I know this is the PJ forum but with all of the RS1 discussion here it seems appropriate to ask everyone what they will be pairing with their RS1's currently on order. I'm having quite the struggle identifying which way to go on this myself and would appreciate everyone else's thoughts on the matter to insure I'm not overlooking something. I'm currently thinking a ceiling mount with the 1.4 gain Carada BW in 118" diag. size is my "best" option at this point. I would like higher gain but my dilemma is I don't like the "sparklies" of the SS and the HP doesn't seem to provide any noticeable improvements to what a "better implemented", Carada BW/ceiling mount setup would offer. Below are some diagrams of a couple of different shelf mounts on a HP with estimated gain based on Tryg's latest review for reference.

Shelf at an acceptable height from second row heads:

http://members.cox.net/jbratton/HP%20Viewing%20Angle%20model%201.jpg

With the shelf at it's lowest limits it would be:

http://members.cox.net/jbratton/HP%20Viewing%20Angle%20model%202.jpg

Given that the ~1 foot above peoples heads only offers a smaller amount (~.3) of gain in the front row, I'm not sure that is a great compromise.

My primary viewing location is the front row which causes the problem for a shelf mount. The room will have complete light control so angular reflective screens are valid options. Anyone got any other HG screens to throw in the mix I haven't considered that don't have sparklies or hot spots? What screen are you planning for your setup if it's over 110" diag?

BTW: Google SketchUp is a great tool for mocking up your rooms and getting the "angles" figured out. Plus it's free...

I wouldn't be crazy about having the pj 1.5 feet above the back row heads, especially if little kids may be in your theater at any point (to keep their paws off the equipment). Also the pj noise, although said to be quiet could be an issue so close.

Also try to keep in mind FUTURE pjs as well. A year or two or three down the road you may want to upgrade. By that point pjs may be much brighter and so forth.

I see your dilemma though - at just 1.3 gain in the front that may not be enough for the RS1 on a 118" diag...

I'll have adequate brightness with 1.3 gain initially but at half bulb life things will probably be too dim. Based on the ftl calculator with the RS1 starting with 600 calibrated lumens - I'd be at 18.8 ftl on a new bulb and 9.4 ftl at half life. I sure would like to find a way to push that half life up close to 16 ftl if possible. The wife and I will use this as our primary TV watching area so the PJ will have high usage and I'm afraid bulb replacements will be a little too often.

Do you know of any other ~2 gain screens other than the HP or the SS?

I guess I'm just pushing the limit of this PJ too far then - why can't they get us a true 900 to 1000 lumen PJ of this quality? (I know, I know...someday that will happen - but I need it by March!)

Mako,

I think a HP will work for you.

Your layout is similar to mine, but even a little better I think as your pj is lower.

Based on comparison w/a matte screen, I estimate I'm getting from 1.8 - 2.0 gain w/my HP.

Besdies the gain the HP gives good rejection of ceiling and sidewall reflections, improving ANSI CR.

Brightness is subjective, but I wouldn't necessarily knock 8 or 9ftL until you have seen it and judged for yourself. I had this experience first hand - after getting my light meter I was quite shocked to find I was only getting 7ftL of my Firehawk on my 500 hr Ruby. I couldn't believe it because I would have bet it was about double that because it looked so bright. Then again I have no outside lighting whatsoever and keep it dark. Just something to consider.

Mako,

I think a HP will work for you.

Your layout is similar to mine, but even a little better I think as your pj is lower.

Based on comparison w/a matte screen, I estimate I'm getting from 1.8 - 2.0 gain w/my HP.

Besdies the gain the HP gives good rejection of ceiling and sidewall reflections, improving ANSI CR.

Noah - The numbers I used were based on Tryg's recent review of the HP and the ftl calculator from this site. Might be a little off but I think they are close. I'd LOVE to be wrong as I really had it in my mind I'd use this screen. I like the fact that I can have a little light on as well with this option - even though my ceiling and front wall are flat black and side walls a dark "flat" red. Might just need to get a sample and see for myself...

