same, I'll probably go with the DV-981HD. Thank you for any help.

I have the Oppo 981 with my Panasonic plasma 50PH9UK and So far I see no macroblocking enhance after several hours of testing. Just fyi.

-Rich

I ordered a 970HD for my Mits. WD-57731 1080p DLP. I was kinda torn, Oppo suggested the 970 for DLPs, but the 981 for sets over 50". I asked them twice and they felt that any negatives from the 970 would be less than the 981.

My responses were one-liners and not nearly as infomrative as the one posted above. They basically said "Oppo recommends the 970HD for DLP sets". If they would have explained, I would have gone 981. I guees they are catering more to the standard users that just open the box and watch their DLPs.

However, I did not know that calibration using DVE would all but eliminate the macroblocking. I have DVE and planned on using it after the player comes.

My 970 should be here next Thurs. and then I will check it out. If it is much better then my Sony progressive player than I will keep it. If the "wow" factor doesn't blow me away, I may see about returing it for the 981.

I kinda wish now I would have ordered the 981 and tried it to see if the MB was manageable, then getting the 970 if necessary.

I kinda wish now I would have ordered the 981 and tried it to see if the MB was manageable, then getting the 970 if necessary.

Thats kinda how I'm leaning too. On my 61 inch DLP I don't want to sacrifice video quality, and some people have not noticed MB on this combination. Perhaps they were just not watching the movies with heavy macroblock in them.

I'm returning the 981 - two movies showed the MB (looked like insects swarming on the screen). My set (Samsung HL-S7178W) is not professionally calibrated yet. Will probably get the 970. Oppo has 30-day return (they'll email you a FedEx label to print out). I also spoke with the infamous Eliab yesterday and he recommended the 970 over the 981 especially for Samsung DLPs.

Buy the player that suits your displays native resolution...no more needs said really..

I've had my player for a few weeks now and have watched several movies. No macroblocking whatsoever on any DVD I've watched. My TV is a JVC HD-56FN97. I've messed around changing the upscaling and have found that 1080p always looks best, probably because that is my TV's native resolution.

I downloaded and installed the latest Beta firmware update. Haven't had any glitches or anything since doing that at all.

The one thing I don't like about the player is that if you opt to have the front panel display turned off while you're watching a movie, if you turn the player off and then back on you have to go into the menu to turn the panel display off again.

My friends were blown away with how Star Wars III looked with the Oppo. We watched the tail end of it after the Super Bowl a few weeks back.

I haven't messed around with the picture settings too much. I do have TrueLife enhancement on, but that's about it.

The potential macroblocking issues aside, has anyone compared the quality of the upscaled output between these two players on larger screens (50"+)? I have a 50" panny plasma, and when I called Oppo for advice they still recommended the 981 over the 970 even with the added risk of macroblocking.

I contacted Oppo today via email with their recommendation for my TH50PX600U. They stated the same as above. Here is the exact quote:

For your television there are two basic recommendations:

1. DV-981HD. We would recommend this model if your prime directive is for quality de-interlacing and scaling. The DV-981HD has the highest quality video processing, resulting in the most film-like picture experience available for your display at 720. It is also the only player which support PAL 2:2 Cadence. However, this advanced de-interlacing, scaling and video processing will increase macroblocking errors. These erorrs can be an inconvenience. Most macroblocking error can be removed from the display through a proper video calibration using AVIA, DVE, or the THX Optimizer.

2. DV-970HD. If you are worried about macroblocking errors, do not have the opportunity or skill to do a professional grade calibration, or want the sharpest picture possible, then you will go with the DV-970HD.
You will lose some de-interlacing capabilities, especially in terms of PAL 2:2 Cadence support, but it will be free of macroblocking errors.
We recommend this option if you do not feel you are equipped to do a proper calibration or you want a more "plug and play" DVD player.

So has anyone connected the 981 to their AVIA calibrated panasonic plasma and had good luck? What is everyone's opinion?

OK OK, I'll give a breakdown because I have both the 970 and 971 right now. 971 should be about the same as the 981 in picture quality. I got the 970 first to replace a cheap Samsung and was very impressed with it. After reading so much about the 971 on here, my curiousity got the best of me and I bought one of those too.

So here are my observations. BTW 970 is hooked HDMI and 971 is DVI to HDMI cable (not an adaptor). I have a Panasonic 50" 60U calibrated with Avia but not professionally calibrated.


First, I've not compared the audio because I have a separate dedicated music system so I don't care much and I run the dvd audio digitally directly into my Arcam AVR and let it do the digital decoding. There has been enough written, and I know enough very knowledgeable audio people who tell me the 970 sounds better, so I believe it. Heck the 970 was all over the Venetian at the high end audio section of CES this year. It should be noted though that the 970 only sounds better if you are using it's analong audio outputs. If you are using a digital connection through coax, spdif or hdmi, there should be no difference. If your primary interest is audio, you should buy the 970 and hook it to your amplifier with it's analog outputs.