Brightness is subjective, but I wouldn't necessarily knock 8 or 9ftL until you have seen it and judged for yourself. I had this experience first hand - after getting my light meter I was quite shocked to find I was only getting 7ftL of my Firehawk on my 500 hr Ruby. I couldn't believe it because I would have bet it was about double that because it looked so bright. Then again I have no outside lighting whatsoever and keep it dark. Just something to consider.

lovingdvd - This will be my first projection setup so I'm just going off of what I've read on this site. Given we will watch TV and movies from the screen I figured we'd fall atleast above the recommended ftl for movies - which is above 12 ftl from what I understand. We will have excellent light control in the room with no windows and dark walls & ceiling. I have two directional down lights right over the seating I was wanting to use in a "dim" mode for the occasional college football game and when the wife wants to read while I'm watching something. Wish there was a way to get an understanding what 9 ftl looks like prior to biting the bullet.

Very nice diagram and, especially, viewing angle information. Don't forget to think about the width of each row. The higher shelf option might put viewers on the far ends of the first row into a noticeably dimmer position. I am thinking of a setup very much like this one and I'll be keeping the pj as low as possible with my High Power. Edit: If you're doing three across - I see the Berkline 090s come in threes - that will work fairly well, but I'd still go low with the shelf if no one's going to be reaching for the lens or bumping his head into it.

Dan

Where did you get the specs on the throw range for the rs1?

Where did you get the specs on the throw range for the rs1?

Projector Central - 1x to 1.97 would allow a range of 11.5' to 23.7' for 118" diagnal screen. I'd be between 19 & 20' if shelf mounted off the back wall.

lovingdvd - This will be my first projection setup so I'm just going off of what I've read on this site. Given we will watch TV and movies from the screen I figured we'd fall atleast above the recommended ftl for movies - which is above 12 ftl from what I understand. We will have excellent light control in the room with no windows and dark walls & ceiling. I have two directional down lights right over the seating I was wanting to use in a "dim" mode for the occasional college football game and when the wife wants to read while I'm watching something. Wish there was a way to get an understanding what 9 ftl looks like prior to biting the bullet.

My situation is very much like yours: my first pj, and will use it for hdtv as well as dvd's in my non-ideal room (~no external light, but light-colored surfaces). And since I'm coming from an rptv (a 73" Mits 1080p dlp) I don't want to be disappointed by a dim pic. So I'm going with Tryg's recommendation of ~ 30 ftL with a new lamp (which will fall to half that after several hundred hrs): a 126"D Dalite HP, and in 'normal' (low) lamp mode: 525 lumens (conservative figure) x 2.8 gain/47 ft^2 =/~ 31 ftL.

"Projector Central - 1x to 1.97 ..."

The RS1 throw ratio goes from 1.4:1 to 2.8:1

lovingdvd - This will be my first projection setup so I'm just going off of what I've read on this site. Given we will watch TV and movies from the screen I figured we'd fall atleast above the recommended ftl for movies - which is above 12 ftl from what I understand. We will have excellent light control in the room with no windows and dark walls & ceiling. I have two directional down lights right over the seating I was wanting to use in a "dim" mode for the occasional college football game and when the wife wants to read while I'm watching something. Wish there was a way to get an understanding what 9 ftl looks like prior to biting the bullet.

Yea I know what you mean. Brightness is something you just have to get a feel for based on first hand experience and the luxury of instrumentation to KNOW what you are seeing.

I would have never thought I could be happy with 8ftL. So imagine my surprise when I found my "punchy" Ruby was putting out a bit less than that. This taught me an important lesson. That being said I would not AIM for 8ftL. But it is tolerable in my book as a level to accept with an aged bulb. I would not want to recommend that to anyone because its very subjective to personal tastes. There have been others that have said here too they were very surprised at how bright 7-8ftL looks in their theater. And some (AVS member Mark Halfich I believe) said, if I recall correctly, that he gets 4-5ftL with his CRT set up and finds it enjoyable.