Picture quality:
I've spent a lot of time comparing analog/digital outputs and the output settings and on my Panny. HDMI vs. component makes very little difference. There is a slight improvement in clarity using hdmi but it is so close that I would not go out of my way to use hdmi if component were more convenient for other reasons. This is from comparing the resolution scales on Avia. To my eye, the 970 looks best at 480P. It seems the 970 does a better job than the Panny at deinterlacing but the Panny does better at sacaling. You can confirm the deinterlacing part by playing the moving plate from Avia or DVE. At 480P the picture looks very natural with almost no digital artifacts. It looks just a touch grainy as if the Panny doesn't do much smoothing when it upsamples. It looks similar to the natural grain of a film photo though and doesn't bother me. At 720P, the picture is noticably sharper, but to my eye, not in a good way. It is the unnatural sharpness like turning the sharpness up too high in the panel settings. It also starts to get some aliasing and blockiness around edges. You can see it clearly if you stand close to the panel then if you back up, you notice the overall loss of clarity vs. 480P. 1080i is out of the question because it is back to letting the Panny deinterlace.

While the 970 is clearly better at interlacing than the Panny, I do see errors. It is very apparent on one disc I have of the Coachella music festival. The Radiohead track was shot at night with a lot of flashing lights and you can see the horizontal interlacing lines when the lights flash.

Interesting thing about the 971 is that on the moving plate, it looks like it is worse than the 970 at deinterlacing, but on playback, it is clearly much better. The Radiohead torture disc clearly shows this because there is no sign of the interlacing lines. I kept reading about how much better it is at deinterlacing and it is true but not much is said about the fact that that the 971 is also better at scaling. The 971 looks better on my Panny at 720P. It is clearly sharper without the oversharpening of the 970 and it doesn't have the aliasing errors. Outlines, color differences etc. are very clear with almost no digital noise.

As for macroblocking... yes I see it. It is worst in dark areas, that is why everyone says proper calibration helps a lot. New panels, and untrained adjusters tend to set their tv way too bright. So if you calibrate properly, it will be darker and some of that macroblocking will get lost. So yes, I see it but I don't think it is that bad. It did bother me on a scene in Good Night and Good Luck. It was the talking head scene in the office at the end where half the frame was the wall behind and it had some macroblocking and flashing. This bothered me because the scene was so static and long but this is unusual. My decision has been that I would not trade the overall better picture quality of the 971 for the occasional macroblocking annoyance. YMMV.

Last note, because of it's better picture, the 971 will show warts on poor looking or poorly transferred discs. It is less forgiving of lower quality video than the 970.

Now this is how it looks to me on a Panasonic plasma. As soon as you use a different monitor, things are going to change. For example the Pioneer with the Faroudja may not be any better with the 971/981 than the 970 at 480i. So you have to take into account your monitor and situation.

Harry,

Excellent review with the Panny. Thank you so much for taking the time for such a write-up. 981 is now on the way.

Harry,
Presuming you're going to return one of the two players which model are you going to keep?

Harry,
Presuming you're going to return one of the two players which model are you going to keep?

Well, not really returning either because I don't think it is right. Buying with the intention of keeping it unless there is a problem is one thing but buying with the intention of returning is not ethical. I might ebay one but I have no time restrictions on doing that. Heck these just aren't very expensive either.

As for which, I don't know. I am torn by the fact that the 971 can look pretty bad with poor quality discs. There are also some discs with more macroblocking than others and every once in awhile, I'll get a disc that bothers me some. This weekend I watched Babel and it did draw my attention from the movie more than a couple of times. The 970 does not suffer these problems.

But on good discs, the 971 is clearly better in areas of focus, depth, clarity etc.

Another comparison that has been mentioned on these pages, but I'll mention again because it bothers me... The display on the 970 is bright and cannot be dimmed or turned off. On everything else I own, the front panel can be dimmed or turned off. The 970 cannot but the 971 can.

In case others are interested, I have both the 970 and 981 and have compared them side by side with the same disk in each player (2 copies).

Background:
My TV is a Panasonic plasma monitor 50PH9UK. I have carefully calibrated it with an EyeOne colorimeter and HFCR software. It was not necessary to recalibrate for each specific player because they were very close. Player comparisons were done using 1080i input. FYI, the deinterlacing remaining to be done by the TV in this case is a very simple form, all the difficult deinterlacing work has already been completed by the dvd player deinterlacing process even in the case of 1080i output. This is easy to verify. My plasma can not pass the deinterlacing tests by itself, but when fed the 1080i output from the Oppo 981 it passes with flying colors!

Observations:

Both are good, but...

(1) The 981 is the clear winner in PQ in every possible way except slight macroblocking enhancement in 1 out of 40 dvds so far. (Da Vinci Code at timestamp 1:52:32). The picture just looks better. Hard to quantify how.

(2) The 970 has more noise (grainy) than the 981 even with the 981 noise reduction in the OFF position.

(3) The 981 is significantly better at the HQV benchmark dvd deinterlacing tests, as expected. I can also see this is actual video viewing whenever there are diagonal lines, but it is not that apparent.

(4) The 970 may be a little sharper, but this sharpness does not look better, just different imho. I understand some may like it better, but not me. Personal taste.

(5) The 981 is a bit green overall at times (see Kill Bill Ch 11) (green cast/push), but with the beta FW upgrade this is almost completely eliminated.

(6) The 981 looks much better on PAUSE than the 970 does, incase this is important for your needs. With the 970 freeze frame you will see interlacing jaggies, etc.

(7) The 970 offers 480i over HDMI in case you have an external scaler. I could not test this.

(8) The 981 offers 1080p in case your display can support it. I could not test this.


I hope this helps.

Rich

very informative rpauls! Good job!