Bottom line is that there is really no way to tell. It looks like within the next few days we'll have a much better idea of what lumens to expect from the RS1 at various throws so we can revisit this.

Right now if it was me I would probably lean to the first diagram and 1.3 gain, keeping in mind that my next pj would likely be even brighter (so thinking ahead about the future upgradability of my HT). And of course, you can always move to the back row as things dim after a few hundred hours. :D

I don't see much downside to the HP vs the Carada 1.4 as your worst case numbers put a viewer at 1.3 gain for the HP versus 1.4 for the Carada. In every other scenario the HP is brighter. I've had an Hp for almost 4 years and it's superior in brightness with a minimum of artifacts and rejects ambiant light very well. Also the cost of a high power pull down with CSR is still so low relative to the cost of all your other components that it's worth the gamble for it's potential upside. It's a no brainer to me. If you don't like it then toss it or resell it. The hits people take on projector upgrades far surpasses the loss of a bad high power purchase given the relatively low cost of a manual screen.

Yea I know what you mean. Brightness is something you just have to get a feel for based on first hand experience and the luxury of instrumentation to KNOW what you are seeing.

I would have never thought I could be happy with 8ftL. So imagine my surprise when I found my "punchy" Ruby was putting out a bit less than that. This taught me an important lesson. That being said I would not AIM for 8ftL. But it is tolerable in my book as a level to accept with an aged bulb. I would not want to recommend that to anyone because its very subjective to personal tastes. There have been others that have said here too they were very surprised at how bright 7-8ftL looks in their theater. And some (AVS member Mark Halfich I believe) said, if I recall correctly, that he gets 4-5ftL with his CRT set up and finds it enjoyable.

Bottom line is that there is really no way to tell. It looks like within the next few days we'll have a much better idea of what lumens to expect from the RS1 at various throws so we can revisit this.

Right now if it was me I would probably lean to the first diagram and 1.3 gain, keeping in mind that my next pj would likely be even brighter (so thinking ahead about the future upgradability of my HT). And of course, you can always move to the back row as things dim after a few hundred hours. :D

I bought a CA813 a few weeks ago and was similarly shocked to find I am getting 8ftL off my 96 diag Firehawk + Sim2 HT300 E link. I thought it was bright enough but now that I know the numbers, of course, it is starting to look dark to me(!)

I've been getting some PMs about what light meter I use and "how-tos". Fortunately I have this all covered in detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755705

I've been getting some PMs about what light meter I use and "how-tos". Fortunately I have this all covered in detail here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755705

Yes, it was exactly this thread that enabled me to finally measure my setup. Thank you *SO* much for taking the time to do this. It is invaluable.

Yes, it was exactly this thread that enabled me to finally measure my setup. Thank you *SO* much for taking the time to do this. It is invaluable.

You are welcome - my pleasure :)

. Based on the ftl calculator with the RS1 starting with 600 calibrated lumens - I'd be at 18.8 ftl on a new bulb and 9.4 ftl at half life. I sure would like to find a way to push that half life up close to 16 ftl if possible. The wife and I will use this as our primary TV watching area so the PJ will have high usage and I'm afraid bulb replacements will be a little too often.

Do you know of any other ~2 gain screens other than the HP or the SS?
700 calibrated lumens at short throw as per Cine4home's last comments.

700 calibrated lumens at short throw as per Cine4home's last comments.

Unfortunately, I will be closer to max throw rather than short throw from what I understand.

what will being at max throw knock the lumens down to?

If like some of the other pj's, can we assume lumens at max throw will down near 500?

I am not sure of the exact possibilities from your sketch, but if it will be possible to sit directly under any part of teh projector shelf, you need to make sure that it will not be possible for someone to hit the back of their head on the projector shelf as they sit down.

4'-7" sounds fairly high, but if the shelf depth is too great, I think it might be an issue, even at that height. In your diagram, the shelf depth looks to be about two feet.

I am not sure, but that might be one of those situations where everything looks clear, but people really might bump their head while sitting down.

Just something you might want to look into a little more closely, if you haven't considered it.

Best Regards,
Doug

what will being at max throw knock the lumens down to?

If like some of the other pj's, can we assume lumens at max throw will down near 500?

Roughly estimated and based on cine4home's PRELIMINARY recent measurements, its shaping up to be around 436 lumens at MAX throw with NORMAL lamp, and 585 lumens at MAX throw with HIGH lamp. This information should give you a ballpark idea for now but we'll have more more accurate and specific data later this week after cine4home publishes some numbers.

Well, I think I've gone full circle on my quest for a screen. I've spent the better part of the day reading through Tryg's older High Gain Screen review and after much consideration it appears the SilverStar is the best fit for my room. I can ceiling mount the PJ and get the most from my bulb life. I've ordered a sample from Vutec and will try and confirm when things get closer. My only concern is that my primary viewing row will be 1.4x screen width - and most of Tryg's review said you want to sit farther away than this. Granted, this was prior to HD-DVD and RS1's contrast ratio so I'm wondering if this guidance still applies with newer source material and higher contrast PJ's. Thoughts?

"My only concern is that my primary viewing row will be 1.4x screen width - and most of Tryg's review said you want to sit farther away than this."

Is this referring to SS artifacts? SW are relevant for the projected image, but I'd think that here it's absolute distance that matters.

Say guys, I've been juggling my room around and realize that I can in fact fit in a 133" diag HP screen, viewing from ~ 12.5 ft away (and my wife can be at 13.5 ft!) This is ~ 1.3 SW viewing distance, and assuming 575 lumens in low lamp mode, would be give ~ 31 ftL with a new lamp (since I will be mounting the RS1 about 1.5 ft above and behind our heads). Sound reasonable? This is my first FP, and I'm wanting (1) not to wish after 6 months that I had not gotten a larger screen, and (2) to have a pic bright enough for HDTV, as well as dvd's. Any benefit of your experience would be helpful.

Just received confirmation from Tryg in another thread that the 1.4x screen width should not be a problem for my setup and the SS. This will allow me to run in low lamp mode and put some serious mileage on the PJ before having to consider a bulb replacement. The new HT doesn't get done until late March but I will post my findings once I get it all together - I'm thinking it's going to be the best combo for my needs and setup.

Just received confirmation from Tryg in another thread that the 1.4x screen width should not be a problem for my setup and the SS. This will allow me to run in low lamp mode and put some serious mileage on the PJ before having to consider a bulb replacement. The new HT doesn't get done until late March but I will post my findings once I get it all together - I'm thinking it's going to be the best combo for my needs and setup.

Look forward to hearing your report.

Noah has told you Hp will do it and that that should be enough since your angles will be betterthan his.
The savings in dollars are huge between SS and HP and others you have mentioned and would buy plenty of lamps at no cost to you.So the lumen bogeyman goes away,again.

"The savings in dollars are huge between SS and HP and others you have mentioned and would buy plenty of lamps at no cost to you."

Good point, and a lamp w/500 hr (pick your number) should also have some resale value to those who don't need all the lumens.

Makomachine,

My room is similar to yours, 23' deep and the pj is mounted on my 9' ceiling 18'4" from the screen and occasionally when sitting in the back row, during quiet passages in a movie I sometimes wish I had higher ceilings due to the fan noise/colorwheel whine/lightspill of my current pj. I honestly think you'll be much happier with the pj up on the ceiling where it's out of the way.

I know hot air rises but I'd be concerned with having a pj just above the heads of my guests pumping out all that heat. Then again, I do live in South Florida and the ac is currently running as I type this. ;)

If your willing to give up a little contrast, you could always mount the pj closer to the screen, maybe around 12'-14'. Aesthetically, it might not be that objectionable with your higher ceilings and would enable you to go with the Carada BW screen you previously were considering.

If you go with the SS, make sure you get the deluxe 3.25" black velvet border. It was only $150 extra on my 120" screen and is well worth the added cost. It will absolutely absorb any overscan, plus it has a very classy look to it and achieves a high WAF.

Millerwill,

You stated, "My situation is very much like yours: my first pj"


Are you saying that although you have over 4000 posts, (almost 1000 on the pj forums over the past 6 mths, many giving advice on projectors), but that you have never even owned a projector?

Are you a teacher or professor by chance.
If so, that would explain it.

Lamp life would probably need to be figured across not only this PJ but my next one as well. I probably won't upgrade until the next generation of PJ's come out with alternative LED/laser light sources - which I fully expect to be lumen challenged from the beginning. I expect the wife and I to put on 1200 hours a year or more given this is our primary viewing location. Given the high number of hours and my anticipation of owning a long life, low lumen PJ in my future - I'll have to consider this option carefully. I guess that starts with getting a quote for the SS so I see what I'm up against.

Millerwill,

You stated, "My situation is very much like yours: my first pj"


Are you saying that although you have over 4000 posts, (almost 1000 on the pj forums over the past 6 mths, many giving advice on projectors), but that you have never even owned a projector?

Are you a teacher or professor by chance.
If so, that would explain it.

Yes, crazy isn't it; but you should note that most of my posts are QUESTIONS! (And yes, you tagged me: I am a Chem Prof.)

Makomachine,

My room is similar to yours, 23' deep and the pj is mounted on my 9' ceiling 18'4" from the screen and occasionally when sitting in the back row, during quiet passages in a movie I sometimes wish I had higher ceilings due to the fan noise/colorwheel whine/lightspill of my current pj. I honestly think you'll be much happier with the pj up on the ceiling where it's out of the way.

I know hot air rises but I'd be concerned with having a pj just above the heads of my guests pumping out all that heat. Then again, I do live in South Florida and the ac is currently running as I type this. ;)

If your willing to give up a little contrast, you could always mount the pj closer to the screen, maybe around 12'-14'. Aesthetically, it might not be that objectionable with your higher ceilings and would enable you to go with the Carada BW screen you previously were considering.

If you go with the SS, make sure you get the deluxe 3.25" black velvet border. It was only $150 extra on my 120" screen and is well worth the added cost. It will absolutely absorb any overscan, plus it has a very classy look to it and achieves a high WAF.

smithfarmer - The wife nixed the shelf at the back of the room idea last night. Can't say I was fond of it anyway given my "hot nature" and the compromises it makes with people walking around the room. I've got 11' foot ceilings and I think we are sticking with a ceiling mount at this time. I appreciate everyone's feedback and will have to just weigh out the price vs. convenience vs. brightness considerations.

So do you have a SS? What are your thoughts on this screen with a high contrast PJ like the RS1?

So do you have a SS? What are your thoughts on this screen with a high contrast PJ like the RS1?
Right now it looks great with the 2000:1 CR from my 480P Infocus 4805 but I'll let you know how much better as soon as my RS1 get's here. ;)

Mako,

Can you put it behind the back wall? That's the least obtrusive way to do it.

Mako,

Can you put it behind the back wall? That's the least obtrusive way to do it.

Noah - Unfortunately, no. The back wall bumps right up to a main hallway. In hindsight, I wish I had gone bigger in our room size (no surprise there - seems it's a common issue) when planning our home design. I would have added another 6 feet in room length and another 4 feet in room width if I had it to do over again. This would have allowed for a little wider screen, better seperation from the rear wall for acoustic purposes, a way to integrate my PJ into the wall, etc.